Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-09 Thread Marcio Almada
Hi, Rowan 2015-08-03 4:31 GMT-03:00 Rowan Collins rowan.coll...@gmail.com: On 2 August 2015 23:35:38 GMT+01:00, Marcio Almada marcio.w...@gmail.com wrote: This is their email announce the end of their mailing list back in 2015

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-05 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Scott Arciszewski sc...@paragonie.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Ferenc Kovacs tyr...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen te...@terah.com.au wrote: On Tuesday, 4 August

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-05 Thread Johannes Schlüter
On Tue, 2015-08-04 at 18:36 +0200, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: personally I would prefer moving to something like google groups and doing in a way that we can preserve archives ( I have no experience with google groups in a day o day usage basis. So I can't judge what they might do better. But a fun

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Scott Arciszewski sc...@paragonie.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Ferenc Kovacs tyr...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen te...@terah.com.au wrote: On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Christoph Becker
On 04.08.2015 at 19:30, Stephen Coakley wrote: On 08/04/2015 11:36 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: maybe it just me, but it seems to me, that every time this idea is brought up, not many people from the actual participants of the list speak up, but bunch of people who never before sent a mail to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen te...@terah.com.au wrote: On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de wrote: On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 17:15 -0500, Stephen Coakley wrote: You have to admit, NNTP news is an aging technology, with fewer and fewer readers

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Stephen Coakley
On 08/04/2015 11:36 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen te...@terah.com.au wrote: On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de wrote: On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 17:15 -0500, Stephen Coakley wrote: You have to admit, NNTP news is an aging

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Terry Cullen
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de wrote: On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 17:15 -0500, Stephen Coakley wrote: You have to admit, NNTP news is an aging technology, with fewer and fewer readers available as time goes on. Nowadays (for graphical clients), there's Pan,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Scott Arciszewski
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Ferenc Kovacs tyr...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen te...@terah.com.au wrote: On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de wrote: On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 17:15 -0500, Stephen Coakley wrote: You have to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Lester Caine
On 04/08/15 17:12, Terry Cullen wrote: Redmine would be a good option. http://www.redmine.org/ The feature list has most everything covered in this thread. http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Features Feature list is nice, but is PHP really unable to provide a similar service? --

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-04 Thread Tom Samplonius
On Aug 4, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 04/08/15 17:12, Terry Cullen wrote: Redmine would be a good option. http://www.redmine.org/ The feature list has most everything covered in this thread. http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Features

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-03 Thread Rowan Collins
On 2 August 2015 23:35:38 GMT+01:00, Marcio Almada marcio.w...@gmail.com wrote: This is their email announce the end of their mailing list back in 2015 https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2015-January/011558.html Amusingly, the first reply to that is someone trying to set up an email

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-03 Thread Lester Caine
On 02/08/15 22:56, Stephen Coakley wrote: A forum would be a reasonable alternative to a mailing list, however. Yahoo groups is a forum style on-line but still retains a perfectly functional email interface. WHY does the discussion have to be 'switch to a forum' when there are perfectly good

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-03 Thread Andreas Heigl
Am 03.08.2015 um 09:31 schrieb Rowan Collins rowan.coll...@gmail.com: On 2 August 2015 23:35:38 GMT+01:00, Marcio Almada marcio.w...@gmail.com wrote: This is their email announce the end of their mailing list back in 2015

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-03 Thread Stephen Coakley
On 08/03/2015 02:31 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: On 2 August 2015 23:35:38 GMT+01:00, Marcio Almada marcio.w...@gmail.com wrote: This is their email announce the end of their mailing list back in 2015 https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2015-January/011558.html Amusingly, the first reply

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Lester Caine
On 02/08/15 13:52, Rowan Collins wrote: As a final note, while encouraging new users is definitely a good thing, any project the size of PHP will always have a core set of developers who spend a lot of time working on and discussing it. If you make those people's lives difficult, no amount

[PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Dor Tchizik
Hello internals! I wanted to propose a change to how PHP discussions are made. Currently, PHP discussions are held on the various mailing lists, managed by an old mailing list system, without any proper alternative interface to follow and respond outside of mailing. The discussion is hidden

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Andreas Heigl
Hi Dor. Am 02.08.2015 um 14:01 schrieb Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com: Hello internals! I wanted to propose a change to how PHP discussions are made. Currently, PHP discussions are held on the various mailing lists, managed by an old mailing list system, without any proper alternative

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Dor Tchizik
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:29 PM Andreas Heigl andr...@heigl.org wrote: Hi Dor. Am 02.08.2015 um 14:01 schrieb Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com: Hello internals! I wanted to propose a change to how PHP discussions are made. Currently, PHP discussions are held on the various mailing

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Marcio Almada
Hi, 2015-08-02 9:01 GMT-03:00 Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com: Hello internals! I wanted to propose a change to how PHP discussions are made. Currently, PHP discussions are held on the various mailing lists, managed by an old mailing list system, without any proper alternative interface to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Rowan Collins
On 2 August 2015 13:01:57 BST, Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com wrote: I propose that internals discussion to be moved (eventually entirely) to a different medium, where the example I have in mind is GitHub issues (but that is up for discussion). While I think a different medium could be worth

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Lester Caine
On 02/08/15 15:29, Andreas Heigl wrote: And I'm not sure Whether I want someone messing arround with the language that powers 80% of the WorldWideWeb who isn't able to get his tools set up properly. But that's just my 2 arrogant cent. Nothing arrogant about the comment ... what is more of a

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Rowan Collins
On 02/08/2015 20:00, Dor Tchizik wrote: The mailinglist might be far from perfect (which some people also say about PHP so there's a good match) but it is a well established way of communication in the PHP-community. I strongly believe that it would be counterproductive to change the way of

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Leszek Krupiński
On 02 Aug 2015, at 22:03, Niklas Keller m...@kelunik.com wrote: I remember it being pretty trivial - enter my e-mail address, verify my e-mail address, skim-read the etiquette doc, start discussing. I agree with that. Getting RFC karma isn't that hard, at least not if your mail

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Dor Tchizik
This is what I think. The best way to deter the community from making contributions is to make it hard to contribute. My C/C++ savvy buddy told me about an awesome feature he wants to see in iojs, I can tell him to go on GitHub and raise the issue, discussion took place, and he'd submitted a pull

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Stig Bakken
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 10:05 PM Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com wrote: I already have. iojs (and soon, nodejs), as well as Rust which was mentioned by someone else. On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:04 PM Stig Bakken s...@stigbakken.com wrote: Are you being serious? Can you provide examples of

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Rowan Collins
On 02/08/2015 21:19, Marcio Almada wrote: Hi 2015-08-02 16:52 GMT-03:00 Rowan Collins rowan.coll...@gmail.com: On 02/08/2015 20:10, Marcio Almada wrote: As you pointed github issues, it's worth noting that Rust internals already use github to manage RFCs:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Stephen Coakley
On 08/02/2015 07:52 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: On 2 August 2015 13:01:57 BST, Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com wrote: I propose that internals discussion to be moved (eventually entirely) to a different medium, where the example I have in mind is GitHub issues (but that is up for discussion). While

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Stephen Coakley
On 08/02/2015 05:35 PM, Marcio Almada wrote: I'm not saying that we should do exactly the same thing. PHP is not Rust. Rust is not PHP. But at least we could stop pretending our process shouldn't be improved because the walls it offers supposedly act as a filter for the one who isn't able to get

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Rowan Collins
On 02/08/2015 20:10, Marcio Almada wrote: As you pointed github issues, it's worth noting that Rust internals already use github to manage RFCs: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+label%3AT-lang That's interesting. Do you have a link to any documentation on the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Rowan Collins
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:04 PM Stig Bakken s...@stigbakken.com wrote: Are you being serious? Can you provide examples of projects that have successfully replaced their developer mailing lists with GitHub issues? On 02/08/2015 21:05, Dor Tchizik wrote: I already have. iojs (and soon,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Stephen Coakley
On 08/02/2015 03:34 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:04 PM Stig Bakken s...@stigbakken.com wrote: Are you being serious? Can you provide examples of projects that have successfully replaced their developer mailing lists with GitHub issues? On 02/08/2015 21:05, Dor Tchizik

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Johannes Schlüter
On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 19:17 +, Dor Tchizik wrote: Now, I get that the RFC process in PHP is different, but why is it that to even GET on the mailing list one needs to go through seven hells, only to be in the discussion (often completely irrelevant to what he's trying to do) for several

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Stig Bakken
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:02 PM Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com wrote: Hello internals! I wanted to propose a change to how PHP discussions are made. Currently, PHP discussions are held on the various mailing lists, managed by an old mailing list system, without any proper alternative interface

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Niklas Keller
I remember it being pretty trivial - enter my e-mail address, verify my e-mail address, skim-read the etiquette doc, start discussing. I agree with that. Getting RFC karma isn't that hard, at least not if your mail doesn't get lost during hot discussions. If you're not interested in a

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Dor Tchizik
I already have. iojs (and soon, nodejs), as well as Rust which was mentioned by someone else. On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:04 PM Stig Bakken s...@stigbakken.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:02 PM Dor Tchizik d...@tchizik.com wrote: Hello internals! I wanted to propose a change to how PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Marcio Almada
Hi 2015-08-02 16:52 GMT-03:00 Rowan Collins rowan.coll...@gmail.com: On 02/08/2015 20:10, Marcio Almada wrote: As you pointed github issues, it's worth noting that Rust internals already use github to manage RFCs: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+label%3AT-lang

Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium

2015-08-02 Thread Marcio Almada
Hi, 2015-08-02 17:46 GMT-03:00 Rowan Collins rowan.coll...@gmail.com: On 02/08/2015 21:19, Marcio Almada wrote: Hi 2015-08-02 16:52 GMT-03:00 Rowan Collins rowan.coll...@gmail.com: On 02/08/2015 20:10, Marcio Almada wrote: As you pointed github issues, it's worth noting that Rust