On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:07:25 -0600 Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:On Jan 31, 2008, at 7:45 AM, Mark H. Young wrote:
: ---SNIP-
: NO, I meant level 2 support like IBM and OTHER vendors (OEM) have
: THEIR
: level 2 support (which is usually the
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Binyamin Dissen) writes:
Well, back when I was starting SP'ing (Western Electric), slightly earlier
than your time frame, that was the job.
PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ed Gould
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Gary Green wrote:
Well, all us write in our resumes that we look for a challenge.
From that
position profile
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/01/2008
at 12:37 AM, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
probably your next door neighbor is spying on you.
Ouch! Doesn't he get bored? Surely he'd get more thrills spying on someone
with a more exotic life style. Well, I suppose that it's better than
making bricks
On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
-SNIP--
the 1 (or 2) word answers from Schmuel
That's Shmuel! And I do give long answers, when appropriate. I've even
been known to give sample code.
Schmuel:
Apology offered. I looked at it
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:06:23 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Jan 30, 2008 11:51 AM, Mark H. Young [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I've read ALL the responses on this topic. In reading the job posting, the
first thing that struck me was the VERY FIRST line:
The purpose of the Z/OS
On Jan 31, 2008 8:45 AM, Mark H. Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:06:23 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Jan 30, 2008 11:51 AM, Mark H. Young [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I've read ALL the responses on this topic. In reading the job posting, the
first thing
On Jan 31, 2008, at 7:45 AM, Mark H. Young wrote:
---SNIP-
NO, I meant level 2 support like IBM and OTHER vendors (OEM) have
THEIR
level 2 support (which is usually the developers, or AT LEAST some
coders).
Vendors' help desk is level one support, who
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
Mark,
a *LONG* time ago early 1990's I interviewed for a job out in California
that was well to say the least different. This was a systems programmer job
that was at a data center that worked with top secret data. You
On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Gary Green wrote:
Well, all us write in our resumes that we look for a challenge.
From that
position profile, I can't think of anything more challenging. :)
Would you really take that type of a job... out in the middle of a
desert and LA is a good 90 miles
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gary Green
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Job ad for z/OS systems
]
-
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]','','','')[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gary Green
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
You can include our own esteemed Mr. Marshall
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
https://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_rbc/external/en-
us/gateway.do?
On Jan 30, 2008 11:51 AM, Mark H. Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Mark H. Young wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
https://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_rbc/external/en-
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 01/28/2008
at 02:07 PM, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
This 'faith' is grounded in facts:
FSVO facts. When a woman with an MA in Statistics can't understand a
multiple linear regression program, then the degree doesn't tell anything
useful.
--
Shmuel
You can include our own esteemed Mr. Marshall in that group! If I recall, and
I am certain he will correct me if I am wrong, he was a Captain in the Air
Force.
His contributions to the various tapes were much read and I can certainly say
I learned quite a bit from reading his source code back
: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
On 27 Jan 2008 13:38:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
Ted MacNEIL
Skickat: den 28 januari 2008 15:07
Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
A belief that formal education, diplomas, etc equate with
intelligence, competence, qualifications to perform an
occupation is a widespread contemporary prejudice
Other than that, my degree in Physics, with a math minor, haven't served me
one single iota in this business. That sheepskin is just so much
toilette paper.
My degree is a major in computer science with a minor in statistics.
My first job was as a capacity analyst.
My degree was 100%
What i meant was: If You e g is a system programmer with 20 (or more) years if
experience; would a minimal intelligence, some grounding in the
fundamentals or that you are trainable
be in any way a relevant level of competence for an employer ?
OK. That's why I didn't understand.
The position
28 januari 2008 16:16
Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: SV: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
What You say is true.
But is it relevant on our circumstances ?
I don't understand your question.
I was responding to another post with my opinion.
-
Too busy driving to stop
A belief that formal education, diplomas, etc equate with intelligence,
competence, qualifications to perform an occupation is a widespread
contemporary prejudice. It's got a similarity of a faith. Occasionally
expressions of this faith come up on this list, unchallenged, and they
irritate me.
@BAMA.UA.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
A belief that formal education, diplomas, etc equate with intelligence,
competence, qualifications to perform an occupation is a widespread
contemporary prejudice. It's got a similarity of a faith. Occasionally
expressions
---snip---
When asked about the significance of a college degree for a prospective
employee, a friend responded that it showed that the individual had to
do thing they didn't like or didn't want to do, but did them well enough
to pass. The same could be said of
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:40:26 -0600, Ron Wells wrote:
likely a detractor. nah they are the next CEO's
You can also look at it as promoting them to a position where they can do less
damage. Look on the bright side.
--
For
meddelande-
Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Ted MacNEIL
Skickat: den 28 januari 2008 17:56
Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: SV: SV: SV: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
OK. I didn't saw that it was for a trainee. Must I read
all posts
OK. I didn't saw that it was for a trainee. Must I read all posts in a
thread ?
1. Yes, in order to comment intelligently.
2. It's in the subject header.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe /
---snip--
A belief that formal education, diplomas, etc equate with intelligence,
competence, qualifications to perform an occupation is a widespread
contemporary prejudice. It's got a similarity of a faith. Occasionally
expressions of this faith come up on this
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ted MacNEIL) writes:
My degree is a major in computer science with a minor in statistics.
My first job was as a capacity analyst.
My degree
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:07:24 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote:
This 'faith' is grounded in facts:
1. You require a minimal intelligence to get through formal education.
2. You need some grounding in the fundamentals of your trade.
3. You have to prove you are trainable.
If this is prejudice, so be it!
What You say is true.
But is it relevant on our circumstances ?
I don't understand your question.
I was responding to another post with my opinion.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff /
for z/OS systems programmer trainee
A belief that formal education, diplomas, etc equate with intelligence,
competence, qualifications to perform an occupation is a widespread
contemporary prejudice. It's got a similarity of a faith. Occasionally
expressions of this faith come up on this list
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:53:45 -0600, Dave Kopischke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can also look at it as promoting them to a position where they can do
less
damage. Look on the bright side.
Not really. Those are the people that usually bring up the O word.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Ted MacNEIL
Skickat: den 28 januari 2008 17:26
Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: SV: SV: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
What i meant was: If You e g is a system programmer with 20
(or more) years if experience; would a minimal
intelligence, some
@BAMA.UA.EDU
To
IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:07:24 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote:
This 'faith' is grounded in facts:
1. You require a minimal intelligence to get through formal education.
2. You need some grounding
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick O'Keefe
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy
On Jan 28, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Traylor, Terry wrote:
When asked about the significance of a college degree for a
prospective
employee, a friend responded that it showed that the individual had to
do thing they didn't like or didn't want to do, but did them well
enough
to pass. The same
Hmmm... wasn't that the place where Ted used to work?:)
Ed
--
I wouldn't know. RBC is (AFAIK) the largest mainframe shop in Canada, so I
suppose it is possible.
No, I used to work for the Bank of Nova Scotia.
Never worked
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
...
The COBOL requirement seems a bit odd for a system programming
position. It's not a bad idea in a COBOL shop, but it limits the
The COBOL requirement seems a bit odd for a system programming position. It's
not a bad idea in a COBOL shop, but it limits the audience to those in or from
application programming. Same comment for the
PL/I requirement.
I see no problem with a SYSPROG with a knowledge of COBOL and/or PL1.
On 27 Jan 2008 13:38:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
...
The COBOL requirement seems a bit odd for a system programming
On Jan 27, 2008 4:38 PM, Patrick O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:55:40 -0500, Don Leahy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
...
The COBOL requirement seems a bit odd for a system
The first sysprog job I had at Milwaukee County I did quite a bit of Cobol
programming. Never did PL/1 at that job though. I worked on their billing
system. Later, I wrote a system similar to HSM to back up all of the new and
changed datasets on the TSO packs. That was mostly assembler, but
Something interesting appeared in my Inbox yesterday. It's from the
Royal Bank of Canada
https://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_rbc/external/en-us/gateway.do?functionName=viewFromLinkjobPostId=217374localeCode=en-usemail=true
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