Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 18/03/07, Tony Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on someone else's patch. It seems relevant to me that the original > > poster (Tony Meyer) hasn't felt strongly enough to respond on his own > > behalf to comments on his patch. No disrespect to Tony, but I'd argue > > that the implication is t

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Tony Meyer schrieb: > ISTM that there is value in submitting a patch (including tests and > documentation, and making appropriate comment in related patches), even > if that is all that is done (i.e. no follow-up). That's certainly, absolutely, true. It's also true that there are very many kind

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 8/03/2007, at 2:42 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 06/03/07, Scott Dial <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Sadly the sf tracker doesn't let you search for "With comments >> by". The >> patch I was making reference to was 1410680. Someone else actually >> had >> wrote a patch that contained bugs and I

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/10/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:10:48PM -0800, Neal Norwitz wrote: > > We should probably be a lot more aggressive about closing bugs and > > patches without response. Unfortunately many fall into this category. > > This question comes up every so

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:10:48PM -0800, Neal Norwitz wrote: > We should probably be a lot more aggressive about closing bugs and > patches without response. Unfortunately many fall into this category. This question comes up every so often, and after much discussion I think python-dev always con

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, Scott Dial <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If nothing else, as an outsider there is no way to know why your patch > gets ignored while others get swiftly dealt with. Any sort of > information like this would at least provide more transparency in what > may appear to be elitest processes.

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/7/07, Facundo Batista <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > FWIW, I have a related perception that we aren't getting new core > > developers. These two problems are probably related: people don't get > > patches processed and don't become core developers, and we don't have >

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> - How can I know if a patch is still open? > > Easy: if it's marked as Open. > >> - I found a problem, and know how to fix it, but what else need to do? > > Go to www.python.org, then "CORE DEVELOPMENT", then "Patch submission". > >> - Found a problem in the docs, for thi

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 08/03/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Titus Brown schrieb: > > and it's not at all clear to outsiders like me how new > > features, old patches, and old bugs are dealt with. > > The simple answer is "when we have time". There really is not > more to it. Some patches get high

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo schrieb: I can't see that the barrier at contributing is high. >>> >>> I think this says it all. It now appears obvious to me that people >>> inside the "mafia" don't even realize there is one. Thus, it looks >>> like we are all wasting time in this thread, since they think th

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Josiah Carlson writes: > > And the best way to encourage someone to maintain a package is... > > accepting their patches. > > And that's what I think is bull. Whether or not we want or need > maintainers for module or package X is independant of the fact that user > Y has submitted a patc

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/7/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Me, for example, has an actual question to this list: "How can I know, > > if I change something in the doc's .tex files, that I'm not broking > > the TeX document structure?". > > You don't have to know. As a general contributor, just s

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Georg Brandl schrieb: > > Of course, the channel would have to be made an "official" Python development > tool and advertised on e.g. the website. Also, it couldn't hurt if some of the > other devs would frequent it too, then :) > I definitely won't: I don't use IRC (or any other chat infrastruct

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Facundo Batista schrieb: > I finally understood the problem, and build python from the repository, > and made the tests from *this* python (actually, this was an easy step > because I'm on Ubuntu, but *I* would be dead if working in Windows, for > example). > > Ok. *Me*, that I'm not ashame of ask

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Titus Brown schrieb: > Hi, I just wanted to interject -- when I used the word "mafia", I meant > it in this sense: > > """ > Informal. A tightly knit group of trusted associates, as of a political > leader: [He] is one of the personal mafia that [the chancellor] > brought with him to Bonn. > """ >

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/7/07, Titus Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 11:10:22AM +0100, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > -> Giovanni Bajo schrieb: > -> > On 06/03/2007 10.52, Martin v. L?wis wrote: > -> > > -> >> I can't see that the barrier at contributing is high. > -> > > -> > I think this says

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 11:10:22AM +0100, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: -> Giovanni Bajo schrieb: -> > On 06/03/2007 10.52, Martin v. L?wis wrote: -> > -> >> I can't see that the barrier at contributing is high. -> > -> > I think this says it all. It now appears obvious to me that people -> > inside

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/6/2007 3:11 AM, Josiah Carlson wrote: > > Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I think this should be pushed to its extreme consequences for the standard > >> library. Patching the standard library requires *much less* knowledge than > >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

""Martin v. Löwis"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >You may ask yourself why this specific patch was unreviewed for >so long. My own explanation is that it is a highly complicated >algorithm (as any kind of cryptographical algorithm), so nobody >felt qualified to revi

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Ron Adam schrieb: >> But the tracker needs to be able to actually track the status of >> individual items for this to work. Currently there's this huge list >> and you have to either wade though it to find out the status of each >> item, or depend on someone bring it to

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Paul Moore schrieb: > 1. Open a new patch, with your recommended changes. I'd like to second this. If you are creating a patch by responding in a comment, it likely gets ignored. > 2. Address the comments made against Tony's patch, in yours. > 3. Add a recommendation to Tony's patch that it be

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Facundo Batista schrieb: > How many people want to submit a patch, or even a bug, or finds a patch > to review, but don't know how to do something and thinks that python-dev > is not the place to ask (too high minds and experienced people and > everything)? > > What I propose is a dedicated place

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 06/03/07, Scott Dial <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Martin v. Löwis wrote: > > Paul Moore schrieb: > >> Here's a random offer - let me know the patch number for your patch, > >> and I'll review it. > > > > Surprisingly (and I hope Scott can clarify that), I can't find anything. > > Assuming Scott'

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A.M. Kuchling wrote: > FWIW, I have a related perception that we aren't getting new core > developers. These two problems are probably related: people don't get > patches processed and don't become core developers, and we don't have > enough core developers to process patches in a timely way. And

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Paul Moore schrieb: >> Here's a random offer - let me know the patch number for your patch, >> and I'll review it. > > Surprisingly (and I hope Scott can clarify that), I can't find anything. > Assuming Scott's SF account is "geekmug", I don't see any open patches > (15740

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

As an outsider who has submitted a handful of patches and has always wanted to become more involved.. I would like to comment as I feel like I am the target audience in question. I apologize ahead of time if I am speaking out of place. Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Phil Thompson schrieb: >> 1. Don't

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo schrieb: > On 06/03/2007 10.52, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > >> I can't see that the barrier at contributing is high. > > I think this says it all. It now appears obvious to me that people > inside the "mafia" don't even realize there is one. Thus, it looks like > we are all wasting

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Ron Adam schrieb: > But the tracker needs to be able to actually track the status of individual > items for this to work. Currently there's this huge list and you have to > either wade though it to find out the status of each item, or depend on > someone bring it to your attention. Well, the

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Barry Warsaw schrieb: > Jira had a way of automatically assigning certain categories to certain > people. I think the term was project leader or some such. Of course, > this didn't mean that someone else couldn't fix the bug or that the bug > couldn't be reassigned to someone else, but at leas

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Neal Norwitz wrote: > On 3/6/07, Ron Adam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Neal Norwitz wrote: >> >> I'm looking forward to a new tracker and hope it manages single >> projects... >> (patches and bugs) better. It would be great if we could search for >> items >> based on possibly the following cond

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/6/07, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ""Martin v. Löwis"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >1. Public identification will not help, because: > >2. most code isn't in the responsibility of anybody (so publically > >identifying responsibilities would

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/6/07, Ron Adam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Neal Norwitz wrote: > > I'm looking forward to a new tracker and hope it manages single projects... > (patches and bugs) better. It would be great if we could search for items > based on possibly the following conditions. The best place to discuss

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 6, 2007, at 7:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Why not add some tag capability to the new tracker (maybe the generic > keywords field you mentioned would suffice)? People could attach > whatever > tags seem appropriate. Limiting the tags t

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Martin> If, for "Modules", you want a more fine-grained classification, Martin> it would be possible to add new categories, or add another field Martin> "affected modules" (multi-list, I assume). Why not add some tag capability to the new tracker (maybe the generic keywords field you

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tuesday 06 March 2007 20:24, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > It might be that individuals get designated maintainers: Guido > maintains list and tuple, Tim maintaines dict, Raymond maintains > set, I maintain configure.in. However, I doubt that would work in > practice. That approach would simply give

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

""Martin v. Löwis"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Terry Reedy schrieb: | > It would also be helpful if the new tracker system could produce a list of | > module-specific open items sorted by module, since that would indicate | > modules needing attention, and I co

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Terry Reedy schrieb: > It would also be helpful if the new tracker system could produce a list of > module-specific open items sorted by module, since that would indicate > modules needing attention, and I could look for a batch that were > unassigned. The new tracker will initially have the sa

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Neal Norwitz wrote: > I recognize there is a big problem here. Each of us as individuals > don't scale. So in order to get stuff done we need to be more > distributed. This means distributing the workload (partially so we > don't burn out). In order to do that we need to distribute the > know

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 01:51:41PM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > dustin> In summary, create a layer of volunteer, non-committing > dustin> maintainers for specific modules who agree to do in-depth > dustin> analysis of patches for their areas of expertise, and pass > dustin>

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 01:03:39PM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Could the Summer of Code be used as a vehicle to match up current developers > with potentially new ones? The svn sandbox (or a branch) could serve as a > place for developers to get their feet wet. Perhaps Raymond can comment on

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

dustin> In summary, create a layer of volunteer, non-committing dustin> maintainers for specific modules who agree to do in-depth dustin> analysis of patches for their areas of expertise, and pass dustin> well-formed, reviewed patches along to committers. One problem with this sor

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

""Martin v. Löwis"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >1. Public identification will not help, because: >2. most code isn't in the responsibility of anybody (so publically >identifying responsibilities would leave most code unassigned), and >3. for the code that has

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Nick> I don't know whether or not there is anything specific we can do Nick> to encourage that kind of coaching/mentoring activity, but I know Nick> it was a significant factor in my become more comfortable with Nick> making contributions. Martin> While there was no explicit m

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Any ideas for fixing this problem? The current developer FAQ says: 2.4 How can I become a developer? There's only one way to become a developer, and that's through the School of Hard Knocks. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-de

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Ilya Sandler schrieb: > I'd also suggest that request for test cases/docs comes after > (or together with) suggestion that a feature is desirable in the first > place. It depends. I was going through some old patches today, and came across one that added a class to heapq. I couldn't tell (even aft

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, [ISO-8859-1] "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > Yet, in all these years, nobody else commented that the patch was incomplete, > let alone commenting on whether the feature was desirable. Which actually brings up another point: in many cases even a simple comment by a core developer

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 01:50:25AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Why not? It depends on how far out "out" is, but I was surprised how > much effect we (at XEmacs) got by simply asking people who contributed > a couple of patches if they would like to take on tracking + patch > flow managemen

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

George Brandl writes: >> As far as I recall, there has been nearly no one who asked for >> commit rights recently, so why complain that the entry barrier is >> too great? Surely you cannot expect python-dev to got out and say >> "would you like to have commit privileges?"... Why not? It depe

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 09:06:22AM +, Phil Thompson wrote: >> My point is simply that the effort required to review patches seems to be a >> problem. Perhaps the reasons for that need to be looked at and the process >> changed so that it is more effective. At the mome

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Martin v. Löwis schrieb: > Nick Coghlan schrieb: >> One thing that did happen though (which the messages from Jeremy & Phil >> reminded me of) is that I got a lot of direction, advice and assistance >> from Raymond when I was doing that initial work on improving the speed >> of the decimal modul

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > For example, our oldest bug is http://www.python.org/sf/214033, opened > 2000-09-11, and is that (x?)? is reported as an error by the SRE regex > parser; the PCRE engine and Perl both accept it. Fixing it requires > changing sre_parse, figuring out what to do (should it b

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Nick Coghlan schrieb: > One thing that did happen though (which the messages from Jeremy & Phil > reminded me of) is that I got a lot of direction, advice and assistance > from Raymond when I was doing that initial work on improving the speed > of the decimal module - I had the time available to

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Jeremy Hylton schrieb: > You can ask whether we should have a plan for increasing the number of > developers, actively seeking out new developers, and mentoring people > who express interest. Would the code be better if we had more good > developers working on it? Would we get more bugs fixed and

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 09:06:22AM +, Phil Thompson wrote: > My point is simply that the effort required to review patches seems to be a > problem. Perhaps the reasons for that need to be looked at and the process > changed so that it is more effective. At the moment people just seem be > sa

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Georg Brandl wrote: > As far as I recall, there has been nearly no one who asked for commit rights > recently, so why complain that the entry barrier is too great? Surely you > cannot expect python-dev to got out and say "would you like to have commit > privileges?"... I think the number one sugge

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 10:26:50AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > I'm not interested in setting up GIT myself, mostly because it > doesn't solve any issues that other dvcs' don't solve dvcs wars are the new editor wars. :-) > the on-disk repository is mighty big and it doesn't work very well > on

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tuesday 06 March 2007 1:42 pm, Jeremy Hylton wrote: > On 3/6/07, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Raymond Hettinger schrieb: > > > [Phil Thompson] > > > > > >> I think a lot of people care, but many can't > > >> do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. > > > > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/6/07, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Raymond Hettinger schrieb: > > [Phil Thompson] > >> I think a lot of people care, but many can't > >> do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. > > > > Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be > > handed out read

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Raymond Hettinger schrieb: > [Phil Thompson] >> I think a lot of people care, but many can't >> do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. > > Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be > handed out readily to people who assert that they have good use for them. > As

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Paul Moore schrieb: >> Scott Dial schrieb: >>> While I understand that this tit-for-tat mechanism is meant to ensure >>> participation, I believe in reality it doesn't, as the 400-some >>> outstanding patches you referenced elswhere indicate. I can personally >>> attest to having a patch that is ov

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 06/03/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Scott Dial schrieb: > > While I understand that this tit-for-tat mechanism is meant to ensure > > participation, I believe in reality it doesn't, as the 400-some > > outstanding patches you referenced elswhere indicate. I can personally >

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull schrieb: > > Second, where the stdlib module is closely bound to the core, the > > maintainer ends up being the group of core developers. It can't be > > any other way, it seems to me. > > It might be that individuals get designated maintain

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson writes: > MvL wrote: > > I doubt this will help. Much of the code isn't owned by anybody > > specifically. Those parts that are owned typically find their patches > > reviewed and committed quickly (e.g. the tar file module, maintained by > > Lars Gustäbel). > Doesn't your la

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: > My point is simply that the effort required to review patches seems to be a > problem. Perhaps the reasons for that need to be looked at and the process > changed so that it is more effective. At the moment people just seem be > saying "that's the way it is because that'

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: >>> Of course it's not unreasonable. I would expect to be told that a patch >>> must have tests and docs before it will be finally accepted. However, >>> before I add those things to the patch I would like some timely feedback >>> from those with more experience that my patch

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: >> And please be assured that no such obstacle is in the submitters way. >> Most patches are accepted without the submitter actually reviewing any >> other patches. > > I'm glad to hear it - but I'm talking about the perception, not the fact. > When > occasionally submitte

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: >>> 2. Publically identify the core developers and their areas of expertise >>> and responsibility (ie. which parts of the source tree they "own"). >> I doubt this will help. Much of the code isn't owned by anybody >> specifically. Those parts that are owned typically find t

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/6/07, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [MvL] >> While submitting patches is good, there's a lot more to it than just >> submitting the 5-line code change to submit a bug/feature, and reviewing >> takes a lot of time and effort. That was incorrectly attributed; it was me, not

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/6/07, Neil Schemenauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Using git-svn to track a SVN repository seems to work well. I'm not interested in setting up GIT myself, mostly because it doesn't solve any issues that other dvcs' don't solve, the on-disk repository is mighty big and it doesn't work ver

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Stephen J. Turnbull schrieb: > An informal version of this process is how XEmacs identifies its > Reviewers (the title we give to those privileged to authorize commits > to all parts of XEmacs). People who care enough to make technical > comments on *others'* patches are rare, and we grab the comp

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tuesday 06 March 2007 6:15 am, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > [Phil Thompson] > > > I think a lot of people care, but many can't > > do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. > > Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be > handed out readily to people who assert that

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/6/07, Phil Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 06 March 2007 5:49 am, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > > Phil Thompson schrieb: > > > I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that, if you want to > > > encourage people to become core developers, they have to have a method of > > > gra

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tuesday 06 March 2007 6:00 am, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Phil Thompson schrieb: > >>> Any ideas for fixing this problem? > >> > >> A better patch-tracker, better procedures for reviewing patches > >> surounding this new tracker, one or more proper dvcs's for people to > >> work off of. I'm not su

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tuesday 06 March 2007 5:49 am, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Phil Thompson schrieb: > > I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that, if you want to > > encourage people to become core developers, they have to have a method of > > graduating through the ranks - learning (and being taught) as the

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Tuesday 06 March 2007 5:42 am, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Phil Thompson schrieb: > > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, > > they should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put > > together a patch is much less than that required to know if a

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 5 Mar, 2007, at 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > amk> Any ideas for fixing this problem? > > Not a one. > > amk> Tangentially related: > amk> At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read- > only > amk> Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo writes: > On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > > too much effort, and might make things easier for external people > > developin

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo writes: > On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: >> 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch >> reviewed, they should review other patches. The level of knowledge >> required to put together a patch is much less than that required >> to know if a patch is

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Raymond Hettinger schrieb: > [Phil Thompson] >> I think a lot of people care, but many can't >> do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. > > Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be > handed out readily to people who assert that they have good use for them. > As

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Scott Dial schrieb: > While I understand that this tit-for-tat mechanism is meant to ensure > participation, I believe in reality it doesn't, as the 400-some > outstanding patches you referenced elswhere indicate. I can personally > attest to having a patch that is over a year old with no "core

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

[Phil Thompson] > I think a lot of people care, but many can't > do anything about because the barrier to entry is too great. Do you mean commit priviledges? ISTM, those tend to be handed out readily to people who assert that they have good use for them. Ask the Georg-bot how readily he was acce

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Collin Winter schrieb: > It would also be helpful to have some loose guidelines/requirements > for how to become a module maintainer (e.g., "we're looking for the > following traits..."). That is easy to answer: Review the patches of the module, and post a message to python-dev about your findings

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Neil Schemenauer schrieb: > I guess Andrew was looking for specific instructions. Install git > and git-svn. For Debian stable, you can get them from > http://backports.org/debian/pool/main/g/git-core/. > > Initialize the repository: > > git-svn init http://svn.foo.org/project/trunk > > Fe

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: >>> Any ideas for fixing this problem? >> A better patch-tracker, better procedures for reviewing patches surounding >> this new tracker, one or more proper dvcs's for people to work off of. I'm >> not sure about 'identifying core developers' as we're all volunteers, with >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: > I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that, if you want to encourage > people to become core developers, they have to have a method of graduating > through the ranks - learning (and being taught) as they go. To place a very > high obstacle in their way right at th

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > The patches list really ought to be _this_ list. The fact that it isn't > is indicative of a failure of the community. I disagree that python-dev isn't the patches list. People often discuss patches here (although much discussion is also in the tracker). > One worr

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Phil Thompson schrieb: > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, they > should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put together > a patch is much less than that required to know if a patch is the right one. People don't *have* to review patches

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > FWIW, I have a related perception that we aren't getting new core > developers. These two problems are probably related: people don't get > patches processed and don't become core developers, and we don't have > enough core developers to process patches in a timely way. An

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > One problem may be that there *aren't* maintainers for various > subsystems; various people have contributed bugfixes and patches for, > say, urllib, but I have no idea what single person I would go to for a > problem. > > Is it worth cre

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: > > 2. Publically identify the core developers and their areas of expertise and > > responsibility (ie. which parts of the source tree they "own"). > > I think this should be pushed to its extreme consequences f

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 08:50:46PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > is indicative of a failure of the community. A good deal of the > discussion here in recent months has either been highly speculative, or > only tangentially related to Python's development, which is ostensibly > its topic. W

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 11:30:06PM +, Neil Schemenauer wrote: > I guess Andrew was looking for specific instructions. ... I'm happy to let the ball sit in Thomas's court until the Bazaar developers come out with 0.15 and run their conversion on the SVN repository. There's no burning hurry ab

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/5/07, Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > > > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > > > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 3/5/07, Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > > too much effort, and might make things easier for externa

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only > Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be > too much effort, and might make things easier for external people > developing patches. I really believe this is ju

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: > 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, they > should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put together > a patch is much less than that required to know if a patch is the right one. +1000. > 2. Publ

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007, Terry Reedy wrote: > > Tracker item review is an obvious bottleneck in Python development. > In particular, reviewing patches appears not to be nearly as > self-motivating as writing them, and other activities. So I think the > PSF should pay one or more people to do so. Pos

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

"Phil Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Monday 05 March 2007 6:46 pm, A.M. Kuchling wrote: | > FWIW, I have a related perception that we aren't getting new core | > developers. These two problems are probably related: people don't get | > patches processed

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

Neil Schemenauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Using git-svn to track a SVN repository seems to work well. It > would be trivial to setup a cron job on one of the python.org > machines that would create a publicly accessible repository. I guess Andrew was looking for specific instructions. Instal

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

On Monday 05 March 2007 9:38 pm, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On 3/5/07, A.M. Kuchling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >From > > > 4. The patch mafia. I like everyone on python-dev that I meet, > > but somehow it is ann

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