Re: [Haifux] Real Time
On Thu, 29 May 2003, Orna Agmon wrote: > I talked to Iftach Hyams a bit about Real-Time systems, and realized I > know very little about that. Especially, the things that are important to > a real time programmer are very far from what I usually bump into. > > I would like to suggest asking him to give an overview lecture on the > topic. provided that this covers also real-time linux systems (RT-linux and friends) - then i'm for this. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Threads
On Sat, 12 Apr 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As far as I understand this is even an expected behavior, since Linux > has 1-to-1 thread model, which means that each thread runs actually in > different process. actually, this is not 'expected' - even thought this is a 'feature' of linux's kernel. it should not have been done this way - the fact that the threads are managed by the kernel does not mean they need to be different processes. on other operating systems, the kernel is aware of an entity named 'thread', and there, 'getpid' for different kernel threads of the same process - return the same pid. this is a fault with linux, and it causes a diversion from the posix threads draft, particularly in the way that signals are handled. as i read, there's a chance that in kernel 2.5/2.6, this will be solved. until then - programmers should not rely on getpid in threaded programs, and should try to solve their problems not using PIDs. erez - if you can't figure out how to solve your problem (not of getpid - the thing for which you needed the pid in the first place) - you may write about it again, with more details of what you want to achieve, and we'll try to help. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: SOLVED: Slow Linux response during disk operations (was: Testingon various computers needed)
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: > Sorry for not reading it (apparently wasn't here, maybe hackers-il, > but google doesn't find it), but what I usually do is kill -STOP > all of them, and only then kill -SOMETHINGTERMINAL. > Unless the user intended to abuse the system, and wrote a signal > handler for STOP, it would work well (and does in practice, with > all the OS course students I have here). a user cannot write a signal handler for the 'STOP' signal. this one, and the 'KILL' signal, are un-stopable in a user application. by the way, you forgot to mention that you kill -STOP the process group, rather then the processes directly one by one. i still remember the note regarding this that you (or someone else?) placed in bar ilan university's terminals farm, some 10+ years ago ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] stack size
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Orna Agmon wrote:
> Hello eveyone,
>
> I was wondering if there was anything that detected C stack overflow in a
> nice way (i.e., not by having to cut down my program until I stop getting
> a segmentation fault on the first line of main).
if this is linux on IA32, kernel 2.4, you can, should and must use
valgrind - but only during debugging (it slows the program tremendously).
i think you already know about valgrind, however, so i'm not sure what is
it that it is that you're asking for here
> In details:
>
> I have a program that looks somewhat like that:
>
> typedef struct{
> /*a huge struct definition*/
> } a_t;
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv){
> a_t a;
> return 0;
> }
>
> and I want to get something politer than a segmentation fault.
> I found some info on preventing attacks on the stack, so it seems to me
> that it should be possible to do this in a non- hostile manner.
>
> BTW, it is not a problem of lack of memory- the same struct can be
> allocated on the heap.
allocating huge structs on the stack, in a non-trivial program, is a
definite no-no. don't do that.
--
guy
"For world domination - press 1,
or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy
--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)
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Re: [Haifux] Nokia
On 2 Jul 2003, Ilia Lin wrote: > Hello ! > I'm searcing for software connecting my Nokia6210 phone with PC, that > runs under Linux. Can someone suggest me one ? > My configuration: > Seleron 600 > USB 1.1 > Sigmatel IRDA Dongle ( U160 ) > Nokia 6210 with IRDA there is a program named 'gnokii', which works with quite a few Nokia phones. according to their FAQ, your model should be supported. www.gnokii.org good luck, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] A free-software counter
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Eyal Rozenberg wrote: > I wrote the attached counter, and am using it. I hope I've applied the > GPL correctly but I'm not that well informed so there may be issues I'm > unaware of. hmm, i hope you're not realy using it, since it looks unsafe, in the sense that it takes file paths from the user and then goes opening them. a safe script would instead only take _logical_ counter names from the user, and translate them to a pre-configured file name. this way, the most that a malicious user could do, is make the software increase some other counter, but not cause the creation of a new file, for example. one thing i am not sure i understood: is the 'param' function indeed parsing the parameters form the incoming request? if this is the case, then this means that someone can write something else for the 'digits_file', and then might get the contents of an arbitrary file on the machine (assuming GD is not very particular about the file that it is opening and its internal format). there might be other similar effects that i did not notice yet... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] birthday celebration.
after a long silence, i think i'll be doing my best to get to this meeting, so count me as another vegetarian passer-by. if i manage to wake up early enough - who knows, perhaps i'll even make it to the lecture itself ;) hopefully, it'll be beyond basics -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] W2L0 Makefile basics, draft
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Maor Meir wrote: > As promissed: attached is the text I wrote for basic Makefile use to add > to W2L0 > look it over, comment, I'll fix as necessary and than shlomi could > HTMLize it to fit with the rest of the beautyfied lecture slides. you basically don't give examples of how the makefile's run looks. i assume you do intend to demo it during the lecture? the explanations are too terse the way they are - remember that your audiance does not have the notion of Makefile - it is this notion that should be explained, not just the technicalities and syntax. i'll try writing a more detailed example tonight. by the way, you could try looking at the lupg 'writing makefiles' tutorial for ideas (or you could not, ofcourse ;) ). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] pptp client problem using user name with '#'
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to connect using user name that contain '#' sign (My ISP use it > for IP VPN) without success. > Connecting with user name without '#' work just fine. just a guess - the shell's comment character is '#'. everything after this '#' is ignored. try to: 1. write the username between a pair of single quote characters: /bin/pptp 172.17.1.40 user 'Yben#user' ... 2. try to add a back-slash (\) before this '#' character: /bin/pptp 172.17.1.40 user Yben\#user ... perhaps one of these will work. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] W2L0 Makefile basics, draft
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Maor Meir wrote: > A revised draft. spelling errors corrected, shlomi's explanation > on syntax was fit in, a note on info was added at the end. the term 'time-stamp' might be unknown to people - perhaps add an explanation in pharantases, e.g.: time-stamps (time of last modification of the file) the term 'dependencies' will definately be unclear - this is makefiles-speak. perhaps you should remove the part about 'gcc -M' altogether - i'm not sure how easy you'll find explaining what it does, in a clear manner, in the time frame you have. and since you're not showing how this output can be used, it is rather pointless. on small projects, people are able to maintain the dependency list manually. i would add a log of a session showing how the makefile works, since only that'll make it clear to many people. an example session would show: (starting in a directory containing only the sources): - optional: ls [to show there are only sources] - make [output of a complete make here]. - optional: ls [to show the files that were created]. - edit one .c source (just show the 'emacs foo.c' command). - make [output showing only foo.o is rebuild and a relink is performed] - edit one .h source - make [output showing the two .c files that include this source, are rebuilt]. - make clean [output of make clean]. - optional: ls [to show that only sources remain while the rest was deleted]. most people don't have such developed recursive thinking, and this demonstration will help them grasp the idea better. i remember how hard recursive thinking was for me when i was a 1st-year student... > As for being too terse, I think the slides should be brief > and to the point. These are to be lecture slides not a tutorial. > They will be acompanied with explanations and a demonstaration obviously. fair enough - i'm arguing about the level of terseness ;) > I don't think I want to try ant teach makefiles with an example > much more comlicated than the one I showed, even though > obviously with an example this short it might not make sense to > use variables and such. it always makes sense using variables, even if only to make the makefile more a-estetic ;) also, $(PROG) is clearer then 'bar' (who would know that 'bar' is the name of an executeable file?). > I considred writing an example which required compile comands other > than gcc, but concluded it will just confuse people, and require > explaning some other tool. you're absolutely right about this. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Promotional material - Let's start the campaign!
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > Hi All, > It's time to start the advertising campaign. I am taking on my self the > job of advertising coordinator, unless anyone else wants it. perhaps it'll be a good idea to have the updated web site _before_ advertising? so people don't go to the web site, see that there is nothing about the series there, and dismiss the advertisement? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] NFS shows different time stamps on different PC
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Mark Silberstein wrote: > Local cache? I'm not aware of any caching NFS is doing by default. That > is, of course it is doing something, and its consistency model is not > strict, but it should eventually get to provide a consistent view for > all mounted nodes. I'm not sure that your answer is correct, taking into > account that the files I'm talking about were created a day ago - > everything was supposed to look the same here's a wild guess - could it be that your computer's clock driffted by 3 hours 20 minutes, and then was re-set using 'rdate -s PC3' ? check your system log files, to see if you have log entries that are out of order - that'll imply the clock was changed backwards (is it a backwards slip, or a forward slip, though?) i wonder if such a scenario could, at all, produce such results. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Please review new form
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > http://alon.wox.org/W2L-new/linuxday/register.html > > Registration form for the linuxday 1. better also markt he mandatory fields with an asterisk - for people with no color support in their browsers, for color-blind people, etc. 2. at the top, you have 'katavot email' instead of 'ktovot email'. 3. the use of various hebrew terms to denote GB and MB is confusing. it's better to use the english terms, or the full words (i.e. either 'GB' or 'giga batim' in hebrew). 4. in the last part (network), the field part of 'chibur' slips (on my screen, with galeon of redhat 7.3 in 1024x768) to the next line, like this: chibur lainternet derech: [_] degem modem: [_] chibur: [_] also the word 'chibur' here isn't clear - because it confuses with 'chibur lainternet'. 5. the form will look clearer, if it was organized in a table-like manner, with a single entry in each line, or with table-lines between the different fields, and the fields properly aligned. something like: outer table /-\ inner table 1inner table 2 /--\ /---\ full name: []email: [__] cellular: []other phone: [__] etc. this can be achived using an html table containing two internal tables. the external table will have a border of size 1, the internal tables will have no border at all. the form, as it appears now, looks messy. if you wish, i can try to write the html to make it look like this, and send it in for review. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] W2L and linuxday sites require review
i don't seem to see the fixes on the site even after 'force reloading'. did you place the updated version on the site. as for the site itself, the 'floating pneguin' is annoying, because it obscures the text, and i had to scrool just to be able to read what was underneath it. please consider making it a static image at the top of the page, rather then a floating image. in the page with instructions on who to defrag: - first part (before 1st image), last line, replace 'aptzia' with 'optzia' (i.e. there is a missing vav there) - text between 1st and 2nd images, the word 'et' should be removed (i.e. replace 'iofia et hachalon haba' with 'iofia hachalon haba'). - text after last image, replace "ma she'alul lakachat kama sha'ot" with "she asuia lehimashech kama sha'ot"). in fact, it might be a good idea to mention this at the top, or even in the 'preparing your computer' part section of the main linux-day page, and recommend that people do it over-night - most people will start doing it, and only then discover it is supposed to take a few hours. other people will think that because they think the operation takes only a few seconds/minutes, they could do it in the party itself. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Is the redirect to /newcomers/ a good idea?
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Eli Billauer wrote: > > > This is the classic paradigm held by Microsoft: The user has no idea > > what he or she wants, let's push our suggestions. That's why you never > > know what happens next when you run Windows. > > > > Why are we imitating? > > > > Let's think who comes to our sites: Ourselves, those looking for > > concrete info (lectures and such) and those who just heard about Haifux. > > > > The two first groups will be mildly annoyed. The third group will get > > the impression that all Haifux does is W2L. > > You're ignoring a fourth important group. This group includes people who > saw the paper ads to the W2L series and followed the link to www.haifux.org, > or heard a friend mention Haifux to them. Some of these people are not very > fluent with English and might think they have the wrong address if they see > the regular Haifux page. and if they had a very clear link, at the top of the page, written in hebrew, that links to the newcomers series, that's all they realy need. what you're doing now, is fix a bug in the ads, by breaking the web site. now, didn't the ads contain '/newcomers' as part of the URL? > Most new visitors to Haifux come via a search engine to an internal page, > and are not affected by the redirect. I agree the we should not redirect > people who visited Haifux via a link (from a search engine or otherwise), > but just those who typed the URL in (I can add this simple fix). well, what are you waiting for? add it, until you come back to your senses, and disable this silly redirection. and until then, make the english link at the top of the site _MUCH MUCH_ larger.. for example, large enough so it will be noticeable - they way it is written, it seems like a link to some legal mambo-jambo, that is common on sites, and usually appears in a very very small font (not to mention making it black, which makes it hardly noticeable). lets try to avoid breaking things that work, while trying to fix things that don't. > > > I think that a link in large font, possibly in red, near the top of the > > original page is enough to make it clear for any curious surfer that > > there is going to be a set of lectures. Don't worry, some of our > > potential visitors have the motoric ability to click a link, not to talk > > about the wisdom of choice. > > This link exists in any case. There is also a small English link at the > top of the newcomers site for people redirected by mistake. the link on haifux's front page is written in english, and using wording that makes it not so clear that it is indeed a link. better write instead "click here to get to the new 'welcome to linux' page". and have it in hebrew, with words such as "lich'tzu kan kedei lir'ot et hadaf shel sidrat ha'hartzaot 'bruchim habaim lelinux' hachadasha". if you have the link in this way, you'll be able to drop the redirect, and avoid the confusion. and until then, at least make the english link at the top of the W2L page much much more visible. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Guy Keren
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > Hi, > Anyone here knows where I can find/call Guy Keren about the lecture he has > to write (up to today)? Please reply in private mail. i will get it written until sometime tonight. just been procrastinating too much lately :0 -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] RFC: 'basic admin' lecture
i updated alon's original 'basic admin' lecture slides and temporarily placed them at http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/ - for review. comments are welcome. specifially, about the new stuff, regarding 'apt' (today was the first time i used 'apt' ;) ). please note that i did not put the output of running 'apt' on the 'apt' slide, because it is rather verbose. if you think i should paste it (or some of it) there anyway, let me know. note: the 3 missing '.png' files are accounted for, and will be added eventually. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: RFC: 'basic admin' lecture
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node6.html#h > > "similar to the way the urpmi utility works on Debian" > > I think you meant Mandrake. fixed. > In: > > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node15.html#h > > The link to the Questions-Asking HOWTO should be: > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html fixed. why on earth did he remove the faq from its former place to begin with? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] RFC: 'basic admin' lecture
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Orna Agmon wrote: > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node3.html#h > > I suppose you wanted to do something about the following line: > > Installers - Usually commercial software, which the wonders of copy and paste. re-added the missing lines. > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node5.html#h > > I would have noted that although it is usually the case that tar balls > create a directory by the same name, it is not a necessity, so in order to > go on the safe side, Iwould recommend to open new tar balls (especially > built by amatures) in an empty dir (or check their contents first). added a comment regarding the idea of opening tar files in an empty directory. > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node13.html#h > > I would have added ln , grep, find and setenv (or the equivalent in bash) 'ln' is a bit tricky to get right. no idea if i should mention it or not. setenv (or set + export, in bash) do not have man pages of their own - they are documented as part of the very large man-pages of their shells - so it would confuse people. i did add grep, though. > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node14.html#h > > I would have added apropos. > > also, don't know where (Is this basic use or basic admin?), add something > on |, > and <. Seems like one of the strongest tools for answering the > question: "What command will do IT to Something?" is doing: > > apropos Something |grep IT isn't it a bit advanced? i took me 2 minutes to figure out what you meant here :0 > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node15.html#h > > You have > > before asking a pro.\ > > Unless you meant asking a slash dot pro :)... fixed. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] RFC: 'basic admin' lecture
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/node6.html#h > > "names" should be "named" in the "To install a new program..." line. fixed. > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/basic-admin/adminlec.css > > Please replace "violet" with "#ee81ee" (sorry, my mistake). ok, done. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] RFC: 'basic admin' lecture
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > > on |, > and <. Seems like one of the strongest tools for answering the > > question: "What command will do IT to Something?" is doing: > > > > apropos Something |grep IT > > I agree this falls somewhere in between and should be mentioned. Maybe add > a slide about redirection. hmmm... this is beginning to take the lecture too much off-topic, and to complicate it. if there will be extra time during the lecture (hint: there won't be any), i might demonstrate that to interested people, in order to confuse them better ;) the idea of the lecture is not to blow people's minds up - the lecture already contains a lot of material, as it is. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] In the Nick of Time: Networking Lecture (take 2) is Prepared
shachar, generally, your networking lecture is a bit over-technical. you forget that the target is new users - there is no need to land on them with the full theoretical background - they first want to get connected. after they used linux for a while, those of them interested in the issues, will want to learn more. thus, it is a good idea to make sure that you also give practical advise, not just pointers to HOWTOs. now, more specific examples, and other issues, as i read the slides: 1. the word 'ISO' appears in the 'lecture goals' slide with no explenation (ISO model). as a rule, try to avoid using forward-references, especially when you don't even mention that they _are_ forward-references. these kind of things are good places for people to lose track of the lecture 2. still in the 'lecture goals' slide, last bullet, "apologies to these who" should be "apologies to those who" ^^^ 3. the 'Ethernet' slide, 2nd bullet, better cange the order to: "In home networks, mostly found as .". otherwise, it appears you're implying that ethernet is most commonly found in home networks - which is probably incorrect. 4. in the 'dial-up modems' slide, don't use the word baud - this is incorrect. for example, 14.4Kbps modems still communicated in 2400 bauds. they achieved a higher speed then 2400Kbps modems by using 'electrical engineering wizardry' (don't ask me how - ask an electrical engineer). also - how common is it today, to buy winmodems, which do not have matching drivers for linux? for example, the rockwell-based modems (as far as i know) have linux drivers, and are very common as 'build-in' modems in computers. according to your wording, usually when one would buy a winmodem, it will not work under linux. is this still true? 5. in the 'ADSL modems' slide, last bullet, better add after it "so be sure to ask your dealer for an ethernet-modem, not a USB-modem". people should know that there is the option to do that. 6. the 'WiFi' slide - you don't even explain what WiFi is, other then by giving the standard's number. perhaps add that "it's a wide-spreading standard for wireless local area networks, allowing to connect computers without using cables" - or something like this. 7. in the layer two slide, the title: "4 Layer 2 - the Data Link Layer". this "4 Layer 2" is confusing. perhaps adding a dot after the '4', and one extra space, would make it clearer that it is not part of the title: "4. Layer 2 - the Data Link Layer" if you add the dot, better add it on all previous and following slides, too. also, you use the term 'broadcast' without explaining it. or are you reffering to it as in "le'shader" ? if so - better replace it with 'send data' - not as technically accurate, but clearer. 8. in the 'PPP' slide, better add a link to a page explaining how to set-up kppp (e.g. redhat has such a manual, i found one for version 7 at: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7-Manual/getting-started-guide/s1-ppp-kppp.html 9. in the 'VPN' slide, the explanation about tunneling contains the words 'down to and including this layer' - which layer? the link layer? then say that explicitly, as in "down to and including the link layer" - people would have forgotten by now that this slide is part of the set talking about the link layer. also, last bullet, the wording is 'confused'. perhaps re-write it as: 'Many ADSL and Cable providers require their users to connect to them using such a VPN'. it will also be a good idea to make this bullet first, and then remove the word 'such' - this will allow people to see why they should be interested in what a VPN is, because otherwise, they are not going to see or use a VPN at all. 10. in the 'ADSL and Cable' slide, bullet about PPTP, better modify "The PPTP protocol support is a bit more problematic", to "The PPTP protocol support is a bit more problematic to set-up" ^^^ othewise, it appears as if you're contradicting yourself in the second part of this sentence. also, regarding Cables, there are 1 or 2 howtos written about the israeli providers - didn't someone on the list just write about such a howto? there is also another that was mentioned on linux-il several month back - anyone remembers when? looking further down, i see that you're giving this link on a seperate slide - it would be better to move it to this slide, to increase coherency, and make it easier for the readers to avoid asking questions about 'but what if i have cables - how do i make them work?' while you're presenting this slide. 11. in the 'DHCP' slide - is DHCP realy layer 3? if it is - why is it sicussed before mentioning what layer 3 is? 12. in the 'few notes about the IP protocol' slide, first bul
[Haifux] 'valgrind' link in the 'programming' lecture
someone better add such link, to the valgrind slide, where the slide mentions how easy it is to install valgrind. http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj/ (valgrind's home page). there is also a valgrind-HOWTO: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Valgrind-HOWTO/ -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] In the Nick of Time: Networking Lecture (take 2) is Prepared
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Maor Meir wrote: > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Raindel Shachar wrote: > > > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, guy keren wrote: > > > 4. in the 'dial-up modems' slide, don't use the word baud - this is > > >incorrect. for example, 14.4Kbps modems still communicated in 2400 > > >bauds. they achieved a higher speed then 2400Kbps modems by using > > >'electrical engineering wizardry' (don't ask me how - ask an electrical > > >engineer). > > > > >From "WordNet (r) 2.0": > > baud rate > > n : (computer science) a data transmission rate (bits/second) > > for modems syn: baud > > > > Therefore, if a modem communicates in 14.4Kbps, it's baud-rate is 14.4Kbs. > > 56000 is the physical maximum limit for dial-up modems (8000 symbols per > > second, each of 7 bits). This limit is implied by the fact that the phone > > line is sampled at the telephony switch at 64Kbps (8000 samples per > > second, each is 8 bit). I am a student in EE :-). > > > > The Jargon file is more elaborate on this issue, and under baud > it lists: "...The technical meaning is `leveltransitions per second'; > this coincides with > bps only for two-level modulation with no framing or stop bits. Most > hackers are aware of these nuances but blithely ignore them." > > The Free On-line dictionary also has more on baud: >/bawd/ (plural "baud") The unit in > which the information carrying capacity or "signalling rate" > of a communication channel is measured. One baud is one > symbol (state-transition or level-transition) per second. > This coincides with bits per second only for two-level > modulation with no framing or stop bits > > > I personally believe using baud as a synonom for Bits per second > is perfectly acceptable, and it is widely used in this fashion. > > Meir if you like abusing terms - go ahead. i hope some hacker breaks into your system - i don't mind if you want me to call him a cracker - since you don't care about subtletes anyway. ;) since electrical engineers here have failed us(...), i will write what i once was told by an electrical engineering student, who have learned this specific subject, back in the 14.4Kbps modem days. he worked in a technion lab that designed such an 14.4Kbps modem, and he used to know what he was talking about in general, so i pressume the information was correct. the modem still sends data in 2400 baud. however, it super-imposes(is this the right term - to combine several signals together?) several signals on the same link, using phase shifts (e.g. one signal is sent in a +90 degrees phase shift, another in a -90 degrees, etc). this way, they were able to combine 14400 / 2400 = 6 signals on a single carrying signal. a filter on the receiving side would de-compose the carrying signal back to the original 6 signals. i might have gotten the details wrong. here is a site trying to explain modem's modulation with text and graphs: http://www.physics.udel.edu/wwwusers/watson/student_projects/scen167/thosguys/ or this one: http://www-scm.tees.ac.uk/users/a.clements/Async/async.htm so be a sport - don't say the modem works in 56000 baud - say it works in 56000 bps. it's not as if using 'baud' makes people understand you better - the listeners do not care which term you're using. and in such cases, i prefer using the right term. i hope you do, too. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Forums Coverage for Lectures 0-1.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: > iglu.org.il - check > Whatsup - check > Asat (username: shlomif) - check > Ynet (no login required) - check > Nana (no login required) - check > Tapuz (username: Shlomi Fish) - check > Walla (username: shlomif6) - check does penguin.org.il have its own linux forum? what about linux.israel.net - does it have an active forum? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] [ANN] cdepend: Map your C project
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Eli Billauer wrote: > So I wrote a little utility, which scans through a project, and maps > which function calls which. It generates reports that tell you in which > file and line number each function is declared, who calls it, and who it > calls. how is cdepend different from the existing cross-reference tools? why did you find the need to read debug information from binaries, instead of using some tool that parses the source (e.g. finding an existing lex+yacc based tool that already parses the C code, and adding your own parts in it? what is (are?) the advantage(s?) of parsing the binary file? as for questions about the tool itself: 1. does it handle static functions? those can appear in several source files, with the same name, and if all placed into the same directory, will result a collision. 2. i guess you didn't yet handle sources scattered on several directories - of you just presume someone will feed _all_ the '.S' files together, and you'll generate one gigantic directory for _all_ the functions in the code? 3. i presume you cannot handle function pointers passed around the code? that is, a pointer to function C is passed from function A to function B, and then function B be invokes this pointer - you won't be able to say that function B calls function C - would you? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] tommorow's admin lecture
hi, just wanted to make sure i will be able to run a few commands tommorow during the lecture. for that, i should either have some local linux laptop, or an ssh client on the windows machine, in which case alon could log into vipe or a simlar machine to do the demonstrations (does vipe has 'apt' installed? if not, there is apt on my home PC that can be used for the demonstration as well). in the worst case i can stick to only using the slides. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] SOLVED: Permission denied
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > Ron Artstein wrote: > > >What the FM > >needed was a line saying that in order to run a file it has to have > >execute permissions *and be on a device mounted with the exec flag*. > > Actually, I don't think it's the fine manual's fault at all. Mount is > mount, permissions are permissions. and the 'noexec' flag for mount effects file permissions. you are arguing about semantics - but showing that something is semantically wrong, would not fix the usability problem - which is there, after all, as ron has demonstrated. > What I think should happen is that, when a partition is mounted > "noexec", it should do just that - no exec. Even if the filesystem > itself has the x flag on, it should not appear to be on. > > Had that been thesituation: > Try to run the program > Get "permission denied". > Do "ls" - see "-rw-rw-r--". > Do "chmod a+x a.out". i assume you want to say that 'chmod' should return an 'EPERM' error - and already here one will start suspecting something is wrong... > Try to run the program. > Get "permission denied" again. > Do "ls" - see "-rw-rw-r--". > Realize that something is preventing the "x" flag frombeing set. > Remeber "noexec" mount option. here is the problem: the user does not necessarily _know_ about this option. perhaps it was set there, by default, during the system installation process, and the user didn't know about it. the fact that you get a behaviour from the system, that looks "odd", can confuse anyone. even someone who once dealt with the 'noexec' flag. if the system and/or manual can give you a better explanation as to why 'permission is denied', they should do that. will it complicate the application and introduce new bugs? not if such operations were done via a library meant for that, and many applications used the same library to 'run programs' (for example), or to generate more elaborate error messages. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Errors when Compiling 2.4.22 with modules (fwd)
i would try to break the problem into two problems. first, disable the automatic mounting of the ntfs file-system(s), and see if you can boot into the new kernel with the ext3 partitions only. by the way, i assume that ext3 is compiled directly into the kernel, and NOT as a module. if this is not the case, change it to be compiled into the kernel, and re-compile the kernel (re-compile means 'make clean' and only then 'make') and then try again. if you got ext3 mounting to work with the new kernel, then try to _manually_ load the ntfs.o module, and manually mount _IN READ-ONLY MODE_ an NTFS partition - see if that works. only after you manage to get this working - try to handle automatic mounting during boot. --guy > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:07:02 +0200 > From: yacoub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Haifux] Errors when Compiling 2.4.22 with modules > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Baruch, > >Yacoub could not read your question, I expect, because he is not > >subscribed to haifux. Hence, I am re- CCing him. > >Orna. > > > >Yacoub, Baruch has a question for you. > >Orna. > > > >On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Baruch Even wrote: > > > > > > > >>* Orna Agmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [031123 20:49]: > >> > >> > >>>I am forwarding a question on behalf of yacoub, since I did not know what > >>>to do about it: > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>I'm trying to install kernel 2.4.22 , but I have the following > >>>failure: > >>> > >>>mouting the filesystem fails at boot , > >>> i have NTFS /ext3 partitions , so i configured modules support for > >>>NTFS,ext3,dos...and automounter > >>> several boots lead to irrecuvarable errors , and i have to reinstall > >>>Mandrake from CD > >>> > >>>when i do "make module" i get warnings : > >>> inode.c:1720: warning: concatenation of string literals with > >>>__FUNCTION__ is deprecated > >>> > >>> > >>The warnings are harmless and can't lead to any problem of corruption. > >> > >>The NTFS drivers are considered beta (if not alpha) and are expected to > >>work for read-only operation. Write operation is considered dangerous to > >>your health. > >> > >> > i once used a "buffer" fat32 partition to move files from linux to > windows , ..but that > was a special occasion , there isn't much use for it in general > > >>What is strange is that the Linux partition is corrupted and not the > >>NTFS one(s). What sort of errors did you get before you had to > >>reinstall? > >> > >> > well this is part of the problem , dmsg and /var/log/ don't show the > particular boot messages ,.. > what i remember from the flash messaages at boot ... is "filesystem not > supported by kernel " > and after several boots , "filesystem check fails " > > > >>Baruch > >> > >>-- > >>Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) > >>To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -- > Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) > To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Home network setup help
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, Maor Meir wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Amir Yalon wrote: > > > I'm currently migrating my windows machine to dual boot with gentoo (the > > final goal is to abandon windows). The machine has two network cards: > > one for local network (eth0 in linux) and one for Internet (eth1). > > Currently the machine in question is set up as firewall, NAT and DNS > > forwarder using commercial software (Winroute Firewall) and the other > > machine on the network is surfing the WWW through the gateway machine. > > seems to me you need to set up IP masqurade for internet conection > sharing, try adding the rule: > > iptables -t NAT -A POSTROUTING -o eth1 -j MASQURADE in addition to that, make sure that 'ip forwarding' is enabled on your machine. to check if it is enabled: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward if it shows '1', you're ok. if it shows '0', then ip_forwarding is not enabled. to enable it temporarily, just type: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward and then check the 'cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward' command again - it should display '1'. to make sure ip forwarding is enabled after the next reboot, you need to get this operation done every boot. if you have a file '/etc/sysctl.conf', edit this file (VERY carefully, and after making a backup copy first), locate the line stating 'net.ipv4.ip_forward = 0', and cange the '0' to '1'. if there is no such line, add it, like this: # Controls IP packet forwarding net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1 (the first line with the '#', is a comment). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] slides for monday's lecture "users, processes, permissions - and what's between them"
The slides are temporarily available at the following URL: http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/users-processes-and-permissions/ examples will be shown on a live linux system during the lecture. note that i decided to cut off the I/O redirection stuff - there are already 29 slides, and that's the top for a 2-hour lecture (yes, that's right. the lecture is going to span 2 hours, with a 10-minute break between them). someone with access to haifux's home page - please put the slides there as well. the 'tar.gz' file is temporarily available for download from: http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/users-processes-and-permissions.tar.gz if anyone has any comments/corrections and sends them over, i will try to fix them before the lecture. see you on monday, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's lecture "users, processes, permissions - and what's between them"
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Orna Agmon wrote: > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, guy keren wrote: > > > > > The slides are temporarily available at the following URL: > > > > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/users-processes-and-permissions/ > > > > examples will be shown on a live linux system during the lecture. > > I think that the title of the whole lecture, occupying a great deal of the > screen, should be ommited. It is enough that it is in the title of the > page. The real heading of the page is hidden somewhere under tha nav bar. me too. i was simply using alon's html breaking script. i'll make them go away. > I think when /etc/passwd is discussed, /etc/shadow should also be > mentioned, as this is actually how systems work nowadays. You mention > shadowwing, but not /etc/shadow i intended to mention this file, and then forgot it. ok, added two slides for this file. > slide 6: I find the last line redundunt. saying "normally" is enough to > say that sometimes it is not, and if you you say nothing of it now, there > is not point to add another line saying you are not saying anything. it is there to emphasize that there are exceptions. if i didn't write it, people will forget about the exception. besides, this line has a literary value, as it advances the plot... > You use the terms owner, group, others. this is very confusing (I was > confused like this for years): > > chmod o+w is not for the owner: o stands for others. whereas a stands for > all. Using "owner" all along the lecture would imprint the term owner. which is why i keep using the term 'User owner', rather then 'owner'. i added hyphens now (i.e. User owner -> User-owner), and changed any instances of 'owner' to 'User-owner' and of 'group' to 'Group-owner'. but be sure that people WILL see the original terms used often > I think also a very important thing to teach is to check after yourself when > you change permissions, at least in the first few times, to see you did > what you intended. And only that. this is something i will mention during the lecture. how would you put it in the slides, and where? > slide 10:I would reccoment doing the RWX letters upper caps, like you did > with the U,G upto that point. i use lower-case letters, since these are actual letters people need to type in commands. if i will use upper-case letters here, people might be confused to trying to use the upper-case letters in the command, and then wondering why it did not work. > Many slides are bigger than a screen (at least mine). Uncomfortable for a > lecture. i know, but i didn't want to break them down, to avoid losing focus. i did break down those that looked appropriate for breaking. > slide 12: s/Lets/Let's/ (Let's is a short for Let us) ok. > 13: the font of the example is way too small. Check out the size of the > font is the basic admin lecture- people complained on its small size then. i enlarged the fonts for the various examples in the slides. > 14,15: Capital letters on the "give" lines. ok. > 15:Ask the system administrator to create a new group containing this > list of users: I think we should assume they have (at lesat some of them ) > access toroot, and teach how to do that. they'll do that via the GUI. since i don't have a redhat 9 system, i can't write how this is done. i might demonstrate doing this by manually editing the "/etc/group" file. you think it's wise to show that? ;) > 16:Make the Group-owner of the file be this group: I think the slides > should mention chgrp. i showed 'chgrp' in the previous slide. there was no point in repeating the entire commands list here too. > 21: I think we should teach also (and in my opinion, instead) the shell > commands which do similar actions: ^c, bf, fg. i thought about it, but then decided that job-control is too much for this lecture (it is a _very_ confusing issue, with processes seeming to have vanished, while they are actually still alive and kicking, etc). i leave the whole issue of job-control via the shell, to a lecture about usage of the shell. > It is dangerous to send > commands with kill, because a kill might be sent by mistake. and we should > warn that replacing the order of the pid and the signal is hazardous- > it creates kill -KILL instead of what we wanted. i'll mention it during the lecture. and it won't help - people will have to kill their own shell once or twice, in order to learn to be catious... > 22: in "Other then the": s/then/than/ ok > 23,24(twice): in "rather then": s/then/than/ actually, 3 times on all slides together. fixed. > 26: when my screen is too narrow, the lines (with pre) go out of the >
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's lecture "users, processes, permissions - and what's between them"
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Orna Agmon wrote: > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, guy keren wrote: > > > > > I think also a very important thing to teach is to check after yourself when > > > you change permissions, at least in the first few times, to see you did > > > what you intended. And only that. > > > > this is something i will mention during the lecture. how would you put it > > in the slides, and where? > > I would show an example of a chmod, and then ls -l of this file, and read > with them (slowly) the interpretation of all those x's and r's and -'s and > w's. also for a directory, to see the d. Better, I would ask any of the > listeners to interpret that for us. i asked - how would you put it _in the slides_? i still cnnot ask for people's participation in a statically written slide ;) > > > 29: I personally find the summary line :"Google for them all on your spare > > > time.." > > > improper. > > > > improper in what manner? i am trying to say "you'll need to learn about > > these issues on your own, because we are not showing them here". they are > > bound to stumble on these issues sooner or later - so i just make them > > known by name. > > the google direction scares people. you can say it oraly, but it loks bad > written. they come to us in order not to be on their own. they want to > know what they have leaned, not that there is a google out there. and a > summary slide is important- it gives the sense of achievement. > it differes from table of ocntents, in that people are supposed to know > what you are talking about by then. so you'd rather i don't mention these issues at all? i mentioned them for one reason - the next time people will encounter them, they could tell themselves "hey, i heard about these beasts before", which should (in my opinion) reduce the puzzlement factor. > "Tell them what you are goingto tell them, then tell them, then tell them > what you told them". ok. i'll think of how to add such a slide without it looing silly _as a slide_. i know i'm supposed to summarize everything in the end of the lecture (i went to "teaching methods 1(01) a decade ago). i'm arguing about whether this should be reflected in the slides, or only be done verbally. > regarding the octal chmod: I do not think it is good to use it, but I > think they should learn it exists, and the difference between octal chmod > and umask. could get very confusing. the intention of _this_ lecture is two-fold: 1. show peple how to do something. in this case, if there are two ways to do something, i prefer showing the simple one. 2. explain what is going on. from this point of view, i should explain the _permissions_ themselves and how they work. note that i am not even mentioning 'umask', and it did not come up until now. there is just so much that can be covered in a 2-hour lecture. i would consider lengthening this series into 4 lectures after i see the reactions to the first lecture. attendance, for one thing. of course, since this series does not get he same publicity as the 'welcome to linux' series did, i don't expect that many people to show up. but then again - i might be surprised... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] mirroring
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Amir Spivak wrote: > שלום לכולם, > אני מחזיק שרת נתונים שרץ תחת Red Hat 7.3, אני רוצה לגבות אותו בצורה הכי פשוטה למקרה > וההארד דיסק שלו יגווע יום אחד, השאלה שלי היא האם יש איזה שהוא כלי מסוים ופשוט! לעשות > העתקה של דיסק שלם לתקליטורים או לדיסק אחר, אני מדבר על כלי דומה לנורטון גוסט. > תודה, > אמיר. yes, there is such a tool. its ame is "norton ghost". if you buy a current version, it supports the linux file systems (ext2, ext3). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Suggestions for part 2 of SiL#1
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Alon Altman wrote: > Hi, > Now that the SiL#1 lecture was split into two, we can add more material to > the lecture. Here are my suggestions. > > I think the following things should be added to the lecture: > - umask as i shouted at the end of the first lecture - i'll talk about umask. > - sTicky bit *shrug* you _do_ want to confuse the listeners completely? as if umask is not confusing enough... oh, well. i'll try to find a simple way to explain that. > - a bit more on symbolic links (what happens when you delete the link >target, etc.) i'll add that to the slides. > If there is time: > - hard links > - device files device files will be covered during the 'installing a device driver' lecture - i don't want to bring into this lecture, which will make it look like "so what?". > - chroot no, no, no. definately not. this is where i draw the line. there will be no chroots in my slides! ;) i mean that. i'll have to think about a very good example for umask... wait a minute... i think i got it. (to be continued...). dot dot dot. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Suggestions for part 2 of SiL#1
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Orna Agmon wrote: > > Hi, > > Now that the SiL#1 lecture was split into two, we can add more material to > > the lecture. Here are my suggestions. > > > > I think the following things should be added to the lecture: > > - umask > > - sTicky bit > > - a bit more on symbolic links (what happens when you delete the link > >target, etc.) > > Alos, whar are the meanings of the colors ls produces- a link to such a > table or soemthing (we don't need to study colors by heart, except for > red=don't walk :) ) color-ls colors. all right, all right. but i only cover the more common colors! > And I think the left slides plus what alon wrote upto this point would > fill alecture completely. provided we have a theme to bring them and to find them and in the class room's air to bind them no, no, that's not the theme. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] slides for monday's lecture
the (updated) slides for monday's lecture are temporarily available at http://www.actcom.co.il/~choo/users-processes-files-and-permissions/ . the slides, in one 'tar.gz' file, are at: http://www.actcom.co.il/~choo/users-processes-files-and-permissions.tar.gz (hopefully, they will be placed on haifux's web site, by the kind little dwarves [hagamadim haktanim hatovim]). note that i added umask, fuser and lsof, and the sticky bit. i did not add hard links because there are already too many slides now ;) and i expect 'umask' to take a while to properly explain, with the octals, bit-operations, etc... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's lecture
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Oron Peled wrote: > On the last slide: > * Hard Links - when two Files are actually the same File. > > Can be corrected (and in my experience be explained with less confusion > to newbies): > > * Hard Links - when a file has more than one name. ok, done and will be uploaded in a few minutes. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's lecture
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: > 24: > > Only when the Process closes the File, the File will be actually deleted > from disk -> > > Only when will the File be... > > (I don't know why. Just English) ok. > 25: > > fuser is not always in /sbin- On my Debian it is on /bin. I think it is > more confusing than not, to list the specific path to a command which may > not be there- better to insert both /sbin, /bin /usr/local/bin etc. into > the path (or teach them that these are good thing to have in the path) but > this is not the place. So the fact that you may not have /sbin in your > path need not reflect on the slides. i am not talking about the shell here - i am talking about 'fuser'. the fastest way to get it working, is by specifying it should be invoked as /sbin/fuser/. your debian system is of no concern to me, because this lecture is not meant for debian users :P~~ > 26: > Nobody would know what mmap is. It is way beyond this lecture. I suggest > to avoid the wordmmap, and explain instead. The term adds nothing right > now. i have to use 'mmap', because that's the term people will encounter all over the place. i will explain it during the lecture in a vague manner (note that i also did not explain what a 'shared library' is). > 27 and 28: 28 is MIKRA for 27. I suggest shortening the output of lsof > manually, in order to fit them on the same screen, according to Ron > Artstein's principle of avoiding window switches. there's no way for doing that - the legend alone is too long as it is. > Otherwise, I epect you > would find yourself explaining about the kinds of files when you either > have the list and no examples, or doing it off by heart with the list- and > no slide to aid the audiance. Or switch slides all the time. then i will need to simply avoid the rotation... besides, i have other means of demonstrating this - i will show the example without too much explanation. then go to the legend slide and talk about each 'entry' in _short_. then go back to the output window, highlight each entry in turn, and re-explain what it is about. > 37 > When set fora File, it means that the File should be copied into the > swap device, rather then loaded from its original location. This could > make the File load faster. > > should be rather THAN. ok. > And the term SWAP might need explaining. will do, by heart. just like 'mmap'. > Also, I do > not get the purpose of loading a file by copying it from one part of the > HD to another, even if it is called SWAP. how does it make the loading > faster? come to the lecture and find out ;) if everything was clear from the slides directly - who would need the lecture and the lecturer? > 38: If we are in UNIX basics, should this be Unix? (in " Linux allows > creating a File.." we are talking about Linux. we are in the Linux club. Linux killed the rest of the Unix world for most of us. after years of using 'Unix/Linux', i decided to drop Unix, and stay with Linux. especially when this is not a lecture for purists. > giving a program the impression ... > > should be with capital G ok. > > Amaze your friends or bewilder them. > > should be "Amazing your friends or bewildering them" to support parallel > structure (mivne makbili). ok. > 42 > > I suggest directing to slides of lecture 7 (by you) > http://www.haifux.org/lectures/7/ hwich is about intro to sockets. hmmm... which slide is slide 42? why don't use use the titles instead? are you refering to the last slide, 'what we did not cover today?'? if so, the sockets lecture has got nothing to do with this - it relates to BSD sockets, where as this slide talks about Unix-domain sockets. > I feel we should be covering grep and | (pipe), and the whole idea of "the > Linux way" of building things from small units which do their job well. > When I come to think of it, it is not the Linux way, but rather the hurd > way, or the GNU way. Linux is actually monolithyc. :) a lecture about the shell could be used to cover these topics. do you want to prepare one and give it during this 'staying in linux' series? you're welcome to do that. > These are very good slides, in my opinion. I think the repetitive motive > is a good thing in such a lecture, and the previous one was at a good > pace. But I think youshould stress the commands you issue on the demos > more. something like "We now issue ls -l", and not "and look- we see > that...". i'll see if i manage to remember that during the lecture. well, i need to go to the store tommorow... got some 'stuff' to buy for tommorow... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's lecture
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Orr Dunkelman wrote: > One of the small dwarves have loaded the slides to their rightful place -- > haifux.org > http://www.haifux.org/lectures/082-sil1/users-processes-files-and-permissions/ > > Sincerely yours, > Sneezy thanks, sneezy, for your kind help. and if only one more favor for tonight - there is an updated version of the slides, if you could copy it from http://www.actcom.co.il/~choo//users-processes-files-and-permissions.tar.gz that would be great. thanks, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] table-of-contents for 'drivers lecture' - too long?
below is the table-of-contents for the lecture about 'installing drivers'. as it looks now, it is too long for one lecture. i should either cut out stuff, or extend this (as is common for my lectures, it seems ;) ) to a 2-lectures thing again. what sais y'all? please note that there are not yet enough slides about installing drivers that don't come as part of the distro's kernel. - TOC - The linux kernel - Drawing: proc1 proc2proc3 --- kernel driver1 driver2 --- Hardware device1 device2 - hardware diagnostics - lspci - ??? - Device files - what is a device file - the /dev directory - character device and block device - Kernel modules - Listing modules - Loading/Unloading a module - insmod, rmmod - /lib/modules/ - modules dependencies and depmod - /etc/modules.conf - In-Kernel drivers - looking for the driver - what if it's not compiled - kernel compilation - installing the sources - make config, menuconfig, xconfig - choosing what to compile - as a module or in the kernel? - compiling the kernel - installing along-side current kernel - updating the boot loader - booting and caveats - out-of-kernel drivers - source vs. half-source vs. binary - finding the right driver -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] table-of-contents for 'drivers lecture' - too long?
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Alon Altman wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, guy keren wrote: > > > below is the table-of-contents for the lecture about 'installing drivers'. > > as it looks now, it is too long for one lecture. i should either cut out > > stuff, or extend this (as is common for my lectures, it seems ;) ) to a > > 2-lectures thing again. what sais y'all? please note that there are not > > yet enough slides about installing drivers that don't come as part of the > > distro's kernel. > > No problem splitting it in two, but as the exams period is getting closer, > I suggest making the second part on Wednesday. What do you think? i can't make it on wednesday(s). mondays and thursdays are what i can do, and i guess a thursday won't be such a good option... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] slides for monday's 'kernel, modules, drivers' lecture
the slides are temporarily available at: http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/kernel-modules-drivers/ These slides do NOT cover kernel compilation procedures - these will be covered by a seperate lecture, in 2 weeks from now. the current lecture deals with the notions and basic ideas one needs in order to be prepared for the grand kernel compilation task ;) the downloadable tar.gz file is at http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/kernel-modules-drivers.tar.gz hopefully, someone would install it on haifux's web site soon. (by the way, if it's more convinient that i e-mail the tar.z file to someone, please let me know, for the next time to come.) thanks, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] upcoming kernel talk
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > Howdy, folks, > > I'll be giving a talk on the Linux kernel in the February 9th > meeting (Ron and me switched). The question is, which would you rather > hear at that time? > > - What's new in Linux Kernel 2.6 (loosely based on > http://www.mulix.org/lectures/kernel_two_five/kernel_two_five.pdf), or > - Introduction to writing Linux device drivers device drivers in _which_ kernel, exactly? 2.4 or 2.6? is there a difference, at all, in the basic API? i prefer the kernel 2.6 overview, actually. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's 'kernel, modules, drivers' lecture
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 09:10:46PM +0200, guy keren wrote: > > > > the slides are temporarily available at: > > > > http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/kernel-modules-drivers/ > > slide 1 > > - the capitalization of Kernel, Driver and Hardware is a bit > jarring. Same thing for all other slides. i want the terms discussed in the lecture to Stand Out, in the least-intrusive possible manner. if i get more ocmplaints about this, i'll un-capitalize them next time. > slide 2 > > - the kernel can be compiled entirely monolithic (no modules) ok, but this is not what people normally do (and there are features which, as far as i know, can only be compiled as modules). i don't want to get into that - this is not a lecture for people in the embedded systems area, after all :) > slide 8 > > - mention what 'c' and 'b' stand for i explain that in a later slide, so i add 'will be explained later'. > - explain why we have major and minors? hmmm... good idea. i did write what they stand for - just not why they exist. however, this explanation matters more for kernel programmers, and for users, so i'm not sure if it fits into this lecture. won't it be better to leave this for your 'device drivers' lecture? :) > slide 10 > > - mention that for the user, the distrinction between character and > block devices is irrelevant? it's only the driver that cares > (different kernel APIs) ok. thought this is not entirely correct. it reflects on the nature of data tranasfer to/from the device. after all, passing data in blocks is normally faster then passing it in serial (ofcourse, passing in blocks ot a floppy is much much slower then passing serially to a firewire device...). hmmm.. ok, i'll mention this, after all. > slide 11 > > - 2.6 disables module unloading (by default?) i'm focusing on eisting kernels and existing distributions. but ok, i added a reference to 'the next generation kernel'. > slide 13 > > - mention /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build? i'll mention this in the next lecture, when i talk about compiling the kernel and ocmpiling out-of-kernel modules. > slide 16 > > -mention that module options can also be passed on the > insmod/modprobe command line? ok. > - mention how to find which modules options a driver supports? > (modinfo, source) ok. added a slide about 'modinfo'. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for monday's 'kernel, modules, drivers' lecture
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 02:37:28PM +0200, guy keren wrote: > > > > - the capitalization of Kernel, Driver and Hardware is a bit > > > jarring. Same thing for all other slides. > > > > i want the terms discussed in the lecture to Stand Out, in the > > least-intrusive possible manner. > > Then make them bold, or italic, or even _like this_. Capitalizing > inappropriate Words Makes it Look silly. > > > if i get more ocmplaints about this, i'll > > un-capitalize them next time. > > You can count my complaint as two, if you wish ;-) ok, ok. next time. > > > slide 2 > > > > > > - the kernel can be compiled entirely monolithic (no modules) > > > > ok, but this is not what people normally do (and there are features which, > > as far as i know, can only be compiled as modules). > > In the core kernel? few if any. I would consider any such a feature a > bug. Pointers? in redhat 7.3's 2.4.18-17.7.x kernel, 'cryptography support'/'crypto devices' - can't make it allow me to choose 'y'. either 'm' (module) or 'n'(no). or in USb, 'usb audio support'. maybe there is a way to tell it to let me compile it as a module - i don't see how. > > i don't want to get > > into that - this is not a lecture for people in the embedded systems area, > > after all :) > > Compiling a monolithic kernel is the easiest thing to do when you > compile on one machine and install on another - but it's your talk and > your call. and it's beyond the scope. > > > - explain why we have major and minors? > > > > hmmm... good idea. i did write what they stand for - just not why they > > exist. however, this explanation matters more for kernel programmers, and > > for users, so i'm not sure if it fits into this lecture. won't it be > > better to leave this for your 'device drivers' lecture? :) > > Possibly. Your call. or yours :0 > > > - mention that for the user, the distrinction between character and > > > block devices is irrelevant? it's only the driver that cares > > > (different kernel APIs) > > > > ok. thought this is not entirely correct. it reflects on the nature of > > data tranasfer to/from the device. > > And the user cares because? > > > after all, passing data in blocks is > > normally faster then passing it in serial (ofcourse, passing in blocks ot > > a floppy is much much slower then passing serially to a firewire > > device...). hmmm.. ok, i'll mention this, after all. > > For the user, /dev/kmem and /dev/sda are accessed exactly the same > (cat, dd, tail, echo, whatever). It's only for the programmer that the > distinction matters. as i said, just expected throughput... > > > slide 11 > > > > > > - 2.6 disables module unloading (by default?) > > > > i'm focusing on eisting kernels and existing distributions. > > Some distros already have 2.6 in their testing branches. Fedora > "testing" already comes with a 2.6 kernel, AFAICR. *shrug* we,, let them be doomed ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] /var/log/messages
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Cohen, Nahum wrote: > > Where can I find information about the error messages in /var/log/messages go to google, enter the error message between double quotes (like "error 450: no reply bla bla") --guy > > ? > > > > I get all kind of messages and I want to know what they mean. > > For example: > > Jan 19 23:38:58 nahum-x telnetd[24258]: ttloop: peer died: EOF > > Jan 1923:38:58 nahum-x telnetd[24375]: ttloop: read: Connection reset by > > peer > > > > And this one that is much more to worry about: > > Jan 21 02:42:57 nahum-x kernel: eth0: Too much work in interrupt, status > > 8401. > > > > The reason I'm asking is becausefrom time to time my telnetd is like not > > responding ... > > Then I have to run "service xinetd restart" to restart the telnetd. > > > > Any information will be appreciate. > > > > > > Nahum Cohen > > "The road to success is always under construction" (Jim Miller) > > > > > > > > -- > Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) > To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: SIL lectures
i guess the background for the SiL lectures was not discussed on the
mailing list, so i'll just repeat here what was discussed during the W2L
series in Taub 3.
there appeared to be a demand for lectures which are beyond W2L, for
people who have been at the W2L series, and want to continue, but are
intimidated by the normal lectures ("what if i don't know enough to
understand what they talka bout?", "i will fill silly to ask questions
when everyone else seems to understand everything", etc.). there is a gap,
which is too wide, between the level of W2L lectures and the level of
regular club lectures.
thus, we decided to make a short series to cover this gap - not beginner
lectures, but not too advanced, either. something that will eventually
allow people who've been at the W2L series, to join the regular club's
meetings. it was agreed that in these lectures, we'll fix the problem with
the W2L lecture - that of going too fast and not giving any real examples.
this series seems to have taken its own life now. some lectures have too
much material to fit into one meeting, so they are stretched over two
meetings. some other materia, that popped up during those lectures, will
require its own meeting (e.g. 'shell').
and since it looks like people are coming, we'll keep this going on, as
long as there is demand, and as long as people want to give lectures.
and since this series does not harm the regular club's meetings, i don't
think there should be any objections to carrying on.
i hope this makes matters clear.
and remember. claims along the lines of "people should learn on their own,
we shouldn't help them" will be ignored, since the 'we' do not include
those who make these claims.
--
guy
"For world domination - press 1,
or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy
--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)
To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Need help ASAP - Till Tuesday 12:00
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Raichshtain Gilad wrote: > We're doing a project in OS. The project goal is to create a new shell > (from scrtch) and replace the root shell with this new shell. > > We need help with the following issues: and you think someone will "jump for your command" and help you, when you've less then 24 hours to get this thing done? my first advice is: ask for a delay in delivering the project. you're bound not to make it on time. > 1. One of the project goals is to be able to run the shell as the default > shell at Single Mode. Two questions: Which file do I have to update in > order to make it the default shell at Single Mode ? And what kind of > initiations should I do in order for it to work ? > Anything else that might effect our execution in Single mode? assuming that your shell is not compatible with bourne shell, you cannot just replace the normall shell (/bin/sh) - you will be breaking down your entire system (e.g. the shell scripts, which handle launching of the system, will stop working). i am not sure how init knows which shell to run as the default shell for single-user mode. perhaps it uses the shell defined for user 'root' - try changing that iwth the 'chsh' command. do note that you'd better make sure your shell actually works, and that you have a currently open root-shell, before doing this. then try to login as root, see if this works. if not - you'll be able to use the still open root shell to change root to using the previous shell again (you did check which shell this is before making the switch - didn't you?). otherwise, you'll have to read the source code of 'init', in order to find which shell it uses for single-user mode. if this is a hrd-coded value, you're out of luck (unless you install a modified 'init' binary on your system) > 2. We have to package our project using RPM. Does anyone have any > simple sample for spec file that we can use? did you try searching for one on the internet? if not, now is the time... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] gcc -pg, but no gmon.out
(what does haifux got to do with lkml anyway? :P~~~ we deserve our own alias!) On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Shachar Tal wrote: > I have a somewhat complex piece of code that needs profiling. It is > composed of numerous Makefiles. I added "-pg -g" to the compiler > parameters, but when the resulting binary runs, gmon.out is not created. did you also pass '-pg' to the link command? or, if you use ld directly, did you tell it to use /lib/gcrt.o and -lc_p? 'pinfo gprof', then read about 'compiling', i've been reading from that page as i type... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] gcc -pg, but no gmon.out
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Shachar Tal wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:53:18 +0200 (IST) > From: Shachar Tal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Shachar Tal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Shachar Tal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Haifux] gcc -pg, but no gmon.out > > On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Nadav Har'El wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2004, Shachar Tal wrote about "Re: [Haifux] gcc -pg, but no > > gmon.out": > > > /usr/bin/gcc -o ../../run/linux/prerelease/agct.gprof > > > -L../../lib/linux/prerelease -lagct -lagsc -lagdb -lagdm -lutos -lutll > > > -lagrp -lagsi -lagmi -lcmag -lcmrp -lagrp -lagsi -lagmi -lcmcn -lcmrp > > > -lagrp -lagsi -lagmi -lagsc -lagoi -lcmrp -luttc -lcmrp -lcmcn -lcmnp > > > -lutlg -lutos -lcmag -lagom -lutos -lagdb -lagoi -lcmrp -luttc -lagsi > > > -lagdb -lagoi -lcmrp -lutos-ldl -lpthread -lm -lnsl > > > ../../../../shared/3rdparty/lib/tcl/linux/libtcl8.3.a > > > /usr/lib/libstdc++.a > > > > My guess was right then - I don't see a "-pg" anywhere on the linking line... > > > > Or do I need to get new glasses? :) > > No, but I do. I pasted from the build output file from before adding -pg > to the linkage. It's there, trust me :) please paste it anyway. when you say "trust me" - i don't. neither should you trust yourself. show us the actual command, as it gets executed. when you ask people for help, 'trust me' is something you should ommit from your dictionary. after all, we trust you to be able to use gprof to begin with, and see where that got us to ;) (no, i'm not mocking your ability to run a tool - just your israeli habbit ;) ) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] gcc -pg, but no gmon.out
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Shachar Tal wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, guy keren wrote: > > > please paste it anyway. when you say "trust me" - i don't. neither should > > you trust yourself. show us the actual command, as it gets executed. > > there you go: > > /usr/bin/gcc -o ../../run/linux/prerelease/agct.gprof -pg > -L../../lib/linux/prerelease -lagct -lagsc -lagdb -lagdm -lutos -lutll > -lagrp -lagsi -lagmi -lcmag -lcmrp -lagrp -lagsi -lagmi -lcmcn -lcmrp > -lagrp -lagsi -lagmi -lagsc -lagoi -lcmrp -luttc -lcmrp -lcmcn -lcmnp > -lutlg -lutos -lcmag -lagom -lutos -lagdb -lagoi -lcmrp -luttc -lagsi > -lagdb -lagoi -lcmrp -lutos-ldl -lpthread -lm -lnsl > ../../../../shared/3rdparty/lib/tcl/linux/libtcl8.3.a > /usr/lib/libstdc++.a ok. now come the nit-peak questions: 1. you use 'gcc', and yet you link 'libstdc++'. why don't you use g++ then? are you trying to avoid linking with the shared g++ library? 2. i assume that '-lutos-ldl' is just a typo in your copy-paste, and that it actually means '-lutos -ldl' (i.e. an extra space). is this correct? 3. you should put the system libraries _last_, i.e. "-lpthread -lm -lnsl" should come _after_ anything else (including libstdc++). 4. can you run 'ldd' on the resulting libary, and send the output? some thing that are probably not related to your current problem: 4. you link the _entire_ c++ library into your code? why? 5. you have many libraries specified twice and thrice on the command line. what for? if that's due to tripple circular dependencies problems, then that's baaad. i guess its code you inherrited from someone else... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] slides for tommorow
quite late, but i have my excuses :0 the slides are temporarily available at http://www.actcom.co.il/~choo/kernel-compilation/ if anyone manages to send comments, i _might_ be able to try and fix things tommorow - can't promise, though... see y'all tommorow, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] SiL "installing software" (was: Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust)
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Adir Abraham wrote: > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: > > > The best thing we can do is explain them how they can install more > > software, update their system, etc. Otherwise: > > Finally I agree with you. I'll say even more - we can show them a whole > process of installation in different ways (RPM, compilation, sh, GUI and > other friends). I'm sure that we covered some of the chapters, but not in > one "installation" lecture (software installation). ienvisiona.freeSiLSlot.filledup...with "Installing new software - from A to Z" anyone wants to take on this? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] SiL "installing software" (was: Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust)
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Alon Altman wrote: > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, guy keren wrote: > > > ienvisiona.freeSiLSlot.filledup...with > > "Installing new software - from A to Z" > > > > anyone wants to take on this? > > I think the Basic Admin lecture of W2L covers software installation > reasonably, and there's no reason for another lecture on the topic, > especially not in SiL. the pace, the pace it's too fast during W2L, and too few demonstrations. what i envision, is taking several types of applications and showing how they are installed. i would take: 1. an RPM application with dependencies... 2. an SRPM too? 3. one of the 'configure/make/make install' applications. 4. sun's or IBM's jdk. this includes setting PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH... 5. perhaps something coming from a project's CVS? there is no need to know much about CVS itself in order to do that, and people do get the occasional "oh, this bug making the application crash for you, was solved in CVS head, try it". in each case i will show how i find it on the web, download (preparing a previously downloaded copy a-la the "hachinoti imi merosh" method), install, and configure. i will include showing how i create an icon for the application on the desktop, if there is none, or a handy shell alias to run it, if it has a complicated command-line. i still remember what it was like, to install software, when i had very little experience. it's in-ti-mi-da-ting, and when something fucks up, it was hard to know what to do. after seeing a few examples, people will probably feel better regarding the whole issue, and be more willing to experiment on their own. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] comment on yesterday's kernel compilation lecture slides
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > Just one, but an important one: when installing a distribution kernel, > you never want to do > > rpm -Uvh /path/to/kernel-source-2.4.20-8.i386.rpm > > but rather > > rpm -ivh ... aren't you confusing kernel-2.4.20-8.i386.rpm with kernel-source-2.4.20-8.i386.rpm? i don't think that installing a _source_ RPM would modify the boot loader's config file. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] The digital darkroom with GIMP
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Yoni Rabkin Katzenell wrote: > Allow me to propose a lecture idea: "The digital darkroom with > GIMP". The lecture will concentrate on photographic techniques using the > all mighty GIMP. hear yee hear yee! just a question, thought - are you sure a single lecture would be enough? i, for one, know hardly a thing about half the terms you mentioned in your post - and there are various other things you did not mention, wihch i'd like to know (e.g. how to get rid of 'red-eyes' effects, and other more 'down-to-earth' and practical examples). my hunch tells me that it'll take at least 2 lectures to cover this topic on a basic level. are you up to this 3-lecture series? ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] mounting problems
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Amir Spivak wrote: > Hi all, > I have RH 7.0. the server currently has 2 HD's which I wanted to squeeze into one > big HD in order to use it from now on, on a RAID1 system. > I have cloned the first original HD using Norton Ghost 2003 to the new HD, on the > remaining space I've cloned the 2nd original HD into a new partition Ghost created. > now when I want to mount the new partition it doesn't let me do it. > any ideas as to how to mount it? no, because you didn't write enough details: the device is hda? hdb? a SCSI disk? which partition contains the '1st disk', and which contains the '2nd disk'? what command _exactly_ did you type? what error message _exactly_ did you get? note: linux still does not tell you "i don't want to tell you mount this partition, because i don't like you". -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] mounting problems
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Amir Spivak wrote: > the device is hda3(2nd HD) and the command is mount with every possible > syntax there is, it just hangs forever without mounting it. > the 1st disk is hda1 and hda7, hda6 is the swap partition. (better CC back to the list - better chances that you'll get a proper answer). hmmm hmmm. beats me... i would try to perform a file-system check on /dev/hda3, and see what that shows. something like: fsck /dev/hda3 see if it tells you whether the file-system is there. perhaps ghost did not put the file system the way you wanted it to. i assume that the 2nd disk used to have a single partition? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Preliminary version of Multimedia slides
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Alon Altman wrote: > Hi, > I have a preliminary version of the Multimedia lecture slides available > online at http://alon.wox.org/multimedia-lecture/ > > Please take the time to read and comment. 1. in the 'playing movies' slide, you talk about codecs, without explaining what this word means. 2. in 'the CD writing process' slide, better add one-line about what an ISO image is. 3. when using mkisofs, i suggest you show the command line(s) you use to get: 1. a proper CD image with long file names. 2. a proper CD image with case-sensitive names (we've been bitten by this at work). 3. mention these problems otherwise, people will be surprised by the resulting CDs... 4. when mounting a CD image, i assume people need to first create the /mnt/cdimage directory? if so - state that explicitly in the slide. 5. in 'running cdrecord', 'cdrecord is program' <== add an 'a'. also, perhaps mention which writing speed one should use to avoid buffer underruns? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] The Haifux logo
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Eli Billauer wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > I don't want to start another voting, and we all know who the winner is > > (and I'm happy with that one). > > > > But I think that the text on the logo is somewhat redundant when it > > appears in the site. On a T-shirt it's in place, but for the site I > > think that a clean Tux with Haifa's coast will be much nicer. Not really > > important, but it always catches my eyes. > > > > Any objections? > > > > Eli > > I agree that there is too much text for a logo, but I am cannot make up my > mind between having the picture -only logo you described, and adding just > the word "Haifux" to it. i think that just leaving 'Haifux' in there is a good idea (i already said that to alon, as a pre-conditoin for voting for his logo ;) ). > BTW, it seems like we can only make up our minds about the English > spelling. Some people pronounce and write Haifux with HE, and other with > HET. i always called it haifux, because i thought about it in english (and because the name was originally conceived in english e-mails). if we were spanish, we'd use the spanish letter that sounds something between 'he' and 'het'. to make a proper translation to hebrew, indeed, we should use a 'het', since this is a weld of 'Haifa' and 'Linux', and in hebrew, Haifa is spelled with a 'het'. hmmm should we take a vote on this issue too? -- guy "Lucy - prepare the secret ballots!" -- Peppermint Patty, "Race for your life, Charlie Brown!" (1977). -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Help with YACC despretly needed!
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, MailUser1 wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm trying to code a simple compiler for a simple language I'm
> designing, I've debugged anything I could from g++ "useful"compile
> errors, but now after I have screened out all those errors, i get this
> strange ouput from g++:
please repeat the following 3 times before going to bed: "it's not
strange - it's a bug.". then take a deep breath, and then start debugging
it like you debug any C program.
> g++ -o simplang main.cc y.tab.c lang_funcs.cpp
> /usr/ccs/bin/yaccpar: In function `int yyparse()':
> /usr/ccs/bin/yaccpar:274: parse error before `(' token
> /usr/ccs/bin/yaccpar:316: parse error before `(' token
first, i see that you're using solaris? hmmm ;)
second, did you look inside the y.tab.c source file at the given line
numbers, and looked for the bug?
remember that yacc takes C source you write in the grammar file, and
embeds it inside a C source file which it generates. only then it runs the
compiler on the source, and thus only at this stage it will complain about
syntax errors in this embedded C code. your code hasn't suddenly vanished
- it has been copied verbatim into the C source that yacc generates.
> does anyone know where the hack those error come out from!? I've
> scanned my grammer file etc, and everything seems ok,
by the w, what does this 'etc' above mean? what did you do other then
scanning the grammer file?
by the way, your compilation command seems to be missing the necessary
libraries that yacc provides...
--
guy
"For world domination - press 1,
or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy
--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)
To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] slides for shell lecture
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: > http://www.haifux.org/lectures/92-sil/ > > Your comments are most welcome. 1. in 'Shell - which shell?' - it's a good idea to mention that bash appears in almost all 'free software' systems (linux, *bsd). it does not exist in most commercial unices - and people comming to SiL are likely to have to use other unices sometime, and wonder where bash has gone to. 2. the 'changing the current shell' example looks confusing. the 'bash' command _looks like_ it brings a line with 'tcsh' written in it. better add some command in the middle, to seperate the shell switches. that command would better be one showing we're indeed working under the shell we just switched to. can't figure such a command now, though... also, the name 'changing the current shell' is miss-leading. we're not changing the shell, but rather executing a sub-shell. thus, it's a good idea to also state that when we want to move back to the former shell, we need to exit from the current shell using the 'exit' command. hmmm... so here is the example: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ bash bash-2.05a$ echo "i am in bash now" i am in bash now bash-2.05a$ exit exit [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ echo "and back to tcsh" and back to tcsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ --- i am putting the above example under the public domain - you may copy this example to your slides if you wish ;) 3. in 'Every time you run it', what does the word 'runcom' mean? never heard of this strange word. 4. in 'Where are my runcom files' - those 'runcom' files are _usually_ under the home directory, but for some programs they are under some dot directory found in the home directory. so better add the word 'usually' to the first bullet. again - where did you come with the word 'runcom' from? is it from somewhere in bash's manuals? 5. in 'Every time the shell starts - example' - you're showing different examples for tcsh and for bash - is that on purpose? it is a bit confusing - better show the same example in both shells. this is also important, because the 'source' command in bash is actually '.' (a single dot). and since most Linux users use bash, it'll be a shame to neglect them. also, after the 'vi .cshrc' command, you might want to add a line stating something like: (...add the line "alias lll 'echo Yehezkel'" at the bottom...) otherwise, the slide alone makes no sense. 6. in 'Sourcing rc files' - the title does not match the text. perhaps rename it to something like 'Caution when sourcing rc files', and add two bullets at the beginning of the slide: * If you modify an application's rc file, and make bad syntactic errors, you might be un-able to run the application again until you fix this rc file... * ... which kind of makes things hard, if you messed up your shell's rc file and logged out before checking it. (modify the style to your liking). when placed after these bullets, your current bullets will make more sense. 7. the 'alias' slide's examples stretch out of the screen on my 1024x768 screen's display - and the horizontal scroll-bar is disabled... and by the way, i'd think of switching the different examples to bash's syntax, since probably all the listeners are using bash, not tcsh. 8. in the second 'alias' slide, when programming, it's customary to use full paths to commands (the Posix standard defines where different basic commands are supposed to be). 9. in the 'echo' slide, you use shell variables, which you did not even mention until now - and you don't mention them until many slides later. perhaps change the examples then? or talk about variables first? by the way, there are shell variables as well as environment variables. 10. in 'hold fast to your output' - the '$(command)' variant is specific to bash - tcsh does not support it. this makes it all very confusing. i think the best solution is to choose one shell (bash), and after telling people that there are different shells, state you're giving all examples only for the bash shell. the lecture is already too long for a single meeting anyway. 11. in 'pipeline', the buffering works the other way around - when outputing to the terminal, output is line-buffered. when outputing to a pipe (or a file, or anything which is not a terminal), the output is block-buffered (i.e. larger chunks). 12. in the 'apropos | grep' slide, better place 1-2 empty lines between the end of the output of the first command, and the second command. otherwise, it looks like everything is part of the output of the first command. 13. in 'which shell am i using now', did you come up with such a complicated (and error-prone) command on purpose? better replace this with: ps -p $$ | awk
Re: [Haifux] The slides are on the web
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Erez Hadad wrote: > The slides for my Monday lecture about the 2.6 sheduler are on the web, > available through my home page: > http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~erezh anyone mind translating these slides into a more portable format, so we, the common people, can view them? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] proposal for lectures (SiL + regular) IP + libpcap + netlink +...
i thought about taking over the free lecture 105 (19-july-2004), and give a lecture, which decided to name itself 'IP injected, inspected, detected, infected' - about tools for injecting IP packets (raw sockets), inspecting IP (ethereal and co., libpcap), detecting (filtering in the later two), infecting (linux kernel's netlink)... in order to allow everyone to pacticipate, i suggest giving, in the SiL series, a re-run of my old IP protocols lectures (lectures 16 + 18). i suggest giving those during june, so they'll be a little before the new lecture 105. anyone objects? suggests? thanks eli, for illuminating the path, and thank you bob, for an obvious reason ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] clarification regarding IP-related lectures
since there's a little confusion on the web site about the upcoming IP protocol(s) related lectures, and until this is fixed, i thought i'd post a clear explanation. there are 3 lectures planned regarding IP-protocol(s): first, there are two SiL lectures, about the IP protocol family (part 1 will be on 31/5/2004, and part 2 will be on 28/6/2004). these are actually re-runs of lectures 16 and 18 (see the old lecture slides on the web site), and will cover the working of the IP protocol (which makes the internet tick) and its family (TCP, UDP, routing protocols, a little about higher-level protocols if we have enough time). then, there will be a new lecture about "doing things" at the IP protocol level - sniffing, creating IP packets, hijacking IP traffic (and NOT for criminal purposes, mind you). this lecture will be given on 19/7/2004, and is intended for both SiL and non-SiL audiance (i.e. in order to be able to understand this lecture, one needs to know about the IP protocol family in the level that will be covered in the previous 2 "IP protocol family" lectures). this lecture will also require knowledge of programming in C, since most tools that will be mentioned are to be used from within a C program. (the SiL lectures do not deal with programming at all, and do not require any background in programming). hopefully the titles on the web site will be fixed before the first lecture's date is due (in 2 weeks, *hint *hint*...) ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Kernel Guru
On Sat, 22 May 2004, GILA wrote: > Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:21:34 +0200 > From: GILA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Haifux] Linux Kernel Guru > > Our client, who develops software system, which ensure > optimally-performing business applications, is seeking: > > Linux Kernel Guru > > § At least 2 years of in depth experience in Linux Kernel (2.4) & User modes, > including: Modifying, adjusting and building the kernel code. > § Extensive knowledge & experience in networking layers 2,3 (specifically IP), > and developing products such as: bridges, routers, load balancers, firewalls > § At least 3 years in C/C++ development > § Implementing and tuning device drivers (specifically performance wise) > § BSc in computer science- a must. > > Send your CV to e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Tel- 03-7678999 it would have been helpfull if you wrote what area of israel your client is located. you wouldn't want someone who lives in eilat to apply for a job in tel-hai if the person is not interested in moving to metula ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Call for lecture ... ahm...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, Orr Dunkelman wrote: > Hi everybody, > > Due to personal reasons, Baruch Even will not be able to give his lecture > on Monday. it's a sign from above - my ip-iidi (injected, inspected, detected, infected) just turned two a two-lecture set yesterday, with the first half of the slides ready, so i can have IP-iidi part 1 this monday, and part 2 on the 16th (as was originally planned). note that this is a hostile take-over, not a swap oportunity ;) baruch - 3rd time's i-scream! -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] IMP: ethereal GUI during the lecture today?
i forgot to ask - could someone give me access to run ethereal (X window) as root on a linux machine during the lecture today? i have access to a tethereal root maching, but i'll want to demonstrate things with ethereal's GUI. if not, i'll try to prepare some capture files, and show them without root access - but that means the demonstration will be less efficient. thanks, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] details regarding monday's Haifux lecture
the slides are ready - they deal with two issues - working with raw sockets, and working with iptables+ip-queue+netlink. i thought of giving a more useful example but everything seemed to get into too many details to fit into the lecture's time (e.g. dns manipulation code). the slides will probably be available tonight or tommorow morning on haifux's site. see you on monday, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Collaboration request
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Ilya R wrote: > Hi again, > I'm currently working on a new linux forum at www.pc-spot.co.il. The > forum will be mostly newbie orriented and will be accompanied by varios > guides, all in hebrew. did you look at www.penguin.org.il? perhaps thinking of contributing there? note: i'm not affiliated with that site - i just think it has a similar goal, and a lot of ground already covered. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: Is this list dead? Do we wish to have another w2l/instaparty plans meeting?
> Adir Abraham wrote: > > >You are right. > > > >Well, tomorrow is an option as well. I thought that it would be too > >late for such an alert. If it is possible for you, we can meet at: > > > >5) 17:30 (if you want earlier - not before 17:00). > >6) after the lecture is over. > > > >I vote for number 5, then. (17:30. If you go for 17:00, I am for it as > >well). Ifit falls, I go for 1 as before. > > > >Adir. (sorry for the silence - had a busy time, still do for another couple of days). i'll try to make it there tommorow, if errands end early enough. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Blitz Lecture Finished
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> The Blitz Lecture is now finished:
>
> http://shlomif.il.eu.org/lecture/W2L/Blitz/slides/
>
> Please read it and comment.
first, a general note: we must decide if linux is a 'he' or a 'she' -
there is a lot of confusion about this throughout the slides. i suggest
using a 'she', since linux is an operating system, and then sticking to it
across the slides.
slide "0" (table of contents) - you should emphasize that people don't
need to learn _everything_ in order to use linux. they can use linux also
with only part of the knowledge, and then the more they learn, the more
things they can do, and the faster they can do them. thus, i would replace
the phrase "of what an experienced user needs to know in order to use
linux" with "of what an experienced user can do with linux".
also, about the command line, instead of saying "because some tasks in
linux can only be done using it" with only the second part (i.e. "because
once you get used to it, you find it faster to do a lot of things via the
command line").
slide 1 (intro) - regrarding X windows system - instead of "this system is
strong enough to allow working on a remote workstation through the
network" (which is now possible with windows too), say that "this system
natively works in a manner allowing working both locally and remotely over
the network, with no need for extra strong servers and expensive
software".
slide 2 - "KDE and X-windows", better replace this with "X-windows, KDE,
Gnome and friends" - and then add a bullet about gnome saying "Gnome is
another type of desktop, competing with KDE". and then add another bullet
"and what about working with no heavy-duty desktop -
just simple windows? this is also possible". the emphasize should be on
choice and pluralism - and it'll be up to the entire lecture to
demonstrate and explain why choice and pluralism are so important.
then add a bullet: "lets use KDE as an example" - which will explain why
the rest of the 2.X slides only mention KDE.
slide 2.4.1 (klipper) - replace "hagalim" with "hakelim".
slide 3 (linux applications parallel to the windows world) - never state a
list of applications as a 'definite list'. for example, in web browsers,
its "firefox, mozilla, konqueror and many others". in IDEs, also mention
eclipse (for java). regarding games, better call those that come with the
distribution "mischakonim" instead of "mischakim" - they are much smaller
then what people usually call games in the windows world (half life,
unreal, civilization etc).
slide 4 (the shell) - really, this is not 'masof hapkudot' - just clal it
"chalon hapkuda" - as is commonly used in hebrew books. also, on the 3rd
bullet, it should not be "af al pi chen". it should be "benosaf".
slide 4.1 (opening a terminal window) - without mentioning the word
'shell' - no one will understand why there is a sea shell drawn on the
terminal window launch button. perhaps this can be added verbally by the
lecturer - if they'll remember this. if presented properly, this might
sqeeze a few laughs from the audiance - which is also a good thing.
by the way, a curious question - which distributions (and in what
versions) removed the terminal window button from the toolbar?
slide 4.4. (nice features of the shell) - add 2 more bullets:
- "typing ctrl-r allows us searching backwards in the command history"
(need to show at least one non-trivial shell feature).
- "there are many other fetures that the shell supports..."
slide 4.5 (basic stuff of the file system) - first, change the title to
"ma'arechet hakvatzim" (the current title is written in rather broken
hebrew). then, in the first bullet, i'll add a sarcastic remark. something
like:
"linux me'argenet et hakvatzim shela be madrichim (directories) - kama
maftiaa". the reason is that everybody knows this is how it's done in
windows too, so if we state the obvious we should not make people think we
think this is an extra special feature. some self-humor can be helpfull
here (and in other places too).
also, don't use the word 'meta' here ('meta-madrich'? people will lose
track of what we're talking about). just call it 'hamadrich nekuda' -
people will get the idea that it's just a symbolic name.
also, the sentence "im lifnei hakol ba '/' az ..." should be put on its
own bullet.
slide 4.6 (common commands) - first bullet, "lehalan mispar pkudot shel
nefotzot" - the word "shel" should be deleted - or, if you indeed meant to
write 'shell' - then write 'maatefet', as you did in other places.
also, replace "ma sheiusbar bahemshech" with "davar seiusbar bahemshech".
also, since 'command' is 'she', all the descriptions should be put in
feminine form ("ls - metziga tochen shel madrichim", etc.).
regarding less, better write something like: "less - me'afsheret ledafdef
bekovetz masach achrei masach". forget the "input" word here - it'll only
confuse users, because we didn't even talk about pipes and redirection.
thus, in the bullets abo
Re: [Haifux] Lecture Offer - Ami Chayun on "Adventure in Pixie Land"
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: > Hello people, > > We are starting the scheduling of the next season's lectures. Ami > Chayun (Beyond Security Ltd. http://www.securiteam.com) > has offered to give the following lecture. Would you like to hear it? as long as this builds on top of eli's "boot disks de-mistified" lecture of old, this would be good (i.e. if it's going to repeat everything eli showed and add a little more - i won't come. if it's going to assume people have heard eli's lecture or read the slides - then it'd be interesting for me). > Lecture---Details--- > Lecture name: Adventure in pixie land (name not final. any suggestions?) > Excerpt: In this lecture we will build step-by-step a PXE (network boot) > loaded skeleton linux system. This will provide an example on how to build > Linux (almost) from scratch and provide an x-ray of a typical initrd. > Applications? Diskless linux and music player machine in the shower are just > two... -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] IPv6 and Linux - a suggestion for an advanced lecture
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Adir Abraham wrote: > Hi all, > > This can be very relevant for an advanced lecture for the w2l. > Comments? certainly not for _w2l_. this can come as part of the normal club lectures. newcomers to linux would certainly not be interested in learning about something so not-immediately-useful to users. for the normal club meetings - this is a good topic. --guy > > Adir. > > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:50:27 +0200 > From: Dani Arbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Adir Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Haifux] Re: About the Linux Day > > Adir, > 2) I was wondering if the club would like me to give a lecture about ipv6 > and > linux for the advanced lectures. > Dani -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] proposed lecture(s) - linux VFS and writing a real file-system
i was wondering if these will be of interest. in the past month i've been working on writing a silly file-system, and found that there is no good document (or book?) explaining the gory details (or does 'understanding the linux kernel' cover this _properly_?), so i that giving a proper intro would be interesting. i can see these topics: 1. the linux VFS - how it works, how it interacts with file-systems, etc. this can be covered in a single lecture, beause it's a bit superficial. 2. writing a linux file-system - with my silly STAMFS example (hopefully it will be working _properly_ by the time i have to write the slides). this might require two lectures if we want to cover the details - unless i make it more superficial, and people read some source-code to get the gory details, sohuld they be interested? i don't see how 2 can be given without 1. then again, perhaps 1 can't be given without talking about the file system related system calls (unless i assume everyone's familiar with those). anyone has an opinion? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Proposed lecture
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Zeev Halevi wrote: > I want to propose a lecture on a free software project called OpenNMS: > http://www.opennms.org > http://sourceforge.net/projects/opennms/ > > It's an amazing "enterprise-grade" Network management framework that is > becoming a significant playerin the NMS market. > > We in Vyyo use it for our NMS solution and we look for a way to share > our experience with others. hear hear! (even if it _is_ a java project) as long as you get into technical details (not only what it can do, but how it's done). note, however, that you're tackling an issue that was never discussed in haifux - NMS systems. as such, you should assume lack of background knowledge in this area by the listeners, so you'll have to talk about basic principles, assuming you don't want to be too shallow. we're quite happy to get lecture-serieses too ;) > I'll be in the lecture tomorrow so we can talk about it. this is haifux - there's no need to make formal discussions. you propose somehting, several people say "i want to hear that", you get the next slot assigned (or later if you need more time), and that's it. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Haifux] Proposed lecture
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Zeev Halevi wrote: > How about: > First hour: What is SNMP, how does it work , typical usages, mibs etc. - > technical > Second hour: What can OpenNMS do for large system administrators. i guess this sounds better ;) > I want to use this lecture as an opportunity to "promote" OpenNMS among > NMS guys and systemadministrators - nothing commercial, just people from > the OpenNMS mailing list who want to hear more,so I expect some people > with SNMP background will attend. we'll see about that, i guess. just take into account that most people in the club are not system administrators of large sites, nor NMS people (at least as far as i know - perhaps we should run surveys in the club to find out), but perhaps this lecture will attract new people - if we also manage to publish it to real sys-admins and NMS people. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Proposed Lecture - Linux USB Subsystem Layer (in Video4Linux Context)
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Rami Rosen wrote: > Hello all, > > I wonder if the this may be of interest to Haifux members. [..snip..] > > topics : > > > A short Intro on the Universal Serial Bus > (USB Host Controllers (usb-ohci and usb-uhci) ; > Enumeration and Device Descriptors ; What is a URB ? USB2) > > Descriptors:Info in /proc/bus/usb/devices (Endpoints; parameters like > > MxPS,Configurations,etc.) > > Vidoe4Linux drivers (focusing on PWC and Ov511 families) > > Hotplug of usb devices [..snip..] > > I must warn that most of these topics are purely technical, and usually are NOT > needed in real life except if you are working with some Embedded Systems > /developing USB drivers yes, yes, yes! we _want_ technical lectures. dying for technical lectures. if you need two lectures to supply the material - we'll be very happy (e.g. if you can give a 2nd talk about actually developing USB drivers, for kernel programmers, that will be lovely). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] 3/11 - what hour are rooms available?
i understand the two lectures begin at 18:30 . since we need to make sure everything is ready, we'll want to get into the room 30-60 minutes earlier then this. thus, are the rooms available that early? is one of them available early enough? thanks, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: [IBM HRL TALK] The Pentium Architecture - Support for Multiprocessing Operating Systems
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Eli Billauer wrote: > I vote YES. > > Eli and so do i. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] problem configuring printer via network
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Aviv Goll wrote: > hi all, > I am using mandrake 10.0 and I'm connected with LAN to my roomate's > computer which unfortunatly runs XP. we're successfully sharing internet > connection so I know the network exist. > the modem is connected to my roomate's computer and mandrake didn't asked > for any speciel configuration for sharing that connection. > I wanted to share my roomate's printer as well but I was unsuccessful so > far... > the printer is HP printer/scanner 1200 (or hppsc120) it's configured as > "shared" on the XP. I tried mandrake's auto detect unsuccessfuly, > I tried webmin unsuccessfuly > and I had a partial success using WWW CUPS admin tool which told me he had > recieved "Connection failed with error NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED". a-ha! this last one has a future. did you define a domain on the machine which shares the printer? or a workgroup? you might need to supply the domain or workgroup name as part of the user-name when doing the login (i.e. in the printer configuration). try something like domain\\user (or workgroup\\user) - note the double backslash. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: [W2L] [CALL FOR LECTURE] Using Windows in a Linux World
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Alon Altman wrote: > On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: > > > Hi people, > > > > During the last Welcome to Linux series I got a lot of questions regarding > > configuration of samba, shared printers, sharing folders etc. > > Someone even asked specifically for a lecture aboutsamba. > > > > Those questions come from people who try to configure a mixed environmen > > in a local network. As you may well know, Linux usually drips into > > organizations one server at a time, so a mixed environment is a problem > > in private houses aswell as in organizations beginning to incorporate Linux. > > > > This is a call for a Haifux lecture (and lecturer) intended for system > > administrators, which will cover the said "Using Windows in a Linux > > world" topics. > > > > (Do not confuse with AlonAltman's "Using Linux in a Windows World" > > lecture - http://haifux.org/lectures/49/ ) > > Why not have a rewrite of that old lecture with more information about > samba, and less hype? I can rewrite that lecture if wanted. i think the idea is to concentrate on file-sharing and printer-sharing. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Orna's lecture - can someone approve ?
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Yoni wrote: > Can someone approve the lecture is held at lecture room #3 ofthe > computer department, and that it takes place at 16:30 ... > Don't wanna go there for free :p > Yoni. as you probably saw, the lecture was held at lecture room #3 of the computer science department, but it took place at 18:30, not 16:30. in general, the lecture date written on the web site is the official and one true date. it is very rare that we cancel lectures without a long (>24 hours) prior notice via the mailing list (perhaps once a year ;). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] What's gnucash ?
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Yoni wrote: > Will the lecture tomorrow be any good to a linux newbie ? > Thanks. i'd assume it will be - if you're interested in managing money issues using your computer. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: "Emergency" lecture about winbind
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Shachar Raindel wrote: > OK, though I will not be available for the next month or so (until I > will get settled in the IDF). I might teach the rest of linux-sup > group what I did, so they will be able to lecture. I will keep you > updated. that's ok - what's the hurry? it's not as if someone is going to die if you don't give this lecture right now. when you find out your future schedule and know when you can give this lecture - give us a ring, and you'll be scheduled for a _free_ slot ;) -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: c with a spoon and pointer arithmetic
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Yoni wrote:
> Thanks for the answers :-)
> If i understand correctly, the free function might look something like this:
> void free(pointer) {
> // gets start address, and size of memory to free to the os
> letGoOfMemory(pointer-1,*(pointer-1));
> }
> do i understand correctly?
more or less, yes.
we'll be having a lecture that'll talk about these issues in greater depth
- look at the next SiL lecture on haifux, at
http://www.haifux.org/lectures/68/ (it's a re-run of an old lecture,
hence the low number). you can also read the tutorial that lecture is
based on - there's a link at the 'references' slide of that lecture.
--
guy
"For world domination - press 1,
or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy
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Re: [Haifux] boot errors
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, yakoub wrote: > pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5 > pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5 go to google, type the error message between double-quotes, and see what it gives you. in many cases, this works. sometimes you'll need to clip the error string and search for part of it to get results. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] regarding monday's "Unix memory management" lecture
i took a look at the slides, and i realize there's a need for two lectures to discuss everything. Thus, i expect to talk about half the material on monday (probably up to and including slide 17). we'll schedule the second part to one of the coming SiL lecture slots. see there whomever comes, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] [IBM HRL TALK] Overview of AIX Kernel
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > The next IBM Haifa Research Lab Linux Study Group talk will take place > on Tuesday, 05/04/2005, at 1400 at IBM HRL > (http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com). Anyone interested in attending should > contact me privately for arrangements. > > Title: Overview of AIX kernel is this a continuation of the meeting that took place a month or two back? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Training timetable
(i know i'm not orna, but i felt like responding anyway). On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Yael Vaya wrote: > Hi Orna, > > According to the kids they are avaliable for training from 10.07.05 > (untill July they are on camp, tyol shnati etc). They can make it Friday > mornings, and during the week at the afternoon's (even from 18:00), hope > this is ok. > > Would you like to have one hour of training and one extra hour of > practice each week? this will be indeed a good idea. by the way, will they have access to the computers outside these "formal" hours during this summer? i think this would be desireable. as for the schedule itself - i'll leave it up to orna and you to set it all up. on the matter of once or twice a week that was mentioned in the past - i guess that it'll have to be twice a week, in order for us to complete everything before the next year starts (1st of september still?) - at least for the pupils. for the teachers this might be less convenient (they don't realy have a free summer-time, with families and preparations for next year). > The Tel Hai students, Ariela and Assaf, may be able > to be in-charge of the practice hour. actually, i think this would be very good. this way we'll also be able to get to know them (the tel-hai students, that is) - which could help in the future of this project. this can help us know what they know or don't know, and help them master what's needed. by the way, lets move the discussion(s) of hatzor from haifux to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - so people who are not interested won't have to endure the "noise". anyone who's interested can subscribe by sending an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and follow the instructoins in the response letter. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] ascii art lightning URL
for anyone interested, the short html page for the ASCII art light, is found at http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/lightning-ascii-art/lightning-ascii-art.html just note: the tetris game is based on the winner in 'best game' category of the IOCCC contest of 1989 (go to http://www0.us.ioccc.org/years.html and search for 'tromp'). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Real-time write on *ANY* filesystem
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Eli Billauer wrote: It turns out that it's not a FAT issue, but that the same problem occurs on ext3 systems as well. I've written a small program to test the delays between writes, and the results are not very encouraging. Specially when the disk getsfull (it always does, doesn't it?). i don't think it's the "disk gets full". i think its "the page-cache gets full". try this: get a partition that is already quite full, and run the test on it. you will not see this problem. or: get a very very large partition (e.g. 30GB free space) and run it there - you'll notice the problem when the ammount of data you wrote _lately_ gets large. the page cache of the linux system is, by default, tuned for overall throughput, not for worst-case-per-I/O. i don't think that changing the elevator algorithm will help. things i would try: 1. what muli said, using O_DIRECT would help, but turn all the I/O into synchronous mode, which might give you a too slow throughput (can't tell without trying). to overcome this, your will need a combination of application-based buffering and direct/raw I/O. e.g. taking the source of mbuffer, making sure it works with O_DIRECT, or even with a 'raw' device (available on some linux distributions, not all). yes, this is a problem with the linux system (as a whole). --guy In my opinion, this should concert anyone who want to use a Linux box for storing a data stream (audio, video, whatever). I've attached the source of the program I used. Basically, it loops on writing 32kB chunks of data to a file, creating a list of number telling how much time (in microseconds) elapsed since the last loop (to stdout). There are two modes of testing: One is to let it write as fast as possible, and the second is to put delays between writes, which simulates waiting for incoming data. If there is enough room, the program will write slightly less than 2 GB (guess why?). Since Linux is a multitasking system, the results are not exactly repeatable. But the general impression is that writing to FAT or on ext3, on my laptop or on my desktop, they all behave more or less the same. First test regards full-speed write. Data was simply written as fast as possible. For anon-full partition, the write operation dwelled typically 5.5 ms, with occasional bursts of 0.7-0.9 *seconds* delay on the write operation. When the partition gets full, things get even nastier. Several seconds of blocking was observed. 5 seconds, and up to 14 seconds delay typically appeared a few times for a 2 GB writing session. Then I added a short sleep in the loop, in order to simulate data written at ~ 3MB/sec (which is reasonable for video capturing). This is far below the disk's physical capicity. The disk LED showed occasional flushes. Results: For a non-full partition, occasional peaks of up to 60ms were observed, which is something one can live with, probably. At 3 MB/s this means 180 kB stuck in the buffer. But when the partition started to get full, peaks of 0.2-0.3 seconds started to appear. The latter means 900 kB waiting to go out, and this maybe explains why I originally had problems. If you want to see how your system behaves, just compile the attached code and go: ./writefat output-junk-data-file > listfile The list of loop timings will be in listfile. Use your favourite number cruncher to view graphs. (The program's name is due to "historic reasons"...) If you want to test the slower writing speeds, check the typical delay in the listfile, or see how fast the output file grows. The sleep period defined in the program itself is not reliable, since the operating system may not be able to sleep for too short periods. And finally: Does an RAM FIFO help? Surprisingly, the answer is no. I did the following: mknod mypipe p mbuffer -i mypipe -o /fatfs/output-file & ./writefat mypipe > listfile and was quite surprised to find delays of 0.2 sec. BTW, mbuffer seems to force the data to be flushed to disk much more often. The disk LED showed that writes occured all the time, unlike the direct write to file, in which flushes occured occasionally. And "mypipe" and "logfile" are on an ext3, while outfile-file is on FAT. Insights, anybody? Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Real-time write on *ANY* filesystem
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Eli Billauer wrote: > guy keren wrote: > > > I don't think it's the "disk gets full". i think its "the page-cache gets > > full". try this: get a partition that is already quite full, and run the > > test on it. you will not see this problem. > > Well, you may get other results if you test it, but what I saw was that > if the partition was about to be full, I got one behaviour. Ran the same > test after deleting some gigas of data from the partition, got something > much better. Back and forth. This is how I reached the conclusion. so it _could_ be that due to fragmentation, instead of writing a large set of data consecutively, the system wrote this large set of data in several write commands on different parts of the hard drive. > The question I find appealing in this context is when the filesystem > looks for free blocks. If it does it only by demand, this would explain > what happens. the file system contains a list of all free blocks. it looks for a free block _from this list_ when there is a need for a new free block. furthermore, it usually does not allocate a single block - rather, it tries to pre-allocate several consecutive blocks, assuming they'll soon be needed. it does this in order to avoid spreading the file all over the disk. -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] C++ STL object
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, yakoub wrote:
> i'm using microsoft only because my course staff required this .
> and course staff are under budget so i'm asking you people
>
>
> hash_map H, S;
>
> for( .. ;... ;... )
> H.insert();
>
> ofstream out("tmp",ios::binary);
> out.write((char*)&H,sizeof(H)); <= write H to file
this is no way to write the hash_map into a file. you're writing the
contents of the object 'H', which probably contains pointers to
dynamically-allocated memory. this does not write the actual elements of
the hash_map into the file.
> out.flush();
> ifstream in("tmp",ios::binary);
> in.read((cahr*)&S,sizeof(H)); <= read H from file into S
so now you have to objects, 'H' and 'S', containing pointers to the same
data objects. when you delete both objects, you'll have a double-free of
each of these pointers, which will probably cause a crash.
> after this H.size()==S.size() and data are equal
> but destructor of S naturally doesn't work
> please read bellow for further info
you should enumerate all the objects in the hash table (using iterators),
and store each of them seperately into the file (and NOT via your method -
what if one of the objects contains pointers too?). the only think you may
store into a file is a native type (int, char, characters list, etc).
--guy
p.s. this has nothing to do with the operating system or the compiler.
this is about understanding memory management in C++.
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[Haifux] lecture suggestion: "Signs of the times"
how about a lecture that discusses several small time and timing issues with Linux: 1. time zones, summer time and zic. 2. keeping machines synced in time. 3. sub-second sleeps. 4. "accurate" select-based timers - avoiding the time warp dance. 5. timing and profiling. most of this is about programming in C, some of this is about system administration for your home and your office. if there's interest, i can do this after august penguin (15-aug-2005). -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] lecture suggestion: "Signs of the times"
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Orr Dunkelman wrote: > I say yes. > > Even though 15/8 may already be reserved (as I've told in yesterday > lecture which was very good, btw). unfortunately i couldn't come there yesterday, so i wasn't aware that this date is taken. that's actually better - if 15-aug is taken, then i'll take 29-aug-2005. can someone who knows if the 15-aug is taken for sure, please update the 'future' lectures on the web site? -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] W2L meeting
by the way this looks, i think that a missing piece is a web site that we will give to people, and which will contain instructions about how to get from nothing, to a machine connected to the net, with development environemnts (for the programmers), hebrew set up in everything, etc, in the "do-it-yourself" method. i will try to collect the material needed for this, and prepare this site (in hebrew, i gather?). it could have good use beyond w2l, too. i'll prepare a layout (not graphical design - a schematic layout) for how i view this and post it when it's done. --guy On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, Orr Dunkelman wrote: > As part of today's meeting we had the following series in mind: > > Two tracks: Technical and non-technical. > > First lecture: Joint lecture, the blitz lecture. Many dazzling demo's. > technically no slides, but mostly presentations. Thelist of things to > present TBD later. > > Non technical: second lecture - why linux. FOSS, money, ideology issues. > > Technical: second lecture - install + network >third lecture - basic admin + hebrew (+ little shell) >fourth lecture - How to move on - RTFM, asking questions, > solving problems, finishing stuff we didn't cover in third lecture. > > In a nutshell: the technical people should understand a bit how things > work in Linux. We give mostly demoes, but have an ordered explaination and > "HOWTOs" in the website. > > Lectures: 2 X 45/50 min. with 10-15 minute break. > > > > PR: We need slogan. something catchy good and useful. > > Ayelet (EzAton's wife) has volunteered to help with design of posters > again. This time, posters are to have short text (up to 30 words). I guess > we'll add next to these posters, posters with the time tables and some > other data (which can be of much lesser quality, i.e., black-white and > non-color). > > Shlomi Atar and Ayelet will design together a website (Shlomi is a > professional designer). Ohad Lotzky will make sure the website is w3c. > > Open fronts: > - Posters: text + hanging > - Fliers: do we need them? if so, design+text+distribution > - Websites: banners, links, etc. > - Forums > - papers (especailly e-papers). > - blogs? > > I need soliders. People willing to invest time in hanging (inside the > Technion this might be relatively easy, but we still need backups). > > -- > > Big issues still open: > > 1. InstaParty/Linux Day - do we take the effort? On one hand last times > were quite a fiasco. On the other, with enough PR - things may be much > better. > > 2. Distro - which distro to work with? > > 3. People - volunteering to do stuff... > > --- > > Some dates & interfaces: > > - New website design, operational on 23/AUG (content to be added later). > takes into consideration the fact that there are other LUGs. (shlomiA + > Ayelet, technical supervision - Ohad) > > - Slogan - I need someone that handles the choosing of a slogan. Mainly: > asking for slogans, sorting them out, and finding the good one. First > volunteer, first deals with that. > > - Posters & Fliers (if needed) - design + Text finished by 23/SEP. > Needed: someone to handle texts (I believe each LUG would need to add its > own text to the info posters). someone to handle the text on "ad" poster. > > - Lectures making & lecturers - needed: someone to manager this aspect. > volunteers for managing this, please send me mail. Times: chosing > manager: 14/AUG. Writing the lectures: Alpha version - 14/SEP, Beta - > 1/OCT, final - 15/OCT. Also responsible on manning the lectures (some of > them may need two lecturers, or more precisely - lecturer+ assistant). > > - PR: Needed: people willing to put posters, talk with schools etc. I > suggest to divide this into 3 major categories: > * schools - needed a manager that motivates poeple to talk with schools, > etc. > * electronic PR - manager to deal with forums, websites, banners, etc. > * "regular" PR - manager to deal with hanging posters, prinitng, fiers, > etc. > > - Sponsoring: I think hamakor can really help with that, especially with > national sponsors (those sponsoring all three clubs). Volunteer to handle > this? > > - Finding other LUGs doing this - It'd be nice if Telux and JLC would tell > us soon whetehr they are with us or not. If other LUG wish to joing, it'd > be nice to locate them now. > > > > comments, flames, etc. - please shout now... > > btw, if the nice people of hamakor can reinit the [EMAIL PROTECTED], that > would > be nice. > > also, it was suggested to try and get w2l.org.il. > > -- > Orr Dunkelman, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and OBOL", anon > > Spammers: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~orrd/spam.html > GPG fingerprint:C2D5 C6
Re: [Haifux] iptables with --uid-owner
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Eli Billauer wrote: > I hope one of you paranoids out there can help me with this. > > Problem: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] iptables -A OUTPUT -m owner --uid-owner root -j ACCEPT > iptables: Invalid argument > > I'm running iptables v1.2.5 under a 2.4.21 kernel for i686. The > ipt_owner module exists, and was actually autoloaded. on my system, this works fine. i'm using redhat's kernel, 2.4.18-17.7.x . did you: 1. look in /var/log/messages while running this command? 2. strace this command? if not - shame on you -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] laptop with sound for tomorrow's haifux lecture?
anyone is coming to the lecture tomorrow and bringing a laptop that has properly configured sound support, and is willing to loan it for running the lecture on? please let me know in advance, so i could transfer the material to you before the lecture (i was threatened that network *might* be down). the sound thing is optional, but i'd realy like to have working sound. i imagine laptops have internal speakers, so there's no need for external ones, right? thanks, -- guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
