Hi Anthony,
I think you are mistaking me for the person who was breaking his gut
strings. I use New Nylgut most of the time. It works just fine with
nylon frets.
Bill
From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: lute
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2012, 1:13
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Tempered fretting - take your pick
Is there a link that goes with this message?
On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:50 PM, William Samson wrote:
Here's a lovely performance by Hesperion XXI. I was amused
Nothing as sophisticated as tastini - just matchsticks wedged under the
frets (at the bass side of the neck) to tighten them. Don't we all do
it?
Bill
From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute
Here's a lovely performance by Hesperion XXI. I was amused to see the
extremes of fret placement on the viols - some pretty much equal
temperament and others (the lirone for example) with very UN-equal
temperament.
Still sounds wonderful, and it would seem that the players are all
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CAkXyqPyXAfeature=share
It says in the commentary below that English Subtitles are 'active'.
Anybody know how to actually see them?
Anyway, with my few words of Italian I was able to figure out what was
going on most of the way through.
Bill
Unless you want to be continually replacing your first string, you
should either drop to a lower pitch standard (even a semitone will
increase the lifespan quite significantly) or if that isn't an option
(horror of horrors) use a synthetic (e.g. nylgut) string for your
first.
Interesting topic.
This is maybe a bit facile, but I believe that the sound produced has a
lot more to do with the musician than it does with the particular
instrument or string material. OK an authentic gut-strung violin will
no doubt feel better to somebody who wants to produce
I've had success using waxed polyester whipping twine as leaders,
simply tied with a 'sheet bend' to the string. Polyester has
practically no stretch in it, so it works well. You can get this twine
from any yacht chandlery or from ebay.
As Howard suggests, it's best to try the
It strikes me that these problems are the result of having long
pegboxes and stretchy strings. In my experience of using it, gut has
much less stretch than nylgut (or nylon for that matter) or the
overspun basses that we use nowadays - so this probably wasn't nearly
as much of a
Thank you Arto!
Some very nice notes inegales without overdoing it.
All the best,
Bill
From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, 25 December 2011, 18:43
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Some D. Gaultier...
Dear baroque lutenists,
lots
Here's a great new arrangement:
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHF4lTF5Zhsfeature=player_embedded
From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2011, 9:12
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Xmas tunes
Christmas Book/CD
The sleeve says the lute used is a Van der
Waals from 1973 and I am amazed at how great it sounds--almost too
good
for a 1973 lute.
The lute doesn't matter nearly as much as the player. Having said
that, Nico van der Waals was a very fine maker and many of the best
Bravo! Congratulations to all involved in this wonderful project.
Bill
From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2011, 2:18
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: RT on Dutch Radio!!!
For those who missed the
I have a 7c lute after Venere, complete with fingerboard stings and
stings at the ends of the bridge. I'm nowadays finding the neck too
narrow for me and am considering changing it to 6 courses by replacing
the nut and re-drilling the bridge and possibly shortening the head to
I'm afraid I'm going to mention the dreaded 'e' word again: what
evidence have you that the male alto ('countertenor') voice was used
historically to perform lute songs?
Aw come on Martyn! You'll be telling us next that lute players didn't
wear jester outfits or sing 'Hey
Hi Anthony,
Interesting that you should mention the NSD Powerball. For UK readers
info, I was shopping in Sainsbury's yesterday and they had Powerball
copies at -L-5 among their 'scientific toys'. If I remember right,
there was a three-for-the-price-of-two or similar offer so they
Hi,
I'm wondering if anybody has done a survey of string spacing on extant
lutes? The few examples I have seen show considerable variation - for
example the 7-c Venere with 59 cm string length shows exceptionally
close spacing (if memory serves it's arond 35mm across the first six
- Mail original -
De : Martyn Hodgson [1][4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
A : William Samson [2][5]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk;
[3][6]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
[4][7]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
Anthony Hind [5][8]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
Cc :
Envoye le : Mardi 29
For most players, pitch was a given. If you lived in London in 1720
and the local pitch was A=410, you tuned your lute to A=410 or you
couldn't play with other instrumentalists else, which would make you
useless as a musician.
Not necessarily that straightforward - Suppose you had
Or a quick and dirty account here:
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#Pre-19th_century
Bill
From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
To: Baroque Lute List (E-mail) baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011, 19:41
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re:
baroque lutes of the type that we mostly use to
play solos.
Bill
From: Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011, 18:27
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392
What about John Wilson's music in manuscript
As far as I can see the only show-stopper for a lute tuned to 392Hz is
ensemble work, when the other musicians are tuned to a higher pitch
standard - usually 415Hz. That's where a 66cm baroque lute would be
useful. Having said that, not many lutes that small have survived. Of
My 70.5 Burkholzer is perfectly content at 392, and so am I.
Rob
As is my 69 cm Anon 11c.
It's worth remembering the huge range of pitch standards that were used
back in the day - It's hard to be 'wrong' in that sense. As Edward
says, the pitch you choose depends mostly on the
While English strings are being discussed, I haven't heard anybody
mention the strings produced by Northern Renaissance Instruments.
Anyway for information here is a link to their lute strings info:
[1]http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/LuSt.html
Bill
From: Anthony Hind
Hi Ned,
Yes - End pins are good.
Normally a lute bowl is built with an end cap on the outside - so the
end cap plus rib behind it is probably the best part of 3mm thick. In
addition, though, there usually a similar piece of wood glued INSIDE
the ribs, so assuming that's of the
Dear Collective Wisdom,
Up until now I've mostly used nylon for my lute strings and it seems to
be the case that nylon can't be used below the third course because
fretted notes will not be true due to the material being too stiff.
I have successfully used ordinary gut for a 4th
Hi,
I've noticed a couple of times recently that I've replied to a message
on the list addressed to the sender of the message and to the list
itself (using 'reply all'), and the message hasn't appeared on the
list. Yet, when I consult the archives there it is.
I should point out
Wolfgang - You are a genius! That is indeed where they are. Phew! I
was getting paranoid there.
Thanks!
Bill
From: Wolfgang Wiehe wie-w...@gmx.de
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011, 9:39
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Lost messages
hi
Hi Monica,
A couple of things you might check (though you may well have done so
already) - Loose string ends at the peghead or the bridge - these
could shift around with humidity changes. Don't want to worry you, but
I had some intractible buzzing on one of my lutes that
an assumption that as these seem to
have ended up as the most successful configurations at the time,
there's no need to explore anything else.
Bill
PS Oh yes - and octave stringing works out cheaper too :o)
From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net
To: William Samson willsam
, or
Milano on a unison strung 6c lute.
Bill
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 18:31
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes?
Thanks
That's great! Are these both octave strung instruments on your Duo
Chambure Youtubes? The sound is gorgeous!
Bill
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011
14 pegs and my 10c has 20 pegs, which means I can change it to
an 11c with a single second any time I want (with a differen nut and an
extra hole in the bridge).
Bill
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk; Edward Martin
e
- Forwarded Message -
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Garry Warber garrywar...@hughes.net
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 8:12
Subject: Re: [LUTE] gut string, etc.
Is hide glue now also banned in the EU?
SHHH I hope none of these Eurocrats
. :-) You are right, loose lips sink ships, more
or less. Of course, there is that prions not being harmed by cooking
thing. But as far as I know, only one guy here thinks hide glue is
lip-smacking good! :-)+LOL...
Garry
-Original Message- From: William Samson
Sent
Hi Arto,
If you'll settle for 7-course, here's a link to a Caravaggio Cupid with
a 7-course lute with 14 pegs:
[1]http://www.ownapainting.com/images/Caravaggio-Cupid.jpg
Bill
From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011,
And another (6c this time!) from Caravaggio
[1]http://www.hermitageshop.org/store/images/large/0003150A4_3_LRG.jpg
Bill
From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 16:10
Subject: [LUTE] Double 1st string on 6 course lutes?
referred to as a boy. Is that correct? I've always
fancied her as female... :-)
Garry
-Original Message- From: William Samson
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:23 PM
To: wikla ; [1]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes
Could it be that it was an Italian thing? I seem to remember hearing
that many years ago but can't quote a source. Maybe something by Eph
Segerman in FoMRHIQ?
Bill
From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 20:51
Subject:
: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes?
My favorite painting of all time... To my surprise, I've heard the
lute player referred to as a boy. Is that correct? I've always
fancied her as female... :-)
Garry
-Original Message- From: William Samson
Sent: Saturday
Again - I've forgotten the source (probably Eph Segerman), but I seem
to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were usually strung in
unisons. I do know that Eph had a 7c lute made like this and strung
with catlines (his own manufacture - Northern Renaissance Instruments)
So - I wonder how many people have actually contracted mad cow disease,
scrapie, CJD or other related problems? Of them, I wonder how many
caught it from the production processes for musical strings? That's my
first question. My second question is how many people have died on our
HAHA!!! - if not oiled or perhaps varnished . . .
From: A.J. Padilla MD gla...@optonline.net
To: 'Taco Walstra' wals...@science.uva.nl; 'R. Mattes'
r...@mh-freiburg.de
Cc: 'lute list' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011, 12:27
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Gut
I can't see ANY music-loving nation putting up with this pompous
stupidity (No - I checked - It's not April 1st). Haven't they got
better things to do when the world, and particularly Europe is going
down the tubes? Makes the rearranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic
seem a
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I think the instrument described in Britannica is what we would call a
12-course 'English' lute - the kind that appears in lots of paintings, usually
played by
Yours are great too, Rob. I like Edward Weston's views on a good
photograph, which I think is particularly apposite for both yours and
Arto's:
not searching for unusual subject matter, but making the commonplace
unusual
I don't know if you plan to visit Dundee in the near
Ah! The gift of brevity! Wasn't it Pascal who wrote Sorry this letter
is so long - I didn't have time to make it shorter.
Bill
From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com
To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011,
So GBS was either independently original, or shamelessly nicked
Pascal's quote. Here are two versions from the web:
I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to
make it short.
Blaise Pascal
The present letter is a very long one, simply because I had no
It certainly works for me :o)
Bill
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011, 21:00
Subject: [LUTE] 3 tiny Bartok pieces - legato issues!
These three tiny pieces come from the first volume of Bartok's
Very nice sound indeed! Congratulations to the lutenist and the
luthier.
Bill
From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 28 October 2011, 18:00
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] I got another 11-courser
Dear b-lutenists,
Today I got a new
Lots of places in Europe - Florence in particular is outstanding, as is
Venice, but many ancient cities have their old part, such as
Edinburgh's High Street and the area around it.
Bill
From: Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, 26
What a wonderfully teasing performance! You'll have your audience
eating out of your hand.
Bill
From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
To: baroque lute list baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011, 12:44
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Hagen Dm Sonata vids
I suspect there's no way of blacklisting the sender without
blacklisting Ned too. List administrators have been trying for years
to overcome this sort of hijacking, but the spammers are always one (or
two) steps ahead.
One thing you should try, Ned, is changing your password (if
Beautiful playing, and very interesting music too! I'm sure Ms Bocquet
would have approved.
Thank you for sharing this.
Bill
From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
To: baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011, 12:53
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bocquet
You know, I wonder about the use of synthetic strings vs gut.
Certainly a player can feel the difference in his/her fingers, but I'm
not convinced that the listener can identify the string material by
hearing a performance. The same (IMHO) goes for lots of things that
are thought
It's probably not the 'done thing' on this forum, but LOL anyway!
Bill
From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011, 17:18
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bocquet vids
Interesting experiment!
However
I will doubtless experiment with strings over the coming year. I love
the creaky-ness of the gut strings, but I am having intonation problems
which can be really annoying. Damian Dlugolecki sent me some gut
basses to try out, and I am interested in Dan's gimped strings too.
But it
I think one problem will be getting a chanterelle that won't break with
a 63cm scale and tuned to g at a440. Gut probably wouldn't last very
long, but synthetics would be OK. I support the advice you've been
given about making sure the tension isn't too much. If I remember
I have heard that 'luth o cembal' was perhaps a keyboard instrument
that sounded like a lute - I've even heard it suggested that it was a
harpsichord strung in gut, but I very much doubt the feasibility of
such an instrument - It would be a nightmare to keep in tune, as we
lutenists
Does anyone know of any source of Guillaume Morlaye's and Adrien le
Roy's pieces for 4-course guitar? The printed versions all seem to be
out of print.
Bill
From: Luca Manassero l...@manassero.net
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, 9 October 2011, 19:07
Subject:
Having come from renaissance lute with all its thumb/forefinger action
on the treble strings, I'm finding that having my thumb on, say, the
third course is making life difficult when it has to leap down to the
tenth course, for example.
I would think the answer is to do more with
Hi Rob,
I have no knowledge of the source of this suite. Do you know if it is
in Weiss's own hand?
I'm opening myself up to brickbats here, but it is usual for classical
guitarists to make slight alterations to the pieces they play, to suit
their own physical characteristics and
Hi Martyn,
I believe I've found David's stuff on string spacings in the archive:
[1]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html
Best regards,
Bill
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Rob MacKillop
(or not) with hard evidence.
Incidentally, Diana Poulton had small hands, and she always played with
her little finger on the bridge.
Bill
From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; BAROQUE-LUTE
Hi Julien,
I should start by saying this is just hearsay and speculation. The
times of transitional tuning seem to have been quite chaotic and
although almost all of Vieux Gaultier's output was set down many years
after his death in Dm tuning, it would be surprising if he was
Hi,
What's the current thinking on string tensions for lutes? Presumably
it depends to some extent on the particular lute. Figures I've heard
range from 2kg to 3.5 kg per string which is quite a big range. Any
views?
Thanks,
Bill
--
To get on or off this list see
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Hi David,
I just dug out these translations I did back in 1980 for the Lute Society
Newsletter. I hope the attachments work OK. I should point out that my
knowledge of
Hi again,
Here's a translation of Nicholas Vallet's instructions from 1618. The
remarks about 'thumb inside' are amusing!
Bill
[1]http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319298_1504144020063_
1728144395_730763_5570481_n.jpg
- Forwarded Message -
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: David R d_lu...@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, 2 September 2011, 7:56
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Hammering on and snapping off
Hi,
I'vev been doing a little checking up on Tombeau de Mezangeau
I'm curious to know when the playing of notes with left hand only first
appeared. Clearly it was used whenever there were graces to be played,
but what about written-out phrases? I have noticed there are slur-like
indications in later baroque lute music under phrases that lend
wonder if this might really be an ornament (from below) written out to
show exactly what the composer intended?
Best regards,
Bill
From: Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com
To: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com
Cc: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk;
baroque-lute
in a
similar situation in bar 3.
Mathias
Best regards,
Bill
From: Benjamin Narvey [1]luthi...@gmail.com
To: Rob MacKillop [2]robmackil...@gmail.com
Cc: William Samson [3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk;
[4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
[5]baroque-lute
Love it! Your ironic views lighten up my day! If I might remark,
though, you forgot the anthrax spores and the bovine spongiform
encephalitis this time. Excellent point about needing a 'hot room' for
gluing, so the stuff doesn't gel before you get the joint together.
Similarly,
I wonder how many of today's lutenists are using double gut frets? It
would seem that until the time of Thomas Mace (who I think was the
first to mention the use of single frets), and maybe for some time
after that double frets were the norm. Players who have used them will
I know that some top lute makers (and by 'top' I really do mean names
that cause avaricious salivation when they are uttered in the company
of lutenists) use a number of different glues for different joints in
an instrument - notably aliphatic resin (Titebond), but also hide glue
longer . . .
Bill
PS This knot also works very well with nylon frets (for the
philistines among us . . . ;o)
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2011, 15
I agree that gut strings are very pleasant to play on, but the biggest
contribution to the sound of the instrument comes from the musician. A
great lutenist can draw a much better quality of sound from a poor lute
with nylon strings than a poor lutenist can from a very fine lute
Oh dear - Getting a little bit heated and political. Remember you are
lutenists - You should be above all this and setting a good example.
My teacher, the late, great Diana Poulton wrote of the lute:
The grace of its appearance, the quiet beauty of its
sound and the intellectual
From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
To: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com; howard posner
howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; William
Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2011, 2:37
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute string
Tune up, that's what some of us would do, probably, as our nylgut or
nylon
string will suffer it without breaking. If you go by the old rule, to
tune
your 1st course first as high as it will suffer, and then the rest,
you will
tune your lute down (i. e. the 2nd to 11th
Is there any evidence that capos were ever used with lutes?
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
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There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor
tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere
called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major.
Bill
From: mathias.roe...@t-online.de mathias.roe...@t-online.de
To: Baroque
Interesting topic.
Talking of small hands and stretches, I had lessons from Diana Poulton
in the late 60s and early 70s. She had small hands, but when
she fanned out her left hand fingers, her forefinger and little finger
were 180 degrees apart - in other words they lay on the
mean 90 degrees? I
would advise caution about using any exercises to increase it,
anyway.
M
On 18/08/2011 08:08, William Samson wrote:
Interesting topic.
Talking of small hands and stretches, I had lessons from Diana
Poulton
in the late 60s and early 70s. She had
more entertaining than facts.
From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2011, 18:10
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute string length
On Aug 18, 2011, at 2:47 AM, William Samson wrote:
We all know what happened
@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2011, 18:58
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute string length
On Aug 18, 2011, at 10:52 AM, William Samson wrote:
Incidentally I think I prefer the myth and it's much more memorable
than the truth.
Really? Would you still think so if I
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