Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 22/10/2012 Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg ... http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it I've replaced it with a 300x100 version of the reference logo. I'm not sure it is being used, but anyway it's good to enforce consistency and the previous version remains of course in SVN. Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:46 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/24 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo Nobody made Michael Acevedo the official artist, but a mailing list vote approved his logo as the Apache OpenOffice logo for the 3.4.x series (at that time, we believed that the version after 3.4.x would be 4.x). So, again: for 3.4 and all official communication in 3.4 the reference logo is that one, and not something that is 95% similar to it or that tweaks colors/fonts. We must be consistent. This is the reason why we cannot use your SVG version now. But it is understood, as Graham wrote, that this is a temporary solution. For future releases we are free to adopt any new logo, having a similarity to the current one anywhere between 0% and 100%, and since we are not under pressure at the moment we can explore possibilities for a full rebranding: logo, site, palette, icons... If we go for a full rebranding, it is good to make it coincident with the 4.0 release since it would be easier to communicate and less suspicious to users. +1. 4.0 is the time for a full rebranding, not before. Of course we need to start with this sooner than later, but IMO it is not urgent. Regards Ricardo Disagree completely, a rebrand is not a trivial matter, that can be knocked up in a weekend. We are marketing a consumer space product and therefore a lot of preparation needs to be done including researching our endusers. Right now the Marketing, Art and UX people in the project are a miniscule in number. It has been difficult to inspire people to join the project because it was seen as same old, same old. A whole lot of developers trying desperately not to change anything right down to keeping the old Oracle Logo. Whether this impression is right or wrong is not the point, to get people excited we need to get moving on the process so that people can see that there is something in the project worth putting some work into. Rob asked an excellent question some time back Where are the next 100 million users coming from I've asked the same question myself in the past, as have others. Ian Lynch took the bull by the horns and took it to the educationalists in the US and schools in the EU, Drew (IIRC, my memory is rubbish correct me if I'm wrong) went after Librarians. There are other avenues but at the end of the day we need the consumers talking about the product. Joe Brockmeier did a session on Marketing OSS at LCA a few years back, I asked him the same question or at least a variation on the theme. His short answer was You've got almost a monopoly in the Linux space, so what the hell are you doing here? But in any case you have get the great unwashed to talk about it, and to do that give 'em something shiny and new. We have something shiny and new! Now what we have to do is package it like it is shiny and new and that is not something that you do in five minutes. I would rather be ready months early for the launch of 4.0 than have a last minute panic that ends in a half baked result. We want people talking about the new brand not sniggering about a lost opportunity. The 4.0 branding will define this project and the product for years to come and should therefore be done with an effort that reflects that responsibility. The next 100 million will thank us for the effort or stay away in droves if we look as if we didn't bother too much. Cheers GL Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
2012/10/25 Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:46 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody made Michael Acevedo the official artist, but a mailing list vote approved his logo as the Apache OpenOffice logo for the 3.4.x series (at that time, we believed that the version after 3.4.x would be 4.x). So, again: for 3.4 and all official communication in 3.4 the reference logo is that one, and not something that is 95% similar to it or that tweaks colors/fonts. We must be consistent. This is the reason why we cannot use your SVG version now. But it is understood, as Graham wrote, that this is a temporary solution. For future releases we are free to adopt any new logo, having a similarity to the current one anywhere between 0% and 100%, and since we are not under pressure at the moment we can explore possibilities for a full rebranding: logo, site, palette, icons... If we go for a full rebranding, it is good to make it coincident with the 4.0 release since it would be easier to communicate and less suspicious to users. +1. 4.0 is the time for a full rebranding, not before. Of course we need to start with this sooner than later, but IMO it is not urgent. Regards Ricardo Disagree completely, a rebrand is not a trivial matter, that can be knocked up in a weekend. We are marketing a consumer space product and therefore a lot of preparation needs to be done including researching our endusers. I'm not saying that rebranding is a trivial matter: I'm just saying that 4.0 is the time for rebranding and not before. As Kevin noted, we can go on for now just updating what we have but of course we need to have everything in place before 4.0 is released. And the best way to have everything in place at the right time is to start *right now*... but without making a storm on a teacup: Usually, the sense of urgency goes against good creativity. I too want a shiny and new package, and I prefer to have everything ready with plenty of time as you do. We fully agree on this. Let's see Kevin's (and other's!) proposal. Regards Ricardo Right now the Marketing, Art and UX people in the project are a miniscule in number. It has been difficult to inspire people to join the project because it was seen as same old, same old. A whole lot of developers trying desperately not to change anything right down to keeping the old Oracle Logo. Whether this impression is right or wrong is not the point, to get people excited we need to get moving on the process so that people can see that there is something in the project worth putting some work into. Rob asked an excellent question some time back Where are the next 100 million users coming from I've asked the same question myself in the past, as have others. Ian Lynch took the bull by the horns and took it to the educationalists in the US and schools in the EU, Drew (IIRC, my memory is rubbish correct me if I'm wrong) went after Librarians. There are other avenues but at the end of the day we need the consumers talking about the product. Joe Brockmeier did a session on Marketing OSS at LCA a few years back, I asked him the same question or at least a variation on the theme. His short answer was You've got almost a monopoly in the Linux space, so what the hell are you doing here? But in any case you have get the great unwashed to talk about it, and to do that give 'em something shiny and new. We have something shiny and new! Now what we have to do is package it like it is shiny and new and that is not something that you do in five minutes. I would rather be ready months early for the launch of 4.0 than have a last minute panic that ends in a half baked result. We want people talking about the new brand not sniggering about a lost opportunity. The 4.0 branding will define this project and the product for years to come and should therefore be done with an effort that reflects that responsibility. The next 100 million will thank us for the effort or stay away in droves if we look as if we didn't bother too much. Cheers GL Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 25 October 2012 10:36, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/25 Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:46 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody made Michael Acevedo the official artist, but a mailing list vote approved his logo as the Apache OpenOffice logo for the 3.4.x series (at that time, we believed that the version after 3.4.x would be 4.x). So, again: for 3.4 and all official communication in 3.4 the reference logo is that one, and not something that is 95% similar to it or that tweaks colors/fonts. We must be consistent. This is the reason why we cannot use your SVG version now. But it is understood, as Graham wrote, that this is a temporary solution. For future releases we are free to adopt any new logo, having a similarity to the current one anywhere between 0% and 100%, and since we are not under pressure at the moment we can explore possibilities for a full rebranding: logo, site, palette, icons... If we go for a full rebranding, it is good to make it coincident with the 4.0 release since it would be easier to communicate and less suspicious to users. +1. 4.0 is the time for a full rebranding, not before. Of course we need to start with this sooner than later, but IMO it is not urgent. Regards Ricardo Disagree completely, a rebrand is not a trivial matter, that can be knocked up in a weekend. We are marketing a consumer space product and therefore a lot of preparation needs to be done including researching our endusers. I'm not saying that rebranding is a trivial matter: I'm just saying that 4.0 is the time for rebranding and not before. As Kevin noted, we can go on for now just updating what we have but of course we need to have everything in place before 4.0 is released. And the best way to have everything in place at the right time is to start *right now*... but without making a storm on a teacup: Usually, the sense of urgency goes against good creativity. I too want a shiny and new package, and I prefer to have everything ready with plenty of time as you do. We fully agree on this. Let's see Kevin's (and other's!) proposal. Rob already suggested a competition. I think that is a good idea and I can help organise it but I don't want to put a lot of time into that if it is not going to be considered a likely way forward. Marketing should not distract code developers from their input as it is an inefficient use of resources. Regards Ricardo -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Rob already suggested a competition. I think that is a good idea and I can help organise it but I don't want to put a lot of time into that if it is not going to be considered a likely way forward. Marketing should not distract code developers from their input as it is an inefficient use of resources. OK so let's put a proposal that we get a competition under way for complete branding package that will give us our 4.0 brand. If you like I'll frame something tonight after work unless you want to get something started before then. Cheers GL -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:36 PM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/25 Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:46 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody made Michael Acevedo the official artist, but a mailing list vote approved his logo as the Apache OpenOffice logo for the 3.4.x series (at that time, we believed that the version after 3.4.x would be 4.x). So, again: for 3.4 and all official communication in 3.4 the reference logo is that one, and not something that is 95% similar to it or that tweaks colors/fonts. We must be consistent. This is the reason why we cannot use your SVG version now. But it is understood, as Graham wrote, that this is a temporary solution. For future releases we are free to adopt any new logo, having a similarity to the current one anywhere between 0% and 100%, and since we are not under pressure at the moment we can explore possibilities for a full rebranding: logo, site, palette, icons... If we go for a full rebranding, it is good to make it coincident with the 4.0 release since it would be easier to communicate and less suspicious to users. +1. 4.0 is the time for a full rebranding, not before. Of course we need to start with this sooner than later, but IMO it is not urgent. Regards Ricardo Disagree completely, a rebrand is not a trivial matter, that can be knocked up in a weekend. We are marketing a consumer space product and therefore a lot of preparation needs to be done including researching our endusers. I'm not saying that rebranding is a trivial matter: I'm just saying that 4.0 is the time for rebranding and not before. As Kevin noted, we can go on for now just updating what we have but of course we need to have everything in place before 4.0 is released. And the best way to have everything in place at the right time is to start *right now*... but without making a storm on a teacup: Usually, the sense of urgency goes against good creativity. Disagree, Panic goes against good creativity. You and I obviously have different definitions of urgent. I have had experience with the glacial speed that goes with making major design decisions in an OSS project. I don't know when the launch of 4.0 is due, do you have that info. If it is within the next six months then we are way behind the eight ball already. Cheers GL I too want a shiny and new package, and I prefer to have everything ready with plenty of time as you do. We fully agree on this. Let's see Kevin's (and other's!) proposal. Regards Ricardo Right now the Marketing, Art and UX people in the project are a miniscule in number. It has been difficult to inspire people to join the project because it was seen as same old, same old. A whole lot of developers trying desperately not to change anything right down to keeping the old Oracle Logo. Whether this impression is right or wrong is not the point, to get people excited we need to get moving on the process so that people can see that there is something in the project worth putting some work into. Rob asked an excellent question some time back Where are the next 100 million users coming from I've asked the same question myself in the past, as have others. Ian Lynch took the bull by the horns and took it to the educationalists in the US and schools in the EU, Drew (IIRC, my memory is rubbish correct me if I'm wrong) went after Librarians. There are other avenues but at the end of the day we need the consumers talking about the product. Joe Brockmeier did a session on Marketing OSS at LCA a few years back, I asked him the same question or at least a variation on the theme. His short answer was You've got almost a monopoly in the Linux space, so what the hell are you doing here? But in any case you have get the great unwashed to talk about it, and to do that give 'em something shiny and new. We have something shiny and new! Now what we have to do is package it like it is shiny and new and that is not something that you do in five minutes. I would rather be ready months early for the launch of 4.0 than have a last minute panic that ends in a half baked result. We want people talking about the new brand not sniggering about a lost opportunity. The 4.0 branding will define this project and the product for years to come and should therefore be done with an effort that reflects that responsibility. The next 100 million will thank us for the effort or stay away in droves if we look as if we didn't bother too much. Cheers GL Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 25 October 2012 17:52, Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Rob already suggested a competition. I think that is a good idea and I can help organise it but I don't want to put a lot of time into that if it is not going to be considered a likely way forward. Marketing should not distract code developers from their input as it is an inefficient use of resources. OK so let's put a proposal that we get a competition under way for complete branding package that will give us our 4.0 brand. If you like I'll frame something tonight after work unless you want to get something started before then. Hi Graham, go ahead. I have a deadline to get an EU project report in next week so I can't do too much until after that. Cheers GL -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Graham Lauder wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/download/**attachments/27834483/** ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). The SVG was done by Alexandro from Michael's bitmap IIRC. Michael's was never official, it was just the one that happened to be available. There was never any consensus that Michael's was going to be anything other than a stop-gap for a first release from the ApacheOO podling. Going forward there needs to be proposals and discussion and a new branding that reflects the New OpenOffice. KG01 - agreed, lets start exploring design directions. I'll share my designs shortly. On training this week, just need some time at home office :) I've put up a graphical text first proposal on the wiki to explore the concept of a purely Graphical logo that doesn't use a particular font. This would avoid secondary licensing issues that could go with using a Typeface from a Forge. The graphic was created in Inkscape from scratch just using inkscape drawing tools with out recourse to using fonts even as a guide. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations Cheers GL
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo as a whole. So far Nobody wants a proprietary fonts. So this logo is out. Now the issue is if there is any problem using an OpenType License font. done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). We have two separate issues here: 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/ or anyway under SVN. Most logos are variation of the first one. We can generate a whole new set for 4.0, or we can even go back to the pre-Oracle OpenOffice brand refresh and get the OpenOffice with the gulls. The Orb was never part of the logo, it was label a 'symbol' to be used in a different context of the logo, just like the wireframe gulls was for 2.4. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. We need a framework to make decisions lazy conscensus, voting schemes, etc. But it seems there is a generalized knowledge that this is not only the logo but Application Icons, Mime Icons, and Module icons. Keeping a fresh logo with a very dated iconset is just not a good practice, specially for a 4.0 release. Regards, Andrea. Should this be taken to marketing list? Is really a non-coding topic and traditionally was handled by the art Project which was a subproject of marketing. Most of the visual identity and design need to be upstreamed to marketing to develop marketing kits. -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/24/12, Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Graham Lauder wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/download/**attachments/27834483/** ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). The SVG was done by Alexandro from Michael's bitmap IIRC. Michael's was never official, it was just the one that happened to be available. There was never any consensus that Michael's was going to be anything other than a stop-gap for a first release from the ApacheOO podling. Going forward there needs to be proposals and discussion and a new branding that reflects the New OpenOffice. KG01 - agreed, lets start exploring design directions. I'll share my designs shortly. On training this week, just need some time at home office :) I've put up a graphical text first proposal on the wiki to explore the concept of a purely Graphical logo that doesn't use a particular font. This would avoid secondary licensing issues that could go with using a Typeface from a Forge. The graphic was created in Inkscape from scratch Is ther any licensing issue using a Open license font? Was there any license issue in the past to use a closed source license, if so where is this clearance? Is there an advantage of having our own proprietary font (developed in-house). just using inkscape drawing tools with out recourse to using fonts even as a guide. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations Do they need to reflect the same attitudes as the one shown on the wiki? global open transparent accessible clean strong...? Do we want to be more web-enabled, cloud, feather, social? (this from other conversations about making OO more social) Finally is there a template of proposals like: - font - visual element - logo - symbol - Application logo - Module logo (writer, calc, impress...) - Mime-logo (odt, ods, odp, odg..) - Design guidelines Cheers GL -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
KG03 - see comments inline On Oct 24, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo as a whole. So far Nobody wants a proprietary fonts. So this logo is out. Now the issue is if there is any problem using an OpenType License font. done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). We have two separate issues here: 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/ or anyway under SVN. Most logos are variation of the first one. We can generate a whole new set for 4.0, or we can even go back to the pre-Oracle OpenOffice brand refresh and get the OpenOffice with the gulls. The Orb was never part of the logo, it was label a 'symbol' to be used in a different context of the logo, just like the wireframe gulls was for 2.4. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. We need a framework to make decisions lazy conscensus, voting schemes, etc. But it seems there is a generalized knowledge that this is not only the logo but Application Icons, Mime Icons, and Module icons. Keeping a fresh logo with a very dated iconset is just not a good practice, specially for a 4.0 release. Regards, Andrea. Should this be taken to marketing list? Is really a non-coding topic and traditionally was handled by the art Project which was a subproject of marketing. Most of the visual identity and design need to be upstreamed to marketing to develop marketing kits. KG03 - our branding is tightly bound to visual elements (gui) in tools. Let's keep this activity with UX in design and dev discussions. -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
KG04 - see comments inline. On Oct 24, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On 10/24/12, Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Graham Lauder wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/download/**attachments/27834483/** ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). The SVG was done by Alexandro from Michael's bitmap IIRC. Michael's was never official, it was just the one that happened to be available. There was never any consensus that Michael's was going to be anything other than a stop-gap for a first release from the ApacheOO podling. Going forward there needs to be proposals and discussion and a new branding that reflects the New OpenOffice. KG01 - agreed, lets start exploring design directions. I'll share my designs shortly. On training this week, just need some time at home office :) I've put up a graphical text first proposal on the wiki to explore the concept of a purely Graphical logo that doesn't use a particular font. This would avoid secondary licensing issues that could go with using a Typeface from a Forge. The graphic was created in Inkscape from scratch Is ther any licensing issue using a Open license font? Was there any license issue in the past to use a closed source license, if so where is this clearance? Is there an advantage of having our own proprietary font (developed in-house). just using inkscape drawing tools with out recourse to using fonts even as a guide. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations Do they need to reflect the same attitudes as the one shown on the wiki? global open transparent accessible clean strong...? KG04 - Hopefully. We need a unified voice. These attributes represent criteria for success. Do we want to be more web-enabled, cloud, feather, social? (this from other conversations about making OO more social) KG04 - when we are actually social and in the cloud. Then yes. KG04 - Re: feather, I will post a mockup as an example. Finally is there a template of proposals like: - font - visual element - logo - symbol - Application logo - Module logo (writer, calc, impress...) - Mime-logo (odt, ods, odp, odg..) - Design guidelines KG01 - when I post my design explorations, I will create a template. These items are part of the graphic inventory. Cheers GL -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/24/12, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: KG03 - see comments inline On Oct 24, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo as a whole. So far Nobody wants a proprietary fonts. So this logo is out. Now the issue is if there is any problem using an OpenType License font. done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). We have two separate issues here: 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/ or anyway under SVN. Most logos are variation of the first one. We can generate a whole new set for 4.0, or we can even go back to the pre-Oracle OpenOffice brand refresh and get the OpenOffice with the gulls. The Orb was never part of the logo, it was label a 'symbol' to be used in a different context of the logo, just like the wireframe gulls was for 2.4. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. We need a framework to make decisions lazy conscensus, voting schemes, etc. But it seems there is a generalized knowledge that this is not only the logo but Application Icons, Mime Icons, and Module icons. Keeping a fresh logo with a very dated iconset is just not a good practice, specially for a 4.0 release. Regards, Andrea. Should this be taken to marketing list? Is really a non-coding topic and traditionally was handled by the art Project which was a subproject of marketing. Most of the visual identity and design need to be upstreamed to marketing to develop marketing kits. KG03 - our branding is tightly bound to visual elements (gui) in tools. Let's keep this activity with UX in design and dev discussions. Not really, actually if you look at UX between 2.4 and 3.0 the tool visual element never changed, except for icons, but wee are not discussing about creating a new set of icons, or are we? -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
KG05 - see comments inline On Oct 24, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On 10/24/12, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: KG03 - see comments inline On Oct 24, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo as a whole. So far Nobody wants a proprietary fonts. So this logo is out. Now the issue is if there is any problem using an OpenType License font. done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). We have two separate issues here: 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/ or anyway under SVN. Most logos are variation of the first one. We can generate a whole new set for 4.0, or we can even go back to the pre-Oracle OpenOffice brand refresh and get the OpenOffice with the gulls. The Orb was never part of the logo, it was label a 'symbol' to be used in a different context of the logo, just like the wireframe gulls was for 2.4. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. We need a framework to make decisions lazy conscensus, voting schemes, etc. But it seems there is a generalized knowledge that this is not only the logo but Application Icons, Mime Icons, and Module icons. Keeping a fresh logo with a very dated iconset is just not a good practice, specially for a 4.0 release. Regards, Andrea. Should this be taken to marketing list? Is really a non-coding topic and traditionally was handled by the art Project which was a subproject of marketing. Most of the visual identity and design need to be upstreamed to marketing to develop marketing kits. KG03 - our branding is tightly bound to visual elements (gui) in tools. Let's keep this activity with UX in design and dev discussions. Not really, actually if you look at UX between 2.4 and 3.0 the tool visual element never changed, except for icons, but wee are not discussing about creating a new set of icons, or are we? KG05 - I'm interested in exploring a broader rebrand, including app icons. Again, I have some design concepts to share. The styling would extend into other elements under consideration, such as start page updates. I'll post to ux wiki. -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
2012/10/24 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo Nobody made Michael Acevedo the official artist, but a mailing list vote approved his logo as the Apache OpenOffice logo for the 3.4.x series (at that time, we believed that the version after 3.4.x would be 4.x). So, again: for 3.4 and all official communication in 3.4 the reference logo is that one, and not something that is 95% similar to it or that tweaks colors/fonts. We must be consistent. This is the reason why we cannot use your SVG version now. But it is understood, as Graham wrote, that this is a temporary solution. For future releases we are free to adopt any new logo, having a similarity to the current one anywhere between 0% and 100%, and since we are not under pressure at the moment we can explore possibilities for a full rebranding: logo, site, palette, icons... If we go for a full rebranding, it is good to make it coincident with the 4.0 release since it would be easier to communicate and less suspicious to users. +1. 4.0 is the time for a full rebranding, not before. Of course we need to start with this sooner than later, but IMO it is not urgent. Regards Ricardo Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Thursday, October 25, 2012, RGB ES wrote: 2012/10/24 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org javascript:; Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/23/12, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly Who made Michael Acevedo the offical artist of AOO? If we are going to have a 'new' logo that automatically disqualify using MA logo Nobody made Michael Acevedo the official artist, but a mailing list vote approved his logo as the Apache OpenOffice logo for the 3.4.x series (at that time, we believed that the version after 3.4.x would be 4.x). So, again: for 3.4 and all official communication in 3.4 the reference logo is that one, and not something that is 95% similar to it or that tweaks colors/fonts. We must be consistent. This is the reason why we cannot use your SVG version now. But it is understood, as Graham wrote, that this is a temporary solution. For future releases we are free to adopt any new logo, having a similarity to the current one anywhere between 0% and 100%, and since we are not under pressure at the moment we can explore possibilities for a full rebranding: logo, site, palette, icons... If we go for a full rebranding, it is good to make it coincident with the 4.0 release since it would be easier to communicate and less suspicious to users. +1. 4.0 is the time for a full rebranding, not before. Of course we need to start with this sooner than later, but IMO it is not urgent. Regards Ricardo KG01 - Agreed, this is my view as well. For now, we need to update some graphics and remove the incubation reference. while these graphics include the logo, we don't need to update the logo in those graphics. Moving forward, we are free to explore some design alternatives for rebranding which could be consumed in an AOO 4.0 release. In the short term we should update the graphics, and in the mid term, we should start exploring design options for a refresh. As any branding should be associated with the look and feel of the tools, we should ensure the branding design explorations align with any UI design explorations. Regards, Kevin Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). We have two separate issues here: 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/ or anyway under SVN. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: Let's move this insight into the wikis and document. Moving forward, we can prepare a visual identity style guide. I put some material up on the wiki back in January. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Design and https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Style+Guide It is important that we have a fresh pallet and brand image for 4.0 and I don't think that we should necessarily be wedded to the past given that we are in a whole new ballgame, especially as now we have achieved graduation. cheers GL On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: On 10/22/2012 03:42 PM, RGB ES wrote: 2012/10/23 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com javascript:; On 10/22/2012 02:18 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-**hires.jpg http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. svg should be: http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_**Website_v2_copy.svg http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg AFAIK, that svg is just a container for the raster image: it do not contain a vector image. Regards Ricardo hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. However since we are discussing this changes, it would be a good idea to jump to an open font type, like Nimbus or Liberation and have a deadline to reach a conclusion. From other discussions about the icons, there is a bit of a push back on accepting Oracle's impositions like the Orb and the Galaxy themes. Rob's idea is that we actually have a more Visual Design documentation that take advantage of the design elements we currently have, and maybe generate new ones. should we give it a better name? The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/images/300x100_**dj_trans.png http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/ http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea. -- --**--** MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.orgwrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/download/**attachments/27834483/** ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svghttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). The SVG was done by Alexandro from Michael's bitmap IIRC. Michael's was never official, it was just the one that happened to be available. There was never any consensus that Michael's was going to be anything other than a stop-gap for a first release from the ApacheOO podling. Going forward there needs to be proposals and discussion and a new branding that reflects the New OpenOffice. We have two separate issues here: that reflects this community 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/or anyway under SVN. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. The new branding should have been discussed when I first brought it up last year. Any logos that are in use now, are stopgaps nothing more. They are simply rehashes of an old brand, we need shake off the Oracle detritus and make our own mark, one that is owned and created by the Apache OpenOffice community. Cheers GL Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Graham Lauder wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.orgjavascript:; wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/download/**attachments/27834483/** ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). The SVG was done by Alexandro from Michael's bitmap IIRC. Michael's was never official, it was just the one that happened to be available. There was never any consensus that Michael's was going to be anything other than a stop-gap for a first release from the ApacheOO podling. Going forward there needs to be proposals and discussion and a new branding that reflects the New OpenOffice. KG01 - agreed, lets start exploring design directions. I'll share my designs shortly. On training this week, just need some time at home office :) We have two separate issues here: that reflects this community 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/ http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/or anyway under SVN. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. The new branding should have been discussed when I first brought it up last year. Any logos that are in use now, are stopgaps nothing more. They are simply rehashes of an old brand, we need shake off the Oracle detritus and make our own mark, one that is owned and created by the Apache OpenOffice community. Cheers GL Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Graham Lauder wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/download/**attachments/27834483/** ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). The SVG was done by Alexandro from Michael's bitmap IIRC. Michael's was never official, it was just the one that happened to be available. There was never any consensus that Michael's was going to be anything other than a stop-gap for a first release from the ApacheOO podling. Going forward there needs to be proposals and discussion and a new branding that reflects the New OpenOffice. KG01 - agreed, lets start exploring design directions. I'll share my designs shortly. On training this week, just need some time at home office :) I like the Flying Page idea you proposed on the wiki, once we have a pallet I'd like to explore that further. I'm working on a graphic text for the logo, I'll post some ideas tonight my time. Cheers GL We have two separate issues here: that reflects this community 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/ http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/or anyway under SVN. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. The new branding should have been discussed when I first brought it up last year. Any logos that are in use now, are stopgaps nothing more. They are simply rehashes of an old brand, we need shake off the Oracle detritus and make our own mark, one that is owned and created by the Apache OpenOffice community. Cheers GL Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/22/2012 11:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk wrote: hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. Exactly. And this means we cannot use Alexandro's SVG since it is not a 100% reproduction of the bitmap by Michael Acevedo (the orb is perfectly done in SVG and it is the only SVG version of the orb we have available, since we never received one from Oracle; but the text has a slightly different formatting). OK. Yes, I realized that and thought if we DID use Alexandro's version, we should regenerate the images based on that. In any case, I will leave what we have in place on http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/. It is not the original svg but can be used to generate additional copies. a longer discussion topis is ensuing I see... We have two separate issues here: 1) Collecting and consolidating all versions of the logo we are using; here a 95% accuracy is not acceptable. These versions should be placed under http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/ or anyway under SVN. 2) Collecting proposals that can be useful as inspiration for a new visual identity; here it is of course acceptable to have variants of the official logos, but these should remain proposals and be placed in the wiki or such, possibly in pages that do not confuse a reader who types OpenOffice logo in a search engine. Regards, Andrea. -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/20/12 5:34 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? I am confused about having the branding all disjointed, OO is used implemented halfway, we use Oracle brand refresh elements just on certain parts. The brand refreshed used this: - Symbols - Logo - Icons - application - modules - filetype There was some big drawback on the monotone look of the filetype, but for some unknown reason there was no implementation on the modules either. Since, we have been keeping Application logos from 3.1, modules logos from 2.4 and filetypes of 2.0. Specifically on the logo, we have 2 versions, one with the gulls and the other with the orb. I am not sure if there is a representation. There is also the issue with the fonts, where the fonts are not open, and we currently don't have a specific vector format logo, between using Nimbus, Liberation or Bitstreams we still dont have a good functional specification. My proposal is: - Get rid of incubating - Normalize the font-face of the logo - Update the modules logo to the latest refresh - Review new filetypes contribution Rather than changing and implementing a new design, work on the proposals to have a consistent look. you seem to have a good overview. Maybe you can create an overview page in the wiki of what we have now (and where it comes from) and a further column where we can list what we want use in the next version. This can help us to get an overview in one single place. And a brief description what the element is and where it is used! And of course we only have to change things that don't fit together in the first place. Everything else can evolve over time. I have to confess that I am a little bit lost to get a complete overview of all the branding relevant things. Juergen
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ ; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea.
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/22/2012 02:18 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. svg should be: http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg should we give it a better name? The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ ; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea. -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
2012/10/23 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com On 10/22/2012 02:18 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-**hires.jpghttp://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. svg should be: http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_**Website_v2_copy.svghttp://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg AFAIK, that svg is just a container for the raster image: it do not contain a vector image. Regards Ricardo should we give it a better name? The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/images/300x100_**dj_trans.pnghttp://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea. -- --**--** MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/22/2012 03:42 PM, RGB ES wrote: 2012/10/23 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com On 10/22/2012 02:18 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-**hires.jpghttp://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. svg should be: http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_**Website_v2_copy.svghttp://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg AFAIK, that svg is just a container for the raster image: it do not contain a vector image. Regards Ricardo hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg should we give it a better name? The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/images/300x100_**dj_trans.pnghttp://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea. -- --**--** MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/22/2012 03:42 PM, RGB ES wrote: 2012/10/23 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com On 10/22/2012 02:18 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-**hires.jpghttp://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. svg should be: http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_**Website_v2_copy.svghttp://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg AFAIK, that svg is just a container for the raster image: it do not contain a vector image. Regards Ricardo hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. However since we are discussing this changes, it would be a good idea to jump to an open font type, like Nimbus or Liberation and have a deadline to reach a conclusion. From other discussions about the icons, there is a bit of a push back on accepting Oracle's impositions like the Orb and the Galaxy themes. Rob's idea is that we actually have a more Visual Design documentation that take advantage of the design elements we currently have, and maybe generate new ones. should we give it a better name? The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/images/300x100_**dj_trans.pnghttp://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea. -- --**--** MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
Let's move this insight into the wikis and document. Moving forward, we can prepare a visual identity style guide. On Tuesday, October 23, 2012, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On 10/22/12, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: On 10/22/2012 03:42 PM, RGB ES wrote: 2012/10/23 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com javascript:; On 10/22/2012 02:18 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 20/10/2012 imacat wrote: I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. I think that this was good as a temporary solution, but that we should delete it now, since it has different colors and we don't want variants (in fonts, colors) of the chosen logo around unless they are clearly marked as proposals. The reference logo is http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-**hires.jpg http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/AOO-logo-hires.jpg and apparently it was supplied as a JPG; PNG would be much better, SVG would be totally better, but the source so far is this one and it was contributed by Michael Acevedo. What we have in SVG and (possibly) PNG was derived from this one. svg should be: http://www.openoffice.org/**images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_**Website_v2_copy.svg http://www.openoffice.org/images/AOO_logos/svg/OOo_Website_v2_copy.svg AFAIK, that svg is just a container for the raster image: it do not contain a vector image. Regards Ricardo hmmm...well, OK. I think I remember something like this now. Should we use Alexandro's new one at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/ApacheOpenOfficeTM.svg AFAIK there was no resolution on the fonts, the discussion ended on asking Michael Acevedo, but he never replied. However since we are discussing this changes, it would be a good idea to jump to an open font type, like Nimbus or Liberation and have a deadline to reach a conclusion. From other discussions about the icons, there is a bit of a push back on accepting Oracle's impositions like the Orb and the Galaxy themes. Rob's idea is that we actually have a more Visual Design documentation that take advantage of the design elements we currently have, and maybe generate new ones. should we give it a better name? The logo at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/images/300x100_**dj_trans.png http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png has different colors and different fonts so I would remove it now that it is no longer used at http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/ http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/; or is it still being used somewhere? Regards, Andrea. -- --**--** MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
2012/10/21 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com KG01 - see comments inline. On Oct 21, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: [snip] But speaking for myself, I'd really like to see a comprehensive proposal, since one criticism of our current state is that we lack a comprehensive approach. Especially for those who are not familiar with this old logo dispute with Oracle, it would be good to put down, in one place (the wiki) a complete proposal. That said I am aware of the horrible time that the Branding Guidelines took to be set in place, almost 6 months after working with Oracle. But is a testimony of how intense and thorough this work most be to take to create Visual Design, and guidelines. KG01 - creating a visual identity spec can be slot of work, and does require a comprehensive approach However, I propose we try and keep it simple and focus on what we need. For example, start with an inventory of what we have, set some goals and go from there. There is an open discussion about MIME type icons on the forum: http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=106t=55270 Regards Ricardo I have some concepts I will share.
Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? -Rob
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? -Rob
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. Regards Ricardo Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? -Rob
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? I am confused about having the branding all disjointed, OO is used implemented halfway, we use Oracle brand refresh elements just on certain parts. The brand refreshed used this: - Symbols - Logo - Icons - application - modules - filetype There was some big drawback on the monotone look of the filetype, but for some unknown reason there was no implementation on the modules either. Since, we have been keeping Application logos from 3.1, modules logos from 2.4 and filetypes of 2.0. Specifically on the logo, we have 2 versions, one with the gulls and the other with the orb. I am not sure if there is a representation. There is also the issue with the fonts, where the fonts are not open, and we currently don't have a specific vector format logo, between using Nimbus, Liberation or Bitstreams we still dont have a good functional specification. My proposal is: - Get rid of incubating - Normalize the font-face of the logo - Update the modules logo to the latest refresh - Review new filetypes contribution Rather than changing and implementing a new design, work on the proposals to have a consistent look. -Rob -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 2012/10/20 22:49, RGB ES said: 2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. I happen to have a 300x100 logo at hand, so I updated it. Feel free to revise it if you feel my uploaded logo is ugly. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? -Rob -- Best regards, imacat ^_*' ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc Woman's Voice News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/ Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:49 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. OK. I changed the openoffice.apache.org website to use the same logo as www.openoffice.org. But I am sympathetic to Alexandro's view that we need across-the-board greater consistency on branding. We'll get there, I think, but it will take time. -Rob Regards Ricardo Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? -Rob
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:49 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. OK. I changed the openoffice.apache.org website to use the same logo as www.openoffice.org. But I am sympathetic to Alexandro's view that we need across-the-board greater consistency on branding. We'll get there, I think, but it will take time. -Rob Regards Ricardo Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) -Rob -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
+1 to consistent branding but I admit I cannot follow the details here it is beyond my scope :-) BUT I trust your suggestions. janI On 20 October 2012 20:21, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:49 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. OK. I changed the openoffice.apache.org website to use the same logo as www.openoffice.org. But I am sympathetic to Alexandro's view that we need across-the-board greater consistency on branding. We'll get there, I think, but it will take time. -Rob Regards Ricardo Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? -Rob
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 2012/10/21 02:49, Alexandro Colorado said: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:49 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png I thought we were talking about the top-left logo, not the favicon. And, why do you choose the writer icon instead of the application icon? The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) -- Best regards, imacat ^_*' ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc Woman's Voice News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/ Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
A legal question in that respect of logo, is it legal if I write on my personal blog that I help AOO and use the logo with a link to openoffice.org? Jan. On 20 October 2012 20:49, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:49 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. OK. I changed the openoffice.apache.org website to use the same logo as www.openoffice.org. But I am sympathetic to Alexandro's view that we need across-the-board greater consistency on branding. We'll get there, I think, but it will take time. -Rob Regards Ricardo Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) -Rob -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On 2012-10-20 12:49 PM Alexandro Colorado wrote: Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png Are you trying to eliminate the use of colour for the file icons again? I thought we had got rid of the colourless icons imposed on the community by Oracle against the community's wishes. Get rid of the blue orb that Oracle imposed on the community by Oracle as part of their corporate branding. The previous logo on openoffice.apache.org was far better than the blue orb on there now. Get rid of the designs that Oracle imposed on OpenOffice.org. The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 Keep colour in the icons There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) They are better than the ones you linked to. -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:03 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.comwrote: A legal question in that respect of logo, is it legal if I write on my personal blog that I help AOO and use the logo with a link to openoffice.org? Jan. Jan-- In my opinion, the short answer is yes...see general trademark use on: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines The guidelines on the use of the Apache feather apply to the Apache OpenOffice logo as well, *and*, it has the tm mark in it. But, do, if you use set it up so it links to either: http://www.openoffice.org/ -- or -- http://openoffice.apache.org Maybe wait a day to do this to see if there are any dissenting opinions to this, though. On 20 October 2012 20:49, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:49 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/20 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com I really like the logo on the openOffice.org site, it is (at least to me) more modern and eye-catching. +1 We should only use 1 logo, that is simpler and for the end-user more understandable. +1 too. OK. I changed the openoffice.apache.org website to use the same logo as www.openoffice.org. But I am sympathetic to Alexandro's view that we need across-the-board greater consistency on branding. We'll get there, I think, but it will take time. -Rob Regards Ricardo Jan. On 20 October 2012 16:28, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: See upper left here: http://openoffice.apache.org The Incubating is integrated into the graphic. The underlying file is here: a PNG with transparent background. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/images/300x100_dj_trans.png What do we want to do here? 1) Edit that graphic to remove Incubating? 2) Use a different graphic? Note that the http://www.openoffice.org/ site uses a different form of the branding. Are we intentionally using two different logos here? Do we want to continue this? Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) -Rob -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-10-20 12:49 PM Alexandro Colorado wrote: Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/** refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_**48x48.pnghttp://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/** refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.**icohttp://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_** icons/ODF_textdocument_**256x256.pnghttp://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png Are you trying to eliminate the use of colour for the file icons again? I thought we had got rid of the colourless icons imposed on the community by Oracle against the community's wishes. I dont see any other work been doine on branding. Not on the wiki nor on the website. Can you point out to a different community-builted work about this? It make better sense to have the ones that Oracle has with the branding it has, thant has a partially implemented work. Get rid of the blue orb that Oracle imposed on the community by Oracle as part of their corporate branding. The previous logo on openoffice.apache.org was far better than the blue orb on there now. Get rid of the designs that Oracle imposed on OpenOffice.org. Orb has many threads already, I wonder where you were then, and wha are you suggesting to do instead. Orb is quite well discussed here. I am not opposed to go back to the old Sun-Impossed OpenOffice.org logo with the gulls and blue and black, and get back the .org. But so far nobody has really pushed this. The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=112141https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 Keep colour in the icons Colors and design are different things, did you open the attachments? They have color on them and they look pretty opting for a circular iconset looks much better than having half (application based icon) circular and (document mime) squared. There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=118820https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) They are better than the ones you linked to. Not really. -- __**___ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-10-20 12:49 PM Alexandro Colorado wrote: Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/** refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_**48x48.pnghttp://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/** refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.**icohttp://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_** icons/ODF_textdocument_**256x256.pnghttp://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png Are you trying to eliminate the use of colour for the file icons again? I thought we had got rid of the colourless icons imposed on the community by Oracle against the community's wishes. I dont see any other work been doine on branding. Not on the wiki nor on the website. Can you point out to a different community-builted work about this? It make better sense to have the ones that Oracle has with the branding it has, thant has a partially implemented work. Well, we had lengthy discussions on branding around the time of the AOO 3.4.0 release. That is when we went with the current website logo. But we said at that time that we'd revisit this all with the next major release. So I think any proposals are welcome. But speaking for myself, I'd really like to see a comprehensive proposal, since one criticism of our current state is that we lack a comprehensive approach. Especially for those who are not familiar with this old logo dispute with Oracle, it would be good to put down, in one place (the wiki) a complete proposal. Or, even if we had the outline/template for a proposal, e.g., any comprehensive branding proposal must define these N elements; 1, 2, 3...N. Then we can ask for proposals and discuss them. Could even have a contest ;-) Get rid of the blue orb that Oracle imposed on the community by Oracle as part of their corporate branding. The previous logo on openoffice.apache.org was far better than the blue orb on there now. Get rid of the designs that Oracle imposed on OpenOffice.org. Orb has many threads already, I wonder where you were then, and wha are you suggesting to do instead. Orb is quite well discussed here. I am not opposed to go back to the old Sun-Impossed OpenOffice.org logo with the gulls and blue and black, and get back the .org. But so far nobody has really pushed this. The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=112141https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 Keep colour in the icons Colors and design are different things, did you open the attachments? They have color on them and they look pretty opting for a circular iconset looks much better than having half (application based icon) circular and (document mime) squared. There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=118820https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not impressed) They are better than the ones you linked to. Not really. -- __**___ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-10-20 12:49 PM Alexandro Colorado wrote: Well most of the artwork is done, is just a matter of doing the commit to the right branch. Linux has png files so they are taken from the site, which also has the .ico and icm for windows and mac. Besides that, I wonder what else would be needed. Example Writer: Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/** refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_**48x48.png http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/pngs/OOo_Writer_48x48.png Windows: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/** refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.**ico http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/refresh_icons/icos/OOo_Writer.ico OSX: Not required Mime-type: http://www.openoffice.org/ui/**VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_** icons/ODF_textdocument_**256x256.png http://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/gifs/Icons/ODF_icons/ODF_textdocument_256x256.png Are you trying to eliminate the use of colour for the file icons again? I thought we had got rid of the colourless icons imposed on the community by Oracle against the community's wishes. I dont see any other work been doine on branding. Not on the wiki nor on the website. Can you point out to a different community-builted work about this? It make better sense to have the ones that Oracle has with the branding it has, thant has a partially implemented work. Well, we had lengthy discussions on branding around the time of the AOO 3.4.0 release. That is when we went with the current website logo. But we said at that time that we'd revisit this all with the next major release. So I think any proposals are welcome. I remember the process, but the discussions AFAIK weren't as lengthy, even less with the application as a whole. I actually think there was more chaos on OOo 2.4 wireframe gull. I remember a lot of designers put a good ammount of proposals and the winner was none of them. This made the community very upset: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/OOo3_Design http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Gallery/OOo3_Splash_Screen Just to mention, Nicu submit a good wealth of splashscreen: http://ooo.nicubunu.ro/splash_gallery/?gallery=ooo Granted the term splashscreen didn't mean brand, or iconset. But speaking for myself, I'd really like to see a comprehensive proposal, since one criticism of our current state is that we lack a comprehensive approach. Especially for those who are not familiar with this old logo dispute with Oracle, it would be good to put down, in one place (the wiki) a complete proposal. That said I am aware of the horrible time that the Branding Guidelines took to be set in place, almost 6 months after working with Oracle. But is a testimony of how intense and thorough this work most be to take to create Visual Design, and guidelines. That is why I am not so into just changing the logo for sakes of it, without the proper specs and documentation behind it. Oracle decision (whether we like it or not) push the idea of white-blue theme with gradients, and have it on a grayscale except for the orb. Having a mixbag of 2.4 and 3.0 just makes it look bad and stalled IMO. Or, even if we had the outline/template for a proposal, e.g., any comprehensive branding proposal must define these N elements; 1, 2, 3...N. Then we can ask for proposals and discuss them. Could even have a contest ;-) Get rid of the blue orb that Oracle imposed on the community by Oracle as part of their corporate branding. The previous logo on openoffice.apache.org was far better than the blue orb on there now. Get rid of the designs that Oracle imposed on OpenOffice.org. Orb has many threads already, I wonder where you were then, and wha are you suggesting to do instead. Orb is quite well discussed here. I am not opposed to go back to the old Sun-Impossed OpenOffice.org logo with the gulls and blue and black, and get back the .org. But so far nobody has really pushed this. The original discussion on the lack of color of OO3 generated different options which were ignored, should we adopt them now? https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=112141 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=112141 Keep colour in the icons Colors and design are different things, did you open the attachments? They have color on them and they look pretty opting for a circular iconset looks much better than having half (application based icon) circular and (document mime) squared. There was some icons donated on issuezzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=118820 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118820 (not
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
[snip] But speaking for myself, I'd really like to see a comprehensive proposal, since one criticism of our current state is that we lack a comprehensive approach. Especially for those who are not familiar with this old logo dispute with Oracle, it would be good to put down, in one place (the wiki) a complete proposal. That said I am aware of the horrible time that the Branding Guidelines took to be set in place, almost 6 months after working with Oracle. But is a testimony of how intense and thorough this work most be to take to create Visual Design, and guidelines. FYI this is some structure to the brand refresh by oracle, it includes a good overview of all the things that need to be modified before starting to work on a new proposal. http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Application_Rebranding_-_Project_Home_Page Creation of a Spec - Startcenter - Usability aspects - lack of color - design language - splashscreen - Icon Themes (Industrial, Crystal, etc) - mh: there some coordination with art teams of kde and gnome is desired for some of the document icons with the icon themes - Other UI Graphics - put on hold, waiting for further input - Default Styles (templates, fonts) - put on hold, wait for more input from Ivan - some relation to User Experience/Improving OOo Default Settingshttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/Improving_OOo_Default_Settings - general definitions of fonts for branding is not in scope for this effort, bedipp: subteam for this, rosana: should be part of the branding guidelines -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Need new logo for openoffice.apache.org
KG01 - see comments inline. On Oct 21, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: [snip] But speaking for myself, I'd really like to see a comprehensive proposal, since one criticism of our current state is that we lack a comprehensive approach. Especially for those who are not familiar with this old logo dispute with Oracle, it would be good to put down, in one place (the wiki) a complete proposal. That said I am aware of the horrible time that the Branding Guidelines took to be set in place, almost 6 months after working with Oracle. But is a testimony of how intense and thorough this work most be to take to create Visual Design, and guidelines. KG01 - creating a visual identity spec can be slot of work, and does require a comprehensive approach However, I propose we try and keep it simple and focus on what we need. For example, start with an inventory of what we have, set some goals and go from there. I have some concepts I will share. FYI this is some structure to the brand refresh by oracle, it includes a good overview of all the things that need to be modified before starting to work on a new proposal. http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Application_Rebranding_-_Project_Home_Page Creation of a Spec - Startcenter - Usability aspects - lack of color - design language - splashscreen - Icon Themes (Industrial, Crystal, etc) - mh: there some coordination with art teams of kde and gnome is desired for some of the document icons with the icon themes - Other UI Graphics - put on hold, waiting for further input - Default Styles (templates, fonts) - put on hold, wait for more input from Ivan - some relation to User Experience/Improving OOo Default Settingshttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/Improving_OOo_Default_Settings - general definitions of fonts for branding is not in scope for this effort, bedipp: subteam for this, rosana: should be part of the branding guidelines -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
