= stereographic.
Thomas Brenndorfer
Guelph Public Library
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Deborah Fritz
Sent: October 25, 2012 11:00 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required
Thomas Brennndorfer said:
Carrier Type includes Media Type as a constituent attribute, which
means Carrier Type volume includes unmediated and would therefore
exclude stereographic for the intermediation attribute. One can't
combine volume and stereographic, and stereographic by itself
would at
-Original Message-
From: J. McRee Elrod [mailto:m...@slc.bc.ca]
Sent: October 27, 2012 1:54 PM
To: Brenndorfer, Thomas
Cc: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA -- Carrier Type and
stereographic
Thomas Brennndorfer said:
Carrier Type
Thomas said of stereographic images in a volume:
No, that's not what you have. You still need a separate intermediary
device for the carrier.
Yes, that is what you have. You need a separate intermediate device
to ser the images *in* the carrier in 3D. The volume can be pulled
from the shelf
Deborah Fritz said concerning stereographic images in a volume:
Apparently, stereographic images can also appear on slides, printed sheets,
and iPhones, so, I would say that the carrier list might need updating for
this media, but until that happens, it seems to me that the only option, to
mirror
I don't think AACR2 used to be revised through populist revolutions either ...
True enough, but the cost for access to AACR2 was less than the cost of access
to RDA, which, despite the constant hymns to its wonderfulness, is still too
expensive for many libraries and other agencies who might
I've been creating constant data forms for my most commonly used
formats, with the 33x fields already filled in--that's even faster.
I really like the 33x fields for many of the materials that i catalog,
but there are some gaping holes.
There isn't a content type that's appropriate for
Of Greta de Groat
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:39 PM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
I've been creating constant data forms for my most commonly used formats, with
the 33x fields already filled in--that's even faster.
I really like
] Additional work required by RDA
I've been creating constant data forms for my most commonly used
formats, with the 33x fields already filled in--that's even faster.
I really like the 33x fields for many of the materials that i catalog,
but there are some gaping holes.
There isn't a content type
Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Jonathan Rochkind
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:17 PM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
On 10/25/2012 12:57 PM, Benjamin A Abrahamse wrote:
Yes, a computer game
On 10/25/2012 1:20 PM, Benjamin A Abrahamse wrote:
If a library holds software, mightn't a user want to see a list of
all the software the library holds, whether games or word processors
or what have you
I suppose. But that seems to me like a less direct, or usual user
task than, Show me what
-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Rochkind [mailto:rochk...@jhu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:31 PM
To: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
Cc: Benjamin A Abrahamse
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
On 10/25/2012 1:20 PM, Benjamin
Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Jonathan Rochkind
Sent: October 25, 2012 1:31 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
On 10/25/2012 1:20 PM, Benjamin A Abrahamse wrote
Greta de Groat said:
... there are some gaping [33X] holes.
Agreed. See MRI 1.1C for terms added in brackets which SLC needs. We
don't find other or object very informative . We very much hope
catataloguers will use the option to use exact trade names as SMD
(unit name) rather than repeating a
and Access
Cc: Benjamin A Abrahamse
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
On 10/25/2012 1:20 PM, Benjamin A Abrahamse wrote:
If a library holds software, mightn't a user want to see a list of
all the software the library holds, whether games or word processors
or what have you
Ben Abrahamse suggested for computer games:
336 $a computer $b c $2 rdacontent
336 $a interactive $b i $2 rdacontent
Neither computer nor interactive are RDA content terms, nor do
they seem to me to be content. For a computer game, I would go with
336 $acomputer program.
For patron access, I
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Benjamin A Abrahamse
Sent: October 25, 2012 1:52 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Greta de Groat
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:39 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
We also ran into problems with a book that consisted almost entirely of
stereographic images, but volume isn't
On 23/10/2012 23:25, Brenndorfer, Thomas wrote:
snip
Contradicted by the RDA examples that are compared side-by-side with MARC:
http://www.rdatoolkit.org/examples/MARC
For display and for data input, assuming these RDA examples will be
comparable to actual display and input mechanisms, the
@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of James Weinheimer
Sent: 24 October 2012 07:58
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
On 23/10/2012 23:25, Brenndorfer, Thomas wrote:
snip
Contradicted by the RDA examples that are compared side-by-side with MARC:
http
: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelleher, Martin
Sent: 24 October 2012 10:02
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Well, there does seem to be a large amount
@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Martin
There is a revision process for RDA:
http://www.rda-jsc.org/revision.html
If you wanted to submit a proposal yourself, you would need to discuss doing it
through CILIP, as the relevant member body of JSC.
That's
@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Hi Richard
Well, can't help but think that this looks like the Cataloguing worlds
equivalent of burying under bureaucracy. I was hoping for a populist
revolution via the RDA list! Ah, well, I guess I'll go
/ Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Moore, Richard
Sent: 24 October 2012 11:35
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
I don't think AACR2 used to be revised through populist revolutions either
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelleher, Martin
Sent: 24 October 2012 10:37
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Hi Richard
Well, can't help but think that this looks like the Cataloguing worlds
equivalent of burying under bureaucracy
Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Moore, Richard
Sent: 24 October 2012 11:35
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
I don't think AACR2 used to be revised through populist
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Meehan, Thomas
Sent: 24 October 2012 12:02
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Hello,
I would like to quickly say that I
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kelleher, Martin
[mart...@liverpool.ac.uk]
Sent: October-24-12 8:20 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Hi Tom
Actually, I guess
So, the library in question has already decided that 1) the GMD does not work
for them -- they had to replace standard GMD terms for specific terms of their
own construction, and 2) that they are willing to invest in the effort to
modify their records from the standard in order to meet their
Of Myers, John F.
Sent: 24 October 2012 14:44
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
So, the library in question has already decided that 1) the GMD does not work
for them -- they had to replace standard GMD terms for specific terms of their
own
Martin Kelleher wrote:
Well no - AACR2 has spent about 10 years being revised, ending up with
something I know I'm not especially happy with, and I'm under the
general impression has a lukewarm reception at the best of times... so
maybe that's part of the problem!
After its original
On 24/10/2012 16:33, Kelleher, Martin wrote:
snip
Try buying a television set on Best Buy's website to see this in action
I Put in Dracula DVD on Best buy (54 entries) then I tried Dracula
video!
1 entry:
$14.99 Special Offers:
•Free Shipping
Castlevania: The Dracula X
Kevin tried to be sarcastic in my opinion. However, he forgot that RDA is
basically AACR2 in a new uniform with sophisticated jargon that even LC
instructors have problem with (just came back from the RDA training module
1 part 2). Let's not kid ourselves. RDA people just took AACR2 apart added
Wojciech Siemaszkiewicz wrote:
Kevin tried to be sarcastic in my opinion. However, he forgot that RDA is
basically AACR2 in a new uniform with sophisticated jargon that even
LC instructors have problem with (just came back from the RDA training
module 1 part 2). Let's not kid ourselves. RDA
John Myers said:
So, the library in question has already decided that 1) the GMD does
not work for them -- they had to replace standard GMD terms for
specific terms of their own construction, and 2) that they are
willing to invest in the effort to modify their records from the
standard in order
Richard Moore said:
I don't think AACR2 used to be revised through populist revolutions
either ...
AACR2 was departed from by LCRIs, rule interpretations of other
cataloguing agencies, and what I call cataloguer nullifiction.
I hope cataloguer nullification will hold to a minimum those long
Very cool! Thanks for letting us know.
Joan Wang
Illinois Heartland Library System
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Adam L. Schiff asch...@u.washington.eduwrote:
Another aspect I have not seen mentioned, is that AACR2 style GMDs
only had to be assigned to nonbook materials. RDA 33X must be
I always liked the French way of doing this |h texte imprime.
Beautiful.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Adam L. Schiff
asch...@u.washington.eduwrote:
Another aspect I have not seen mentioned, is that AACR2 style GMDs
only had to be assigned to nonbook materials. RDA 33X must be
assigned
John, vendors can't use OCLC, because OCLC will not allow us to keep
records. SLC must keep records in order to resupply in case of system
crash, or migration from a system which can't do MARC out.
We used to have to keep records for cumulating print products, still
true when we originally
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of J. McRee Elrod
Sent: 23 October 2012 01:35
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Michael Bernhard said:
Has
: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of J. McRee Elrod
Sent: 23 October 2012 01:35
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Michael Bernhard said:
Has anyone suggested that RDA
Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Elizabeth O'Keefe
Sent: 23 October 2012 13:03
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
How about using the $k subfield instead?
Here is the current
8:17 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Well, it would still be nonstandard, plus probably isn't set up in most systems
to act like GMDs. Assuming the cataloguers at our institution decide on such a
direction, we'll probably just keep using $h
@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Has anyone suggested that RDA be revised to provide for a GMD (in
addition to the new 33x fields)? Or are the new rules already so set
in stone that such a change could not be considered? It seems that
many of you
As preliminary studies were undertaken that led to the creation of RDA, it
became obvious that the GMD was an intellectually inconsistent hodgepodge of
terminology. Sound recording managed to encompass an entire content category
of recorded sound. Meanwhile, motion picture and videorecording
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Elizabeth O'Keefe
Sent: October 23, 2012 8:03 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Myers, John F.
Sent: 23 October 2012 14:58
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
But a system that unambiguously
The current GMD isn't fuzzy. It's quite obvious. The material is a sound
recording, microform, or videorecording, etc. There is an additional field
on the records (500, 538) that explains what kind of sound recording or
what kind of microform or what kind of videorecording the material happens
to
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Jerri Swinehart
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:22 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
The current GMD isn't fuzzy. It's quite obvious. The material is a sound
recording, microform
@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Jerri Swinehart
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:22 AM
*To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
*Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
** **
The current GMD isn't fuzzy. It's quite obvious. The material is a sound
recording, microform
There is supposed to be an additional field that clarifies what each GMD is
... It's added all the time to videorecording records etc. Masking phrases
for URLs are also a good way to signal to non-library employed users how to
access an electronic resource. We use, Click here for access.
Thank
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Or, you can just keep it locally, which is what we plan to do.
When staff have a patron standing in front of them, or on the phone, seeking
help, they use the #h [gmd] description to quickly distinguish which type
Thomas Brenndorfer said:
Perhaps the biggest frustration I get in these discussion is the
conflation of issues. A discussion of controlled vocabulary terms
shouldn't be bogged down by display issues.
Display issues? The function of 245$h or 33X would seem to me to
facilitate discovery of
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 1:39 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Steven Arakawa wrote:
Although the $a terms may be incomprehensible to the public, locally
you could
∙ Enriching Lives ∙ Creating Community
-Original Message-
From: Arakawa, Steven [mailto:steven.arak...@yale.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:31 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Kevin, you're right--thanks for pointing
Steven Arakawa wrote:
Kevin, you're right--thanks for pointing this out. The example would have
been helped with an additional 3xx for the primary content/media/carrier
type. However, I still think the fields themselves could be translated into
more comprehensible terms in the OPAC,
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kathleen Lamantia
Sent: October 23, 2012 2:36 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
...@yale.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:31 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Kevin, you're right--thanks for pointing this out. The example would have been
helped with an additional 3xx for the primary content/media/carrier type
You have DVD, Compact Disc and Comic Book as GMD's in 245$h?
This is curious to me, and I wonder what your data source is for records with
these GMD's. None of those are on the 'standard' list of GMDs, and you won't
generally find any of those used as GMD's on MARC from OCLC or LC.
Perhaps
[mailto:rochk...@jhu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 3:34 PM
To: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
Cc: Kathleen Lamantia
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
You have DVD, Compact Disc and Comic Book as GMD's in 245$h?
This is curious to me
[mailto:rochk...@jhu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 3:34 PM
To: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
Cc: Kathleen Lamantia
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
You have DVD, Compact Disc and Comic Book as GMD's in 245$h?
This is curious to me, and I
On 23/10/2012 19:45, J. McRee Elrod wrote:
snip
Thomas Brenndorfer said:
Perhaps the biggest frustration I get in these discussion is the
conflation of issues. A discussion of controlled vocabulary terms
shouldn't be bogged down by display issues.
Display issues? The function of 245$h or 33X
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of James Weinheimer
Sent: October 23, 2012 5:14 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
My experience has shown
Thomas Brenndorfer said:
The focus is on controlled terms and data normalization. That's what
data management is about.
But why use poor terminology which requires translation for display?
Why not use succinct understandable terms to begin with?
Smaller libraries will have little option but
-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kathleen Lamantia
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:02 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Or, you can just keep it locally, which is what we plan to do.
When staff have a patron standing in front of them
Thomas said:
How about not jamming unrelated data into a single element to drive
display needs.
The GMD has its own MARC21 subfield, thus not jammed. It is where it
is needed a early warning, as suggested by Margaret Mann (her example
was literary genre when not clear from the title).
There
Buzz Haughton said:
abandonment of 260 and going to this more complicated way to expressing
publication/copyright year as adding anything in information to the user.
Agreed that it would have been better in terms of consistency with
legagy records to have added 2nd indicators to 260, rather than
-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Buzz Haughton said:
* * *
I also must re-add $h to all of my 245s when cataloging under RDA,
because the collection development librarians want the format included
: October 22, 2012 6:39 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Additional work required by RDA
Has anyone suggested that RDA be revised to provide for a GMD (in addition
to the new 33x fields)? Or are the new rules already so set in stone that
such a change could
Michael Bernhard said:
Has anyone suggested that RDA be revised to provide for a GMD (in
addition to the new 33x fields)?
This would be counter to RDA's effort to have only transcribed
information in transcribed fields. The same reasoning was behind the
abandonment of [sic] or supplying
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