Technical Meeting - 21st June

[Dave Cross]

Oh... er... it's only three days to the technical meeting and so far I don't
seem to have any talks for it.

I'll write my "Perl for the People" talk tonight and give that, and I think 
that Robin wanted to do something.

There must be others out there who want to practice talks that they'll be
giving at TPC or YAPC::E. Please let me know.

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: early peek at a bit of fun

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 11:53:30PM +0200, Paul Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 10:38:44PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> 
> > and you've now been associated on the page with us as well ;-)
> 
> Thanks.  I'll have to be an honourary member since I'm in Switzerland at
> the moment, but at least it bumps up the percentages on the web page 

That's just down the road in comparison to some of the people that 
consider themselves members of london.pm :)

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: early peek at a bit of fun

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 11:29:27PM +0200, Paul Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 10:18:47PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> 
> > Family graphs? Good call. What was that ancestry format again?
> 
> GEDCOM.  I wrote Gedcom.pm and I've actually had a couple of people
> asking about Graphviz, but I had to say I didn't know anything about it.

Credit where credit is due. I should probably point out that I made very
heavy use of Paul's GEDCOM.pm when writing webged.

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: early peek at a bit of fun

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 10:18:47PM +0100, Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> Richard Clamp sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > Yeah but if you did just parse 02packages blindly then Leon would have
> > a bigger headstart with all of the Graphviz::GraphMyAunt modules.
> 
> Family graphs? Good call. What was that ancestry format again?

Do you mean GEDCOM?

I made a start at something to create data structures based on GEDCOM files
and create web pages using TT2. Feel free to snarf code from



Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: early peek at a bit of fun

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:42:20PM +0100, Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > It is a very alpha-ish cgi script that simply compiles a 
> > Leader Board of known London.pm people
> 
> The modules list is a bit out of date in this case (I'm at eight)...

And, of course, not all modules on CPAN are in the module list 
(see, for example, Symbol::Approx::Sub).

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

NYC Pictures

[Dave Cross]

A lot later that originally planned [insert bootsphoto.com rant here] I've
finally got my photos of NYC back and am currently in the process of
uploading them to .

Some semblance of order may well be imposed if I ever get some more spare
time, but currently you'll just have to make do with a default index page.

Whilst I'm quite happy to take the blame for the poor composition and
lack of focus, the general washed-out colour is, I'm sure, the fault of
Boots. I (or, more accurately, my camera) are usually better than that :)

Caption competition anyone?

Enjoy,

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: YAPC::Europe

[Dave Cross]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:45:32PM +0100, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> * Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > It had been my intention for the whole Gellyfish Clan to venture forth to
> > Amsterdam but it looks like I will be the only representative now as the
> > leader has decided that she has been to Amsterdam too many times
> > previously to justify the cost and I cant be arsed to argue about it :)
> > 
> 
> So how many of clan Cross intend to travel?

Just the one. Gill has no real interest in visiting Amsterdam - especially
not in the company of a load of geeks :)

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

bk strikes again

[Dave Cross]

It's all been pretty civilised over on the Cookwook board recently which has
made a nice change. I suspect it might all kick off again tho' when bk sees
my response to his contribution to this thread:



Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

[Dave Cross]

On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:55:17PM -0500, Mike Jarvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> Larry speaks in a bit over 9 hours.  Yippee!

Actually - he doesn't :)



Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: "Perl & CGI For The World Wide Web"

[Dave Cross]

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 12:10:08PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Remember the discussion some months ago about what a horrible book this
> > was?
> > 
> > Well, I've been exchanging emails with the author since slagging her off
> > big-time on Amazon. Somehow I've managed to make her thing that my input
> > is useful and I've just received a copy of the second edition of the book.
> 
> So how are the kiddiez taking it?

No response so far. I'll keep you posted :)

Dave...

"Perl & CGI For The World Wide Web"

[Dave Cross]

Remember the discussion some months ago about what a horrible book this
was?

Well, I've been exchanging emails with the author since slagging her off
big-time on Amazon. Somehow I've managed to make her thing that my input
is useful and I've just received a copy of the second edition of the book.

* Every example uses /usr/bin/perl -wT

* Every example uses strict (and, therefore, my)

* Every example used CGI::param

I consider this a massive improvement.

Dave...

p.s Oh, and the acknowledgements page lists "Dave Cross, who not only pointed
out the problems, but also helped me solve them" :)

Re: Upcoming technical meeting

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:34:28PM +0100, Peter Haworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> Can someone please remind me about the technical meeting on the 21st? Now 
> that it looks like I might be in London at the time, I find I've deleted 
> all the relevant messages and can't remember if there's an archive.

Well, er..., there will be a meeting on the 21st. I spoke to Alex last 
night and he said we could hold it at State 51.

We'll start at about 7pm and people will be practiving TPC and YAPC::E 
talks.

Thanks about it for planning so far!

Dave...

Re: Social meet

[Dave Cross]

On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 04:59:26PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> 
> Oki, assuming I don't get stranded in rush hour traffic (I'm only
> ickle), can find my way to the the PO (I used to do orienteering)
> and can recognise you lot, I shall see you tomorrow.  Tho' if
> anyone going has a mobile I'd appreciate the number just in case.

I'm on 07973 553385.

Dave...

Re: BUFFY - SPOILERS , DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN SKY 1 LAST NIGHT

[Dave Cross]

On Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 04:45:45PM +0100, Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> Dave, U still need last weeks video ?

Nope. All caught up now thanks.

Dave...

Re: BUFFY - SPOILERS , DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN SKY 1 LAST NIGHT

[Dave Cross]

On Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 07:47:00AM +0100, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* 
> *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* 
> *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well what about last night? Buffy no more? Well I'm pretty sure she
> will be back, my reasoning - they played the normal end of show credits/
> theme tune, if they had of killed the character off, there would of been
> a special ending. Mind you, when I explained this theory to the wife she
> used the phrase ``clutching at straws''

Well, how about the argument that SMG has singed up for two more series?

Dave...

Fwd: [info@yapceurope.org: YAPC::Europe conference, August 2-4, 2001, Amsterdam.]

[London.pm - Dave Cross]

- Forwarded message from "YAPC::Europe spamrobot :)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

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Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:02:48 +0200
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "YAPC::Europe spamrobot :)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: YAPC::Europe conference, August 2-4, 2001, Amsterdam.
To: "London.pm - Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

You are listed as the contact address for London.pm on
<http://www.pm.org/groups.shtml>. Please forward this message to the
members of your Perl Mongers group, if appropriate.

The European Yet Another Perl Conference will take place August 2-4,
2001, in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

The success of the conference depends upon participation from groups all
over Europe. You are encouraged to send speech proposals--including
lightning talks--to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asap.

Tickets will be on sale soon; look at the website at
<http://www.yapc.org/Europe/> for the latest details, or join the
discussion mailing list advertised on the site.

Best regards,

--
Jan-Pieter Cornet


- End forwarded message -

Re: Odd idiom

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, May 28, 2001 at 11:20:04PM -0700, Paul Makepeace 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Why do people say "inherits from the Foo::Bar manpage" and not "Foo::Bar
> module/class"? I mean, how can something inherit from a lump of
> documentation? Is this one of those klutz kult phenomenon or something
> I'm not "in" on? :)

It's a bug (or maybe just a limitation) in the pod2man converter. If you say

  see L for more information

then it's expanded to "see the Foo::Bar manpage for more information". This is
fine mot of the time, but can occasionally lead to the kind of weirdness that
you describe above.

Dave...

Re: Tie::Hash::Regex vs Tie::RegexpHash

[Dave Cross]

At 23:26 25/05/2001, Piers Cawley wrote:
>Chris Devers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > At 02:18 PM 2001.05.25 +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> > >[1] Hmmm... note to self - see if you can come up
> > >with a tied hash that abbreviates to T::H::C.
> >
> > Semi-plausible: Tie::Hash::Complex
> > Not-plausible: Tie::Hash::Cannabis
> >
> > Might see the light of day?: Tie::Hash::Conway
>
>Presumably this will lead to a load of gags about not wanting to go
>too far from his stash?

/me giggles insanely and wanders off in search of munchies :)


-- 
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Perl Training in the UK
<http://www.iterative-software.com/training/>

Re: Decisions decisions

[Dave Cross]

At 17:57 25/05/2001, David Cantrell wrote:

>/me falls off the edge
>
>aaa ... SPLAT


He's fallen in the water.



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Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21

[Dave Cross]

At 14:31 25/05/2001, Leon Brocard wrote:
>Leon Brocard sent the following bits through the ether:
>
> > there is also an unofficial technical meet for practicing TPC talks
> > on Saturday from noon at state51:
>
>Just to confirm, this is still on. state51 is at 8-10 rhoda street,
>london e2 7ef:
>http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=E27EF&Z=1
>
>See you there, Leon

It seems I have Important Stuff To Do and therefore won't be there.

Have fun.

Dave...


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Re: [Announce] Hackspoitation film fest

[Dave Cross]

At 23:18 24/05/2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>* Barbie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > I seem to remember an extremely soft porn-ish film with julie andrews
> > > at one stage, all i can remember is giant toy soldiers. I don't think
> > > porn is even the right title it was more just weird.
> >
> > You're thinking of the "comedy" S.O.B., where a film director decides his
> > wife (played by Julie Andrews)should go topless to increase the film's
> > rating and the director's flagging career. Oddly enough the film is 
> directed
> > by Andrew's husband at the time, Blake Edwards. Life imitating art or visa
> > versa?
>
>but where there giant toy soldiers in it?

Yes.


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Re: Beer fest beckons

[Dave Cross]

At 23:00 24/05/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
>On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:28:49PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
>
> > So I get a call on my mobile in the middle of the beer fest from a
> > potential collaborator telling me he can't send me the promised
> > documentation due to the fact my inbox has exploded spectacularly
> > and exceeded my meagre disk quota.  Given that I'm far too busy drinking
> > ale to go and faff around wth the university computing service, I shall
> > temporarily unsubscribe.
>
>THere is the option of cadging a shell account off of someone, with
>no fascist disk quota ...

/me points out the irony of telling Lucy this onlist when she has 
unsubscribed :)

Dave...


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Re: POSIX::localeconv()/Germany

[Dave Cross]

At 20:18 23/05/2001, you wrote:
>Anybody have experience with POSIX localization functions/clients in
>Germany?
>
>I've got a client in .de that wants prices to look like this:
>DEM 1.234,00
>i.e., the thousands sep is a "." and the decimal is a ",".
>
>The posix routines return a space for the thousands sep and a dot for
>the decimal, so prices look like:
>DEM 1 234.00
>
>Do I just have weird clients or is $lconv->{thousands_sep} returning
>the wrong value?

Mike,

Haven't tried the routine you're talking about, but if you ever decide to 
give up on them, the Number::Format module (from CPAN) will solve all of 
your problems.

>Danke,

Bitte,

Dave...


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Re: Buffy gear

[Dave Cross]

At 19:16 23/05/2001, Dean wrote:
>On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 07:18:23PM +0100, Barry Pretsell wrote:
> > QVC are selling lots of Buffy gear, tune into QVC now, or check out the 
> wbesite
>
>"Charisma Carpenter 'Cordelia' Signed Photo" £64...
>
>Now i'm scared...

Far cheaper on Yahoo Auctions:



Signed photos from £9.99.

Dave...


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Re: Election Manifestos

[Dave Cross]

At 17:37 22/05/2001, Roger Burton West wrote:
>On or about Tue, May 22, 2001 at 05:23:32PM +0100, Cross David - dcross typed:
>
> >I've not actually seen the manifesto, but from what I'm told it really means
>
>If you can't be bothered to take a few minutes to look, why the hell are
>you posting about it? The actual text is:
>
>"A future Conservative Government will repeal IR35 and replace it with
>legislation that addresses genuine abuses."

Because, although I hadn't read the manifesto, I _had_ read the news 
stories when this piece of policy was announced about two months ago.

>In other words, it'll be in the pockets of whichever lobby group pays
>them most at the time, just as the Labour one was.

Exactly. What I object to is the contractors I hear saying that just 
because the Tories have said they'll abolish IR35 then they _must_ vote for 
them. Conveniently ignoring a few facts:

1/ The second half of the sentence states that it will be replaced by 
something else. And we really have no idea what it might be.

2/ Most intelligent people make up their minds who to vote for on the basis 
of more than one issue.

3/ Some contractors don't actually agree that IR35 is such a bad thing.

[snip oversized corporate disclaimer]

>And get a shell account, why don't you?

Thanks. I already have several. And I can't get to any of them from within 
Acxiom without spending inordinate amounts of time doing things that I'm 
not being paid for. I will, however, spend some time this weekend trying to 
fix my webmail that my ISP broke somehow a couple of months ago.

Much as I'd love it if everyone was to be able to post to the list from 
their favourite Unix mail client all the time, I understand that is never 
going to happen. We are just going to accept that some people will always 
be forced to post using whatever email fuckwittage their company lands them 
with. Yes, there _are_ always round it, but some people don't have the time 
or knowledge to do that. This email client snobbery is getting too 
frequent. Just because someone is posting from an Exchange server, it 
doesn't necessarily mean that what they are saying is less valid.

I intended this group (and, by extension, this mailing list) to be 
inclusive. We should be encouraging people to use Perl, not scaring them 
off because they use the wrong email client.

Dave...
[bugger! another grumpy start to the day]


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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 23:30 21/05/2001, David H. Adler wrote:
>On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 08:28:24AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> >
> > Don't think anyone writes technical books for money. If they do, then
> > they're in for a big shock.
>
>...and you can just imagine how much more true that is for editing
>technical books... :-)
>
>dha, used some of his editing money to buy a new guitar, though...

ITYM "used his editing money to buy some of a new guitar" :)

Dave...


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Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women

[Dave Cross]

At 20:50 20/05/2001, Mike Jarvis wrote:
>Sunday, May 20, 2001, 3:19:47 AM, Dave Cross wrote:
>
>DC> And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was
>DC> simply by looking at a photo.
>
>This is really two questions:
>1) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like
>to have a relationship with?  (No)
>
>2) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like
>to have sex with?(Yes)

OK. Well that's where I'm getting confused then. By believing the sex is 
also a relationship (however fleeting!) I think that the answer to 2 is 
also 'No' :)

Dave...


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Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women

[Dave Cross]

At 10:52 20/05/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
>On Sun, 20 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>
> > I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who
> > finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really
> > understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in
> > this way.
>
>Although of course everyone objects most vociferously when Cosmo or some
>similar magazines produce a list of 'The Worlds Sexiest Men'. :)

"Ooh, look! Look! They're doing it to. Therefore it _must_ be alright!"

Personally I find it just as objectionable, but funnily enough you don't it 
anywhere near as much.

> > And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was
> > simply by looking at a photo.
>
>Its in the eyes, Dave, its in the eyes.

See, I find it's in the personality. Which doesn't come across too well in 
glossy magazine.

> > Dave...
> > [disgruntled]
>
>Yeah, we noticed. Bad Hangover ?-)

No. That was yesterday. Today I'm just ranting at the world for no good reason.

Dave...


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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 13:27 20/05/2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:

>You can't expect to steal music and then bitch about how someone is
>stealing copies of your book on line.

True. But just so as we know where we all stand. I have only ever used 
Napster to find copies of unavailable music.

Dave...


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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 10:14 20/05/2001, Barry Pretsell wrote:

> > A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel
> > thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website.
>
>Why do Manning sell their books online as pdf files? and do they plan to
>stop it now that rampant copying is taking place?

Two very good questions. But ones that are better addressed to Manning. 
I'll certainly be passing them on later today. I'll let you know what the 
responses are.

Dave...


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Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women

[Dave Cross]

At 00:06 20/05/2001, James Powell wrote:
>On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:00:38AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
> > Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list...
> > >
> > > The interesting bits are as follows;
> >
> > The really interesting bit was Mr Ford dancing around in his living
> > room crowing because Sara Cox had read his name out on the radio.
>
>Ahh Sara Cox - as deserving of her position in the FHM top 100 women
>as she is of her £750K out of the license fee for two years blathering.

I'm sure I'm really in the minority here, but I can't be the only one who 
finds all this discussion of the FHM list distasteful. I've never really 
understood why intelligent men find it acceptable to objectify women in 
this way.

And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man) was 
simply by looking at a photo.

Dave...
[disgruntled]


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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 00:18 20/05/2001, Dean S Wilson wrote:

 > I suppose the issue with books as PDF is that it leaves you wide open to 
rampant
 > copying...

A problem we're currently encountering with DMP. Some dickhead in Israel 
thinks it's clever to distribute the PDF for free from his website.

Dave...


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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 17:28 19/05/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
>On Sat, 19 May 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
>
> > Robin Houston writes:
> > > Don't forget the ever-fabulous http://corvin.spb.ru/
> >
> > I'd also like to say that I'm pretty disgusted that the Perlmongers,
> > of all people, would advocate pirating the Camel.  Yeah, way to thank
> > Larry!
> >
>
>I'm not entirely sure that anyone was actively advocating piracy.

I disagree. IMO, posting a link to site containing pirate copies of books 
_is_ advocating piracy. YMMV.

Dave...


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Buffy - Argh!

[Dave Cross]

For some reason, on Friday night Sky One, NTL and my VCR all conspired 
against me to give me a recording of Buffy and Angel with perfect picture 
and no sound. I'm guessing that's not how they were intended to be seen.

If anyone can lend me a recording at some time this week I'd be most grateful.

Cheers,

Dave...

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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 01:46 20/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
>On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 07:20:31AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> > Who here has written a book?  Simon and Dave at least.  It's not easy,
> > is it?
>
>You're asking the wrong guy. I don't write books for money, I write
>them to contribute information.

Don't think anyone writes technical books for money. If they do, then 
they're in for a big shock.

Having said that tho', it _is_ nice to get at least some financial 
recompense for the months of next-to-no social life.

>This is why, unlike some people, I don't blatantly plug my book at the
>end of every mail.

:)

What. Like below

Dave...
[thinking for some time that it's about time for a new .sig anyway]


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Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Dave Cross]

At 12:12 19/05/2001, Robin Houston wrote:
>On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:30:28PM +0100, Barry Pretsell wrote:
> > It sounds like a good idea (must be better than having 3 editions
> > of Programming Perl) and I'm tempted to give it a go, so any Safari
> > subscribers out there with an opinion?
>
>Don't forget the ever-fabulous http://corvin.spb.ru/

Er do you _really_ want to advertise that on a list that contains 
people who work for O'Reilly?

Dave...
[currently trying to get _his_ book removed from such a repository]



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RE: TPC Quiz Team

[Dave Cross]

At 13:45 17/05/2001, you wrote:
>Cross David - dcross writes:
> > Having read Nat's article in the new TPJ, I think we should also have:
> >
> > "The use of Buffy the Vampiure Slayer in association with the Perl language
> > is a trademark of the London Perl Mongers"
>
>It's been so long, I have to ask: what was my article in the most
>recent TPJ? :-)

It was a beginners guide to Arrays. Complete with examples drawing heavily 
on the world of Buffy.

Dave...


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Re: Buffy ...

[Dave Cross]

At 17:20 16/05/2001, Dean wrote:
>On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 05:08:17PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
>
> > http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/51586918
>
>"The economy took another downturn today as the few remaining London
>based dot-coms utilized the last of their ever diminishing budgets in
>an attempt to procure an item that would see off the vampire ^Hventure
>capitalists. One of the companies to survive todays spending spree was
>MagSol, the founder Dave was heard to say "Willows better.""



Dave...


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Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Dave Cross]

At 17:38 13/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
>On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 05:22:49PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > How can any socialist not feel that when it came to the crunch 
> socialism was
> > rejected by intelligent people who understood its principals and benefits
> > intimitadly because they could see it would not work for modern Britain?
>
>Which "intelligent people who understood it" would that be, then?

Take a look around you. This list, being representative of the Perl 
community, tends towards the intelligent end of the spectrum. And from what 
I've gathered from the conversations I've had with people here, the vast 
majority of us tend towards the left[1].

Dave...
[1] Cue indignant emails from the half-dozen of so right-wingers I know on 
the list :)


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Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Dave Cross]

At 17:22 13/05/2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 03:45:21PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> >
> > > But given that the Socialist Alliance are only standing in ~100
> > > constituencies, there doesn't seem to be any credible alternative.
> >
> > http://www.socialistalliance.net/constituencies/constitlist.htm for the
> > complete list.
> >
>
>ok i reserve the right to quit this thread at any time, however 
>
>But hasn't `new' labour's example shown that there is no place for
>socialism in modern government? Hasn't their move to capitalism been
>really a well spun admission of defeat? How can any socialist not
>feel that when it came to the crunch socialism was rejected by
>intelligent people who understood its principals and benefits
>intimitadly because they could see it would not work for modern
>Britain?

I'm sure you understand that New Labour has _nothing_ to so with socialism 
in any form. What happened is that after 18 years of Tory government the 
politics of the country _had_ moved to the right and therefore to stand any 
chance of winning the last election, the Labour party thought they had to 
do the same. What they failed to realise, however, was the size of the 
country's disillusionment with the Tories. There really was no need to 
throw out all of the Party's principles. A smaller move to the right would 
have been all that was needed. They'd still have won, albeit with a smaller 
majority.

The problem is, of course, that they are now tied to these 'mini-Tory' 
principles and will find it very hard to go back on them. My hope is that 
either this time or in four/five years' time, the Tories will be almost 
completely wiped out or forced to split into two smaller parties. This will 
leave the Lib Dems as the only credible opposition party and, as they're 
currently more left wing than the Labour Party, British politics will 
rejoin much of Europe on the left of the political spectrum.

I only hope it's not too late.

Dave...



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Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Dave Cross]

At 15:27 13/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
>On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 03:30:31AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/18866.html
> > Absurd, laughable and bizarre. What *is* wrong with the UK?
>
>Don't ask me, you elected 'em. And it looks like you're all stupid enough
>to do it *again*.


I know, I know. Blair doesn't have a socialist bone in his body - it's been 
a _most_ disappointing four years, all i all.

But given that the Socialist Alliance are only standing in ~100 
constituencies, there doesn't seem to be any credible alternative.


Dave...

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Re: Traditional music (was Re: Movies (was Re: Buffy musings ...))

[Dave Cross]

At 22:36 12/05/2001, you wrote:

>I prefer trad English. And I really prefer trad. English vocal,
>preferably without instruments...

Known amongst many of my friends as "The Ballad Of God Knows Who"[1]

Dave...

[1] Part of an affectionate classification of folk music into just two 
styles: "The Ballad Of God Knows Who" and "The Diddly-Diddly Song".


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Re: Irish music (was RE: Movies (was Re: Buffy musings ...))

[Dave Cross]

At 22:40 12/05/2001, Piers wrote:

> > What are you doing between TPC and Y::E? You sound like the kind of person
> > who would really enjoy the Cambridge Folk Festival
> > .
>
>Do any possible folk festival you can, but avoid cambridge. Too rock
>and roll nowadays.

This is what I like about Cambridge - the fact that it's not too anal about 
exactly what is folk music. The first time I ever went there ('81, I think) 
we saw Chas 'n' Dave. And John Cooper Clark.

I stopped going a few years ago. It was getting far too crowded.

Dave...


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Fwd: YAPC::Europe reminders, and requests for help (fwd)

[Dave Cross]

FYI, Ann is one of the Y::E committee this year.

Dave...

>Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:13:49 +0200 (CEST)
>From: Ann Barcomb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: YAPC::Europe reminders, and requests for help (fwd)
>
>You talked about giving London.pm a push.  I figured I'd send you the
>letter I just sent Amsterdam.pm...maybe some parts of it can be re-used.
>
>Atm we're short on both full-length and lightning talks.
>
>Ann
>
>-- Forwarded message --
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:23:44 +0200 (CEST)
>From: Ann Barcomb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Amsterdam PM mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: YAPC::Europe reminders, and requests for help
>
>I just wanted to remind everyone that the deadline for speech proposals
>for YAPC::Europe is in less than 3 weeks, on 1 June.
>
>If you hadn't really thought about giving a speech because you don't think
>you could fill the entire time, or you're worried about speaking, consider
>giving a lightning talk.  With only 5 minutes of time to fill, you could
>probably compose your speech during the conference!  Just send a title
>and 1 line about the topic to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.  Or just mail
>if you can commit to giving a lightning talk, even if you haven't thought
>of a topic yet.
>
>We're still looking for sponsors.  If you know of companies that might
>be willing to sponsor the conference, mail Jouke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
>Publicity is another area where we could use help.  Suggestions and
>contacts for flyer distribution (such as at other conferences, meetings,
>etc) can be sent to me.
>
>Thanks,
>Ann
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Irish music (was RE: Movies (was Re: Buffy musings ...))

[Dave Cross]

At 16:56 09/05/2001, you wrote:
>Cross David - dcross writes:
> > Well, I prefer stuff with lyrics, but enjoy almost any kind of Irish (and
> > English) folk music.
>
>The CDs on high rotation right now are:
>
>   Brendan Begley, "We Won't Go Home 'Til Morning"
>   Green Linnet Artists, "Green Linnet Records: The 20th Anniversary
> Collection"
>   Kevin Burke, "Sweeney's Dream"
>   Kevin Burke, "In Concert"
>   Kevin Burke, "Up Close"
>   Lúnasa, "Lúnasa"

Some names there that I don't know, but will be checking out. I bet the 
Green Linnet compilation is good.

> > What are you doing between TPC and Y::E? You sound like the kind of person
> > who would really enjoy the Cambridge Folk Festival
> > .
>
>That looks great (and it pointed me to The Black Cat Theory, a banjo
>band I will watch), but it's too far away.  As I'm sure you'll agree,
>the flight between California and London is one that you want to make
>as few times as possible.

I assumed you could stop in on the way to Amsterdam :)

>However, Dublin is closer.  Dublin, Ohio that is.
>   http://www.dublinirishfestival.org/
>
>It has some bands I've heard of (Altan, Cherish the Ladies, Martin &
>Dennis) and might be a lot of fun.  Downside is that it's Ohio :-)

I've seen (and enjoyed) both Altan and Cherish The Ladies.

Dave...


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Re: Buffy musings ...

[Dave Cross]

At 21:59 08/05/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
>On Tue, 8 May 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>
> > At 18:26 08/05/2001, Dean wrote:
> > >On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:20:33PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
> > >
> > > > Whilst we're (kinda) on the topic, can I have a reminder of
> > > > who's going to yapc.  I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing over whther I can
> > > > afford it (us phud students suffer for our science).
> > >
> > >I'm interested in going to YAPC, is London PM going as a group or is 
> it all
> > >just ad-hoc?
> >
> > What do you _honestly_ think the answer to that question will be?
>
>I _honestly_ believe that if the will is there we *will* get it together
>as a group to go :)

I'll believe it when I see it!

>I'm still just trying to find a reasonably priced hotel with a proper bar 
>... :)

The organising committee are trying to get the details of the dorms in the 
school. These will be a) very cheap and b) very close to the venue.

Dave...


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Re: Buffy musings ...

[Dave Cross]

At 18:26 08/05/2001, Dean wrote:
>On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:20:33PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
>
> > Whilst we're (kinda) on the topic, can I have a reminder of
> > who's going to yapc.  I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing over whther I can
> > afford it (us phud students suffer for our science).
>
>I'm interested in going to YAPC, is London PM going as a group or is it all
>just ad-hoc?

What do you _honestly_ think the answer to that question will be?

Dave...


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Re: Buffy musings ...

[Dave Cross]

At 18:10 08/05/2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
>... I wonder how hard it would be to get Faith or Charisma Carpenter
>or one of those other "minor" characters to do a meet'n'greet at TPC.
>I suspect they're hard to dislodge from LA, but it might still be
>worth a try[1].  I'm tracking down their agents now.

Try Kate from 'Angel' too. Please.

Dave...


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Re: More revolting natives

[Dave Cross]

At 17:56 04/05/2001, Dean wrote:

>Does the author of the book take an interest in the web group? I'd hope
>she'd be on there correcting him.

She's around occasionally. She's a bit busy at the moment - getting the 
next edition finished before her baby is born later this month.

Dave...



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Fwd: perl jobs page and list

[Dave Cross]

>Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:15:40 -0400
>From: Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: perl jobs page and list
>Reply-to: Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>pm group leaders:
>
>please forward this to your local pm groups.
>
>as some of you may know there have been a perl jobs announce and wanted
>lists hosted on pm.org. those lists have been merged and moved to the
>perl.org site. there are now these two lists:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>which is moderated and is only for posting of both job openings and
>situations wanted.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>which is not moderated and is meant to discuss the perl jobs list and
>web site as well and any other perl job related topics.
>
>go to jobs.perl.org for information on how to subscribe and the posting
>guidelines. if your pm group has a home page you might want to link to
>this page.
>
>the page and list are for perl jobs worldwide. telecommuting, relocation
>and other options are common so don't think you have to be in a
>particular goegraphic location to participate. also agencies and HR
>types are welcome too. spread the word about this page and list to any
>of those you know who deal with the perl job market.
>
>thanx,
>
>uri
>
>--
>Uri Guttman  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  http://www.sysarch.com
>SYStems ARCHitecture and Stem Development -- http://www.stemsystems.com
>Learn Advanced Object Oriented Perl from Damian Conway - Boston, July 10-11
>Class and Registration info: http://www.sysarch.com/perl/OOP_class.html
>
>**Majordomo list services provided by PANIX http://www.panix.com>**
>**To Unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe groups" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]**


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Re: Not Matt's Scripts

[Dave Cross]

At 19:53 30/04/2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:

>I've got someone needing a form to mail script. Where's ours[0]?
>
>Ta,
>
>Dave
>
>[0] Oh, all right, yours since I bottled out.

Current version is at 
 but it needs some 
tightening up and peer review.

Dave...



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Linux.com Transcript

[Dave Cross]

Some people have asked me about a transcript of my recent chat about DMP on 
Linux.com. Well, it's just appeared at:



Dave...


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Re: Stuffed camel

[Dave Cross]

At 19:25 29/04/2001, Leon Brocard wrote:

>Can *someone* please pick a date to go visit the camel?

Can't be done until a) the foot and mouth stuff has died down and b) I've 
worked out exactly who has paid for slices.

Dave...



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RE: Re: Review of Data munging with Perl on Slashdot

[Dave Cross]

>From: Jonathan Stowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 4/26/01 9:30:01 PM
>
>On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Niklas Nordebo wrote:
>
>> Gets a 9, apparently.
>>
>> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/04/26/1229238&mode=thread
>>
>
>For $deities sake dont tell Dave ...

Too late!

Dave...
[feeling smug]
-- 


"The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one",
he said. But still they come.

Re: Mutagenic modules: online slides

[Dave Cross]

At 01:35 21/04/2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>* Damian Conway ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >> "You can't just make up any old shit and expect the computer to 
> know what
> >> you mean, retardo!"
> >
> > Hey! Stop undermining the sole basis of my entire career!
> >
>
>go to sleep, what time do you call this! ;-)

Australia!



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Re: The Natives are Revolting

[Dave Cross]

At 22:13 18/04/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>
> > At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> > >On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > >
> > > > * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > JS! stop it i'm replying!
> > >
> > >LOL at Greg's post.
> >
> > Greg++
> >
>
>You've upset them now :
>
><http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473>

I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people

Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal 
profiles:

bk:<http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk>
Chris: <http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris>

Dave...



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Re: The Natives are Revolting

[Dave Cross]

At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>
> > * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > >
> > > <http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453>
> > >
> >
> > JS! stop it i'm replying!
>
>LOL at Greg's post.

And now this in a new thread:

"Usually BK is the right one. And from what I see, the codes your are 
handing out are a bumch of BS. The codes maybe right but they are a long 
way of doing things and I agree with BK. The help you give out is really 
not that great."

Dave...



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Re: The Natives are Revolting

[Dave Cross]

At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>
> > * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > >
> > > <http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453>
> > >
> >
> > JS! stop it i'm replying!
>
>LOL at Greg's post.

Greg++



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The Natives are Revolting

[Dave Cross]

Remember the Liz Castro BBS that I was talking about a few weeks ago. Simon 
mentioned that a couple of the natives were getting restless and seemed 
uncomfortable with me being there.

Well, one of them has finally snapped and is currently having a real go at 
me. If you want to take a look, read the thread that starts at:



Enjoy,

Dave...


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RE: Tech mtg?

[Dave Cross]

At 17:08 18/04/2001, jo walsh wrote:

> > this all gives me a creeping sense of deja type
>
>yeah, i've just looked and realised it says almost exactly the same thing
>on the website, except in more detail:
>http://london.pm.org/WhatDo.shtml

Did _I_ do that? Whatever happened to my memory? (rhetorical!)

Dave...



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Re: The Most Boring Thread Ever on London.pm : Cool Letter Heads

[Dave Cross]

At 10:25 14/04/2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, you wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
> > >
> > > ooh .. that reminds me .. the Census man has just dropped a form in .. I
> > > didn't reallise it was this year .. excellent .. now dont forget .. your
> > > religion is 'Jedi' ok ?
> > >
> >
> > WHy not 'Perl Monger' ?
>
>because for it to be accepted as an official religion (whatever the hell
>that is) you need 20,000 people in the country to claim to follow it ..
>then it gets all the usual benfits of being able to claim anti-jedi
>discrimination, the right to bring a light sabre to work, extra days
>holiday because The Force is weak today etc. I cant quite see 20,000 Perl
>Mongers .. but hey .. I could be wrong

The number quoted in the email was 200,000 - but that apparently applies in 
New Zealand where this idea started. Someone changed NZ to UK on the email 
without checking facts. On the UK Census, no religion except the ones 
listed will be counted. All of the 'others' will be counted in one bucket. 
so, IMHO, you'd be far better off demonstrating to our horribly Xtian 
government just how many of us are atheist.

Sorry to spoil the fun!

Dave...



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Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April

[Dave Cross]

At 22:10 09/04/2001, Neil Ford wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 04:09:14PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
> >
> > If anyone doesn't know (or has forgotten), there will be a technical 
> meeting
> > on Thursday 19th April. It will be at State 51[1] and we'll start at about
> > 7pm. Details on how to get to State 51 will appear on the web site... er...
> > soon.
> >
>Ummm forewarned is forearmed Nat and I might not be able to make this
>which means getting hold of the projector might be a problem :-(
>
>If someone wants to pop down to West Sussex to collect it they are more than
>welcome, unfortunately I'm not travelling into London as much as I was.

Neil,

Thanks for warning me.

Does anyone want to take on the task of being projector monitor and picking 
it up from Sussex?

Dave...



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Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April

[Dave Cross]

At 19:16 09/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 04:09:14PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
>
> > might be nice to have status reports from:
> >
> > * The t-shirt committee
>
>There has been movement on this!
>
>I, however, will not be able to attend cos I have a visitor from the
>darker regions of the galaxy.

I understood that you had delegated the actual work to someone else.

Can you ensure that your vice-chair is able to speak in your place.

Dave...



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RE: Books

[Dave Cross]

At 19:58 04/04/2001, Doug Sparling wrote:
> > Dave...
> > [wondering how he gets to be a technical editor]
>
> >My experience suggests it may have something to do with being in the
> >right place at the right time... :)
>
>Same goes for authoring -:)

Oh, I know that :)

Dave...



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Re: Books

[Dave Cross]

At 19:01 04/04/2001, David H. Adler wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:26:02AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
> >
> > Wanderering around Charing Cross Road last night I picked up a couple 
> of new
> > Perl books, "Writing CGI Applications with Perl" by Kevin Meltzer & Brent
> > Michalski and "Instant Perl Modules" by Doug Sparling and Frank Wiles.
>
>That second one has an *excellent* acknowledgements page... :-)

Heh! I know, I saw it :)

Dave...
[wondering how he gets to be a technical editor]



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Re: sub BEGIN {}

[Dave Cross]

At 21:12 03/04/2001, you wrote:
>Oh, so this list was a bunch of nutters and Buffy fans the whole time
>and no-one told me?

Yeah. Sorry. We should probably make that clearer :)

Dave...



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Re: Web Server Configuration

[Dave Cross]

At 22:56 02/04/2001, you wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 09:45:59PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
>
> > As it`s not in my cgi-bin directory I`d expect to be shown the source of
> > the script when I access this page. Instead the web server tries to run 
> the
> > script (and gives an error as the execute flag is not set). Even right
> > clicking on a link and choosing `save as` seems to execute the script
> > rather than delivering the source.
>
>I do hope that you were acting the stupid-user role there ;-)  Of *course*
>it does the same thing regardless of which mouse button you use.  They're
>all GET requests, the choice of mouse button just makes the browser behave
>in a different manner.

Yeah. Just trying to find out how much he knew.

> > Allowing executable scripts outside of /cgi-bin seems like a potential
> > security problem to me and it`s certainly not how I`d expect to see a web
> > server configured.
>
>It's how I configure my servers, and I don't see any particular security
>holes.  Of course, I can trust my users not to upload malware, and the
>web server has very few rights.  If I want people to download the source to
>one of my files instead of executing it, I turn off execute permissions.
>There are times when I want them to do *both*, so I have the one file
>(eg demo-code.pl) and reference it with two URLs, demo-code.pl and
>demo-code.pl.src.  The .src URL fails (no such file) so goes to a custom
>404 handler, which Does The Right Thing.  Actually, you can do that with
>any file on my webshite.  I see no problem with giving people access to
>all the source.  Any passwords and the like get pulled in from files outside
>the web hierarchy.

I know. We had this discussion recently. It's not really the security 
aspect that bothers me - more that they seem incapable of configuring a web 
server in a way that is so common and so obvious.

> > to which, I got the following response:
> >
> > ok you are now restricted to designated cgi directorys, and no it is 
> not as
> > dangerous as you may think the only way people can gain access to add
> > scripts is to use your username and password to upload the script in the
> > first place, plus someone has to find your webserver and also have the
> > knowledge to be able to get past my security on the server. this brings it
> > down to probably a handfull of people in the uk or usa that have these
> > skills, and luckily i know most of these people so i think your sites safe.
>
>DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

Yep. That was the _really_ scary part :)

Dave...



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Data Munging with Perl <http://www.manning.com/cross/>

Web Server Configuration

[Dave Cross]

Does anyone know anything about the configuration of the Zeus web server? 
It's the web server that my main web hosts use and it's all getting a bit 
confusing.

You may remember last week when I posted the URL of my Not-Matt scripts, in 
. Gellyfish pointed out that the 
web server was configured to execute the scripts - even tho they weren't in 
the cgi-bin. This has lead to the following interchange with tech support...

I wrote this:

=

I have a Perl script in

http://www.dave.org.uk/scripts/webmail.pl

As it`s not in my cgi-bin directory I`d expect to be shown the source of 
the script when I access this page. Instead the web server tries to run the 
script (and gives an error as the execute flag is not set). Even right 
clicking on a link and choosing `save as` seems to execute the script 
rather than delivering the source.

Allowing executable scripts outside of /cgi-bin seems like a potential 
security problem to me and it`s certainly not how I`d expect to see a web 
server configured.

Can you please check that my servers are configured so that only scripts in 
the /cgi-bin directory are executed. The default content type for all other 
directories should be text/plain.

Thanks,



to which, I got the following response:



ok you are now restricted to designated cgi directorys, and no it is not as 
dangerous as you may think the only way people can gain access to add 
scripts is to use your username and password to upload the script in the 
first place, plus someone has to find your webserver and also have the 
knowledge to be able to get past my security on the server. this brings it 
down to probably a handfull of people in the uk or usa that have these 
skills, and luckily i know most of these people so i think your sites safe.

ken

sorry to waffle on sometimes i turn off the bofh head.



Which is pretty scary, all in all :) After this I just started getting 
"Access Denied" errors on the script, so I send the following:



Ken,

The configuration changes you made don`t seem to have worked properly. I 
now get an access denied error when I try to view 
http://www.dave.org.uk/scripts/ms-webmail.pl. The configuration that I`d 
like is:

any URL within htdocs - deliver file to client
any URL within cgi-bin - execute file and deliver output to client

This is the default setup for Apache - is Zeus really different?

Cheers,

===

and got this response

===

well you cant have both scripts are either run from cgi-bin or from other 
desinated directorys or all. i can add that one directory as script execute 
enabled but that info will be lost if i ever reinstall the webserver, I 
have to keep things the same for all websites or things will be worse than 
now for keeping track of customers changes.

so i can put it back to how it was or i can add the path to scripts which 
will be lost if i restore a backup or we can revert to the old config.

hope that helps you see the problems i have with 8 domains to look 
after i do not want to mix and match website configurations and i need one 
that works for all.

ken

==

I can, of course, see his problems with 80,000 virtual servers (!) to look 
after. But am I right in thinking he's completely missed my point?

So if anyone can let help me understand Zeus configuration so that I can 
explain to Ken what I want in terms he'll understand, then I'd be eternally 
grateful. I might even buy a beer.

Dave...


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Re: Social Meeting

[Dave Cross]

At 20:57 02/04/2001, you wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 08:35:13PM +0100, Marty Pauley wrote:
>
> > On Thu Mar 29 03:13:59 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> >
> > > Can someone product a set of simple instructions on how to get there.
> >
> > Could someone please post the directions before Thursday.
>
>http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=532459&Y=180389&A=Y&Z=1

And now on the web site. Apologies for general crapness in not getting this 
done earlier.

Dave...



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Re: Buffycode (was Re: "That book")

[Dave Cross]

At Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:07:28 +0100 (BST), Jonathan Stowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> >
> > And I realise that my description yesterday was slightly inaccurate.
> > I said it would parse Perl approximately. A better description 
> > would be that it parses approximate Perl.
> 
> Thus making the phrase 'you can't make up any old shit and expect it 
> to work' redundant ?

Well, not just "any old shit" - just how mad do you think I am?[1]. But 
maybe it would deal with the occasional typo. Or perhaps keywords in a 
different language... or something like that.

> Crack Head.

Thank you :)

Dave..

[1] Rhetorical!

Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At 29 Mar 2001 11:43:59 +0100, Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > >http://www.tekmetrics.com/ aka brainbench seems to still be going
> > >strong.
> > 
> > And last time I looked, they claimed I was the best Perl programmer
> > in London. Don't expect that to change soon either - as they've just
> > started charging for tests.
> 
> Do they still claim that I'm the best perl programmer in the UK? If so
> it's completely bloody surreal...

According to brainbench, this is a list of the 1o best Perl programmers
in the UK. How many names do _you_ recognise?

4.82 Piers Cawley 
4.71 Matthew Robinson 
4.67 Rob Partington 
4.66 Dave Cross 
4.61 Steve Keay 
4.6 Ben Bell 
4.53 David Bloomfield 
4.49 Christof Damian 
4.46 Nick Cleaton 
4.46 Maurice Buxton 

Dave...

Re: Social Meeting

[Dave Cross]

At Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:27:17 +0100, Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > PS - Since when have messers McCarroll & Cantrell been little 
> > people :)
> 
> I don't know but it implies Cross has put on a hell of a lot of
> weight since i last seen him ;-)

I meant 'little' from a logical perspective - not physical :)

Re: Still screwing up References: (was Re: Job: I'm looking for one..)

[Dave Cross]

At Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:08:44 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:02:39 -0500 (EST), Dave Cross wrote:
> > At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:34:41 +0100, Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 12:02:48PM +0100, alex wrote:
> > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> But look at your headers:
> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> Where's <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dave?

You're right, the referencing is a bit screwed up. I'll take a look at
it today.

Dave...
[who handily has his copy of "Programming Internet Email" on his desk]

Re: Buffycode (was Re: "That book")

[Dave Cross]

At Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:45:23 +0100 (BST), Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> 
> > At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:44:07 +0100, Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>wrote:
> > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 11:35:33AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Would this be an appropriate time to point out that my TPC talk 
> > > > proposes the creation of a Parse::Perl::Approx module :)
> > > 
> > > What does it do?
> > 
> > It, er... parses Perl.
> 
> ooh! I though only perl parsed perl.. how exactly does it parse 
> perl... no its okay I'll look at the pod.. /me cpan's.

Well, I wouldn't look for it just yet. It's only a mad idea right now.

The phrase you're looking for is "only perl can parse Perl", but if
you look at Damian Conway's projects page at 
<http://www.yetanother.org/damian/projects.html> you'll see that he's
planning a Parse::Perl module which will allow Perl (as opposed to perl)
to parse Perl. My proposed module builds on that.

And I realise that my description yesterday was slightly inaccurate.
I said it would parse Perl approximately. A better description would be
that it parses approximate Perl.

Is that any clearer?

Dave...

Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:07:41 +0100, Robin Szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> O'Reilly wil like it cos they get to sell 'Perl For PCSE(stage 1)' 
> etc ..

Ooh. I think you've just given me an idea for my next book :)

Dave...

Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:51:46 +0100 (BST), alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> i am a little unclear what the benefits of this exercise might be 
> without a brand or larger player backing it up. if we could hook up 
> with someone like learning tree (eg they can claim to deliver courses 
> to "PCSE" standards) this might be a big winner.

It's a fair point. But do Learning Tree have a good reputation in the
marketplace? I'm not sure they do.

> ps2 PCSE - Perl Certified Software Engineer? lack of imagination?

Shouldn't that be CPH for "Certified Perl Hacker" or is that missing 
the point?

Dave...

Social Meeting

[Dave Cross]

OK. Bowing to pressure from the heretics - we'll go to the Anchor next
Thursday. Never let it be said that I don't listen to the little 
people :)

Can someone product a set of simple instructions on how to get there.

And the only suggestion I've had so far for the technical meeting on the
19th is a return to State 51. If I have no more suggestions before the
weekend then that's what we'll do.

Oh, and consider this a call for speakers at the technical meeting.

Dave...

Re: Certifiable ( was Re: Job: I'm looking for one.. )

[Dave Cross]

At 22:44 28/03/2001, you wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 10:22:37PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> > There _was_ a Perl certification mailing list that Skud started a while
> > back.
>
>Unless we're thinking of different things, wasn't that just perl-trainers?

No. There was definitely a perlcert as well. I've got about 60 mails from 
it from Mar/Apr last year. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> > Don't know if it still exists tho' - been quiet for a while.
>
>Nothing on lists.perl.org, anyhow.

I'll ask Skud next time I see her on IRC.

Dave...



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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At 22:19 28/03/2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>At 21:24 28/03/2001, Simon wrote:
>>On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:58:36PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>> > Also i think the lack of Perl certification, is one of the biggest
>> > problems with Perl work in london,
>>
>>http://www.tekmetrics.com/ aka brainbench seems to still be going
>>strong.
>
>And last time I looked, they claimed I was the best Perl programmer in 
>London. Don't expect that to change soon either - as they've just started 
>charging for tests.

Bugger! I'm not any more. Matthew Robinson has beaten me into second place.

Dave...
[sulking]



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Re: Certifiable ( was Re: Job: I'm looking for one.. )

[Dave Cross]

At 21:57 28/03/2001, you wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>
> > * Matthew Byng-Maddick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > > > * Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:47:03PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

[Certification things]

>Maybe I should start a mailing list for discussion of this stuff tomorrow
>- thoughts ?

There _was_ a Perl certification mailing list that Skud started a while 
back. Don't know if it still exists tho' - been quiet for a while.

Dave...



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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At 21:24 28/03/2001, you wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:58:36PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > Also i think the lack of Perl certification, is one of the biggest
> > problems with Perl work in london,
>
>Are employers there too stupid to read CVs? Or too lazy? Or is
>there some other benefit certification bestows besides having you
>laughed at in the pub because you ("one", not personally of course :)
>automatically rank alongst all those other "paper" Perl programmers?
>
>http://www.tekmetrics.com/ aka brainbench seems to still be going
>strong.

And last time I looked, they claimed I was the best Perl programmer in 
London. Don't expect that to change soon either - as they've just started 
charging for tests.

Dave...



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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At 20:47 28/03/2001, you wrote:
>* Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > >
> > > Also i think the lack of Perl certification, is one of the biggest
> > > problems with Perl work in london, coming from the other side of
> > > things.
> >
> > Hmm. I wonder how we could go about fixing that.
> >
>
>My favourite solution in business when you are faced with the problem
>of people not wanting you to implement something or not being sure
>about it and wanting a period of consideration is as follows ...
>
>fuck it, just do it
>
>(who says i couldn't work for nike)
>
>I'd suggest that it is a reasonable working assumption that both
>NetThink, Iterative and other Perl Consultancies/Trainers want to
>make money. I'd also state the assumption that if proposed to the
>wider Perl community - Perl certification would go back into
>argument state, so I suggest (with Dave Cross' blessing), that we
>form the London.pm certification. NetThink and Iterative will
>sign up to teach to a given level of skills (or several levels).
>
>This process _has_ to be open and should have a deadline. If we
>can get something that helps london / south england and/or the UK
>then we can achieve something.
>
>I'd advise getting some non-trainers involved as well, perhaps
>Blackstar and other Perl businesses? (their hook will be that
>they become partners and get logo placement in whatever pseudo
>forum/organisation does this)
>
>I realise this action and the attitude may not be popular on
>the wider stage, but ho hum.
>
>Thoughts? If Simon (NetThink), Piers/Leon (Iterative), Dave Cross
>(with his london.pm hat on) and a couple of companies that use
>Perl say this is a good idea, i think we can do this.

Got my blessing - for what it's worth.

Dave...



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Re: Social Meeting (fwd)

[Dave Cross]

At 18:52 28/03/2001, you wrote:
>Ok, I'm useless, but I've just been to talk to the Cittie, and
>they say they're booked out next Thursday.

OK. Looks like it's back to the PO next Thursday then people.

Dave...



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Re: Buffycode (was Re: "That book")

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:44:07 +0100, Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 11:35:33AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
> > 
> > Would this be an appropriate time to point out that my TPC talk 
> > proposes the creation of a Parse::Perl::Approx module :)
> 
> What does it do?

It, er... parses Perl.

Approximately.

Dave...
[I may practice the talk at the next technical meeting]

JOB: Symbian

[Dave Cross]

Anyone interested in this should contact Dave Jobling directly on
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dave...

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:41:58 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Job title: Tools and processes software engineer.
> 
> Where: Tools and Processes Team, System Documentation group, Symbian. 
> We're just off the Edgeware Road, NW1, just 10 minutes walk from both 
> Baker Street and Marble Arch.
> 
> What does that mean?: Symbian develops the EPOC operating system for 
> mobile devices like the Psion Revo, the Ericsson R380 smart phone and 
> the Nokia 9210. The System Documentation group produces the 
> documentation set that acompanies the EPOC Software Development Kits 
> (SDKs), which enable application development in C++ and Java. The 
> Tools and Processes Team develops and maintains tools (written in 
> Perl) for building thousands of XML, graphics and UML files into a 
> hyper-linked HTML docset, among other things. The team is currently 
> three strong within a larger group of about 15. More about the 
> company can be found at http://www.symbian.com.
> 
> What's the vacancy? We're looking for a permanent Perl developer to 
> work on the SysDoc tool chain. We want to extend that to include a 
> javadoc-like tool for parsing C++ source and header files, extracting 
> in-sourced comment, associating it with the structures found in the 
> code, and turning all of that into valid XML for feeding into our 
> build tools. We're also interested in XML things like schemas, xhtml, 
> metadata, and so on.
> 
> Skill set: Definately well experienced in Perl, hopefully ditto in 
> C++ (not necessarily as a full-time developer) and XML. Educated to 
> degree level (preferably in an IT-related subject). Usual stuff about 
> team playing, etc.
>
> Benefits: usual stuff (contributary pension scheme, stock options, 
> health insurance, interest-free travel loan, free Revo, etc). I can't 
> give a salary just yet (but there will be one).
> 
> Feel free to pass this on. Anyone who's interested can email me 
> direct at this address.

Re: Buffycode (was Re: "That book")

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:38:16 +0100 (BST), Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> > Would this be an appropriate time to point out that my TPC talk 
> > proposes the creation of a Parse::Perl::Approx module :)
> 
> You are an evil man.

You know I'm going to take that as a compliment :)

Dave...

Re: Buffycode (was Re: "That book")

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:33:16 -0500, "David H. Adler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:37:14PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> > David H. Adler wrote:
> > > What, no CiP rating???
> > 
> > Well, there wasn't any Perl code included. But it should be pretty
> > straightforward to hack the algorithm together, or might as well 
> > hijack the Convert::Base32 module for the purpose.
> 
> Maybe we should implement a pCiP rating, for *potential* for CiP, 
> based on how marvellously deranged a program is conceptually...

Would this be an appropriate time to point out that my TPC talk 
proposes the creation of a Parse::Perl::Approx module :)

Dave...

Re: yapc::Europe::19101?

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:38:51 +0200, Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Has anyone else heard anything about yapc::Europe::19101?

Yeah. Dates and venues and stuff have been announced. And there was 
a CFP. It's all on .

> ISTR dimly that last year around this time you lot were further down 
> the road in organising things than what I see now. 

I really don't think that's true. My memory is that nothing was
organised until about July. I may be romanticising tho' :)

> This may have been due to the open yapc mailing list where one could 
> see "things happening" -- even if the "things happening" was 
> only "another meeting to try to find a venue". Amsterdam has a venue, 
> but I don't think they have a public mailing list yet, where one can 
> ask about hotels, etc. The website is pretty sparse as well.

They were talking about resurrecting the existing public list. Feel
free to post questions to it and see if you get a response.

> Is anyone here going to be in Amsterdam? 

I will. And, probably, a large contingent of the usual suspects.

> Probably arrive Wednesday, leave Sunday.

> Decided where you're going to stay yet?

Nah. That's months away :)

Dave...

Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:34:41 +0100, Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 12:02:48PM +0100, alex wrote:
> > ps the big killer is that there is no large corporate generating 
> > tons of noise about Perl - whereas this is not the case for Java.
> 
> Wait until TPC.

Sounds interesting. Care to elucidate?

Happy

[Dave Cross]

I'm very happy this afternoon. I've just seen a copy of my book on
a shelf in a bookshop[1]. That's the first time I've seen it in the 
wild. Of course, I'd have been happier if someone had been buying it :)

Dave...

[1] It was Books etc. at Monument if anyone wants to rush out and buy 
it!

Social Meeting

[Dave Cross]

Next social meeting is just over a week away - April 5th - and we 
don't have a confirmed venue. What happened to the plan that someone
(mstevens?) was going to try to book the cellar bar in the Cittie
of Yorke?

Anyone else want to take on that task? Or have another suggestion?

Or shall we just go back to the PO?

Dave...

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:09:37 +0100, Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[London phone codes]

> It was origially 01 ne c'est pas? Then it changed to 071 (Inner 
> London) and 081 (Greater London) then it changed to 0171 and 0181 and 
> then finally to 020 7xxx and 020 8xxx - what people don't seem to 
> realises is that theoretically someone could move in next to me and 
> where I have a number that starts 020 7xxx they could actually have 
> 020 4xxx.

That's right. And all of those changes have happened in the last 10
(12? I'm guessing here) years.

And each time we've been told that the changes will cope with the
demand for phone numbers for many years. Which has been a lie.

Dave...
[who has gone thru all of those codes whilst living in London]

JOB: Anyone interested

[Dave Cross]

Warning - MSB used to have the reputation of being the biggest bunch of
cowboys in the recruitment industry. I wouldn't normally pass this on
but thought it might be of interest to some of the ex-Torrington people.

Oh, and I'll split the referral fee!

> Hello Dave,
> 
> The job I am currently resourcing is based in London near to Liverpool
> Street Station.  The company is looking for 2 Web developers skilled 
> in Perl, My SQL, Apache, Linux and HTML. However training will be 
> offered if candidates are not skilled in all of these areas.  The 
> company is a leading provider of corporate information services 
> offering managed solutions to a variety of clients.  This is a client 
> facing role.  The salary is dependent on experience but is around the 
> £45 - £55K mark.
> 
> If you do know of anyone who may be interested please ensure that 
> they tell me they have been referred by yourself as MSB will pay you 
> £75 for each individual that we place.
> 
> Thanks for your help and I look forward to hearing from you.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sara
> 
> Sara Hansen
> 
> MSB International Plc
> Telephone No. 0208 315 9398
> E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Fax No. 0208 315 9867
>
> ---
> Full registration details of MSB International and our disclaimer
> should be inspected at
> http://www.msb.com/email/uk.asp
> http://www.msb.com/email/ireland.asp
> http://www.msb.com/email/nederlanden.asp
> This email should be read solely in conjunction with our disclaimer.

Re: Helping Less... er... Able... Programmers

[Dave Cross]

At Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:02:29 +0100, Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave Cross wrote:
>  
> > Heh! Go easy on them. Most of them are just harmless idiots. There 
> > are a couple who reckon themselves a bit tho' - and it's quite fun 
> > taking them down a peg or two.
> 
> I've posted a couple of things there now. A coupld of the posters seem
> to have taken umbrage to Dave being the 'Daddy' now - muttering stuff
> about most number of posts.

Heh. I'm the Daddy and they're all my bitches!

> One post was a question about the new edition and whether it was going
> to use strict and turn on warnings.

And you got a response remarkably quickly.

I read the proofs of the first half of the new edition over the weekend.
It does cover -w, use strict and CGI.pm. Haven't seen the security 
stuff yet, but from what I've seen it looks very good.

I may even have to start recommending to people!

Dave...

Re: Helping Less... er... Able... Programmers

[Dave Cross]

At Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:50:26 +0100 (BST), Jonathan Stowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> > Anyway, I didn't want to keep this delight to myself. If anyone 
> > wants to join in my fun, the board is at:
> >
> > <http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl>
> >
> > Share & Enjoy,
> 
> Must .. Control .. The .. Keyboard .. Of .. Fire 

Heh! Go easy on them. Most of them are just harmless idiots. There are
a couple who reckon themselves a bit tho' - and it's quite fun taking
them down a peg or two.

Dave...

Re: Not Matt's Scripts

[Dave Cross]

At Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:08:11 +0100 (BST), Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As far as my scripts go, they're going quite well, but two questions:
> 
> 1) Is POSIX.pm a standard module (and how do I work this out for
> myself) and supported on all O.S.es so I don't have to rewrite 
> strftime.

Yes it is. Best way to check is to see if it's in perlmodlib - but,
of course, that changes with each release :(

I've used strftime in many of my scripts.

> 2) How do I get strftime to produce th/st/nd for the date?  I can't 
> see it on man strftime, but I might just be going blind.

You can't.

Dave...

Helping Less... er... Able... Programmers

[Dave Cross]

I've developed this weird habit of hanging around places where less
able Perl programmers congregate and trying to distribute clues.

The latest place I've found is the BBS for readers of Liz Castro's
book. It certainly gives you some perspective[1] on her target
audience.

Here's an example response to a question (the question used 
for (;;;) loops:

=

Erm, My eyes keep darting to your FOR loops. For is mainly used in javascript, and 
perl doesnt handle them, mainly because of the semicolons used to split the 
operations. Instead of for, use foreach, because thats close to the perl equivalent of 
for. I'm not sure exactly what that would translate to into perl, but if you want to 
do something in a foreach loop, it would look like 

foreach $ArrayItemYouNeedToChange (@TheArray) { 
#do this 
} 

Remember, for loops are for JS, not perl. You cant use semicolons in perl, unless 
theyre before a carriage return. 

=

I particularly like the last bit about where it's legal to use
semicolons in Perl.

When the original poster pointed out that there were for loops in
Castro's book, he got the response:

=

Hrm. I Dont really know. Email xxx@xxx Thats VulKen's email. He's the only one on this 
board thats better than me, except Liz. 

=

A couple of days ago I suggested that the CGI::param function was
better than someone's homegrown CGI parser (radical notion, I know!)
and got this response:

=

Problem with the param() is securityusers can enter malicious things that'll cause 
havoc...which isnt very good at all really :) 

=

I've asked for further clarification, but none has been forthcoming.

Anyway, I didn't want to keep this delight to myself. If anyone wants
to join in my fun, the board is at:



Share & Enjoy,

Dave...

[1] "Yeah, too _much_ fuckin' perspective" - name that film.

Re: Buffycode (was Re: "That book")

[Dave Cross]

At Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:39:34 +0200, Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
> > The other possibility, I guess, given that it's london.pm is 
> > to make it relate to buffy in some way :)
> 
> That reminds me of an idea I had this morning on the way to work -- 
> encode text using "Buffy" with uppercase and lowercase letters: 
> uppercase letters stand for "0" bits and lowercase letters for "1" 
> bits. (Or, if you prefer, bit 5 / 2**5 / 32 of each character 
> represents the bit to be encoded.) Then you just have to chop the 
> message into 5-bit chunks (adding 0 bits at the end if needed to pad 
> to a 5-bit boundary) and translate.

I'm pretty sure I've seen something like this before. You encode text
using the word 'moo'. I think it used upper and lower case 'o' and also
a zero. I'm sure there was a web page somewhere that converted text
to and from 'moo's.

Or maybe I dreamt it.

Dave...

Re: white wine

[Dave Cross]

At 00:07 27/03/2001, you wrote:
>* Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >
> > Ooh good. I got one of them for Christmas and still haven't gotten 
> around to
> > drinking it. Not sure I'll like it though, because Italian reds tend to be
> > very thin, and I like chewy wines. We'll see.
> >
>
>I don't want to sound like a twat, but it may be too late already so here
>goes, one of the things i hate about going out to a italian restaurant
>is the wine.

Nonsense. You just order the most expensive Barolo on the wine list.

Dave...
[Who doesn't understand this fascination with white wine - nasty stuff]



-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Data Munging with Perl 

Re: originality

[Dave Cross]

At Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:41:05 +0100, Chris Heathcote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sunday morning Perl advocacy at Speaker's Corner

This _really_ should happen.

Dave...