Re: New laptop recommendations
On 06/26/18 11:03, Marco van Hulten wrote: Robert, On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote: I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I assume they will be opensource friendly. It could be fine, but I would not just assume this. The pre-configured Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use, and are not included in OpenBSD. There are no proprietary drivers included in Ubuntu by default, as best as I can remember. There are two things that may lead you to believe that: 1. You can install proprietary drivers easily, if needed. There's even an option in the system settings menu: "Additional Drivers". 2. Contrary to Debian, from which it is derived, Ubuntu installation disks include binary "blobs", closed-source firmware needed by some hardware such as network cards. With Debian you are expected to copy the needed firmware to an additional floppy disk or USB drive, to be manually picked during installation. AFAIK some Dell Inspirons of "Ubuntu version" vintage come with a discrete Nvidia GPU in addition to the Intel one, but even those are shipped with the open-source drivers and it's up to the user to setup Bumblebee to support Nvidia Optimus. Would like to hear if things changed though! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: New laptop recommendations
Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:47:31 -0400 Rupert Gallagher > What crap is this? YOURS. What you put into a system is what you get from the same system..
Re: New laptop recommendations
Hi, Stuart Longland wrote: The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well. The Lenovo ones? Looking at the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs. that is true... the latest IBM heritage you can get is the T43, although already manufactured by Lenovo. Wonderful chassis, incredible hinges... and I have one running Ubuntu, une NetBSD. I run OpenBSD on a T60 with the hi-res screen and while it works very well as far as hardware supports, the chassis quality is already lesser. The bigger cousin, the T61 I have, already has nvidia and that is a nightmare: I couldn't get it useful on neither OpenBSD nor NetBSD so it is my FreeBSD tinker machine now, where I have to use the proprietary drivers (the opensources ones are available, but not up to it) then from there it goes up and down... I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at. I try to use my BSD boxen for every day use, although I always have a Windows machine at hand for the "stupid" work. I use X11 program on it and browse and use mail. One thing I never tried on any BSD since a long time is the use of a webcam: the only thing I use is Skype and it is quite hopeless. The OP asked for a MacBook Pro replacement: since the value of a Mac for me is now mostly MacOS (oh, sorry macOS) With OpenBSD many alterantives are interesting: besides the cited ThinkPads I have tried OpenBSD on a discarded hp ProBook 4530s... I need to use intel graphics instead of the Radeon, but it works very well. It used not too, but 6.2 and 6.3 brought an incredible improvement: sleep works, wireless, correct display brightness: quick and responsive! The machine has a very decent keyboard too and the i5 is fine also for development and browsing (except the classic browser issues on FOSS). If you can get one for cheap, recommended: but it is a big beast. Riccardo
Re: New laptop recommendations
at 2:53 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:01:42 + (UTC) Robert Gilaard I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell Hi Robert, Rupert, Email coming from Yahoo is flagged as phishing scam, wastes time digging. **This is unacceptable advice** Emphasis mine. Let’s not admonish people over the providers they use just because your mailer is misconfigured. After all, I don’t have this issue.
Re: New laptop recommendations
What crap is this? On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 20:53, wrote: > Your other threads on server boards and systems make much more sense now. You are off topic, and have no fucking clue of what you are talking about.
Re: New laptop recommendations
Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:01:42 + (UTC) Robert Gilaard > I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell Hi Robert, Rupert, Email coming from Yahoo is flagged as phishing scam, wastes time digging. This is unacceptable advice, something very wrong with the advertisement. Search for string "Dell", the company is "in difficulties": Compromised. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_TAO_product_catalog Also search for the string "implant", and ask dmesg from an OpenBSD user. Or a developer who actually uses the hardware and invests effort it runs. > laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I > assume they will be opensource friendly. Assumptions & presumptions are examples, of superstitious mind abduction. Common misconception, corporate operating system not a free nor open one. Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:37:18 -0400 Rupert Gallagher > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? Your other threads on server boards and systems make much more sense now. You must however ask around more for long term production use of systems. Search the archives and read carefully advice comes mostly free and open. Kind regards, Anton Lazarov
Re: New laptop recommendations
Generally the Lenovo laptops works really well, nothing beats the IBM days, but I have at the moment around 90 or so X1 Carbon's out in the field in various generations from generation 2 all the way to latest 6th gen., never had problems with the Linux support or stability of the laptops. Can't say for *BSD reliability, since I'm the only one use *BSD and both my T430 and T450 works well, while my P51 is having problems with the Nvidia/Intel combo. But if I disable the Nvidia card in BIOS it works okay after a bit of fitteling - but this also goes for Debian GNU/Linux and even Windows sometimes have problems with the switch. But none of the laptops mentioned are cheap, so don't know if that disqualifies this information. Med Venlig Hilsen / Best Regards Henrik Dige Semark On 26-06-2018 10:50, Stuart Longland wrote: > On 26/06/18 18:03, Marco van Hulten wrote: >> In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that >> my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource >> friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking). > The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well. The Lenovo ones? Looking at > the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both > Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs. > > I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm > the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it > for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.
Re: New laptop recommendations
On 26/06/18 18:03, Marco van Hulten wrote: > In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that > my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource > friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking). The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well. The Lenovo ones? Looking at the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs. I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at. -- Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL) I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
Re: New laptop recommendations
ThinkPads use devices for which there are open source devices for everything, as far as I know. Still, hardware support in the BSDs lags Linux to varying degrees, because of slower hardware. (My 2015 E550, for example, still lacked full video support in FreeBSD RELEASE, last time I looked. In my experience, hardware support is actually better in OpenBSD than FreeBSD. Jeff Sent from Blue On 26 Jun 2018, 09:07, at 09:07, Marco van Hulten wrote: >Robert, > >On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote: >> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell >> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I >> assume they will be opensource friendly. > >It could be fine, but I would not just assume this. The pre-configured >Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use, >and are not included in OpenBSD. > >> I have short listed:1. Dell >> Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision >> 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv. > >I have a Dell Latitude E7470, which had serveral power management >related issues in spring last year (e.g. hanging when waking up from >suspend). The worst of these issues disappeared because OpenBSD and >Ubuntu (also installed as it is officially provided by my employer) got >support for the hardware over the summer of 2017. There is still the >issue of an OpenBSD segfault when I attach/detach the laptop to/from my >docking station. > >In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that >my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource >friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking). > >Marco
Re: New laptop recommendations
Robert, On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote: > I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell > laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I > assume they will be opensource friendly. It could be fine, but I would not just assume this. The pre-configured Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use, and are not included in OpenBSD. > I have short listed:1. Dell > Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision > 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv. I have a Dell Latitude E7470, which had serveral power management related issues in spring last year (e.g. hanging when waking up from suspend). The worst of these issues disappeared because OpenBSD and Ubuntu (also installed as it is officially provided by my employer) got support for the hardware over the summer of 2017. There is still the issue of an OpenBSD segfault when I attach/detach the laptop to/from my docking station. In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking). Marco
Re: New laptop recommendations
I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I assume they will be opensource friendly. I have short listed:1. Dell Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv. With kind regards,Robert On Tuesday, 19 June 2018, 12:39:03 CEST, Rupert Gallagher wrote: I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally. I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
Re: New laptop recommendations
I looked into all of your comments, and I thank you for it. The coreboot/libreboot way was very tempting, but not competitive pricewise. I no longer have a desktop since the past century, spoiled by three MBPs, and need something robust, light, and performing. I spotted an offer for a new Lenovo T480, i5 series 8, 8GB RAM with an empty slot for easy upgrade, dual storage (!!!) with SSD on m.2 and conventional SATA, dual lithium battery for up to 4 days of work without need to plug the power cord, a 14" display, fingerprint and smartcard reader, and a videocamera. Not happy about the clitmouse, and the meccanical mouse buttons. The best part is the cost: 999€ plus VAT. An MBP with similar specs costs north of 3000€, all soldered in. So long Apple, and hello Lenovo! :-))) On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every > day, but is now falling apart, finally. I would buy a new one if only Steve > Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are > meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, > soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for > standard connectors. I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with > it?
Re: New laptop recommendations
X200 is a bad idea, Core 2 Duos will never get microcode updates for Spectre bugs. -- Patrick Harper paia...@fastmail.com On Thu, 21 Jun 2018, at 08:30, flipchan wrote: > I got the x200 with libreboot and openbsd > > On June 19, 2018 10:47:24 AM UTC, Kaya Saman wrote: > >I couldn't say for the compatibility with OpenBSD though I have read > >other people running on them, but how about Lenovo?? > > > > > >I've got an X220 which I run a Linux distro on which I'm really happy > >with though the i7 CPU does seem to overheat for some reason, though I > >seem to have this issue with all laptops I've gone through?? Must be me > >:-S > > > >- only system that never overheated was my old PowerBook G3 Firewire > >running Mac OS 9 > > > > > >I might be remembering wrong but I'm sure I've seen people on the list > >running OBSD on X-series Lenovo's so it might be worth a shot unless > >anyone else has better suggestions :-) > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Kaya > > > > > >On 06/19/18 11:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > >> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, > >every day, but is now falling apart, finally. > >> > >> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping > >Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you > >suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, > >bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. > >> > >> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? > > -- > Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev
Re: New laptop recommendations
I got the x200 with libreboot and openbsd On June 19, 2018 10:47:24 AM UTC, Kaya Saman wrote: >I couldn't say for the compatibility with OpenBSD though I have read >other people running on them, but how about Lenovo?? > > >I've got an X220 which I run a Linux distro on which I'm really happy >with though the i7 CPU does seem to overheat for some reason, though I >seem to have this issue with all laptops I've gone through?? Must be me >:-S > >- only system that never overheated was my old PowerBook G3 Firewire >running Mac OS 9 > > >I might be remembering wrong but I'm sure I've seen people on the list >running OBSD on X-series Lenovo's so it might be worth a shot unless >anyone else has better suggestions :-) > > >Regards, > > >Kaya > > >On 06/19/18 11:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote: >> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, >every day, but is now falling apart, finally. >> >> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping >Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you >suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, >bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. >> >> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? -- Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev
Re: New laptop recommendations
In his defense, you did exactly that which you are accusing him of, not providing "technical" arguments. "Oh look at this laptop which I've apparently never used but I'd recommend you look into anyway." "I hear they're quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory." It sounds like pandering to ideology without technical merit. As for my recommendation, I've had some decent success with Panasonic Toughbooks (CF-30 and CF-31 so far). I'll see if I can bring up a dmesg when I get a chance. They are physically sound units too. Most stuff seems to work with 6.3 + syspatches on the CF-31 but I can't work out how to disable the gestures (I don't seem to have a "mouse.tp.tapping" variable when using wsconsctl(8)). On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:19:55 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan wrote: > On 06/19/18 11:20, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:59:45 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan > >> Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're > >> quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory. > > The pinnacle of bullshit talk, utter nonsense, no technical value at all. > > > > > You don't have to be a snarky prick about things-- I don't hear you > making any suggestions or providing any "technical" arguments or giving > reasons for how/why my suggestion is "utter nonsense". > You want a dmesg? You want the stats on the laptop? I'm not your > secretary, you know how to Google. Don't be aggressive just for the sake > of being aggressive. > > Cheers, > Jordan >
Re: New laptop recommendations
I spoke with Todd Weaver at LibrePlanet about running OpenBSD on Purism. I suggested that the company install a bunch of operating systems and post dmesg, but I don't think they have done that yet. If I remember correctly, he also said he would be happy to provide a refurbished laptop to a developer for the purpose of confirming that the hardware works well on OpenBSD.
Re: New laptop recommendations
No drm support for Kaveri in OpenBSD 6.3. There is support in current now so 6.4 should work better when it arrives. -- Patrick Harper paia...@fastmail.com On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 14:03, Johan Mellberg wrote: > Hmm. I have that one and there’s something fishy with the graphics, when > I boot the installer (6.3) I just get “static” on the built in screen. > No problem with any other OS. I just tried booting OpenBSD as a test so > have not investigated further, but consider it a potential issue, it > might be just my specimen but then again, maybe not. > > Mvh, Johan > — > Smartphone. Ja... just det. > > > 20 juni 2018 kl. 21:36 skrev Patrick Harper : > > > > HP EliteBook 745 G2? > > > > -- > > Patrick Harper > > paia...@fastmail.com > > > >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 09:01, Thomas Frohwein wrote: > >> No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or > >> refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask > >> yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g. > >> with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a > >> reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between > >> manufacturer and you... > >> > >
Re: New laptop recommendations
Hmm. I have that one and there’s something fishy with the graphics, when I boot the installer (6.3) I just get “static” on the built in screen. No problem with any other OS. I just tried booting OpenBSD as a test so have not investigated further, but consider it a potential issue, it might be just my specimen but then again, maybe not. Mvh, Johan — Smartphone. Ja... just det. > 20 juni 2018 kl. 21:36 skrev Patrick Harper : > > HP EliteBook 745 G2? > > -- > Patrick Harper > paia...@fastmail.com > >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 09:01, Thomas Frohwein wrote: >> No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or >> refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask >> yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g. >> with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a >> reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between >> manufacturer and you... >> >
Re: New laptop recommendations
HP EliteBook 745 G2? -- Patrick Harper paia...@fastmail.com On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, at 09:01, Thomas Frohwein wrote: > No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or > refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask > yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g. > with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a > reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between > manufacturer and you... >
Re: New laptop recommendations
No AMD laptop recommendations in this day and age? Also buying used or refurbished laptops on eBay is a security risk from the outset - ask yourself how well you would be at spotting if someone had tampered e.g. with the webcam or the firmware? With new hardware, you have at least a reasonable expectation that the package hasn't been opened between manufacturer and you...
Re: New laptop recommendations
I'm quite happy with my Asus Zenbook 3 (UX390UA). It's thinner, lighter and more powerful than the current MacBooks and costs about 1100 EUR now. On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every > day, but is now falling apart, finally. > > I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple > inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: > expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard > keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. > > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
Re: New laptop recommendations
You can get a pretty good refurbished 3th gen thinkpad x1 carbon under 900$. I've baught two on ebay over the last year,
Re: New laptop recommendations
On 06/19/18 11:20, li...@wrant.com wrote: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:59:45 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory. The pinnacle of bullshit talk, utter nonsense, no technical value at all. You don't have to be a snarky prick about things-- I don't hear you making any suggestions or providing any "technical" arguments or giving reasons for how/why my suggestion is "utter nonsense". You want a dmesg? You want the stats on the laptop? I'm not your secretary, you know how to Google. Don't be aggressive just for the sake of being aggressive. Cheers, Jordan
Re: New laptop recommendations
On 06/19/18 03:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote: I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? On 06/19, Jordan Geoghegan wrote: Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory. They run OpenBSD fine with some caveats: https://forums.puri.sm/t/openbsd-on-librem/1080
Re: New laptop recommendations
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 21:16, Scott Bonds wrote: > On 06/19, Jordan Geoghegan wrote: >>Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're quite >>nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory! > They run OpenBSD fine with some caveats: > https://forums.puri.sm/t/openbsd-on-libre Very good with coreboot, but the cpu is too slow: an i3 of the 8-th generation is cheaper and faster.
Re: New laptop recommendations
Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:59:45 -0700 Jordan Geoghegan > Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're > quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory. The pinnacle of bullshit talk, utter nonsense, no technical value at all. > Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:37:18 -0400 Rupert Gallagher > > I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me > > well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally. > > > > I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping > > Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make > > you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small > > disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard > > connectors. > > > > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? Advertisements to resurrection crap, no dmesg, no hardware specification.
Re: New laptop recommendations
Have you considered one of the Librem laptops by Purism? I hear they're quite nice, and are running coreboot straight from the factory. On 06/19/18 03:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote: I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally. I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
Re: New laptop recommendations
I use 6.3 on my T450S. Works great. Also have installed easily on the Dell E7240 and E7440. I prefer the Thinkpad but the Dell is solid also. You can probably get one of each for under $1000. Likely you will want to replace the battery either way but all of these machines are available used quite reasonably and new batteries are available for all. On Jun 19, 2018, 3:39 AM -0700, Rupert Gallagher , wrote: > I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every > day, but is now falling apart, finally. > > I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple > inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: > expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard > keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. > > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
Re: New laptop recommendations
I love my DELL Latitude E7240 :-) June 19, 2018 1:01 PM, "Jeffrey Joshua Rollin" wrote: > Definitely second the ThinkPad recommendations. I have an X230i, bought used, > on which I currently > run OpenBSD 6.3, and an E550 on which I've used OpenBSD in the past; both run > perfectly as of 6.2, > except for the fingerprint reader on the X (although to be fair I haven't > tried that again > recently). > > Jeff > > Sent from Blue > > On 19 Jun 2018, 11:51, at 11:51, Daniel Gracia wrote: > >> I would opt for a Thinkpad. Actually working with a T460s; runs like a >> charm. If you are looking for mobility, a T series should fit. If you >> need >> more horsepower take a look at P series. >> >> Of course those are my preferences, YMMV! >> >> Regards. >> >> El mar., 19 jun. 2018 a las 12:41, Rupert Gallagher >> () >> escribió: >> >>> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, >> >> every >>> day, but is now falling apart, finally. >>> >>> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping >> >> Apple >>> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you >> >> suffer: >>> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad >> >> keyboard >>> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. >>> >>> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
Re: New laptop recommendations
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 06:37:18AM -0400, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? I myself have worn out a few thinkpads over the years, but my last couple of laptops have been Clevo rebrands - local outfits tend to slap their own brands on them, like Multicom in Norway[1] - a more recent model is at[2]. If you can live without the ThinkPad 'clitmouse' (as you probably can since you're looking for a replacment for a Mac), try searching for "Clevo Notebook 831" which I think would leave you with something to spare out of your 1500 EUR. - Peter [1] https://bsdly.blogspot.com/2017/07/openbsd-and-modern-laptop.html [2] https://www.multicom.no/multicom-talisa-u831-black-133/cat-p/c100559/p10642670 -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: New laptop recommendations
Definitely second the ThinkPad recommendations. I have an X230i, bought used, on which I currently run OpenBSD 6.3, and an E550 on which I've used OpenBSD in the past; both run perfectly as of 6.2, except for the fingerprint reader on the X (although to be fair I haven't tried that again recently). Jeff Sent from Blue On 19 Jun 2018, 11:51, at 11:51, Daniel Gracia wrote: >I would opt for a Thinkpad. Actually working with a T460s; runs like a >charm. If you are looking for mobility, a T series should fit. If you >need >more horsepower take a look at P series. > >Of course those are my preferences, YMMV! > >Regards. > >El mar., 19 jun. 2018 a las 12:41, Rupert Gallagher >() >escribió: > >> I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, >every >> day, but is now falling apart, finally. >> >> I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping >Apple >> inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you >suffer: >> expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad >keyboard >> keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. >> >> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? >>
Re: New laptop recommendations
I would opt for a Thinkpad. Actually working with a T460s; runs like a charm. If you are looking for mobility, a T series should fit. If you need more horsepower take a look at P series. Of course those are my preferences, YMMV! Regards. El mar., 19 jun. 2018 a las 12:41, Rupert Gallagher () escribió: > I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every > day, but is now falling apart, finally. > > I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple > inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: > expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard > keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. > > I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it? >
Re: New laptop recommendations
I couldn't say for the compatibility with OpenBSD though I have read other people running on them, but how about Lenovo?? I've got an X220 which I run a Linux distro on which I'm really happy with though the i7 CPU does seem to overheat for some reason, though I seem to have this issue with all laptops I've gone through?? Must be me :-S - only system that never overheated was my old PowerBook G3 Firewire running Mac OS 9 I might be remembering wrong but I'm sure I've seen people on the list running OBSD on X-series Lenovo's so it might be worth a shot unless anyone else has better suggestions :-) Regards, Kaya On 06/19/18 11:37, Rupert Gallagher wrote: I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally. I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
New laptop recommendations
I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally. I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors. I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Mihai Popescu [mih...@gmail.com] wrote: > Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop. > Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop. > I was talking about the Panasonic _Toughbook_ which is definitely a laptop. The CF-C1 and CF-19MK3/MK4/MK5 models are all very portable. The CF-19 is a bit rugged. My CF-C1 fans, even on very high hour units, are all fine, the CF-19 has no fans at all. There are lots of other models and they are all pretty cheap once you get to 2012 or earlier models. Panasonic makes more parts in-house than any other manufacturer, and they seem to be pretty high quality. The cheap used stuff is a great match for me. Chris
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Thanks for all the support everyone. I'm weighing my options. -Nate On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 04:20:15PM -0500, Donald Allen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Mihai Popescuwrote: > > > Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop. > > Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop. > > > es> I think the folks *are* paying attention. For example: > > https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toughbook-Notebook-Silver-CF-54A0001CM/dp/B00V8KG91A/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1478980140=8-6=toughbook+cf-54 > > > > > Thanks.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Mihai Popescuwrote: > Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop. > Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop. > I think the folks *are* paying attention. For example: https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toughbook-Notebook-Silver-CF-54A0001CM/dp/B00V8KG91A/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1478980140=8-6=toughbook+cf-54 > > Thanks.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Folks, pay attention, please! The OP asked about a laptop. Pansonic Thoughbook is not a laptop! It's a real desktop. Thanks.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
I picked up a Core 2 Duo Toughbook for $40 US on eBay a month or so back. I had to spend another $9 to get an Intel WiFi card for it but it worked right out of the box. With an older processor and only 4gb of RAM it isn't a powerhouse dev machine, but for email, web, etc it works great. The wifi has good antennas and quite a nice range. To me that is a great example of what is wonderful about OpenBSD. The community isn't afraid to get rid of or replace old code. That keeps the OS light and performant. Any other operating system I have experienced (windows, macOS, Solaris, OS/2, AmigaDOS, even Linux to a certain extent, etc.) gets slower with each subsequent release on older hardware. Not so with OpenBSD - in some cases it even gets faster. As a software developer for the last 30 years, I totally get the trap. You want to add your feature or fix your bug, and the complexity of the entire system surrounding youmakes you worry about your change being too intrusive and inadvertently breaking something else in the system. By being courageous and deleting stuff you know is a problem, sure you might have unintended side effects that you have to expend energy to fix, but you also fight against that complexity demon that makes you increasingly more nervous that you let inefficiencies develop and build over time. Thank you again to everyone who has contributed over the years for your hard work! We do genuinely appreciate it. On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 9:04 AMwrote: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 07:25:11 -0600 > Chris Bennett wrote: > > > > > I also notice that Thinkpads and Toughbooks seem to be the preferred > > choices for a cheaper laptop. I need a newer laptop too, so I will > > look into those on ebay. > > > > Thanks > > Chris Bennett > > > > Toughbooks, when new, are definitely not cheap. Even when second-hand, > they are probably a little more expensive than their Thinkpad > counterparts. OpenBSD has a habit of working very well on older > ThinkPads. > > Not that it's a bad thing though, you do get what you pay for. The > price difference is significant though, and boils down to the fact that > one brand is a solid, rugged machine built for field use, and how a > laptop should be anyway, and the other brand is a cheap Chinese > product, which relies upon shoddy and questionable quality control and > business practices. > > For a second-hand Toughbook to be very cheap, it is usually almost a > decade old. However, a new Toughbook CF-31 will work around 90% well > with OpenBSD, though I am not sure about the optional GPS or HSPA modem.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 07:46:30AM -0600, Jordon wrote: > > On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:36 AM, Stefan Sperlingwrote: > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote: > >> WiFi Just Works! > > > >> iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a, > >> msi > > > > Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one. > > Then wifi should work even better ;-) > > Wow. I just looked up if_iwm.c on the web-cvs - you’ve been busy! > > I am willing to run the latest snapshot (I did have it installed on this new > laptop for a little while) but I have one question. I seem to remember > running a latest snapshot almost a year ago when I submitted support for a PCI > serial card (puc device). When I was running current, there were no packages. > What is the official way to install packages when running current? Build them > from ports? > > Also, playing with the new vmm would be fun too, so there’s another reason > to run current… > > Jordon For amd64 and other fast arches, most of the time, packages snaps *are* available at http://your-mirror/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages/`machine -a`/ -Otto
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 07:25:11 -0600 Chris Bennettwrote: > > I also notice that Thinkpads and Toughbooks seem to be the preferred > choices for a cheaper laptop. I need a newer laptop too, so I will > look into those on ebay. > > Thanks > Chris Bennett > Toughbooks, when new, are definitely not cheap. Even when second-hand, they are probably a little more expensive than their Thinkpad counterparts. OpenBSD has a habit of working very well on older ThinkPads. Not that it's a bad thing though, you do get what you pay for. The price difference is significant though, and boils down to the fact that one brand is a solid, rugged machine built for field use, and how a laptop should be anyway, and the other brand is a cheap Chinese product, which relies upon shoddy and questionable quality control and business practices. For a second-hand Toughbook to be very cheap, it is usually almost a decade old. However, a new Toughbook CF-31 will work around 90% well with OpenBSD, though I am not sure about the optional GPS or HSPA modem.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:36 AM, Stefan Sperlingwrote: > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote: >> WiFi Just Works! > >> iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a, >> msi > > Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one. > Then wifi should work even better ;-) Wow. I just looked up if_iwm.c on the web-cvs - you’ve been busy! I am willing to run the latest snapshot (I did have it installed on this new laptop for a little while) but I have one question. I seem to remember running a latest snapshot almost a year ago when I submitted support for a PCI serial card (puc device). When I was running current, there were no packages. What is the official way to install packages when running current? Build them from ports? Also, playing with the new vmm would be fun too, so there’s another reason to run current… Jordon
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 12:36:54PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote: > > WiFi Just Works! > > > iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a, > > msi > > Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one. > Then wifi should work even better ;-) > I consistently have problems with weak WiFi signals wherever I'm at. For one of my desktops, I solve that problem by using a huge antenna I got years ago while I had a cheap WiFi repeater. However, this doesn't solve my problem when using a laptop. Are there any good solutions out there that will work with a laptop? My first thought would be a USB device since I can run a powered hub, but a card could also work, though they tend to cook themselves rather quickly since there is no good cooling method. I am assuming I will need to add a large antenna also, but maybe not? I also notice that Thinkpads and Toughbooks seem to be the preferred choices for a cheaper laptop. I need a newer laptop too, so I will look into those on ebay. Thanks Chris Bennett
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
I have been running a Thinkpad x220 for some time until it died. I replaced it with an x230 (my RAM, hard drive and mSATA drive were compatible so I moved them) and I must say it is a much better machine. Everything literally works out of the box and the build quality was much better. I am now waiting on an X1 Carbon (4th generation) to arrive that I will be moving to. I know we haven't caught up with Skylake so I won't have suspend or Intel graphics but I have confidence we will get there eventually. I'll put up a blog post detailing my installation experience when I get it ( http://functionallyparanoid.com). On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:46 AM Stefan Sperlingwrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote: > > WiFi Just Works! > > > iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev > 0x3a, > > msi > > Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one. > Then wifi should work even better ;-)
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 08:03:04PM -0600, jordon wrote: > WiFi Just Works! > iwm0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260" rev 0x3a, > msi Uhmm, you probably wanna be running -current with this one. Then wifi should work even better ;-)
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
> On Nov 9, 2016, at 11:47 PM, Nathan Kochwrote: > > Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, > I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know. > > Thank you. > Nate > > > Sailing the South Saskatchewan. > I just (as in yesterday) got a ThinkPad x260. I saw that FreeBSD had pretty good support for it and I got it with the intent of running FreeBSD or OpenBSD on it. I went with the i5-6300U, 1080p screen, extra large battery (this model has an internal battery AND an external one - the extra large option sticks out a bit and tilts up the keyboard, which is nice), and minimal RAM and HDD (cheaper to upgrade later). I did up the RAM to 16GB right away and will soon replace the 500GB spinning rust with an SSD. FreeBSD and TrueOS both work pretty good (TrueOS is just too bloated/slow for my taste), but I think OpenBSD might be the winner for what stays on it. WiFi Just Works! Sleep/Resume almost works (sleeps just fine on close but screen doesn’t wake up on open - but I can ssh into it after the failed wake). The trackpad is… pretty rough… but I’m used to a trackpad on a Mac, which is by far the best of any computer I’ve ever used. Anyway, I am just searching for the tiniest window manager that does what I need (currently exploring cwm, as I like what I’ve read about it) and I think I have my portable coding machine. My ‘workflow’ is emacs in terminal, git, llvm, and a quick web browser. Once llvm is officially supported in base, I will be even happier! Anyway, here is the dmesg of it exactly as I got ig except I removed the 4GB RAM and added a (cheaper) upgrade to 16GB myself: OpenBSD 6.0 (GENERIC.MP) #2319: Tue Jul 26 13:00:43 MDT 2016 dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP real mem = 16546209792 (15779MB) avail mem = 16040271872 (15297MB) mpath0 at root scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.8 @ 0xd7bfd000 (65 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version "R02ET50W (1.23 )" date 09/20/2016 bios0: LENOVO 20F6CTO1WW acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP TCPA SSDT SSDT TPM2 UEFI SSDT SSDT ECDT HPET APIC MCFG SSDT SSDT DBGP DBG2 BOOT BATB SSDT SSDT MSDM ASF! FPDT UEFI acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S4) SLPB(S3) IGBE(S4) EXP8(S4) XHCI(S3) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpiec0 at acpi0 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 2399 Hz acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2293.34 MHz cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX ,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT ,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,LONG,LAHF,ABM,3DNOWP,PERF,ITS C,FSGSBASE,SGX,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM,MPX,RDSEED,ADX,SMAP,C LFLUSHOPT,PT,SENSOR,ARAT cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0 mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges cpu0: apic clock running at 23MHz cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.1.2.4.1.1.1, IBE cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2294.63 MHz cpu1: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX ,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT ,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,LONG,LAHF,ABM,3DNOWP,PERF,ITS C,FSGSBASE,SGX,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM,MPX,RDSEED,ADX,SMAP,C LFLUSHOPT,PT,SENSOR,ARAT cpu1: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache cpu1: smt 0, core 1, package 0 cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu2: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2294.63 MHz cpu2: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX ,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT ,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,LONG,LAHF,ABM,3DNOWP,PERF,ITS C,FSGSBASE,SGX,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM,MPX,RDSEED,ADX,SMAP,C LFLUSHOPT,PT,SENSOR,ARAT cpu2: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache cpu2: smt 1, core 0, package 0 cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 3 (application processor) cpu3: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2294.63 MHz cpu3: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Off topic (durability): I've owned a couple X220 ThinkPads now and I don't disagree with the Cappuccino report - fans are a real weak point on the ThinkPad - and they break at the worst times - usually when travelling. Basically, the laptop get squished a little, the fan stops working, and you have to get a new one. Other little stuff: the ThinkPad lettering forward of the keyboard just fell off one day - now there's a bare metal spot on the black. While the ThinkPad's are known for durability, the X220 is a little weak in that area. I love the little screen. I love even more that everything works so well under OpenBSD. I just can't afford to have the one computer I take on a trip poop itself at the wrong time. My 2 cents. I am tempted to give the Toughbook a shot now. Thanks for the heads up. On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Chris Cappucciowrote: > harry666t [harry6...@gmail.com] wrote: >> On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian wrote: >> > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also. >> >> Typing this on a Thinkpad X200s, running 6.0, very very happy with it. > > I consistently get junk when I buy old Thinkpads. Usually the problems are not major, but I started buying Panasonic Toughbook CF-C1A (1st gen intel) and CF-C1B (2nd gen intel) laptops which are equivalent to X200 and X220. I have several units on ebay now for $60 USD which have 14,000 hours (basically on since they were manufactured) and they look and act brand new. I also started getting CF-19 MK3 (Core 2 duo) and CF-19 MK4 (i5) for field use. They are basically rock-solid, even with 8000 hours. Not every single used one has been great, but most have been very, very good...
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
harry666t [harry6...@gmail.com] wrote: > On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brianwrote: > > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also. > > Typing this on a Thinkpad X200s, running 6.0, very very happy with it. I consistently get junk when I buy old Thinkpads. Usually the problems are not major, but I started buying Panasonic Toughbook CF-C1A (1st gen intel) and CF-C1B (2nd gen intel) laptops which are equivalent to X200 and X220. I have several units on ebay now for $60 USD which have 14,000 hours (basically on since they were manufactured) and they look and act brand new. I also started getting CF-19 MK3 (Core 2 duo) and CF-19 MK4 (i5) for field use. They are basically rock-solid, even with 8000 hours. Not every single used one has been great, but most have been very, very good...
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:20:47PM +0100, Robert wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:21:54 +0100 > harry666twrote: > > > On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian wrote: > > > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going > > > also. > > +1 > > I'm using a T400 (14.1"), or when travelling an X61s. > > I really don't see the need for the latest & greatest & blobiest model... > everything works on those old Thinkpads. > Especially the X61s with an SSD and a smaller battery is close to 1kg ("2 > pounds"), easy to carry and sturdy. > > Since those models are rather old you should get them pretty cheap. So buy a > couple, in case you need spare parts. You probably will have to replace the > battery, but there are lots of good/bad suppliers on the market. > > /Robert > By the way, I am looking for a "4 cell slim" battery for my x60s. Aka "ThinkPad Battery 31 (4 Cell) 40Y6999" Pictured here: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-62401 I once had a battery like this but it died. These only work in x60s/x61s and seem to have become rare nowadays. Most suppliers of compatible batteries seem to sell the "4 cell enhanced" version only (sometimes wrongly advertised as 40Y6999), which is much thicker and not an exact fit for the x60s's battery slot. If anyone knows where I could get one, please let me know :-)
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:21:54 +0100 harry666twrote: > On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brian wrote: > > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going > > also. +1 I'm using a T400 (14.1"), or when travelling an X61s. I really don't see the need for the latest & greatest & blobiest model... everything works on those old Thinkpads. Especially the X61s with an SSD and a smaller battery is close to 1kg ("2 pounds"), easy to carry and sturdy. Since those models are rather old you should get them pretty cheap. So buy a couple, in case you need spare parts. You probably will have to replace the battery, but there are lots of good/bad suppliers on the market. /Robert
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On 11 November 2016 at 03:25, Brianwrote: > Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also. Typing this on a Thinkpad X200s, running 6.0, very very happy with it.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
Thinkpads are used often by folks wanting to get that penguin OS going also. Brian On 11/10/2016 4:34 PM, STeve Andre' wrote: On 11/10/16 00:47, Nathan Koch wrote: Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know. Thank you. Nate Sailing the South Saskatchewan. I have used ThinkPads with great success: - T60p: everything worked - W500: everything worked - W541: camera and SDHC cards wern't working last time I checked, which was a while ago. Everything else is fine. Well, maybe the docking adaptor is still problematic. - A31p: which is now long obsolete, but it worked well. W500's can be had on ebay in the $280 class range, then add extra mem and a large disk, etc. --STeve Andre
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On 11/10/16 00:47, Nathan Koch wrote: Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know. Thank you. Nate Sailing the South Saskatchewan. I have used ThinkPads with great success: - T60p: everything worked - W500: everything worked - W541: camera and SDHC cards wern't working last time I checked, which was a while ago. Everything else is fine. Well, maybe the docking adaptor is still problematic. - A31p: which is now long obsolete, but it worked well. W500's can be had on ebay in the $280 class range, then add extra mem and a large disk, etc. --STeve Andre
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
On Wed, Nov 09, 2016 at 11:47:52PM -0600, Nathan Koch wrote: > Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, > I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for > myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. > Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and secure. If you have any > recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know. > > Thank you. > Nate Public information about the degree of hardware support for some specific machines is available in dmesg collections such as this one: http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?fts=openbsd=dmesgd=index You'll have to get familiar with reading a dmesg anyway if you want to run OpenBSD on a machine of your own. Researching dmesg archives also gives you an idea about what kind of systems people are running OpenBSD on.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
I seem to be doing fine on an old Panasonic Toughbook. They can be bought quite cheap if you don't mind them being several years old. Having said that, if you want a laptop that is "close to free", then expect failures to be "close to free" also. On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:47:52 -0600 Nathan Kochwrote: > Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, > I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present > for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and > lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and > secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits > the prairies please let me know. > > Thank you. > Nate > > > Sailing the South Saskatchewan.
Re: Laptop Recommendations?
I'm not sure if anything new is a good choice, particularly because of a lack of current GPU / WiFi drivers. I usually pick up something about a year or two old on refurb \ second hand market. Dell's business line (latitude / precision) have treated me well in the past. Just stick with Intel or and graphics.On Nov 10, 2016 12:47 AM, Nathan Kochwrote: > > Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, > I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for > myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. > Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and secure. If you have any > recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me > know. > > Thank you. > Nate > > > Sailing the South Saskatchewan.
Laptop Recommendations?
Greetings Fair BSD Wizards, I am new to the lists. I am currently shopping for a new Xmas present for myself and am looking for a laptop that's portable and lightweight. Preferably fast, cheap (close to free), light, and secure. If you have any recommendations before the stormy winter hits the prairies please let me know. Thank you. Nate Sailing the South Saskatchewan.
Re: Laptop recommendations
I'm still looking for a laptop. Does anybody know of a laptop that will do at least 1600x___ resolution and have rudimentary power management (ie., I can pull the AC plug and the laptop does not lock up)? Chris On 5/29/06, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that Intel will release specs on these. What is the future of laptop support for free Unicies? Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered? Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops? umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely documented. the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi, which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much support every est cpu at least basically. the situation with wifi could be better, but if you download the firmware it works. you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of barely working is very different than most people's. Intel is changing their ways. They got seriously hurt by NVidia and ATI taking over the video market, while simultaneously AMD hurt them on the processor side. The real enemy today is Nvidia (and ATI). Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they can to stay in the market. It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines benefits them, as it should).
Re: Laptop recommendations
dell inspiron 8100 On 6/14/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still looking for a laptop. Does anybody know of a laptop that will do at least 1600x___ resolution and have rudimentary power management (ie., I can pull the AC plug and the laptop does not lock up)? Chris On 5/29/06, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that Intel will release specs on these. What is the future of laptop support for free Unicies? Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered? Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops? umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely documented. the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi, which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much support every est cpu at least basically. the situation with wifi could be better, but if you download the firmware it works. you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of barely working is very different than most people's. Intel is changing their ways. They got seriously hurt by NVidia and ATI taking over the video market, while simultaneously AMD hurt them on the processor side. The real enemy today is Nvidia (and ATI). Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they can to stay in the market. It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines benefits them, as it should).
Re: Laptop recommendations
On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:40:47PM -0600, Christopher Snell wrote: I'm still looking for a laptop. Does anybody know of a laptop that will do at least 1600x___ resolution and have rudimentary power management (ie., I can pull the AC plug and the laptop does not lock up)? If you want a big, wide screen and don't mind something that weighs as much as a small car: http://www.stilyagin.com/OpenBSD/Clevo-D900T.php I need to update that, since more stuff works in 3.9, and yet more in -current (Azalia, etc.) You can pull the plug or have a power outage and it keeps going. Sleep and suspend won't work, but if acpi gets far enough along... There's also an AMD64 version for more $$$. -- Darrin Chandler| Phoenix BSD Users Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ |
Re: Laptop recommendations
On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 17:46 -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they can to stay in the market. It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines benefits them, as it should). In your opinion, has Intel changed enough so far to justify buying their products for use on a computer which will run OpenBSD? (Sadly, it may not matter much for one of my planned purchases, as the only barebones laptop with something besides ATI or nVidious video chips I could find is for AMD processors.) -- Shawn K. Quinn
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that Intel will release specs on these. What is the future of laptop support for free Unicies? Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered? Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops? umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely documented. the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi, which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much support every est cpu at least basically. the situation with wifi could be better, but if you download the firmware it works. you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of barely working is very different than most people's.
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/26/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that Intel will release specs on these. What is the future of laptop support for free Unicies? Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered? Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops? umm, the graphics and sound for intel chipsets are completely documented. the correct way to use speedstep (est) is through acpi, which is also documented, even though we should now pretty much support every est cpu at least basically. the situation with wifi could be better, but if you download the firmware it works. you have either misappraised the situation, or your defintion of barely working is very different than most people's. Intel is changing their ways. They got seriously hurt by NVidia and ATI taking over the video market, while simultaneously AMD hurt them on the processor side. The real enemy today is Nvidia (and ATI). Intel is trying to release documentation and open up as fast as they can to stay in the market. It's almost pathetic, but yes, it is benefiting us (as it should, and thus, us running on their machines benefits them, as it should).
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great. The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works. Right now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs 2.5 pounds, it's very small. It's a bummer for folks like me who depend on corporate purchasing to get their laptops. I feel lucky that my employer will at least listen to my request to get Lenovo over Dell. eBay is not going to be an option for them. So, me and every other purchaser of new equipment is stuck with two options at the moment: 1) Buy an outdated laptop that can do 1024x768 (or similar) at best 2) Buy a modern laptop that can do 1440x900 but have no working power management and have to deal with a laptop that locks up when the power cord is unplugged. It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that Intel will release specs on these. What is the future of laptop support for free Unicies? Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered? Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops? I've never felt more motivated to write Intel and give them my corporate mouthful. Chris
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 26/05/06, Christopher Snell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great. The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works. Right now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs 2.5 pounds, it's very small. It's a bummer for folks like me who depend on corporate purchasing to get their laptops. I feel lucky that my employer will at least listen to my request to get Lenovo over Dell. eBay is not going to be an option for them. So, me and every other purchaser of new equipment is stuck with two options at the moment: 1) Buy an outdated laptop that can do 1024x768 (or similar) at best 2) Buy a modern laptop that can do 1440x900 but have no working power management and have to deal with a laptop that locks up when the power cord is unplugged. It seems like every major laptop manufacturer is locked into Intel CPU, graphics, WiFi, and sound and that there's no chance in hell that Intel will release specs on these. What is the future of laptop support for free Unicies? Will SpeedStep ever be reverse engineered? Are we forever doomed to barely-working laptops? I've never felt more motivated to write Intel and give them my corporate mouthful. Is R51 no longer being sold? Or do laptops with 1.4K--1.8K USD MSRP made in the last few years have no support for 1400x1050? The situation with hardware does get worse in some respects (i.e. some of it is now Defective By Design), but don't forget that OpenBSD and other projects keep up with the reverse-engineering and implementing new features like ACPI-support, so there is still some balance in the efforts... And by all means, write to Intel, IBM/Lenovo etc and tell them what you think! :) Make a difference! Cheers, Constantine.
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karsten McMinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio, acpi, atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the 915GM. Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita. All that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held. Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says: 1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported 2. I love my IBM laptop!! I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great. The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works. Right now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs 2.5 pounds, it's very small. And it has the dell tri-metal case that's very nice (i assume the ibm design are one of the strong attractors, dell actually had a nice looking laptop with the c400, unlike ANY of their current line-up) Don't know about the C400 but I have a Dell D600 I bought new through work awhile back for very cheap, and about 6 months ago I found an old IBM T20 stuffed in a drawer. The T20 has a PIII 350MHz CPU, the Dell has a nice 1.6 GHz CPU in it, but I've given the Dell to my girlfriend because it's a flimsy pile of junk. From the experience of using this T20 my next laptop will be an IBM/Lenovo. I'll probably just look for something used since this one has been abused at work and is still running strong. Greg
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Didier Wiroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I'm currently using a thinkpad 60s Dual booting between xp and current, yes currently still required ;-)) see below Here is a short rundown: a) Performance is nice with bsd kernel, performance is degraded with bsd.mp b) sound chip currently not supported c) intel wireless lan currently not supported d) speedstep currently not supported e) power management currently not supported I guess you luck is changing. Your soundchip shoud be supported in -current. http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=azalia
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 11/05/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). [...] On 11/05/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to thank everyone for their input. Although I won't buy one immediately, I'll probably get a T43 as they are still available if you look. Maybe support for the ACPI/audio/wifi in the T60 will be better by the time I'm getting ready to buy so I can have the nice SATA drive and dual-core CPU. :) Here is the magic link for usstudents: http://www.ibm.com/shop/ibmdeals/usstudents They have quite some nice discounts, and they outsource their sales team to Canada (or at least they did so with my purchase 2 years ago). :) Enjoy, Constantine.
Panic question + RE: Laptop recommendations
Please try compiling a GENERIC kernel from a -current src tree but uncommenting the azalia device in the config.. Almost ... ;-) Azalia causes a panic during the boot process, right after loading the azalia driver. Here is some output (rewritten by hand) as the thinkbad X60s has no serial port: Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02: irq 11 azalia0: host: High Definition Audio rev. 1.0 azalia0: codec: Analog Devices AD1981HD (rev.2.0) azalia0: codec: High Definition Audio rev. 1.0 uvm_fault (0xd06f3720, 0x0, 0, 1) - e kernel: page fault trap, code=0 Stopped at 0:uvm_fault(0xd06f3720, 0x0, 0, 1) - e kernel: page fault trap, code=0 Stopped atdb_read_bytes+0x14: movb0(%edx), %al ddbps PID PPID PGRP UID S FLAGSWAIT COMMAND *0-10 0 7 0x80204 swapper For trace please see the question below: (I'm a beginner, so please apologize) How do you get a kernel panic output to the console without a serial port? I have tried with an USB-Serial Controller (here a snip, concerning the controller): ublcom0 at uhub2 port1 uplcom0: Prolific Technology Inc. USB-Serial Controller, rev 1.10/3.00, addr 2 ucom0 at uplcom0 While booting I tried at the boot prompt: set tty ucom0 I get: ucom0 not a console device After the OS is loaded, I can use without problems a dump terminal Regards Didier P.S here a /var/run/dmesg.boot (without azalia compiled) + USB-serial Controller connected OpenBSD 3.9-current (GENERIC) #728: Tue May 9 00:02:22 MDT 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC cpu0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU L2400 @ 1.66GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.67 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2 cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 600 MHz (1004 mV): unknown EST cpu, no changes possible real mem = 2137419776 (2087324K) avail mem = 1942142976 (1896624K) using 4256 buffers containing 106975232 bytes (104468K) of memory mainbus0 (root) bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(b6) BIOS, date 03/13/06, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd690, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (67 entries) bios0: LENOVO 17025PG pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfd620/0x9e0 pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfdea0/272 (15 entries) pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 (Intel 82371FB ISA rev 0x00) pcibios0: PCI bus #6 is the last bus bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xe400! 0xce800/0x1000 0xcf800/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1 cpu0 at mainbus0 pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM MCH rev 0x03 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03: aperture at 0xee10, size 0x800 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 not configured ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/1000MT (82573L) rev 0x00: irq 11, address 00:16:d3:21:4b:b6 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev 0x02 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 not configured ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0 at usb0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub1 at usb1 uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb2 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2 uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb3 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3 uhub3: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb4 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub4 at usb4 uhub4: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub4: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered ppb4 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI rev 0xe2 pci5 at ppb4 bus 5 cbb0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 Ricoh 5C476 CardBus rev 0xb4: irq 11 Ricoh 5C552 Firewire rev 0x09 at pci5 dev 0 function 1 not configured Ricoh 5C822 SD/MMC rev 0x18 at pci5 dev 0 function 2 not configured cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0 cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 6 device
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says: 1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported 2. I love my IBM laptop!! hold a ibm and a dell side by side and you'll answer that question. Yes, I have a dell inspiron also.
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Roger Neth Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. snip The Broadcom thing still applies. No drivers for airport. --Bryan Hello List, I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this. Doesn't this hurt the project? : ( Or are they just generous? http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem rogern John 3:16 I contacted the seller and asked Is this the full CD set with stickers, or copies of the CD's? This is the response I got: These cds are copies of the official 3 cd set. All cds are verified by test installations of the product. The official 3 CD set is available from www.openbsd.org for $45+$4 shipping and handling. To answer the question, Does this hurt the project? I respond, it doesn't help. eBay has strict policies about the illegal selling of copywrite protected items, and this qualifies. just go to the auction, and at the bottom is a link that reads Report this Item. It infringes on the copyright of Theo de Raadt. IIRC, three strikes and you're out on ebay. Jim
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/12/06, Samurai Chef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/11/06, Roger Neth Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. snip The Broadcom thing still applies. No drivers for airport. --Bryan Hello List, I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this. Doesn't this hurt the project? : ( Or are they just generous? http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem rogern John 3:16 I contacted the seller and asked Is this the full CD set with stickers, or copies of the CD's? This is the response I got: These cds are copies of the official 3 cd set. All cds are verified by test installations of the product. The official 3 CD set is available from www.openbsd.org for $45+$4 shipping and handling. To answer the question, Does this hurt the project? I respond, it doesn't help. eBay has strict policies about the illegal selling of copywrite protected items, and this qualifies. just go to the auction, and at the bottom is a link that reads Report this Item. It infringes on the copyright of Theo de Raadt. IIRC, three strikes and you're out on ebay. Jim Hello Jim, Thanks for investigating this more diligently than I had done. I went ahead and reported this item. rogern John 3:16
Laptop recommendations
Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? Thanks, RJ -- em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you... -- Slashdot
Re: Laptop recommendations
thus rjn spake: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? after more than 15 years in apple business, after many years now (since jobs came back) of declining quality of their products (there's almost no series without a glitch which appears in all machines of that appropriate series) i'd say: IBM, definitely. -- Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | [EMAIL PROTECTED] RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message ISP | POWER PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services GPG Key fingerprint = B5F6 68A4 EC45 C309 6770 38C4 50E8 2740 9E0C F20A There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? Thanks, RJ The official page for compatible laptops can be found here: http://www.openbsd.org/i386-laptop.html
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to be when I first heard about it). If you search the archives you'll see dmesgs from the new macs. I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. See http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html for a fuller list of options. Likewise, the laptop page ( http://www.openbsd.org/i386-laptop.html ) has some info about a T43 and a Z60m. However, searches of the misc@ archives suggest the newer *60 series generally don't work well with OpenBSD. I would of course be careful to order a laptop with an intel wifi adapter. On 5/11/06, Timo Schoeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: appropriate series) i'd say: IBM, definitely. So, any recommendations per specific models? I was looking at the Z and T series... Thanks, RJ
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? A quick search of the archives will show you a number of OpenBSD developers currently run with the X40 model. That being said, I have a T60p on order, but I wont be running OpenBSD on it. aaron.glenn
Re: Laptop recommendations
thus rjn spake: On 5/11/06, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to be when I first heard about it). If you search the archives you'll see dmesgs from the new macs. I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. See http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html for a fuller list of options. Likewise, the laptop page ( http://www.openbsd.org/i386-laptop.html ) has some info about a T43 and a Z60m. However, searches of the misc@ archives suggest the newer *60 series generally don't work well with OpenBSD. I would of course be careful to order a laptop with an intel wifi adapter. On 5/11/06, Timo Schoeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: appropriate series) i'd say: IBM, definitely. So, any recommendations per specific models? I was looking at the Z and T series... quality issues are vendor dependant in this case... -- Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | [EMAIL PROTECTED] RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message ISP | POWER PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services GPG Key fingerprint = B5F6 68A4 EC45 C309 6770 38C4 50E8 2740 9E0C F20A There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Re: Laptop recommendations
snip I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. snip The Broadcom thing still applies. No drivers for airport. --Bryan
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. snip The Broadcom thing still applies. No drivers for airport. --Bryan Hello List, I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this. Doesn't this hurt the project? : ( Or are they just generous? http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem rogern John 3:16
Re: Laptop recommendations
Hello, I'm currently using a thinkpad 60s Dual booting between xp and current, yes currently still required ;-)) see below Here is a short rundown: a) Performance is nice with bsd kernel, performance is degraded with bsd.mp b) sound chip currently not supported c) intel wireless lan currently not supported d) speedstep currently not supported e) power management currently not supported Unfortunately it is not yet fully supported under openbsd but this is the best laptop I have ever had! Every day I have a look at the commited changes, hope and pray that support is added. ;-)) Anyway ... X runs really nice and as mentionned previously performance (cpu + disk) is really nice. Here is my dmesg: OpenBSD 3.9-current (GENERIC) #728: Tue May 9 00:02:22 MDT 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC cpu0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU L2400 @ 1.66GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.67 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2 cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1000 MHz (1244 mV): unknown EST cpu, no changes possible real mem = 2137419776 (2087324K) avail mem = 1942142976 (1896624K) using 4256 buffers containing 106975232 bytes (104468K) of memory mainbus0 (root) bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(31) BIOS, date 03/13/06, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd690, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (67 entries) bios0: LENOVO 17025PG pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfd620/0x9e0 pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfdea0/272 (15 entries) pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 (Intel 82371FB ISA rev 0x00) pcibios0: PCI bus #6 is the last bus bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xe400! 0xce800/0x1000 0xcf800/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1 cpu0 at mainbus0 pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM MCH rev 0x03 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03: aperture at 0xee10, size 0x800 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) Intel 82945GM Video rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 not configured ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/1000MT (82573L) rev 0x00: irq 11, address 00:16:d3:21:4b:b6 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev 0x02 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 not configured ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02 pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0 at usb0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub1 at usb1 uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb2 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2 uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb3 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3 uhub3: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: irq 11 usb4 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub4 at usb4 uhub4: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub4: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered ppb4 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI rev 0xe2 pci5 at ppb4 bus 5 cbb0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 Ricoh 5C476 CardBus rev 0xb4: irq 11 Ricoh 5C552 Firewire rev 0x09 at pci5 dev 0 function 1 not configured Ricoh 5C822 SD/MMC rev 0x18 at pci5 dev 0 function 2 not configured cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0 cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 6 device 0 cacheline 0x0, lattimer 0xb0 pcmcia0 at cardslot0 ichpcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel 82801GBM LPC rev 0x02: PM disabled pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 1 Intel 82801GB IDE rev 0x02: DMA, channel 0 configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility pciide0: channel 0 disabled (no drives) pciide0: channel 1 ignored (disabled) pciide1 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 Intel 82801GBM AHCI SATA rev 0x02: DMA, channel 0 wired to native-PCI, channel 1 wired to native-PCI pciide1: using irq 11 for native-PCI interrupt wd0 at pciide1 channel 0 drive 0: HTS541010G9SA00 wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 95396MB, 195371568 sectors wd0(pciide1:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5 ichiic0 at pci0 dev 31 function 3 Intel 82801GB SMBus rev 0x02: irq 11 iic0 at ichiic0 isa0 at ichpcib0 isadma0 at isa0 pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) pckbc0: using
Re: Laptop recommendations
On Thursday 11 May 2006 15:21, rjn wrote: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? Thanks, RJ As Jason already mentioned, look at the laptop page. I'm not sure my ThinkPad, an A31p is on that list. They aren't new, but you can get one in the $700 range now, and they're perhaps the best laptop IBM made. You can have three disks in it, too. I've had mine for three years now and the older A30p before that. Everything but bluetooth, firewire and the cough winmodem works wonderfully. The sound on the A31p is fantastic too, if that matters to you. --STeve Andre'
Re: Laptop recommendations
Hi RJ. I would recommend IBM/Lenovo. OpenBSD 3.9 works out of the box including (but not limited to ;) suspend, buttons, ... on my IBM X40. After a hard disk error on my Mac PowerBook (ppc architecture) I discovered that the support from Mac is really sh*t. Having a choice between IBM/Lenovo I strongly recommend an IBM/Lenovo notebook. But check http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html . HTH, Andreas. On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? Thanks, RJ -- em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you... -- Slashdot
Re: Laptop recommendations
As Jason already mentioned, look at the laptop page. I'm not sure my ThinkPad, an A31p is on that list. They aren't new, but you can get one in the $700 range now, and they're perhaps the best laptop IBM made. You can have three disks in it, too. I've had mine for three years now and the older A30p before that. Everything but bluetooth, firewire and the cough winmodem works wonderfully. The sound on the A31p is fantastic too, if that matters to you. the a31p represents the meaning of happiness.
Re: Laptop recommendations
On Thursday 11 May 2006 15:21, rjn wrote: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio, acpi, atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the 915GM. Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita. All that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held.
Re: Laptop recommendations
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Neth Jr Sent: 11 May 2006 10:52 PM To: OpenBSD general usage list Subject: Re: Laptop recommendations On 5/11/06, Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I had checked the archives for misc@, and what I had read indicated that the Macbook Pro could boot OpenBSD using Parallels virtualization software, but not natively due to hang while probing USB. Also, I'm under the opinion that the wireless doesn't work as they use broadcom adapters under the Airport Express name. I could be wrong though. I was just wondering if that had improved any. snip The Broadcom thing still applies. No drivers for airport. --Bryan Hello List, I was looking on Ebay for OpenBSD type of stuff and came across this. Doesn't this hurt the project? : ( Or are they just generous? http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenBSD-3-9-3-CD-Full-Set_W0QQitemZ7235743 360QQcategoryZ4619QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem rogern John 3:16 From their feedback page, it looks like they are not selling copies of the installation cd's, but cds with the cdXX.iso images... -Andre
Re: Laptop recommendations
I just wanted to thank everyone for their input. Although I won't buy one immediately, I'll probably get a T43 as they are still available if you look. Maybe support for the ACPI/audio/wifi in the T60 will be better by the time I'm getting ready to buy so I can have the nice SATA drive and dual-core CPU. :) Thanks, RJ On 5/11/06, Andreas Maus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi RJ. I would recommend IBM/Lenovo. OpenBSD 3.9 works out of the box including (but not limited to ;) suspend, buttons, ... on my IBM X40. After a hard disk error on my Mac PowerBook (ppc architecture) I discovered that the support from Mac is really sh*t. Having a choice between IBM/Lenovo I strongly recommend an IBM/Lenovo notebook. But check http://www.openbsd.org/laptop.html . HTH, Andreas. On 5/11/06, rjn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? Thanks, RJ -- em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you... -- Slashdot -- em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: dbhsibgeek www: http://www.bellsouthpwp.net/r/j/rjnowling/ Poster: I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation Anonymous: I am so very sorry for you... -- Slashdot
Re: Laptop recommendations
Karsten McMinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio, acpi, atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the 915GM. Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita. All that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held. Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says: 1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported 2. I love my IBM laptop!! I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great. The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works. Right now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs 2.5 pounds, it's very small. And it has the dell tri-metal case that's very nice (i assume the ibm design are one of the strong attractors, dell actually had a nice looking laptop with the c400, unlike ANY of their current line-up) Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what it's worth. And while their hardware support doesn't last long (unless it was covered by a 3 year warranty or such), they do post detailed assembly/ disassembly manuals and the motherboards and such are easy to find.
Re: Laptop recommendations
On Thursday 11 May 2006 19:22, Chris Cappuccio wrote: Karsten McMinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: z60t here. as mentioned earlier no support for the intel HD audio, upek bio, acpi, atherors 5212, intel wifi, Ricoh 5C552 firewire, 5C822 SD reader or the 915GM. Needless to say i multiboot -current with debian. and yes, debian is a pita. All that aside, the IBM/Lenovo is still the best looking laptop I've ever held. Why does everyone have to post on here a message that says: 1. Most of the devices on my IBM laptop are completely unsupported 2. I love my IBM laptop!! I always run across cheap/free/lying around dell laptops that work great. The sound works, the wireless might work, and suspend usually works. Right now I have a dell latitude c400, they're on ebay for $300, the thing weighs 2.5 pounds, it's very small. And it has the dell tri-metal case that's very nice (i assume the ibm design are one of the strong attractors, dell actually had a nice looking laptop with the c400, unlike ANY of their current line-up) Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what it's worth. And while their hardware support doesn't last long (unless it was covered by a 3 year warranty or such), they do post detailed assembly/ disassembly manuals and the motherboards and such are easy to find. Keep in mind Chris that its the latest ThinkPads that have lots of stuff that doesn't yet work. I think I'd rather have a T60 which doesn't entirely work rather than some Dell thing that I know I'm going to have to do open-heart surgery on to fix it. Yes, you're right, parts are available for Dell's and the manuals are there, but I really like my better built ThinkPad. And it has a better screen and keyboard. Having worked inside several different brands in the last couple of years, I prefer ThinkPads. --STeve Andre'
Re: Laptop recommendations
On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what it's worth. I have noticed the same thing. I have a Dell Latitude c600 which goes for only a few hundred on ebay and works very well. Everything works but the winmodem.
Re: Laptop recommendations
I have had no problems from my 8100 and it has been going for years (touch wood!) On 5/12/06, Sam Chill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/11/06, Chris Cappuccio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pretty much any older dell that I try is very well supported, for what it's worth. I have noticed the same thing. I have a Dell Latitude c600 which goes for only a few hundred on ebay and works very well. Everything works but the winmodem.
Re: Laptop recommendations
rjn wrote: Hi all, I'm looking into getting a new laptop (I start college in the fall). In particular, I'm looking for something OpenBSD compatible. I considering either a Lenovo Thinkpad or the MacBook Pro. From what I've seen you can only boot the macbook pro if you have windows installed. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the new Lenovo models and the macbook pro? Thanks, RJ From your most recent post it looks like you've settled on the T43 -- great choice! Nevertheless I'm posting my recent X31-purchase experiences and thoughts for others who have the same general question. I recently bought a new laptop to replace an aging TiBook. I've generally had good luck with Powerbooks but wanted something that would work with OpenBSD out of the box. I looked at the Dells, especially the c400 and c600, the Toshibas but finally decided to get a Thinkpad. There were several driving factors that drove me to the Thinkpad line. 1) They're near bullet proof. I have a friend who should be a professional product tester. He drops, folds, spindles and mutilates every laptop he buys. Only the Powerbooks and Thinkpads can keep up with him. 2) Best warranty bar none. IBM/Lenovo build excellent products and back them with fantastic warranties. 3) Warranty support. IBM/Lenovo warranties are tied to the laptop. You can buy or sell a Thinkpad and not worry about transferring the warranty. Whoever own the laptop has only to pick up the phone and make a call. Better, all new Lenovo's come with a 3-year standard warranty. It's not the top-of-the-line, next-business-day warranty, but the upgrade is not expensive. 4) They're shockingly light across the whole Thinkpad range, from a low of about 2.8 lbs to 5.5 lbs (though that can easily be pushed way up with add ons). 5) Businesses by tons of them and after 2 - 4 years dispose of them. Check ebay and wonder at the number of used Thinkpads with anywhere from 6 - 12 months warranty typically left (I've seen even longer). I wanted small and light primarily, Pentium 4m/Centrino with built-in wifi, gigabit ethernet and the option to add bluetooth (for when it's supported). Initially I narrowed my choices down to a new or used X41 (non-tablet) or the X40. My backup choices were the T43 and the T60s. Very late in the game I found out about the X30 and from there found the X31. What a revelation. Small and light (12 and ~3.2 lbs without extras), gigE (most but not all models), built-in wifi ranging from 802.11b to 802.11 a/b/g and of course bluetooth. Even better, they go for between ~US$400 (no cd/dvd add-on) to ~US$1000 (everything, often including an extra battery) and frequently have some warranty left on them. Best - 2.5 hard drive. I've used laptops with 4200 rpm hard drives and have not been happy with the performance. I imagine the X40/41 1.8 4200 rpm drives perform better than the old 2.5 4200 rpm drives of the past due to large caches but nothing like a 5400 or 7200 rpm drive. That's not to mention that the 1.8 drives just won't scale as fast in storage density, though for me that's just not a big deal. This is a *portable*, not a desktop replacement. I found a pretty good deal on ebay. I got an X31 with a 1.6 ghz Pentium 4m, 512 MB ram, USB 2.0, firewire, pc-card and pcmcia slots, crappy 40 MB 4200 drive (promptly replaced), internal modem, power adapter and battery that still fully charges and runs for hours, 802.11b wifi (upgrade, here I come) and an IBM next-business-day warranty good until February of next year. I got it for US$611. The screen is perfect; the keyboard shows no wear -- even the spacebar -- all key labels are clean and new looking; the screen hinges are as tight and smooth as if brand new; the exterior had a few light scratches on the battery/sleep indicator and some minor scratches/scuffs on the bottom. All in all, excellent condition. My initial impressions were and continue to be that this is one nice laptop. I'm really impressed with the usability of this laptop, especially for a 12. The keyboard is one of the best I've used even compared to larger 14 and 15 laptops. I was a bit hesitant to buy a laptop without a trackpad, thinking I'd hate the eraser head but have changed my mind. I really like it. Installing OpenBSD (3.8) went pretty quick. Because it's an ultralight, the X31 doesn't come with an optical drive. The BIOS, though, has excellent support for booting from USB optical or floppy drives. OpenBSD booted right up and the install was smooth. The only challenge was in getting the drive setup correctly so I could hibernate the system. The online help and man pages got me past that with little trouble. X works without additional configuration unless you want anti-aliased fonts. The three mouse buttons map perfectly to their expected uses. I'm currently using the default fvwm window manager but may move to one of my