Dear Ya'll,?How do I get more rudder travel?The plans say that I should be
getting 30 degrees of travel on the rudder in both directions, I am getting 15
degrees left and 15 degrees to the right.
I have floor mounted rudder pedals built to plans with nylon blocks.
?Turnbuckles are located in
, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Original message From: bjoenunley via KRnet Date: 11/17/16 4:55 PM (GMT-07:00) To: KRnet Cc: bjoenunley Subject: KR> Rudder
???
Dear Ya'll,?How do I get more rudder travel?The plans say that I should be
getting 30 degrees of travel on the rudder in b
Just to say thanks for responses re rudder size. Would seen plan size to 10
percent larger seems to be consensus.
Bill Weir
-Original Message-
From: Mark Langford via KRnet
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2016 7:22 AM
To: KRnet
Cc: Mark Langford
Subject: Re: KR> RUDDER SIZE
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
Mark wrote:
The plane slips at a crazy sharp angle and drops like an elevator while
doing it, so I like my tal
via KRnet
Sent: July 8, 2016 10:23 AM
To: KRnet
Cc: Mark Langford
Subject: Re: KR> RUDDER SIZE
N56ML's rudder is 3.5" taller than the KR2S plans call for, and has an
aerodynamic balance to lighten the load on it. I say that, but the plans
don't actually have a dimension on that,
N56ML's rudder is 3.5" taller than the KR2S plans call for, and has an
aerodynamic balance to lighten the load on it. I say that, but the plans
don't actually have a dimension on that, you have to scale it (1/4) to
get 40.5" tall at the trailing edge. My rudder is a total of 44" tall at
the
al message
?
Subject: Re: KR> RUDDER SIZE
28mph crosswind? Joe, I've flown jets that couldn't handle that!
Kolbjern Seth
?
___
Sounds like I need to get to know Joe. ?I plan to enlarge my rudder with carbon
fiber but have not done so yet, more because I would need to order more foam to
be able to do it than anything else. ?We have a pretty constant cross wind at
my house and I don't want to have any reason not to
Bill Weir said,
"Would appreciate any comments any of you would have concerning the size
of
the KR2 rudder. Is it too small, is it larger than required, or is it
just
right?"
Mine is a KR-1? and the KR-2 I owned was so long ago I wouldn't want to
give a rudder evaluation at this late date. In
Bill,
I had made a couple posts on this subject in the past year. I am currently
building my second 2s and it does need more rudder. As someone already
mentioned it could use it for slips as well as ground handling. But the
defining moment for me was landing and taking off in pre-hurrican winds
Seth
Subject: Re: KR> RUDDER SIZE
28mph crosswind? Joe, I've flown jets that couldn't handle that!
Kolbjern Seth
?
Would appreciate any comments any of you would have concerning the size of
the KR2 rudder. Is it too small, is it larger than required, or is it just
right?
Thanks,
Bill Weir
: KR> RUDDER SIZE
Would appreciate any comments any of you would have concerning the size of
the KR2 rudder. Is it too small, is it larger than required, or is it just
right?
Thanks,
Bill Weir
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.
At 02:39 AM 6/4/2016, you wrote:
>whats the issue with stock kr tubular rudder pedals?
The right pedal is torqued across it's entire length when the pilot
uses right rudder, highest loads with a tail wheel on the ground. My
right pedal broke at the 90
The plans have always called for only two rudder hinges, one is also the
lower bellcrank, and the other is just a hinge. The three hinge thing
came from Australia's aviation authorities, if I remember correctly, or
at least the elevators gained a hinge per side from them. I'm not sure
about
Chris Pryce said,
> "After my visit I looked up the KR-1 info and the plans show only two
rudder
hinges. I'm guessing that's the reason for your plane only having two."
Hi Chris. I was checking Sparky's rudder play and it has a little bit -
less than mine. Sparky re-built Bob Passmore's
>
>Does anybody worry about a little looseness in a rudder hinge?
>Mike
+++
Without looking at the plans I don't recall if it requires 2 or 3
hinges or if that advise was in a newsletter but three is better. As
for the "slop" , I've seen some
Best to follow Chris Kinnaman's advice.
Lets us not forget that 'any' amount of 'play' or 'slop' takes a toll on
contacted parts over time through the effects of high impact stress and
friction; no matter how small. This can lead to damaged and/or failing
parts that seem to happen out of
Play in a control surface hinge is flutter waiting to happen. I would
try to take care of it ASAP. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't
mean it won't. Just the wrong amount of "excitation" could get it
started. I've had good results with dry lubes containing teflon (PTFE)
or motorcycle
?clickkey=22817
Joe Cruz
cruzj12 at frontiernet.net
KR1.5 N3151K.sanding for final paint
KR2S builderrebuilding wing fuel tanks
On Fri, 8/28/15, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote:
Subject: KR> Rudder hinge play
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
I was told recently the plans call for three rudder hinges. I've only
got two. Of those two, the one at the top had some forward/rear play. I
can "jiggle" it front to back. I can clearly see the bolt, castlenut &
cotter pin and have access to pull the bolt and put another one in if
necessary.
At 09:43 AM 7/1/2015, you wrote:
>Hi netters,
>I am at the way to install the rudder cables
>What is your ideas?
++
In the
photo https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8717.JPG
you can see the forward half of the cables as they pass through the
The 150/152 rudder stops on the rudder horn was in response to loss of control
issues during training specifically spin training
The original stops were much smaller and could jump over the adjustment stop
resulting in jammed rudder and several deaths
Regarding stress on cables as a former 152
At 09:35 AM 6/9/2015, you wrote:
>I've had wire cables fail two ways for me. One way, is where the
>crimp/soldered end/etc tears off the end of the cable. I think I've had
>that happen three or four times over my lifetime. The other failure I've
>had is midpoint wire breakages.
I'm about to make an argument for stops at the surface only. I think I've
got a good argument here.
I've had wire cables fail two ways for me. One way, is where the
crimp/soldered end/etc tears off the end of the cable. I think I've had
that happen three or four times over my lifetime. The
>
>"Hey Guys, Looks like I'll be doing Rudder stops as an afterthought.
>What's the best place and method for this ?"
+
When it comes to stress loads on the control systems in my KR, I'm
convinced the greatest
"Hey Guys, Looks like I'll be doing Rudder stops as an afterthought. What's the
best place and method for this ?"
I don't often contribute but I think this time it is important. My take on
this is;
I am installing stops at both ends. The reason: I hear it is accepted good
practice to
The highest loads you'll ever put on your rudder cables and rudder horn are
when you are braking if you have toe brakes. The Tony Bingelis books advise
using stops at the control surfaces to prevent overload and damage at the
control surface hinges when parked with a tailwind, should you
too hard. So
it looks like we have a reason for something to protect the flight surface from
banging over too far, and also the control cable and related from being
stressed. Why not both?
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 13:02:04 -0400
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Subject: Re: KR>
Ever look at a Cessna?
The control stops are at the control surfaces to prevent over stressing the
surface due to flight loads, not pilot input.
Just sayin'
Chris G.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 7, 2015, at 10:00 PM, Flesner via KRnet
> wrote:
>
> At 08:52 PM 6/7/2015, you wrote:
>
>> I would
At the rudder pedals, Virg
On 6/7/2015 7:01 PM, Mike Sylvester via KRnet wrote:
> Hey Guys, Looks like I'll be doing Rudder stops as an afterthought. What's
> the best place and method for this ?
>
> Mike Sylvester
> kr2s builder
> Birmingham,AL.
>
> Cell no.205-966-3854
I would disagree with Larry on that one.
The control surface stops should be as close to the control surface as possible.
It is a Canadian requirement to have control stops on all control surfaces.
My rudder stops are where the control horn meets the fuselage. A simple bracket
was added with
At 08:52 PM 6/7/2015, you wrote:
>I would disagree with Larry on that one.
>The control surface stops should be as close to the control surface
>as possible.
++
Why do I want to stress the entire system, cable, fare leads,
pulleys,
>, Looks like I'll be doing Rudder stops as an afterthought. What's
>the best place and method for this ?
>Mike Sylvester
++
Method will depend on your setup but put them at the rudder bar and
not on the tail. You don't
Hey Guys, Looks like I'll be doing Rudder stops as an afterthought. What's the
best place and method for this ?
Mike Sylvester
kr2s builder
Birmingham,AL.
Cell no.205-966-3854
>
>
>I'm looking for a set of rudder pedals with toe brake fittings or
>maybe a set of experienced plans for the Hegar hydraulic cylinders to
>replace the original brake-less rudder pedals.
+++
For top mounted rudder pedals you might try
The highest load on your rudder pedals will happen under hard braking if you
have hydraulic toe brakes. At that point, your pedals aren't going to be
anywhere near the stops. The left pedal isn't a problem so much as the right
pedal because your feet are on the left side, but the right pedal
Jeff Scott wrote:
> The highest load on your rudder pedals will happen under hard braking if you
> have hydraulic toe brakes.
And it goes without saying that if you stand on the brakes while landing,
you're probably going to have to buy another prop and crank if you have a
taildragger!
You are right on Jeff, it was my rt. petal that bent.Sparky
This may effect Tail dragger more then nose wheel, but we must check the
pedals regularly .
No probs yet at 540 hours (nose wheel)
I check my pedals at all annuals, I have made my next ones stronger as it
will be a T/ Wheel, for more fun.
Phil Matheson
lle Il
618 406 4705
Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.
Original message From: Jeff Scott via KRnet
Date:09/11/2014 10:48 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: 'KRnet' Subject: Re: KR>
rudder pedals
The highest load on your rudder pedals will happen under hard br
My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
Has anyone built them this way? What are the pros and cons?
TK
Just as a side note on bending. In our manufacturing business we've made
hundreds of thousands of bends on tubing. We've owned and used Swiss made
mandrel benders and regular hydraulic benders. The mandrel benders if adjusted
properly maintain the roundness of the tubing as it's being bent.
At 09:38 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>Take it to someone who builds custom headers and has a 'mandrel' bending
>machine.
+
I just can't imagine a setup
( http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/00012802.jpg ) or (
because
of the smaller overall diameter tube, but it should be doable.
JMHO
Mark W.
N952MW (res)
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford
via KRnet
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:21 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> rudder ped
Tony King wrote:
> My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
> Has anyone built them this way? What are the pros and cons?
Bent would be stronger than welded, as there would be "no heat affected
zone" to weaken the parent material, as you get from welding. A
Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.
Original message From: Flesner via KRnet
Date:09/10/2014 6:01 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: KRnet Subject: KR> rudder
pedals
At 02:25 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>What Sparky doesn't mention is that in trying to "ke
At 05:52 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
> Has anyone built them this way? What are the pros and cons?
>TK
Just my opinion but the welded (reinforced 90 degree
Yes
, that is good Steve. Mine were .035.
The plans rudder pedals were .035. They were upgraded to .049 with hydraulic
brakes but was still problematic. We make all of ours from . 058. Not much
weight gain but much safer/ stronger.
Steve Glover
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 10, 2014, at 15:01, Flesner via KRnet wrote:
>
> At 02:25
At 02:25 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>What Sparky doesn't mention is that in trying to "keep it light," he lost
>his rudder because the tubing he and Murray used to fabricate the rudder
>pedals broke at a critical moment when he was caught by a gust on
>landing.
Dene Collett wrote:
> Can somebody who has their plans handy please give me the measurement of
> the
> rudder pedals from the hinge point centre to the cable attach.
4", assuming you mean using hinges attached to the bottoms of the rudder
bars.
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at
Can somebody who has their plans handy please give me the measurement of the
rudder padals from the hinge poing centre to the cable attach. My plans are
not available right now so can't check myself.
Thanks
Dene
Regards
Dene Collett
www.denecollett.com
-Original Message-
From: KRnet
>
>My KR rudder pedals have no tubing, just cables running directly back to
>the rudder
>Mike Stirewalt
+++
What are the cables attached to and what transfers the movement of
your feet to the cables?
L
>
>My KR rudder pedals have no tubing, just cables running directly back to
>the rudder
>Mike Stirewalt
+++
What are the cables attached to and what transfers the movement of
your feet to the cables?
Larry Flesner
. A
gust caught him when flaring here at KSEE and in recovering broke the
rudder tubing which left him without rudder. He ended up clipping
something stationary and breaking his left wing and pretty much messing
the plane up beyond repair. So . . . don't skimp on the rudder tubing is
the les
Mine broke also. My KR had at least 100 hours on it with the old
mechanical brakes and a pull cable. I added hydraulic brakes on the
rudder pedals and I snapped a joint like Larry during my initial taxii
testing and almost took out some lights at the end of the runway.
What I did was to get
pare the two thicknesses. Give me a call .
>
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705
>
> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Phillip Hill via KRnet"
> Date: Mon, May 12, 2014 5:08 pm
> Subject: KR> Rudder p
>. The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems a
>bit "springy" to me. Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
>pedals or did you go up to .049"?
+++
The .035 tubing is o.k. but REINFORCE THE 90 DEGREE CORNERS on the
side to side runs. The
!
- Reply message -
From: "Phillip Hill via KRnet"
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, May 12, 2014 5:08 pm
Subject: KR> Rudder pedals
To: "KRnet"
Hi guys, I'm working on my rudder pedals. The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems a
bit "springy" to
I appreciate the responses...here is a picture of what I have come up with
so far. I flipped over the pedals on the assembly I had and added an
extension to the pedals to attach the cylinders to the pedal side. I
spread the pedals apart wide enough to clear the cylinders ok. I like the
idea of
I was working on rudder pedals and have come across a couple of things.
The first is that I wanted to hang the pedals because the floor of the
fuselage is uneven. Has anyone hung pedals that have brake cylinders
attached? I think I have come up with a way that will work well and will
send
At 11:31 PM 11/11/2010, you wrote:
>Sparky
>thought they had used extra-thin aluminum but from what I'm learning with
>this incident of Larry's it appears that's what was in the plans.
>
>Mike
+
The peddles are made of steel,
> When I pressed the right brake peddle to stop the turn the entire
peddle, along with the
master cylinder fell off on the floor.
This is how Sparky lost his original KR. He was flaring here at SEE, got
caught with a gust/whirlwind and when he stomped on the rudder while
recovering it broke
The original Rand pedals were made from .049 wall 4130. We make ours from .058
as this was a common problem once the use of hydraulic brakes became more
prevalent.
Steve Glover
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
im running with the AS5046-75 airfoil on my tail section. Ive changed my HS
to 96" .. How high from the HS should I make my rudder to be stable?
David Swanson
I disagree on the springs. I have tried them both, and the closed system
works much better. However, your results do vary.
See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics
See you at the 2009 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Ill
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the
At 05:05 PM 8/5/2009, you wrote:
>So, what you must be sure to do then, it to always keep your feet on the
>pedals with some pressure. I suggest adding turnbuckles in a closed system.
>You can fly this plane with no feet except for take off and landing.
>Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
Uh - have to disagree - the springs, or a balance cable, will hold adequate
tension on the pedals to allow you to take your feet off the pedals in
flight. In calm air mine flies quite well hands and feet off.
Rick Human
N202RH
Houston, Tx
Daniel R. Heath wrote:
So, what you must be sure to do
So, what you must be sure to do then, it to always keep your feet on the
pedals with some pressure. I suggest adding turnbuckles in a closed system.
You can fly this plane with no feet except for take off and landing.
See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics
See you at the
There was a post recently about were to mount turnbuckles for the rudder
cables. I dont use turnbuckles on the rudder cables , I dont see the need
as you actually tension the cables with your legs. What I have done is make
a strap of 4130 @ 3 to 4 inches long and ¾ wide (obviously sizing can be
and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
-Original Message-
Subject: KR> Rudder turnbuckles locations
What is the general consensus on the location of the turnbuckles for the
rudder?
Hey builders.
What is the general consensus on the location of the turnbuckles for the rudder?
Putting them at the pedals could be hard to get to but would clean up the
outside. I have a removable forward deck and header tank.
Putting them at the rudder horn makes them accessible.? Although the
On Behalf
Of Dan Heath
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:11 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Rudder Trim
I am thinking about adding a rudder trim and want it to be electric. What I
want is one that is totally internal to the rudder, not like the elevator
trim that has the push rod sticking o
I am thinking about adding a rudder trim and want it to be electric. What I
want is one that is totally internal to the rudder, not like the elevator
trim that has the push rod sticking out the bottom.
Any ideas where I can find something like that?
See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then
>Del Magsam wrote:
>I see.I have the movable tab on the elevator which works well. I
would like to do that tension knob system for my rudder >though, as I
always need left rudder in varying amounts depending on power setting
etc. It would be nice to be able to trim >that out. I do have a fixed
Can anyone tell me if they feel the rudder size is adequate on the KR,
especially in a heavy crosswind?
I can tell you from actually flying my KR2, stock plans built, that the one
thing you don't need more of is rudder. It has plenty of authority without
being overly sensitive, or in effective at
Parley
Great idea.
But being from another country, Australia, we often use different names for
the same things.
SO, would you happen to have a photo of the window crank to save confusion.
Phil Matheson
VH-PKR
Australia
KR Web Page
www.philskr2.50megs.com
http://www.vw-engines.com/
Having them hanging from behind the fuel tank I can tell you that I would have
them mounted to the floor if it were me, just for easier maintenance. Their
support was all in the way of the motor mounts. Even if I were not changing the
engine, but just removing the motor mount due to breakage,
Last night I removed my rudder from my KR. There are two reasons I did this. I
am in the process of getting ready for paint plus one of the wires which goes
through the vertical stabilizer and into the rudder broke where the wire enters
the rudder. This was caused by the continuous flexing of
Mark Jones wrote:
>How did you guys route your wiring into the rudder and what type of wire
>did you use?
I just used the regular MS22759 white stuff, and I offset the hole in the
rudder from the hole in the vertical stab spar by about 4". This makes the
wire twist more than bending and
Message-
From: krnet-bounces+mjones=muellersales@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+mjones=muellersales@mylist.net]On Behalf Of
Mark Langford
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:50 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Rudder Light Wiring
Mark Jones wrote:
>How did you guys route your
Mark Jones wrote:
> Are we talking the same thing here? Don't you have a huge trim tab
> permanently set on your rudder which will correct center your ball in
> flight?
Oh, yeathere's always that, and it works so well I completely forgot
about it!
Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S
At 09:24 AM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
>Mark Jones wrote:
>
> > Are we talking the same thing here? Don't you have a huge trim tab
> > permanently set on your rudder which will correct center your ball in
> > flight?
>
>Oh, yeathere's always that, and it works so well I completely forgot
>about it!
KR heads
Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead of
mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the floor
that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)? I have a set of
pedals made to plans and have decided to hang them from the
At 03:12 AM 11/5/2005, you wrote:
>KR heads
>Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead of
>mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the floor
>that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)?
>Dene Collett
>
> >Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead of
> >mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the floor
> >that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)?
> >Dene Collett
..net
Did my post to the net make the trip last nite.. It was comments on
our mag timing efforts Maybe I have a bad net
connection..
Someone please respond if they receive this.
On 11/5/05, Larry Flesner
w.higdon9...@comcast.net wrote:
> Mark,
> If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that
> one hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel
> brakes. Bill Higdon
But what about the rudder trying to center itself? With a broken cable I
could see it deflecting a
Steve,
If you've ever flown a Luscombe you'd know the answer. They have a very light
rudder.
Bill
> w.higdon9...@comcast.net wrote:
> > Mark,
> > If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that
> > one hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel
> > brakes.
Ok I can see that some of you spend too much time on your computer and not
enough time building. First of all with me in my KR, if I had no springs,
no cables, and no brakes attached to my rudder peddles, they still would
have no place to fall except on my feet or shin bones. Get back to the
>
> And the reason is shown by a friends accident back in the mid 60's he was
flying along in his Luscombe 8E when one of the rudder springs broke. The
other peddle went to the firewall with no way in flight to get it back to
neutral.
>Bill Higdon
arrived home! Two new springs and I was back in business.
Kevin.
-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of harold woods
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:22 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> rudder return springs.
Hi Netters
Re rud
>I was flying my Tr2 (Grumman) that has springs and one broke just as the
>plane lifted from the ground. A HUGE bang was heard and a hard pull on
>the other pedal. After figuring out what had happened, I flew it on to
>my destination that was 80 miles away. My leg sure was tired by the
>time I
w.higdon9...@comcast.net wrote:
> Steve,
> If you've ever flown a Luscombe you'd know the answer. They have a
> very light rudder. Bill
I have, but probably not what you're talking about. The one I got to fly had
the rudder system closed through the nose gear, I believe.
--
Steve
A Luscombe with a Nose gear?
> w.higdon9...@comcast.net wrote:
> > Steve,
> > If you've ever flown a Luscombe you'd know the answer. They have a
> > very light rudder. Bill
>
> I have, but probably not what you're talking about. The one I got to fly had
> the rudder system closed through the
w.higdon9...@comcast.net wrote:
> A Luscombe with a Nose gear?
Yup, 2005 11E. I was waiting for someone to catch that ;)
http://www.luscombeaircraft.com/
I think the one on the first page is the one I flew.
--
Steve
33...@swbell.net
N3343V- '75 C150M
N205FT- KR1 #6170
He who seeks will find,
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