Re: [Marxism] Hochschild on Lumumba

2011-01-18 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I'll be darned; and I thought he was just some kid from Brooklyn. On Mon, Jan 17,

Re: [Marxism] Hochschild on Lumumba

2011-01-17 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Hochschild wrote an excellent book, King Leopold's Ghost, about the history of

Re: [Marxism] Hochschild on Lumumba

2011-01-17 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Not likely, Hochschild is from NYC and was an editor of Ramparts and then Mother

Re: [Marxism] The Tucson witch-hunt

2011-01-15 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah but, witch-hunt? against whom, the likes of Sarah Palin? maybe I'm missing

Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood: Against Civility

2011-01-15 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == for a take on left-wing incivility 24/7 in the tabloid tradition, one invariably

Re: [Marxism] Why Loughner shot Giffords

2011-01-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Why is that ridiculous and what basis is there for concluding he and others who

Re: [Marxism] Why Loughner shot Giffords

2011-01-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == gee, I thought that's was what I was saying? although now that I think about it,

Re: [Marxism] Why Loughner shot Giffords

2011-01-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == for what it's worth, I was disagreeing with Mailer, not echoing him, a point I made

Re: [Marxism] Why Loughner shot Giffords

2011-01-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I thought I saw him in a mirror years ago babbling incoherent garbage about

Re: [Marxism] Loughner's last close friend said that he ignored TV and talk radio

2011-01-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == uh-huh, and we were different from them in what ways at age 20 back in circa 68-73

Re: [Marxism] Non-existent lawyer jobs

2011-01-11 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == according to 2004 statistics from the US Department of Labor, the median income for

Re: [Marxism] Non-existent lawyer jobs

2011-01-09 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah my debt from graduating twelve years ago was only 90k which has ballooned up

Re: [Marxism] Non-existent lawyer jobs

2011-01-09 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == A former Los Angeles deputy city attorney has been charged with assaulting police

Re: [Marxism] Critical support to the Winklevosses?

2011-01-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I know and and they're sooo GQ. I mean did you see that photo of them rowing that

Re: [Marxism] True Grit follow-up

2010-12-30 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == An excellent example of this lingo is the HBO series Deadwood in which the

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

2010-12-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == that's fine, although I can't recall detecting any controversy here on this

[Marxism] Gays Face Increased Persecution in Africa

2010-12-11 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==

Re: [Marxism] All Quiet on the Western Front - Once Not so Quiet

2010-12-06 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Excellent contribution, Dennis. For a contemporaneous American look at the The

[Marxism] Watchmen?

2010-12-06 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I stumbled onto this on HBO last night, a movie adaptation of a graphic novel,

Re: [Marxism] Near North Korea

2010-12-04 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Based on running this guy's email on Google, it turns out he is a foreign business

[Marxism] Newsflash: NY inmates short on cash for bail

2010-12-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Now, what else is new? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/nyregion/03bail.html?hp

Re: [Marxism] Kentucky governor rebuilds Noah's Ark (no kidding!)

2010-12-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah but, hey, Fred Flintstone had a dinosaur doubling as a crane at work in his

Re: [Marxism] Kentucky governor rebuilds Noah's Ark (no kidding!)

2010-12-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Speaking of which, here's a link that brings to mind folks who saw a documentary

Re: [Marxism] Support /any/ struggle of the oppressed: a question which I feel is scathing.

2010-12-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == certainly not, anymore than we would support racist attacks on undocumented Mexican

Re: [Marxism] Assange's lawyer demolishes 'rape' charges

2010-12-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == No, isn't their accusation that they asked him to stop and he didn't, which if

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-02 Thread Tom Cod
of the Serbs. - Original Message - From: Tom Cod tomc...@gmail.com To: sartes...@earthlink.net Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/tomcod3

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well, if this were some obscure issue of philosophy that would be well taken, but

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == C'mon, evidence that Eritrean nationalists or the Bosnians are akin to the racist

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Then again, we had the Chetnik Great Serbian chauvinist collaborators of the Axis

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I've bookmarked some of these for further analysis, but I have to say that any

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == here's a link to Voline, who wrote the intro to Arshinov's book, and who himself

Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left

2010-12-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == How so? On 12/1/10 10:31 PM, Tom Cod wrote: I've bookmarked some

Re: [Marxism] Religious ramblings

2010-11-15 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == keep this in mind, horror stories about the Carthaginians, like those about the

Re: [Marxism] Stephanie Coontz on Mad Men in Wash Post

2010-11-14 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == ists and ites sectarian faction fights ites and ists backstabbin' sacks of shits

Re: [Marxism] Malcolm X and American Trotskyism

2010-11-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yes but American Trotskyists weren't the only folks to uphold Malcolm during that

[Marxism] Stephanie Coontz on Mad Men in Wash Post.

2010-11-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Stephanie Coontz is a professor at Evergreen State College in Olympia. During the

[Marxism] FBI Wants Congress to Force Telecom Wiretaps

2010-10-18 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us/19wiretap.html?hp

Re: [Marxism] American-style

2010-10-18 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Hey, I'd be careful with that, remember Prop 13? raise real estate taxes on whom?

Re: [Marxism] Stieg Larsson's Trotskyist past

2010-10-17 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == that's interesting. I was giving an inmate client, who has spent most of his life

Re: [Marxism] Bono Endorses Scrapping the Minimum Wage

2010-10-07 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == so that's why I saw him on TV with Pat Robertson about a year ago on some

Re: [Marxism] Forwarded from Renato

2010-10-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I didn't know that the regimes of Hitler and Mussolini were so wholesome,

Re: [Marxism] Forwarded from Renato

2010-10-02 Thread Tom Cod
. == === ___ Em 02/10/2010 15:59, Tom Cod tomc...@gmail.com escreveu: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message

[Marxism] Cal Executions Set to Resume

2010-09-24 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/24/BAJO1FJB1P.DTLtsp=1

Re: [Marxism] Thanks

2010-09-23 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well, it's good to hear from you and I'm glad this rent issue you're exploring

Re: [Marxism] Thanks

2010-09-23 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Bay Area tenant resources: http://www.evictiondefense.org/

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

2010-09-21 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah I know, people have been suspended or kicked outta here for way less than his

Re: [Marxism] Autumn of the Driveler

2010-09-19 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I'm not sure what you mean by that Shane. I remember bringing something like that

Re: [Marxism] Line of March

2010-09-15 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == My work with LOM was in Seattle where they did an excellent job around CISPES,

Re: [Marxism] Irwin Silber remembrances

2010-09-14 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I agree with Ethan based on my observations of Silber and his colleagues over a

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Maoism, Trotskyism and Conservatism (was Re: Irwin S

2010-09-11 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == right, and how many revolutions have trotskyists led? zero. it's always easy for

Re: [Marxism] Irwin Silber died

2010-09-10 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == oh fooey! The Guardian was a great paper for much of its life that reflected and

[Marxism] Red Sonoma

2010-09-10 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == article about display in Santa Rosa about local history of socialist and radical

[Marxism] Su Casa Es Mi Casa

2010-09-04 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == David J. Stern, one of the country's leading foreclosure lawyers who operates a

Re: [Marxism] Hi

2010-09-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == My deepest condolences. Send list

[Marxism] WikiLeaks Founder Accused of Rape in Sweden, Calls it Dirty Trick

2010-08-21 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Julian Assange facing rape charges in Sweden originally published in tabloid there:

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-20 Thread Tom Cod
a straw man argument as well as I couldn't give a fuck about marxism or the sectarian left which has never done shit to advance the struggle for social justice which was the whole point I was making. On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Carrol Cox cb...@ilstu.edu wrote: Tom Cod wrote: the point I

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-20 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Over 50 jury trials in the last eight years representing indigent criminal

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-14 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == don't you get a kick out of it when marxist theoreticians debate obscure points of

[Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-14 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In visiting the Middle East in 1980 we went to an early Christian church in Syria

Re: [Marxism] Churchill's Empire

2010-08-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Right, and he was the guy most responsible for the disaster at Gallipoli in 1916

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Don Draper is the central character in Mad Men (played by Jon Hamm) when I was of

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == How about this one from Bakunin's God and the State: If God actually existed, it

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == just curious, you claim to be a marxist? On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:52 PM, C. G.

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == evidence that God exists or existed as creator or otherwise? On Fri, Aug 13, 2010

[Marxism] India Faces Intifada Like Revolt in Kashmir

2010-08-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?hp

Re: [Marxism] self-indulgence

2010-08-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Brings to mind a comment Barry Sheppard made at a SWP convention circa 1971

[Marxism] Canadian Navy Boards Tamil Refugee Ship

2010-08-12 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/08/13/world/AP-CN-Canada-Migrant-Ship.html?hp

[Marxism] CA set to spend millions on new death row

2010-08-11 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == not enough money to pay state workers but enough for a new death row:

Re: [Marxism] Smyrna and Salonica

2010-08-08 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == As to the destruction of Smyrna, this was the denouement of an epilogue to the

Re: [Marxism] Smyrna and Salonica

2010-08-08 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == problems with that link, here's a related one to the Turkish War of Independence:

Re: [Marxism] The Banality of Anti-Israel Lobby Doctrine

2010-08-03 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah, I just contacted him on Facebook and gave him a heads up about what you guys

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
to a message. == On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Tom Cod wrote: ...like I was saying that was a good thing. Obviously not...revolution and civil war are not perfect and...many unsavory things occur... Oh. You were talking

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah well, Michael Moore was on Larry King last night talking about how the lesson

Re: [Marxism] No country for old men (was: anticommunist lie)

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I just saw that movie on a plane. I thought it was an old 70s thing I hadn't seen,

Re: [Marxism] ENOUGH, PLEASE! [was Stalinism and Bakuninism]

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == indeed, let's talk about the struggle for rights of undocumented workers and the

Re: [Marxism] Correction on Anarcho

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == my apologies. the first article had the notation Anarcho on it, perhaps it's some

Re: [Marxism] Lord of the Flies

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Right, and my personal experiences with Alaskan Natives, some of whom lived in what

Re: [Marxism] Lord of the Flies

2010-08-02 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == then of course there's the whole sanctimonious imperialist propaganda going back to

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism

2010-08-01 Thread Tom Cod
to naivete. On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Lüko Willms lueko.wil...@t-online.dewrote: Tom Cod (tomc...@gmail.com) wrote on 2010-08-01 at 10:54:50 in about Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism (was: Earliest use of word Stalinism?): Trotsky deals with dead on in Their Morals and Ours

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism

2010-08-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks, one other thing before I have to split: as to Bakuninism, Joe Hill, Sacco

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism

2010-08-01 Thread Tom Cod
. == Tom Cod (tomc...@gmail.com) wrote on 2010-08-01 at 13:50:20 in about Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism: Thanks, one other thing before I have to split: as to Bakuninism, Joe Hill, Sacco Vanzetti and Emma Goldman and numerous

Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Bakuninism

2010-08-01 Thread Tom Cod
that is going to occur during the heat of those passions. On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com wrote: On Aug 1, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Tom Cod wrote: ...sanctimoniously recycling right wing horror stories about the mistreatment of suspected informers. What was tarring

[Marxism] Legacy of Bakunin and the IWW

2010-08-01 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == below are links to two works by Mark Leier, a professor of labor history in British

Re: [Marxism] Earliest use of word Stalinism?

2010-07-31 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == that's ridiculous, the father of modern anarchism, who suffered for years in the

Re: [Marxism] Earliest use of word Stalinism?

2010-07-31 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It was ultimately about that it terms of that being it outcome, but in the first

Re: [Marxism] Earliest use of word Stalinism?

2010-07-31 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It seems to me though that this is a widely held caricature of the Jacobins, if not

Re: [Marxism] Earliest use of word Stalinism?

2010-07-31 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == well, as the old saying goes, I'll put that in my pipe and smoke it and see what

Re: [Marxism] Luis Corvalán Dies at 93 (Franco's terminology)

2010-07-29 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == also from the same obit: After the Allende government fell and Mr. Corvalán fled,

Re: [Marxism] Luis Corvalán Dies at 93 (Franco's terminology)

2010-07-29 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well, Michel Raptis aka Pablo in his excellent book, Revolution and

[Marxism] Mothers of Ludlow

2010-07-26 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == [SF Chronicle, Arts Section, 7/25/10] The massacre of striking Colorado coal

Re: [Marxism] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort – Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability ?

2010-07-21 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well, I dunno, Jeff Blankfort is a local personality on the Mendocino Coast where I

Re: [Marxism] NYT on sources of Zionist Settler movement

2010-07-06 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == thanks for alerting us to this, I checked it out. IHH started out as a

Re: [Marxism] Engels and Mexican War

2010-06-27 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Surely they were wrong on their own terms as evidenced by the fact that the main

Re: [Marxism] Engels and Mexican War

2010-06-27 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == [1847 speech by Charles Sumner opposing the Mexican War courtesy of the Spartacist

Re: [Marxism] Long Live Populist Pandering [was: RE: The fascist danger in the USA]

2010-06-19 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == exactly so, and such pedantry was also about buying into ruling class pundits'

Re: [Marxism] Super profits

2010-06-17 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I recall it from Lenin's pamphlets. I remember having that phrase rattling around

Re: [Marxism] Cockburn Joins Right Wing POW-MIA Hysteria

2010-06-14 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == [comments mistakenly sent privately and not posted on list as intended] Right, he

[Marxism] Cockburn Joins Right Wing POW-MIA Hysteria

2010-06-13 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Recently Alexander Cockburn solidified his drift into neo-con right wing demagogue

[Marxism] Bob Avakian Video

2010-05-17 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://revolutiontalk.net/ Send

Re: [Marxism] Re : Bob Avakian

2010-05-17 Thread Tom Cod
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == [Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia's bio of Avakian that gives the short version

  1   2   3   >