of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: Orawomen
"manual"?? Details?
-Original Message-From:
Spears, Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday,
January 09, 2003 9:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Orawomen
The public education is s
cc:
Subject:RE: Orawomen (staffing)
The difference between loyalty and competence might come in there...
hiring based mostly job interviews and "first impressions" are poor
predictors of a proper fit (read: ensuring competency in a position)
within organisations.
When
AM
Subject: RE: Orawomen
The
public education is so pathetic... I took the mannual produced by US
scientists I guess commissioned by the Senate
(or
something like that) and used it to teach my daughter to read grade 3 level a
4 years old in 4 months spending only
20
minutes
Title: Message
"manual"?? Details?
-Original Message-From:
Spears, Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday,
January 09, 2003 9:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Orawomen
The
public education is so pathetic... I took the mannual prod
And it keeps getting funnier every time I read it! :D
Rich
> -Original Message-
> From: Farnsworth, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Orawomen
>
>
> I prefer
You all do topgrading, don't you, Alex?
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, B
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Boivin, Patrice J wrote:
> People gravitate toward comfort first and foremost. Why hire someone who
> knows more than you and keeps telling you management is incompetent? Think
> about it. You will have to work with these new hires on a daily basis, life
> is hard enough a
003 3:49 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Orawomen
I
don't like feeding an OT too much, but...
People wonder why I am completely self-taught. I wonder where they were
taught, because the time I spent in primary and secondary school was a
complete and u
-Original Message-From: Viktor
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:04
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Orawomen
Rachel,
I agree with you for the most part and I'm sure so will many
others. There are many people, h
Rachel,
I agree with you for the most part and I'm sure so will many others. There are many people, however, who advocate people skills, personality; attractiveness comes to mind, in the sense of do you like that person, in other words, do you feel positevely when working together. They say that ev
Title: RE: Orawomen
Guess I am lucky I have two boys. I have only embraced the dork thing all my life - always studying, at the library - ya know. However, we all have a wild side. Anyway, I want my kids to just be themselves and learn sooner then me to throw off the yoke of what society
Title: RE: Orawomen
I have worked in IT in private industry and government for the past 15 years. Unfortunately, I have encountered a lot (not all) of men who have great difficulty accepting women in IT. Its hard at times especially when a woman says something and it is denounced or ignored
tpop.com>cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: Orawomen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/08/2003 09:14 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:Re: Orawomen
The real key to this issue is not making it a GS requirement, but in
getting parents off the
ton-Macon, Michigan), I'd
home-school her.
-Original Message-From: Kevin Lange
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:44
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Orawomen
April, I could tell back when I was in 8th grade that the T
Well, I worked in other places where I did 5 times the amount of work I
do now. It can be brutal in different places depending on the boss.
To me its now just like playing.. hard part is getting all the right
people to agree.
Brian
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3
Pleeese let's not bring up either Janet Reno's or John Ashcroft's posterior. The
mental image is way too disturbing.
Jim
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Same from me...I just get so tired of explaining that subtle d
Don't get me wrong. I never said anything about it being harder than any other
way of making a living. They, being kids, just see the early AM calls or
calls on holidays and so on and say "no way." My own father-in-law who worked
for IBM for 25+ years couldn't understand why I would get a call
I personally love being a DBA. I have found my niche.
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:08 PM
> I'm curious. Does everyone here think the IT profession is hard? Does
> everyone think that being a
Agreed.
Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:08 PM
> I'm curious. Does everyone here think the IT profession is hard? Does
> everyone think that being a DBA is h
Title: Was - RE: Orawomen - Steven Hawking
Talking about Steven Hawking ... Happy 61st Birthday to Steven !!
How do I know? Long Live NPR !!
Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any
Title: RE: Orawomen
April,
I could tell back when I was in 8th grade that the Teaching System in Texas was
a joke. I moved from Missouri to Texas that year and went from
a math class where we were doing geometry, trig, and algebra to a math class
where they were teaching the Metric System
Same from me...I just get so tired of explaining that subtle discrimination
is just as bad, if not worse than overt discrimination. If people put the
same importance on the looks of men I wonder if Steven Hawkins would be
taken seriously, or Einstein (a bad hair life).
How many references did we
I am waiting for the day when I have the time, energy and money to go
back to school "just because".
I did well on those stanardized tests because I have a pretty logical
brain and a really good short term memory (it's how I managed to get my
OCP without ever seeing an 8i db or cracking the manual
DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
>
> Recently this list had a discussion of female Oracle DBAs. The consensus was
> that the numbers were increasing, which I view as a good thing. Here is an
> article with industry statistics saying that the number of women in IT is
> decreasing. http://itmanagement.earthwe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/08/2003 09:14 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:Re: Orawomen
The real key to this issue is not making it a GS requirement, but in
getting parents off their butts
I'm curious. Does everyone here think the IT profession is hard? Does
everyone think that being a DBA is harder than say, a teacher, or a sales
clerk, or something else?
I don't understand the attitude. Or maybe I'm just lucky. The IT field is
wide-open for everyobe to find a niche where they
I have been resisting responding to this thread for a number of
reasons including my experiences may be considered outdated (my kids
are through with their degree getting days and mine are even further
back) but there are some things that seem to be coming through that
have changed my mind.
1. The
As long as they aint skinny, looks are good :)
Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors
that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries
will be possible, truth or fiction?
joe
> > very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact
YES!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> very technical, ve
t:Re: Orawomen
The real key to this issue is not making it a GS requirement, but in
getting parents off their butts and being parents. I continually work
with my kids, especially my daughters (ages 17,16,12) to be individuals
and go for what they like and find interesting. Forget the pop
At firms where intelligence is all that matters you can look like a pig
and you'll still be respected. Most people are not that smart and work for
companies where you are judged on looks and personality.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
> > very technical, very detailed, and very ded
Title: RE: Orawomen
Be glad that you aren't in Texas. I DESPISE the
testing system here. I realize that to a great extent it is needed (there
are high school JRs who can't divide 6 by 3 and get an accurate answer) but they
TEACH to the TEKS (or whatever the stupid name is this ye
amilies in
> particular.
>
> Cherie Machler
> Oracle DBA
> Gelco Information Network
>
>
>
>
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
>
> of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> TOUCH.COM>cc:
>
>
I think you would be a perfect role model.
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Now when a
What's amazing to me is that I, with my AD in Data-freaking-Processing, was
making more than twice what my lovely wife was with her Masters in
Communicative Disorders. Just plain wrong. Another reason why she's chosen
not to work in that field anymore. A shame that her talents in the field
are n
I can relate to this. I have two sons and both have told me that based on what
my work life seems like they would never pursue an IT career. Things could
change over time, of course, as the reality of making a living sets in. My
undergraduate and graduate degrees have absolutely nothing to do w
> very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that
> they were both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in math
I'm about to start a flame war here, I just know it.
WHY does it matter to mention the attractiveness of the female DBAs?
When I talk about someone I work with
Ian,
The fact that more girls graduate high school than boys and that many
women earn degrees does not debunk the "girls are not called upon"
statement. I didn't say that happened in all classes, certainly in the
history classes and English classes I took the girls were called on as
much if not mo
Title: RE: Orawomen
I
don't know about you, but the first time I took a logic course it was in
university... It seems to me it would be fun for high school students to
take newspaper or magazine articles (Teen magazine comes to mind) and pull them
apart to show that statement B do
BA
> Gelco Information Network
>
>
>
>
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
> of list ORACLE-L &l
Title: RE: Orawomen
Maybe
so, Dave, but I have seen physics demonstrations that had entire auditoriums of
kids (yes, high school and junior high kids, both girls and boys) in awe.
They did the regular holding-the-fire-extinguisher-while-sitting-on-a-skateboard
demonstration along with
This is all so true... Sounds like my wife must teach at the same school.
It is a regular occurrence for me to photocopy lessons at my place of work
because all of the copiers at the school are broken or are out ink. One
thing that makes me really mad is that the teachers are all restricted to
ord
"Robin Ilardi"
h-wva.com>cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: Orawomen
Title: RE: Orawomen
Lisa,
Nursing is no place for a woman; if you
think DBA'ing is stressful, you ain't seen nothing yet My wife
is an RN and, while it may no be scientific, I attribute our difficulty in
conceiving and miscarriage to job stress working on an understaffed hospi
NIS WILLIAMS
>
> of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> TOUCH.COM>cc:
10 years.
> >
> > Perhaps more women are drawn to database work than IT in general as
> > it
> > tends to be more administrative than say, programming.
> >
> > I'd also have to say that in many cases, being an Oracle DBA can be
> > pretty
> > grueling
Title: RE: Orawomen
I will agree to some extent. But I have TRIED to get my daughter on
the computers, into math and science, interested in anything technology... she
tells me that Computers are geeky (she's 8). She is my militant little
feminist and into sports and precision jump
>Now when a young woman in the computer field is considering
> becoming an Oracle DBA, a quick scan of the bookshelves turns up
> Rachel's name. So hear that Rachel -- you're a role model, so you
must
> write more books!
>
Oh I pity the poor young girl who makes me her role model. Besides,
My wife is a teacher...
Parents by and large don't care much about their children's education. The
public education service is primarily a daycare for working parents. It
varies of course, but when there is a snow storm and schools have to close
for the day, we don't hear "my child will miss out
Network
>
>
>
>
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
>
> of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> TOUCH.COM>cc:
>
> Sent by: Subject: Orawomen
>
>
Title: RE: Orawomen
Having taught IT classes (and taken some lately) at college level... it
amazed me that, in a class of 20 undergrad students, only one was female (that
was in a Database class as well as in one on C programming). I noticed
that we were definite minority in 94 when I was
Rachel, the "girls are not called upon" nonsense is debunked by the graduation rate of
girls vs. boys in high school, and the number of women earning degrees. It is not
unusual to have an extroverted lad dominating a class room; however when at the end
the female members of the class will on a
I have had the pleasure of working with 2 female DBA's at my company. I
have to say they were both the best DBA's the company has had. Both were
very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that they were
both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in mathamatics and had a 4
any cases, being an Oracle DBA can be
> pretty
> grueling for those with families and for women with families in
> particular.
>
> Cherie Machler
> Oracle DBA
> Gelco Information Network
>
>
>
>
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
>
> of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTE
Title: RE: Orawomen
I have
encouraged and pushed science on my daughter and son. My daughter started
college this year and wants to go into the biological sciences. I
periodically have been a guest teacher at our local schools to teach some
physics and am amazed at the lack of interest in
think kind of showing females and males as well practical needs and applications of
structured thinking an analysis (even for houskeeping ...sorry) could be better than
showing them off (like: ought better do smthng else than calculus).
blame the consumer oriented industry and society - analyzin
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
>
> of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> TOUCH.COM>cc:
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
>
> of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> TOUCH.COM>cc:
Title: RE: Orawomen
My youngest is in high school and is the only woman taking mechanic drawing. She is the best in the class. The instructor was berating the boys that a 'girl' was beating them until my daughter told the instructor to keep gender out of it! She also wanted to join
So do I.. and married one... she is a Math major (with Masters) and a CS Diploma.
:>)
- Kirti
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I like geek girls!!
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7
I have found that men are fascinated, not intimidated
by techie girls. We can offer them fashion advice as
well as hardware recommendations.
Saira
--- "Farnsworth, Dave"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I like geek girls!!
>
> Dave
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
ases, being an Oracle DBA can be
> pretty
> grueling for those with families and for women with families in
> particular.
>
> Cherie Machler
> Oracle DBA
> Gelco Information Network
>
>
>
>
> DENNIS WILLIAMS
>
>
Cherie, Rachel - Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
Brian - I think you are correct that kids today get very little
encouragement to study hard subjects like sciences. I find this ironic given
the fact that we have an incredibly technological society. I think this is a
cumulative product of our so
Just asking .. I'm told that the number of "Americans" (by which I mean kids
born in the States) entering technical fields of all types is declining.
Could the decline of the number of women in IT entering IT be a part of that
trend?
For that matter, I wasn't really called on much in school (and g
Title: RE: Orawomen
Well, it's been a while since I was in college (1999) but I always felt singled out in a class. Some teachers, that were as old as the hills, truly felt that women should not be in science and did not hesitate to say so. Other teachers could not keep their eyes o
of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> TOUCH.COM>cc:
>
> Sent by:
Sent by: Subject: Orawomen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think that within the population of women in IT, the number of female
Oracle DBAs is increasing. However, in general, the number of women
entering IT is decreasing. That is, the number of women who are
encouraged to become DBAs or developers or network admins or sys admins
is decreasing.
I've no
DENNIS WILLIAMS
TOUCH.COM>cc:
Sent by: Subject: Orawomen
Recently this list had a discussion of female Oracle DBAs. The consensus was
that the numbers were increasing, which I view as a good thing. Here is an
article with industry statistics saying that the number of women in IT is
decreasing. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/career/article.php/1564501
A
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