Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-13 Thread Tim White
are reaching consensus on hcite as the root. +1 hcite However, I still have my original question -- at one point there were cite and citation explorations going on. I believe the cite was related to blog posting (citing one post in another). Has this been renamed? ~ Tim a href=http

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes are the people who are voting for hCite intending the capital C? Not me: hCite = uF name hcite = root class name -- Andy Mabbett http://www.pigsonthewing.org.uk/uFsig

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tim White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes How about hCitation then? Like the others mention, you know its a format for citations. I could live with hCite as well... hCite says as much as hCitation, in fewer characters. hCite +1 hCitation0

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Michael McCracken
points, I vote: -1 'citation' -1 'hbib' -1 'hcitation' +1 'hcite' cheers, -mike [1]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#root_class_name PS, why the 'h' - is it an upside-down µ, or does it stand for 'html'? -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-03-30 Thread Michael McCracken
2007/3/30, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mar 29, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: I propose a 'container' class name that would be attached to a nested hCite instance to note when the nested hCite represents the containing item for the root hCite. The journal example above

[uf-discuss] [hCite] title

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
In Brian's book example on the citation-brainstorming wiki page, the title of the book is marked up with class=fn. Every example we have uses 'title', except for the US. patent. I vote to change that example to use 'title' and verify that 'title' is the class name to be used to represent titles

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-16 Thread Michael McCracken
was refereeing to hCite as the name. Seems we are reaching consensus on hcite as the root. +1 hcite I agree that this seems like a consensus on 'hcite' as the root class name. I have updated the examples on citation-brainstorming to reflect this, and added a note to the working straw schema

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 3: nesting

2006-09-25 Thread Michael McCracken
Just about this part: I have no opinion about citation vs. hcite. -mike http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-principles#h_word That page suggests that hcite for the root element is the way to go. -mike -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Ryan Cannon
On 1/11/07, Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1 for citation -1 for citation, it is too generic for a root class name. Makes sense; I'll withdraw any vote for `citation`. The pedant in me says that cite is a verb and not really appropriate to label something that is a noun. The poet

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-03-30 Thread Scott Reynen
On Mar 29, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: I propose a 'container' class name that would be attached to a nested hCite instance to note when the nested hCite represents the containing item for the root hCite. The journal example above would then look something like this: span class

[uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-11 Thread Michael McCracken
From Ryan Cannon on Dec 18th on the wiki: Is the root element hCite or citation. Let me root for citation as that semantically describes the content--similar to hCard's root class of vcard. I agree, 'citation' is clearer - can we vote on this? If we get a quorum, I'll edit the wiki examples

[uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
I'd like to hear some discussion on the language field for hCite. I think it is useful, but it has two things going against it for me: - many citation formats have supported useful work without storing the language (I've never had 'language' in a bibtex entry, nor seen it written in a list

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Scott Reynen
On Nov 13, 2006, at 4:58 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: I agree. It doesn't seem to help any of the use cases identified in the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases It does: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation- brainstorming#Buy_a_copy Both Amazon

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Tim White
- xfolkentry (I would have picked just 'xfolk' today, not sure why we went with xfolkentry) hListing proposal - hlisting Thus here is another suggestion, based on what I remember of Rohit's idea, for the root class name for the citation microformat: hcite Thanks, Tantek How about

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
On 1/31/07, Brian Suda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/31/07, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to hear some discussion on the language field for hCite. I think it is useful, but it has two things going against it for me: - many citation formats have supported useful work

[uf-discuss] hCite needs an evangelist

2007-09-12 Thread Michael McCracken
hCite has shown up in the list a bit recently, but no actual work is being done. The citation wiki pages haven't changed much since April. At this point, it seems like all it serves to do in reality is discourage people from developing more focused microformats for subsets of what hCite should

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
in a standard academic review. I guess, then, that we should at some point add hCitation to the review wiki page. I do think that, if we decide that this is out of the scope of hCite, it would be good to include on the wiki somewhere some explanation of why certain bibliographic/citation

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-27 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 9/27/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does that cater for the case of a journal article which is later anthologised, verbatim in a book? Does it need to? I'd treat that as a relation (in RDF, or a RDBMS), but it may well be overkill for hCite. Chapter -- isVersionOf --- Article

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)

2007-10-15 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Jeff McNeill wrote: Question: is there a set of semantic containers that could identify a bibliography within a given document, as well as a collection of bibliographies across documents? What's wrong with... ul class=bibliography/a link href=foobar rel=bibliography (from each document in

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 11/13/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bruce D'Arcus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes But citation uFs are being recommended for more than pure academic citations - in resumes, for example, where the page count is likely to be far more relevant. I

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-02-21 Thread Tim White
-visited value for hCite? I believe date-access is in the staw schema... yup, it's there. http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Basic_Citation_Stuctures ~ Tim tjameswhite.com'http://www.tjameswhite.com;tjameswhite.com

[uf-discuss] hCite status and next steps

2007-08-31 Thread Jason Calabrese
I'm going to be using hCite in 1 of the products that I work on. Since it will be only used interally for now I'm not going to wait for it to become a recommended specification. I do plan to stay current though. It looks like there are 3 primary issues now. 1) Identifiers 2) Types/Formats 3

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Ryan Cannon
PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:39:44 + From: Brian Suda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uf-discuss] hCite progress ... 2) one of the manditory properties across several different citation formats is TYPE. Is this a Book, Journal entry, Thesis, Video, etc. Usually and enumerated list

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes But I do feel strongly that page count is beyond scope. I agree. It doesn't seem to help any of the use cases identified in the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases It does: http

[uf-discuss] hCite problem statement/purpose of hCite?

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
This question stems from reading the hCite progress thread[1]: In reading the available citation pages on the wiki[2], the problems that hCitation tries to solve aren't stated anywhere clearly on the wiki, per the process.[3] (If I've missed it by mistake, I apologize.) Is there a page

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread John Allsopp
Tantek, microformat back in 2005 May at the WWW2005 conference in Tokyo, he used hBib or hCite (I don't quite remember, perhaps Rohit will see this and speak up) as a candidate name for the microformat it was hBib IIRC john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Timothy Gambell
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: I'm not convinced that a formalized Dublin Core microformat class set is necessary for a good citation microformat, and I do think it'd be a distraction to getting the main goal completed. A modular system with hDC broken out does seem

hCite Transformations Test (was Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress)

2006-11-16 Thread Jeremy Boggs
On Nov 13, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Brian Suda wrote: This is the new home for all the citation transformations: http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hcite/ Thanks Brian. I've marked up some book examples at: http://clioweb.org/hcitations.php For some reason, when I do a transformation, I get

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-01-31 Thread Brian Suda
On 1/31/07, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to hear some discussion on the language field for hCite. I think it is useful, but it has two things going against it for me: - many citation formats have supported useful work without storing the language (I've never had 'language

[uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
/citation-brainstorming . More to the point, the wiki has no consumer use case for my publication use case. Does this mean that hCite is not for me at all? If hCite is for me, what's the elevator pitch convincing me to put more effort into my generator? What benefits should I expect if I do

[uf-discuss] Re: [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-03-30 Thread Michael McCracken
I've added an example for a journal article to the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Citing_a_journal_article -mike 2007/3/29, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED]: (note - I originally sent this to uf-dev accidentally. My impression is that more hcite people are on uf

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Timothy Gambell
:// microformats.org/wiki/workofart-formats, and brainstorming is at http://microformats.org/wiki/workofart-brainstorming. I'd be happy to add those examples and formats to the citation pages on the wiki, but in the name of keeping hCite simple, I figured it would be best to keep work of art

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Michael McCracken
On 8/30/06, Timothy Gambell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: I'm not convinced that a formalized Dublin Core microformat class set is necessary for a good citation microformat, and I do think it'd be a distraction to getting the main goal

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
Mike, On 8/29/06, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you just mean the ability to mark up a relation between two citation items? For instance, if BibTeX had a convention of things like this: @inbook{chapterkey, title=chapter 1, cites=articlekey,article2key,..., partof=bookkey

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-02-01 Thread Michael McCracken
to correct this bias. Doh! I have some myself, on: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/biblio/bb/70-465.htm Nice, those are good examples - they do mark up the language of the citation itself, but don't mention the language of the cited object (presumably because it's easy to deduce

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-02-02 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/biblio/bb/70-465.htm Nice, those are good examples Thank you. - they do mark up the language of the citation itself, but don't mention the language of the cited object

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 8/29/06, Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a good summary to date and deserving of being captured on the citation-brainstorming page. I agree. I think the fundmental last hump to get over is the choice between a largely monolithic and flat BibTeX-like approach, and a more

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite status and next steps

2007-09-02 Thread Tantek Çelik
On 8/31/07 1:17 PM, Jason Calabrese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm going to be using hCite in 1 of the products that I work on. Since it will be only used interally for now I'm not going to wait for it to become a recommended specification. I do plan to stay current though. It looks like

[uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)

2007-10-14 Thread Jeff McNeill
Aloha microformaters, Individual citations are often collected within a document as a bibliography (references). Bibliographies from the library/institutional perspective are organized in collections (either the references or the actual items referenced. Another example of collections of

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Michael McCracken
Bruce, thanks for clearing that up. On 8/29/06, Bruce D'Arcus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, On 8/29/06, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you just mean the ability to mark up a relation between two citation items? For instance, if BibTeX had a convention of things like

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Tantek Çelik
On 7/30/06 10:35 AM, Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tantek ?elik: http://microformats.org/wiki/process Second, the folks working on the citation microformat to date have done *a lot* of work along the lines of the process which I recommend you read to understand the current state

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-11 Thread Tantek Çelik
went with xfolkentry) hListing proposal - hlisting I believe when Rohit Khare first proposed coming up with a citation microformat back in 2005 May at the WWW2005 conference in Tokyo, he used hBib or hCite (I don't quite remember, perhaps Rohit will see this and speak up) as a candidate name

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-10 Thread Paul Wilkins
://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming . More to the point, the wiki has no consumer use case for my publication use case. Does this mean that hCite is not for me at all? Not at all. You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microformats.org

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-22 Thread Henri Sivonen
. More to the point, the wiki has no consumer use case for my publication use case. Does this mean that hCite is not for me at all? Not at all. You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats Sure, but considering

[uf-discuss] Re: one citation microformat use case (Michael McCracken)

2006-02-13 Thread Ryan Cannon
I agree that the use of hAtom + citation, or even Atom + citation (hCite?) would be a good method to syndicate citation formats. The discussion of citations has been kicking up and then dying a number of times, and I take some of the blame as one of the people who'd like to push the format

[uf-discuss] hCite intra-document reference

2007-10-14 Thread Jeff McNeill
, books, or proceedings. (Sometimes references are referred to by a footnote.) Would it be plausible to use an include pattern[1] to provide in-line citation and more complete citation/bibliographic reference? This would also support the wikiref template for mediawiki[2]. [1] http://microformats.org

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
completely agree. From my understanding, that information included inside the DESCRIPTION field in hReview could be marked up with hCitation. hReview isn't, however, listed in the Modularity section of the citation page, though I imagine it could be.[1] Is there a reason why hCite could

[uf-discuss] Re: [hCite] call for examples: language (Andy Mabbett)

2007-02-02 Thread Ryan Cannon
of the words in the book's title, snip (And hence, drop the 'language' field from the hCite straw format?) I still don't think that that are anywhere near enough examples, especially of non-English-language sources, to be confident that it's not widely used. I'm going to suggest that a language

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-02-21 Thread Jeremy Boggs
against Tim's reasons, there are cases in which citations can have a date published and a date visited or accessed. When citing websites and web pages, for instance, some citation formats display date published and date visited, when that information is available. More often than

[uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Brian Suda
. This is the new home for all the citation transformations: http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hcite/ Once we get our version system setup for a citation test suite, i will be creating HTML and cite-specific formats and will need some feedback on other things to check-in (anyone else is more than welcome

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
, at 10:17 PM, Scott Reynen wrote: Page count still looks out of scope to me for hCite, and closer to the type of information (i.e. file size) being discussed in media- info. The only problem I see with this is that, according to the citation- brainstorming page, there is a significant

Re: [uf-discuss] Visual Art Titles Microformat Proposal

2006-10-21 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 10/21/06, Jeremy Boggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds like this might be a good addition to the citation microformat effort [1] and related pages. [2] I think the majority of the discussion/efffort for the citation has focused on text documents, but a case could certainly be made

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Scott Reynen
. hReview isn't, however, listed in the Modularity section of the citation page, though I imagine it could be.[1] Is there a reason why hCite could not be used in a book review marked up in hReview? I don't see any. You have to cite a book before you can review it, right? If there is a need

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Jeremy Boggs
. In contrast, specifying a specific page in a work: div class=citation div class=hciteJohn Doe, Lorem Ipsum, abbr title=20-23 class=pages20-23/abbr/div div class=hciteJane Doe, _Dolor Sit Amet_ abbr title=320 class=pages320/abbr/div /div Parsers would know that, because an HCITE is inside

Re: Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Brian Suda
could use tags, but then we are still picking out the tag portion as the TYPE value. You could do that already now with Keywords in hCite and Skills in hResume and Categories in hCard. And the value that gets extracted would need to still have to match to some sort of logical citation type. I ate

[uf-discuss] [hcite] indentifier

2007-02-21 Thread Ryan Cannon
Identifier is, Per the straw man[1]: An (not necessarily globally unique) identifier, such as a cite-key, pubmed ID number, or simply the reference number or string within a publication ([1] or [CLRS2001]) I wrote an hCite export template for BibDesk*, and used the identifier (cite-key

[uf-discuss] Re: one citation microformat use case (Michael McCracken)

2006-02-14 Thread Michael McCracken
collections and then reproduce a citation in the MLA/Chicago/insert journal style here/ format. I view hCite as one method to automate that process of publishing such automatically importable data. In BibDesk, we have a feature that lets people view a web page then select the text and choose

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] dates

2007-01-17 Thread Brian Suda
On 1/17/07, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking at the examples on citation-examples, I find the following frequencies of marking up a date: publication date: 21 date accessed: 3 date copyrighted: 1 (from OCLC worldcat online) I just added date-accessed to the working straw

[uf-discuss] Re: [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-04-02 Thread Ryan Cannon
and the journal have a title. I actually brought this up in December in response to Brian's straw format[1], but the words I thought to use were collection or in. I like in largely because some citation formats actually use that word to describe this type of relationship: The American

[uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Michael McCracken
Hi, aside from adding a few good examples of existing formats, it looks like there hasn't been any movement toward the Aug 30 deadline for hCite 0.1. Should we reschedule the goal? Also, what is the immediate next step on the path to a recommendation? Do we need to clarify the existing research

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Alf Eaton
is whether you're already integrating other data, such as images of book covers, from other sources, or whether *all* the data about the book needs to be in the citation. Personally, I think having as much information as possible is a good thing. This is most important for 'self' hCitations, less

[uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-02-20 Thread Michael McCracken
From Bruce D'Arcus on the wiki: I've mentioned more than once that date-published is misleadingly specific; too much for real world citations. Consider that many books are published in the year preceding their copyright date, which is in fact the date used for citation. I'd prefer just date

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-03-29 Thread Andy Mabbett
'? I've been reading Wikipedia's articles and policies on citation, and it uses both; -published chiefly for books and journal articles; -accessed for citing external web pages. (Start at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources) -- Andy Mabbett I wonder what the archives, Google

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Ross Singer
Again, and I don't mean to sound dismissal: What does the inclusion of 'total number of pages' grant you here? If you can't grab total number of pages, does your plan of absolute bird book aggregation fail miserably? It seems to me that the citation aggregator would be/could be doing something

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] title

2007-01-31 Thread Ryan Cannon
that 'title' is the class name to be used to represent titles of hCite elements. Other votes? I believe this comes from the To Do[1] section of the Citation wiki page: using existing class names to mark-up citations. FN or Formatted Name, is The name of the object,[2] while title means Job title

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-17 Thread Tim White
On 1/17/2007 Brian Suda said: --- i don't feel it is appropriate for us to mandate how to encode microformats. If i want to create a citation in prose inside a paragraph, then i should be able to 'hang' the class=hcite on the block-level p or div. Microformats are all about NOT changing user's

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
; raise questions without offering much on solutions. My apologies.) Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Maybe it would be useful to use the include-pattern in hCite? It seems like it would be helpful to be able to include information on a work in a smaller citation. Given the example

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 3: nesting

2006-09-25 Thread Michael McCracken
in this case). Also, citation could probably be hcite? Is your other question in the other email thread? If so, I'll respond over there. I have no opinion about citation vs. hcite. -mike -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/ misc: http://michael

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
to make a better citation format. I'm sure we can do better. But if we do, we miss the boat and lose the collective value of all the software that would natively support the format. Regardless of the end result, you will need software to convert from legacy formats into and out of hCite

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Ross Singer
feel this is a very short-sighted decision, if it's the route hCite goes... You'd never be able to link to an appropriate copy (because you wouldn't be able to determine with any semblance of confidence what an item actually is) and I'm therefore not sure what the point of this is. I guess the way

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Ross Singer
, Andy Mabbett wrote: I agree. It doesn't seem to help any of the use cases identified in the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases It does: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation- brainstorming#Buy_a_copy Both Amazon and ABE cite page counts. Sure

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-03-29 Thread Michael McCracken
there also be a date-accessed or date-visited value for hCite? I believe date-access is in the staw schema... yup, it's there. http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Basic_Citation_Stuctures ~ Tim OK, I disappeared for a while there, but is it fair to summarize this thread by saying

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation format straw proposal on the wiki

2006-03-29 Thread Ross Singer
whether it's a book ora journal. Combine it with hCite and suddenly we have bookCite I just want to point out that ambiguity might not be bad for determining what an item isn't, but it's not good practice for determining what an item is.I am currently going through our 705k marc records trying

RE: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field

2006-12-07 Thread Mike Schinkel
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael McCracken Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:05 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field This seems to have been buried - so again, to anyone interested in hCite: I want to define a new field URL to denote an http

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Michael McCracken
that what you're asking for is actually not as complicated as it may sound. Do you just mean the ability to mark up a relation between two citation items? For instance, if BibTeX had a convention of things like this: @inbook{chapterkey, title=chapter 1, cites=articlekey,article2key,..., partof

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Chris Messina
/microformats/hcite/ Once we get our version system setup for a citation test suite, i will be creating HTML and cite-specific formats and will need some feedback on other things to check-in (anyone else is more than welcome to create some tests too *hint* *hint* :) ). There have been a few hiccups

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Michael McCracken
somewhat harder. This might be a worthwhile tradeoff. I feel this is a very short-sighted decision, if it's the route hCite goes... A side note - I'm not in charge, I'm just loud :) hCite won't go that route unless a lot of people say it should. I'm personally in favor of including types and having

[uf-discuss] Re: one citation microformat use case (Michael McCracken)

2006-02-14 Thread Ryan Cannon
I only meant that a citation provides two useful pieces of information: stating that yes, someone else has said this, and where, when, and in what format I found said citation. I'd also like to take a minute to argue with placing the citation styles (MLA, APA and friends) with only

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
be discontinuous. 2) one of the manditory properties across several different citation formats is TYPE. Is this a Book, Journal entry, Thesis, Video, etc. Usually and enumerated list of values. The issue is that EVERYONE does it differently... And from my own experience, this is not at all easy to do. I've

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Andy Mabbett
the end page of a quotation the page run (e.g. 3-4, 6, 8) of a quotation At the very least, if we include some, but not all. of those in hCite, we should name them in such a way as to make it possible, preferably simple, to include the others in future. Presumably, existing citation standards

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-31 Thread Ross Singer
(although not necessarily the reverse). Does this seem accurate? -Ross. On 7/30/06, Edward Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 30, 2006, at 2:08 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote: What if we set a goal for hCite 0.1 of August 30? Is that reasonable? If Brian Suda has the spare cycles I think

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
once said it's not generally good practice to double up classes (hcite book) but I'd like some explanation about why. But I will say that in either case, one must allow for extensions. I've worked on this for a long time, and defining a fixed list of types that is anything but arbitrary is pretty

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
.), and sort of important too for formatting in the sense the there are different conventions (rules) for formatting different kinds of references. Note, though, that as someone who designed both a citation style language and code to format citations, I think sometimes people get too distracted

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
of it. Which is exactly why the length of the book is irrelevant. The only time you include pages in a citation is if you are referring to a section within a book (typically a chapter), and the purpose there is simply to help you find it. Page count does nothing to help you

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 11/13/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But citation uFs are being recommended for more than pure academic citations - in resumes, for example, where the page count is likely to be far more relevant. I seriously doubt it. I certainly wouldn't include it (and don't) in my CV

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Scott Reynen
in the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases I'm sure there are contexts in which page count would be helpful, but those seem to relate more to the media-info problem of distinguishing between multiple means of publishing the same content: http

RE: [uf-discuss] [hCite] dates

2007-01-17 Thread Joe Andrieu
Michael McCracken wrote: Looking at the examples on citation-examples, I find the following frequencies of marking up a date: publication date: 21 date accessed: 3 date copyrighted: 1 (from OCLC worldcat online) Actually, date accessed has at least three more examples: umich ning

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-31 Thread John Allsopp
a format for citations would be great. What they need is for is that any time a government publication refers to any other publication (a site, a book, a pamphlet on immunisation, a poster on healthy diets, whatever) they have to cite it. But of course there is no citation format. I actually

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Tantek Çelik
leaves things more open. 3) Nesting citation data in a citation. The ability to nest the same microformat inside itself is something that other microformats don't explicitly handle. The two options are: i) Using class=book div class=hcite div class=book span class=fnBook Title/span

[uf-discuss] Re: Microformats for scientific papers

2006-02-19 Thread Alf Eaton
of getting a scholarly (not just scientific) article microformat would be hCite/citation microformat, and a metadata format (possibly related to Dublin Core??). There is more than that, particularly when you want to include the actual data, but yes, the main parts so far are a) metadata, b

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 3: nesting

2006-09-25 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
, notwithstanding my other quetion about the type span (which seems even more funky in this case). Also, citation could probably be hcite? Bruce ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo

differentiating microformats (was Re: RE: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field )

2006-12-07 Thread Michael McCracken
McCracken Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:05 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field This seems to have been buried - so again, to anyone interested in hCite: I want to define a new field URL to denote an http URL that points to the location of a copy

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Brian Suda
Hello Mike, thanks for bringing this up. I spent a good portion of the weekend looking at my earlier straw proposal. I started to create an XMDP file and took the examples listed on the wiki and attempted to mark them-up with the citation microformat. This would help to find any deficiencies

[uf-discuss] [citation] Call for scope check (was Re: Citation: next steps?)

2006-09-22 Thread Ryan Cannon
-used citation formats. Is there any reason why neither BibTex nor EndNote fields are listed in the citation-examples page of the wiki? They seem the closest thing to what we're looking for, i.e. BibTex could be to hCite what vCard is to hCard. Blithely creating our own format seems reckless

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Fred Stutzman
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: On 7/30/06, Fred Stutzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, of course it isn't the overwhelmingly dominant bibliographic/citation format It's not even close. If you ask 100 people in my field about BibTeX, my guess is at least 90 of them of them won't

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
somewhat harder. This might be a worthwhile tradeoff. I feel this is a very short-sighted decision, if it's the route hCite goes... You'd never be able to link to an appropriate copy (because you wouldn't be able to determine with any semblance of confidence what an item actually is) and I'm therefore

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation format straw proposal on the wiki

2006-03-30 Thread C. Hudley
. Look at the examples collected on the wiki, very little metadata if any. (http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples -- look to the Implied Schema section) Earlier in this thread I stated that many of these examples are exactly the opposite of what we're trying to do -- they violate

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-31 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
to hCite. But I see citation metadata as a cycle. I want ulitmately to be able to output good uF metadata such that users can: - view a nicely formatted document in their browser, complete with proper citations - click some button and go to the original article or book - click some other thingy

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Andy Mabbett
disagree, not least because people often cite a whole book, rather than part of it. Which is exactly why the length of the book is irrelevant. No it isn't. Note not least. The only time you include pages in a citation is if you are referring to a section within a book (typically a chapter

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-23 Thread Brian Suda
On 3/23/07, Paul Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: On Mar 10, 2007, at 23:10, Paul Wilkins wrote: You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats Sure, but considering that I share my .bib, should I

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