Yes, but... NFPA #24 (Underground Fire Mains), within the scope paragraph,
excludes 13R and 13D systems.
Andrew Steele
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:24 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Big concerns; frying and grilling "inside" will require type I hoods and
suppression systems, and no propane cylinders inside structures.
I don't foresee this being viable.
Sincerely,
Andrew Steele
(Fire Inspector in Ohio)
On Jan 13, 2022 10:08, Ed Kramer via Sprinklerforum
wrote:
I'm
Sorry, should have also said verify its flash and boiling points, then classify
into the appropriate flammable liquid class. But also will need to know
container type and storage configuration.
On Feb 3, 2021 13:21, "Trillium Fire Sprinkler Design Inc. via Sprinklerforum"
wrote:
Can anyone
Look at the model IFC, it now has a distilled spirits section, which will
likely be incorporated into state and local fire codes over the next code
adoption cycles.
On Feb 3, 2021 13:21, "Trillium Fire Sprinkler Design Inc. via Sprinklerforum"
wrote:
Can anyone direct me to design criteria
Similar, I'm aware of an antifreeze system that twice split open the expansion
tank(s). The first two expansion tanks were generic expansion tanks not listed
for antifreeze service. The third (listed/approved) tank has been on for eight
or ten years now, with no issues. Don't underestimate
Also consider looking at the applicable fire code. If the ICC fire code, then
this might be a high-piled combustible storage situation beginning at six feet
(see high-piled storage definition in ICC Fire Code Chapter 2, and then Chapter
32). Pillows and mattress are in section 3203.6, further
IFC Section 5004.2.2.3 (and also similar language in NFPA #30)
Secondary containment for indoor storage areas shall be designed to contain a
spill from the largest vessel plus the design flow volume of fire protection
water calculated to discharge from the fire-extinguishing system over the
My thoughts - cooking oil is a class IIIB combustible liquid; the model
building codes would limit to not more than 13,200 gallons before changing to
an H use group. If the containers are metal, then no issue. If they are
plastic (prohibited for class I flammables and class II and IIIA
Yes, the commentary for sections 903.1 and 903.3.1.1.1 of the IBC explains. I
strongly recommend both the IIC Building and Fire Code commentary books - a lot
of usefully information, along with the actual code language.
Andrew Steele
From: Sprinklerforum
Not a location to skimp on protection. The vehicles (cruisers) are often run
hard, and not without higher maintenance/fire risk. If there is a second floor
above the salleyport, then I would certainly go with the engineers spec; that
and the fact that cars are no longer “metal”, with metal
Ask the AHJ. If explosives, then other NFPA standards, more specific, are
likely to apply.
If 40-ft stands, then it's possible to consider that the fire hydrant might be
used for maintenance flushing/testing of the water service, and/or as a supply
to a fire apparatus taking a position
If you are looking for a guide for fire flow demands, not associated with any
one fire sprinkler system, then look at ICC Fire Code section 507 "Fire
Protection Water Supplies" and ICC Fire Code Appendix "B", Fire-Flow
Requirements for Buildings. These will assist with total fire flow in
If the state or jurisdiction has adopted NFPA #24, then section 6.6 covers
valves.
* Sprinkler “riser” supply - See NFPA #24 Section 6.2.11 for valve
requirements for each of the fire sprinkler system supplies. The typical valve
is a PIV, but other arrangements are also permitted.
*
I would suggest that the best way forward for universal application would be
for AFSA (or anyone) to submit code change proposal for the ICC Building Code.
The proposal would be to add a specific code requirement for the Owner
Certificate. This would fit nicely into ICC Building Code section
A couple of thoughts:
- Any heat producing machinery, (shrink wrap station for example), skylight or
steam pipe in proximity to a sprinkler LINE?
- Is there a pressure relief device anywhere on the system? (My guess, you are
slowly building up system pressure in excess of head test pressure,
It sort of matters; think firefighters flaking out no less than 100-feet of
hose (maybe more) in the stairwell before charging the hose line with standpipe
water. This has to be laid neatly so it does tangle and kink on charging.
Typically the FD will hook to the first outlet BELOW the level
Good example diagrams are in the ICC Fire /Bldg Code Commentary books.
On Aug 8, 2018 18:01, Jim Davidson wrote:
Go to the Building Code for the definition of height above lowest level of FD
Access, if ICC's IBC then call for a code interpretation and if needed ask for
a written response.
The
First thought, is it really ONE building, or three (or two, etc. based on
firewalls). This is a question for the Architect and/or the Building Official,
not the FM. The FM may not know, particularly if they were not involved in
the structural review/permitting process. Or they may know, and
The American Water Works Association Manual of Water Supply Practices has a
publication AWWA document M17 "Installation, Field Testing and Maintenance of
Fire Hydrants". Chapter 6 is flow testing. It doesn't specify a minimum
distance, at least in my 1989 third edition book.
This is a
Accessible to view during the 200-lb hydrostatic acceptance testing (YES)
(before sofit or wall or ceiling is installed to cover pipe), or accessible
permanently (for us, not required).
Andrew Steele
Dayton OH Fire Dept. – Fire Marshal.
From: Sprinklerforum
See FM Global. Their data-sheets are now free and easy for anyone to access:
http://newsroom.fmglobal.com/releases/fm-global-conducts-new-large-scale-fire-tests-on-warehoused-lithium-ion-batteries
Andrew Steele
Dayton FD
From: Sprinklerforum
Assuming that there is no open flame, reflected flame, or smoke associated with
the high ceiling heat conditions, then a camera detection system, positioned in
the building to be environmentally protected – but still with a clear view,
might work. Fike Signifire is one.
Curious as to your
as daytime usage increases. This is about a five to eight pound change,
sometimes it's enough to cause systems with failed check valves and short flow
detection cycles, to alarm.
On Oct 12, 2016 8:38 AM, "Steele, Andrew" <andrew.ste...@daytonohio.gov> wrote:
Check v
the check valve (soldered copper with no unions). I would have
> no problem draining the system, opening up the check valve and repairing it,
> if it is repairable. What do you suggest?
>
>
> On 10/12/2016 5:38 AM, Steele, Andrew wrote:
>>
>> Check valve failure, so tha
Check valve failure, so that the sprinkler leg is no longer isolated?
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Barry Levine
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:01 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Given a choice, OH-2.
Interior “shielded” areas within and under the apparatus are significantly
larger than regular passenger cars (i.e. bigger fires when they do happen).
Risk of fire is also higher, most apparatus have multiple batteries, 110-volt
plug in chargers, lots of add-on, non-OEM
Yes. We, as AHJ during system acceptance testing, are finding multiple heads
with internal glue obstructions. The heads are (and continue to be on plastic
jobs) installed prior to the drop being set into place, with glue subsequently
"dripping" down into the head.
Photo examples if you want
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Steele, Andrew
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 6:09 AM
To: 'sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org'
Subject: RE: Hose Valves for Stage (fire department use)
>From an operations point of vi
>From an operations point of view, specific to my local fire department, it
>would make sense to have the 2-1/2 outlet even when not required.
The 1-1/2 outlet with racked hose would be for incipient fire use by the
occupants, if they so choose.
The 2-1/2 outlet would be used by the responding
I would suggest that the thinking for hotel/motel uses only was that temporary
stay occupants wouldn't have opportunity to install significant amounts of
combustible materials into a bathroom. However home/apartment occupants do.
As a Fire Official, I've seen some pretty significant fires
If the trailer is "permanently installed" and not moved around, then yes,
sprinklers are required. No different than a constructed room with ceiling
causing overhead obstruction. If not "permanent", then overhead density needs
to be adequate for the trailer.
2013 edition of NFPA #13, see 4.1
What type of nozzles does the local fire department use, and what
pressure would they want on the tip? Size and length of the hose line
on their standpipe packs?
A.Steele
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
This is a common problem, and in my opinion, the occurrences of damage
won't go away even with a pre-action system - in fact, it probably would
get worse. Furthermore, a pre-action system would only complicate
things, increase install and service costs while decreasing the intended
level of
Another consideration is wind. We (Dayton, Ohio) have seen several
ordinary apt. buildings with wet pipe freeze/breaks at the second floor
and third floor levels of three story buildings with full attics, where
the pipe was installed in an INTERIOR wall between well heated
apartments. Exterior
My questions would be:
1) Is this system installed in place of sprinklers, if so, then YES to reserve
cylinders.
2) If a fire develops, how much ordinary combustibles are present? Will the
fire be not only controlled, but extinguished within 3 to 5 mins of agent
release, or is a more deep
Open sided construction creates an exposure problem to firefighters who might
need to access control valves, if/during a fully involved active fire. We had
a warehouse fully involved (1987 Sherwin Williams), large areas of roof
collapse, where the sprinkler mains needed to be shut down to
There are some other building code (and possibly even insurance risk
assessment) issues that are likely to arise when using a NFPA #13R system; a
13R system IS NOT a fully protected building. For example, ICC Table 508
required separation of occupancies does not recognize 13R systems, so if
I would suggest running a quick calc showing the theoretical
flow/pressure from the inspector's test and the residual pressure at the
riser, and how that compares to the system demand. Or think of it this
way, the inspectors test flow (via a single 1/2 outlet) should always be
less than the
This most likely is from the International Fire Code, Chapter 5, Fire
Service Features, (G) Section 507 Fire Protection Water Supplies.
Subsection 507.3 says fire flow requirements for building or portions
of building and facilities shall be determined by an approved method.
In Ohio, this has been
Suggestion - try the AHJ/Building Department (open records request) to
see if and when originally installed, they permitted the installation,
and what, if any, of the original plans and specifications they might
still have in their files.
Andrew Steele
Strategic Programs and Safety
Dayton Fire
Group, any thoughts or recommendations for unexplained sprinkler head
activations?
Situation - one story church, built in 1994. Sprinkler installed late
spring summer in Dayton, Ohio. City static water pressure is 135-lbs.
200-lb hydro tests at system acceptance. There is a pressure relief
We had a 17-story residential high-rise fumigated three or four years
ago; the fumigant was toxic to humans, so building had to be
sealed/guarded and we (municipal fire department) were apprised and
cautioned not to enter without full SCBA, etc.
To make this work, they had to temporarily
42 matches
Mail list logo
