Silicates vaporize in the atmosphere all the time: meteors. I don't
know whether the dust from meteors is any guide to the effects of jet-
exhaust silica, though.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
an affordable storage battery (think water/hydrogen fuel cell) we will be
able to reduce our dependence on carbon much more quickly.
david.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:09 AM, dsw_s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, my mistake on the distance from shore. But the things still seem
as though
I thought the main barrier to coal-to-liquid was that it requires a
lot of investment up front, which is then a losing deal if oil prices
don't stay above 60-90 dollars a barrel (depending whose estimates you
listen to, and what interest rate you assume on the initial outlay).
On Sep 23, 8:38
When you put drag on the wind, air flows down the pressure gradient.
So what about this idea: put drag on the wind a kilometer or so up,
around the fringes of a tropical depression. Air flows inward at that
altitude, and inhibits the rise of air from below, just inward from
where it's calm
Could an airfoil be attached to the top of a cantilevered float to
increase wave intensity? I see two applications. First, it could
increase wave intensity upwind of a wave-power system where wave
intensity was marginally low, essentially using waves as a
transmission system for wind power.
It sounds like a lot of energy to me. All those bonds contain energy,
that has to come from wind or solar. My guess is that a process for
producing carbon could cost less energy, since it contains only carbon-
carbon bonds which contain less energy and count twice (once for each
carbon).
An article in this month's Economist magazine talks about the
importance of oysters to estuarine water quality: oysters, it says,
are picky about what they eat but not about what they filter. They
filter all suspended particles, eat a little, and excrete the rest as
pellets that sink to the
Obviously OIF would be done in areas that are iron-limited, out in the
open ocean. The whole idea certainly depends on the feasibility of
growing something like mussels or oysters on structures floating in
the open ocean. Estuarine species requiring low salinity couldn't be
cultured there, but
I would expect the effects on circulation to matter. Cooling the
atmosphere in some locations and heating it in others is basically
what drives the whole circulation; changing that pattern of heating
and cooling would affect the pattern of circulation. Since the
effects we care about are mostly
I suspect that natural mixing processes exceed anything we can do
mechanically, by a couple orders of magnitude. But that's just a
guess. I suspect the way we can increase downward mixing of CO2
dissolved from air is by influencing large-scale weather patterns.
On Jan 13, 10:42 am, John Nissen
Aerosols from an eruption cool the climate briefly and then settle out
of the atmosphere, whereas greenhouse gases released by volcanism
persist longer. Ice sheets thick enough to affect volcanism take many
years to accumulate. So this sounds more likely to be a positive-
feedback effect to me.
I'm inclined to think that the best use of this type of intervention
would be to influence circulation by growing high- and low-albedo
varieties in different areas. After all, the global mean surface
temperature isn't really what matters: droughts, floods, storms, and
melting of the ice caps
A teleological, anthropomorphic description of a series of suicide
attempts seems just as silly as a teleological, anthropomorphic
description of a loving mother-goddess. In the range of possible
states of the system, there are regions of negative feedback and other
regions of positive feedback.
I don't get it. If they precipitate calcium carbonate, and then it
dissolves again, the overall effect is nothing, right? If the
carbonate sinks in between, they're removing calcium carbonate from
the surface water (and adding it to deeper water, where we presumably
don't care about it as
Yeah, right. The reason we talk so much about ocean acidification
around here is that we're part of a nefarious plot to make it worse.
What a doofus. (Of course, I was more polite than that in my comment
on the blog.)
On Jan 23, 10:26 am, John Nissen j...@cloudworld.co.uk wrote:
I have just
There are three possible ways of doing geoengineering: managing solar
radiation, removing greenhouse gases to unblock terrestrial radiation,
and managing transport of sensible and latent heat within the
atmosphere. As far as I can tell, I'm the only person in the entire
world who favors the
I think saving the arctic sea ice is a lost cause. Saving the
permafrost probably is too. We need to deal with the effects of
runaway global warming, not pin our hopes on stopping it. If that's
where we draw our Maginot Line, then we're still in the situation
where the least that might be
the risk of total extinction,
particularly if many species of animals and plants that humans depend on
will disappear.
Cheers!
Sam Carana
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 1:15 PM, dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com wrote:
We're apparently using the phrase runaway global warming
differently. As I understand
Sounds to me like good news: that what most of us here have already
been convinced of for some time, is getting some attention in the
mainstream. Emissions reduction won't do; we need geoengineering.
On Jan 27, 12:21 pm, John Nissen j...@cloudworld.co.uk wrote:
Thanks Alvia, for your posting.
I don't see anything in the link to say how fast the thawing of
permafrost will be. It says accelerating, but that only means it will
go faster than it has been. Permafrost left over the last glaciation
has been thawing for thousands of years, so when he says that the
thawing will be faster than
This is just a brainstorm idea: I have no idea whether it's
feasible.
Power plants release amounts of waste heat that exceed the amount of
energy they produce. At the rate the heat is produced, it mixes into
the surroundings with no dramatic effect. But if the heat from a long
period of
Compression ignition requires a suitable ratio of fuel to air. Even
if compression in a diesel engine perfectly removed methane from the
air, you're not going to process the atmosphere a few hundred cc at a
time. To remove methane from the air, I see two options: increase the
amount of hydroxyl
This is re attempt to promote pyrolysis of biomass: was that attempt
posted here? Do you have a link handy?
On Jan 27, 6:47 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@stanford.edu wrote:
James,
Everything unfortunately is a long uphill slog because everybody is very
busy and enamored with their own beliefs
of a heat exchanger, and I
already thought of that.
I covered the issue of hydroxl radical - it's created by ozone
photochemistry, so the best way to manipulate it seems to be by
delivering ozone to the stratosphere.
A
2009/1/28 dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com:
Compression ignition requires
Lenton and Vaughan first divide geoengineering proposals into two
sorts: shortwave and longwave.
What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we
know for sure, that just ain't so. For a long time, everyone knew
that the world was too big for us to affect in ways like global
It seems as though in vernacular plain English, it is. My inclination
would be to change the jargon to avoid confusing the public
unnecessarily. The deniers are doing plenty of that on their own.
On Jan 31, 10:42 am, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote:
We have discussed this before.
I don't like irreversible climate change. That would mean (if taken
at face value, in vernacular English) that we can't do anything to
reverse it, not just that it won't reverse itself spontaneously.
On Feb 2, 6:46 am, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote:
The concept, as applied to climate
One of the participants said that to sequester carbon by reacting it
with silicate rock such as peridotite, you need to either transport
the CO2 to the rock or transport the rock to the CO2 source, either of
which may cost an unacceptable amount of energy. That's not actually
true: CO2
The forcing from the sea ice albedo effect is of the order of 30 Watts per
square metre, so you expect this to drive regional warming.
I expect surprises. How does the total number of watts of forcing
compare with variability in heat fluxes into and out of the region?
What other feedbacks are
There is pretty good evidence based on past climate history that long term
temperature
changes occur monotonically on a scale of thousands of years but not for
shorter times
Really? I had thought the opposite, from badly-out-of-date
information. I think it was some series of measurements
My favorite potential interventions are to alter circulation so as to
increase vertical transport of latent heat, and to puff silicate rock
into stuff like expanded vermiculite to increase weathering to remove
CO2 from the atmosphere and increase soil retention of moisture. Both
could help with
I have in mind that a lot of the arctic sea ice is flushed out into
warmer waters, rather than melting locally. Could we put fields of
computer-controlled sails on top of the ice, to keep it in the arctic?
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because
How will snow cover on land be affected in coming years? As far as I
can see, the qualitative/naive guess is more snowfall and more
melting, with no way to tell which will dominate without an actual
model.
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Nissen j...@cloudworld.co.uk wrote:
I wonder whether Archer's
8. The old, evolving, weak-anthopic universe (serial pseudo-
multiverse)
What appear to us to be fixed laws and constants actually change,
and we're seeing a time that's conducive to our existence because
that's where we can be.
On Feb 12, 7:02 pm, John Nissen j...@cloudworld.co.uk wrote:
1a. The inevitably absurd universe
Life unimagined by us would be possible (and statistically inevitable)
in all (or almost all) possible universes. Furthermore, any universe
would look absurdly well-tuned to its inhabitants.
On Feb 12, 9:34 pm, dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com wrote:
8. The old
What timescale are you talking about?
To increase the salinity of surface waters in polar or subpolar
regions, I would expect that it would work better to do it indirectly
via increased evaporation, rather than directly by adding salt.
On Feb 22, 6:41 am, Andrew Lockley andrew.lock...@gmail.com
Multiple positive feedbacks doesn't necessarily mean multiple tipping
points.
On Feb 26, 11:51 am, Albert Kallio albert_kal...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Mark,
I just let you know that the number 2013 comes from Peter Wadhams. In January
2008 there were full front page news item bearing the
One of the links says they're using CO2 from burning natural gas at
their pilot project, so the difference can't be made up from stuff in
coal ash. It sounds to me as though it's acidifying the water and
using a lot of energy, but it doesn't really tell as far as I can
see. My guess is that
From NewScientist:
I think we are seeing the last gasps of ocean iron fertilisation as a carbon
storage strategy, says
Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution at Stanford University.
Earlier this month, the controversial Indian-German Lohafex expedition
fertilised 300 square
kilometres of
We need to do something about ocean acidification; the most
comprehensive term should include that.
On Mar 31, 5:26 pm, Kelly Wanser kelly.wan...@gmail.com wrote:
Ken Caldeira and others have begun to adopt the term Climate
Intervention as a non-technical term to describe large-scale, direct
I'll sign letter as it stands. I'll almost certainly be willing to
sign any revision that others here come to consensus on, too. I agree
that keeping it short is probably a good idea. Using the word
geoengineering has pros and cons. I slightly prefer the three-item
version over Tom's two-item
he refers to injecting reflective particles into low Earth orbit as
one of the most discussed geoengineering ideas. .. He says SRM would
be too expensive and would interfere with spacecraft.
I thought he said one of the classic ideas or something like that,
and then said only that that
That sounds a lot like how I imagine geoengineering can work. A
suggestion I've made is that materials like expanded vermiculite and
perlite (basically rock popcorn) could be used to increase water
retention in soil for both agricultural and climatic benefit. The
climate benefit includes CO2
Thanks. Here's what I posted:
The geoengineering concepts mentioned in the interview coverage are
out of date. If that provides any indication of Holdren's level of
interest in the concept, then the people who recoil in horror at the
thought of geoengineering can give a big sigh of relief --
The atmosphere is mostly troposphere, by mass. The troposphere is
also the grimiest part of the atmosphere, even relative to mass. The
contribution of stratospheric aerosols to interfering with
astronomical observation seems likely to be negligible -- as it
apparently was in the case of
Ecology
260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA
kcalde...@ciw.edu;
kcalde...@stanford.eduhttp://dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab
+1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 6:24 PM, dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't get the impression that the anti
I don't hear the distinction between ethics and values the same
way. For one thing, values is too closely associated with the
phrase family values with its bizarre connection between discount
children's meals and anti-gay bigotry. But even in normal usage, the
distinction doesn't cut between
Artificial trees are those things that people hang Christmas ornaments
on.
That article makes it sound as though the whole process doesn't really
cost any energy, just what it takes to run some water on the resin.
But that can't get any more CO2 into the water than would get there by
just
that's all you have to read.
Sadly,
d.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:49 PM, dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com wrote:
demonstrates a 6 to 8 times amplification of solar irradiance. For the
non-scientists, you can read a somewhat more understandable version by
Shaviv at :http://www.sciencebits.com
.
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 1:23 AM, dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com wrote:
I also want to forsake patents for perpetual motion machines, and
proofs that the square root of two really is rational after all.
They're suppressed by money-grubbing conspiracies too.
On Apr 17, 4:20 pm, David Schnare dwschn
To what extent do stratospheric aerosols cross the equator? I doubt
there's all that much concentrating solar power in the southern
hemisphere.
And who knows whether CSP will still have such an edge over PV by the
time we would get an aerosol program in place anyway.
Most of the CCN for
Speaking as someone who's generally willing to consider beyond-the-
horizon technologies (asteroid capture for example) I have to say I
see no way we could plausibly trigger an eruption. The sheer amount
of rock rules out simple removal, and likewise any in-situ
modification of the whole mass of
Having a mirror sit there doesn't seem more advanced than having life
support and equipment to do experiments with. Note also that part of
the reason launch costs are so high is that the payloads currently
worth launching are either people or very expensive one-of-a-kind high-
tech satellites,
The idea that deniers are promoting geoengineering is so loopy it's
hard to believe that anyone can say it with a straight face, let alone
believe it. Are there people out there who honestly believe it, or is
it just being pushed cynically? If the latter, who and why?
On Apr 27, 7:58 pm,
I haven't attempted any calculations, but my guess is that to put heat
into the ground we would have to spend a non-negligible amount of
energy pumping it there. And the amounts of heat involved in changing
the temperature of the atmosphere/ocean system are very large relative
to the amount of
As I've said in other postings here, I think there will be multiple
tools to use against hurricanes.
Nothing cools the ocean surface like a storm. So we'll start storms,
at places and times that aren't right for them to grow into
hurricanes, but still have them passing over part of the area
To cool the surface, warm the air at the level where the storm dumps
its heat, and affect wind patterns, we may suspend plastic sheets in
the upper troposphere. They could be held up by kites, balloons, or
fans blowing air from above the sheet to below it with energy beamed
to a rectenna on the
(Otherwise, you'd be calling CO2 itself a pollutant.)
EPA finds carbon dioxide is a pollutant
http://www.pulpandpapercanada.com/issues/ISArticle.asp?id=98967issue=04202009
On May 6, 11:57 am, xbenf...@aol.com wrote:
James:
The trouble with your pollution standard:
Putting clouds of
It's good to hear that there's some decent data, even if it isn't
particularly encouraging for OIF.
On May 7, 2:52 pm, DW dan.wha...@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/report-iron-fed-plankton-...
Report: Iron-Fed Plankton Slow to Remove CO2
Two Berkeley Lab
If aviation is a major source that should be reduced by flying less,
wouldn't that come out in a straightforward cap-and-trade system?
On May 8, 10:41 pm, Sam Carana sam.car...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree, John, that there should be fees on all greenhouse gas
emissions, but I especially focused
it is more economically sensible to tax where substitutes are readily
available.
If you're taxing to change behavior, yes. If you're taxing to raise
revenue without distorting markets, no. If we tax high-carbon
activities to fund mitigation in other areas, we're taxing for
revenue; if we
Droplet size may affect chemistry because of surface tension. At
sufficiently small scales, a high-curvature surface isn't the same
chemically as a lower-curvature surface.
My impression is that the Brewer Dobson circulation is the net
circulation after east-west wind is canceled out, since the
The idea of geoengineering being promoted by the fossil fuel industry
is mind-bogglingly stupid. But people will believe anything bad about
something they don't like.
On May 14, 4:52 pm, Ray Taylor r...@andy-taylor.org wrote:
Albert I didn't write the article.
I just thought it warranted a
I suspect that small, inconspicuous organisms will routinely be left
out of any such programs. Trees and macroscopic animals may be
transferred; nematodes and microscopic fungi won't be, at least not
intentionally.
On May 26, 10:05 am, Albert Kallio albert_kal...@hotmail.com wrote:
Back in
Actually, it's not just the amount of snow. It's also the timing.
Snow insulates, so to slow down the thawing, you would want to prevent
snowfall through the early winter and let the ground cool off as fast
as possible. Then you would want to have as much snow as possible in
the late winter and
The air that leaves the top of a hurricane is cold already, so it is not
sending much energy back into space.
What about radiation from cloud tops? I would expect cloud tops to
radiate much more readily than air at that altitude, both because of
being a condensed phase that can emit blackbody
MMC:
Air goes up at moist adiabatic rate, but has to be forced down at the
dry adiabatic rate
Of course. Thanks.
Does it follow that although the net effect of moist convection is to
transport heat upward, the actual circulation of air transports heat
downward whenever air is being forced to
: geoengineering@googlegroups.com
[mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alvia Gaskill
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:38 PM
To: mmacc...@comcast.net; dsw_s; Geoengineering
Subject: [geo] Re: Just in Time for Hurricane Season
Some more info about the effect of hurricanes or more generally
The ooze will be rich in nutrients and getting some of it into
suspension should help fish stocks.
Some, yes. But is there any guarantee that the right amount for water
flow wouldn't be enough to make dead zones?
On Jun 8, 5:02 am, Stephen Salter s.sal...@ed.ac.uk wrote:
Hi All
The most
It sounds in the video as though they're classifying ice as one-year
(survived one summer), two-year (survived two summers), and multi-year
(survived more than two summers). That terminology seems reasonable
if explained, but it makes for a somewhat misleading headline.
On Jun 9, 3:46 am, Veli
To have harmful wind speeds, a hurricane needs to have lots of angular
momentum. If some of the angular momentum could be dispersed to
farther from the center of the storm, wind speeds would be lower. If
I understand it right, a hurricane has air coming in from the
periphery at low altitude,
: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:
geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] De la part de dsw_s
Envoyé : mercredi 10 juin 2009 10:55
À : geoengineering
Objet : [geo] Re: Just in Time for Hurricane Season
To have harmful wind speeds, a hurricane needs to have lots of angular
momentum
.
On Jun 14, 4:01 pm, dsw_s ds...@yahoo.com wrote:
You need to get more creative...
Ok, shall we talk pie in the sky? Let's get a decent-sized mostly-
stony asteroid, say a few hundred cubic kilometers, into earth orbit
and drop chunks of it into the atmosphere, controlling the size
In yet still another aspect, not meant to be limiting, an exemplary
embodiment of thermally-enhanced ambient gases previously utilized in
the provision of patent-related legal services regarding the methods
herein referenced, could be released in at one surface region distant
from at least one
That connection between standard deviation and percentage of events
isn't a universal law. It's a feature of the normal distribution,
i.e. of distributions that are the sum of a large number of small
independent components. I see no reason to expect that to be the case
for sea ice extent or
The price of carbon emissions should be whatever is necessary to bring
them down to an acceptable level, not some token amount that
governments make up so as to look as though they're doing something.
Taxes can be complicated just as easily as a cap-and-trade system
can. Offsets can be just as
When the second google hit is Snopes ...
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/bakken.asp
On Jul 29, 8:07 am, Eugene I. Gordon euggor...@comcast.net wrote:
Nothing new here. Very difficult to extract. Americans (not the politicians)
have had it with the oil companies to some extent. The
This mostly sounds compatible with my opinions on the subject.
However, I have in mind that tropical storms close together tend to
merge into one larger cyclone.
I don't know whether any aspects of the proposal are new or not.
On Aug 3, 2:56 pm, Koldun victorkol...@gmail.com wrote:
Method of
The warehouses are also for superheroes to fight supervillains in.
Abandoned warehouse? You might as well ask for the Moon.
http://evil-comic.com/archive/20060419.html
On Aug 2, 8:17 pm, Alvia Gaskill agask...@nc.rr.com wrote:
This movie turned out to be a two parter, the second one tonight
Condensation nuclei are condensation nuclei.
Really? I thought they varied in size and in how hygroscopic they
are.
It seems, Wikipedia misses Mount Meru entirely,
No, the Mout Meru article has been there since May 2007.
I think we're going to have to actively manage global ocean
circulation as part of integrated management of climate.
Is the North Atlantic a better place to send the crud than the Arctic
Ocean?
On Aug 8, 8:52 am, Andrew Lockley andrew.lock...@gmail.com wrote:
My further shameless plagiarism
I wish I understood hurricanes and high-altitude winds well enough to
say whether wind shear is useful for hurricane mitigation. My crude
understanding suggests that it is, but I'm pretty sure I haven't
convinced anyone.
On Aug 9, 5:18 pm, Alvia Gaskill agask...@nc.rr.com wrote:
A little more
I think something would come along and eat it. Cast your bread upon
the waters and it will be fish food unless the birds get it first.
I don't think there's any problem with food-chain contamination of
birds and fish: this is stuff that people think is ok to eat.
However, there may be problems
Do stronger storms mix water deeper? (It seems obvious that they
would, but lots of things seem obvious and aren't true.) If so, it
would seem that having more weak storms would re-churn the same
thinner layer of water more often, transporting less heat toward the
poles than if fewer big storms
Consider that in the arctic, above 38 degrees north latitude, a
reduction of more than 1,134 Megawatts per square mile per day can be
achieved by replacing open seawater with a layer of snow-covered ice.
Megawatts per day?
On Aug 17, 9:45 pm, Eugene I. Gordon euggor...@comcast.net wrote:
Is Judicial Watch a right-wing loony bin, or do I have it confused
with a similar name?
On Aug 20, 9:35 am, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote:
For those who didn't get the memo, absolutely nothing you send to a
government employee (except confidentidal business information) is beyond
Here's an example where cap and trade would not work. However a
carbon tax, comprising a levy on fossil fuel (carbon out of the
ground), could help to pay for this carbon stock management type of
geoengineering
That makes no sense. If you can give carbon credits for something
when the tax rate
Wake me if ETC says anything worth listening to.
On Aug 29, 10:20 pm, global_frozing global_froz...@yahoo.com wrote:
the climate change treaty negotiations in Copenhagen, they will throw
precious time and dollars at sci-fi fantasies, overlook potentially
devastating side effects and divert
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