Shaun,
Based on my experience and research, I love the design of the Atlantis.
However, it's a pricey option so I'm considering a LHT instead. The only
thing about the Trucker that concerns me is the chainstay length of 46cm
(compared to the 44cm chainstays of the Atlantis). You've ridden
When I had my old Trek Multitrack re-fitted with a threadless fork it took
two phone calls and a personal visit to the shop to convince them not to
cut the steerer tube! I told them to stack the spacers and put the stem
at the very top (so I'd have plenty of cable length). I'll admit it
It's not actually clear which frames on the current geometry chart show the
effective rather than actual TT lengths. I know for example that the
Hunqapillar TT lengths listed are definitely not effective length though, I
don't even think they are actual length.
Matt
On Thursday, August
The following frames do not have expanded geometry: Atlantis, AHH, Roadeo.
The following do: Hillborne, Hunqapillar, Bombadil, San Marcos, Betty Foy
The expanded ones are identified in the chart by their 6 degree toptube slope
(if they have a TT.) Any in that category should be showing just
Hi Jim, I measured a 58 and and a 62, though my measurements may have been
off by half a centimeter give or take.The 58 seems to have a 61cm
actual TT length, and the 62 has a 63cm actual TT length.Doing some
trigonometry the 58 Hunq has about a 63cm effective TT and the 62 has about
a
I've got a 64cm LHT that replaced a 68cm Atlantis. There is probably 1 or 2
more cm of seatpost showing on the Trucker but I feel more comfortable on
it. With spacers on the steerer the vertical relationship beween the saddle
and the bars is the same as on the Atlantis (bars slightly higher than
I've never met a mean guy in a bike shop. Mostly passionate people, some
jaded people who've heard it all before. This works for me and it should
work for you, too, is a natural attitude. I think the comfort aspect that
is so important to us, um, older guys really is lost in bike shops and
my sister and BIL have new bikes from REI. Her power is not falling off.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 6:50:30 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
I've never met a mean guy in a bike shop. Mostly passionate people, some
jaded people who've heard it all before. This works for me and it should
work
Buying a Surly using the Riv sizing guideline apples-to-apples is quite
likely to result in a bike that's on the too-big side.
I could see that if you aimed for a fistful of seatpost on a Karate-Monkey,
you'd end up with a bike that is too big.But it seems the Cross-check
and LHT have
Wow, Jim, thanks for this information.
I had never really thought about this since I always ride Surly's largest
sizes. I checked out the Surly site and noted that for the LHT, all sizes
of the 700c bikes have a 320 mm steer tube. I'm glad I didn't get a 64cm
LHT thinking I would get
A friend of mine recently purchased a Long Haul Trucker from his LBS in
Wisconsin after coming up and test riding both my LHT and my Ogre to decide
which one he wanted to get.
When the shop took delivery of the bike, my friend called me asking for my
advice as to what height he should have his
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:16:04 PM UTC-7, meehan...@gmail.com wrote:
A friend of mine recently purchased a Long Haul Trucker from his LBS in
Wisconsin after coming up and test riding both my LHT and my Ogre to
decide which one he wanted to get.
When the shop took delivery of the
On a related note I just bought a new frameset that came with a 400mm
threadless steerer. He spec'd it super extra long to make it impossible
for anyone to want it any longer, especially considering his XL is not
that big, only a 60cm c-c. I cut about 90mm off mine (58 cm c-c
framesize), and
What constitutes a fistful, and why does such an arbitrary dimension lead
us around by the short hairs? Can't we go 2 cm either way and still have an
approximate fistful? I would say that in general, with Long Haul Truckers
and Cross-checks, go one size down from the Riv recommendation simply
Jim
+1 on your assessment for sizing Riv Atlantis and Surly LHT.
My 62cm LHT fits similarly to the way my 64cm Atlantis did. Going to a 64cm
LHT would also have me on a bike with a somewhat longer tt for the same bar
height. I've got a short torso for my height and the extra reach would be
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:12:22 PM UTC-4, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
wrote:
What constitutes a fistful, and why does such an arbitrary dimension
lead us around by the short hairs? Can't we go 2 cm either way and still
have an approximate fistful? I would say that in general, with
a fistful is a the right ballpark to begin, then you dial in everything.
Higher, lower, forward, back. It's amazing what a difference 1 or 2
degrees rotation can make on handlebar.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:44:59 PM UTC-5, David Craig wrote:
Jim
+1 on your assessment for sizing Riv
Matt:
Also, Surly measures their Crosscheck and LHT frame sizes *exactly* the
same way Rivendell measures theirs: Center-to-top (i.e., top of TT).
My better half owns one of the early crosschecks which is sitting in our
living room, and this is how it's measured/sized.
From the Riv site:
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:21:24 PM UTC-4, David Craig wrote:
Matt:
Also, Surly measures their Crosscheck and LHT frame sizes *exactly* the
same way Rivendell measures theirs: Center-to-top (i.e., top of TT).
My better half owns one of the early crosschecks which is sitting in
gotta agree with Matt on this one.. the diagram on Surly's site is pretty
clear.
and while I'm at it... Seems to me Grant ought to say more about top tube
length as part of the bike fit info. Especially with his sloping top tube
models. For me I look at that 1st and seat tube length
Point taken, Matt.
On the topic of tt's, I seem to recall reading in something from RBW that they
list only the effective tt on the geometry charts. Is that true? If so, does it
apply to the Atlantis as well as the bikes with more angle to the tt
(Hilborne).?
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Query: Why do most manufacturers use the C-T measurement, when the
top is sorta' ambiguous? Seems like C-C is a more consistent
measurement, and the way top tubes are measured as well. Juster
wondering.
On 7/31/13, David Craig neritic.mari...@gmail.com wrote:
Point taken, Matt.
On the topic of
For that matter, in the industry in general why are so few TT upslope angles
included in geometry info? With Rivs, for example, it's important to know that
some models slope about 2 degrees, while others slope 6 degrees. The 6 degree
ones shoot those bars up about 4 extra centimeters relative
To David Craig's question: no, for Atlantis and AHH, the TT listings are
actual, not effective. So with those two, the effective TT is a bit longer, but
the effect is relatively small due to low angles.
But yes it's true that the expanded frames (6 degree upslope ones) only list
the effective
Surly measures center to top, but the seat tube extends past the toptube a
bit. You can kindof see what I mean in this geometry diagram:
http://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check_ss/geometry
Pre-cutting a steel steerer (unlike a carbon fiber one that has a maximum
recommended number of spacers
in a perfect world, we'd all have custom-made frames with top tubes and
seat tubes made just for us. Most of us can't. My buddy and I are both
6'3, but my legs are 5 longer than his, and his torso is 5 longer than
mine. He rides a 59cm and needs a long top tube, I ride a 64cm and need a
It's tough to fit a bike. Really, it's much tougher than I think it seems
to many of us. It's way tougher than selling shoes and even that isn't
straightforward. Can we give well-intentioned shop owners, manufacturers
and bike shop kids the benefit of the doubt? That doesn't mean we should
I do, though, use my Gransfors-Bruk Mini Hatchet. ;)
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To post
Lets not have this degrade into something where people have to justify to
whoever that they use what they buy or deserve to own something. I buy
stuff because I like it, what I do or don't do with it is my own business.
I might buy that hatchet and just hang it on a wall for the next 20 years
Lets not have this degrade into something where people have to justify to
whoever that they use what they buy or deserve to own something.
Yep, I agree 100%. I'm truly sorry if I offended anyone.
I have nothin' against hatchet buyers or sellers, would-be woodspeople in
Walnut Creek, or anybody
David,
Wow! Kudos to you. You just saved me a a lot of typing. Everything,
everything you just stated I agree with. Extremely well said.
Advertisers, use the notion that we make decisions based on emotion and we
rectify those decisions by believing we came to those decisions by way of
Excellent points made. I hope that I positively influenced the purchase of
the bike. Only time will (may?) tell. After the positive and thoughtful
comments from all listers on this thread, I might have been a lot more
circumspect in helping my friend. Perhaps I would have just presented
The only thing I'd fault the shop on is cutting the steerer tube before
selling the bike.
This! I'm sorry but the only way to explain this (pre-fitting) is stupid, lazy
or both.
• Perry
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Seems silly to cut down all those steerers.
But I am impressed that a bike shop carries multiple sizes of Cross
Checks on the floor. That's pretty cool in and of itself.
On 7/28/13, bobish bob...@gmail.com wrote:
The only thing I'd fault the shop on is cutting the steerer tube before
selling
Couple o' points -
- Yeah, I do think that a lot of large-scale manufacturers send the bikes
with shorter steerers. Forks and frames don't necessarily come from the
same production facility, and they are often cut to spec before packaging
them.
- Grant's fitting guidelines are ostensibly
Well at least this encounter with the bike-fit establishment ended well,
despite their best efforts :)I give your friend a lot of credit for
sticking with what he felt was the best size.
Perhaps what happened here is an instance of a phenomenon Grant Petersen
explains in his essay
Size Matters. And not just in the bike. My experience has been that the
larger the shop the smaller the level of knowledge. There are of course
exceptions to this, e.g. Harris Cyclery. But most often very large bike
shops survive by hiring college age guys, usually steeped in racing, to
Actually, it sounds to me like everyone knew what they were doing. I've
owned a number of Surly bikes over the years. The first one, a Cross
Check, was 62cm. Realized after about 2 months I'd never get comfortable
with the handlebars so far away. Ended up putting Albatross bars on that
bike
Even shops that are aware of and support Rivendell sizing techniques can
sometimes lead you astray. I once had my PBH measured at such a shop,
an otherwise really great shop which shall remain unnamed, and they
measured it at 88cm, which in retrospect I think is definitely about 2cm
too
I used to work in a bike shop and fitting can be tricky. There are
thousands of bike fitting philosophies, so it is impossible to be up to
speed on all of them. I had people come in to by a $400 hybrid with a
printed out article on how carbon race bikes should fit. But your friend
did the
An excellent point about the measurement system. The CC SS comes with flat
bars with a bit of a backwards sweep, so maybe the longer top tube was what
my friend found so comfortable. Curiously, the store was of the opinion
that if you have drops, then a longer top tube is better so you can
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