Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

Your links are always deliciously disorientating Rob

This
*"This is culture’s stock exchange"*

from this
https://withfoundation.com/

is particularly so!

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 02:10 Rob Myers,  wrote:

> "Technology Can’t Predict Crime, It Can Only Weaponize Proximity to
> Policing" -
>
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/09/technology-cant-predict-crime-it-can-only-weaponize-proximity-policing


> "agnotology is a tool of oppression by the powerful" -
>
>
> https://points.datasociety.net/agnotology-and-epistemological-fragmentation-56aa3c509c6b


>
>
> "Our Phones Are Color Correcting the Apocalypse" -
>
>
> https://new-aesthetic.tumblr.com/post/628855319585488896/our-phones-are-color-correcting-the-apocalypse-in
>
>
> "An open-source VR headset"-
>
> https://www.relativty.com/
>
>
> Tokenized culture marketplace dashboard -
>
> https://withfoundation.com/
>
>
> Cory Doctorow on "IP" -
>
> https://locusmag.com/2020/09/cory-doctorow-ip/
>
>
> WhoWhatWearable -
>
> https://beta.cent.co/WhoWhatWearable/+1dxyga
>
>
> Recursive Life -
>
> http://blog.amandaghassaei.com/2020/05/01/the-recursive-universe/
>
>
> "Digital content on track to equal half Earth's mass by 2245" -
>
> https://phys.org/news/2020-08-digital-content-track-equal-earth.amp
>
>
> "Creative AI Lab [database]" -
>
> https://creative-ai.org/
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

> "Woman becomes First to launch Transgender Art Into Orbit" -
>
> https://planettransgender.com/woman-becomes-first-to-launch-transgender-art-into-orbit/


WOAH!


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*sending thanks

in
advance

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exhibitions,
labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
furtherfield.org 

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for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[AGF poemproducer]

thank you !!!
agee


> On 13 Jun 2020, at 02:31, Rob Myers  wrote:
> 
> 1000 games for 5USD! -
> 
> https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality
> 
> 
> CHAZ FAQ -
> 
> https://twitter.com/mklords/status/1271537186282717184?s=20
> 
> 
> JK Rowling is wrong about this (1) -
> 
> https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1270787941275762689?s=20
> 
> 
> JK Rowling is wrong about this (2) -
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2020/06/11/this-is-the-sequel-jk-rowling-doesnt-want-you-to-read/
> 
> 
> JK Rowling is wrong about this (3) -
> 
> https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/06/jk-rowling-transphobia-feminism
> 
> 
> 8 Fantasy Novels by Trans and Nonbinary Authors -
> 
> https://electricliterature.com/8-fantasy-novels-by-trans-and-nonbinary-authors/
> 
> 
> "IBM, Amazon Agree to Step Back From Face Recognition. Where Is
> Microsoft?" -
> 
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/06/ibm-amazon-end-and-pause-fr-programs-where-microsoft
> 
> 
> Games About Political Protest (via Class Wargames) -
> 
> https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/5669/games-about-political-protest
> 
> 
> Open Scores: How to Program the Commons (2020) -
> 
> https://monoskop.org/log/?p=22321
> 
> 
> The Poetics of CLI Command Names -
> 
> https://smallstep.com/blog/the-poetics-of-cli-command-names/
> 
> 
> The Contagion of Concern -
> 
> https://www.adamjuliangoldstein.com/blog/contagion-of-concern/
> 
> ___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-06-12 5:09 p.m., Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
> 
> And here is where the evil continues, just now:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/us/politics/trump-transgender-rights.html

Yes that is awful. As the article points out this legislation was:

"announced on the four-year anniversary of the massacre at a gay
nightclub in Orlando and in the middle of Pride Month."

There have been more murders of black trans women in the US as well
recently -

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dominique-fells-riah-milton-transphobia-new-calls/

And in the UK the Tories are being emboldened to roll back hard-won
protections for trans people.

So Rowling "just expressing valid concerns", as way too many people have
said to me over the last day or so, isn't happening in a vacuum. And
also is not actually in any way, shape or form "just expressing valid
concerns". She's playing on people's fears and sympathies while
repeating the battle-tested lies of anti-trans-rights extremists.

The Sun are still scum for what they have done to her though.

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour]

And here is where the evil continues, just now:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/us/politics/trump-transgender-rights.html

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 7:33 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

> 1000 games for 5USD! -
>
> https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality
>
>
> CHAZ FAQ -
>
> https://twitter.com/mklords/status/1271537186282717184?s=20
>
>
> JK Rowling is wrong about this (1) -
>
> https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1270787941275762689?s=20
>
>
> JK Rowling is wrong about this (2) -
>
>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2020/06/11/this-is-the-sequel-jk-rowling-doesnt-want-you-to-read/
>
>
> JK Rowling is wrong about this (3) -
>
> https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/06/jk-rowling-transphobia-feminism
>
>
> 8 Fantasy Novels by Trans and Nonbinary Authors -
>
>
> https://electricliterature.com/8-fantasy-novels-by-trans-and-nonbinary-authors/
>
>
> "IBM, Amazon Agree to Step Back From Face Recognition. Where Is
> Microsoft?" -
>
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/06/ibm-amazon-end-and-pause-fr-programs-where-microsoft
>
>
> Games About Political Protest (via Class Wargames) -
>
> https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/5669/games-about-political-protest
>
>
> Open Scores: How to Program the Commons (2020) -
>
> https://monoskop.org/log/?p=22321
>
>
> The Poetics of CLI Command Names -
>
> https://smallstep.com/blog/the-poetics-of-cli-command-names/
>
>
> The Contagion of Concern -
>
> https://www.adamjuliangoldstein.com/blog/contagion-of-concern/
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>


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*=*

*directory http://www.alansondheim.org  tel
718-813-3285**email sondheim ut panix.com , sondheim ut
gmail.com *
*=*
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Hi Alan,

David Spivak is who I've been reading mostly, but yes am early in understanding 
the full depths of category theory.  Familiar with Kerodon by name and general 
gist only.  I'm collaborating with some folks who have relevant degrees, but of 
course I don't.

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/category-theory-sciences

That said I do believe Calvino and Perec did use category theory in their 
literary work which makes me think it may be relevant.

Here is the kind of neuroscience references a friend has been sending me:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26193173/

So much to learn and so little time!

All best and happy Friday,

Max







From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Alan Sondheim 
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 6:30 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Links


The basics of category theory aren't that difficult to understand. It's
also somewhat easy to see where it applies, but to understand where it's
actually applicable, you have to dig deeper into the theory instead of
speculating from outside, I think.

What you're describing, Max, doesn't seem to hold; it's a very exact
discipline.

That said, there's this - https://kerodon.net/ - which I do not
understand, except that it's based on category theory and is reworking the
foundations of math; I think there was a Quanta article on it (but I may
be mistaken).

Neural network theory's been used by neuroscience of course, as well as
AI; the piece I put up yesterday is based on AI of course, bringing the
circulations and fractal resonances to the surface. I'd be careful about
taking difficult concepts and sending them into territory one knows,
without digging deeply into those concepts and understanding them.

There's a lot of simplified explanations of category theory itself out
there. Then there's topos theory which extends that...

Etc. etc., I am humble before mathematicians! :-)

Best!, Alan, be well!

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, Rob Myers wrote:

> On 2020-06-03 8:27 p.m., Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> I've been interested in category theory for a year or so, on a friend's
>> recommendation.? Where do you see it applying?? For me it relates to
>> mapping networks and to translating concepts and principles between
>> disciplines, and by a combination of these possibly art and literature.?
>> (It's even been applied to neuroscience I think.)
>
> I don't really know. :-)
>
> It seems very popular in computer science at the moment for the most
> trivial things that people seem to find mind-blowing, possibly because
> it puts them on a better theoretical foundation? So I feel I must be
> missing something. And that makes it interesting to me.
>
> I do like it as a way of talking about mappings, the isomorphisms that
> you mention.
>
> Other people do also seem to be applying it to interesting things -
>
> https://alpof.wordpress.com/
>
> And then there's -
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho7oagHeqNc
>
>> I have a few recent blogs at Leonardo.info about the ML grouped under
>> "The Mindful Mona Lisa" and a unique "bridge" theory I am trying to sort
>> out.? I've asked a lot of Leonardo experts and they say it's unique, but
>> wrong, though I'm not entirely convinced by their reasoning.? ?
>
> I think that to still be generating new theories after all this time
> says good things about both Leonardo's painting and the power of
> mathematics. :-)
>
> - Rob.
>
> ___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim]

The basics of category theory aren't that difficult to understand. It's 
also somewhat easy to see where it applies, but to understand where it's 
actually applicable, you have to dig deeper into the theory instead of 
speculating from outside, I think.


What you're describing, Max, doesn't seem to hold; it's a very exact 
discipline.


That said, there's this - https://kerodon.net/ - which I do not 
understand, except that it's based on category theory and is reworking the 
foundations of math; I think there was a Quanta article on it (but I may 
be mistaken).


Neural network theory's been used by neuroscience of course, as well as 
AI; the piece I put up yesterday is based on AI of course, bringing the 
circulations and fractal resonances to the surface. I'd be careful about 
taking difficult concepts and sending them into territory one knows, 
without digging deeply into those concepts and understanding them.


There's a lot of simplified explanations of category theory itself out 
there. Then there's topos theory which extends that...


Etc. etc., I am humble before mathematicians! :-)

Best!, Alan, be well!

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, Rob Myers wrote:


On 2020-06-03 8:27 p.m., Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:


Hi Rob,

I've been interested in category theory for a year or so, on a friend's
recommendation.? Where do you see it applying?? For me it relates to
mapping networks and to translating concepts and principles between
disciplines, and by a combination of these possibly art and literature.?
(It's even been applied to neuroscience I think.)


I don't really know. :-)

It seems very popular in computer science at the moment for the most
trivial things that people seem to find mind-blowing, possibly because
it puts them on a better theoretical foundation? So I feel I must be
missing something. And that makes it interesting to me.

I do like it as a way of talking about mappings, the isomorphisms that
you mention.

Other people do also seem to be applying it to interesting things -

https://alpof.wordpress.com/

And then there's -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho7oagHeqNc


I have a few recent blogs at Leonardo.info about the ML grouped under
"The Mindful Mona Lisa" and a unique "bridge" theory I am trying to sort
out.? I've asked a lot of Leonardo experts and they say it's unique, but
wrong, though I'm not entirely convinced by their reasoning.? ?


I think that to still be generating new theories after all this time
says good things about both Leonardo's painting and the power of
mathematics. :-)

- Rob.

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-06-03 8:27 p.m., Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> I've been interested in category theory for a year or so, on a friend's
> recommendation.  Where do you see it applying?  For me it relates to
> mapping networks and to translating concepts and principles between
> disciplines, and by a combination of these possibly art and literature. 
> (It's even been applied to neuroscience I think.)

I don't really know. :-)

It seems very popular in computer science at the moment for the most
trivial things that people seem to find mind-blowing, possibly because
it puts them on a better theoretical foundation? So I feel I must be
missing something. And that makes it interesting to me.

I do like it as a way of talking about mappings, the isomorphisms that
you mention.

Other people do also seem to be applying it to interesting things -

https://alpof.wordpress.com/

And then there's -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho7oagHeqNc

> I have a few recent blogs at Leonardo.info about the ML grouped under
> "The Mindful Mona Lisa" and a unique "bridge" theory I am trying to sort
> out.  I've asked a lot of Leonardo experts and they say it's unique, but
> wrong, though I'm not entirely convinced by their reasoning.  🙂

I think that to still be generating new theories after all this time
says good things about both Leonardo's painting and the power of
mathematics. :-)

- Rob.

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Hi Rob,

I've been interested in category theory for a year or so, on a friend's 
recommendation.  Where do you see it applying?  For me it relates to mapping 
networks and to translating concepts and principles between disciplines, and by 
a combination of these possibly art and literature.  (It's even been applied to 
neuroscience I think.)

However, what really caught my attention recently was that I realized after 
learning about category theory that a book I'd been studying for a while, Six 
Memos for the Next Millennium by Italo Calvino, includes elements of it (I 
think).  Calvino describes (Six Memos, pp. 121-22) in a discussion of Georges 
Perec's Life, a User's Manual how Perec based his novel on 42 categories and 
some secret "rules" which I assume are functors or transforms.  Perec's novel 
has some mathematical equations on page 7 which my friend, a mathematician, 
confirmed are from category theory.

The equations on page 7 mention isomorphism, a new word for me recently.  Then 
to my surprise I saw the same word in Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach, chapter 
4.  I had been reading GEB because Calvino references it in the Six Memos, and 
specifically chapter 4 because the title is "Consistency, Completeness, and 
Geometry."  I was drawn to chapter 4 because I have been looking up a lot of 
references to consistency because that is the title of the unwritten sixth 
memo.  I was veritably shocked to find in GEB ch. 4 discussion of not only 
isomorphism, but this quotation:  "In my opinion, in fact, the key element in 
answering the question 'What is consciousness?' will be the unraveling of the 
nature of the 'isomorphism' which underlies meaning."

The same chapter 4 also discusses Bach's Art of Fugue, and what it may mean 
that it was unfinished at the time of Bach's passing, in the context of Godel's 
Incompleteness Theorem.  In Calvino's discussion of Perec on pp. 121-22 he 
discusses the leaving of something unfinished (i.e. Perec's 99 chapters about 
an apartment building with 100 rooms).

I've asked tons of people about this but very few people understand or care 
about both Calvino and category theory.  (There was a recent piece in the LA 
Review of Books about some writers trying to speculate what "Consistency" might 
have been about, but none made any reference to GEB or category theory.  I even 
emailed Hofstadter himself!  He replied kindly that he had never heard of my 
speculation that Six Memos is referencing his GEB, and that he had heard of Six 
Memos but never read it.

This unlucky chain of inquiries has also got me asking about Leonardo's 
approach, because he said "art work is never finished, only abandoned," and 
used a method of "analogy" between disciplines that I think may be part of the 
ML. Then I wonder if the Mona Lisa is a work about his understanding of the 
'isomorphism' of consciousness?

I have a few recent blogs at Leonardo.info about the ML grouped under "The 
Mindful Mona Lisa" and a unique "bridge" theory I am trying to sort out.  I've 
asked a lot of Leonardo experts and they say it's unique, but wrong, though I'm 
not entirely convinced by their reasoning.  🙂

Be safe and well,

Max



From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 1:34 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Links

Research-based police reform -

https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224


How IBM and the NSA spied on MLK -

https://schmud.de/posts/2020-06-02-mlk.html


Surveillance self-defence for protestors -

https://twitter.com/EFF/status/1268246279143911426?s=20


"Top epidemiologist admits he got Sweden's COVID-19 strategy wrong" -

https://vancouversun.com/news/world/top-epidemiologist-admits-he-got-swedens-covid-19-strategy-wrong/wcm/e91435c3-3440-4309-ad5b-055974d9d8e3/


Software engineering at SpaceX (plus model rockets) -

https://yasoob.me/posts/software_engineering_within_spacex_launch/


"Digital and networked art in lockdown: how can we be creative in new
ways?" -

https://www.studiointernational.com/index.php/digital-and-networked-art-in-lockdown-how-can-we-be-creative-in-new-ways


Art + FinTech 2.0 -

https://www.unfoldbrics.art/art-fintech-2-0/overview


What is category theory anyway? -

https://www.math3ma.com/blog/what-is-category-theory-anyway


"How Does a Human Critique Art Made by AI?" -

https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/features/creative-ai-art-criticism-1202686003/


"The Virtual Economy" -

https://atelier.net/virtual-economy/


"TiddlyWiki as the original serverless" -

https://blog.fission.codes/tiddlywiki-as-the-original-serverless/


"Why Utopian Communities Fail" -

https://areomagazine.com/2018/03/08/why-utopian-communities-fail/


90s rave bangers -

https://soundcloud.com/zinc/zinc-tmiwt-93-pt1


GPT-3 is here -

https://thenextweb.com/neural/2020/05/29/openais-new-text-generator-writes-sad-poems-and-corrects-lousy-grammar/


"Ho

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-04-14 1:30 p.m., Max Herman wrote:
> 
> There has often been a degree of government support for certain kinds of
> art, and for some of the literature of that era too.  Who knows maybe
> even some of the literary theory.  🙂

The difference with the CIA theory is that the support was *secret*, and
(in the case of the Animal Farm movie) impacted the art in ways that the
artists were not happy with.

That said yes this is functionally equivalent to a continuation of
patronage of the arts by the power behind the throne, just from the
intelligence agencies rather than the church.

- Rob.



publickey - rob@robmyers.org.asc.pgp
Description: application/pgp-key


signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Hi Rob!

I once read a book called How New York Stole the Idea of Modern Art.  There has 
often been a degree of government support for certain kinds of art, and for 
some of the literature of that era too.  Who knows maybe even some of the 
literary theory.  🙂

All best,

Max



From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 3:03 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Links

"Conservators and computer scientists join forces to update older
internet works for today’s browsers" -

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/for-ageing-digital-art-survival-means-change


"Unique wartime footage of Bletchley Park's secret MI6 communications
staff discovered" -

https://bletchleypark.org.uk/news/unique-wartime-footage-of-bletchley-parks-secret-mi6-communications-staff-discovered


"IBM will offer free COBOL training to address overloaded unemployment
systems" -

https://www.inputmag.com/tech/ibm-will-offer-free-cobol-training-to-address-overloaded-unemployment-systems


"Launching the Open Knowledge Justice Programme" -

https://blog.okfn.org/2020/04/14/launching-the-open-knowledge-justice-programme/


"Art on Ethereum: a Beginner's Guide to Cryptoart Platforms" -

https://defiprime.com/cryptoart-on-ethereum


"Well Now WTF?" -

https://wellnow.wtf


"A.I. Art Valuation Is the Market’s Holy Grail. Here Are 7 Reasons Why
It’s Harder Than It Sounds" -

https://news.artnet.com/market/roadblocks-ai-art-valuation-1818471


"A growing list of Art for Isolation" -

https://medium.com/@willjennings80/coronaculture-7d35dc4a9c5d


"Machine Learning For Designers" -

https://medium.com/@AdobeDesignLab/machine-learning-for-designers-3b2acd253b8c


"Was Modern Art Really a CIA Psy-Op?" -

https://daily.jstor.org/was-modern-art-really-a-cia-psy-op/


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Yale has a network studies club for grad students but I think it's mostly about 
robots.  They don't approach it as an avenue for undergrad liberal arts, where 
I think it belongs better.  This is largely because undergrad curriculum is 
controlled by faculty, who have a vested interest in protecting their own 
departments as departments, their garments so to speak.  So intro courses 
perhaps are "the last to know."  It will be a brave school that first offers a 
Network Studies major in undergrad liberal arts.  But it will pay off, because 
it is between and among the disciplines that future progress will primarily 
occur.  Network Studies also fosters G, which is needed most for both 
prosperity and for disaster management.  One institution is interested but they 
want me to write the curriculum for them and that is time-prohibitive, myself 
lacking a PhD period much less one in curricular design.

I do wonder if Plant described the ML as a network map with technology as a 
garment for the human agent.  Whether or no, I think a true network map 
interpretation of the ML could be a significant Netbehavior product and 
starting point for a Network Studies major in honor of Leonardo's 500th year.  
I will try to read the Plant book but my reading list and brain capacity are 
rather full through May, and to be honest I quail before much digital theory.  
Perhaps because it sometimes seems to gaslight me that there was never an 
analog network, or one before humans, but if a loom counts as a computer maybe 
Plant does not partake of that too much.  As to the Gibson, which I have also 
not read and probably cannot bring myself to before writing my own ML essay, I 
sometimes suspect what I am envisioning is more like underdrive.  🙂






From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 6:24 PM
To: netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org 
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

On 2020-03-09 3:38 p.m., Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> Conversation-worthy links as always!

Thank you!

> Regarding the story about Yale changing their intro to art history
> course, it makes sense to me.

Yes I think this is a good thing for much the same reasons you give.

Putting my "They Live" glasses on for a moment, it's interesting to me
that such a key site of the social reproduction of American hegemony
feels that it must change what art means to that culture in order to
satisfy the needs of its ruling- and administrative- class consumers. Or
to put it another way: "Art means different things to different
cultures", yes, go on... ;-)

> I wonder if the Sadie Plant link on technology (art and science) as
> weaving might corroborate that those are mapped to ML's garment via the
> bridge, rivers, cognitive-historical cycles, etc.?  According to some
> traditions clothing was literally the first technology.  🙂

Plant's work is long overdue a wider rediscovery, and I think you
identify a great link here. Plant discusses the Mona Lisa (and of course
William Gibson's "Mona Lisa Overdrive" given the era) in "Zeros and Ones".

- Rob.

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-03-09 3:38 p.m., Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:
> 
> Conversation-worthy links as always!

Thank you!

> Regarding the story about Yale changing their intro to art history
> course, it makes sense to me.

Yes I think this is a good thing for much the same reasons you give.

Putting my "They Live" glasses on for a moment, it's interesting to me
that such a key site of the social reproduction of American hegemony
feels that it must change what art means to that culture in order to
satisfy the needs of its ruling- and administrative- class consumers. Or
to put it another way: "Art means different things to different
cultures", yes, go on... ;-)

> I wonder if the Sadie Plant link on technology (art and science) as
> weaving might corroborate that those are mapped to ML's garment via the
> bridge, rivers, cognitive-historical cycles, etc.?  According to some
> traditions clothing was literally the first technology.  🙂 

Plant's work is long overdue a wider rediscovery, and I think you
identify a great link here. Plant discusses the Mona Lisa (and of course
William Gibson's "Mona Lisa Overdrive" given the era) in "Zeros and Ones".

- Rob.



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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Conversation-worthy links as always!

Regarding the story about Yale changing their intro to art history course, it 
makes sense to me.  There's just no substance left for defending this 
particular version of flat-earth cosmology, so why bother?  Even on its own 
terms it is dismantling itself and was never meant to become what we've made it 
into.  In fact, what we've made it into by teaching it the way we have, 
rendering it almost useless by forcing it to do what it was never meant to do, 
has already been tantamount to abolishing it!

Art history was always meant to be about networks and time but in our myopia 
we've manufactured it into a lot of marketing gobbledygook.  Frankly I think it 
is long overdue for the academic liberal arts at the intro levels to reframe 
themselves in the context of Network Studies -- network biology, systems 
chemistry, network neuroscience, art, philosophy, psychology, physics, 
economics, computer science, every field.  Far from undermining or eroding 
individual experience, identity, and contribution, these interconnective 
phenomena exponentially increase individuality in a fine fabric of mutually 
reinforcing guarantees.

One example of the Yale dilemma is the Mona Lisa.  Just look at the inane way 
it is currently used to funnel massive tourist traffic.  Does this help in any 
way conceivable to distribute the painting's aesthetic or informational 
content?  To the contrary.  It makes much more sense on every level, in terms 
of every discipline implied by the painting or related to it, what Leonardo 
meant by it and how it can still matter, and in terms of its immediate visual 
impact, if you view it in context with dancing Shiva and various henges, the I 
Ching, Adinkra symbols, etc.

The original meaning of the Mona Lisa was to bring in diversity, immediate 
experience, and the great fabric of art, science, and nature, because 
prescriptive orthodoxy is stagnant and medically unsound.  Why not let the 
painting continue its work?  The value of things is never meant to be exclusive 
-- that is overspecialization in evolutionary terms -- synergy and symbiosis 
are always vastly more resilient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva#/media/File:Shiva_as_the_Lord_of_Dance_LACMA_edit.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#/media/File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonardo_da_Vinci,_from_C2RMF_retouched.jpg
https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/stonehenge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_wheel#/media/File:MedicineWheel.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_sun_stone#/media/File:Piedra_del_Sol_en_MNA.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adinkra_symbols#/media/File:Adinkra_Rattray.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching#/media/File:Diagram_of_I_Ching_hexagrams_owned_by_Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz,_1701.jpg

I wonder if the Sadie Plant link on technology (art and science) as weaving 
might corroborate that those are mapped to ML's garment via the bridge, rivers, 
cognitive-historical cycles, etc.?  According to some traditions clothing was 
literally the first technology.  🙂



From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 2:18 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Links

"Did Duchamp really steal Elsa’s urinal?" -

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/comment/letter-to-the-editor-or-did-duchamp-really-steal-elsa-s-urinal


"The missing third client: how artists are exploring radical economies" -

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/missing-third-client-how-artists-are-exploring-radical-economies/


"In “Recoding CripTech,” Artists Highlight the Vital Role of Hacking in
Disability Culture" -

https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/aia-reviews/recoding-criptech-hacking-disability-sara-hendren-1202678282/


"A Lost Cyber Utopia: What Happened to the Soviet Internet?" -

https://strelkamag.com/en/article/what-happened-to-the-soviet-internet


"Deaf VRChat players are inventing their own sign language" -

https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/617632-deaf-vrchat-players-asl-sign-language-index-vr


"How Explaining Copyright Broke the YouTube Copyright System" -

https://www.law.nyu.edu/centers/engelberg/news/2020-03-04-youtube-takedown


"Can someone copyright every possible melody?" -

https://www.technollama.co.uk/can-someone-copyright-every-possible-melody


Solving the Yeezy problem with tokens -

https://www.ourzora.com/introducing-zora


More complex "crypto art" -

https://async.art/#how-does-it-work


Tokenized poetry -

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/f60o1z/nonfungible_poems_erc721_poetry_tokens_created_on/


"Why street art in Miami is being tokenized on Bitcoin" -

https://decrypt.co/19453/why-street-art-in-miami-is-being-tokenized-on-bitcoin


"Is art history becoming too woke?" -

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/art-history-has-never-been-morally-appropriate-nor-should-it-be


"The Age of Instagram Face" -

https://www.newyorker.com/cultur

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-01-07 10:58 a.m., Edward Picot via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> That Open BCI site is really interesting. We (Dr David Hindmarsh and
> myself) have recently started a series of podcasts about medical
> research and related matters, called Dr Hairy's Podcasts, and this is
> definitely going to get a mention.

Oh cool! -

https://drhairysresearchpodcasts.podbean.com/

I'm currently updating my old "lo-rez brain uploading" project (cheaper
and quicker than Alcor!) -

https://robmyers.org/uploads/

to use a Kinect 2 and I'm still stuck on my old Neurosky Mindwave
headset for the EEG because everything newer is so proprietary. If I had
the cash I would definitely replace it with Open BCI gear.

- Rob.


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-01-06 5:19 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
> 
> How ooold is that?!

Forty two plus five.

> (Can't catch me heh!)

That is a matter of productivity rather than time. :-)

- Rob.


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Edward Picot via NetBehaviour]

Rob,

That Open BCI site is really interesting. We (Dr David Hindmarsh and 
myself) have recently started a series of podcasts about medical 
research and related matters, called Dr Hairy's Podcasts, and this is 
definitely going to get a mention.


Edward

On 06/01/2020 22:33, Rob Myers wrote:

"An Art World Glossary for a Turbulent Decade" -

https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/features/art-world-key-terms-2010s-1202673541/


".ART Digital Twin" -

https://art.art/digital-twin/


"2019 In Review (1 Year of CryptoKaiju)" -

https://medium.com/@CryptoKaijuIO/2019-in-review-1-year-of-cryptokaiju-bf4388369317


"Trusted Third Parties are Security Holes" -

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/trusted-third-parties/


New cryptocurrency site with some well-respected contributors -

https://nakamoto.com/


Against the OODA Loop -

https://aelkus.github.io/theory/2019/09/06/boydw


"Incentivizing Trustlessness" -

https://openprivacy.ca/blog/2019/12/03/Incentivizing-Trustlessness-ZcashFoundation-Donation/


Open Source biosensing hardware (EEGs etc.) -

https://openbci.com/


Towards clickworkerizing software development -

https://cs.gmu.edu/~tlatoza/papers/tse18-microtaskprog.pdf


"A Software Engineer’s Advice for Saving Social Media? Keep It Small" -

https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/a-software-engineers-advice-for-saving-social-media-keep-it-small/


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim]

How ooold is that?!
(Can't catch me heh!)


On Tue, 7 Jan 2020, Rob Myers wrote:


On 2020-01-06 3:02 p.m., Mez Breeze wrote:

Happy Birthday Rob! :)

Thank you! Still a few hours to go here but then I will be sooo ld.

:-D

- Rob.




web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/ws.txt
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2020-01-06 3:02 p.m., Mez Breeze wrote:
> Happy Birthday Rob! :)
Thank you! Still a few hours to go here but then I will be sooo ld.

:-D

- Rob.



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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Mez Breeze via NetBehaviour]

Happy Birthday Rob! :)

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 9:34 AM Rob Myers  wrote:

> "An Art World Glossary for a Turbulent Decade" -
>
>
> https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/features/art-world-key-terms-2010s-1202673541/
>
>
> ".ART Digital Twin" -
>
> https://art.art/digital-twin/
>
>
> "2019 In Review (1 Year of CryptoKaiju)" -
>
>
> https://medium.com/@CryptoKaijuIO/2019-in-review-1-year-of-cryptokaiju-bf4388369317
>
>
> "Trusted Third Parties are Security Holes" -
>
> https://nakamotoinstitute.org/trusted-third-parties/
>
>
> New cryptocurrency site with some well-respected contributors -
>
> https://nakamoto.com/
>
>
> Against the OODA Loop -
>
> https://aelkus.github.io/theory/2019/09/06/boydw
>
>
> "Incentivizing Trustlessness" -
>
>
> https://openprivacy.ca/blog/2019/12/03/Incentivizing-Trustlessness-ZcashFoundation-Donation/
>
>
> Open Source biosensing hardware (EEGs etc.) -
>
> https://openbci.com/
>
>
> Towards clickworkerizing software development -
>
> https://cs.gmu.edu/~tlatoza/papers/tse18-microtaskprog.pdf
>
>
> "A Software Engineer’s Advice for Saving Social Media? Keep It Small" -
>
>
> https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/a-software-engineers-advice-for-saving-social-media-keep-it-small/
>
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>


-- 
| mezbreezedesign.com
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Hi all,

I've become interested recently in learning about Integral Theory as it relates 
to music and network theory.

After a quick read of the Integral Theory entry in Wikipedia, I would guess 
that some find it good and others not so good.  Sounds like a reasonable place 
to be these days!  Unorthodox approaches to academic subjects would seem 
overall to offer some advantages where academia works poorly, and some 
disadvantages where academia works well.  There seem to be a wide variety of 
ideas about integral theory.

In one school of integral theory AQAL is an acronym for "all quadrants, all 
levels," which means taking a holistic view of lots of states and stages of the 
basic model, the main thesis of which is that phenomena are generally both 
whole in themselves and parts of a larger system (hence integral).  This seems 
like it could relate on a practical level to some aspects of network theory, 
while perhaps risking a tendency toward murky or haphazard conclusions.

In any case, I noticed the following quote that might relate somewhat to 
artifice and artificing intelligence:  "The AQAL system has been critiqued for 
not taking into account the lack of change in the biological structure of the 
brain at the human level (complex neocortex), this role being taken instead by 
human-made artifacts.[63]"

This criticism might be replied to by recent evidence that the brain does 
change quite a bit depending on life-behavior (or what might be called "net" 
behavior), which brain imaging is starting to be able to prove, not necessarily 
in raw brain anatomy but definitely in configuration, emphasis, robustness, and 
connection states, or what you might call the brain's internal network 
behavior.  As to the "role" being taken by human-made artifacts, I guess I'd 
say that there is always some balance between the player and the instrument.  
Is the best instrument an instrument that plays itself, and always perfectly?  
Not necessarily.  Is the best player that which uses no instrument?  Well, even 
the vocal cords and eardrums of the audience are instruments.  Is it best to 
have only one player, one audience, or one instrument?  Likely not.  It seems 
that ideas of "best," "only," and "perfect" aren't very helpful, so how then 
might we calibrate our choices about good and less good, more or less 
worthwhile?  Maybe an idea of applying holistic "system well-being" as a 
baseline concept, along with "individual well-being" and freedom of choice, 
acknowledging the mutual interdependencies of the two, could help, but maybe 
not.

I certainly hope I haven't offended anyone by mentioning Integral Theory in 
this context while having so little direct knowledge of it.  Any errors I've 
made are entirely my own fault, and whatever useful connections might result I 
owe mainly to wikipedia.  As to music, I enjoy playing from time to time but do 
so at a rudimentary level of skill and application.  Even so, I do feel that I 
have experienced a different and in some ways greater level of enjoyment and 
appreciation of music when playing it, especially with other players but also 
in solitude.  My most favorite listening experiences have been a mix of forms 
and genres, some being highly complex and precise forms like Bach (more 
enduring) and others very simple easy to play forms like Bob Seger and the 
Silver Bullet Band (more fleeting).  🙂

All best and happy listening,

Max

PS -- last week I learned of a study at Cambridge U. that showed mice could 
retain highly difficult, complex motor skills only if there was a significant 
yet manageable element of stress and effort associated with the learning 
process.  The presence of cortisol, a stress hormone, allowed "spikes" to form 
on neuronal structures which then developed into the durable connective 
structure supporting the skill.  If the mice were provided with a cortisol 
blocker, the spikes would form during learning but would disappear afterward.  
Also very interestingly, the presence of cortisol needed to be cyclical, not 
chronic, ebbing and flowing with the effort of learning.  If the cortisol 
levels were kept at a constant elevated level, inducing chronic stress, the 
spikes would not appear at all.  I might have the no-cortisol/chronic-cortisol 
effects mixed up; I learned this from a conversation and not from an article I 
can quickly check back on.  This is the type of article though, which might 
provide clues: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5762136/





From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Alan Sondheim 
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 9:16 AM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Links


agree completely with you here; the issue is dismissals on all sides,
which does affect the ability of musicians to earn a decent w

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim]

agree completely with you here; the issue is dismissals on all sides, 
which does affect the ability of musicians to earn a decent wage, for 
example - that's what our four-day-improvisation at Eyebeam in 2012 (I 
think) was about in part -


but then one could say, it's the audience that decides where the money 
goes of course, so if for example robotic music/voice is preferred, then 
why not?


but the one might analyze the culture and what occurs within the culture 
when for example K-Pop dominates, and what happens to those singers and 
musicians themselves? (three have committed suicide recently, one popular 
group is on hiatus etc.).


ah, there's darkness and a little light everywhere -

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Michael Szpakowski wrote:


Hi all  I think it?s much more and that is what surfaces time and
again in the discussion : music is a human social practice ( like language ,
like all art) - it?s something human beings *do* ( and talk about, then do
some more) .And this doing involves, whatever the technology, the fact of
our embodiment. This doing is tied up with but not exactly reducible to some
kind of communicative impulse - one that refers to ideas, but more
importantly to affect... It also refers to itself - to previous practices
and how they were carried out, to assessments of them &c That richness is
why I cavill at wholesale dismissals ( or indeed endorsements) ?Truth is
always concrete? as good old Vladimir Ilyich said...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 2:11 am, Alan Sondheim 
wrote:


  Beautiful -
  Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with
  steering
  mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of
  technological
  epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything;
  it's when
  one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's
  all only
  music, sound, yes?

  On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:

  > Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as
  such are
  > inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and
  inevitable outcomes.
  > So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made
  via machines.
  > I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to -
  people can do
  > cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old
  ica bookshop.
  > But there is so much good music and art.
  > I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical
  or moral
  > questions, relevances then good on you.
  > I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad
  pop Muzak
  > myself.
  > Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
  > The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
  > What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing
  people?- of
  > course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
  > Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
  > Techno and beats. Beats forever.
  > Forever beatific eh Alan.
  > Alan on the path looked up at me
  > Me on the fence
  > Singing him a song
  > Alan agreed with me
  > About animal exploitation
  > In the Prometheus show
  > In the toilet on the park
  > In London
  > We were together
  > With the bacteria teeth
  > And the little statuettes
  > Of bodies clinging
  > I singed at Alan
  > Then we talked a bit
  > He went to America again
  > I never saw him since
  > But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
  > And we discussed improv
  > He done it twenty years longer than me
  > Cos he is about 18 years my senior
  > And writes a lot
  > Creative and disjointed
  > Knows my landlord Aharon
  > Who skates and records the rumble
  >
  >
  >
  > Sent from my spyphone
  >
  > On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski
   wrote:
  >
  > Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
  > else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a
  decently
  > ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem
  to
  > critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
  > distortion itself, carts before horses...
  >
  >
  > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
  >
  > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
  >  wrote:
  >
  > Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
  > specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
  > still my point stands... we lose something if we
  > abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
  > fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
  > musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
  > experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
  > me the order of the day :)
  >
  >
  > Sent f

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Michael Szpakowski]

Hi all  I think it’s much more and that is what surfaces time and 
again in the discussion : music is a human social practice ( like language , 
like all art) - it’s something human beings *do* ( and talk about, then do some 
more) .And this doing involves, whatever the technology, the fact of our 
embodiment. This doing is tied up with but not exactly reducible to some kind 
of communicative impulse - one that refers to  ideas, but more importantly to 
affect... It also refers to itself - to previous practices and how they were 
carried out, to assessments of them &c That richness is why I cavill at 
wholesale dismissals ( or indeed endorsements) ‘Truth is always concrete’ as 
good old Vladimir Ilyich said...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 2:11 am, Alan Sondheim  
wrote:


Beautiful -
Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering 
mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological 
epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when 
one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only 
music, sound, yes?

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:

> Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
> inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
> So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
> I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
> cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
> But there is so much good music and art.
> I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
> questions, relevances then good on you.
> I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
> myself.
> Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
> The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
> What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
> course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
> Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
> Techno and beats. Beats forever.
> Forever beatific eh Alan.
> Alan on the path looked up at me
> Me on the fence
> Singing him a song
> Alan agreed with me
> About animal exploitation
> In the Prometheus show
> In the toilet on the park
> In London
> We were together
> With the bacteria teeth
> And the little statuettes
> Of bodies clinging
> I singed at Alan
> Then we talked a bit
> He went to America again
> I never saw him since
> But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
> And we discussed improv
> He done it twenty years longer than me
> Cos he is about 18 years my senior
> And writes a lot
> Creative and disjointed
> Knows my landlord Aharon
> Who skates and records the rumble
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my spyphone
> 
> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski  
> wrote:
>
>      Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
>      else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
>      ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
>      critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
>      distortion itself, carts before horses...
> 
>
>      Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>      On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
>       wrote:
>
>            Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
>            specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
>            still my point stands... we lose something if we
>            abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
>            fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
>            musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
>            experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
>            me the order of the day :)
> 
>
>            Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>            On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
>             wrote:
>
>                  Grimes -
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
> 
> I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
> 
> - Rob.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
>  wrote:
>      Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
>      there is a big difference between a healthy
>      scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
>      tech can on occasion be ill used and the
>      dismissal of whole swathes of work...
> 
>
>      Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>      On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
>      Mclennan via NetBehaviour
>       wrote:
>
>            Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
>            Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
>            soulless product without anything
>            of cultural value to me, musical
>            or otherwise. This discussion
>            between these three entities makes
>            me yawn. It?s all about money -
>            absolutely nothing else - it?s the
>            equivalent of Smash powdered
>  

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour]

It's about any number of things, processes, economies, aesthetics, Blind
Willie McTell singing outside of driveins, Delta blues were a living. So
that always figures in. Just that increasingly, the dirt, yes, is being
cleansed, Kristeva's clean and proper body (Powers of Horror) comes to
mind. We need everything, bundles of aesthetics in a sense, not in the
sense of replacement or annihilation/proclamation, but in getting along,
communities, jostling, not running over.

I'm not sure what "sound as surface is" - sound seems to be something of
tensor calculus, standing waves, solitons, resonances, splatters, but I
haven't read Deleuze on sound, more books on acoustics and amazing critical
works like Valerie Wilmer's As Serious as Your Life, which changed mine...

Best, Alan, thank you -

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 9:55 PM Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Yes it is sound and music of course. - my friend writes her PhD on sound
> as surface using Deleuze, perhaps she can throw some light one day when she
> finishes it..
> Lots of surface detail on that Grimes stuff - maybe the same as the overly
> detailed 8k films now, the cgi stuff is more than we can see with our eyes.
> Towards perfection we miss the point. Obsessed with our overly
> technoistized lives to keep the wheels of industry and progress turning.
> They keep saying it’s inevitable - is it?
> But the nice balance of the twanging acoustic instrument and human touch
> of the string / against the shiny one note perfect synth and drums all ai
> to swing -  machine of perfection - we are dirt don’t forget. Machine
> is maths but false ersatz maths - not real maths of the universe of
> nothingness. Don’t forget it’s a magical tramsformation through our
> consciousness - then our tools of logic to make the world easier to live.
> When did we pass it though - now it’s about money init? We don’t need the
> tools no more.
> ???
>
>
> Sent from my spyphone
>
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 02:11, Alan Sondheim  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Beautiful -
> > Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering
> mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological
> epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when
> one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only
> music, sound, yes?
> >
> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:
> >>
> >> Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
> >> inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable
> outcomes.
> >> So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via
> machines.
> >> I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people
> can do
> >> cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica
> bookshop.
> >> But there is so much good music and art.
> >> I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
> >> questions, relevances then good on you.
> >> I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
> >> myself.
> >> Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
> >> The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
> >> What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?-
> of
> >> course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
> >> Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
> >> Techno and beats. Beats forever.
> >> Forever beatific eh Alan.
> >> Alan on the path looked up at me
> >> Me on the fence
> >> Singing him a song
> >> Alan agreed with me
> >> About animal exploitation
> >> In the Prometheus show
> >> In the toilet on the park
> >> In London
> >> We were together
> >> With the bacteria teeth
> >> And the little statuettes
> >> Of bodies clinging
> >> I singed at Alan
> >> Then we talked a bit
> >> He went to America again
> >> I never saw him since
> >> But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
> >> And we discussed improv
> >> He done it twenty years longer than me
> >> Cos he is about 18 years my senior
> >> And writes a lot
> >> Creative and disjointed
> >> Knows my landlord Aharon
> >> Who skates and records the rumble
> >> Sent from my spyphone
> >> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
> >>  else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
> >>  ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
> >>  critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
> >>  distortion itself, carts before horses...
> >>
> >>  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>
> >>  On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
> >>   wrote:
> >>
> >>Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
> >>specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
> >>still my point stands... we lose something if we
> >>abandon wholesale physically actuated s

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour]

Yes it is sound and music of course. - my friend writes her PhD on sound as 
surface using Deleuze, perhaps she can throw some light one day when she 
finishes it..
Lots of surface detail on that Grimes stuff - maybe the same as the overly 
detailed 8k films now, the cgi stuff is more than we can see with our eyes.
Towards perfection we miss the point. Obsessed with our overly technoistized 
lives to keep the wheels of industry and progress turning. They keep saying 
it’s inevitable - is it? 
But the nice balance of the twanging acoustic instrument and human touch of the 
string / against the shiny one note perfect synth and drums all ai to swing - 
 machine of perfection - we are dirt don’t forget. Machine is maths but 
false ersatz maths - not real maths of the universe of nothingness. Don’t 
forget it’s a magical tramsformation through our consciousness - then our tools 
of logic to make the world easier to live. 
When did we pass it though - now it’s about money init? We don’t need the tools 
no more.
???


Sent from my spyphone 

> On 5 Dec 2019, at 02:11, Alan Sondheim  wrote:
> 
> 
> Beautiful -
> Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering mechanisms 
> and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological epiphanies. There's 
> more than that, there's room for everything; it's when one or another form 
> dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only music, sound, yes?
> 
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:
>> 
>> Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
>> inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
>> So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
>> I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
>> cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
>> But there is so much good music and art.
>> I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
>> questions, relevances then good on you.
>> I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
>> myself.
>> Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
>> The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
>> What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
>> course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
>> Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
>> Techno and beats. Beats forever.
>> Forever beatific eh Alan.
>> Alan on the path looked up at me
>> Me on the fence
>> Singing him a song
>> Alan agreed with me
>> About animal exploitation
>> In the Prometheus show
>> In the toilet on the park
>> In London
>> We were together
>> With the bacteria teeth
>> And the little statuettes
>> Of bodies clinging
>> I singed at Alan
>> Then we talked a bit
>> He went to America again
>> I never saw him since
>> But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
>> And we discussed improv
>> He done it twenty years longer than me
>> Cos he is about 18 years my senior
>> And writes a lot
>> Creative and disjointed
>> Knows my landlord Aharon
>> Who skates and records the rumble
>> Sent from my spyphone
>> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
>>  else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
>>  ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
>>  critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
>>  distortion itself, carts before horses...
>> 
>>  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>>  On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
>>   wrote:
>> 
>>Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
>>specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
>>still my point stands... we lose something if we
>>abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
>>fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
>>musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
>>experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
>>me the order of the day :)
>> 
>>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>>On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  Grimes -
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
>> I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
>> - Rob.
>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
>>  wrote:
>>  Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
>>  there is a big difference between a healthy
>>  scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
>>  tech can on occasion be ill used and the
>>  dismissal of whole swathes of work...
>> 
>>  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>>  On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
>>  Mclennan via NetBehaviour
>>   wrote:
>> 
>>Have to weigh in in this! 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim]

Beautiful -
Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering 
mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological 
epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when 
one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only 
music, sound, yes?


On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:


Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
But there is so much good music and art.
I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
questions, relevances then good on you.
I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
myself.
Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
Techno and beats. Beats forever.
Forever beatific eh Alan.
Alan on the path looked up at me
Me on the fence
Singing him a song
Alan agreed with me
About animal exploitation
In the Prometheus show
In the toilet on the park
In London
We were together
With the bacteria teeth
And the little statuettes
Of bodies clinging
I singed at Alan
Then we talked a bit
He went to America again
I never saw him since
But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
And we discussed improv
He done it twenty years longer than me
Cos he is about 18 years my senior
And writes a lot
Creative and disjointed
Knows my landlord Aharon
Who skates and records the rumble



Sent from my spyphone

On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski  wrote:

  Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
  else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
  ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
  critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
  distortion itself, carts before horses...


  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

  On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
   wrote:

Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
still my point stands... we lose something if we
abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
me the order of the day :)


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
 wrote:

  Grimes -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene

I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.

- Rob.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
 wrote:
  Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
  there is a big difference between a healthy
  scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
  tech can on occasion be ill used and the
  dismissal of whole swathes of work...


  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

  On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
  Mclennan via NetBehaviour
   wrote:

Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
soulless product without anything
of cultural value to me, musical
or otherwise. This discussion
between these three entities makes
me yawn. It?s all about money -
absolutely nothing else - it?s the
equivalent of Smash powdered
potatoes - worse than that.
These people are completely without musical
talent - the so-name AI is less than the dirt
under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
Technology is only about generating revenue.
It does not help musicians - rap is a
festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie.
An undeniable itch - when scratched and
cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth
for a tiny few participants.
Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I
dig you cats for keeping the stuff rumbling
along the conveyor / keep it up and ? where?s my
Jazzmaster and homemade inks

Sent from my spyphone

On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via
NetBehaviour
 wrote:

  It's definitely a discussion we
  need to have. It reminds me of a
  dinner I had years ago w/ Cage who
  confirmed he criticized jazz
  because the player worked with
  fixed rhythms. Something gets lost
  in these discussions; Adorno fails
  miserably.
Ah well... It relates to my

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour]

Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are 
inevitable. 
Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
So yes, there’s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines. 
I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do 
cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop. But 
there is so much good music and art.
I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral 
questions, relevances then good on you.
I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak myself.
Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
What’s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of 
course it reflects back into people’s values etc.
Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
Techno and beats. Beats forever.
Forever beatific eh Alan.
Alan on the path looked up at me
Me on the fence 
Singing him a song
Alan agreed with me
About animal exploitation
In the Prometheus show
In the toilet on the park
In London
We were together
With the bacteria teeth
And the little statuettes
Of bodies clinging
I singed at Alan
Then we talked a bit
He went to America again
I never saw him since
But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
And we discussed improv
He done it twenty years longer than me
Cos he is about 18 years my senior
And writes a lot
Creative and disjointed
Knows my landlord Aharon
Who skates and records the rumble



Sent from my spyphone 

> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski  
> wrote:
> 
> Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots else should be 
> ‘what wealth of human practices would a decently ordered and resourced world 
> for everyone allow?’ Often we seem to critique the products of a distorted 
> world rather than the distortion itself, carts before horses...
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the specifics and the later 
> reference to rap.. but... still my point stands... we lose something if we 
> abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the fragility of the live but 
> wholesale dismissal of new musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and 
> experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to me the order of the day :)
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers  wrote:
> 
> Grimes -
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
> 
> I’m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
> 
> - Rob.
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski 
>>  wrote:
>> Do you mean Grime Simon? I’m unclear. I think there is a big difference 
>> between a healthy scepticism and nuanced discussion about how tech can on 
>> occasion be ill used and the dismissal of whole swathes of work...
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless 
>> product without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This 
>> discussion between these three entities makes me yawn. 
>> It’s all about money - absolutely nothing else - it’s the equivalent of 
>> Smash powdered potatoes - worse than that. 
>> These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is less 
>> than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell. 
>> Technology is only about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - 
>> rap is a festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - 
>> when scratched and cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny 
>> few participants. 
>> Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the 
>> stuff rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster 
>> and homemade inks
>> 
>> Sent from my spyphone 
>> 
>>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I 
>>> had years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player 
>>> worked with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno 
>>> fails miserably.
>>> Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I 
>>> always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel 
>>> it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:
>>> On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>>> >> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
>>> > of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
>>> > reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
>>> > read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundam

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Michael Szpakowski]

Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots else should be 
‘what wealth of human practices would a decently ordered and resourced world 
for everyone allow?’ Often we seem to critique the products of a distorted 
world rather than the distortion itself, carts before horses...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski 
 wrote:

Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the specifics and the later reference 
to rap.. but... still my point stands... we lose something if we abandon 
wholesale physically actuated sound and the fragility of the live but wholesale 
dismissal of new musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and 
experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to me the order of the day :)


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers  wrote:

Grimes -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene

I’m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
- Rob.
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski  
wrote:
 Do you mean Grime Simon? I’m unclear. I think there is a big difference 
between a healthy scepticism and nuanced discussion about how tech can on 
occasion be ill used and the dismissal of whole swathes of work...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:

Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless product 
without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This discussion 
between these three entities makes me yawn. It’s all about money - absolutely 
nothing else - it’s the equivalent of Smash powdered potatoes - worse than 
that. These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is 
less than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell. Technology is only 
about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - rap is a festering sore 
on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - when scratched and 
cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny few participants. Sorry 
I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the stuff 
rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster and 
homemade inks

Sent from my spyphone 
On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:


It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I had 
years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player worked 
with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno fails 
miserably.Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. 
And I always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel 
it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc. 

I think HH would agree with you.

> and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.

There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...

- Rob.



-- 
=directory 
http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com
=

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h

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Michael Szpakowski]

Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the specifics and the later reference 
to rap.. but... still my point stands... we lose something if we abandon 
wholesale physically actuated sound and the fragility of the live but wholesale 
dismissal of new musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and 
experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to me the order of the day :)


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers  wrote:

Grimes -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene

I’m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
- Rob.
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski  
wrote:
 Do you mean Grime Simon? I’m unclear. I think there is a big difference 
between a healthy scepticism and nuanced discussion about how tech can on 
occasion be ill used and the dismissal of whole swathes of work...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:

Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless product 
without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This discussion 
between these three entities makes me yawn. It’s all about money - absolutely 
nothing else - it’s the equivalent of Smash powdered potatoes - worse than 
that. These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is 
less than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell. Technology is only 
about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - rap is a festering sore 
on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - when scratched and 
cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny few participants. Sorry 
I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the stuff 
rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster and 
homemade inks

Sent from my spyphone 
On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:


It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I had 
years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player worked 
with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno fails 
miserably.Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. 
And I always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel 
it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc. 

I think HH would agree with you.

> and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.

There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...

- Rob.



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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

Grimes -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene

I’m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.

- Rob.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski  
wrote:

> Do you mean Grime Simon? I’m unclear. I think there is a big difference 
> between a healthy scepticism and nuanced discussion about how tech can on 
> occasion be ill used and the dismissal of whole swathes of work...
>
> [Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone](https://yho.com/footer0)
>
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour 
>  wrote:
>
>> Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless 
>> product without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This 
>> discussion between these three entities makes me yawn.
>> It’s all about money - absolutely nothing else - it’s the equivalent of 
>> Smash powdered potatoes - worse than that.
>> These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is less 
>> than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
>> Technology is only about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - 
>> rap is a festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - 
>> when scratched and cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny 
>> few participants.
>> Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the 
>> stuff rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster 
>> and homemade inks
>>
>> Sent from my spyphone
>>
>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I 
>>> had years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player 
>>> worked with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno 
>>> fails miserably.
>>> Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I 
>>> always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel 
>>> it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:
>>>
 On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc.

 I think HH would agree with you.

> and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
 There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
 billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
 about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
 reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.

 There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
 intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
 phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
 for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
 surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
 that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...

 - Rob.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> =directory 
>>> http://www.alansondheim.org tel [718-813-3285](tel:718-813-3285)
>>> email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com
>>>
>>> =
>>
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>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>>>

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Michael Szpakowski]

Do you mean Grime Simon? I’m unclear. I think there is a big difference between 
a healthy scepticism and nuanced discussion about how tech can on occasion be 
ill used and the dismissal of whole swathes of work...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:

Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless product 
without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This discussion 
between these three entities makes me yawn. It’s all about money - absolutely 
nothing else - it’s the equivalent of Smash powdered potatoes - worse than 
that. These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is 
less than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell. Technology is only 
about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - rap is a festering sore 
on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - when scratched and 
cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny few participants. Sorry 
I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the stuff 
rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster and 
homemade inks

Sent from my spyphone 
On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:


It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I had 
years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player worked 
with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno fails 
miserably.Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. 
And I always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel 
it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc. 

I think HH would agree with you.

> and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.

There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...

- Rob.



-- 
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email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com
=

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour]

Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless product 
without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This discussion 
between these three entities makes me yawn. 
It’s all about money - absolutely nothing else - it’s the equivalent of Smash 
powdered potatoes - worse than that. 
These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is less 
than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell. 
Technology is only about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - rap 
is a festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - when 
scratched and cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny few 
participants. 
Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the 
stuff rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster and 
homemade inks

Sent from my spyphone 

> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I had 
> years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player worked 
> with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno fails 
> miserably.
> Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I 
> always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel it) 
> when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:
>> On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> >> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
>> > of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
>> > reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
>> > read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
>> > between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
>> > breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
>> > example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
>> > players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
>> > blues, gospel musics, etc. 
>> 
>> I think HH would agree with you.
>> 
>> > and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
>> There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
>> billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
>> about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
>> reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.
>> 
>> There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
>> intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
>> phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
>> for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
>> surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
>> that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...
>> 
>> - Rob.
> 
> 
> -- 
> =
> directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
> email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com
> =
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Good topics about jazz and creative fabric, real individuals.  Makes me want to 
set up my drum set and start a new band, but my tinnitus is killing me!  :)




From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour 
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:11 PM
To: Rob Myers 
Cc: Alan Sondheim ; NetBehaviour for networked distributed 
creativity 
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I had 
years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player worked 
with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno fails 
miserably.
Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I 
always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel it) 
when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers 
mailto:r...@robmyers.org>> wrote:
On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc.

I think HH would agree with you.

> and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.

There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...

- Rob.


--
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directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour]

It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I
had years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player
worked with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno
fails miserably.
Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I
always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel
it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

> On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
> >> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> > of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> > reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> > read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> > between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> > breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> > example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> > players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> > blues, gospel musics, etc.
>
> I think HH would agree with you.
>
> > and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
> There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
> billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
> about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
> reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.
>
> There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
> intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
> phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
> for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
> surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
> that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...
>
> - Rob.
>


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position
> of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community,
> breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great
> players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc. 

I think HH would agree with you.

> and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.
There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a
billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing
about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own
reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities.

There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology,
intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest
phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain
for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely
surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way
that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808...

- Rob.


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour]

In relation to Holly Herndon, " “AI most likely won’t replace musicians
outright,” Herndon wrote. “Sentient AI is a fantasy that I think sometimes
distracts (often intentionally) from the political economic things that are
happening around the tech at the moment.” Herndon went on to discuss the
use of automated music systems to make stock music, how drum machines were
inspired by the work of great drummers, the role of automated tools in the
creation of music, the ethics of using an artificial “disembodied
representation of an artist,” and much more."

What disgusts me about this is that music is so much the presence of the
musician, performer; this is critical in, for example, Indian and Arabic
musics, Jazz, etc. This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position of
the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to
reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't read
everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference between a
drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community, breathes within
community, and contributes to community. Thinking for example of free jazz,
and the difficulties and explorations of the great players, the relation of
that music to the cry, the field holler, the blues, gospel musics, etc. -
and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege.

Apologies, Alan, I shouldn't send this out, but watching too many musicians
suffer, some of the greatest homeless, and this comes across bad surface.

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 5:59 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

> Zola Jesus, Grimes, and Holly Herndon discuss AI, music and fascism -
>
>
> https://pitchfork.com/news/holly-herndon-weighs-in-on-grimes-and-zola-jesus-debate-about-ai-and-the-future-of-music/
>
>
> "Artificial Arboretum – Preservation of “photogrammetrees” found in
> Google Earth" -
>
>
> https://www.creativeapplications.net/objects/artificial-arboretum-preservation-of-photogrammetrees-found-in-google-earth/
>
>
> "The Shift to Online Art Sales with Cryptocurrency Artist Laurianna" -
>
>
> https://anchor.fm/cryptoentrepreneurs/episodes/The-Shift-to-Online-Art-Sales-with-Cryptocurrency-Artist-Laurianna-e945ma
>
>
> "a soft opening of works commissioned by left.gallery" -
>
>
> https://www.fullnode.berlin/events/formenverwandler-left-gallery-at-full-node/
>
>
> "On machine learning, creativity, and the law" -
>
>
> https://whyisthisinteresting.substack.com/p/why-is-this-interesting-the-ai-copyright
>
>
> "Understanding Digital Art & Blockchain - the basics for digital artists" -
>
>
> https://codexprotocol.com/2019/11/27/understanding-digital-art-blockchain%E2%80%8A-%E2%80%8Athe-basics-for-digital-artists/
>
>
> Blender3D has a much easier UI now and this is a good tutorial -
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBqYTgaFDxU
>
>
> GNU Emacs for all -
>
>
> https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2019/emacsconf-2019-04-gnu-emacs-for-all--slides--psachin.pdf
>
>
> "Hard Problems in Cryptocurrency: Five Years Later" -
>
> https://vitalik.ca/general/2019/11/22/progress.html
>
>
> The Perfect Mario -
>
> https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/1198000240319590400
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

Just the first link is a rich analysis of the MIT problem as a problem of
funding cultures with huge impact worldwide.

Thanks Rob!



On Fri, 22 Nov 2019, 21:02 Rob Myers,  wrote:

> Against MIT's Media Center -
>
>
> https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/features/mit-media-lab-jeffrey-epstein-joi-ito-nicholas-negroponte-1202668520/
>
>
> "Ghost ships, crop circles, and soft gold: A GPS mystery in Shanghai" -
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614689/ghost-ships-crop-circles-and-soft-gold-a-gps-mystery-in-shanghai/
>
>
> "How to recognize AI snake oil" -
>
> https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/talks/MIT-STS-AI-snakeoil.pdf
>
>
> Hacker offers hacked cash for hacks -
>
>
> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5agy/phineas-fisher-offers-dollar10-bounty-for-hacks-against-banks-and-oil-companies
>
>
> "An Artist Has Won a Three-Year Legal Battle to Force a German Museum to
> Publicly Release Its 3D Scan of a Bust of Nefertiti" -
>
> https://news.artnet.com/art-world/3d-scans-museums-nefertiti-1706181
>
>
> "How Many Bitcoins Are Permanently Lost?" -
>
> https://coinmetrics.substack.com/p/coin-metrics-state-of-the-network-d2e
>
>
> "How Blade Runner combines a multi-cultural past with a retro-fitted
> present" -
>
> https://filmandfurniture.com/2014/09/blade-runner-design-whiskey-glasses/
>
>
> "A Brief History of Geotrauma" -
>
> https://readthis.wtf/writing/a-brief-history-of-geotrauma/
>
>
> "When Giant Mainframe Computers Were First Used to Create Art" -
>
>
> http://www.openculture.com/2017/05/philosopher-hiroshi-kawano-makes-digital-mondrians-in-1964-the-birth-of-digital-art.html
>
>
> "How can we develop transformative tools for thought?" -
>
> https://numinous.productions/ttft/
>
>
> "Qualia Research Institute’s inaugural newsletter." -
>
> https://opentheory.net/2019/10/state-of-the-qualia-fall-2019/
>
>
> "Pricing niche products: Why sell a mechanical keyboard kit for $1,668?" -
>
> https://kevinlynagh.com/notes/pricing-niche-products/
>
>
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Interesting assemblage Rob!

I've been thinking about "thought-time" this morning.  It has a lot of 
implications, if true.  Your link about the novel relates to Calvino's If on a 
Winter's Night a Traveler and the novel as a network.  He also says the person 
is a network.  So, the person is a novel, meaning, the novel cannot really be 
much of anything like a book on a shelf, can it?

Distortions of thought-time are also economic -- how to "spend" or direct one's 
thought-time.  Overvaluation, hypervaluation, is an issue of thought-time.  
Scorcese has been pointing out how cinema is dead, there is no thought-time 
duration, no story left in it, no breathing space, just an onslaught of 
"special effects" which are increasingly less special at an accelerating pace.

Thought-time is real, but it not so abstract and infinite as we have often 
thought in western history.  It is a lived experience so to speak, not what 
Benjamin called "homogeneous, empty time" or "calendrical time."

It's not unrelated to the mindfulness initiative in Parliament however, 
especially if we replace "thought" with "consciousness," which is a larger term 
and perhaps more accurate.

This does not intimate a gigantic crisis necessarily, and can even just be so 
simple as "spend your thought-time, ye economic agent, where most it befits you 
and yours in bounty."  Sometimes we think that "the economy should sell/give me 
the things that put my thought-time to best use for me, the community, and the 
planet," but there is a creative agency too in saying "I'm going to spend it on 
what seems best to me, I won't wait to be spoon-fed, and if that means making a 
new mousetrap then so be it."

Best regards,

Max






From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:02 AM
To: netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org 
Subject: [NetBehaviour] Links

"STURTEVANT: MEMES" -

https://www.contemporaryartdaily.com/2019/11/sturtevant-at-freedman-fitzpatrick/?


"Building a functioning arts DAO" -

https://medium.com/knownorigin/building-a-functioning-arts-dao-b8c120932aa9


"Regulating Big Tech makes them stronger, so they need competition
instead" -

https://www.economist.com/open-future/2019/06/06/regulating-big-tech-makes-them-stronger-so-they-need-competition-instead


"Flows of services and data now play a much bigger role in tying the
global economy together" -

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/innovation-and-growth/globalization-in-transition-the-future-of-trade-and-value-chains


"Piece by piece: the issues with fractional ownership of art" -

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/comment/piece-by-piece-is-fractional-ownership-working


"What’s Wrong With the New Figurative Painting?" -

https://www.thenation.com/article/whats-wrong-with-the-new-figurative-painting/


Richard Price is at it again -

https://www.artsy.net/news/artsy-editorial-subject-richard-prince-portrait-called-work-a-reckless-embarrassing-uninformed-critique


"$136 M. in Art on View at Prince Charles’s Home Are My Fakes, Forger
Claims" -

http://www.artnews.com/2019/11/04/prince-charles-art-forgery-scandal/


"How to Run a City Like Amazon, and Other Fables" -

https://meatspacepress.com/


"France set to roll out nationwide facial recognition ID program" -

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2019/10/06/france-set-to-roll-out-nationwide-facial-recognition-id-program.html


"Art world caught up in UK's 'big problem with dirty money'" -

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/art-caught-up-in-uk-s-big-problem-with-dirty-money


StackOverflow's 2019 Developer Survey Results -

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019


"MoMA’s Revisionism Is Piecemeal and Problem-Filled" -

http://www.artnews.com/2019/10/31/moma-rehang-art-historian-maura-reilly/


"Subcutanean: a novel where each copy is different" -

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/subcutanean-a-novel-where-each-copy-is-different#/


"Crypto Art Show in LA & Cent Cryptovoxels Art Tour" -

https://www.proofofartwork.com/blog-crypto-art-show-in-la-cryptovoxels-art-tour/


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[AGF poemproducer]

thank you!

> On 10 Nov 2019, at 09:02, Rob Myers  wrote:
> 
> "STURTEVANT: MEMES" -
> 
> https://www.contemporaryartdaily.com/2019/11/sturtevant-at-freedman-fitzpatrick/?
> 
> 
> "Building a functioning arts DAO" -
> 
> https://medium.com/knownorigin/building-a-functioning-arts-dao-b8c120932aa9
> 
> 
> "Regulating Big Tech makes them stronger, so they need competition
> instead" -
> 
> https://www.economist.com/open-future/2019/06/06/regulating-big-tech-makes-them-stronger-so-they-need-competition-instead
> 
> 
> "Flows of services and data now play a much bigger role in tying the
> global economy together" -
> 
> https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/innovation-and-growth/globalization-in-transition-the-future-of-trade-and-value-chains
> 
> 
> "Piece by piece: the issues with fractional ownership of art" -
> 
> https://www.theartnewspaper.com/comment/piece-by-piece-is-fractional-ownership-working
> 
> 
> "What’s Wrong With the New Figurative Painting?" -
> 
> https://www.thenation.com/article/whats-wrong-with-the-new-figurative-painting/
> 
> 
> Richard Price is at it again -
> 
> https://www.artsy.net/news/artsy-editorial-subject-richard-prince-portrait-called-work-a-reckless-embarrassing-uninformed-critique
> 
> 
> "$136 M. in Art on View at Prince Charles’s Home Are My Fakes, Forger
> Claims" -
> 
> http://www.artnews.com/2019/11/04/prince-charles-art-forgery-scandal/
> 
> 
> "How to Run a City Like Amazon, and Other Fables" -
> 
> https://meatspacepress.com/
> 
> 
> "France set to roll out nationwide facial recognition ID program" -
> 
> https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2019/10/06/france-set-to-roll-out-nationwide-facial-recognition-id-program.html
> 
> 
> "Art world caught up in UK's 'big problem with dirty money'" -
> 
> https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/art-caught-up-in-uk-s-big-problem-with-dirty-money
> 
> 
> StackOverflow's 2019 Developer Survey Results -
> 
> https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019
> 
> 
> "MoMA’s Revisionism Is Piecemeal and Problem-Filled" -
> 
> http://www.artnews.com/2019/10/31/moma-rehang-art-historian-maura-reilly/
> 
> 
> "Subcutanean: a novel where each copy is different" -
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/subcutanean-a-novel-where-each-copy-is-different#/
> 
> 
> "Crypto Art Show in LA & Cent Cryptovoxels Art Tour" -
> 
> https://www.proofofartwork.com/blog-crypto-art-show-in-la-cryptovoxels-art-tour/
> 
> 
>  r...@robmyers.org.asc.pgp>___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Hi Rob,

I found an old conversation about "networkism" from 2007, absolutely could be 
flat-out just plain managerialism -- granted.  Same would apply today.

In an ironic case of composting and random mutation the term does show up now 
in a strange variety of places by internet search, few or none related at all 
to our discussion I wager, and also likely none related to the Mbembe interview.

Funny idea about blockchain -- would that relate to who wrote what, i.e. how to 
distinguish machine writing from human writing?

All best and thanks for good conversation,

Max



From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Max Herman via NetBehaviour 
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 11:52 AM
To: netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org ; 
Rob Myers 
Cc: Max Herman 
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Links


Interesting and fun links Rob!  Your name sounds familiar but I'm old now and 
can't remember names for diddly.  🙂

I general don't click on links in emails, due to malware and all that.  Do 
other people click on them?  It reminds me of the old days.  So instead I 
internet search using phrases.  But that's a lot of articles to read!  Didn't 
read all.

Random comments:

  *   Unbuyable and unsellable value:  Adam Smith said that without moral 
judgment, capitalism cannot function.  (Subreference Norbert Wiener paraphrase: 
learning machines can do any repetitive task better than humans, except moral 
judgment.)
  *   Group novel-writing: Calvino said the novel is a network, and that each 
person is a network.  "Novel" derives from "new," meaning, a new genre -- 
longer-form non-factual text meant to articulate a specific take on "the all" 
or most of it.  (See Six Memos on the novel of everything, universal novel, map 
of everything, universal map, etc.  Novel as network, universe as network, 
Bohm's implicit order and dialogue or "information flow" as creative, Smolin's 
ensemble theory via Einstein.)
  *   Satirical news being thought real -- factuality vs. map-consonant data, 
does the fact or the fiction function in the network in which it appears?
  *   AI to write novels: intelligence is network (Olaf Sporns), consciousness 
is network, novel is consciousness, AI is not conscious, AI cannot write a 
novel ipso facto.
  *   On mindfulness: it can be viewed in many ways, but the neuroscience is 
pretty straightforward.  It has a role in brain networks.  For example, the 
practice of mindfulness has a time-delayed impact on the Default Mode Network, 
which is mainly a resting-state network, but DMN also has a role in 
active-state networks relating to self and social locating/mapping (Sporns 
2011).
  *   There is such a thing as fake mindfulness, McMindfulness as the article 
says.  Is all mindfulness fake or a cover-up, or as it is sometimes called, 
"sham mindfulness"?  This is a real debate but not so simple.  Mindfulness has 
a real role in brain function, and hence in artistic expression and perception 
as well as neuroplasticity.  Is it a panacea, no, but is it important?  Maybe.  
One could argue that network consciousness is not possible without mindfulness 
as a modulation factor.
  *   Mindfulness is a thing in the UK Parliament.  Is that therefore partisan? 
 Indigenous and ancient cultures often practice mindfulness in a vast diversity 
of ways; is that aspect of them invalid?
  *   Distributed model of intelligence, Bohm's "participatory thought," 
"thought as a system," etc.

Many apologies if I am seeing a counter-argument where there is not one or 
inventing disputes that are not helpful.  Free exchange of ideas and 
observations can be very productive, so if this is that thanks, and I admit I 
may be very wrong on all topics, but as a Bohmian detachment dialogue action, 
there might be some aspects other than error, I mean, what really is error 
anyway?  Non-factuality?  Maybe aesthetics can be real in a sense even if they 
are not factual, so for example Santa Claus is factual in a sense.




From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 11:07 AM
To: netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org 
Subject: [NetBehaviour] Links

"Would You Buy a Performance?" -

https://news.artnet.com/market/brussels-performance-affair-2019-1639030


"There Are No Magic Words That You Can Post to Change Instagram’s Terms
of Service" -

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/there-are-no-magic-words-you-can-post-change-instagrams-terms-service


"Too Many People Think Satirical News Is Real" -

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/16/readers-think-satire-is-real/


"Can You Write a Novel as a Group?" -

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/can-you-write-a-novel-as-a-group


"How I’m using AI to write my next novel" -

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Interesting and fun links Rob!  Your name sounds familiar but I'm old now and 
can't remember names for diddly.  🙂

I general don't click on links in emails, due to malware and all that.  Do 
other people click on them?  It reminds me of the old days.  So instead I 
internet search using phrases.  But that's a lot of articles to read!  Didn't 
read all.

Random comments:

  *   Unbuyable and unsellable value:  Adam Smith said that without moral 
judgment, capitalism cannot function.  (Subreference Norbert Wiener paraphrase: 
learning machines can do any repetitive task better than humans, except moral 
judgment.)
  *   Group novel-writing: Calvino said the novel is a network, and that each 
person is a network.  "Novel" derives from "new," meaning, a new genre -- 
longer-form non-factual text meant to articulate a specific take on "the all" 
or most of it.  (See Six Memos on the novel of everything, universal novel, map 
of everything, universal map, etc.  Novel as network, universe as network, 
Bohm's implicit order and dialogue or "information flow" as creative, Smolin's 
ensemble theory via Einstein.)
  *   Satirical news being thought real -- factuality vs. map-consonant data, 
does the fact or the fiction function in the network in which it appears?
  *   AI to write novels: intelligence is network (Olaf Sporns), consciousness 
is network, novel is consciousness, AI is not conscious, AI cannot write a 
novel ipso facto.
  *   On mindfulness: it can be viewed in many ways, but the neuroscience is 
pretty straightforward.  It has a role in brain networks.  For example, the 
practice of mindfulness has a time-delayed impact on the Default Mode Network, 
which is mainly a resting-state network, but DMN also has a role in 
active-state networks relating to self and social locating/mapping (Sporns 
2011).
  *   There is such a thing as fake mindfulness, McMindfulness as the article 
says.  Is all mindfulness fake or a cover-up, or as it is sometimes called, 
"sham mindfulness"?  This is a real debate but not so simple.  Mindfulness has 
a real role in brain function, and hence in artistic expression and perception 
as well as neuroplasticity.  Is it a panacea, no, but is it important?  Maybe.  
One could argue that network consciousness is not possible without mindfulness 
as a modulation factor.
  *   Mindfulness is a thing in the UK Parliament.  Is that therefore partisan? 
 Indigenous and ancient cultures often practice mindfulness in a vast diversity 
of ways; is that aspect of them invalid?
  *   Distributed model of intelligence, Bohm's "participatory thought," 
"thought as a system," etc.

Many apologies if I am seeing a counter-argument where there is not one or 
inventing disputes that are not helpful.  Free exchange of ideas and 
observations can be very productive, so if this is that thanks, and I admit I 
may be very wrong on all topics, but as a Bohmian detachment dialogue action, 
there might be some aspects other than error, I mean, what really is error 
anyway?  Non-factuality?  Maybe aesthetics can be real in a sense even if they 
are not factual, so for example Santa Claus is factual in a sense.




From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Rob Myers 
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 11:07 AM
To: netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org 
Subject: [NetBehaviour] Links

"Would You Buy a Performance?" -

https://news.artnet.com/market/brussels-performance-affair-2019-1639030


"There Are No Magic Words That You Can Post to Change Instagram’s Terms
of Service" -

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/there-are-no-magic-words-you-can-post-change-instagrams-terms-service


"Too Many People Think Satirical News Is Real" -

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/16/readers-think-satire-is-real/


"Can You Write a Novel as a Group?" -

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/can-you-write-a-novel-as-a-group


"How I’m using AI to write my next novel" -

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/8/30/20840194/ai-art-fiction-writing-language-gpt-2


writeup.ai -

https://writeup.ai/


GPT-2 less dangerous than thought? -

https://nostalgebraist.tumblr.com/post/187579086034/it-seems-pretty-clear-to-me-by-now-that-gpt-2-is


"Human-guided burrito bots raise questions about the future of
robo-delivery" -

https://thehustle.co/kiwibots-autonomous-food-delivery/


"Bitcoin Is Using Less Energy Despite Record Hash Rate, New Data Shows" -

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-using-less-energy-despite-record-hash-rate-new-data-shows


"Privacy Advocates Slam a UK Museum for Using Facial-Recognition
Surveillance at Its Terracotta Warriors Show" -

https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/facial-recognition-1627780


"These Nigerian Teens Are Making Sci-Fi Shorts with Slick Visual Effects" -

https://kottke.org/19/08/these-nigerian-teens-are-making-sci-fi-shorts-with-slick-visual-effects


"...And so began the eternal crisis of photogenicity." -

https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-edito

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Julian Brooks]

(extra) Nice selection this week, thanks Rob.

On 13/08/2019 20:22, Rob Myers wrote:
> "The art that is doing well in the market provides a place of escape
> from society. Right now, that’s an escape to rules and boundaries and to
> easily digestible culture." -
> 
> https://thebaffler.com/latest/market-values-delistraty
> 
> 
> "Why AI Can’t Yet Predict Mark Rothko Paintings’ Auction Prices" -
> 
> https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-ai-predict-mark-rothko-paintings-auction-prices
> 
> 
> "Serpentine CTO Ben Vickers mulls tech's relationship with art" -
> 
> https://www.cio.co.uk/it-applications/serpentine-cto-ben-vickers-mulls-techs-relationship-with-art-3699431/
> 
> 
> "With warshipping, hackers ship their exploits directly to their
> target's mail room" -
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/06/warshipping-hackers-ship-exploits-mail-room/
> 
> 
> "Hong Kong protesters use lasers to avoid facial recognition cameras and
> blind police" -
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-lasers-facial-recognition-ai-china-police-a9033046.html
> 
> 
> "The strategies of Hong Kong protesters, honed through weekly clashes
> with police, offer a masterclass to activists worldwide." -
> 
> https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2019/08/be-water-seven-tactics-are-winning-hong-kongs-democracy-revolution
> 
> 
> The challenges of digital media preservation -
> 
> https://eddycolloton.com/blog/2019/1/10/that-dam-project
> 
> 
> Serial Experiments Lain goes not-quite-open-source -
> 
> https://www.nbcuni.co.jp/rondorobe/anime/lain/ttl/
> 
> 
> The Age of Sin Calendar -
> 
> https://lilypatchwork.xyz/calendar/about.html
> 
> 
> "Neil Jordan and Angela Carter, in conversation" -
> 
> https://sounds.bl.uk/Arts-literature-and-performance/ICA-talks/024M-C0095X0067XX-0100V0
> 
> 
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[AGF poemproducer]

thanks rob

> On 13 Aug 2019, at 22:22, Rob Myers  wrote:
> 
> "The art that is doing well in the market provides a place of escape
> from society. Right now, that’s an escape to rules and boundaries and to
> easily digestible culture." -
> 
> https://thebaffler.com/latest/market-values-delistraty
> 
> 
> "Why AI Can’t Yet Predict Mark Rothko Paintings’ Auction Prices" -
> 
> https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-ai-predict-mark-rothko-paintings-auction-prices
> 
> 
> "Serpentine CTO Ben Vickers mulls tech's relationship with art" -
> 
> https://www.cio.co.uk/it-applications/serpentine-cto-ben-vickers-mulls-techs-relationship-with-art-3699431/
> 
> 
> "With warshipping, hackers ship their exploits directly to their
> target's mail room" -
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/06/warshipping-hackers-ship-exploits-mail-room/
> 
> 
> "Hong Kong protesters use lasers to avoid facial recognition cameras and
> blind police" -
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-lasers-facial-recognition-ai-china-police-a9033046.html
> 
> 
> "The strategies of Hong Kong protesters, honed through weekly clashes
> with police, offer a masterclass to activists worldwide." -
> 
> https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2019/08/be-water-seven-tactics-are-winning-hong-kongs-democracy-revolution
> 
> 
> The challenges of digital media preservation -
> 
> https://eddycolloton.com/blog/2019/1/10/that-dam-project
> 
> 
> Serial Experiments Lain goes not-quite-open-source -
> 
> https://www.nbcuni.co.jp/rondorobe/anime/lain/ttl/
> 
> 
> The Age of Sin Calendar -
> 
> https://lilypatchwork.xyz/calendar/about.html
> 
> 
> "Neil Jordan and Angela Carter, in conversation" -
> 
> https://sounds.bl.uk/Arts-literature-and-performance/ICA-talks/024M-C0095X0067XX-0100V0
> 
> 
>  r...@robmyers.org.asc.pgp>___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Julian Brooks]

Like many others, may I add a general thanks for these Rob, quite the 
resource:)

I read the 'the day the music burned' article yesterday, and am still 
reeling. It's not unlike the Louvre, d'Orsay & Pompidou imploding (& 
their complete archives) - gone, all gone - but hey, we've still got the 
postcards. What an incredible loss.

J

On 13/06/2019 02:06, Rob Myers wrote:
> "French Museum Discovers More Than Half Its Collection Is Forged" -
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2018/04/29/606919098/french-museum-discovers-more-than-half-its-collection-is-forged
> 
> 
> "How an Artist-Run Bank Reveals the Extent of the Art Market’s Debt
> Dependency" -
> 
> https://news.artnet.com/opinion/bank-job-art-debt-1568440
> 
> 
> "How Blockchain Changed The Art World In 2018" -
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zoharelhanani/2018/12/17/how-blockchain-changed-the-art-world-in-2018/#5f599f2a3074
> 
> 
> "Two Artists on the Future of Blockchain and Art" -
> 
> https://www.aam-us.org/2019/06/05/two-artists-on-the-future-of-blockchain-and-art/
> 
> 
> "Minecraft on the Blockchain: A Look Into the World of Cryptovoxels" -
> 
> https://medium.com/@Andrew.Steinwold/minecraft-on-the-blockchain-a-look-into-the-world-of-cryptovoxels-54d46c117ffd?postPublishedType=initial
> 
> 
> "How technology is changing the way art is bought & sold" -
> 
> https://medium.com/swlh/how-technology-is-changing-the-way-art-is-bought-sold-a97d0a911670
> 
> 
> "Could Blockchain Put Money Back in Artists’ Hands?" -
> 
> https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-blockchain-money-artists-hands
> 
> 
> "SuperRare Is Bringing in a New Wave of “Dank” Meme Economists" -
> 
> https://btcmanager.com/superrare-wave-dank-crypto-meme-economists/
> 
> 
> "Dimension of Common Destiny for Humanity: Polyfurcation
> Point — Revolution of Creating Value Dimension — part I" -
> 
> https://medium.com/@cryppix/mission-possible-7fe2129214fa
> 
> 
> "The Day the Music Burned" -
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html
> 
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

Wow
This is an amazing story Graziano!
Thanks for sharing.
:)

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 12:17 PM Graziano Milano via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I’m actively involved with Rural Urban Synthesis Society (RUSS)
>  which is a members-led Community Land Trust
> based in Lewisham (South East London), founded in 2009 with the aim of
> creating sustainable community-led neighbourhoods and truly affordable
> homes.
>
> It was a long and hard journey for us, but in June 2018 our first housing
> project was finally granted planning permission by Lewisham Council and
> soon after that we managed to get a £988k pre-development grant from the
> Mayor of London. Our story started a few years earlier when, after a
> campaign led by RUSS members, we successfully completed a public
> procurement process and signed a Development Agreement in April 2016 with
> Lewisham Council for a ‘community-led, affordable, self-build housing
> development’ in a derelict former school and industrial site at Church
> Grove in Ladywell, South East London.
>
> The project will provide 33 new sustainable, customised, high quality
> homes (including 5 social housing) that will be permanently affordable and
> partly self-built in order to reduce construction costs. Have a read at the 
> Innovative
> Approach to Community-Led Housing
> 
> brochure (which I designed) for more detailed info about RUSS’s vision.
>
> In summer 2017, I also successfully led a Spacehive crowdfunding campaign
>  to raise £50k+ to
> self-build (this summer) a community hub on the same site as a training
> facility for would-be community self-builders (may well be used for
> community arts projects as well). If you wish to find more about it, you
> can book a free ticket for the RUSS Community Hub - Build Launch Event
> 
> on Wednesday 15th May.
>
> Graziano
>
> On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 10:31, Tom Keene  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Interesting thread.
>>
>> On Cressingham Gardens Estate where I live, we're currently setting up
>> our own tenant management organisation and explored a coop option, but as
>> we have a very complex relationship with Lambeth Council (i.e intention to
>> demolish through regeneration) the coop structure didn't seem to fit. We
>> are now about to become a Community Interest Company (CIC).
>>
>> Interestingly, Lambeth appointed itself as the UK's first 'cooperative
>> council' though in reality this is meaningless. When housing officers
>> attempted to enact a cooperative approach they didn't have a clue what it
>> meant in practice, and said as much. The officers (and councillors)
>> practice is based around tight control of information through existing
>> technical systems, though they don't particularly recognise the role of
>> technology. Weirdly, Lambeth Labour party councillors partnered and
>> campaigned under a joint Labour/Coopertive Party banner. In other words,
>> they co-opted (I do like a pun;) the term cooperative to make their
>> policies of social cleaning through urban regeneration more palatable.
>>
>> What I've learnt through my experience of housing activism (trying to
>> stop a council demolishing my home) is that multiple organisational
>> structures are required to intervene in, alter, or instigate new power
>> dynamics. On Cressingham, for example, there's a Residents Association,
>> Community Interest company, Save Cressingham Campaign (organised around an
>> anarchist model), and a formal council structure based on a written
>> constitution. Each of which presents different possibilities of action -
>> you need this fluidity or ability to participate in different structures to
>> address a problems from multiple, simultaneous, directions. This
>> multiplicity is required because they things we are dealing undergo
>> constant change which is a central problem of capitalism... Can you tell
>> i'm in the middle of my PhD writeup  ;)
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2 May 2019, at 10:06 PM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
>>
>> Dear Julian,
>>
>> It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the
>> development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how
>> it goes.
>>
>> I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I
>> know) route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates
>> around platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model
>> (where the local authority has committed to favouring local and
>> cooperatively run services in public procurement decisions, with great
>> benefits to the local economy).
>>
>> I've followed the rocky journey of Resonate to build a blockchain-based
>> cooperative music service.

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

Hi Tom,
Ah! the need for a multiplicity of forms for action and organising is so
interesting.

We have been running the DAOWO labs for a couple of years, to bring
critical attention to the potential impacts of Decentralised Autonomous
Organisations on the blockchain. We ran one on "Doing Good
" and what you say
confirms one of the main things that I learned. This was around the limits
of good ideas, tools, mechanisms and even laws, to support action and
organisation without communities and their ecosystems.

However it does seem odd that coops should not be more easily formed,
recognised and integrated in cultural and community contexts. Why was it
not the right form of organisation for campaigning?

cheers!
Ruth


On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 10:31 AM Tom Keene 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Interesting thread.
>
> On Cressingham Gardens Estate where I live, we're currently setting up our
> own tenant management organisation and explored a coop option, but as we
> have a very complex relationship with Lambeth Council (i.e intention to
> demolish through regeneration) the coop structure didn't seem to fit. We
> are now about to become a Community Interest Company (CIC).
>
> Interestingly, Lambeth appointed itself as the UK's first 'cooperative
> council' though in reality this is meaningless. When housing officers
> attempted to enact a cooperative approach they didn't have a clue what it
> meant in practice, and said as much. The officers (and councillors)
> practice is based around tight control of information through existing
> technical systems, though they don't particularly recognise the role of
> technology. Weirdly, Lambeth Labour party councillors partnered and
> campaigned under a joint Labour/Coopertive Party banner. In other words,
> they co-opted (I do like a pun;) the term cooperative to make their
> policies of social cleaning through urban regeneration more palatable.
>
> What I've learnt through my experience of housing activism (trying to stop
> a council demolishing my home) is that multiple organisational structures
> are required to intervene in, alter, or instigate new power dynamics. On
> Cressingham, for example, there's a Residents Association, Community
> Interest company, Save Cressingham Campaign (organised around an anarchist
> model), and a formal council structure based on a written constitution.
> Each of which presents different possibilities of action - you need this
> fluidity or ability to participate in different structures to address a
> problems from multiple, simultaneous, directions. This multiplicity is
> required because they things we are dealing undergo constant change which
> is a central problem of capitalism... Can you tell i'm in the middle of my
> PhD writeup  ;)
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2019, at 10:06 PM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> Dear Julian,
>
> It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the
> development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how
> it goes.
>
> I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I
> know) route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates
> around platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model
> (where the local authority has committed to favouring local and
> cooperatively run services in public procurement decisions, with great
> benefits to the local economy).
>
> I've followed the rocky journey of Resonate to build a blockchain-based
> cooperative music service. And what I know of their experience chimes with
> the article when it says...
>
> "cooperatives are more difficult to bootstrap than corporations because
> they don’t have access to the same capital markets. Historically, it’s been
> a lot harder to coordinate investment from members with shared values than
> it is to raise funds with the singular goal of maximizing profits"
>
> We have often entertained formalising more cooperative organisational
> forms for Furtherfield projects, but have been put off by the
> administrative overheads and legal complexities and costs. The potential
> for DAOs to lighten the bureaucratic load is therefore very attractive!
>
> Look forward to hearing more about CoopDAO
> :)
> Ruth
>
>
>
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 10:39 Julian Brooks,  wrote:
>
> Hey Ruth,
>
> Yeah I also found that article of interest too.
> Insight from VC's, who'd a thunk it.
>
> I've been digging into Coops for the last couple of years. For me stems
> from a visceral reaction to DAO's & 'Code as Law'. I just immediately
> thought it'd be better to consider them more human-centric - with DAO's
> being such a potential for collectivising power.
>
> So started putting this kinda mental construct together 'Cooperative
> Autonomous Organisations', a sort of 'DAO, Coop, Mutual, Union' - type
> structure. This was to house the participants in the music licensing /
> smart contracts / IP-reinvention post-doc project that I hav

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Graziano Milano via NetBehaviour]

Yes, Amanda is part of it.

On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 13:35, Tom Keene  wrote:

> Ahh, I believe a very old friend of mine (Amanda Getrup) is building with
> you on Church Grove...
> Thanks for sharing the event details!
> T
>
>
> On Fri, 3 May 2019, at 12:17 PM, Graziano Milano via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I’m actively involved with Rural Urban Synthesis Society (RUSS)
>  which is a members-led Community Land Trust
> based in Lewisham (South East London), founded in 2009 with the aim of
> creating sustainable community-led neighbourhoods and truly affordable
> homes.
>
> It was a long and hard journey for us, but in June 2018 our first housing
> project was finally granted planning permission by Lewisham Council and
> soon after that we managed to get a £988k pre-development grant from the
> Mayor of London. Our story started a few years earlier when, after a
> campaign led by RUSS members, we successfully completed a public
> procurement process and signed a Development Agreement in April 2016 with
> Lewisham Council for a ‘community-led, affordable, self-build housing
> development’ in a derelict former school and industrial site at Church
> Grove in Ladywell, South East London.
>
> The project will provide 33 new sustainable, customised, high quality
> homes (including 5 social housing) that will be permanently affordable and
> partly self-built in order to reduce construction costs. Have a read at the 
> Innovative
> Approach to Community-Led Housing
> 
> brochure (which I designed) for more detailed info about RUSS’s vision.
>
> In summer 2017, I also successfully led a Spacehive crowdfunding campaign
>  to raise £50k+ to
> self-build (this summer) a community hub on the same site as a training
> facility for would-be community self-builders (may well be used for
> community arts projects as well). If you wish to find more about it, you
> can book a free ticket for the RUSS Community Hub - Build Launch Event
> 
> on Wednesday 15th May.
>
> Graziano
>
> On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 10:31, Tom Keene  wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> Interesting thread.
>
> On Cressingham Gardens Estate where I live, we're currently setting up our
> own tenant management organisation and explored a coop option, but as we
> have a very complex relationship with Lambeth Council (i.e intention to
> demolish through regeneration) the coop structure didn't seem to fit. We
> are now about to become a Community Interest Company (CIC).
>
> Interestingly, Lambeth appointed itself as the UK's first 'cooperative
> council' though in reality this is meaningless. When housing officers
> attempted to enact a cooperative approach they didn't have a clue what it
> meant in practice, and said as much. The officers (and councillors)
> practice is based around tight control of information through existing
> technical systems, though they don't particularly recognise the role of
> technology. Weirdly, Lambeth Labour party councillors partnered and
> campaigned under a joint Labour/Coopertive Party banner. In other words,
> they co-opted (I do like a pun;) the term cooperative to make their
> policies of social cleaning through urban regeneration more palatable.
>
> What I've learnt through my experience of housing activism (trying to stop
> a council demolishing my home) is that multiple organisational structures
> are required to intervene in, alter, or instigate new power dynamics. On
> Cressingham, for example, there's a Residents Association, Community
> Interest company, Save Cressingham Campaign (organised around an anarchist
> model), and a formal council structure based on a written constitution.
> Each of which presents different possibilities of action - you need this
> fluidity or ability to participate in different structures to address a
> problems from multiple, simultaneous, directions. This multiplicity is
> required because they things we are dealing undergo constant change which
> is a central problem of capitalism... Can you tell i'm in the middle of my
> PhD writeup  ;)
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2019, at 10:06 PM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> Dear Julian,
>
> It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the
> development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how
> it goes.
>
> I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I
> know) route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates
> around platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model
> (where the local authority has committed to favouring local and
> cooperatively run services in public procurement decisions, with great
> benefits to the local economy).
>
> I've followed the rocky 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Tom Keene]

Ahh, I believe a very old friend of mine (Amanda Getrup) is building with you 
on Church Grove...
Thanks for sharing the event details!
T 


On Fri, 3 May 2019, at 12:17 PM, Graziano Milano via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I’m actively involved with Rural Urban Synthesis Society (RUSS) 
>  which is a members-led Community Land Trust based 
> in Lewisham (South East London), founded in 2009 with the aim of creating 
> sustainable community-led neighbourhoods and truly affordable homes.
> 
> It was a long and hard journey for us, but in June 2018 our first housing 
> project was finally granted planning permission by Lewisham Council and soon 
> after that we managed to get a £988k pre-development grant from the Mayor of 
> London. Our story started a few years earlier when, after a campaign led by 
> RUSS members, we successfully completed a public procurement process and 
> signed a Development Agreement in April 2016 with Lewisham Council for a 
> ‘community-led, affordable, self-build housing development’ in a derelict 
> former school and industrial site at Church Grove in Ladywell, South East 
> London. 
> 
> The project will provide 33 new sustainable, customised, high quality homes 
> (including 5 social housing) that will be permanently affordable and partly 
> self-built in order to reduce construction costs. Have a read at the 
> Innovative Approach to Community-Led Housing 
>  brochure 
> (which I designed) for more detailed info about RUSS’s vision. 
> 
> In summer 2017, I also successfully led a Spacehive crowdfunding campaign 
>  to raise £50k+ to self-build 
> (this summer) a community hub on the same site as a training facility for 
> would-be community self-builders (may well be used for community arts 
> projects as well). If you wish to find more about it, you can book a free 
> ticket for the RUSS Community Hub - Build Launch Event 
> 
>  on Wednesday 15th May. 
> 
> Graziano
> 
> On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 10:31, Tom Keene  wrote:
>> __
>> Hi all, 
>> Interesting thread. 
>> 
>> On Cressingham Gardens Estate where I live, we're currently setting up our 
>> own tenant management organisation and explored a coop option, but as we 
>> have a very complex relationship with Lambeth Council (i.e intention to 
>> demolish through regeneration) the coop structure didn't seem to fit. We are 
>> now about to become a Community Interest Company (CIC).
>> 
>> Interestingly, Lambeth appointed itself as the UK's first 'cooperative 
>> council' though in reality this is meaningless. When housing officers 
>> attempted to enact a cooperative approach they didn't have a clue what it 
>> meant in practice, and said as much. The officers (and councillors) practice 
>> is based around tight control of information through existing technical 
>> systems, though they don't particularly recognise the role of technology. 
>> Weirdly, Lambeth Labour party councillors partnered and campaigned under a 
>> joint Labour/Coopertive Party banner. In other words, they co-opted (I do 
>> like a pun;) the term cooperative to make their policies of social cleaning 
>> through urban regeneration more palatable. 
>> 
>> What I've learnt through my experience of housing activism (trying to stop a 
>> council demolishing my home) is that multiple organisational structures are 
>> required to intervene in, alter, or instigate new power dynamics. On 
>> Cressingham, for example, there's a Residents Association, Community 
>> Interest company, Save Cressingham Campaign (organised around an anarchist 
>> model), and a formal council structure based on a written constitution. Each 
>> of which presents different possibilities of action - you need this fluidity 
>> or ability to participate in different structures to address a problems from 
>> multiple, simultaneous, directions. This multiplicity is required because 
>> they things we are dealing undergo constant change which is a central 
>> problem of capitalism... Can you tell i'm in the middle of my PhD writeup ;)
>> 
>> Tom 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 2 May 2019, at 10:06 PM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
>>> Dear Julian,
>>> 
>>> It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the 
>>> development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how 
>>> it goes.
>>> 
>>> I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I know) 
>>> route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates around 
>>> platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model (where the 
>>> local authority has committed to favouring local and cooperatively run 
>>> services in public procurement decisions, with great benefits to the local 
>>>

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Graziano Milano via NetBehaviour]

Hello,

I’m actively involved with Rural Urban Synthesis Society (RUSS)
 which is a members-led Community Land Trust based
in Lewisham (South East London), founded in 2009 with the aim of creating
sustainable community-led neighbourhoods and truly affordable homes.

It was a long and hard journey for us, but in June 2018 our first housing
project was finally granted planning permission by Lewisham Council and
soon after that we managed to get a £988k pre-development grant from the
Mayor of London. Our story started a few years earlier when, after a
campaign led by RUSS members, we successfully completed a public
procurement process and signed a Development Agreement in April 2016 with
Lewisham Council for a ‘community-led, affordable, self-build housing
development’ in a derelict former school and industrial site at Church
Grove in Ladywell, South East London.

The project will provide 33 new sustainable, customised, high quality homes
(including 5 social housing) that will be permanently affordable and partly
self-built in order to reduce construction costs. Have a read at the Innovative
Approach to Community-Led Housing

brochure (which I designed) for more detailed info about RUSS’s vision.

In summer 2017, I also successfully led a Spacehive crowdfunding campaign
 to raise £50k+ to self-build
(this summer) a community hub on the same site as a training facility for
would-be community self-builders (may well be used for community arts
projects as well). If you wish to find more about it, you can book a free
ticket for the RUSS Community Hub - Build Launch Event

on Wednesday 15th May.

Graziano

On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 10:31, Tom Keene  wrote:

> Hi all,
> Interesting thread.
>
> On Cressingham Gardens Estate where I live, we're currently setting up our
> own tenant management organisation and explored a coop option, but as we
> have a very complex relationship with Lambeth Council (i.e intention to
> demolish through regeneration) the coop structure didn't seem to fit. We
> are now about to become a Community Interest Company (CIC).
>
> Interestingly, Lambeth appointed itself as the UK's first 'cooperative
> council' though in reality this is meaningless. When housing officers
> attempted to enact a cooperative approach they didn't have a clue what it
> meant in practice, and said as much. The officers (and councillors)
> practice is based around tight control of information through existing
> technical systems, though they don't particularly recognise the role of
> technology. Weirdly, Lambeth Labour party councillors partnered and
> campaigned under a joint Labour/Coopertive Party banner. In other words,
> they co-opted (I do like a pun;) the term cooperative to make their
> policies of social cleaning through urban regeneration more palatable.
>
> What I've learnt through my experience of housing activism (trying to stop
> a council demolishing my home) is that multiple organisational structures
> are required to intervene in, alter, or instigate new power dynamics. On
> Cressingham, for example, there's a Residents Association, Community
> Interest company, Save Cressingham Campaign (organised around an anarchist
> model), and a formal council structure based on a written constitution.
> Each of which presents different possibilities of action - you need this
> fluidity or ability to participate in different structures to address a
> problems from multiple, simultaneous, directions. This multiplicity is
> required because they things we are dealing undergo constant change which
> is a central problem of capitalism... Can you tell i'm in the middle of my
> PhD writeup  ;)
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2019, at 10:06 PM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> Dear Julian,
>
> It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the
> development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how
> it goes.
>
> I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I
> know) route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates
> around platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model
> (where the local authority has committed to favouring local and
> cooperatively run services in public procurement decisions, with great
> benefits to the local economy).
>
> I've followed the rocky journey of Resonate to build a blockchain-based
> cooperative music service. And what I know of their experience chimes with
> the article when it says...
>
> "cooperatives are more difficult to bootstrap than corporations because
> they don’t have access to the same capital markets. Historically, it’s been
> a lot harder to coordinate investment from members with shared va

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Tom Keene]

Hi all, 
Interesting thread. 

On Cressingham Gardens Estate where I live, we're currently setting up our own 
tenant management organisation and explored a coop option, but as we have a 
very complex relationship with Lambeth Council (i.e intention to demolish 
through regeneration) the coop structure didn't seem to fit. We are now about 
to become a Community Interest Company (CIC).

Interestingly, Lambeth appointed itself as the UK's first 'cooperative council' 
though in reality this is meaningless. When housing officers attempted to enact 
a cooperative approach they didn't have a clue what it meant in practice, and 
said as much. The officers (and councillors) practice is based around tight 
control of information through existing technical systems, though they don't 
particularly recognise the role of technology. Weirdly, Lambeth Labour party 
councillors partnered and campaigned under a joint Labour/Coopertive Party 
banner. In other words, they co-opted (I do like a pun;) the term cooperative 
to make their policies of social cleaning through urban regeneration more 
palatable. 

What I've learnt through my experience of housing activism (trying to stop a 
council demolishing my home) is that multiple organisational structures are 
required to intervene in, alter, or instigate new power dynamics. On 
Cressingham, for example, there's a Residents Association, Community Interest 
company, Save Cressingham Campaign (organised around an anarchist model), and a 
formal council structure based on a written constitution. Each of which 
presents different possibilities of action - you need this fluidity or ability 
to participate in different structures to address a problems from multiple, 
simultaneous, directions. This multiplicity is required because they things we 
are dealing undergo constant change which is a central problem of capitalism... 
Can you tell i'm in the middle of my PhD writeup ;)

Tom 


On Thu, 2 May 2019, at 10:06 PM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Dear Julian,
> 
> It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the 
> development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how it 
> goes.
> 
> I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I know) 
> route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates around 
> platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model (where the 
> local authority has committed to favouring local and cooperatively run 
> services in public procurement decisions, with great benefits to the local 
> economy).
> 
> I've followed the rocky journey of Resonate to build a blockchain-based 
> cooperative music service. And what I know of their experience chimes with 
> the article when it says...
> 
> "cooperatives are more difficult to bootstrap than corporations because they 
> don’t have access to the same capital markets. Historically, it’s been a lot 
> harder to coordinate investment from members with shared values than it is to 
> raise funds with the singular goal of maximizing profits"
> 
> We have often entertained formalising more cooperative organisational forms 
> for Furtherfield projects, but have been put off by the administrative 
> overheads and legal complexities and costs. The potential for DAOs to lighten 
> the bureaucratic load is therefore very attractive!
> 
> Look forward to hearing more about CoopDAO
> :)
> Ruth
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 10:39 Julian Brooks,  wrote:
>> Hey Ruth,
>> 
>>  Yeah I also found that article of interest too.
>>  Insight from VC's, who'd a thunk it.
>> 
>>  I've been digging into Coops for the last couple of years. For me stems 
>>  from a visceral reaction to DAO's & 'Code as Law'. I just immediately 
>>  thought it'd be better to consider them more human-centric - with DAO's 
>>  being such a potential for collectivising power.
>> 
>>  So started putting this kinda mental construct together 'Cooperative 
>>  Autonomous Organisations', a sort of 'DAO, Coop, Mutual, Union' - type 
>>  structure. This was to house the participants in the music licensing / 
>>  smart contracts / IP-reinvention post-doc project that I have been 
>>  attempting to raise research funding for (unsuccessfully so far).
>> 
>>  I always thought the CoAO would be the trickiest part to put together, 
>>  and was actually planning to work in this during years 3-5 in a 5yr 
>>  project. After getting rejected for funding last October (working w. 
>>  UoMcr proposing to AHRC) I started exploring and getting involved with 
>>  the 'Aragon Project' community (cool people with some astonishing [& 
>>  really-existing] crypto tech-tools).
>> 
>>  A small Aragon group started seriously considering and engaging in what 
>>  a Cooperative DAO could be in practice. To this end I put togehter a 
>>  small funding proposal that was voted though by $ANT holders (the Aragon 
>>  token) a couple of days ago (whoop whoop!). So there'll be two of us 
>>  working a 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

Dear Julian,

It's great to hear that you have finally got some traction for the
development work that you want to do. I would be v. interested to hear how
it goes.

I've been interested in cooperatives as one (incomplete and partial I know)
route to democratising work and money flows - following the debates around
platform cooperatives, open cooperatives, and the Preston model (where the
local authority has committed to favouring local and cooperatively run
services in public procurement decisions, with great benefits to the local
economy).

I've followed the rocky journey of Resonate to build a blockchain-based
cooperative music service. And what I know of their experience chimes with
the article when it says...

"cooperatives are more difficult to bootstrap than corporations because
they don’t have access to the same capital markets. Historically, it’s been
a lot harder to coordinate investment from members with shared values than
it is to raise funds with the singular goal of maximizing profits"

We have often entertained formalising more cooperative organisational forms
for Furtherfield projects, but have been put off by the administrative
overheads and legal complexities and costs. The potential for DAOs to
lighten the bureaucratic load is therefore very attractive!

Look forward to hearing more about CoopDAO
:)
Ruth



On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 10:39 Julian Brooks,  wrote:

> Hey Ruth,
>
> Yeah I also found that article of interest too.
> Insight from VC's, who'd a thunk it.
>
> I've been digging into Coops for the last couple of years. For me stems
> from a visceral reaction to DAO's & 'Code as Law'. I just immediately
> thought it'd be better to consider them more human-centric - with DAO's
> being such a potential for collectivising power.
>
> So started putting this kinda mental construct together 'Cooperative
> Autonomous Organisations', a sort of 'DAO, Coop, Mutual, Union' - type
> structure. This was to house the participants in the music licensing /
> smart contracts / IP-reinvention post-doc project that I have been
> attempting to raise research funding for (unsuccessfully so far).
>
> I always thought the CoAO would be the trickiest part to put together,
> and was actually planning to work in this during years 3-5 in a 5yr
> project. After getting rejected for funding last October (working w.
> UoMcr proposing to AHRC) I started exploring and getting involved with
> the 'Aragon Project' community (cool people with some astonishing [&
> really-existing] crypto tech-tools).
>
> A small Aragon group started seriously considering and engaging in what
> a Cooperative DAO could be in practice. To this end I put togehter a
> small funding proposal that was voted though by $ANT holders (the Aragon
> token) a couple of days ago (whoop whoop!). So there'll be two of us
> working a couple of days a week each, with additional funds for CoopDAO
> members to also propose paid work a day p.w. to formulate and put into
> practice what this org can actually be.
>
> Quite excited:)
>
> https://twitter.com/AragonProject/status/1122172288462356484
>
>
> https://forum.aragon.org/t/agp-40-discussion-aragon-cooperative-dao-funding-proposal/783/12
>
> Totally agree Coops are definitely 'a thing' atm. For me, this is a very
> good thing. Also fascinating that (Ethereum mainly?) crypto is very much
> engaging in this too.
>
> I don't know where this is all going, perhaps this is what I like most.
>
> J.
>
> On 28/04/2019 15:21, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
> > Thanks Rob,
> > Full of great nuggets as always
> >
> > Past, Present, Future: From Co-ops to Cryptonetworks -
> >
> > https://a16z.com/2019/03/02/cooperatives-cryptonetworks/
> >
> >
> > Coops seem to be on the upsurge.
> > I'd be interested to know whether people here are already members of
> > coops as workers or customers and if so why?
> >
> >
> > ___
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> > 
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised
> > Arts Lab
> > +44 (0) 77370 02879
> >
> > *Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through
> > exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free
> > thinking.
> > furtherfield.org 
> >
> > *DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0
> > technologiesresearch hub
> >
> > for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
> >
> > decal.is 
> >
> >
> > Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
> > registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> > Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
> > Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
> >
>
> _

Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Andreas Maria Jacobs (nictoglobe) via NetBehaviour]

Agreed with the value of the essay
I suggest another worthwhile reading link by the beloved Laurie Penny:
https://breakermag.com/trapped-at-sea-with-cryptos-nouveau-riche/
Hilarious but insightful read! Andreas___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2019-05-01 5:00 a.m., Andreas Maria Jacobs (nictoglobe) via
NetBehaviour wrote:
> And this?
> 
> https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3136559

Nakamoto mentions their sources in the bibliography to the Bitcoin
Whitepaper, so I'm not sure how people lost track of its lineage. Both
proponents and critics seem to have though so this is a very useful essay.

These statements leapt out as things I have been trying to draw people's
attention to:

"by tracing the origins of the ideas in bitcoin, we can zero in on
Nakamoto's true leap of insight—the specific, complex way in which the
underlying components are put together."

"It might come as a surprise to you that Nakamoto doesn't mention that
term [blockchain] at all."
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Andreas Maria Jacobs (nictoglobe) via NetBehaviour]

And this?https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3136559___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Rob Myers]

On 2019-04-28 7:21 a.m., Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Thanks Rob,
> Full of great nuggets as always
>
> Past, Present, Future: From Co-ops to Cryptonetworks -
> 
> https://a16z.com/2019/03/02/cooperatives-cryptonetworks/
> 
> Coops seem to be on the upsurge.

Yes. I assume it's because of this ;-) -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/feb/15/tories-cooperatives-osborne

> I'd be interested to know whether people here are already members of
> coops as workers or customers and if so why?

I'm a member of a housing co-op because it's the only way to afford to
live where I do.

The people are mostly lovely, as are their dogs. I was very wary of
joining a co-op but after a couple of years it seems that The System
Mostly Works and there have been no suddenly disastrous measures adopted
at meetings (although the minor missteps always have the potential to
add up faster than I think people realize). It doesn't seem like a
template for a scalable or efficient form of socialism though.

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Julian Brooks]

Hey Ruth,

Yeah I also found that article of interest too.
Insight from VC's, who'd a thunk it.

I've been digging into Coops for the last couple of years. For me stems 
from a visceral reaction to DAO's & 'Code as Law'. I just immediately 
thought it'd be better to consider them more human-centric - with DAO's 
being such a potential for collectivising power.

So started putting this kinda mental construct together 'Cooperative 
Autonomous Organisations', a sort of 'DAO, Coop, Mutual, Union' - type 
structure. This was to house the participants in the music licensing / 
smart contracts / IP-reinvention post-doc project that I have been 
attempting to raise research funding for (unsuccessfully so far).

I always thought the CoAO would be the trickiest part to put together, 
and was actually planning to work in this during years 3-5 in a 5yr 
project. After getting rejected for funding last October (working w. 
UoMcr proposing to AHRC) I started exploring and getting involved with 
the 'Aragon Project' community (cool people with some astonishing [& 
really-existing] crypto tech-tools).

A small Aragon group started seriously considering and engaging in what 
a Cooperative DAO could be in practice. To this end I put togehter a 
small funding proposal that was voted though by $ANT holders (the Aragon 
token) a couple of days ago (whoop whoop!). So there'll be two of us 
working a couple of days a week each, with additional funds for CoopDAO 
members to also propose paid work a day p.w. to formulate and put into 
practice what this org can actually be.

Quite excited:)

https://twitter.com/AragonProject/status/1122172288462356484

https://forum.aragon.org/t/agp-40-discussion-aragon-cooperative-dao-funding-proposal/783/12

Totally agree Coops are definitely 'a thing' atm. For me, this is a very 
good thing. Also fascinating that (Ethereum mainly?) crypto is very much 
engaging in this too.

I don't know where this is all going, perhaps this is what I like most.

J.

On 28/04/2019 15:21, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Thanks Rob,
> Full of great nuggets as always
> 
> Past, Present, Future: From Co-ops to Cryptonetworks -
> 
> https://a16z.com/2019/03/02/cooperatives-cryptonetworks/
> 
> 
> Coops seem to be on the upsurge.
> I'd be interested to know whether people here are already members of 
> coops as workers or customers and if so why?
> 
> 
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> 
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised 
> Arts Lab
> +44 (0) 77370 02879
> 
> *Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through 
> exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free 
> thinking.
> furtherfield.org 
> 
> *DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 
> technologiesresearch hub
> 
> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
> 
> decal.is 
> 
> 
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, 
> Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
> 

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links - Anyone members of coops?

[Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour]

Thanks Rob,
Full of great nuggets as always


> Past, Present, Future: From Co-ops to Cryptonetworks -
>
> https://a16z.com/2019/03/02/cooperatives-cryptonetworks/
>
>
Coops seem to be on the upsurge.
I'd be interested to know whether people here are already members of coops
as workers or customers and if so why?


___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>


-- 
Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts
Lab
+44 (0) 77370 02879

*Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through
exhibitions,
labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
furtherfield.org 

*DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 technologies
research hub

for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.

decal.is 

Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[AGF poemproducer]

thank you, cool

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 00:34, Rob Myers  wrote:
> 
> CurseChain -
> 
> https://twitter.com/sarahjamielewis/status/1119653346120323072
> 
> 
> AR extinction protest -
> 
> https://twitter.com/m_pf/status/1118563218375442433
> 
> 
> Another William Gibson technology hits the street -
> 
> https://twitter.com/hardmaru/status/1120132384026808326
> 
> 
> The Rise and Fall of Internet Art Communities -
> 
> https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-rise-fall-internet-art-communities
> 
> 
> AI at the Barbican -
> 
> https://www.barbican.org.uk/our-story/press-room/ai-more-than-human
> 
> 
> And in Chicago -
> 
> https://observer.com/2019/04/artificial-intelligence-inspired-art-transfer-gallery-tech-dystopia/
> 
> 
> Past, Present, Future: From Co-ops to Cryptonetworks -
> 
> https://a16z.com/2019/03/02/cooperatives-cryptonetworks/
> 
> 
> "A 'Blockchain Bandit' Is Guessing Private Keys and Scoring Millions" -
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/blockchain-bandit-ethereum-weak-private-keys/
> 
> 
> "The 10 Top-selling Artworks Created After the 2008 Financial Crisis" -
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/artprice-10-top-selling-artworks-103000807.html
> 
> 
> "The Secret Messages Inside Chinese URLs" -
> 
> https://newrepublic.com/article/117608/chinese-number-websites-secret-meaning-urls
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[AGF poemproducer]

THANK YOU !

> On 20 Apr 2019, at 11:17, Rob Myers  wrote:
> 
> Seasteaders on the run -
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/5180644/seasteading-thailand-american-death-penalty/
> 
> 
> Game company get 3D printing model takedown notices badly wrong -
> 
> https://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2019/4/13/much-more-on-the-world-of-tanks-thingiverse-incident
> 
> 
> "The 64 short essays in this volume probe how unsound serves to activate
> the undead." -
> 
> https://www.urbanomic.com/book/unsoundundead/
> 
> 
> The second Rare Art Festival (May 2019) -
> 
> https://rareaf.splashthat.com/
> 
> 
> "To Be Ethical, AI Must Become Explainable. How Do We Get There?" -
> 
> https://singularityhub.com/2019/03/19/to-be-ethical-ai-must-become-explainable-how-do-we-get-there/
> 
> 
> "An eXplainability toolbox for machine learning" -
> 
> https://github.com/EthicalML/XAI
> 
> 
> Technomancy 101 -
> 
> https://technomancy101.com/enchantment/
> 
> 
> "A closer look at challenges and incentives on the FOAM Map" -
> 
> https://blog.foam.space/a-closer-look-at-challenges-and-incentives-on-the-foam-map-a8b2dac47538
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[BishopZ via NetBehaviour]

Yeah, it seems like they do a good job.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:57 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

> On 2019-04-17 7:51 p.m., BishopZ via NetBehaviour wrote:
> > Rob, I always love your links emails.
>
> Thank you! :-)
>
> > How was your experience of the Gray Area Festival?
> > were they nice to you?
> My experience was that they were very good at communicating in the run
> up to the event and that they ran things very smoothly. When the artwork
> of mine that they were showing had technical trouble they fixed it
> quickly. And the bit of the event that I saw had a wonderful variety of
> speakers and perspectives with a very engaged audience.
>
> - Rob.
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>


-- 
((º Ω º))

http://bishopZ.com
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[Rob Myers]

On 2019-04-17 7:51 p.m., BishopZ via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Rob, I always love your links emails.

Thank you! :-)

> How was your experience of the Gray Area Festival?
> were they nice to you?
My experience was that they were very good at communicating in the run
up to the event and that they ran things very smoothly. When the artwork
of mine that they were showing had technical trouble they fixed it
quickly. And the bit of the event that I saw had a wonderful variety of
speakers and perspectives with a very engaged audience.

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[BishopZ via NetBehaviour]

Ruth, you spoke too.

How was your experience?

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:51 PM BishopZ  wrote:

> Rob, I always love your links emails.
>
> How was your experience of the Gray Area Festival?
> were they nice to you?
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rob Myers  wrote:
>
>> Currently playing ;-) -
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vimZj8HW0Kg
>>
>>
>> New Ways of Seeing -
>>
>> https://twitter.com/jamesbridle/status/1117728872999596033
>>
>>
>> "Autoglyphs are the first “on-chain” generative art on the Ethereum
>> blockchain." -
>>
>> https://www.larvalabs.com/autoglyphs
>>
>>
>> "Some Definitions and References for terms I used frequently" -
>>
>> https://medium.com/@michaelzargham/jargon-party-e3616cd16a9
>>
>>
>> " a majority of the imaging libraries used for the picture of the
>> #blackhole were #GPLv3'd" -
>>
>> https://twitter.com/o0karen0o/status/111779149146834
>>
>>
>> "Toronto doctor “prescribes” income to poor patients" -
>>
>>
>> https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/toronto-doctor-prescribes-income-to-poor-patients
>>
>>
>> Painter by Numbers dataset -
>>
>> https://www.kaggle.com/c/painter-by-numbers
>>
>>
>> "I Yelled at Strangers About M&Ms Because a Token Told Me To " -
>>
>>
>> https://breakermag.com/i-yelled-at-strangers-about-mms-because-a-token-told-me-to/
>>
>>
>> Using cryptocurrency and smart contracts to change basic game theory -
>>
>>
>> https://medium.com/@virgilgr/ethereum-is-game-changing-technology-literally-d67e01a01cf8
>>
>>
>> "Who owns IP on the blockchain? CryptoKitties give glimpse into
>> less-cute crypto concerns" -
>>
>>
>> https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/who-owns-ip-on-the-blockchain-cryptokitties-give-glimpse-into-less-cute-crypto-concerns
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>
>
> --
> ((º Ω º))
>
> http://bishopZ.com
> ___
>


-- 
((º Ω º))

http://bishopZ.com
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links

[BishopZ via NetBehaviour]

Rob, I always love your links emails.

How was your experience of the Gray Area Festival?
were they nice to you?

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rob Myers  wrote:

> Currently playing ;-) -
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vimZj8HW0Kg
>
>
> New Ways of Seeing -
>
> https://twitter.com/jamesbridle/status/1117728872999596033
>
>
> "Autoglyphs are the first “on-chain” generative art on the Ethereum
> blockchain." -
>
> https://www.larvalabs.com/autoglyphs
>
>
> "Some Definitions and References for terms I used frequently" -
>
> https://medium.com/@michaelzargham/jargon-party-e3616cd16a9
>
>
> " a majority of the imaging libraries used for the picture of the
> #blackhole were #GPLv3'd" -
>
> https://twitter.com/o0karen0o/status/111779149146834
>
>
> "Toronto doctor “prescribes” income to poor patients" -
>
>
> https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/toronto-doctor-prescribes-income-to-poor-patients
>
>
> Painter by Numbers dataset -
>
> https://www.kaggle.com/c/painter-by-numbers
>
>
> "I Yelled at Strangers About M&Ms Because a Token Told Me To " -
>
>
> https://breakermag.com/i-yelled-at-strangers-about-mms-because-a-token-told-me-to/
>
>
> Using cryptocurrency and smart contracts to change basic game theory -
>
>
> https://medium.com/@virgilgr/ethereum-is-game-changing-technology-literally-d67e01a01cf8
>
>
> "Who owns IP on the blockchain? CryptoKitties give glimpse into
> less-cute crypto concerns" -
>
>
> https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/who-owns-ip-on-the-blockchain-cryptokitties-give-glimpse-into-less-cute-crypto-concerns
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>


-- 
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links ????

[Rob Myers]

On 2019-03-24 12:38 a.m., AGF poemproducer wrote:
> hi Rob, are you not sending your cool 'links' emails anymore ?
> miss them
> agee

Heya!

I've been ridiculously busy (as my tardy response to this demonstrates).

But I'll see what I can do soon. :-)

Thank you!

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Links ????

[AGF poemproducer]

hi Rob, are you not sending your cool 'links' emails anymore ?
miss them
agee

> On 19 Jan 2017, at 03:35, Rob Myers  wrote:
> __
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> netbehavi...@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour











sound & curation

AGF: @poemproducer
http://process.poemproducer.com/

www.antyegreie.com
www.poemproducer.com
https://soundcloud.com/agf-antye-greie
https://agf-poemproducer.bandcamp.com/



DOCUMENTATION:
nusasonic.poemproducer.com

"a line of women in the rice field, 
sonifying the mathematics 
of labour, rows, mud and space”
#sonicwilderness #nusasonic


AGF & Various ::: DISSIDENTOVA
http://dissidentova.poemproducer.com/
https://agf-poemproducer.bandcamp.com/album/dissidentova

#unlisteningwhitefeminism
https://soundcloud.com/ctm-festival/unlisteningwhitefeminism

ZANSUSPENSION w Afghan performance artist Kubra Khademi
https://vimeo.com/channels/poemproducer/240798694

INTERNATIONAL ANTIFASCIST FEMINIST FRONT feat Angela Dimitrakaki
https://www.mixcloud.com/poemproducer/antisfascist-feminist-front/

MIX: international women producers for the #Rojava women revolution
https://www.nts.live/shows/guests/episodes/agf-w-rojava-15th-april-2016

#poemontrial Dareen Tatour
radio interview: 
https://dareentatour.bandcamp.com/album/radioart106-116-dareen-tatour-poem-on-trial
compilation: https://dareentatour.bandcamp.com/album/poemontrial
campaign website: https://dareentatour.bandcamp.com/album/poemontrial

DOCUMENTA14 archive #DISembTEChyb
https://www.mixcloud.com/SAVVY_Funk/playlists/disembtechyb/

FIELD WORK & SOUND CAMPS (sonic wild{er}ness)
#sonicwilderness http://soccos.eu/blog/detail/sonicwilderness
#fieldnotes https://fieldnotes.hybridmatters.net/posts/sonic-wild-code
#russula http://soccos.eu/blog/detail/russula-camp-blueberry-techno
#residence http://soccos.eu/blog/detail/are-we-exchanging-culture
#SAMA 
https://www.uniarts.fi/en/blogs/sama-sound-art-sonic-arts/feedback-session-boat
Stone Field: https://vimeo.com/channels/poemproducer/139911900
Monster Cavern: https://vimeo.com/channels/poemproducer/140557392
Rice Field: https://vimeo.com/298112793
Sonic TREEing: https://vimeo.com/303702193




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