On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:26:32 -0500 Richard Yao wrote:
> On 02/17/2016 02:01 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:18:46 -0500 Rich Freeman wrote:
> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The failure message comes from rc-mount.sh when the list of PIDs
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:06:29 -0700
Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> >
> > Well, maybe it's because you can talk to Python team, discuss and not
> > get ignored by them.
>
> We've already established the same is true for the games team. I'm a livi
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 12:05:33PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
> I have a bug that points out a significant issue with
> /etc/init.d/mount-ro in OpenRC.
>
> Apparently, there are issues that cause it to not work properly for file
> systems which happen to be pre-mounted from an initramfs [1].
I'll
On 02/17/2016 02:01 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:18:46 -0500 Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
>>>
>>> The failure message comes from rc-mount.sh when the list of PIDs using a
>>> mountpoint includes "$$" which is shell shorthand f
On 02/17/2016 01:32 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>
>> Genkernel's initramfs generation was what we endorsed for the most
>> part, until dracut came around. it's hard to say what "most" are
>> doing but i expect dracut and genkernel based init
On 02/17/2016 12:19 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>> Systemd installs that go back into the initramfs at shutdown are rare
>> because there is a
>> hook for the initramfs to tell systemd that it should re-exec it and very
>> few configurations
>> d
On 02/17/2016 01:47 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>>
>> This is something that I think many of us who had systems broken by
>> sys-fs/udev multiple times before sys-fs/eudev was an option thought was
>> obvious.
>
> About the only "system-breaking"
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> Well, maybe it's because you can talk to Python team, discuss and not
> get ignored by them.
We've already established the same is true for the games team. I'm a living
example of it and I can't imagine I'm the only one.
> Unlike games
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On 02/17/2016 04:43 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> If Lennart's single statement from 2014 is a reason to use eudev
> instead of systemd-udevd, my statement from today is a more
> important reason not to use eudev.
>
That's kind of a fal
Michał Górny schrieb:
systemd and udev share the same codebase. You can no longer build udev
without systemd. udev is only a sub-project of systemd now, hence the
name "systemd-udevd".
Of course, sure. But since you seem not to be able to understand
basics: this *does not* mean Lennart is the o
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On 02/17/2016 09:30 AM, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:19:52 -0500 Rich Freeman
> wrote:
>
>> Is dracut still not widely used? I know that it was all the
>> fashion for a decade or two for every distro to build their own
>> initra
Dear all,
while we have taken a lot of time and called for feedback repeatedly, in the
December 2015 meeting the council has decided (among other things, see [1])
* that /usr/games and /etc/games should not be used anymore
* that games.eclass should not be used anymore
* that games.eclass may n
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> 1) NFS v4 shares can't be unmounted if server is unreachable (even
> with -f). If filesystem (e.g. /home or /) contains such unmounted
> mount points, it can't be unmounted as well, because it is still in
> use. This happens quite often if
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:18:46 -0500 Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> >
> > The failure message comes from rc-mount.sh when the list of PIDs using a
> > mountpoint includes "$$" which is shell shorthand for self. How can the
> > current shell claim to be
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>
> This is something that I think many of us who had systems broken by
> sys-fs/udev multiple times before sys-fs/eudev was an option thought was
> obvious.
About the only "system-breaking" change I'm aware of in udev over the
years was the ch
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 11:08:30 -0700
Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> > I was stating the apparent state of facts. If people are told they're
> > supposed to go with games team, use their eclass, follow their
> > policies, that's how it looks to pe
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>
> Genkernel's initramfs generation was what we endorsed for the most
> part, until dracut came around. it's hard to say what "most" are
> doing but i expect dracut and genkernel based initramfs's make up
> the vast majority in use by gent
On 02/17/2016 11:16 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:05 +0100
> Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
>
>> Michał Górny schrieb:
With the exception that Lennart Poettering is the lead developer of
systemd/udev, while such a thing cannot be said about you and eudev.
>>
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> I was stating the apparent state of facts. If people are told they're
> supposed to go with games team, use their eclass, follow their
> policies, that's how it looks to people.
That's an entirely different point from the one I was making.
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On 17/02/16 12:30 PM, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:19:52 -0500 Rich Freeman
> wrote:
>
>> Is dracut still not widely used? I know that it was all the
>> fashion for a decade or two for every distro to build their own
>> initramf
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:19:24 -0700
Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 08:32:53 -0700
> > Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> > > Not true. I've been maintaining games for a decade and have never been
> > on
> > > the team.
> >
>
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:19:52 -0500
Rich Freeman wrote:
> Is dracut still not widely used? I know that it was all the fashion
> for a decade or two for every distro to build their own initramfs, but
> I don't get why anybody wouldn't just make the switch - it is far more
> capable and configurabl
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 08:32:53 -0700
> Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> > Not true. I've been maintaining games for a decade and have never been
> on
> > the team.
>
> Quoting the previous documentation of games.eclass [...]
>
I'm not seeing the conn
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
> Systemd installs that go back into the initramfs at shutdown are rare because
> there is a
> hook for the initramfs to tell systemd that it should re-exec it and very few
> configurations
> do that. Even fewer that do it actually need it.
Wh
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 08:32:53 -0700
Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:39 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> > games team sole claim to games in gentoo.
> >
>
> Not true. I've been maintaining games for a decade and have never been on
> the team.
Quoting the previous documentation of
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:05 +0100
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> Michał Górny schrieb:
> >> With the exception that Lennart Poettering is the lead developer of
> >> systemd/udev, while such a thing cannot be said about you and eudev.
> > He's lead developer of *systemd*. udev is a split
On 02/17/2016 09:54 AM, brettrse...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Kohler
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 08:01:32
> To:
> Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/ude
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:39 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> developers who did what they cared about and ignored everything and
> everyone else.
>
I don't know if I'm an exception to the rule, but I've always had fruitful
interactions with the games team. I never felt they ignored me.
> games team
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-Original Message-
From: Ben Kohler
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 08:01:32
To:
Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/udev provider
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 9:41 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>
>
>> On Feb 17, 2016, at 9:01 AM, Ben Kohler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> eudev has every commit scrutinized by people who care about using it on
>>> Gentoo. systemd-udev does not
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 9:01 AM, Ben Kohler wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>>
>>
>> eudev has every commit scrutinized by people who care about using it on
>> Gentoo. systemd-udev does not. Consequently, eudev has avoided the system
>> boot breaking regr
> On Feb 16, 2016, at 9:20 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> William Hubbs posted on Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:41:29 -0600 as excerpted:
>
>> What I'm trying to figure out is, what to do about re-mounting file
>> systems read-only.
>>
>> How does systemd do this? I didn't find an equivale
Hi,
currently BOINC supposed to be maintained by the science team, but we
are not really carrying about it. Is there anyone around whole likes to
take this over?
Thanks for your help,
Justin
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> On Feb 16, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
>>
>> The failure message comes from rc-mount.sh when the list of PIDs using a
>> mountpoint includes "$$" which is shell shorthand for self. How can the
>> current shell claim to be u
> On Feb 16, 2016, at 1:41 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 01:22:13PM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:05 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>
>>> The reason it exists is very vague to me; I think it has something to do
>>> with claims of data loss in the
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>
>
> eudev has every commit scrutinized by people who care about using it on
> Gentoo. systemd-udev does not. Consequently, eudev has avoided the system
> boot breaking regressions that prompted its creation. That is a good reason
> to make it
> On Feb 16, 2016, at 1:05 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I have a bug that points out a significant issue with
> /etc/init.d/mount-ro in OpenRC.
>
> Apparently, there are issues that cause it to not work properly for file
> systems which happen to be pre-mounted from an initramfs [1].
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Ben Kohler wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea why we are even discussing the choice of default for
>> virtual/udev to have subdiscussions about kdbus. Practically everyone on the
>> list thinks eudev is th
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Richard Yao wrote:
>
>
> I have no idea why we are even discussing the choice of default for
> virtual/udev to have subdiscussions about kdbus. Practically everyone on
> the list thinks eudev is the best choice.
>
I think a lot of us appreciate that eudev exists a
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Initial shutdown is via two targets (as opposed to specific services),
Since not everybody in this thread may be familiar with systemd, I'll
just add a quick definition.
When systemd says "target" - think "virtual service."
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:00:27 -0500
> Richard Yao wrote:
>
>>> On 02/08/2016 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile
>> wrote:
what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo develope
On 17/02/16 13:38, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> Michał Górny schrieb:
>>> With the exception that Lennart Poettering is the lead developer of
>>> systemd/udev, while such a thing cannot be said about you and eudev.
>> He's lead developer of *systemd*. udev is a split part of systemd
>> cod
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:53:22 -0500
> Richard Yao wrote:
>
>>> On Feb 17, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:41:33 +0100
>>> Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
>>>
Alexis Ballier schrieb:
>>
Michał Górny schrieb:
With the exception that Lennart Poettering is the lead developer of
systemd/udev, while such a thing cannot be said about you and eudev.
He's lead developer of *systemd*. udev is a split part of systemd
codebase which has specific maintainers.
systemd and udev share the s
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:09:57 +0100
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> Michał Górny schrieb:
> >> In a follow-up, upstream wrote about how you should only run udev together
> >> with systemd, and if you don't want to do that (spelling as in original):
> >>
> >> "we will not support the udev-on-
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 1:37 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 21:54:31 -0500
> Richard Yao wrote:
>
>>> On 02/08/2016 07:46 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:08:22 +0100
>>> Patrick Lauer wrote:
>>>
Ohey,
I've opened a bug at:
https://bugs.ge
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 5:34 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> Dnia 17 lutego 2016 05:00:27 CET, Richard Yao napisał(a):
>>> On 02/08/2016 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile
>> wrote:
what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo developer but
Michał Górny schrieb:
In a follow-up, upstream wrote about how you should only run udev together
with systemd, and if you don't want to do that (spelling as in original):
"we will not support the udev-on-netlink case anymore. I see three options:
a) fork things, b) live with systemd, c) if hate
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:58:51 +0100
Michał Górny wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:53:22 -0500
> Richard Yao wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 17, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Michał Górny
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:41:33 +0100
> > > Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> > >
> > >> Alexis Ba
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 7:25 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 11:00 PM, Richard Yao wrote:
>>
>> If userbase is what matters to you, then OpenRC+eudev won. It is the
>> logical choice for those concerned about userbase because that is what
>> the Linux ecosystem will be using
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:53:22 -0500
Richard Yao wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:41:33 +0100
> > Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> >
> >> Alexis Ballier schrieb:
> > If it's just that, it's not limited to udev, but anything
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:41:33 +0100
> Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
>
>> Alexis Ballier schrieb:
> If it's just that, it's not limited to udev, but anything using
> kdbus/bus1, and would mean openrc/${favorite init system} wil
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:41:33 +0100
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> Alexis Ballier schrieb:
> >>> If it's just that, it's not limited to udev, but anything using
> >>> kdbus/bus1, and would mean openrc/${favorite init system} will have
> >>> to do the same thing anyway. But again, almost 2 y
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 11:00 PM, Richard Yao wrote:
>
> If userbase is what matters to you, then OpenRC+eudev won. It is the
> logical choice for those concerned about userbase because that is what
> the Linux ecosystem will be using going forward.
>
Uh, if we cared solely about userbase we'd be
Dnia 17 lutego 2016 11:53:32 CET, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> napisał(a):
>Michał Górny posted on Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:47:06 +0100 as excerpted:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 22:48:08 -0600 Ryan Hill
>wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:35:12 +0100 Michał Górny
>>> wrote:
>>> > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016
On Mi, 2016-02-17 at 10:53 +, Duncan wrote:
> Michał Górny posted on Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:47:06 +0100 as excerpted:
>
> > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 22:48:08 -0600 Ryan Hill
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:35:12 +0100 Michał Górny > > g>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:37:41
Michał Górny posted on Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:47:06 +0100 as excerpted:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 22:48:08 -0600 Ryan Hill wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:35:12 +0100 Michał Górny
>> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:37:41 +0100 "Justin Lecher (jlec)"
>> > wrote:
>> > > On 15/02/16 13:59, Michał
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:00:27 -0500
Richard Yao wrote:
> On 02/08/2016 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile
> wrote:
> >>
> >> what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo developer but i also
> >> work on an upstream project (eudev) that 14 distros
Dnia 17 lutego 2016 08:52:31 CET, Michael Sterrett
napisał(a):
>On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Michał Górny
>wrote:
>
>> The games team was pretty much formed of two kinds of developers back
>then. One kind was retired developers, the other kind was developers
>who did what they cared about an
Daniel Campbell posted on Tue, 16 Feb 2016 22:30:45 -0800 as excerpted:
> IMO you're over-thinking it. I read it as "As you were, then", which is
> a common saying in the (American, at least) military advising one to
> keep doing what they're doing, or return to a resting position. :)
Yes. That'
Dnia 17 lutego 2016 05:00:27 CET, Richard Yao napisał(a):
>On 02/08/2016 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile
> wrote:
>>>
>>> what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo developer but i also
>work
>>> on an upstream project (eudev) that 14 distros use
Dnia 17 lutego 2016 09:17:37 CET, Patrick Lauer napisał(a):
>On 02/17/2016 07:37 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>>
> * Both udev and eudev have pretty much feature parity, so there
>won't be
> any user-visible changes
>
> * udev upstream strongly discourages standalone udev (without
>syst
On 16/02/16 19:05, William Hubbs wrote:
> All,
>
> I have a bug that points out a significant issue with
> /etc/init.d/mount-ro in OpenRC.
>
> Apparently, there are issues that cause it to not work properly for file
> systems which happen to be pre-mounted from an initramfs [1].
Who is using tha
On 02/17/2016 07:37 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
>
* Both udev and eudev have pretty much feature parity, so there won't be
any user-visible changes
* udev upstream strongly discourages standalone udev (without systemd)
since at least 2012
(see for example:
https:
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