Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-13 Thread Tim White
name > I concur with Andy. I was refereeing to hCite as the name. Seems we are reaching consensus on hcite as the root. +1 hcite However, I still have my original question -- at one point there were "cite" and "citation" explorations going on. I believe the "cite&qu

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-16 Thread Michael McCracken
hCite = uF name >hcite = root class name > I concur with Andy. I was refereeing to hCite as the name. Seems we are reaching consensus on hcite as the root. +1 hcite I agree that this seems like a consensus on 'hcite' as the root class name. I have updated the exa

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Michael McCracken
t;hcite" capitalization. After reading Tantek's points, I vote: -1 'citation' -1 'hbib' -1 'hcitation' +1 'hcite' cheers, -mike [1]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#root_class_name PS, why the 'h' - is it an ups

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Tim White
2445) >hReview - hreview (by pattern extension) >xFolk - xfolkentry (I would have picked just 'xfolk' today, not sure >why we >went with xfolkentry) >hListing proposal - hlisting >Thus here is another suggestion, based on what I remember of Rohit's >idea, >f

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >are the people who are voting for "hCite" >intending the capital C? Not me: hCite = uF name hcite = root class name -- Andy Mabbett <http:/

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tim White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >How about hCitation then? Like the others mention, you know its a >format for citations. I could live with hCite as well... hCite says as much as hCitation, in fewer characters. hCite +1

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Ryan Cannon
On 1/11/07, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: + 1 for citation -1 for citation, it is too generic for a root class name. Makes sense; I'll withdraw any vote for `citation`. The pedant in me says that "cite" is a verb and not really appropriate to label somethin

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-03-30 Thread Michael McCracken
2007/3/30, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Mar 29, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: > I propose a 'container' class name that would be attached to a nested > hCite instance to note when the nested hCite represents the containing > item for the root h

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Ryan Cannon
ot;Brian Suda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uf-discuss] hCite progress ... 2) one of the manditory properties across several different citation formats is TYPE. Is this a Book, Journal entry, Thesis, Video, etc. Usually and enumerated list of values. The issue is that EVERYONE does it

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 3: nesting

2006-09-25 Thread Michael McCracken
Just about this part: I have no opinion about citation vs. hcite. -mike http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-principles#h_word That page suggests that hcite for the root element is the way to go. -mike -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack

[uf-discuss] hCite "problem" statement/purpose of hCite?

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
This question stems from reading the "hCite progress" thread[1]: In reading the available citation pages on the wiki[2], the problems that hCitation tries to solve aren't stated anywhere clearly on the wiki, per the process.[3] (If I've missed it by mistake, I apologi

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Timothy Gambell
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: I'm not convinced that a formalized Dublin Core microformat class set is necessary for a good citation microformat, and I do think it'd be a distraction to getting the main goal completed. A modular system with hDC broken out d

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Michael McCracken
On 8/30/06, Timothy Gambell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: > I'm not convinced that a formalized Dublin Core microformat class set > is necessary for a good citation microformat, and I do think it'd be a > distraction

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-10 Thread Paul Wilkins
se at http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming . More to the point, the wiki has no consumer use case for my publication use case. Does this mean that hCite is not for me at all? Not at all. You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microf

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Timothy Gambell
http:// microformats.org/wiki/workofart-formats, and brainstorming is at http://microformats.org/wiki/workofart-brainstorming. I'd be happy to add those examples and formats to the citation pages on the wiki, but in the name of keeping hCite simple, I figured it would be best to keep w

[uf-discuss] hCite needs an evangelist

2007-09-12 Thread Michael McCracken
hCite has shown up in the list a bit recently, but no actual work is being done. The citation wiki pages haven't changed much since April. At this point, it seems like all it serves to do in reality is discourage people from developing more focused microformats for subsets of what hCite s

[uf-discuss] [hCite] title

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
In Brian's book example on the citation-brainstorming wiki page, the title of the book is marked up with class="fn". Every example we have uses 'title', except for the US. patent. I vote to change that example to use 'title' and verify that 'title&#x

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-22 Thread Henri Sivonen
n-brainstorming . More to the point, the wiki has no consumer use case for my publication use case. Does this mean that hCite is not for me at all? Not at all. You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats Sure, but c

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread Ross Singer
On 1/11/07, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > + 1 for citation -1 for citation, it is too generic for a root class name. Agreed, I don't like 'citation'. hCitation or hCite would be fine -1 on hBib -Ross.

[uf-discuss] Re: one citation microformat use case (Michael McCracken)

2006-02-13 Thread Ryan Cannon
I agree that the use of hAtom + citation, or even Atom + citation (hCite?) would be a good method to syndicate citation formats. The discussion of citations has been kicking up and then dying a number of times, and I take some of the blame as one of the people who'd like to push the f

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
Mike, On 8/29/06, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Do you just mean the ability to mark up a relation between two citation items? For instance, if BibTeX had a convention of things like this: @inbook{chapterkey, title="chapter 1", cites="articlekey,art

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-02-01 Thread Michael McCracken
eakers are less likely to >> be aware of language of an issue, or to be working on second languages? >> > >Absolutely - I'm asking for help to correct this bias. Doh! I have some myself, on: <http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/biblio/bb/70-465.htm> Nice, t

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-02-02 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> <http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/biblio/bb/70-465.htm> > >Nice, those are good examples Thank you. > - they do mark up the language of the >citation itself, but don

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Scott Reynen
On Nov 13, 2006, at 4:58 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: I agree. It doesn't seem to help any of the use cases identified in the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases It does: <http://microformats.org/wiki/citation- brainstorming#Buy_a_copy> Both

[uf-discuss] Re: one citation microformat use case (Michael McCracken)

2006-02-14 Thread Michael McCracken
local collections and then reproduce a citation in the MLA/Chicago/insert journal style here/ format. I view hCite as one method to automate that process of publishing such automatically importable data. In BibDesk, we have a feature that lets people view a web page then select the text and c

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-11 Thread Tantek Çelik
iew (by pattern extension) xFolk - xfolkentry (I would have picked just 'xfolk' today, not sure why we went with xfolkentry) hListing proposal - hlisting I believe when Rohit Khare first proposed coming up with a citation microformat back in 2005 May at the WWW2005 conference in Tokyo, he

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Jeremy Boggs
mber of pages. In contrast, specifying a specific page in a work: John Doe, "Lorem Ipsum," class="pages">20-23 Jane Doe, _Dolor Sit Amet_ class="pages">320 Parsers would know that, because an HCITE is inside a "citation" container, it is listing o

[uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-11 Thread Michael McCracken
From Ryan Cannon on Dec 18th on the wiki: "Is the root element "hCite" or "citation". Let me root for "citation" as that semantically describes the content--similar to hCard's root class of "vcard"." I agree, 'citation' is clear

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
below: On Nov 13, 2006, at 10:17 PM, Scott Reynen wrote: Page count still looks out of scope to me for hCite, and closer to the type of information (i.e. file size) being discussed in media- info. The only problem I see with this is that, according to the citation- brainstorming pag

[uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Brian Suda
new home for all the citation transformations: http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hcite/ Once we get our version system setup for a citation test suite, i will be creating HTML and cite-specific formats and will need some feedback on other things to check-in (anyone else is more than welcome to

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Tantek Çelik
On 7/30/06 10:35 AM, "Simon Cozens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tantek ?elik: >> http://microformats.org/wiki/process >> Second, the folks working on the citation microformat to date have done *a >> lot* of work along the lines of the process which I re

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite status and next steps

2007-09-02 Thread Tantek Çelik
On 8/31/07 1:17 PM, "Jason Calabrese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm going to be using hCite in 1 of the products that I work on. > > Since it will be only used interally for now I'm not going to wait for it to > become a recommended specification. I d

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-03-30 Thread Scott Reynen
On Mar 29, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Michael McCracken wrote: I propose a 'container' class name that would be attached to a nested hCite instance to note when the nested hCite represents the containing item for the root hCite. The journal example above would then look something

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
If it's in a review and it's describing the item you're reviewing, I'd say it belongs in hReview's description field. I completely agree. From my understanding, that information included inside the DESCRIPTION field in hReview could be marked up with hCitation. hRevie

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 11/13/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bruce D'Arcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> But citation uFs are being recommended for more than pure academic >> citations - in resumes, for example, where the page count i

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-01-31 Thread Brian Suda
On 1/31/07, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'd like to hear some discussion on the language field for hCite. I think it is useful, but it has two things going against it for me: - many citation formats have supported useful work without storing the language (I&#

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 3: nesting

2006-09-25 Thread Michael McCracken
#x27;s clear that the elements under the > container span are all referring to the item that's of type book... > > chapter: > stuff > book > A collection of stuff I thnk that's fine, notwithstanding my other quetion about the "type" span (which

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Chris Messina
ns: http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hcite/ Once we get our version system setup for a citation test suite, i will be creating HTML and cite-specific formats and will need some feedback on other things to check-in (anyone else is more than welcome to create some tests too *hint* *hint* :) ).

[uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
I'd like to hear some discussion on the language field for hCite. I think it is useful, but it has two things going against it for me: - many citation formats have supported useful work without storing the language (I've never had 'language' in a bibtex entry, nor seen it

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] call for examples: language

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
On 1/31/07, Brian Suda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 1/31/07, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd like to hear some discussion on the language field for hCite. > I think it is useful, but it has two things going against it for me: > > - many citation

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-02-21 Thread Tim White
ate-accessed or date-visited value > >for hCite? I believe date-access is in the staw schema... yup, it's there. http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Basic_Citation_Stuctures ~ Tim tjameswhite.com'>http:

[uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
s.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming . More to the point, the wiki has no consumer use case for my publication use case. Does this mean that hCite is not for me at all? If hCite is for me, what's the elevator pitch convincing me to put more effort into my generator? What benefits should I

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
I come up with. (I've tended to do that on this list; raise questions without offering much on solutions. My apologies.) Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Maybe it would be useful to use the include-pattern in hCite? It seems like it would be helpful to be able to include i

hCite Transformations Test (was Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress)

2006-11-16 Thread Jeremy Boggs
On Nov 13, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Brian Suda wrote: This is the new home for all the citation transformations: http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hcite/ Thanks Brian. I've marked up some book examples at: http://clioweb.org/hcitations.php For some reason, when I do a transformation,

[uf-discuss] hCite status and next steps

2007-08-31 Thread Jason Calabrese
I'm going to be using hCite in 1 of the products that I work on. Since it will be only used interally for now I'm not going to wait for it to become a recommended specification. I do plan to stay current though. It looks like there are 3 primary issues now. 1) Identifiers 2) Types

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Ross Singer
Again, and I don't mean to sound dismissal: What does the inclusion of 'total number of pages' grant you here? If you can't grab total number of pages, does your plan of absolute bird book aggregation fail miserably? It seems to me that the citation aggregator would be/coul

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] title

2007-01-31 Thread Ryan Cannon
e 'title' and verify that 'title' is the class name to be used to represent titles of hCite elements. Other votes? I believe this comes from the To Do[1] section of the Citation wiki page: using existing class names to mark-up citations. "FN" or Formatted Name,

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Ross Singer
2006, at 4:58 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: >> I agree. It doesn't seem to help any of the use cases identified in >> the wiki: >> >> http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases > > It does: > > <http://microformats.org/wiki/citation- &

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-03-29 Thread Michael McCracken
> >That said, should there also be a date-accessed or date-visited value > >for hCite? I believe date-access is in the staw schema... yup, it's there. http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Basic_Citation_Stuctures ~ Tim OK, I disappeared for a while there, but i

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Andy Mabbett
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> But I do feel strongly that page count is beyond scope. > >I agree. It doesn't seem to help any of the use cases identified in >the wiki: > >http://microformats.org/wiki/cit

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-12 Thread John Allsopp
Tantek, microformat back in 2005 May at the WWW2005 conference in Tokyo, he used "hBib" or "hCite" (I don't quite remember, perhaps Rohit will see this and speak up) as a candidate name for the microformat it was hBib IIRC john John Allsopp style mas

[uf-discuss] [hCite] Wikipedia Book infobox template

2007-01-31 Thread Michael McCracken
added the fields they have in their template to the citation-examples page: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples#Book_Infobox -mike -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/ misc: http://michael-mccrac

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-23 Thread Paul Wilkins
Henri Sivonen wrote: On Mar 10, 2007, at 23:10, Paul Wilkins wrote: You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats Sure, but considering that I share my .bib, should I expect people to want to scrape my (X)HTML

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-02-21 Thread Jeremy Boggs
guing against Tim's reasons, there are cases in which citations can have a date published and a date visited or accessed. When citing websites and web pages, for instance, some citation formats display date published and date visited, when that information is available. More ofte

[uf-discuss] [hcite] indentifier

2007-02-21 Thread Ryan Cannon
Identifier is, Per the straw man[1]: > An (not necessarily globally unique) identifier, such as a > cite-key, pubmed ID number, or simply the reference number > or string within a publication ([1] or [CLRS2001]) I wrote an hCite export template for BibDesk*, and used the identifier

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Jeremy Boggs
do have to include the bibliographic information before you can review it, at least in a standard academic review. I guess, then, that we should at some point add hCitation to the review wiki page. I do think that, if we decide that this is out of the scope of hCite, it would be good to i

Re: Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Brian Suda
list that maps to the 80% of common types. We could use tags, but then we are still picking out the tag portion as the TYPE value. You could do that already now with "Keywords" in hCite and "Skills" in hResume and "Categories" in hCard. And the value that gets extra

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)

2007-10-14 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Jeff McNeill wrote: Question: is there a set of semantic containers that could identify a bibliography within a given document, as well as a collection of bibliographies across documents? What's wrong with... (from each document in the collection) -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis ___

[uf-discuss] hCite intra-document reference

2007-10-14 Thread Jeff McNeill
, chapters, books, or proceedings. (Sometimes references are referred to by a footnote.) Would it be plausible to use an include pattern[1] to provide in-line citation and more complete citation/bibliographic reference? This would also support the wikiref template for mediawiki[2]. [1] http://microf

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-17 Thread Tim White
On 1/17/2007 Brian Suda said: >--- i don't feel it is appropriate for us to mandate how to encode >microformats. If i want to create a citation in prose inside a >paragraph, then i should be able to 'hang' the class="hcite" on the >block-level or . Microforma

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-30 Thread Michael McCracken
Bruce, thanks for clearing that up. On 8/29/06, Bruce D'Arcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mike, On 8/29/06, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do you just mean the ability to mark up a relation between two citation items? > > For instance, if BibTeX had a

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-27 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 9/27/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does that cater for the case of a journal article which is later anthologised, verbatim in a book? Does it need to? I'd treat that as a relation (in RDF, or a RDBMS), but it may well be overkill for hCite. Chapter --&g

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] citation root element

2007-01-17 Thread Brian Suda
ned about it now. --- i don't feel it is appropriate for us to mandate how to encode microformats. If i want to create a citation in prose inside a paragraph, then i should be able to 'hang' the class="hcite" on the block-level or . Microformats are all about NOT changing us

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Edward Summers
On Jul 30, 2006, at 2:08 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote: What if we set a goal for hCite 0.1 of August 30? Is that reasonable? If Brian Suda has the spare cycles I think this is an excellent idea. The citation effort has gone on for a long time, so Simon's questions are most we

[uf-discuss] Re: [hcite] nesting container elements

2007-03-30 Thread Michael McCracken
I've added an example for a journal article to the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Citing_a_journal_article -mike 2007/3/29, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: (note - I originally sent this to uf-dev accidentally. My impression is that more hcite pe

Re: [uf-discuss] Visual Art Titles Microformat Proposal

2006-10-21 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 10/21/06, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It sounds like this might be a good addition to the citation microformat effort [1] and related pages. [2] I think the majority of the discussion/efffort for the citation has focused on text documents, but a case could certainly be mad

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
On 8/29/06, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is a good summary to date and deserving of being captured on the citation-brainstorming page. I agree. I think the fundmental last hump to get over is the choice between a largely monolithic and flat BibTeX-like approach, and

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Michael McCracken
but automatic parsing somewhat harder. This > might be a worthwhile tradeoff. > I feel this is a very short-sighted decision, if it's the route hCite goes... A side note - I'm not in charge, I'm just loud :) hCite won't go that route unless a lot of people say it should.

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
m up blue-sky scenarios on how to make a better citation format. I'm sure we can do better. But if we do, we miss the boat and lose the collective value of all the software that would natively support the format. Regardless of the end result, you will need software to convert from legac

Re: [uf-discuss] [hCite] dates

2007-01-17 Thread Brian Suda
On 1/17/07, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Looking at the examples on citation-examples, I find the following frequencies of marking up a date: publication date: 21 date accessed: 3 date copyrighted: 1 (from OCLC worldcat online) I just added date-accessed to the working

[uf-discuss] Re: [hCite] call for examples: language (Andy Mabbett)

2007-02-02 Thread Ryan Cannon
tely from the language of the words in the book's title, (And hence, drop the 'language' field from the hCite straw format?) I still don't think that that are anywhere near enough examples, especially of non-English-language sources, to be confident that it's not w

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation format straw proposal on the wiki

2006-03-29 Thread Breton Slivka
I suppose it's worth fleshing out what I mean by modularization a bit more, because I think it's all that's neccesary to infer type. Suppose we have a core citation format, such as Tim White shows, containing the following properties/classes. hCite Author (hcard) Title Dat

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-14 Thread Scott Reynen
letely agree. From my understanding, that information included inside the DESCRIPTION field in hReview could be marked up with hCitation. hReview isn't, however, listed in the "Modularity" section of the citation page, though I imagine it could be.[1] Is there a reason why hC

[uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Michael McCracken
Hi, aside from adding a few good examples of existing formats, it looks like there hasn't been any movement toward the Aug 30 deadline for hCite 0.1. Should we reschedule the goal? Also, what is the immediate next step on the path to a recommendation? Do we need to clarify the existing res

[uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)

2007-10-14 Thread Jeff McNeill
Aloha microformaters, Individual citations are often collected within a document as a bibliography (references). Bibliographies from the library/institutional perspective are organized in collections (either the references or the actual items referenced. Another example of collections of reference

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Ross Singer
adeoff. I feel this is a very short-sighted decision, if it's the route hCite goes... You'd never be able to link to an appropriate copy (because you wouldn't be able to determine with any semblance of confidence what an item actually is) and I'm therefore not sure what the poin

[uf-discuss] Re: one citation microformat use case (Michael McCracken)

2006-02-14 Thread Ryan Cannon
I only meant that a citation provides two useful pieces of information: stating that yes, someone else has said this, and where, when, and in what format I found said citation. I'd also like to take a minute to argue with placing the citation styles (MLA, APA and friends) with on

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Andy Mabbett
ingle page of a quotation the start page of a quotation the end page of a quotation the page run (e.g. "3-4, 6, 8") of a quotation At the very least, if we include some, but not all. of those in hCite, we should name them in such a way as to make it possible,

Re: [uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-03-29 Thread Andy Mabbett
lished' and 'date-accessed'? I've been reading Wikipedia's articles and policies on citation, and it uses both; -published chiefly for books and journal articles; -accessed for citing external web pages. (Start at: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources&

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-31 Thread John Allsopp
ly says "a format for citations would be great". What they need is for is that any time a government publication refers to any other publication (a site, a book, a pamphlet on immunisation, a poster on healthy diets, whatever) they have to cite it. But of course there is no ci

Re: [uf-discuss] citation: another example of practice in the wild

2006-08-16 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
rtant in lots of contexts beyond citaitons. It makes more sense to me that hCite would use that, and that other formats could too, than that we'd define it all in hCite. FWIW, here's the demo I prepared for the ODF group to show namepsace and vocabularly mxing, and example of the relational

Re: [uf-discuss] Easy book citations

2006-07-30 Thread Fred Stutzman
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: On 7/30/06, Fred Stutzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well, of course it isn't the overwhelmingly dominant bibliographic/citation format It's not even close. If you ask 100 people in my field about BibTeX, my guess is at lea

RE: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field

2006-12-07 Thread Mike Schinkel
; [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Michael McCracken > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:05 PM > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field > > This seems to have been buried - so again, to anyone > interested in hCite: > > I

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-16 Thread Alf Eaton
nk can be achieved by such an asinine comment. > I think the question is whether you're already integrating other data, such as images of book covers, from other sources, or whether *all* the data about the book needs to be in the citation. Personally, I think having as much information a

[uf-discuss] [hcite] date-published

2007-02-20 Thread Michael McCracken
From Bruce D'Arcus on the wiki: "I've mentioned more than once that "date-published" is misleadingly specific; too much for real world citations. Consider that many books are published in the year preceding their copyright date, which is in fact the date used for citati

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation Straw Proposal II

2006-04-29 Thread Ross Singer
Brian, this is quite impressive. I particularly like the use of hCard in this context (although I think it's critical that we use more granular n attributes -- there are just too many ways to mark up a citation). Going into your "unresolved items" -- I see URL being pretty d

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation format straw proposal on the wiki

2006-03-29 Thread Ross Singer
e same whether it's a book ora journal. Combine it with hCite and suddenly we have bookCite I just want to point out that ambiguity might not be bad for determining what an item isn't, but it's not good practice for determining what an item is.I am currently going through our 705k m

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 2:

2006-09-25 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
but automatic parsing somewhat harder. This > might be a worthwhile tradeoff. > I feel this is a very short-sighted decision, if it's the route hCite goes... You'd never be able to link to an appropriate copy (because you wouldn't be able to determine with any semblance of co

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-23 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Mar 23, 2007, at 14:22, Paul Wilkins wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: On Mar 10, 2007, at 23:10, Paul Wilkins wrote: You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the citation formats http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats Sure, but considering that I share my .bib, should I

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Scott Reynen
identified in the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Use_Cases I'm sure there are contexts in which page count would be helpful, but those seem to relate more to the media-info problem of distinguishing between multiple means of publishing the same

RE: [uf-discuss] [hCite] dates

2007-01-17 Thread Joe Andrieu
Michael McCracken wrote: > Looking at the examples on citation-examples, I find the > following frequencies of marking up a date: > > publication date: 21 > date accessed: 3 > date copyrighted: 1 (from OCLC worldcat online) Actually, date accessed has at least three more

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)

2007-10-17 Thread Jeff McNeill
(1-5 stars), summaries, bibTeX entries, and citation statistics. On the ACM website[4], a given article[5] has a link to 'find similar articles'[6], which is in essence an annotated bibliography. It seems that rel (rev being deprecated[7]), with a bit of semantics, could distinguish t

differentiating microformats (was Re: RE: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field )

2006-12-07 Thread Michael McCracken
TECTED] On > Behalf Of Michael McCracken > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:05 PM > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] [citation] url field > > This seems to have been buried - so again, to anyone > interested in hCite: > > I want to define a n

Re: [uf-discuss] [citation]: Brian's outstanding issues 3: nesting

2006-09-25 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
n #2, IMO, since it's clear that the elements under the container span are all referring to the item that's of type book... chapter: stuff book A collection of stuff I thnk that's fine, notwithstanding my other quetion about the "type" span (which seems even

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
; Don't worry about start and end because, as you noted, pages can be discontinuous. 2) one of the manditory properties across several different citation formats is TYPE. Is this a Book, Journal entry, Thesis, Video, etc. Usually and enumerated list of values. The issue is that EVERYONE does

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite elevator pitch and my bibliography generator

2007-03-23 Thread Brian Suda
On 3/23/07, Paul Wilkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: > On Mar 10, 2007, at 23:10, Paul Wilkins wrote: >> You are using the BibTex format, which is covered in the >> citation formats http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats > > Sure, but consi

Re: [uf-discuss] hCite progress

2006-11-13 Thread Bruce D'Arcus
some formats (BibTeX, RIS, etc.), and sort of important too for formatting in the sense the there are different conventions (rules) for formatting different kinds of references. Note, though, that as someone who designed both a citation style language and code to format citations, I think sometimes

Re: [uf-discuss] citation: another example of practice in the wild

2006-08-16 Thread Michael McCracken
texts beyond citaitons. It makes more sense to me that hCite would use that, and that other formats could too, than that we'd define it all in hCite. FWIW, here's the demo I prepared for the ODF group to show namepsace and vocabularly mxing, and example of the relational character of

Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

2006-08-29 Thread Michael McCracken
that what you're asking for is actually not as complicated as it may sound. Do you just mean the ability to mark up a relation between two citation items? For instance, if BibTeX had a convention of things like this: @inbook{chapterkey, title="chapter 1", cites="articlekey,arti

[uf-discuss] [citation] Call for scope check (was Re: Citation: next steps?)

2006-09-22 Thread Ryan Cannon
ussen, Jens ... BibDesk[1] also exports the following: Vicente, Kim J. and Rasmussen, Jens ... Perhaps instead of wheel reinvention, we should look to one of these well-used citation formats. Is there any reason why neither BibTex nor EndNote fields are listed in the cit

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