-Original Message-
From: Jay Pipes [mailto:jaypi...@gmail.com]
Sent: 26 September 2014 22:51
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Thoughts on OpenStack Layers and a Big Tent
model
Heh, I just got off the phone with Monty talking about this :) Comments
On 09/26/2014 03:42 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
On Sep 25, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
So I guess I'm saying:
Lets decouple 'what is openstack' from 'what we test together on
every commit'.
It seems that this discussion has actually
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
The three questions are:
1. Which projects are “part of openstack”?
2. Which projects are released as a single unit?
3. Which projects are tested together
That's a good summary, yes. Currently we have a number of horizontal
teams, which must support equally an
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On 09/25/2014 08:42 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
It seems that this discussion has actually illustrated shortcomings in our
answers to 3 separate questions, and people have been throwing out ideas
that attempt to solve all 3. Perhaps we need to
On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:25 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
That said, singling out the test infrastructure (3) and the release
management (2) is a bit unfair to other horizontal efforts, like
Documentation, Translations, or general QA, which also suffer from a
scale issue. The
On 09/18/2014 02:53 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Enjoy.
I enjoyed your post (though I don't agree with
Heh, I just got off the phone with Monty talking about this :) Comments
inline...
On 09/22/2014 03:11 PM, Tim Bell wrote:
The quality designation is really important for the operator
community who are trying to work out what we can give to our end
users.
So, I think it's important to point
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote:
Heh, I just got off the phone with Monty talking about this :) Comments
inline...
On 09/22/2014 03:11 PM, Tim Bell wrote:
The quality designation is really important for the operator
community who are trying to work out
Hi James, thanks for the corrections/explanations. A comment inline (and
a further question) :)
On 09/26/2014 05:35 PM, James Slagle wrote:
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote:
Heh, I just got off the phone with Monty talking about this :) Comments
inline...
On 27 September 2014 09:43, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi James, thanks for the corrections/explanations. A comment inline (and a
further question) :)
Oh, good to know. Sorry, my information about Triple-O's undercloud setup is
clearly outdated. I thought that the undercloud was
Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2014-09-26 14:43:40 -0700:
Hi James, thanks for the corrections/explanations. A comment inline (and
a further question) :)
On 09/26/2014 05:35 PM, James Slagle wrote:
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote:
Heh, I just got
Robert Collins on Friday, September 26, 2014 3:33 PM wrote:
On 27 September 2014 09:43, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi James, thanks for the corrections/explanations. A comment inline
(and a
further question) :)
Oh, good to know. Sorry, my information about Triple-O's undercloud
On 09/24/2014 07:55 PM, Zane Bitter wrote:
On 18/09/14 14:53, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me
edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Thanks Monty, I
On Sep 24, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote:
On 18/09/14 14:53, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
On 25/09/14 15:12, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
On Sep 24, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote:
On 18/09/14 14:53, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough
On 26 September 2014 10:28, Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote:
So it goes without saying that I support the latter part (functionally test
against their real dependencies). I'm not convinced by the idea of not
having an integrated release though. Time-based releases seem to be pretty
On Sep 25, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
So I guess I'm saying:
Lets decouple 'what is openstack' from 'what we test together on
every commit'.
It seems that this discussion has actually illustrated shortcomings in our
answers to 3 separate questions,
I think Joe's idea pretty sums it up, ASF model is definitely worth
following (Mesos is awesome). Non layer #1 projects will still be
shepherded but not that closely coupled to make OpenStack over-bloated.
Incubation projects can't be just dropped.
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:46 AM, Joe Gordon
On 09/18/2014 02:53 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
When I first read Monty's post, my basic reaction was yes,
On 18/09/14 14:53, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Thanks Monty, I think there are some very interesting ideas in
Excerpts from Robert Collins's message of 2014-09-23 21:14:47 -0700:
No one helped me edit this :)
http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/what-poles-for-the-tent/
I hope I haven't zoned out and just channelled someone else here ;)
This sounds like API's are what matters. You did
On 19/09/14 22:37, Monty Taylor wrote:
I think we can do what you're saying and generalize a little bit. What
if we declared programs, as needed, when we think there is a need to
pick a winner. (I think we can all agree that early winner picking is
an unintended but very real side effect of the
On 09/24/2014 02:48 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Robert Collins's message of 2014-09-23 21:14:47 -0700:
No one helped me edit this :)
http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/what-poles-for-the-tent/
I hope I haven't zoned out and just channelled someone else here ;)
This sounds
On 2014-09-24 13:55:57 -0400 (-0400), Zane Bitter wrote:
[...]
* Assumption #2: Yawnoc's Law
Don't bother Googling that, I just made it up. It's the reverse of
Conway's Law:
Infra engineers who design governance structures for OpenStack
are constrained to produce designs that are
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:55 AM, Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote:
On 18/09/14 14:53, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me
edit.
Devananda van der Veen wrote:
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen
devananda@gmail.com wrote:
One of the primary effects of integration, as far as the release
process is concerned, is being
Robert Collins wrote:
On 19 September 2014 22:29, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
...
current Heat team is not really interested in maintaining them. What's
the point of being under the same program then ? And TripleO is not the
only way to deploy OpenStack, but its mere existence
On Sep 23, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Devananda van der Veen wrote:
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen
devananda@gmail.com wrote:
One of the primary effects
On Sep 22, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Devananda van der Veen devananda@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen
devananda@gmail.com wrote:
One of the primary effects of integration,
On 22 September 2014 23:14, Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote:
I am not at all sure we've prevented other flowers blooming -
and I hate the idea that we have done that.
I've certainly sat around at discussions which shut down hard with
somebody making the statement that 'that is
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Devananda van der Veen devananda@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen
Doug Hellmann wrote:
On Sep 23, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Devananda van der Veen wrote:
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com
wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen
devananda@gmail.com wrote:
One
On Sep 23, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
If we are no longer incubating *programs*, which are the teams of people who
we would like to ensure are involved in OpenStack governance, then how do we
make that decision? From a practical standpoint, how do we make a
Devananda van der Veen wrote:
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
One is a technical discussion that has nothing at all to do with governance.
The other is entirely about governance.
If we are no longer incubating *programs*, which are the teams of
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya vishvana...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 23, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
If we are no longer incubating *programs*, which are the teams of people
who we would like to ensure are involved in OpenStack governance,
On 09/23/2014 02:18 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
The main goal of incubation, as we did it in the past cycles, is a
learning period where the new project aligns enough with the existing
ones so that it integrates with them (Horizon shows Sahara dashboard)
and won't break them around release time
On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Devananda van der Veen wrote:
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
One is a technical discussion that has nothing at all to do with
governance. The other is entirely about
No one helped me edit this :)
http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/what-poles-for-the-tent/
I hope I haven't zoned out and just channelled someone else here ;)
-Rob
On 19 September 2014 06:53, Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about
John Dickinson wrote:
I propose that we can get the benefits of Monty's proposal and implement all
of his concrete suggestions (which are fantastic) by slightly adjusting our
usage of the program/project concepts.
I had originally hoped that the program concept would have been a little
Hey
On Thu, 2014-09-18 at 11:53 -0700, Monty Taylor wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Lots of great stuff here, but too much to
Great conversations here.
I'd like to echo Dean Troyer's comment on Suggestion 9, for multi-cloud
span node pooling ,we need standards. It'll make life easier when user
tools could be configured against a limit as well as standard set of rules,
instead of numerous different rules by vendors. It
FWIW, I think this is a great approach to evolving our thinking of the projects
and ecosystem around OpenStack. I’m far too removed these days from the details
of the day-to-day running of the programs and projects to comment on details.
But, I’ve long felt a need to go beyond the simple core +
On Sep 19, 2014, at 10:37 PM, Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com wrote:
On 09/19/2014 03:29 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Monty Taylor wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
On Sep 19, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Monty Taylor wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Hey Monty,
As
On Sep 18, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com wrote:
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Enjoy.
I’ve read through
On 22 Sep 2014, at 20:53, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Monty Taylor wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind
On Sep 22, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Tim Bell tim.b...@cern.ch wrote:
On 22 Sep 2014, at 20:53, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Monty Taylor wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Tim Bell tim.b...@cern.ch wrote:
On 22 Sep 2014, at 20:53, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Monty
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen devananda@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Tim Bell tim.b...@cern.ch wrote:
On 22 Sep 2014, at 20:53, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com
On 19 September 2014 22:29, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
...
current Heat team is not really interested in maintaining them. What's
the point of being under the same program then ? And TripleO is not the
only way to deploy OpenStack, but its mere existence (and name)
prevented
tl;dr: we're not broken, but under stress...changing (outside)
expectations requires changing the expression of the model...while it's
called a 'stack' maybe it's multiple tiered stacks. MultiStack!
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com
wrote:
The point of
On 23 September 2014 10:32, Dean Troyer dtro...@gmail.com wrote:
tl;dr: we're not broken, but under stress...changing (outside) expectations
requires changing the expression of the model...while it's called a 'stack'
maybe it's multiple tiered stacks. MultiStack!
...
This is one reason for
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Doug Hellmann d...@doughellmann.com wrote:
On Sep 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Devananda van der Veen devananda@gmail.com
wrote:
One of the primary effects of integration, as far as the release
process is concerned, is being allowed to co-gate with other
Monty Taylor wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Hey Monty,
As you can imagine, I read that post with great attention. I generally
like the
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete suggestions here.
A couple more:
1. I think we need a better name for Layer #1 that actually represents what
the goal of it is: Infrastructure Services?
2. We need to be be open to having other Layer #1s
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:33 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org
wrote:
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete suggestions here.
A couple more:
1. I think we need a better name for Layer #1 that actually represents
what the goal of it is:
Can someone do a small little Visio or other visual to explain what's being
proposed here? My head sported a small crack at around the 5-6th page...
; ) But seriously, I couldn't understand the proposal. Maybe I'm not the
audience which is fine, just saying, the words got in the way. Sounds like
On Sep 19, 2014, at 5:46 AM, John Griffith john.griff...@solidfire.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:33 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete suggestions here.
A couple more:
1. I think we
On Sep 19, 2014, at 3:33 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote:
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete suggestions here.
A couple more:
1. I think we need a better name for Layer #1 that actually represents what
the goal of it is:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Adam Lawson alaw...@aqorn.com wrote:
Can someone do a small little Visio or other visual to explain what's
being
Sean's blog post included a nice diagram that is Monty's starting point:
https://dague.net/2014/08/26/openstack-as-layers/
AIUI Monty's Layer 1
On Sep 19, 2014, at 10:14 AM, John Dickinson m...@not.mn wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 5:46 AM, John Griffith john.griff...@solidfire.com
wrote:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:33 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org
wrote:
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are
On 09/19/2014 01:15 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 3:33 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org
wrote:
Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete
suggestions here.
A couple more:
1. I think we need a better name for Layer #1
On 09/19/2014 03:29 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Monty Taylor wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Hey Monty,
As you can imagine, I read that
On 09/19/2014 10:14 AM, John Dickinson wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 5:46 AM, John Griffith
john.griff...@solidfire.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:33 AM, Thierry Carrez
thie...@openstack.org wrote: Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete
On 09/19/2014 10:50 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 10:14 AM, John Dickinson m...@not.mn wrote:
On Sep 19, 2014, at 5:46 AM, John Griffith john.griff...@solidfire.com
wrote:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:33 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org
wrote:
Vishvananda
Hey all,
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
http://inaugust.com/post/108
Enjoy.
Monty
___
OpenStack-dev mailing list
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Monty Taylor mord...@inaugust.com wrote:
I've recently been thinking a lot about Sean's Layers stuff. So I wrote
a blog post which Jim Blair and Devananda were kind enough to help me edit.
Thanks for writing that Monty. Sean took a concept meant for
Great writeup. I think there are some great concrete suggestions here.
A couple more:
1. I think we need a better name for Layer #1 that actually represents what the
goal of it is: Infrastructure Services?
2. We need to be be open to having other Layer #1s within the community. We
should allow
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