One geometry cannot be more true than another; it can only be more convenient.
Geometry is not true, it is advantageous.
(RMP)
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:18 AM, david buchanan wrote:
dmb quoted both of Pirsig's books:
Definitions are the FOUNDATION of reason. You can't reason
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:18 AM, david buchanan wrote:
dmb:
To define gravity as the opposite of all that is non-gravity, as Marsha
did, is just convoluted nonsense. It's a pointless logic loop whereby the
term in question is twice negated so that one simply does a full circle right
back to
Definitions are the FOUNDATION of reason. You can't reason without them.
(Emphasis is Pirsig's. ZAMM, page 214.)
A metaphysics must be divisible, definable and knowable, or there isn't any
metaphysics. (Pirsig in Lila, page 64.)
Ron:
Note to interested
An advantage for what?
Discussing illusions plays such a big role in the Perfection of Wisdom
literature because the Buddhist texts state that there is a close connection
between the existence of illusion and the existence of suffering. According to
the Buddhist worldview, the
Ron,
I prefer better 'pragmatic' with a small p.
The Metaphysics of Quality is not intended to be within any philosophic
tradition, although obviously it was not written in a vacuum. My first
awareness that it resembled James' work came from a magazine review long after
“Zen and the Art of
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:33 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
[Einstein] Man can do what he will but he cannot will
what he wills).
If it is true that woman/man can do what s/he will,
this is sufficient for free will. Craig
This is sufficient for will, but what are you adding when you
An advantage for what?
Discussing illusions plays such a big role in the Perfection of Wisdom
literature because the Buddhist texts state that there is a close connection
between the existence of illusion and the existence of suffering. According to
the Buddhist worldview, the
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Hi Dan,
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:07 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Marsha said:
...at the moment, I think the best answer would be:
all-that-is-opposite-from-non-gravitation, and I
Hi David B.,
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:18 AM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
dmb quoted both of Pirsig's books:
Definitions are the FOUNDATION of reason. You can't reason without them.
(Emphasis is Pirsig's. ZAMM, page 214.)
A metaphysics must be divisible, definable and
Great topic Steve,
I think Harris is drawing his conclusions based apon the application
of the basic general primary explanation of the good, the act of preference
to defend the notion that freewill is not present because we are composed
of various levels of prejudical choices.
It seems illogical
Then perhaps the discussion is not for you, just because it was not intended to
be within a philosophical tradition does not mean that it is'nt a part of that
tradition.
of thought.
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011
Go ahead, Ron, present a hypothesis that uses Pirsig's
notion of Quality to illuminate James's notion of pure
experience. I'm sure I will find it very interesting. Or
maybe not.
On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:55 AM, X Acto wrote:
Then perhaps the discussion is not for you, just because it
Discussing illusions plays such a big role in the Perfection of Wisdom
literature because the Buddhist texts state that there is a close connection
between the existence of illusion and the existence of suffering. According to
the Buddhist worldview, the existence of suffering is neither a
you will not.
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 11:04:36 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Words and concepts
Go ahead, Ron, present a hypothesis that uses Pirsig's
notion of Quality to illuminate James's notion of pure
I wonder about having to endure difficulties and suffering. Are they
identical?
On Jun 10, 2011, at 11:19 AM, X Acto wrote:
Discussing illusions plays such a big role in the Perfection of Wisdom
literature because the Buddhist texts state that there is a close connection
Marsha said:
The advantage I find in considering pattern-x in the form
all-that-is-opposite-from-non(pattern-x) is to prevent my mind from falling
into the trap of thinking some superficial, reified definition (thoughts,
concepts, words or equations) is the full pattern. While definitions
Dmb.
Whether you understand my post or don't means nothing to me. Whether you agree
with me or not means nothing to me. I gave it my best shot. Criticize me to
your heart's content, I don't much care.
Marsha
On Jun 10, 2011, at 1:02 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Marsha said:
On Jun 10, 2011, at 1:02 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Like the man says, and like every reasonable person knows, metaphysics must
be definable, divisible and knowable or there isn't any metaphysics.
Since a metaphysics is essentially a kind of dialectical definition and since
Quality is
[Mark]
In many ways physics is a form of mysticism. Just because many of us
agree that it presents a reality does not make it any more real than
mysticism. In fact, as a radical empiricist, I would think that you
would see mysticsm as more real than physics.
Reality isn't the sort of
Hi Ron,
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:49 AM, X Acto xa...@rocketmail.com wrote:
Great topic Steve,
I think Harris is drawing his conclusions based apon the application
of the basic general primary explanation of the good, the act of preference
to defend the notion that freewill is not present
On Jun 10, 2011, at 1:02 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Like the man says, and like every reasonable person knows,
metaphysics must be definable, divisible and knowable or
there isn't any metaphysics.
Since a metaphysics is essentially a kind of dialectical definition
and since Quality is
On Jun 10, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Ham Priday wrote:
dmb says:
Like the man says, and like every reasonable person knows,
metaphysics must be definable, divisible and knowable or
there isn't any metaphysics.
Marsha offered the RMP quote:
Since a metaphysics is essentially a kind of
Hi Ham and all,
A blind, deaf mute can't see or hear. Does he have any way of defining his
experience? Maybe a definition of metaphysics is beyond words, outside of
definitions, just experience. The metaphysics of experience?
Joe
On 6/10/11 12:00 PM, Ham Priday hampd...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Ron --
After complimenting Steve on resurrecting this topic, you said:
I think Harris is drawing his conclusions based apon the
application of the basic general primary explanation of the
good, the act of preference to defend the notion that freewill
is not present because we are composed
Hi Ham and All,
Pirsig correctly saw that subjective individuality is indefinable DQ. Why
isn't Absolute Value indefinable DQ. If it were DQ that certainly explains
why we see through a glass darkly when discussing reality.
Joe
On 6/10/11 1:04 PM, Ham Priday hampd...@verizon.net wrote:
Dear Joe,
What in the heck are you going on about?
Mark
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Ham and all,
A blind, deaf mute can't see or hear. Does he have any way of defining his
experience? Maybe a definition of metaphysics is beyond words, outside
Hi Ham,
Pirsig was just pointing out the pitfalls of creating a metaphysics on
the ineffable. He then does his best to provide a basis for it.
Mark
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Ham Priday hampd...@verizon.net wrote:
On Jun 10, 2011, at 1:02 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Like the man says,
Hi Steve,
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
[Mark]
In many ways physics is a form of mysticism. Just because many of us
agree that it presents a reality does not make it any more real than
mysticism. In fact, as a radical empiricist, I would
Hi Joe,
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Mark,
I do not know your take on evolution which seems to be a part of the MOQ.
To a mathematician I guess words are not numbers. I wonder, are there
further levels in evolution beside mathematicians?
Hi Marsha,
Yes, it is possible to classify based on everything that is and is not
gravity. I am not sure how useful this is.
I have been reading about mono-atomic gold (or gold powder) recently.
It appears to have anti-gravitation properties (amongst other
properties). This was demonstrated in
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
On 6/8/11 4:43 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Joe,
The dynamic does not manifest, it IS.
Hi Mark,
I suppose there can be an unmanifest dynamic, but then how would I know?
Words are useless in terms of the
Hello everyone
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:35 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
On Jun 8, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
Hello everyone
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:07 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Marsha said:
...at the moment, I think the best answer would be:
Hello everyone
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:28 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Greetings again Dan,
On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:35 AM, MarshaV wrote:
On Jun 8, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
Hello everyone
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:07 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Hello everyone
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:15 AM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:07 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Marsha said:
...at the moment, I
Hello everyone
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Ham and all,
A blind, deaf mute can't see or hear. Does he have any way of defining his
experience? Maybe a definition of metaphysics is beyond words, outside of
definitions, just experience. The
Hello everyone
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:15 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
On Jun 10, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Ham Priday wrote:
dmb says:
Like the man says, and like every reasonable person knows,
metaphysics must be definable, divisible and knowable or
there isn't any metaphysics.
Good evening Mark and Joe --
Since we seem to be drawn into a three-way conversation on these topics, I
might as well try to kill two birds with one stone.
On 6/8/11 4:43 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Joe,
The dynamic does not manifest, it IS.
IF the dynamic is what I call
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