Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-06 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, John Jason Jordan wrote:

> LO dropped support for Type 1 fonts - I was unaware of this, but I just
> checked and sure enough, none of my Type 1 fonts can be selected in
> Writer (4.2.8.2 on Xubuntu 14.04). Fortunately I rarely use them any
> more, and they still appear in Scribus.

   Here's another (untested) solution posted in response to my thread on
linuxquestions.org:

"You can switch to the old engine in the menu: Tools > Options > Advanced.
Then click Open Expert Configuration, search for TextLayoutEngine, and
double-click the result ? change it to "old", save and restart LibreOffice."

   Today I'm converting all Type1d and TrueType fonts to OTF using the 2015
version of fontforge.

Rich

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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-05 Thread King Beowulf 
On 08/05/2017 08:40 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2017, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> 
>> Even if your Type 1 fonts have no optional glyphs I would still go with
>> OTF. It is the way of the future.
> 
>Thanks, John. That's good enough for me.
> 
>Years ago I learned a lot about typography, fonts, and document layouts to
> better understand how to effectively use LaTeX. Once I got oriented I left
> things alone since everything worked. Now that LO no longer recognizes the
> typefaces I prefer to use I'll update things.
> 
>Just upgraded fontforge here and will convert them all to OTF by working
> my way through fonts installed ~20 years ago and not touched since. I'm no
> longer sure what fonts are in Speedo, PEX, CID, and other formats.
> 
> Rich
> 

OTF is the way to go. Although Microsoft has registered "OpenType", at
least Adbobe and MS were clear-headed enough to release the
specification: ISO Standard ISO/IEC 14496-22 Open Font Format (2007) and
ISO/IEC 14496-22:2009 (2009).

This whole discussion prompted me to take a look what fonts I've been
dragging forward through every upgrade.  Yikes.  I mostly now use just a
few sets that come with Slackware (dejavu, liberation) with added open
source TTF/OTF such as open sans, LinLibertine and Bitstream Vera.  For
website compatibility, I've also added webcore-fonts which are the set
of fonts shipped with Windows OS.

Two good sources of unencumbered fonts:
https://fonts.google.com/
https://fontlibrary.org/en

If you want to test fonts before using a system wide install, put them into

/home//.fonts/

which is a symlink on most distros to

/home//.config/fontconfig/

Note that this location is on the chopping block, but handy.  Check
/etc/fonts/fonts.conf for directories fontconfig will scan on boot.

And don't forget, if on Slackware, especially,
http://duganchen.ca/writings/slackware/fonts/

how-to for optimizing font rendering on LCDs so they look as good on
screen as printed.  There are 2 patents (MS and Apple) that are included
in freetype but disabled (I think one is now expired).  subpixel
rendering (MS patent) still needs to be added by uncommenting a line and
rebuilding freetype.

I've also fiddled with the old IBM DOS codepage 437 fonts: these were
used for the old IBM PC monochrome video adapters and contained a number
of line drawing characters that were popular with BBS systems.  You can
massage xterm to use CP437 and then telnet into BBS systems and rock
like its the 80's early 90's.  Yes, many BBS systems are still Live!

-Ed

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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-05 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Sat, 5 Aug 2017, John Jason Jordan wrote:

> Even if your Type 1 fonts have no optional glyphs I would still go with
> OTF. It is the way of the future.

   Thanks, John. That's good enough for me.

   Years ago I learned a lot about typography, fonts, and document layouts to
better understand how to effectively use LaTeX. Once I got oriented I left
things alone since everything worked. Now that LO no longer recognizes the
typefaces I prefer to use I'll update things.

   Just upgraded fontforge here and will convert them all to OTF by working
my way through fonts installed ~20 years ago and not touched since. I'm no
longer sure what fonts are in Speedo, PEX, CID, and other formats.

Rich

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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-05 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
Rich Shepard  dijo:

>On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, King Beowulf wrote:
>
>> Altough Rich has resolved this with moving to Calligra (part of KDE),
>
>   Reverted.

This discussion prompted me to search for alternate office suites for
Linux, but after looking at the options LO is the only one that will
use Zotero, essential for academic writing these days. So I will stick
with it in spite of the Type 1 font issue. I don't even know why I
leave them installed, as I never use them anyway.

>> TrueType and Opentype, especially, are the new "hotness", ...
>
>Of these two, might there be a reason to select one over the other? In my
>case the use is on a single platform.

OTF is just a wrapper around either a Type 1 or a TrueType font to make
it cross platform. The real reason is that Adobe realized that the days
of Type 1 fonts were numbered and they would soon have to offer their
font library in another format. At the time the only alternative was
TTF, which meant that Adobe would have to offer all their fonts in two
formats. OTF was the solution. 

In addition, OTF offers some features not available in either Type 1
or TrueType, most notably offering optional glyphs, e.g., if the font
contains true small caps, old style numerals, true fractions, and
ligatures, a program can add a feature where the user can just turn on
the optional glyphs for a selection of text. At the time InDesign was
the only program to offer this feature, but nowadays Scribus can also do
it. No office suite has this ability yet, as far as I know.

Even if your Type 1 fonts have no optional glyphs I would still go with
OTF. It is the way of the future.
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-05 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, King Beowulf wrote:

> Altough Rich has resolved this with moving to Calligra (part of KDE),

   Reverted.

> TrueType and Opentype, especially, are the new "hotness", ...

   Of these two, might there be a reason to select one over the other? In my
case the use is on a single platform.

   I might as well spend the hot part of the day converting everything to
either TTF or OTF.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread King Beowulf 
On 08/04/2017 07:01 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, King Beowulf wrote:
> 
>> Rich didn't say which Type 1 (or missing fonts) he has been using. With
>> F/OSS there is always a good work around.
> 
> Ed,
> 
>Bitstream Amerigo is my standard word processor/spreadsheet body text
> font; Baker Signet is for my company logotype, and URW Palatino is the
> default body text font in LaTeX.
> 
Bitstream Amerigo and Baker Signet are available as TTF and OTF, but $$.
 URW Palatino was released as URW Palladio L for the ghostscript
project, but they only toss in the Type 1 version.  Same for Latex.

Here are other option of fonts based on URW Palladio L (some the whole
URW family):
http://freecode.com/projects/urwvn/
(adds vietnamese...)

Here is a set of URW Palladio clones, TeX Gyre Pagella:
https://ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/tex-gyre/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre


>> 1.  You can use fontforge to convert font formats. For example:
>> https://fontforge.github.io/faq.html#outline-conversion
> 
>Now that's REALLY good to know. I've too many formats so converting some
> to TTF or OTF would make life simpler.
> 
>Thanks for the lesson.
> 
> Rich

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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 19:35:34 -0700
King Beowulf  dijo:

>On 08/04/2017 07:02 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:14:03 -0700
>> King Beowulf  dijo:
>> 
>>> Slightly OT, but when I am stuck having to use a Windows box
>>> somewhere, I carry a FAT32 USB thumb drive with portable versions
>>> of F/OSS apps and utilities:
>>> https://portableapps.com/
>>> Reputable site that has been around for a long time.  Good stuff.
>> 
>> It sounds very useful. Can you get these apps to run on a computer in
>> the library or a classroom at PSU? 
>
>They will run on any MS Windows box that doesn't have the USB port
>locked.  All the app data ad files stay on the USB drive and so nothing
>ever touches the hard drive.

I am sure you are right that nothing touches the hard drive. But when I
run a program that is installed on a PSU computer I can save the files
I create in my student H drive. The USB ports are not locked in the
sense that I can open a file from a USB drive in one of the programs
installed on the computer. But I doubt that PSU allows other
not-installed-by-PSU programs to write to even the student's H drive.
In fact, I would imagine that running programs from a USB drive is
summarily blocked. How PSU can do that is beyond my ken, but I bet that
somehow they do. I leave it to those more familiar with security on
such systems to explain further or to point out why I am wrong. 

I am not attending PSU at this time or I would do an experiment myself.
However, I know there are others here who might oblige. 
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread King Beowulf 
On 08/04/2017 07:02 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:14:03 -0700
> King Beowulf  dijo:
> 
>> Slightly OT, but when I am stuck having to use a Windows box somewhere,
>> I carry a FAT32 USB thumb drive with portable versions of F/OSS apps
>> and utilities:
>> https://portableapps.com/
>> Reputable site that has been around for a long time.  Good stuff.
> 
> It sounds very useful. Can you get these apps to run on a computer in
> the library or a classroom at PSU? 

They will run on any MS Windows box that doesn't have the USB port
locked.  All the app data ad files stay on the USB drive and so nothing
ever touches the hard drive.

-Ed


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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, King Beowulf wrote:

> Rich didn't say which Type 1 (or missing fonts) he has been using. With
> F/OSS there is always a good work around.

Ed,

   Bitstream Amerigo is my standard word processor/spreadsheet body text
font; Baker Signet is for my company logotype, and URW Palatino is the
default body text font in LaTeX.

> 1.  You can use fontforge to convert font formats. For example:
> https://fontforge.github.io/faq.html#outline-conversion

   Now that's REALLY good to know. I've too many formats so converting some
to TTF or OTF would make life simpler.

   Thanks for the lesson.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:14:03 -0700
King Beowulf  dijo:

>Slightly OT, but when I am stuck having to use a Windows box somewhere,
>I carry a FAT32 USB thumb drive with portable versions of F/OSS apps
>and utilities:
>https://portableapps.com/
>Reputable site that has been around for a long time.  Good stuff.

It sounds very useful. Can you get these apps to run on a computer in
the library or a classroom at PSU? 
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, John Jason Jordan wrote:

> Someone in the room said 'just double-click on the .odt file.' I did so at
> it opened flawlessly in Word. My point is that instead of sending a
> Windows / MS Office user a .doc or .docx file, just send them the native
> .odt file with a note that it can be opened in Word.

John,

   That's really good to know. Thanks. I can picture confused users who'd
have difficulty following those instructions. :-)

   Wonder if this works with the latest versions of Word, includig the Saas
'cloud' version. Guess I'll find out. And, just for the heck of it I'll see
if Calligra now exports to .doc or .docx.

Carpe weekend,

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread King Beowulf 
On 08/04/2017 05:51 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
> Rich Shepard  dijo:
> 
>> I think I've found a solution: KDE's office suite called 'calligra.' It,
>> too, has more than I'd ever use and has a cluttered display (at least
>> in the 'Sheet' tool), but it uses the .ods/.odt format so I assume it
>> will import/export M$ Office documents, too. And, it's part of the
>> Slackware distribution, too.
>>
>>   And, ... (pay attention, John) it recognizes all installed fonts!!
>>
>>   So, I'll get used to running calligra and remove LO.
> 
> My understanding is that Calligra can read MS Office documents but not
> write to them.
> 

LO has the benefit of being able to r/w MS Word docs directly, both
older .doc and newer .docx.  docx is MS version of ODF (open document
format).  Newer MS Word can read ODF natively.

> On the other hand a few years ago I was at PSU and needed to open an
> .odt document that I had on a thumb drive. Unfortunately, PSU stopped
> putting OO/LO on their computers some time ago, so I assumed that I was
> stuck. 

Slightly OT, but when I am stuck having to use a Windows box somewhere,
I carry a FAT32 USB thumb drive with portable versions of F/OSS apps and
utilities:
https://portableapps.com/
Reputable site that has been around for a long time.  Good stuff.
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread King Beowulf 
On 08/03/2017 04:39 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
>Just upgraded LO to version 5.4.0 and most of my fonts are no longer
> available to the application. They are all, of course, still in their
> subdirectories in /usr/share/fonts/ but LO-5.0.4 isn't seeing them.
> 
>I've run fc-cache -f -v with no effect.
> 
>Suggestions?
> 
> Rich
>

Altough Rich has resolved this with moving to Calligra (part of KDE),
I'll toss this out for any others.  Rich didn't say which Type 1 (or
missing fonts) he has been using. With F/OSS there is always a good work
around.

TrueType and Opentype, especially, are the new "hotness", in particular
when supporting unicode (utf8 etc). Adobe Type 1 fonts have limitations
and are largely deprecated.  Opentype is especially designed for
cross-platform compatibility: The on screen and printed document will
look the same no matter the Operating System, software or device.

1.  You can use fontforge to convert font formats.  For example:
https://fontforge.github.io/faq.html#outline-conversion

You can also often find that someone has already done this. If you
PURCHASED (!) type 1 font packs from Adobe, you may be able to download
the equivalent TTF or OTF versions:
http://www.adobe.com/products/type/opentype/opentype-T1-faq.html

2.  If you are using standard MS Windows fonts, you can install the
webcore-fonts package in your linux distro distribution. Although
desigbed for the screen for website display, they work quite well as

3.  Libreoffice and other office apps allow you to set a font substition
table.  When you import a document the table will be used to replace the
missing font with another, equivalent font from available TTF and OTF
fonts.  It is a bit tedious to set up, but when done, does work well.

-Ed
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
Rich Shepard  dijo:

>I think I've found a solution: KDE's office suite called 'calligra.' It,
>too, has more than I'd ever use and has a cluttered display (at least
>in the 'Sheet' tool), but it uses the .ods/.odt format so I assume it
>will import/export M$ Office documents, too. And, it's part of the
>Slackware distribution, too.
>
>   And, ... (pay attention, John) it recognizes all installed fonts!!
>
>   So, I'll get used to running calligra and remove LO.

My understanding is that Calligra can read MS Office documents but not
write to them.

On the other hand a few years ago I was at PSU and needed to open an
.odt document that I had on a thumb drive. Unfortunately, PSU stopped
putting OO/LO on their computers some time ago, so I assumed that I was
stuck. Someone in the room said 'just double-click on the .odt file.' I
did so at it opened flawlessly in Word. My point is that instead of
sending a Windows / MS Office user a .doc or .docx file, just send them
the native .odt file with a note that it can be opened in Word.
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, John Jason Jordan wrote:

> I wonder if it was because Type 1 technology is owned by Adobe, not open
> source. But then, if memory serves, TrueType was cooked up by Apple and/or
> Microsoft to get around the Type 1 monopoly held by Adobe, so is TT not
> also closed source? And later didn't Adobe and Microsoft collaborate on
> creating OTF?

   There might be tools that convert font files from one foundary's format to
another, but it can be a real hassle. I tried this with TeX fonts years ago
and finally gave up and used the default 'computer modern' ones. Since then,
the LyX devs have added support for many more foundaries and fonts and it's
all really stable.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0 [RESOLVED]

2017-08-04 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, Rich Shepard wrote:

>   My only uses of LO are Writer to import Wurd documents and save them as
> .odt documents (occasionally to translate the other way when I must provide
> a processed word document to a Windows user), and Calc for spreadsheets. I
> don't use any of the other stuff.

   I think I've found a solution: KDE's office suite called 'calligra.' It,
too, has more than I'd ever use and has a cluttered display (at least in the
'Sheet' tool), but it uses the .ods/.odt format so I assume it will
import/export M$ Office documents, too. And, it's part of the Slackware
distribution, too.

   And, ... (pay attention, John) it recognizes all installed fonts!!

   So, I'll get used to running calligra and remove LO.

   Now back to the real world.

Carpe weekend, everyone,

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 13:31:59 -0700
King Beowulf  dijo:

>Are these fonts the old style adobe type 1 or truetype (TTF) or
>opentype (OTF)?  LO dropped support for type 1 and this, I suspect,
>may be the reason.

LO dropped support for Type 1 fonts - I was unaware of this, but I just
checked and sure enough, none of my Type 1 fonts can be selected in
Writer (4.2.8.2 on Xubuntu 14.04). Fortunately I rarely use them any
more, and they still appear in Scribus.

I wonder if it was because Type 1 technology is owned by Adobe, not
open source. But then, if memory serves, TrueType was cooked up by Apple
and/or Microsoft to get around the Type 1 monopoly held by Adobe, so is
TT not also closed source? And later didn't Adobe and Microsoft
collaborate on creating OTF? 

This curiositizes me.
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, King Beowulf wrote:

> Are these fonts the old style adobe type 1 or truetype (TTF) or opentype
> (OTF)? LO dropped support for type 1 and this, I suspect, may be the
> reason.

Ed,

   Your advice, please. Until I get a bunch of paying projects producing a
predictable revenue stream that is the focus of my attention and computers
have to take a back seat. This means I'll keep using this older 32-bit
server/workstation running Slackware-14.1 for a while. I suppose I can
upgrade it to 14.2, but if I hit a glitch (as I did with the 32-bit Dell
Latitude 2100) I'm S.O.L. Can't afford that.

   My only uses of LO are Writer to import Wurd documents and save them as
.odt documents (occasionally to translate the other way when I must provide
a processed word document to a Windows user), and Calc for spreadsheets. I
don't use any of the other stuff.

   I can replace the spreadsheet with gnumeric (and accept its learning
curve), but it requires gtk+3.0 >= 3.8.7, and I have 3.8.2 installed here.
This package is part of the distribution; I can get gtk+3-3.18.9-i586-1 from
the 14.2 source at OSU and build it here. From your experience might I have
any conflicts with existing software that could not be fixed with a soft
link?

   If I can find a replacement word processor that accommodates M$ Word docs
(bi-directionally) and supports the fonts I've used for the past 20 years
I'll just drop all of LO and be done with it. Any suggestions on this one?

TIA,

Rich

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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread Rich Shepard 
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, King Beowulf wrote:

> Are these fonts the old style adobe type 1 or truetype (TTF) or opentype
> (OTF)? LO dropped support for type 1 and this, I suspect, may be the
> reason.

Ed,

   Many Type1 and TTF fonts. In /usr/share/fonts/ are:

100dpi/  ISO8859-2/  PEX/ TrueType/  afms/  encodings/ local/
75dpi/   ISO8859-9/  Speedo/  Type1/ atmfonts/  fonts.cache-1  misc/
CID/ OTF/TTF/ URW/   culmus/fonts.cache-2  util/

   Many fewer OTF fonts than any others.

> Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log to make sure X is still settings font paths

   Yep:

[382928.687] (==) FontPath set to:
 /usr/share/fonts/local,
 /usr/share/fonts/TTF,
 /usr/share/fonts/OTF,
 /usr/share/fonts/Type1,
 /usr/share/fonts/misc,
 /usr/share/fonts/CID,
 /usr/share/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled,
 /usr/share/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled,
 /usr/share/fonts/75dpi,
 /usr/share/fonts/100dpi

> Make sure 'fonts.dir' and 'fonts.dir' exit in usr/share/fonts/*

   There's one in each subdirectory.

> Are you running an old version of fontconfig? I've got 2.11.1

   fontconfig-2.10.93-i486-1 here (Slackware-14.1).

   Suggestions?

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Fonts not visible to upgraded LibreOffice-5.4.0

2017-08-04 Thread King Beowulf 
On 08/03/2017 04:39 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
>Just upgraded LO to version 5.4.0 and most of my fonts are no longer
> available to the application. They are all, of course, still in their
> subdirectories in /usr/share/fonts/ but LO-5.0.4 isn't seeing them.
> 
>I've run fc-cache -f -v with no effect.
> 
>Suggestions?
> 
> Rich

Are these fonts the old style adobe type 1 or truetype (TTF) or opentype
(OTF)?  LO dropped support for type 1 and this, I suspect, may be the
reason.

Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log to make sure X is still settings font paths

Make sure 'fonts.dir' and 'fonts.dir' exit in usr/share/fonts/*

Are you running an old version of fontconfig? I've got 2.11.1

-Ed


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