Re: New laptop recommendations

[Dumitru Mișu Moldovan]

On 06/26/18 11:03, Marco van Hulten wrote:

Robert,

On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote:

I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
assume they will be opensource friendly.


It could be fine, but I would not just assume this.  The pre-configured
Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use,
and are not included in OpenBSD.


There are no proprietary drivers included in Ubuntu by default, as best 
as I can remember.  There are two things that may lead you to believe that:


  1. You can install proprietary drivers easily, if needed.  There's 
even an option in the system settings menu: "Additional Drivers".


  2. Contrary to Debian, from which it is derived, Ubuntu installation 
disks include binary "blobs", closed-source firmware needed by some 
hardware such as network cards.  With Debian you are expected to copy 
the needed firmware to an additional floppy disk or USB drive, to be 
manually picked during installation.


AFAIK some Dell Inspirons of "Ubuntu version" vintage come with a 
discrete Nvidia GPU in addition to the Intel one, but even those are 
shipped with the open-source drivers and it's up to the user to setup 
Bumblebee to support Nvidia Optimus.


Would like to hear if things changed though!



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: New laptop recommendations

[lists]

Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:47:31 -0400 Rupert Gallagher 
> What crap is this?

YOURS.  What you put into a system is what you get from the same system..

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,

Stuart Longland wrote:

The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well.  The Lenovo ones?  Looking at
the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both
Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs.


that is true... the latest IBM heritage you can get is the T43, although 
already manufactured by Lenovo.
Wonderful chassis, incredible hinges... and I have one running Ubuntu, 
une NetBSD.
I run OpenBSD on a T60 with the hi-res screen and while it works very 
well as far as hardware supports, the chassis quality is already lesser.


The bigger cousin, the T61 I have, already has nvidia and that is a 
nightmare: I couldn't get it useful on neither OpenBSD nor NetBSD so it 
is my FreeBSD tinker machine now, where I have to use the proprietary 
drivers (the opensources ones are available, but not up to it)


then from there it goes up and down...




I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm
the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it
for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.


I try to use my BSD boxen for every day use, although I always have a 
Windows machine at hand for the "stupid" work.

I use X11 program on it and browse and use mail.

One thing I never tried on any BSD since a long time is the use of a 
webcam: the only thing I use is Skype and it is quite hopeless.


The OP asked for a MacBook Pro replacement: since the value of a Mac for 
me is now mostly MacOS (oh, sorry macOS)

With OpenBSD many alterantives are interesting: besides the cited ThinkPads

I have tried OpenBSD on a discarded hp ProBook 4530s... I need to use 
intel graphics instead of the Radeon, but it works very well. It used 
not too, but 6.2 and 6.3 brought an incredible improvement: sleep works, 
wireless, correct display brightness: quick and responsive! The machine 
has a very decent keyboard too and the i5 is fine also for development 
and browsing (except the classic browser issues on FOSS). If you can get 
one for cheap, recommended: but it is a big beast.


Riccardo

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Daniel Corbe]

at 2:53 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote:


Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:01:42 + (UTC) Robert Gilaard 

I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell


Hi Robert, Rupert,

Email coming from Yahoo is flagged as phishing scam, wastes time digging.

 **This is unacceptable advice**


Emphasis mine.  Let’s not admonish people over the providers they use just  
because your mailer is misconfigured.  After all, I don’t have this issue.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Rupert Gallagher]

What crap is this?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 20:53,  wrote:

> Your other threads on server boards and systems make much more sense now.

You are off topic, and have no fucking clue of what you are talking about.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[lists]

Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:01:42 + (UTC) Robert Gilaard 
>  I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell

Hi Robert, Rupert,

Email coming from Yahoo is flagged as phishing scam, wastes time digging.

This is unacceptable advice, something very wrong with the advertisement.
Search for string "Dell", the company is "in difficulties":  Compromised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_TAO_product_catalog

Also search for the string "implant", and ask dmesg from an OpenBSD user.
Or a developer who actually uses the hardware and invests effort it runs.

> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
> assume they will be opensource friendly.

Assumptions & presumptions are examples, of superstitious mind abduction.
Common misconception, corporate operating system not a free nor open one.

Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:37:18 -0400 Rupert Gallagher 
> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

Your other threads on server boards and systems make much more sense now.
You must however ask around more for long term production use of systems.

Search the archives and read carefully advice comes mostly free and open.

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Henrik Dige Semark]

Generally the Lenovo laptops works really well, nothing beats the IBM
days, but I have at the moment around 90 or so X1 Carbon's out in the
field in various generations from generation 2 all the way to latest 6th
gen., never had problems with the Linux support or stability of the
laptops.

Can't say for *BSD reliability, since I'm the only one use *BSD and both
my T430 and T450 works well, while my P51 is having problems with the
Nvidia/Intel combo. But if I disable the Nvidia card in BIOS it works
okay after a bit of fitteling - but this also goes for Debian GNU/Linux
and even Windows sometimes have problems with the switch.

But none of the laptops mentioned are cheap, so don't know if that
disqualifies this information.

Med Venlig Hilsen / Best Regards
Henrik Dige Semark

On 26-06-2018 10:50, Stuart Longland wrote:
> On 26/06/18 18:03, Marco van Hulten wrote:
>> In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
>> my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
>> friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).
> The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well.  The Lenovo ones?  Looking at
> the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both
> Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs.
>
> I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm
> the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it
> for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Stuart Longland]

On 26/06/18 18:03, Marco van Hulten wrote:
> In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
> my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
> friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).

The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well.  The Lenovo ones?  Looking at
the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both
Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs.

I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm
the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it
for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.
-- 
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)

I haven't lost my mind...
  ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Jeffrey Joshua Rollin]

ThinkPads use devices for which there are open source devices for everything, 
as far as I know. Still, hardware support in the BSDs lags Linux to varying 
degrees, because of slower hardware. (My 2015 E550, for example, still lacked 
full video support in FreeBSD RELEASE,  last time I looked.

In my experience, hardware support is actually better in OpenBSD than FreeBSD.

Jeff

⁣Sent from Blue ​

On 26 Jun 2018, 09:07, at 09:07, Marco van Hulten  wrote:
>Robert,
>
>On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote:
>> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
>> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
>> assume they will be opensource friendly.
>
>It could be fine, but I would not just assume this.  The pre-configured
>Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use,
>and are not included in OpenBSD.
>
>> I have short listed:1. Dell
>> Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision
>> 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv.
>
>I have a Dell Latitude E7470, which had serveral power management
>related issues in spring last year (e.g. hanging when waking up from
>suspend).  The worst of these issues disappeared because OpenBSD and
>Ubuntu (also installed as it is officially provided by my employer) got
>support for the hardware over the summer of 2017.  There is still the
>issue of an OpenBSD segfault when I attach/detach the laptop to/from my
>docking station.
>
>In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
>my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
>friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).
>
>Marco

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Marco van Hulten]

Robert,

On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote:
> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
> assume they will be opensource friendly.

It could be fine, but I would not just assume this.  The pre-configured
Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use,
and are not included in OpenBSD.

> I have short listed:1. Dell
> Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision
> 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv.

I have a Dell Latitude E7470, which had serveral power management
related issues in spring last year (e.g. hanging when waking up from
suspend).  The worst of these issues disappeared because OpenBSD and
Ubuntu (also installed as it is officially provided by my employer) got
support for the hardware over the summer of 2017.  There is still the
issue of an OpenBSD segfault when I attach/detach the laptop to/from my
docking station.

In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).

Marco

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Robert Gilaard]

 I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell laptops 
because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I assume they will 
be opensource friendly. I have short listed:1. Dell Precision 7520 ($1502)2. 
Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision 3520 ($1352)
Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv.
With kind regards,Robert
On Tuesday, 19 June 2018, 12:39:03 CEST, Rupert Gallagher 
 wrote:  
 
 I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every 
day, but is now falling apart, finally.

I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple 
inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: 
expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard 
keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.

I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
  

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Rupert Gallagher]

I looked into all of your comments, and I thank you for it. The 
coreboot/libreboot way was very tempting, but not competitive pricewise. I no 
longer have a desktop since the past century, spoiled by three MBPs, and need 
something robust, light, and performing. I spotted an offer for a new Lenovo 
T480, i5 series 8, 8GB RAM with an empty slot for easy upgrade, dual storage 
(!!!) with SSD on m.2 and conventional SATA, dual lithium battery for up to 4 
days of work without need to plug the power cord, a 14" display, fingerprint 
and smartcard reader, and a videocamera. Not happy about the clitmouse, and the 
meccanical mouse buttons. The best part is the cost: 999€ plus VAT. An MBP with 
similar specs costs north of 3000€, all soldered in. So long Apple, and hello 
Lenovo! :-)))

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:37, Rupert Gallagher  wrote:

> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every 
> day, but is now falling apart, finally. I would buy a new one if only Steve 
> Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are 
> meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, 
> soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for 
> standard connectors. I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with 
> it?

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Patrick Harper]

X200 is a bad idea, Core 2 Duos will never get microcode updates for Spectre 
bugs.

-- 
  Patrick Harper
  paia...@fastmail.com

On Thu, 21 Jun 2018, at 08:30, flipchan wrote:
> I got the x200 with libreboot and openbsd 
> 
> On June 19, 2018 10:47:24 AM UTC, Kaya Saman  wrote:
> >I couldn't say for the compatibility with OpenBSD though I have read 
> >other people running on them, but how about Lenovo??
> >
> >
> >I've got an X220 which I run a Linux distro on which I'm really happy 
> >with though the i7 CPU does seem to overheat for some reason, though I 
> >seem to have this issue with all laptops I've gone through?? Must be me
> >:-S
> >
> >- only system that never overheated was my old PowerBook G3 Firewire 
> >running Mac OS 9
> >
> >
> >I might be remembering wrong but I'm sure I've seen people on the list 
> >running OBSD on X-series Lenovo's so it might be worth a shot unless 
> >anyone else has better suggestions :-)
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >
> >Kaya
> >
> >
> >On 06/19/18 11:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
> >> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well,
> >every day, but is now falling apart, finally.
> >>
> >> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping
> >Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you
> >suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk,
> >bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
> >>
> >> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
> 
> -- 
> Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev

Re: New laptop recommendations

[flipchan]

I got the x200 with libreboot and openbsd 

On June 19, 2018 10:47:24 AM UTC, Kaya Saman  wrote:
>I couldn't say for the compatibility with OpenBSD though I have read 
>other people running on them, but how about Lenovo??
>
>
>I've got an X220 which I run a Linux distro on which I'm really happy 
>with though the i7 CPU does seem to overheat for some reason, though I 
>seem to have this issue with all laptops I've gone through?? Must be me
>:-S
>
>- only system that never overheated was my old PowerBook G3 Firewire 
>running Mac OS 9
>
>
>I might be remembering wrong but I'm sure I've seen people on the list 
>running OBSD on X-series Lenovo's so it might be worth a shot unless 
>anyone else has better suggestions :-)
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Kaya
>
>
>On 06/19/18 11:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
>> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well,
>every day, but is now falling apart, finally.
>>
>> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping
>Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you
>suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk,
>bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
>>
>> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

-- 
Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev

Re: New laptop recommendations

[bytevolcano]

In his defense, you did exactly that which you are accusing him of, not
providing "technical" arguments. "Oh look at this laptop which I've
apparently never used but I'd recommend you look into anyway."

"I hear they're quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the
factory." It sounds like pandering to ideology without technical merit.


As for my recommendation, I've had some decent success with Panasonic
Toughbooks (CF-30 and CF-31 so far). I'll see if I can bring up a dmesg
when I get a chance. They are physically sound units too.

Most stuff seems to work with 6.3 + syspatches on the CF-31 but I can't
work out how to disable the gestures (I don't seem to have a
"mouse.tp.tapping" variable when using wsconsctl(8)).


On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:19:55 -0700
Jordan Geoghegan  wrote:

> On 06/19/18 11:20, li...@wrant.com wrote:
> > Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:59:45 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan   
> >> Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're
> >> quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory.  
> > The pinnacle of bullshit talk, utter nonsense, no technical value at all.
> >
> >  
> You don't have to be a snarky prick about things-- I don't hear you 
> making any suggestions or providing any "technical" arguments or giving 
> reasons for how/why my suggestion is "utter nonsense".
> You want a dmesg? You want the stats on the laptop? I'm not your 
> secretary, you know how to Google. Don't be aggressive just for the sake 
> of being aggressive.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jordan
> 

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Thomas Levine]

I spoke with Todd Weaver at LibrePlanet about running OpenBSD on Purism.
I suggested that the company install a bunch of operating systems and
post dmesg, but I don't think they have done that yet.

If I remember correctly, he also said he would be happy to provide
a refurbished laptop to a developer for the purpose of confirming that
the hardware works well on OpenBSD.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Patrick Harper]

No drm support for Kaveri in OpenBSD 6.3. There is support in current now so 
6.4 should work better when it arrives.

-- 
  Patrick Harper
  paia...@fastmail.com

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 14:03, Johan Mellberg wrote:
> Hmm. I have that one and there’s something fishy with the graphics, when 
> I boot the installer (6.3) I just get “static” on the built in screen. 
> No problem with any other OS. I just tried booting OpenBSD as a test so 
> have not investigated further, but consider it a potential issue, it 
> might be just my specimen but then again, maybe not. 
> 
> Mvh, Johan
> —
> Smartphone. Ja... just det. 
> 
> > 20 juni 2018 kl. 21:36 skrev Patrick Harper :
> > 
> > HP EliteBook 745 G2?
> > 
> > -- 
> >  Patrick Harper
> >  paia...@fastmail.com
> > 
> >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 09:01, Thomas Frohwein wrote:
> >> No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or
> >> refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask
> >> yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g.
> >> with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a
> >> reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between
> >> manufacturer and you...
> >> 
> > 

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Johan Mellberg]

Hmm. I have that one and there’s something fishy with the graphics, when I boot 
the installer (6.3) I just get “static” on the built in screen. No problem with 
any other OS. I just tried booting OpenBSD as a test so have not investigated 
further, but consider it a potential issue, it might be just my specimen but 
then again, maybe not. 

Mvh, Johan
—
Smartphone. Ja... just det. 

> 20 juni 2018 kl. 21:36 skrev Patrick Harper :
> 
> HP EliteBook 745 G2?
> 
> -- 
>  Patrick Harper
>  paia...@fastmail.com
> 
>> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 09:01, Thomas Frohwein wrote:
>> No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or
>> refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask
>> yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g.
>> with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a
>> reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between
>> manufacturer and you...
>> 
> 

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Patrick Harper]

HP EliteBook 745 G2?

-- 
  Patrick Harper
  paia...@fastmail.com

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 09:01, Thomas Frohwein wrote:
> No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or
> refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask
> yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g.
> with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a
> reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between
> manufacturer and you...
> 

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Thomas Frohwein]

No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or
refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask
yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g.
with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a
reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between
manufacturer and you...

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Maximilian Pichler]

I'm quite happy with my Asus Zenbook 3 (UX390UA). It's thinner,
lighter and more powerful than the current MacBooks and costs about
1100 EUR now.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Rupert Gallagher  wrote:
> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every 
> day, but is now falling apart, finally.
>
> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple 
> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: 
> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard 
> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
>
> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Patrick Marchand]

You can get a pretty good refurbished 3th gen thinkpad x1 carbon under 900$.
I've baught two on ebay over the last year,

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Jordan Geoghegan]

On 06/19/18 11:20, li...@wrant.com wrote:

Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:59:45 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan 

Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're
quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory.

The pinnacle of bullshit talk, utter nonsense, no technical value at all.


You don't have to be a snarky prick about things-- I don't hear you 
making any suggestions or providing any "technical" arguments or giving 
reasons for how/why my suggestion is "utter nonsense".
You want a dmesg? You want the stats on the laptop? I'm not your 
secretary, you know how to Google. Don't be aggressive just for the sake 
of being aggressive.


Cheers,
Jordan

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Scott Bonds]

On 06/19/18 03:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote:


I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?



On 06/19, Jordan Geoghegan wrote:

Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're 
quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory.


They run OpenBSD fine with some caveats:

https://forums.puri.sm/t/openbsd-on-librem/1080

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 21:16, Scott Bonds  wrote:

> On 06/19, Jordan Geoghegan wrote:
>>Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're quite 
>>nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory!

> They run OpenBSD fine with some caveats: 
> https://forums.puri.sm/t/openbsd-on-libre

Very good with coreboot, but the cpu is too slow: an i3 of the 8-th generation 
is cheaper and faster.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[lists]

Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:59:45 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan 
> Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're 
> quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory.

The pinnacle of bullshit talk, utter nonsense, no technical value at all.

> Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:37:18 -0400 Rupert Gallagher 
> > I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me
> > well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally.
> >
> > I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping
> > Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make
> > you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small
> > disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard
> > connectors.
> >
> > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?  

Advertisements to resurrection crap, no dmesg, no hardware specification.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Jordan Geoghegan]

Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're 
quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory.



On 06/19/18 03:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote:

I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, 
but is now falling apart, finally.

I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple 
inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: 
expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard 
keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.

I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

Re: New laptop recommendations

[traveller]

I use 6.3 on my T450S. Works great. Also have installed easily on the Dell 
E7240 and E7440. I prefer the Thinkpad but the Dell is solid also. You can 
probably get one of each for under $1000. Likely you will want to replace the 
battery either way but all of these machines are available used quite 
reasonably and new batteries are available for all.
On Jun 19, 2018, 3:39 AM -0700, Rupert Gallagher , wrote:
> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every 
> day, but is now falling apart, finally.
>
> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple 
> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: 
> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard 
> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
>
> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Gilles Chehade]

I love my DELL Latitude E7240 :-)


June 19, 2018 1:01 PM, "Jeffrey Joshua Rollin"  wrote:

> Definitely second the ThinkPad recommendations. I have an X230i, bought used, 
> on which I currently
> run OpenBSD 6.3, and an E550 on which I've used OpenBSD in the past; both run 
> perfectly as of 6.2,
> except for the fingerprint reader on the X (although to be fair I haven't 
> tried that again
> recently).
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ⁣Sent from Blue ​
> 
> On 19 Jun 2018, 11:51, at 11:51, Daniel Gracia  wrote:
> 
>> I would opt for a Thinkpad. Actually working with a T460s; runs like a
>> charm. If you are looking for mobility, a T series should fit. If you
>> need
>> more horsepower take a look at P series.
>> 
>> Of course those are my preferences, YMMV!
>> 
>> Regards.
>> 
>> El mar., 19 jun. 2018 a las 12:41, Rupert Gallagher
>> ()
>> escribió:
>> 
>>> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well,
>> 
>> every
>>> day, but is now falling apart, finally.
>>> 
>>> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping
>> 
>> Apple
>>> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you
>> 
>> suffer:
>>> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad
>> 
>> keyboard
>>> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
>>> 
>>> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?


-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Peter N. M. Hansteen]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 06:37:18AM -0400, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
> 
> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

I myself have worn out a few thinkpads over the years, but my last couple of
laptops have been Clevo rebrands - local outfits tend to slap their own brands
on them, like Multicom in Norway[1] - a more recent model is at[2].

If you can live without the ThinkPad 'clitmouse' (as you probably can since
you're looking for a replacment for a Mac), try searching for "Clevo Notebook 
831"
which I think would leave you with something to spare out of your 1500 EUR.

- Peter

[1] https://bsdly.blogspot.com/2017/07/openbsd-and-modern-laptop.html
[2] 
https://www.multicom.no/multicom-talisa-u831-black-133/cat-p/c100559/p10642670

-- 
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Jeffrey Joshua Rollin]

Definitely second the ThinkPad recommendations. I have an X230i, bought used, 
on which I currently run OpenBSD 6.3, and an E550 on which I've used OpenBSD in 
the past; both run perfectly as of 6.2, except for the fingerprint reader on 
the X (although to be fair I haven't tried that again recently).

Jeff

⁣Sent from Blue ​

On 19 Jun 2018, 11:51, at 11:51, Daniel Gracia  wrote:
>I would opt for a Thinkpad. Actually working with a T460s; runs like a
>charm. If you are looking for mobility, a T series should fit. If you
>need
>more horsepower take a look at P series.
>
>Of course those are my preferences, YMMV!
>
>Regards.
>
>El mar., 19 jun. 2018 a las 12:41, Rupert Gallagher
>()
>escribió:
>
>> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well,
>every
>> day, but is now falling apart, finally.
>>
>> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping
>Apple
>> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you
>suffer:
>> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad
>keyboard
>> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
>>
>> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
>>

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Daniel Gracia]

I would opt for a Thinkpad. Actually working with a T460s; runs like a
charm. If you are looking for mobility, a T series should fit. If you need
more horsepower take a look at P series.

Of course those are my preferences, YMMV!

Regards.

El mar., 19 jun. 2018 a las 12:41, Rupert Gallagher ()
escribió:

> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every
> day, but is now falling apart, finally.
>
> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple
> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer:
> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard
> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.
>
> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
>

Re: New laptop recommendations

[Kaya Saman]

I couldn't say for the compatibility with OpenBSD though I have read 
other people running on them, but how about Lenovo??



I've got an X220 which I run a Linux distro on which I'm really happy 
with though the i7 CPU does seem to overheat for some reason, though I 
seem to have this issue with all laptops I've gone through?? Must be me :-S


- only system that never overheated was my old PowerBook G3 Firewire 
running Mac OS 9



I might be remembering wrong but I'm sure I've seen people on the list 
running OBSD on X-series Lenovo's so it might be worth a shot unless 
anyone else has better suggestions :-)



Regards,


Kaya


On 06/19/18 11:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote:

I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, 
but is now falling apart, finally.

I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple 
inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: 
expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard 
keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.

I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

New laptop recommendations

[Rupert Gallagher]

I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, 
but is now falling apart, finally.

I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple 
inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: 
expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard 
keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.

I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Chris Cappuccio]

Mihai Popescu [mih...@gmail.com] wrote:
> Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop.
> Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop.
> 

I was talking about the Panasonic _Toughbook_ which is definitely a laptop. 
The CF-C1 and CF-19MK3/MK4/MK5 models are all very portable. The CF-19 is
a bit rugged. My CF-C1 fans, even on very high hour units, are all fine,
the CF-19 has no fans at all. There are lots of other models and they are 
all pretty cheap once you get to 2012 or earlier models. Panasonic makes more
parts in-house than any other manufacturer, and they seem to be pretty high
quality. The cheap used stuff is a great match for me.

Chris

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Nathan Koch]

Thanks for all the support everyone. I'm weighing my options.

-Nate


On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 04:20:15PM -0500, Donald Allen wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Mihai Popescu  wrote:
> 
> > Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop.
> > Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop.
> >
> 
es> I think the folks *are* paying attention. For example:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toughbook-Notebook-Silver-CF-54A0001CM/dp/B00V8KG91A/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1478980140=8-6=toughbook+cf-54
> 
> >
> > Thanks.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Donald Allen]

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Mihai Popescu  wrote:

> Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop.
> Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop.
>

I think the folks *are* paying attention. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toughbook-Notebook-Silver-CF-54A0001CM/dp/B00V8KG91A/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1478980140=8-6=toughbook+cf-54

>
> Thanks.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Mihai Popescu]

Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop.
Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop.

Thanks.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Bryan C. Everly]

I picked up a Core 2 Duo Toughbook for $40 US on eBay a month or so back. I
had to spend another $9 to get an Intel WiFi card for it but it worked
right out of the box. With an older processor and only 4gb of RAM it isn't
a powerhouse dev machine, but for email, web, etc it works great. The wifi
has good antennas and quite a nice range.

To me that is a great example of what is wonderful about OpenBSD. The
community isn't afraid to get rid of or replace old code. That keeps the OS
light and performant. Any other operating system I have experienced
(windows, macOS, Solaris, OS/2, AmigaDOS, even Linux to a certain extent,
etc.) gets slower with each subsequent release on older hardware. Not so
with OpenBSD - in some cases it even gets faster.

As a software developer for the last 30 years, I totally get the trap. You
want to add your feature or fix your bug, and the complexity of the entire
system surrounding youmakes you worry about your change being too intrusive
and inadvertently breaking something else in the system. By being
courageous and deleting stuff you know is a problem, sure you might have
unintended side effects that you have to expend energy to fix, but you also
fight against that complexity demon that makes you increasingly more
nervous that you let inefficiencies develop and build over time.

Thank you again to everyone who has contributed over the years for your
hard work! We do genuinely appreciate it.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 9:04 AM  wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 07:25:11 -0600
> Chris Bennett  wrote:
>
> >
> > I also notice that Thinkpads and Toughbooks seem to be the preferred
> > choices for a cheaper laptop. I need a newer laptop too, so I will
> > look into those on ebay.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Chris Bennett
> >
>
> Toughbooks, when new, are definitely not cheap. Even when second-hand,
> they are probably a little more expensive than their Thinkpad
> counterparts. OpenBSD has a habit of working very well on older
> ThinkPads.
>
> Not that it's a bad thing though, you do get what you pay for. The
> price difference is significant though, and boils down to the fact that
> one brand is a solid, rugged machine built for field use, and how a
> laptop should be anyway, and the other brand is a cheap Chinese
> product, which relies upon shoddy and questionable quality control and
> business practices.
>
> For a second-hand Toughbook to be very cheap, it is usually almost a
> decade old. However, a new Toughbook CF-31 will work around 90% well
> with OpenBSD, though I am not sure about the optional GPS or HSPA modem.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 07:46:30AM -0600, Jordon wrote:

> > On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:36 AM, Stefan Sperling  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote:
> >> WiFi Just Works!
> >
> >> iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a,
> >> msi
> >
> > Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one.
> > Then wifi should work even better ;-)
> 
> Wow.  I just looked up if_iwm.c on the web-cvs - you’ve been busy!
> 
> I am willing to run the latest snapshot (I did have it installed on this new
> laptop for a little while) but I have one question.  I seem to remember
> running a latest snapshot almost a year ago when I submitted support for a PCI
> serial card (puc device).  When I was running current, there were no packages.
> What is the official way to install packages when running current?  Build them
> from ports?
> 
> Also, playing with the new vmm would be fun too, so there’s another reason
> to run current…
> 
> Jordon

For amd64 and other fast arches, most of the time, packages snaps
*are* available at

http://your-mirror/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages/`machine -a`/

-Otto

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[bytevolcano]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 07:25:11 -0600
Chris Bennett  wrote:

> 
> I also notice that Thinkpads and Toughbooks seem to be the preferred
> choices for a cheaper laptop. I need a newer laptop too, so I will
> look into those on ebay.
> 
> Thanks
> Chris Bennett
> 

Toughbooks, when new, are definitely not cheap. Even when second-hand,
they are probably a little more expensive than their Thinkpad
counterparts. OpenBSD has a habit of working very well on older
ThinkPads.

Not that it's a bad thing though, you do get what you pay for. The
price difference is significant though, and boils down to the fact that
one brand is a solid, rugged machine built for field use, and how a
laptop should be anyway, and the other brand is a cheap Chinese
product, which relies upon shoddy and questionable quality control and
business practices.

For a second-hand Toughbook to be very cheap, it is usually almost a
decade old. However, a new Toughbook CF-31 will work around 90% well
with OpenBSD, though I am not sure about the optional GPS or HSPA modem.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Jordon]

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:36 AM, Stefan Sperling  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote:
>> WiFi Just Works!
>
>> iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a,
>> msi
>
> Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one.
> Then wifi should work even better ;-)

Wow.  I just looked up if_iwm.c on the web-cvs - you’ve been busy!

I am willing to run the latest snapshot (I did have it installed on this new
laptop for a little while) but I have one question.  I seem to remember
running a latest snapshot almost a year ago when I submitted support for a PCI
serial card (puc device).  When I was running current, there were no packages.
What is the official way to install packages when running current?  Build them
from ports?

Also, playing with the new vmm would be fun too, so there’s another reason
to run current…

Jordon

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Chris Bennett]

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 12:36:54PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote:
> > WiFi Just Works!
> 
> > iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a,
> > msi
> 
> Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one.
> Then wifi should work even better ;-)
> 

I consistently have problems with weak WiFi signals wherever I'm at.
For one of my desktops, I solve that problem by using a huge antenna I
got years ago while I had a cheap WiFi repeater.

However, this doesn't solve my problem when using a laptop.

Are there any good solutions out there that will work with a laptop?
My first thought would be a USB device since I can run a powered hub,
but a card could also work, though they tend to cook themselves rather
quickly since there is no good cooling method.

I am assuming I will need to add a large antenna also, but maybe not?


I also notice that Thinkpads and Toughbooks seem to be the preferred
choices for a cheaper laptop. I need a newer laptop too, so I will look
into those on ebay.

Thanks
Chris Bennett

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Bryan C. Everly]

I have been running a Thinkpad x220 for some time until it died. I replaced
it with an x230 (my RAM, hard drive and mSATA drive were compatible so I
moved them) and I must say it is a much better machine. Everything
literally works out of the box and the build quality was much better.

I am now waiting on an X1 Carbon (4th generation) to arrive that I will be
moving to. I know we haven't caught up with Skylake so I won't have suspend
or Intel graphics but I have confidence we will get there eventually. I'll
put up a blog post detailing my installation experience when I get it (
http://functionallyparanoid.com).

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:46 AM Stefan Sperling  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote:
> > WiFi Just Works!
>
> > iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev
> 0x3a,
> > msi
>
> Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one.
> Then wifi should work even better ;-)

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Stefan Sperling]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote:
> WiFi Just Works!

> iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a,
> msi

Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one.
Then wifi should work even better ;-)

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[jordon]

> On Nov 9, 2016, at 11:47 PM, Nathan Koch  wrote:
>
> Greetings Fair BSD Wizards,
> I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for
myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably
fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and secure. If you have any
recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me
know.
>
> Thank you.
> Nate
>
> 
> Sailing the South Saskatchewan.
>

I just (as in yesterday) got a ThinkPad x260.  I saw that FreeBSD had pretty
good support for it and I got it with the intent of running FreeBSD or OpenBSD
on it.  I went with the i5-6300U, 1080p screen, extra large battery (this
model has an internal battery AND an external one - the extra large option
sticks out a bit and tilts up the keyboard, which is nice), and minimal RAM
and HDD (cheaper to upgrade later).  I did up the RAM to 16GB right away and
will soon replace the 500GB spinning rust with an SSD.

FreeBSD and TrueOS both work pretty good (TrueOS is just too bloated/slow for
my taste),  but I think OpenBSD might be the winner for what stays on it.
WiFi Just Works!  Sleep/Resume almost works (sleeps just fine on close but
screen doesn’t wake up on open - but I can ssh into it after the failed
wake).  The trackpad is… pretty rough… but I’m used to a trackpad on a
Mac, which is by far the best of any computer I’ve ever used.

Anyway, I am just searching for the tiniest window manager that does what I
need (currently exploring cwm, as I like what I’ve read about it) and I
think I have my portable coding machine.  My ‘workflow’ is emacs in
terminal, git, llvm, and a quick web browser.  Once llvm is officially
supported in base, I will be even happier!

Anyway, here is the dmesg of it exactly as I got ig except I removed the 4GB
RAM and added a (cheaper) upgrade to 16GB myself:

OpenBSD 6.0 (GENERIC.MP) #2319: Tue Jul 26 13:00:43 MDT 2016
dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP
real mem = 16546209792 (15779MB)
avail mem = 16040271872 (15297MB)
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.8 @ 0xd7bfd000 (65 entries)
bios0: vendor LENOVO version "R02ET50W (1.23 )" date 09/20/2016
bios0: LENOVO 20F6CTO1WW
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP TCPA SSDT SSDT TPM2 UEFI SSDT SSDT ECDT HPET APIC MCFG
SSDT SSDT DBGP DBG2 BOOT BATB SSDT SSDT MSDM ASF! FPDT UEFI
acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S4) SLPB(S3) IGBE(S4) EXP8(S4) XHCI(S3)
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpiec0 at acpi0
acpihpet0 at acpi0: 2399 Hz
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2293.34 MHz
cpu0:
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX
,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT
,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,LONG,LAHF,ABM,3DNOWP,PERF,ITS
C,FSGSBASE,SGX,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM,MPX,RDSEED,ADX,SMAP,C
LFLUSHOPT,PT,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0
mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges
cpu0: apic clock running at 23MHz
cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.1.2.4.1.1.1, IBE
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2294.63 MHz
cpu1:
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX
,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT
,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,LONG,LAHF,ABM,3DNOWP,PERF,ITS
C,FSGSBASE,SGX,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM,MPX,RDSEED,ADX,SMAP,C
LFLUSHOPT,PT,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu1: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu1: smt 0, core 1, package 0
cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor)
cpu2: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2294.63 MHz
cpu2:
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX
,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT
,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,LONG,LAHF,ABM,3DNOWP,PERF,ITS
C,FSGSBASE,SGX,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM,MPX,RDSEED,ADX,SMAP,C
LFLUSHOPT,PT,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu2: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu2: smt 1, core 0, package 0
cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 3 (application processor)
cpu3: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2294.63 MHz
cpu3:
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Carl Trachte]

Off topic (durability):  I've owned a couple X220 ThinkPads now and I
don't disagree with the Cappuccino report - fans are a real weak point
on the ThinkPad - and they break at the worst times - usually when
travelling.  Basically, the laptop get squished a little, the fan
stops working, and you have to get a new one.

Other little stuff:  the ThinkPad lettering forward of the keyboard
just fell off one day - now there's a bare metal spot on the black.
While the ThinkPad's are known for durability, the X220 is a little
weak in that area.  I love the little screen.  I love even more that
everything works so well under OpenBSD.  I just can't afford to have
the one computer I take on a trip poop itself at the wrong time.  My 2
cents.

I am tempted to give the Toughbook a shot now.  Thanks for the heads up.


On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Chris Cappuccio  wrote:
> harry666t [harry6...@gmail.com] wrote:
>> On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian  wrote:
>> > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going
also.
>>
>> Typing this on a Thinkpad X200s, running 6.0, very very happy with it.
>
> I consistently get junk when I buy old Thinkpads. Usually the problems are
not major, but I started buying Panasonic Toughbook CF-C1A (1st gen intel) and
CF-C1B (2nd gen intel) laptops which are equivalent to X200 and X220. I have
several units on ebay now for $60 USD which have 14,000 hours (basically on
since they were manufactured) and they look and act brand new. I also started
getting CF-19 MK3 (Core 2 duo) and CF-19 MK4 (i5) for field use. They are
basically rock-solid, even with 8000 hours. Not every single used one has been
great, but most have been very, very good...

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Chris Cappuccio]

harry666t [harry6...@gmail.com] wrote:
> On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian  wrote:
> > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also.
> 
> Typing this on a Thinkpad X200s, running 6.0, very very happy with it.

I consistently get junk when I buy old Thinkpads. Usually the problems are not 
major, but I started buying Panasonic Toughbook CF-C1A (1st gen intel) and 
CF-C1B (2nd gen intel) laptops which are equivalent to X200 and X220. I have 
several units on ebay now for $60 USD which have 14,000 hours (basically on 
since they were manufactured) and they look and act brand new. I also started 
getting CF-19 MK3 (Core 2 duo) and CF-19 MK4 (i5) for field use. They are 
basically rock-solid, even with 8000 hours. Not every single used one has been 
great, but most have been very, very good...

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Stefan Sperling]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:20:47PM +0100, Robert wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:21:54 +0100
> harry666t  wrote:
> 
> > On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian  wrote:
> > > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going 
> > > also.  
> 
> +1
> 
> I'm using a T400 (14.1"), or when travelling an X61s.
> 
> I really don't see the need for the latest & greatest & blobiest model... 
> everything works on those old Thinkpads.
> Especially the X61s with an SSD and a smaller battery is close to 1kg ("2 
> pounds"), easy to carry and sturdy.
> 
> Since those models are rather old you should get them pretty cheap. So buy a 
> couple, in case you need spare parts. You probably will have to replace the 
> battery, but there are lots of good/bad suppliers on the market.
> 
> /Robert
> 

By the way, I am looking for a "4 cell slim" battery for my x60s.
Aka "ThinkPad Battery 31 (4 Cell) 40Y6999"
Pictured here: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-62401

I once had a battery like this but it died.
These only work in x60s/x61s and seem to have become rare nowadays.
Most suppliers of compatible batteries seem to sell the "4 cell enhanced"
version only (sometimes wrongly advertised as 40Y6999), which is much
thicker and not an exact fit for the x60s's battery slot.

If anyone knows where I could get one, please let me know :-)

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Robert]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:21:54 +0100
harry666t  wrote:

> On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian  wrote:
> > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going 
> > also.  

+1

I'm using a T400 (14.1"), or when travelling an X61s.

I really don't see the need for the latest & greatest & blobiest model... 
everything works on those old Thinkpads.
Especially the X61s with an SSD and a smaller battery is close to 1kg ("2 
pounds"), easy to carry and sturdy.

Since those models are rather old you should get them pretty cheap. So buy a 
couple, in case you need spare parts. You probably will have to replace the 
battery, but there are lots of good/bad suppliers on the market.

/Robert

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[harry666t]

On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian  wrote:
> Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also.

Typing this on a Thinkpad X200s, running 6.0, very very happy with it.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Brian]

Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also.


Brian


On 11/10/2016 4:34 PM, STeve Andre' wrote:

On 11/10/16 00:47, Nathan Koch wrote:

Greetings Fair BSD Wizards,
I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present 
for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and 
lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and 
secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits 
the prairies please let me know.


Thank you.
Nate


Sailing the South Saskatchewan.




I have used ThinkPads with great success:

 - T60p: everything worked

 - W500: everything worked

 - W541: camera and SDHC cards wern't working last time I checked,
   which was a while ago.  Everything else is fine.  Well, maybe
   the docking adaptor is still problematic.

 - A31p: which is now long obsolete, but it worked well.

W500's can be had on ebay in the $280 class range, then add extra mem
and a large disk, etc.

--STeve Andre

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[STeve Andre']

On 11/10/16 00:47, Nathan Koch wrote:

Greetings Fair BSD Wizards,
I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for 
myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably 
fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and secure. If you have any 
recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know.

Thank you.
Nate


Sailing the South Saskatchewan.




I have used ThinkPads with great success:

 - T60p: everything worked

 - W500: everything worked

 - W541: camera and SDHC cards wern't working last time I checked,
   which was a while ago.  Everything else is fine.  Well, maybe
   the docking adaptor is still problematic.

 - A31p: which is now long obsolete, but it worked well.

W500's can be had on ebay in the $280 class range, then add extra mem
and a large disk, etc.

--STeve Andre

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Stefan Sperling]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 11:47:52PM -0600, Nathan Koch wrote:
> Greetings Fair BSD Wizards,
> I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for 
> myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. 
> Preferably fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and secure. If you have any 
> recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know.
> 
> Thank you.
> Nate

Public information about the degree of hardware support for some
specific machines is available in dmesg collections such as this one:
http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?fts=openbsd=dmesgd=index
You'll have to get familiar with reading a dmesg anyway if you
want to run OpenBSD on a machine of your own.

Researching dmesg archives also gives you an idea about what kind
of systems people are running OpenBSD on.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[bytevolcano]

I seem to be doing fine on an old Panasonic Toughbook. They can be
bought quite cheap if you don't mind them being several years old.
Having said that, if you want a laptop that is "close to free", then
expect failures to be "close to free" also.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:47:52 -0600
Nathan Koch  wrote:

> Greetings Fair BSD Wizards,
> I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present
> for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and
> lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and
> secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits
> the prairies please let me know.
> 
> Thank you.
> Nate
> 
> 
> Sailing the South Saskatchewan. 

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Alex McWhirter]

I'm not sure if anything new is a good choice, particularly because of a lack 
of current GPU / WiFi drivers. I usually pick up something about a year or two 
old on refurb \ second hand market. Dell's business line (latitude / precision) 
have treated me well in the past. Just stick with Intel or and graphics.On Nov 
10, 2016 12:47 AM, Nathan Koch  wrote:
>
> Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, 
> I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for 
> myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. 
> Preferably fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and secure. If you have any 
> recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me 
> know. 
>
> Thank you. 
> Nate 
>
>  
> Sailing the South Saskatchewan. 

Laptop Recommendations?

[Nathan Koch]

Greetings Fair BSD Wizards,
I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for 
myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably 
fast, cheap (close to free),  light, and secure. If you have any 
recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know.

Thank you.
Nate


Sailing the South Saskatchewan. 

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Christopher Snell]

I'm still looking for a laptop.  Does anybody know of a laptop that
will do at least 1600x___ resolution and have rudimentary power
management (ie., I can pull the AC plug and the laptop does not lock
up)?

Chris

On 5/29/06, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel
  CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that
  Intel will release specs on these.  What is the future of laptop
  support for free Unicies?  Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered?
  Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops?

 umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely
 documented.  the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi,
 which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much
 support every est cpu at least basically.  the situation with wifi
 could be better, but if you download the firmware it works.

 you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of
 barely working is very different than most people's.

Intel is changing their ways.  They got seriously hurt by NVidia and
ATI taking over the video market, while simultaneously AMD hurt
them on the processor side.

The real enemy today is Nvidia (and ATI).

Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they
can to stay in the market.  It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is
benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines
benefits them, as it should).

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Graeme Neilson]

dell inspiron 8100

On 6/14/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm still looking for a laptop.  Does anybody know of a laptop that
 will do at least 1600x___ resolution and have rudimentary power
 management (ie., I can pull the AC plug and the laptop does not lock
 up)?

 Chris

 On 5/29/06, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel
CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell
 that
Intel will release specs on these.  What is the future of laptop
support for free Unicies?  Will SpeedStep ever be reverse
 engineered?
Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops?
  
   umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely
   documented.  the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi,
   which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much
   support every est cpu at least basically.  the situation with wifi
   could be better, but if you download the firmware it works.
  
   you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of
   barely working is very different than most people's.
 
  Intel is changing their ways.  They got seriously hurt by NVidia and
  ATI taking over the video market, while simultaneously AMD hurt
  them on the processor side.
 
  The real enemy today is Nvidia (and ATI).
 
  Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they
  can to stay in the market.  It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is
  benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines
  benefits them, as it should).

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Darrin Chandler]

On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:40:47PM -0600, Christopher Snell wrote:
 I'm still looking for a laptop.  Does anybody know of a laptop that
 will do at least 1600x___ resolution and have rudimentary power
 management (ie., I can pull the AC plug and the laptop does not lock
 up)?

If you want a big, wide screen and don't mind something that weighs as
much as a small car:

http://www.stilyagin.com/OpenBSD/Clevo-D900T.php

I need to update that, since more stuff works in 3.9, and yet more in
-current (Azalia, etc.)

You can pull the plug or have a power outage and it keeps going. Sleep
and suspend won't work, but if acpi gets far enough along...

There's also an AMD64 version for more $$$.

-- 
Darrin Chandler|  Phoenix BSD Users Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 17:46 -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
 Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they
 can to stay in the market.  It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is
 benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines
 benefits them, as it should).

In your opinion, has Intel changed enough so far to justify buying their
products for use on a computer which will run OpenBSD? (Sadly, it may
not matter much for one of my planned purchases, as the only barebones
laptop with something besides ATI or nVidious video chips I could find
is for AMD processors.)

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Ted Unangst]

On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel
CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that
Intel will release specs on these.  What is the future of laptop
support for free Unicies?  Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered?
Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops?


umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely
documented.  the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi,
which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much
support every est cpu at least basically.  the situation with wifi
could be better, but if you download the firmware it works.

you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of
barely working is very different than most people's.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Theo de Raadt]

 On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel
  CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that
  Intel will release specs on these.  What is the future of laptop
  support for free Unicies?  Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered?
  Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops?
 
 umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely
 documented.  the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi,
 which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much
 support every est cpu at least basically.  the situation with wifi
 could be better, but if you download the firmware it works.
 
 you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of
 barely working is very different than most people's.

Intel is changing their ways.  They got seriously hurt by NVidia and
ATI taking over the video market, while simultaneously AMD hurt
them on the processor side.

The real enemy today is Nvidia (and ATI).

Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they
can to stay in the market.  It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is
benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines
benefits them, as it should).

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Christopher Snell]

On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great.
The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works.  Right
now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs
2.5 pounds, it's very small.


It's a bummer for folks like me who depend on corporate purchasing to
get their laptops.  I feel lucky that my employer will at least listen
to my request to get Lenovo over Dell.  eBay is not going to be an
option for them.  So, me and every other purchaser of new equipment is
stuck with two options at the moment:

1) Buy an outdated laptop that can do 1024x768 (or similar) at best

2) Buy a modern laptop that can do 1440x900 but have no working
power management and have to deal with a laptop that locks up when the
power cord is unplugged.

It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel
CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that
Intel will release specs on these.  What is the future of laptop
support for free Unicies?  Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered?
Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops?

I've never felt more motivated to write Intel and give them my
corporate mouthful.

Chris

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Constantine A. Murenin]

On 26/05/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great.
 The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works.  Right
 now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs
 2.5 pounds, it's very small.

It's a bummer for folks like me who depend on corporate purchasing to
get their laptops.  I feel lucky that my employer will at least listen
to my request to get Lenovo over Dell.  eBay is not going to be an
option for them.  So, me and every other purchaser of new equipment is
stuck with two options at the moment:

1) Buy an outdated laptop that can do 1024x768 (or similar) at best

2) Buy a modern laptop that can do 1440x900 but have no working
power management and have to deal with a laptop that locks up when the
power cord is unplugged.

It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel
CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that
Intel will release specs on these.  What is the future of laptop
support for free Unicies?  Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered?
Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops?

I've never felt more motivated to write Intel and give them my
corporate mouthful.


Is R51 no longer being sold?

Or do laptops with 1.4K--1.8K USD MSRP made in the last few years have
no support for 1400x1050?

The situation with hardware does get worse in some respects (i.e. some
of it is now Defective By Design), but don't forget that OpenBSD and
other projects keep up with the reverse-engineering and implementing
new features like ACPI-support, so there is still some balance in the
efforts...

And by all means, write to Intel, IBM/Lenovo etc and tell them what
you think! :) Make a difference!

Cheers,
Constantine.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Greg Thomas]

On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Karsten McMinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio,
 acpi,
 atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the
 915GM.
 Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita.
 All
 that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held.

Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says:

1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported
2. I love my IBM laptop!!

I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great.
The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works.  Right
now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs
2.5 pounds, it's very small.  And it has the dell tri-metal case that's
very nice (i assume the ibm design are one of the strong attractors, dell
actually had a nice looking laptop with the c400, unlike ANY of their
current line-up)



Don't know about the C400 but I have a Dell D600 I bought new through
work awhile back for very cheap, and about 6 months ago I found an old
IBM T20 stuffed in a drawer.  The T20 has a PIII 350MHz CPU, the Dell
has a nice 1.6 GHz CPU in it, but I've given the Dell to my girlfriend
because it's a flimsy pile of junk.


From the experience of using this T20 my next laptop will be an

IBM/Lenovo.  I'll probably just look for something used since this one
has been abused at work and is still running strong.

Greg

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Srebrenko Sehic]

On 5/11/06, Didier Wiroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello,
I'm currently using a thinkpad 60s
Dual booting between xp and current, yes currently still required ;-)) see below

Here is a short rundown:
a) Performance is nice with bsd kernel, performance is degraded with bsd.mp
b) sound chip currently not supported
c) intel wireless lan currently not supported
d) speedstep currently not supported
e) power management currently not supported


I guess you luck is changing. Your soundchip shoud be supported in -current.
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=azalia

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Constantine A. Murenin]

On 11/05/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).


[...]

On 11/05/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I just wanted to thank everyone for their input.  Although I won't buy
one immediately, I'll probably get a T43 as they are still available
if you look.

Maybe support for the ACPI/audio/wifi in the T60 will be better by the
time I'm getting ready to buy so I can have the nice SATA drive and
dual-core CPU.  :)


Here is the magic link for usstudents:

http://www.ibm.com/shop/ibmdeals/usstudents

They have quite some nice discounts, and they outsource their sales
team to Canada (or at least they did so with my purchase 2 years ago).
:)

Enjoy,
Constantine.

Panic question + RE: Laptop recommendations

[Didier Wiroth]

Please try compiling a GENERIC kernel from a -current src tree but 
uncommenting the azalia device in the config..

Almost ... ;-)
Azalia causes a panic during the boot process, right after loading the azalia 
driver.
Here is some output (rewritten by hand) as the thinkbad X60s has no serial port:

Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02: irq 11
azalia0: host: High Definition Audio rev. 1.0
azalia0: codec: Analog Devices AD1981HD (rev.2.0)
azalia0: codec: High Definition Audio rev. 1.0
uvm_fault (0xd06f3720, 0x0, 0, 1) - e
kernel: page fault trap, code=0
Stopped at 0:uvm_fault(0xd06f3720, 0x0, 0, 1) - e
kernel: page fault trap, code=0
Stopped atdb_read_bytes+0x14: movb0(%edx), %al

ddbps
PID   PPID   PGRP   UID   S   FLAGSWAIT COMMAND
*0-10 0 7   0x80204 swapper

For trace please  see the question below:
(I'm a beginner, so please apologize)
How do you get a kernel panic output to the console without a serial port?
I have tried with an USB-Serial Controller (here a snip, concerning the 
controller):
ublcom0 at uhub2 port1
uplcom0: Prolific Technology Inc. USB-Serial Controller, rev 1.10/3.00, addr 2
ucom0 at uplcom0

While booting I tried at the boot prompt:
set tty ucom0

I get: ucom0 not a console device

After the OS is loaded, I can use without problems a dump terminal

Regards
Didier

P.S here a /var/run/dmesg.boot (without azalia compiled) + USB-serial 
Controller connected

OpenBSD 3.9-current (GENERIC) #728: Tue May  9 00:02:22 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU L2400 @ 1.66GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.67 GHz
cpu0: 
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2
cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 600 MHz (1004 mV): unknown EST cpu, no changes possible
real mem  = 2137419776 (2087324K)
avail mem = 1942142976 (1896624K)
using 4256 buffers containing 106975232 bytes (104468K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(b6) BIOS, date 03/13/06, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd690, 
SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (67 entries)
bios0: LENOVO 17025PG
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfd620/0x9e0
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfdea0/272 (15 entries)
pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 (Intel 82371FB ISA rev 0x00)
pcibios0: PCI bus #6 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xe400! 0xce800/0x1000 0xcf800/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 
0xe/0x1
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM MCH rev 0x03
vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03: aperture at 
0xee10, size 0x800
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 not configured
ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/1000MT (82573L) rev 0x00: irq 11, 
address 00:16:d3:21:4b:b6
ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev 0x02 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 not configured
ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci3 at ppb2 bus 3
ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci4 at ppb3 bus 4
uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0
uhub1 at usb1
uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb2 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0
uhub2 at usb2
uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb3 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0
uhub3 at usb3
uhub3: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb4 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
uhub4 at usb4
uhub4: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub4: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered
ppb4 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI rev 0xe2
pci5 at ppb4 bus 5
cbb0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 Ricoh 5C476 CardBus rev 0xb4: irq 11
Ricoh 5C552 Firewire rev 0x09 at pci5 dev 0 function 1 not configured
Ricoh 5C822 SD/MMC rev 0x18 at pci5 dev 0 function 2 not configured
cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0
cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 6 device 

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Karsten McMinn]

On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says:

 1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported
 2. I love my IBM laptop!!


hold a ibm and a dell side by side and you'll answer that question. Yes,
I have a dell inspiron also.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Samurai Chef]

On 5/11/06, Roger Neth Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
  I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated
  that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization
  software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB.  Also, I'm
  under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom
  adapters under the Airport Express name.  I could be wrong though.  I
  was just wondering if that had improved any.
 snip

 The Broadcom thing still applies.  No drivers for airport.

 --Bryan


Hello List,

I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this.

Doesn't this hurt the project? : (

Or are they just generous?

http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

rogern

John 3:16





I contacted the seller and asked Is this the full CD set with
stickers, or copies of the CD's?

This is the response I got: These cds are copies of the official 3 cd
set. All cds are verified by test installations of the product. The
official 3 CD set is available from www.openbsd.org for $45+$4
shipping and handling.

To answer the question, Does this hurt the project?  I respond, it
doesn't help.

eBay has strict policies about the illegal selling of copywrite
protected items, and this qualifies.  just go to the auction, and at
the bottom is a link that reads Report this Item.  It infringes on
the copyright of Theo de Raadt.  IIRC, three strikes and you're out on
ebay.

Jim

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Roger Neth Jr]

On 5/12/06, Samurai Chef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 5/11/06, Roger Neth Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  snip
   I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated
   that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization
   software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB.  Also, I'm
   under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom
   adapters under the Airport Express name.  I could be wrong though.  I
   was just wondering if that had improved any.
  snip
 
  The Broadcom thing still applies.  No drivers for airport.
 
  --Bryan
 
 
 Hello List,

 I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this.

 Doesn't this hurt the project? : (

 Or are they just generous?

 
http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 rogern

 John 3:16




I contacted the seller and asked Is this the full CD set with
stickers, or copies of the CD's?

This is the response I got: These cds are copies of the official 3 cd
set. All cds are verified by test installations of the product. The
official 3 CD set is available from www.openbsd.org for $45+$4
shipping and handling.

To answer the question, Does this hurt the project?  I respond, it
doesn't help.

eBay has strict policies about the illegal selling of copywrite
protected items, and this qualifies.  just go to the auction, and at
the bottom is a link that reads Report this Item.  It infringes on
the copyright of Theo de Raadt.  IIRC, three strikes and you're out on
ebay.

Jim



Hello Jim,

Thanks for investigating this more diligently than I had done. I went
ahead and reported this item.

rogern

John 3:16

Laptop recommendations

[rjn]

Hi all,

I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
installed.

I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
the macbook pro?

Thanks,
RJ

--
em: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty
large corporation
Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you...
-- Slashdot

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Timo Schoeler]

thus rjn spake:

Hi all,

I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
installed.

I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
the macbook pro?


after more than 15 years in apple business, after many years now (since 
jobs came back) of declining quality of their products (there's almost 
no series without a glitch which appears in all machines of that 
appropriate series) i'd say: IBM, definitely.


--
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
ISP | POWER  PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services
GPG Key fingerprint = B5F6 68A4 EC45 C309 6770  38C4 50E8 2740 9E0C F20A

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Jason Crawford]

On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi all,

I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
installed.

I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
the macbook pro?

Thanks,
RJ


The official page for compatible laptops can be found here:
http://www.openbsd.org/i386-laptop.html

Re: Laptop recommendations

[rjn]

On 5/11/06, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

to be when I first heard about it). If you search the archives you'll
see dmesgs from the new macs.


I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated
that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization
software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB.  Also, I'm
under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom
adapters under the Airport Express name.  I could be wrong though.  I
was just wondering if that had improved any.


See http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html for a fuller list of options.


Likewise, the laptop page ( http://www.openbsd.org/i386-laptop.html )
has some info about a T43 and a Z60m.  However, searches of the misc@
archives suggest the newer *60 series generally don't work well with
OpenBSD.  I would of course be careful to order a laptop with an intel
wifi adapter.

On 5/11/06, Timo Schoeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

appropriate series) i'd say: IBM, definitely.


So, any recommendations per specific models?  I was looking at the Z
and T series...

Thanks,
RJ

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Aaron Glenn]

On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
the macbook pro?



A quick search of the archives will show you a number of OpenBSD
developers currently run with the X40 model. That being said, I have a
T60p on order, but I wont be running OpenBSD on it.

aaron.glenn

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Timo Schoeler]

thus rjn spake:

On 5/11/06, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

to be when I first heard about it). If you search the archives you'll
see dmesgs from the new macs.


I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated
that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization
software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB.  Also, I'm
under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom
adapters under the Airport Express name.  I could be wrong though.  I
was just wondering if that had improved any.


See http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html for a fuller list of options.


Likewise, the laptop page ( http://www.openbsd.org/i386-laptop.html )
has some info about a T43 and a Z60m.  However, searches of the misc@
archives suggest the newer *60 series generally don't work well with
OpenBSD.  I would of course be careful to order a laptop with an intel
wifi adapter.

On 5/11/06, Timo Schoeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

appropriate series) i'd say: IBM, definitely.


So, any recommendations per specific models?  I was looking at the Z
and T series...


quality issues are vendor dependant in this case...

--
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
ISP | POWER  PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services
GPG Key fingerprint = B5F6 68A4 EC45 C309 6770  38C4 50E8 2740 9E0C F20A

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Bryan Irvine]

snip

I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated
that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization
software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB.  Also, I'm
under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom
adapters under the Airport Express name.  I could be wrong though.  I
was just wondering if that had improved any.

snip

The Broadcom thing still applies.  No drivers for airport.

--Bryan

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Roger Neth Jr]

On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip
 I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated
 that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization
 software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB.  Also, I'm
 under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom
 adapters under the Airport Express name.  I could be wrong though.  I
 was just wondering if that had improved any.
snip

The Broadcom thing still applies.  No drivers for airport.

--Bryan



Hello List,

I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this.

Doesn't this hurt the project? : (

Or are they just generous?

http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

rogern

John 3:16

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Didier Wiroth]

Hello,
I'm currently using a thinkpad 60s
Dual booting between xp and current, yes currently still required ;-)) see below

Here is a short rundown:
a) Performance is nice with bsd kernel, performance is degraded with bsd.mp
b) sound chip currently not supported
c) intel wireless lan currently not supported
d) speedstep currently not supported
e) power management currently not supported

Unfortunately it is not yet fully supported under openbsd but this is the best 
laptop I have ever had! 
Every day I have a look at the commited changes, hope and pray that support is 
added. ;-))
Anyway ... X runs really nice and as mentionned previously performance (cpu + 
disk) is really nice.

Here is my dmesg:
OpenBSD 3.9-current (GENERIC) #728: Tue May  9 00:02:22 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU L2400 @ 1.66GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.67 GHz
cpu0: 
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2
cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1000 MHz (1244 mV): unknown EST cpu, no changes 
possible
real mem  = 2137419776 (2087324K)
avail mem = 1942142976 (1896624K)
using 4256 buffers containing 106975232 bytes (104468K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(31) BIOS, date 03/13/06, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd690, 
SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (67 entries)
bios0: LENOVO 17025PG
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfd620/0x9e0
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfdea0/272 (15 entries)
pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 (Intel 82371FB ISA rev 0x00)
pcibios0: PCI bus #6 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xe400! 0xce800/0x1000 0xcf800/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 
0xe/0x1
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM MCH rev 0x03
vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03: aperture at 
0xee10, size 0x800
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 not configured
ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/1000MT (82573L) rev 0x00: irq 11, 
address 00:16:d3:21:4b:b6
ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev 0x02 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 not configured
ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci3 at ppb2 bus 3
ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02
pci4 at ppb3 bus 4
uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0
uhub1 at usb1
uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb2 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0
uhub2 at usb2
uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb3 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0
uhub3 at usb3
uhub3: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11
usb4 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
uhub4 at usb4
uhub4: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub4: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered
ppb4 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI rev 0xe2
pci5 at ppb4 bus 5
cbb0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 Ricoh 5C476 CardBus rev 0xb4: irq 11
Ricoh 5C552 Firewire rev 0x09 at pci5 dev 0 function 1 not configured
Ricoh 5C822 SD/MMC rev 0x18 at pci5 dev 0 function 2 not configured
cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0
cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 6 device 0 cacheline 0x0, lattimer 0xb0
pcmcia0 at cardslot0
ichpcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel 82801GBM LPC rev 0x02: PM disabled
pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 1 Intel 82801GB IDE rev 0x02: DMA, channel 0 
configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility
pciide0: channel 0 disabled (no drives)
pciide0: channel 1 ignored (disabled)
pciide1 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 Intel 82801GBM AHCI SATA rev 0x02: DMA, 
channel 0 wired to native-PCI, channel 1 wired to native-PCI
pciide1: using irq 11 for native-PCI interrupt
wd0 at pciide1 channel 0 drive 0: HTS541010G9SA00
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 95396MB, 195371568 sectors
wd0(pciide1:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5
ichiic0 at pci0 dev 31 function 3 Intel 82801GB SMBus rev 0x02: irq 11
iic0 at ichiic0
isa0 at ichpcib0
isadma0 at isa0
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using 

Re: Laptop recommendations

[STeve Andre']

On Thursday 11 May 2006 15:21, rjn wrote:
 Hi all,

 I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
 In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
 considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
 I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
 installed.

 I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
 the macbook pro?

 Thanks,
 RJ

As Jason already mentioned, look at the laptop page.  I'm not sure
my ThinkPad, an A31p is on that list.  They aren't new, but you can
get one in the $700 range now, and they're perhaps the best laptop
IBM made.  You can have three disks in it, too.  I've had mine for
three years now and the older A30p before that.  Everything but
bluetooth, firewire and the cough winmodem works wonderfully.
The sound on the A31p is fantastic too, if that matters to you.

--STeve Andre'

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Andreas Maus]

Hi RJ.

I would recommend IBM/Lenovo.
OpenBSD 3.9 works out of the box including (but not limited to ;)
suspend, buttons, ... on my IBM X40.

After a hard disk error on my Mac PowerBook (ppc architecture)
I discovered that the support from Mac is really sh*t.

Having a choice between IBM/Lenovo I strongly recommend an IBM/Lenovo
notebook. But check http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html .

HTH,

Andreas.

On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi all,

I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
installed.

I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
the macbook pro?

Thanks,
RJ

--
em: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty
large corporation
Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you...
-- Slashdot

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Maximiliano G. Vidal]

As Jason already mentioned, look at the laptop page.  I'm not sure
my ThinkPad, an A31p is on that list.  They aren't new, but you can
get one in the $700 range now, and they're perhaps the best laptop
IBM made.  You can have three disks in it, too.  I've had mine for
three years now and the older A30p before that.  Everything but
bluetooth, firewire and the cough winmodem works wonderfully.
The sound on the A31p is fantastic too, if that matters to you.



the a31p represents the meaning of happiness.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Karsten McMinn]

 On Thursday 11 May 2006 15:21, rjn wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
  In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
  considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
  I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
  installed.
 
  I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
  the macbook pro?


z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio,
acpi,
atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the
915GM.
Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita.
All
that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Andre]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On Behalf Of Roger Neth Jr
 Sent: 11 May 2006 10:52 PM
 To: OpenBSD general usage list
 Subject: Re: Laptop recommendations
 
 On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  snip
   I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read 
 indicated 
   that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels 
   virtualization software, but not natively due to hang 
 while probing 
   USB.  Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless 
 doesn't work as 
   they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express 
 name.  I could 
   be wrong though.  I was just wondering if that had improved any.
  snip
 
  The Broadcom thing still applies.  No drivers for airport.
 
  --Bryan
 
 
 Hello List,
 
 I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this.
 
 Doesn't this hurt the project? : (
 
 Or are they just generous?
 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743
360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
 rogern
 
 John 3:16
 
 

From their feedback page, it looks like they are not selling copies of the
installation cd's, but cds with the cdXX.iso images... 

-Andre

Re: Laptop recommendations

[rjn]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their input.  Although I won't buy
one immediately, I'll probably get a T43 as they are still available
if you look.

Maybe support for the ACPI/audio/wifi in the T60 will be better by the
time I'm getting ready to buy so I can have the nice SATA drive and
dual-core CPU.  :)

Thanks,
RJ

On 5/11/06, Andreas Maus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi RJ.

I would recommend IBM/Lenovo.
OpenBSD 3.9 works out of the box including (but not limited to ;)
suspend, buttons, ... on my IBM X40.

After a hard disk error on my Mac PowerBook (ppc architecture)
I discovered that the support from Mac is really sh*t.

Having a choice between IBM/Lenovo I strongly recommend an IBM/Lenovo
notebook. But check http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html .

HTH,

Andreas.

On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
 In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
 considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
 I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
 installed.

 I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
 the macbook pro?

 Thanks,
 RJ

 --
 em: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty
 large corporation
 Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you...
 -- Slashdot






--
em: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim: dbhsibgeek
www: http://www.bellsouthpwp.net/r/j/rjnowling/

Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty
large corporation
Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you...
-- Slashdot

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Chris Cappuccio]

Karsten McMinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio,
 acpi,
 atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the
 915GM.
 Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita.
 All
 that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held.

Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says:

1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported
2. I love my IBM laptop!!

I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great.
The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works.  Right
now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs
2.5 pounds, it's very small.  And it has the dell tri-metal case that's
very nice (i assume the ibm design are one of the strong attractors, dell
actually had a nice looking laptop with the c400, unlike ANY of their
current line-up)

Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what 
it's worth.  And while their hardware support doesn't last long (unless it was
covered by a 3 year warranty or such), they do post detailed assembly/
disassembly manuals and the motherboards and such are easy to find.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[STeve Andre']

On Thursday 11 May 2006 19:22, Chris Cappuccio wrote:
 Karsten McMinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek
  bio, acpi,
  atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the
  915GM.
  Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a
  pita. All
  that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever
  held.

 Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says:

 1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported
 2. I love my IBM laptop!!

 I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great.
 The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works.  Right
 now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs
 2.5 pounds, it's very small.  And it has the dell tri-metal case that's
 very nice (i assume the ibm design are one of the strong attractors, dell
 actually had a nice looking laptop with the c400, unlike ANY of their
 current line-up)

 Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what
 it's worth.  And while their hardware support doesn't last long (unless it
 was covered by a 3 year warranty or such), they do post detailed assembly/
 disassembly manuals and the motherboards and such are easy to find.

Keep in mind Chris that its the latest ThinkPads that have lots of stuff
that doesn't yet work.  I think I'd rather have a T60 which doesn't entirely
work rather than some Dell thing that I know I'm going to have to do
open-heart surgery on to fix it.  Yes, you're right, parts are available
for Dell's and the manuals are there, but I really like my better built
ThinkPad.  And it has a better screen and keyboard.  Having worked inside
several different brands in the last couple of years, I prefer ThinkPads.

--STeve Andre'

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Sam Chill]

On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what
it's worth.

I have noticed the same thing. I have a Dell Latitude c600 which goes
for only a few hundred on ebay and works very well. Everything works
but the winmodem.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Graeme Neilson]

I have had no problems from my 8100 and it has been going for years
(touch wood!)

On 5/12/06, Sam Chill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what
 it's worth.
I have noticed the same thing. I have a Dell Latitude c600 which goes
for only a few hundred on ebay and works very well. Everything works
but the winmodem.

Re: Laptop recommendations

[Aaron Poffenberger]

rjn wrote:


Hi all,

I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall).
In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible.  I
considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro.  From what
I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows
installed.

I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and
the macbook pro?

Thanks,
RJ

From your most recent post it looks like you've settled on the T43 -- 
great choice!  Nevertheless I'm posting my recent X31-purchase 
experiences and thoughts for others who have the same general question.


I recently bought a new laptop to replace an aging TiBook.  I've 
generally had good luck with Powerbooks but wanted something that would 
work with OpenBSD out of the box.  I looked at the Dells, especially the 
c400 and c600, the Toshibas but finally decided to get a Thinkpad.  
There were several driving factors that drove me to the Thinkpad line.  
1) They're near bullet proof.  I have a friend who should be a 
professional product tester.  He drops, folds, spindles and mutilates 
every laptop he buys.  Only the Powerbooks and Thinkpads can keep up 
with him. 2) Best warranty bar none.  IBM/Lenovo build excellent 
products and back them with fantastic warranties.  3) Warranty support.  
IBM/Lenovo warranties are tied to the laptop.  You can buy or sell a 
Thinkpad and not worry about transferring the warranty.  Whoever own the 
laptop has only to pick up the phone and make a call.  Better, all new 
Lenovo's come with a 3-year standard warranty.  It's not the 
top-of-the-line, next-business-day warranty, but the upgrade is not 
expensive.  4) They're shockingly light across the whole Thinkpad range, 
from a low of about 2.8 lbs to 5.5 lbs (though that can easily be pushed 
way up with add ons).  5) Businesses by tons of them and after 2 - 4 
years dispose of them.  Check ebay and wonder at the number of used 
Thinkpads with anywhere from 6 - 12 months warranty typically left (I've 
seen even longer).


I wanted small and light primarily, Pentium 4m/Centrino with built-in 
wifi, gigabit ethernet and the option to add bluetooth (for when it's 
supported).  Initially I narrowed my choices down to a new or used X41 
(non-tablet) or the X40.  My backup choices were the T43 and the T60s.  
Very late in the game I found out about the X30 and from there found the 
X31.  What a revelation.  Small and light (12 and ~3.2 lbs without 
extras), gigE (most but not all models), built-in wifi ranging from 
802.11b to 802.11 a/b/g and of course bluetooth.  Even better, they go 
for between ~US$400 (no cd/dvd add-on) to ~US$1000 (everything, often 
including an extra battery) and frequently have some warranty left on 
them.  Best - 2.5 hard drive.  I've used laptops with 4200 rpm hard 
drives and have not been happy with the performance.  I imagine the 
X40/41 1.8 4200 rpm drives perform better than the old 2.5 4200 rpm 
drives of the past due to large caches but nothing like a 5400 or 7200 
rpm drive.  That's not to mention that the 1.8 drives just won't scale 
as fast in storage density, though for me that's just not a big deal.  
This is a *portable*, not a desktop replacement.


I found a pretty good deal on ebay.  I got an X31 with a 1.6 ghz Pentium 
4m, 512 MB ram, USB 2.0, firewire, pc-card and pcmcia slots, crappy 40 
MB 4200 drive (promptly replaced), internal modem, power adapter and 
battery that still fully charges and runs for hours, 802.11b wifi 
(upgrade, here I come) and an IBM next-business-day warranty good until 
February of next year.  I got it for US$611.  The screen is perfect; the 
keyboard shows no wear -- even the spacebar -- all key labels are clean 
and new looking; the screen hinges are as tight and smooth as if brand 
new; the exterior had a few light scratches on the battery/sleep 
indicator and some minor scratches/scuffs on the bottom.  All in all, 
excellent condition.


My initial impressions were and continue to be that this is one nice 
laptop.  I'm really impressed with the usability of this laptop, 
especially for a 12.  The keyboard is one of the best I've used even 
compared to larger 14 and 15 laptops.  I was a bit hesitant to buy a 
laptop without a trackpad, thinking I'd hate the eraser head but have 
changed my mind.  I really like it.


Installing OpenBSD (3.8) went pretty quick.  Because it's an ultralight, 
the X31 doesn't come with an optical drive.  The BIOS, though, has 
excellent support for booting from USB optical or floppy drives.  
OpenBSD booted right up and the install was smooth.  The only challenge 
was in getting the drive setup correctly so I could hibernate the 
system.  The online help and man pages got me past that with little 
trouble.  X works without additional configuration unless you want 
anti-aliased fonts.  The three mouse buttons map perfectly to their 
expected uses.  I'm currently using the default fvwm window manager but 
may move to one of my