RE: Encountered issue on Apache Translate Pootle Service website

[Ahmad Alawsie]

Andrea I have an update, turns out the latest version of Pootle has it fixed 
according to the repository owner of Pootle on GitHub. Also, I have requested 
for help for an upgrade to the server for https://translate.apache.org/ via 
https://gitter.im/translate/pootle and you can follow this issue that has been 
closed but is still being reviewed... at: 
https://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/6801. Please get back when you can, 
because I think if the standard Pootle installation is the case, then it seems 
reasonable to upgrade the server, with the assistance of the individuals 
belonging to the Pootle repository.

Regards
Ahmad A

From: Andrea Pescetti
Sent: 07 February 2018 17:24
To: l10n@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Encountered issue on Apache Translate Pootle Service website

Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
> number of submissions not functioning, that has been normal ...
> However, I am 500% sure that the “Reviews” count is buggy

In this respect I can only say that we have a very standard Pootle
installation: we do not have special Pootle expertise, we just use it as
a tool.

You did the right thing by posting it to
https://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/6801

I'll follow that issue and let's see if we get explanations, i.e.,
whether it depends on Pootle in general or on our specific installation
(but our installation really has nothing special).

Regards,
   Andrea.

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Re: Ping Andrea Another problem with https://translate.apache.org/accounts/password/reset

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 09.02.2018 um 14:51 schrieb Keith N. McKenna:
> On 2/9/2018 4:43 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> On 08/02/2018 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> After today's tests it seems clear that the odd case was when I did
>>> receive the mail. In all other cases it failed. I've opened
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16004 for Infra to take a
>>> look.
>> Now fixed by Infra. I tried a password reset with my test (non-Apache)
>> account at https://translate.apache.org/accounts/password/reset/ and I
>> did receive the mail a few minutes later. You can retry too, but I
>> think the issue can be closed (the server needed whitelisting as a
>> server allowed to send e-mail).
>>
>> Regards,
>>   Andrea
>>
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>>
> I tested with my non-apache.org test account and also received the reset
> mail. I concur it can be closed.

Confirmed!

Regards, Matthias

>
> Regards
> Keith
>




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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Kádár Csaba - YoheY [OpenOffice]]

Hi Andrea and Ahmad,

I guess both points are reasonable while are on the opposite site.

Teamwork should be done as Andrea wrote. But in the special case if one 
user should be allowed to accept their (his/her) own suggestions, a 
'collective acception from the others' shoould make this option 
available. /Not aiming any infrastructure change, it just seemss logical 
for me./


On the other hand in case of there is only one translator, this option 
is necessary by default, since who else should accept their (his/her) 
suggestions (if no one else speaks the given language at that time)?


Regards,

csaba


On 2018-02-09 12:55, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it 
will submit the translation and other users will not be able to see 
that suggestion as that string becomes officially translated unless 
someone decides to change it.


Yes, and this is exactly my example. Imagine you have two translators 
into Arabic, skyray1 and xyz.


1. User skyray1 enters suggestions, deliberately keeping them as 
suggestions (for the reason above).


2. User xyz reviews them and tells (by e-mail) skyray1 to go ahead 
(and let's say he leaves the final acceptance to skyray1, as skyray1 
has best knowledge of that set of strings).


3. At this point, skyray1 goes back to his own suggestions and accepts 
them.


This is a reasonable workflow used by Pootle teams, and step 3 
explains why it is useful to have this. It if still doesn't make sense 
to you, this is still the way other teams work, so there is no reason 
to break it.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Ping Andrea Another problem with https://translate.apache.org/accounts/password/reset

[Keith N. McKenna]

On 2/9/2018 4:43 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 08/02/2018 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> After today's tests it seems clear that the odd case was when I did
>> receive the mail. In all other cases it failed. I've opened
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16004 for Infra to take a
>> look.
>
> Now fixed by Infra. I tried a password reset with my test (non-Apache)
> account at https://translate.apache.org/accounts/password/reset/ and I
> did receive the mail a few minutes later. You can retry too, but I
> think the issue can be closed (the server needed whitelisting as a
> server allowed to send e-mail).
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
I tested with my non-apache.org test account and also received the reset
mail. I concur it can be closed.

Regards
Keith



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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Ahmad Alawsie]

No worries, if you say so, i tried to explain my thought process, but the 
decision is yours. I respect it. Thanks for your cooperation.

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 11:55, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it will 
>> submit the translation and other users will not be able to see that 
>> suggestion as that string becomes officially translated unless someone 
>> decides to change it.
> 
> Yes, and this is exactly my example. Imagine you have two translators into 
> Arabic, skyray1 and xyz.
> 
> 1. User skyray1 enters suggestions, deliberately keeping them as suggestions 
> (for the reason above).
> 
> 2. User xyz reviews them and tells (by e-mail) skyray1 to go ahead (and let's 
> say he leaves the final acceptance to skyray1, as skyray1 has best knowledge 
> of that set of strings).
> 
> 3. At this point, skyray1 goes back to his own suggestions and accepts them.
> 
> This is a reasonable workflow used by Pootle teams, and step 3 explains why 
> it is useful to have this. It if still doesn't make sense to you, this is 
> still the way other teams work, so there is no reason to break it.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Andrea Pescetti]

Ahmad Alawsie wrote:

The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it will submit 
the translation and other users will not be able to see that suggestion as that 
string becomes officially translated unless someone decides to change it.


Yes, and this is exactly my example. Imagine you have two translators 
into Arabic, skyray1 and xyz.


1. User skyray1 enters suggestions, deliberately keeping them as 
suggestions (for the reason above).


2. User xyz reviews them and tells (by e-mail) skyray1 to go ahead (and 
let's say he leaves the final acceptance to skyray1, as skyray1 has best 
knowledge of that set of strings).


3. At this point, skyray1 goes back to his own suggestions and accepts them.

This is a reasonable workflow used by Pootle teams, and step 3 explains 
why it is useful to have this. It if still doesn't make sense to you, 
this is still the way other teams work, so there is no reason to break it.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Ahmad Alawsie]

I have considered the fact that teams work togrther in Pootle, so then what is 
the point of the user “skyray1” having the ability to accept or reject the 
suggestion submitted by “skyray1” himself. It contradicts the idea of teamword 
as i can submit 100 suggestions for 100 different words and accept them all and 
that doesn’t underline teamwork? However if i was only given the ability to 
submit a suggestion and only delete it, rather than accepting or reject it, 
then that allows for the possibility of other translators to accept MY 
suggestion. 

The whole point of MY OWN suggestion is for OTHERS to accept or reject it, i do 
not wanna be able to do that for my own suggestions. This does not make sense 
especially considering the ideology that Pootle is built team work based. 

However, of course if i “skyray1” submit a suggestion and then log off my 
account and view that suggestion as a guest, then the accept or reject should 
be visible im that case as the system will not be able to see if the guest is 
“skyray1” and of course this could be anyone contributing.

I hope you understood my thought process around this and can consider this... 

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 10:37, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay 
>> suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?
> 
> Pootle is designed for teams working together. Things that do not make a lot 
> of sense when you are the only translator will make sense if you think about 
> how a team should work.
> 
> For example, if I want to do some translation fixes I will mark them as 
> suggestions to give another team member the possibility to review and approve 
> them (even if I could approve them myself). When we both agree the 
> suggestions are good, then one of the two (he or me) accepts the suggestions. 
> So the interface is just right in this context.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Ahmad Alawsie]

The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it will submit 
the translation and other users will not be able to see that suggestion as that 
string becomes officially translated unless someone decides to change it. I 
hope i am not being confusing here but i am seeing ome side to this that 
perhaps you guys do not see.

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 10:37, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay 
>> suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?
> 
> Pootle is designed for teams working together. Things that do not make a lot 
> of sense when you are the only translator will make sense if you think about 
> how a team should work.
> 
> For example, if I want to do some translation fixes I will mark them as 
> suggestions to give another team member the possibility to review and approve 
> them (even if I could approve them myself). When we both agree the 
> suggestions are good, then one of the two (he or me) accepts the suggestions. 
> So the interface is just right in this context.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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> 

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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Andrea Pescetti]

Ahmad Alawsie wrote:

i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay 
suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?


Pootle is designed for teams working together. Things that do not make a 
lot of sense when you are the only translator will make sense if you 
think about how a team should work.


For example, if I want to do some translation fixes I will mark them as 
suggestions to give another team member the possibility to review and 
approve them (even if I could approve them myself). When we both agree 
the suggestions are good, then one of the two (he or me) accepts the 
suggestions. So the interface is just right in this context.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

[Ahmad Alawsie]

You misunderstood my case. If i am user “skyray1”, and i make a suggestion, why 
should the system allow me to accept or reject thay suggesting if i am logged 
in as user skyray1...?

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 04:51, Keith N. McKenna  wrote:
> 
>> On 2/8/2018 8:48 PM, Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So while I’m translating, I thought to myself that I can try and test
>> the suggestion mode to see how it works and what can be improved...
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So in this instance where I suggest a word/phrase, the suggestion goes
>> through and will appear as normal under the text field. However, it
>> appears with an ‘x’ or tick, which seems to break logic. It just does
>> not make sense for a user to suggest a word, and then have the ability
>> to accept/reject the suggestion.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> As a translator, what I expected for the suggestion mode is that, if a
>> user suggests a translated word/phrase, then it is only logical that
>> the user cannot accept or reject their own suggestion. It would make
>> sense, though, that they have the ability to edit their submitted
>> suggestion/s, or delete it completely. I decided to test this
>> ‘illogical’ function out and this is what it looks like:
>> 
> Actually it is not illogical at all. My understanding is that that
> anyone can make suggestions as a guest but all suggestions need to be
> accepted or rejected by a registered translator. One of the permissions
> that are granted to translators when they request a pootle account is to
> be able to accept suggestions. That is why you were able to accept your
> own suggestions.
> 
> Regards
> Keith
> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I submitted the suggestion (at the bottom of the screenshot), and as
>> you can see, I am given the options to accept or reject the
>> suggestion... yet it is my own suggestion. I accepted the suggestion
>> and it now marks as 1 “accepted” on my profile (my username is
>> skyray1). My profile can be seen in the screenshot below, with the
>> accepted column marking 1 on the ‘Apache OpenOffice 4.x Help
>> ’ row.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The screenshot above now shows the number “1” after I had accepted my
>> OWN suggestion. In my opinion, this needs to change, as for logic’s
>> sake, users should submit suggestions for OTHERS to review, and not
>> themselves.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ahmad A
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
> 
> 

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Re: Ping Andrea Another problem with https://translate.apache.org/accounts/password/reset

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 08/02/2018 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
After today's tests it seems clear that the odd case was when I did 
receive the mail. In all other cases it failed. I've opened 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16004 for Infra to take a look.


Now fixed by Infra. I tried a password reset with my test (non-Apache) 
account at https://translate.apache.org/accounts/password/reset/ and I 
did receive the mail a few minutes later. You can retry too, but I think 
the issue can be closed (the server needed whitelisting as a server 
allowed to send e-mail).


Regards,
  Andrea

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