Another Komodo
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-5729530.html Makes bizarre reading after AS's press releases. (I assume AOL's Komodo is some Mozilla repackaging? Anyone know anything about this?) Paul
Re: Another Komodo
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:44:45PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: (I assume AOL's Komodo is some Mozilla repackaging? Anyone know anything about this?) theregister.co.uk has been running stories about it being used as a possible alternative if AOL decides to stop bundling IE. No technical details though... Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Another Komodo
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:50:34AM +0100, Dean wrote: theregister.co.uk has been running stories about it being used as a possible alternative if AOL decides to stop bundling IE. No technical details though... http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=988225959 has a weensy bit at the last paragraph, saying it's basically a wrapper over Gecko (yay, usable Mozilla GUI, finally). Paul
RE: Komodo
--- Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its dependant apps, no? umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a production enviroment. my two cents It looks like a potentially good product for the windows environment, providing integration into a widely used IDE is probably a safe bet, however unless you have the very latest version of windoze 98, me etc, and the 'windows installed(TM)' installed and up to date, you can't install it. I gave up after ie5.5 decided i needed to pay for a service pack. Only time will tell. /My two cents David = Artificial Intelligence is no match for human stupitity! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: Komodo
Robin Szemeti wrote: in the *nix variant can you load stuff from CPAN straight in ? Lemme check... yep, you can. (Using the Solaris version of ActivePerl 618.) I used a non-XS module, but I believe I've done it with XS modules as well. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Komodo
Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 18/04/2001 at 16:36 +0100, Dean wrote: Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Yes, but they're not installed by default. (I can't remember if the 'BSD subsystem' is installed by default either though.) It comes on a seperate CD within the OS X shrinkwrap box- you also get OS 9 and OS X base install. You also get ProjectBuilder IDE. http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/ Which is very nice. Or at least it was, back when it was NeXTSTEP. -- Piers
Re: Komodo
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:02:03AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing everything in xemacs. Then you're missing half the fun. Seriously. M-x compile was the reason I started using emacs in the first place. And then there's M-X grep which also works in a simliar manner, jumping to hits from grep results... -Dom
Re: Komodo
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:56:51AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You also get ProjectBuilder IDE. http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/ Which is very nice. Or at least it was, back when it was NeXTSTEP. I had a little play with it last night, and it's still not bad. Only supports C/C++/Java though. I can't figger out how to get the Interface Builder to work with my project, so will have to read the docs. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:02:03AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
Then you're missing half the fun. Seriously. M-x compile was the
reason I started using emacs in the first place.
And I \N{WHITE HEART SUIT} M-x gdb
--
I respect faith, but doubt is what gives you an education.
-- Wilson Mizner
Re: Komodo
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:56:51AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You also get ProjectBuilder IDE. http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/ Which is very nice. Or at least it was, back when it was NeXTSTEP. I had a little play with it last night, and it's still not bad. Only supports C/C++/Java though. I can't figger out how to get the Interface Builder to work with my project, so will have to read the docs. Works with Objective C too. Which is still (for my money) the best way of messing with the NeXTSTEP object model. -- Piers
Re: Komodo
Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:02:03AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
Then you're missing half the fun. Seriously. M-x compile was the
reason I started using emacs in the first place.
And I \N{WHITE HEART SUIT} M-x gdb
Oh, yes, baby. And M-x ediff and friends are pretty good fun too.
Especially when you're playing with revision control stuff, makes
integration almost fun.
--
Piers
Re: Komodo
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:46:03PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Works with Objective C too. Which is still (for my money) the best way of messing with the NeXTSTEP object model. s/best/only/ Paul
RE: Komodo
I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its dependant apps, no? It its a full release then sure they should be a bit smarter.
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete You mean, "...if you choose to install an OS over the one we're actually supporting for those operations"? Besides 10.0.1 just arrived... P
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: actually supporting for those operations"? No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1. easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed to complete". Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. P
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. Probably Eric Raymond. Which reminds me, there used to be a comment in the code for an authentication server at Demon: /* fork early, fork often */ Which was very telling when we found it. -Dom
RE: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its dependant apps, no? umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a production enviroment. I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl installation... It its a full release then sure they should be a bit smarter. if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO FWIW, I agree. Not only that, if it conflicts with existing distribution's package management that'd be a nightmare. Paul
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a production environment. IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;) I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl installation... Let us know what they come back with. if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going back to xemacs to code ;)) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1. The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X. In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to complain about it being non-functional anywhere. That doesn't make sense to me. easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed to complete". Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the privelege. I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support, and I didn't complain (much). However, that it *still* lacks it is inexcusable. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:44:38AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X. One has to assume anyone installing an OS over a different is intelligent enough to read the caveats. In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to complain about it being non-functional anywhere. You're complaining about an ad being misleading (my possibly wrong reading). It's for an OS 9.1 system! Yeah, no burning is a bummer that's definitely true. When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the privelege. That's because you haven't yet written the World's Most Advanced OS :-) I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support, and I didn't complain (much). However, that it *still* lacks it is inexcusable. Oh, what, four weeks later? Jesus -- hard to please some people :-) Not like there are any apps for OS X either! P
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;) ahh yes ... :) I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going back to xemacs to code ;)) you can write code in emacs? ... I always thought it was just a news client ! ( or was it a graphics package .. I forget :) umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, (which uses gcc ... ) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
* at 18/04 11:58 +0100 Robin Szemeti said: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. i do love the sound of figures being plucked from thin air. struan
RE: Komodo
umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather than the Perl market... Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to Perl itself or the core libs I'd like to know if it...
RE: Komodo
On 18/04/2001 at 15:58 +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Apparently it's all changing with MacPerl 5.6.1 which is much closer to Perl 5.6.1, as p5p people may be noticing. OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. -- :: paul :: becoming the Mac OS 9 recidivist on yet another list
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? It's more because I have a nicely working perl installation right here, which sits happily in my system's package management system, and I'm not going to mess with it without a *really* good reason. I also refuse to let myself be led down a route which may restrict my ability to upgrade easily in the future. I just did 'sudo rpm -Uvh perl*.rpm' and went from 5.6.0 to 5.6.1, with not a single problem. I doubt it'll be that easy with Activestate and I don't want to find out the hard way that it isn't. They *must* work with any old perl distro (of the right version, of course) or even one that $user has compiled from sources, if they are to be taken seriously. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Windows is a better target market for things like this, the need is there but the competition is not. Activestate is in a position of power in the Windows world, they have the Windows Perl market pretty much wrapped up and by the time someone else really tries to get into the race they'll find its already over. I know that their are alternatives like the Indigo and Siemens distros but neither are really commercial. Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, ActiveState is a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;)) market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the merrier ;) you can write code in emacs? Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in it... ;) umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, (which uses gcc ... ) I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools. Yet. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
From: "Jonathan Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to Perl itself or the core libs I'd like to know if it... Unfortunately there is a difference between PPM and CPAN modules, which is why you need to check whether the module you require is in the ActiveState repository or the Package List. If you want anything extra curricular (e.g. Template Toolkit) you'll need nmake and hope it works under windows from CPAN. The good thing about PPM is that it does all the installation for you. the bad thing is that it doesn't run any tests. Then again seeing as they've done the job of porting the package you'd hope it was tested at their end. At least that's what _I'm_ hoping. Barbie.
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:26:42PM +0100, Dean wrote: I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Emacs *is* an IDE. It just doesn't look like all the other ones. -Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?)
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather than the Perl market... Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time you can get CPAN working on it. ActiveState also comes with some other stuff like the ability to use perl in place of ASP and stuff like pl2bat. You can compile and use your own perl just like you could on a Linux box but it just takes a bit more effort and as the NMS project is showing making things easy is a good thing. (Right watch Cantrell butcher me ;)) I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to Perl itself Ahh yes, through the ActiveState way you can control clippit ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Whats MPW? OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Dean (Clueless when it comes to macs.) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
Dean wrote: I've been using [Kdevelop] for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Ultraedit does this. It's great and I love it. And it works under Wine.
Win32 perl (was: Komodo)
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time you can get CPAN working on it. You don't even need to pander to the evil empire. dmake will work in place of nmake, and mingw32 (ie. egcs) works fine for building perl and modules. Last time I did this was a couple of years ago, and it took a _long_ time to compile perl itself. Maybe they've made it faster now. .robin. -- A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama! --Guy Jacobson
Re: Komodo
On 18/04/2001 at 16:36 +0100, Dean wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Whats MPW? Macintosh Programmer's Workshop: in the full version, includes a shell (yes, on a Mac OS before X!), C and C++ compiler, and various other shellish things. It's free too. (Free as in beer, anyway.) http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/ OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Yes, but they're not installed by default. (I can't remember if the 'BSD subsystem' is installed by default either though.) It comes on a seperate CD within the OS X shrinkwrap box- you also get OS 9 and OS X base install. You also get ProjectBuilder IDE. http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/ -- :: paul :: fairly clueless with Windows these days
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:36:08PM +0100, Dean wrote: Whats MPW? Macintosh Programmers' Workshop. Delicious... Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Yes (on the optional developers CD) .robin. -- Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing everything in xemacs. Emacs *is* an IDE. It just doesn't look like all the other ones. I was going to argue about the foot print but i use Visual Studio on occasion ;) -Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?) Nah. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Dean wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing everything in xemacs. There's a nice big "compile" button on the toolbar. When the errors come up, just hit your middle button on them in the *compile* buffer. Couldn't be easier. -Dom
Re: Komodo
Barbie wrote: The good thing about PPM is that it does all the installation for you. the bad thing is that it doesn't run any tests. Then again seeing as they've done the job of porting the package you'd hope it was tested at their end. At least that's what _I'm_ hoping. Yes. The PPM used to be really meagre with builds 5xx (5.005_**) but with 6xx (5.6.*) the situation has improved. I believe they have some kind of semi-automated way of making PPMs from CPAN modules. They have stated that they'll only PPM modules (or versions of modules) that pass their own tests on Windows. I believe the PPM version of Compress::Zlib or Archive::Tar or some such was lagging behind the CPAN release by a couple of versions because the newer versions didn't pass their own tests. So if it's PPMable, it's supposedly been tested by ActiveState (perhaps not by a person, but at least automatically). Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, your logic is hopelessly flawed. 25% of the windows market is not what you need as the 'windows market' consists mainly of secrataries and home users .. 75% of a Linux market (~100% of which use Perl in some way) is MUCH bigger than 25% of a windows market (0.001% of which would know a programming langauge if it ran up to them in the street and bit them) I'd say the programming market is roughly 50% windows/something else, so whilst windows might have a large user following, its got a relativley small developer following and thats who you need to play to. ActiveState is a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;)) market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the merrier ;) here I agree totally .. if it gets windows point and click programmers using perl it gets my 100% support. if it tries to make me use some weirdo Perl build on linux that is not compatible with various other things then it can go boil its head. you can write code in emacs? Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in it... ;) stop winding me up .. everyone knows emacs is a firewall configuration tool with some other bits bolted on ... dont you just press C-x C-alt-b C-shift-alt-z alt-y pageup-alt-escape-shift-~ to make it insert a space or somesuch? umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, (which uses gcc ... ) I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools. Yet. I think you'll find that where a tool has a decent UI and helps rather than hinders it will become accepted. if its more trouble than NOT having it then, strangely, it will bomb out like a thing that bombs out a lot. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. That's irrelevant. ActiveState's business is 90% Windows, so they do Windows first. -- ZenHam heh, yeah, but Aretha could be reading out /etc/services and kick just so much ass :)
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. That's irrelevant. ActiveState's business is 90% Windows, so they do Windows first. which is why I said somewhere .. something like ' if it requires activestate perl then thats fine for windows, but its dead in the water for linux' I appreciate what AS do for windows, if what htey do gets windows developers using perl then they have my 100% support. I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl install. simple as that. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl install. simple as that. Then don't buy one. Those who do, will. Isn't the free market great? -- Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother. - Kahlil Gibran
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl install. simple as that. Then don't buy one. Those who do, will. Isn't the free market great? but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different incompatible versions a Bad Thing and will make smelly noises about it and blow raspberries whenever I see it :) [1] well alright theres 4 (no .. really that is still in use in places ) and 5.005 and 5.6.x and macperl .. but apart from that -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:34:30PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different incompatible AS Perl on Unix isn't incompatible. -- dngor Every little bit of seaweed kelps.
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:34:30PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different incompatible AS Perl on Unix isn't incompatible. can't honestly say that I've tried it .. you have the better of me there. My only experience with AS Perl is under windows and it was not that great. It was shed loads better than no Perl at all though, so thanks to em for that. in the *nix variant can you load stuff from CPAN straight in ? my understanding was that you had to wait for some strange process to occur and a .ppm file to appear or you couldn't load the stuff up. .. but I could be worng. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Komodo
I just downloaded and had a play with the release version 1.0 of Komodo for Windows (The Linux one is still in the RC phase) and i have to say that I'm impressed. I know that a lot of the list are devoted to using text editors rather than these 'new fangled' IDE's :) but i reckon this is worth a play with for three main reasons: 1) The RX toolkit 2) Code folding 3) Reference Contents The RX toolkit is a nice little box you can paste a regex into and underneath you paste a string. It then shows what matches what and the contents of the capturing parameters. The code folding is something i was looking for a while ago and while the beta of vim 6.0 has some support for folding subroutines (But it loses state a lot...) Komodo lets you fold pretty much anything from subroutines to if statements. The last bit is something that i like as i can see it saving me adding and removing Data::Dumper statements while debugging, I've only been playing with this this afternoon but it seems to work as I'd expect and its nice to have it handy without adding statements. As a last point it even makes an attempt to guess at the keyword you were typing when you hit ctrl-space. And it gets it right quiet often. I know that you can do the three things i mentioned above with other techniques but this puts them closer with less hoop jumping to use them on a day to day basis. Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? The Linux version is broken; it won't install, claiming you need a new license. brev lathos: I just talked to the Komodo lead. He suggests a) don't evaluate Komodo on the Linux version, yet. b) we changed licnese schemes recently. If absolutely necessary we can send you a new license. -- BEWARE! People acting under the influence of human nature.
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 06:23:28PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? The Linux version is broken; it won't install, claiming you need a new license. Gah! I just downloaded this and tried to install, at least i know it wasn't me now ;) Komodo on the Linux version, yet. b) we changed licnese schemes recently. If absolutely necessary we can send you a new license. I'm semi patient :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: I just downloaded and had a play with the release version 1.0 of Komodo for Windows (The Linux one is still in the RC phase) and i have to say that I'm impressed. Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? I haven't looked at it, but will. However, it does look from the web pages as if it requires me to download Activestate's distribution of perl. This is a Bad Thing. If it turns out that I can use my existing 5.6, then I'll give it a go, but if I have to fuck around, I won't bother. Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world, and need to learn about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. -- The sky already fell. Now what? -- Steven Wright
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:17:37PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? I haven't looked at it, but will. However, it does look from the web pages as if it requires me to download Activestate's distribution of perl. This is a Bad Thing. If it turns out that I can use my existing 5.6, then I'll give it a go, but if I have to fuck around, I won't bother. Didn't notice that and since it won't install without a license i won't be evaling it yet and can't confirm if it screws over existing installs. Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world, and need to learn about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Someone needs to be in the Windows world and I'd rather them worry about it than me ;) Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete I like this sig. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
