LOL - you may just have made my tagline file, Bill. We'll see whether I still
like it well enough tomorrow. Like this:
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
The problem with journalism today is everyone thinks they are one -Bill
Johnson in the listserv IBM-MAIN
Appropriate tagline:
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Most people thought [in 2000] that Web content should somehow be free,
a hopelessly naïve ideology known today as dot-communism....Dot-communism
has been discarded along with its political counterpart, as users
Yep. We used to get a lot of errors for out of volumes in a storage
groups, and the users would want us to add more volumes. For several
calls I would point out that the data set had a very small primary and
secondary space value. I would go through all the extents on one
volume, then proceed
IBM used to offer HESC for VM .edus. There were different tiers but it was very
cheap. We used it until they quit offering it. Well it's a long story IBM just
stuck it's head in the ground and let the *nix assimilate.
In a message dated 6/9/2020 2:22:17 PM Central Standard Time,
My pet peeve is the default for SPACE; "Absolute track not available" is not a
user friendly error message for forgetting to specify SPACE.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
JCL: I used to complain about JCL's arcane and in some cases backward syntax.
I mean, "COND=(0,LT,step.procstep)" - who made that up? But somehow over the
years I've made my peace with JCL. It is what it is. And I would have done no
better, back then.
EBCDIC: A couple of years ago, when I
I sent the author of this hit piece a few real journalistic pieces which
contradicted her claims. She responded kindly and stated she would do more
research (or any research in my opinion) if she did another mainframe piece.
The problem with journalism today is everyone thinks they are one, and
> Add to that the open-source mindset that software SHOULD BY RIGHT be "free"
I wish. GMU is using proprietary e-mail software and no longer allows access
via POP3 or IMAP4.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe
On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 21:53:51 +, Farley, Peter wrote:
>You're probably correct about the academic mindset and IBM's failure to
>successfully market to them that the mainframe CAN do all the "cool" things
>they perceive as the latest-and-greatest-idea(s), and is actively "keeping up"
>with
I liked Panvalet.
Sent from my iPhone
I promise you I can’t type or
Spell on any smartphone
> On Jun 9, 2020, at 15:53, David Spiegel wrote:
>
> +1 sleazy-freaking-trieve.
> (I used to support it, Panvalet and Librarian)
>
>> On 2020-06-09 16:27, Joe Monk wrote:
>> "Easytrieve plus"
>>
Unfortunate IBM does not offer systems or training for schools. The flood of
kids knowing what it is vs the teachings that go on today, I would say you
would see a swing back...over night..
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Tuesday,
You're probably correct about the academic mindset and IBM's failure to
successfully market to them that the mainframe CAN do all the "cool" things
they perceive as the latest-and-greatest-idea(s), and is actively "keeping up"
with the best of those ideas.
Add to that the open-source mindset
I don't pay much attention to IBM's marketing practices so I can't opine
knowledgeably, but I offer this counter, a story I'm sure I've told here
before: Some years ago my oldest son got interested in learning mainframes.
(I think he must have heard me rant too often about my increasing job
+1 sleazy-freaking-trieve.
(I used to support it, Panvalet and Librarian)
On 2020-06-09 16:27, Joe Monk wrote:
"Easytrieve plus"
You mean sleazytrieve plus? :)
There was also DYL280 and QUIKJOB.
Joe
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 12:55 PM Mike Schwab wrote:
4GL - I've used Telon which takes a
Sleazytrieve is the bane of existence, as much as java is. We actually dumped
all CA products, so we have IMU now. I'm not sure it's any better. You want
to see some ugly COBOL?
First Horizon Bank
Mainframe Technical Support
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:28 PM Joe Monk wrote:
> "Easytrieve plus"
>
> You mean sleazytrieve plus? :)
>
We still use SleavyTrieve+ in production. Crap, we have some RACF reports,
written over 28 years ago (before my time) which use EZTP to parse the
output of an "LU *". I really should replace
I used quikjob for nearly 20 years as a systems pgmr. It was a very simple
yet powerful product. It also had several other quikxxx modules to handle
vsam easily and a report module to make very neat reports from bland data.
I think the company got bought out and the products renamed at some point
I have not see sleazytrieve on 20 years
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 9, 2020, at 15:27, Joe Monk wrote:
>
> "Easytrieve plus"
>
> You mean sleazytrieve plus? :)
>
> There was also DYL280 and QUIKJOB.
>
> Joe
>
>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 12:55 PM Mike Schwab wrote:
>>
>> 4GL - I've used
"Easytrieve plus"
You mean sleazytrieve plus? :)
There was also DYL280 and QUIKJOB.
Joe
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 12:55 PM Mike Schwab wrote:
> 4GL - I've used Telon which takes a screen layout and database layout
> and generates the cobol code and editing rules. ADR-Datacom had Ideal
> which
Ah, but Knuth's Literate Programming isn't a self documenting language; it's a
means to integrate the documentation source with the code source and get well
formatted text out of it. You still need to write the documentation before web
can format it.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
Yes. Without all the END-??? statements.
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> Wouldn't that be VSCOBOL, well beyond CODASYL?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Apple Did the high school thing. That's where they got their devotees.
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:54 PM Tom Brennan wrote:
>
> When I bought my Yamaha piano in 1989, I heard a story that Yamaha had
> been supplying free pianos to universities for years. It was more than
> them just being nice,
Sean,
Good News! I successfully started a zCX instance and logged on via OMVS
and used the ssh command to reach the zCX instance. I also successfully
logged on via a Bluezone VT320 session pointing to our DVIPA address. I
had to transfer the admin IDs private key to my PC, convert it to
4GL - I've used Telon which takes a screen layout and database layout
and generates the cobol code and editing rules. ADR-Datacom had Ideal
which was similar, later CA. Easytrieve plus I really liked,
especially the report generation part.
Wouldn't that be VSCOBOL, well beyond CODASYL?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:42 PM
Our shop had one agency still running report writer reports using the
free built in version (78?).
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:47 PM Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers
> are not required to document and to keep documentation up to
Probably a combination of legal issues and lack of vision. Didn't the consent
decree kill the 80% discount?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tom
Brennan
On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 17:23:48 +, Doug wrote:
>And maybe the third dumb thing they did was give DOS to Gates and trash
>OS/2
>
And way before that, not making PL/S a product. It left a void that's
belatedly being filled by Metal C.
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Farley, Peter x23353"
And maybe the third dumb thing they did was give DOS to Gates and trash
OS/2
Doug Fuerst
d...@bkassociates.net
-- Original Message --
From: "Farley, Peter x23353"
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 09-Jun-20 12:25:16
Subject: Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes"
The first
True, but not entirely satisfactorily. Many of the "newer" (FSVO "new")
complex instructions have yet to be added to any of the Hercules emulator
systems, so "full" emulation as available in zPDT isn't truly available (yet,
until/unless more people contribute and make it so).
IMHO IBM could
The inner product of two vectors is a sum of products. The inner product of two
square matrices has a sum of products for each element:
a=0;
do i=lbound(a) to hbound(a);
do k=lbound(a,2) to hbound(a,2);
a(i,k) = sum(b(i,*)*c(*,k));
end;
end;
The
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 11:38 AM Farley, Peter x23353 <
peter.far...@broadridge.com> wrote:
> John,
>
> It isn't just the $900 per year for the ADCD OS license. You can’t
> legally get ADCD without the ~$5K yearly cost of the zPDT dongle and Linux
> hardware emulation layer to run the OS's.
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 11:28 AM PINION, RICHARD W.
wrote:
> That's just the price of the current ADCD offering. To license
> zPDT itself is roughly $4,000/emulated CPU.
>
In the words of Emily Latilla: "Never mind."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg
>
> -Original Message-
John,
It isn't just the $900 per year for the ADCD OS license. You can’t legally get
ADCD without the ~$5K yearly cost of the zPDT dongle and Linux hardware
emulation layer to run the OS's. That's the real kicker.
OTOH I wouldn't be surprised if bad-actor state security organizations (or US
That's just the price of the current ADCD offering. To license
zPDT itself is roughly $4,000/emulated CPU.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: "Everyone wants to
The first really dumb thing that IBM did was to STOP providing heavily
discounted mainframe hardware and software to universities and colleges. The
NYC public colleges (CUNY, City University of New York) used to offer courses
in COBOL and VSAM and many other mainframe technologies in the
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:54 AM Tom Brennan
wrote:
> When I bought my Yamaha piano in 1989, I heard a story that Yamaha had
> been supplying free pianos to universities for years. It was more than
> them just being nice, they knew that someone practicing every day on the
> school grand piano
Years ago, IBM did sell hardware/software to universities at deeply discounted
prices to attract young people to them. Why they stopped is anybody's guess.
Rex
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom
Brennan
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 10:54 AM
To:
I don't know what any of those terms even mean, so I'll not attempt to answer.
My interest in learning Fortran is more for it syntax than for its scientific
and mathematical capabilities.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Seymour J Metz
Sent:
When I bought my Yamaha piano in 1989, I heard a story that Yamaha had
been supplying free pianos to universities for years. It was more than
them just being nice, they knew that someone practicing every day on the
school grand piano would likely go on to buy one, or be the decision
maker for
On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 15:46:48 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers are
>not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, are
>prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream
Ultimately it's a management issue common to all languages: if programmers are
not required to document and to keep documentation up to date, or, worse, are
prohibited from "wasting time" doing so, there will be downstream consequences.
In the case of COBOL there is also the pernicious myth
On 6/9/2020 11:16 AM, Mark Regan wrote:
https://medium.com/@bellmar/old-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to
On 08/06/2020 12:35, Seymour J Metz wrote:
Didn't Datamation introduce COMEFROM much earlier?
It seems a small inter"think" with the archive service in my head is required
:-)
Thanks.
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff /
Partially. Does Fortran now have reduction operators, e.g., inner product,
trace?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Frank Swarbrick
https://medium.com/@bellmar/old-code-gets-younger-every-year-3bd24c7f2262
Regards,
Mark T. Regan
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:21 AM Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> Y'all stop using logic and reason - this is an emotional issue that the
> author and others are invested in and has nothing to do with IBM
> effectively telling the world that the mainframe is dead based on all the
> layoffs that have
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:19 AM Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Is that like the eternal ax (that handle has been changed 20 times and the
> blade 30 times, but it's still the same ax)?
>
Or like I read in one book: "I've only had one drink. It's been topped off
20 times. But it's only one drink." Or
Regarding 100% customers:
- Did you think about replatforming?
- Yes.
(OK, another one on the list)
- And what?
- And concluded it would be very stupid idea. We did the analysis and we
know that.
Another explanation:
Mainframe shops are sometimes big companies. It is very likely to find
an
I couldn't tell you. But it's what I have been running on Windows recently. I
imagine it might (probably?) run on Linux for Z.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 8:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Do you mean like this?
integer, dimension(10) :: a, b, c
a = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
b = [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11]
c = a + b
print *, "a = ", a
print *, "b = ", b
print *, "c = ", c
a =1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9
What do you think about paved roads? Theyre something else, huh? Nice and
smooth...
Joe
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:41 AM Seymour J Metz wrote:
> How long has your company been using electricity? Time to modernize.
>
> Yes, I know that you've replaced the wiring three times and have solar
> power
How long has your company been using electricity? Time to modernize.
Yes, I know that you've replaced the wiring three times and have solar power on
your roof, but it's still the same obsolete electricity.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
What about gcc Fortran? Does that run on OMVS? Linux on Z?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Frank Swarbrick [frank.swarbr...@outlook.com]
Sent: Tuesday,
" It's Beta vs VHS all over again"
GREAT analogy, like DVD vs Laser DISC
and who won out, the better of the two ? nope
Carmen Vitullo
- Original Message -
From: "Lionel B Dyck"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 9:20:47 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Re:
W dniu 09.06.2020 o 14:24, Peter Bishop pisze:
Interesting re 2):
"The survey found that organizations are running an average of four
mainframes with an average age of 17 years. Sixty-four percent are
running mainframes between 10 and 20 years old, with 28% running
machines that are 20 to 30
Time sharing systems with each user having his own CMS virtual machine goes
back a long way; at least to National CSS.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Hmmm, let me see if I remember. Oh yeah, what used to be called a remote data
center!
Mitch
-Original Message-
From: ITschak Mugzach
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 8:14 am
Subject: Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes"
John McKown, you are not alone!
Here's the question I have about Fortran support. Why does IBM support modern
Fortran on platforms like Linux and AIX, but mainframe Fortran (IBM VS FORTRAN)
is still at FORTRAN 77 level and seems to have had no enhancements other than
Language Environment support since...1993? I know if I
Y'all stop using logic and reason - this is an emotional issue that the author
and others are invested in and has nothing to do with IBM effectively telling
the world that the mainframe is dead based on all the layoffs that have
occurred over the last 20-25 years, or that IBM continues to
Is that like the eternal ax (that handle has been changed 20 times and the
blade 30 times, but it's still the same ax)?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Have they added array operations to Fortran?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:35 AM
A noted translator once claimed that every translation is a lie; I am tempted
to claim that every computer-related taxonomy is a lie.
Octal was the norm long before EUnix; hexadecimal, while occasionally used, was
an aberration until S/360.
By 1960 macro-assemblers were the norm.
How do you
Maybe based on their "logic", my z14 is 30 years old because we're running an
application on it that was written in the late 80s. Never mind that it has
been maintained for the past 30+ years, since we can find 30 year old code in
the application, the entire thing must be 30+ years old.
Rex
So does this mean that 2/3 of companies out there are running unsupported
hardware and software?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Raphaël Jacquot
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: "Everyone wants
Mike
I can see I left out details that would have made things a bit easier to
understand - Please accept my apologies.
Having said that, the first draft of a response to the points you raise
included a _lot_ of information, and I eventually threw that draft away.
Please understand that I'm not
I think to most here the argument against mainframes from a technical point of
view is wrong. But I wondering if another aspect has to be looked at. That is
IBM's sales, licensing and promotion of their technology. I realize all this
is old news. But lack of promotion (compared to other
This is funny and sad at the same time;
my company went as far as creating a new group 'Virtualization technology'
dedicated to 'CLOUD' computing, when I told my director that we, on the
mainframe with some work can create a Zcloud instance or instances using z/osmf
- he was surprised, but did
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:56 AM Ward Able, Grant wrote:
> There's no such thing as The Cloud - it's just someone else's
> computer...
>
And it's just a re-invention of "time sharing". Well, except that each
client has its own set of virtual machines (maybe real machines, but I
doubt it) with
On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:49:53 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> "The survey found that organizations are running an average of four
> mainframes with an average age of 17 years. Sixty-four percent are
> running mainframes between 10 and 20 years old, with 28% running
> machines that
this just upsets me in so many ways.
The ignorance is amazing.
I happen to be at a shop where aws is the current sexy flavor of the day.
the mainframes at my shop have there days numbered for very invalid and naive
reasons.
--
John McKown, you are not alone!
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM comming son *
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 4:08 PM Ron Wells <
02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> BINGO
>
>
BINGO
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Ward Able, Grant
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 7:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes"
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
There's no such thing as The Cloud - it's
There's no such thing as The Cloud - it's just someone else's computer...
Regards – Grant.
DTCC Public (White)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Mitch Mccluhan
Sent: 09 June 2020 13:51
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: "Everyone wants
Everyone,
I can tell you as a fact that there are a number of things are true. Many
"modernization" projects do end up not being completed, no big mainframe shop
is looking to get off the mainframe, there are a large number of projects
underway where the client is "modernizing" on the
Bet many were 30 year old 4381s, 3081s or whatever running MVS prior to XA.
Depends who you ask. Application base code may not have changed much. I'd hope
front-ends are no longer subarea SNA!
Many hardware and software upgrades later we have modernised the mainframe.
Didn't MVS address
I suspect that "modernization" means using what is in style and that the 100%
is because of a tailored audience. The "fear of change" survey seems to be more
about perceptions than objective reality. Then there':s this:
"The survey found that organizations are running an average of four
Le 09/06/2020 à 14:24, Peter Bishop a écrit :
> Interesting re 2):
>
> "The survey found that organizations are running an average of four
> mainframes with an average age of 17 years. Sixty-four percent are
> running mainframes between 10 and 20 years old, with 28% running
> machines that are 20
[Default] On 8 Jun 2020 01:55:52 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
dcrayf...@gmail.com (David Crayford) wrote:
>I learned JSP back in the early 90's. It was popular in the UK (Jackson
>was British) and most large mainframe companies adopted it. It was good.
>There was even tooling that
>could
Interesting re 2):
"The survey found that organizations are running an average of four
mainframes with an average age of 17 years. Sixty-four percent are
running mainframes between 10 and 20 years old, with 28% running
machines that are 20 to 30 years old. "
So 2/7 are running machines over
A coworker just sent me this brief article.
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/everyone-wants-to-retire-mainframes-but-74-of-modernization-efforts-fail/
I'm interested in two aspects of this:
1) The writer uses the word "modernization" quite a bit, and as far as I can
tell she uses it,
HOLY CRAP!!! First post from Darren that I've seen in years Maybe I
missed a few. Hi Darren!
_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering
Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave,
This is really cool Lionel. Could do with a install script for the
github stuff. Ping me offline if you want a hand with that.
On 2020-06-07 12:31 AM, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
A group of us have been working on an open source project to simplify RACF
Administration - it is called RACFADM and is
Thank you Dave - I was unaware of that qualification.
Checked and, yes, 'localhost' is defined in my RESOLVER parameters
Sean
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 17:33, Mike Wawiorko <
014ab5cdfb21-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> I hope I'm understanding what you are saying.
>
> Localhost is for
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