3D printer is very handy for things like this.
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The datasheet I found online for the IN-4 has these values, so your
resistor value will need to be increased somewhat. Remember - This is the
operating voltage, not the ionization voltage (which is always higher).
operating voltage Voltage drop V 150
Cathode current nominal Cathode current
The exact anode voltage is not critical; it needs to be high enough to
ensure the tube is reliably ionized over the life of the tube. 200 volts is
a good value.
What matters the most is the *current*. If the current is too high, the
tube's life will be reduced. If the current is too low, the
I think "Panaplex" is a trademark from Beckmann/Burroughs for the
multiplexed display technology they were promoting in the 1970s as the
battled with up-and-coming LEDs .
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Cant be legitimate bidding; these tubes are neither large nor shown
operating. Notice 1 bidder keeps pushing the price up.
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I meant to say "humiliating"
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I've done a fair amount of work with flyback converters, or minor variants.
The other circuit looks like some kind of self-oscillating topology, and I
have not done anything with those other than build a Radio Shack kit with
one back in the early 1970's.
I really wish manufacturers would
I dont recommend line-operated designs unless you've done some previous
design work at high-ish voltages. There are a lot of not-obvious things
that go wrong (line noise, transients, component failure, inadequate
isolation) with very bad consequences.
If you have done a lot of past designs, I
Sounds like your transformer is saturating; common problem with small
magnetics.
I used an LPR6235-123 from Coilcraft in my wristwatch. They sell to
end-users in small quantities, which is nice.
Even though it only ran for 7 seconds at a time, it still overheated at 7mA
load but it's a
Switching the anodes is what multiplexing does, the advantage being that
you can share the cathode logic across several tubes. But with savings,
there is also a hidden cost: You must run the anode current higher for
multiplexed operation versus direct-drive. If the tube is specifically
How many years was it running before a segment burned-out ? Or maybe you've
yet to see one fail ?
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Doh! You're supposed to use the upside-down "bat nixies" for that clock.
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Tugging on parts before they are properly unsoldered causes the most damage.
Use a suction-type desoldering tool (Edsyn Soldapult has been my favorite
for almost 40 years now). First, apply a small amount of fresh solder as it
will help heat the joint more uniformly. Then suck away as much
I guess it all depends upon whether or not you are a purist with unlimited
money and patience. Auctions are so rare for these devices that it will
take years to get a set of 6 for a clock.
The RZ568m (Dalibor's tube) is essentially the same height (50mm) vs 54mm
for the CD27. For less than the
I use plain old NE-2 bulbs, and 3D-print a holder for them, with a dark
(black) colored material.
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Nice try! I have not had much luck melting a nixie tube with a torch and
careful uniform heating. There's always some place where the glass has too
high a temperature gradient, usually the base, so it cracks. I think you
would need to heat-soak the tube at the annealing temperature for a few
I'm looking for a dead CD47 for my nixie-tube display-case project (desktop
museum); physical damage is OK though I wont pay as much.
I have a dead b7971 (cracked glass at the base) already.
Reply privately if you have one you are willing to sell. Thanks in advance.
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I have 14 IN-18 tubes running in my clock for a few years now, with no
failures. *They are a good quality tube*.
Be careful when socketing them, because the pin material is a soft metal
that bends easily.
The light surface corrosion on the pins is harmless, and I dont recommend
trying to clean
Series resistor on filaments will also reduce the surge-current when the
segment is turned-on, greatly extending the lifetime.
>From what I've researched on tube filaments, reducing the surge-current
during turn-on (ie, adding series resistance) is the best way to extend
lifetime.
There
I was expecting to see the Z568M prices plummet when Dalibor started
selling; instead I just see fewer for sale and always at a higher price.
BTW, I was finally able to convince my wife I should investigate the
RZ568M, so now I'm going to test the balance between my addiction and my
wallet.
It's a harsh fact of finite-supply vs demand . Eventually, the price will
get high enough that someone will come along start manufacturing these
beasts, and others, I'm sure.
I just visited Dalibor's website, and he's produced more than 7200 tubes,
and has managed to make a profit, though he's
Saw incandescent stock tickers in-action during a brokerage visit in my 3rd
grade class. It ran so hot that they had noisy fans sucking-in the air
around the bulbs so it wouldn't overheat the office. That was 50 years
ago.I vaguely recall a much smaller panel of nixie displays, but they
So it looks like the cathodes are poisoned (dark areas), and where they are
still glowing, the metal has deposited nearby.
I wonder if you can depoison them with high current, and coax the metal to
redeposit at the bottom of the display by leaving it vertical, where the
temperature is lowest.
I tried heating one of my tubes with this shiny interior coating, and it
would not turn to gas. The pressure inside a nixie is fairly low, so I
thought that if this was mercury, it should have boiled-off, but it didn't.
Perhaps it is a different metal; I'm not going to break it open to find
The DT1704 appears to have 2 parallel filaments inside; if one of those is
open, it will definitely affect the shape of the electric field and how the
electrons get to the segment anodes.
Do the bad tubes have higher filament resistance compared to the good tubes
?
You should be able to
#1 Make sure you are purchasing new units from a reputable supplier; there
are fake parts out there that are poor quality. Never re-use salvaged
electrolytics.
#2 Heat will shorten the life of any electrolytic; it only takes a few
well-placed vent holes to keep things cool.
#3 Not all
I have clocks with both tubes (5092 and 6091). The 6091 should be operated
at higher current (3mA vs 2.2mA), and has a larger diameter than the 5092,
but is otherwise electrically equivalent. I do my own designs, so I dont
know if kits exist.
While the 6091's are bigger, I dont think they are
It's almost as though there is a floating grid in the tube. Can you see any
physical differences between good and bad tubes ?
There isn't a specific grid pin for the DT1704 VFD; I have some large VFDs
that do have a grid, and it uses a surprisingly large current.
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Board-layout with the HV5530 can be an issue, so I connect the tube-pins to
the easiest route on the driver IC. That gives a clean board layout (zero
feedthrus for tube signals) but scrambles-up the bits. Unscrambling them
in RTL code or software is easy, though.
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+1 for the HV5530
I have a 14-tube clock with IN-18's driven by six HV5530's, and have had no
issues other than some mild cathode poisoning (my fault) which is easily
cured.
I strongly recommend using a level-translator IC when controlling the
HV5530 from 3.3/5.0 VDC controllers; others have
Strattman authored a good book on neon design (Neon Techniques);
recommended reading.
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I would put a RaspberryPi as the main controller; it can get time from the
network via built-in WiFi and all of the control software can be
updated/modified by the end-user. Since it's a Linux-based platform with
remote login via VNC, there's no limit to the kinds of applications that
can be
WARNING: This product may become addictive.
At least nixie tubes are a *healthy* addiction. I think everyone in this
forum thrives on the new creations, misadventures, and shared knowledge.
I enjoyed the conspiracy theories, but in the end we're all happy you got
your tubes. Just be sure to
I recall Poly-Paks selling 7971 units back in the mid 1970's; one of those
barrel deals where I guess they literally had barrels of these things. I
cant tell you how many times I've kicked myself in the face for not buying
any of them. I'm guessing most of these came from brokerage houses that
Supply and demand...
Personally, I think 7971's are butt-ugly, but they are so gigantic it's
hard to resist. I was going to bid on that pair because I need a
replacement, but not at that price.
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I tend to use higher voltage transformers, in the 8-12VAC range, full-wave
rectifiers + filter-cap, then use switching-regulators that are
pin-compatible replacements for the popular LDO regulators. They are 90%+
efficient, and therefore generate almost no measurable heat.
If the current is
The required voltage rating of a cathode driver has been debated in this
forum a few times. There are 2 opinions that I know of
- The driver needs to be rated at the full anode-supply voltage
- The driver only needs to be rated at (Anode_supply_voltage -
Voltage_drop_across_nixie_tube)
At roughly 100 USD per tube, that's going to empty a few wallets.
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For direct-drive, you can just let the cathodes float, and they will be
completely dark unless your driver has leakage. I've done 5 full designs
with direct-drive that floats the cathode, and none has any issues. All
told, there are 52 nixie devices in operation with no hint of failure or
Too bad we wont be around for the Y10K debacle; that's going to be
hilarious. Better hurry, we've only got 7980 years to prevent that
train-wreck..
Even the DS3231's are supposed to be good till 2199. Who knows, maybe some
of our nixie clocks will still be working then.
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The 'opto' means there is electrical isolation between the control inputs,
and the other terminals. The input (control) side of an opto-triac looks
and behaves like an LED, except the LED is buried inside the package and
not visible.
For the 'triac', it behaves similar to SPST normally-open
I'd recommend driving neon bulbs from an AC source to maximize their
lifetime; opto-triacs work nicely. I think I paid about 0.75 USD each for
MOC3023.
Another neonixie member posted a clever way to apply a square-wave to the
neon bulb using 2 transistors + 2 resistors; it uses a bit more
Nice video. The modular construction is a great idea.
How snugly do the pins get held into the socket cups ? I was ultra-paranoid
about pin-stress so I literally numbered my b7971's for a specific
location, put the socket pins on the tube, and then soldered. Each "socket"
was customized to
Probably would not want that thing in your bedroom when it rolls-over at 1
AM..
Definitely would be a great desk clock for the workplace.
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How long does the battery last on 1 charge ?
My bench-test nixie watch has been running for 4 years now on it's original
battery charge, and the battery came from my cellphone after several years
of usage.
Not a typo, I literally have not added any charge to that battery for 4
years now.
Here's the book list
- Neon techniques (Strattman)
- Neon Engineer's Notebook (Crook & Fishman)
- Neon Superguide (Caba)
Not nixie, but overall very informative and will help you understand the
process & techniques
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On a whim, I did a search on helium leak-detection and came across this
document link which is helpful info:
https://www.leyboldproducts.com/media/pdf/90/c7/87/Fundamentals_of_Leak_Detection_EN.pdf
Leaks will kill nixies, so be sure to understand them.
Several years ago I was researching neon
Better check the accuracy of your frequency measurement; an error of 67 Hz
will throw you off about 7 seconds per hour, or about 1.5 hours per month.
The DS32xx devices do have a trimming register to handle timing-offset, but
I've never used it.
What amazes me is how many of these fake RTCs
Be extra careful about ESD/surge events; the automotive electrical
environment is quite nasty, especially in older vehicles that have
mechanical voltage regulators.
Depending upon where you tap the power & ground, your circuit can be
affected by large di/dt events, such as starting, charging,
Are you using any discrete A/D converters, or are you using one already
integrated into a microcontroller ?
I found a lot of quirks with the 16-channel A/D on my current project, so
ping me if you want to learn from my war stories.
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This is where a curve-tracer really comes in-handy. Sadly, even old used
ones are a bit expensive compared to scopes from the same era.
I've been tempted many times over the years to design my own, but like most
projects I dream-up I never get time to build them.
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Considering only 3 USD has been pledged so far, they have a long way to go
and there isn't a lot of confidence from investors.
They should have several batches of tubes running thru burn-in, and I did
not see that in the video; I dont know how they can backup a 15 year
warranty if tube
Would you consider an A-101 ? It runs bidirectionally.
I use oshpark for small PCB's (under 4 square inches), and pcbway for
larger boards. I believe pcbway can do some cleanup, etc of your PCB layout
per their website. I cant comment on their abilities here; I do the full
PCB design myself.
After you've done a perfboard project, I suggest you design your own small
PCB and fab it thru a low-cost manufacturer such as www.oshpark.com
For $5 USD per square-inch, you get 3 boards including shipping, so it's an
inexpensive way to explore if you want to do larger boards, and if you want
Here is a link I found :
https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/physics/p616/safety/fatal_current.html
The fatal current range is 100-200mA . How they determined this is probably
an ethical question.
As you said, having series resistance is what can save you, unless you
touch the other side, such as
Are you seeing residual glow on digits/segments, aka ghosting ? If so, you
will want to bias the inactive anodes to a voltage below the sustaining
voltage.
There are several threads in this forum about ghosting with multiplexed
displays
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I peeked at some ILC1-1/7 listed on Ebay, and there was a photo with a tape
measure showing "14" .
My heart skipped a few beats, then I realized it was *centimeters*, not
inches. Still, these things are gigantic.
They would make an interesting "see-thru" clock.
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On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 3:27:25 PM UTC-8, Tomasz Kowalczyk wrote:
>
> > I think that the highly positive grid voltage allows to make electron
> "beam" hit all anode areas more evenly. If I recall correctly, in some
> older VFDs you could see that anodes glow slightly brighter >under
I just received some ILC1-1/8 VFD's (large-ish 7 segment Soviet era, approx
100mm tall) and did some basic testing.
I was very surprised to see a large current on the grid, on the order of
30-40mA, whereas the segment current was around 5mA when glowing nicely.
I havn't dabbled with vacuum
Make sure you test the DCDC converter under full-load. Every one of these
I've ever designed & built always worked beautifully under low load, and as
the load increases all sorts of gremlins start creeping out of the jungle.
Some of them are easy to spot, like overheating. Others require you to
BTW, I have used PLA for mounting small power transformers, with no issues.
I just put a lot of ventilation holes on the sides and bottom for
convection current.
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Most of the heat for the CRT should be from the filament; This is what I
found online
Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.31 Ampere / Indirec
That amounts to about 2 watts; the anode power is much smaller.
If you provide louvers on the case so that natural convection can remove
the warm air, you should be OK
The advantage and importance of the series anode resistor is that it makes
your anode current more predictable. Without the resistor, your anode
current will be determined primarily by the tube's characteristics, which
vary over time and tube-to-tube, ie unpredictable. I think that tube
Assuming the 170VDC supply is not adjustable, you can easily put another DC
supply in-series with it. There are a variety of small DCDC converters
available with isolated outputs; just connect the (-) output of the
converter to +170VDC, and power your nixies from the (+) output. A +24VDC
Welcome to the group; I assume no responsibility if you get addicted to
nixie tubes, and all sorts of vintage display devices.
Be very careful about how much current you pass thru a nixie; too much will
cause premature wearout and too-little can result in cathode poisoning.
Also, be aware that
Just to elaborate a bit more, the individual segment currents of a b7971
are different, due to different lengths. Since these tubes are getting
quite rare, not to mention expensive, I also recommend anode-current
limiting in addition to the individual cathode drivers. Per the datasheet,
the
I use whatever I can find a Lowes/Home Depot , and stain it. Most of the
fine solid woods are birch or poplar.
Beware of the large 4x8 sheets that are a laminate, because when you sand
them, the top-layer is so thin it sands-away. BUTthe next layer down is
thick enough to tolerate
For now I'm going to hold off on any experiments that require code-changes.
I'll keep this RTC chip online for additional experiments; known-good RTC
will go into the second board-set.
It appears the alarm registers are testable with software; I dont have the
INT/SQW pin connected in my system.
When I looked at the raw data from the RTC, which is in packed BCD format,
I could clearly see that my code was not properly parsing it. I believe it
was Sep 30--> Oct 01 where I calculated the wrong month.
The Jan 01 rollover bug has incorrect BCD data from the RTC itself.
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It comes up as 09/01/2017. I'll keep this RTC online for a few more weeks,
as the system debug is almost done.
There was another rollover a few months ago where the date was messed-up,
but I traced that to a software bug that was my fault.
[image: ScreenHunter_15 Jan. 02 06.48.jpg]
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Label says DS3231, but it's definitely fake.
I have 2 other clocks with genuine DS3231's (purchased from DigiKey), and
they have behaved as expected for years.
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Happy New Year, unless you rely on the dirt-chip RTC module I bought
several months ago, because today would be Sept 2, 2018.
WHAT ??? That's the date my RTC chip reported this morning: 09/02/2018
Last night, before midnight and right after I got tired of writing
software, it was correct at
I just bought 7 of these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-ILC1-1-8L-Giant-Big-VFD-Display-Tube-Nixie-Clock/192764920216?hash=item2ce1af4198:g:VdcAAOSwjodZ7hQR:rk:1:pf:0
for yet another future clock project.
Has anyone here built a device with these ? I couldn't resist the $10 USD
price for a display
Power (heat) is your enemy, so the first thing to determine your maximum
power requirements. I usually start with a spreadsheet. I've used things
ranging from small resistors, to large light bulbs. Even a 5 gallon bucket
of salty water.
Pick some voltage & current targets, and plot the power
Paul - Can you post some details about the hot-air soldering/reflow you did
?
I'm soldering my SMT devices manually by hand because my casual
experimenting with a heat-gun got bubbled PCBs and very hot (and probably
damaged) ICs.
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I've had 2 types of black tubes
- Uniform fine black film over the entire face of the tube. I dont think
these are recoverable.
- Black opaque splotch on tube; I've seen watched the splotch dissolve
in some areas, and deposit in others. Hoping I can use a magnet to relocate
the
I have some that are dual-marked 5092/6844, and never noticed any failures.
Luckily, most of mine are genuine Burroughs 5092.
On a related note, I have a few 6091 (the next-size up from a 5092) and
those show darkening inside the glass, which I'm certain is sputtered-away
cathode material that
Some of the parts have date-codes; looks like 1984 to 1986. Maybe
post-Chernobyl equipment ??
Nice workmanship
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Ten-each of 100W power resistors on Ebay of various sizes (10 ohm,
100-ohm, 1k ohm) for a future decade box. That will give you any resistance
value from 10 ohms to 10K, and will handle any reasonable load for any HV
supply I ever expect to build. For now they can be connected with jumper
and there's no limit, other than your imagination, to what gets
displayed. Purple LED ? yellow-and-blue striped NIMO ? Green nixie ? You
get the idea.
But it still seems like cheating. Would my wife have known if I gave her a
cubic zirconia ring, instead of diamond ?
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I guess it all amounts to this: Are you Steve Wozniak, or are you Steve
Jobs ?
Having a day job as a EE, when I have time to work on projects during
nights & weekends, it's just for fun and learning.
But if I started selling kits, etc, it would become a second job and dont
think I would find
Be careful about simply increasing the inductance, because that can
actually reduce the amount of energy-per-cycle, hence the power, assuming
constant frequency.
Energy = 1/2 LI^2, and from V = Ldi/dt , you can infer energy-per-cycle =
1/2 (V^2) * (T^2)/L
In other words, to increase the
Also, be sure to use a scope and look carefully through the design. The
switching device (most likely a MOSFET) is susceptible to voltage
overstress, so make sure the drain-source voltage is not exceeded, and
especially not the gate-source voltage because it is a very thin oxide that
can only
Most likely., the inductor is exceeding it saturation current. That is the
point where additional current does not add much magnetic energy, and at
that point you will see an increase in lost energy (heat).
Try an inductor witrh the same inductance, and a higher Isat rating.
My experience with
I have a Soviet-era A101 that has been spinning at 1 revolution/second 24/7
for more than 5 years, with no hint of degradation. Spin-direction should
not have any effect on lifetime; mine changes direction at the
top-of-the-hour.
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Jens - Can you install any 220V outlets in your garage ? Typical setup in
US/Canada is for homes to have 3 incoming wires (120V-neutral-120v). Most
outlets are 120V, which is across the neutral line and either of the 120V
"hot" leads. To get 240VAC, use both 'hot' leads.. At the
Perfect solution is a supply that is 100% efficient and gives 1.1V @ 1200mA
(power for 6 NIMO tubes), and magically limits the current to 200mA.
Nothing will ever be this good; it's just a reference point for
cost-comparison.
The FPGA solution I described is an added feature for the 2.5V
If you want absolute minimum energy consumption, then you will want to ramp
the power supply, etc. I looked at a lot of tradeoffs and calculated the
cost of energy for each.
Circuit/component costs were not modeled.
I have the option of soft-starting my 2.5V filament transformer, because
it's
On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 at 4:59:29 AM UTC-7, Dekatron42 wrote:
>
> @gregebert: Isn’t there a risk of flash-over if you don’t use high voltage
> resistors for the anode connection?
These are series resistors which normally have only a minimal voltage-drop
across them, typ
I recommend small series resistors for each anode; I'm using 100K SMT
devices and with a 30uA load-current per tube that's a negligible 3V drop
across the resistor.
It allows you to measure tube-current, but be careful as it's 2kV.
Also helps reduce the zap if something shorts-out unexpectedly,
>
> @gregebert - Do you have to take the fuse resistance into account in your
> circuit to maintain a centered heater voltage (I guess so as the fuse
> resistance can be several ohms with high speed low current fuses)?
>
> Eventually, yes. Right now I have safe-en
Congratulations on acquiring 6 NIMOs !!
I've gone thru all the NIMO filament analysis and came up with the
following, which I have implemented in my design
1. Transformer is 2.5V CT, 3A. Triad F301X.. It has dual primaries so it
can operate on 115 or 230 VAC mains.
2. Series fuse 250mA (BEL
Build a gonculator. I didn't realize it, but 'Gonculator Day' has just
passed by (Oct 5).
Rummage thru your junkbox of unused electronic gizmos that you've never had
the heart to throw away, and build something utterly useless that looks
very cool.
And make sure every component does something,
Probably coincidence; I get very little spam and I dont have extra
filtering set.
As far as I know, your email address is not disclosed until you send a
private message to a neonixie member, and even then only to the member you
are contacting.
Group admins have the ability to view the email
I was surprised, and definitely pleased, that I could get several
Mbytes/sec thru a virtual 8-bit I/O port I implemented on my RasPi
(basically, an arbitrary collection of GPIO pins) to connect to a local
FPGA using the WiringPi library, and compiled-C as the software. No
glitches found on
*Jon* - Be sure to send a join-request to this group:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/hvps1-user-forum
I set this up for people who have the boards to ask questions, get the
documentation, etc.
Generally, all of the parts can be purchased from DigiKey, and you will
need to bend some
Sounds like this is trending to be a software issue, rather than a hardware
issue, but to be sure I have 1 simple suggestion:
Write a simple chunk of code to display a static number; there are 10 tubes
so I would display 0123456789. I cant tell from the video you posted what
is being displayed
A few years ago I designed my own nixie bench supply, and I gave away the
extra PCB's to interested neonixie members for the cost of shipping; no
more boards exist.
The most useful feature is the adjustable current-limit, in my case I use a
10-turn pot to adjust the current, from 0 to 20mA,
I'm starting a separate thread on this topic that was posted from the
introduction discussion
As with any serial shift-register, the biggest source of trouble is
timing-related, such as not accounting for setup and hold-time requirements.
*First question*: Are you able to get reliable and
The sockets email I got was from Yuriy; I'm on his list because I bought
some tubes from him recently.
It amazes me how many vintage devices he's acquired for resale.
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