What is ACTOBAC?
- Original Message -
From:
Denise Hynd
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 1:40
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breech
article
Dear All
I wonder how we can get the RCOG to make similar
The first time I birthed a baby in the caul
was funny, the woman was on all fours so I was expecting to see the face first.
Out slides this featureless head and my immediate thought was "Oh my God, this
baby has no face! What will I say to the parents!"
Then I laughed at myself and wiped the
We allow and encourage food and drink as desired,
unless specific instructions from obstetrician otherwise (for the high risk ones
who are looking very likely to become NELUSC)
Inductions are treated same as spontaneous
labourers in this regard
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
was not in favour
of it. The potential repercussions are quite horrifying - same as the
'study' into breech births a few years back - how long before all birth becomes
a surgical event we wonder.
Anyone know more about this?
Yours in disbelief
Susan Cudlipp
evenings -
so a Thursday or Friday might be best.
The attendance list is looking more
promising!
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Jude
Douyere
To: Susan Cudlipp
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:26
PM
Subject: Re: meeting
Hi Ya Sue
I just got of the phone from
OOOPs, sorry mid list - this was intended for my
Fragile X support group list - must have hit the wrong button -
apologies!
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: Jude Douyere
Cc: ace graphics
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:10
PM
Subject
Dear all
I have been enjoying this discussion on the
difficulties faced trying to provide women-centred care in hospital
settings.
While I agree that there are many problems with
'differences of opinion' regardingstyles of care, I have found that
theone of thebiggest causes of intervention
MY mistake Mary - our numbers are only about 70 per
month - as you probably realised!! We used to be around 90 but numbers
have reduced - 700 would indeed not be very 'people friendly'. Must proof
read before hitting send in future
Cheers, Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Mary
Mary I agree totally with this - and say "Roll on
the day"
I guess my only real point is that hospital based
midwives seem often to be perceived as 'collaborating with the enemy' whereas
the truth is that the vast majority are doing the best they can within the
present system.
It would
She also added that the risk of transference of HIV
in breast milk was about 3% as opposed to 50% dying from contaminated
water
Good to see
Sue (also an avid ER watcher!)
PS does anyone else remember the dreadful
disastrous birth episode from waaay back when Carter was a mere student under
op talking now, or you will all think I
am a bit potty!!
cheers
jo
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 5:27
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ER
She also added tha
I thought it was the Paul McCartney version of
Mother Nature's Son from the White Album.
It was very beautiful anyway - what a lovely way to
make a birth announcement, loved the music too
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
jayne
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday,
Mother Nature's son. It is from the White
Album and I have not been able to get it out of my head ever since. I had to go
and blow the dust off my ancient copy and play it again, complete with
scratches. Which probably makes me the same age as your mum!
How very special for both you and the
Ditto here - babies weight only has meaning in the
old money!
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
jayne
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:03
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pounds and
ounces!
I have to agree..I learnt metric at school
!
It will be interesting to see what letters are read
out next week - one for and one against is the usual format.
Susan Cudlipp
Swan District Hospital give Childbirth Preparation
classes for their own clients but will usually happily take ladies birthing
elsewhere if they happen to live in the Midland area (depending upon the
fullness of a particular course)
Phone no is 9347 5315 - best to ring on Tues or
Thursday
Must say that was my immediate reaction too
Mary
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Mary
Murphy
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:18
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cervix
position and labour duration
Lieve, this sounds like sexual
Dear list
The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are
looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a
C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered.
Does anyone have some previous class formats that
may have worked well that they would be happy
Hi Julie
If it is joined by a blood vessel it is most likely
to be a large succenturiate lobe. Provided this is well clear of the presenting
part it should not cause any problems. These are not uncommon.
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Larissa Inns
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
don't open this - my e-mail protection picked it up
as a virus
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Nicole Christensen
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Incoming
message
Hi Natalie - I cannot open your
Not sure about the woman but the husband was one of
the "Young ones" with Rik Mayall, Nigel Planer and Adrian Edmondson (who
is married to Jennifer Saunders) He played the 'straight'
one.
Onya Saffy for doing it all by yourself - I know
its only a silly show but it was quite good to see
My e-mail protection has now picked up 2 mails sent
to the list as virus's. Please all exercise caution and do not open any
attachments.
Cheers, Sue
Thank you in advance, I have been "off list" for
quite a while due to being very busy! Looking forward to listening in
again now that life is a bit quieter.
Susan Cudlipp
Thank you in advance, I have been "off
list" for quite a while due to being very busy! Looking forward to
listening in again now that life is a bit quieter.
Susan
Cudlipp
t; That is used for anyone with a
previous PPH or a grand multipara. One of the private docs also uses
that for red-headed women.Depending on which doctor is on how long
before declaring 'retained placenta'. HTH!Jo
(RM)Susan Cudlipp wrote:
Thanks for this, an
beautifully put Larissa
- Original Message -
From:
Larissa Inns
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:59
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: question
"I would be very interested to hear from student
midwives on this - what exactly
type in postpartum hamorrhage in the search box,
there is only one selection,click it, then click on the large
policy/directives logo - I found it after a few tries.
Sue Cudlipp
- Original Message -
From:
Sue
Cookson
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent:
Slightly tongue-in-cheek here but I have also
observed that women who are smokers tend to require less pain relief as they
seem very keen to get out of bed and go for their first smoke post birth - by
C/S or otherwise!! It certainly seems to be an incentive for them to get
up and moving.
I agree with Nicole here. Many new parents do feel
uncomfortable handling new babies at first and we offer to help them, or do
whatever they wish, or leave them to it if they are happy. We usually all
follow the same routine (head and hair first) for the sake of continuity, but I
always
Co-incidentally came across an U/S report at work
today with this finding. It stated that it was an anomaly found in approx 1% of
pregnancies,occasionally associated with fetal abnormalities and that
follow up should be offered if clinically indicated.
I have always been aware that U/S of
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Future Birth 2005
We had the pleasure of this forum in Perth
yesterday.
Have to agree that it was an excellent day,
inspiring speakers and a lot of fun. A much needed boost to my depleted
"midwife" energy at the moment!
by physiotherapists and others besides midwives?
Thanks in advance
Susan Cudlipp
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 9/03/05
Dear Donna
It is amazing that FDIU in a hospital planned birth
never seems to bethe subject of an investigation! I have seen
several over the years yet theyseem to only ever bediscussed at
in-house mortality meetings.
I hope all goes well with you, helping a woman
through a stillbirth is
I agree - please let us know your off-list contact for these details, I
would also like to take this to my unit manager
Sue
- Original Message -
From:
Kim Stead
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:58
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery]
Good points and I agree with all aforementioned .
I was one of the team for our (now closed) Family Birth
Centre, and while it was a fabulous service in many ways, it was also badly
thought out, much opposed by the obs(no surprise there) and working
conditions werequite difficult forthe few
I really liked this Mary. It backs up my
experience that the more 'influences' present, the less straightforward the
labour.
Last week I looked after a wonderful woman who knew
what she wanted, and what she was capable of. I had a new student midwife with
me and was enjoying the opportunity
I have to add a 'success' story here.
Last week we had a woman arrive in labour at 38
weeks. she had booked from the start for an elective caesar - no medical reason,
just had heard too many horror stories from relatives and friends and had
decided not to go there!
Hubby was totally into the
our bodies will be handled."
Linda Hes
- Original Message -
From:
susan
cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:54
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A
wonderfully successful vbac birth this morning
Love this thread!
PS Denise - is there a time planned for the rally on May 5th? Need to plan
shift
Sue
- Original Message -
From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Comments??
From MIDWIFERY
Melanie
The Flyer is still not attached - just the image
Sue
- Original Message -
From: Melanie Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; OzMidWif ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au;
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au; rosemary rees [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tim
Rochelle [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Not to worry as Denise posted me one
Sue
- Original Message -
From: Melanie Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Cc: 'susan cudlipp' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Rally flyer (4)
Yes I think it has something
Apologies for coming into this discussion a little late but have been minus
computer and on night duty, however last night I had a situation which
follows this theme.
Primip who I had met 2 nights ago with H/W leak and early/latent labour, OP
position. She had gone home and continued to
AaagH
Missed it - and I had been l;ooking out for this since it was mentioned here
some weeks ago - anyone got the transcript?
Sue
- Original Message -
From: Denise Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:15 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery]
And we are assured that brow presentations cannot
deliver vaginally!
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Tania Smallwood
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, May
Dear List-wives
I was checking out the health reforms website at
work, regarding the proposals for changes to our hospitals here in Perth.
Sorry, I do not have the site address to hand, but there is a section in which
to have your say.
Here is the response I received which I thought
some of
Very timely - I have just had discussion with a
physio who we have recently discovered istelling the women in childbirth
classesthat they should be asking for episiotomies!!! (don't even start
going there - we are well aware of the inappropriateness of physio's doing any
birth teaching, and
Point taken Belinda - sorry if my comments caused offense - good and bad in
all professions, absolutely, just that we have had a few issues of late with
out of date and inappropriate advice being given and I was perhaps a little
over-sensitive. I passed on the info re episiotomies to the
Sounds like you need to remind the 'powers that be'
of the highly successful mid led unit at Ryde and push for the same
scenario. It really is the only sensible solution - Good
luck!!!
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
-
You will be fighting for all of us who believe in
midwifery led care so push hard sisters!
I really hope you get through this, sadly it is
often true that things sometimes need to fall apart before they can be improved,
perhaps this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise - if you are
The ANF did something similar some years ago - the
resulting book was called "From The Heart" and I have a copy which I have
re-visited several times. Many midwifery stories in that one too, as well as
nursing stories, it is a lovely book, and I had submitted a story in the
original
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy
Justine, you wrote:
As to who should do it, yes let the
Drs go for it, it's their domain! If midwives determined what was and
wasn't midwifery then we would have real changein this country
NOW.
That is an interesting point, and raises some
And I'm really dissappointed to see that, once again, one cannot express an
opinion without a reaction such as this.
If offense has been taken, it is on the part of the taker, for none was
intended.
I know that many people are afraid to express themselves in this forum due
to such instant
You have probably already read this one but I thinks Nicky Leap's words of
wisdom re: the role of pain in childbirth to be very inspiring, and they
have given me a better understanding. Was fortunate to hear her speak on
this a few years ago. The role of pain in normal birth and the
Had an interesting chat with a woman in clinic yesterday - wants an epidural
as she is such a wimp - can't even stand stubbing her toe, or going to the
dentist!
I assured her that I hated stubbing a toe too and as far as the dentist was
concerned - give me childbirth any day (had a funny
We ask for signed consent for Konakion and Hep B, verbal for Guthrie -
although we will soon be asking for written for this too I believe. These
are given antenatally so that women have time to read and consider and ask
questions first,
Sue
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is
Many congratulations Jo
Sue
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing
Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From: JoFromOz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:19 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Baby!
Hello
I agree wholeheartedly with Nicole's post. It is
very hard to give a balanced view when one knows that we are working within an
obstetric model and the intervention rates that come with it.
We try hard to instill the ideal of natural birth
but are awareof the risk of setting the women up for
Sounds to me like Doctor Molloy may have
inadvertently helped the cause rather than harmed it. Hoist on his own
petard???
Let's hope so
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Sally-Anne
Seen several, delivered a few, the last one was a
primip with an OP position which converted to a face in 2nd stage (I remember
the long ago tutorials on mechanisms of labour and conversion to face is one
possible outcome of persistent OP) This primip delivered well with just a small
Having just read the other posts on this - after my
reply - I think somepeople are confusing 'mechanical delivery'
(presumably meaning instrumental) with 'mechanisms of labour'. Mechanisms refer
to the nature of the passage of the baby through the pelvis, and were taught
extensively in my
BRILLIANT
Best wishes to all and continued
success
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Maternity Ward Mareeba
Hospital
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, June
We too have a BMI cut off of 35. The reason is that the anaesthetists
regard this as a risk factor should there be a need to anaesthetise - as
Miriam has related the story of one lady quite clearly below.
While I find it very hard to refuse a booking on these grounds, we do have
to follow
Dear list-wives
Have just had a frustrating 'discussion' with one
of our obs. A woman has written a very clear birth plan stating that she wants
no interventions unless absolutely necessary. The 'problem' being that she
is a JW and will not accept a transfusion under any circumstances. The
- Original Message -
From: Susan
Cudlipp
To: midwifery list
Sent:
Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject:
[ozmidwifery] physiological 3rd stage
Dear
philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose
exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be
handled."
Linda Hes
- Original Message -
From: Susan
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] physiological 3rd stage
I agree that blood loss is rarely measured
accurately, and only takes into account initial (labour ward) loss, C/S loss is
rarely even recorded. I did read somewhere that in physiological birth
initial loss may appear heavier but that overall
Mary
I have seen several, notalways from
shoulder dystocia, sometimes from that though, sometimes just a 'difficult'
birth, one not so long ago was from a straight forward birth with no apparent
reason.
I agree that it is not a hugely serious situation
and that the bubs do not suffer
Quite possibly.
I do remember one very nasty shoulder dystocia
wy back, resulting in a very depressed large baby with # clavicles. It was
not a nice birth at all, but I was not really involved in it having come into
the room on the emergency call bell.
I like what Gloria has written -
group a number
of fractured clavicles, where as I'd rarely ever seen them before. They appear
to occur for the 2 docs that don't wait for restitution, but this is just
anecdotal.
CarolFrom: "Susan Cudlipp"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo:
ozmid
Not being a recent student I have no idea what the
examiners are wanting in such situations, but it seems to me that there is no
'correct' way to handle this type of thing. You did what you thought was
appropriate and the examiner obviously had other opinions.
If you have lost marks for this
What a lovely birth - wish more midwives had the opportunity to see natural
twin births, it is rare to see vaginal twin births in hospital these days,
and I cannot imagine most obstetricians waiting patiently for the second
twin to arrive in it's own good time - 5 minutes is the average! I
Surely if this baby is truly stuck in a transverse position at term (and
there has been no mention of gestation) a C/S would be necessary?
Is she a primip or multi? How long has the baby been transverse and has any
attempt been made to encourage it to a more favourable position?
sue
The only
At the risk of sounding stupid, I remember a couple who were both Rh-ve and
yet their baby was Rh+ve.
Now was this a case of 'Father unknown' or a mistake, or is it possible for
this to happen?
Both partners seemed quite sure that the parentage could not be is question
by the way!
I'm also
Tanya wrote:-
I think it is a
good thing that you are considering all your options. Most women just go
along with it blindfolded, without knowing all the discussions about
it.
How true - about this and so many other childbirth
choices!
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of
Brenda wrote:
LOL at you ref to the disruption in running the A/N clinic, that's exactly
how I feel !! As for the storing it in the clinic, God knows what we'd do
with it eh? To quote a Professor of Obstetrics last year "can't have
midwives running about like loose canons, they must be
(With tongue firmly in cheek)
Phoebe (Friends) had vaginal triplets a few years
ago - I was amazed that an American show would have a natural birth let alone a
natural multiple birth. Then Rachel had a vaginal breech too - not
diagnosed til 2nd stage. We had this discussion some time back
This is also advertised in the recent Ace Graphics
book. I read the advert and would love to see it.
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Gloria Lemay
To:
This is so true.
We constantly have to justify our belief in the natural process of birth and
should a mishap happen in midwifery care, the midwife is all but burnt at
the stake.
By contrast, most hospitals have regular mortality meetings to discuss
medical mishaps, these are in house and only
This thread on twin births is most interesting and insightful.
I have been fortunate to atttend twin births several times over the years,
but it never used to be considered the drama that it seems to be nowadays,
and I think this is largely due to ill-advised interference which gives rise
to
ork better as a team for the greater good of the woman, her
baby, and her family.
So far, this has worked very well.
Sally
---Original
Message---
From: Susan Cudlipp
Date: 07/30/05
Hello Julie
I have children with disabilities and this story
has been 'doing the rounds' for many years. Originally penned by Erma Bombeck I
believe.
It is a good one and has brought comfort to many -
I still use it when meeting with parents of newly diagnosed kids. It is
also true of many
Obs are often uncomfortable with noise, or even noiseless but (to their
thinking) unusual behaviour. Today I attended the birth of a lovely multi
who was in 2nd stage for some time but just did not want to push. She was
scared of letting go I think, so I just waited patiently and let her get
At least he was honest and gave her some options
Sue
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing
Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From: Karen Shlegeris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:08 AM
In my training, in UK in '79, the episiotomy rate
was very high. Of my 30 obligatory deliveries, 29 had epis, the 30th being a
multip who delivered too quickly for anyone to push scissors into my
hands. I was only taught how to deliver with one, no effort was made to
teach how to protect
I agree, what a waste of time and money as well as
your other concerns.
We collect a small ammount of cord blood at each
birth. The reason given is so that we have some of baby's blood if s/he
should develop any infection or extreme jaundice, that it might be tested. It is
discarded after a
procedure?
Looking forward to hearing your
reply
Megan
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:39
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Routine
collection and testing of
Can this be sent to the list?
Sue
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing
Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:07 PM
Subject: RE:
Hi Melissa (only just worked out the surname
:-))
Yes, happened today - how sad.
Also today we saw a multi 10 wks post partum with
RPOC post emergency C/S for breech at 36 weeks. This particular lady had vaginal
breech with no.1, I delivered no 2 (SVD), and then, as you say - came into
Couldn't resist adding my bit to this one!
First bub was elective C/S, which hubby found very ho hum, not really a
worry or a turn off, but not very exciting either - his words were it's a
bit like ordering your baby at the department store
2nd bub was VBAC but VERY medicalised- I had so much
safe obstetrics now !
There are only 1 or 2 of us who remember believe it can happen.
SO SAD!
BM
- Original Message -
From: Susan Cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:38 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:
Hi Melissa (only just worked
Ah but they don't think that sex and childbirth are related!!
Thanks for making me smile
Sue
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing
Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent:
-
From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
Ah but they don't think that sex and childbirth are related!!
Thanks for making me smile
Sue
The only thing necessary for the triumph
Is this a genuine message or a virus?
I thought that attachments could not be sent to the
list - please all be cautious and do not open unless it is verified
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
, Miriam (FUSA)
--- Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also
been a midwife long enough
to have seen many breech births - back in the UK,
and delivered a few
myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at
least they were mostly
seen as being
Lynne,
I have wanted to work in Selangour since I heard
you speak at the Future Birth seminar a few years ago - sadly, a move to
Queensland is not on the cards!
I hope your unit goes from strength to strength,
and helps encourage similar units around Australia
Sue
"The only thing necessary
Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who
talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman
friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and
spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and
Good points Mary and Janet. I asked one of of
our obs if they would like to attend the last conference in Perth - they had not
even heard of Michel Odent!
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Sally, it wasn't a disaster. You presented
extremely well. We all know that they will edit hours of filming to show a
few seconds of what they want to portray, however I felt the overriding exposure
was positive - the one obstetrician saying that he had been converted was worth
a lot!
I
Well said indeed!
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Janet
Fraser
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:22
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] me
OK - felt moved to join the voices
(zealots)so here is my 2 cents worth.
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -----
From: Susan
Cudlipp
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 200
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