at openehr.org
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
On 15/12/2010 00:57, pablo pazos wrote:
Hi
Thomas,
...
You describe a very big picture and sounds logic, so we'll have
Hi!
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 00:30, Thomas Beale
thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com?wrote:
On 10/12/2010 08:49, Erik Sundvall wrote:
If the already present annotation mechanism in templates is powerful enough
(Do you think it is, Koray,?Pablo and others?)
to be clear, do you mean the
On 20/12/2010 12:05, Erik Sundvall wrote:
Hi!
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 00:30, Thomas Beale
thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
On 10/12/2010 08:49, Erik Sundvall wrote:
If the already present annotation mechanism in templates is powerful enough
(Do you think it is, Koray, Pablo and
: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
Hi All
I sense Thomas is right. If you look at the exam archetypes there is a pattern
of unlimited normal statements. This allows anything to be said but for it to
be classified as normal even if it is text. There is work to do
discussions
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
Hi everyone,
for those interested, my full thesis is available here:
http://www.sourcefusion.nl/thesis/Dissertation-HvdL.pdf
A link on the openEHR website to this PDF is appreciated.
Sorry for not participating
hi Koray
Unknown Indeterminate. (though they overlap)
Generally, this is not really an endoscopy requirement. I've seen it come up
in all sorts of contexts. (for instance, the Australias structured pathology
reports). Even in the case of a list of medications: you can assert
that the patient
On 15/12/2010 00:57, pablo pazos wrote:
Hi
Thomas,
...
You describe a very big picture and sounds logic, so we'll have:
Level 1: archetypes (for model complete data sets about a
concept, general
Of Thilo Schuler
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2010 7:20 p.m.
To: For openEHR technical discussions
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
Hi everybody,
I got permission to publish the MedInfo paper and its successor mentioned below.
You can find it here (last row
On 10/12/2010 08:49, Erik Sundvall wrote:
Hi!
A very interesting discussion, thanks to everybody here! Great with
all references too!
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 16:26, pablo pazos pazospablo at hotmail.com
mailto:pazospablo at hotmail.com wrote:
Maybe if we change the terminology to GUI
Hi Thomas,
Correct me if I'm wrong:
If templates can specialize templates in several generations
of inheritance/specialisation (This is the case, right?), then
we could use the same basic annotation formalism for different
purposes in different layers, only the
Hi everybody,
I got permission to publish the MedInfo paper and its successor mentioned
below.
You can find it here (last row of table):
http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2007+-+Brisbane+Australia
Cheers,
Thilo
After that Helma, her supervisor, Rong and I published a very
Hi Koray, Erik, Pablo, Pariya and other GUI interested
These are very exciting times for me. I have been interested in openEHR GUIs
and GUI generation since the first experiments that the co-authors and I did
prior to publishing the MIE 2006 paper that Koray mentioned. For those still
interested
-technical-boun...@openehr.org] On Behalf Of pablo pazos
Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2010 7:39 a.m.
To: openehr technical
Subject: RE: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
Hi Ian,
If I understand what Thomas said I would suggest that the GUI templates just
reference paths found
Hi!
A very interesting discussion, thanks to everybody here! Great with all
references too!
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 16:26, pablo pazos pazospablo at hotmail.com wrote:
Maybe if we change the terminology to GUI Templates and openEHR Templates,
we will not have these problems.
Or perhaps GUI
Hi Koray,
I agree with Thomas here, Koray, but I take your point about the
separation into a further layer represents added potential development
complexity. I think we should expect tools to handle this in the same
way that a complex development environment like Visual Studio handles
various
On 08/12/2010 14:32, Ian McNicoll wrote:
Hi Koray,
I agree with Thomas here, Koray, but I take your point about the
separation into a further layer represents added potential development
complexity.
well... software engineering history would say otherwise. Where a
concept is needed you have
On 08/12/2010 15:26, pablo pazos wrote:
May be if we change the terminology to GUI Templates and openEHR
Templates, we will not have these problems.
I think the only thing in common of those two type of template is that
they reference a set of archetypes to do something.
*
*
I would
/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 15:41:11 +
From: thomas.be...@oceaninformatics.com
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
On 08/12/2010 15:26, pablo pazos wrote
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
On 08/12/2010 15:26, pablo pazos wrote:
May be if we change the terminology to GUI Templates and openEHR Templates,
we will not have these problems.
I think the only thing in common of those
On 06/12/2010 10:36, Olof Torgersson wrote:
5 dec 2010 kl. 18.04 skrev Thomas Beale:
Returning to the original topic of what should go into a template, I
would say that this statement supports that template should not
contain GUI-directives, but that such information should go into a
On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 11:56 +0100, Olof Torgersson wrote:
In the openEHR case there is a specific domain and also specifications
(archetypes/templates) which you make the task easier than trying to
do it generally
Exactly, we have some researchers here doing exactly that work. I am
Hi Olof,
I agree but I think there are some directives that are actually not
purely GUI directives but which say something meaningful about the
underlying information.
For instance Koray's directive
isCoreConcept (g): This is an abstract concept; but we can say that
Core Concepts are real-world
On 03/12/2010 22:04, David Moner wrote:
Thanks Thomas. I will resume the reasoning that brought us here:
in some cases templates will also be shared together with
archetypes, then, in my opinion, they should not incorporate GUI
related stuff and be only about data constraints.
I would regard
Hi Tom,
On Sun, 2010-12-05 at 12:28 +, Thomas Beale wrote:
The current design of ADL 1.5 is that template ids will be declared in
the data (since they are just like archetype ids) - see
http://www.openehr.org/svn/specification/TRUNK/publishing/architecture/am/knowledge_id_system.pdf
So
2010 2:45 p.m.
*To:* openehr-technical at openehr.org
*Subject:* Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
On 02/12/2010 01:33, Tim Cook wrote:
On Thu, 2010-12-02 at 00:50 +, Thomas Beale wrote:
This is one of the most common uses of templates we are finding.
So
Dear Tim,
Thank you for your response
Could you please provide me with more detail about this?
Would it need manual adjustment of any css/style file or would it be totally
dynamic? Is it based on the templates, archetypes, or both?
I am trying to summarize the answers from different
On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 10:21 +0100, Pariya Kashfi wrote:
Dear Tim,
Thank you for your response
Could you please provide me with more detail about this?
Would it need manual adjustment of any css/style file or would it be
totally dynamic?
Well, you can generate dynamic UIs; but I really
Hi,
From your response, my understanding is that one can generate such a GUI in
OSHIP, but is also needs manual adjustments to reach the ideal GUI design.
I'm not sure if I understand your last phrase.
Do you mean considering design guidelines while generating GUIs?
Best Regards
Pariya
MSc;
On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 10:45 +0100, Pariya Kashfi wrote:
I'm not sure if I understand your last phrase.
Do you mean considering design guidelines while generating GUI
Yes.
-Tim
On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Tim Cook wrote:
On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 10:21 +0100, Pariya Kashfi
Hi Tim,
I do tend to agree with you that GUI generation can be useful as a
startpoint, but that most real-world applications will demand much a
richer GUI that will need subsequent, manual intervention.
There are 2 other areas where auto-GUI generation can be useful. One
is in the area of
://twitter.com/ppazos
From: Ian.McNicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 10:17:57 +
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
To: timothywayne.cook at gmail.com; openehr-technical at openehr.org
Hi Tim,
I do tend to agree with you that GUI
On 03/12/2010 21:01, David Moner wrote:
#3. The templates you use should only restrict data entry. It should
not filter existing data of the same structure. If it does; there goes
interoperability. Along with the entire premise for the use of and
purpose of archetypes.
Interesting... If
Thanks Thomas. I will resume the reasoning that brought us here:
in some cases templates will also be shared together with
archetypes, then, in my opinion, they should not incorporate GUI
related stuff and be only about data constraints.
David
2010/12/3, Thomas Beale thomas.beale at
Hi Tom,
On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 21:48 +, Thomas Beale wrote:
the general idea has always been that data can always be interpreted
by a receiver using just the archetypes declared in the data. I
believe this will continue to be a reliable assumption into the
future.
So this begs the
I definitely agree with this separation into what you call structural and
visualization templates.
It would be really nice if the structural ones became a reality and were
implemented into for instance the
Java reference implementation. These were almost finished a couple of years ago
and seem
On 02/12/2010 01:33, Tim Cook wrote:
On Thu, 2010-12-02 at 00:50 +, Thomas Beale wrote:
This is one of the most common uses of templates we are finding.
So somehow knowing the possible choices somehow affects the actual code
in the field you are querying?
in theory no, but it could
-technical-bounces at openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Beale
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2010 2:45 p.m.
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
Subject: Re: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
On 02/12/2010 01:33, Tim Cook wrote:
On Thu
/in/pablopazosgutierrez
Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 13:24:20 +0100
Subject: GUI-directives/hints again (Was: Developing usable GUIs)
From: erik.sundv...@liu.se
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
CC: lincoln.moura
2010/12/2, Tim Cook
Hmmm,I am very interested in hearing about a use case where these
templates are 'needed' to 'fully interpret' the data.
Thanks,
Tim
Maybe I do not have the knowledge to give a valid clinical example but
it is reasonable to think that constraining an archetype in the way
Hi David,
Thanks for the reply.
On Thu, 2010-12-02 at 22:54 +0100, David Moner wrote:
Maybe I do not have the knowledge to give a valid clinical example but
it is reasonable to think that constraining an archetype in the way a
template does can influence the interpretation of the data.
What
://www.openehr.org/wiki/download/attachments/18284548/new.png
For more information please visit the wiki page:
http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/projects/Developing+usable+GUIs+using+openEHR+implementations
Best Regards
Pariya
MSc; PhD Candidate
Department of Computing ?Science and Engineering
There's also an opensource project called EHRFlex, which is an
archetype-based clinical registry system (EHR) independent of a
particular reference model. It uses clinical archetypes as guidelines
for the automatic generation of web interfaces, oriented to a clinical
use and data introduction.
Thanks Eric,
This is an excellent suggestion. With respect to ADL 1.5, the
operational template is, I think, the key artefact. It is the 'close
to run-time' data definition, and can act as the start point for a
great deal of downstream tooling support. It would be interesting t
know how readily
Hi,
When it comes to templates, what I would like to see is that they are finalized
and become a part of standard implementations such as the Java reference model.
This is something I've been waiting for since I first viewed this list a couple
of years ago.
Then, as a next step one could
Hi Olof,
I agree this is a significant missing piece of the reference model and
I am not sure how close the overall ADL 1.5 spec is to being finalised
but the operational template definition appears to be very stable and
can act as a reference point for coalescing various local template
IMO templates are an implementation specific issue and should not be
part of the reference model. Archetypes that express a concept as a
maximal dataset are sufficient for interoperability. Local templates
are just that; local templates. Certain implementations may share
templates between
I am happy to read this opinion and I do fully agree on this.
This makes it possible to use templates for any purpose desired.
I already had thought of some template enrichments which work with CSS.
Now that there is template parsing software in Java, I am thinking of
further
Yes and no... we used to think that templates would be only local, but
it is now clear that governments want a way to standardise whole
data-sets, which is what an (ADL 1.5) template is - effectively an
archetype that grabs bits of other archetypes and puts them together to
create a specific
Well we are pretty close with ADL 1.5, and I would expect that the Java
project could safely start implementing what is in the current draft of
ADL 1.5 and the Template document. So, hopefully not too many months now.
- thomas
On 01/12/2010 17:19, Olof Torgersson wrote:
Hi,
When it comes
Hi Thomas,
It is not just governments who will want to use templates to define
agreed minimum datasets. At present all decent attempts at
interoperability are essentially project-driven and often quite local
e.g. Diabetes shared care dataset, Palliative care message, Emergency
care summary. The
We had a similar discussion at the EN13606 web page. These are the
conclussions I got.
We should distinguish two types of templates:
- Structural templates (specific use). Artefacts that constrain archetypes
for specific uses or aggregate them in order to build more complex
structures. These are
On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 23:04 +0100, David Moner wrote:
The important here is to distinguish ?specific use? from ?local use?.
In my mind, a specific use is to define a use case where only a part
of the archetypes or several archetypes are used. This is related to
data structures. For example, to
On Thu, 2010-12-02 at 00:50 +, Thomas Beale wrote:
Tim,
if someone designs a template that has say a more limited set of
Snomed or other codes on a field than the original archetypes had,
then querying the data may be enabled with the template at hand, since
it would tell you what
://www.openehr.org/wiki/download/attachments/18284548/new.png
For more information please visit the wiki page:
http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/projects/Developing+usable+GUIs+using+openEHR+implementations
Best Regards
Pariya
MSc; PhD Candidate
Department of Computing Science and Engineering
Chalmers
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