with
other cases.)
Smylers
awkwardly. Would making it Cis shaped
be any better?
my num @data is Stuff is shaped(4;2);
Smylers
how useful people find it.)
Smylers
explained of
assuming Perl 5 until it encounters one of the constructs such as a bare
Cmy; that persuade it otherwise.
Smylers
Adam Kennedy writes:
perl itself would also appear unable to understand perl source,
instead doing what I would call RIBRIB parsing, Read a bit, run a
bit.
RIBRIB? RABRAB, surely!
Smylers
characters happen to be adjacent to each other in the source, and »
likewise. Otherwise you could have ridiculous things like:
mfoo0
which parses as:
m/foo/ 0
being written as:
mfoo»0
And that's blatantly of no use to anybody.
Smylers
Terminal', but isn't as nice as the
'Vim' digraphs.)
Smylers
it, backsticks for qx, unless elsewhere
declared gone, are still there.
Although Larry did end by saying that qx probably needs to be
completely rethought anyway, so it's quite possible that even though
C`` have been left on the side they don't actually get used when
putting this thing back together.
Smylers
shells.
I've got a sufficient Unix background that I find it awkward to use
Windows, and I completely agree with you. Also, there are many
instances of people using backticks or Cqx when what they meant was
Csystem.
Smylers
Juerd writes:
For oneliners, I think I'd appreciate using -o for that. The module
itself can be Perl::OneLiner. Things the module could do:
* disable the default strict
The C-e flag indicating the one-liner disables Cstrict anyway.
Smylers
a new variable with a name that hasn't been used anywhere
else -- because there was some code relying on that variable _not_ being
defined?
Ouch.
Smylers
who like autoquoting, there's now a different syntax, one
that doesn't interfere with the above syntax at all. You don't have to
use it if you don't want to, and everybody's happy!
Smylers
to the previous
scheme -- I'm sure it'd be received better by those people who are yet
to meet any Perl 6 at all).
Smylers
manner.
So the double-quotes in there are shell-like, though I guess if you
don't have a Unix background that doesn't mean much to you. (Post again
if that's the case -- I have to leave for work now, but I'm sure
somebody here will be able to explain.)
Smylers
Matthew Walton writes:
Pair notation is, as I understand it, when you get
key = value
That can now also be written as:
:keyvalue
or, where value is 1, simply as:
:key
I suspect it was this form that Larry was referring to.
Smylers
of functions seems
minor.
Smylers
beam to the sensor, which triggers the motor,
and all the other items get pulled along too, moving one place along.
Smylers
the one he/she wants to use, but then it turns out you need
to learn all of them so as to read other people's code, and that's worse
than not having them at all. 'MySQL' is riddled with them, and they're
most inconvenient!
Smylers
David Green writes:
I guess we could always use prepend/append, pull/pop.
No! Cpush and Cpop are a well-defined pair, not just in Perl, for
dealing with stacks; we should keep those as they are. (And no
synonyms, before somebody suggests any!)
Smylers
.
Smylers
Larry Wall writes:
As far as I can recall we haven't renamed C.specs to anything else yet.
That sounds like a challenge ...
Smylers
be avoided.
Smylers
would expect being able to
pipe into subscripts at all. Except that you've almost certainly
thought about this more than I have, and you are rather good at this
language design lark -- so I'm also not convinced by my own criticism of
this feature ...
Smylers
that a problem?
Folks want to be able to line stuff up, and to split statements over
multiple lines. This is now possible.
Smylers
for the Perl 5 CFETCH and CRESTORE
subs.
Smylers
.
But this could just be because I don't (yet) grok scans.
Smylers
Markus Laire writes:
On 5/9/06, Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But this could just be because I don't (yet) grok scans.
Here's a simple example:
[+] 1,2,3,4,5
would return scalar 1+2+3+4+5 as a reduction and list (0, 1, 1+2,
1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 1+2+3+4+5) as a scan.
That doesn't help
Gaal Yahas writes:
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 11:23:48AM +0100, Smylers wrote:
So I have the list generated by the scan. And? What do I do with
it? I can't think of any situation in my life where I've been
wanting such a list.
Scans are useful when the intermediate results
Mark A. Biggar writes:
Austin Hastings wrote:
Gaal Yahas wrote:
list [==] 0, 0, 1, 2, 2;
# bool::false?
# (bool::true, bool::true, bool::false, bool::false, bool::false)
(And I'm with Smylers on this one: show me a useful example, please.)
Well the above
this special case outweighs any benefit
it brings.
Smylers
, because they only indicate where _some_ space has to
be, not that it has to be exactly that sort of space.
What about :gappy, to indicate that there have to be gaps in the source
text at the points where there are gaps in the pattern?
Smylers
on this mailing list; it
makes it much harder for people who wish to follow up on what was said
earlier in the thread to provide context for exactly what they're
commenting on.
Smylers
is
probably only confuses the casual reader.
Smylers
over. If we're going to have 5 of the
things in Perl 6 then there needs to be a very clear way of explaining
how to determine which one to use (or at least an explanation that 3 of
the operators are very esoteric and beginners don't need to worry about
them).
Smylers
Yuval Kogman writes:
On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 11:42:24 +0100, Smylers wrote:
Or rather, while I can manage to read an explanation of what one of
these operators does and see how it applies to the variables in the
examples next to it, I am struggling to retain a feeling of _why_ I
would
no verb, a grammatical error.
Smylers
the closing brace:
loop
{
...
}\
while $x;
That still has the keywords and the braces aligned.
Smylers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
s/loop/repeat/ for test-after loops
Yay! That makes things very clear, with different things looking nicely
different.
Smylers
On July 14th Yuval Kogman wrote:
On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 11:42:24 +0100, Smylers wrote:
I'm afraid I still don't get it.
Or rather, while I can manage to read an explanation of what one of
these operators does and see how it applies to the variables in the
examples next to it, I am
David Green writes:
On 8/13/06, Smylers wrote:
Please could the proponets of the various behaviours being discussed
here share a few more concrete examples ...
OK,
Thanks for that. In summary, if I've understood you correctly, it's
that:
=:= two aliases to the same actual variable
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
New Revision: 11504
doc/trunk/design/syn/S02.pod
+C ('foo','bar') . Since parentheses are generally reserved just for
+precedence grouping, they merely autointepolate in list context. Therefore
Typo: autointepolate.
Smylers
properly, not half-heartedly with
an alias.
Smylers
not that bothered either way myself), but just some
points to bear in mind and reasons to be cautious.
Smylers
Randal L. Schwartz writes:
Smylers == Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Smylers No: no aliases. Perl does not have a tradition of these,
except for/foreach. :)
I don't reckon one instance is enough to be labelled a tradition!
(Um ... actually I forgot about that one. But if I had
Larry Wall writes:
Conjecture: We need a corresponding sigil to request captureness. As
Bikeshed: What should that sigil be?
What's * doing these days?
Smylers
: it's _you_ that's forbidding things that are otherwise
legal in your code; you can choose whether to do it or not.
Jonathan's examples were all of _somebody else_ forbidding you from
doing otherwise-legal things; you have this imposed on you without
choice.
Smylers
in your program then
it is lexically scoped and only affects your code, not that of other
files you load in.
C-w does affect all files, but that's one of the reasons why Cuse
warnings is an improvement over C-w, because it lets the author of
each bit of code have control over it.
Smylers
expected to be a
string. Not a good trap to have in the language.
Smylers
Jonathan Lang writes:
Smylers wrote:
Jonathan Lang writes:
Translating this to perl 6, I'm hoping that perl6 is smart enough
to let me say:
s(pattern) { doit() }
Instead of
s(pattern) { { doit() } }
That special case is nasty if you don't know about
Smylers
Trey Harris writes:
In a message dated Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Smylers writes:
Trey Harris writes: T
I remember not so many years ago when there were a lot of modules
floating around that required you to do no strict of various
flavors in order to use them.
Really? How?
I wrote
programming
languages.
Yes, but not from the source of their implementation. (At least, not
from the source of any which don't have a licence explicitly permitting
doing so.)
Smylers
it to work
exactly opposite to how it does.
It doesn't really matter which way is right -- merely having some people
on each side, all naturally deriving what makes sense to them -- shows
that implementing this would cause much confusion.
Smylers
? (Is it even a safe assumption
to make about Perl 5?)
Note further that in infinite precision the arithmetic shift left
maintains the sign ...
Do we expect Perl 6 to be running on infinite-precision systems?
Smylers
it is it any different from the functional version -- labels being
associated with intermediate parts of the calculation?
Smylers
often enough in Perl 5 classes, and I'm
almost certain there are no plans to remove it from Perl 6.
Smylers
. Modification of a Set is more
complex than modification of a Bag, so in that sense the Bag is the
main type.
Is this still the Perl 6 _Language_ group? The one where we consider
what Perl 6 will do, and leave the implementation details to others?
Smylers
TSa writes:
I want to propose the addition of a Bag type
Different from the CBag that's already mentioned in Synopsis 3?
Smylers
Set members identicalmatch if $_ === $x
+Hashany(Hash) hash key intersectionmatch if exists
$_{any(Hash.keys)}
Should that last one have a C$x in the code somewhere?
Smylers
Jonathan Lang writes:
For the record, I think that superdoes should be spelled done_by.
I think it's unlikely that Larry will incorporate any keywords that
contain underscores -- certainly not without at least searching for a
single word that sums up the concept in question.
Smylers
unlikely that the syntax is final if the feature is only being
mooted as might be possible (and the rest of Larry's message wasn't
exactly enthusiastic about the idea).
Smylers
they finally meet it.
Smylers
available as modules. Presumably people who need
this stuff in Perl 5 have already created Cpan modules providing them,
and the same will happen in Perl 6.
Smylers
'
49.5
How would you get the current Perl 5 behaviour of displaying fractional
parts if they exist and not if they don't?
Smylers
Larry Wall writes:
The default / operator is not going to do integer division.
Yay!
This is not negotiable;
Double-yay!
Whether a Num that happens to be an integer prints out with .0 is a
separate issue. My bias is that a Num pretend to be an integer when
it can.
Triple-yay!
Smylers
could be loadable from a module.
I still reckon a single type of division is sufficient in core, with
everything else in modules.
Smylers
TSa writes:
Smylers wrote:
I'd much prefer for introductory Perl books not to have to explain
what Euclidean means.
Yeah, it will not dive into the exact reasons why the floor
definition was chosen, either.
Sure, if we _only_ have floor (or indeed if we _only_ have one of the
others
Carl Mäsak writes:
my $foo;
# ...later in the same scope...
my $foo; # illegal Perl5, legal Perl6
That isn't illegal in Perl 5. It yields the warning:
my variable $foo masks earlier declaration in same scope
but it does work.
Smylers
for a better name.)
Smylers
via a Perl use pragma.
Hmmm, a pragma's a bit heavyweight for this; how about being able to set
this with a special global variable -- that sure sounds handy ...
Smylers
rather
ugly, exactly the sort of awkwardness that Perl 6 is eliminating
elsewhere.
Smylers
Jonathan Scott Duff writes:
On 2/6/07, Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Blair Sutton writes:
David Green wrote:
In some ways, I like not having a [0] index at all: programmers
may be used to counting from zero, but normal humans start with
first, second, third, ... third
? Would you also be able to declare a separate
(presumably read-write) variable, C$temperature in the same scope as
C$-temperature?
Smylers
) {...}
+Those are a bit unwieldy, so you may also use these short forms:
+
+method .( |$capture ) {...}
+method @.[ *@@slices ] {...}
+method %.{ *@@slices } {...}
Did you mean for whats inside the brackets to differ between the long
and short forms for arrays and hashes?
Smylers
to be. And at least some of us are trying to discourage such
things, hoping to deflect them away from taking Larry's time away from
getting finished synthesizing what we already have -- especially in the
case of things which could easily be provided by a module.
Smylers
Jonathan Lang writes:
Smylers wrote:
Richard Hainsworth writes:
When does the specification of perl6 come to an end?
At a guess: when it's implemented.
Many of the recent changes have been made by Larry in response to his
trying to write the grammar, and encountering
that being in a module doesn't (necessarily) mean 'not distributed
with core Perl'.
1. join() aka natural_join():
Remember that Perl already has a Cjoin function, for joining strings.
Smylers
operators exist it looks pretty arbitrary which is
which.
For this esoteric sort of stuff can't we have named operators (short
names if you like, perhaps taken from assembly language), in a module
that can be loaded by those who need them?
Smylers
to the Cif but only be activated if none of
the. Larry's suggestion of using Cfirst for this looks good.
Smylers
into very nested data
structures, whatever) could be tedious. Repetition is certainly poor
style and makes the code more prone to errors being introduced.
Also, it relies on the contents of C@rray not being cleared inside the
loop.
Smylers
why loading a module would be too much of a burden.
In conclusion, I consider functionality like relational-join to
provide considerable conciseness to very common data processing
operations
Are there Cpan modules in existence for doing this kind of thing in Perl
5?
Smylers
on the text
it isn't a recent change; my apologies for not spotting it earlier.
Smylers
are permitted,
rather than literal values.
Smylers
Larry Wall writes:
On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 09:05:32AM +, Smylers wrote:
: So I fear that people will do the same thing in Perl 6. Which,
: initially, will appear to work. But then, some months later,
: somebody upgrades the installed version of a module (or the program
: gets
append to something that isn't there? Would it matter if the
first feed also had a double pointy bracket on it?
Smylers
, many programmers would surely continue to use
Copen for this.
Users being able to trick such programs into opening a directory rather
than a file could be unpleasant.
Smylers
the link is one-way,
and that posting using the Google Groups interface doesn't result in
your mail reaching the list elsewhere.)
Smylers
to open
something but doesn't know wether that thing is a file, a directory, or
a URL? I'm still unpersuaded this is sensible default behaviour.
Smylers
[Apologies for the delay on this; I first tried to send it on April
15th, and only just spotted it failed to get through.]
, the current name is good: it has the convenient mnemonic of being
the name that people object to ...
Smylers
-- and are inspired way of
avoiding surprising people just putting hashes at the beginning of all
their lines of code.
Smylers
are much less likely to be bothered to do.
Smylers
, but in the absence of a good reason it's
expected that they be used).
Smylers
, but is *not* considered Pod by the Perl 6 parser. And I think
that's just fine.
I like it!
Is that a decision yet, or were you just thinking out loud?
Smylers
Mark Overmeer writes:
* Smylers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070616 09:09]:
You're concerned that an aspect of Perl 6 might have too much
freedom? Isn't Perl all about giving users freedom to choose their
own way of doing something?
Why treat documentation as a second-class citizen all
entirely possible that during Perl 6's life somebody, possibly
somebody who at the moment hasn't even heard of Perl 6, will create a
better web module. It would be good if at that point it becomes
straightforward for it to get acceptance and people to adopt it.
Smylers
brian d foy writes:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Smylers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
brian d foy writes:
In article
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Damian
Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No. It's Pod. *Any* line that begins with '=begin' always starts a Pod
block. Always
there is no paragraph
or delimited form of the C=encoding directive (just as there is no
paragraph or delimited form of C=begin).
I was with you right up until the mention of C=encoding; what's that
got to do with anything?
Smylers
Darren Duncan writes:
At 6:37 PM +0100 6/21/07, Smylers wrote:
Web module? This is the first I've heard of it. Where is it being
planned, if not on this list?
It was being discussed on the perl6-users list, last year.
Thanks.
Smylers
reached the code you already know what it's supposed
to be doing) -- but I'm not adamant about continuing with this style.
Smylers
documentation then I can
read, browse, and search that documentation on its website without
needing to upgrade any of my computers.
Smylers
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