date:20050830

Hello Mike

> From my limited experience in Latin America I always felt the EV's were
>making inroads because they had enough sense to actually have
>local people in positions of authority,

Hungry people have enough problems already, all they need is to have 
that stuff shoved down their throats, even if some food comes with it.

>where as most (not all, Jaime
>Sin comes to mind)

Jaime Sin was in the Philippines.

>Catholic big-wigs were white.  I will say that when I
>was working in Africa the CRS people were very good.

The people are one thing, the institution is another, as ever, the 
institution in this case being the church itself. The CRS people are 
very good, so is CAFOD, and many others. The churches do some of the 
best development work, and without thumping the Bible overmuch, if at 
all - but again, it's not the churches who do it, it's the church 
workers.

Best

Keith


>Mike "Lapsed Unitarian" Weaver
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hello Taryn
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hi Keith, et alii.
> >>
> >>On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam
> >>>
> >>>Did you read this?
> >>>
> >>>http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
> >>>5-August/003230.html
> >>>Or:
> >>>http://snipurl.com/hb3u
> >>>[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
> >>>"Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
> >>>Speak for Jesus"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now
> >>misplaced)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the 
>whole threads?
> >
> >
> >
> >>led me to some striking information regarding the US's
> >>post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.
> >>Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and
> >>liberation theology, in Latin American politics.
> >>
> >>Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites
> >>accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then
> >>to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing
> >>together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war
> >>Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist
> >>in name only by the 1940s.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the
> >original threads.
> >
> >It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died
> >mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd
> >forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist
> >theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John
> >Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech
> >Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed
> >Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What
> >happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were
> >the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a
> >side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in
> >Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting
> >comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd
> >bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.)
> >
> >I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I
> >thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and
> >powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic
> >Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could
> >perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of
> >development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we
> >got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion
> >or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert
> >Johnson made a better deal.
> >
> >I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that,
> >but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like.
> >
> >
> >
> >>So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre
> >>predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great
> >>resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and
> >>Pannirselvam. (and many others)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thanks to all!
> >
> >
> >
> >>In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all
> >>together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with
> >>much funding from ARPA,
> >> >>Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency> which was created to respond
> >>to "The Communist Threat". Now of course the internet is one of our
> >>best tools for responding to the "Capitalist Threat".
> >>
> >>
> >
> >It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means.
> >Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I
> >don't like ploughs!)
> >
> >
> >
> >>Regarding the "Clash of Civilisations", it's astonishing that
> >>Christians,

Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams... Oops, double post.

Hi Taryn

>Sorry, the earlier posting (20:35:45) is incomplete, I had no idea it
>went out until I noticed the double post on the archives.
>
>Keith,
>It's hardly important, but I wondered if there is a simple way to toss
>duplicates and accidents from the archives?

I checked when we set it up, there's no simple way to do it, in 
either archives. In fact we can't do it at all, we'd have to ask the 
guys who run the sites to do it, which I'd much rather not do.

We can live with it Taryn, everyone makes mistakes, don't let it bother you.

Best wishes

Keith



>Taryn
>ornae.com


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[Biofuel] BP stations for sale

2005-08-30 Thread Bob Clark



>>Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
>>gasoline stations up
>>for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
>>returns for their
>>shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
>>them. I won't
>>be holding my breath.



All the BP stations in Mercer County, PA have closed and are for sale.
There are numerous BP stations still open for business across the Ohio line, 
less then ten miles away.

What does that mean? I have no idea, just something that I observe in my daily 
travels. IT SURE DOESN'T MEAN I BELIEVE BP IS LOSING MONEY ON THEIR GAS!!  
In fact, I was kinda wondering if they are doing random closings like this 
around the country (and possibly world) and THAT is where they are stating a 
"loss" from -- property depreciation and NOT gas/oil sales???

Bob C.


PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

Regardless of the climate changes wind is cheaper by far. lets say you 
need 25Kw/H per day (that is my average use)

This assumes no storage facility and constant production

Solar you have MAYBE 12 hours/day to make electricity. Of that you can 
only count on 25% to be producing MAX panel power.
This means you need to make 2Kw/h (12 hours production) and 6.25Kw/H 
with 4 hours for production.

With wind you need only 1.05Kw/H

Now reality says you wont get wind 24/7 (some palces do) and that you 
will have days where you wont get any sun.

For a home wind setup I would go with 2Kw/H and a fair sized storage 
facility. Solar I would go with 10Kw/H and a huge
storage facility. If I owned the building I live in (i rent office + apt 
in the same building) I would mount 4 500w generators
on the roof. We have a fairly good wind blowing all the time. Plenty of 
space for a good 24v battery bank with 2000aH.
Pay off is around 3 years. It can be much shorter depending on your 
power use along with if your power co has a
co-generation energy credit program.

Jeromie


Tom Irwin wrote:

> Hi All,
>  
> If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more 
> sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If 
> the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days 
> from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the 
> rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly 
> constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change.
>  
> Tom Irwin 
>
> 
> *From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> *Sent:* Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
>
> FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6
> backlog of
> orders.
>
> Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hi Darryl
> >
> >Very nice!
> >
> >
> >
> >>I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above.
> My point is,
> >>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
> >
> >If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey
> >to Forever for it, might help.
> >
> >It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't
> work
> >out that way I don't mind.
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their
> >>gasoline stations up
> >>for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the
> >>returns for their
> >>shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump
> >>them. I won't
> >>be holding my breath.
> >>
> >>As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here
> before.
> >>
> >>If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for
> whatever reason,
> >>here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
> >>
> >>1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.
> >>
> >>2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local
> >>FreeCycle, or bike
> >>repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and
> >>practical for
> >>your use. Then use it.
> >>
> >>3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if
> >>necessary. Slight
> >>overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight
> underinflation. Repeat
> >>monthly or more frequently if required.
> >>
> >>4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule.
> >>Check owner's
> >>manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control
> >>system problems,
> >>etc while you are at it.
> >>
> >>5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
> >>
> >>6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.
> >>
> >>7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your
> >>vehicle. There are
> >>many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE
> >>dual-fuel incentive,
> >>where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel
> capable. Check your
> >>vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate
> >>(or make your
> >>own, of course).
> >>
> >>8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra
> >>weight uses more
> >>energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear.
> >>(e.g. sand and salt
> >>mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as
> well).
> >>
> >>9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser /
> >>energy wise labels.
> >>
> >>10) When shopping

Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Manzo, Emil










Hi Joe, thanks for the link. On page 2 it states: “Indium
gallium nitride solar cells could be made…. approaching the maximum
theoretical efficiencies of better than 70 percent.” The article I read centered on the patent of a
deposition process. I don’t remember the elements used though. Definitely
a good read! With R&D going on worldwide,
there’s bound to be more energy breakthroughs in our lifetime. 



Regards,

Emil



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Street
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005
2:33 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar
panels

 

I wonder if it had to do
with Gallium Indium Nitride?  Check this link   http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell.html
In a nutshell it works by varying the doping level of indium in Gallium Nitride
so as to smoothly taper the bandgap of the material from low to high
energy.  This is a step beyond the multijunction cells which are the
highest efficiency (25-35%) and extremely expensive used in the satellite
industry.  This approach could potentially use a graded profile of indium
doping in a stack of junctions so that photons from the entire energy spectrum
will find their home at some point within the device.  I don't think this
approaches 90% (is that an exaggeration) but 75% may be doable.  This
technique would require an MBE (molecular beam epitaxy) which is a ridiculously
expensive ultra high vacuum deposition tool and material growth rates are
painfully slow so although it has the potential to make super PV cells don't
hold your breath to see them on the market.  General consensus is that the
viability point for the comercialization of solar power is somewhere at the
dollar per watt mark.  However these predictions were made based on some
standard economic benchmarks.  Due to what peak oil could do all bets are
off on this figure for the future.

Joe

Manzo, Emil wrote:



About 8-9 months ago I
read a report about a man who invented a process that yielded a high-efficiency
solar panel. Like 90%. The process reminded me of the way they make super high
density integrated circuits. His website was ardev.com and when I went back
again it went down (I think it’s some kind of flower site now). The
announcement said he refused to just sell off the patent because he wanted it
to actually be produced. He was teaming up with Westinghouse to produce the
solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this? Perhaps it was BS. 

 

Regards,

Emil

 

 



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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Brian Rodgers

"Oh well.  No good deed goes unpunished!"
Scary but true, Mike.
I have shifted my business to PC repair from a small DSL company
because most people use Microsoft products and the monopoly Qwest
killed the old business.
We live in the mountains a short distance from our business.
At the same time as I attempt to educate clients about the
vulnerabilities of Windows and install free protection software, I
also have taken the position that it is time to conserve fuel and get
back to nature with sustainable lifestyles.
I am beginning to see parallels with these two worlds. 

Most people don't want to hear about conservation at the cost of convenience.
Most of my clients don't want to take the time to learn another OS to
save themselves grief later. Seems like a Homer Simpson virus is going
around. "How much will it cost me right now?"
No future with this type of thinking.

I just had one of my newsletter readers stop by the shop to let me
know that I am wasting my time with all of these biofuel pipe dreams
.
Thanks, I needed to hear that again.
My wife in support said, "Never mind that Brian is researching
alternative fuels for all of us, He is also doing it for himself!"
Why is my peace of mind such a hard pill for others to swallow? 
I think they feel somehow that I am merely cheating.

I still buy petrol, but just by thinking that someday I will not need
to... I am getting one over on the rest of the sheep?
I think what I am doing is a positive effort toward a real future.
It isn't competitive.
Sustainable.
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

Why do you hate batteries? They are a needed device. I would rather have 
a hydrogen PEM fuel cell setup. Use wind
to feed a water seperation tank then feed the H2/O2 to the hPEM. Only 
use the hPEM when power beyond the wind
source is needed, or at locations remote from the wind fed grid.

Jeromie

Garth & Kim Travis wrote:

>Greetings,
>I hate batteries.  That is why I want a system that I can power with 
>methane if I need power when the sun is not shining.  I use almost no power 
>after the sun goes down, most of the year.  We do not watch tv or other 
>wasteful appetites for power, but, I do sometimes like to sew at night, so 
>having the option of turning the power on, I like.  Most people would be 
>unhappy with a system that I can live with, I don't mind a little 
>inconvenience, it just reminds me how lucky I am to have power.
>Bright Blessings,
>Kim
>
>At 09:17 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
>  
>
>>Garth & Kim Travis wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Greetings,
>>>
>>>I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that
>>>can also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is
>>>used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired.
>>>And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto
>>>of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.  Lots of
>>>overlap and back up.  If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat
>>>in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to figure out how to put a
>>>1/4 of a cow in there at a time.
>>>Bright Blessings,
>>>Kim
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is
>>going more toward solar heat.  A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled
>>10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror
>>salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are
>>integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to
>>electricity, but then the question arose, "do I really want to be
>>dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries?"  So the
>>system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that.  Then, draw
>>
>>
>>from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for
>  
>
>>water, or home space.  And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus
>>infrared rays and collect heat.  Solar panels tend to do less well with
>>clouds.
>>
>>doug swanson
>>
>>--
>>All generalizations are false.  Including this one.
>>
>>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>>
>>This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
>>No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
>>All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits.
>>
>>
>>___
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>>
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
>  
>


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[Biofuel] Mikes everywhere I look!

2005-08-30 Thread Douglas Smith

Mike someone wrote :

What!? I have kids!!?

I think Doug's got the wrong Mike on that quote (as Mike Weaver already noticed).

:-)

Mike

Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nah, the kids have their own room.

Douglas Smith wrote:

Michael Redler wrote:

"Uh oh. I'm cohabitating illegally. Wait'll I tell my GF. "

I'm sorry folks, I seem to have made a silly mistake. My apologies to both Mikes. It's always the details that screw us up, isn't it?  : )

Doug Smith
-
"Families is where our nation finds hope,
Where our wings take dream." – George W. Bush
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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

bob allen wrote:

>Howdy David,
>
>a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the 
>impoverished with taxes they didn't have before. 
>
See #2

> The flat tax also will 
>not address the flight of corporations to tax havens.
>
>flat tax- bad idea.
>  
>
Its a good idea. Yes it doesnt does it? Well simple to fix. "You do 
business in the USA? you pay
a flat tax on the money your company brings in" Easy isnt it? So what if 
your based outside the USA?
If anything for BEING based outside the borders you should pay MORE. 
Gives companies reason to
base at least some part of them selves in the USA (and that should mean 
more jobs, or at least more
job options). First thing we need to do is totaly clean slate the 
current setup and truely think of what
we want to have. Then lets make it happen (we the people are the bosses, 
arent we? Votes mean
something dont they? If not then give up, go home and cry cause we 
already lost that battle, pickup
your guns as its time to have another revolution)

>David M. Brockes wrote:
>  
>
>>This is why we need a "Flat Tax" system in this country for both Individual
>>and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
>>we have todayand most of us would probably pay less,
>>
>>
>
>if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more.  A 12% tax rate would 
>mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for 
>the rich persons reduction.
>  
>
#2
I about fell off my couch when I read this. The poor wont be paying for 
the rich to have a tax break. Flat
taxes would be fair, if I make $1, I pay XX%. Very simple. If I can 
figure out how to make $10 while you
can only figure out how to make $1, why should I have to give more then 
XX% of it over then you? Cause
your unable or unwilling to make more? Thats not right at all. A flat 
tax IS. Something that I have yet to see
is lets solve the real tax issue. IMNSHO the real issue is the goverment 
waste of money, tax breeaks to large
companies (normaly people who give donations to the right pockets) and 
other misguided efforts of people.
If we were to truely reform taxes to a flat tax (a good thing) it would 
mean we HAVE reformed the goverment
spending process (and a whole lot more)

Jeromie Reeves



>
>  but certainly
>  
>
>>everyone would pay a "fair" share.and think of all the savings there
>>would be from all the "extra" costs currently related to our Tax system!!
>>Just IMHO!!
>>Dave
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
>>
>>
>>It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
>>the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
>>(preferably not at all).
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

>
>
>:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads?
>  
>
Firefox (or any mozilia browser) + Slogger = Never lose a page and make 
your history fully searchable.
It is very handy and I find the ability to "take" my bookmarks with me.

Jeromie

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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Pieter Koole

No, I did not titrate, but made 9 batches of 20 ml in a tube, starting at 3½
gram / ltr of oil, next 4 grams per liter, 4½ grams/ltr etc. In this way I
have made a lot of BD now and it works fine.
There was no difference at all, they all turned hard and the color was like
coffee with milk.
The E900 so they call it, is added at a mixture of soja and palm oil or a
mixture of rapeseedoil and palm oil, at a rate of 3 ppm. There is nothing
else in it, so the manufacturer assured me.
When I try good oil from other restaurants, everything is fine, but as soon
as there is any oil from this man in it, I have the problems there.
Of course a solution would be to stop collecting oil from there, but many
restaurants use the same oil and they have the same scedule of renewing the
oil. They sell high quality chips and snacks and the last thing I expect is,
that they would use their oil too long.
So, I have no idea what is happening. Could it be something like polymeres ?
I don't know anything about polymeres, so maybe it's a stupid question.
Thanks all in advance.
Pieter.

Pieter, I agree with Kieth, it probably is not the anti-foaming agent
which is there in parts per million conc(?).  Have you titrated the
stuff? Maybe a very high free fatty acid content?  Or maybe it is all
saturated fat?  Another possibility is that something is extracted into
the cooking oil in significant quantities, which solidifies when it is
diluted with more oil?

Pieter Koole wrote:
> Thanks Keith,
> If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ?
> I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I
mix
> any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With "hard" I
mean
> as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly.
> Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will
> have to deal with this more and more in the future.
> Thanks again.
>
>
>>Dag Pieter
>>
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
>>>oil, well, that is what I thought.
>>>In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is
>>>dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake
>>>their chips.
>>
>>>From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to
>>
>>>make BD from it.
>>>Can anyone please help me ?
>>>Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900
>>>is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the
>>>future.
>>>E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n
>>
>>It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first
>>came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming
>>agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
>>proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe
>>they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your
>>biodiesel.
>>
>>Best wishes
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>
>>>Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
>>>Pieter Koole
>>>Netherlands
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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>>
>
>
>
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--
Bob Allen
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"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams... Oops, double post.

Sorry, the earlier posting (20:35:45) is incomplete, I had no idea it 
went out until I noticed the double post on the archives.

Keith,
It's hardly important, but I wondered if there is a simple way to toss 
duplicates and accidents from the archives?

Taryn
ornae.com


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[Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?

I live in South Florida, on high(ish) ground. Katrina came past and 
gave my neighborhood a little slap, on her way out to the warm gulf 
waters, where she organized into a cat 5 hurricane. Now 1.5 million 
people are homeless, jobless, and in shock, just from New Orleans 
alone. There's no guessing how many will be dead when all is accounted 
for.

Entrepreneurs and businesses  have always gone where the resources are. 
Regular folks follow behind because that's where the jobs are. 
Government comes along and surrounds a swamp with levees, and calls it 
a city. 
And of course the Army Corps of Engineers comes along and turns 2000 
miles of winding bottomland river into a 1000 mile ditch, contained 
(theoretically) by 14 meter levees.  Homes, factories, and farms fill 
the bottomland right up to the levies.

In a free society, you can't prevent people from trying to turn a swamp 
into a suburb, unless you buy the land and turn it into park or 
preserve. Ever since agriculture started on the Nile, we've known that 
flood plains are great places to grow crops, so you don't really want 
to take them out of production. Of course if you dam off the river, the 
plain is no longer renewed, topsoil leaches away, and the land starts 
to sink even lower.  Then there are lots of places in this country 
where the ONLY justification for building homes is gorgeous location, 
like Miami Beach and all the other sandbars on our Atlantic coast, or 
the muddy, fire prone hills above Los Angeles.

People have to find work, they have to live where they work. New 
Orleans grew where it did because it was a handy place for a port that 
served the Mississippi, there was rich fishing in the gulf, it was 
marginally drier than much of the wetland around it.
But, like Venice, it's been sinking since it was built, 
 and just 
like the proverbial frog in a slowly heating kettle, few have ever 
decided it was time to get out.

But you can't expect to live below sea level next to a sea, or on a 
flood plain, or a sand bar, or a muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, 
and be safe. Should governments issue building permits in swamps? 
Should insurance companies write fire policies on wooden houses in pine 
forests? Flood policies on swamps and flood plains? Should governments 
try to control mighty rivers from headwaters to delta, destroying 
wetlands and the buffering swamp?  Should governments dredge millions 
of tons of sand back onto the beaches of Miami every time a hurricane 
scours them out? Do citizens have a right to settle in the path of 
disaster? Does government have an obligation to make extraordinary 
efforts to save them from that disaster?

Whether we ever get New Orleans dry again, or not, perhaps it should be 
condemned as unfit for human habitation. Made partly into a memorial 
(To stubborn denial in the face of the obvious?) and the rest back to 
wetland. We certainly need the wetlands, and I'd bet that if the 
Mississippi was allowed to set her own course, in only a decade or two 
the entire bowl of New Orleans would become fine breeding grounds, once 
again filling the gulf with life.

I'm not sure I even know my own position on all this, but I've lived in 
the path of hurricanes for many years.  I can't help but stroll the 
beaches of our barrier islands, looking at houses and condos, built on 
SAND BARS, and ask, "Are these people nuts? How can they live here and 
expect sympathy and support when a storm sweeps the land right out from 
under them? What lunatic zoning board said it was alright to sell 
condos on sand bars?" The buildings do sit on pilings driven a dozen 
meters or more into our very soft bedrock, but that only means they 
might not wash away immediately, instead perching on stilts in the 
Atlantic ocean, when the storm moves the barrier island out from under 
them. And it will, sooner or later.

Taryn
ornae.com


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[Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?

I live in South Florida, on high(ish) ground. Katrina came past and 
gave my neighborhood a teeny slap, on her way out to the gulf. Now 1.5 
million people are homeless, jobless, and in shock, just from New 
Orleans alone.

Entrepreneurs and businesses  have always gone where the resources are. 
Regular folks follow behind because that's where the jobs are. 
Government comes along and surrounds a swamp with levees, and calls it 
a city. 
And of course the Army Corps of Engineers comes along and turns 1200 
miles of winding bottomland river into an 800 mile ditch, contained 
(theoretically) by 7 meter levees.  Homes, factories, and farms fill 
the bottomland right up to the levies.

In a free society, you can't prevent people from trying to turn a swamp 
into a suburb, unless you buy the land and turn it into park or 
wetlands. Ever since agriculture started on the Nile, we've known that 
flood plains are great places to grow crops, so you don't really want 
to take them out of production. There are lots of places in this 
country where the ONLY justification for building homes is gorgeous 
location, like Miami Beach and all the other sandbars on our Atlantic 
coast, or the muddy, fire prone hills above Los Angeles.

But you can't expect to live on a flood plain, or a sand bar, or a 
muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, and be safe. Should governments 
issue building permits in swamps? Should insurance companies write fire 
policies on wooden houses in pine forests? Flood policies on swamps and 
flood plains? Should governments try to control mighty rivers from 
headwaters to delta, destroying wetlands and buffering swamp?  Should 
governments dredge millions of tons of sand back onto the beaches of 
Miami every time a hurricane scours them out?

People have to find work, they have to live where they work, what can 
you do?

Taryn
ornae.com


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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread AntiFossil

Marty, and all,

I have to respectfully disagree with Bob C. on this one.  The days
of freebies are still very much alive!  It might just be an issue
of where you seek your freebies : )

Since approx. March of this year, I have been able to get 18 used water
heaters.  My only cost has been the time, and expense it takes to
go and pick them up from 3 different plumbing/hardware shops in my
local area.  Had I wanted them, I would estimate that I could have
had at least twice that many, although I would probably be divorced and
living out of them right now had I accepted them all.  There's
really no secret to getting as many as you need.  

For most folks, I would think that one or two tanks would fine, but
that would depend on your intentions.  Find a local plumbing shop,
or Hardware store (not a huge retail chain) that sells and installs
what they sell and ask them what they do with the old water heaters
that they remove during their installs.  In my part of the world,
two of the contractors bring the old water heaters back to their shops
and dump them out back.  Then, when this particular area get's
"full enough" they call the scrap man and he comes and hauls them all
away to the scrap metal yard for, as Bob C. noted, a fee.  If you
are willing to go and pick up a few of them for no fee, that's usually
great news to these pro's!  

Good luck hunting water heaters!

On 8/30/05, Marty Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks for the info.  My friend and I are going to do this.  I'd like tostart with a proven design and go from there and he has grand plans ofhow to do everything.  I really don't have room to do it and he does so
I need to give him leeway in the design.Bob Clark wrote:> Marty Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>>Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new
>heater.  How long can you expect it to last?>>Marty, and all>>I
am currently using six water heaters that have been "in service" for a
little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil
burner since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through
and/or burn out. I have several more used water heaters that I am in
the midst of converting for one project or another. ALL of the ones I
am using were used to start with. One had a small leak in the seam when
I originally obtained it, but I am lucky enough to have a complete
steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't too difficult. I
have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in to use as
pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired with
a modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would
be the ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I
keep a closer eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.>>In
our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including
water heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every
three months) so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the
collection date and pickup all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have
never used a new one for anything so can only guess about that, but my
thought would be this: each of the heater tanks I am using now had been
used for water heating for years before I got ahold of them. I KNOW
they have lasted from five years to nine years (and still counting) so
I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater tank should
easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to start
with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a
water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage
yard or dump. The days of 'freebies" from those kind of places are over
(at least everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get
five dollars tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for
ten bucks??? That would be a much smaller investment then a new water
heater. However, if you have some experience with your project already
and want to make sure you start with a good tank, maybe new would be
the way to go? I guess only you can make that choice, but based on my
own personal uses, a used tank will give you a good deal of service and
provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, I have built
several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in some
projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support
walls of a digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks,
but the old water heaters are still used regularly and are going fine.
To be fair, the two waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and
one eighty gallons) are only used "regularly" about four months each
year and then sporadically through the rest of the year. But on the
other hand, they also take the most abuse and extreme heat conditions.>>Hope
that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a
lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas
and plans from a Mother Earth News maga

Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Darryl McMahon

The best result will depend entirely on the specific circumstances.  Not all 
places 
boast good solar or wind energy resources.  Could be both, one or the other or 
neither in any specific location.  That requires analysis (data logging or 
existing 
insolation or wind maps can only provide information for a general area, not a 
specific point location).

That said, in general, I believe wind will be the primary sustainable source to 
watch in years to come.  Global dimming is a little-known, but recognized, 
phenomenon.  In much of the world, less insolation is reaching the earth's 
surface, 
which will impact conventional solar (PV) panels negatively.  However, global 
warming should mean that there will be more energy in the atmosphere, which 
lead to 
higher average winds around the planet.

Both sources have advantages and disadvantages.  Many people believe you should 
have both, to diversify your supply opportunities.  I still believe you should 
do 
the resource analysis for your location, and go with whichever will work best 
in 
your situation.  If you are blessed with both good solar and wind energy, then 
wind 
will likely provide more watt-hours for the money.

Darryl McMahon




From:   Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date sent:  Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:36:10 -0300
Subject:[Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
Send reply to:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org



> Hi All,  
> 
> If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense 
> to buy
> or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature 
> expected
> occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture
> evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do 
> you all
> think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from
> climate change.   
> 
> Tom Irwin 
>   _  
> 
>   From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
> 
> FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog of 
> orders.
> 
> Keith Addison wrote:
> 
> >Hi Darryl
> >
> >Very nice!
> >
> > 
> >
> >>I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point 
> >>is,
> >>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
> >
> >If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey 
> >to Forever for it, might help.
> >
> >It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work 
> >out that way I don't mind.
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >>Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
> >>gasoline stations up
> >>for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
> >>returns for their
> >>shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
> >>them. I won't
> >>be holding my breath.
> >>
> >>As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.
> >>
> >>If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever 
> >>reason,
> >>here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
> >>
> >>1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.
> >>
> >>2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local 
> >>FreeCycle, or bike
> >>repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and 
> >>practical for
> >>your use. Then use it.
> >>
> >>3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if 
> >>necessary. Slight
> >>overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation. Repeat
> >>monthly or more frequently if required.
> >>
> >>4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. 
> >>Check owner's
> >>manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control 
> >>system problems,
> >>etc while you are at it.
> >>
> >>5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
> >>
> >>6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.
> >>
> >>7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your 
> >>vehicle. There are
> >>many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE 
> >>dual-fuel incentive,
> >>where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable. Check 
> >>your
> >>vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate (or make 
> >>your
> >>own, of course).
> >>
> >>8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra 
> >>weight uses more
> >>energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. 
> >>(e.g. sand and salt
> >>mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).
> >>
> >>9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / 
> >>energy wise la

Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

2005-08-30 Thread Ray J

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol 
as "generally recognized as safe," which means that it is acceptable for 
use in flavorings, drugs, and cosmetics, and as a direct food additive.

*

  Ethylene glycol is only mildly irritating to mucous membranes or
  skin and is slowly and poorly absorbed through the skin.

* Ingestion is the most important exposure route. Dermal absorption
  is negligible and does not contribute significantly to systemic
  toxicity.
* Ethylene glycol is only mildly irritating to skin and mucous
  membranes and is not absorbed well through the skin or by inhalation.
* Ingestion of ethylene glycol produces CNS depression which may be
  accompanied by nausea, vomiting, and abdominal cramps.
* Metabolites of ethylene glycol produce severe metabolic acidosis
  and damage to the brain, heart, and kidneys.
* Severe poisoning is potentially fatal if treatment is inadequate
  or delayed.
* There are only a few reports on the adverse health effects in
  humans of chronic exposure to ethylene glycol. Irritation of the
  throat, mild headache, low backache, loss of consciousness, and
  nystagmus have been reported. These symptoms were resolved when
  the exposure ceased.
*

  Ethylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the
  amount of acid, resulting in metabolic problems. Similar to
  ethylene glycol, propylene glycol increases the amount of acid in
  the body. However, larger amounts of propylene glycol are needed
  to cause this effect.

*

  The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), the
  International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), and the EPA
  have not classified ethylene glycol and propylene glycol for
  carcinogenicity. Studies with people who used ethylene glycol did
  not show carcinogenic effects. Animal studies also have not shown
  these chemicals to be carcinogens.

Ray J

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg96.html
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts96.html

John Hayes wrote:

>Nancy Canning wrote:
>  
>
>>- Original Message - From: "John Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:01 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine
>>
>>
>>
>>>Nancy Canning wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Propylene glycol as it is used tons and tons of products including
industrial cleaners, shampoo's, toothpaste, creams,  etc.  It is very 
toxic,
the industry even has it in children's prescriptions. Wonder if this 
type of
propylene glycol has less poison/carcinogenic toxicity qualities vrs 
what is
out there right now?  Anybody have any info?

>>>Nancy.
>>>
>>>You are mistakenly confusing ethylene glycol with propylene glycol. Both
>>>can be used as antifreeze or deicers, but they have very different
>>>metabolic fates in the body. Thus, ethylene glycol is toxic while
>>>propylene glycol is food safe.
>>>  
>>>

>>>  
>>>
>>What is Propylene Glycol?
>> 
>>Propylene Glycol (PG, Polyethylene Glycol (PEG), Butylene Glycol (BG) 
>>and Ethylene Glycol (EG) are all petroleum derivatives that act as 
>>solvents, surfactants, and wetting agents.  They can easily penetrate 
>>the skin, and can weaken protein and cellular structure.  In fact, PG 
>>penetrates the skin so quickly that the EPA warns factory workers to 
>>avoid skin contact, to prevent brain, liver, and kidney abnormalities.  
>>PG is present in many stick deodorants, often in heavier concentration 
>>than in most industrial applications. (Nyack, Dr. Vin, Ph.D., 
>>Biochemist; personal communication). And Propylene Glycol is what is 
>>used to carry the "active" ingredients in those transdermal patches INTO 
>>YOUR BODY
>>Imagine a bottle of Anti-Freeze in a picture with shampoos, deodorants, 
>>cosmetics, lotions and toothpastes?
>>The question you should be asking is .. What's Anti-Freeze doing IN my 
>>shampoos, deodorants, cosmetics, lotions and toothpaste?
>>Yes, the main ingredient in anti-freeze is in all of these products.
>>Shocked?  You should be!
>>
>>
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html
>
>jh
>
>___
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

2005-08-30 Thread John Hayes

Nancy Canning wrote:
> - Original Message - From: "John Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine
> 
>> Nancy Canning wrote:
>>
>>> Propylene glycol as it is used tons and tons of products including
>>> industrial cleaners, shampoo's, toothpaste, creams,  etc.  It is very 
>>> toxic,
>>> the industry even has it in children's prescriptions. Wonder if this 
>>> type of
>>> propylene glycol has less poison/carcinogenic toxicity qualities vrs 
>>> what is
>>> out there right now?  Anybody have any info?
>>
>> Nancy.
>>
>> You are mistakenly confusing ethylene glycol with propylene glycol. Both
>> can be used as antifreeze or deicers, but they have very different
>> metabolic fates in the body. Thus, ethylene glycol is toxic while
>> propylene glycol is food safe.
>>
> What is Propylene Glycol?
>  
> Propylene Glycol (PG, Polyethylene Glycol (PEG), Butylene Glycol (BG) 
> and Ethylene Glycol (EG) are all petroleum derivatives that act as 
> solvents, surfactants, and wetting agents.  They can easily penetrate 
> the skin, and can weaken protein and cellular structure.  In fact, PG 
> penetrates the skin so quickly that the EPA warns factory workers to 
> avoid skin contact, to prevent brain, liver, and kidney abnormalities.  
> PG is present in many stick deodorants, often in heavier concentration 
> than in most industrial applications. (Nyack, Dr. Vin, Ph.D., 
> Biochemist; personal communication). And Propylene Glycol is what is 
> used to carry the "active" ingredients in those transdermal patches INTO 
> YOUR BODY
> Imagine a bottle of Anti-Freeze in a picture with shampoos, deodorants, 
> cosmetics, lotions and toothpastes?
> The question you should be asking is .. What's Anti-Freeze doing IN my 
> shampoos, deodorants, cosmetics, lotions and toothpaste?
> Yes, the main ingredient in anti-freeze is in all of these products.
> Shocked?  You should be!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html

jh

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Hakan Falk


Emil,

I think that you ca assume that it was BS, because to only to get a 
surface to absorb 90%, would be very difficult.  If you managed to 
absorb 90%, your conversion process to electricity would then have 
100% efficiency at always? Maybe the site do better in selling 
flowers. The highest serious numbers I have seen is 35-38% 
efficiency. The efficiency of currently mass produced common panels 
is 8-12%. This is lab data at 90 degree angle.

Hakan


At 19:02 30/08/2005, you wrote:
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="_=_NextPart_001_01C5AD84.A4B9BB88"
>
>About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a man who invented a 
>process that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The 
>process reminded me of the way they make super high density 
>integrated circuits. His website was ardev.com and when I went back 
>again it went down (I think it's some kind of flower site now). The 
>announcement said he refused to just sell off the patent because he 
>wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up with 
>Westinghouse to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something 
>more about this? Perhaps it was BS.
>
>Regards,
>Emil
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Japan - was Re: Problems, problems, problems

Hi Khamhiane,
If you happen to be anywhere near the SE US I can reccommend the 
Piedmont Biofuels tour.  They are quite friendly and put up with me 
asking them questions for hours.  There also quite a few other BD plants 
scattered in the US.

Good luck.

-Mike

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hello Khamhiane
>
>  
>
>>Dear Keith,
>>
>>I have followed your forum for a while.
>>
>>
>
>Well, it's its own forum really, I'm just one of the staff.
>
>  
>
>>You said that "It's used here in Japan too", is that mean you are 
>>currently in Japan?
>>
>>
>
>Yes, it says so on our home page. A lot of what we're doing here 
>isn't on our English website yet but that'll change soon. (Not just 
>biofuels.) You could check the Japanese website, but that's not 
>completely up-to-date either, nor does it cover everything we're 
>doing.
>
>  
>
>>The reason I asked is that if yes I would like to visite you to see 
>>physically your projects.
>>
>>
>
>I don't want to sound unwelcoming, but we're always busy here, we 
>work all the time, you might come a long way and then we'd have very 
>little time to spend with you. If it's biodiesel you're interested 
>in, we do hold seminars and workshops on biodiesel here (and 
>elsewhere) most months, the last one was 10 days ago, the next one is 
>on October 9. They're in Japanese, can you speak Japanese? Everything 
>else we do here is development work, it's really only the biodiesel 
>project that's open to the public in any way, and then only if you 
>come to a seminar. This place isn't intended to be a demonstration 
>farm or anything like that, it's where we work.
>
>If you do want to come, email me offlist, maybe we can arrange something.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>KYOTO Pref., Japan
>http://journeytoforever.org/
>
> 
>
>  
>
>>Thanks in advance
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Khamhiane
>>
>>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Dag Pieter
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
>>>oil, well, that is what I thought.
>>>  
>>>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>  
>


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[Biofuel] Simple twist of fate...

 From my limited experience in Latin America I always felt the EV's were 
making inroads because they had enough sense to actually have
local people in positions of authority, where as most (not all, Jaime 
Sin comes to mind) Catholic big-wigs were white.  I will say that when I 
was working in Africa the CRS people were very good.

Mike "Lapsed Unitarian" Weaver

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hello Taryn
>
>  
>
>>Hi Keith, et alii.
>>
>>On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam
>>>
>>>Did you read this?
>>>
>>>http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
>>>5-August/003230.html
>>>Or:
>>>http://snipurl.com/hb3u
>>>[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
>>>"Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
>>>Speak for Jesus"
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now
>>misplaced)
>>
>>
>
>:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads?
>
>  
>
>>led me to some striking information regarding the US's
>>post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.
>>Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and
>>liberation theology, in Latin American politics.
>>
>>Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites
>>accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then
>>to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing
>>together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war
>>Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist
>>in name only by the 1940s.
>>
>>
>
>Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the 
>original threads.
>
>It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died 
>mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd 
>forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist 
>theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John 
>Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech 
>Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed 
>Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What 
>happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were 
>the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a 
>side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in 
>Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting 
>comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd 
>bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.)
>
>I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I 
>thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and 
>powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic 
>Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could 
>perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of 
>development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we 
>got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion 
>or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert 
>Johnson made a better deal.
>
>I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that, 
>but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like.
>
>  
>
>>So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre
>>predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great
>>resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and
>>Pannirselvam. (and many others)
>>
>>
>
>Thanks to all!
>
>  
>
>>In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all
>>together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with
>>much funding from ARPA,
>>>Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency> which was created to respond
>>to "The Communist Threat". Now of course the internet is one of our
>>best tools for responding to the "Capitalist Threat".
>>
>>
>
>It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means. 
>Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I 
>don't like ploughs!)
>
>  
>
>>Regarding the "Clash of Civilisations", it's astonishing that
>>Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel,
>>have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of
>>a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone
>>perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' "Skinny
>>Legs and All".
>> I've re-read
>>this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is
>>illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff
>>before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g.
>>"Still Life with Woodpecker" or "Jitterbug Perfume", since his work is
>>rich and complex.
>>
>>
>
>Thankyou. Interesting reviews.
>
>You might find t

Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......

The US.  An 800 pound gorilla with a drinking problem.

I don't know any better Pan. I think you're right, and I think they
>made it a maximum of 10% with 90% gasoline, following a disgraceful
>disinformation campaign against ethanol. That was a couple of years
>ago, I think it's all in the list archives. I haven't followed it
>closely since then. Last I heard they were proposing big taxes on
>biodiesel, including homebrewers, but I don't know what's become of
>that either. Maybe this is what one should expect from the world's #1
>coal exporter and #2 global warming denier. Australians themselves
>are another matter, I don't know how long they'd accept this kind of
>treatment.


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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Garth & Kim Travis

Greetings,
I hate batteries.  That is why I want a system that I can power with 
methane if I need power when the sun is not shining.  I use almost no power 
after the sun goes down, most of the year.  We do not watch tv or other 
wasteful appetites for power, but, I do sometimes like to sew at night, so 
having the option of turning the power on, I like.  Most people would be 
unhappy with a system that I can live with, I don't mind a little 
inconvenience, it just reminds me how lucky I am to have power.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 09:17 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
>Garth & Kim Travis wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that
> > can also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is
> > used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired.
> > And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto
> > of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.  Lots of
> > overlap and back up.  If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat
> > in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to figure out how to put a
> > 1/4 of a cow in there at a time.
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Kim
> >
>A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is
>going more toward solar heat.  A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled
>10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror
>salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are
>integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to
>electricity, but then the question arose, "do I really want to be
>dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries?"  So the
>system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that.  Then, draw
>from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for
>water, or home space.  And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus
>infrared rays and collect heat.  Solar panels tend to do less well with
>clouds.
>
>doug swanson
>
>--
>All generalizations are false.  Including this one.
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
>No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
>All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits.
>
>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels





I wonder if it had to do with Gallium Indium Nitride?  Check this
link  
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell.html
In a nutshell it works by varying the doping level of indium in Gallium
Nitride so as to smoothly taper the bandgap of the material from low to
high energy.  This is a step beyond the multijunction cells which are
the highest efficiency (25-35%) and extremely expensive used in the
satellite industry.  This approach could potentially use a graded
profile of indium doping in a stack of junctions so that photons from
the entire energy spectrum will find their home at some point within
the device.  I don't think this approaches 90% (is that an
exaggeration) but 75% may be doable.  This technique would require an
MBE (molecular beam epitaxy) which is a ridiculously expensive ultra
high vacuum deposition tool and material growth rates are painfully
slow so although it has the potential to make super PV cells don't hold
your breath to see them on the market.  General consensus is that the
viability point for the comercialization of solar power is somewhere at
the dollar per watt mark.  However these predictions were made based on
some standard economic benchmarks.  Due to what peak oil could do all
bets are off on this figure for the future.

Joe

Manzo, Emil wrote:

  
  
  
  
  About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a
man who invented a process
that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The process
reminded me
of the way they make super high density integrated circuits. His
website was
ardev.com and when I went back again it went down (I think it’s some
kind
of flower site now). The announcement said he refused to just sell off
the
patent because he wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up
with Westinghouse
to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this?
Perhaps it
was BS. 
   
  Regards,
  Emil
   
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

I haven't heard of anything much higher than 30 percent efficient.
 
Mike
 
See also:
 
"An unexpected discovery could yield a full spectrum solar cell"Nov 18, 2002  http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-full-spectrum-solar-cell.html A Step Closer to the Optimum Solar Cell March 24, 2004  http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/sb-MSD-multibandsolar-panels.html"Manzo, Emil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a man who invented a process that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The process reminded me of the way they make super high density integrated circuits. His website was ardev.com and when I went back again it went down (I think its some kind of flower site now). The announcement said he refused to just sell off the patent because he wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up with Westinghouse to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this? Perhaps it was BS. 
 
Regards,
Emil
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread des

Garth & Kim Travis wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that 
> can also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is 
> used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired.  
> And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto 
> of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.  Lots of 
> overlap and back up.  If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat 
> in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to figure out how to put a 
> 1/4 of a cow in there at a time.
> Bright Blessings,
> Kim
>
A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is 
going more toward solar heat.  A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled 
10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror 
salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are 
integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to 
electricity, but then the question arose, "do I really want to be 
dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries?"  So the 
system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that.  Then, draw 
from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for 
water, or home space.  And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus 
infrared rays and collect heat.  Solar panels tend to do less well with 
clouds.

doug swanson

-- 
All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. 


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Re: [Biofuel] Bush's Obscene Tirades

2005-08-30 Thread Brian Rodgers

a friend sent me this. Keep in mind, it's from a liberal Web site. But
even if only part of it is true, it's still pretty scary.
 
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7267.shtml

Bush's Obscene Tirades Rattle White House Aides
By DOUG THOMPSON
Aug 25, 2005, 06:19
   
While President George W. Bush travels around the country in a
last-ditch effort to sell his Iraq war, White House aides scramble
frantically behind the scenes to hide the dark mood of an increasingly
angry leader who unleashes obscenity-filled outbursts at anyone who
dares disagree with him.

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Re: [Biofuel] How much?

The price for soy says 23'10.  I would assume that's $0.2310/#.


Appal Energy wrote:

>Marty,
>
>Commodities such as vegetable oils and animal phats are sold by the 
>pound weight. Search the Chicago Board of Trade for pricing and then 
>convert to gallons using the multiplier of ~7.6#s per gallon.
>
>Todd Swearingen
>
>Marty Phee wrote:
>
>  
>
>>How much is a bbl of say soy oil or palm oil.  I'm not sure where to 
>>look online.  bbls of this oil are 55gals right?  Not the 42gals of 
>>crude oil.
>>
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[Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Manzo, Emil









About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a man who invented a process
that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The process reminded me
of the way they make super high density integrated circuits. His website was
ardev.com and when I went back again it went down (I think it’s some kind
of flower site now). The announcement said he refused to just sell off the
patent because he wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up with Westinghouse
to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this? Perhaps it
was BS. 

 

Regards,

Emil

 






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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

2005-08-30 Thread Brian Rodgers

Damn. I wish people would check validity of stuff before they send it
around. I have received one or two per day of these bogus emails about
sticking it up their collective behinds. I wish more people would
write something, anything in their own words and send it around to all
their friends. Internet Chain Letters, Yuk.
As mentioned here, it is simple to check out a story for rumor content
at www.snopes.com
I really like the way Barbara Mikkelson writes.
 Fun informative and she doesn't make you feel like you are an idiot.
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......

Hello Pannirselvam

It's always a pleasure to read your posts, thankyou!

>   Keith Thanks for your information

You're welcome.

>   Even though ,   there  are  several  well  established 
>technology  that can be used to  make   waste  into fuel  and hence 
>also food  by  small scale biorefinary  in almost all countries, yet 
>economically  grown  country  is  moving very slow  in this  sector .

Yes, aren't they. It's one reason I long ago stopped calling them the 
"developed" countries. They're beginning to need *real* technology to 
face a real future, but they can't back out of the blind alleys their 
misdevelopment has led them into, they can't develop appropriate 
technology out of the over-developed, centralised and resource-hungry 
herds of technological white elephants they have now, and they can't 
"leapfrog" it all either like so many 3rd World countries are doing. 
(Such as who needs a billion-dollar telecommunications infrastructure 
anyway, just get mobiles and a cheap satellite, and so on.) So 
they're stuck, and we're not. And indeed it's their Big Blue 
corporations and corrupt politics that are keeping them stuck, that's 
how the powers-that-be want it, and they think they're omnipotent 
enough to go on shaping the future their way.

I don't think they can stop the green way of sustainable living, 
locally or globally, though I'm sure they think they can. But it's 
happening anyway, and worldwide opposition has got them on the 
defensive or on the retreat on just about every front (though it 
might not look that way at first glance).

>After reading  your e mail
>I now  understand well  why our list members  need  to include the 
>biofuel problems linked to all political  and global world  issues 
>.The very big  corporate production  model adopted by the  Canada 
>and Australia   not following  decentralised  biofuel projects 
>based on their plentiful  renewable resources  can be  surely due to 
>too  big blue  Corporate companies  and their  corrupted politics 
>not  allowing  the green way  of sustainable  path  for the local 
>and global  developments.
>How  an small farmer can use ethanol if the  economically well 
>designed car  is not available in several  countries but made 
>possible  in Brazil. Brazilian government has to put huge amount of 
>money for research to make  the big Multinational Corporate  all the 
>Car company earlier in 1980 , now they all fighting with one another 
>to  make flexible biofuel car to run simultaneously ,natural 
>gas(biogas) , alcohol and  gasoline.We can send  details about the 
>Brasilian ethanol car

Please do!

>and I beleive that car can be modified  to run with etanol  based on 
>the information  in the internet with especialized people.
>I am sure waste vegetable oil can also  make  this  biofuel car more 
>flexible .
>May be Brazil can export the car  and combustible  to  the 
>developing world where the speed and luxury  is not the matter but 
>biofuel is very  far away the common man .Thus biofuel can be 
>practical solution to get away poverty and  dependence of poor on 
>rich.

I'm sure you're right, South-South trade. Do you think India might 
soon be in a similar position? South Africa is another possibility a 
bit further down the road, and so is China I suppose.

Regards

Keith


>Kind regards to all our list members
>
>
>sd
>Pannir selvam  P.V
>Brasil
>
>
>On 8/27/05, Keith Addison 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>wrote:
>
>Dear Pannirselvam
>
> >Dear  Wdt
> >
> >
> >   As motor made in Brasil to run on ethanol  has  engine design
> >with higher compression than gasoline  car , you  can think of
> >importing  the same  as the technology envolves  not only the engine
> >, but also several other parts of the car.As I understand , may be
> >Keith knows much better , the  bioethanol fuel  programme made in
> >Australia is not yet made  suceeesful one.
>
>I don't know any better Pan. I think you're right, and I think they
>made it a maximum of 10% with 90% gasoline, following a disgraceful
>disinformation campaign against ethanol. That was a couple of years
>ago, I think it's all in the list archives. I haven't followed it
>closely since then. Last I heard they were proposing big taxes on
>biodiesel, including homebrewers, but I don't know what's become of
>that either. Maybe this is what one should expect from the world's #1
>coal exporter and #2 global warming denier. Australians themselves
>are another matter, I don't know how long they'd accept this kind of
>treatment.
>
>Regards
>
>Keith
>
>
> >   Regrading making etanol from  waste orange we  can help you  as
> >this can be made  using simple  technology
> >
> >sd
> >Pannirselvam
> >Brasil
> >
> >On 8/26/05, Wireless Data Transfer
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Hello there! This is the second time I post this question, since
> >nobody responded to the first time

[Biofuel] Japan - was Re: Problems, problems, problems

Hello Khamhiane

>Dear Keith,
>
>I have followed your forum for a while.

Well, it's its own forum really, I'm just one of the staff.

>You said that "It's used here in Japan too", is that mean you are 
>currently in Japan?

Yes, it says so on our home page. A lot of what we're doing here 
isn't on our English website yet but that'll change soon. (Not just 
biofuels.) You could check the Japanese website, but that's not 
completely up-to-date either, nor does it cover everything we're 
doing.

>The reason I asked is that if yes I would like to visite you to see 
>physically your projects.

I don't want to sound unwelcoming, but we're always busy here, we 
work all the time, you might come a long way and then we'd have very 
little time to spend with you. If it's biodiesel you're interested 
in, we do hold seminars and workshops on biodiesel here (and 
elsewhere) most months, the last one was 10 days ago, the next one is 
on October 9. They're in Japanese, can you speak Japanese? Everything 
else we do here is development work, it's really only the biodiesel 
project that's open to the public in any way, and then only if you 
come to a seminar. This place isn't intended to be a demonstration 
farm or anything like that, it's where we work.

If you do want to come, email me offlist, maybe we can arrange something.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

>Thanks in advance
>
>Best regards,
>Khamhiane
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Dag Pieter
>
> >Hello all,
> >I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
> >oil, well, that is what I thought.

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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

Hello Taryn

>Hi Keith, et alii.
>
>On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>
> > Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam
> >
> > Did you read this?
> >
> > http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
> > 5-August/003230.html
> > Or:
> > http://snipurl.com/hb3u
> > [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
> > "Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
> > Speak for Jesus"
> >
>
>Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now
>misplaced)

:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads?

> led me to some striking information regarding the US's
>post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.
>Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and
>liberation theology, in Latin American politics.
>
>Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites
>accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then
>to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing
>together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war
>Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist
>in name only by the 1940s.

Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the 
original threads.

It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died 
mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd 
forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist 
theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John 
Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech 
Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed 
Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What 
happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were 
the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a 
side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in 
Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting 
comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd 
bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.)

I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I 
thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and 
powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic 
Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could 
perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of 
development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we 
got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion 
or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert 
Johnson made a better deal.

I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that, 
but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like.

>So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre
>predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great
>resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and
>Pannirselvam. (and many others)

Thanks to all!

>In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all
>together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with
>much funding from ARPA,
>Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency> which was created to respond
>to "The Communist Threat". Now of course the internet is one of our
>best tools for responding to the "Capitalist Threat".

It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means. 
Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I 
don't like ploughs!)

>Regarding the "Clash of Civilisations", it's astonishing that
>Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel,
>have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of
>a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone
>perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' "Skinny
>Legs and All".
> I've re-read
>this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is
>illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff
>before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g.
>"Still Life with Woodpecker" or "Jitterbug Perfume", since his work is
>rich and complex.

Thankyou. Interesting reviews.

You might find this interesting, though probably the only thing it 
has in common with "Skinny Legs and All" is the Middle East and the 
Arabs:

21. A Kingdom of Agricultural Art in Europe
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_21.html

22. An Historical Reconstruction
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_22.html

>Again, thanks to all here who help us see past the veils, to a larger
>world.

Thanks indeed.

(And yes indeed, "Get a Mac"!)

Best wishes

Keith

>Taryn
>ornae.com
>
> > I was wanting to say something about l

Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Garth & Kim Travis



Greetings,
I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that can
also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is
used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home
repaired.  And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run
off the pto of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car. 
Lots of overlap and back up.  If one part of the system
malfunctions, the meat in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to
figure out how to put a 1/4 of a cow in there at a time.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 10:52 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
content-class:
urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="_=_NextPart_001_01C5AD7A.C1E61968"
You need both
 
Wind and solar.
 
Chances are when it is windy the clouds maybe covering the nuclear
reactor.
 
When its sunny no wind.
 
You need BOTH
 
Mel
 
Who has had a little experience with an AWP turbine.
 
But my next one is a bergey 10kw
 
Ohh.
 
-Original Message-
From: Tom Irwin
[
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:36 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
 
Hi All,
 
If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more
sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the
temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from
all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising
ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in
some areas and should only increase from climate change. 
 
Tom Irwin 


 



From: Mike Weaver
[
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog
of 

orders.

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hi Darryl

>

>Very nice!

>

> 

>

>>I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list
above. My point is,

>>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.

>> 

>>

>

>I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.

>

>If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at
Journey 

>to Forever for it, might help.

>

>It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't
work 

>out that way I don't mind.

>

>Best wishes

>

>Keith

>

>

>

> 

>

>>Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their


>>gasoline stations up

>>for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize
the 

>>returns for their

>>shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to
dump 

>>them. I won't

>>be holding my breath.

>>

>>As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out
here before.

>>

>>If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for
whatever reason,

>>here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.

>>

>>1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler
parked.

>>

>>2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local


>>FreeCycle, or bike

>>repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something
comfortable and 

>>practical for

>>your use. Then use it.

>>

>>3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct
if 

>>necessary. Slight

>>overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight
underinflation. Repeat

>>monthly or more frequently if required.

>>

>>4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate
schedule. 

>>Check owner's

>>manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions
control 

>>system problems,

>>etc while you are at it.

>>

>>5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip
chaining).

>>

>>6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or
carpool.

>>

>>7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your


>>vehicle. There are

>>many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE


>>dual-fuel incentive,

>>where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel
capable. Check your

>>vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or
appropriate 

>>(or make your

>>own, of course).

>>

>>8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating
extra 

>>weight uses more

>>energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake
wear. 

>>(e.g. sand and salt

>>mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer
as well).

>>

>>9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser
/ 

>>energy wise labels.

>>

>>10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for
something 

>>that is as fuel-

>>efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not


>>necessarily all of

>>your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional
requirements.

>>

>>11) If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil
company 

>>to boycott or

>>support. Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they
are 

>>local and have

>>been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was
fashionable. I boycott

>>Exxon/Esso/Imperial O

Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread Fred Enga




No, 
That would be MMT, a manganese based octane improver used instead of lead.  
It has less harmful effects than lead, but is still bad.
 
Cheers
 
Fred 
Enga

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Joe 
  StreetSent: August 30, 2005 6:36 AMTo: 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on 
  MTBEI remember hearing something about toxic fuel 
  additives here in Canada years ago.  The story was basically that an 
  additive was known to be harmful and present in exhaust emissions (or some 
  harmful byproduct of combustion of the additive) and it was still being used 
  and the manufacturer was aware of it but declined to comment.  The 
  company was Ethyl corporation.  I just checked their website( http://www.ethyl.com/Operations/index.htm 
  ) but they don't say anything much other than listing gasoline performance 
  additives as a product.  Is it MTBE?  does anyone 
  know?Joesubramanian D.V wrote:
  
Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies 
are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names "extra mile", 
"speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors are unable to say 
what is the additive. The marketing company websites are equally vague. And 
now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added 
petrol is suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it. 

 
Regards
 
SubramanianKeith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
Hello 
  SubramanianNot of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be 
  useful - factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate 
  additive:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.htmlMTBE 
  Fact SheetBest wishesKeith>Hello 
  Members,>>MTBE – Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate 
  for blending with >gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad 
  reputation quickly >because of its capacity for polluting the 
  environment and affecting >human beings. I understand that the 
  groundwater in most parts of US >has been polluted with MTBE to 
  varying degrees; it was banned in >certain States of US for mixing 
  with gasoline.>>It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. 
  Can any of you tell me >what could be the possible use of MTBE 
  other than as an oxygenate >additive when a reputed oil refining 
  and marketing company buys 10 >tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I 
  want to be doubly sure before >raising this in the Indian 
  Press.Thank 
  you.>>Regards,>>Subramanian___Biofuel 
  mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch 
  the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
  messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


Start 
your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

Tom,
In my opinion, one shouldn't be choosing and committing to a particular form of alternative/sustainable energy when trying to live sustainably on your own power. Our homes need to be seen as hybrids and should be constantly diversifying and prioritizing based on your needs, resources and abilities.
When your thoughts "go toward wind", it leads me to believe that you are prepared to do both but, need to prioritize. So, the top paragraph is probably nothing new to you and I apologize if I sound like I'm lecturing. I still wanted to reiterate my point since (IMO) it speaks to an important issue in US culture about complacency and how oil has promoted a philosophy of solving "the problem" with "the answer".
...my $.02
MikeTom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi All,
If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change.
Tom Irwin ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind










You need both

 

Wind and solar.

 

Chances are when it is windy the clouds
maybe covering the nuclear reactor.

 

When it’s sunny no wind.

 

You need BOTH

 

Mel

 

Who has had a little experience with an
AWP turbine.

 

But my next one is a bergey
10kw

 

Ohh….

 

-Original Message-
From: Tom Irwin
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005
10:36 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Solar panals or
wind

 



Hi All,





 





If climate change occurs from
global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better.
My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will
have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the
atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can
be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change. 





 





Tom Irwin 





 







From: Mike
Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33
-0300
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1
declared no buy gas day

FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog
of 
orders.

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hi Darryl
>
>Very nice!
>
> 
>
>>I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My
point is,
>>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
>> 
>>
>
>I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
>
>If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey 
>to Forever for it, might help.
>
>It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work 
>out that way I don't mind.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> 
>
>>Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
>>gasoline stations up
>>for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
>>returns for their
>>shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
>>them. I won't
>>be holding my breath.
>>
>>As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.
>>
>>If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever
reason,
>>here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
>>
>>1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.
>>
>>2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local 
>>FreeCycle, or bike
>>repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and 
>>practical for
>>your use. Then use it.
>>
>>3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if 
>>necessary. Slight
>>overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation.
Repeat
>>monthly or more frequently if required.
>>
>>4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. 
>>Check owner's
>>manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control 
>>system problems,
>>etc while you are at it.
>>
>>5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
>>
>>6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.
>>
>>7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your 
>>vehicle. There are
>>many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE 
>>dual-fuel incentive,
>>where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable.
Check your
>>vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate 
>>(or make your
>>own, of course).
>>
>>8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra 
>>weight uses more
>>energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. 
>>(e.g. sand and salt
>>mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).
>>
>>9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / 
>>energy wise labels.
>>
>>10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something 
>>that is as fuel-
>>efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not 
>>necessarily all of
>>your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.
>>
>>11) If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company 
>>to boycott or
>>support. Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are 
>>local and have
>>been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was fashionable. I
boycott
>>Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record 
>>(and other
>>undesirable practices). Trust me, if we actually managed to drop 
>>Exxon's gross
>>revenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would 
>>definitely get their
>>attention. Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet day
won't.
>>
>>12) Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion. You get 0 mpg
when
>>idling in stopped traffic.
>>
>>I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My
point is,
>>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
>>
>>Darryl McMahon
>>
>>
>>
>>"mphee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>>Station owners really don't make much money off of gas. Their 
>>> 
>>>
>>lucky to make a
>> 
>>
>>>nickel a gallon. They make their money on

Re: [Biofuel] How much?

2005-08-30 Thread Appal Energy

Marty,

Commodities such as vegetable oils and animal phats are sold by the 
pound weight. Search the Chicago Board of Trade for pricing and then 
convert to gallons using the multiplier of ~7.6#s per gallon.

Todd Swearingen

Marty Phee wrote:

>How much is a bbl of say soy oil or palm oil.  I'm not sure where to 
>look online.  bbls of this oil are 55gals right?  Not the 42gals of 
>crude oil.
>
>___
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>
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>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
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>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Oil Question


Anyone know where I could buy 300 gallons of canola?


John Wilson wrote:

>Hi Mike,
>  I got the price
>from:http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=commodities&nopu=uCCKBtzSc1ihTGQhlEp7%2F
>WRKB3rpHYZsUyZ%2BHa3JDSl3LP8JS69FS5tYIU7PHr%2FQ
>I see this morning Jan Canola futures are trading at 294.  I think that was
>a mistake on my part it said Canola(WCE) and not Canola oil. I think the
>price is for pre pressed canola seed and not canola oil.
>Yours truly
>John Wilson
>***
>Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
>Goldens
>Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
>Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
> Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
>Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
> http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm
>
>In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
>After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
>^
>Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

Besides, we already have a "Flat Head Tax" in most states.  It's called 
the lottery.  It's a tax on stupid people, and it falls unfairly on 
those least able to afford it.

bob allen wrote:

>Howdy David,
>
>a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the 
>impoverished with taxes they didn't have before.  The flat tax also will 
>not address the flight of corporations to tax havens.
>
>flat tax- bad idea.
>
>David M. Brockes wrote:
>  
>
>>This is why we need a "Flat Tax" system in this country for both Individual
>>and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
>>we have todayand most of us would probably pay less,
>>
>>
>
>if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more.  A 12% tax rate would 
>mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for 
>the rich persons reduction.
>
>
>  but certainly
>  
>
>>everyone would pay a "fair" share.and think of all the savings there
>>would be from all the "extra" costs currently related to our Tax system!!
>>Just IMHO!!
>>Dave
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
>>
>>
>>It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
>>the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
>>(preferably not at all).
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

Don't laugh.  Anything could happen under this regime.  I personally 
will never ever take up arms against Canada but be don't surprised
if you start to see Canada (surely our greatest friend in the world) 
demonized in the next 10 years as a pretext to invasion.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>no doubt under the pretext of liberating the canadian people from the 
>injustice of a universal health care system.
>
>-chris b.
>
>In a message dated 8/24/05 7:46:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< Suppose Canada decides that it will demand (which is 
>our right) what it wants for that oil?. . .How little will it take before 
>american troops 
>show up to 'restore order' in our sovereign lands. >>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

Except the loss of a pilot is most likely accompanied by the loss of an 
aircraft so when they are all gone what good does it do to have a bunch 
of trained pilots standing around with nothing to fly??

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>actually, from a strategic military standpoint, this is an extremely wise 
>practice.  in any high attrition conflict (read:  protracted a/o bloody war), 
>the 
>human resources are depleted well before the hardware.  trained pilots are 
>about the most difficult personnel to replace and their loss represents a loss 
>in capability many timers greater than does the loss of other service 
>personnel.
>
>-chris b.
>
>
>In a message dated 8/24/05 2:50:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><<>
>
>
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>  
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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

LOL true we need someone to save us from a certain slow agonizing death 
in a hospital waiting room.
A student of this university died recently after turning away from a 
huge waiting line with a case of viral meningitis. This is outrageous 
especially in a country where we pay so much tax.  So much of that money 
is being wasted rather than making it to the areas that really need it 
like a reform of our healthcare system.

Ahhh don't get me goin

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>no doubt under the pretext of liberating the canadian people from the 
>injustice of a universal health care system.
>
>-chris b.
>
>In a message dated 8/24/05 7:46:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< Suppose Canada decides that it will demand (which is 
>our right) what it wants for that oil?. . .How little will it take before 
>american troops 
>show up to 'restore order' in our sovereign lands. >>
>
>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread capt3d

actually, from a strategic military standpoint, this is an extremely wise 
practice.  in any high attrition conflict (read:  protracted a/o bloody war), 
the 
human resources are depleted well before the hardware.  trained pilots are 
about the most difficult personnel to replace and their loss represents a loss 
in capability many timers greater than does the loss of other service personnel.

-chris b.


In a message dated 8/24/05 2:50:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<>


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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

http://linuxrouter.org/

Greg and April wrote:

>Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed.
>
>Greg H.
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
>
>
>  
>
>>You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>  
>


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[Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Tom Irwin





Hi All,
 
If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change. 
 
Tom Irwin 


From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas dayFWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog of orders.Keith Addison wrote:>Hi Darryl>>Very nice!>> >>>I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point is,>>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.>> I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.>>If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey >to Forever for it, might help.>>It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work >out that way I don't mind.>>Best wishes>>Keith >>>Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their >>gasoline stations up>>for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the >>returns for their>>shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump >>them. I won't>>be holding my breath.As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever reason,>>here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local >>FreeCycle, or bike>>repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and >>practical for>>your use. Then use it.3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if >>necessary. Slight>>overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation. Repeat>>monthly or more frequently if required.4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. >>Check owner's>>manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control >>system problems,>>etc while you are at it.5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your >>vehicle. There are>>many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE >>dual-fuel incentive,>>where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable. Check your>>vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate >>(or make your>>own, of course).8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra >>weight uses more>>energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. >>(e.g. sand and salt>>mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / >>energy wise labels.10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something >>that is as fuel->>efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not >>necessarily all of>>your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.11) If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company >>to boycott or>>support. Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are >>local and have>>been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was fashionable. I boycott>>Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record >>(and other>>undesirable practices). Trust me, if we actually managed to drop >>Exxon's gross>>revenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would >>definitely get their>>attention. Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet day won't.12) Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion. You get 0 mpg when>>idling in stopped traffic.I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point is,>>don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.Darryl McMahon"mphee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >Station owners really don't make much money off of gas. Their >>> >lucky to make a>> >nickel a gallon. They make their money on what's called C-Store sales.>>If more people could take public transportation it would help greatly.>Funny tidbit. BP says they loose money on their gas stations, $100mil last>>>year. You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you >>> >delivery it, and you>> >sell it. How do you loose money when you control all aspects of >>> >it. Just by>> >vertues of econmies of scale you have to make money.>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:46:25 GMT, marilyn wrote>>> >>>effort to take public transportation for a whole month.Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:"This is mostly an incorrect rumor.

Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

Thanks for the info.  My friend and I are going to do this.  I'd like to 
start with a proven design and go from there and he has grand plans of 
how to do everything.  I really don't have room to do it and he does so 
I need to give him leeway in the design.


Bob Clark wrote:

> Marty Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
>heater.  How long can you expect it to last?
>
>Marty, and all
>
>I am currently using six water heaters that have been "in service" for a 
>little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil burner 
>since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or burn out. I 
>have several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of converting for 
>one project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used to start with. 
>One had a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained it, but I am lucky 
>enough to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't 
>too difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in 
>to use as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired 
>with a modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would be 
>the ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I keep a 
>closer eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.
>
>In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including water 
>heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three months) 
>so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date and pickup 
>all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for anything so 
>can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of the heater 
>tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years before I got 
>ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine years (and 
>still counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater 
>tank should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to 
>start with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a 
>water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage yard or 
>dump. The days of 'freebies" from those kind of places are over (at least 
>everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get five dollars 
>tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for ten bucks??? That 
>would be a much smaller investment then a new water heater. However, if you 
>have some experience with your project already and want to make sure you start 
>with a good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I guess only you can make 
>that choice, but based on my own personal uses, a used tank will give you a 
>good deal of service and provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, 
>I have built several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in 
>some projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support walls 
>of a digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old 
>water heaters are still used regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two 
>waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only 
>used "regularly" about four months each year and then sporadically through the 
>rest of the year. But on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and 
>extreme heat conditions.
>
>Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a 
>lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and 
>plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of 
>people that have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' 
>only started in 1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.
>
>Bob C.
>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

Howdy David,

a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the 
impoverished with taxes they didn't have before.  The flat tax also will 
not address the flight of corporations to tax havens.

flat tax- bad idea.

David M. Brockes wrote:
> This is why we need a "Flat Tax" system in this country for both Individual
> and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
> we have todayand most of us would probably pay less,

if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more.  A 12% tax rate would 
mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for 
the rich persons reduction.


  but certainly
> everyone would pay a "fair" share.and think of all the savings there
> would be from all the "extra" costs currently related to our Tax system!!
> Just IMHO!!
> Dave
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
> 
> 
> It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
> the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
> (preferably not at all).
> 



-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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[Biofuel] Oil Question

2005-08-30 Thread John Wilson

Hi Mike,
  I got the price
from:http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=commodities&nopu=uCCKBtzSc1ihTGQhlEp7%2F
WRKB3rpHYZsUyZ%2BHa3JDSl3LP8JS69FS5tYIU7PHr%2FQ
I see this morning Jan Canola futures are trading at 294.  I think that was
a mistake on my part it said Canola(WCE) and not Canola oil. I think the
price is for pre pressed canola seed and not canola oil.
Yours truly
John Wilson
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
Goldens
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
 Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm

In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
^
Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)


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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

Pieter, I agree with Kieth, it probably is not the anti-foaming agent 
which is there in parts per million conc(?).  Have you titrated the 
stuff? Maybe a very high free fatty acid content?  Or maybe it is all 
saturated fat?  Another possibility is that something is extracted into 
the cooking oil in significant quantities, which solidifies when it is 
diluted with more oil?


Pieter Koole wrote:
> Thanks Keith,
> If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ?
> I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I mix
> any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With "hard" I mean
> as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly.
> Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will
> have to deal with this more and more in the future.
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
>>Dag Pieter
>>
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
>>>oil, well, that is what I thought.
>>>In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is
>>>dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake
>>>their chips.
>>
>>>From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to
>>
>>>make BD from it.
>>>Can anyone please help me ?
>>>Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900
>>>is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the
>>>future.
>>>E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n
>>
>>It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first
>>came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming
>>agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
>>proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe
>>they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your
>>biodiesel.
>>
>>Best wishes
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>
>>>Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
>>>Pieter Koole
>>>Netherlands
>>
>>
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-- 
Bob Allen
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"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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[Biofuel] How much?

How much is a bbl of say soy oil or palm oil.  I'm not sure where to 
look online.  bbls of this oil are 55gals right?  Not the 42gals of 
crude oil.

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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread capt3d

no doubt under the pretext of liberating the canadian people from the 
injustice of a universal health care system.

-chris b.

In a message dated 8/24/05 7:46:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Suppose Canada decides that it will demand (which is 
our right) what it wants for that oil?. . .How little will it take before 
american troops 
show up to 'restore order' in our sovereign lands. >>


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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

I spent 5 years trying to move my clients to Linux for their servers.  
Mostly I succeded.  I haven't had much luck with
Linux on the desktop, and have pretty much given up the figt, which is 
funny because it's about where it needs to be!
I think OSX is the best thing going and use it for my graphics stuff.  
Unfortunately I make my living fixing Windows.
It used to upset me but not I just bill them and move on.

Oh well.  No good deed goes unpunished!

TarynToo wrote:

>On Aug 30, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I totally agree.  My only complaint w/ Linux is that after I install a
>>Linux/Samba server, I never see the client again!  I have servers
>>running over 600 days.
>>I make my living on (ick!) Windows machines.  They blow up all the 
>>time.
>>
>>
>
>ROFL Mike! I've been watching the linux/win debate shaping up here on 
>the list and trying to stay out of it. After all how many religious 
>wars can one woman get into at the same time?  I use Linux or BSD on 
>servers, and MacOS X on workstations. I think for non-nerds, MacOS X is 
>much more approachable than Windows, Linux, or a naked BSD machine.  
>Apple has open-sourced most of MacOS X as Darwin, keeping only the GUI 
>and some apps and drivers proprietary 
>  
>
>I too find myself constantly patching up blasted WinPCs. Personally I 
>won't use the crap from Redmond, not even Word and Office. (And don't 
>even get me started on PowerPointless!) Invariably it's the same 
>question and the same answer: "How can I keep my computer from catching 
>virii?"  "Get a Mac."
>
> From   
>(If you want references, see the original article, it's full of  
>links.)
>
>Torturing your customers, A Business Model
>   
>The recording industry has invested a great deal of time and money in a 
>variety of schemes purporting to protect the rights of musicians. Of 
>course they haven’t even slowed down either casual or professional 
>pirates.
>
>Mostly, all they’ve done is annoy their customer base by making CDs 
>that don’t play right. I’m not writing today to blast BMG, Sony, and 
>the RIAA, they’re getting plenty of heat already. But I want to draw a 
>parallel between the way the recording industry and Microsoft treat 
>their customers.
>
>I just spent a few days rebuilding some WinXP machines for my neighbors 
>that had succumbed to hardware failures and/or Windows malware , In 
>each instance, the neighbor asked, ‘Why do these machines fail so 
>quickly? Why is it so tedious to fix them?’ The first question deserves 
>a few thousand words, but there have been millions written already and 
>flame wars are tedious too.
>
>The most direct answer to the second question is, “Microsoft 
>intentionally makes it damn near impossible for users to create 
>bootable backups, or even useful offline backups.” Their licensing and 
>copy protection schemes include components that prevent disk cloning, 
>and prevent disk images from booting if they were created by cloning, 
>that force relicensing when a computer has parts replaced. This of 
>course doesn’t slow down teenage script kiddies and professional OS 
>counterfeiters in the least, but it does make life miserable for every 
>legitimate windows user on the planet.
>
>In an ideal world, you would use simple commands or GUI tools to create 
>a mirror image of your installed and customized system on separate 
>partitions or disks. Other simple tools would allow you choose which 
>image your system booted from. When that image booted, it would work 
>right whether it was drive C:, D: or Z:, That image would boot 
>correctly, even if it was hooked up to a significantly different 
>computer.
>
>This is not an imaginary ideal, it is the world of Linux, of BSD UNIX, 
>of MacOS. Only Windows OSes fall on their swords, on purpose, when 
>users do perfectly reasonable things like pull a backup drive out of 
>the safe and try to boot it on a new computer.
>
>Why is this a reasonable thing? Well the payroll computer caught fire 
>yesterday, and we need to make payroll today. But Microsoft doesn’t see 
>it that way, they think their customers are all thieves and are trying 
>to steal WinXP. Yeah, like we really care!
>
>So, there’s the parallel. The recording industry exhibits complete 
>disdain for their customers, (And their suppliers, most musicians are 
>treated like dogs by recording companies.) Microsoft subscribes to the 
>same business model, drumming up business by trotting out the next big 
>thing, which is usually entirely derivative, gouging huge profits, 
>while treating the buyers like cattle at best, and thieves at worst.
>
>Bad enough we paid money for this stuff, how much of our precious time 
>must we spend trying to restore a machine taken to its knees by the 
>virus of the day.
>
>I’m sure many of you are going to trot out Ghost, or Partition Magic, 
>or the lates

Re: [Biofuel] US Intelligent Design Campaign and natural disaster hits oil prices.

Thank you Bob, this is too funny,

Also have a look at these disclaimer stickers.



Taryn
ornae.com


On Aug 30, 2005, at 8:32 AM, bob allen wrote:

>
> no, no Mike, the real truth about origins can be found in the 
> following:
>
> http://www.venganza.org/
>
> (you really need to follow the link for the graphs.)
>
>   TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD
>
> I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to
> decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be
> taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree 
> that
> it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can
> choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I 
> am
> concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of
> Intelligent Design.
>
> Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design.
> I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the
> universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who
> created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the
> overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary 
> processes
> is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
> ...


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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread Darryl McMahon

I think it was MMT.

"MMT is a manganese-based compound that is added to gasoline to enhance octane 
and 
reduce engine "knocking." Canadian legislators are concerned that the manganese 
in 
MMT emissions poses a significant public health risk. In addition, automobile 
manufacturers have long argued that MMT damages emissions diagnostics and 
control 
equipment in cars, thus increasing fuel emissions in general. Ethyl is the 
products only manufacturer.1"

http://www.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/mtbe.htm

Darryl McMahon

Date sent:  Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:35:51 -0400
From:   Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE
Send reply to:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org



> I remember hearing something about toxic fuel additives here in Canada 
> years ago.  The story was basically that an additive was known to be 
> harmful and present in exhaust emissions (or some harmful byproduct of 
> combustion of the additive) and it was still being used and the 
> manufacturer was aware of it but declined to comment.  The company was 
> Ethyl corporation.  I just checked their website( 
> http://www.ethyl.com/Operations/index.htm ) but they don't say anything 
> much other than listing gasoline performance additives as a product.  Is 
> it MTBE?  does anyone know?
> 
> Joe
> 
> subramanian D.V wrote:
> 
> > Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies 
> > are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names "extra 
> > mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors are 
> > unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites are 
> > equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty 
> > of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must know 
> > the hazards associated with it.
> >  
> > Regards
> >  
> > Subramanian
> >
> > */Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
> >
> > Hello Subramanian
> >
> > Not of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful -
> > factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:
> >
> > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.html
> > MTBE Fact Sheet
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > >Hello Members,
> > >
> > >MTBE - Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with
> > >gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly
> > >because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting
> > >human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US
> > >has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in
> > >certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.
> > >
> > >It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me
> > >what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate
> > >additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10
> > >tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before
> > >raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Subramanian
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > 
> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> > messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> > 
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >___
> >Biofuel mailing list
> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> >  
> >
> 

-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com/
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

On Aug 30, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:

> I totally agree.  My only complaint w/ Linux is that after I install a
> Linux/Samba server, I never see the client again!  I have servers
> running over 600 days.
> I make my living on (ick!) Windows machines.  They blow up all the 
> time.

ROFL Mike! I've been watching the linux/win debate shaping up here on 
the list and trying to stay out of it. After all how many religious 
wars can one woman get into at the same time?  I use Linux or BSD on 
servers, and MacOS X on workstations. I think for non-nerds, MacOS X is 
much more approachable than Windows, Linux, or a naked BSD machine.  
Apple has open-sourced most of MacOS X as Darwin, keeping only the GUI 
and some apps and drivers proprietary 

I too find myself constantly patching up blasted WinPCs. Personally I 
won't use the crap from Redmond, not even Word and Office. (And don't 
even get me started on PowerPointless!) Invariably it's the same 
question and the same answer: "How can I keep my computer from catching 
virii?"  "Get a Mac."

 From   
(If you want references, see the original article, it's full of  
links.)

Torturing your customers, A Business Model

The recording industry has invested a great deal of time and money in a 
variety of schemes purporting to protect the rights of musicians. Of 
course they haven’t even slowed down either casual or professional 
pirates.

Mostly, all they’ve done is annoy their customer base by making CDs 
that don’t play right. I’m not writing today to blast BMG, Sony, and 
the RIAA, they’re getting plenty of heat already. But I want to draw a 
parallel between the way the recording industry and Microsoft treat 
their customers.

I just spent a few days rebuilding some WinXP machines for my neighbors 
that had succumbed to hardware failures and/or Windows malware , In 
each instance, the neighbor asked, ‘Why do these machines fail so 
quickly? Why is it so tedious to fix them?’ The first question deserves 
a few thousand words, but there have been millions written already and 
flame wars are tedious too.

The most direct answer to the second question is, “Microsoft 
intentionally makes it damn near impossible for users to create 
bootable backups, or even useful offline backups.” Their licensing and 
copy protection schemes include components that prevent disk cloning, 
and prevent disk images from booting if they were created by cloning, 
that force relicensing when a computer has parts replaced. This of 
course doesn’t slow down teenage script kiddies and professional OS 
counterfeiters in the least, but it does make life miserable for every 
legitimate windows user on the planet.

In an ideal world, you would use simple commands or GUI tools to create 
a mirror image of your installed and customized system on separate 
partitions or disks. Other simple tools would allow you choose which 
image your system booted from. When that image booted, it would work 
right whether it was drive C:, D: or Z:, That image would boot 
correctly, even if it was hooked up to a significantly different 
computer.

This is not an imaginary ideal, it is the world of Linux, of BSD UNIX, 
of MacOS. Only Windows OSes fall on their swords, on purpose, when 
users do perfectly reasonable things like pull a backup drive out of 
the safe and try to boot it on a new computer.

Why is this a reasonable thing? Well the payroll computer caught fire 
yesterday, and we need to make payroll today. But Microsoft doesn’t see 
it that way, they think their customers are all thieves and are trying 
to steal WinXP. Yeah, like we really care!

So, there’s the parallel. The recording industry exhibits complete 
disdain for their customers, (And their suppliers, most musicians are 
treated like dogs by recording companies.) Microsoft subscribes to the 
same business model, drumming up business by trotting out the next big 
thing, which is usually entirely derivative, gouging huge profits, 
while treating the buyers like cattle at best, and thieves at worst.

Bad enough we paid money for this stuff, how much of our precious time 
must we spend trying to restore a machine taken to its knees by the 
virus of the day.

I’m sure many of you are going to trot out Ghost, or Partition Magic, 
or the latest Whiz-bang Norton tool, or BackupOmatic II, as your 
personal favorite fix for this problem. Just like you, I’ve come up 
with ways to defeat the intent of Microsoft, so I could get some work 
done.

But the fact still stands: They did this on purpose, and all it really 
does is torture their customers.

Taryn
ornae.com

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Sea

Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

No.  Then it wouldn't be a secret, would it?  Bwahaha

Try http://www.freesco.org/
or leaf.sourceforge.net
or http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/

I've done it with a 486/66 w/ 32 MB and 2 3c507 cards.  Plenty fast.

Also look up DSL linux.

Good luck!

Greg and April wrote:

>Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed.
>
>Greg H.
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
>
>
>  
>
>>You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>___
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>
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>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Oil questions

2005-08-30 Thread Bob Clark

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/marketquotes/HU.html

I don't know where John got his price but this is a link where you can check 
the daily price of canola oil (and a lot of other oils and grains as well). You 
can also keep up with the fossil prices if you want an idea of where the rest 
of the world is going from month to month?

Bob C.

-Original Message-
From: Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Aug 30, 2005 7:56 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Oil questions

Where did you find that price?

I've made Biodiesel from canola successfully.

John Wilson wrote:

> Hi
> Has anyone tried canola oil in their oil pan as a substitute for 
> fossil oil. If so what were the results.
> :http://www.rense.com/ufo/motoroil.htm
> How many liters in a tonne of canola oil.  spot price for Canola oil 
> is $268.00 per tonne. How much is that per liter. I am taking a rough 
> guess that a liter of canola oil weights .98 kgs roughly 26 cents per 
> liter.
>  
> Yours truly
> John Wilson

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PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Greg and April

Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed.

Greg H.


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft


> You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.
> 


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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

Sorry, that's false.  It should have read:  A water heater will not leak 
unless you are on vacation.

Mike Weaver wrote:

>5-15 years, then they start leaking.
>
>Bob Clark wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Marty Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
>>heater.  How long can you expect it to last?
>>
>>Marty, and all
>>
>>I am currently using six water heaters that have been "in service" for a 
>>little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil 
>>burner since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or 
>>burn out. I have several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of 
>>converting for one project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used 
>>to start with. One had a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained 
>>it, but I am lucky enough to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so 
>>repairing that wasn't too difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left 
>>the heating elements in to use as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' 
>>experiments and are fired with a modified propane burner, now running on 
>>methane gas. Those two would be the ones that I suspect will burn out first 
>>(the bottom area) so I keep a closer eye on them, but so far no sign of 
>>trouble.
>>
>>In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including 
>>water heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three 
>>months) so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date 
>>and pickup all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for 
>>anything so can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of 
>>the heater tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years 
>>before I got ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine 
>>years (and still counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new 
>>water heater tank should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a 
>>quality one to start with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 
>>'project' using a water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a 
>>local salvage yard or dump. The days of 'freebies" from those kind of places 
>>are over (at least everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to 
>>get five dollars tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for 
>>ten bucks??? That would be a much smaller investment then a new water heater. 
>>However, if you have some experience with your project already and want to 
>>make sure you start with a good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I 
>>guess only you can make that choice, but based on my own personal uses, a 
>>used tank will give you a good deal of service and provides a very 
>>inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, I have built several other cookers and 
>>stills since those first ones and in some projects I have use one inch steel 
>>plate (for fireboxes and support walls of a digester) and a couple of heavy 
>>gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old water heaters are still used 
>>regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two waste-oil burners I built 
>>(one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only used "regularly" about 
>>four months each year and then sporadically through the rest of the year. But 
>>on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and extreme heat conditions.
>>
>>Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a 
>>lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and 
>>plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of 
>>people that have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' 
>>only started in 1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.
>>
>>Bob C.
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>PeoplePC Online
>>A better way to Internet
>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu 2.64banger?

Yikes.

After that I plan to run in the opposite direction.  I have and 88 gas 
Trooper I use to haul WVO and crap.  It's EFI.

Thanks for the info!

Jan Warnqvist wrote:

>Hello Mike.
>You could run your gasoline vehicle on 15% methanol, BUT the methanol is
>quite aggressive and may cause corrosion in your fuel system quite rapidly.
>If your car is equipped with a carburettor, you should adjust the CO exhaust
>value, when running on methanol/gasoline, according to the stated min value
>by the manufacturer in order to avoid that the fuel/air mixture becomes too
>lean. If that is not possible, do not use the methanol for fuel.
>You will notice a clear increase in fuel consumption.
>Methanol has a clear tendency of forming acid compounds during engine
>warm-up. These compounds will attack the lubricating oil layers in your
>engine. You may expect twice the wear compared to running on pure gasoline
>(or even ethanol for that matter). Please let me know how you intend to
>proceed.
>Good luck !
>Jan
>Jan Warnqvist
>AGERATEC AB
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>+ 46 554 201 89
>+46 70 499 38 45
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:02 PM
>Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu
>2.64banger?
>
>
>  
>
>>___
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>>
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>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>>
>>
>messages):
>  
>
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

I remember hearing something about toxic fuel additives here in Canada
years ago.  The story was basically that an additive was known to be
harmful and present in exhaust emissions (or some harmful byproduct of
combustion of the additive) and it was still being used and the
manufacturer was aware of it but declined to comment.  The company was
Ethyl corporation.  I just checked their website(
http://www.ethyl.com/Operations/index.htm ) but they don't say anything
much other than listing gasoline performance additives as a product. 
Is it MTBE?  does anyone know?

Joe

subramanian D.V wrote:

  Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing
companies are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names
"extra mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors
are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites
are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge
qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must
know the hazards associated with it. 

  Regards

  Subramanian

  Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hello
Subramanian

Not of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful - 
factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.html
MTBE Fact Sheet

Best wishes

Keith

>Hello Members,
>
>MTBE – Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with

>gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly 
>because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting

>human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US

>has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in 
>certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.
>
>It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me 
>what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate 
>additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 
>tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before 
>raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.
>
>Regards,
>
>Subramanian

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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu 2.64banger?

2005-08-30 Thread Jan Warnqvist

Hello Mike.
You could run your gasoline vehicle on 15% methanol, BUT the methanol is
quite aggressive and may cause corrosion in your fuel system quite rapidly.
If your car is equipped with a carburettor, you should adjust the CO exhaust
value, when running on methanol/gasoline, according to the stated min value
by the manufacturer in order to avoid that the fuel/air mixture becomes too
lean. If that is not possible, do not use the methanol for fuel.
You will notice a clear increase in fuel consumption.
Methanol has a clear tendency of forming acid compounds during engine
warm-up. These compounds will attack the lubricating oil layers in your
engine. You may expect twice the wear compared to running on pure gasoline
(or even ethanol for that matter). Please let me know how you intend to
proceed.
Good luck !
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:02 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu
2.64banger?


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Re: [Biofuel] Cohabitation

I am the one and true Mike.  This other fellow is clearly an imposter.  
Do not follow false Mikes.  I personally will lead you into temptation.  
I am running for president.  My slogan is:

Mike Weaver for president: A troubled man for troubled times.

Michael Redler wrote:

> What!? I have kids!!?
>  
> I think Doug's got the wrong Mike on that quote (as Mike Weaver 
> already noticed).
>  
> :-)
>  
> Mike
>
> */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> Nah, the kids have their own room.
>
> Douglas Smith wrote:
>
> >Michael Redler wrote:
> >
> >"Uh oh. I'm cohabitating illegally. Wait'll I tell my GF. "
> >
> >You know, Michael, I don't have anything against you and your
> >girlfriend doing whatever you like in private - or any other
> straight
> >couple - but must you flaunt it in front of the rest of us? The
> >children might see and then we'd have to explain!
> >
> >(NOTE: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)
> >
> >Doug
> >
> >
> >"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest
> exercises in
> >moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
> >justification for selfishness."
> >- economist John Kenneth Galbraith
> >
> >
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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

5-15 years, then they start leaking.

Bob Clark wrote:

> Marty Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
>heater.  How long can you expect it to last?
>
>Marty, and all
>
>I am currently using six water heaters that have been "in service" for a 
>little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil burner 
>since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or burn out. I 
>have several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of converting for 
>one project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used to start with. 
>One had a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained it, but I am lucky 
>enough to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't 
>too difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in 
>to use as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired 
>with a modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would be 
>the ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I keep a 
>closer eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.
>
>In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including water 
>heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three months) 
>so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date and pickup 
>all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for anything so 
>can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of the heater 
>tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years before I got 
>ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine years (and 
>still counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater 
>tank should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to 
>start with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a 
>water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage yard or 
>dump. The days of 'freebies" from those kind of places are over (at least 
>everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get five dollars 
>tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for ten bucks??? That 
>would be a much smaller investment then a new water heater. However, if you 
>have some experience with your project already and want to make sure you start 
>with a good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I guess only you can make 
>that choice, but based on my own personal uses, a used tank will give you a 
>good deal of service and provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, 
>I have built several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in 
>some projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support walls 
>of a digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old 
>water heaters are still used regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two 
>waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only 
>used "regularly" about four months each year and then sporadically through the 
>rest of the year. But on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and 
>extreme heat conditions.
>
>Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a 
>lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and 
>plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of 
>people that have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' 
>only started in 1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.
>
>Bob C.
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Cohabitation

What!? I have kids!!?
 
I think Doug's got the wrong Mike on that quote (as Mike Weaver already noticed).
 
:-)
 
Mike
Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nah, the kids have their own room.Douglas Smith wrote:>Michael Redler wrote:>>"Uh oh. I'm cohabitating illegally. Wait'll I tell my GF. ">>You know, Michael, I don't have anything against you and your >girlfriend doing whatever you like in private - or any other straight >couple - but must you flaunt it in front of the rest of us? The >children might see and then we'd have to explain!>>(NOTE: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)>>Doug>>>"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in >moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral >justification for selfishness.">- economist John Kenneth Galbraith>>>___>Biofuel mailing
 list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> >___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___
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Re: [Biofuel] US Intelligent Design Campaign and natural disaster hits oil prices.

Bob, Bob, Bob.

You poor deluded fool.  I think everyone knows the world exists on a 
Great White Handkerchief, and will end when The Great Sneeze comes.
If you don't change your thinking, you, and all unbelievers, will be 
cast into everlasting snot. 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a false idol.  You have tricked by the forces 
of darkness into believing that there is free marinara for everyone, we will 
never run out of parmasean, and that the noodle goes on forever.  Not true.

I will pray for you.  More importantly, YOU can help spread the work by 
sending your contribution to Committee to Advance Spiritual 
Handkerchiefism, or to make is easier, just make it out to CASH and 
forward to me.

Bless you.

-Mike



bob allen wrote:

>no, no Mike, the real truth about origins can be found in the following:
>
>http://www.venganza.org/
>
>(you really need to follow the link for the graphs.)
>
>  TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD
>
>I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to 
>decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be 
>taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that 
>it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can 
>choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am 
>concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of 
>Intelligent Design.
>
>Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. 
>I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the 
>universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who 
>created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the 
>overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes 
>is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
>
>It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request 
>that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the 
>other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not 
>agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m 
>sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory 
>is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is 
>claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also 
>based on science, not on faith.
>
>Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a 
>little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti 
>Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see 
>it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes 
>explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear 
>that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very 
>secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by 
>observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built 
>the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For 
>example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. 
>He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron 
>emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 
>10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 
>years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he 
>makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the 
>results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe 
>in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He 
>is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
>
>I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are 
>taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they 
>realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying 
>Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs 
>without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate 
>regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and 
>unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear 
>this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is 
>that He becomes angry if we don’t.
>
>You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, 
>hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the 
>shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have 
>included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average 
>global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a 
>statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and 
>global temperature.
>
>In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and 
>beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this 
>theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers 
>in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope 
>de

Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.





What about a tax based on holdings, land, assets, material wealth
basically rather than income which allows these loopholes.  Those with
more pay more.

Joe

David M. Brockes wrote:

  This is why we need a "Flat Tax" system in this country for both Individual
and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
we have todayand most of us would probably pay less, but certainly
everyone would pay a "fair" share.and think of all the savings there
would be from all the "extra" costs currently related to our Tax system!!
Just IMHO!!
Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.


It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
(preferably not at all).

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada



On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Jerry Eyers wrote:

  
  

  Funny tidbit.  BP says they loose money on their gas stations, $100mil
  

last


  year.  You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you delivery it,
  

  
  and
  
  
you


  sell it.  How do you loose money when you control all aspects of it.
  

  
  Just
  
  
by


  vertues of econmies of scale you have to make money.
  

  
  
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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

Hi Keith, et alii.

On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

> Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam
>
> Did you read this?
>
> http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
> 5-August/003230.html
> Or:
> http://snipurl.com/hb3u
> [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
> "Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
> Speak for Jesus"
>

Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now  
misplaced) led me to some striking information regarding the US's  
post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.  
Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and  
liberation theology, in Latin American politics.

Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites  
accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then  
to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing  
together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war  
Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist  
in name only by the 1940s.

So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre  
predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great  
resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and  
Pannirselvam. (and many others)

In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all  
together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with  
much funding from ARPA,  
 which was created to respond  
to "The Communist Threat". Now of course the internet is one of our  
best tools for responding to the "Capitalist Threat".

Regarding the "Clash of Civilisations", it's astonishing that  
Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel,  
have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of  
a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone  
perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' "Skinny  
Legs and All".   
 I've re-read  
this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is  
illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff  
before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g.  
"Still Life with Woodpecker" or "Jitterbug Perfume", since his work is  
rich and complex.

Again, thanks to all here who help us see past the veils, to a larger  
world.
Taryn
ornae.com

> I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I posted
> that instead.
>
> By the way, here's Doug's post, "Religion, Politics Biofuels, and  
> Thanks!":
>
> http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
> 5-August/003279.html
> Or:
> http://snipurl.com/hb3w
>
> I don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
> mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the other
> issues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsense
> about the US and Islam, the odious "Clash of Civilisations" type of
> thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of "Christian
> Zionists" in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects on
> politics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.
>
> On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
> brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer to
> each other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.
> Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in each
> other's heads?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>> Hello Pannirselvam,
>>
>> Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've

>> ...

>> American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power in
>> Latin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDS
>> misinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we can
>> be sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.
>>
>> I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media power
>> being used to suppress democratic processes all over the world, but I
>> suspect that the church often falls on the wrong side of this battle,
>> they have usually supported the economic elite in class struggles,  
>> even
>> as their missionaries were striving to help the poor and dispossessed.
>>
>> I know you're 'on the ground' in Brazil, and you're seeing many
>> courageous, dedicated christians doing good works, against great odds.
>> I guess I'm trying to say that you're seeing those with 'true religion
>> with ethics and also true democratic politics' actually doing what
>> needs doing. Those who send them often have other goals.
>>
>> Taryn
>> ornae.com
>>
>>
>> On Aug 29, 2005, at 5:35 PM, Pannirselvam P.V wrote:
>>
>>>  Dear  Doug Swanson
>>>
>>>   I appreciate  your   well   thoughtful  letter regarding  
>>> our
>>> list.But  I am

Re: [Biofuel] US Intelligent Design Campaign and natural disaster hits oil prices.

no, no Mike, the real truth about origins can be found in the following:

http://www.venganza.org/

(you really need to follow the link for the graphs.)

  TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD

I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to 
decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be 
taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that 
it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can 
choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am 
concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of 
Intelligent Design.

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. 
I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the 
universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who 
created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the 
overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes 
is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request 
that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the 
other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not 
agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m 
sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory 
is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is 
claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also 
based on science, not on faith.

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a 
little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti 
Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see 
it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes 
explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear 
that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very 
secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by 
observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built 
the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For 
example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. 
He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron 
emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 
10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 
years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he 
makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the 
results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe 
in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He 
is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are 
taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they 
realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying 
Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs 
without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate 
regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and 
unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear 
this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is 
that He becomes angry if we don’t.

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, 
hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the 
shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have 
included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average 
global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a 
statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and 
global temperature.

In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and 
beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this 
theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers 
in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope 
dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all 
look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time 
in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; 
One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying 
Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on 
overwhelming observable evidence.

Mike Weaver wrote:
> Well, despite all the hoopla put forth by our religiously-minded 
> national leaders here in the US, I am have been shocked to find NO 
> support for my campaign to replace
> evolution with the oldest documented evidence of Intelligent Design.  
> Hinduism is easily 7000 years old, and clearly the most likely candidate 
> in terms of a continuing body of knowledge, and successful propagation.  
> NONE

Re: [Biofuel] Government Regs

Right now, Arkansas does not recognize biodiesel as a motor fuel and 
therefore it is not taxed, at least that is what I hear from the state 
energy office who contacted the appropriate folks in the department of 
finance and administration.

The best I can tell from discussions on this list was that small 
producers of biodiesel are exempt from federal taxes.

Peter Childers wrote:
> I am investigating the State of North Carolina tax regulations on 
> BioFuel production. I find out the tax rate is 27.1 cents per gallon and 
> I have to post a surety bond for $2000 for a license. That is required 
> for any type of Biodiesel production up to 500,000 gallons per year. I 
> am still investigating the Federal tax requirements. North Carolina has 
> even defined blending, mixing of regular diesel with WVO as a person who 
> needs to post this bond. So if you plan to drive up to the French fry 
> shack and dump some WVO in your tank you'll need a license with a $2000 
> bond and have to pay a tax. How is it in other States? Are all you 
> Biodieselers operating in the underground market?
> Peter 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

>Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing 
>companies are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names 
>"extra mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the 
>distributors are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing 
>company websites are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing 
>company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is 
>suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it.

It sounds right up their alley. Strength to your arm.

Best wishes

Keith



>Regards
>
>Subramanian
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hello Subramanian
>
>Not of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful -
>factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:
>
>http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.html
>MTBE Fact Sheet
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
> >Hello Members,
> >
> >MTBE  Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with
> >gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly
> >because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting
> >human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US
> >has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in
> >certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.
> >
> >It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me
> >what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate
> >additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10
> >tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before
> >raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Subramanian


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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

I totally agree.  My only complaint w/ Linux is that after I install a 
Linux/Samba server, I never see the client again!  I have servers 
running over 600 days.
I make my living on (ick!) Windows machines.  They blow up all the time.

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hi Mike
>
>
>
>  
>
>>I personally think Open Source dovetails
>>nicely with the "let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to rule
>>our lives" thread that underpins many homebrewers.
>>
>>
>
>With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the 
>homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a 
>previous post to the list by Thor Skov:
>
>"I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm 
>just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a 
>local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using 
>accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation 
>combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up 
>the good work everyone, before the planet fries."
>
>We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the 
>Biofuel list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software. 
>It works very well!
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> 
>
>
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>
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>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread Bob Clark



 Marty Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
heater.  How long can you expect it to last?

Marty, and all

I am currently using six water heaters that have been "in service" for a little 
over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil burner since 
1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or burn out. I have 
several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of converting for one 
project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used to start with. One had 
a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained it, but I am lucky enough 
to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't too 
difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in to use 
as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired with a 
modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would be the 
ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I keep a closer 
eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.

In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including water 
heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three months) 
so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date and pickup 
all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for anything so 
can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of the heater 
tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years before I got 
ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine years (and still 
counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater tank 
should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to start 
with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a water 
heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage yard or dump. 
The days of 'freebies" from those kind of places are over (at least everyplace 
I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get five dollars tops for the 
old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for ten bucks??? That would be a much 
smaller investment then a new water heater. However, if you have some 
experience with your project already and want to make sure you start with a 
good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I guess only you can make that 
choice, but based on my own personal uses, a used tank will give you a good 
deal of service and provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, I 
have built several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in some 
projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support walls of a 
digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old water 
heaters are still used regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two 
waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only 
used "regularly" about four months each year and then sporadically through the 
rest of the year. But on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and 
extreme heat conditions.

Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a lot 
more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and plans 
from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of people that 
have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' only started in 
1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.

Bob C.

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A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

Get the Jetta.

Mel Riser wrote:

> I just came home tonight and found 20 5 gallon jugs of WVO in my driveway.
>  
> guess I'm gonna be heating some oil this weekend and getting some of 
> the filterable stuff out before i put it in the WVO truck.
>  
> My wife really got the point when I told her that EACH 5 gallon jug 
> would run my truck for 100 miles and my car for 150 miles.
>  
> I think she is finally seeing why I keep saying sell the minvan and 
> buy a TDI Jetta or a Jeep Liberty with the diesel option.
>  
> mel
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* Mel Riser
> *Sent:* Mon 8/29/2005 1:35 PM
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org; Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> *Cc:*
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
>
> I'm gonna go down and fill up ALL my diesel vehicles with B100
> that day.
>
>  
>
> mel
>
>
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

I've been studying Hinduism.  Fascinating.  Very humbling when you 
realize what a blip US history is in the greater scheme of the world's 
timeline.

Pannirselvam P.V wrote:

>  Thank you Keith  bringing here  topics  unknown to many of our list
>
>India and Pakistan have been always brothers as India  has been 
> always adopted to all the religion  first Arians , then budha , then 
> Muslim , then  Christanism  and lately all gloabised Evangelism  too 
> as  religion always considerd as the best way to live with  true 
> spirutalism ,out materialism , without consumadorism and free  way of 
> thinking
>
>India  was misunderstood when   Bangladesh  become  free , but sure 
> the people of the India nad Pakistan have the same history  and wish  
> keep awy from any Nuclear weapons away.
>  
>I am sure  India will never go far  Nuclear war  as this will  be 
> against the  very million and million  peoples  way of thinking.
>
> Indian Parliment will never aprove to send money to kill any human 
> in other country , which it never has  done expect its defens  being 
> in the world as  this  is against  all the religion  of the country. 
> Thanks  the mass education after independence  which  has made India 
> as truely independet very big  democracy of the world.
>
> Pannirselvam P.V
>
>
>
> On 8/30/05, *Keith Addison* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam
>
> Did you read this?
>
> http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
> 5-August/003230.html
> Or:
> http://snipurl.com/hb3u
> [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
> "Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
> Speak for Jesus"
>
> I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I posted
> that instead.
>
> By the way, here's Doug's post, "Religion, Politics Biofuels, and
> Thanks!":
>
> http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
> 5-August/003279.html
> Or:
> http://snipurl.com/hb3w
>
> I don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
> mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the other
> issues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsense
> about the US and Islam, the odious "Clash of Civilisations" type of
> thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of "Christian
> Zionists" in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects on
> politics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.
>
> On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
> brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer to
> each other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.
> Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in each
> other's heads?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> >Hello Pannirselvam,
> >
> >Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've
> >assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of the
> >Catholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been
> years
> >since I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practice
> >hatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
> >Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubled
> >by several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).
> >
> >Here in the west, Darwin's theories, "nature red in tooth and claw",
> >were used as justification for "Social Darwinism", which claimed that
> >the poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving of
> >opportunity, education, or fair treatment.  I see reincarnation, and
> >the caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the
> lower
> >castes are seen as "failed souls", not enlightened enough to
> deserve a
> >place in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought are
> >rejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but
> that the
> >bigotry and sexism continue.
> >
> >So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a tool
> >of oppression, creating economic and social disparity without
> regard to
> >the 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.
> >
> >Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much good
> >work, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the
> use
> >of condoms and other birth control methods.
> > This has
> accelerated
> >the spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many
> thousands of
> >unnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schism
> >between the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with the
> >local priests and bishops deno

Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.

Michael Redler wrote:

> I've become a big fan of Linux too. I plan on having a couple of 
> distributions of Linux on machines in my house. The biggest reason 
> (besides virus protection) is that some of the distributions 
> available, are compatible with computers going back to windows 3.1. In 
> addition, they all come with C compilers. So, I can resurrect old 
> computers to do other useful things like machine control, etc.
>  
> Appropriate technologies make use of materials, technologies and 
> skills that are readily available in your community. Since a lot of 
> older computers have a scrap value of near zero, are abundantly 
> available and can be applied to a useful purpose, I think it can 
> arguably be called "appropriate" in that context for the region in 
> which I live. In fact, I think it serves a dual purpose as a measure 
> of conservation - keeping them out of land fills for as long as possible.
>  
> Mike  
>
> */Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> Hi Mike
>
>
>
> >I personally think Open Source dovetails
> >nicely with the "let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to
> rule
> >our lives" thread that underpins many homebrewers.
>
> With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the
> homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a
> previous post to the list by Thor Skov:
>
> "I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm
> just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a
> local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using
> accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation
> combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up
> the good work everyone, before the planet fries."
>
> We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the
> Biofuel list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software.
> It works very well!
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Cohabitation

Nah, the kids have their own room.

Douglas Smith wrote:

>Michael Redler wrote:
>
>"Uh oh.  I'm cohabitating illegally.  Wait'll I tell my GF. "
>
>You know, Michael, I don't have anything against you and your 
>girlfriend doing whatever you like in private - or any other straight 
>couple - but must you flaunt it in front of the rest of us? The 
>children might see and then we'd have to explain!
>
>(NOTE: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)
>
>Doug
>
>
>"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in 
>moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral 
>justification for selfishness."
>- economist John Kenneth Galbraith
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread khamhiane inthava

Dear Keith,
 
I have followed your forum for a while.
 
You said that "It's used here in Japan too", is that mean you are currently in Japan? The reason I asked is that if yes I would like to visite you to see physically your projects.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Best regards,
KhamhianeKeith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dag Pieter>Hello all,>I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality >oil, well, that is what I thought.>In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is >dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake >their chips.>From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to >make BD from it.>Can anyone please help me ?>Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 >is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the >future.>E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)nIt's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
 proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your biodiesel.Best wishesKeith>Met dank en vriendelijke groet,>Pieter Koole>Netherlands___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

Or we boycott companies that set up offshore shells to avoid US taxes.  
Black and Decker, Accenture and so on, but want to use US courts, which 
taxes support.


David M. Brockes wrote:

>This is why we need a "Flat Tax" system in this country for both Individual
>and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
>we have todayand most of us would probably pay less, but certainly
>everyone would pay a "fair" share.and think of all the savings there
>would be from all the "extra" costs currently related to our Tax system!!
>Just IMHO!!
>Dave
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
>
>
>It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
>the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
>(preferably not at all).
>
>Doug Woodard
>St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Jerry Eyers wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>Funny tidbit.  BP says they loose money on their gas stations, $100mil
>>>  
>>>
>>last
>>
>>
>>>year.  You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you delivery it,
>>>  
>>>
>and
>  
>
>>you
>>
>>
>>>sell it.  How do you loose money when you control all aspects of it.
>>>  
>>>
>Just
>  
>
>>by
>>
>>
>>>vertues of econmies of scale you have to make money.
>>>  
>>>
>
>___
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>
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>
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>  
>


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[Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu 2.6 4banger?



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Re: [Biofuel] Oil questions

Where did you find that price?

I've made Biodiesel from canola successfully.

John Wilson wrote:

> Hi
> Has anyone tried canola oil in their oil pan as a substitute for 
> fossil oil. If so what were the results.
> :http://www.rense.com/ufo/motoroil.htm
> How many liters in a tonne of canola oil.  spot price for Canola oil 
> is $268.00 per tonne. How much is that per liter. I am taking a rough 
> guess that a liter of canola oil weights .98 kgs roughly 26 cents per 
> liter.
>  
> Yours truly
> John Wilson
> ***
> Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
> Goldens
> Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
> Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
>  Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
>  
> In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 
> PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
> ^^^
> Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)
>
>
>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Background statistics for energy and more....

Yup - spent a little time there myself, as well as in West Africa.  I 
always said if Nigerians put as much energy into legitimate business 
ventures as they did in trying rip each other off they's be running the 
world.  Oh well.  Obasanjo is actually cleaning things up a bit.

-Mike

Hakan Falk wrote:

>Mike,
>
>Yes, Nigeria were #100 on least corrupted countries and now they are #144.
>
>US is still keeping its 17-19 position however, good, despite the 
>Bush administration.
>
>Spain is also the same, but Sweden who had a shared 5 position with 
>Singapore, have now fallen to 6.
>
>LOL
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 05:30 30/08/2005, you wrote:
>  
>
>>Darn,
>>
>>Nigeria has fallen out of #1.
>>
>>Hakan Falk wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>mphee,
>>>
>>>Something that I follow and found very important for evaluations and
>>>discussions are several public statistical reports, two of the most
>>>important to read is,
>>>
>>>UNDP's report on human development,
>>>http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/pdf/hdr04_complete.pdf
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>BP's energy report,
>>>http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_engli 
>>>  
>>>
>>sh/publications/energy_reviews_2005/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/pdf/statistical_review_of_world_energy_full_report_2005.pdf
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>there are long links so many must copy and paste to get there. An
>>>other interesting report is the Global corruption report and I like
>>>to look at the following,
>>>
>>>http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/gcr2005/download/english/corr 
>>>  
>>>
>>uption_research_%20I.pdf
>>
>>
>>>one interesting special is,
>>>
>>>Corruption in post-conflict reconstruction,
>>>http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/gcr2005/download/english/corr 
>>>  
>>>
>>uption_post_conflict_%20rec.pdf
>>
>>
>>>All are very valuable background for discussions. They can take a
>>>long time to download if you have a slow connection, but it is 
>>>  
>>>
>>well worth it.
>>
>>
>>>Hakan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 17:22 29/08/2005, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
The econmic meltdown doesn't scare me as much as the next world war.

The economy has had meltdowns before and it will again.  I 


>>believe the US is
>>
>>
resourcful enough to come back.  Though our great dependacy on foreign oil
could make that a lot harder.

As oil is depleted more and more there will be maneuvering by countries to
retain/adquire/secure the last reserves.  Is it completely 


>>outside the realm
>>
>>
of possiblities that's why we're in iraq.  China's army out numbers us at
least 2 to 1, but not as advanced and trained.  India's army is 


>>becoming more
>>
>>
advanced all the time.  Both of which are a lot closer than us to 


>>the middle
>>
>>
east.  Give them 10-20 years.

US has dug a pretty deep hole.  Carter had put in new CAFE 


>>(milage requiremnts
>>
>>
for cars/trucks) requiremnts that Reagan through out.  If they 


>>had stayed it
>>
>>
could have greatly reduced our dependancy on oil.  Transportation 


>>uses 74% of
>>
>>
the 20+ mbbls we use a day of oil.



On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:16:11 -0700 (PDT), Kirk McLoren wrote




>http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,16416680,
>00.html
>-
>Print this page
>Dumping of US dollar could trigger 'economic September 11'
>There is a potentially fatal flaw at the heart of the global
>economy: the strong possibility of financial meltdown following a
>collapse of confidence in the greenback, Clyde Prestowitz tells
>Bruce Stannard 29aug05
>
>THE nightmare scenario that haunts global strategist Clyde
>Prestowitz is an economic September 11 -- a worldwide financial
>panic triggered by a sudden massive sell-off of US dollars that
>would lead inexorably to the collapse of economies around the world.
>
>
>
>  
>
>>>
>>>___
>>>Biofuel mailing list
>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>>
>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>>
>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
>>>  
>>>
>>messages):
>>
>>
>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>___
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>>
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>>
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>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainabl

Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to

2005-08-30 Thread Stephan van Wyk

There is no way to peace; peace is the way. (Ghandi) 
By this he is saying that we must simply BE in peace. And that means being
non judgmental and loving - toward all creatures... At the end of the day it
comes down to love and respect and forgiveness.
 
Love and respect your neighbor
Love and respect the Earth and its creatures
Love and respect yourself
 
Peace
Stephan
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Mel Riser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Mel Riser
Sent: 30 August 2005 11:45
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] What has the world come to


what if their religous leaders said the same thing about us?
 
isn't that what the wahbi's and taliban and AlCIAduh all are preaching?
 
what right do we have to interfere with another countries elected leaders.
 
It's THEIR OIL they can CHOOSE to not sell us any if they want to.
 
These people think they can just keep on stealing other peoples resources so
we can feed this consumber monster we have created.
 
they TRULY believe it's God's will to do this.
 
like the Teliban did when they blew up the Bhudist statues.
 
religous jihadist 
 
judeo
christian
islamic
 
all the same
 
mel

-Original Message- 
From: Clif Caldwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 11:11 AM 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to



John Hayes wrote:

Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the
source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but
also a man's character. If you have the original source for this
information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this
up. Just a thought...

Clif
   

>>>I JUST heard it on NPR!
>>>
>>>Here's the quote:
>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews
 &article=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml
>>> 
>>>
>>I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also
>>heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things "in the
>>moment" we later regret. Two things are true in this world..
>>There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's
>>salvation. It is regretable that men who are called "men of God"
>>still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of
>>sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to
>>find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson
>>consider this episode part of his refining. Clif
>>   
>>
>
>Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question
>the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now,
>when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you
>dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's
>imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry.
>
>If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he said?
>I thought "christians" of his ilk were all about taking personal
>responsibility? I find any "contrite apology" rather thin when only
>*yesterday* he was still claiming he was "misinterpreted". Why did he go
>on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when
>Monday's video clearly shows he did?
>
>"Refining" my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it.
>
>jh
>
>
> 
>
>>August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted'
>> By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
>>
>>The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today
>>apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination
>>of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.
>>
>>"Is it right to call for assassination?" he said in the statement.
>>"No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that
>>we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill
>>him."
>>
>>But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show
>>today, instead insisting that he had been been "misinterpreted" by
>>The Associated Press and that he had never used the word
>>"assassination."
>>
>>"I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out'
>>could be a number of things, including kidnapping," Mr. Robertson
>>told his audience on the show "The 700 Club" today.
>>
>>The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet,
>>shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: "If he thinks
>>we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go
>>ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I
>>don't think any oil shipments will stop." Mr. Robertson went on at
>>length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that "covert operatives" could
>>"do the job and then get it over with."
>>
>>Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson
>>today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying,
>>"Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We b

Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Pieter Koole

Thanks Keith,
If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ?
I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I mix
any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With "hard" I mean
as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly.
Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will
have to deal with this more and more in the future.
Thanks again.

> Dag Pieter
>
> >Hello all,
> >I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
> >oil, well, that is what I thought.
> >In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is
> >dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake
> >their chips.
> >From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to
> >make BD from it.
> >Can anyone please help me ?
> >Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900
> >is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the
> >future.
> >E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n
>
> It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first
> came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming
> agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
> proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe
> they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your
> biodiesel.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
> >Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
> >Pieter Koole
> >Netherlands
>
>
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>
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>
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messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

2005-08-30 Thread Stephan van Wyk

Look at www.ubuntulinux.org
Fantastic debian flavoured os with easy setup and functional kde. (needs no
gas!)

Stephan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Arden B.
Norder
Sent: 29 August 2005 02:26
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members


Halellujah . . . I'm not alone!!!

I live for and work with linux everyday all day long - It just works . . .
all
the time!!!

Greetings from Holland!!!

Arden

On Aug 29, 2005 10:23 AM, Rumen Slavov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   Dear Friends,
>   As I wrote, there are not viruses for Linux. In the
> earliest `80 there were a couple of exploits ( not
> viruses!), but they dyed soon, when the kernel has
> changed. The creation of a virus is a complicate
> process, one has to know the exact target, what is
> almost impossible with the variety of kernels in the
> comps of the net. Linux is quickly evolving OS and
> this is understandable - say 2000 programmers in
> Richmond can not lead competition with 2 000 000
> worldwide. I have been running different Linux
> distributions for some 6 years and I have always in my
> pocket a small CD 215 MB live CD to revive dead MS
> comps.
>   Don`t get confused - use Linux!
>Best
>   R.Slavov
>
> __
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft


I've become a big fan of Linux too. I plan on having a couple of distributions of Linux on machines in my house. The biggest reason (besides virus protection) is that some of the distributions available, are compatible with computers going back to windows 3.1. In addition, they all come with C compilers. So, I can resurrect old computers to do other useful things like machine control, etc.
 
Appropriate technologies make use of materials, technologies and skills that are readily available in your community. Since a lot of older computers have a scrap value of near zero, are abundantly available and can be applied to a useful purpose, I think it can arguably be called "appropriate" in that context for the region in which I live. In fact, I think it serves a dual purpose as a measure of conservation - keeping them out of land fills for as long as possible.
 
Mike  
Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mike>I personally think Open Source dovetails>nicely with the "let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to rule>our lives" thread that underpins many homebrewers.With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a previous post to the list by Thor Skov:"I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, before the planet fries."We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the Biofuel
 list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software. It works very well!Best wishesKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___
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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Pannirselvam P.V

 Thank you Keith  bringing here  topics  unknown to many of our list

   India and Pakistan have been always brothers as
India  has been always adopted to all the religion  first
Arians , then budha , then Muslim , then  Christanism  and
lately all gloabised Evangelism  too as  religion always
considerd as the best way to live with  true spirutalism ,out
materialism , without consumadorism and free  way of thinking

   India  was misunderstood when  
Bangladesh  become  free , but sure the people of the India
nad Pakistan have the same history  and wish  keep awy from
any Nuclear weapons away.
  
   I am sure  India will never go far  Nuclear
war  as this will  be against the  very million and
million  peoples  way of thinking.

    Indian Parliment will never aprove to send money to
kill any human in other country , which it never has  done expect
its defens  being in the world as  this  is
against  all the religion  of the country. Thanks  the
mass education after independence  which  has made India as
truely independet very big  democracy of the world.

Pannirselvam P.V

On 8/30/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Taryn, PannirselvamDid you read this?http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/2005-August/003230.html
Or:http://snipurl.com/hb3u[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers"Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim toSpeak for Jesus"
I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I postedthat instead.By the way, here's Doug's post, "Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Thanks!":
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/2005-August/003279.htmlOr:http://snipurl.com/hb3wI don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the otherissues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsenseabout the US and Islam, the odious "Clash of Civilisations" type of
thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of "ChristianZionists" in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects onpolitics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer toeach other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in eachother's heads?
Best wishesKeith>Hello Pannirselvam,>>Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've>assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of the
>Catholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been years>since I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practice>hatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
>Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubled>by several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).>>Here in the west, Darwin's theories, "nature red in tooth and claw",
>were used as justification for "Social Darwinism", which claimed that>the poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving of>opportunity, education, or fair treatment.  I see reincarnation, and
>the caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the lower>castes are seen as "failed souls", not enlightened enough to deserve a>place in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought are
>rejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but that the>bigotry and sexism continue.>>So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a tool>of oppression, creating economic and social disparity without regard to
>the 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.>>Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much good>work, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the use
>of condoms and other birth control methods.> This has accelerated>the spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many thousands of
>unnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schism>between the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with the>local priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom stance.
> This is certainly a>welcome change, but the Vatican continues it's policies against AIDS
>prevention education. It's not the first time the Vatican has taken a>stance obviously against Christ's teaching, often only to serve their>economic or political goals.>>A bright spot in all this has been the emergence of Catholic Liberation
>Theology, which at least provides a counter force to the constant>capitalist propaganda imposed on all the Americas.>>American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power in>Latin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDS
>misinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we can>be sure that their missio

Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to

what if their religous leaders said the same thing about us?
 
isn't that what the wahbi's and taliban and AlCIAduh all are preaching?
 
what right do we have to interfere with another countries elected leaders.
 
It's THEIR OIL they can CHOOSE to not sell us any if they want to.
 
These people think they can just keep on stealing other peoples resources so we 
can feed this consumber monster we have created.
 
they TRULY believe it's God's will to do this.
 
like the Teliban did when they blew up the Bhudist statues.
 
religous jihadist 
 
judeo
christian
islamic
 
all the same
 
mel

-Original Message- 
From: Clif Caldwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 11:11 AM 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to



John Hayes wrote:

Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the
source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but
also a man's character. If you have the original source for this
information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this
up. Just a thought...

Clif
   

>>>I JUST heard it on NPR!
>>>
>>>Here's the quote:

>>>http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml
>>> 
>>>
>>I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also
>>heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things "in the
>>moment" we later regret. Two things are true in this world..
>>There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's
>>salvation. It is regretable that men who are called "men of God"
>>still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of
>>sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to
>>find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson
>>consider this episode part of his refining. Clif
>>   
>>
>
>Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question
>the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now,
>when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you
>dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's
>imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry.
>
>If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he 
said?
>I thought "christians" of his ilk were all about taking personal
>responsibility? I find any "contrite apology" rather thin when only
>*yesterday* he was still claiming he was "misinterpreted". Why did he 
go
>on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when
>Monday's video clearly shows he did?
>
>"Refining" my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it.
>
>jh
>
>
> 
>
>>August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted'
>> By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
>>
>>The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today
>>apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination
>>of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.
>>
>>"Is it right to call for assassination?" he said in the statement.
>>"No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that
>>we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill
>>him."
>>
>>But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show
>>today, instead insisting that he had been been "misinterpreted" by
>>The Associated Press and that he had never used the word
>>"assassination."
>>
>>"I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out'
>>could be a number of things, including kidnapping," Mr. Robertson
>>told his audience on the show "The 700 Club" today.
>>
>>The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet,
>>shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: "If he thinks
>>we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go
>>ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I
>>don't think any oil shipments will stop." Mr. Robertson went on at
>>length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that "covert operatives" could
>>"do the job and then get it over with."
>>
>>Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson
>>today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying,
>>"Robertson does not speak

Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day






I just came home tonight and found 20 5 gallon jugs of WVO in my 
driveway.
 
guess I'm gonna be heating some oil this weekend and getting some of the 
filterable stuff out before i put it in the WVO truck.
 
My wife really got the point when I told her that EACH 5 gallon jug would 
run my truck for 100 miles and my car for 150 miles.
 
I think she is finally seeing why I keep saying sell the minvan and buy a 
TDI Jetta or a Jeep Liberty with the diesel option.
 
mel

  -Original Message- From: Mel Riser 
  Sent: Mon 8/29/2005 1:35 PM To: 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org; Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: 
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas 
  day
  I'm gonna go down and fill up ALL my diesel vehicles with B100 that 
day.
   
  mel___
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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

Title: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day





Anyone in Texas has a few choices
 
there is BioDrive in Addison
 
BioWillie at Carl's corner 
 
Ecowise on Congress
 
and Austin Biofuels on south slaughter
 
price for b99 with the tax credit is 2.99
 
b100 is 3.40
 
and the biowillie 20/80 is about the same price as regular diesel.
 
mel

  -Original Message- From: Mike Weaver 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 8/29/2005 6:25 PM 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: 
  Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
  I'm gonna drive my car around the beltway *just for fun* just 
  like theguy who was interviewed in the Washington Post last week about gas 
  prices.He was bemoaning the fact that he couldn't afford to keep his car 
  on theroad due to gas prices.  Poor fellow.Mel Riser 
  wrote:> I'm gonna go down and fill up ALL my diesel vehicles with 
  B100 that day.>> >> 
  mel>>>>___>Biofuel 
  mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel 
  at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search 
  the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
  messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> >___Biofuel 
  mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch 
  the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread subramanian D.V

Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names "extra mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it. 
 
Regards
 
SubramanianKeith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello SubramanianNot of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful - factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.htmlMTBE Fact SheetBest wishesKeith>Hello Members,>>MTBE  Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with >gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly >because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting >human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US >has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in >certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.>>It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me >what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate
 >additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 >tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before >raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.>>Regards,>>Subramanian___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

Dag Pieter

>Hello all,
>I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality 
>oil, well, that is what I thought.
>In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is 
>dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake 
>their chips.
>From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to 
>make BD from it.
>Can anyone please help me ?
>Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 
>is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the 
>future.
>E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n

It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first 
came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming 
agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small 
proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe 
they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your 
biodiesel.

Best wishes

Keith


>Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
>Pieter Koole
>Netherlands


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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

Hi Darryl

>Keith, good idea.  I'll keep track here too.  It will give me an 
>excuse to update
>my page at
>http://www.econogics.com/en/enenergy.htm#Transportation .

I was thinking there was some something I wasn't thinking of, and 
that's it. I'd do better to link to your page, and Hakan's site too. 
I've been wanting to make more links to both your sites. I'll figure 
something out.

Meanwhile, the more ideas the better.

>It needs some tidying up
>anyway.

I know the feeling! :-(

Regards

Keith


>Darryl
>
>
>Date sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 02:21:24 +0900
>To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>From:  Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject:   Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
>Send reply to: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>   
>   
>
> > Hi Darryl
> >
> > Very nice!
> >
> > >I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. 
>My point is,
> > >don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
> >
> > I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
> >
> > If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey
> > to Forever for it, might help.
> >
> > It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work
> > out that way I don't mind.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
> > >Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their
> > >gasoline stations up
> > >for sale.  After all, the managers are required to maximize the
> > >returns for their
> > >shareholders.  If the stations are losing money, they have to dump
> > >them.  I won't
> > >be holding my breath.
> > >
> > >As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.
> > >
> > >If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for 
>whatever reason,
> > >here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
> > >
> > >1)  Walk somewhere.  Anywhere.  Just leave your guzzler parked.
> > >
> > >2)  Get a bicycle.  Preferably something used.  Try your local
> > >FreeCycle, or bike
> > >repair co-op, or a used bike dealer.  Find something comfortable and
> > >practical for
> > >your use.  Then use it.
> > >
> > >3)  Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle.  Correct if
> > >necessary.  Slight
> > >overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight 
>underinflation.  Repeat
> > >monthly or more frequently if required.
> > >
> > >4)  Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule.
> > >Check owner's
> > >manual for details.  Check for dragging brakes, emissions control
> > >system problems,
> > >etc while you are at it.
> > >
> > >5)  Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
> > >
> > >6)  Use public transit when available and appropriate.  Or carpool.
> > >
> > >7)  Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your
> > >vehicle.  There are
> > >many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE
> > >dual-fuel incentive,
> > >where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel 
>capable.  Check your
> > >vehicle manual.  Use biodiesel blend where available or 
>appropriate (or make your
> > >own, of course).
> > >
> > >8)  Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra
> > >weight uses more
> > >energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear.
> > >(e.g. sand and salt
> > >mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).
> > >
> > >9)  When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser /
> > >energy wise labels.
> > >
> > >10)  When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something
> > >that is as fuel-
> > >efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not
> > >necessarily all of
> > >your needs.  You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.
> > >
> > >11)  If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company
> > >to boycott or
> > >support.  Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are
> > >local and have
> > >been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was 
>fashionable.  I boycott
> > >Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record
> > >(and other
> > >undesirable practices).  Trust me, if we actually managed to drop
> > >Exxon's gross
> > >revenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would
> > >definitely get their
> > >attention.  Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet 
>day won't.
> > >
> > >12)  Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion.  You 
>get 0 mpg when
> > >idling in stopped traffic.
> > >
> > >I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. 
>My point is,
> > >don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
> > >
> > >Darryl McMahon
> > >




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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

Hi Mike



>I personally think Open Source dovetails
>nicely with the "let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to rule
>our lives" thread that underpins many homebrewers.

With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the 
homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a 
previous post to the list by Thor Skov:

"I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm 
just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a 
local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using 
accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation 
combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up 
the good work everyone, before the planet fries."

We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the 
Biofuel list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software. 
It works very well!

Best wishes

Keith



 


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Re: [Biofuel] Virus Warnings

2005-08-30 Thread Doug Foskey

Linspire is good BUT: apparently the normal install does not secure the system 
enough (because the default is to run the user as 'Root' (ie with full Admin 
rights). This is definitely not recommended. You can set a user up, but it 
requires some work.

 Distros like Mepis, on the other hand, boot directly off the CD. Normally all 
standard hardware is detected. (there are some crippled devices like 
Winprinters (Windows driven printers that use smarts in the window driver), & 
some modems that are not easy to get working.) Once Mepis is running, you can 
select an icon to load the image to the hard disc. This will move HDD 
partitions, etc to create room if required, & set up a dual boot system. 
Mepis has most of the commonly required software on 1 CD, with the OS too.
  I love Linux, because I do not have to worry unduly about Virii, & I can 
open as many Web pages as I want (I had over 100 pages open once - I wondered 
why my system was a little slow! I commonly have 50 open: try that with the 
opposition M$ OS.) If you really are interested in Linux, check if there is a 
Linux User Group (LUG) near you, because they will always help, & there is an 
incredible amount of web based help available. (Google Linux search: look for 
newbie sites.)

regards Doug (stepping off soapbox)

PS: for the Hardware compromised try Puppy Linux: it will run on even a '486 
system happily.

On Tuesday 30 August 2005 1:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For Linux if you know
> nothing about it and want the best support in the industry to be able to
> get things done I would choose Linspire http://www.linspire.com/ The guy
> who created this was once a Microsoft employee and had left the company to
> create his own, he also has an internet phone company and a online music
> service plus something else I cannot think of right now. Myk
>
> ___

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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Doug Foskey

Hi Rumen,
 perhaps we should start a Linux Biodiesel list?? (LOL)

 I am using an IPcop firewall, which I find great. Easy to set up, and it will 
give you a secure wireless AP. On my machine I use Mepis linux, which is 
based on Debian. My systems are on 24/7. To my knowledge i have never been 
hacked.

regards Doug

PS: I feel it is important to give back to open source software in kind, so I 
have done some proofreading for documentation. Every little bit helps.

On Tuesday 30 August 2005 2:46, Rumen Slavov wrote:
>Hi all,Hi Mike,
>Grutje, Arden, you have never been alone!Linuxoids
> are all over the world! MS has been kicked out from
> Japan, China and even from Bavaria!
>   Dear Mike,rarely there are homes with just one
> comp.In my house there are 4 and the net comes trough
> firewalled router on Linux kernel, supplying two more
> houses with shared Internet. This situation lasts for
> 2,5 years now and we all have not experienced any
> troubles.My comp is dual boot - Linux/XP, `kuz my son
> likes to play games under Windows, but even in this
> case everything goes smooth.
>   I would like to ask for assistance again - do
> somebody knows how perform quality test of BD using
> paper chromatography?
>   Best to all
>R.Slavov
>
> __
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Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots

2005-08-30 Thread Doug Foskey

Hi,
 I actually answered this before

 When you operate the lever, 1/2 the magnets turn over, effectively short 
circuiting the magnetic field (ie every second magnet flips over). When the 
lever is in the lock position, all the magnets line up to send the field 
through the workpiece. It only takes a small amount of effort to operate the 
lever, because the magnets pivot, effectively cancelling the pull of the 
field.

regards Doug


On Tuesday 30 August 2005 4:24, Joe Street wrote:
> Hi Chris;
>
> Why don't you tell me since you have the device and I don't.  I am
> guessing that the lever acts on a fulcrum and raises the magnet from the
> base a small distance.
>
> Joe
>
> Chris lloyd wrote:
> > Hi Joe, what is the lever doing inside the tool holder, it moves about
> > 4 inches.   Chris.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > *From:* Joe Street 
> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > 
> > *Sent:* Monday, August 29, 2005 6:39 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
> >
> > You mean a little force over a long distance like?
> >
> > Chris lloyd wrote:
> >>  >> external device required.<
> >>
> >> >> How did you move the lever then?? <<
> >>
> >> It is not that there is no force used to move the lever, it takes
> >> very little force to move the lever and without moving it I
> >> cannot move the tool holder. The force used to move the lever
> >> seems disproportional to the release of the tool holder.   Chris.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> > 
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Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine