Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bob Bridges]

Not the way I'd go.  If for my sins I were made king of the list, I'd be
more King Log than King Stork.  Off-topic doesn't bother me, and it would
take a lot to get me to ban any poster.  But I wouldn't mind deleting
individual posts that are deliberately derisive, denigrating or insulting.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* If you have a problem with me, text me.  And if you don't have my number,
you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.  -Christian Bale */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Pommier, Rex
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 13:34

The troll who said he would stop commenting on here a few months ago?  My
vote would be to have his account tagged as restricted from posting.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Allan Staller
Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 7:16 AM

Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

I worked for an health insurance company. As another poster said, “that's how 
all insurance companies function. there's a reason why they're often compared 
to a legalized mafia.”

I’m curious as to why you guys can’t seem to ignore the troll? Or create some 
filter that you guys mentioned was easy. Or even listen to Darren?

And why do the same guys complain about the troll? The ones who seem to think 
their constant reminiscing about the good old mainframe days is relevant?

Like I said previously, there are thousands of mainframe people who don’t post, 
probably aren’t even registered, likely not even aware of the list. It has 
degenerated into 20-30 guys (and it’s mostly guys) who need to show how much 
they think they know. Posting the same drivel over and over. Of all the shops 
I’ve worked and all the people I worked with over 40+ years, there aren’t 5 
people who even care to subscribe. It’s more like a frat club. And I’m 
unwilling to perform the hazing.

And if the troll was banned, who is to say he/she doesn’t have 4 other 
accounts? Is the list that technically robust a user can actually be stopped 
from posting?

Is there a TOS? Some of us joined when Marist College (I think) hosted it.

It’s a slippery slope when freedom of speech is squelched. Especially when the 
entity is a government run, taxpayer funded institution.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 15, 2023, 1:34 PM, Pommier, Rex  
wrote:

The troll who said he would stop commenting on here a few months ago?  My vote 
would be to have his account tagged as restricted from posting.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 7:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to 
on-premises systems

Classification: Confidential

To all,
Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away

::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
viruses and other defects.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from 
disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not 
the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this 
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, 
is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this 
message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard 
copy format. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Pommier, Rex]

The troll who said he would stop commenting on here a few months ago?  My vote 
would be to have his account tagged as restricted from posting.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 7:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to 
on-premises systems

Classification: Confidential

To all,
Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away

::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
viruses and other defects.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from 
disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not 
the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this 
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, 
is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this 
message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard 
copy format. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Wayne Bickerdike]

I've driven on a few continents, Asia is basically watch out, there is no
"right of way".

Australia has terrible lane discipline, overtaking on the near side, people
braking when they see a speed camera on a freeway, limited use of turn
signals.

USA has better roads than Australia, people drive faster, tailgate about
the same as Australians.

The UK used to have very good driving habits but massive immigration has
led to a lowering of standards.

As for wind affecting vehicles, when I lived in the UK, I had a double
decker bus get blown into my path while I was overtaking. It was a day with
gale force winds, which are common and very destructive. The driver was
apologetic but the bus company didn't admit liability and I was stuck with
paying for my repairs. As a young person, I only had third party insurance.

France used to have "priorite a droit" which meant traffic could merge into
a highway from a minor road with the obvious consequences if you asserted
the commonly thought right of way.

The USA has great health care if you can pay. Probably has the worst
lifestyle.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 7:14 AM billogden  wrote:

> >Concerning the comments on trucks, driving, and the rest of the world.
> I lived for years in various parts of the world, including Germany (for one
> year). Driving can be more complex there (such as when driving 100MPH and
> being "blinked" from behind asking me to get out of the way!) Knew a few
> truck people with different mixtures of trucks and their stories were very
> mixed.
>
> Lived in Arizona for a year. Anyone who says "wind is never a problem"
> needs
> a bit more real-world education. This is a large country and different
> parts
> are different!
>
> I do believe that some of our long-distance trucking might be better via
> train, but loading/unloading containers has its own problems and issues.
> Simple-minded solve-it-all presentations are not very helpful.
>
> Bill Ogden
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[billogden]

>Concerning the comments on trucks, driving, and the rest of the world.
I lived for years in various parts of the world, including Germany (for one
year). Driving can be more complex there (such as when driving 100MPH and
being "blinked" from behind asking me to get out of the way!) Knew a few
truck people with different mixtures of trucks and their stories were very
mixed.

Lived in Arizona for a year. Anyone who says "wind is never a problem" needs
a bit more real-world education. This is a large country and different parts
are different!

I do believe that some of our long-distance trucking might be better via
train, but loading/unloading containers has its own problems and issues.
Simple-minded solve-it-all presentations are not very helpful.

Bill Ogden

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Doug Fuerst]

With all due respect, and lately not much has been earned, this all has 
NOTHING to do with MVS or related topics.
If you all participating  in this inane discussion have such a 
compelling need for this, please create a list for perhaps "Inane 
discussions bored sysprogs need to have" or some such, and take this 
garbage there.


I for one  am tired of this crap.

Doug Fuerst


-- Original Message --

From "Jay Maynard" 

To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 8/9/2023 9:42:27 AM
Subject Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises 
systems



Twitter has no topic. This mailing list does.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 7:55 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


 First he feeds the troll then tells others to ignore. He can’t even follow
 his own suggestion. You obvious trump supporters don’t like when I produce
 facts. I’m betting the same folks (over 50 white males mostly) who yell
 free speech on Twitter are the ones who don’t like free speech here. And
 before you go saying they are 2 different forums, the only difference is my
 tax dollars support this one and Twitter is a private company that can
 suppress speech.


 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


 On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 8:17 AM, Allan Staller <
0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

 Classification: Confidential

 To all,
 Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away

 ::DISCLAIMER::
 
 The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
 intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
 guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
 corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
 viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
 referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
 or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
 email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
 views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
 dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
 publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized
 representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
 email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before
 opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and
 other defects.
 

 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
Jay Maynard

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Yup, they know how to drive.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 9:37 AM, Crawford Robert C (Contractor) 
<04e08f385650-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

The genius of the autobahn is the left lane is for passing only and passing on 
the right is illegal.  Nobody camping out in the left lane, going the speed 
limit and turning the highway into a dodgeball court. 



Robert Crawford
Abstract Evolutions LLC
(210) 913-3822

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 1:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

No, I wasn’t including the UK. I’ve been to England twice, Ireland, Northern 
Ireland, & Scotland. I never drove in the UK. Perhaps fearful of driving on the 
left side. I took tours via bus or van, (Bath, Stonehenge) and rail to Windsor. 
Tours (bus, rail, van, car) in Scotland, Ireland, & Northern Ireland.

The highways in Europe are just as big as US highways. And that’s what we are 
talking about. Not back roads.

The trucks in Europe don’t pass much. Because the max speed is 54 MPH. And they 
are all doing the max. It’s truly unusual to watch. Cars are flying by what is 
a long line of trucks. Looks like a convoy. And the trucks are much smaller 
than US trucks.

Americans also don’t understand the autobahn. Most think it is 1 road with 
unlimited speed limit. It’s not 1 road and the unlimited speeds aren’t on the 
entire length of road but actually goes down near cities. In fact, it goes down 
below where most US highways limit is within cities. For the safety of people. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 1:58 PM, Jeremy Nicoll 
 wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 14:07, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I’ve driven roads in Europe. 

Which definition of Europe are you using?  That is, are you including the uK 
(recently in the EU but no longer)?

>Every truck is in the right most lane, unless they are passing which 
>isn’t common.

Isn't it?  Do you think the faster ones drive over the slower ones, then?


> It’s nothing like the US

Did anyone ever suggest it might be?  I've never been in the US, but I've 
driven tour coaches in France albeit not all that recently.

 > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds.

The US roads you're talking about - and the European ones - are presumably just 
the (UK) motorways, German autobahns etc.

There's significantly smaller roads in a lot of places.  Eg there are no 
motorways in Scotland north of Perth or thereabouts.  But the supermarkets 
still send 44 ton trucks up there.  They are not able to travel fast.

> In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross 
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a 
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).

There must be some exceptions to that, maybe in older vehicles.


--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

I figured you’d miss the point. The IBM list is on a public university hosted 
platform. Which means it’s funded by public tax dollars, including mine. 
Twitter is a private company that can limit speech that doesn’t fit their 
rules. You trumpers are constitutionally illiterate.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 9:42 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

Twitter has no topic. This mailing list does.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 7:55 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> First he feeds the troll then tells others to ignore. He can’t even follow
> his own suggestion. You obvious trump supporters don’t like when I produce
> facts. I’m betting the same folks (over 50 white males mostly) who yell
> free speech on Twitter are the ones who don’t like free speech here. And
> before you go saying they are 2 different forums, the only difference is my
> tax dollars support this one and Twitter is a private company that can
> suppress speech.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 8:17 AM, Allan Staller <
> 0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Classification: Confidential
>
> To all,
> Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away
>
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized
> representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before
> opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and
> other defects.
> 
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Jay Maynard

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jay Maynard]

Twitter has no topic. This mailing list does.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 7:55 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> First he feeds the troll then tells others to ignore. He can’t even follow
> his own suggestion. You obvious trump supporters don’t like when I produce
> facts. I’m betting the same folks (over 50 white males mostly) who yell
> free speech on Twitter are the ones who don’t like free speech here. And
> before you go saying they are 2 different forums, the only difference is my
> tax dollars support this one and Twitter is a private company that can
> suppress speech.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 8:17 AM, Allan Staller <
> 0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Classification: Confidential
>
> To all,
> Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away
>
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized
> representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before
> opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and
> other defects.
> 
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Jay Maynard

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Crawford Robert C (Contractor)]

The genius of the autobahn is the left lane is for passing only and passing on 
the right is illegal.  Nobody camping out in the left lane, going the speed 
limit and turning the highway into a dodgeball court. 



Robert Crawford
Abstract Evolutions LLC
(210) 913-3822

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 1:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

No, I wasn’t including the UK. I’ve been to England twice, Ireland, Northern 
Ireland, & Scotland. I never drove in the UK. Perhaps fearful of driving on the 
left side. I took tours via bus or van, (Bath, Stonehenge) and rail to Windsor. 
Tours (bus, rail, van, car) in Scotland, Ireland, & Northern Ireland.

The highways in Europe are just as big as US highways. And that’s what we are 
talking about. Not back roads.

The trucks in Europe don’t pass much. Because the max speed is 54 MPH. And they 
are all doing the max. It’s truly unusual to watch. Cars are flying by what is 
a long line of trucks. Looks like a convoy. And the trucks are much smaller 
than US trucks.

Americans also don’t understand the autobahn. Most think it is 1 road with 
unlimited speed limit. It’s not 1 road and the unlimited speeds aren’t on the 
entire length of road but actually goes down near cities. In fact, it goes down 
below where most US highways limit is within cities. For the safety of people. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 1:58 PM, Jeremy Nicoll 
 wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 14:07, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I’ve driven roads in Europe. 

Which definition of Europe are you using?  That is, are you including the uK 
(recently in the EU but no longer)?

>Every truck is in the right most lane, unless they are passing which 
>isn’t common.

Isn't it?  Do you think the faster ones drive over the slower ones, then?


> It’s nothing like the US

Did anyone ever suggest it might be?  I've never been in the US, but I've 
driven tour coaches in France albeit not all that recently.

 > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds.

The US roads you're talking about - and the European ones - are presumably just 
the (UK) motorways, German autobahns etc.

There's significantly smaller roads in a lot of places.  Eg there are no 
motorways in Scotland north of Perth or thereabouts.  But the supermarkets 
still send 44 ton trucks up there.  They are not able to travel fast.

> In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross 
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a 
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).

There must be some exceptions to that, maybe in older vehicles.


--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Exactly 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 4:31 AM, Raphaël Jacquot  
wrote:

Le 09/08/2023 à 03:48, Bill Johnson a écrit :
> I worked for 15 years for a health insurance company. I’ve seen how & why US 
> healthcare rates poorly. The ultimate goal of healthcare insurance companies 
> is to take in premium and pay out as little as possible in claims. Health 
> isn’t even a consideration. Profits are.

that's how all insurance companies function.
there's a reason why they're often compared to a legalized mafia

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

First he feeds the troll then tells others to ignore. He can’t even follow his 
own suggestion. You obvious trump supporters don’t like when I produce facts. 
I’m betting the same folks (over 50 white males mostly) who yell free speech on 
Twitter are the ones who don’t like free speech here. And before you go saying 
they are 2 different forums, the only difference is my tax dollars support this 
one and Twitter is a private company that can suppress speech.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, 8:17 AM, Allan Staller 
<0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Classification: Confidential

To all,
Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away

::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
viruses and other defects.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

To all,
Stop feeding the troll and maybe he'll go away

::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
viruses and other defects.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

Bill,
Why don't you move there?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 9:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality of 
lives.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in 
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will defend 
his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson < 
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but
> not frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> wrote:
>
> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and Tanker
> endorsements.
>
> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a box
> truck once into Canada.
>
> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>
> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their trucks to
> 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no governors at all.
>
> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be down
> for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or whatever). The
> world of trucking has changed significantly since I started driving
> back about 2004.
>
> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its effects.
> Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>
> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to not
> jack knife.
>
> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving a
> 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight was more
> at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn beams).
>
> Stick to what you know.
>
> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>
> Steve Thompson
>
>
>
> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s
> exactly why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And
> wind as an excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> >
> > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with
> > curtain- sides often have their curtains open in high winds to
> > significantly reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's
> > a partial load or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the 
> > curtains.
> >
> >> The trucks all have governors.
> > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not the
> > actual speed.
> >
> >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > By "right" do you mean &quo

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Raphaël Jacquot]

Le 09/08/2023 à 03:48, Bill Johnson a écrit :

I worked for 15 years for a health insurance company. I’ve seen how & why US 
healthcare rates poorly. The ultimate goal of healthcare insurance companies is to 
take in premium and pay out as little as possible in claims. Health isn’t even a 
consideration. Profits are.


that's how all insurance companies function.
there's a reason why they're often compared to a legalized mafia

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

70% of US GDP is in blue counties. Or is a single wide good enough for you? 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/election-2020-democrats-republicans-economy.html

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/latest-updates-biden-trump-election-2020/card/32vHNFTTc2xxNr7NITHY

I was in SF just a few years ago. It has the same problems all cities have. 
Most retailers have left many large cities. I smelled nothing but ocean air.

Also, crime isn’t up in SF which tells me where you get your news & 
information. Fox probably. 

https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-Chesa-Boudin-London-Breed-16751930.php

Crime & murder rates are actually higher in red states. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/04/28/red-states-have-higher-gun-death-rates-than-blue-states-heres-why/


You need better sources.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 11:33 PM, Savor, Thomas 
<0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Not a gay hater...never said anything of the sort but hey nice 
diversioneverything you said, beautiful city...high paying 
jobsWAS..Place smells like sewage based on the shit people take in the 
sidewalk and street.  Hard to walk down the sidewalk step over/around the 
bums/shit/needles/tents and RV's everywhere.  You haven't been there in a while 
to miss your mess.  Oh, here's a good idea, you can shoplift all you want no 
prosecutionnow most retailers are or have left downtownthere like no 
people downtown only homelessso yea, no thanks...so again, why don't you go 
back to your Utopia that you Progressives created ??



Thanks,

Tom





-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 11:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

lol, gay hater huh. I've been to SF. It's a beautiful city. And jobs there are 
high paying. Maybe you'd prefer the states that always rate near the bottom in 
education, health care, GDP. Mostly Republican states. 70% of US GDP is in 
Democratic counties.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/election-2020-democrats-republicans-economy.html




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:45 PM, Savor, Thomas 
<0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Why don't you go move to the Utopia that you and your ilk created in San 
Francisco ??
Instead of spreading your disease somewhere else..

Thanks,

Tom

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 8:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.
Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
GDP.

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

No doubt you'll bash the World Health Organization because their rankings don't 
fit you "Opinion".

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 8:33 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:38:32 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> You're right, Europe is different. They actually care about people
> over profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better 
> quality of lives.

What world do you live in? For Germany, I will give you Infrastructure but 
everything beyond that is questionable.

German health care: I showed up at the hospital in agony. Sorry we can't help 
you. Where can I get help? What are your symptoms. This happened on 3 different 
occasions. If you have something cool to be cured, they are happy to help you.

German quality of life: There's a reason you get 6 weeks of vacation. Life is 
extremely stressful. Germans will tell you how loved they are in other 
countries but I can tell you from driving a car licensed in Germany, I got a 
lot of abuse until they realized I was American. When driving thru borders 
checking passports, always hold it upside down. The color makes them think you 
are from the UK otherwise you spend an hour for them to practice their english. 
If you drive to the UK and you have a carload of Brits, insert your passport 
upside down in the middle because they usually wave you through.

Care for you over profits: In Germany, every employee signs a long contract. 
Mine required 9 months notice but I know Germans with 2 years notice. At the 
end of 1 year in Germany, the company notified me that I must return the car 
because my drivers license was no longer valid for Germany. I told them sorry 
but I'm in the Netherlands and can't drive in Germany. My drivers license 
showed up the next day. Many companies have open floorplans without any walls 
except around the window offices. There are some nice per

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Savor, Thomas]

Not a gay hater...never said anything of the sort but hey nice 
diversioneverything you said, beautiful city...high paying 
jobsWAS..Place smells like sewage based on the shit people take in the 
sidewalk and street.  Hard to walk down the sidewalk step over/around the 
bums/shit/needles/tents and RV's everywhere.  You haven't been there in a while 
to miss your mess.  Oh, here's a good idea, you can shoplift all you want no 
prosecutionnow most retailers are or have left downtownthere like no 
people downtown only homelessso yea, no thanks...so again, why don't you go 
back to your Utopia that you Progressives created ??



Thanks,

Tom





-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 11:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

lol, gay hater huh. I've been to SF. It's a beautiful city. And jobs there are 
high paying. Maybe you'd prefer the states that always rate near the bottom in 
education, health care, GDP. Mostly Republican states. 70% of US GDP is in 
Democratic counties.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/election-2020-democrats-republicans-economy.html




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:45 PM, Savor, Thomas 
<0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Why don't you go move to the Utopia that you and your ilk created in San 
Francisco ??
Instead of spreading your disease somewhere else..

Thanks,

Tom

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 8:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.
Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
GDP.

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

No doubt you'll bash the World Health Organization because their rankings don't 
fit you "Opinion".

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 8:33 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:38:32 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> You're right, Europe is different. They actually care about people
> over profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better 
> quality of lives.

What world do you live in? For Germany, I will give you Infrastructure but 
everything beyond that is questionable.

German health care: I showed up at the hospital in agony. Sorry we can't help 
you. Where can I get help? What are your symptoms. This happened on 3 different 
occasions. If you have something cool to be cured, they are happy to help you.

German quality of life: There's a reason you get 6 weeks of vacation. Life is 
extremely stressful. Germans will tell you how loved they are in other 
countries but I can tell you from driving a car licensed in Germany, I got a 
lot of abuse until they realized I was American. When driving thru borders 
checking passports, always hold it upside down. The color makes them think you 
are from the UK otherwise you spend an hour for them to practice their english. 
If you drive to the UK and you have a carload of Brits, insert your passport 
upside down in the middle because they usually wave you through.

Care for you over profits: In Germany, every employee signs a long contract. 
Mine required 9 months notice but I know Germans with 2 years notice. At the 
end of 1 year in Germany, the company notified me that I must return the car 
because my drivers license was no longer valid for Germany. I told them sorry 
but I'm in the Netherlands and can't drive in Germany. My drivers license 
showed up the next day. Many companies have open floorplans without any walls 
except around the window offices. There are some nice perks but this is not 
about the care for you.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information 
contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do 
not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the 
sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to 
our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the 
intended recipient. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscrib

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

lol, gay hater huh. I’ve been to SF. It’s a beautiful city. And jobs there are 
high paying. Maybe you’d prefer the states that always rate near the bottom in 
education, health care, GDP. Mostly Republican states. 70% of US GDP is in 
Democratic counties.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/election-2020-democrats-republicans-economy.html




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:45 PM, Savor, Thomas 
<0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Why don't you go move to the Utopia that you and your ilk created in San 
Francisco ??
Instead of spreading your disease somewhere else..

Thanks,

Tom

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 8:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.
Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
GDP.

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

No doubt you'll bash the World Health Organization because their rankings don't 
fit you "Opinion".

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 8:33 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:38:32 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> You're right, Europe is different. They actually care about people
> over profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better 
> quality of lives.

What world do you live in? For Germany, I will give you Infrastructure but 
everything beyond that is questionable.

German health care: I showed up at the hospital in agony. Sorry we can't help 
you. Where can I get help? What are your symptoms. This happened on 3 different 
occasions. If you have something cool to be cured, they are happy to help you.

German quality of life: There's a reason you get 6 weeks of vacation. Life is 
extremely stressful. Germans will tell you how loved they are in other 
countries but I can tell you from driving a car licensed in Germany, I got a 
lot of abuse until they realized I was American. When driving thru borders 
checking passports, always hold it upside down. The color makes them think you 
are from the UK otherwise you spend an hour for them to practice their english. 
If you drive to the UK and you have a carload of Brits, insert your passport 
upside down in the middle because they usually wave you through.

Care for you over profits: In Germany, every employee signs a long contract. 
Mine required 9 months notice but I know Germans with 2 years notice. At the 
end of 1 year in Germany, the company notified me that I must return the car 
because my drivers license was no longer valid for Germany. I told them sorry 
but I'm in the Netherlands and can't drive in Germany. My drivers license 
showed up the next day. Many companies have open floorplans without any walls 
except around the window offices. There are some nice perks but this is not 
about the care for you.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. 
If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all 
copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and 
(iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any 
message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons 
other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

I worked for 15 years for a health insurance company. I’ve seen how & why US 
healthcare rates poorly. The ultimate goal of healthcare insurance companies is 
to take in premium and pay out as little as possible in claims. Health isn’t 
even a consideration. Profits are.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 9:40 PM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

France is 16th in life expectancy. US 47th. Germany 31st. Capitalism is a 
failure for health and life expectancy. 

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 9:31 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 05:43:51 PM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.

> Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

> The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
> GDP. 

So France being first in healthcare isn't 1st in life expectancy and buys you 6 
more years than the US. Numbers don't tell you cause and effect not the 
solution. I agree healthcare in the US is a major problem but playing the 
numbers game proves nothing. If you want to play the numbers game, then go to 
wonder.cdc.gov which you can look at all kinds of death numbers. 


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Savor, Thomas]

Why don't you go move to the Utopia that you and your ilk created in San 
Francisco ??
Instead of spreading your disease somewhere else..

Thanks,

Tom

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 8:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.
Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
GDP.

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

No doubt you'll bash the World Health Organization because their rankings don't 
fit you "Opinion".

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 8:33 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:38:32 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> You're right, Europe is different. They actually care about people
> over profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better 
> quality of lives.

What world do you live in? For Germany, I will give you Infrastructure but 
everything beyond that is questionable.

German health care: I showed up at the hospital in agony. Sorry we can't help 
you. Where can I get help? What are your symptoms. This happened on 3 different 
occasions. If you have something cool to be cured, they are happy to help you.

German quality of life: There's a reason you get 6 weeks of vacation. Life is 
extremely stressful. Germans will tell you how loved they are in other 
countries but I can tell you from driving a car licensed in Germany, I got a 
lot of abuse until they realized I was American. When driving thru borders 
checking passports, always hold it upside down. The color makes them think you 
are from the UK otherwise you spend an hour for them to practice their english. 
If you drive to the UK and you have a carload of Brits, insert your passport 
upside down in the middle because they usually wave you through.

Care for you over profits: In Germany, every employee signs a long contract. 
Mine required 9 months notice but I know Germans with 2 years notice. At the 
end of 1 year in Germany, the company notified me that I must return the car 
because my drivers license was no longer valid for Germany. I told them sorry 
but I'm in the Netherlands and can't drive in Germany. My drivers license 
showed up the next day. Many companies have open floorplans without any walls 
except around the window offices. There are some nice perks but this is not 
about the care for you.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. 
If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all 
copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and 
(iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any 
message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons 
other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

France is 16th in life expectancy. US 47th. Germany 31st. Capitalism is a 
failure for health and life expectancy. 

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 9:31 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 05:43:51 PM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.

> Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

> The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
> GDP. 

So France being first in healthcare isn't 1st in life expectancy and buys you 6 
more years than the US. Numbers don't tell you cause and effect not the 
solution. I agree healthcare in the US is a major problem but playing the 
numbers game proves nothing. If you want to play the numbers game, then go to 
wonder.cdc.gov which you can look at all kinds of death numbers. 


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jon Perryman]

 > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 05:43:51 PM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.

> Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

> The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
> GDP. 

So France being first in healthcare isn't 1st in life expectancy and buys you 6 
more years than the US. Numbers don't tell you cause and effect not the 
solution. I agree healthcare in the US is a major problem but playing the 
numbers game proves nothing. If you want to play the numbers game, then go to 
wonder.cdc.gov which you can look at all kinds of death numbers. 


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jon Perryman]

 > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:29:10 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> I never drove in the UK. Perhaps fearful of driving on the left side. 

I've found that driving in the UK has never been a problem. The problem comes 
on the first day back in Germany when I'm s**ting my pants on the autobahn 
madly searching for anything that tells me I'm driving on the right side. 
Somehow the mind can't determine left from right at that point.

Driving with Brits in the passenger seat is a blast. No steering wheel on what 
they consider the driver side. 

Most brits don't understand driving fast. I attended racecar training at Brands 
Hatch. A driver takes you around the course to scare you into driving slower. 
My driver was surprised and asked why I was so calm. I drive faster than this 
at home in Germany.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Health care, US is rated 30th. France 1st. Germany 6th.
Infant mortality. US is rated 50th.

The US health care system is number 1 in one thing, cost. Sucking down 18% of 
GDP. 

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

No doubt you’ll bash the World Health Organization because their rankings don’t 
fit you “Opinion”.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 8:33 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:38:32 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
> profits. 
> Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality of lives. 

What world do you live in? For Germany, I will give you Infrastructure but 
everything beyond that is questionable. 

German health care: I showed up at the hospital in agony. Sorry we can't help 
you. Where can I get help? What are your symptoms. This happened on 3 different 
occasions. If you have something cool to be cured, they are happy to help you.

German quality of life: There's a reason you get 6 weeks of vacation. Life is 
extremely stressful. Germans will tell you how loved they are in other 
countries but I can tell you from driving a car licensed in Germany, I got a 
lot of abuse until they realized I was American. When driving thru borders 
checking passports, always hold it upside down. The color makes them think you 
are from the UK otherwise you spend an hour for them to practice their english. 
If you drive to the UK and you have a carload of Brits, insert your passport 
upside down in the middle because they usually wave you through. 

Care for you over profits: In Germany, every employee signs a long contract. 
Mine required 9 months notice but I know Germans with 2 years notice. At the 
end of 1 year in Germany, the company notified me that I must return the car 
because my drivers license was no longer valid for Germany. I told them sorry 
but I'm in the Netherlands and can't drive in Germany. My drivers license 
showed up the next day. Many companies have open floorplans without any walls 
except around the window offices. There are some nice perks but this is not 
about the care for you.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jon Perryman]

 > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:38:32 AM PDT, Bill Johnson wrote:

> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
> profits. 
> Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality of lives. 

What world do you live in? For Germany, I will give you Infrastructure but 
everything beyond that is questionable. 

German health care: I showed up at the hospital in agony. Sorry we can't help 
you. Where can I get help? What are your symptoms. This happened on 3 different 
occasions. If you have something cool to be cured, they are happy to help you.

German quality of life: There's a reason you get 6 weeks of vacation. Life is 
extremely stressful. Germans will tell you how loved they are in other 
countries but I can tell you from driving a car licensed in Germany, I got a 
lot of abuse until they realized I was American. When driving thru borders 
checking passports, always hold it upside down. The color makes them think you 
are from the UK otherwise you spend an hour for them to practice their english. 
If you drive to the UK and you have a carload of Brits, insert your passport 
upside down in the middle because they usually wave you through. 

Care for you over profits: In Germany, every employee signs a long contract. 
Mine required 9 months notice but I know Germans with 2 years notice. At the 
end of 1 year in Germany, the company notified me that I must return the car 
because my drivers license was no longer valid for Germany. I told them sorry 
but I'm in the Netherlands and can't drive in Germany. My drivers license 
showed up the next day. Many companies have open floorplans without any walls 
except around the window offices. There are some nice perks but this is not 
about the care for you.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jon Perryman]

 > In Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 07:29:42 AM PDT, Bill Johnson  wrote:
> Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not frequently. And 
> American roads are 
> way more dangerous than European roads. The data (facts) are clear.


I suspect heavy loads are better when it's windy. You have to push the center 
of gravity past the wheels. From experience, coaches can be scary when it's 
windy because they are like a sail.

As for dangerous, Germany is less about road safety and more about car / 
driving skills. More than once I've seen mirrors fly. More than once I've seen 
a Trabant become a Mercedes hood ornament after the wall came down. It's easier 
to drive fast and look forward than drive slow continually looking in your 
mirrors. With Mercedes driving at 200 MPH, Trabants at 50MPH were not choosing 
wisely. Reaction time is amazingly fast when you drive at 200 MPH when you see 
people stop in short distances. There's a reason ABS was developed first in 
Germany. I remember driving 140MPH when a motorcycle passed me like I was 
standing still and his RPMs so high I thought I was losing a wheel until I saw 
him next to me. Country roads where both sides drive on the shoulder because 
cars constantly come barreling down the middle. With all the mayhem, I saw 
fewer accidents than in USA. 



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

No, I wasn’t including the UK. I’ve been to England twice, Ireland, Northern 
Ireland, & Scotland. I never drove in the UK. Perhaps fearful of driving on the 
left side. I took tours via bus or van, (Bath, Stonehenge) and rail to Windsor. 
Tours (bus, rail, van, car) in Scotland, Ireland, & Northern Ireland.

The highways in Europe are just as big as US highways. And that’s what we are 
talking about. Not back roads.

The trucks in Europe don’t pass much. Because the max speed is 54 MPH. And they 
are all doing the max. It’s truly unusual to watch. Cars are flying by what is 
a long line of trucks. Looks like a convoy. And the trucks are much smaller 
than US trucks.

Americans also don’t understand the autobahn. Most think it is 1 road with 
unlimited speed limit. It’s not 1 road and the unlimited speeds aren’t on the 
entire length of road but actually goes down near cities. In fact, it goes down 
below where most US highways limit is within cities. For the safety of people. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 1:58 PM, Jeremy Nicoll 
 wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 14:07, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I’ve driven roads in Europe. 

Which definition of Europe are you using?  That is, are you including
the uK (recently in the EU but no longer)?

>Every truck is in the right most lane, unless they are passing which 
>isn’t common.

Isn't it?  Do you think the faster ones drive over the slower ones, then?


> It’s nothing like the US

Did anyone ever suggest it might be?  I've never been in the US, but
I've driven tour coaches in France albeit not all that recently.

 > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds.

The US roads you're talking about - and the European ones - are
presumably just the (UK) motorways, German autobahns etc.

There's significantly smaller roads in a lot of places.  Eg there are no
motorways in Scotland north of Perth or thereabouts.  But the
supermarkets still send 44 ton trucks up there.  They are not able to
travel fast.

> In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross 
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a 
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).

There must be some exceptions to that, maybe in older vehicles.


-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 14:07, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I’ve driven roads in Europe. 

Which definition of Europe are you using?  That is, are you including
the uK (recently in the EU but no longer)?

>Every truck is in the right most lane, unless they are passing which 
>isn’t common.

Isn't it?  Do you think the faster ones drive over the slower ones, then?


> It’s nothing like the US

Did anyone ever suggest it might be?  I've never been in the US, but
I've driven tour coaches in France albeit not all that recently.

 > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds.

The US roads you're talking about - and the European ones - are
presumably just the (UK) motorways, German autobahns etc.

There's significantly smaller roads in a lot of places.  Eg there are no
motorways in Scotland north of Perth or thereabouts.  But the
supermarkets still send 44 ton trucks up there.  They are not able to
travel fast.

> In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross 
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a 
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).

There must be some exceptions to that, maybe in older vehicles.


-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

And yet you respond to the off topic threads.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 12:26 PM, David Spiegel 
<0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Hi Bill,
AFAIK, this forum is not for discussing US politics.
If it were, I would retort.

Regards,
David

On 2023-08-08 10:48, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went to 
> Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are 
> Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his 
> utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard  
> wrote:
>
> If you want Europe, you know where to find it.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
>> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
>> of lives.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
>> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
>>
>> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
>> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
>>> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
>>> frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
>> roads.
>>> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
>>> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
>>> Tanker endorsements.
>>>
>>> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
>>> box truck once into Canada.
>>>
>>> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>>>
>>> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
>>> trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
>>> governors at all.
>>>
>>> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
>>> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
>>> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
>>> down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
>>> whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
>>> I started driving back about 2004.
>>>
>>> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
>>> effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>>>
>>> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
>>> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
>>> not jack knife.
>>>
>>> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
>>> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
>>> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
>>> a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
>>> was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
>>> beams).
>>>
>>> Stick to what you know.
>>>
>>> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Steve Thompson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
 I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
>>> unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
>>> trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s
>> exactly
>>> why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
>>> excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
 In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
>>> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
>>> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).

 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
>>> jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
 On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
 Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

 An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
 be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
 sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
 reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
 or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.

> The trucks all 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

lol no doubt a MAGA.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 12:33 PM, David Spiegel 
<0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Hi R'Shmuel AMV"SH,
+3 ... for Canada's PM.

Regards,
David

On 2023-08-08 11:18, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> It was obvious in 2016, but we don't have a monopoly on electing bad leaders.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:48 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems
>
> I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went to 
> Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are 
> Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his 
> utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard  
> wrote:
>
> If you want Europe, you know where to find it.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
>> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
>> of lives.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
>> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
>>
>> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
>> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
>>> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
>>> frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
>> roads.
>>> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
>>> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
>>> Tanker endorsements.
>>>
>>> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
>>> box truck once into Canada.
>>>
>>> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>>>
>>> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
>>> trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
>>> governors at all.
>>>
>>> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
>>> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
>>> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
>>> down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
>>> whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
>>> I started driving back about 2004.
>>>
>>> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
>>> effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>>>
>>> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
>>> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
>>> not jack knife.
>>>
>>> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
>>> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
>>> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
>>> a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
>>> was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
>>> beams).
>>>
>>> Stick to what you know.
>>>
>>> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Steve Thompson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>>> I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
>>> unless they are passing which isn’t commo

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Blazing Saddles is right up your alley. Is the fart sequence your fav?
I’ve looked into leaving. If trump is reelected, I’ve got a number of options. 
I’m only 2 hours from Toronto. They’ve got better health care. Affordable 
pharmaceuticals.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 12:43 PM, David Spiegel 
<0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Hi Bill,
Here is a quote from Blazing Saddles: "Lozim Geiyen".
If you're so enthralled with Europe why not just leave already and stop 
torturing yourself in this deplorable continent?

Regards,
David

On 2023-08-08 10:38, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality 
> of lives.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard  
> wrote:
>
> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
>
> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
>> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
>> frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
>> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
>> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
>> Tanker endorsements.
>>
>> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
>> box truck once into Canada.
>>
>> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>>
>> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
>> trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
>> governors at all.
>>
>> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
>> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
>> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
>> down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
>> whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
>> I started driving back about 2004.
>>
>> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
>> effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>>
>> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
>> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
>> not jack knife.
>>
>> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
>> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
>> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
>> a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
>> was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
>> beams).
>>
>> Stick to what you know.
>>
>> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>>
>> Steve Thompson
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
>> unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
>> trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly
>> why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
>> excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
>>> In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
>> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
>> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
>> jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
 In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
>>> Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
>>>
>>> An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
>>> be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
>>> sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
>>> reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
>>> or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
>>>
 The trucks all have governors.
>>> No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
>>> the actual speed.
>>>
 They are also all in the right lane.
>>> By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
>>> lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
>>> lane while overtaking a slower truck.
>>>
>>>
>> 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[David Spiegel]

Hi Bill,
Here is a quote from Blazing Saddles: "Lozim Geiyen".
If you're so enthralled with Europe why not just leave already and stop 
torturing yourself in this deplorable continent?


Regards,
David

On 2023-08-08 10:38, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality of 
lives.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
wrote:

I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
Tanker endorsements.

I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
box truck once into Canada.

Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.

Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
governors at all.

I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
I started driving back about 2004.

Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.

I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
not jack knife.

Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
beams).

Stick to what you know.

Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.

Steve Thompson



On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,

unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly
why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.

In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross

vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <

jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:

In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.

Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.


The trucks all have governors.

No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
the actual speed.


They are also all in the right lane.

By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
lane while overtaking a slower truck.



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN





--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[David Spiegel]

Hi R'Shmuel AMV"SH,
+3 ... for Canada's PM.

Regards,
David

On 2023-08-08 11:18, Seymour J Metz wrote:

It was obvious in 2016, but we don't have a monopoly on electing bad leaders.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went to 
Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are 
Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his 
utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

If you want Europe, you know where to find it.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
of lives.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European

roads.

The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
wrote:

I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
Tanker endorsements.

I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
box truck once into Canada.

Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.

Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
governors at all.

I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
I started driving back about 2004.

Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.

I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
not jack knife.

Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
beams).

Stick to what you know.

Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.

Steve Thompson



On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,

unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s

exactly

why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.

In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross

vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <

jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:

In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.

Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.


The trucks all have governors.

No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
the actual speed.


They are also all in the right l

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[David Spiegel]

Hi Bill,
AFAIK, this forum is not for discussing US politics.
If it were, I would retort.

Regards,
David

On 2023-08-08 10:48, Bill Johnson wrote:

I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went to 
Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are 
Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his 
utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

If you want Europe, you know where to find it.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
of lives.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European

roads.

The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
wrote:

I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
Tanker endorsements.

I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
box truck once into Canada.

Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.

Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
governors at all.

I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
I started driving back about 2004.

Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.

I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
not jack knife.

Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
beams).

Stick to what you know.

Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.

Steve Thompson



On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,

unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s

exactly

why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.

In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross

vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <

jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:

In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.

Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.


The trucks all have governors.

No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
the actual speed.


They are also all in the right lane.

By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
lane while overtaking a slower truck.



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Doug Fuerst]

Please take the political crap elsewhere.

Doug Fuerst


-- Original Message --

From "ITschak Mugzach" 

To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 8/8/2023 11:54:29 AM
Subject Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises 
systems



Tell me about it, Shmuel ... 

ITschak

בתאריך יום ג׳, 8 באוג׳ 2023 ב-18:19 מאת Seymour J Metz :


 It was obvious in 2016, but we don't have a monopoly on electing bad
 leaders.


 --
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

 
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
 of Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:48 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
 systems

 I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went
 to Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are
 Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his
 utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.


 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard 
 wrote:

 If you want Europe, you know where to find it.

 On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

 > You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
 > profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better
 quality
 > of lives.
 >
 >
 > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 >
 >
 > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
 > wrote:
 >
 > In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe,
 in
 > many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
 >
 > But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
 > defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
 >
 > On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
 > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
 >
 > > Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
 > > whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but
 not
 > > frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
 > roads.
 > > The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican
 choice.
 > >
 > >
 > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 > >
 > >
 > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
 > > wrote:
 > >
 > > I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
 > > countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
 > > Tanker endorsements.
 > >
 > > I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
 > > box truck once into Canada.
 > >
 > > Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
 > >
 > > Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
 > > trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
 > > governors at all.
 > >
 > > I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
 > > mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
 > > The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
 > > down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
 > > whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
 > > I started driving back about 2004.
 > >
 > > Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
 > > effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
 > >
 > > I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
 > > I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
 > > not jack knife.
 > >
 > > Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
 > > I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
 > > physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
 > > a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
 > > was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
 > > beams).
 > >
 > > Stick to what you know.
 > >
 > > Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
 > >
 > > Steve Thompson
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
 > > > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
 > > unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
 > > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s
 > exactly
 > > why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as
 an
 > > excuse is

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[ITschak Mugzach]

Tell me about it, Shmuel ... 

ITschak

בתאריך יום ג׳, 8 באוג׳ 2023 ב-18:19 מאת Seymour J Metz :

> It was obvious in 2016, but we don't have a monopoly on electing bad
> leaders.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:48 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
> systems
>
> I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went
> to Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are
> Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his
> utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard 
> wrote:
>
> If you want Europe, you know where to find it.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
> > profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better
> quality
> > of lives.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
> > wrote:
> >
> > In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe,
> in
> > many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
> >
> > But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
> > defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> > > whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but
> not
> > > frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
> > roads.
> > > The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican
> choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> > > countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> > > Tanker endorsements.
> > >
> > > I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> > > box truck once into Canada.
> > >
> > > Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
> > >
> > > Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> > > trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> > > governors at all.
> > >
> > > I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> > > mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> > > The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> > > down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> > > whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> > > I started driving back about 2004.
> > >
> > > Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> > > effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
> > >
> > > I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> > > I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> > > not jack knife.
> > >
> > > Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> > > I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> > > physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> > > a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> > > was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> > > beams).
> > >
> > > Stick to what you know.
> > >
> > > Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Steve Thompson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> > > unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Seymour J Metz]

It was obvious in 2016, but we don't have a monopoly on electing bad leaders.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went to 
Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are 
Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his 
utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

If you want Europe, you know where to find it.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
> of lives.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
> wrote:
>
> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
>
> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> > whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> > frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
> roads.
> > The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> > countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> > Tanker endorsements.
> >
> > I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> > box truck once into Canada.
> >
> > Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
> >
> > Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> > trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> > governors at all.
> >
> > I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> > mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> > The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> > down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> > whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> > I started driving back about 2004.
> >
> > Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> > effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
> >
> > I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> > I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> > not jack knife.
> >
> > Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> > I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> > physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> > a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> > was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> > beams).
> >
> > Stick to what you know.
> >
> > Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
> >
> > Steve Thompson
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> > unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s
> exactly
> > why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> > excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> > vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> > governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> > jn.ls.

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Kirk Wolf]

ibm-main is really terrific.  Where else can you go to discuss current 
technologies but get so much deep expertise in both computer history and 
transportation policy.   

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies

PS> Beware of "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc"

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023, at 9:38 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality 
> of lives. 
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard  
> wrote:
> 
> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
> 
> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> > whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> > frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
> > The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> > countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> > Tanker endorsements.
> >
> > I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> > box truck once into Canada.
> >
> > Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
> >
> > Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> > trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> > governors at all.
> >
> > I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> > mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> > The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> > down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> > whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> > I started driving back about 2004.
> >
> > Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> > effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
> >
> > I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> > I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> > not jack knife.
> >
> > Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> > I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> > physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> > a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> > was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> > beams).
> >
> > Stick to what you know.
> >
> > Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
> >
> > Steve Thompson
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> > unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly
> > why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> > excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> > vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> > governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> > jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> > >
> > > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> > > sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> > > reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> > > or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
> > >
> > >> The trucks all have governors.
> > > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> > > the actual speed.
> > >
> > >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > > By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> > > lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> > > lane while overtaking a slower truck.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

I have many times. And heading to Spain in October. Funny story, we went to 
Switzerland right after trump got elected. Many people asked us WTF are 
Americans thinking electing him. After numerous indictments, lies, and his 
utter stupidity, now we know why they asked that.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:43 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

If you want Europe, you know where to find it.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
> of lives.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
> wrote:
>
> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
>
> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> > whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> > frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
> roads.
> > The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> > countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> > Tanker endorsements.
> >
> > I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> > box truck once into Canada.
> >
> > Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
> >
> > Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> > trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> > governors at all.
> >
> > I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> > mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> > The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> > down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> > whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> > I started driving back about 2004.
> >
> > Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> > effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
> >
> > I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> > I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> > not jack knife.
> >
> > Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> > I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> > physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> > a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> > was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> > beams).
> >
> > Stick to what you know.
> >
> > Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
> >
> > Steve Thompson
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> > unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s
> exactly
> > why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> > excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> > vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> > governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> > jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> > >
> > > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> > > sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> > > reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> > > or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
> > >
> > >> The trucks all have governors.
> > > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> > > the actual speed.
> > >
> > >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > > By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> > > lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> > > lane while overtaking a slower truck.
> > >
> > >
> >
> 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jay Maynard]

If you want Europe, you know where to find it.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over
> profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality
> of lives.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard 
> wrote:
>
> In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
> many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.
>
> But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
> defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> > whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> > frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European
> roads.
> > The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> > countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> > Tanker endorsements.
> >
> > I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> > box truck once into Canada.
> >
> > Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
> >
> > Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> > trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> > governors at all.
> >
> > I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> > mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> > The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> > down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> > whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> > I started driving back about 2004.
> >
> > Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> > effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
> >
> > I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> > I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> > not jack knife.
> >
> > Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> > I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> > physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> > a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> > was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> > beams).
> >
> > Stick to what you know.
> >
> > Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
> >
> > Steve Thompson
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> > unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> > trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s
> exactly
> > why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> > excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> > vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> > governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> > jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> > >
> > > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> > > sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> > > reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> > > or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
> > >
> > >> The trucks all have governors.
> > > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> > > the actual speed.
> > >
> > >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > > By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> > > lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> > > lane while overtaking a slower truck.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

You’re right, Europe is different. They actually care about people over 
profits. Much better infrastructure, better health care, and better quality of 
lives. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> wrote:
>
> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> Tanker endorsements.
>
> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> box truck once into Canada.
>
> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>
> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> governors at all.
>
> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> I started driving back about 2004.
>
> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>
> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> not jack knife.
>
> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> beams).
>
> Stick to what you know.
>
> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>
> Steve Thompson
>
>
>
> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly
> why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> >
> > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> > sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> > reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> > or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
> >
> >> The trucks all have governors.
> > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> > the actual speed.
> >
> >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> > lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> > lane while overtaking a slower truck.
> >
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Jay Maynard

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

They aren’t opinions, learn the difference.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:34 AM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> wrote:
>
> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> Tanker endorsements.
>
> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> box truck once into Canada.
>
> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>
> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> governors at all.
>
> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> I started driving back about 2004.
>
> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>
> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> not jack knife.
>
> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> beams).
>
> Stick to what you know.
>
> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>
> Steve Thompson
>
>
>
> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly
> why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> >
> > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> > sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> > reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> > or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
> >
> >> The trucks all have governors.
> > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> > the actual speed.
> >
> >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> > lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> > lane while overtaking a slower truck.
> >
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Jay Maynard

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jay Maynard]

In case you haven't noticed, the US is much, much different from Europe, in
many ways big and little that bear on this discussion.

But, in typical Bill Johnson fashion, he's convinced he's right and will
defend his opinions, well-informed or not, to the death.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 9:29 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his
> whole life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not
> frequently. And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads.
> The data (facts) are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson 
> wrote:
>
> I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island
> countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and
> Tanker endorsements.
>
> I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a
> box truck once into Canada.
>
> Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.
>
> Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their
> trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no
> governors at all.
>
> I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel
> mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA.
> The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be
> down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or
> whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since
> I started driving back about 2004.
>
> Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its
> effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.
>
> I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross).
> I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to
> not jack knife.
>
> Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents.
> I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of
> physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving
> a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight
> was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn
> beams).
>
> Stick to what you know.
>
> Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.
>
> Steve Thompson
>
>
>
> On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane,
> unless they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US
> trucking which is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly
> why the carnage on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an
> excuse is just silly. Or speed differential.
> > In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross
> vehicle weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a
> governor that limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll <
> jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> > Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
> >
> > An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> > be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> > sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> > reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> > or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
> >
> >> The trucks all have governors.
> > No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> > the actual speed.
> >
> >> They are also all in the right lane.
> > By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> > lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> > lane while overtaking a slower truck.
> >
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Jay Maynard

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Lol, you should have followed your own advice. My dad drove truck his whole 
life. Never once did wind cause an issue. Yeah, it happens, but not frequently. 
And American roads are way more dangerous than European roads. The data (facts) 
are clear. So profit over lives is a Republican choice.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 10:20 AM, Steve Thompson  wrote:

I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island 
countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and 
Tanker endorsements.

I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a 
box truck once into Canada.

Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.

Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their 
trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no 
governors at all.

I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel 
mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA. 
The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be 
down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or 
whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since 
I started driving back about 2004.

Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its 
effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.

I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross). 
I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to 
not jack knife.

Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents. 
I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of 
physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving 
a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight 
was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn 
beams).

Stick to what you know.

Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.

Steve Thompson



On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane, unless 
> they are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US trucking which 
> is designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly why the carnage 
> on US highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an excuse is just 
> silly. Or speed differential.
> In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross vehicle 
> weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a governor that 
> limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll 
>  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.
> Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.
>
> An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
> be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
> sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
> reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
> or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.
>
>> The trucks all have governors.
> No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
> the actual speed.
>
>> They are also all in the right lane.
> By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
> lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
> lane while overtaking a slower truck.
>
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Steve Thompson]

I've driven in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and some island 
countries. And I held, for over 15 years a CDL-A with Multi and 
Tanker endorsements.


I did not drive LKW (semis) anywhere but within the USofA. And a 
box truck once into Canada.


Stick to what you know, not what what the Huffy post or others say.

Governors are used by different companies. Some limit their 
trucks to 64MPH. Owner operators can get their trucks with no 
governors at all.


I have a son-in-law that is finishing his training to be a Diesel 
mechanic able to work on all the current Tractors in the USofA. 
The electronics are unbelievable, and can cause that truck to be 
down for weeks waiting on some solid state relay board (or 
whatever). The world of trucking has changed significantly since 
I started driving back about 2004.


Because I'm also a pilot, I know a bit about wind and its 
effects. Stick to what you know, what you have experienced.


I've seen fully loaded trucks get blown over (55,000+ gross). 
I've seen trucks lose control in snow and swap ends. Managed to 
not jack knife.


Thankfully I never had any problems, no accidents, no incidents. 
I was lucky and I was a novice and just applied my knowledge of 
physics and energy management that I learned in flying to driving 
a 70,000 gross weight truck. I loaded the trucks so the weight 
was more at the bottom than top (I had specialty loads of barn 
beams).


Stick to what you know.

Take this crap out of here and go argue it elsewhere.

Steve Thompson



On 8/8/2023 9:07 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane, unless they 
are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US trucking which is 
designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly why the carnage on US 
highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an excuse is just silly. Or 
speed differential.
In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross vehicle 
weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a governor that 
limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll 
 wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:

In Europe all the trucks go the same speed.

Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might
be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.


The trucks all have governors.

No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not
the actual speed.


They are also all in the right lane.

By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
lane while overtaking a slower truck.




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

I’ve driven roads in Europe. Every truck is in the right most lane, unless they 
are passing which isn’t common. It’s nothing like the US trucking which is 
designed for large trucks and fast speeds. That’s exactly why the carnage on US 
highways from trucks is way higher. And wind as an excuse is just silly. Or 
speed differential.
In Germany and other European Union counties, trucks with a gross vehicle 
weight rating of 3.5 tonnes (7,700 pounds) or more must have a governor that 
limits their speed to 90 kph (54 miles per hour).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 8, 2023, 3:52 AM, Jeremy Nicoll 
 wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed. 

Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might 
be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.

> The trucks all have governors.

No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not 
the actual speed.

> They are also all in the right lane.

By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
lane while overtaking a slower truck.


-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023, at 01:56, Bill Johnson wrote:
> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed. 

Rubbish.  Age of truck and how heavy its load is are certainly factors.

An unloaded truck, is a lot more susceptible to high winds so might 
be driven slower in those conditions; trucks with no load with curtain-
sides often have their curtains open in high winds to significantly
reduce wind effects.  But that's impossible if there's a partial load
or nowhere safe for the driver to open (and tie back) the curtains.

> The trucks all have governors.

No they don't.  Some do.  Even so it sets a maximum speed not 
the actual speed.

> They are also all in the right lane.

By "right" do you mean "correct"?  Or do you mean the slowest
lane?  In any case trucks are permitted to be in the next fastest
lane while overtaking a slower truck.


-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Mike Schwab]

Another big factor is that warehouses must be supplied by rail in Europe.
 That eliminates the multi day trips requiring sleeper cabs in the US.  And
they are limited by narrower roads, some from Roman times.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023, 19:56 Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> In Europe all the trucks go the same speed. The trucks all have governors.
> They are also all in the right lane. Explain why American roads are much
> more dangerous? Show me that “research”.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023, 8:49 PM, Jay Maynard 
> wrote:
>
> There's one thing you're ignoring: research shows that speed differential
> is more of a factor in accidents and injuries than absolute speed. A truck
> going 10 MPH slower than the rest of traffic is more of a hazard than a
> truck moving at traffic speed, even at 70 MPH.
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:02 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > European roads are way better than US roads. Size & speed are the 2 most
> > important factors in accidents. A larger/heavier vehicle traveling at a
> > high rate of speed takes much longer to stop than a lighter slower
> vehicle.
> > Basic physics. Wet or icy roads even longer stopping distance. That
> > explains why this is true.
> >
> > Most EU member states have fewer than 80 road deaths per million people
> > per year. Most U.S. states have more — and ten have at least double that
> > figure. Even Romania, the worst performer in the EU, is doing better than
> > almost half of all U.S. states.Jun 1, 2022
> >
> > Profits take preference over lives.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:46 PM, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per
> > kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric).
> And,
> > yes, there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road
> > surface.
> >
> > Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent
> > variables, so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison:
> > large-fast, large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is
> > more relevant than size, but data trump suspicions. And what about
> shipping
> > by rail or, where feasible, by boat?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >
> > ________
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> > of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
> > systems
> >
> > This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel
> > offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths"
> may
> > not be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that
> > if we had smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in
> accidents
> > caused by bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die
> > because of smaller trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to
> > deaths, not simply deaths to nothing.
> >
> > Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal
> > less cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only
> > surmise) that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to
> > produce more.  Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.
> And
> > all of it would translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that
> > poorer people would have increased difficulty affording the goods that
> are
> > cheaper now.
> >
> > Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not;
> > I'm just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help
> > unless you can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if
> anyone
> > thinks there'd be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut
> > up.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> > /* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC)
> */
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: M

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Also. 
As a general rule, HGV drivers cannot drive on Sunday in Europe. The driving 
bans normally start at 10pm or midnight on the Saturday until 10pm on the 
Sunday. There are some exceptions for trucks carrying perishable goods and 
those en-route to sporting events or exhibitions.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 8:58 PM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Only when the differential is large and people aren’t paying attention.

Some of the potential dangers of speed differentials include: Increased risk of 
collisions: When there is a large speed differential between vehicles, it can 
increase the risk of collisions, especially if drivers are not paying attention 
or are not able to react quickly enough.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 8:49 PM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

There's one thing you're ignoring: research shows that speed differential
is more of a factor in accidents and injuries than absolute speed. A truck
going 10 MPH slower than the rest of traffic is more of a hazard than a
truck moving at traffic speed, even at 70 MPH.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:02 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> European roads are way better than US roads. Size & speed are the 2 most
> important factors in accidents. A larger/heavier vehicle traveling at a
> high rate of speed takes much longer to stop than a lighter slower vehicle.
> Basic physics. Wet or icy roads even longer stopping distance. That
> explains why this is true.
>
> Most EU member states have fewer than 80 road deaths per million people
> per year. Most U.S. states have more — and ten have at least double that
> figure. Even Romania, the worst performer in the EU, is doing better than
> almost half of all U.S. states.Jun 1, 2022
>
> Profits take preference over lives.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:46 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per
> kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric). And,
> yes, there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road
> surface.
>
> Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent
> variables, so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison:
> large-fast, large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is
> more relevant than size, but data trump suspicions. And what about shipping
> by rail or, where feasible, by boat?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
> systems
>
> This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel
> offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may
> not be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that
> if we had smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents
> caused by bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die
> because of smaller trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to
> deaths, not simply deaths to nothing.
>
> Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal
> less cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only
> surmise) that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to
> produce more.  Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And
> all of it would translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that
> poorer people would have increased difficulty affording the goods that are
> cheaper now.
>
> Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not;
> I'm just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help
> unless you can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone
> thinks there'd be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut
> up.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45
>
> For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much
> smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their
> speed, and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer
> tra

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Only when the differential is large and people aren’t paying attention.

Some of the potential dangers of speed differentials include: Increased risk of 
collisions: When there is a large speed differential between vehicles, it can 
increase the risk of collisions, especially if drivers are not paying attention 
or are not able to react quickly enough.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 8:49 PM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

There's one thing you're ignoring: research shows that speed differential
is more of a factor in accidents and injuries than absolute speed. A truck
going 10 MPH slower than the rest of traffic is more of a hazard than a
truck moving at traffic speed, even at 70 MPH.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:02 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> European roads are way better than US roads. Size & speed are the 2 most
> important factors in accidents. A larger/heavier vehicle traveling at a
> high rate of speed takes much longer to stop than a lighter slower vehicle.
> Basic physics. Wet or icy roads even longer stopping distance. That
> explains why this is true.
>
> Most EU member states have fewer than 80 road deaths per million people
> per year. Most U.S. states have more — and ten have at least double that
> figure. Even Romania, the worst performer in the EU, is doing better than
> almost half of all U.S. states.Jun 1, 2022
>
> Profits take preference over lives.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:46 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per
> kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric). And,
> yes, there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road
> surface.
>
> Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent
> variables, so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison:
> large-fast, large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is
> more relevant than size, but data trump suspicions. And what about shipping
> by rail or, where feasible, by boat?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
> systems
>
> This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel
> offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may
> not be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that
> if we had smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents
> caused by bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die
> because of smaller trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to
> deaths, not simply deaths to nothing.
>
> Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal
> less cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only
> surmise) that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to
> produce more.  Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And
> all of it would translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that
> poorer people would have increased difficulty affording the goods that are
> cheaper now.
>
> Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not;
> I'm just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help
> unless you can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone
> thinks there'd be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut
> up.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45
>
> For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much
> smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their
> speed, and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer
> traffic deaths involving trucks.
>
> In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles
> are much smaller.
>
> Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.
>
> So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more
> people alive.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

In Europe all the trucks go the same speed. The trucks all have governors. They 
are also all in the right lane. Explain why American roads are much more 
dangerous? Show me that “research”.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 8:49 PM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

There's one thing you're ignoring: research shows that speed differential
is more of a factor in accidents and injuries than absolute speed. A truck
going 10 MPH slower than the rest of traffic is more of a hazard than a
truck moving at traffic speed, even at 70 MPH.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:02 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> European roads are way better than US roads. Size & speed are the 2 most
> important factors in accidents. A larger/heavier vehicle traveling at a
> high rate of speed takes much longer to stop than a lighter slower vehicle.
> Basic physics. Wet or icy roads even longer stopping distance. That
> explains why this is true.
>
> Most EU member states have fewer than 80 road deaths per million people
> per year. Most U.S. states have more — and ten have at least double that
> figure. Even Romania, the worst performer in the EU, is doing better than
> almost half of all U.S. states.Jun 1, 2022
>
> Profits take preference over lives.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:46 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per
> kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric). And,
> yes, there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road
> surface.
>
> Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent
> variables, so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison:
> large-fast, large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is
> more relevant than size, but data trump suspicions. And what about shipping
> by rail or, where feasible, by boat?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
> systems
>
> This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel
> offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may
> not be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that
> if we had smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents
> caused by bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die
> because of smaller trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to
> deaths, not simply deaths to nothing.
>
> Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal
> less cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only
> surmise) that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to
> produce more.  Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And
> all of it would translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that
> poorer people would have increased difficulty affording the goods that are
> cheaper now.
>
> Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not;
> I'm just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help
> unless you can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone
> thinks there'd be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut
> up.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45
>
> For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much
> smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their
> speed, and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer
> traffic deaths involving trucks.
>
> In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles
> are much smaller.
>
> Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.
>
> So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more
> people alive.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> ---

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jay Maynard]

There's one thing you're ignoring: research shows that speed differential
is more of a factor in accidents and injuries than absolute speed. A truck
going 10 MPH slower than the rest of traffic is more of a hazard than a
truck moving at traffic speed, even at 70 MPH.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:02 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> European roads are way better than US roads. Size & speed are the 2 most
> important factors in accidents. A larger/heavier vehicle traveling at a
> high rate of speed takes much longer to stop than a lighter slower vehicle.
> Basic physics. Wet or icy roads even longer stopping distance. That
> explains why this is true.
>
> Most EU member states have fewer than 80 road deaths per million people
> per year. Most U.S. states have more — and ten have at least double that
> figure. Even Romania, the worst performer in the EU, is doing better than
> almost half of all U.S. states.Jun 1, 2022
>
> Profits take preference over lives.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:46 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per
> kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric). And,
> yes, there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road
> surface.
>
> Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent
> variables, so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison:
> large-fast, large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is
> more relevant than size, but data trump suspicions. And what about shipping
> by rail or, where feasible, by boat?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises
> systems
>
> This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel
> offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may
> not be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that
> if we had smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents
> caused by bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die
> because of smaller trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to
> deaths, not simply deaths to nothing.
>
> Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal
> less cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only
> surmise) that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to
> produce more.  Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And
> all of it would translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that
> poorer people would have increased difficulty affording the goods that are
> cheaper now.
>
> Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not;
> I'm just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help
> unless you can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone
> thinks there'd be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut
> up.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45
>
> For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much
> smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their
> speed, and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer
> traffic deaths involving trucks.
>
> In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles
> are much smaller.
>
> Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.
>
> So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more
> people alive.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

European roads are way better than US roads. Size & speed are the 2 most 
important factors in accidents. A larger/heavier vehicle traveling at a high 
rate of speed takes much longer to stop than a lighter slower vehicle. Basic 
physics. Wet or icy roads even longer stopping distance. That explains why this 
is true.

Most EU member states have fewer than 80 road deaths per million people per 
year. Most U.S. states have more — and ten have at least double that figure. 
Even Romania, the worst performer in the EU, is doing better than almost half 
of all U.S. states.Jun 1, 2022

Profits take preference over lives.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:46 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per 
kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric). And, yes, 
there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road surface.

Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent variables, 
so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison: large-fast, 
large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is more relevant than 
size, but data trump suspicions. And what about shipping by rail or, where 
feasible, by boat?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel 
offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may not 
be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that if we had 
smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents caused by 
bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die because of smaller 
trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to deaths, not simply deaths to 
nothing.

Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal less 
cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only surmise) 
that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to produce more.  
Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And all of it would 
translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that poorer people would 
have increased difficulty affording the goods that are cheaper now.

Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not; I'm 
just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help unless you 
can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone thinks there'd 
be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut up.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Seymour J Metz]

I'm assuming that Bill Johnson has look at statistics on deaths per 
kilogram-kilometer (or deaths per ton-mile if you don't like Metric). And, yes, 
there are other factors affecting that, e.g., condition of road surface.

Personally, I think that truck speed and truck size are independent variables, 
so I would like to see a study that did a four-way comparison: large-fast, 
large, slow, small-fast, small-slow. I suspect that speed is more relevant than 
size, but data trump suspicions. And what about shipping by rail or, where 
feasible, by boat?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 7:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel 
offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may not 
be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that if we had 
smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents caused by 
bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die because of smaller 
trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to deaths, not simply deaths to 
nothing.

Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal less 
cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only surmise) 
that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to produce more.  
Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And all of it would 
translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that poorer people would 
have increased difficulty affording the goods that are cheaper now.

Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not; I'm 
just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help unless you 
can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone thinks there'd 
be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut up.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

America should never allow trucks as large as we do. Should also not permit 
doubles and even triples and all trucks should have a lower speed limit. But we 
all know lives aren’t nearly as important as profits for trucking companies. 
America also had an opportunity to limit the size of regular vehicles and 
fossil fuels usage but failed miserably because Americans are self centered, 
piggish, and environmental denialists.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:32 PM, Bob Bridges  wrote:

This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel 
offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may not 
be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that if we had 
smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents caused by 
bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die because of smaller 
trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to deaths, not simply deaths to 
nothing.

Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal less 
cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only surmise) 
that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to produce more.  
Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And all of it would 
translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that poorer people would 
have increased difficulty affording the goods that are cheaper now.

Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not; I'm 
just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help unless you 
can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone thinks there'd 
be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut up.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bob Bridges]

This is off-topic, and I'll happily take it up with both Bill and Shmuel 
offline if requested.  But I may as well point out that "fewer deaths" may not 
be as simple as they're assuming.  It seems likely to me as well that if we had 
smaller trucks going slower, fewer people would die in accidents caused by 
bigger trucks going faster.  But how many people would die because of smaller 
trucks going slower?  You gotta compare deaths to deaths, not simply deaths to 
nothing.

Why would people die from smaller trucks going slower?  Well, a good deal less 
cargo would be transported as a result, and I surmise (but it's only surmise) 
that there'd be a lot more pressure on drivers, as a result, to produce more.  
Some of that pressure would translate to tired drivers.  And all of it would 
translate to more expensive transportation, meaning that poorer people would 
have increased difficulty affording the goods that are cheaper now.

Don't assume I'm saying that it's better as we do things now.  I'm not; I'm 
just saying that "this cause of death would be reduced" is no help unless you 
can estimate how many deaths would also increase.  And if anyone thinks there'd 
be NO deaths owing to more expensive goods, I'll just shut up.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* A good scare is worth more than good advice.  -Horace (65 BC – 8 BC) */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 18:45

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Agree completely.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 7:06 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

If the were actually pro life then they would support WIC programs. "The right 
to life ends at birth."


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 6:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 5:07 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:


> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
>  wrote:
> building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a bit of a challenge 
> compared to what they do in Europe.

Every country has different challenges of mentality. I'm guessing this refers 
to Germany where Mercedes produces big rig Trucks. This mentality spreads 
across all industries in Germany including computers. When I lived in Germany, 
I experienced many of these challenges but a better example is an English 
friend who repaired equipment made in Germany. His job was to go where Germans 
refused. For instance, he was sent to repair a 9 spindle lathe in Spain because 
the customer did not wait for the correct part. When the lathe failed, the 
customer did not have the correct bolt so they hammered a steel rod to get the 
lathe temporarily running. Germans wouldn't fix it because it's the customers 
responsibility to wait for the correct parts.


    On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
 wrote:

 I remember when Y2K was coming up - I was an employee of an American truck 
manufacturer at the time - I thought to myself that although I am a horrible 
procrastinator, the CEOs of large corporations surely are more disciplined than 
that.  THEY wouldn't put off the necessary changes until the last minute!  That 
was a bit of a shock to my opinions when I encountered reality.

Speaking of gas tanks, building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a 
bit of a challenge compared to what they do in Europe.  Perhaps it's because of 
the size of our country, or maybe it's something else.  But when they sell 
tractors in Europe, I gather the options offered are little more varied than 
the options you can buy in American-made cars.

With tractors it's very different here.  The parts book for a US tractor starts 
with a base model and then lets you swap out the base engine for any of twenty 
others; transmissions, exhaust stacks, seats, wheels, almost anything can be 
selected.  Then there are the special orders that a factory engineer has to 
price:  I remember one customer wanted the battery rack to be moved forward 8 
inches to make room for something else, I forget what, and they had to figure 
out how much extra to charge for it.  When European truck manufacturers started 
buying up American companies so as to get into the market, they had a bit of a 
shock encountering these complications.  But they couldn't simply say "no more 
of that"; American customers demand it.

And to bring it back to MVS, building the application that printed off the 
parts book for such options was perhaps the most complicated app my coworkers 
had ever encountered.  (I say "my coworkers" not because my intellect was fully 
up to the challenge but because I owned the marketing apps; I never had much to 
do with the parts book.)

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Men are not angered by mere misfortune but by misfortune conceived as 
injury.  And the sense of injury depends on the feeling that a legitimate claim 
has been denied.  The more claims on life, therefore, that your patient can be 
induced to make, the more often he will feel injured and, as a result, 
ill-tempered.  -advice to a tempter, from "The Screwtape Letters" by C S Lewis 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 15:11

Worked at Revco drug stores a few decades ago. We used to sell shave cream 
below cost in order to sell customers large margin items related to shaving.  
Blades, razors, & after shave. We had a system designed specifically for this 
purpose called market basket analysis. Revco made some bad decisions, went 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Seymour J Metz]

If the were actually pro life then they would support WIC programs. "The right 
to life ends at birth."


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 6:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 5:07 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:


> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
>  wrote:
> building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a bit of a challenge 
> compared to what they do in Europe.

Every country has different challenges of mentality. I'm guessing this refers 
to Germany where Mercedes produces big rig Trucks. This mentality spreads 
across all industries in Germany including computers. When I lived in Germany, 
I experienced many of these challenges but a better example is an English 
friend who repaired equipment made in Germany. His job was to go where Germans 
refused. For instance, he was sent to repair a 9 spindle lathe in Spain because 
the customer did not wait for the correct part. When the lathe failed, the 
customer did not have the correct bolt so they hammered a steel rod to get the 
lathe temporarily running. Germans wouldn't fix it because it's the customers 
responsibility to wait for the correct parts.


On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
 wrote:

 I remember when Y2K was coming up - I was an employee of an American truck 
manufacturer at the time - I thought to myself that although I am a horrible 
procrastinator, the CEOs of large corporations surely are more disciplined than 
that.  THEY wouldn't put off the necessary changes until the last minute!  That 
was a bit of a shock to my opinions when I encountered reality.

Speaking of gas tanks, building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a 
bit of a challenge compared to what they do in Europe.  Perhaps it's because of 
the size of our country, or maybe it's something else.  But when they sell 
tractors in Europe, I gather the options offered are little more varied than 
the options you can buy in American-made cars.

With tractors it's very different here.  The parts book for a US tractor starts 
with a base model and then lets you swap out the base engine for any of twenty 
others; transmissions, exhaust stacks, seats, wheels, almost anything can be 
selected.  Then there are the special orders that a factory engineer has to 
price:  I remember one customer wanted the battery rack to be moved forward 8 
inches to make room for something else, I forget what, and they had to figure 
out how much extra to charge for it.  When European truck manufacturers started 
buying up American companies so as to get into the market, they had a bit of a 
shock encountering these complications.  But they couldn't simply say "no more 
of that"; American customers demand it.

And to bring it back to MVS, building the application that printed off the 
parts book for such options was perhaps the most complicated app my coworkers 
had ever encountered.  (I say "my coworkers" not because my intellect was fully 
up to the challenge but because I owned the marketing apps; I never had much to 
do with the parts book.)

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Men are not angered by mere misfortune but by misfortune conceived as 
injury.  And the sense of injury depends on the feeling that a legitimate claim 
has been denied.  The more claims on life, therefore, that your patient can be 
induced to make, the more often he will feel injured and, as a result, 
ill-tempered.  -advice to a tempter, from "The Screwtape Letters" by C S Lewis 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 15:11

Worked at Revco drug stores a few decades ago. We used to sell shave cream 
below cost in order to sell customers large margin items related to shaving.  
Blades, razors, & after shave. We had a system designed specifically for this 
purpose called market basket analysis. Revco made some bad decisions, went 
bankrupt, emerged under a guy called grave dancer, (Sam Zell) who cut to the 
bone, and sold Revco to CVS. Mak

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

For Americans here who’ve never been to Europe, trucks in Europe are much 
smaller than US trucks, are required to have governors to limit their speed, 
and are restricted to the right lane. The result is far fewer traffic deaths 
involving trucks.

In addition, Europeans almost never drive pickups and their automobiles are 
much smaller.

Their rates of deaths and serious injury are far less than America.

So for you pro life people, perhaps some road restrictions would keep more 
people alive.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 5:07 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:


> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
>  wrote:
> building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a bit of a challenge 
> compared to what they do in Europe.

Every country has different challenges of mentality. I'm guessing this refers 
to Germany where Mercedes produces big rig Trucks. This mentality spreads 
across all industries in Germany including computers. When I lived in Germany, 
I experienced many of these challenges but a better example is an English 
friend who repaired equipment made in Germany. His job was to go where Germans 
refused. For instance, he was sent to repair a 9 spindle lathe in Spain because 
the customer did not wait for the correct part. When the lathe failed, the 
customer did not have the correct bolt so they hammered a steel rod to get the 
lathe temporarily running. Germans wouldn't fix it because it's the customers 
responsibility to wait for the correct parts.


    On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
 wrote:  
 
 I remember when Y2K was coming up - I was an employee of an American truck 
manufacturer at the time - I thought to myself that although I am a horrible 
procrastinator, the CEOs of large corporations surely are more disciplined than 
that.  THEY wouldn't put off the necessary changes until the last minute!  That 
was a bit of a shock to my opinions when I encountered reality.

Speaking of gas tanks, building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a 
bit of a challenge compared to what they do in Europe.  Perhaps it's because of 
the size of our country, or maybe it's something else.  But when they sell 
tractors in Europe, I gather the options offered are little more varied than 
the options you can buy in American-made cars.

With tractors it's very different here.  The parts book for a US tractor starts 
with a base model and then lets you swap out the base engine for any of twenty 
others; transmissions, exhaust stacks, seats, wheels, almost anything can be 
selected.  Then there are the special orders that a factory engineer has to 
price:  I remember one customer wanted the battery rack to be moved forward 8 
inches to make room for something else, I forget what, and they had to figure 
out how much extra to charge for it.  When European truck manufacturers started 
buying up American companies so as to get into the market, they had a bit of a 
shock encountering these complications.  But they couldn't simply say "no more 
of that"; American customers demand it.

And to bring it back to MVS, building the application that printed off the 
parts book for such options was perhaps the most complicated app my coworkers 
had ever encountered.  (I say "my coworkers" not because my intellect was fully 
up to the challenge but because I owned the marketing apps; I never had much to 
do with the parts book.)

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Men are not angered by mere misfortune but by misfortune conceived as 
injury.  And the sense of injury depends on the feeling that a legitimate claim 
has been denied.  The more claims on life, therefore, that your patient can be 
induced to make, the more often he will feel injured and, as a result, 
ill-tempered.  -advice to a tempter, from "The Screwtape Letters" by C S Lewis 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 15:11

Worked at Revco drug stores a few decades ago. We used to sell shave cream 
below cost in order to sell customers large margin items related to shaving.  
Blades, razors, & after shave. We had a system designed specifically for this 
purpose called market basket analysis. Revco made some bad decisions, went 
bankrupt, emerged under a guy called grave dancer, (Sam Zell) who cut to the 
bone, and sold Revco to CVS. Making billions.

Companies make bad decisions all the time. The key is to try and make more good 
decisions than bad. One thing I’ve found having worked at 15 different 
companies is that most managers and executives are no smarter than the low 
level employees.

I’d like more than a 12 gallon gas tank on my hybrid car to increase its 
range from 500 miles to 660 but I doubt Toyota is willing to make the Avalon 
with 2 gas tank size options.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / 

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jon Perryman]

 
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
>  wrote:
> building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a bit of a challenge 
> compared to what they do in Europe.

Every country has different challenges of mentality. I'm guessing this refers 
to Germany where Mercedes produces big rig Trucks. This mentality spreads 
across all industries in Germany including computers. When I lived in Germany, 
I experienced many of these challenges but a better example is an English 
friend who repaired equipment made in Germany. His job was to go where Germans 
refused. For instance, he was sent to repair a 9 spindle lathe in Spain because 
the customer did not wait for the correct part. When the lathe failed, the 
customer did not have the correct bolt so they hammered a steel rod to get the 
lathe temporarily running. Germans wouldn't fix it because it's the customers 
responsibility to wait for the correct parts.


On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 01:12:10 PM PDT, Bob Bridges 
 wrote:  
 
 I remember when Y2K was coming up - I was an employee of an American truck 
manufacturer at the time - I thought to myself that although I am a horrible 
procrastinator, the CEOs of large corporations surely are more disciplined than 
that.  THEY wouldn't put off the necessary changes until the last minute!  That 
was a bit of a shock to my opinions when I encountered reality.

Speaking of gas tanks, building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a 
bit of a challenge compared to what they do in Europe.  Perhaps it's because of 
the size of our country, or maybe it's something else.  But when they sell 
tractors in Europe, I gather the options offered are little more varied than 
the options you can buy in American-made cars.

With tractors it's very different here.  The parts book for a US tractor starts 
with a base model and then lets you swap out the base engine for any of twenty 
others; transmissions, exhaust stacks, seats, wheels, almost anything can be 
selected.  Then there are the special orders that a factory engineer has to 
price:  I remember one customer wanted the battery rack to be moved forward 8 
inches to make room for something else, I forget what, and they had to figure 
out how much extra to charge for it.  When European truck manufacturers started 
buying up American companies so as to get into the market, they had a bit of a 
shock encountering these complications.  But they couldn't simply say "no more 
of that"; American customers demand it.

And to bring it back to MVS, building the application that printed off the 
parts book for such options was perhaps the most complicated app my coworkers 
had ever encountered.  (I say "my coworkers" not because my intellect was fully 
up to the challenge but because I owned the marketing apps; I never had much to 
do with the parts book.)

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Men are not angered by mere misfortune but by misfortune conceived as 
injury.  And the sense of injury depends on the feeling that a legitimate claim 
has been denied.  The more claims on life, therefore, that your patient can be 
induced to make, the more often he will feel injured and, as a result, 
ill-tempered.  -advice to a tempter, from "The Screwtape Letters" by C S Lewis 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 15:11

Worked at Revco drug stores a few decades ago. We used to sell shave cream 
below cost in order to sell customers large margin items related to shaving.  
Blades, razors, & after shave. We had a system designed specifically for this 
purpose called market basket analysis. Revco made some bad decisions, went 
bankrupt, emerged under a guy called grave dancer, (Sam Zell) who cut to the 
bone, and sold Revco to CVS. Making billions.

Companies make bad decisions all the time. The key is to try and make more good 
decisions than bad. One thing I’ve found having worked at 15 different 
companies is that most managers and executives are no smarter than the low 
level employees.

I’d like more than a 12 gallon gas tank on my hybrid car to increase its 
range from 500 miles to 660 but I doubt Toyota is willing to make the Avalon 
with 2 gas tank size options.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
  

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bob Bridges]

I remember when Y2K was coming up - I was an employee of an American truck 
manufacturer at the time - I thought to myself that although I am a horrible 
procrastinator, the CEOs of large corporations surely are more disciplined than 
that.  THEY wouldn't put off the necessary changes until the last minute!  That 
was a bit of a shock to my opinions when I encountered reality.

Speaking of gas tanks, building long-haul tractors in the US is apparently a 
bit of a challenge compared to what they do in Europe.  Perhaps it's because of 
the size of our country, or maybe it's something else.  But when they sell 
tractors in Europe, I gather the options offered are little more varied than 
the options you can buy in American-made cars.

With tractors it's very different here.  The parts book for a US tractor starts 
with a base model and then lets you swap out the base engine for any of twenty 
others; transmissions, exhaust stacks, seats, wheels, almost anything can be 
selected.  Then there are the special orders that a factory engineer has to 
price:  I remember one customer wanted the battery rack to be moved forward 8 
inches to make room for something else, I forget what, and they had to figure 
out how much extra to charge for it.  When European truck manufacturers started 
buying up American companies so as to get into the market, they had a bit of a 
shock encountering these complications.  But they couldn't simply say "no more 
of that"; American customers demand it.

And to bring it back to MVS, building the application that printed off the 
parts book for such options was perhaps the most complicated app my coworkers 
had ever encountered.  (I say "my coworkers" not because my intellect was fully 
up to the challenge but because I owned the marketing apps; I never had much to 
do with the parts book.)

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Men are not angered by mere misfortune but by misfortune conceived as 
injury.  And the sense of injury depends on the feeling that a legitimate claim 
has been denied.  The more claims on life, therefore, that your patient can be 
induced to make, the more often he will feel injured and, as a result, 
ill-tempered.  -advice to a tempter, from "The Screwtape Letters" by C S Lewis 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 15:11

Worked at Revco drug stores a few decades ago. We used to sell shave cream 
below cost in order to sell customers large margin items related to shaving.  
Blades, razors, & after shave. We had a system designed specifically for this 
purpose called market basket analysis. Revco made some bad decisions, went 
bankrupt, emerged under a guy called grave dancer, (Sam Zell) who cut to the 
bone, and sold Revco to CVS. Making billions.

Companies make bad decisions all the time. The key is to try and make more good 
decisions than bad. One thing I’ve found having worked at 15 different 
companies is that most managers and executives are no smarter than the low 
level employees.

I’d like more than a 12 gallon gas tank on my hybrid car to increase its 
range from 500 miles to 660 but I doubt Toyota is willing to make the Avalon 
with 2 gas tank size options.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Jon Perryman]

 > On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 09:51:25 AM PDT, Dave Jones 
 >  wrote:

> Cloud was the go-to choice for the past five years, but we could see 
> traditional systems become more viable. Savvy architects consider all the 
> options


>From my perspective, cloud is now loosely interpreted and blurred its 
>boundaries. It's an API to access a cloud. There are various implementations 
>of cloud APIs but we all understand, use and build API's. A cloud is made of 
>traditional systems. Implement the server side of a cloud API and you have a 
>cloud. Everything that cloud does is vague to people outside the cloud, thus a 
>cloud.

Much of the components of cloud pre-existed cloud. For instance, it's rumored 
that Gene Amdahl invented clustering while working for IBM. Today it's often a 
major component of cloud.

I have no problem with people saying cloud but realize like z/OS it's mostly a 
configuration of software components to solve a problem. 

To say cloud was the go-to choice ignores that for most people, cloud is simply 
service providers (e.g. Amazon AWS or Google cloud). You leave a major portion 
of the work and trustworthiness to these service providers. Scaling lowers the 
expense of Google's cloud thru their 5,500,000 servers. The article never 
mentions many of the true costs to a company using Google cloud. Are they 
accessing your data. Owning the servers means you can see everything but using 
the cloud means you see nothing and trust it does everything you need.

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 09:51:25 AM PDT, Dave Jones 
 wrote:  
 
 hm.
Cloud was the go-to choice for the past five years, but we could see 
traditional systems become more viable. Savvy architects consider all the 
options.
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3704228/cloud-may-be-overpriced-compared-to-on-premises-systems.html
DJ

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
  

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Bill Johnson]

Worked at Revco drug stores a few decades ago. We used to sell shave cream 
below cost in order to sell customers large margin items related to shaving.  
Blades, razors, & after shave. We had a system designed specifically for this 
purpose called market basket analysis. Revco made some bad decisions, went 
bankrupt, emerged under a guy called grave dancer, (Sam Zell) who cut to the 
bone, and sold Revco to CVS. Making billions.

Companies make bad decisions all the time. The key is to try and make more good 
decisions than bad. One thing I’ve found having worked at 15 different 
companies is that most managers and executives are no smarter than the low 
level employees.

I worked at Phar Mor for 3 years during their bankruptcy and the CEO (Mickey 
Monus) went to prison for a decade for fraud. So did 2 of his executives Pat 
Finn & Jeff Walley. People called Phar Mor the next great retailer. Until the 
fraud came to light.

Most of the retailers around when I was a kid are gone. Sears, K-Mart, 
Woolworth, (later Woolco) Montgomery Ward, & others are long gone. Was it bad 
decisions or just changes to the retail industry? Perhaps a combination.

Many of the mainframe hardware providers are gone. So are most of the software 
companies. Mostly through consolidation or their inability to keep up with 
IBM’s mainframe technology.

People submit requests for changes to IBM all the time. Just because 1 or 2 
shops/people might think something is important, it undoubtedly goes through 
analysis to determine its viability and costs benefit.

I’d like more than a 12 gallon gas tank on my hybrid car to increase its range 
from 500 miles to 660 but I doubt Toyota is willing to make the Avalon with 2 
gas tank size options.
Citigroup, one of the world’s biggest banks, back in 2008, almost went belly 
up. They were bailed out basically, had to do a reverse stock split and 
survived.

Many/Most of the companies I worked for in 45 years are no longer around. Some 
from bankruptcy, some via merger/acquisition.

The fact that IBM has survived for over 100 years, speaks to their ability to 
make decisions which have kept them at the forefront of IT. Have they made bad 
decisions? Of course.

As others are pointing out in the other thread, the cloud isn’t the panacea 
many thought. Many transitioned because they were sold the “shave cream” loss 
leader and now the cloud players want to capitalize on it.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 7, 2023, 2:26 PM, Crawford Robert C (Contractor) 
<04e08f385650-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

As a witness to an outsourcing followed some years later by an insourcing, I 
can infer that cloud providers (which are essentially outsourcers) can and will 
lowball companies to get their business on the platform.  Then comes the big 
contract renewal.  A customer's bargaining position is weaker during renewal 
because of the time, risk and expense of moving to another provider or, God 
help them, bringing the process back in-house.  

Robert Crawford
Abstract Evolutions LLC
(210) 913-3822

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

It would be interesting to understand if the early adopters of cloud were the 
beneficiaries of aggressive discount pricing and now find themselves trapped on 
those platforms.  For a long time storage was “unlimited and not expensive” but 
now you’re starting to see the reality of costs factor into the cloud 
offerings.  

Agree on the religious undertones comment.  Many people wanted to be the cool 
kids and move to the cloud.  Those architects are likely long gone but the 
impact of those decisions live on.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook <https://facebook.com/matt.hogstrom>  LinkedIn 
<https://linkedin/in/mhogstrom>  Twitter <https://twitter.com/hogstrom>

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Aug 7, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Dave Jones  wrote:
> 
> Savvy architects consider all the options.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Steve Thompson]

The outsourcing/insourcing cycle of the 80's and 90's are 
happening with Cloud!?! Color me stupefied.  Cloud really does 
mean someone else's data center!! Who could of known?


Can we now start charging retailers and the like for space on our 
smart devices to run their Apps? I think we should be allowed to 
rent them space on our devices if they are going to market 
directly to us Just give that some thought.


Steve Thompson




On 8/7/2023 2:25 PM, Crawford Robert C (Contractor) wrote:

As a witness to an outsourcing followed some years later by an insourcing, I 
can infer that cloud providers (which are essentially outsourcers) can and will 
lowball companies to get their business on the platform.  Then comes the big 
contract renewal.  A customer's bargaining position is weaker during renewal 
because of the time, risk and expense of moving to another provider or, God 
help them, bringing the process back in-house.

Robert Crawford
Abstract Evolutions LLC
(210) 913-3822

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

It would be interesting to understand if the early adopters of cloud were the 
beneficiaries of aggressive discount pricing and now find themselves trapped on 
those platforms.  For a long time storage was “unlimited and not expensive” but 
now you’re starting to see the reality of costs factor into the cloud offerings.

Agree on the religious undertones comment.  Many people wanted to be the cool 
kids and move to the cloud.  Those architects are likely long gone but the 
impact of those decisions live on.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook <https://facebook.com/matt.hogstrom>  LinkedIn 
<https://linkedin/in/mhogstrom>  Twitter <https://twitter.com/hogstrom>

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom




On Aug 7, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Dave Jones  wrote:

Savvy architects consider all the options.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Crawford Robert C (Contractor)]

As a witness to an outsourcing followed some years later by an insourcing, I 
can infer that cloud providers (which are essentially outsourcers) can and will 
lowball companies to get their business on the platform.  Then comes the big 
contract renewal.  A customer's bargaining position is weaker during renewal 
because of the time, risk and expense of moving to another provider or, God 
help them, bringing the process back in-house.  

Robert Crawford
Abstract Evolutions LLC
(210) 913-3822

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

It would be interesting to understand if the early adopters of cloud were the 
beneficiaries of aggressive discount pricing and now find themselves trapped on 
those platforms.  For a long time storage was “unlimited and not expensive” but 
now you’re starting to see the reality of costs factor into the cloud 
offerings.  

Agree on the religious undertones comment.  Many people wanted to be the cool 
kids and move to the cloud.  Those architects are likely long gone but the 
impact of those decisions live on.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook <https://facebook.com/matt.hogstrom>  LinkedIn 
<https://linkedin/in/mhogstrom>  Twitter <https://twitter.com/hogstrom>

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Aug 7, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Dave Jones  wrote:
> 
> Savvy architects consider all the options.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Matt Hogstrom]

It would be interesting to understand if the early adopters of cloud were the 
beneficiaries of aggressive discount pricing and now find themselves trapped on 
those platforms.  For a long time storage was “unlimited and not expensive” but 
now you’re starting to see the reality of costs factor into the cloud 
offerings.  

Agree on the religious undertones comment.  Many people wanted to be the cool 
kids and move to the cloud.  Those architects are likely long gone but the 
impact of those decisions live on.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook   LinkedIn 
  Twitter 

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Aug 7, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Dave Jones  wrote:
> 
> Savvy architects consider all the options.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Cloud may be overpriced compared to on-premises systems

[Dave Jones]

hm.
Cloud was the go-to choice for the past five years, but we could see 
traditional systems become more viable. Savvy architects consider all the 
options.
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3704228/cloud-may-be-overpriced-compared-to-on-premises-systems.html
DJ

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN