Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2006-07-23 Thread John R. Culleton
On Thursday 02 June 2005 18:25, Hartmut Henkel wrote:
 On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, John R. Culleton wrote:
  (K.I.S.S. = Keep it simple silly.)

 wasn't the 2nd S. stupid?

 Regards, Hartmut
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A late response:

Yes, but I try to be nice. I never know whose help I may need
someday :)
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Re: [NTG-context] fleurons - reprise

2005-07-12 Thread Joachim Trinkwitz

Am 31.05.2005 um 23:48 schrieb Adam Lindsay:

Yeah, I picked up the Fleurons of Hope recently, and have been  
thinking

of interesting ways to use it in ConTeXt.


Has someone looked at the free downloadable Web-O-Mints (both  
TrueType and Postscript: http://www.galapagosdesign.com/download/ 
index.html) or Fleurons.ttf (http://www.grsites.com/modperl/ 
fontview.cgi?dir=ffn=FLEUR_TT), both very attractive lokking sets of  
traditional ornaments and border pieces?


Regards,
joachim

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Re: [NTG-context] fleurons - reprise

2005-07-12 Thread John R. Culleton
n Tuesday 12 July 2005 08:22 am, Joachim Trinkwitz wrote:
 Am 31.05.2005 um 23:48 schrieb Adam Lindsay:
  Yeah, I picked up the Fleurons of Hope recently, and have been
  thinking
  of interesting ways to use it in ConTeXt.

 Has someone looked at the free downloadable Web-O-Mints (both
 TrueType and Postscript: http://www.galapagosdesign.com/download/
 index.html) or Fleurons.ttf (http://www.grsites.com/modperl/
 fontview.cgi?dir=ffn=FLEUR_TT), both very attractive lokking sets of
 traditional ornaments and border pieces?

 Regards,
 joachim
Use WeBoMints all the time, especially character '4' for a
section divider or chapter end decoration.
-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
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Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-06-02 Thread Staszek Wawrykiewicz
On Tue, 31 May 2005, Karl Berry wrote:

 this differes per year; i keep changing these names and always lag
 behind one tex live version
  
 TL has always distributed both pzdr.tfm and uzdr.tfm.  I don't have an
 easy way to check the situation in teTeX.

teTeX has only pzdr.tfm. See below for reasons.
 
 one of the previous tex lives someone moved the urw's to some 35vf
 folder, after that things went bad (got lost and such); i discussed
 this with Staszek and he reverted it;
 
 Starting in TL 2003, uzdr.tfm was indeed put under urw35vf instead of
 just urw.  I do not know/remember why, or who did it (though we could
 check the logs), or what got lost as a result.  It is also still the
 case in the current sources, so I also don't know what you mean by
 Staszek reverted it.  Staszek, what did you do?

I can explain it once again. In 2003 all that urw mess was hopefully
cleaned on CTAN and then on TL. Discussion started on 6 june and on 
24 july that's me, who cleaned it for TL. The *base* 35 urw fonts (only
afm and pfm/pfb) were prepared *after* all that urw tfm, vf etc. support
files were made.

From README.base35
  TeX systems can use these fonts as drop-in replacements for
  Adobe's PostScript Base fonts, which are not free.  No
  particular TeX metrics, virtual fonts or macro files are
  provided for URW's base fonts.  They are to be used with the
  same support files as Adobe's originals, i.e., with the
  files of the PSNFSS collection.

  AFM and PFM files are supplied here for the sake of
  completeness only.  They are normally not required for use
  with TeX.

In fact, nobody knows how the *old* mess with tfm, vf etc. fits
to more *new* urw pfb which are of better quality then the older ones. 
Anyway both distributions cannot be mixed. Not to say about packaging, etc.
So I introduced urw35vf (#3416) which contains all (historical) stuff
for those using urw fonts directly (.vf, .tfm, .fd, .sty files).
Everybody has freedom using them from TL. Thomas removed such stuff
from teTeX as simply garbage.

 Meanwhile, the afm and pfb are under just urw/.  It seems odd, though I
 can imagine how it could happen.

??? Everything is OK: fonts/afm/urw/ and fonts/type1/urw/

 Clearly the URW fonts are not 100% identical to the Adobe fonts, but in
 practice we have to accept the URW Type 1's under the p* names, because
 the p* names are what most documents have historically used.  We can't
 suddenly make those documents unusable, that would be disastrous.
 
 For that matter, the Adobe fonts themselves have changed over the
 years.  Nothing is perfect.

Right.
 
 but context (users) expect the whole set of urw (afm  pfb) to be
 present because they generate other encodings and such;
 
 uzdr.afm and uzdr.pfb are both in the current TL sources, and always
 have been.  I know of no reason or suggestion to delete them.

They are as well present in teTeX. 

   i think that we need to get rid of the urw mappings in the aliases file
 
 I agree.  I have now deleted the aliases file altogether from the TL
 sources.  We'll see how that flies.  I don't know if that will change
 anything wrt gwTeX, though.

Ahh, I see! aliases could cause problems. Thanks for deleting that file.

Best,

-- 
Staszek Wawrykiewicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-06-02 Thread Staszek Wawrykiewicz
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Hans Hagen wrote:

 Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:
AFM and PFM files are supplied here for the sake of
completeness only.  They are normally not required for use
with TeX.

 this is not true, you need the afm's when you use them to make graphics
 in other progs that will then be used by tex; also, you need them in
 order to generate metrics for encodings other than teh shipped ones

Hans, I cited readme by Walter and tried to explain: there's no ready
tfm metrics for _those_ urw. Existing ones were generated for older, not 
so nice urw fonts.

  In fact, nobody knows how the *old* mess with tfm, vf etc. fits
  to more *new* urw pfb which are of better quality then the older ones. 
  Anyway both distributions cannot be mixed. Not to say about packaging, etc.
  So I introduced urw35vf (#3416) which contains all (historical) stuff
  for those using urw fonts directly (.vf, .tfm, .fd, .sty files).
  Everybody has freedom using them from TL. Thomas removed such stuff
  from teTeX as simply garbage.
 
 he's free to do that but it sounds strange and dangerous to me

Why? Anybody is free to make tfm files, as afm files are always 
available for _that_ set of urw fonts.
 
-- 
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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-06-02 Thread John R. Culleton
On Wednesday 01 June 2005 11:53 pm, Hans Hagen wrote:
 Staszek Wawrykiewicz wrote:
  Why? Anybody is free to make tfm files, as afm files are
  always available for _that_ set of urw fonts.

 the problem is that there is a bunch of context users out there
 who think (are being told, whatever) that they should use the
 provided ones instead of generating them by texfont or afm2tfm
 (so they want to use the presumably present ones and not
 generate them by texfont, which is ok for me; but unfortunately
 they are not always there; and then they try the ps ones, which
 are only there for ec and not for texnansi and then ... and
 then ...)

 well, i give up on fonts ... maybe some day i just put metric
 files in the context zip (ec texnansi qx), why should i care
 about those few extra bytes


I use only the 8r encoding because I write/typeset in (American)
English and I need special characters like the copyright symbol.
the registered symbol, the trademark (tm) symbol and so on. Some
of these are not available in other encodings, or at least I
cannot find them. I understand that Europeans prefer other
encodings with good reason but 8r needs to remain in the scheme
of things IMO. 

I not only use plain tex, pdftex, Context etc. in my own work I
advertise these Open Source solutions as effective alternatives
to e.g., InDesign. To sell the system to new users requires a
K.I.S.S. approach. 

Is there a problem in Context with making the URW fonts the
default and then just aliasing the Adobe names to the URW versions?
The more we can hide these details the better. 

Font handling is the great Achilles heel of all flavors of TeX,
as we all know. Since Context is (relatively) new if we can
jigger things around so that the K.I.S.S. principle is adhered
to then selling the concept to new users will be easier. Too
many people in the printing world have horrid memories of LaTeX
from their college days or other earlier experience.

(K.I.S.S. = Keep it simple silly.) 

 thanks for your patience

And thanks for Context!

-- 

John Culleton




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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-06-02 Thread Stuart Jansen
On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 00:25 +0200, Hartmut Henkel wrote:
 On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, John R. Culleton wrote:
 
  (K.I.S.S. = Keep it simple silly.)
 
 wasn't the 2nd S. stupid?

I always thought it was Stuart. ;-)

-- 
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Guru Labs, L.C.


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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-05-31 Thread Hans Hagen

Adam Lindsay wrote:

Hans Hagen said this at Tue, 31 May 2005 08:37:26 +0200:



Adam Lindsay wrote:



\loadmapfile[pdftex_dl14] % Make sure we embed the dingbats
\definefontsynonym [ZapfDingbat] [pzdr] % maybe uzdr 


better use uzdr since pzdr is an aliassed file



another thing to work on: uzdr.tfm wasn't on my gwTeX install, but an
aliased pzdr was. Sigh.


this differes per year; i keep changing these names and always lag behind one 
tex live version because i find out afterwards


Let's ask the Master Of TeXLive Fiel Management:

Karl,

i think that we need to get rid of the urw mappings in the aliases file

we can just have two copies of those (few) files and we need to make sure that 
we don't change it [i wonder, is it possible to make some parts of the 
repository write only, i.e. avoid the danger of removal?)


one of the previous tex lives someone moved the urw's to some 35vf folder, after 
that things went bad (got lost and such); i discussed this with Staszek and he 
reverted it;


this kind of things has to do with the everlasting some urw fonts can be 
exchanged with some built in ps fonts as claimed by walter cum suis (which is 
not true, ask nelson -)


i have no problem if this introduces a mess for latex users but context (users) 
expect the whole set of urw (afm  pfb) to be present because they generate 
other encodings and such;


[i cc to volker * jerzy + staszek because they may know of similar problems 
bering reported]


Hans

ps. i know that thomas has a minimalistic approach: as less files as possible 
and this is one source of the aliasses file; maybe fine for tetex, but 
potentially disastrous for tex live


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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-05-31 Thread Adam Lindsay
Hans Hagen said this at Tue, 31 May 2005 12:14:44 +0200:

ps. i know that thomas has a minimalistic approach: as less files as
possible 
and this is one source of the aliasses file; maybe fine for tetex, but 
potentially disastrous for tex live

All good points. The solution (work-around that fits in currently
existing schemes) that presented itself about 15 minutes after hitting
send was to add 
\definefontsynonym [uzdr] [pzdr]
...to each of the adobekb typescripts.

And to add uzdr.tfm to the list of candidates for cont-fnt dist, as well. :)
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Re: [NTG-context] fleurons - reprise

2005-05-31 Thread Adam Lindsay
Keith McKay said this at Tue, 31 May 2005 20:16:19 +0100:

Thanks to Hans and Adam for the helpful advice.  The code from Adam looked a
bit daunting to me as a learner at first but when I changed [pzdr] to [uzdr]
it worked fine.

Oh good. The available fonts and metrics (sadly) vary with every
distribution, so that's a hard thing to get right.

Sorry the code was dense. If you want it broken down and explained, let
me know.

  I attach the output from Adam's code which also includes
his query about symb-run in a previous message. Hope this is of use.  From
the further discussion between them I hope I didn't open a can of worms.

The attachment was probably too big for the list--if you want another
pair of eyes on it, feel free to send it off-list.

One last question.  I did a search on the web for fleuron fonts and came up
with a few interesting hits.  

Yeah, I picked up the Fleurons of Hope recently, and have been thinking
of interesting ways to use it in ConTeXt.
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontaid/fleurons-of-hope/

To use these in Context is it a case of
following the 'Texfont explained' and 'Fonts in Context' manuals?  I think I
have seen some 'My Way' (or is it 'This way'... well, 'Whatever way' ;) )
on the Wiki about this as well.  

I think Bill McClain's page is a great place to start. My MyWays sort of
pick up on topics after that.

I realize this is not a trivial pursuit for
a beginner but I would like to give it a try. Are there any pitfalls to look
out for or should I just dive in?

Dive in!
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[NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-05-30 Thread Keith McKay
Dear All

I am in the process of learning the wonders of Context and enjoying the
challenge.My Context is the stand alone version for Windows which I
downloaded from the Pragma site.  I'm getting used to using the Scite editor
although it was a little difficult in the beginning.  

Just now I'm putting together some short stories and am having fun playing
about with layout and using different kinds of fonts. Also I'm reading 'The
Elements of Typographic Style' by Robert Bringhurst which is absolutely
superb!  I would never have thought that a book on typography would be so
easy to read.  In Bringhurst's book he mentions fleurons - A horticultural
dingbat which I would like to access.  I have looked through the Context
manuals but with no success.  Could someone give me some hints?

Thanks
Keith McKay
Hamilton, Scotland

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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-05-30 Thread Hans Hagen

Keith McKay wrote:


easy to read.  In Bringhurst's book he mentions fleurons - A horticultural
dingbat which I would like to access.  I have looked through the Context


if you can track down the font, it's no problem to get it typeset

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Fleurons

2005-05-30 Thread Adam Lindsay
Hans Hagen said this at Mon, 30 May 2005 23:52:42 +0200:

 easy to read.  In Bringhurst's book he mentions fleurons - A horticultural
 dingbat which I would like to access.  I have looked through the Context

if you can track down the font, it's no problem to get it typeset

I've been revisiting my Dingbat support, and am close to a release, but
ran into a bug on my system. In the meantime, this might help:

\loadmapfile[pdftex_dl14] % Make sure we embed the dingbats
\definefontsynonym [ZapfDingbat] [pzdr] % maybe uzdr 

\def\ZapfDingbatSymb#1{\getglyph{ZapfDingbat}{\char#1}}

\startsymbolset[Zapf Hearts] 
   \definesymbol[HeavyBlackHeart] [\ZapfDingbatSymb{164}] 
   \definesymbol[RotatedHeavyBlackHeartBullet][\ZapfDingbatSymb{165}] 
   \definesymbol[FloralHeart] [\ZapfDingbatSymb{166}] 
   \definesymbol[RotatedFloralHeartBullet][\ZapfDingbatSymb{167}]
\stopsymbolset

\definesymbol[1][{\symbol[Zapf Hearts][FloralHeart]}] 
\definesymbol[2][{\symbol[Zapf Hearts][RotatedFloralHeartBullet]}] 

\starttext

\startitemize
\item Most fleurons are font||specific.
\item Zapf Dingbats contains a couple interesting fleurons.
 \startitemize
 \item This is a place to start.
 \stopitemize
\stopitemize

\centerline{\symbol[Zapf Hearts][HeavyBlackHeart]}

\stoptext
 

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