Re: [PEDA] Board warpage?
Maybe it could be called 'Balanced Copper Coverage' rather then 'Thickness'? Or 'Track Density'? 'Thickness' is rather ambiguous in this case. My goal is always to take off as little Copper as possible. It prevents warping and improves EMC performance. It is good for the environment as well, especially in places where they pour the chemicals directly into the drain. Igor -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 10:54 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? The solution is Balanced Copper Thickness throughout your design. Tom H Using a dummy polygon plane on each layer usually does a fine job, but, don't expect repair de-soldering to be easy with so much copper sinking the heat away from your application point. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Tom Hausherr To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? Harry, I've seen every kind of layer stack-up imaginable. Board warpage is mainly caused by the uneven distribution of Copper Thickness. If you have one plane that is out of order and call out 70um Copper Thickness (2OZ) your board will warp when the heat is applied either through fabrication lamination our plugging your assembled board into a voltage source. The solution is Balanced Copper Thickness throughout your design. Tom H -Original Message- From: Harry Selfridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:28 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? It isn't an odd number of PAIRS that causes problems - it is an odd number of LAYERS. There are some advanced fab techniques that can reliably produce boards with odd number of planes or odd number of signal layers; however, there are very few fabs I would trust to do it. You can sometimes get away with odd number stackups, but it will eventually bite you in the butt. Six layers is a common balanced stackup - provided there are an even number of planes, and even number of signal layers with reasonably distributed copper. At 01:56 AM 7/21/04, you wrote: SNIP Some say that an odd number of layer pairs can cause problems, indeed we had problems with 6 layers at first, though we now use 6 layers to great success. Problems with that were caused by bad process control, not the design (though the manufacturer tried to blame design at the time!!) SNIP _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] was Shortcuts in 99SE ?
-Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:46 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] was Shortcuts in 99SE ? at the risk of beating a dead horse ... i don't recall any mention in this list over the years regarding the file description you can enter in the DDB for a given internal file don't know how i missed this and am finding it very useful has anyone else seen this, use it, don't care about it or whatever ? Dennis I seen it, but I do not use it as I never found any way to print it along with the SCH so I prefer to keep the data which I would have used this field for in the actual SCH. I guess its like the summary information in the properties page of any windows file, right clickpropertiessummary where there is the ability to add information to a file also, but not everyone uses it :-) John * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Board warpage?
I want to thank everybody who took the time to post on this subject. The posts have given me a foundation for making a decision on whether to allow the cards to be heated to remove warpage. Thanks, Michael Robison * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Board warpage?
Igor, I agree, but when it comes to Planes you do not have a choice on Copper Coverage and it's the Plane Layers that will cause the most damage if they have unbalanced copper thickness coupled with unbalanced construction. I agree with your point on Minimal Copper Traces. That's why I do not use the Specctra Batch Autorouter anymore. It seems as though it dumps twice as much copper on the trace layers (and twice the number of vias). I would rather use an Interactive Manual router (and Specctra has one) to reduce trace length and via count. Tom Tom Hausherr PCB Libraries CEO, Director of Technology 858.592.4826 Phone 847.745.0450 Fax E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.PCBLibraries.com http://www.PCBYellowPages.com -Original Message- From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:54 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? Maybe it could be called 'Balanced Copper Coverage' rather then 'Thickness'? Or 'Track Density'? 'Thickness' is rather ambiguous in this case. My goal is always to take off as little Copper as possible. It prevents warping and improves EMC performance. It is good for the environment as well, especially in places where they pour the chemicals directly into the drain. Igor -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 10:54 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? The solution is Balanced Copper Thickness throughout your design. Tom H Using a dummy polygon plane on each layer usually does a fine job, but, don't expect repair de-soldering to be easy with so much copper sinking the heat away from your application point. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Tom Hausherr To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? Harry, I've seen every kind of layer stack-up imaginable. Board warpage is mainly caused by the uneven distribution of Copper Thickness. If you have one plane that is out of order and call out 70um Copper Thickness (2OZ) your board will warp when the heat is applied either through fabrication lamination our plugging your assembled board into a voltage source. The solution is Balanced Copper Thickness throughout your design. Tom H -Original Message- From: Harry Selfridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:28 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Board warpage? It isn't an odd number of PAIRS that causes problems - it is an odd number of LAYERS. There are some advanced fab techniques that can reliably produce boards with odd number of planes or odd number of signal layers; however, there are very few fabs I would trust to do it. You can sometimes get away with odd number stackups, but it will eventually bite you in the butt. Six layers is a common balanced stackup - provided there are an even number of planes, and even number of signal layers with reasonably distributed copper. At 01:56 AM 7/21/04, you wrote: SNIP Some say that an odd number of layer pairs can cause problems, indeed we had problems with 6 layers at first, though we now use 6 layers to great success. Problems with that were caused by bad process control, not the design (though the manufacturer tried to blame design at the time!!) SNIP * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] bug?
OK, Here's an odd one. When I go to set design rules - or Autoroute Setup - in 2004, the parameter field is right on top of and obscured by the descriptive text that should be next to it. For example under Clearance, the numerical field is covered up by the words minimum clearance. Also, the design rules don't get saved with the board, so I have to remember to re enter them each time which is a definite PITA. I don't recall seeing either of these problems in DXP or previous versions. Any ideas? Bob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mouse Driver
Mouse . . . Mouse . . . Did someone say Mouse . . . Steve, I've always had good luck with Logitech drivers (and eliminated almost all (99.999%) of my unexplained crashes), and personally like the feel of their Mice. Many of their newer Mice have many additional buttons, and the nice thing here, even though it doesn't say so on the outside of the package that they come in, all of the buttons are programmable. This means that you can take some of these additional buttons such as the ones mounted on the sides that are stated to be for things like Back and Forward on your internet browser, and reprogram them as PgUp and PgDn, which give you your zoom in and zoom out in Protel 99 SE (yeah, it is not quite like the AutoCad scroll in and scroll out, but it does work quite well none the less). Don't forget that most scroll wheel Mice also have a button built into the scroll wheel which you can also press as well as scroll, and sometimes you can re-define this middle button (scroll button) as either PgUp or PgDn all by itself (I know you can in Logitech Mouseware). Unfortunately, zooming in and out the way that you describe is usually a function of the application software itself, and unfortunately that specific function simply does not exist in Protel 99 SE , and since we never got enough support for SP7 . . . Although . . . Someone mentioned a utility that does something along those lines here in this forum not to long ago, so you might just check the archives . . . While a longshot, you might be able to find that some video card actually incorporates and supports such a function all on it's own simply as a part of the hardware . . . As a final note, such a capability would probably make for an interesting server for someone who likes to diddle around with the SDK and would appreciate the accolades of his (or her) fellow Protel 99 SE users (however it should zoom in or out in very fine steps, and not just emulate pressing PgUp or PgDn 57 times, and of course use my preferred method of centering with each zoom (don't anyone get too upset - that last part really was a joke (see :-) ) ) . . . Take it easy on all that Mousing around . . . Happy 99ing (still seems the best way to go . . . ) . . . JaMi - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:41 AM Subject: [PEDA] Mouse Driver At risk of reopening the mouse wars of yesteryear, I need to ask what's the best driver to install to use a Microsoft Intellipoint (Dell branded) mouse with Protel 99SE. I had a pretty decent setup and should have left well enough alone, but I tried to install a newer mouse with dual scroll wheels etc, and that didn't work out. I can't seem to get back to the configuration I had before using either the v4.1 driver I thought I was using nor the freshly downloaded (from microsoft.com) v5.0 drivers. What I'd really like, and what I thought I was getting when I bought the mouse, was the ability to use the scroll whele for zoom. With the way Protel zooms, that's all I need, and I'd never scroll at all. Just roll the wheel one way to zoom out till the area of interest is in view, move the mouse pointer over there, and roll the wheel the other way to zoom back in. Who needs scroll bars? Steve Hendrix * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mini DIN footprint
We use a circular mini-DIN 9 pin right angle connector in many of our products. As an aside, it is a very robust connector due to the metal cross bar that prevents pins from bending regardless of how hard one tries to insert the plug in the wrong orientation. Anyhow, the pins are supposed to be compatible with lower pin count mini-DINs. That said, electromechanical drawings, footprints, and pin numbering should always be suspect. I have seldom found any of it good. Our pinout agrees with the manufacturer's, shock, and here it is as viewed from the component side (MH = mounting hole): Plug MH MH MH 3 1 2 6 7 4 5 8 9 I hope that this helps. Cheers, Tom DUTTON Phil wrote: I've been caught in the past with mini-DIN data sheets. The data sheet showed numbering for the 'locations' of the pins rather than the pin numbers. Also be careful of the view that they show. This is the numbering that I ended up with for right angle connectors (board edge uppermost) 3 1 2 4 5 6 and 3 1 2 5 6 4 7 8 regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Jason Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 21 July 2004 6:05 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Mini DIN footprint Sounds to me, like many things, each vendor has their own standard ;) Honestly, I've no idea if mini-DIN has a numbering standard (though the name, DIN means Deutsches Insitut f r Normung, a German standards org) What I normally do is use the numbering (or naming) that either makes most sense in my application or matches the chosen vendor for the component. I've found quite often that a seemingly identical component from two manufacturers can me subtly mechanically different. Choose one part from one manufacturer and specify that in the drawing. It would be worse to use the 'standard' in the drawing then have a difference from the supplier, you can bet somebody some time will wire up the plug wrong, following the text on it. j. -Original Message- From: Peder K. Hellegaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 July 2004 06:34 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] Mini DIN footprint Hi everyone. Anybody who knows if there is any official standard pin numbering for the MIN DIN sockets ? I ask due to the fact that I have seen 3 different ways of numbering, from 3 different vendors. Have a nice day Peder * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] bug?
Bob So far this answer worked for me when 2004 started to act funneee. Delete the folder C:\Documents and Settings\yourname\Application Data\Altium. Then start 2004 again. Colby at Tech support at Altium steered me this way. Colby is a great asset to Altium Mike Reagan -Original Message- From: bob stephens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] bug? OK, Here's an odd one. When I go to set design rules - or Autoroute Setup - in 2004, the parameter field is right on top of and obscured by the descriptive text that should be next to it. For example under Clearance, the numerical field is covered up by the words minimum clearance. Also, the design rules don't get saved with the board, so I have to remember to re enter them each time which is a definite PITA. I don't recall seeing either of these problems in DXP or previous versions. Any ideas? Bob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques
Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Hello All, Please feel free to visit www.konekt.com and read my white paper on how to use the Electra Autorouter with Protel 99SE and DXP products. I have been posting for some time now that this router is one of the best products available. I was asked by the ConnectEDA staff to write a paper for all you users that are afraid to try autorouters. I have not accepted any payment for this effort , my only interest is have better design tools available and to open a new dialog for Protel users. Enjoy the article Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] LED Footprints
Roger, There are many different footprints for LEDs. You need to use the one that you plan on mounting. Or make one using the datasheet. Joe - Original Message - From: Roger Pizzatto Nunes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:35 PM Subject: [PEDA] LED Footprints Hi, Which is the footprint name of a normal LED? Which librarie on Protel DXP has this type of footprint? Thank you Roger - Original Message - From: Duane Foster To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Hello All, Please feel free to visit www.konekt.com and read my white paper on how to use the Electra Autorouter with Protel 99SE and DXP products. I have been posting for some time now that this router is one of the best products available. I was asked by the ConnectEDA staff to write a paper for all you users that are afraid to try autorouters. I have not accepted any payment for this effort , my only interest is have better design tools available and to open a new dialog for Protel users. Enjoy the article Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] bug?
Thanks Mike - and Colby. That solved the design rules not being saved problem. Still have the overwritten text issue though. Bob -Original Message- From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:10 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] bug? Bob So far this answer worked for me when 2004 started to act funneee. Delete the folder C:\Documents and Settings\yourname\Application Data\Altium. Then start 2004 again. Colby at Tech support at Altium steered me this way. Colby is a great asset to Altium Mike Reagan -Original Message- From: bob stephens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] bug? OK, Here's an odd one. When I go to set design rules - or Autoroute Setup - in 2004, the parameter field is right on top of and obscured by the descriptive text that should be next to it. For example under Clearance, the numerical field is covered up by the words minimum clearance. Also, the design rules don't get saved with the board, so I have to remember to re enter them each time which is a definite PITA. I don't recall seeing either of these problems in DXP or previous versions. Any ideas? Bob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. HI Duane Before I can give an answer to all of your questionI need to know did you follow my step by step instructions for fanning out? I typically can route any design ( large ones with several thousand components ) in 5 passes. The secret is the routing channels must be kept open. Secondly, what is are you calling the basic do is this the do file Protel generates? (DXP only). I would stay away from assigning directives like any direction this will only complicate things by not steering the router to work for you. Two layer designs work as easily as multilayer as long as you have open channels. That is key. On very populated tight designs I discount the component side as a routing layer because the components are in the way. Electra will route 100 percent, as long as your rules make sense. Take a closer look at your rules and make sure they make sense. ie can a 10 mil line fit inside a 8 mil gap Let me know how I can help. And thanks for reading it. Mike Reagan -Original Message- From: Duane Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:18 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Hello All, Please feel free to visit www.konekt.com and read my white paper on how to use the Electra Autorouter with Protel 99SE and DXP products. I have been posting for some time now that this router is one of the best products available. I was asked by the ConnectEDA staff to write a paper for all you users that are afraid to try autorouters. I have not accepted any payment for this effort , my only interest is have better design tools available and to open a new dialog for Protel users. Enjoy the article Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques
thanks for your help see below for pointed response -Original Message- From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:08 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques HI Duane Before I can give an answer to all of your questionI need to know did you follow my step by step instructions for fanning out? I typically can route any design ( large ones with several thousand components ) in 5 passes. The secret is the routing channels must be kept open. i did not do any fan out.. i tried this on the premise that it is a simple board which 99SE could autoroute.. this board has some 0805s and 14 pin SOICs.. are you recommending that i fan out the SOICs? Secondly, what is are you calling the basic do is this the do file Protel generates? (DXP only). i am referring to a file which was installed by Electra (Basic.do). I would stay away from assigning directives like any direction this will only complicate things by not steering the router to work for you. Two layer designs work as easily as multilayer as long as you have open channels. That is key. On very populated tight designs I discount the component side as a routing layer because the components are in the way. i have components on both sides?! Perhaps it will route if i work on the component layout. But i still would like the router to follow a 12mil track-SMDpad rule and a 14mil via-SMDpad rule. Can you illuminate how to implement these special spacing rules? Electra will route 100 percent, as long as your rules make sense. Take a closer look at your rules and make sure they make sense. ie can a 10 mil line fit inside a 8 mil gap Let me know how I can help. And thanks for reading it. Mike Reagan -Original Message- From: Duane Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:18 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Hello All, Please feel free to visit www.konekt.com and read my white paper on how to use the Electra Autorouter with Protel 99SE and DXP products. I have been posting for some time now that this router is one of the best products available. I was asked by the ConnectEDA staff to write a paper for all you users that are afraid to try autorouters. I have not accepted any payment for this effort , my only interest is have better design tools available and to open a new dialog for Protel users. Enjoy the article Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] LED Footprints
If you are talking about the standard T1/4, my compact library has the standard vertical mount 90 degree angle horizontal mount, including SOT-23 style LEDs. http://www.proteluser.com/download/Pcb_99SE_add-on/BriansStuff/ The brians_public.txt describes the contents of the brians_public.zip file. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Joe Sapienza To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] LED Footprints Roger, There are many different footprints for LEDs. You need to use the one that you plan on mounting. Or make one using the datasheet. Joe - Original Message - From: Roger Pizzatto Nunes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:35 PM Subject: [PEDA] LED Footprints Hi, Which is the footprint name of a normal LED? Which librarie on Protel DXP has this type of footprint? Thank you Roger - Original Message - From: Duane Foster To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Hello All, Please feel free to visit www.konekt.com and read my white paper on how to use the Electra Autorouter with Protel 99SE and DXP products. I have been posting for some time now that this router is one of the best products available. I was asked by the ConnectEDA staff to write a paper for all you users that are afraid to try autorouters. I have not accepted any payment for this effort , my only interest is have better design tools available and to open a new dialog for Protel users. Enjoy the article Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Duane The purpose of the article was to explore interactive routingthe interactive part and most boring part of this is manually fanning out. FAN out everything, boring and time consuming I know. but the rewards are no post clean up and very clean routes Just say No to the basic.do FAN Out as I suggested, take my word for it. If you have components on both sides and routing channels are not open, it doesn't matter if you manually attempt to route .routing channels must be open For your question. But i still would like the router to follow a 12mil track-SMDpad rule and a 14mil via-SMDpad ruleWhat are you calling track-SMDare you referring to the clearance to the smd pad? Trace widths can be controlled in Protel using net classes or identifying individual net names in the width rules set up. Open the DSN file using wordpad as I suggested, and do Control F to fine the net you assigned a rule to. If the net rule is not changed then the design rules are not set up in Protel. The DSN interface is excellent to ELECTRA and Spectra.If the design rules are set up, and there is ample clearance to push a 12 mil line thru, ELECTRA will route it in a microsecond. If it is not routing in microseconds after you type in route, then the rules are in conflict. It is that simple correct rules, yeilds efficient routing Mike -Original Message- From: Duane Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:37 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques thanks for your help see below for pointed response -Original Message- From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:08 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques HI Duane Before I can give an answer to all of your questionI need to know did you follow my step by step instructions for fanning out? I typically can route any design ( large ones with several thousand components ) in 5 passes. The secret is the routing channels must be kept open. i did not do any fan out.. i tried this on the premise that it is a simple board which 99SE could autoroute.. this board has some 0805s and 14 pin SOICs.. are you recommending that i fan out the SOICs? Secondly, what is are you calling the basic do is this the do file Protel generates? (DXP only). i am referring to a file which was installed by Electra (Basic.do). I would stay away from assigning directives like any direction this will only complicate things by not steering the router to work for you. Two layer designs work as easily as multilayer as long as you have open channels. That is key. On very populated tight designs I discount the component side as a routing layer because the components are in the way. i have components on both sides?! Perhaps it will route if i work on the component layout. But i still would like the router to follow a 12mil track-SMDpad rule and a 14mil via-SMDpad rule. Can you illuminate how to implement these special spacing rules? Electra will route 100 percent, as long as your rules make sense. Take a closer look at your rules and make sure they make sense. ie can a 10 mil line fit inside a 8 mil gap Let me know how I can help. And thanks for reading it. Mike Reagan -Original Message- From: Duane Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:18 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA]
[PEDA] SP6 not printing
Win2k Pro (SP2), 99SE, error when printing. hey there, we recently put SP6 on one of our machines here as we were\are running SP5. was a new-ish machine and everything was running smoothly... when printing a schematic we now get an 'access violation' error (ignore or quit) and cannot print the schematic on this machine. after this u have to close down protel and re-open and it gets ugly with access violation errors in windows that will not go away unless u kill the client99se task. got me stuffed! any help appreciated. thanks, jjg. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] LED Footprints
Thank you Brian. Roger - Original Message - From: Brian Guralnick To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] LED Footprints If you are talking about the standard T1/4, my compact library has the standard vertical mount 90 degree angle horizontal mount, including SOT-23 style LEDs. http://www.proteluser.com/download/Pcb_99SE_add-on/BriansStuff/ The brians_public.txt describes the contents of the brians_public.zip file. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Joe Sapienza To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] LED Footprints Roger, There are many different footprints for LEDs. You need to use the one that you plan on mounting. Or make one using the datasheet. Joe - Original Message - From: Roger Pizzatto Nunes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:35 PM Subject: [PEDA] LED Footprints Hi, Which is the footprint name of a normal LED? Which librarie on Protel DXP has this type of footprint? Thank you Roger - Original Message - From: Duane Foster To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I did not see any adherance to this special rule in the resulting routing. I have tried using small grids and assigning layers to 'any' direction, with some improvement. I would be encouraged with Electra if I could get 100% routing with adherance to my spacing rules. Any ideas or suggestions? Or does Electra shine on multi-layer stuff and this simple 2 layer board is under the Electra radar? Duane Foster -Original Message- From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Hello All, Please feel free to visit www.konekt.com and read my white paper on how to use the Electra Autorouter with Protel 99SE and DXP products. I have been posting for some time now that this router is one of the best products available. I was asked by the ConnectEDA staff to write a paper for all you users that are afraid to try autorouters. I have not accepted any payment for this effort , my only interest is have better design tools available and to open a new dialog for Protel users. Enjoy the article Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: *
Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques
Hi everyone; I have a quick question on the autorouters: Which autorouter(s) will route traces nicely while taking into consideration a net length constraint? For example, to route high speed DDR ram signals, typically 64 traces all have to be routed within 0.1 of each other. I have never seen an autorouter be able to do this. Is it even possible now with the new technologies? Thanks Stephen * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SP6 not printing
G'Day All, I have a similar issue with Protel SP6 for 99SE coupled with Win2k SP4. installation of both caused my machine to become very unstable, throwing the access violation at many places with 99SE. (Mainly in the simulator though, However, leaving the machine for a while was also popping the same problem.) I did discover that turning off the auto-backup facility in 99SE seemed to virtually eliminate this issue. (Although ... the simulator will still fall over at the slightest provocation!) So, perhaps turning off Auto-backup will help resolve your current dilemma? If someone else has a better suggestion, I certainly would like to know, as I do occasionally find the simulator useful. (Even though it is a pig of a thing to use, especially regarding the addition of spice models) Cheers Harry -Original Message- From: John Girvan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:53 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] SP6 not printing Win2k Pro (SP2), 99SE, error when printing. hey there, we recently put SP6 on one of our machines here as we were\are running SP5. was a new-ish machine and everything was running smoothly... when printing a schematic we now get an 'access violation' error (ignore or quit) and cannot print the schematic on this machine. after this u have to close down protel and re-open and it gets ugly with access violation errors in windows that will not go away unless u kill the client99se task. got me stuffed! any help appreciated. thanks, jjg. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques
I have set a global clearance of 10mil and would like the router to follow a 12mil track to SMDpad clearance rule and a 14mil via to SMDpad clearance rule. I have these additional clearance rules set in 99SE, but they do not transfer to the DSN file. thanks duane -Original Message- From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:05 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Duane The purpose of the article was to explore interactive routingthe interactive part and most boring part of this is manually fanning out. FAN out everything, boring and time consuming I know. but the rewards are no post clean up and very clean routes Just say No to the basic.do FAN Out as I suggested, take my word for it. If you have components on both sides and routing channels are not open, it doesn't matter if you manually attempt to route .routing channels must be open For your question. But i still would like the router to follow a 12mil track-SMDpad rule and a 14mil via-SMDpad ruleWhat are you calling track-SMDare you referring to the clearance to the smd pad? Trace widths can be controlled in Protel using net classes or identifying individual net names in the width rules set up. Open the DSN file using wordpad as I suggested, and do Control F to fine the net you assigned a rule to. If the net rule is not changed then the design rules are not set up in Protel. The DSN interface is excellent to ELECTRA and Spectra.If the design rules are set up, and there is ample clearance to push a 12 mil line thru, ELECTRA will route it in a microsecond. If it is not routing in microseconds after you type in route, then the rules are in conflict. It is that simple correct rules, yeilds efficient routing Mike -Original Message- From: Duane Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:37 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques thanks for your help see below for pointed response -Original Message- From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:08 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques HI Duane Before I can give an answer to all of your questionI need to know did you follow my step by step instructions for fanning out? I typically can route any design ( large ones with several thousand components ) in 5 passes. The secret is the routing channels must be kept open. i did not do any fan out.. i tried this on the premise that it is a simple board which 99SE could autoroute.. this board has some 0805s and 14 pin SOICs.. are you recommending that i fan out the SOICs? Secondly, what is are you calling the basic do is this the do file Protel generates? (DXP only). i am referring to a file which was installed by Electra (Basic.do). I would stay away from assigning directives like any direction this will only complicate things by not steering the router to work for you. Two layer designs work as easily as multilayer as long as you have open channels. That is key. On very populated tight designs I discount the component side as a routing layer because the components are in the way. i have components on both sides?! Perhaps it will route if i work on the component layout. But i still would like the router to follow a 12mil track-SMDpad rule and a 14mil via-SMDpad rule. Can you illuminate how to implement these special spacing rules? Electra will route 100 percent, as long as your rules make sense. Take a closer look at your rules and make sure they make sense. ie can a 10 mil line fit inside a 8 mil gap Let me know how I can help. And thanks for reading it. Mike Reagan -Original Message- From: Duane Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:18 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouting Techniques Thanks for the white paper Mike. I have been curious to try the Electra autorouter ( mainly because of your enthusiastic plugs ), and so I read your white paper and got the demo. I routed a small double sided board with SMD on both sides. I was able to get 100% routed in 99SE using 10/10 and 12mil spacing SMD-track. 99SE router will not do my desired 14mil SMD-via spacing, so i manually adjusted offending vias and cleaned up. I am trying Electra on the same layout and initially getting 94% completion and no adherance to any special clearance rules. I tried using your DO file and it seems ROUTE 5 is inadequate. Am i misunderstanding your intention? I tried the basic.do file with an addition of rule pcb (clearance 12 (type smd_wire). I
Re: [PEDA] stopping second instance of 99SE
great ! thanks i will try and report tomorrow and yes they should have taken care of this for us Dennis Saputelli Harry Lemmens wrote: Supposedly, this app will allow you to control this aspect of windows. I have not tried it myself. http://www.softaward.com/732.html Actually, it should have been written into the application itself (That is, to detect, and dis-allow a second instance of itself to be launched!) Done correctly, it would have opened the DDB in the already active session. Cheers Harry -Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:11 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] stopping second instance of 99SE is there any utility out there that will stop a second instance of a program from running when you double click a data file with a file associated which would start that program ? sure would love that, seems like it would be feasible from the small amount i know about this stuff this desire is due to the all too frequent mishap of double clicking a DDB instead of or during dragging it to the title bar after 2 copies are running i have found it a MUST to quit them both and restart 99SE, else something goes screwy with the loaded libraries i'm sure i posted this some time ago but thought i would try again Dennis Saputelli -- ___ Integrated Controls, Inc. Tel: 415-647-0480 EXT 107 2851 21st StreetFax: 415-647-3003 San Francisco, CA 94110 www.integratedcontrolsinc.com -- ___ Integrated Controls, Inc. Tel: 415-647-0480 EXT 107 2851 21st StreetFax: 415-647-3003 San Francisco, CA 94110 www.integratedcontrolsinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SP6 not printing
Do you get the same problem when logged onto the machine as administrator? John Girvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/23/2004 09:53:04 AM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc) Subject: [PEDA] SP6 not printing Win2k Pro (SP2), 99SE, error when printing. hey there, we recently put SP6 on one of our machines here as we were\are running SP5. was a new-ish machine and everything was running smoothly... when printing a schematic we now get an 'access violation' error (ignore or quit) and cannot print the schematic on this machine. after this u have to close down protel and re-open and it gets ugly with access violation errors in windows that will not go away unless u kill the client99se task. got me stuffed! any help appreciated. thanks, jjg. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] stopping second instance of 99SE
oh well, thanks anyway Harry but unless i missed something in my exhaustive :} 3 minute trial of CONTROL LAUNCHER here is what i see: the launcher they provide will not start a second copy of the launched program if the default setting of 'one copy only' is set and you use their program launch button but if you dbl click on a DDB in 'explorer' a second copy is started up as usual i would think that it would be possible for a program to intercept the file association program 'launching' process and prevent that but as for now the search goes on (maybe i am the only one who wants this) BTW and on a vaguely related topic has anyone tried ExplorerPlus ? http://www.novatix.com/ as i am always in search of a file manager to replace the hated (at least by me) Windows Explorer i have found this prog and am so far impressed enough that i actually shelled out the big bucks ($40) after the free trial run Dennis Saputelli Harry Lemmens wrote: Supposedly, this app will allow you to control this aspect of windows. I have not tried it myself. http://www.softaward.com/732.html Actually, it should have been written into the application itself (That is, to detect, and dis-allow a second instance of itself to be launched!) Done correctly, it would have opened the DDB in the already active session. Cheers Harry -Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:11 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] stopping second instance of 99SE is there any utility out there that will stop a second instance of a program from running when you double click a data file with a file associated which would start that program ? sure would love that, seems like it would be feasible from the small amount i know about this stuff this desire is due to the all too frequent mishap of double clicking a DDB instead of or during dragging it to the title bar after 2 copies are running i have found it a MUST to quit them both and restart 99SE, else something goes screwy with the loaded libraries i'm sure i posted this some time ago but thought i would try again Dennis Saputelli -- -- ___ Integrated Controls, Inc. Tel: 415-647-0480 EXT 107 2851 21st StreetFax: 415-647-3003 San Francisco, CA 94110 www.integratedcontrolsinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
