Re: [h-cost] how museums can help costumers
Then I think one of the most useful things a museum could do would be lots of photos and get some darned closeups. The pictures I looked at on the from the link you posted for the Smithsonian didn't have anything that wasn't full length - no details at all. OTOH, some pictures I've seen from the VA get so close I could chart the knit or beaded designs. I really appreciate that kind of information online since it's unlikely I'll ever get to go to the museum. I work for a museum. We have a grand total of 4 staff. We all wear so many hats we can't keep track of them all. Personally, I'm responsible for the collection, the exhibitions, all museum security, the desktop publishing, supervising student fellows and work-studies, managing the climate control system, the museum shop, and more. I'd LOVE to have that level of detail for everything in the collection even for our own purposes let alone for interested visitors, but it's neither a time nor financial possibility at the moment... Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Exhibitions and Collections Manager Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 Academic Way Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/moa *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes
Sigh. Must reconstruct my thoughts, stupid e-mail program erased my message when I hit send. I hate Microsoft. Assuming the patterning isn't a matter of artistic license, I think this is a combination of bias use of a woven stripe fabric, and piecework (constructing fabric out of contrasting strips). Painted fabric wouldn't hold up well. Piecework would have been in the craft vocabulary because of domestic textiles and repair work, as well as to fill in missing corners during garment construction (widening skirts, lengthening sleeves, etc.), If a tailor had striped fabric to work with, it isn't a stretch to see him play around with the patterns that so easily pop up when moving one piece of striped fabric around on top of another. Especially given the existing patterning in contemporary architecture, tiles, etc. Chevrons, here we come! My question is: how many of the striped garments depicted in the Codex are diagonals as opposed to verticals and horizontals? Would it be more expensive to be wasteful of cloth by using up a length of woven striped cloth on the bias, or to pay for the labor of building up a bias cloth out of scrap straight-grain contrasting strips? The people shown in the Codex are either of high rank, or are employed by someone of high rank who wants to show himself to best advantage (See? I can afford to dress my retainers this way.) If labor is cheap, I could see the noble in a bias-cut garment wasteful of cloth, and his retainers in piecework strip versions made of scraps. Certainly at the other end of the century the argument for constructed stripes is easier to make. For example, many of the frescoes at Runkelstein in Tyrol show people wearing graded stripes. One man's stripes, to judge by the scale of his body to his garment, are about 1 - 1.5 inches at his collar and get to be 6 - 8 inches (if not wider) at the hem of his floor-length houppelande. Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Words for clothes
When I explain to the lay public that I make conservation-grade mannequins for museums to display their costume collections, I usually say historic clothing collections because costume really does bring theater and Halloween to mind for most people and I find I have more explaining to do Astrida -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carol Kocian Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:40 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Words for clothes It's a funny thing, since the Costume Society of America says it's all costume, even what I'm wearing right now. :-) For many people, costume is for Halloween and theater, so most groups who have specialized clothing for other purposes will pick another term. Any word we choose can still be said with some disdain and eye-rolling. When it's asked respectfully (and I think most times it is), then I agree we can explain the differences without taking an offended posture. -Carol On Oct 12, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Chris Laning wrote: On Oct 12, 2010, at 6:02 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote: Now here is another interesting use of a word for one's clothing and accouterments. Had to look up exactly what regalia means--I have of course seen it to mean one's trappings, outfit, etc. Its origin, though, which makes sense if one thinks about it, is the rights and privileges belong to a monarch or ruler. I referred to myself as a costume historian to a War of 1812 reenactor, and he insisted his outfit is clothing, not costume. Yet, among square dancers, the preferred term for the matching outfits worn by everyone on the committee of a national square dance convention is costume. Clothing, apparel, attire, costume, regalia--I guess it is like one's own personal name--one should use the term the individual (or group) prefers. However, one shouldn't be offended if a poor soul uses the wrong term because one doesn't know what that group prefers! And in the Society for Creative Anachronism it's garb. When people are talking about their medieval clothes, they are sometimes garb, sometimes simply clothes -- very few people call them a costume (at least in my hearing), although someone who makes such medieval clothes is usually a costumer. I prefer clothes, as do many of the people I hang out with, but garb is handy as a one-word term for the clothes I wear to SCA events, as opposed to the clothes I wear on other days. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Preparing an exhibition of historical garments
I actually make archival mannequins for museum display. I don't know if I'm allowed to do what amounts to advertising here, so if you would like to know more, please write to me off-list. Anything you purchase as a ready made will have to be altered to fit the needs of your particular garments in any case, and whatever you decide, please don't use modern store mannequins-- not only are the sizes all wrong, so are the attitudes/positions! Astrida From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Aylwen Gardiner-Garden [aylwe...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Preparing an exhibition of historical garments The posts on dummies are reminding me to write this request. I am putting on an exhibition next year of 200-year old garments that are too small for the standard sized dummy/mannequin - I probably need ones the size of a thin 12-year old girl. Can you recommend anywhere online where I can purchase nice-looking foam dummies/mannequins for display of extant garments? I really want people to see the gowns in 3D instead of lying flat in boxes. I have purchased dummies in the past from http://www.tinnafashion.com but the shoulders and chests are too broad. Bye for now, Aylwen Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy http://www.earthlydelights.com.au Director, Jane Austen Festival Australia http://www.janeaustenfestival.com.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Preparing an exhibition of historical garments
Just a note-- most of the dummy suggestions given so far would be harmful to your 200 year old garments. Perfectly fine for short term display of modern stuff, but really not a good idea for clothing of historical merit. Please, please don't use them! I don't know how much you know about display, so please forgive me if I'm saying obvious things. And I'm not trying to stomp on anyone's suggestions or anything, but Ive been making museum-grade mannequins for over ten years and I've had to learn about this stuff! There's a lot to keep in mind and protecting your garment is as important as displaying it with the right silhouette, if not more so. Plastic forms from stores are likely questionable-- no idea what kind of plastic is involved, and are likely the wrong shape in any case and could have hard, sharp edges. Inflatable forms have sharp seams (bad) and would need padding out for protection. Duct tape is scary both because of the plastic that carries the adhesive and of course the adhesive itself. What you want are materials that won't outgas, like ethafoam (a kind of closed cell, carveable, chemically inert foam made by the company 3M). Styrofoam is actually safe but crumbly, you'd need to cover it in any case and it might not be structural enough. Urethane foams are a bad idea-- they outgas. You can use acid free mat board or museum grade plastic corrugated board to build up a form as well, again the key is acid-free and inert. No matter what rigid core you use for structural integrity and strength, your form will need to be padded so nothing rigid or sharp comes in contact with your textile, and you want padding materials that do not have starches in them (attract insects). Poly batting is good, so is needle-punched cotton. Polarfleece is great (use white though). You want to avoid nylon (polyester is safe), and anything that is dyed should be tested first to make sure dyes won't rub off on your historic garment. No matter what kind of dummy you wind up with, you a! lways want a barrier between the dummy and the garment, something like stockinette. And you want the dummy to be fully supportive of the specific shape of your garment yet just a teensy bit too small so that no seams get strained. You want to be absolutely sure that the shoulders are not too broad for the garment-- modern forms tend to have this flaw, modern store mannequins are made to our modern aesthetic, which is much more built up and sporty than historic clothes can handle. And exposed wood should be sealed to prevent outgassing of acids (don't use polyurethane, paint is safer). Hope that helps, Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] dress forms
Just be careful in museum settings-- they are not archivally sound, they outgas. Astrida From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Nordtorp-Madson, Michelle A. [manordto...@stthomas.edu] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:39 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress forms I could not agree more. They are very easy to alter for short-term or long-term use (or even weight gain/loss for personal sewing). I use them in the museum displays because I cannot afford of the period' mannequins. I recommend them. And when I have repadded or corsetted them, I slip a tight t-shirt or camisole over them for a smooth surface. On 5/28/10 12:31 PM, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote: For all the whining about the foam dummies, I'd just like to make clear that they are heads shoulders grin bettter than any other option. It's not hard to bob the exaggerated bits. It took only minutes to change excess boobage into protrusive shoulderblades. I cant stick pins in my plaster cast dummy. He was however, free, so I keep him. Foam squeezes just a little more to reshape just a smidge when you want to try a new style of corsetry. Plaster, paper tape dummies deform the underlying body you're trying to model. Dial-a dummies are just plain inadequate for most people. Really, there's no other sensible option: get a foam dummy. Pad her out with ace bandages, give her a boob-lift with a stocking full of birdseed, buy several covers and do one each for your corseted, bullet-bra natural shapes,. Sew her an arm for a sleeve form pin it to the cover when you need it. They last for years! --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com Posted by: foureverfaire foureverfa...@yahoo.com foureverfaire Thu May 27, 2010 12:38 pm (PDT) Though i don't have a dress form myself, i have frirends that do and i've heard others talk about having the same challenge of having to cut down parts of the Uniquely You Dress forms. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fabulous web site
Check out this incredible site for 360 degree close ups of these very detailed figures from Burgundy in the early 1400s: http://www.themourners.org/ For those of you close enough to NYC, the show is at the Met until May 23, though according to reviews you may well see more detail at this web page than if you go see the actual pieces (viewers can't get that close! (And yes, I was not only given permission to share the web address, but explicitly asked by representatives of the organizers to do so.) Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Exhibitions and Collections Manager Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 Academic Way Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/moa *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Brocade and Fair Use
I would also like to point out that no one ever said anything about copying the drawing to create the brocade-- the drawing is merely a visual aid to interpret images of the actual fabric! Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] civility
Fran, Your actions assume much and jump to great and unsubstantiated conclusions. You do greater harm by them. Every time I decide to see if your posts have gotten less poisonous and try to read them again, I see that they have not. This is a sadness, because clearly you have great knowledge. With regret, Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Custom Brocade
I'd love to know as well-- choices where I am are extremely limited! Astrida From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova [zkraemer...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:26 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Custom Brocade Hi, I hope I will not forget to remind you:-)) ___ Sartor...custom-made costumes www.sartor.cz --- On Thu, 5/13/10, Beteena Paradise bete...@mostlymedieval.com wrote: From: Beteena Paradise bete...@mostlymedieval.com Subject: [h-cost] Custom Brocade To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 12:18 AM Can you please update the list when the new online shop is ready? :) From: Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 11:02:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] h-costume Digest, Vol 9, Issue 144 Hi Donna, Usually the process of making a brocade takes 4 weeks from placing an order to receiving the item (assuming it were for a Czech customer...otherwise you have to add shipping time to your country). In this case, it will take perhaps longer as my sister who is in charge of this is currently in Spain and will be back to work in June. I suggest you take a look at our webpage through some translator (like http://translate.google.com/translate?js=yprev=_thl=csie=UTF-8layout=1eotf=1u=www.sartor.czsl=autotl=en ) We do have an English version of the webpage, but many information is still not translated. We'll have this fixed together with a new online shop in July/August). Zuzana ___ Sartor...custom-made costumes www.sartor.cz --- On Wed, 5/12/10, Donna Hawk dhaw...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Donna Hawk dhaw...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] h-costume Digest, Vol 9, Issue 144 To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 11:56 PM Doing my homework, I see that this is a recurring theme with Fran that happens several times a year, every year. It's obviously a sore spot for her and you're not going to change her mind, sway her in the least, nor get an apology. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/curmudgeon So, Zuzanna, just out of curiosity, what's the turnaround time on a custom brocade of a similar complexity to the Charles de Blois pourpoint? I'm really interested in hearing more about the process involved. Donna Hawk Sometimes people put up walls, not to keep others out, but to see who cares enough to break them down. --- On Wed, 5/12/10, h-costume-requ...@indra.com h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: From: h-costume-requ...@indra.com h-costume-requ...@indra.com Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 9, Issue 144 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 2:50 PM Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Becky Rautine) 2. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Hanna Zickermann) 3. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Lavolta Press) 4. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Zuzana Kraemerova) 5. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Lavolta Press) 6. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Zuzana Kraemerova) 7. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Lavolta Press) 8. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Zuzana Kraemerova) 9. Re: textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint (Lavolta Press) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Check out my photos on Facebook
This sounds like a phish attempt of some sort or otherwise account-hijacking event... I mean, Hi Historical Astrida From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Maggie [maggi...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:32 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Check out my photos on Facebook Vicky, are you trying to tell someone that H-Costume should have a Facebook presence? Or did you just invite your whole address book? MaggiRos Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 Available at your favorite online bookseller See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Vicky Coleen Simpson invite+zj4oa0os6...@facebookmail.cominvite%2bzj4oa0os6...@facebookmail.com wrote: Hi Historical, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Vicky To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=613334k=Z5D466TXVZTF6BD1QGX2TVR2PSIB424EUQDXBr ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Viking alternate history--14thC/15thC Vinland?
I've been wondering-- and maybe this is something that is obvious to others, just that I've not really focused on Viking or Russian clothing. I was looking at a Russian lacquer box showing a young woman and saw the lovely dress (sarafan?) she wore and it hit me-- that's a Viking apron dress! And I know the Rus were actually a Viking invasion, and that Russians are blonde because of the Vikings... Is the sarafan a relative of the apron dress?? Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Exhibitions and Collections Manager Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 Academic Way Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/moa *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Viking alternate history--14thC/15thC Vinland?
I thought current thinking is that the apron dress has sides as well. But not having the sarafan before 1600 would squash that theory... Thanks! Astrida From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Käthe Barrows [kay...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:50 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking alternate history--14thC/15thC Vinland? Is the sarafan a relative of the apron dress?? I don't think so. It has sides, and, in its recent configurations, it has straps sewn right on. They're wide apart in front and close together in back. And the garment doesn't seem to go back farther than the 1600s (I tried researching one for SCA wear, and they're not quite early enough.) -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- “The future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed.” -William Gibson -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] ORGANIZATION
If you're storing the tubs in temperature extremes, you might need to consider the stability of the plastic and its outgassing effects on the contents. Just a word of caution from the textile conservation side of things... Astrida -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Alexandria Doyle Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:23 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] ORGANIZATION I had a very frustrating time of trying to locate some items this weekend to show to a newcomer and have had it with the disorganization of my costumes, my sewing and assorted art supplies and tools. When I moved into my house I had a sewing room, then children moved home and things were packed in to tubs hapharzardly and stored in the garage and corners of my room, and for a while I had things in the living room and - I just don't know what I have or where it's at anymore as well as having some of the tubs only half full now because I've move some of the contents to another location. Over the upcoming holidays I have several long weekends that I could use to tackle this problem. I am thinking that an inventory list on the front of the tubs should be my first step. The question is, what can I use to fix the list to the box? The boxes stored in my garage are subject to intensive heat all summer long (Over 50 days with triple digits this past summer) so I'm concerned that tape of most sorts will just melt. And I'd like the list to be easy to change as I remove things so I'll know when I should combine tubs any help greatly appreciated alex need to check for those organizations that take scrap fabric because I know I have lots and after five years plus in storage I'm not going to use it. -- So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Getting ready for Halloween
Probably the movie Gypsy with Rosalind Russell as the stage mother and Natalie Wood as Gypsy. *** Astrida Schaeffer, Exhibitions and Collections Manager Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 Academic Way Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:38 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting ready for Halloween Gypsy Rose Lee I couldn't find a movie with that title. I can find a few she played in and a few about her life. Which one were you thinking of? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Journal of the Costume Society
I am as well... Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of monica spence Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:14 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Journal of the Costume Society Speaking of Janet Arnold-- Who is going to Florence in November for the Collequium? (Besides me and 3 friends, that is). Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Journal of the Costume Society A wedding dress worn by Princess Sophia Magdalena in 1766 in Costume, London, new series, #1, 1967, pp 17 - 21. Bjarne this comes from here: Someone posted this source awhile back...can't remember who... http://www.ravensgard.org/gerekr/arnold.html Sg From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:06:57 +0200 Subject: [h-cost] Journal of the Costume Society Can anybody help me with the informations about an article by Janet Arnold. She wrote in Costume about the wedding dress of Sophia Magdalena in 1766. I only have a photocopyed page of the article with the pattern cut. What i need is the year of the publikation. Thankyou... Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Modest clothing, was FLDS clothing
My favorite image is of a young Amish person zooming down the road on rollerblades... There's a contrast! There's apparently a term for the youthful let them try the world period teens are allowed to have during which usual rules don't apply as much, and it's Rumspringes which is just a lovely word. Literally, means jumping or springing around. OK, back to textiles Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FLDS Clothing
All that Poly is HOT in the summer. Monica Especially when worn over the requisite full-body long underwear. In Texas...While doing hard physical labor... I wonder how much heat prostration happened at the compound... Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Speedos by name
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:11 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Speedos by name Oh yeah, in Australia we call them budgie smugglers, in the chorus were wearing what appears to be tiny white Speedos. I've been giggling all day at that onethanks for sharing it!! Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Exhibitions and Collections Manager Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Languages - OT
I hire college students to intern in the museum for which I work, and as part of the application process I require that they submit a college-level paper so that I can see how well they write (writing is part of the job). And the one person who wrote the most beautifully in the seven years I've been doing this was a native Danish speaker. The American college students couldn't write their way out of a paper bag. Quite frightening, actually (Even more frightening is that most of them can't identify the parts of a ruler or do basic fractions-- also things the job requires since we hang art to specific measurements. Meanwhile, my Danish student did all her calculations in metric and then converted them--correctly--to Imperial.) Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:59 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Languages - OT I hope you won't kill me for this...but when I was studying in America (at the age of 12), most of my schoolmates made such terrible spelling mistakes it's quite funny, but I was one of the few students who managed to get an A in spelling:-D Zuzana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it weren't completely OT, I'd love to post some of the things my American college students write in English class. And, as you say, for most of them English is the only language they've got. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- From: Land of Oz Sent: May 6, 2008 1:01 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Languages Bjarne, I *never* make fun of anyone who speaks more than one language! but I do get a chuckle out of the occasional malaprop. I only speak the one I was born to and I admire anyone who can communicate in more than one language. My mother speaks 4 fluently and can get along in two others. Her native language is French and I can limp along a little, but my cousins were terribly amused to find that I had HORSE on my head, not hair. or was it hat? Anyway, you do just fine in English -- far better than most of the people on this list could do in Danish, I'd guess. Don't let it bother you if we sometimes get a smile from something you wrote -- A smile a day is healthy! Denise Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] WAS Sorry, had to laugh, NOW costume in NH
Not to glory in your pain, but I'm very relieved to hear this--the husband and I recently decided for sure NOT to move to WA (going to NH instead!) and we both get pressure/weather migraines. Sour grapes and all, but I'm glad to have one less reason not to regret our decision! -E PS--anyone have any suggestions for costume or museum related destinations in the northeast? Where in NH? Boston's Museum of Fine Arts has a costume collection, lots of small historical societies (we're filthy with them up here) have them too... Old York Historical in York, ME, several of the historic houses in Portsmouth, NH... The university museum here at Univ. of NH (sadly, NOT the museum -I- work for...though I get to play sometimes...I make museum mannequins on the side...) has a small collection. Peabody-Essex Museum in Salem, MA... Brick Store Museum in Kennebunk, ME... Dartmouth has a collection too, I believe... NH Historical Society in Concord, NH Not a lot of places will have things on display, but most will let you in to look if you're researching something or ask. Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] WAS Sorry, had to laugh, NOW costume in NH
Oh, I forgot-- there's a living history museum in Portsmouth too, Strawbery Banke (that was what the original settlers called the place when they came over in the early 1600s, because of the wild strawberries growing everywhere). They have a new exhibition space with occasional costume shown, plenty in storage, plus a few roleplayers (ever-shifting number). It's unique in that it doesn't focus on one time period, but rather shows the history of the place from 1600s up to 1950. Each house is a different date, most are original, some were moved to the site. Most houses do not have roleplayers, but there's kit for Rev War, early 1800s, 1830s, 1870s, 19teens, WWII (I know, because I used to do their reproduction costumes!) Also Plimoth Plantation, gem of living history museums. Everything Williamsburg should be and isn't. They have an incredible program going on now, a collaborative embroidery of a 17th c. jacket (MUST find the time to get on that!!! Sigh...) Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume in NH
Well, welcome! I've been told wonders about this fabric store, but haven't been there myself yet. Delectable Mountain, in Brattleboro VT-- about an hour away from your soon-to-be home! http://www.delectablemountain.com/ Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Exstock Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:06 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume in NH - Original Message - From: Schaeffer, Astrida [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where in NH? I'll be within commuting distance of Dartmouth, but I'm willing to drive a few hours to get my costuming jollies. I'm not willing to go as far as NYC, but anything in New England or even possibly the bits of Canada around Montreal is on tap. I may even get up the nerve to visit Yale's collection of illuminated manuscripts! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume in NH
: ) Glad to help! ; ) Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leif og Bjarne Drews Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:24 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume in NH WOOOH, thanks a lot, they have the red/ black silk jacquard i can use for the Estrup renaissance dress i am going to make, ben looking so manny places without any results. I am glad this shop isnt here in Copenhagen :-) Bjarne - Original Message - From: Schaeffer, Astrida [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume in NH Well, welcome! I've been told wonders about this fabric store, but haven't been there myself yet. Delectable Mountain, in Brattleboro VT-- about an hour away from your soon-to-be home! http://www.delectablemountain.com/ Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Exstock Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:06 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume in NH - Original Message - From: Schaeffer, Astrida [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where in NH? I'll be within commuting distance of Dartmouth, but I'm willing to drive a few hours to get my costuming jollies. I'm not willing to go as far as NYC, but anything in New England or even possibly the bits of Canada around Montreal is on tap. I may even get up the nerve to visit Yale's collection of illuminated manuscripts! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Les Adieaux en miniature
Bjarne, as always, your work is inspiring... Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leif og Bjarne Drews Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Les Adieaux en miniature Sorry this is off topic, but it is historical costume. I finnished the doll dress and i promised you to see it finished: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/cl31.htm More here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/the_queens_lady_in_waiting.htm I am going on a small holliday to Berlin the day after tomorrow, it wil be nice, but i cant waite to get home again and start another one. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
Having -danced- in Tatra Mountain costume, I can say #14 is not that... ; ) For one thing, the women of the region don't wear red boots, they wear leather slippers (with a really cool one-piece construction where the strip of leather than laces the flat piece of leather into a shoe shape is actually cut as part of the shoe, it's still attached...) Men wear similar leather shoes, not the boots the man in the painting wears. If anything, this might be an interpretation of the costumes worn in the Krakow area (which is the stereotypical costume most often worn in the country to represent Poland). But distinctive parts of Krakow costume are missing for the man-- namely red and white striped pants, and peacock feathers in the hat. Her red boots would work for Krakow, her flower/ribbon headdress would. As I said before, though, the apron is unlike anything I've seen, and her bodice is fantasy. There should be shoulder straps! *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 4/6/2008 7:43 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes My take on the pictures is: 13 is definately Russian, look at his shirt - proto-typical of Russian historical shirts. I have seen sleeveless over pieces like hers on historical documents/ pictures. Most likely worn during the 'hot' summer days. 14 appears to be from the Tartar Mountain region of Poland, look at the man's boots and pants. Her outfit is like many different regional variations, however the lace sleeves and the flower on the apron is NOT at all period to any time/ area (accept for modern 20th Century 'dancing' outfits made for the tourists) Katheryne who has been researching 12thC Polish female outfits - Original Message - From: Schaeffer, Astrida I'm thinking #14 would be more Hungarian than Polish-- I've never seen such aprons on a Polish costume-- But in truth I fear the task will be made that much more difficult by the liberties taken by the artist. For example the red strapless front-lace bustier garment in #14 is sheer invention... My guesses: snippage 13 definitely Russia 14 generic Slavic or Hungarian (not sure Polish would have been depictedas a nation Poland had just come out of over a century of non-existence, though it did briefly exist again as a sovereign nation in the 20s so maybe it was in vogue...) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
I'm thinking #14 would be more Hungarian than Polish-- I've never seen such aprons on a Polish costume-- But in truth I fear the task will be made that much more difficult by the liberties taken by the artist. For example the red strapless front-lace bustier garment in #14 is sheer invention... My guesses: 1 Greek (ancient) 2 Scottish sword dance 3 Dutch (the shoes!) 4 Aztec or Inca 5 Siam? Balinese? 6 Germany-- those are Lederhosen for sure 7 hmm... they seem to be holding boomerangs... Maori? 8 Siam? Balinese? 9 ancient Egypt 10 American Indian (am useless with further differentiation other than in general Plains) 11 some sort of Far Araby... that's a eunuch if ever I saw one, and those bare breasts and thin girl vs. enormous and slightly sinister man seem right out of Arabian Nights fantasy 12 Japan 13 definitely Russia 14 generic Slavic or Hungarian (not sure Polish would have been depictedas a nation Poland had just come out of over a century of non-existence, though it did briefly exist again as a sovereign nation in the 20s so maybe it was in vogue...) 15 Italy? the tambourine and his breeches 16 Polynesian 17 hmmm... the horizontally striped apron is distinctive, but no idea. *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 4/5/2008 8:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes De4ar Penny, Here's a few more guesses to throw in the ring. #4 - looks Aztec or Mayan from the headdresses. #14 - Hungarian or perhaps Polish? (taking it from the woman's red boots) #15 - Greek? #17 - French ? Briitany? #20? 1770-1790 - this is supposed to be depicting AMERICAN dancing?? This is after our Revolution and I don't thing anyone in America would have been looking like this.? Perhaps a European court doing a minuet? Anyway, there's my two cents with guessing. Hope it can help some. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 05:17:48 -0400 From: Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes I need help...please! I am so much out of my comfort zone. I have a slideshow online of the ballroom ceiling of the Ringling's Ca d'Zan Mansion in Sarasota, Florida. The ceiling is called Dancers of the World. There are 17 hand-painted medallions of cultural dancers. I need help with what countries and dances represented in the medallions. These were painted in the 1920s exclusively for the mansion by children's book illustrator / Broadway costume and set designer, William Andrew Willy Pogany. He was also a designer for the Zeigfeld Follies. He was friends with John and Mabel Ringling, the mansion's owner. He painted the medallions in his NYC studio and then applied them to the ballroom ceiling in Florida. I also need help with the photos 18-21. The curator said that these were titled Four Corners of American-born Dances. He told me that photos 18 19 dates represented but I can't recall the dances. I am not really sure that I have the dates correct for photos 20 21. And again, do not recall the dances. If you are able to answer my questions, please refer to the photo number on the slideshow headers in your answer. The slideshow can be seen at http://www.costumegallery.info/ . Please make sure to use .INFO and not .COM . When you go to the slideshow, make sure to click on the enlarged view...it looks like the number 7 on the right side of the menu. Many, many thanks in advance for your help. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] material for Russian coat
Hi-- I have just discovered a local store geared toward the craft of hooked and needle-punched and braided rugs-- which uses wool cut into narrow strips. So in this age of polar fleece, there's a store chock-full of wools of all weights and colors, year-round! I suggest she look for something like that. No idea if that particular craft is big in England, but it's certainly worth looking into... Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cassandra Greer Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:07 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] material for Russian coat Yes it has been like years but a friend of mine needs help that only clothaholics can provide. She would like to make the following coat for a play and still actually be able to use afterwards. She lives in England and is relatively clueless about where to find winter fabrics now that it is almost spring. Could any of you knowledgeable people suggest a few online fabric stores either in the States or in Europe that would have the appropriate type of material even at this time of year? Thanks in advance! Cass (clothaholic and costumer on ice until the kids are in school and the hubby has a better job...) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re:Finding Information
That does sound like a fun find, but do please be very careful of such tertiary sources (overviews and fact books that aren't actually from the period in question and just summarize information from sources which themselves MIGHT refer to the original primary source, but who knows?), especially Victorian ones. The road to hell is paved with the good intentions of Victorian costume historians... These are the folks who came up with images of 14th century gowns worn over curvy 19th c. corsets and hoops... So, enjoy the images, but if something strikes your fancy, turn to sources a little closer to your period of interest to try to find what the original actually might have looked like. And please, please, if you have Peacock's history of costume (that one's a modern abomination), take it out and burn it. It has nothing but impossible line drawings and no facts to back anything up. If only I could make all copies disappear from library shelves Looking in the bibliography and in footnotes is indeed an excellent way to find info. Sometimes a bit of digging turns up surprises-- I once decided to look up a reference to medieval women's underwear that a lot of people quoted from a book on Italian textiles by Maureen Mazzaoui. The author footnoted her source for the statement. I went to find the source. And discovered it was in a tertiary source with lots of inventive line drawings and nothing to back up the claim, with no further footnoting to follow up on. So, just because it's in a book, don't take it as Truth! And have fun digging--it's like figuring out a really complex and intriguing puzzle! Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Finding Information Thank you for your wonderful advice again, I never thought to look in the back of the book for the sources where the author did the research from! This is something I got from ebay and thought it would be worth having, the original would be awesome but this is a copy of the entire book on cd rom: The History of Fashion in France or The dress of women from the Gallo-Roman period to the present time. From the French of M. Augustin Challamel. By Mrs. Cashel Hoey and Mr. John Lillie 1882 It has 293 pages which are said to be all included in the disc and for the price I paid for it ($8) I am sure it will be worth something without losing much. This seems like a good place to start for my own collection, minus the dozens of Dover paper doll books my sister and I have accumlated over the years. I have the Godeys fashion plate book, and the history of underwear, and the history of the corset and there are others I want still but it is time to get into the real researching. Those books are good for at a glance information, and the pictures are stimulating too of course. Moore College of Art in Phila is where I went and they had a good library too, I think there would be no problem with me getting in there and looking around and perhaps atleast making printouts. they did have antique books in there that were costume porfolios but I think they were ethnic costumes, worth taking another look at though. Take care Justine:) More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1867 Washington DC Fashion question
It sounds to me like they were doing a historically-themed event... Possibly the marquise style references the Marquise de Pompadour? Though the neck ribbon (if just a simple ribbon)is definitely from the 1790s... Not that blending times in reenactments never happens! ; ) Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Agnes Gawne Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:04 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] 1867 Washington DC Fashion question My brother sent me a question about fashion in 1867 - specifically regarding a ball in Washington DC. Do any of you have any idea why an 1867 woman would powder her hair or wear a blue ribbon around her neck? Here is the original quote. It's taken from the letters of John Hay. He was Abraham Lincoln's private secretary all during the Lincoln administration and then got sent to France as a diplomatic attache during the Johnson administration. He wrote about the ball in DC in February 1867 when he'd just returned from Paris. begin quote: February 11. Mrs. Sprague gave a beautiful ball. The ladies who danced the Cotillon, and many who did not, had their hair powdered a la marquise. I have never seen so beautiful and picturesque a roomful. Some of the most striking were the Hostess herself (with whom I danced), the Hoyts, Miss Romain Goddard, Miss Haggerty, and Mrs. Banks, who was very correctly dressed, even to the extend of the blue ribbon around the neck, a little refinement in which she was alone -- Miss Kinzie, a fresh Western beauty and a superb danseuse. Mrs. Sumner and Miss Hooper, though not powdered, were beautifully dressed. :end quote I have my theories but I don't want to influence any of your answers as they are just theories. Thanks, Agnes ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Dress and textile topics, medieval Britain: Your wishlist
My suggestion isn't so much the headwords as something to include alongside the headwords-- their counterparts in other languages. For example, it's braies in French, but breeches in English, Bruche in German, and what about Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, etc.? Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862=0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Dress and textile topics, medieval Britain: Your wishlist
Oops, just read the England only bit. But still, the other languages would be very useful-- at least as a handle on research using the encyclopedia as a launch pad. *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862=0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schaeffer, Astrida Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:08 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dress and textile topics, medieval Britain: Your wishlist My suggestion isn't so much the headwords as something to include alongside the headwords-- their counterparts in other languages. For example, it's braies in French, but breeches in English, Bruche in German, and what about Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, etc.? Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862=0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
Ah, yes, the kowtow scene in King and I springs to mind A personal pet peeve is brides stomping around in their gowns because they never wear skirts and don't know how to move in them... hoop or no hoop... Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 10/6/2007 9:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes In a message dated 10/6/2007 10:56:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, they waltzed quite a lot in hoops in the period. Ah, but they had practice. I think a modern bride would be wise to practice, too, if she chose a hoop skirt--not only dancing, but walking, sitting, getting in and out of a vehicle. . . . Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] costume photos
Look, I don't live for the approval of email lists, OK? I coule care less if people think I'm nicey-nice. Fran I don't think anyone was talking about approval or being thought of as nicey-nice. Manners would have been appreciated, though. I am going to take your own advice and delete future messages from Lavolta Press. Sadly, I'm sure I will miss good content on occasion, but consistently abrasive, antagonistic posts do a disservice to both sender and list. Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] ruffs on the head?
If you're talking about the woman on the right, that's not a ruff per se, but rather a goffered veil, where a small ruffle has been woven into the edge of the veil as part of the cloth (there are a number of theories on how this was done) and the cloth is folded back and forth over the head a few times to build up the thick frill. Several enterprising weavers out there have done a reconstruction of the weave necessary, though I can't seem to find any decent links... Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] ruffs on the head? Here i found an interresting article looking for ruffs. This is older though and not a collar but a headwear, medieval. Nice reconstruktion: http://www.aabne-samlinger.dk/naestved/historie/hoveddug.pdf Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Frilled-edge veils (was: ruffs on the head?)
THANKS, Robin, those are great links!! I have a Danish friend and I've just asked her if she could translate for us. Might take a little while, but probably sooner than getting the busy people at the Center to get to it... So nice to see these; commercial variants are now available in the US reenactor market, but they're constructed of flat cloth with a sewn-on ruffle, and I just can't bring myself to do it. Not that a woven veil is any closer to being on my head for seeing this article, but it's so good to see the work being done (and inspirational to try it...) Fantasy vacation: 2 weeks at the Center This Danish friend of mine visits there every year when she goes back to visit family and she raves about the place... (Cue If I Were a Rich Man from Fiddler on the Roof...) Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Frilled-edge veils (was: ruffs on the head?) Oh rats! We were going to try this ourselves. If you do find any links or sources who you know have done this but don't have anything up online, we'd love to know. This article presents an in-depth analysis of the veil style and a proposed weaving method tested by the author: Giovanna Cenami's Veil: A Neglected Detail, by Carla Tilghman, in Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1, ed. Netherton and Owen-Crocker (Boydell, 2005). Since then, Carla has become involved in an international project on these veils, and from what I hear they are coming up with some astounding pieces of evidence, including an extant piece (or two pieces?) of ruffled-edge weaving. Here's info on the project: http://www.middelaldercentret.dk/Projekter/kruselerprojekte.html I should note that the project head, Camilla Luise Dahl, has done a really splendid article on an extant medieval linen cap (not frilled-edged) for the upcoming (2008) volume of MCT. I can vouch for her work. Many of the other names listed as involved in this project should be recognizable to members of this list. I know another member personally as a US re-enactor. More from that group here if you read Danish (I don't): http://www.middelaldercentret.dk/pdf/nyhedsbrevjan07tilweb.pdf See pages 15-23 (three articles). The articles include pictures of the extant piece (pieces?) of ruffle-edged fabric, and also pictures of various attempts at reconstruction, including weaving and starching. That's all I can get given how language-impaired I am. I will have to convince Camilla to publish this in English when they are all done. --Robin _ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Café. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline__ _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
I need to go back to the actual source again (as opposed to the info as it currently appears in my chapter) but if I recall correctly (and I last looked at this 2 years ago) there was the element in the trial that he was convicted because of the need to remove braies from his victim, that if she'd not had any on then she could have been a willing participant or perhaps had fair game status. Now, I can't state this with 100% certainty right now as it has been so long. Clearly I need to go dig up the records again and clarify how I presented the info in the chapter if I can't decisively answer the ses braies translation question based on how it's currently written. Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Adele de Maisieres Sent: Sat 9/15/2007 12:54 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women? Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Astrida: Là, en un selier, fist entrer, oultre son gré et par force, ladicte Perrete la Souplice, et la jeta à terre, et avala ses braies, et se mist sus lui, et s'efforça contre sa nature tant comme il pot... (Tanon, 88) Have you ever thought that et avala ses braies might also mean his, not only her? Just thinking...:-) I think that's entirely possible. -- Adele de Maisieres - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
Anyway, I -DID- run across a rape trial account where the man was convicted because he'd had to pull the girl's braies down before he could do the deed. Had there been no braies, her status as an innocent in the proceedings would have been in question. I'd be very interested in more details about this trial -- especially time, place, and how the account has been transmitted to us. Heather I keep forgetting I have PDFs of completed chapters, so finding this wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. The trial is listed in Louis Tanon's Registre criminal de la Justice de Saint-Martin-des-Champs à Paris au XIVe siécle, Paris: Léon Wilhelm, 1877 Là, en un selier, fist entrer, oultre son gré et par force, ladicte Perrete la Souplice, et la jeta à terre, et avala ses braies, et se mist sus lui, et s'efforça contre sa nature tant comme il pot... (Tanon, 88) (Now you guys won't 'need' to get the book should it ever make it off of my computer ; ) ) Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] comfort vs. fashion
And there you go-- this is so totally subjective. I don't mind pantyhose at all (except on really hot days). Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JAMES OGILVIE Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] comfort vs. fashion Anyone who thinks that people wear clothing for comfort and practicality should contemplate the wearing of pantihose. Janet It is surely interesting to think logically about such a problem, but, just as you say, we can never rely on it, and, as we all know, people didn't always act very logically and didn't choose the most comfortable garments they could. Think of all those corsets and hoop petticoats and cage crinolines - the latest being worn even by lower-class working women that would surely need a more practical dress than the bourgeoise and nobility. While it's certainly true that some fashions are more inconvenient than others on a purely practical level, I think that saying that people acted illogically and chose uncomfortable garments is misleading. We tend to think that our current fashion is the most logical, comfortable, and lovely one, but people in the past thought the same thing So I must agree with Heather that it's dangerous to use modern ideas of what is comfortable to evaluate historical clothing practices. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
Oops, sorry, I forgot-- the rape trial was in 1337 in Paris... ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schaeffer, Astrida Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women? Anyway, I -DID- run across a rape trial account where the man was convicted because he'd had to pull the girl's braies down before he could do the deed. Had there been no braies, her status as an innocent in the proceedings would have been in question. I'd be very interested in more details about this trial -- especially time, place, and how the account has been transmitted to us. Heather I keep forgetting I have PDFs of completed chapters, so finding this wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. The trial is listed in Louis Tanon's Registre criminal de la Justice de Saint-Martin-des-Champs à Paris au XIVe siécle, Paris: Léon Wilhelm, 1877 Là, en un selier, fist entrer, oultre son gré et par force, ladicte Perrete la Souplice, et la jeta à terre, et avala ses braies, et se mist sus lui, et s'efforça contre sa nature tant comme il pot... (Tanon, 88) (Now you guys won't 'need' to get the book should it ever make it off of my computer ; ) ) Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
There are images out there aplenty of women's hiked skirts showing chausses-- and they tend to be knee-high. The Egerton Genesis has drawings of Dinah being raped in the market and her leg is exposed-- definitely knee-high. The various Tacuinum (Tacuinae?) also have women showing a bit of leg here and there, and again, it seems knee-high chausses were the norm. Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:25 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women? Another question that has something in common with the first one is: Would women wear chausses under the skirt when it was winter? My understanding is that chausses were worn equally by men and women. I don't know if they just wore knee-high hose or full-leg chausses, though. If yes, it would be logic that they needed braies to tie the chausses to something. A simple belt would do here. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
As it happens I'm working on a book too, only pesky life keeps getting in the way of completion. Sigh. Anyway, I -DID- run across a rape trial account where the man was convicted because he'd had to pull the girl's braies down before he could do the deed. Had there been no braies, her status as an innocent in the proceedings would have been in question. The reference is buried in the disaster pile of research, I'll try to find it this weekend I don't think it can be said that all women wore them all the time. But I also don't think women never wore them. Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of E House Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 6:35 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women? - Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Basically, what I think she winds up saying is that virtually all the pictorial examples of women wearing braies in medieval Western Europe turn out to fit into one of two themes: (1) mythical women such as the Amazon warrior queen Penthisilea; or (2) who wears the pants in the family arguments between women and men. Neither one of these seems intended as a realistic picture of what women actually wore. It's been a while since I've read any of the texts in question, but I seem to remember running across quite a few crude gothic-era jokes about women, particularly mothers-in-law, falling down stairs or the like and landing with their nekkid bum in the air. The jokes wouldn't have worked nearly so well if the women in question were wearing braies... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne,
Agreed-- especially since some of the other Speisen und Trachten combos refer to fowl and fish! Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ingrid G. Storrø Sent: Mon 7/2/2007 2:09 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne, On Fri, 29 Jun 2007, Schaeffer, Astrida wrote: The phrase: Vom Ochsen seind drei und achtzigerlei Speise und Trachten zu machen Well, my German mother thinks Trachten is still clothing in this context, as that's the term for folk clothing. Specifically for this case, the leather pants that comprise part of the gear. This could then literally be a reference to the use of the meat --and hide-- of the ox. Hard to tell without more of the original quote... A google search on the phrase gives this page http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:p5MmvIoKn78J:www.ravenstreet.org/Tirloch/ein%2520neu%2520kuchbuch%2520-%2520transcribed%2520pages..pdf+vom+drei+und+achtzigerleihl=noct=clnkcd=1gl=noclient=firefox-a In the document 83 foods/dishes are listed as being made from the ox, which would probably mean that Trachten in this context isn't clothes since 83 is given as the combined number of Spesien and Trachten. Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses spam by Domenebutikken - www.domenebutikken.no Denne e-posten er sjekket for virus spam av Domenebutikken - www.domenebutikken.no ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne,
I've asked my native-German-speaking mother who also studied old German in grad school if she has any insight. But German capitalizes nouns, so I agree with everyone who's said so far that in this context, Trachten is definitely a noun Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne,
The phrase: Vom Ochsen seind drei und achtzigerlei Speise und Trachten zu machen Well, my German mother thinks Trachten is still clothing in this context, as that's the term for folk clothing. Specifically for this case, the leather pants that comprise part of the gear. This could then literally be a reference to the use of the meat --and hide-- of the ox. Hard to tell without more of the original quote... Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] What I (horrifically) wore
Think about it... And what did you wear when you were young that horrified your parents? Hot pink velour hip-hugger bell-bottoms... That were from the thrift shop and were waaay too short (but I loved them for some obscure reason and so didn't care). And it was 7th grade in 1975, my first year freed from Catholic school uniforms, so I was oblivious to fashion! Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: youtube film
My biggest issue was the jumping around in time. Stylistically/fashion-wise, that kept bugging me! Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] RE: Off Topic: What's your day job?; Was: robe a la francaise grande panier.
Costume is what I can't help going on ad nauseam about with anyone who makes the mistake of asking about my passions. During the day, I work in a small university art museum, handling shipping, insurance, etc. details for exhibitions, doing the physical shoving about of walls and painting and hammering to install and de-install exhibitions, and take care of our own (mostly 19th c. and up) collection. Every now and then I get to play with the costume collection at the university's history museum, and am hoping in coming years to step away from this job to make archivally-sound mannequins for the correct and safe display of historic costume collections (I do that on the side now.) With a husband recently in grad school, funds for costuming were non-existent. But in truth, time is the biggest lack. Full-time job, wife mother, side jobs--there simply isn't much time. And I'm supposed to be working on a book! (more focused version of Medieval Tailor's Assistant, with lots more references) It's only two years late...sigh... Someday Sigh. Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Florence 2008
That's great, thank you for checking! If anyone's starting a list, please add me to it-- luckily, it falls between exhibition installations at work so I can go!! Astrida Schaeffer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Kathy Page Sent: Tue 6/5/2007 4:46 PM To: Historical Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Florence 2008 I called a friend of mine who happens to own a travel company, and explained to her the details. She will do some checking around for group rates, minimum of 10 travellers for accomodation and airfare and anything else we may need to know about. When she gets back to me, I'll let you know. She said because it's so far in advance, we are more likely to get ball park estimates for now, but its a starting point. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lions head erased gules. It's never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. -Leonardo da Vinci Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Closure on June gown
Years ago, new to reenacting, I made one of these, too. My skill level was much lower then. I basically made a t-tunic and made sure to make it too small, so the front opening was necessary. I no longer have the thing but I do remember that it was easy to make and the lacing did all the fitting for me and I lent it to other women who were different sizes and it still worked. If I recall, I didn't have a lot of fabric and was able to make a dress with a pretty decent amount of skirt (gores). And I do know that I didn't have a lot of scrap left over, so it was a pretty efficient use of material. Now, what I made was a glorified T-tunic. And I understand that this might not have been the approach a peasant woman of the day would have taken. But the look was achievable by at least one method of simple cutting not that far removed from the looser peasant approach to clothing construction. I don't doubt the June scene is somewhat idyllic. But I don't think that means such dresses were never worn at all by peasants. Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Closure on June gown
If you're young, perky, and lucky, you may have something of the fashionable silhouette all on your own without the dress doing it for you, and a shaped dress will approximate the look. If you aren't young and perky, you'll need the dress to do more work, and that's where you get into the higher-class tailoring of the highly fitted dress. Considering that I was in my early 20s, that may be why it worked! ; ) I should try the experiment again on my early 40s, post-baby body A ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Translation help
Another vote for the hand version. Hand conveys a lot more than feel-- I guess I think of feel as being part of the qualities you get from hand! Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1350 - detachable sleeves?
Thanks, Robin... What about Stella Mary Newton's reference to the captive French king in 1360, (p. 58): The clothes consisted of a suit of three garments: cote, surcote, housee and hood, with two pairs of sleeves for the cote, all in violet cloth in grain; a dressing gown-- mantel a lever de nuit-- with a hood and two neck-pieces (ammucas); six pairs of hose in two colors in grain, a cote hardi, mantle, 'simple' cote (not padded or lined), a hood and two pairs of sleeves in blue cloth left over from the suit he had made at All Saints in the previous year. She says all this is listed in the Journal de la depense du roi Jean and I'd LOVE to take a look at the original sourcenot that my medieval French is that great! ; ) But anyway, these don't sound particularly special or embellished, though again, not seeing the original source I may simply not have enough info. Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets
You know, now that you mention it, I think most of the colored examples are grisaille. But I'll go through my files this weekend and nail down the image floating in my mind of color. I'll also look for the fluttery ones. Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Robin Netherton Sent: Thu 3/15/2007 10:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] tippets On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Schaeffer, Astrida wrote: There -are- examples of tippets in other colors, and some are sure drawn or painted in a truly light and fluttery way that seems to imply delicate fabrics, but more often than not they're white and if you can look closely enough you can see the fur. I'm still collecting tippet images, and I don't think I've ever seen one that could be called light and fluttery. Lots of drapey ones -- draping over arms or knees or hips -- but no fluttery. If you have any examples I'd be very keen on seeing them. The colored ones I know about are mostly from grisaille manuscripts, in which the figures are painted in whites/greys, looking rather like sculpture, with occasional accents in unrelated colors such as pink or pale green. Taken in isolation this might look like pink or green tippets (if the tippets happen to be the thing accented, as they often are) but the arbitrary color choice for the accents becomes apparent if you look at color use throughout the manuscript. I can think of a couple of black tippet images (such as one in the Wenceslas Bible) that are likely black fur, and maybe one reddish-brown that might also be fur. Also some hanging sleeve ornaments that are not band-and-streamer tippets per se but rather chains or bells. Other than that, I'm not recalling anything that might be considered a realistic example of a color tippet, and I'd be happy to see any examples you might have found. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets
It looks like Revival Clothing has interpreted the turned-back, white-fur-lined cuff with its pendant strip as a pinned-on accessory rather than the more accurate short-sleeve dress cuff with dangling tail. I know in this case you used that image to show what you meant, rather than as evidence, but it's hard enough to figure out what's going on when you look at a 14th century artist's interpretation of what a person wore, let alone a modern interpretation of that interpretation. There -are- examples of tippets in other colors, and some are sure drawn or painted in a truly light and fluttery way that seems to imply delicate fabrics, but more often than not they're white and if you can look closely enough you can see the fur. As for purpose,I suspect there's about as much purpose to tippets as there is to hip-hugger bell-bottom jeans-- to look fashionable. ; ) Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Thu 3/15/2007 3:43 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] tippets Thanks to everyone for the advice! When thinking about tippets, I came to another interesting - at leas for me - question - did they have some particular purpose or were they just decoration? I mean now the white, narrow ones that look as a separate accessory (this doesn't mean that they are). Like those: http://www.revivalclothing.com/images/tippet_hero.jpg (sorry I couldn't find any extant picture). Zuzana - Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets
Current scholarship is that they aren't a separate accessory at all-- they're the vestigial long pointy sleeve (morphed over time into a thin streamer) as seen hanging from a short-sleeved overdress. That's why they're so often white (and so often with little black specks)-- that's the ermine lining of the sleeve. Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 12:45 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] tippets Hi, does someone know how the tippets used to be attached to the dress? By pins? Or were they sewn-on? http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/enlarged/wg/wpic7.php Thanks, Zuzana - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
