Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Tuomas Kuosmanen schrieb: For the deeper nested pages like http://www.gimp.org/the_gimp_system_reqs.html which are not as often linked I would recommend a redirect. We should have those most-often-needed pages there, as they are not going to collide with the new structure (I prefer directories too, makes stuff more simple to maintain) - The pages would just contain a template to this page is moved to [insert new url here], once there are no hits to them in the logs anymore, we can remove them. I changed my mind. Why should we remove them? We should integrate all the current links to fit to the new structure. Speak of: 2 links, one page. I dont think that this would be too hard to create such a system. And I think the best fallback thing to do is to have the 404 Document not found -page be a site map: This would be a huge improvement. But then... everythings better than a plain 404. :-)) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Tom Rathborne schrieb: So this really could have been a chicken and egg problem. Yes, it seemed very chicken and egg to me. That's why I just started doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will find _something_ useful in what I have done. Then please share your decisions you have done so far. Describe what language do you use, what layout, andsoon. We could then avoid making duplicate efforts. I will then put up a second list with done-so-fars and todos. Another thing that comes to my mind is i10n. When designing the content-enginge one should keep that in mind. We could have a documents in various languages on one page. The language would be selected by the browsers preferences. Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Andreas Jaekel schrieb: I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. I'll put that on the list. Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Michael Spunt schrieb: Yes, it seemed very chicken and egg to me. That's why I just started doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will find _something_ useful in what I have done. I tried some stuff ony my own, too. Maybe you would like to have a look at it: http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php Changing the navigation structure was the main goal here, so it differs from your effort. We could test various navigation structures without much design involved. That way we could then use the most appealing. I'm going to ask a graphic-designer, who is a friend of me, to help us with the design or layout. Perhaps we could have some input from a different viewpoint. (user vs. developer) Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Michael Spunt schrieb: * The new layout should not break the existing URLs. Many people have If a user requests a page not available on the server, he / she gets redirected to news, 404, we have changed or whatever from where he / she can navigate to the required page and realizes that it's time to update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. a please update your bookmarks page would be the best choice, IMHO. Maybe it could be interesting to have a look at the web sites of the companies selling similar products... You will see that all of them I fully agree at this point. Only that Gimp isn't a commercial product and needs some more comprehensive online documentation, external links, Maybe look at other free software projects websites? For example: The documentation section on http://www.php.net/ is a great example for functionality but perhaps a bit overcrowded. But I like the annotated documentation. Why not have something like that too? Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] New GIMP Webpage the 2nd
Hi all, I have updated my lists at http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/gimp_org/ It would be great if we could get all that uncertainty out of them. :-)) We must know what we want to have as the result and how to get there. Any comments? Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hello Miles! Miles O'Neal schrieb: In terms of layout, the gimp site is head and shoulders above the vast majority of sites out there now. right. I think if we have a redesign there should be a good reason for it. A fersh look is NOT important. Fresh content is far more important. Consistency is a *good* thing. With a well designed site we could use the with our software you are able to do that too-effect and attract more potential users to gimp. That may be worth it, or not? Marketers will tell you that you have to change the site to make it moer appealing,. [...deleted...] I wont go to marketeers. Shes a friend. :) It actually *annoys* people to go to a favorite site and suddenly have to hunt for things. Yeah. I had that experience 3 days ago... [...people love gimps navigation...] I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite the site in something less arcane and more known, now is the ideal time to revamp the look and feel. Let's just make sure it's worth the effort, and we don't lose things - like the top notch menu system, etc. Will add this to my lists. Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Kelly Martin schrieb: I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite the site in something less arcane and more known, now is the ideal time to revamp the look and feel. I hate it when sites change things. (My credit card company changes their online customer service system every couple of months and it drives me nuts.) There is nothing at all wrong with the current look and feel, and I see no reason at all to change it. Well, thats a different extreme. :-) Many sites have never changed since 1995. Some are changing too frequently. With gimp.org we have sort of the first one (even if its not THAT old). With a redesign in both content and structure we can be more flexible and add more things which are usefull to both new and old users. The current webpage organises all html-pages in the root-direcotry of the server. This is definitely NOT flexible enough. Example: http://www.gimp.org/download/ Result: 404 - not found The site-design neednt be redesigned from scratch. It may be enough to polish it up and remove the Gimp-standard-script-look, which was copied all over the web and today has a bit trashy touch. Definitely not a good representation for the greatest graphic program on earth. :-) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Nick Lamb schrieb: That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? You need not. gimp.org will happily redirect you to the page you wanted. Because you are a w1ck3d cool new webmaster? Of course. ;-)) Because you've decided that downloads go in foo/ and screenshots go in baz/ ? Because its easier to maintain. We have more possibilities to guide the user if we use directories. Please explain to me, a simple web user, why I need the URLs for info on the Gimp site to change. If there isn't a compelling reason for the USER then there's no reason at all, is there? go to http://www.gimp.org/download/ Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet schrieb: That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? You need not. gimp.org will happily redirect you to the page you wanted. Hmmm... This is better than nothing, but if would be nice if there could be some real pages (not redirects) at the following URLs, to which a number of other web sites (or user bookmarks) are pointing: downloads.html = /download/ and so on? different url, but same content. does that confuse the users? For the deeper nested pages like http://www.gimp.org/the_gimp_system_reqs.html which are not as often linked I would recommend a redirect. Because its easier to maintain. We have more possibilities to guide the user if we use directories. Yes. As long as there are not too many levels (deep hierarchy), this should be OK. But it would be nice if the most frequently visited pages could have a very short URL, like the ones listed above. Please explain to me, a simple web user, why I need the URLs for info on the Gimp site to change. If there isn't a compelling reason for the USER then there's no reason at all, is there? go to http://www.gimp.org/download/ OK, that directory does not exist and you get a 404 error (which could be replaced by a redirect to the correct page). But where did you find a link to it? The only links that I found are pointing to the page (not directory): http://www.gimp.org/download.html a user could by chance enter that url. wouldn't it be nice to guess what he wanted and present him with the page, or with a list of possible pages instead of a 404? Anyway, that did not answer Nick's question: why would the users have to change their bookmarks? Its up to the user what he does. Perhaps i'm a bit too acustomed to update your bookmarks pages We could of course link all the old pages to the new pages, so he wouldnt even notice. Or even redirect him without explaining, so he would end up on a different page then he entered. What would be better? I dont know. Example: Go to http://www.amazon.com/books/ and see where you are after page-load. Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet schrieb: The site-design neednt be redesigned from scratch. It may be enough to polish it up and remove the Gimp-standard-script-look, which was copied all over the web and today has a bit trashy touch. Definitely not a good representation for the greatest graphic program on earth. :-) Well, if it has been copied all over the web, this is probably a good sign... Well, of course, but it wears off... :-) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi all, having been a lurker to gimp-devel for 2 or 3 years now, I realised that the gimp-webpage is a very delicate topic. :-) So I gave myself a hand and wrote down a list of things I learned to give attention to, when creating big web-projects: http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/proposal_for_gimp_org.html I hope this list can be of some help and will be the topic of heated discussions. ;-) Aaand I hereby want to offer my help building the new page. thanks, Christoph --- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Sven Neumann schrieb: Is there a mailinglist for the gimp webpage yet? nope. But we can certainly set up one if the traffic on this list increases too much or the people that want to discuss this issue demand one. For the moment, I'd suggest we keep the discussion here. Please don't resist to discuss web-site details here until we have set up a mailing list. Do you think we need one now? We might. But not today. The discussion could go into technical stuff like how do we do this in php or something. The more important problem now is: Who is helping out? Who does the graphics, who the code? Where can we put the stuff? Many loose ends which still have to be closed. Maybe a public Call for volunteers would be of help. Has anybody made good/bad experiences with something like that? Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
