Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-26 Thread clay via Mercedes
I had it cleared twice and the thing still is retarded

clay

On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

 You probably just need the fault cleared.
 
 Dan
 
 
 On Aug 22, 2015, at 3:15 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I hate the crap electric in the W220
 
 Ever since I got the thing the driver side marker has been blinking as 
 normal.  The dash says that the marker is non op.  I figure it may be the 
 original bulb is bad, so I change it.  New bulb is very nice and orange, 
 bright, and blinks like the old one.  Normal.  Dash still says it is non-op
 
 clay
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread clay via Mercedes
I hate the crap electric in the W220

Ever since I got the thing the driver side marker has been blinking as normal.  
The dash says that the marker is non op.  I figure it may be the original bulb 
is bad, so I change it.  New bulb is very nice and orange, bright, and blinks 
like the old one.  Normal.  Dash still says it is non-op

clay



On Aug 22, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

 That’s nothing.  My 2003 S430 (W220) has four fuse boxes.  And some 
 electrical items have “electronic fuses” as MB calls them.  It’s a fancy name 
 for saying that they’re using an SCR to control a circuit, and it limits 
 current if it sees a ground or short circuit.
 
 Makes troubleshooting tough sometimes, too.  I had a side marker light out.  
 I test the bulb with a meter.  Open circuit.  For grins I checked the socket 
 for power with the light switch on.  Nothing.
 
 Further studying revealed that if there’s no load, the “electronic fuse” 
 won’t pass power to the circuit.
 
 Put a new 5W bulb in and it worked.
 
 Dan
 
 On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 So my wife wants to power her phone from a cig plug charger in the 2012 ML.  
 There is a ciggy lighter in the front console, and the manual shows 
 either/both a 12V socket there, but hers only has the ciggy lighter.  I try 
 to get the lighter out, push it down, nothing happens.  So I pry it out, put 
 in the charger, no juice.
 
 So I pop the hood, find the fuse box and there are only a few small fuses in 
 there and some relays and a 50A or 2 and no chart of anything.  WTF?  So 
 then I download the manual (she does not leave it in the car for some 
 reason) and it shows there are 3 (!!!) fuse boxes scattered around the car, 
 one in the side of the dash by the pass door and another under the back 
 seat.  I try to find the one by the door, there is none there.  WTF???  So 
 the manual says The fuse allocation chart is located under cover of the 
 rear one.  So I open that one up, it has some fuses in it too, but no chart. 
  WTF The 79 TD has a nice printed chart under the fuse box cover!  I had 
 to cut a little tab on the carpet cover too to get it lifted up, so I guess 
 no one has ever been in that fuse box.
 
 Have the Germans completely lost it?  (Or maybe the Alabama assembly 
 workers?)  Neither of the boxes has a fuse chart, how the hell are you 
 supposed to figure out what fuse might need to be changed?  Good news is the 
 fuses seem to be the newer flat things, I have a ton of those around but no 
 idea which one to pull.
 
 Off to the tubes to try to find a fuse chart
 
 --R
 
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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:38:07 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 It also gives you the ability to alter operating parameters as well.  I
 made some simple changes on my car so it thinks it was delivered to a
 hot part of the world.  As a result of the changes, my engine runs a
 bit cooler and my AC is a lot more efficient.

Now that's interesting. Does it cause the auxiliary fan in front of the
radiator/condenser more?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
So I found the fuse chart in a paper that was folded up and tucked in 
the fuse box, it has the map for all the boxes in Deutsche, Anglis, and 
some other language.  Found the ciggy lighter fuse, and of course there 
are no spare fuses and no fuse puller thingie.  Had a 15A fuse in my 
toolbox so popped the old one out, it was fried, popped the new one in, 
now there is juice to the ciggy lighter phone charger thingie.  Mama 
will be happy now.  Unclear why she did not mention it to the dealer 
when she took the vehicle in for the A or B service or whatever it was 
on Friday week ago.  Sigh.


The ones in the car are marked S as in 15S, is S the German for A?  
Did they have their own guy named Schultz or something who discovered 
current flow, and this is some sort of snub to M. Ampere?  (Hey, Dieter, 
throw me a 15 Schultz fuse in there willya?)


I should probably go buy a coupla boxes of fuses and a little puller 
thingie to put in there so next time it blows I can tell her how to 
CHANGE YOUR FUSES!


BTW the service consisted mostly of a 10k mile checkup and filters 
(engine and cabin) change, maybe oil too I forgot to notice, which 
according to the dealer guy would have been like $900 but it was covered 
under the CPO or warranty we got or something.  Another one is included, 
so after another 20k miles I guess I am going to have to do all that 
stuff (and buy myself a good bottle or 3 of whisky). She was ragging 
about why it is so expensive to do that stuff.  I tried to explain but I 
was having a hard time convincing myself.


Will the DAS system cover this 2012 ML?  Or is there something else like 
it?  I should look into that if I am going to have to maintain this 
thing myself.  I'm wondering too if the main computer in the thing talks 
to all that stuff and there might be some kind of special codes to get 
into it?  That would make some kind of sense, at least some Merkin sense.


--R

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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
 Dan wrote:
 
 What is nice is that with the [DAS] setup I have it works
 with everything from the early 1990s systems using the 38
 pin diagnostic connector all the way up to around 2010
 models.

 I don’t use it that often, but it’s an invaluable tool to
 have, even with the older cars.

Heh.  It seems we differ in our definition of older cars!

I'll live with the lower performance and economy in my type
of older car for the simplicity, durability, and
repairability.

--  Philip, with no SCRs in any of his taillight circuits.

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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread clay via Mercedes
we will never get the quality of cars that used to be made.  Now it is all 
plastic and wires.  Beyond the ability of the standard user to diagnose or 
repair, unless you are Penoff.

Priapis driving neighbor thinks that his plastic car will last a long time.  
All that plastic will be able to get 3D printed so parts will never go out of 
style.

clay

On Aug 22, 2015, at 10:29 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

 That's nothing.  My 2003 S430 (W220) has four fuse boxes.  And some 
 electrical items have electronic fuses as MB calls them.  It's a fancy 
 name for saying that they're using an SCR to control a circuit, and it 
 limits current if it sees a ground or short circuit.
 
 Makes troubleshooting tough sometimes, too.  I had a side marker light out.  
 I test the bulb with a meter.  Open circuit.  For grins I checked the socket 
 for power with the light switch on.  Nothing.
 
 Further studying revealed that if there's no load, the electronic fuse 
 won't pass power to the circuit.
 
 Put a new 5W bulb in and it worked.
 
 Dan
 
 More reasons why I don't want a MB made after 1990.
 
 Proof the MB designers truly lost their brains.  Bowties and pixiedust, but 
 none of the reliability and rationality the old German machinists and 
 engineers used to build cars with.
 
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 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 


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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
The Klebster would have a better idea of what is covered with later model stuff.

You’ll see the system identified as a “C3” or C4”.  I believe the C4 has wifi 
capabilities and doesn’t require a physical connection to the car to be used.

Again, I know Kaleb is up to speed on the later stuff, so I’ll defer to him on 
that.

Dan


 On Aug 22, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 So I found the fuse chart in a paper that was folded up and tucked in the 
 fuse box, it has the map for all the boxes in Deutsche, Anglis, and some 
 other language.  Found the ciggy lighter fuse, and of course there are no 
 spare fuses and no fuse puller thingie.  Had a 15A fuse in my toolbox so 
 popped the old one out, it was fried, popped the new one in, now there is 
 juice to the ciggy lighter phone charger thingie.  Mama will be happy now.  
 Unclear why she did not mention it to the dealer when she took the vehicle in 
 for the A or B service or whatever it was on Friday week ago.  Sigh.
 
 The ones in the car are marked S as in 15S, is S the German for A?  Did 
 they have their own guy named Schultz or something who discovered current 
 flow, and this is some sort of snub to M. Ampere?  (Hey, Dieter, throw me a 
 15 Schultz fuse in there willya?)
 
 I should probably go buy a coupla boxes of fuses and a little puller thingie 
 to put in there so next time it blows I can tell her how to CHANGE YOUR FUSES!
 
 BTW the service consisted mostly of a 10k mile checkup and filters (engine 
 and cabin) change, maybe oil too I forgot to notice, which according to the 
 dealer guy would have been like $900 but it was covered under the CPO or 
 warranty we got or something.  Another one is included, so after another 20k 
 miles I guess I am going to have to do all that stuff (and buy myself a good 
 bottle or 3 of whisky). She was ragging about why it is so expensive to do 
 that stuff.  I tried to explain but I was having a hard time convincing 
 myself.
 
 Will the DAS system cover this 2012 ML?  Or is there something else like it?  
 I should look into that if I am going to have to maintain this thing myself.  
 I'm wondering too if the main computer in the thing talks to all that stuff 
 and there might be some kind of special codes to get into it?  That would 
 make some kind of sense, at least some Merkin sense.
 
 --R
 
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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes


 On August 22, 2015 at 5:29 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 You’ll see the system identified as a “C3” or C4”.  I believe the C4 has wifi
 capabilities and doesn’t require a physical connection to the car to be used.

Doesn't require a physical connection to the computer, but I've never gotten the
wifi to work right on mine, don't know if it's the software, the C4, or the
laptop, but the tech guys can wifi onto the laptop to work on it so I doubt it's
my lappy. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

The ones in the car are marked S as in 15S, is S the German for A?


S for scheiss?  As in crappy American blade fuses?  :-)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
There are different parameters for the aux fan turn on temperature, for 
example, as well as changes to the interior blower fan speed, too.  For the 
later models like my W220 Mercedes has profiles set up in the software for 
various applications.  In this case there are profiles for the climate control 
system that determine how it works relative to the climate.  That is, there is 
a profile for “hot” climates, “normal” climates and “cold” climates.  I’ve been 
told these are comparable to the Middle East, most of the world, and higher 
latitude locations.  It affected everything from engine operating temperatures 
to blower speeds and aux fan settings, among other things.

As for the cost of the DAS, it depends.  You can do what I did and just buy the 
multiplexer, cables and software on an external hard drive (around $300) or go 
full bore and get it installed on an IBM T30 (?) laptop, which runs in the $500 
range.  I had an old HP laptop I wasn’t using for anything, so I have it 
running on it and nothing else.  It also includes the WIS, EPC and technical 
data, all of which can be referenced from the DAS system.

What is nice is that with the setup I have it works with everything from the 
early 1990s systems using the 38 pin diagnostic connector all the way up to 
around 2010 models.

You can get pretty deep into the cars with this, even with the older basic 
pre-ODBII proprietary system that is on the W140 and R129 chassis and others.  
For example, I know a guy in my W140 forum on BenzWorld that uses it to get 
transmission pressures.  By checking the pressures that the clutches engage at 
you can get a good idea of the internal condition of the transmission.

I don’t use it that often, but it’s an invaluable tool to have, even with the 
older cars.

Dan


 On Aug 22, 2015, at 3:14 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:38:07 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 It also gives you the ability to alter operating parameters as well.  I
 made some simple changes on my car so it thinks it was delivered to a
 hot part of the world.  As a result of the changes, my engine runs a
 bit cooler and my AC is a lot more efficient.
 
 Now that's interesting. Does it cause the auxiliary fan in front of the
 radiator/condenser more?
 
 
 Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
You probably just need the fault cleared.

Dan


 On Aug 22, 2015, at 3:15 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I hate the crap electric in the W220
 
 Ever since I got the thing the driver side marker has been blinking as 
 normal.  The dash says that the marker is non op.  I figure it may be the 
 original bulb is bad, so I change it.  New bulb is very nice and orange, 
 bright, and blinks like the old one.  Normal.  Dash still says it is non-op
 
 clay
 


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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
DAS is quite expensive is it not? The VCDS cable for my VW was something like 
$300 brand new, the software is free once you've bought the cable.

-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Okie Benz mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com 
 Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:38 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!
   
I felt much the same way, although I put my concerns aside in a compromise for 
the deal I got on the car.

That being said, I have to say that if you have the DAS software and 
multiplexer, troubleshooting and fault diagnosis is amazingly simple on these 
cars.  You pretty much plug the computer in, run the diagnostics, and it tells 
you what’s wrong (or not) and allows you to reset any fault codes.

The DAS software even gives you the links to the repair procedures and suggests 
possible problems based on the fault.

It also gives you the ability to alter operating parameters as well.  I made 
some simple changes on my car so it thinks it was delivered to a hot part of 
the world.  As a result of the changes, my engine runs a bit cooler and my AC 
is a lot more efficient.

If you don’t have the DAS, you’re pretty much left to guess at the problem.

Dan


 On Aug 22, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 More reasons why I don't want a MB made after 1990.
 
 Proof the MB designers truly lost their brains.  Bowties and pixiedust, but 
 none of the reliability and rationality the old German machinists and 
 engineers used to build cars with.
 
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


 


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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
So my wife wants to power her phone from a cig plug charger in the 
2012 ML.  There is a ciggy lighter in the front console, and the 
manual shows either/both a 12V socket there, but hers only has the 
ciggy lighter.  I try to get the lighter out, push it down, nothing 
happens.  So I pry it out, put in the charger, no juice.


So I pop the hood, find the fuse box and there are only a few small 
fuses in there and some relays and a 50A or 2 and no chart of 
anything.  WTF?  So then I download the manual (she does not leave 
it in the car for some reason) and it shows there are 3 (!!!) fuse 
boxes scattered around the car, one in the side of the dash by the 
pass door and another under the back seat.  I try to find the one by 
the door, there is none there.  WTF???  So the manual says The fuse 
allocation chart is located under cover of the rear one.  So I open 
that one up, it has some fuses in it too, but no chart.  WTF The 
79 TD has a nice printed chart under the fuse box cover!  I had to 
cut a little tab on the carpet cover too to get it lifted up, so I 
guess no one has ever been in that fuse box.


Have the Germans completely lost it?  (Or maybe the Alabama assembly 
workers?)  Neither of the boxes has a fuse chart, how the hell are 
you supposed to figure out what fuse might need to be changed?  Good 
news is the fuses seem to be the newer flat things, I have a ton of 
those around but no idea which one to pull.


Off to the tubes to try to find a fuse chart

--R


Don't have that problem on real Mercedes like my 240Ds, the 300D, the SDLs!

I am sure that is a bad habit learned from crypesler or other merkuns.

Even my dogde vans have one fuse box in front of the firewall, 
driver's side, just like all my MBs have been.  (easily accessible) 
Everything is marked, and fuses are also listed in the owners manual.


It must be a bad habit from too much 'shine in Alabama.

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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
I found some pdfs of the charts for the 4(!!!) fuse boxes that some MB 
tech posted, including a vid that shows where the pass side panel is 
(not where the manual says it is).  I guess they are findable on some MB 
maintenance server somewhere, probably only accessible by techs.  She 
just left on errands, I'll look at it when she gets back.


--R



On 8/22/15 12:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

That’s nothing.  My 2003 S430 (W220) has four fuse boxes.  And some electrical 
items have “electronic fuses” as MB calls them.  It’s a fancy name for saying 
that they’re using an SCR to control a circuit, and it limits current if it 
sees a ground or short circuit.

Makes troubleshooting tough sometimes, too.  I had a side marker light out.  I 
test the bulb with a meter.  Open circuit.  For grins I checked the socket for 
power with the light switch on.  Nothing.

Further studying revealed that if there’s no load, the “electronic fuse” won’t 
pass power to the circuit.

Put a new 5W bulb in and it worked.

Dan


On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:

So my wife wants to power her phone from a cig plug charger in the 2012 ML.  
There is a ciggy lighter in the front console, and the manual shows either/both 
a 12V socket there, but hers only has the ciggy lighter.  I try to get the 
lighter out, push it down, nothing happens.  So I pry it out, put in the 
charger, no juice.

So I pop the hood, find the fuse box and there are only a few small fuses in there and 
some relays and a 50A or 2 and no chart of anything.  WTF?  So then I download the manual 
(she does not leave it in the car for some reason) and it shows there are 3 (!!!) fuse 
boxes scattered around the car, one in the side of the dash by the pass door and another 
under the back seat.  I try to find the one by the door, there is none there.  WTF???  So 
the manual says The fuse allocation chart is located under cover of the rear 
one.  So I open that one up, it has some fuses in it too, but no chart.  WTF The 79 
TD has a nice printed chart under the fuse box cover!  I had to cut a little tab on the 
carpet cover too to get it lifted up, so I guess no one has ever been in that fuse box.

Have the Germans completely lost it?  (Or maybe the Alabama assembly workers?)  
Neither of the boxes has a fuse chart, how the hell are you supposed to figure 
out what fuse might need to be changed?  Good news is the fuses seem to be the 
newer flat things, I have a ton of those around but no idea which one to pull.

Off to the tubes to try to find a fuse chart

--R

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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
That's nothing.  My 2003 S430 (W220) has four fuse boxes.  And some 
electrical items have electronic fuses as MB calls them.  It's a 
fancy name for saying that they're using an SCR to control a 
circuit, and it limits current if it sees a ground or short circuit.


Makes troubleshooting tough sometimes, too.  I had a side marker 
light out.  I test the bulb with a meter.  Open circuit.  For grins 
I checked the socket for power with the light switch on.  Nothing.


Further studying revealed that if there's no load, the electronic 
fuse won't pass power to the circuit.


Put a new 5W bulb in and it worked.

Dan


More reasons why I don't want a MB made after 1990.

Proof the MB designers truly lost their brains.  Bowties and 
pixiedust, but none of the reliability and rationality the old German 
machinists and engineers used to build cars with.


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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I felt much the same way, although I put my concerns aside in a compromise for 
the deal I got on the car.

That being said, I have to say that if you have the DAS software and 
multiplexer, troubleshooting and fault diagnosis is amazingly simple on these 
cars.  You pretty much plug the computer in, run the diagnostics, and it tells 
you what’s wrong (or not) and allows you to reset any fault codes.

The DAS software even gives you the links to the repair procedures and suggests 
possible problems based on the fault.

It also gives you the ability to alter operating parameters as well.  I made 
some simple changes on my car so it thinks it was delivered to a hot part of 
the world.  As a result of the changes, my engine runs a bit cooler and my AC 
is a lot more efficient.

If you don’t have the DAS, you’re pretty much left to guess at the problem.

Dan


 On Aug 22, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 More reasons why I don't want a MB made after 1990.
 
 Proof the MB designers truly lost their brains.  Bowties and pixiedust, but 
 none of the reliability and rationality the old German machinists and 
 engineers used to build cars with.
 
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Re: [MBZ] CHANGE YOUR FUSES!

2015-08-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
That’s nothing.  My 2003 S430 (W220) has four fuse boxes.  And some electrical 
items have “electronic fuses” as MB calls them.  It’s a fancy name for saying 
that they’re using an SCR to control a circuit, and it limits current if it 
sees a ground or short circuit.

Makes troubleshooting tough sometimes, too.  I had a side marker light out.  I 
test the bulb with a meter.  Open circuit.  For grins I checked the socket for 
power with the light switch on.  Nothing.

Further studying revealed that if there’s no load, the “electronic fuse” won’t 
pass power to the circuit.

Put a new 5W bulb in and it worked.

Dan

 On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 So my wife wants to power her phone from a cig plug charger in the 2012 ML.  
 There is a ciggy lighter in the front console, and the manual shows 
 either/both a 12V socket there, but hers only has the ciggy lighter.  I try 
 to get the lighter out, push it down, nothing happens.  So I pry it out, put 
 in the charger, no juice.
 
 So I pop the hood, find the fuse box and there are only a few small fuses in 
 there and some relays and a 50A or 2 and no chart of anything.  WTF?  So then 
 I download the manual (she does not leave it in the car for some reason) and 
 it shows there are 3 (!!!) fuse boxes scattered around the car, one in the 
 side of the dash by the pass door and another under the back seat.  I try to 
 find the one by the door, there is none there.  WTF???  So the manual says 
 The fuse allocation chart is located under cover of the rear one.  So I 
 open that one up, it has some fuses in it too, but no chart.  WTF The 79 
 TD has a nice printed chart under the fuse box cover!  I had to cut a little 
 tab on the carpet cover too to get it lifted up, so I guess no one has ever 
 been in that fuse box.
 
 Have the Germans completely lost it?  (Or maybe the Alabama assembly 
 workers?)  Neither of the boxes has a fuse chart, how the hell are you 
 supposed to figure out what fuse might need to be changed?  Good news is the 
 fuses seem to be the newer flat things, I have a ton of those around but no 
 idea which one to pull.
 
 Off to the tubes to try to find a fuse chart
 
 --R
 
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