Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, Have these large crops in your garden been tested for nutrients? No. They're not abnormally large, at least, I don't think so. There are sunflower plants growing in someone else's garden in Abbotsford that are at least as tall as mine. Last year, our maize never grew taller than about 50 cm. I'm absolutely delighted that we have normal maize this year. The cabbage hasn't fared very well (lots of aphids) and every fruit tree (except our apple) dropped its fruit. If you'd seen the soil we started with and how it looks now, you'd be pretty impressed, I think! Should I be concerned? I don't think so Robert. It might be a concern if you hadn't been rebuilding your soil, or even building it from nothing. Without stable soil conditions (if there is such a thing) and a control for comparison there are just too many variables to isolate this single CO2 factor, which is likely to be very slight (at least for now). The great crops you're getting (trees next year?) are a predictable result of your fertilisation work, compost, sweat, sunlight and water. Should be less sweat every year. Meanwhile, strength to yer arm! :-) Anyway, when chemists look at plants and/or soil and start talking about nitrogen, beware!!! For a start, nitrogen may be a plant nutrient, but it isn't a people nutrient. Do you know how they measure protein content in crops? They don't, they measure the nitrogen content instead and multiply by, by what, 6.14, IIRC, the ratio of N in protein, and, hey, that's the protein content. Only it turns out that the more N in the form of NPK chemical fertiliser was used to grow the crop (or maybe just pump it up and paint it green) the more likely it is that a lot of the alleged protein content will be nitrates and nitrites and other semi-synthesised stuff that's not only not exactly nutritious it can be downright toxic. The N in your compost, however, is different: it doesn't deplete the soil O/M, it doesn't wreck the soil pH, nor the soil life, it doesn't make dead pools in the Gulf of Mexico or anything like that, it just steadily becomes available to the roots as the plants need it, and, along with all the other effects of your compost - primarily biological effects - it helps the plants build real protein. But the difference will not only not be apparent to said chemist, he'll probably deny it exists, thus flying in the face of a large amount of scientific evidence, and a vast amount of other evidence. Of course there are chemists and chemists, just the same as there are fertilisers and fertilisers. All best Keith robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Separation
Hello Dave Keith Virgin oil was the first test Wvo next. 1 litre bottles. I.m in the process of stepping up now. This was the first two batched over 1 litre. Uh-huh, let me guess, I'm doing quite well so far - one-litre PET soft-drink bottles, just put it in, shake it 3.5 times or whatever and it's ready an hour later, or something like that anyway? Just used 6.5 grams, no titration. Washed as usual and it did come out nice. What does as usual mean? And nice? Did you do this? Try the wash test: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Gotta do a ph test Of what, the biodiesel? How will you do that? then filter and run with it But how far? Dozens of trouble-free miles? (No I didn't make it up.) No need for titration, just shake-it-all-up in a bottle - it's hopeless Dave, you're accelerating down a cul-de-sac. Before you hit the brick wall at the end, go back to the beginning and do it right. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Keep going. Let's put it this way (not for the first time): It's you vs the mighty ExxonMobil - and you win! And it's better stuff too! Or at least it should be. Why cut corners when it's so easy to do it properly? Best wishes Keith Thanks Dave - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separation Hello Dave I've done a couple batches of WVO. One 11 ltr and another 8 ltr. Both with 6.5 grams methoxide mix. Did you titrate it or did you just use 6.5 grams as some people still advise? Did you start with virgin oil first? Both batches settled completely within about 1 hour with no more settling even though I let them settle for over 12 hours. Sure there was more settling, even if you couldn't perceive it. I think you'd soon see the difference if you tried to wash it after 1 hour as opposed to 12 hours settling. I've read that it takes about at least 12hrs to get complete separation. That's right. Am I doing something wrong or am I going overboard. Try the wash test: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Best wishes Keith I've got a marked 100ml flask and both times I'm getting about 12ml of glyserol. Dave ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
Organically grown crops tend to have their nitrogen in complete proteins. Plants grown with large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer tend to have a certain content of free amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) in the plant sap which the plant-eating (juice sucking) insects find very convenient. It saves them considerable energy which they would otherwise have to use to chew leaves etc. and digest proteins. Doug Woodard St. Catahrines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Keith Addison wrote: [snip] Anyway, when chemists look at plants and/or soil and start talking about nitrogen, beware!!! For a start, nitrogen may be a plant nutrient, but it isn't a people nutrient. Do you know how they measure protein content in crops? They don't, they measure the nitrogen content instead and multiply by, by what, 6.14, IIRC, the ratio of N in protein, and, hey, that's the protein content. Only it turns out that the more N in the form of NPK chemical fertiliser was used to grow the crop (or maybe just pump it up and paint it green) the more likely it is that a lot of the alleged protein content will be nitrates and nitrites and other semi-synthesised stuff that's not only not exactly nutritious it can be downright toxic. The N in your compost, however, is different: it doesn't deplete the soil O/M, it doesn't wreck the soil pH, nor the soil life, it doesn't make dead pools in the Gulf of Mexico or anything like that, it just steadily becomes available to the roots as the plants need it, and, along with all the other effects of your compost - primarily biological effects - it helps the plants build real protein. But the difference will not only not be apparent to said chemist, he'll probably deny it exists, thus flying in the face of a large amount of scientific evidence, and a vast amount of other evidence. Of course there are chemists and chemists, just the same as there are fertilisers and fertilisers. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Economist make sense (except for Krugman)]
robert luis rabello a écrit : Joe Street wrote: Indeed . . . The roots of the new conflict originate in the ashes of WWII. ... that itself originates in the ashes of WWI (traité of Versailles) that itself (concerning western europe) came from the franco-prussian war of 1870 and the napoleonic wars...and so ones. It appears that wars make more problems than they solve And each time, it's nationalism and big corporations interests that led to war frantz from france (EU) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] deacidification
Hello Ian Hi Keith This is probably the best stuff avalable in my small town, as it is from a food shop renound for quality food. :-) It comes as a surprise to quite a lot of biodieselers when they start titrating restaurant oil and quickly find out which ones really produce quality food. 6ml 0.1% NaOH solution oil is not the product of a quality restaurant, sorry to say. Yes I did mean deacidification as per JTF site. I have 80 litres in 4 drums, I took three samples heated them to test for water There's probably some water in oil like that. The higher the titration level the more difficulty water will cause. and carried out the test three times I even tried different isoprpyl as some of what I had was quite old, but still the same result. I then tested some oil from a friends home frier and found it to be around 3.5grpl, About the upper limit, beyond that novices start having problems. (For his sake rather than yours, I'd suggest you tell your friend to change his oil more often or not to make it so hot.) them a further test on brand new SVO and only 1 drop caused a change to pink? Given that my testing is accurate Probably it's accurate. should I persisit with single stage or try deacidification? The only 2 things that I question of my testing is the 1/1000 mixture was cold, although the test was carried out with the beaker standing in warm water and the phenolphalein was made up with Ethanol? I think it always is. It should be okay as long as it's not old. For the 0.1% NaOH solution, next time pour some into another beaker and stand that in warm water too. Anyway, 6ml titration oil is feasible once you have some experience, there shouldn't be any need to deacidify it. Try deacidifying it if you like, it takes a little practice (gently!), but even if it works it will only have added another variable as an obstacle in your learning curve. I'm sorry, I've lost track - did you start with virgin oil tests? If not, I suggest you go back and do that a few times: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then try the 9.5 gm/litre WVO. Do small 1-litre test batches. If you don't succeed, then mix virgin oil with the WVO until you've reduced the titration result to say 2.5 to 3 ml and try that. If you haven't got a blender you could rig one of these or something similar: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor Or you can use PET bottles - mix the methoxide first, do it this way: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth Pre-heat the oil to 55 deg C (131 deg F), funnel it into the PET bottle, add the methoxide, screw the lid on tightly and shake violently for a minute or so. Then stand it in hot water and maintain the temperature at 55 deg C. Shake it again hard every five minutes, continue for at least an hour, preferably two hours. Please remember that your main goal isn't to process that 80 litres of oil, it's to learn how to make high-quality biodiesel. If you go about it that way you'll get better results with that oil or any oil. Best wishes Keith Your thoughts would be appreciated Cheers Ian Hello Ian Hi Guys I've just tested the WVO I've managed to obtain and tested out at 6grpl this plus 3.5 makes 9.5. Is this a candidate for deacidification? What do you mean by deacidification? Do you mean using an acid-base process instead of a single-stage base process, or do you mean this, or something similar? Deacidifying WVO http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#deacid Deacidification is a standard step in processing raw (new) oils for sale and consumption. The deacidifying process above is basically the same but without the need for a centrifuge. If you mean an acid-base process, any oil is a good candidate for that. Anyway, oil titrating at 6 g/l is probably borderline for a novice attempting his first test batch with WVO. Standard WVO, if there is such a thing, is usually considered as around 3-3.5 titration. Try it if you like but you might struggle. Strictly speaking, it shouldn't be 6grpl but 6 ml of 0.1% NaOH solution, which indeed translates to 9.5 grpl. How did you titrate it? Best wishes Keith Cheers Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
Quite right Doug. Best wishes Keith Organically grown crops tend to have their nitrogen in complete proteins. Plants grown with large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer tend to have a certain content of free amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) in the plant sap which the plant-eating (juice sucking) insects find very convenient. It saves them considerable energy which they would otherwise have to use to chew leaves etc. and digest proteins. Doug Woodard St. Catahrines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Keith Addison wrote: [snip] Anyway, when chemists look at plants and/or soil and start talking about nitrogen, beware!!! For a start, nitrogen may be a plant nutrient, but it isn't a people nutrient. Do you know how they measure protein content in crops? They don't, they measure the nitrogen content instead and multiply by, by what, 6.14, IIRC, the ratio of N in protein, and, hey, that's the protein content. Only it turns out that the more N in the form of NPK chemical fertiliser was used to grow the crop (or maybe just pump it up and paint it green) the more likely it is that a lot of the alleged protein content will be nitrates and nitrites and other semi-synthesised stuff that's not only not exactly nutritious it can be downright toxic. The N in your compost, however, is different: it doesn't deplete the soil O/M, it doesn't wreck the soil pH, nor the soil life, it doesn't make dead pools in the Gulf of Mexico or anything like that, it just steadily becomes available to the roots as the plants need it, and, along with all the other effects of your compost - primarily biological effects - it helps the plants build real protein. But the difference will not only not be apparent to said chemist, he'll probably deny it exists, thus flying in the face of a large amount of scientific evidence, and a vast amount of other evidence. Of course there are chemists and chemists, just the same as there are fertilisers and fertilisers. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] What has the world come to
Hi All, I just read where the great Pat Robertson leading his flock on the 700 Club has suggested that the U.S. should assassinate President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. I'm mean really when supposedly religious men advocate murder I'm just completely disgusted. BTW the "reasoning" behind this is that Chavez is a dicator (though democratically elected by a large majority) is a communist ( has spoken to Fidel Castro)and has Islamic terrorist connections (he's catholic). Does any of this sound familar? Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Quite a prolife christian, huh. Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All, I just read where the great Pat Robertson leading his flock on the 700 Club has suggested that the U.S. should assassinate President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. I'm mean really when supposedly religious men advocate murder I'm just completely disgusted. BTW the reasoning behind this is that Chavez is a dicator (though democratically elected by a large majority) is a communist ( has spoken to Fidel Castro) and has Islamic terrorist connections (he's catholic). Does any of this sound familar? Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] lye
Hi Don; The comment about walmart, I knew would be humorous to some on the list but it was serious too. There is much interest on this list about fighting globalization and avoiding giving any support to large multinational corporations. Many folks I come across seem to think biodiesel is a license to go on with the same world view and attitude but just for cheaper and better for the air (as a side benefit almost). I hope you didn't feel stung by my little joke, and welcome to the list BTW. Try to find a local chemical supply house. Look in the yellow pages under chemical. Avoid things like drain cleaner which are not pure enough for the BD process. You can find small quantities of lye intended for soap making which are pure but cost more than you should be paying. Also avoid buying a huge bulk quantity which may seem the best economy, because you will need to use it before it absorbs moisture and degrades (gets kinda chalky white). Most commonly (around here) it looks like little spheres that are cut in half , white but not paper white,(that is old stuff) it is kind of translucent a little bit. Same goes for the alcohol. It must be very pure and dry (no water content) Some folks seem to be getting it from shops that cater to performance cars and drag racing. I also found a supply in the phone book yellow pages. Support small local shops if possible. I know this is a bit of a goofy statement when it comes to chemicals that are manufactured far away most likely by a huge company who doesn't have the environment as the number one priority but walmart is just pure evil. Joe don lyon wrote: Joe what I was looking for was a little help on how to make this bio-diesel fuel. I haven't looked at walmart for any additives to use. I am planning on looking at our local hardware store. I will be looking at the methonol alcohol and lye. I still don't know how to test any batch made. Also the used steak oil I picked up has oven cleaner mixed in it. Does that hurt anything? Thanks for your help Joe. God Bless, Donald God Bless, Donald Lyon From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] lye Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:38:49 -0400 How can you be on this list and still be shopping at WALMART!!! Heaven help us. Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: first can I use red devil lye that is used for drain cleaner is it pure lye, it is in granular form should i grind it? also is denatured alcohol what you buy in wal-mart buy the quart ok to use for my test batches and training? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
Doug wrote: Organically grown crops tend to have their nitrogen in complete proteins. Plants grown with large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer tend to have a certain content of free amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) in the plant sap which the plant-eating (juice sucking) insects find very convenient. It saves them considerable energy which they would otherwise have to use to chew leaves etc. and digest proteins. The artice I quoted (Planet of the Plants By Glenn SchererPosted July 25, 2005) also said the things below about insects eating more because of nutrients dropping. I hope this is also something we can deal with. Marilyn CO2-induced nitrogen deficiency in plants has already been shown to affect herbivorous insects and the carnivores that eat them. To make up for the plunge in plant protein, some plant-eating insects must dramatically increase their intake of vegetation. But unable to keep up with the need to eat enough food, some bugs suffer increased malnutrition, starvation, predation, and mortality, writes evolutionary biologist David Seaborg in a recent issue of Earth Island Journal. When Western Michigan University entomologist David Karowe fed cabbage white butterfly caterpillars leaves grown in an atmosphere with double the earth's current CO2 levels, the insects ate about 40 percent more plant matter than under current atmospheric conditions. But they still couldn't meet their dietary needs. Their growth rate slowed by about 10 percent and their adult size was smaller. Peter Stiling at the University of South Florida made similar findings for leaf miners, insects that eat out tiny caverns in leaves where they live. When they took up housekeeping in CO2-enriched leaves, the insects had to eat out 20 percent larger leaf homes. But the bugs were still twice as likely to die of starvation as insects living at today's CO2 levels. As serious as these results seem, no one should jump to conclusions, says William Mattson, chief insect ecologist with the U.S. Forest Service in Rhinelander, Wis. He has spent the past five years monitoring 10 insect species and found they react differently to raised CO2 levels and lowered nitrogen levels, with some showing no change and others harmed, and no clear pattern yet in sight. He worries, though, that CO2 fertilization and nitrogen depletion could combine to alter insect balances in unexpected ways. For example, the leaf miners described above were also four times more likely to be killed by parasitic wasps -- bad news for the miners but good news for the wasps. In another study, aphids reproduced 10 to 15 percent faster in enriched CO2 atmospheres -- good for the aphids, but bad for the crops they infest. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
I've got an idea about the crop food, that consist in this sentence scheme: produce renevable energy - carbon dioxide+NOx+SOx and so on mixed ashes with other nutrient derived solid substance after fermentation good quality crop food. Bye Ezio Quite right Doug. Best wishes Keith Organically grown crops tend to have their nitrogen in complete proteins. Plants grown with large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer tend to have a certain content of free amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) in the plant sap which the plant-eating (juice sucking) insects find very convenient. It saves them considerable energy which they would otherwise have to use to chew leaves etc. and digest proteins. Doug Woodard St. Catahrines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Keith Addison wrote: [snip] Anyway, when chemists look at plants and/or soil and start talking about nitrogen, beware!!! For a start, nitrogen may be a plant nutrient, but it isn't a people nutrient. Do you know how they measure protein content in crops? They don't, they measure the nitrogen content instead and multiply by, by what, 6.14, IIRC, the ratio of N in protein, and, hey, that's the protein content. Only it turns out that the more N in the form of NPK chemical fertiliser was used to grow the crop (or maybe just pump it up and paint it green) the more likely it is that a lot of the alleged protein content will be nitrates and nitrites and other semi-synthesised stuff that's not only not exactly nutritious it can be downright toxic. The N in your compost, however, is different: it doesn't deplete the soil O/M, it doesn't wreck the soil pH, nor the soil life, it doesn't make dead pools in the Gulf of Mexico or anything like that, it just steadily becomes available to the roots as the plants need it, and, along with all the other effects of your compost - primarily biological effects - it helps the plants build real protein. But the difference will not only not be apparent to said chemist, he'll probably deny it exists, thus flying in the face of a large amount of scientific evidence, and a vast amount of other evidence. Of course there are chemists and chemists, just the same as there are fertilisers and fertilisers. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Libero Flat, sempre a 4 Mega a 19,95 euro al mese! Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process - patent
Joe: Here is a link to the patent http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeisels2=electrodeOS=biodeisel+AND+electrodeRS=biodeisel+AND+electrode United States Patent Application 20050120621 Kind Code A1 Lawson, J. Alan ; et al. June 9, 2005 Chemical synthesis method comprising electro-catalytic reaction and apparatus therefor Abstract Methods, systems, and devices are provided for synthesizing one or more chemical products from a renewable oil, comprising the step of flowing a fluid which comprises a renewable oil through a high voltage electrical field effective to catalyze a chemical reaction involving the renewable oil. Examples of renewable oils include vegetable oils, animal fats, bio-oils, and combinations thereof. In one embodiment, the fluid further comprises an alcohol mixed with the oil, and the chemical reaction produces biodiesel and an etherified glycerin. In one embodiment, the biodiesel is further reacted to produce acetic acid. From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) nowalternative biodiesel processDate:Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:06:46 -0400Hi Bob;Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide.If it is true what a nice advancement.According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential.Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post.The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?)snip -Hi There:The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOHand running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.The only other byproduct is hydrogen.Very cool, just a littlescary.http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7Raysnip-The patent reference does not appear to be the right one.Ray??Joebob allen wrote:Joe Street wrote:Howdy Pardnerbob allen wrote:Howdy Joe (I just had to write "Hey Joe" before.its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.)Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me "where you goin with that gun in your hand" I say "This is my rifle and this is my gun,This is for shooting and this is for fun"Ok thanks for your corrections and information below.As a chemist you are a boon to this list.Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go?Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere).I was also wondering about using intense UV light.Any thoughts?To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things:Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further.Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods.To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel processore
I am looking for a biodiesel processor to produce up to two million liters a year. Ive been to the Engera site there largest p4000 processor looks good but is there a cheaper skid mounted processor Available. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Propane Water Heating (was Lignin crop redidue breakdown)
Brian, my summer place is also in the forest. I'd rather use solar directly than harvest wood any day. It's simply the time saved and physical effort expended. I do cut trees when I have to, and wood is also our primary heat source at the summer place, not that it needs a lot given the seasonal use (May to October). You can definitely go with the closed dual loop system. I usually recommend the in- line system to people first because it is cheap and relatively easy to install and maintain. Payback on the batch heater was under a year. Payback on dual loop systems (for hot water anyway) is typically five to ten years. The batch heater can be done in a weekend as a do-it-yourself project. Closed dual loop systems usually have to be done by professionals, and take considerably more effort and materials. However, it sounds like you have a big head start over most folks in this area. By freezing season I mean real hard frosts. A dip below freezing won't hurt the system - it has enough thermal mass to handle that. Ground water hereabouts is about 6 degrees C. I figure if the pre-heater isn't doing better than that most days in the morning (our biggest hot water usage time), the season is over for another year; not gaining anything from it at that point. By the way, damn cold here is below minus 40 (C or F). From -40 to -20 C (-40 to 0 F) is cold, -20 C to 0 C (0 to 30 F) is a nice winter day. Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the helpful feedback Darryl. I followed your advice and read the archived email http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg25952.html and I am indeed intrigued with the simple solar water pre-heater. Hmm, I know I've written something more detailed - let me know if you want me to dig for it.) I need to learn how to better search the JTF archives anyway. But, thanks for the offer. This does give me direction We use a simple batch pre-heater from May to October (non-freezing season here) and it cuts our natural gas use almost to zero. It is based on a surplus hot water tank and a patio door. Our freezing season is not all that far off. In the high country of Northern New Mexico it gets damn cold at night. Just the same I know the technology for creating closed loop systems using antifreeze and heat exchangers. On top of that I already have the radiant floor plumbing installed and have been itching to get started on a multiple alternative energy systems for heating the fluid. My first energy source will be wood heat since we live in the forest, but I always had it in the back of my mind to supplement the system with solar energy. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] US shuts down Somalia internet
US shuts down Somalia internet The US believes the two companies also support Bin Laden Somalia's only internet company and a key telecoms business have been forced to close because the United States suspects them of terrorist links. I would say it is very depressing and if I could find any stronger word than that I would say it BBC correspondent Hassan Barise The two firms, Somalia Internet Company and al-Barakaat, both appear on a US list of organisations accused of funnelling money to the al-Qaeda network and featured in a UN Security Council resolution. Both companies have stated they are not linked to terrorists. Along with denying all internet access to Somalis, the closures have severely restricted international telephone lines and shut down vitally needed money transfer facilities. Correspondents say the closure of the companies will have a devastating effect on the country, which desperately needs the services they provide. Desperation Hassan Barise in Mogadishu told the BBC's Network Africa programme more than 80% of Somalis depended on money they receive from relatives outside the country. He said all internet cafes had now shut down and international phone lines run by two other companies were failing to cope with the extra pressure of calls. He also pointed out that the United Nations, local and international aid agencies, as well as the government itself all relied heavily on internet access, now denied. "I would say it is very depressing and if I could find any stronger word than that I would say it," he said. He added the impact would be felt even more strongly because the cuts have come during the holy month of Ramadan. Shutdown On 7 November, the Bush administration released the list of 62 organisations and individuals accused of financial links with Osama Bin Laden. Reports say the Somali Internet Company was forced to close when it realised that its international gateway had been cut off. Al-Barakaat, Somalia's largest company with interests in telecommunications, banking and postal services, closed its financial businesses after its assets were frozen. Its international telephone service was then shut down when its international gateway - run jointly by ATT and British Telecom - was also cut off. The company, which has 600 shareholders, is the largest employer in Somalia. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Somalis depend on it to transfer money throughout the world. Somalis living abroad use it to send money to their relatives back home as there are no other banking systems in Somalia since the downfall of the Siad Barre regime in 1991. Somalia's prime minister has issued a decree appointing a special committee to investigate al-Barakaat, as well as all other remittance companies. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1672220.stm___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
robert luis rabello wrote: bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Economist make sense (except for Krugman)]
Not everyone thinks that Steve Levitt is infallible: http://maxspeak.org/mt/archives/001540.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
Doug wrote: "Organically grown crops tend to have their nitrogen in complete proteins. Plants grown with large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer tend to have a certain content of free amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) in the plant sap which the plant-eating (juice sucking) insects find very convenient. It saves them considerable energy which they would otherwise have to use to chew leaves etc. and digest proteins." The artice I quoted (Planet of the Plants By Glenn SchererPosted July 25, 2005) also said the things below about insects eating more because of nutrients dropping. I hope this is also something we can deal with. Marilyn "CO2-induced nitrogen deficiency in plants has already been shown to affect herbivorous insects and the carnivores that eat them. To make up for the plunge in plant protein, some plant-eating insects must dramatically increase their intake of vegetation. But unable to keep up with the need to eat enough food, some bugs suffer increased malnutrition, starvation, predation, and mortality, writes evolutionary biologist David Seaborg in a recent issue of Earth Island Journal. When Western Michigan University entomologist David Karowe fed cabbage white butterfly caterpillars leaves grown in an atmosphere with double the earth's current CO2 levels, the insects ate about 40 percent more plant matter than under current atmospheric conditions. But they still couldn't meet their dietary needs. Their growth rate slowed by about 10 percent and their adult size was smaller. Peter Stiling at the University of South Florida made similar findings for leaf miners, insects that eat out tiny caverns in leaves where they live. When they took up housekeeping in CO2-enriched leaves, the insects had to eat out 20 percent larger leaf homes. But the bugs were still twice More CO2 More vgetation This concept is very important to develope the crop-food. Sincerily Ezio as likely to die of starvation as insects living at today's CO2 levels. As serious as these results seem, no one should jump to conclusions, says William Mattson, chief insect ecologist with the U.S. Forest Service in Rhinelander, Wis. He has spent the past five years monitoring 10 insect species and found they react differently to raised CO2 levels and lowered nitrogen levels, with some showing no change and others harmed, and no clear pattern yet in sight. He worries, though, that CO2 fertilization and nitrogen depletion could combine to alter insect balances in unexpected ways. For example, the leaf miners described above were also four times more likely to be killed by parasitic wasps -- bad news for the miners but good news for the wasps. In another study, aphids reproduced 10 to 15 percent faster in enriched CO2 atmospheres -- good for the aphids, but bad for the crops they infest."___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Libero Flat, sempre a 4 Mega a 19,95 euro al mese! Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Robertson / Chavez story on CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/robertson.chavez/ -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . . That man is no Christian. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson / Chavez story on CNN
What mental hospital let this Robertson out too early? Does US not have the money to treat their basket cases in proper facilities? Hakan At 13:26 23/08/2005, you wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/robertson.chavez/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
Comments below... Doug wrote: Organically grown crops tend to have their nitrogen in complete proteins. Plants grown with large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer tend to have a certain content of free amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) in the plant sap which the plant-eating (juice sucking) insects find very convenient. It saves them considerable energy which they would otherwise have to use to chew leaves etc. and digest proteins. The artice I quoted (Planet of the Plants By Glenn SchererPosted July 25, 2005) also said the things below about insects eating more because of nutrients dropping. I hope this is also something we can deal with. Marilyn CO2-induced nitrogen deficiency in plants has already been shown to affect herbivorous insects and the carnivores that eat them. To make up for the plunge in plant protein, some plant-eating insects must dramatically increase their intake of vegetation. But unable to keep up with the need to eat enough food, some bugs suffer increased malnutrition, starvation, predation, and mortality, writes evolutionary biologist David Seaborg in a recent issue of Earth Island Journal. When Western Michigan University entomologist David Karowe fed cabbage white butterfly caterpillars leaves grown in an atmosphere with double the earth's current CO2 levels, the insects ate about 40 percent more plant matter than under current atmospheric conditions. But they still couldn't meet their dietary needs. Their growth rate slowed by about 10 percent and their adult size was smaller. Peter Stiling at the University of South Florida made similar findings for leaf miners, insects that eat out tiny caverns in leaves where they live. When they took up housekeeping in CO2-enriched leaves, the insects had to eat out 20 percent larger leaf homes. But the bugs were still twice More CO2 More vgetation Maybe so, but what sort of vegetation? As Marilyn is saying, you get twice as much of half as little and you end up with not enough. This concept is very important to develope the crop-food. The damage excess CO2 from global warming will cause is certainly very important. In fact, as things stand now there is NO shortage of food, there is more food **per capita** than there has ever been before, more than enough for everybody. The answer to the billion-odd people in the world today who don't have enough food and the further billion-off who're on the brink of it is NOT to produce more food, it's to dump the inequitable world economic system that claims to create wealth but in fact creates poverty and hunger. Best wishes Keith Sincerily Ezio as likely to die of starvation as insects living at today's CO2 levels. As serious as these results seem, no one should jump to conclusions, says William Mattson, chief insect ecologist with the U.S. Forest Service in Rhinelander, Wis. He has spent the past five years monitoring 10 insect species and found they react differently to raised CO2 levels and lowered nitrogen levels, with some showing no change and others harmed, and no clear pattern yet in sight. He worries, though, that CO2 fertilization and nitrogen depletion could combine to alter insect balances in unexpected ways. For example, the leaf miners described above were also four times more likely to be killed by parasitic wasps -- bad news for the miners but good news for the wasps. In another study, aphids reproduced 10 to 15 percent faster in enriched CO2 atmospheres -- good for the aphids, but bad for the crops they infest. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
robert luis rabello wrote: bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. I think he did that himself already, long before this. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif Pat Robertson Says US Should Kill Venezuela's Chavez, AP Says http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1086sid=aHRr2Ul10eC0refer =latin_america Or: http://snipurl.com/h5tp Pat Robertson calls for Chavez's assassination http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=newscat=8id=347057 Pat Robertson calls for assassination of Hugo Chavez http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-robertson-_x.htm US preacher Pat Robertson calls upon the USA to kill President ... http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/16029_Chavez.html Pat Robertson Needs To Update His Website http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/23/robertson-update/ Life has become more and more cheap in the society we live in. But God says you shall not murder. - Pat Robertson Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US shuts down Somalia internet
Why such an old story Michael? 23 November, 2001. I remember that happening and I'm not sure what happened since, but it seems to be working. http://somalinet.com/dir/ Somali - SomaliNet - Somalia: - Internet Directory http://www.arabji.com/Somalia/ Somalia Internet Guide - Somalia's Portal, Search Engine, Directory Yellow Pages Best wishes Keith US shuts down Somalia internet The US believes the two companies also support Bin Laden Somalia's only internet company and a key telecoms business have been forced to close because the United States suspects them of terrorist links. I would say it is very depressing and if I could find any stronger word than that I would say it BBC correspondent Hassan Barise The two firms, Somalia Internet Company and al-Barakaat, both appear on a US list of organisations accused of funnelling money to the al-Qaeda network and featured in a UN Security Council resolution. Both companies have stated they are not linked to terrorists. Along with denying all internet access to Somalis, the closures have severely restricted international telephone lines and shut down vitally needed money transfer facilities. Correspondents say the closure of the companies will have a devastating effect on the country, which desperately needs the services they provide. Desperation Hassan Barise in Mogadishu told the BBC's Network Africa programme more than 80% of Somalis depended on money they receive from relatives outside the country. He said all internet cafes had now shut down and international phone lines run by two other companies were failing to cope with the extra pressure of calls. He also pointed out that the United Nations, local and international aid agencies, as well as the government itself all relied heavily on internet access, now denied. I would say it is very depressing and if I could find any stronger word than that I would say it, he said. He added the impact would be felt even more strongly because the cuts have come during the holy month of Ramadan. Shutdown On 7 November, the Bush administration released the list of 62 organisations and individuals accused of financial links with Osama Bin Laden. Reports say the Somali Internet Company was forced to close when it realised that its international gateway had been cut off. Al-Barakaat, Somalia's largest company with interests in telecommunications, banking and postal services, closed its financial businesses after its assets were frozen. Its international telephone service was then shut down when its international gateway - run jointly by ATT and British Telecom - was also cut off. The company, which has 600 shareholders, is the largest employer in Somalia. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Somalis depend on it to transfer money throughout the world. Somalis living abroad use it to send money to their relatives back home as there are no other banking systems in Somalia since the downfall of the Siad Barre regime in 1991. Somalia's prime minister has issued a decree appointing a special committee to investigate al-Barakaat, as well as all other remittance companies. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1672220.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/africa/1672220.stm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Sorry about that, It was also on both CNN and Yahoo. I'm wondering if those statements are a violation of the Patriot Act. Tom Irwin From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:36:15 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come toClif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... ClifI JUST heard it on NPR!Here's the quote:http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xmlI've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . .That man is no Christian.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US shuts down Somalia internet
...sorry Keith. It was part of a discussion I had with a friend. I became really switched-on about it,looked it up and posted it without looking at the date. MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why such an old story Michael? 23 November, 2001.I remember that happening and I'm not sure what happened since, but it seems to be working.http://somalinet.com/dir/Somali - SomaliNet - Somalia: - Internet Directoryhttp://www.arabji.com/Somalia/Somalia Internet Guide - Somalia's Portal, Search Engine, Directory Yellow PagesBest wishesKeithUS shuts down Somalia internetThe US believes the two companies also support Bin LadenSomalia's only internet company and a key telecoms business have been forced to close because the United States suspects them of terrorist links.I would say it is very depressing and if I could find any stronger word than that I would say itBBC correspondent Hassan BariseThe two firms, Somalia Internet Company and al-Barakaat, both appear on a US list of organisations accused of funnelling money to the al-Qaeda network and featured in a UN Security Council resolution.Both companies have stated they are not linked to terrorists.Along with denying all internet access to Somalis, the closures have severely restricted international telephone lines and shut down vitally needed money transfer facilities.Correspondents say the closure of the companies will have a devastating effect on the country, which desperately needs the services they provide.DesperationHassan Barise in Mogadishu told the BBC's Network Africa programme more than 80% of Somalis depended on money they receive from relatives outside the country.He said all internet cafes had now shut down and international phone lines run by two other companies were failing to cope with the extra pressure of calls.He also pointed out that the United Nations, local and international aid agencies, as well as the government itself all relied heavily on internet access, now denied."I would say it is very depressing and if I could find any stronger word than that I would say it," he said.He added the impact would be felt even more strongly because the cuts have come during the holy month of Ramadan.ShutdownOn 7 November, the Bush administration released the list of 62 organisations and individuals accused of financial links with Osama Bin Laden.Reports say the Somali Internet Company was forced to close when it realised that its international gateway had been cut off.Al-Barakaat, Somalia's largest company with interests in telecommunications, banking and postal services, closed its financial businesses after its assets were frozen.Its international telephone service was then shut down when its international gateway - run jointly by ATT and British Telecom - was also cut off.The company, which has 600 shareholders, is the largest employer in Somalia.Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Somalis depend on it to transfer money throughout the world.Somalis living abroad use it to send money to their relatives back home as there are no other banking systems in Somalia since the downfall of the Siad Barre regime in 1991.Somalia's prime minister has issued a decree appointing a special committee to investigate al-Barakaat, as well as all other remittance companies.http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/africa/1672220.stm___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] lye
hi yall, all i ahve to say is at least the walmarts aren't unionized. ( doesn't make them better but ... ) and that i agree with the going to a chemical shop. they will have what you need. vince zJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Don;The comment about walmart, I knew would be humorous to some on the list but it was serious too. There is much interest on this list about fighting globalization and avoiding giving any support to large multinational corporations. Many folks I come across seem to think biodiesel is a license to go on with the same world view and attitude but just for cheaper and better for the air (as a side benefit almost). I hope you didn't feel stung by my little joke, and welcome to the list BTW.Try to find a local chemical supply house. Look in the yellow pages under chemical. Avoid things like drain cleaner which are not pure enough for the BD process. You can find small quantities of lye intended for soap making which are pure but cost more than you should be paying. Also avoid buying a huge bulk quantity which may seem the best economy, because you will need to use it before it absorbs moisture and degrades (gets kinda chalky white). Most commonly (around here) it looks like little spheres that are cut in half , white but not paper white,(that is old stuff) it is kind of translucent a little bit. Same goes for the alcohol. It must be very pure and dry (no water content) Some folks seem to be getting it from shops that cater to performance cars and drag racing. I also found a supply in the phone book yellow pages.Support small local shops if possible. I know this is a bit of a goofy statement when it comes to chemicals that are manufactured far away most likely by a huge company who doesn't have the environment as the number one priority but walmart is just pure evil.Joedon lyon wrote: Joe what I was looking for was a little help on how to make this bio-diesel fuel. I haven't looked at walmart for any additives to use. I am planning on looking at our local hardware store. I will be looking at the methonol alcohol and lye. I still don't know how to test any batch made. Also the used steak oil I picked up has oven cleaner mixed in it. Does that hurt anything? Thanks for your help Joe. God Bless, Donald God Bless, Donald Lyon From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] lyeDate: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:38:49 -0400How can you be on this list and still be shopping at WALMART!!!Heaven help us.Joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: first can I use red devil lye that is used for drain cleaner is it pure lye, it is in granular form should i grind it? also is denatured alcohol what you buy in wal-mart buy the quart ok to use for my test batches and training? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Sorry about that, It was also on both CNN and Yahoo. I'm wondering if those statements are a violation of the Patriot Act. Surely it's only applied from one side and not the other? If Chavez had called for Robertson's assassination, for instance (if Chavez were a US citizen that is), but a good ol' boy like Robertson can surely do no wrong. Do you think the crazed neocon sith lord traitors who've done so much to wreck America and everything else in the last four years could end up getting flushed down the tubes by their very own Patriot Act? That would raise chuckles for the rest of history. Best Keith Tom Irwin From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:36:15 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to Clif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823 -09170200-bc-us-robertson.xmlhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=To pNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . . That man is no Christian. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca/http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Q. about Commerce in Somolia [was] US shuts down Somalia internet
My original post was out of date and didn't include my intentions. I apologize for rushing and not communicating as well as I should have. It was supposed to address questions I have about the determination of commercial entities to appear in the most unlikely places. I'd like to know more about how that happens, who or what those entities serve (especially if it interacts with other countries) and how it effects Somalia, a countrywhere (to my knowledge) there is no established/recognized government. This all seem to be impossible. I find it very interesting because it seems to be the result of a hybrid society, made from elements of anarchy and capitalism. Maybe I'm by myself onthis one. If so, that would be OK. I'll just let it go. Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US shuts down Somalia internet
...sorry Keith. No harm done Mike, I just wondered. It made me cross at the time. It was part of a discussion I had with a friend. I became really switched-on about it, looked it up and posted it without looking at the date. Oh, I didn't think of that. That sort of becomes an impossibility quite early on in my trade, even if they have to do it with a hammer. Or it did do, don't know about these days. Who what where when how and why in the first 25 words, preferably less. You might like one of the examples we were given of a news story intro paragraph: In the beginning God created heaven and earth. It fails because it doesn't cover how and why. Especially why. And exactly where also isn't very clear. But the book's the all-time bestseller anyway, so what is one to think? What the guy with the hammer says I guess. Oh for the good old days of hot metal, sigh... Dangerous thing to say - there are a few hot metal men here and we'll yack if we have any encouragement, it's happened before. But it's hot metal men who know about systems, not these cold-metal whimps of today, and these days they don't even know what that means. (And I'm one of them! LOL!) I knew no good would come of it, now everyone thinks there's an Undo button of Life. Lead antimony and tin, how on earth did we survive all the fumes? Or did we??? What d'you mean off-topic? What's all this biodiesel stuff got to do with Somalia anyway? They ran out of virtual flongs, that's the problem, mumble mumble... :-/ Keith Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why such an old story Michael? 23 November, 2001. I remember that happening and I'm not sure what happened since, but it seems to be working. http://somalinet.com/dir/ Somali - SomaliNet - Somalia: - Internet Directory http://www.arabji.com/Somalia/ Somalia Internet Guide - Somalia's Portal, Search Engine, Directory Yellow Pages Best wishes Keith US shuts down Somalia internet The US believes the two companies also support Bin Laden Somalia's only internet company and a key telecoms business have been forced to close because the United States suspects them of terrorist links. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Large crops, less nutrients
The concentration in atmosphere depend from the deforestation. If you cultivate in extreme condition of temperature high concetration of CO2 and other nutrients, you obtain a big results in quantiyt and quality. Is it clear? I hope yes. Wishes Ezio Libero Flat, sempre a 4 Mega a 19,95 euro al mese! Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Looking for feedback on Biodiesel system
List, I was exposed to Biodiesel just a few days ago and have been searching the internet since trying to learn what I could. I have found several homemade systems and a few commercially available systems. I was looking for open honest feedback on the systems available at this web site: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/home/home.asp . The price is very high compared to the homemade systems, but the point asked is would it work or is it a bad system. We have 4 people in my neighborhood who all use diesel trucks to tow campers or horse trailers and we are very interested the systems available. I was voted the one to find out what I could about how to make it and the systems available. Thanks, Ed ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
The UN will impose economic sanctions on Iran, if Iran doesn't stop playing with nuclear energy. One of these sanctions would be to stop them from selling their oil on the world market. And since Iran is the 4th largest oil producer in the world, it would definitely affect the price of crude oil. What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? --- Bud Eble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AUG 20: Oil may rise above $75 a barrel in the next three months if the dispute over Iran's nuclear programme causes the country to cut exports, said David Thurtell, head of commodity research at Commonwealth Bank of Australia. Read the rest at http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=99959 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Looking for feedback on Biodiesel system
Continuing along that theme, I, too, am looking for people in the DC area to form a Bio Diesel manufacturing coop for sharing expenses and responsibilities. Any takers? Drew Cohen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hurley, Edward R Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:16 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Looking for feedback on Biodiesel system List, I was exposed to Biodiesel just a few days ago and have been searching the internet since trying to learn what I could. I have found several homemade systems and a few commercially available systems. I was looking for open honest feedback on the systems available at this web site: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/home/home.asp . The price is very high compared to the homemade systems, but the point asked is would it work or is it a bad system. We have 4 people in my neighborhood who all use diesel trucks to tow campers or horse trailers and we are very interested the systems available. I was voted the one to find out what I could about how to make it and the systems available. Thanks, Ed ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Yes, Unbelievable, huh? I heard this on NPR this morning and then read the story online (it was picked up by the AP) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050823/ap_on_re_us/ robertson_assassination This guy (I'm being nice) ran for president as a Republican, in 1988. I just don't think his (lack of) morals and right wing rationale are very different from GW Bush. Some say they are good friends. He endorsed GH Bush in '88 and is a huge fan of Ronald Reagan's policies. According to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson He is a Southern Baptist and was an ordained minister with that denomination for many years, but holds to a Pentecostal theology Their M.O. is something like Judge, judge, punish, judge punish, ignore our hippocracy...In my first-hand experience, (I'm from South Carolina) pentecostals pick and choose the parts of the Bible that they take literally... One of the beauties of our US first amendment guarantee to free speech is that loonies and crackpots like Pat Robertson are more than happy to hang themselves in public by opening their mouths. All this right-wing talk of 'taking out' President Chavez couldn't have anything to do with his plans to increase state control over the oil industry, could it? i.e. nationalizing oil would decrease profits for big US oil corporations... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1713761.stm What mental hospital let this Robertson out too early? Does US nothave the money to treat their basket cases in proper facilities? Hakan-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Looking for feedback on Biodiesel system
Hello Ed, welcome I was exposed to Biodiesel just a few days ago and have been searching the internet since trying to learn what I could. I have found several homemade systems and a few commercially available systems. I was looking for open honest feedback on the systems available at this web site: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/home/home.asphttp://www.biodiesels olutions.com/home/home.asp . The price is very high compared to the homemade systems, but the point asked is would it work or is it a bad system. We have 4 people in my neighborhood who all use diesel trucks to tow campers or horse trailers and we are very interested the systems available. I was voted the one to find out what I could about how to make it and the systems available. See: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35652.html Re: [biofuel] Best Processer You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons of high-quality biodiesel for that price. I recommend the list archives Ed, it's a treasure-trove. Linked at the end of every message: Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Best wishes Keith Thanks, Ed ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
C.J.; What the devil has oil to do with it? (everything - I know) Perhaps they would like to save some oil or perhaps they would like to join the nuclear big boys club. Why doesn't Iran have just as much right to 'play with ' as you put it, nuclear energy as any other nation who has the capability to develop it? Conversely what right does the US vis a vis the UN have to determine the energy programs of foreign lands? What is sovereignty then? This attitude of hegemony is what brings about the hatred of the US which is so widespread around the world. The people of that country let their leaders get away with this again and again even after the reprisals which have been felt so dearly by the american people but which are actually puny in comparison to the carnage their governments have inflicted directly and indirectly abroad. What if the situation were reversed and it was Iran trying to say that america should not have nuclear power? The american people would be incensed by the audacity and arrogance of that attitude from a foreign source. Joe C. J. Thornton wrote: snip What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? --- Bud Eble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "AUG 20: Oil may rise above $75 a barrel in the next three months if the dispute over Iran's nuclear programme causes the country to cut exports, said David Thurtell, head of commodity research at Commonwealth Bank of Australia. " Read the rest at http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=99959 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
A lot of us could see the war with Iraq coming - even with the dog pony show happening at the UN. Now that US attention is turned toward Iran, there is even more chatter on the Internet about a pending war. However, with resources stretched to the limit and and an effective anti-recruitment movement helping to keep the numbers low, I would like to know what Dubya has in mind.A military draft would be the ultimate circus. It would also be really Ironic since Rummy supported Milton Friedman inefforts to abolish the draft in place of an all-volunteer army back in the early seventies. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/8_37/national_news/25314-1.html I did a quick search to see what's happening on the web: http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=US+already+at+war+with+iran If a so called "causus bellum" was squandered for the purposes of a big-business agenda, what happens if Iran actually becomes hostile.How about anyone else for that matter? Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
C.J., It is obvious that Iran also have uranium to develop and why would they not be allowed to do so? US and the west would rather see Iran exporting the uranium, than using it. It is obvious that even peaceful use of nuclear energy, is a threat for the needs of US. Uranium is also a fossil resource and last time I saw world R/P numbers on it, it was 60 years and a quarter of oil. BP have since then stopped to show numbers for uranium. US have less than 10 years of uranium themselves. Do not worry, US would take the initiative for an other food for oil program and scope up the Iranian oil production. Could even stop the Iranians to sell oil to China, who in absolute numbers now have the same growth rate as US. US would love to have a mechanism to control the Iranian oil, but it would not be less production, the world can not afford further decline in the oil production. It is bad enough that Iraq cannot export oil. The UN will not impose sanctions on Iran, any such suggestion will be vetoed. It will not fly and is too masochistic. Hakan At 20:48 23/08/2005, you wrote: The UN will impose economic sanctions on Iran, if Iran doesn't stop playing with nuclear energy. One of these sanctions would be to stop them from selling their oil on the world market. And since Iran is the 4th largest oil producer in the world, it would definitely affect the price of crude oil. What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? --- Bud Eble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AUG 20: Oil may rise above $75 a barrel in the next three months if the dispute over Iran's nuclear programme causes the country to cut exports, said David Thurtell, head of commodity research at Commonwealth Bank of Australia. Read the rest at http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=99959 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Hi Bud, I guess anyone with a nuclear weapon doesn´t get attacked by the U.S. (see North Korea) or perhaps if your neighbor gets invaded for its oil you want a deterent so you won´t be attacked. Also it could be that if nuclear energyis good enough for China to increase their electric power generation capacity then it´s good enough for a Middle Eastern country. I don´t think it´s a given that the UN will impose sanctions on Iran. If they tried several countries might exercise their veto on the security council. I don´t remember was India or Pakastan sanctioned for their nuclear programs? Maybe Iran wants sanctions so it can sell oil at a higher price through the black market. There are many reason if one thinks a while. Tom Irwin snipWhat I'd like to know is - What does a country sittingon top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? --- Bud Eble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: "AUG 20: Oil may rise above $75 a barrel in the next three months if the dispute over Iran's nuclear programme causes the country to cut exports, said David Thurtell, head of commodity research at Commonwealth Bank of Australia. " snip__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Hey Mike; What if they called a war and nobody showed? The odd draft dodger is easy to deal with but suppose everybody just folded their arms and said '"no"? Trouble is joe average is too well indoctrinated to consider a little civil disobedience. Where would they incarcerate them all? Gitmo would have to be expanded to take all of Cuba and then we would have another humanitarian issue with poor Cubans being pushed into the sea! If only there was someone with deep enough pockets to run a bunch of anti war ads on the idiot box during prime time, ahh but they'd never put it on no matter how much cash you offered. No doubt the entire network staff would be up on charges for violation of the parrot act or some such nonsense. Yeah they've got all the angles covered as usual. Still wouldn't that be a lark eh? You could use the web, set up an international trust fund for the remedial training of dumb americans. Tell them the truth actually! What a concept. Could even be an alternative for terrorism. Instead of funding terrorists, the money could go to reprogramming american society to allow only reasonable men and women to run their government. Ideas like Truth, Liberty, and Justice for all could be espoused. The idea of democracy could be taught. Imagine the possibilities! Joe Michael Redler wrote: A lot of us could see the war with Iraq coming - even with the dog pony show happening at the UN. Now that US attention is turned toward Iran, there is even more chatter on the Internet about a pending war. However, with resources stretched to the limit and and an effective anti-recruitment movement helping to keep the numbers low, I would like to know what Dubya has in mind.A military draft would be the ultimate circus. It would also be really Ironic since Rummy supported Milton Friedman inefforts to abolish the draft in place of an all-volunteer army back in the early seventies. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/8_37/national_news/25314-1.html I did a quick search to see what's happening on the web: http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=US+already+at+war+with+iran If a so called "causus bellum" was squandered for the purposes of a big-business agenda, what happens if Iran actually becomes hostile.How about anyone else for that matter? Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
With China sitting on the Security council and being one of Iran''s biggest customers I wonder how far sanctions will get? Rick C. J. Thornton wrote: The UN will impose economic sanctions on Iran, if Iran doesn't stop playing with nuclear energy. One of these sanctions would be to stop them from selling their oil on the world market. And since Iran is the 4th largest oil producer in the world, it would definitely affect the price of crude oil. What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? --- Bud Eble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "AUG 20: Oil may rise above $75 a barrel in the next three months if the dispute over Iran's nuclear programme causes the country to cut exports, said David Thurtell, head of commodity research at Commonwealth Bank of Australia. " Read the rest at http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=99959 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Why a war if it is only to remove the enrichment facilities, Israel just nipped across the border and blew up Iraq’s nuclear site. I’m sure a few missiles fire from off shore would do the job. But that does mean they would still control their own oil. Chris. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 22/08/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Chris Lloyd wrote: Why a war if it is only to remove the enrichment facilities, Israel just nipped across the border and blew up Iraq’s nuclear site. I’m sure a few missiles fire from off shore would do the job. But that does mean they would still control their own oil. Chris. After the Osirak raid, I suspect the Iranians might be better prepared today than than the Iraqis were in '81. But yes, an air strike and an invasion are two very different things. http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/docs/41osi.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/newsid_3014000/3014623.stm jh ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Joe, "...suppose everybody just folded their arms and said 'no'?" Man! Don't do that. I just had to breath into a paper bag for the last ten minutes! The potential of a movement can make the power of money insignificant. "Still wouldn't that be a lark eh?" Ah ha!! A Canuck! I should have known. Words of wisdom from the North. :-) MikeJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Mike;What if they called a war and nobody showed? The odd draft dodger is easy to deal with but suppose everybody just folded their arms and said '"no"?Trouble is joe average is too well indoctrinated to consider a little civil disobedience. Where would they incarcerate them all? Gitmo would have to be expanded to take all of Cuba and then we would have another humanitarian issue with poor Cubans being pushed into the sea!If only there was someone with deep enough pockets to run a bunch of anti war ads on the idiot box during prime time, ahh but they'd never put it on no matter how much cash you offered. No doubt the entire network staff would be up on charges for violation of the parrot act or some such nonsense. Yeah they've got all the angles covered as usual. Still wouldn't that be a lark eh? You could use the web, set up an international trust fund for the remedial training of dumb americans. Tell them the truth actually! What a concept. Could even be an alternative for terrorism. Instead of funding terrorists, the money could go to reprogramming american society to allow only reasonable men and women to run their government. Ideas like Truth, Liberty, and Justice for all could be espoused. The idea of democracy could be taught. Imagine the possibilities!Joe___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Iran has a relatively large population in proportion to its oil supplies. Going back well into the Shah's time it professed to be worried about eventually running out of oil, and was interested in using its oil resources to build up a permanent energy supply through nuclear power. Probably some of this was an excuse to start a militarily useful nuclear program. Iran does have the world's second largest reserves of natural gas (after Russia) but even that will come to an end one day. Remember that Iran was an empire 2500 years ago. They naturally think in terms of power, industrial and political, for the long term. They have large deserts suitable for generating solar power, but then so does the U.S. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, C. J. Thornton wrote: [snip] What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
C. J. Thornton wrote: What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? A deterrent. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Urine Battery Turns Pee Into Power
This kind of goes along with the "sheep urine in your tank" article in the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1503407,00.html). Mike_ Urine Battery Turns Pee Into Power John Roachfor National Geographic News August 18, 2005 Before you next flush the toilet, consider this: Scientists in Singapore have developed a battery powered by urine. Researchers at the Institute of Bioengineering and Nanotechnology created the credit card-size battery as a disposable power source for medical test kits. Scientists have been scrambling to create smaller, more efficient, and less expensive "biochips" to test for diseases such as diabetes. Until now, however, similarly small batteries to power the devices remained elusive. Diagnostic test kits commonly analyze the chemical composition of a person's urine to detect a malady. Ki Bang Lee and his colleagues realized that the substance being testedurinecould also power the test. "In order to address this problem, we have designed a disposable battery on a chip, which is activated by biofluids such as urine," Lee wrote in an e-mail to National Geographic News. The research team describes the battery in the current issue of the Journal of Micromechanics and Microengineering. Daniel Kammen, director of the Renewable and Appropriate Energy Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, said the technology is a welcome innovation in a time of rising energy prices. "All jokes [about] urine aside, what is needed are low-cost batteries. " he said. "The other neat thing about this is the fact that it's basically a biodegradable battery." Urine Power To make the battery, Lee and his colleagues soaked a piece of paper in a solution of copper chloride and sandwiched it between strips of magnesium and copper. This sandwich was then laminated between two sheets of transparent plastic. When a drop of urine is added to the paper through a slit in the plastic, a chemical reaction takes place that produces electricity, Lee said. The prototype battery produced about 1.5 volts, the same as a standard AA battery, and runs for about 90 minutes. Researchers said the power, voltage, and lifetime of the battery can be improved by adjusting the geometry and materials used. CONTINUED 1 | 2 Next ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Photo in the News: Gas Thief Escapes on Tricycle
Photo in the News: Gas Thief Escapes on Tricycle August 16, 2005Speeding from the scene of the crime, a Chinese boy tows a floating plastic bag of stolen natural gas last week. Flouting a government ban, farmers around the central Chinese town of Pucheng frequently filch gas from the local oil field. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0816_050816_gas_theft.html The rebel in me keeps wanting to say Go! Go! Go! :-) Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Photo in the News: Gas Thief Escapes on Tricycle
Michael Redler wrote: * Photo in the News: Gas Thief Escapes on Tricycle * *August 16, 2005*—Speeding from the scene of the crime, a Chinese boy tows a floating plastic bag of stolen natural gas last week. Flouting a government ban, farmers around the central Chinese town of Pucheng frequently filch gas from the local oil field. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0816_050816_gas_theft.html The rebel in me keeps wanting to say Go! Go! Go! :-) Mike A shame they didn't fuzz out the kid's face... Now the thief's mugshot in the media will make prosecuting him too easy. doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson / Chavez story on CNN
I thought for sure I had seen Robertson being interviewed recently on FOX. If my memory serves me correctly, he had only been out of a facility for the mental challenged for 48 hours. In Madrid, yes that's where it was, Spain!!! But then, most of the Dr.'s in this particular hospital were from Denmark, or Sweden, or Norway, or...oh, who cares. Strange combination, and as we can all clearly see, not at all effective! Or.maybe he's just a nutcase. BTWnone of the above should, in any way, be taken literally. It is all a friendly jab at Hakan : ) To say it more clearly, everything written above is El Crapo. Man I hope that's not really spanish for something. : ( On 8/23/05, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What mental hospital let this Robertson out too early? Does US nothave the money to treat their basket cases in proper facilities?HakanAt 13:26 23/08/2005, you wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/robertson.chavez/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Mike KAntiFossilMN, USA"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmen of today." President Theodore Roosevelt - 1906 Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace: Charles SumnerQuotes from Information Clearing House ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Photo in the News: Gas Thief Escapes on Tricycle
Mike, I'm gonna be laughing about this one for quite sometime now! Let's ride little dude! Great photo, thanks for posting!On 8/23/05, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photo in the News: Gas Thief Escapes on Tricycle August 16, 2005—Speeding from the scene of the crime, a Chinese boy tows a floating plastic bag of stolen natural gas last week. Flouting a government ban, farmers around the central Chinese town of Pucheng frequently filch gas from the local oil field. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0816_050816_gas_theft.html The rebel in me keeps wanting to say Go! Go! Go! :-) Mike ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Mike KAntiFossilMN, USA"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmen of today." President Theodore Roosevelt - 1906Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace: Charles SumnerQuotes from Information Clearing House ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson / Chavez story on CNN
Mike, Most of the really good Spanish Dr.s, get their education and especially practices in US. Some very popular specialities are mental and beauty treatments. Sweden is well known for replacement surgery, but they have not yet tried to replace human brains with the ones from apes, as far as I know. Maybe Robertson is an experiment, who knows? We would probably only heard about it, if it was regarded as successful. How can a representative of a religious fraction recommend assassination as a solution? Robertson is unbelievable stupid and I wonder who his God is and who are his followers? It is really amazing. Hakan At 01:53 24/08/2005, you wrote: I thought for sure I had seen Robertson being interviewed recently on FOX. If my memory serves me correctly, he had only been out of a facility for the mental challenged for 48 hours. In Madrid, yes that's where it was, Spain!!! But then, most of the Dr.'s in this particular hospital were from Denmark, or Sweden, or Norway, or...oh, who cares. Strange combination, and as we can all clearly see, not at all effective! Or.maybe he's just a nutcase. BTWnone of the above should, in any way, be taken literally. It is all a friendly jab at Hakan : ) To say it more clearly, everything written above is El Crapo. Man I hope that's not really spanish for something. : ( On 8/23/05, Hakan Falk mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What mental hospital let this Robertson out too early? Does US not have the money to treat their basket cases in proper facilities? Hakan At 13:26 23/08/2005, you wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/robertson.chavez/ ___ Biofuel mailing list mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Mike K AntiFossil MN, USA Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmen of today. President Theodore Roosevelt - 1906 Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace: Charles Sumner Quotes from Information Clearing House ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng
Hi Derick True, I totally agree that trying in correct direction with the interaction with multidicipline colaboration can lead to good sucess, not with limited persistant work sd Pannir On 8/21/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion. Since the dawn of time science and scientists have been considered quacks. The persistent have succeeded on one level or another. If you don't try you can't succeed. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng How can I respond to the negative email below? ...with persistence. Good luck! Mike Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI Without the colaborative information exchange and dadta base information on biofuel both chemical and bioenginerring people are wasting the money in research not only in USA , but also in the developing country too as an academic curiosity to make patent and publish papers .Hence Mari the e mail has some fact for all the members to think about . Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive . Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical syntysis seem to be very practical one . sd Pannirselvam On 8/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HELP! How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. I sent him some info from this list to help his research, and was surprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say in response? The email: Hi Marilyn Those guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- having followed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes (technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that the Bioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors with money to waste). The technology is neither prove nor economical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid). Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at any significant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it could be achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options for producing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted over various catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce many different products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, and various oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratio also has to be adjusted for the specific application. After the synthesis, further processing is usually required. Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understand chemical engineering, process economics, resource availability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet every every 5-10 years a new generation of biomass advocates and promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) who don't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomass will save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technically dumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke each other and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous. This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden for the biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail. I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) as a renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizing it. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. The cause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif, You are correct in insisting on source verification when reporting anything as serious as the report that evangelist and religious broadcaster Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. That's serious stuff. Today I found the following verifying documentation: Source: The Oregonian, p.A8, Tues, Aug 23, 2005, under the byline of THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, Robertson, referring to Chavez, is quoted as follows, 'You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it,' ...'We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability,' Robertson said. Best, Bob Adams - Original Message - From: Clif Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to robert luis rabello wrote: bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] deacidification
I appreciate your patience Cheers Ian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] deacidification Hello Ian Hi Keith This is probably the best stuff avalable in my small town, as it is from a food shop renound for quality food. :-) It comes as a surprise to quite a lot of biodieselers when they start titrating restaurant oil and quickly find out which ones really produce quality food. 6ml 0.1% NaOH solution oil is not the product of a quality restaurant, sorry to say. Yes I did mean deacidification as per JTF site. I have 80 litres in 4 drums, I took three samples heated them to test for water There's probably some water in oil like that. The higher the titration level the more difficulty water will cause. and carried out the test three times I even tried different isoprpyl as some of what I had was quite old, but still the same result. I then tested some oil from a friends home frier and found it to be around 3.5grpl, About the upper limit, beyond that novices start having problems. (For his sake rather than yours, I'd suggest you tell your friend to change his oil more often or not to make it so hot.) them a further test on brand new SVO and only 1 drop caused a change to pink? Given that my testing is accurate Probably it's accurate. should I persisit with single stage or try deacidification? The only 2 things that I question of my testing is the 1/1000 mixture was cold, although the test was carried out with the beaker standing in warm water and the phenolphalein was made up with Ethanol? I think it always is. It should be okay as long as it's not old. For the 0.1% NaOH solution, next time pour some into another beaker and stand that in warm water too. Anyway, 6ml titration oil is feasible once you have some experience, there shouldn't be any need to deacidify it. Try deacidifying it if you like, it takes a little practice (gently!), but even if it works it will only have added another variable as an obstacle in your learning curve. I'm sorry, I've lost track - did you start with virgin oil tests? If not, I suggest you go back and do that a few times: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then try the 9.5 gm/litre WVO. Do small 1-litre test batches. If you don't succeed, then mix virgin oil with the WVO until you've reduced the titration result to say 2.5 to 3 ml and try that. If you haven't got a blender you could rig one of these or something similar: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor Or you can use PET bottles - mix the methoxide first, do it this way: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth Pre-heat the oil to 55 deg C (131 deg F), funnel it into the PET bottle, add the methoxide, screw the lid on tightly and shake violently for a minute or so. Then stand it in hot water and maintain the temperature at 55 deg C. Shake it again hard every five minutes, continue for at least an hour, preferably two hours. Please remember that your main goal isn't to process that 80 litres of oil, it's to learn how to make high-quality biodiesel. If you go about it that way you'll get better results with that oil or any oil. Best wishes Keith Your thoughts would be appreciated Cheers Ian Hello Ian Hi Guys I've just tested the WVO I've managed to obtain and tested out at 6grpl this plus 3.5 makes 9.5. Is this a candidate for deacidification? What do you mean by deacidification? Do you mean using an acid-base process instead of a single-stage base process, or do you mean this, or something similar? Deacidifying WVO http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#deacid Deacidification is a standard step in processing raw (new) oils for sale and consumption. The deacidifying process above is basically the same but without the need for a centrifuge. If you mean an acid-base process, any oil is a good candidate for that. Anyway, oil titrating at 6 g/l is probably borderline for a novice attempting his first test batch with WVO. Standard WVO, if there is such a thing, is usually considered as around 3-3.5 titration. Try it if you like but you might struggle. Strictly speaking, it shouldn't be 6grpl but 6 ml of 0.1% NaOH solution, which indeed translates to 9.5 grpl. How did you titrate it? Best wishes Keith Cheers Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database:
[Biofuel] Procter Gamble interested in BioD
'Evening, Folks - Yesterday I saw what I believe was an RFP from PG for better catalysts to split various plant and animal oils from their glycerin 'backbone' to yield methylated esters. If I read it right (sorry - it was quick) they would like not to have a glycerin fraction at all. I'm not certain how that might work, but they are willing to drop six figures on the project just to see what someone might come up with. It might be tough to stay small if major players have an interest... Just FYI. Pax T -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson / Chavez story on CNN
This is just sad. I can't believe he has the nerve to call himself a Christian. =shudder= Jesus would never advocate the assasination of anyone. He'd be more likely to have him over for dinner and tell parables. :) He's just as crazy as Al Qaida. =sigh= But hey... freedom of speech and all. =shurg= On 8/23/05, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can a representative of a religious fraction recommend assassination as a solution? Robertson is unbelievable stupid and I wonder who his God is and who are his followers? It is really amazing. Hakan -- -Sir Woody Hackswell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
I hope I am not the first to jump in head first on this one. I know there are a lot of much more educated people than me here. Just the same, why shouldn't I spout off? I simply hope for PEACE. The UN will impose economic sanctions on Iran, if Iran doesn't stop playing with nuclear energy. One of these sanctions would be to stop them from selling their oil on the world market. And since Iran is the 4th largest oil producer in the world, it would definitely affect the price of crude oil. What has Iran done that is so terrible that the U.N. is pestering them so? I hope the UN or more likely American oil companies is not still pissed off about the Shaw being thrown out some thirty odd years ago. What I'd like to know is - What does a country sitting on top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? In my opinion it none of our business what Iran does. If you beleive the Mathew Simmons book twilight in the desert in which the author suggests that Iran has already reached Peak Oil, then why bother Iran? My understanding of Iran is they are more united as a people than Iraq and if the US pokes them in the face with a stick the proverbial shit will hit the fan. I wish we (the UN US) could stop policing the world. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
What I'd like to know is - What does a country sittingon top of a sea of oil need with nuclear energy??? Think about it. If the price of oil keeps climbing, the more oil Iran can sell means more $$ for them. If they are using their oil to run their own country, they are missing out on some big money. Also, it is good to diversify in everything, especially a country's GDP. Oil is essentially a cash crop for Iran, and they have to be hedged in case something happens to that crop. The sense I got was that they not only want nuclear energy for themselves, but they also want to be an exporter as well. So what they are doing is no different than a normal corporation expanding into new areas of business. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The rendererssaid that it was illegal forpeople to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
On Aug 23, 2005, at 3:17 PM, Brian Ramsay wrote: Think about it. If the price of oil keeps climbing, the more oil Iran can sell means more $$ for them. If they are using their oil to run their own country, they are missing out on some big money. Also, it is good to diversify in everything, especially a country's GDP. Oil is essentially a cash crop for Iran, and they have to be hedged in case something happens to that crop. The sense I got was that they not only want nuclear energy for themselves, but they also want to be an exporter as well. So what they are doing is no different than a normal corporation expanding into new areas of business. That's a kind way to see these developments, but I think Iran sees an even more pressing need... Any country with significant energy reserves would be foolish not to enlist allies and develop a nuclear program. With NeoCon warmongers at the helm, the United Empire of Earth is a terrifying enemy. We have absolutely shown the world that we cannot be trusted. That we favor lies and violence over justice. Why shouldn't Iran rush to present a strong defense against the biggest bully in the world. It's a shame that the world is becoming less safe, more unstable. But the USA and its corporate allies are the primary architects of this brutish new world. As long as profit and greed trump all other motives, and the most heavily armed country in the world will take up arms for the financial gain of its masters, every country has something to lose. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by renderingcompany
Title: Message To my knowledge, we are excempt over here in SA at the moment as it is not petroleum based... just ask them renderes for the PROOF! They should have some sort of paper then... Jurie. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frieda FeenSent: 24 August 2005 06:29 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by renderingcompany Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The rendererssaid that it was illegal forpeople to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
