Re: Setting thresholds

I agree this ‘definition’ problem is outside of the scope of this list. But since you misused terms, I reacted. In your example in words: - Observation 'Serum sodium = X’, 'Normal associated and stored Normal range for adult males:: Lower=A, Higher=B - Evaluation 1 'X is abnormal and lower

RE: Setting thresholds

We’re getting into territory that maybe doesn’t belong in the technical list anymore, but anyway. I suspect this may be a disagreement in choice of words. I’m talking about the difference between observational and evaluative statements. The lab result is observational and what I called

Re: Setting thresholds

I agree with Karsten. Diagnosis (in my terms) is a statement as the result of an Evaluation process about the Patient System. Measurement is the result of an Observation process about the Patient System using materials of the Patient System as source. Evaluation is the result of an Evaluation

Re: Setting thresholds

But I do think it is a clinical status, at least similar to a diagnosis. For me it is more like a score for BMI or ACQ (asthma Control Questionnaire). And for that you can also store the value in the observation. -- Regards, Jan-Marc Mobile: +31 6 53785650 www.medrecord.io

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 01:48:40PM +, Bakke, Silje Ljosland wrote: > A doctor making and recording a conclusion that a > measurement of some kind is too high or too low, IS a > diagnosis. Uhm, no. > their conclusion would be recorded as a diagnosis of hyponatremia. While most doctors will

Re: Setting thresholds

Completely agree.. :-) -- Regards, Jan-Marc Mobile: +31 6 53785650 www.medrecord.io ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org

RE: Setting thresholds

You're right, I missed the "have HAD". The correct query would of course be "all patients with an EVALUATION.problem_diagnosis with one of a defined set of codes for ‘hypertension’". A doctor making and recording a conclusion that a measurement of some kind is too high or too low, IS a

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 01:18:03PM +, Bakke, Silje Ljosland wrote: > A query for “all patients that have had high BP according > to the doctor” would the way I see this be a query for “all > patients with an EVALUATION.problem_diagnosis with one of a > defined set of codes for ‘hypertension’

Re: Setting thresholds

Uhhh, no in this case I do not agree... :-) I think we have measurements over time: 2 Oktober 2015 with values 60 and 115. And also the conclusion of the doctor that 60 was too low. 1 september 2016 with values 60 and 115. And also the conclusion of the doctor that everything is just fine Etc...

Re: Setting thresholds

Dear Silje, I agree with you, but also with most of the other comments. The thing is that there is a difference between the desired (optimal) solution ans something the user is able to work with, without spending way too much.. :-). So in fact I choose for your No 1, but I think the desired

RE: Setting thresholds

This sounds like a sensible and pragmatic solution. ☺ A query for “all patients that have had high BP according to the doctor” would the way I see this be a query for “all patients with an EVALUATION.problem_diagnosis with one of a defined set of codes for ‘hypertension’ and no resolution

Re: Setting thresholds

This ended up being quite some discussion.. :-) We choose for the option to show the thresholds in the Graph, and do it handcrafted/hardcoded. So we will not be able to query on the semantics of the data, in this sense: give me all patients that has had high BP according to the doctor. We will

RE: Setting thresholds

Jean-Marc specified that thresholds would need to be able to be "changed afterwards" (I assume after the data was committed to the EHR), which to me implies that their problem was closer to my item 1) below. Regards, Silje -Original Message- From: openEHR-technical

Re: Setting thresholds

Imo Past data including past references are in the EHR. The present is elsewhere as a service in the EHR-system. Gerard Freriks +31 620347088 gf...@luna.nl Kattensingel 20 2801 CA Gouda the Netherlands > On 2 Mar 2018, at 09:47, Diego Boscá wrote: > > Not sure if I

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:55:47AM +, Bakke, Silje Ljosland wrote: > I've hesitated to participate in this discussion, but I think I have a couple > of points to add now, as I think there are two different problems being > discussed here: > > 1. The original problem, which in my

RE: Setting thresholds

I've hesitated to participate in this discussion, but I think I have a couple of points to add now, as I think there are two different problems being discussed here: 1. The original problem, which in my opinion is how and where to store reference ranges for clinical observations such as

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 04:33:32AM -0600, William Archibald wrote: > > The ranges will be different across labs and across types of > > measurement due to "precision available", "reagants used", > > "technology applied", and a variety of other ugly real-world > > factors. Even for the very same

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 11:23:09AM +0100, Karsten Hilbert wrote: > > Not sure if I fully understand/agree. As knowledge advances, past data > > could be seen under a new light (e.g. some medication was given to a set of > > patients and now we know it has a contraindication with another

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 4:27 AM, Karsten Hilbert wrote: > On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:07:24AM +0100, David Moner wrote: > > > You are talking about a future reuse or validation of the data. But what > it > > was discused here is how to define the reference ranges for any

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:07:24AM +0100, David Moner wrote: > You are talking about a future reuse or validation of the data. But what it > was discused here is how to define the reference ranges for any data to > take an action at the moment of data registry. And, as Gerard said, those >

Re: Setting thresholds

Sure thing, see my example :) 2018-03-02 11:23 GMT+01:00 Karsten Hilbert : > On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 09:47:12AM +0100, Diego Boscá wrote: > > > Not sure if I fully understand/agree. As knowledge advances, past data > > could be seen under a new light (e.g. some

Re: Setting thresholds

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 09:47:12AM +0100, Diego Boscá wrote: > Not sure if I fully understand/agree. As knowledge advances, past data > could be seen under a new light (e.g. some medication was given to a set of > patients and now we know it has a contraindication with another medication) > and

Re: Setting thresholds

Coming back to this, I agree that we can end with differing implementations, but probably the challenge is to define the syntax of AQL in a way that no different interpretations appear. Maybe I can propose a simple example (not sure if 100% correct, but you get the idea) /*NAMESPACE*/ ns

Re: Setting thresholds

You are talking about a future reuse or validation of the data. But what it was discused here is how to define the reference ranges for any data to take an action at the moment of data registry. And, as Gerard said, those references must be stored for future interpretation of the data. Thus, I'm

Re: Setting thresholds

Not sure if I fully understand/agree. As knowledge advances, past data could be seen under a new light (e.g. some medication was given to a set of patients and now we know it has a contraindication with another medication) and we could get different results each time we run the query, which is

Re: Setting thresholds

Thomas, yes, agree. But we need more ontologies informing archetypes, classifications and /terminologies about other topics such as defined in the ISO Continuity of Care standard, … Gerard Freriks +31 620347088 gf...@luna.nl Kattensingel 20 2801 CA Gouda the Netherlands > On 1 Mar 2018,