Re: [Audyssey] Level 7 was Re: Need Help with Level 6 of Awesome Homer
Hi Kelly, The first two cars, which are side by side, just randomly move back and forth, left and right. Then, yes, the next car does purposely try to block you. So you need to at the last second swerve around it. Then with practice you judge when the next car is about to drop the oil. So you move out of the way, then pass the car. The next car with the bananas is really the same as the oil. Now the next car is the car with Gonk and Marge, so all you need to do is to pull up along side of it. HTH BFN Jim Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Level 7 was Re: Need Help with Level 6 of Awesome Homer
Hi Kelly, I forgot to say, if you run into too many cars, or don't keep the gas down, you then run out of fuel. Good luck. BFN Jim The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Level 7 was Re: Need Help with Level 6 of Awesome Homer
does anyone know how I have to set up this game in windows 8.1 64 bit. I can't seem to get them to extract. It says something like can't create output file. I don't think this would have anything to do with these computers not coming with win zip but I could be wrong. Thanks for any help On 12/31/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Kelly, I forgot to say, if you run into too many cars, or don't keep the gas down, you then run out of fuel. Good luck. BFN Jim The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online
Hi Amanda, Rowland was a well known game o the Amstrad computer system, but not really on much else. The Amstrad itself got rather overshaddowed by the far more well known zx spectrum and Comador 64. I have read that Roland on the ropes had versions released for both those systems under the name freddy, though I never got to play either at the time, and though i found a graphical internet remake of the freddy game it seemed to have rather a few errors and be somewhat clunky, also the person who made the remake decided to have the main character be a rather cartoony frog instead of a tomb explorer which was just weerd! Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Amanda Burt aburt...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online Hi Rowland on the Ropes sounds as if it could be a lot of fun,I haven't played it before. Amanda -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:10 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online Hi Dark: Yeah, I have heard the Power Joy was pretty decent. I don't own one myself, but it sounds like something I would certainly enjoy. As for Rowland on the Ropes it does sound like it could easily be made into an audio game. It sounds fairly simple to create, doesn't need a lot in the way of sounds, and I probably have the basic code written if I consider the work done for MOTA etc. In fact, I have strongly considered redoing MOTA exclusively as a side-scroller along the lines of something like this freeing up my Tomb Hunter series for the FPS genre. Cheers! On 12/29/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. Well the power joy, the one my dad owned wasn't too bad, it had the 30 or so games it played in a big long list so you just hit down, though I personally would've liked a little more highlighting. What I enjoyed about that console was as I said the chance to play several old nes titles such as Balloon fight, warp man and ice climbers, though later I got the ice climbers gba remake to play on my gamecube since I liked the game so much. Rowland on the ropes was a great game. I'm told it was released as freddy on other systems, where as the Amstrad cpc used the mascot for a games company, namely the titula rowland, but under whatever name it was an awsome game. Sadly I only found a rather badly done pc remake. The ghosts could be frightened away with the gun, so you weren't completely helpless, but where as it'd take one shot to shoot a mummy or a bat, several shots would be needed to get rid of a ghost. Usually the best way to deal with a ghost was run or climb in the opposite direction until the ghost got tired of chasing, or duck into a passage and let the ghost pass since they only traveled in one direction. The game also featured dropping acid, and rats that ran across ledges which you needed to traverse around. One very unique thing about the game is that you pretty much didn't really jump beside hopping on and off ropes, one reason why the rats were such a pain since you could only pass them by hopping of a rope in front of them then walking to the next rope and jumping on before they hit you. This is also why it'd be an easy one to do in audio, since you'd need no arcing jump controls or edge of ledge issues (all ledges had ropes), though you would need indicators of enemy movement in four possible directions, left and right along passages, or up and down the ropes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are
Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online
Well I hope you sort out your ropy code. While I can certainly imagine something like rowland as an audio game, I'm less certain what people wuld make of it, since it was very simplified from even the 8 and 16 bit era games which I got used to later and required a sort of different style of play and thinking. For example, you could only fire your gun when you were walking along a passage, and thus if you ran into an enemy while going up or down a rope you had a choice of either litting it hit you and go on, or running until you found a side passage to hop off the rope. Ghosts would usually head in just one direction (which was good since as I said they were unkillable), while other enemies would actively chase you, especially the bats on level 3 I remember particularly as being a pest. There were also rats running through some passages and the only way to avoid those was hop off the rope at the right time, walk along a passage and hop onto another rope before they hit, and acid dropping down the side of some ropes which you had to avoid by making sure you were facing the right way. I'm not sure if modern gamers used to fighting things would be into that sort of avoidance game, indeed I confess playing some of the real old school platformers like jet set willy, hunchback spiny the hedgehog or manic miner, (all of which have recieved some very faithful retro remakes that I have played), I relly! find them a strain even now since there you literally can't kill anything and everything is avoidance, indeed compared to the likes of the Willy games even original head stomping marrio looks pretty buff :D. Then again thinking about it, as I've said before judgement based gameplay requiring players to understand in game mechanics and objects and react accordingly rather than a boppit style instant reaction is just what those sorts of games had plenty of. Bewware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online
oh that's a shame smiles Amanda -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:49 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online Hi Amanda, Rowland was a well known game o the Amstrad computer system, but not really on much else. The Amstrad itself got rather overshaddowed by the far more well known zx spectrum and Comador 64. I have read that Roland on the ropes had versions released for both those systems under the name freddy, though I never got to play either at the time, and though i found a graphical internet remake of the freddy game it seemed to have rather a few errors and be somewhat clunky, also the person who made the remake decided to have the main character be a rather cartoony frog instead of a tomb explorer which was just weerd! Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Amanda Burt aburt...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online Hi Rowland on the Ropes sounds as if it could be a lot of fun,I haven't played it before. Amanda -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:10 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online Hi Dark: Yeah, I have heard the Power Joy was pretty decent. I don't own one myself, but it sounds like something I would certainly enjoy. As for Rowland on the Ropes it does sound like it could easily be made into an audio game. It sounds fairly simple to create, doesn't need a lot in the way of sounds, and I probably have the basic code written if I consider the work done for MOTA etc. In fact, I have strongly considered redoing MOTA exclusively as a side-scroller along the lines of something like this freeing up my Tomb Hunter series for the FPS genre. Cheers! On 12/29/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. Well the power joy, the one my dad owned wasn't too bad, it had the 30 or so games it played in a big long list so you just hit down, though I personally would've liked a little more highlighting. What I enjoyed about that console was as I said the chance to play several old nes titles such as Balloon fight, warp man and ice climbers, though later I got the ice climbers gba remake to play on my gamecube since I liked the game so much. Rowland on the ropes was a great game. I'm told it was released as freddy on other systems, where as the Amstrad cpc used the mascot for a games company, namely the titula rowland, but under whatever name it was an awsome game. Sadly I only found a rather badly done pc remake. The ghosts could be frightened away with the gun, so you weren't completely helpless, but where as it'd take one shot to shoot a mummy or a bat, several shots would be needed to get rid of a ghost. Usually the best way to deal with a ghost was run or climb in the opposite direction until the ghost got tired of chasing, or duck into a passage and let the ghost pass since they only traveled in one direction. The game also featured dropping acid, and rats that ran across ledges which you needed to traverse around. One very unique thing about the game is that you pretty much didn't really jump beside hopping on and off ropes, one reason why the rats were such a pain since you could only pass them by hopping of a rope in front of them then walking to the next rope and jumping on before they hit you. This is also why it'd be an easy one to do in audio, since you'd need no arcing jump controls or edge of ledge issues (all ledges had ropes), though you would need indicators of enemy movement in four possible directions, left and right along passages, or up and down the ropes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Internet Archive puts classic games online
Hi Tom. It's a shame it's come to this sort of situation in the first place and I'm sorry you ran into that kind of thing, though I'm slightly surprised in your game resources you don't have some sort of index or other proof. i have a document for example, originally created in 2001 and added to which is an index of all my games with cheats sections copied from gamefaqs. I started doing this originally because back in the early 2000's, we didn't have a wireless internet network at my parents and thus if I wanted to look up the cheats for a game, I couldn't just go online and do it. It's also a helpful index of what I have as well which is useful, though these days the document is so huge it takes ages to load :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Darren. Game editers for 2D maps are fine, howeve rht eproblem with minecraft is that what is done is essntially closer to painting or building abstractly, rather like using virtual lego bricks in a 3D space. While i can quite imagine some sort of 2D sim building game, that sort of visual, virtual control of objects in space is just not something I can imagine having access too, not at least without some major changes in technology anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind. Hi Tom, Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't any game world regardless of game no more than a map? Assuming that is the case, could we not just have like a map editor in the game? Four example you can have various selections. You would choose, whether you would have a 10 x 10 grid orate 100 x 100 great. Then you would choose various terrain types. Good something along those lines not work? Sent from my iPhone On 30 Dec 2013, at 16:38, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Michael: No, so far as I know there is nothing accessible remotely close to Mindcraft. Besides I'm not sure how one would go about making a game like that accessible given that it is highly visual. One aspect of the game is constructing your own worlds using textured cubes in a 3d procedurally generated environment. Meaning besides gathering resources, combat, etc a key component of the game is drawing your own game worlds and playing in them. I don't see how we could do that and make it accessible. Cheers! On 12/30/13, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Hello. I have notice that everybody that I know is playing this very popular game call MindCraft. I would like to give this game a play, but sadly enough I am not able because I am blind. So I am wondering if there is an accessible version of the game, or a game simular to it? Thanks! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Myself, before minecraft, which seems to be as much about visual appeal and artistic creation of structures as it is the sim resource gathering and civilization building, I'd rather see a serious colonization and civilization game such as dwarf fortress of the type we've been discussing on list for a while. Castaways and time of conflict both gave some ideas of how such a game might be designed, it's just now a question of a developer putting time and trouble into such a project. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation, was: MindCraft for the blind.
It's actually more complicated even than that. The notion of recreating in an audio medium games that are primarily visual is a tempting chimera that has, I feel, been one force behind the relative stagnation of the audio games world. The reasons for this make a lot of sense; people who grew up playing conventional video games are often more passionate than folk who never had that experience, which being so, makes the idea of recreating those games from the past seem more compelling than our actual experience shows that it is. In the following discussion, I'm intentionally ignoring the problems of expense and size of development shops we've typically seen, as well as markets. These factors are relevant to the general problem of game development, but not to the discussion I'm having below. Yes, I know about them and understand their effects on what we've seen, but they obscure what is for me a more basic problem. Before I wander off on what is to me a more interesting tangent, let me just suggest that Castaways is probably a better or at least more comparable game than Revelation for Mine Craft. Revelation is more like the mobile game Alchemy. So why do I call the recreation of visual games in an audio form a chimera? Because we haven't yet cracked the problem of how to convey visual information in an audio context. Consider the following: When a sighted person processes visual information, they are processing shape, relative size, lighting, color, motion, perspective, relative position and many other data over a time scale that is on the order of tenths to hundreds of a second. All this processing is parallel, through many different information channels if you will. Any of these data may be relevant to figuring out a situation, route planning, tactics choice or strategic considerations. Now compare this with sound. First of all, sound processing is slower physiologically, allowing for less parallelism in how our brains deal with sound sources. Localization is less precise than a visual person gets from locating an object with her eyes. The problem of determining distance to objects is more complex; there are more visual cues to distinguish large objects far away vs. small objects close at hand. There is no audio equivalent of horizon, perspective or shading that provide the visual clues to perform this simple but necessary task. There are some analogs, pitch could be used to convey color fairly directly as, at least for simple primary hues, frequency could correlate directly and one could use volume to correlate with either saturation or brightness. (Saturation refers to the color's intensity, brightness measures how much light is reflected or produced for an energy input.) But how do you convey the color teal, which is a very particular hue, a mixture of blue and green? I suppose you could mix wave lengths from the green and blue part of the spectra, but the result would be a pitchless (though not white) noise that might be very difficult to distinguish from say the burnt orange hue that would be mixing a lot of yellow with a bit of red and darkening the brightness and lowering the saturation value. And all this assumes you have a meaningful concept of color to work with. I have had sufficient vision in the past to be able to visualize these colors. Does this discussion hold any meaning for someone who never saw them? (an honest question; I do not have that experience, so can't comment from my own life.) As a very simple example; I have spent the last year trying to wrap my brain around the idea of how best to convey in an audio format the information available to a sighted player of Angband, Moria, Nethack or any other roguelike in a meaningful way. I worked for a short while with one of the actual variant developers for these games, trying to design a system that would convey the information about position, relative positions of enemies, walls and floor features such as traps. Note that this doesn't even begin to touch the complexity available to a sighted game developer for a Call of Duty sort of game. I still haven't found a way to convey even this much reduced information load to a player in a way that doesn't take impractical amounts of time to play a game of any meaningful length. This doesn't mean it can't be done. It doesn't even mean that I won't solve this problem at some point. What it does mean is that I, a pretty smart cookie and good at algorithm development, as well as a pen-and-paper game designer who has created quite playable original designs and hacks of pre-existing work, have not yet solved this problem, indicating that it's not a trivial problem to solve. The solution probably involves information compression; first of all figuring out what information is actually necessary to the experience of playing a rogue-like; whether the physical exploration aspect that we saw in Entombed is actually important enough to justify its cost in information complexity,
[Audyssey] Smugglers game question
Hi all. I play smugglers5 and I have a problem that I had in all version of this game. How we can travel for example between planets sistems. For example I have some missions to travel in to the new Germany or New Manchester but I can not understand how to travel to these destinations. Thanks. Any help would be apreciated. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Dark: Thanks for that explanation. I was trying to think of a way to convey the reason why a 2d map editor wouldn't work, and your's is the best way to put it. As you said the 3d cubes are a bit like using virtual legos to build a 3d world. You can drag and drop them where you want them with the mouse or game controller, and that is more like drawing or painting rather than using a map editor. The closest thing that would work for a game like this is something like the defunked Audio Games Maker where you would drag and drop game objects around on the grid and drop them where you want them. Accept with AGM it only dealt with a 2d world rather than a 3d FPS environment. Cheers! On 12/31/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. Game editers for 2D maps are fine, howeve rht eproblem with minecraft is that what is done is essntially closer to painting or building abstractly, rather like using virtual lego bricks in a 3D space. While i can quite imagine some sort of 2D sim building game, that sort of visual, virtual control of objects in space is just not something I can imagine having access too, not at least without some major changes in technology anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Dallas: That's definitely a good point. Since the majority of blind gamers are on fixed incomes like SSI, SSDI, and similar government disability incomes they don't want to spend a great deal of money on audio games. That's understandable, but it is also crippling when it comes to producing top notch games for the blind. Asking about $50 for a really good audio game isn't out of line considering the amount of work that goes into a game like Call of Duty or Minecraft not to mention the sounds, music, and voice acting is also fairly expensive too. The problem weather the game is worth that or not I am guessing most blind gamers won't pay it. They'd rather quibble about the price or will outright pirate the game because it is always easier to steel someone's hard work than it is to pay the developer what he or she is owed for producing that high quality game. What they don't realize or particularly consider is that if they truly want a Call of Duty game or something like Minecraft they are going to have to be willing to pay a bit more than they do now to have such a game created. Not just for the developer's time and energy, which would be considerable, but sound libraries, the game's musical score, and voice acting aren't cheap either. Some people might get by using volunteer work, but in my opinion that is sort of hit and miss and unreliable. Volunteer work for sounds, music, and voice acting is probably alright for a low budget game but for something truly professionally done it requires the hire end professional work done by experts who do that stuff for a living. However, if the money isn't in it from the community then a developer isn't going to go that extra mile to use top notch quality sounds, music, and acting which is really a disservice to the game. Cheers! On 12/31/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: hi. it's not only that Thomas, the question has to be begged. how much are people willing to pay for such games? i mean, if they think they are cheap in the sighted world, think again. call of duty, every time a new one comes out, is like, 50 bucks. or more. lol. so i mean, at the least, you'd have to charge 50 to 100 for such a game, to even begin to pay yourself back for all the work you do alone. now personally, if you were to make such a game, like minecraft, or something similar, or perhaps call of duty, i'd lay down 50 bucks for it. no problems. as long as it's high quality, and has huge replayability, i'd go for it for sure. but most people in the blind community won't pay that much. hell, they quibble over 10 bucks for a game on iOS. lol. so what do you imagine they'd do if you suddenly came out with, oh, i have a new game guys. .. by the way, that'll be 50 dollars, please. lol. they'd shy away from that to be sure. so from that point of view alone, let alone the facter of much fewer, gamers in the audio games community to create for, puts a damper on major game creation. not that i am saying don't do such a thing, but i can see where it's hard for you guys. you have to live, after all. that tends to cost money, and lots of it. specially these days. lol. Dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
HI Thomas and all; Let me just present once again and ad infinitum actually, ;) the example of Audio Quake. There is a level design language associated with AQ which allows blind and visually impaired players to design / create their own maps which can then be used in the game. Since the game can be played by sighted players as they are used to playing it as well as blind players in an accessible format, the idea that there is accessible and inaccessible and never the twain shall meet is one which has its days numbered in my admittedly hopeful view. :) Thanks and super happy new year to you all! Smiles, Cara :). --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all: I find myself in full agreement with Dennis on this issue. Minecraft is an FPS game, but the way it is designed it would take a massive rewrite to make it accessible and by doing so it would largely change the game for everyone involved. This is a case where someone would be better off taking away the relevant concepts and writing their own game rather than trying to make Minecraft itself accessible. Cheers! On 12/30/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Charles, There is no effective way to make minecraft blind accessible without changing the game into something entirely different. A good way to think about it is to compare swamp to the original unreal tournament; they are both FPS games, but that is where the similarity ends. There is no way whatsoever for a visually impaired person to be competitive in UT, and no way to change it to make it so without destroying the game. Don't bug the developer. You'd be better off grabbing the relevant concepts and trying to make a new game from the ground up. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Thomas, the Audio Quake level design I mentioned earlier is accomplished with an XML parser so it is platform independent. Yes, this type of access may be out of the 'norm' of a mainstream game for the moment, but it is definitely doable. Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 30, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles: Makes sense. Although, perhaps you should have checked Wikipedia or something about the game before suggesting Michael contact the developers as Minecraft is a fairly complex game and while I think a game similar to it in concept can be made accessible I know of no effective way to make the actual game itself accessible. Especially, considering it has been ported to many different platforms from Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, and the XBox to name a few. With greater cross-platform support the more difficult it is to add accessibility because the access for each platform is different and ranges from very good to absolutely none. Cheers! On 12/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I think the fault was mine. I think that, usually, when you come across a game that is not playable by blind people, your first step would be to contact the developer, explain the problem, and maybe give suggestions on the solution. Michael has asked questions on the list that had very simple solutions if he had looked just a bit farther, or that he would have been able to resolve by applying the obvious first steps. I saw his post about this game, and it was just like all of the others. No details are given about what his problem is. I had not heard of the game, and he said nothing about it other than the fact that a blind person cannot play it and he wants to. I sent my post based on the fact that he probably had not done the obvious before asking list members. That was my mistake. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation, was: MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Chris. This was an interesting discussion to read, and I agree in part, it is trivially true that if all human sensoary input or even the approximation of those senses were equally functional via sound as opposed to vision, blindness would be not be a disability. However, I disagree that attempting to represent information and game concepts is a chimera or a less than crytical attempt, simply because there is far more to games than just the graphics. Player interaction, apprehention of game factors, construction of explorable environments etc. I myself have been fully able (and still am aable), to play a number of visual games with if not quite the same ease as a sighted person (especially as regards text), at least with enough to success to appreciate what aspects of those games made them unique. Other genres such as fps have been closed to me. When I started playing audio games with shades of doom, what convinced me that the idea of games via sound was a worth while exercise was the fact that shades, for all it might not be up to the same level of information or play speed as a sighted game, had the same factors which made a game like original doom a good example of the fps genre. Exploration, atmosphere, compelling story, and semi tactical combat. I would myself suggest it is these elements and how the inofrmation processing qualities of sound can be made to enhance these elements which should be the focus of game developers when creating an audio version of a visual game, hence the clock and map elements in castaways, the overview and the ned to play reactively which ultimately matter far more to the stratogy game than whether you see everything on the map, have an obscuring fog of war etc. So, before developing audio mine craft, before even deciding how to represent information the question should be what is valuable in the experience of mine craft and how should this be bought to an audio game To take your roguelike example, I've been able to myself play Angband (and some varients there of), through a combination of big viewable tyles and readable text with supernova. Yes, I agree that despite a huge range of factors presenting the information inherent in angband, everything about each level to a blind player would not produce something which was easy to play. However then we have kerkerkruip. Though thus far a shorter roguelike, (far shorter than kerkerkruip), Kerkerkruip replicates random monsters, tactical combat against multiple enemies, one time character death, and many other staples of a roguelike but in the utterly accessible medium of a text game. In the same way, Entombed in it's original concept was not merely turn based combat but was planned to have as much of the environmental traps, chests, even food as a game like angband (sadly these got lost in developement though if jason ever makes an Entombed Ii we might see them). This is the sort of question I'd personally ask of developers. As regards uses of sound, welll to be honest I'd myself argue this is already being done by games like Papasangre, where the atmosphere and challenge is directly related to sound, indeed when i showed a sighted friend of mine who is a huge doom series fan Shades he stated Shades was if anything harder and more terrifying than graphical doom because! of the lack of sound and, the need to imagine the appearence of monsters and rely on what were to my sighted friend unfamiliar senses. So, this is in some sense already being done. I personally would not be as much a fan of games written expressly about blind super heroes or blind martial artists, but that objection is more cultural than anything else since it smacks of elitism, and also can produce somewhat condescending sounding games. I also do confess Che martin's rail racer, set in a day of the trifids style future where most of the world's population is blind so cyber motor racing happens on rail tracks made me very much rethink my view on games which show an exclusively blind experience, since Rr is a really well put together and awsome game with great mechanics which preserves everything good a racing game should! have but utilizes the blindness exploration of the plot to allow the need for sound kews for the action. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Smugglers game question
Hi. Firstly you will need a ship with jump engines, and the fighter you start with doesn't have them so you'll need to save up enough for a corvet. Once you have a corvet you can use the wormholes to travel between systems, just click twice on them to travel to the wormhole, then click again to go to the next system. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bogdan Muresan bogdanmures...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 6:57 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Smugglers game question Hi all. I play smugglers5 and I have a problem that I had in all version of this game. How we can travel for example between planets sistems. For example I have some missions to travel in to the new Germany or New Manchester but I can not understand how to travel to these destinations. Thanks. Any help would be apreciated. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Happy new year
well it's just turned midnight, so from me a happy new year to everyone on list and I hope people have a great 2014. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Happy new year
Hi, same here Dark, and happy newyear to everyone. -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 12:13 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Happy new year well it's just turned midnight, so from me a happy new year to everyone on list and I hope people have a great 2014. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Kara. audio quake is a great example of what can be done, however one thing that struck me about the game when I played it is that access would only work in specifically designed maps. I did deathmatch with some bots and tried your starwars mod, however when I tried to play the main quake game I found it wasn't possible with the access tools. This might have been me I don't know. So, while I perfectly agree with you that holding a black and white scale of accessibility is a bad idea, at the same time there do seem to be limitations even when very successful access tools are created for a game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Swamp was Re: new version of swamp
hi. In terms of sticks, yes, most sticks will work for most things. It's just that aircraft simulators require particular functions that aren't on standard sticks. I payed about 90 bucks for mine. So you don't have to go super expensive. And it has vibration in it. Rather cool feeling the stick jolt every time you get shot. LOL. Look for a stick that has a throttle lever, or throttle switch. The lever type is what I have, and it's very cool. Lets you have quite fine control over the engines. I could not tell you to get one type or another, as there are so many types. I'd guess that most you will see, are probably logitech, or some other major gaming device maker. But if you go in to almost any electronics shops, or gaming shops, and ask to see Flight sticks, they will know what you are talking about. Ask to get a feel of them, and see how it feels in your hand. That's rather important, especially if you're going to be using it for long periods. Also, like i said, look for something that has the ability for the stick to not only tilt, but twist as well. As the twisting action controls your rudder. Hope this helps you look for a good one. Most flight sticks should work, it's just a matter of what feels good for you, and of course, the cost. But most average sticks shouldn't be much more then a hundred. Dallas On 30/12/2013, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Hmmm what is the best stick for me. I can sertainly get myself a stick, that can handle flight but will it handle other games that use sticks, I can't have a selection of sticks for flight, racing, and general stuff. Also I won't be able to have the stick on the desk all the time unless it has a compact base or can be stored easily. I would obviously need it to be 64 bit compatible for my 64 bit win7 system I'd be happy to pay a couple hundred for it but no more. Force feedback or some sort of rumble pack would be good though I have heard you don't get the prosision with a ffb stick but not sure. At 11:53 AM 12/30/2013, you wrote: note, a game pad / XBox controller may not work. i tried using my game pad, but it won't work right, as it's not a flight controller. in other words, it has no throttle, no rudder control, and so on. so your best bet would be to get a flight stick. Dallas On 27/12/2013, Shaun Everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Thats another thing I have not got used to. wireless hardware means batteries. Batteries mean I may turn on and find things do not work meaning I have to change them and I have always had issues changing power cells. i have only just got used to the semi touch keyboard membrane in my win7/8 hybrid laptop, I am still a fan of wired devices but I have never needed to move round much. One thing I must say is that I am trying to think of a good joystick to get for 3d verlosity, I can't keep one on my desk, so its going to have to be a game pad. I was thinking of using an xbox 360 or xbox 1 controler but to be honest, Unless I find a way to fit a joystick on my desk I am just not sure. At 12:08 p.m. 27/12/2013, you wrote: yeh had to buy a wireless mouse On 12/26/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: hi. yes. but keep in mind, that if you have one of those clickpads, like i do, where there are no buttons, it just clicks down to click the mouse, ... it won't work so well. because you can't walk and shoot at the same time. dallas On 27/12/2013, loriduncan lori_dunca...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, yes you can play Swamp with a trackpad, what you do is use your right mouse button to walk forward, and your left mouse button to fire your weapon. When doing very small turns, you run your finger gentley accross the pad from left to right to turn right, and right to left to turn left. If you try it out in the safe zone you should hear the sounds moving around through your headphones. From Lori. -Original Message- From: Lindsay Cowell Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 7:39 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Swamp was Re: new version of swamp Hi All. I want to start playing swamp. Is it possible to play it with a laptop trackpad, and any tips for how to do this, and what I need to configure? It's a shame you can't play swamp using a keyboard. Lindsay Cowell -original message- Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new version of swamp From: ryan chou ryan.chou1...@gmail.com Date: 26/12/2013 7:22 pm if you want to survive with the axe, there is a way of doing it there's a certain way to backpetal while swinging so that you can keep hitting the zombie, but it can't hit you it requires a lot of timing, but its doable another option for you is resetting and putting points in to speed and sneaking to max both, then putting points in to the glock and possibly health and armor or get enough rep to buy yourself a
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Well there are exchane rates and the like to. I'd pay 200 for a game if I knew it would be good quality. Most games are 30 or so bucks unless its a pack. There have been a few acceptions ofcause. entombed and tdv being really large games actually are worth a lot more but even so. In the shops prices do drop as games get older, etc. I am not going to suggest we should drop our prices, but to be honest blind games really have not bar a few had really good replay value. Even shades of doom for me after I played it several times I only do every so often. And for a lot of games you get used to how things will be. Even in the games I am helping with even with the real sound engine that is used you do know where things are. Stuff like entombed or tdv well there is a lot of random things to. At 08:21 p.m. 31/12/2013, you wrote: hi. it's not only that Thomas, the question has to be begged. how much are people willing to pay for such games? i mean, if they think they are cheap in the sighted world, think again. call of duty, every time a new one comes out, is like, 50 bucks. or more. lol. so i mean, at the least, you'd have to charge 50 to 100 for such a game, to even begin to pay yourself back for all the work you do alone. now personally, if you were to make such a game, like minecraft, or something similar, or perhaps call of duty, i'd lay down 50 bucks for it. no problems. as long as it's high quality, and has huge replayability, i'd go for it for sure. but most people in the blind community won't pay that much. hell, they quibble over 10 bucks for a game on iOS. lol. so what do you imagine they'd do if you suddenly came out with, oh, i have a new game guys. .. by the way, that'll be 50 dollars, please. lol. they'd shy away from that to be sure. so from that point of view alone, let alone the facter of much fewer, gamers in the audio games community to create for, puts a damper on major game creation. not that i am saying don't do such a thing, but i can see where it's hard for you guys. you have to live, after all. that tends to cost money, and lots of it. specially these days. lol. Dallas On 31/12/2013, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike: I think the principle problem is time. A game of any serious complexity takes time that people either don't have to begin with, or they could spend that time working on two or three smaller projects instead of one very complex one. I'm sure I have the skills to write something like Minecraft, Call of Duty, etc, but I simply don't have the time right now to put in to a game of that complexity. I'd say that there are plenty of other audio game developers that similarly are unable to do anything that complex do to time constraints as well. I know when I started USA Games I had all kinds of game ideas of doing something like the mainstream. Basically, converting all of my favorite mainstream games into audio games. The reality is that while it is a nice idea I don't have all day every day to spend working on those ideas, to work on programming said games, and that is what it might take to bring some very complex audio games into existence. Plus the reality is that even if I did spend a couple of years slaving to create such a game I wouldn't make much money off of it. I'd be better off creating an actual video game and selling it to the general market than slaving for the audio games community. Cheers! On 12/30/13, Mike Reiser mikereise...@gmail.com wrote: Hopefully someone will consider making a game like that. I personally am tired of the usual stuff we get, and would like to see some out-of-the-box thinking. For example, I really want to see a call of duty type of game. Or something like Rise son of Rome. I'm not saying that it's easy of course, as I know nothing of development. I just would like to see us catch up with the mainstream in terms of game titles. And game types. Another example I think would be a game similar to something called world of tanks. I saw a commercial for that's this weekend, and really wish I could play. Mike --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or
Re: [Audyssey] Level 7 was Re: Need Help with Level 6 of Awesome Homer
you will have to run each of them as admin. At 11:33 p.m. 31/12/2013, you wrote: does anyone know how I have to set up this game in windows 8.1 64 bit. I can't seem to get them to extract. It says something like can't create output file. I don't think this would have anything to do with these computers not coming with win zip but I could be wrong. Thanks for any help On 12/31/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Kelly, I forgot to say, if you run into too many cars, or don't keep the gas down, you then run out of fuel. Good luck. BFN Jim The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Shaun: Well, you might be willing to pay $200 for a good game, but I am certainly not willing to spend that on a game. Any audio game regardless of the replay value. I suspect many other audio gamers would not either. However, as to the issue of cost you are right that many audio games are $30or less. However, that is actually much cheaper than a lot of mainstream games sell for. Just recently I was looking for some new games for my son's Wii U, and a lot of them were up around $40 or more. So we should consider ourselves lucky that Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, and Time of Conflict which are almost mainstream quality aren't as expensive as your average PC or console game. Cheers! On 12/31/13, Shaun Everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Well there are exchane rates and the like to. I'd pay 200 for a game if I knew it would be good quality. Most games are 30 or so bucks unless its a pack. There have been a few acceptions ofcause. entombed and tdv being really large games actually are worth a lot more but even so. In the shops prices do drop as games get older, etc. I am not going to suggest we should drop our prices, but to be honest blind games really have not bar a few had really good replay value. Even shades of doom for me after I played it several times I only do every so often. And for a lot of games you get used to how things will be. Even in the games I am helping with even with the real sound engine that is used you do know where things are. Stuff like entombed or tdv well there is a lot of random things to. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Cara: Yeah, I am aware of the xml parser you speak of. I've looked at the Audio Quake source and design in the past. Although, that is a bit of a different idea as to how Minecraft works which is really my point earlier on in the thread. Minecraft has a number of 3d cubes, think of them as virtual Lego blocks, that you can drag and drop on the screen with the joystick and mouse to build stuff. There presently is not any accessible way to do something like this in audio that I know of as it is more like drawing rather than coding. Does that make sense? Discussing level editors, parsers, etc are all good ideas. All possibilities, but not the same thing in concept as to how Minecraft actually works which is the issue here. Cheers! On 12/31/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Hi Thomas, the Audio Quake level design I mentioned earlier is accomplished with an XML parser so it is platform independent. Yes, this type of access may be out of the 'norm' of a mainstream game for the moment, but it is definitely doable. Smiles, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Smugglers game question
Well I have had several issues when traveling to the sun that doesn't always happen though I was able to troubleshoot that with neils and he reacons it should be fixed. You need to target then travel twice to the wormhole at the end of each system, then find the plannet you need to be at once in that system. I usually will pick up any items as I go, treasure, derelict space ships, etc. The only time I don't do this is if i have a boarded ship or I am in a loosing war campaigne and need to finnish something quick. At 07:57 a.m. 1/01/2014, you wrote: Hi all. I play smugglers5 and I have a problem that I had in all version of this game. How we can travel for example between planets sistems. For example I have some missions to travel in to the new Germany or New Manchester but I can not understand how to travel to these destinations. Thanks. Any help would be apreciated. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Cara: I have a lot of respect for Audio Quake, and the work you and others have done on it, but I feel as though you are comparing apples to oranges and calling them equal. Yes, I am aware that there is a level design language in Audio Quake that allows a V.I. gamer to design his or her own levels, but that is a totally different concept than the one Minecraft uses which is really the issue here. In Minecraft, as I understand it, it doesn't have a level editor, level design language, or anything like that. Instead you are presented with 3d cubes, world objects, which you drag around and build mountains, trees, rivers, etc. the issue here is that I am not sure that we, as blind users, can have a tool equal to that where we drag and drop level building blocks around the screen with the mouse, resize them, fit them together, etc the way a sighted user does. Yeah, we might be able to replace that functionality with a parser, a design language, but already you are adding complexity to something that is fairly simple for a sighted gamer to do with his/her mouse or joystick just by pointing and clicking. Does that make sense? I guess the issue here has less to do with accessibility than practicality. There is now doubt you or I could create a game with a level parser, a map editor, where someone codes the levels by hand, but can we make a tool that works exactly as well as the graphical tools where people drag and drop world objects with the mouse and can resize them etc by clicking on them? Cheers! On 12/31/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: HI Thomas and all; Let me just present once again and ad infinitum actually, ;) the example of Audio Quake. There is a level design language associated with AQ which allows blind and visually impaired players to design / create their own maps which can then be used in the game. Since the game can be played by sighted players as they are used to playing it as well as blind players in an accessible format, the idea that there is accessible and inaccessible and never the twain shall meet is one which has its days numbered in my admittedly hopeful view. :) Thanks and super happy new year to you all! Smiles, Cara :). --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Happy new year
Hi Dark: Same to you. Have a happy new year. We in the USA are still stuck in 2013 right now. Only a few more hours and 2013 will be a memory for us as well. On 12/31/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: well it's just turned midnight, so from me a happy new year to everyone on list and I hope people have a great 2014. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Happy new year
Have a happy New Year, but I will not beware the Grue! Never never never ever! Live dangerously. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 6:13 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Happy new year well it's just turned midnight, so from me a happy new year to everyone on list and I hope people have a great 2014. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation, was: MindCraft for the blind.
Good response, exactly the sort of push back I wanted to get from my strong premise. I wasn't aware of Chee's premise; interesting and it makes sense given the nature of the game. I would agree with you that we should be seeking the actual heart of a given genre of games rather than seeking to specifically copy a particular game's features. But there is a large and vocal subset of our community that remembers playing video games and/or has found work-arounds to play these games without vision who advocate the creation of audio translations of these experiences, rather than seeking to extract the central part of playing those games, i.e. forcing the player to make particular choices at a particular time scale that have effects on the game world. There have been times when I would have thought, based on the list and other for a that we wanted our developers to recreate Call of Duty, rather than finding the choices and time scale at the heart of that game and creating something that preserves those factors while working with the UI limitations that we have. I wanted to point out the limitations of that view. It's true that we've seen some beginnings along these lines. Aprone has put forward games that represent experimental forays into the FPS and resource allocation sort of games with Swamp and Castaways. Time of Conflict is also headed this direction to some extent and provides some neat concepts for managing massive amounts of information that make larger military simulations possible. We have the beginnings of good vehicle combat games in GMA Tank Commander, Lone Wolf and I suppose 3D Velocity, though that one never caught my interest, even though I have actually flown aircraft and would love a good pilot sim. I'd like to see efforts of this sort continue, with an emphasis on solving the problems of conveying the experience abstraction rather than fussing over details of making this or that game conform more to a mainstream paradigm. For the reasons I discussed, I do think that seeking to replicate the visual detail in an audio form has limitations imposed by physiology. Now, I think it entirely possible that one could create an artificial audio environment that translated visual cues into some kind of audio symbology that, given sufficient training, one could learn to use in ways much more akin to vision than normal representational hearing, and perhaps that's a path to follow in game development, as well as orientation, mobility or other tasks currently closed to those with nonfunctional vision. I certainly don't have the cognitive science, hardware engineering or marketing chops to bring such devices or systems to a marketable product, but I'd surely love to be in on designing a sound scheme and experimenting to see how far one could take it. But I digress, as I suspect that most people wouldn't be willing to spend tens or hundreds of hours rewiring their brains to process audio in a more visual fashion, especially for a game. I'm hoping some game devs will chime in here. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 6:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation, was: MindCraft for the blind. Hi Chris. This was an interesting discussion to read, and I agree in part, it is trivially true that if all human sensoary input or even the approximation of those senses were equally functional via sound as opposed to vision, blindness would be not be a disability. However, I disagree that attempting to represent information and game concepts is a chimera or a less than crytical attempt, simply because there is far more to games than just the graphics. Player interaction, apprehention of game factors, construction of explorable environments etc. I myself have been fully able (and still am aable), to play a number of visual games with if not quite the same ease as a sighted person (especially as regards text), at least with enough to success to appreciate what aspects of those games made them unique. Other genres such as fps have been closed to me. When I started playing audio games with shades of doom, what convinced me that the idea of games via sound was a worth while exercise was the fact that shades, for all it might not be up to the same level of information or play speed as a sighted game, had the same factors which made a game like original doom a good example of the fps genre. Exploration, atmosphere, compelling story, and semi tactical combat. I would myself suggest it is these elements and how the inofrmation processing qualities of sound can be made to enhance these elements which should be the focus of game developers when creating an audio version of a visual game, hence the clock and map elements in castaways, the overview and the ned to play reactively which ultimately matter far more to the stratogy game
Re: [Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation, was: MindCraft for the blind.
One thing that attracted me to Montezuma's Revenge, originally begun by James North, was the hope of playing what sighted gamers had played, in an audio version. It didn't work out as originally planned, but I'm still glad that Thomas Ward took over the project. Some people wouldn't want audioized, is that a word?, renditions of games for the sighted, but I would like them. The main roadblock, or at least one of them, is copyright. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Christopher Bartlett atouchofrevere...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation,was: MindCraft for the blind. Good response, exactly the sort of push back I wanted to get from my strong premise. I wasn't aware of Chee's premise; interesting and it makes sense given the nature of the game. I would agree with you that we should be seeking the actual heart of a given genre of games rather than seeking to specifically copy a particular game's features. But there is a large and vocal subset of our community that remembers playing video games and/or has found work-arounds to play these games without vision who advocate the creation of audio translations of these experiences, rather than seeking to extract the central part of playing those games, i.e. forcing the player to make particular choices at a particular time scale that have effects on the game world. There have been times when I would have thought, based on the list and other for a that we wanted our developers to recreate Call of Duty, rather than finding the choices and time scale at the heart of that game and creating something that preserves those factors while working with the UI limitations that we have. I wanted to point out the limitations of that view. It's true that we've seen some beginnings along these lines. Aprone has put forward games that represent experimental forays into the FPS and resource allocation sort of games with Swamp and Castaways. Time of Conflict is also headed this direction to some extent and provides some neat concepts for managing massive amounts of information that make larger military simulations possible. We have the beginnings of good vehicle combat games in GMA Tank Commander, Lone Wolf and I suppose 3D Velocity, though that one never caught my interest, even though I have actually flown aircraft and would love a good pilot sim. I'd like to see efforts of this sort continue, with an emphasis on solving the problems of conveying the experience abstraction rather than fussing over details of making this or that game conform more to a mainstream paradigm. For the reasons I discussed, I do think that seeking to replicate the visual detail in an audio form has limitations imposed by physiology. Now, I think it entirely possible that one could create an artificial audio environment that translated visual cues into some kind of audio symbology that, given sufficient training, one could learn to use in ways much more akin to vision than normal representational hearing, and perhaps that's a path to follow in game development, as well as orientation, mobility or other tasks currently closed to those with nonfunctional vision. I certainly don't have the cognitive science, hardware engineering or marketing chops to bring such devices or systems to a marketable product, but I'd surely love to be in on designing a sound scheme and experimenting to see how far one could take it. But I digress, as I suspect that most people wouldn't be willing to spend tens or hundreds of hours rewiring their brains to process audio in a more visual fashion, especially for a game. I'm hoping some game devs will chime in here. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 6:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The red herring of visual game recreation, was: MindCraft for the blind. Hi Chris. This was an interesting discussion to read, and I agree in part, it is trivially true that if all human sensoary input or even the approximation of those senses were equally functional via sound as opposed to vision, blindness would be not be a disability. However, I disagree that attempting to represent information and game concepts is a chimera or a less than crytical attempt, simply because there is far more to games than just the graphics. Player interaction, apprehention of game factors, construction of explorable environments etc. I myself have been fully able (and still am aable), to play a number of visual games with if not quite the same ease as a sighted person (especially as regards text), at least with enough to success to appreciate what aspects of those games made them
