Re: [Biofuel] MB Diesel for bio-diesel use

2005-08-30 Thread DB
Doug, Could you please give me more info on blowing out the fuel injectors? 
thanksDB
- Original Message - 
From: Douglas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] MB Diesel for bio-diesel use


 Peter Childers asks about MB 300D.

 My favorite car of all time was a 1980 MB 300D. (they were imported to
 the U.S. from 1979 'till 1985) I would have another in a flash, and may
 get one again soon. It is a sublime car to drive, especially on the
 road! It has an unbelievable turning radius, making it very
 maneuverable for a 4-door sedan.

 The 5-cylinder is a great engine, and even without the turbo performed
 quite well. It was even fast enough for me!  LOL  Most advised me I'd
 be disappointed with it's pick-up and such - but this engine will take
 anything you throw at it, so I just nailed it most of the time off the
 line and was always satisfied.

 The ONE thing that I think is most important is that THESE CARS ARE
 SAFE!!! I was rear-ended by a rather fast moving Mitsubishi while
 stopped at an intersection and pushed not only into but through a very
 large intersection - Broadway and Van Ness in SF for those who know it
 - and there was NO visible damage!!! You had to feel the hard rubber on
 the bumper to feel where the headlight glass had broken against it. The
 Mitsu was collapsed all the way to the cowl (windshield) and was
 clearly totaled!

 As far as I'm concerned, the MB Diesel is THE car of choice even
 without bio-fuels! I'd be a bit concerned about the 4-yrs non-use, but
 165K miles is mild on that car. When I bought mine, my MB mechanic told
 me that if it had less than 175K on it and when warmed up, with the
 oil-filler cap removed, didn't smoke out that opening, then don't even
 bother to bring it to him, just buy it since it would just be broken in.

 My mechanic - a certified MB mechanic - has worked on a MB 300 TD
 (wagon) owned by a man from Marin County who has been influential in
 the rebirth of bio-diesel. This vehicle has been driven for 10 yrs or
 so on bio-diesel, and the mechanic says the engine is cleaner and runs
 better, and is generally in better shape than 10 years ago!

 Get the best one you can get and go!

 Doug

 PS - a couple of tips. The thing to look for when buying is how well
 the such things as climate control, vacuum system (door locks et al)
 are working. The climate control unit was built for them by Chrysler
 and was very good, but didn't last as long as MB components, and it's a
 complex system. ALSO be sure you learn how to manually blow out the
 fuel injectors. Anytime mine started to run less than well, I'd blow
 them out (takes three-minutes) and it would be as if I'd just done a
 tune-up.


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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hello Taryn Too


 Thank you bringing
here the useful information about the reality
of of our actual religion, I fully agree with your critical
point .We have to have an positive and negative analysis, the
illusion
and also the mental help that is provided by the
religion where I find the
people all over the world can come and work for the people if the want
via church .
You imagine that million of people (54%) on the north east of the
Brazil and 12 percent in Amazonian area and they do not
know what is
electricity, basic need the food and education. The biofuel
from biomass ca be the great future for them .


 Yet, the university do little , but for them
the only hope via
radio is the religion and not the illusion.As you correctly
pointed
out there are several illusion negative points too , you
coorectly pointed out , economic and political goals as well
as Propaganda of what is being done Many big festivals
spending using the money collected to
help the poor are really not acceptable.Taking account of all
positive
and negative side and also the poor , I feel that the
hope of the religion is
surely more than the illusion and surely
liberty and education play
role that what this list members wish to deal the
rural problem in an
integrated way , rather than isolated partial
technocratic problem
solving one. Let us all join here to see the great green future
using biofuel to all.



 Yours truely

Pannirselvam P.V

On 8/30/05, Pannirselvam  P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-- Forwarded message --From: TarynToo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Aug 30, 2005 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and IllusionTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Hello Pannirselvam,Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've
assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of theCatholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been yearssince I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practicehatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubledby several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).Here in the west, Darwin's theories, nature red in tooth and claw,were used as justification for Social Darwinism, which claimed that
the poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving ofopportunity, education, or fair treatment.I see reincarnation, andthe caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the lower

castes are seen as failed souls, not enlightened enough to deserve aplace in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought arerejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but that the
bigotry and sexism continue.So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a toolof oppression, creating economic and social disparity without regard tothe 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.
Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much goodwork, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the useof condoms and other birth control methods.

http://www.aegis.com/news/ads/2003/AD032597.html This has acceleratedthe spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many thousands ofunnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schism
between the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with thelocal priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom stance.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051005G.shtml
 This is certainly awelcome change, but the Vatican continues it's policies against AIDSprevention education. It's not the first time the Vatican has taken astance obviously against Christ's teaching, often only to serve their
economic or political goals.A bright spot in all this has been the emergence of Catholic LiberationTheology, which at least provides a counter force to the constantcapitalist propaganda imposed on all the Americas.
American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power inLatin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDSmisinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we canbe sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.
I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media powerbeing used to suppress democratic processes all over the world, but Isuspect that the church often falls on the wrong side of this battle,
they have usually supported the economic elite in class struggles, evenas their missionaries were striving to help the poor and dispossessed.I know you're 'on the ground' in Brazil, and you're seeing many

courageous, dedicated christians doing good works, against great odds.I guess I'm trying to say that you're seeing those with 'true religion
with ethicsand also truedemocratic politics' actually doing whatneeds doing. Those who send them often have other goals.
Tarynornae.comOn 8/30/05, TarynToo
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hello Pannirselvam,
Forgive me for taking exception to 

Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Montour

 What is Propylene Glycol?

Not as bad as it sounds from this article.

 Yes, the main ingredient in anti-freeze is in all of these products.
 Shocked?  You should be!

Anti-freeze is something that lowers the freezing point of water.
That's not shocking; sugar or salt will do that.

Also, it is misleading to discuss anti-freeze without mentioning that
both propylene and ethylene glycol are commonly used for this purpose
(and that ethylene glycol is the one associated with the traditional
toxic effects of automotive anti-freeze).

 PROPYLENE GLYCOL is used in:
 Anti-Freeze  * Brake and Hydraulic Fluid  * De-Icer  * Paints and
 Coatings *  Floor Wax  * Laundry Detergents  * Pet Food  * Tobacco * 
 Cosmetics  * Toothpastes  * Shampoos  * Deodorants  * Lotions *
 Processed Foods and many more personal care items.
 Check out your body lotions, deodorant, hair conditioner, hair gel,
 creams, and many more products!

So it's a common chemical. That's still not cause for concern.

By the way, many of those items also contain Dihydrogen Monoxide! See
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html if you are not familiar with this
potentially-lethal substance.

 Propylene Glycol serves as a Humectant - a substance that helps retain
 moisture content, or simply -it prevents things from drying out.

Also not cause for concern.

 A published clinical review showed propylene glycol causes a significant
 number of reactions and was a primary irritant to the skin even in low
 levels of concentrations.
 The American Academy of Dermatologists, Inc; Jan. 1991

Studies like this _are_ worth pointing out. It would be a shorter and
more useful article if it stuck to references like this.

 Has anyone or any company tested the long-range side effects from
 constant use of these products?  We haven't found any.  Do these complex
 chemicals build up in our bodies?  If Propylene Glycol keeps things from
 drying out - how?  If it's absorbed into our bloodstream and into our
 cells, what does it do?  Does it affect any of the simple, natural
 biological functions at the cellular level?  You don't need a study to
 say - it's possible, even likely.

Those are good questions. It sounds like it's worth studying. I expect
that many of the answers are known already (e.g. someone previously
mentioning that PG is metabolized to pyruvate). Here's a quick Google
result that talks about it:

http://yarchive.net/med/antifreeze_eat.html

 You do need a conclusive study to make the producers stop using these
 ingredients! 

The previous paragraph was all about not knowing what PG did in the
body. The article now assumes that if the studies were done, the results
would support the hypothesis that it's dangerous. That's not good science.

 The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Propylene Glycol says:  May
 be harmful by ingestion or skin absorption.  May cause eye irritation,
 skin irritation.  Chronic exposure can cause gastro-intestinal
 disturbances, nausea, headache and vomiting, central nervous system
 depression. 

There's an MSDS here:

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p6928.htm

It says for example
 Ingestion:
  Relatively non-toxic. Ingestion of sizable amount (over 100ml) may
cause some gastrointestinal upset and temporary central nervous system
depression. Effects appear more severe in individuals with kidney
problems. 

So it's not harmless, but it's safer than something like ethanol:

http://www.herc.org/msds/chemicals/ethanol.htm

 PG can have an anesthetic effect.  Other side
 effects on animals exposed to PG include heart arrhythmia, stunted
 growth, decreased blood pressure, and even death.

Possibly valid points, but what conditions, concentrations, durations of
exposure, etc? Without sufficient context it's difficult to assess the
severity of these effects.

 sheet (MSDS) and it may alarm you to find that this common, widely used
 humectant has a cautionary warning in its MSDS that reads, If on skin:
 thoroughly wash with soap and water! What? Aren't we putting this stuff
 on our skins daily, sometimes in copious amounts over long periods of time?

That sounds like standard boilerplate for an MSDS. Sodium chloride
(table salt) carries a similar warning.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm


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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam

Did you read this?

http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 
5-August/003230.html
Or:
http://snipurl.com/hb3u
[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to 
Speak for Jesus

I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I posted 
that instead.

By the way, here's Doug's post, Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Thanks!:

http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 
5-August/003279.html
Or:
http://snipurl.com/hb3w

I don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is 
mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the other 
issues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsense 
about the US and Islam, the odious Clash of Civilisations type of 
thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of Christian 
Zionists in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects on 
politics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.

On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be 
brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer to 
each other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims. 
Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in each 
other's heads?

Best wishes

Keith



Hello Pannirselvam,

Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've
assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of the
Catholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been years
since I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practice
hatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubled
by several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).

Here in the west, Darwin's theories, nature red in tooth and claw,
were used as justification for Social Darwinism, which claimed that
the poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving of
opportunity, education, or fair treatment.  I see reincarnation, and
the caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the lower
castes are seen as failed souls, not enlightened enough to deserve a
place in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought are
rejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but that the
bigotry and sexism continue.

So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a tool
of oppression, creating economic and social disparity without regard to
the 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.

Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much good
work, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the use
of condoms and other birth control methods.
http://www.aegis.com/news/ads/2003/AD032597.html This has accelerated
the spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many thousands of
unnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schism
between the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with the
local priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom stance.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051005G.shtml This is certainly a
welcome change, but the Vatican continues it's policies against AIDS
prevention education. It's not the first time the Vatican has taken a
stance obviously against Christ's teaching, often only to serve their
economic or political goals.

A bright spot in all this has been the emergence of Catholic Liberation
Theology, which at least provides a counter force to the constant
capitalist propaganda imposed on all the Americas.

American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power in
Latin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDS
misinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we can
be sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.

I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media power
being used to suppress democratic processes all over the world, but I
suspect that the church often falls on the wrong side of this battle,
they have usually supported the economic elite in class struggles, even
as their missionaries were striving to help the poor and dispossessed.

I know you're 'on the ground' in Brazil, and you're seeing many
courageous, dedicated christians doing good works, against great odds.
I guess I'm trying to say that you're seeing those with 'true religion
with ethics and also true democratic politics' actually doing what
needs doing. Those who send them often have other goals.

Taryn
ornae.com


On Aug 29, 2005, at 5:35 PM, Pannirselvam P.V wrote:

   Dear  Doug Swanson
 
I appreciate  your   well   thoughtful  letter regarding our
  list.But  I am not able to fully understand yet   that religion
  develop  illusion  as I  native of  India , presently in Brazil .
  Here religion  always  do better thing , the school , the hospital , 
  the project for the poor 

Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Mike

snip

By the way, many of those items also contain Dihydrogen Monoxide! See
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html if you are not familiar with this
potentially-lethal substance.

It was funny the first time but less funny the 19th time.
http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=andformat=shortc 
onfig=biofuel_sustainablelists_orgrestrict=exclude=words=%22Dihydro 
gen+Monoxide%22
Or:
http://snipurl.com/hb53
Search results for 'Dihydrogen Monoxide'

To save everyone the trouble, Dihydrogen Monoxide = H2O = water. The 
award-winning U.S. scientist Nathan Zohner was a 14-year-old 
college student who wrote it in 1997, having first lifted it off the 
Internet where it had been circulating for ages. It's addressed at 
the gullibility of other 14-year-old students, but is often used as 
an amusing sneer at allegedly naive and over-anxious people who don't 
trust the chemical corporations, which on the contrary you'd have to 
be extremely naive to trust, as well as blind.

See snopes, once again:
http://www.snopes.com/toxins/dhmo.htm
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Toxin du jour (Dihydrogen Monoxide)

Best wishes

Keith


snip

 


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Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots

2005-08-30 Thread Doug Foskey
Hi,
 I actually answered this before

 When you operate the lever, 1/2 the magnets turn over, effectively short 
circuiting the magnetic field (ie every second magnet flips over). When the 
lever is in the lock position, all the magnets line up to send the field 
through the workpiece. It only takes a small amount of effort to operate the 
lever, because the magnets pivot, effectively cancelling the pull of the 
field.

regards Doug


On Tuesday 30 August 2005 4:24, Joe Street wrote:
 Hi Chris;

 Why don't you tell me since you have the device and I don't.  I am
 guessing that the lever acts on a fulcrum and raises the magnet from the
 base a small distance.

 Joe

 Chris lloyd wrote:
  Hi Joe, what is the lever doing inside the tool holder, it moves about
  4 inches.   Chris.
 
  - Original Message -
  *From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  *Sent:* Monday, August 29, 2005 6:39 PM
  *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
 
  You mean a little force over a long distance like?
 
  Chris lloyd wrote:
  The magnets are swiched off using a lever. No power or
  external device required.
 
   How did you move the lever then?? 
 
  It is not that there is no force used to move the lever, it takes
  very little force to move the lever and without moving it I
  cannot move the tool holder. The force used to move the lever
  seems disproportional to the release of the tool holder.   Chris.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Doug Foskey
Hi Rumen,
 perhaps we should start a Linux Biodiesel list?? (LOL)

 I am using an IPcop firewall, which I find great. Easy to set up, and it will 
give you a secure wireless AP. On my machine I use Mepis linux, which is 
based on Debian. My systems are on 24/7. To my knowledge i have never been 
hacked.

regards Doug

PS: I feel it is important to give back to open source software in kind, so I 
have done some proofreading for documentation. Every little bit helps.

On Tuesday 30 August 2005 2:46, Rumen Slavov wrote:
Hi all,Hi Mike,
Grutje, Arden, you have never been alone!Linuxoids
 are all over the world! MS has been kicked out from
 Japan, China and even from Bavaria!
   Dear Mike,rarely there are homes with just one
 comp.In my house there are 4 and the net comes trough
 firewalled router on Linux kernel, supplying two more
 houses with shared Internet. This situation lasts for
 2,5 years now and we all have not experienced any
 troubles.My comp is dual boot - Linux/XP, `kuz my son
 likes to play games under Windows, but even in this
 case everything goes smooth.
   I would like to ask for assistance again - do
 somebody knows how perform quality test of BD using
 paper chromatography?
   Best to all
R.Slavov

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Re: [Biofuel] Virus Warnings

2005-08-30 Thread Doug Foskey
Linspire is good BUT: apparently the normal install does not secure the system 
enough (because the default is to run the user as 'Root' (ie with full Admin 
rights). This is definitely not recommended. You can set a user up, but it 
requires some work.

 Distros like Mepis, on the other hand, boot directly off the CD. Normally all 
standard hardware is detected. (there are some crippled devices like 
Winprinters (Windows driven printers that use smarts in the window driver),  
some modems that are not easy to get working.) Once Mepis is running, you can 
select an icon to load the image to the hard disc. This will move HDD 
partitions, etc to create room if required,  set up a dual boot system. 
Mepis has most of the commonly required software on 1 CD, with the OS too.
  I love Linux, because I do not have to worry unduly about Virii,  I can 
open as many Web pages as I want (I had over 100 pages open once - I wondered 
why my system was a little slow! I commonly have 50 open: try that with the 
opposition M$ OS.) If you really are interested in Linux, check if there is a 
Linux User Group (LUG) near you, because they will always help,  there is an 
incredible amount of web based help available. (Google Linux search: look for 
newbie sites.)

regards Doug (stepping off soapbox)

PS: for the Hardware compromised try Puppy Linux: it will run on even a '486 
system happily.




On Tuesday 30 August 2005 1:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For Linux if you know
 nothing about it and want the best support in the industry to be able to
 get things done I would choose Linspire http://www.linspire.com/ The guy
 who created this was once a Microsoft employee and had left the company to
 create his own, he also has an internet phone company and a online music
 service plus something else I cannot think of right now. Myk

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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Mike

snip

I personally think Open Source dovetails
nicely with the let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to rule
our lives thread that underpins many homebrewers.

With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the 
homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a 
previous post to the list by Thor Skov:

I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm 
just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a 
local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using 
accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation 
combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up 
the good work everyone, before the planet fries.

We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the 
Biofuel list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software. 
It works very well!

Best wishes

Keith

snip

 


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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Darryl

Keith, good idea.  I'll keep track here too.  It will give me an 
excuse to update
my page at
http://www.econogics.com/en/enenergy.htm#Transportation .

I was thinking there was some something I wasn't thinking of, and 
that's it. I'd do better to link to your page, and Hakan's site too. 
I've been wanting to make more links to both your sites. I'll figure 
something out.

Meanwhile, the more ideas the better.

It needs some tidying up
anyway.

I know the feeling! :-(

Regards

Keith


Darryl


Date sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 02:21:24 +0900
To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
From:  Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:   Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
Send reply to: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Hi Darryl
 
  Very nice!
 
  I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. 
My point is,
  don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
 
  I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
 
  If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey
  to Forever for it, might help.
 
  It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work
  out that way I don't mind.
 
  Best wishes
 
  Keith
 
 
 
  Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their
  gasoline stations up
  for sale.  After all, the managers are required to maximize the
  returns for their
  shareholders.  If the stations are losing money, they have to dump
  them.  I won't
  be holding my breath.
  
  As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.
  
  If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for 
whatever reason,
  here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
  
  1)  Walk somewhere.  Anywhere.  Just leave your guzzler parked.
  
  2)  Get a bicycle.  Preferably something used.  Try your local
  FreeCycle, or bike
  repair co-op, or a used bike dealer.  Find something comfortable and
  practical for
  your use.  Then use it.
  
  3)  Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle.  Correct if
  necessary.  Slight
  overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight 
underinflation.  Repeat
  monthly or more frequently if required.
  
  4)  Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule.
  Check owner's
  manual for details.  Check for dragging brakes, emissions control
  system problems,
  etc while you are at it.
  
  5)  Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
  
  6)  Use public transit when available and appropriate.  Or carpool.
  
  7)  Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your
  vehicle.  There are
  many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE
  dual-fuel incentive,
  where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel 
capable.  Check your
  vehicle manual.  Use biodiesel blend where available or 
appropriate (or make your
  own, of course).
  
  8)  Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra
  weight uses more
  energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear.
  (e.g. sand and salt
  mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).
  
  9)  When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser /
  energy wise labels.
  
  10)  When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something
  that is as fuel-
  efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not
  necessarily all of
  your needs.  You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.
  
  11)  If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company
  to boycott or
  support.  Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are
  local and have
  been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was 
fashionable.  I boycott
  Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record
  (and other
  undesirable practices).  Trust me, if we actually managed to drop
  Exxon's gross
  revenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would
  definitely get their
  attention.  Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet 
day won't.
  
  12)  Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion.  You 
get 0 mpg when
  idling in stopped traffic.
  
  I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. 
My point is,
  don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
  
  Darryl McMahon
  

snip


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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Dag Pieter

Hello all,
I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality 
oil, well, that is what I thought.
In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is 
dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake 
their chips.
From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to 
make BD from it.
Can anyone please help me ?
Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 
is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the 
future.
E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n

It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first 
came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming 
agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small 
proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe 
they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your 
biodiesel.

Best wishes

Keith


Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole
Netherlands


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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

2005-08-30 Thread Mel Riser
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day





Anyone in Texas has a few choices

there is BioDrive in Addison

BioWillie at Carl's corner 

Ecowise on Congress

and Austin Biofuels on south slaughter

price for b99 with the tax credit is 2.99

b100 is 3.40

and the biowillie 20/80 is about the same price as regular diesel.

mel

  -Original Message- From: Mike Weaver 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 8/29/2005 6:25 PM 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: 
  Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
  I'm gonna drive my car around the beltway *just for fun* just 
  like theguy who was interviewed in the Washington Post last week about gas 
  prices.He was bemoaning the fact that he couldn't afford to keep his car 
  on theroad due to gas prices. Poor fellow.Mel Riser 
  wrote: I'm gonna go down and fill up ALL my diesel vehicles with 
  B100 that day. 
  mel___Biofuel 
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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread subramanian D.V
Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies are introducingslightly costlier petrol with brand names "extra mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it. 

Regards

SubramanianKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello SubramanianNot of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful - factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.htmlMTBE Fact SheetBest wishesKeithHello Members,MTBE – Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate
 additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.Regards,Subramanian___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

2005-08-30 Thread Mel Riser





I just came home tonight and found 20 5 gallon jugs of WVO in my 
driveway.

guess I'm gonna be heating some oil this weekend and getting some of the 
filterable stuff out before i put it in the WVO truck.

My wife really got the point when I told her that EACH 5 gallon jug would 
run my truck for 100 miles and my car for 150 miles.

I think she is finally seeing why I keep saying sell the minvan and buy a 
TDI Jetta or a Jeep Liberty with the diesel option.

mel

  -Original Message- From: Mel Riser 
  Sent: Mon 8/29/2005 1:35 PM To: 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org; Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: 
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas 
  day
  I'm gonna go down and fill up ALL my diesel vehicles with B100 that 
day.
  
  mel___
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Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to

2005-08-30 Thread Mel Riser
what if their religous leaders said the same thing about us?
 
isn't that what the wahbi's and taliban and AlCIAduh all are preaching?
 
what right do we have to interfere with another countries elected leaders.
 
It's THEIR OIL they can CHOOSE to not sell us any if they want to.
 
These people think they can just keep on stealing other peoples resources so we 
can feed this consumber monster we have created.
 
they TRULY believe it's God's will to do this.
 
like the Teliban did when they blew up the Bhudist statues.
 
religous jihadist 
 
judeo
christian
islamic
 
all the same
 
mel

-Original Message- 
From: Clif Caldwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 11:11 AM 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to



John Hayes wrote:

Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the
source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but
also a man's character. If you have the original source for this
information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this
up. Just a thought...

Clif
   

I JUST heard it on NPR!

Here's the quote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml
 

I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also
heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the
moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world..
There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's
salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God
still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of
sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to
find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson
consider this episode part of his refining. Clif
   


Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question
the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now,
when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you
dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's
imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry.

If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he 
said?
I thought christians of his ilk were all about taking personal
responsibility? I find any contrite apology rather thin when only
*yesterday* he was still claiming he was misinterpreted. Why did he 
go
on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when
Monday's video clearly shows he did?

Refining my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it.

jh


 

August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted'
 By LAURIE GOODSTEIN

The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today
apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination
of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.

Is it right to call for assassination? he said in the statement.
No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that
we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill
him.

But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show
today, instead insisting that he had been been misinterpreted by
The Associated Press and that he had never used the word
assassination.

I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out'
could be a number of things, including kidnapping, Mr. Robertson
told his audience on the show The 700 Club today.

The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet,
shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: If he thinks
we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go
ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I
don't think any oil shipments will stop. Mr. Robertson went on at
length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that covert operatives could
do the job and then get it over with.

Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson
today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying,
Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We believe in
justice and the protection of human rights of all people, including
the life of President Chavez.

On Tuesday, Mr. 

Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Thank you Keith bringing here topics unknown to many of our list

 India and Pakistan have been always brothers as
India has been always adopted to all the religion first
Arians , then budha , then Muslim , then Christanism and
lately all gloabised Evangelism too as religion always
considerd as the best way to live with true spirutalism ,out
materialism , without consumadorism and free way of thinking

 India was misunderstood when
Bangladesh become free , but sure the people of the India
nad Pakistan have the same history and wish keep awy from
any Nuclear weapons away.
 
 I am sure India will never go far Nuclear
war as this will be against the very million and
million peoples way of thinking.

 Indian Parliment will never aprove to send money to
kill any human in other country , which it never has done expect
its defens being in the world as this is
against all the religion of the country. Thanks the
mass education after independence which has made India as
truely independet very big democracy of the world.

Pannirselvam P.V

On 8/30/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Taryn, PannirselvamDid you read this?http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/2005-August/003230.html
Or:http://snipurl.com/hb3u[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followersWho Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim toSpeak for Jesus
I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I postedthat instead.By the way, here's Doug's post, Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Thanks!:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/2005-August/003279.htmlOr:http://snipurl.com/hb3wI don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the otherissues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsenseabout the US and Islam, the odious Clash of Civilisations type of
thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of ChristianZionists in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects onpolitics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer toeach other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in eachother's heads?
Best wishesKeithHello Pannirselvam,Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I'veassumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of the
Catholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been yearssince I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practicehatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubledby several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).Here in the west, Darwin's theories, nature red in tooth and claw,
were used as justification for Social Darwinism, which claimed thatthe poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving ofopportunity, education, or fair treatment.I see reincarnation, and
the caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the lowercastes are seen as failed souls, not enlightened enough to deserve aplace in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought are
rejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but that thebigotry and sexism continue.So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a toolof oppression, creating economic and social disparity without regard to
the 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much goodwork, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the use
of condoms and other birth control methods.http://www.aegis.com/news/ads/2003/AD032597.html This has acceleratedthe spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many thousands of
unnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schismbetween the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with thelocal priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom stance.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051005G.shtml This is certainly awelcome change, but the Vatican continues it's policies against AIDS
prevention education. It's not the first time the Vatican has taken astance obviously against Christ's teaching, often only to serve theireconomic or political goals.A bright spot in all this has been the emergence of Catholic Liberation
Theology, which at least provides a counter force to the constantcapitalist propaganda imposed on all the Americas.American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power inLatin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDS
misinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we canbe sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media power
being 

Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Michael Redler

I've become a big fan of Linux too. I plan on having a couple of distributions of Linux on machines in my house. The biggest reason (besides virus protection) is that some of the distributions available, are compatible with computers going back to windows 3.1. In addition, they all come with C compilers. So, I can resurrect old computers to do other useful things like machine control, etc.

Appropriate technologies make use of materials, technologiesand skills that are readily available in your community. Since a lot of older computers have a scrap value of near zero, are abundantly available and can be applied to a useful purpose, I think it can arguably be called "appropriate" in that context for the region in which I live. In fact, I think it serves a dual purpose as a measure of conservation - keeping them out ofland fills for as long as possible.

Mike
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi MikeI personally think Open Source dovetailsnicely with the "let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to ruleour lives" thread that underpins many homebrewers.With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a previous post to the list by Thor Skov:"I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, before the planet fries."We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the Biofuel
 list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software. It works very well!Best wishesKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___
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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

2005-08-30 Thread Stephan van Wyk
Look at www.ubuntulinux.org
Fantastic debian flavoured os with easy setup and functional kde. (needs no
gas!)

Stephan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Arden B.
Norder
Sent: 29 August 2005 02:26
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members


Halellujah . . . I'm not alone!!!

I live for and work with linux everyday all day long - It just works . . .
all
the time!!!

Greetings from Holland!!!

Arden

On Aug 29, 2005 10:23 AM, Rumen Slavov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Dear Friends,
   As I wrote, there are not viruses for Linux. In the
 earliest `80 there were a couple of exploits ( not
 viruses!), but they dyed soon, when the kernel has
 changed. The creation of a virus is a complicate
 process, one has to know the exact target, what is
 almost impossible with the variety of kernels in the
 comps of the net. Linux is quickly evolving OS and
 this is understandable - say 2000 programmers in
 Richmond can not lead competition with 2 000 000
 worldwide. I have been running different Linux
 distributions for some 6 years and I have always in my
 pocket a small CD 215 MB live CD to revive dead MS
 comps.
   Don`t get confused - use Linux!
Best
   R.Slavov

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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Pieter Koole
Thanks Keith,
If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ?
I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I mix
any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With hard I mean
as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly.
Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will
have to deal with this more and more in the future.
Thanks again.

 Dag Pieter

 Hello all,
 I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
 oil, well, that is what I thought.
 In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is
 dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake
 their chips.
 From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to
 make BD from it.
 Can anyone please help me ?
 Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900
 is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the
 future.
 E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n

 It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first
 came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming
 agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
 proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe
 they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your
 biodiesel.

 Best wishes

 Keith


 Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
 Pieter Koole
 Netherlands


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Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to

2005-08-30 Thread Stephan van Wyk
There is no way to peace; peace is the way. (Ghandi) 
By this he is saying that we must simply BE in peace. And that means being
non judgmental and loving - toward all creatures... At the end of the day it
comes down to love and respect and forgiveness.
 
Love and respect your neighbor
Love and respect the Earth and its creatures
Love and respect yourself
 
Peace
Stephan
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Mel Riser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Mel Riser
Sent: 30 August 2005 11:45
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] What has the world come to


what if their religous leaders said the same thing about us?
 
isn't that what the wahbi's and taliban and AlCIAduh all are preaching?
 
what right do we have to interfere with another countries elected leaders.
 
It's THEIR OIL they can CHOOSE to not sell us any if they want to.
 
These people think they can just keep on stealing other peoples resources so
we can feed this consumber monster we have created.
 
they TRULY believe it's God's will to do this.
 
like the Teliban did when they blew up the Bhudist statues.
 
religous jihadist 
 
judeo
christian
islamic
 
all the same
 
mel

-Original Message- 
From: Clif Caldwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 11:11 AM 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to



John Hayes wrote:

Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the
source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but
also a man's character. If you have the original source for this
information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this
up. Just a thought...

Clif
   

I JUST heard it on NPR!

Here's the quote:
 http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-091702
00-bc-us-robertson.xml article=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml
 

I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also
heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the
moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world..
There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's
salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God
still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of
sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to
find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson
consider this episode part of his refining. Clif
   


Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question
the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now,
when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you
dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's
imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry.

If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he said?
I thought christians of his ilk were all about taking personal
responsibility? I find any contrite apology rather thin when only
*yesterday* he was still claiming he was misinterpreted. Why did he go
on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when
Monday's video clearly shows he did?

Refining my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it.

jh


 

August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted'
 By LAURIE GOODSTEIN

The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today
apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination
of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.

Is it right to call for assassination? he said in the statement.
No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that
we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill
him.

But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show
today, instead insisting that he had been been misinterpreted by
The Associated Press and that he had never used the word
assassination.

I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out'
could be a number of things, including kidnapping, Mr. Robertson
told his audience on the show The 700 Club today.

The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet,
shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: If he thinks
we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go
ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I
don't think any oil shipments will stop. Mr. Robertson went on at
length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that covert operatives could
do the job and then get it over with.

Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson
today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying,
Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We believe in
justice and the protection of human rights of all people, including
the life of President Chavez.

On Tuesday, Mr. Robertson's comments were denounced by both the State
Department and 

Re: [Biofuel] Background statistics for energy and more....

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Yup - spent a little time there myself, as well as in West Africa.  I 
always said if Nigerians put as much energy into legitimate business 
ventures as they did in trying rip each other off they's be running the 
world.  Oh well.  Obasanjo is actually cleaning things up a bit.

-Mike

Hakan Falk wrote:

Mike,

Yes, Nigeria were #100 on least corrupted countries and now they are #144.

US is still keeping its 17-19 position however, good, despite the 
Bush administration.

Spain is also the same, but Sweden who had a shared 5 position with 
Singapore, have now fallen to 6.

LOL

Hakan


At 05:30 30/08/2005, you wrote:
  

Darn,

Nigeria has fallen out of #1.

Hakan Falk wrote:



mphee,

Something that I follow and found very important for evaluations and
discussions are several public statistical reports, two of the most
important to read is,

UNDP's report on human development,
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/pdf/hdr04_complete.pdf

and

BP's energy report,
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_engli 
  

sh/publications/energy_reviews_2005/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/pdf/statistical_review_of_world_energy_full_report_2005.pdf
 



there are long links so many must copy and paste to get there. An
other interesting report is the Global corruption report and I like
to look at the following,

http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/gcr2005/download/english/corr 
  

uption_research_%20I.pdf


one interesting special is,

Corruption in post-conflict reconstruction,
http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/gcr2005/download/english/corr 
  

uption_post_conflict_%20rec.pdf


All are very valuable background for discussions. They can take a
long time to download if you have a slow connection, but it is 
  

well worth it.


Hakan




At 17:22 29/08/2005, you wrote:


  

The econmic meltdown doesn't scare me as much as the next world war.

The economy has had meltdowns before and it will again.  I 


believe the US is


resourcful enough to come back.  Though our great dependacy on foreign oil
could make that a lot harder.

As oil is depleted more and more there will be maneuvering by countries to
retain/adquire/secure the last reserves.  Is it completely 


outside the realm


of possiblities that's why we're in iraq.  China's army out numbers us at
least 2 to 1, but not as advanced and trained.  India's army is 


becoming more


advanced all the time.  Both of which are a lot closer than us to 


the middle


east.  Give them 10-20 years.

US has dug a pretty deep hole.  Carter had put in new CAFE 


(milage requiremnts


for cars/trucks) requiremnts that Reagan through out.  If they 


had stayed it


could have greatly reduced our dependancy on oil.  Transportation 


uses 74% of


the 20+ mbbls we use a day of oil.



On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:16:11 -0700 (PDT), Kirk McLoren wrote




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,16416680,
00.html
-
Print this page
Dumping of US dollar could trigger 'economic September 11'
There is a potentially fatal flaw at the heart of the global
economy: the strong possibility of financial meltdown following a
collapse of confidence in the greenback, Clyde Prestowitz tells
Bruce Stannard 29aug05

THE nightmare scenario that haunts global strategist Clyde
Prestowitz is an economic September 11 -- a worldwide financial
panic triggered by a sudden massive sell-off of US dollars that
would lead inexorably to the collapse of economies around the world.



  


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Re: [Biofuel] Oil questions

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Where did you find that price?

I've made Biodiesel from canola successfully.

John Wilson wrote:

 Hi
 Has anyone tried canola oil in their oil pan as a substitute for 
 fossil oil. If so what were the results.
 :http://www.rense.com/ufo/motoroil.htm
 How many liters in a tonne of canola oil.  spot price for Canola oil 
 is $268.00 per tonne. How much is that per liter. I am taking a rough 
 guess that a liter of canola oil weights .98 kgs roughly 26 cents per 
 liter.
  
 Yours truly
 John Wilson
 ***
 Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
 Goldens
 Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
 Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
  Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
  
 In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 
 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
 ^^^
 Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)



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[Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu 2.6 4banger?

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver


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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Or we boycott companies that set up offshore shells to avoid US taxes.  
Black and Decker, Accenture and so on, but want to use US courts, which 
taxes support.


David M. Brockes wrote:

This is why we need a Flat Tax system in this country for both Individual
and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
we have todayand most of us would probably pay less, but certainly
everyone would pay a fair share.and think of all the savings there
would be from all the extra costs currently related to our Tax system!!
Just IMHO!!
Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.


It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
(preferably not at all).

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada



On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Jerry Eyers wrote:

  

Funny tidbit.  BP says they loose money on their gas stations, $100mil
  

last


year.  You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you delivery it,
  

and
  

you


sell it.  How do you loose money when you control all aspects of it.
  

Just
  

by


vertues of econmies of scale you have to make money.
  


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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread khamhiane inthava
Dear Keith,

I have followed your forum for a while.

You said that "It's used here in Japan too", is that mean you are currently in Japan? The reason I asked is that if yes I would like to visite you to see physically your projects.

Thanks in advance

Best regards,
KhamhianeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dag PieterHello all,I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality oil, well, that is what I thought.In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake their chips.From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to make BD from it.Can anyone please help me ?Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the future.E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)nIt's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
 proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your biodiesel.Best wishesKeithMet dank en vriendelijke groet,Pieter KooleNetherlands___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Cohabitation

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Nah, the kids have their own room.

Douglas Smith wrote:

Michael Redler wrote:

Uh oh.  I'm cohabitating illegally.  Wait'll I tell my GF. 

You know, Michael, I don't have anything against you and your 
girlfriend doing whatever you like in private - or any other straight 
couple - but must you flaunt it in front of the rest of us? The 
children might see and then we'd have to explain!

(NOTE: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Doug


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in 
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral 
justification for selfishness.
- economist John Kenneth Galbraith


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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.

Michael Redler wrote:

 I've become a big fan of Linux too. I plan on having a couple of 
 distributions of Linux on machines in my house. The biggest reason 
 (besides virus protection) is that some of the distributions 
 available, are compatible with computers going back to windows 3.1. In 
 addition, they all come with C compilers. So, I can resurrect old 
 computers to do other useful things like machine control, etc.
  
 Appropriate technologies make use of materials, technologies and 
 skills that are readily available in your community. Since a lot of 
 older computers have a scrap value of near zero, are abundantly 
 available and can be applied to a useful purpose, I think it can 
 arguably be called appropriate in that context for the region in 
 which I live. In fact, I think it serves a dual purpose as a measure 
 of conservation - keeping them out of land fills for as long as possible.
  
 Mike  

 */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:

 Hi Mike



 I personally think Open Source dovetails
 nicely with the let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to
 rule
 our lives thread that underpins many homebrewers.

 With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the
 homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a
 previous post to the list by Thor Skov:

 I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm
 just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a
 local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using
 accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation
 combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up
 the good work everyone, before the planet fries.

 We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the
 Biofuel list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software.
 It works very well!

 Best wishes

 Keith






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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
I've been studying Hinduism.  Fascinating.  Very humbling when you 
realize what a blip US history is in the greater scheme of the world's 
timeline.

Pannirselvam P.V wrote:

  Thank you Keith  bringing here  topics  unknown to many of our list

India and Pakistan have been always brothers as India  has been 
 always adopted to all the religion  first Arians , then budha , then 
 Muslim , then  Christanism  and lately all gloabised Evangelism  too 
 as  religion always considerd as the best way to live with  true 
 spirutalism ,out materialism , without consumadorism and free  way of 
 thinking

India  was misunderstood when   Bangladesh  become  free , but sure 
 the people of the India nad Pakistan have the same history  and wish  
 keep awy from any Nuclear weapons away.
  
I am sure  India will never go far  Nuclear war  as this will  be 
 against the  very million and million  peoples  way of thinking.

 Indian Parliment will never aprove to send money to kill any human 
 in other country , which it never has  done expect its defens  being 
 in the world as  this  is against  all the religion  of the country. 
 Thanks  the mass education after independence  which  has made India 
 as truely independet very big  democracy of the world.

 Pannirselvam P.V



 On 8/30/05, *Keith Addison* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam

 Did you read this?

 http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
 5-August/003230.html
 Or:
 http://snipurl.com/hb3u
 [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
 Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
 Speak for Jesus

 I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I posted
 that instead.

 By the way, here's Doug's post, Religion, Politics Biofuels, and
 Thanks!:

 http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
 5-August/003279.html
 Or:
 http://snipurl.com/hb3w

 I don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
 mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the other
 issues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsense
 about the US and Islam, the odious Clash of Civilisations type of
 thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of Christian
 Zionists in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects on
 politics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.

 On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
 brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer to
 each other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.
 Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in each
 other's heads?

 Best wishes

 Keith



 Hello Pannirselvam,
 
 Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've
 assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of the
 Catholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been
 years
 since I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practice
 hatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
 Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubled
 by several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).
 
 Here in the west, Darwin's theories, nature red in tooth and claw,
 were used as justification for Social Darwinism, which claimed that
 the poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving of
 opportunity, education, or fair treatment.  I see reincarnation, and
 the caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the
 lower
 castes are seen as failed souls, not enlightened enough to
 deserve a
 place in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought are
 rejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but
 that the
 bigotry and sexism continue.
 
 So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a tool
 of oppression, creating economic and social disparity without
 regard to
 the 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.
 
 Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much good
 work, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the
 use
 of condoms and other birth control methods.
 http://www.aegis.com/news/ads/2003/AD032597.html This has
 accelerated
 the spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many
 thousands of
 unnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schism
 between the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with the
 local priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom
 stance.
 http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051005G.shtml This is certainly a
 welcome change, but the Vatican 

Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Get the Jetta.

Mel Riser wrote:

 I just came home tonight and found 20 5 gallon jugs of WVO in my driveway.
  
 guess I'm gonna be heating some oil this weekend and getting some of 
 the filterable stuff out before i put it in the WVO truck.
  
 My wife really got the point when I told her that EACH 5 gallon jug 
 would run my truck for 100 miles and my car for 150 miles.
  
 I think she is finally seeing why I keep saying sell the minvan and 
 buy a TDI Jetta or a Jeep Liberty with the diesel option.
  
 mel

 -Original Message-
 *From:* Mel Riser
 *Sent:* Mon 8/29/2005 1:35 PM
 *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org; Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 *Cc:*
 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

 I'm gonna go down and fill up ALL my diesel vehicles with B100
 that day.

  

 mel



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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread Bob Clark


 Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
heater.  How long can you expect it to last?

Marty, and all

I am currently using six water heaters that have been in service for a little 
over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil burner since 
1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or burn out. I have 
several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of converting for one 
project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used to start with. One had 
a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained it, but I am lucky enough 
to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't too 
difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in to use 
as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired with a 
modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would be the 
ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I keep a closer 
eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.

In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including water 
heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three months) 
so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date and pickup 
all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for anything so 
can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of the heater 
tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years before I got 
ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine years (and still 
counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater tank 
should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to start 
with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a water 
heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage yard or dump. 
The days of 'freebies from those kind of places are over (at least everyplace 
I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get five dollars tops for the 
old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for ten bucks??? That would be a much 
smaller investment then a new water heater. However, if you have some 
experience with your project already and want to make sure you start with a 
good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I guess only you can make that 
choice, but based on my own personal uses, a used tank will give you a good 
deal of service and provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, I 
have built several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in some 
projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support walls of a 
digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old water 
heaters are still used regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two 
waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only 
used regularly about four months each year and then sporadically through the 
rest of the year. But on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and 
extreme heat conditions.

Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a lot 
more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and plans 
from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of people that 
have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' only started in 
1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.

Bob C.

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PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing 
companies are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names 
extra mile, speed petrol and premium petrol etc. the 
distributors are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing 
company websites are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing 
company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is 
suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it.

It sounds right up their alley. Strength to your arm.

Best wishes

Keith



Regards

Subramanian

Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello Subramanian

Not of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful -
factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.html
MTBE Fact Sheet

Best wishes

Keith


 Hello Members,
 
 MTBE – Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with
 gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly
 because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting
 human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US
 has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in
 certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.
 
 It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me
 what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate
 additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10
 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before
 raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.
 
 Regards,
 
 Subramanian


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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
I totally agree.  My only complaint w/ Linux is that after I install a 
Linux/Samba server, I never see the client again!  I have servers 
running over 600 days.
I make my living on (ick!) Windows machines.  They blow up all the time.

Keith Addison wrote:

Hi Mike

snip

  

I personally think Open Source dovetails
nicely with the let's move beyond allowing giant corporations to rule
our lives thread that underpins many homebrewers.



With a few exceptions perhaps, but I agree it's part of the 
homebrewers culture, or anti-culture or whatever. This is from a 
previous post to the list by Thor Skov:

I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is (I'm 
just an interested bystander). Closed-system fuel production, on a 
local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using 
accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation 
combined with open-source information exchange--it's AWESOME. Keep up 
the good work everyone, before the planet fries.

We had Open Source technology development in mind when we started the 
Biofuel list, but with Appropriate Technology rather than software. 
It works very well!

Best wishes

Keith

snip

 


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Re: [Biofuel] Government Regs

2005-08-30 Thread bob allen
Right now, Arkansas does not recognize biodiesel as a motor fuel and 
therefore it is not taxed, at least that is what I hear from the state 
energy office who contacted the appropriate folks in the department of 
finance and administration.

The best I can tell from discussions on this list was that small 
producers of biodiesel are exempt from federal taxes.

Peter Childers wrote:
 I am investigating the State of North Carolina tax regulations on 
 BioFuel production. I find out the tax rate is 27.1 cents per gallon and 
 I have to post a surety bond for $2000 for a license. That is required 
 for any type of Biodiesel production up to 500,000 gallons per year. I 
 am still investigating the Federal tax requirements. North Carolina has 
 even defined blending, mixing of regular diesel with WVO as a person who 
 needs to post this bond. So if you plan to drive up to the French fry 
 shack and dump some WVO in your tank you'll need a license with a $2000 
 bond and have to pay a tax. How is it in other States? Are all you 
 Biodieselers operating in the underground market?
 Peter 
 
 
 
 
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-- 
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http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] US Intelligent Design Campaign and natural disaster hits oil prices.

2005-08-30 Thread bob allen

no, no Mike, the real truth about origins can be found in the following:

http://www.venganza.org/

(you really need to follow the link for the graphs.)

  TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD

I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to 
decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be 
taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that 
it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can 
choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am 
concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of 
Intelligent Design.

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. 
I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the 
universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who 
created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the 
overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes 
is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request 
that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the 
other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not 
agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m 
sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory 
is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is 
claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also 
based on science, not on faith.

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a 
little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti 
Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see 
it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes 
explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear 
that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very 
secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by 
observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built 
the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For 
example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. 
He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron 
emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 
10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 
years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he 
makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the 
results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe 
in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He 
is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are 
taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they 
realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying 
Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs 
without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate 
regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and 
unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear 
this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is 
that He becomes angry if we don’t.

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, 
hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the 
shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have 
included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average 
global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a 
statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and 
global temperature.

In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and 
beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this 
theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers 
in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope 
dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all 
look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time 
in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; 
One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying 
Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on 
overwhelming observable evidence.




Mike Weaver wrote:
 Well, despite all the hoopla put forth by our religiously-minded 
 national leaders here in the US, I am have been shocked to find NO 
 support for my campaign to replace
 evolution with the oldest documented evidence of Intelligent Design.  
 Hinduism is easily 7000 years old, and clearly the most likely candidate 
 in terms of a continuing body of knowledge, and successful propagation.  
 NONE of the 

Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread TarynToo
Hi Keith, et alii.

On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

 Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam

 Did you read this?

 http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
 5-August/003230.html
 Or:
 http://snipurl.com/hb3u
 [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
 Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
 Speak for Jesus


Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now  
misplaced) led me to some striking information regarding the US's  
post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.  
Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and  
liberation theology, in Latin American politics.

Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites  
accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then  
to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing  
together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war  
Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist  
in name only by the 1940s.

So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre  
predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great  
resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and  
Pannirselvam. (and many others)

In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all  
together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with  
much funding from ARPA,  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ 
Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency which was created to respond  
to The Communist Threat. Now of course the internet is one of our  
best tools for responding to the Capitalist Threat.

Regarding the Clash of Civilisations, it's astonishing that  
Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel,  
have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of  
a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone  
perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' Skinny  
Legs and All.   
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553377884 I've re-read  
this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is  
illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff  
before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g.  
Still Life with Woodpecker or Jitterbug Perfume, since his work is  
rich and complex.

Again, thanks to all here who help us see past the veils, to a larger  
world.
Taryn
ornae.com

 I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I posted
 that instead.

 By the way, here's Doug's post, Religion, Politics Biofuels, and  
 Thanks!:

 http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
 5-August/003279.html
 Or:
 http://snipurl.com/hb3w

 I don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
 mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the other
 issues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsense
 about the US and Islam, the odious Clash of Civilisations type of
 thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of Christian
 Zionists in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects on
 politics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.

 On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
 brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer to
 each other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.
 Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in each
 other's heads?

 Best wishes

 Keith



 Hello Pannirselvam,

 Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've

 ...

 American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power in
 Latin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDS
 misinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we can
 be sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.

 I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media power
 being used to suppress democratic processes all over the world, but I
 suspect that the church often falls on the wrong side of this battle,
 they have usually supported the economic elite in class struggles,  
 even
 as their missionaries were striving to help the poor and dispossessed.

 I know you're 'on the ground' in Brazil, and you're seeing many
 courageous, dedicated christians doing good works, against great odds.
 I guess I'm trying to say that you're seeing those with 'true religion
 with ethics and also true democratic politics' actually doing what
 needs doing. Those who send them often have other goals.

 Taryn
 ornae.com


 On Aug 29, 2005, at 5:35 PM, Pannirselvam P.V wrote:

  Dear  Doug Swanson

   I appreciate  your   well   thoughtful  letter regarding  
 our
 list.But  I am not able to fully understand yet   that religion
 develop  illusion  as I  native of  India , presently in Brazil .
 Here religion  

Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

2005-08-30 Thread Joe Street




What about a tax based on holdings, land, assets, material wealth
basically rather than income which allows these loopholes. Those with
more pay more.

Joe

David M. Brockes wrote:

  This is why we need a "Flat Tax" system in this country for both Individual
and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
we have todayand most of us would probably pay less, but certainly
everyone would pay a "fair" share.and think of all the savings there
would be from all the "extra" costs currently related to our Tax system!!
Just IMHO!!
Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.


It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
(preferably not at all).

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada



On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Jerry Eyers wrote:

  
  

  Funny tidbit.  BP says they loose money on their gas stations, $100mil
  

last


  year.  You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you delivery it,
  

  
  and
  
  
you


  sell it.  How do you loose money when you control all aspects of it.
  

  
  Just
  
  
by


  vertues of econmies of scale you have to make money.
  

  
  
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Re: [Biofuel] US Intelligent Design Campaign and natural disaster hits oil prices.

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Bob, Bob, Bob.

You poor deluded fool.  I think everyone knows the world exists on a 
Great White Handkerchief, and will end when The Great Sneeze comes.
If you don't change your thinking, you, and all unbelievers, will be 
cast into everlasting snot. 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a false idol.  You have tricked by the forces 
of darkness into believing that there is free marinara for everyone, we will 
never run out of parmasean, and that the noodle goes on forever.  Not true.

I will pray for you.  More importantly, YOU can help spread the work by 
sending your contribution to Committee to Advance Spiritual 
Handkerchiefism, or to make is easier, just make it out to CASH and 
forward to me.

Bless you.

-Mike



bob allen wrote:

no, no Mike, the real truth about origins can be found in the following:

http://www.venganza.org/

(you really need to follow the link for the graphs.)

  TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD

I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to 
decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be 
taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that 
it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can 
choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am 
concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of 
Intelligent Design.

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. 
I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the 
universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who 
created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the 
overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes 
is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request 
that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the 
other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not 
agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m 
sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory 
is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is 
claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also 
based on science, not on faith.

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a 
little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti 
Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see 
it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes 
explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear 
that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very 
secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by 
observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built 
the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For 
example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. 
He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron 
emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 
10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 
years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he 
makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the 
results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe 
in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He 
is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are 
taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they 
realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying 
Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs 
without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate 
regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and 
unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear 
this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is 
that He becomes angry if we don’t.

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, 
hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the 
shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have 
included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average 
global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a 
statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and 
global temperature.

In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and 
beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this 
theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers 
in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope 
dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all 
look 

Re: [Biofuel] Cohabitation

2005-08-30 Thread Michael Redler
What!? I have kids!!?

I think Doug's got the wrong Mike on that quote (as Mike Weaver already noticed).

:-)

Mike
Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nah, the kids have their own room.Douglas Smith wrote:Michael Redler wrote:"Uh oh. I'm cohabitating illegally. Wait'll I tell my GF. "You know, Michael, I don't have anything against you and your girlfriend doing whatever you like in private - or any other straight couple - but must you flaunt it in front of the rest of us? The children might see and then we'd have to explain!(NOTE: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)Doug"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."- economist John Kenneth Galbraith___Biofuel mailing
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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
5-15 years, then they start leaking.

Bob Clark wrote:

 Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
heater.  How long can you expect it to last?

Marty, and all

I am currently using six water heaters that have been in service for a 
little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil burner 
since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or burn out. I 
have several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of converting for 
one project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used to start with. 
One had a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained it, but I am lucky 
enough to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't 
too difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in 
to use as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired 
with a modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would be 
the ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I keep a 
closer eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.

In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including water 
heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three months) 
so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date and pickup 
all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for anything so 
can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of the heater 
tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years before I got 
ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine years (and 
still counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater 
tank should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to 
start with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a 
water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage yard or 
dump. The days of 'freebies from those kind of places are over (at least 
everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get five dollars 
tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for ten bucks??? That 
would be a much smaller investment then a new water heater. However, if you 
have some experience with your project already and want to make sure you start 
with a good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I guess only you can make 
that choice, but based on my own personal uses, a used tank will give you a 
good deal of service and provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, 
I have built several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in 
some projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support walls 
of a digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old 
water heaters are still used regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two 
waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only 
used regularly about four months each year and then sporadically through the 
rest of the year. But on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and 
extreme heat conditions.

Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a 
lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and 
plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of 
people that have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' 
only started in 1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.

Bob C.

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Re: [Biofuel] Cohabitation

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
I am the one and true Mike.  This other fellow is clearly an imposter.  
Do not follow false Mikes.  I personally will lead you into temptation.  
I am running for president.  My slogan is:

Mike Weaver for president: A troubled man for troubled times.

Michael Redler wrote:

 What!? I have kids!!?
  
 I think Doug's got the wrong Mike on that quote (as Mike Weaver 
 already noticed).
  
 :-)
  
 Mike

 */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:

 Nah, the kids have their own room.

 Douglas Smith wrote:

 Michael Redler wrote:
 
 Uh oh. I'm cohabitating illegally. Wait'll I tell my GF. 
 
 You know, Michael, I don't have anything against you and your
 girlfriend doing whatever you like in private - or any other
 straight
 couple - but must you flaunt it in front of the rest of us? The
 children might see and then we'd have to explain!
 
 (NOTE: Tongue planted firmly in cheek)
 
 Doug
 
 
 The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest
 exercises in
 moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
 justification for selfishness.
 - economist John Kenneth Galbraith
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu 2.64banger?

2005-08-30 Thread Jan Warnqvist
Hello Mike.
You could run your gasoline vehicle on 15% methanol, BUT the methanol is
quite aggressive and may cause corrosion in your fuel system quite rapidly.
If your car is equipped with a carburettor, you should adjust the CO exhaust
value, when running on methanol/gasoline, according to the stated min value
by the manufacturer in order to avoid that the fuel/air mixture becomes too
lean. If that is not possible, do not use the methanol for fuel.
You will notice a clear increase in fuel consumption.
Methanol has a clear tendency of forming acid compounds during engine
warm-up. These compounds will attack the lubricating oil layers in your
engine. You may expect twice the wear compared to running on pure gasoline
(or even ethanol for that matter). Please let me know how you intend to
proceed.
Good luck !
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:02 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu
2.64banger?




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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread Joe Street




I remember hearing something about toxic fuel additives here in Canada
years ago. The story was basically that an additive was known to be
harmful and present in exhaust emissions (or some harmful byproduct of
combustion of the additive) and it was still being used and the
manufacturer was aware of it but declined to comment. The company was
Ethyl corporation. I just checked their website(
http://www.ethyl.com/Operations/index.htm ) but they don't say anything
much other than listing gasoline performance additives as a product.
Is it MTBE? does anyone know?

Joe

subramanian D.V wrote:

  Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing
companies are introducingslightly costlier petrol with brand names
"extra mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors
are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites
are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge
qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must
know the hazards associated with it. 
  
  Regards
  
  Subramanian
  
  Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hello
Subramanian

Not of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful - 
factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.html
MTBE Fact Sheet

Best wishes

Keith


Hello Members,

MTBE  Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with

gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly 
because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting

human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US

has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in 
certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.

It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me 
what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate 
additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 
tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before 
raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.

Regards,

Subramanian


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   Start
your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu 2.64banger?

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Yikes.

After that I plan to run in the opposite direction.  I have and 88 gas 
Trooper I use to haul WVO and crap.  It's EFI.

Thanks for the info!

Jan Warnqvist wrote:

Hello Mike.
You could run your gasoline vehicle on 15% methanol, BUT the methanol is
quite aggressive and may cause corrosion in your fuel system quite rapidly.
If your car is equipped with a carburettor, you should adjust the CO exhaust
value, when running on methanol/gasoline, according to the stated min value
by the manufacturer in order to avoid that the fuel/air mixture becomes too
lean. If that is not possible, do not use the methanol for fuel.
You will notice a clear increase in fuel consumption.
Methanol has a clear tendency of forming acid compounds during engine
warm-up. These compounds will attack the lubricating oil layers in your
engine. You may expect twice the wear compared to running on pure gasoline
(or even ethanol for that matter). Please let me know how you intend to
proceed.
Good luck !
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:02 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know if I can run 15% ethanol in an Isuzu
2.64banger?


  

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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Sorry, that's false.  It should have read:  A water heater will not leak 
unless you are on vacation.

Mike Weaver wrote:

5-15 years, then they start leaking.

Bob Clark wrote:

  

Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
heater.  How long can you expect it to last?

Marty, and all

I am currently using six water heaters that have been in service for a 
little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil 
burner since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or 
burn out. I have several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of 
converting for one project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used 
to start with. One had a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained 
it, but I am lucky enough to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so 
repairing that wasn't too difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left 
the heating elements in to use as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' 
experiments and are fired with a modified propane burner, now running on 
methane gas. Those two would be the ones that I suspect will burn out first 
(the bottom area) so I keep a closer eye on them, but so far no sign of 
trouble.

In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including 
water heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three 
months) so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date 
and pickup all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for 
anything so can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of 
the heater tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years 
before I got ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine 
years (and still counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new 
water heater tank should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a 
quality one to start with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 
'project' using a water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a 
local salvage yard or dump. The days of 'freebies from those kind of places 
are over (at least everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to 
get five dollars tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for 
ten bucks??? That would be a much smaller investment then a new water heater. 
However, if you have some experience with your project already and want to 
make sure you start with a good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I 
guess only you can make that choice, but based on my own personal uses, a 
used tank will give you a good deal of service and provides a very 
inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, I have built several other cookers and 
stills since those first ones and in some projects I have use one inch steel 
plate (for fireboxes and support walls of a digester) and a couple of heavy 
gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old water heaters are still used 
regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two waste-oil burners I built 
(one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only used regularly about 
four months each year and then sporadically through the rest of the year. But 
on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and extreme heat conditions.

Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a 
lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and 
plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of 
people that have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' 
only started in 1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.

Bob C.

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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Greg and April
Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed.

Greg H.


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft


 You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.
 


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Re: [Biofuel] Oil questions

2005-08-30 Thread Bob Clark
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/marketquotes/HU.html

I don't know where John got his price but this is a link where you can check 
the daily price of canola oil (and a lot of other oils and grains as well). You 
can also keep up with the fossil prices if you want an idea of where the rest 
of the world is going from month to month?

Bob C.

-Original Message-
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Aug 30, 2005 7:56 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Oil questions

Where did you find that price?

I've made Biodiesel from canola successfully.

John Wilson wrote:

 Hi
 Has anyone tried canola oil in their oil pan as a substitute for 
 fossil oil. If so what were the results.
 :http://www.rense.com/ufo/motoroil.htm
 How many liters in a tonne of canola oil.  spot price for Canola oil 
 is $268.00 per tonne. How much is that per liter. I am taking a rough 
 guess that a liter of canola oil weights .98 kgs roughly 26 cents per 
 liter.
  
 Yours truly
 John Wilson

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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
No.  Then it wouldn't be a secret, would it?  Bwahaha

Try http://www.freesco.org/
or leaf.sourceforge.net
or http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/

I've done it with a 486/66 w/ 32 MB and 2 3c507 cards.  Plenty fast.

Also look up DSL linux.

Good luck!

Greg and April wrote:

Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed.

Greg H.


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft


  

You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.





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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread TarynToo

On Aug 30, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:

 I totally agree.  My only complaint w/ Linux is that after I install a
 Linux/Samba server, I never see the client again!  I have servers
 running over 600 days.
 I make my living on (ick!) Windows machines.  They blow up all the 
 time.

ROFL Mike! I've been watching the linux/win debate shaping up here on 
the list and trying to stay out of it. After all how many religious 
wars can one woman get into at the same time?  I use Linux or BSD on 
servers, and MacOS X on workstations. I think for non-nerds, MacOS X is 
much more approachable than Windows, Linux, or a naked BSD machine.  
Apple has open-sourced most of MacOS X as Darwin, keeping only the GUI 
and some apps and drivers proprietary 
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/  http://www.opendarwin.org/

I too find myself constantly patching up blasted WinPCs. Personally I 
won't use the crap from Redmond, not even Word and Office. (And don't 
even get me started on PowerPointless!) Invariably it's the same 
question and the same answer: How can I keep my computer from catching 
virii?  Get a Mac.

 From http://ornae.com/30/torturing-your-customers-a-business-model  
(If you want references, see the original article, it's full of  
links.)

Torturing your customers, A Business Model

The recording industry has invested a great deal of time and money in a 
variety of schemes purporting to protect the rights of musicians. Of 
course they haven’t even slowed down either casual or professional 
pirates.

Mostly, all they’ve done is annoy their customer base by making CDs 
that don’t play right. I’m not writing today to blast BMG, Sony, and 
the RIAA, they’re getting plenty of heat already. But I want to draw a 
parallel between the way the recording industry and Microsoft treat 
their customers.

I just spent a few days rebuilding some WinXP machines for my neighbors 
that had succumbed to hardware failures and/or Windows malware , In 
each instance, the neighbor asked, ‘Why do these machines fail so 
quickly? Why is it so tedious to fix them?’ The first question deserves 
a few thousand words, but there have been millions written already and 
flame wars are tedious too.

The most direct answer to the second question is, “Microsoft 
intentionally makes it damn near impossible for users to create 
bootable backups, or even useful offline backups.” Their licensing and 
copy protection schemes include components that prevent disk cloning, 
and prevent disk images from booting if they were created by cloning, 
that force relicensing when a computer has parts replaced. This of 
course doesn’t slow down teenage script kiddies and professional OS 
counterfeiters in the least, but it does make life miserable for every 
legitimate windows user on the planet.

In an ideal world, you would use simple commands or GUI tools to create 
a mirror image of your installed and customized system on separate 
partitions or disks. Other simple tools would allow you choose which 
image your system booted from. When that image booted, it would work 
right whether it was drive C:, D: or Z:, That image would boot 
correctly, even if it was hooked up to a significantly different 
computer.

This is not an imaginary ideal, it is the world of Linux, of BSD UNIX, 
of MacOS. Only Windows OSes fall on their swords, on purpose, when 
users do perfectly reasonable things like pull a backup drive out of 
the safe and try to boot it on a new computer.

Why is this a reasonable thing? Well the payroll computer caught fire 
yesterday, and we need to make payroll today. But Microsoft doesn’t see 
it that way, they think their customers are all thieves and are trying 
to steal WinXP. Yeah, like we really care!

So, there’s the parallel. The recording industry exhibits complete 
disdain for their customers, (And their suppliers, most musicians are 
treated like dogs by recording companies.) Microsoft subscribes to the 
same business model, drumming up business by trotting out the next big 
thing, which is usually entirely derivative, gouging huge profits, 
while treating the buyers like cattle at best, and thieves at worst.

Bad enough we paid money for this stuff, how much of our precious time 
must we spend trying to restore a machine taken to its knees by the 
virus of the day.

I’m sure many of you are going to trot out Ghost, or Partition Magic, 
or the latest Whiz-bang Norton tool, or BackupOmatic II, as your 
personal favorite fix for this problem. Just like you, I’ve come up 
with ways to defeat the intent of Microsoft, so I could get some work 
done.

But the fact still stands: They did this on purpose, and all it really 
does is torture their customers.

Taryn
ornae.com

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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread Darryl McMahon
I think it was MMT.

MMT is a manganese-based compound that is added to gasoline to enhance octane 
and 
reduce engine knocking. Canadian legislators are concerned that the manganese 
in 
MMT emissions poses a significant public health risk. In addition, automobile 
manufacturers have long argued that MMT damages emissions diagnostics and 
control 
equipment in cars, thus increasing fuel emissions in general. Ethyl is the 
product’s only manufacturer.1

http://www.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/mtbe.htm

Darryl McMahon

Date sent:  Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:35:51 -0400
From:   Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE
Send reply to:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I remember hearing something about toxic fuel additives here in Canada 
 years ago.  The story was basically that an additive was known to be 
 harmful and present in exhaust emissions (or some harmful byproduct of 
 combustion of the additive) and it was still being used and the 
 manufacturer was aware of it but declined to comment.  The company was 
 Ethyl corporation.  I just checked their website( 
 http://www.ethyl.com/Operations/index.htm ) but they don't say anything 
 much other than listing gasoline performance additives as a product.  Is 
 it MTBE?  does anyone know?
 
 Joe
 
 subramanian D.V wrote:
 
  Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies 
  are introducing slightly costlier petrol with brand names extra 
  mile, speed petrol and premium petrol etc. the distributors are 
  unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites are 
  equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty 
  of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must know 
  the hazards associated with it.
   
  Regards
   
  Subramanian
 
  */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
 
  Hello Subramanian
 
  Not of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful -
  factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:
 
  http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.html
  MTBE Fact Sheet
 
  Best wishes
 
  Keith
 
 
  Hello Members,
  
  MTBE - Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with
  gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly
  because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting
  human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US
  has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in
  certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.
  
  It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me
  what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate
  additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10
  tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before
  raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.
  
  Regards,
  
  Subramanian
 
 
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It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



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Re: [Biofuel] US Intelligent Design Campaign and natural disaster hits oil prices.

2005-08-30 Thread TarynToo
Thank you Bob, this is too funny,

Also have a look at these disclaimer stickers.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpurrin1/textbookdisclaimers/

Taryn
ornae.com


On Aug 30, 2005, at 8:32 AM, bob allen wrote:


 no, no Mike, the real truth about origins can be found in the 
 following:

 http://www.venganza.org/

 (you really need to follow the link for the graphs.)

   TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD

 I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to
 decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be
 taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree 
 that
 it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can
 choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I 
 am
 concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of
 Intelligent Design.

 Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design.
 I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the
 universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who
 created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the
 overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary 
 processes
 is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
 ...


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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
I spent 5 years trying to move my clients to Linux for their servers.  
Mostly I succeded.  I haven't had much luck with
Linux on the desktop, and have pretty much given up the figt, which is 
funny because it's about where it needs to be!
I think OSX is the best thing going and use it for my graphics stuff.  
Unfortunately I make my living fixing Windows.
It used to upset me but not I just bill them and move on.

Oh well.  No good deed goes unpunished!

TarynToo wrote:

On Aug 30, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:

  

I totally agree.  My only complaint w/ Linux is that after I install a
Linux/Samba server, I never see the client again!  I have servers
running over 600 days.
I make my living on (ick!) Windows machines.  They blow up all the 
time.



ROFL Mike! I've been watching the linux/win debate shaping up here on 
the list and trying to stay out of it. After all how many religious 
wars can one woman get into at the same time?  I use Linux or BSD on 
servers, and MacOS X on workstations. I think for non-nerds, MacOS X is 
much more approachable than Windows, Linux, or a naked BSD machine.  
Apple has open-sourced most of MacOS X as Darwin, keeping only the GUI 
and some apps and drivers proprietary 
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/  http://www.opendarwin.org/

I too find myself constantly patching up blasted WinPCs. Personally I 
won't use the crap from Redmond, not even Word and Office. (And don't 
even get me started on PowerPointless!) Invariably it's the same 
question and the same answer: How can I keep my computer from catching 
virii?  Get a Mac.

 From http://ornae.com/30/torturing-your-customers-a-business-model  
(If you want references, see the original article, it's full of  
links.)

Torturing your customers, A Business Model
   
The recording industry has invested a great deal of time and money in a 
variety of schemes purporting to protect the rights of musicians. Of 
course they haven’t even slowed down either casual or professional 
pirates.

Mostly, all they’ve done is annoy their customer base by making CDs 
that don’t play right. I’m not writing today to blast BMG, Sony, and 
the RIAA, they’re getting plenty of heat already. But I want to draw a 
parallel between the way the recording industry and Microsoft treat 
their customers.

I just spent a few days rebuilding some WinXP machines for my neighbors 
that had succumbed to hardware failures and/or Windows malware , In 
each instance, the neighbor asked, ‘Why do these machines fail so 
quickly? Why is it so tedious to fix them?’ The first question deserves 
a few thousand words, but there have been millions written already and 
flame wars are tedious too.

The most direct answer to the second question is, “Microsoft 
intentionally makes it damn near impossible for users to create 
bootable backups, or even useful offline backups.” Their licensing and 
copy protection schemes include components that prevent disk cloning, 
and prevent disk images from booting if they were created by cloning, 
that force relicensing when a computer has parts replaced. This of 
course doesn’t slow down teenage script kiddies and professional OS 
counterfeiters in the least, but it does make life miserable for every 
legitimate windows user on the planet.

In an ideal world, you would use simple commands or GUI tools to create 
a mirror image of your installed and customized system on separate 
partitions or disks. Other simple tools would allow you choose which 
image your system booted from. When that image booted, it would work 
right whether it was drive C:, D: or Z:, That image would boot 
correctly, even if it was hooked up to a significantly different 
computer.

This is not an imaginary ideal, it is the world of Linux, of BSD UNIX, 
of MacOS. Only Windows OSes fall on their swords, on purpose, when 
users do perfectly reasonable things like pull a backup drive out of 
the safe and try to boot it on a new computer.

Why is this a reasonable thing? Well the payroll computer caught fire 
yesterday, and we need to make payroll today. But Microsoft doesn’t see 
it that way, they think their customers are all thieves and are trying 
to steal WinXP. Yeah, like we really care!

So, there’s the parallel. The recording industry exhibits complete 
disdain for their customers, (And their suppliers, most musicians are 
treated like dogs by recording companies.) Microsoft subscribes to the 
same business model, drumming up business by trotting out the next big 
thing, which is usually entirely derivative, gouging huge profits, 
while treating the buyers like cattle at best, and thieves at worst.

Bad enough we paid money for this stuff, how much of our precious time 
must we spend trying to restore a machine taken to its knees by the 
virus of the day.

I’m sure many of you are going to trot out Ghost, or Partition Magic, 
or the latest Whiz-bang Norton tool, or BackupOmatic II, as your 
personal favorite fix for this problem. Just like you, 

Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread capt3d
no doubt under the pretext of liberating the canadian people from the 
injustice of a universal health care system.

-chris b.

In a message dated 8/24/05 7:46:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Suppose Canada decides that it will demand (which is 
our right) what it wants for that oil?. . .How little will it take before 
american troops 
show up to 'restore order' in our sovereign lands. 


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[Biofuel] How much?

2005-08-30 Thread Marty Phee
How much is a bbl of say soy oil or palm oil.  I'm not sure where to 
look online.  bbls of this oil are 55gals right?  Not the 42gals of 
crude oil.

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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread bob allen
Pieter, I agree with Kieth, it probably is not the anti-foaming agent 
which is there in parts per million conc(?).  Have you titrated the 
stuff? Maybe a very high free fatty acid content?  Or maybe it is all 
saturated fat?  Another possibility is that something is extracted into 
the cooking oil in significant quantities, which solidifies when it is 
diluted with more oil?


Pieter Koole wrote:
 Thanks Keith,
 If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ?
 I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I mix
 any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With hard I mean
 as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly.
 Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will
 have to deal with this more and more in the future.
 Thanks again.
 
 
Dag Pieter


Hello all,
I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
oil, well, that is what I thought.
In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is
dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake
their chips.

From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to

make BD from it.
Can anyone please help me ?
Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900
is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the
future.
E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n

It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first
came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming
agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe
they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your
biodiesel.

Best wishes

Keith



Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole
Netherlands


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 messages):
 
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-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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[Biofuel] Oil Question

2005-08-30 Thread John Wilson
Hi Mike,
  I got the price
from:http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=commoditiesnopu=uCCKBtzSc1ihTGQhlEp7%2F
WRKB3rpHYZsUyZ%2BHa3JDSl3LP8JS69FS5tYIU7PHr%2FQ
I see this morning Jan Canola futures are trading at 294.  I think that was
a mistake on my part it said Canola(WCE) and not Canola oil. I think the
price is for pre pressed canola seed and not canola oil.
Yours truly
John Wilson
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
Goldens
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
 Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm

In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
^
Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)


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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

2005-08-30 Thread bob allen
Howdy David,

a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the 
impoverished with taxes they didn't have before.  The flat tax also will 
not address the flight of corporations to tax havens.

flat tax- bad idea.

David M. Brockes wrote:
 This is why we need a Flat Tax system in this country for both Individual
 and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
 we have todayand most of us would probably pay less,

if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more.  A 12% tax rate would 
mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for 
the rich persons reduction.


  but certainly
 everyone would pay a fair share.and think of all the savings there
 would be from all the extra costs currently related to our Tax system!!
 Just IMHO!!
 Dave
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
 
 
 It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
 the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
 (preferably not at all).
 
cut


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread Marty Phee
Thanks for the info.  My friend and I are going to do this.  I'd like to 
start with a proven design and go from there and he has grand plans of 
how to do everything.  I really don't have room to do it and he does so 
I need to give him leeway in the design.


Bob Clark wrote:

 Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Will a water heater ware out/rust out?  Say if you start from a new 
heater.  How long can you expect it to last?

Marty, and all

I am currently using six water heaters that have been in service for a 
little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil burner 
since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through and/or burn out. I 
have several more used water heaters that I am in the midst of converting for 
one project or another. ALL of the ones I am using were used to start with. 
One had a small leak in the seam when I originally obtained it, but I am lucky 
enough to have a complete steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't 
too difficult. I have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in 
to use as pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired 
with a modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would be 
the ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I keep a 
closer eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.

In our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including water 
heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every three months) 
so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the collection date and pickup 
all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have never used a new one for anything so 
can only guess about that, but my thought would be this: each of the heater 
tanks I am using now had been used for water heating for years before I got 
ahold of them. I KNOW they have lasted from five years to nine years (and 
still counting) so I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater 
tank should easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to 
start with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a 
water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage yard or 
dump. The days of 'freebies from those kind of places are over (at least 
everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get five dollars 
tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for ten bucks??? That 
would be a much smaller investment then a new water heater. However, if you 
have some experience with your project already and want to make sure you start 
with a good tank, maybe new would be the way to go? I guess only you can make 
that choice, but based on my own personal uses, a used tank will give you a 
good deal of service and provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, 
I have built several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in 
some projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support walls 
of a digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks, but the old 
water heaters are still used regularly and are going fine. To be fair, the two 
waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and one eighty gallons) are only 
used regularly about four months each year and then sporadically through the 
rest of the year. But on the other hand, they also take the most abuse and 
extreme heat conditions.

Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a 
lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas and 
plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a lot of 
people that have been doing this  much longer then I have. My 'experience' 
only started in 1996. GOOD LUCK and happy fueling.

Bob C.
  




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[Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Tom Irwin




Hi All,

If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change. 

Tom Irwin


From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas dayFWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog of orders.Keith Addison wrote:Hi DarrylVery nice! I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point is,don't act for a day, act for a lifetime. I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey to Forever for it, might help.It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work out that way I don't mind.Best wishesKeith Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their gasoline stations upfor sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the returns for theirshareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump them. I won'tbe holding my breath.As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever reason,here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local FreeCycle, or bikerepair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and practical foryour use. Then use it.3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if necessary. Slightoverinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation. Repeatmonthly or more frequently if required.4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. Check owner'smanual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control system problems,etc while you are at it.5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your vehicle. There aremany flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE dual-fuel incentive,where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable. Check yourvehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate (or make yourown, of course).8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra weight uses moreenergy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. (e.g. sand and saltmixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / energy wise labels.10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something that is as fuel-efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not necessarily all ofyour needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.11) If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company to boycott orsupport. Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are local and havebeen promoting ethanol blend here since before it was fashionable. I boycottExxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record (and otherundesirable practices). Trust me, if we actually managed to drop Exxon's grossrevenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would definitely get theirattention. Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet day won't.12) Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion. You get 0 mpg whenidling in stopped traffic.I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point is,don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.Darryl McMahon"mphee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Station owners really don't make much money off of gas. Their  lucky to make a nickel a gallon. They make their money on what's called C-Store sales.If more people could take public transportation it would help greatly.Funny tidbit. BP says they loose money on their gas stations, $100mil lastyear. You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you  delivery it, and you sell it. How do you loose money when you control all aspects of  it. Just by vertues of econmies of scale you have to make money.On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:46:25 GMT, marilyn wrote effort to take public transportation for a whole month.Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:"This is mostly an incorrect rumor.http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/nogas.asp - It'd betterserve everyone to forward accurate information aboutalternatives to petroleum."Thanks for the reply, and especially for the Snopes site. I hadn'theard if it. I will check it from now on.I was concerned about the cost to the station owners, 

Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Marty Phee
http://linuxrouter.org/

Greg and April wrote:

Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed.

Greg H.


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft


  

You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486.





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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread capt3d
actually, from a strategic military standpoint, this is an extremely wise 
practice.  in any high attrition conflict (read:  protracted a/o bloody war), 
the 
human resources are depleted well before the hardware.  trained pilots are 
about the most difficult personnel to replace and their loss represents a loss 
in capability many timers greater than does the loss of other service personnel.

-chris b.


In a message dated 8/24/05 2:50:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I admit I don't know the exact number of aircraft in readiness status, 
who does?. . .but I do know that Canadian pilots take a tour flying a desk 
simply
because there aren't enough planes to go around. 


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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread Joe Street
LOL true we need someone to save us from a certain slow agonizing death 
in a hospital waiting room.
A student of this university died recently after turning away from a 
huge waiting line with a case of viral meningitis. This is outrageous 
especially in a country where we pay so much tax.  So much of that money 
is being wasted rather than making it to the areas that really need it 
like a reform of our healthcare system.

Ahhh don't get me goin

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

no doubt under the pretext of liberating the canadian people from the 
injustice of a universal health care system.

-chris b.

In a message dated 8/24/05 7:46:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Suppose Canada decides that it will demand (which is 
our right) what it wants for that oil?. . .How little will it take before 
american troops 
show up to 'restore order' in our sovereign lands. 


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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread Joe Street
Except the loss of a pilot is most likely accompanied by the loss of an 
aircraft so when they are all gone what good does it do to have a bunch 
of trained pilots standing around with nothing to fly??

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

actually, from a strategic military standpoint, this is an extremely wise 
practice.  in any high attrition conflict (read:  protracted a/o bloody war), 
the 
human resources are depleted well before the hardware.  trained pilots are 
about the most difficult personnel to replace and their loss represents a loss 
in capability many timers greater than does the loss of other service 
personnel.

-chris b.


In a message dated 8/24/05 2:50:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I admit I don't know the exact number of aircraft in readiness status, 
who does?. . .but I do know that Canadian pilots take a tour flying a desk 
simply
because there aren't enough planes to go around. 


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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Don't laugh.  Anything could happen under this regime.  I personally 
will never ever take up arms against Canada but be don't surprised
if you start to see Canada (surely our greatest friend in the world) 
demonized in the next 10 years as a pretext to invasion.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

no doubt under the pretext of liberating the canadian people from the 
injustice of a universal health care system.

-chris b.

In a message dated 8/24/05 7:46:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Suppose Canada decides that it will demand (which is 
our right) what it wants for that oil?. . .How little will it take before 
american troops 
show up to 'restore order' in our sovereign lands. 


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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Besides, we already have a Flat Head Tax in most states.  It's called 
the lottery.  It's a tax on stupid people, and it falls unfairly on 
those least able to afford it.

bob allen wrote:

Howdy David,

a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the 
impoverished with taxes they didn't have before.  The flat tax also will 
not address the flight of corporations to tax havens.

flat tax- bad idea.

David M. Brockes wrote:
  

This is why we need a Flat Tax system in this country for both Individual
and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
we have todayand most of us would probably pay less,



if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more.  A 12% tax rate would 
mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for 
the rich persons reduction.


  but certainly
  

everyone would pay a fair share.and think of all the savings there
would be from all the extra costs currently related to our Tax system!!
Just IMHO!!
Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.


It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
(preferably not at all).



cut


  



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Re: [Biofuel] Oil Question

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver

Anyone know where I could buy 300 gallons of canola?


John Wilson wrote:

Hi Mike,
  I got the price
from:http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=commoditiesnopu=uCCKBtzSc1ihTGQhlEp7%2F
WRKB3rpHYZsUyZ%2BHa3JDSl3LP8JS69FS5tYIU7PHr%2FQ
I see this morning Jan Canola futures are trading at 294.  I think that was
a mistake on my part it said Canola(WCE) and not Canola oil. I think the
price is for pre pressed canola seed and not canola oil.
Yours truly
John Wilson
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
Goldens
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
 Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm

In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
^
Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)


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Re: [Biofuel] How much?

2005-08-30 Thread Appal Energy
Marty,

Commodities such as vegetable oils and animal phats are sold by the 
pound weight. Search the Chicago Board of Trade for pricing and then 
convert to gallons using the multiplier of ~7.6#s per gallon.

Todd Swearingen

Marty Phee wrote:

How much is a bbl of say soy oil or palm oil.  I'm not sure where to 
look online.  bbls of this oil are 55gals right?  Not the 42gals of 
crude oil.

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Mel Riser









You need both



Wind and solar.



Chances are when it is windy the clouds
maybe covering the nuclear reactor.



When its sunny no wind.



You need BOTH



Mel



Who has had a little experience with an
AWP turbine.



But my next one is a bergey
10kw



Ohh.



-Original Message-
From: Tom Irwin
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005
10:36 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Solar panals or
wind





Hi All,











If climate change occurs from
global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better.
My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will
have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the
atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can
be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change. 











Tom Irwin













From: Mike
Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33
-0300
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1
declared no buy gas day

FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog
of 
orders.

Keith Addison wrote:

Hi Darryl

Very nice!

 

I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My
point is,
don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
 


I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.

If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey 
to Forever for it, might help.

It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work 
out that way I don't mind.

Best wishes

Keith



 

Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
gasoline stations up
for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
returns for their
shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
them. I won't
be holding my breath.

As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.

If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever
reason,
here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.

1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.

2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local 
FreeCycle, or bike
repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and 
practical for
your use. Then use it.

3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if 
necessary. Slight
overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation.
Repeat
monthly or more frequently if required.

4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. 
Check owner's
manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control 
system problems,
etc while you are at it.

5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).

6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.

7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your 
vehicle. There are
many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE 
dual-fuel incentive,
where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable.
Check your
vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate 
(or make your
own, of course).

8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra 
weight uses more
energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. 
(e.g. sand and salt
mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).

9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / 
energy wise labels.

10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something 
that is as fuel-
efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not 
necessarily all of
your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.

11) If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company 
to boycott or
support. Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are 
local and have
been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was fashionable. I
boycott
Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record 
(and other
undesirable practices). Trust me, if we actually managed to drop 
Exxon's gross
revenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would 
definitely get their
attention. Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet day
won't.

12) Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion. You get 0 mpg
when
idling in stopped traffic.

I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My
point is,
don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.

Darryl McMahon



mphee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

 

Station owners really don't make much money off of gas. Their 
 

lucky to make a
 

nickel a gallon. They make their money on what's called C-Store
sales.

If more people could take public transportation it would help
greatly.


Funny tidbit. BP says they loose money on their gas stations,
$100mil last
year. You refine it, you transport it, you store it, you 
 


Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Michael Redler


Tom,

In my opinion,one shouldn't be choosingand committing to a particular form of alternative/sustainable energywhen trying to live sustainably on your own power. Our homesneed to be seen as hybrids and should be constantly diversifying and prioritizing based on your needs, resources and abilities.

When your thoughts "go toward wind", it leads me to believe that you are prepared to do both but, need to prioritize. So,the top paragraph is probably nothing new to you and I apologize if I sound like I'm lecturing. I still wanted to reiterate my point since(IMO) it speaks toan important issue in US culture about complacency and how oil has promoted a philosophy of solving"the problem" with "the answer".

...my $.02

MikeTom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi All,

If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change. 

Tom Irwin___
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Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE

2005-08-30 Thread Fred Enga



No, 
That would be MMT, a manganese based octane improver used instead of lead. 
It has less harmful effects than lead, but is still bad.

Cheers

Fred 
Enga

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Joe 
  StreetSent: August 30, 2005 6:36 AMTo: 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on 
  MTBEI remember hearing something about toxic fuel 
  additives here in Canada years ago. The story was basically that an 
  additive was known to be harmful and present in exhaust emissions (or some 
  harmful byproduct of combustion of the additive) and it was still being used 
  and the manufacturer was aware of it but declined to comment. The 
  company was Ethyl corporation. I just checked their website( http://www.ethyl.com/Operations/index.htm 
  ) but they don't say anything much other than listing gasoline performance 
  additives as a product. Is it MTBE? does anyone 
  know?Joesubramanian D.V wrote:
  
Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies 
are introducingslightly costlier petrol with brand names "extra mile", 
"speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors are unable to say 
what is the additive. The marketing company websites are equally vague. And 
now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added 
petrol is suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it. 


Regards

SubramanianKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Hello 
  SubramanianNot of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be 
  useful - factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate 
  additive:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.htmlMTBE 
  Fact SheetBest wishesKeithHello 
  Members,MTBE  Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate 
  for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad 
  reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the 
  environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the 
  groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to 
  varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing 
  with gasoline.It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. 
  Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE 
  other than as an oxygenate additive when a reputed oil refining 
  and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I 
  want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian 
  Press.Thank 
  you.Regards,Subramanian___Biofuel 
  mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch 
  the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
  messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


Start 
your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Garth Kim Travis


Greetings,
I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that can
also be fired with methane. Small solar panels for stuff that is
used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home
repaired. And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run
off the pto of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.
Lots of overlap and back up. If one part of the system
malfunctions, the meat in the freezer does not thaw. I have yet to
figure out how to put a 1/4 of a cow in there at a time.grin
Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 10:52 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
content-class:
urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary=_=_NextPart_001_01C5AD7A.C1E61968
You need both

Wind and solar.

Chances are when it is windy the clouds maybe covering the nuclear
reactor.

When it’s sunny no wind.

You need BOTH

Mel

Who has had a little experience with an AWP turbine.

But my next one is a bergey 10kw

Ohh….

-Original Message-
From: Tom Irwin
[
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:36 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

Hi All,

If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more
sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the
temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from
all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising
ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in
some areas and should only increase from climate change. 

Tom Irwin 






From: Mike Weaver
[
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog
of 

orders.

Keith Addison wrote:

Hi Darryl



Very nice!



 



I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list
above. My point is,

don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.

 





I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.



If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at
Journey 

to Forever for it, might help.



It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't
work 

out that way I don't mind.



Best wishes



Keith







 



Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their


gasoline stations up

for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize
the 

returns for their

shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to
dump 

them. I won't

be holding my breath.



As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out
here before.



If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for
whatever reason,

here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.



1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler
parked.



2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local


FreeCycle, or bike

repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something
comfortable and 

practical for

your use. Then use it.



3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct
if 

necessary. Slight

overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight
underinflation. Repeat

monthly or more frequently if required.



4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate
schedule. 

Check owner's

manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions
control 

system problems,

etc while you are at it.



5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip
chaining).



6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or
carpool.



7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your


vehicle. There are

many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE


dual-fuel incentive,

where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel
capable. Check your

vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or
appropriate 

(or make your

own, of course).



8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating
extra 

weight uses more

energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake
wear. 

(e.g. sand and salt

mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer
as well).



9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser
/ 

energy wise labels.



10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for
something 

that is as fuel-

efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not


necessarily all of

your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional
requirements.



11) If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil
company 

to boycott or

support. Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they
are 

local and have

been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was
fashionable. I boycott

Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental
record 

(and other

undesirable practices). Trust me, if we actually managed to
drop 

Exxon's gross

revenue in a regional market by 10% for a 

Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Taryn

Hi Keith, et alii.

On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

  Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam
 
  Did you read this?
 
  http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
  5-August/003230.html
  Or:
  http://snipurl.com/hb3u
  [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
  Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
  Speak for Jesus
 

Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now
misplaced)

:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads?

 led me to some striking information regarding the US's
post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.
Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and
liberation theology, in Latin American politics.

Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites
accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then
to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing
together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war
Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist
in name only by the 1940s.

Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the 
original threads.

It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died 
mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd 
forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist 
theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John 
Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech 
Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed 
Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What 
happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were 
the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a 
side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in 
Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting 
comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd 
bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.)

I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I 
thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and 
powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic 
Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could 
perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of 
development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we 
got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion 
or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert 
Johnson made a better deal.

I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that, 
but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like.

So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre
predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great
resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and
Pannirselvam. (and many others)

Thanks to all!

In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all
together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with
much funding from ARPA,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency which was created to respond
to The Communist Threat. Now of course the internet is one of our
best tools for responding to the Capitalist Threat.

It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means. 
Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I 
don't like ploughs!)

Regarding the Clash of Civilisations, it's astonishing that
Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel,
have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of
a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone
perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' Skinny
Legs and All.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553377884 I've re-read
this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is
illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff
before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g.
Still Life with Woodpecker or Jitterbug Perfume, since his work is
rich and complex.

Thankyou. Interesting reviews.

You might find this interesting, though probably the only thing it 
has in common with Skinny Legs and All is the Middle East and the 
Arabs:

21. A Kingdom of Agricultural Art in Europe
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_21.html

22. An Historical Reconstruction
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_22.html

Again, thanks to all here who help us see past the veils, to a larger
world.

Thanks indeed.

(And yes indeed, Get a Mac!)

Best wishes

Keith


Taryn
ornae.com

  I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I posted
  that instead.
 
  By the way, here's Doug's post, Religion, 

[Biofuel] Japan - was Re: Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Khamhiane

Dear Keith,

I have followed your forum for a while.

Well, it's its own forum really, I'm just one of the staff.

You said that It's used here in Japan too, is that mean you are 
currently in Japan?

Yes, it says so on our home page. A lot of what we're doing here 
isn't on our English website yet but that'll change soon. (Not just 
biofuels.) You could check the Japanese website, but that's not 
completely up-to-date either, nor does it cover everything we're 
doing.

The reason I asked is that if yes I would like to visite you to see 
physically your projects.

I don't want to sound unwelcoming, but we're always busy here, we 
work all the time, you might come a long way and then we'd have very 
little time to spend with you. If it's biodiesel you're interested 
in, we do hold seminars and workshops on biodiesel here (and 
elsewhere) most months, the last one was 10 days ago, the next one is 
on October 9. They're in Japanese, can you speak Japanese? Everything 
else we do here is development work, it's really only the biodiesel 
project that's open to the public in any way, and then only if you 
come to a seminar. This place isn't intended to be a demonstration 
farm or anything like that, it's where we work.

If you do want to come, email me offlist, maybe we can arrange something.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

Thanks in advance

Best regards,
Khamhiane

Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dag Pieter

 Hello all,
 I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
 oil, well, that is what I thought.

snip


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Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......

2005-08-30 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Pannirselvam

It's always a pleasure to read your posts, thankyou!

   Keith Thanks for your information

You're welcome.

   Even though ,   there  are  several  well  established 
technology  that can be used to  make   waste  into fuel  and hence 
also food  by  small scale biorefinary  in almost all countries, yet 
economically  grown  country  is  moving very slow  in this  sector .

Yes, aren't they. It's one reason I long ago stopped calling them the 
developed countries. They're beginning to need *real* technology to 
face a real future, but they can't back out of the blind alleys their 
misdevelopment has led them into, they can't develop appropriate 
technology out of the over-developed, centralised and resource-hungry 
herds of technological white elephants they have now, and they can't 
leapfrog it all either like so many 3rd World countries are doing. 
(Such as who needs a billion-dollar telecommunications infrastructure 
anyway, just get mobiles and a cheap satellite, and so on.) So 
they're stuck, and we're not. And indeed it's their Big Blue 
corporations and corrupt politics that are keeping them stuck, that's 
how the powers-that-be want it, and they think they're omnipotent 
enough to go on shaping the future their way.

I don't think they can stop the green way of sustainable living, 
locally or globally, though I'm sure they think they can. But it's 
happening anyway, and worldwide opposition has got them on the 
defensive or on the retreat on just about every front (though it 
might not look that way at first glance).

After reading  your e mail
I now  understand well  why our list members  need  to include the 
biofuel problems linked to all political  and global world  issues 
.The very big  corporate production  model adopted by the  Canada 
and Australia   not following  decentralised  biofuel projects 
based on their plentiful  renewable resources  can be  surely due to 
too  big blue  Corporate companies  and their  corrupted politics 
not  allowing  the green way  of sustainable  path  for the local 
and global  developments.
How  an small farmer can use ethanol if the  economically well 
designed car  is not available in several  countries but made 
possible  in Brazil. Brazilian government has to put huge amount of 
money for research to make  the big Multinational Corporate  all the 
Car company earlier in 1980 , now they all fighting with one another 
to  make flexible biofuel car to run simultaneously ,natural 
gas(biogas) , alcohol and  gasoline.We can send  details about the 
Brasilian ethanol car

Please do!

and I beleive that car can be modified  to run with etanol  based on 
the information  in the internet with especialized people.
I am sure waste vegetable oil can also  make  this  biofuel car more 
flexible .
May be Brazil can export the car  and combustible  to  the 
developing world where the speed and luxury  is not the matter but 
biofuel is very  far away the common man .Thus biofuel can be 
practical solution to get away poverty and  dependence of poor on 
rich.

I'm sure you're right, South-South trade. Do you think India might 
soon be in a similar position? South Africa is another possibility a 
bit further down the road, and so is China I suppose.

Regards

Keith


Kind regards to all our list members


sd
Pannir selvam  P.V
Brasil


On 8/27/05, Keith Addison 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Dear Pannirselvam

 Dear  Wdt
 
 
As motor made in Brasil to run on ethanol  has  engine design
 with higher compression than gasoline  car , you  can think of
 importing  the same  as the technology envolves  not only the engine
 , but also several other parts of the car.As I understand , may be
 Keith knows much better , the  bioethanol fuel  programme made in
 Australia is not yet made  suceeesful one.

I don't know any better Pan. I think you're right, and I think they
made it a maximum of 10% with 90% gasoline, following a disgraceful
disinformation campaign against ethanol. That was a couple of years
ago, I think it's all in the list archives. I haven't followed it
closely since then. Last I heard they were proposing big taxes on
biodiesel, including homebrewers, but I don't know what's become of
that either. Maybe this is what one should expect from the world's #1
coal exporter and #2 global warming denier. Australians themselves
are another matter, I don't know how long they'd accept this kind of
treatment.

Regards

Keith


Regrading making etanol from  waste orange we  can help you  as
 this can be made  using simple  technology
 
 sd
 Pannirselvam
 Brasil
 
 On 8/26/05, Wireless Data Transfer
 mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:wd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hello there! This is the second time I post this question, since
 nobody responded to the first time, please advice!

snip




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Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

2005-08-30 Thread Brian Rodgers
Damn. I wish people would check validity of stuff before they send it
around. I have received one or two per day of these bogus emails about
sticking it up their collective behinds. I wish more people would
write something, anything in their own words and send it around to all
their friends. Internet Chain Letters, Yuk.
As mentioned here, it is simple to check out a story for rumor content
at www.snopes.com
I really like the way Barbara Mikkelson writes.
 Fun informative and she doesn't make you feel like you are an idiot.
Brian Rodgers

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[Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Manzo, Emil








About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a man who invented a process
that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The process reminded me
of the way they make super high density integrated circuits. His website was
ardev.com and when I went back again it went down (I think its some kind
of flower site now). The announcement said he refused to just sell off the
patent because he wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up with Westinghouse
to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this? Perhaps it
was BS. 



Regards,

Emil








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Re: [Biofuel] How much?

2005-08-30 Thread Marty Phee
The price for soy says 23'10.  I would assume that's $0.2310/#.


Appal Energy wrote:

Marty,

Commodities such as vegetable oils and animal phats are sold by the 
pound weight. Search the Chicago Board of Trade for pricing and then 
convert to gallons using the multiplier of ~7.6#s per gallon.

Todd Swearingen

Marty Phee wrote:

  

How much is a bbl of say soy oil or palm oil.  I'm not sure where to 
look online.  bbls of this oil are 55gals right?  Not the 42gals of 
crude oil.

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Re: [Biofuel] Bush's Obscene Tirades

2005-08-30 Thread Brian Rodgers
a friend sent me this. Keep in mind, it's from a liberal Web site. But
even if only part of it is true, it's still pretty scary.
 
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7267.shtml

Bush's Obscene Tirades Rattle White House Aides
By DOUG THOMPSON
Aug 25, 2005, 06:19
   
While President George W. Bush travels around the country in a
last-ditch effort to sell his Iraq war, White House aides scramble
frantically behind the scenes to hide the dark mood of an increasingly
angry leader who unleashes obscenity-filled outbursts at anyone who
dares disagree with him.

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread des
Garth  Kim Travis wrote:

 Greetings,

 I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that 
 can also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is 
 used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired.  
 And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto 
 of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.  Lots of 
 overlap and back up.  If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat 
 in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to figure out how to put a 
 1/4 of a cow in there at a time.grin
 Bright Blessings,
 Kim

A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is 
going more toward solar heat.  A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled 
10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror 
salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are 
integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to 
electricity, but then the question arose, do I really want to be 
dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries?  So the 
system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that.  Then, draw 
from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for 
water, or home space.  And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus 
infrared rays and collect heat.  Solar panels tend to do less well with 
clouds.

doug swanson

-- 
All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. 


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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Michael Redler
I haven't heard of anything much higher than 30 percent efficient.

Mike

See also:

"An unexpected discovery could yield a full spectrum solar cell"Nov 18, 2002 http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-full-spectrum-solar-cell.html A Step Closer to the Optimum Solar Cell March 24, 2004  http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/sb-MSD-multibandsolar-panels.html"Manzo, Emil" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a man who invented a process that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The process reminded me of the way they make super high density integrated circuits. His website was ardev.com and when I went back again it went down (I think it’s some kind of flower site now). The announcement said he refused to just sell off the patent because he wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up with Westinghouse to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this? Perhaps it was BS. 

Regards,
Emil
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Joe Street




I wonder if it had to do with Gallium Indium Nitride? Check this
link
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell.html
In a nutshell it works by varying the doping level of indium in Gallium
Nitride so as to smoothly taper the bandgap of the material from low to
high energy. This is a step beyond the multijunction cells which are
the highest efficiency (25-35%) and extremely expensive used in the
satellite industry. This approach could potentially use a graded
profile of indium doping in a stack of junctions so that photons from
the entire energy spectrum will find their home at some point within
the device. I don't think this approaches 90% (is that an
exaggeration) but 75% may be doable. This technique would require an
MBE (molecular beam epitaxy) which is a ridiculously expensive ultra
high vacuum deposition tool and material growth rates are painfully
slow so although it has the potential to make super PV cells don't hold
your breath to see them on the market. General consensus is that the
viability point for the comercialization of solar power is somewhere at
the dollar per watt mark. However these predictions were made based on
some standard economic benchmarks. Due to what peak oil could do all
bets are off on this figure for the future.

Joe

Manzo, Emil wrote:

  
  
  
  
  About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a
man who invented a process
that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The process
reminded me
of the way they make super high density integrated circuits. His
website was
ardev.com and when I went back again it went down (I think its some
kind
of flower site now). The announcement said he refused to just sell off
the
patent because he wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up
with Westinghouse
to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this?
Perhaps it
was BS. 
  
  Regards,
  Emil
  
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Garth Kim Travis
Greetings,
I hate batteries.  That is why I want a system that I can power with 
methane if I need power when the sun is not shining.  I use almost no power 
after the sun goes down, most of the year.  We do not watch tv or other 
wasteful appetites for power, but, I do sometimes like to sew at night, so 
having the option of turning the power on, I like.  Most people would be 
unhappy with a system that I can live with, I don't mind a little 
inconvenience, it just reminds me how lucky I am to have power.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 09:17 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
Garth  Kim Travis wrote:

  Greetings,
 
  I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that
  can also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is
  used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired.
  And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto
  of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.  Lots of
  overlap and back up.  If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat
  in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to figure out how to put a
  1/4 of a cow in there at a time.grin
  Bright Blessings,
  Kim
 
A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is
going more toward solar heat.  A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled
10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror
salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are
integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to
electricity, but then the question arose, do I really want to be
dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries?  So the
system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that.  Then, draw
from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for
water, or home space.  And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus
infrared rays and collect heat.  Solar panels tend to do less well with
clouds.

doug swanson

--
All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits.


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[Biofuel] Simple twist of fate...

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
 From my limited experience in Latin America I always felt the EV's were 
making inroads because they had enough sense to actually have
local people in positions of authority, where as most (not all, Jaime 
Sin comes to mind) Catholic big-wigs were white.  I will say that when I 
was working in Africa the CRS people were very good.

Mike Lapsed Unitarian Weaver

Keith Addison wrote:

Hello Taryn

  

Hi Keith, et alii.

On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote:



Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam

Did you read this?

http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
5-August/003230.html
Or:
http://snipurl.com/hb3u
[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to
Speak for Jesus

  

Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now
misplaced)



:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads?

  

led me to some striking information regarding the US's
post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America.
Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and
liberation theology, in Latin American politics.

Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites
accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then
to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing
together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war
Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist
in name only by the 1940s.



Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the 
original threads.

It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died 
mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd 
forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist 
theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John 
Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech 
Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed 
Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What 
happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were 
the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a 
side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in 
Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting 
comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd 
bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.)

I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I 
thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and 
powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic 
Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could 
perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of 
development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we 
got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion 
or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert 
Johnson made a better deal.

I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that, 
but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like.

  

So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre
predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great
resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and
Pannirselvam. (and many others)



Thanks to all!

  

In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all
together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with
much funding from ARPA,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency which was created to respond
to The Communist Threat. Now of course the internet is one of our
best tools for responding to the Capitalist Threat.



It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means. 
Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I 
don't like ploughs!)

  

Regarding the Clash of Civilisations, it's astonishing that
Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel,
have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of
a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone
perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' Skinny
Legs and All.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553377884 I've re-read
this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is
illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff
before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g.
Still Life with Woodpecker or Jitterbug Perfume, since his work is
rich and complex.



Thankyou. Interesting reviews.

You might find this interesting, though probably the only thing it 
has in common with Skinny Legs and All is the Middle East and the 
Arabs:

21. A Kingdom of Agricultural Art in Europe

Re: [Biofuel] Japan - was Re: Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Mike Weaver
Hi Khamhiane,
If you happen to be anywhere near the SE US I can reccommend the 
Piedmont Biofuels tour.  They are quite friendly and put up with me 
asking them questions for hours.  There also quite a few other BD plants 
scattered in the US.

Good luck.

-Mike

Keith Addison wrote:

Hello Khamhiane

  

Dear Keith,

I have followed your forum for a while.



Well, it's its own forum really, I'm just one of the staff.

  

You said that It's used here in Japan too, is that mean you are 
currently in Japan?



Yes, it says so on our home page. A lot of what we're doing here 
isn't on our English website yet but that'll change soon. (Not just 
biofuels.) You could check the Japanese website, but that's not 
completely up-to-date either, nor does it cover everything we're 
doing.

  

The reason I asked is that if yes I would like to visite you to see 
physically your projects.



I don't want to sound unwelcoming, but we're always busy here, we 
work all the time, you might come a long way and then we'd have very 
little time to spend with you. If it's biodiesel you're interested 
in, we do hold seminars and workshops on biodiesel here (and 
elsewhere) most months, the last one was 10 days ago, the next one is 
on October 9. They're in Japanese, can you speak Japanese? Everything 
else we do here is development work, it's really only the biodiesel 
project that's open to the public in any way, and then only if you 
come to a seminar. This place isn't intended to be a demonstration 
farm or anything like that, it's where we work.

If you do want to come, email me offlist, maybe we can arrange something.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

  

Thanks in advance

Best regards,
Khamhiane

Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dag Pieter



Hello all,
I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
oil, well, that is what I thought.
  


snip


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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Hakan Falk

Emil,

I think that you ca assume that it was BS, because to only to get a 
surface to absorb 90%, would be very difficult.  If you managed to 
absorb 90%, your conversion process to electricity would then have 
100% efficiency at always? Maybe the site do better in selling 
flowers. The highest serious numbers I have seen is 35-38% 
efficiency. The efficiency of currently mass produced common panels 
is 8-12%. This is lab data at 90 degree angle.

Hakan


At 19:02 30/08/2005, you wrote:
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=_=_NextPart_001_01C5AD84.A4B9BB88

About 8-9 months ago I read a report about a man who invented a 
process that yielded a high-efficiency solar panel. Like 90%. The 
process reminded me of the way they make super high density 
integrated circuits. His website was ardev.com and when I went back 
again it went down (I think it's some kind of flower site now). The 
announcement said he refused to just sell off the patent because he 
wanted it to actually be produced. He was teaming up with 
Westinghouse to produce the solar panels. Anybody hear something 
more about this? Perhaps it was BS.

Regards,
Emil




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Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

2005-08-30 Thread John Hayes
Nancy Canning wrote:
 - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine
 
 Nancy Canning wrote:

 Propylene glycol as it is used tons and tons of products including
 industrial cleaners, shampoo's, toothpaste, creams,  etc.  It is very 
 toxic,
 the industry even has it in children's prescriptions. Wonder if this 
 type of
 propylene glycol has less poison/carcinogenic toxicity qualities vrs 
 what is
 out there right now?  Anybody have any info?

 Nancy.

 You are mistakenly confusing ethylene glycol with propylene glycol. Both
 can be used as antifreeze or deicers, but they have very different
 metabolic fates in the body. Thus, ethylene glycol is toxic while
 propylene glycol is food safe.

 What is Propylene Glycol?
  
 Propylene Glycol (PG, Polyethylene Glycol (PEG), Butylene Glycol (BG) 
 and Ethylene Glycol (EG) are all petroleum derivatives that act as 
 solvents, surfactants, and wetting agents.  They can easily penetrate 
 the skin, and can weaken protein and cellular structure.  In fact, PG 
 penetrates the skin so quickly that the EPA warns factory workers to 
 avoid skin contact, to prevent brain, liver, and kidney abnormalities.  
 PG is present in many stick deodorants, often in heavier concentration 
 than in most industrial applications. (Nyack, Dr. Vin, Ph.D., 
 Biochemist; personal communication). And Propylene Glycol is what is 
 used to carry the active ingredients in those transdermal patches INTO 
 YOUR BODY
 Imagine a bottle of Anti-Freeze in a picture with shampoos, deodorants, 
 cosmetics, lotions and toothpastes?
 The question you should be asking is .. What's Anti-Freeze doing IN my 
 shampoos, deodorants, cosmetics, lotions and toothpaste?
 Yes, the main ingredient in anti-freeze is in all of these products.
 Shocked?  You should be!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html

jh

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Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

2005-08-30 Thread Ray J

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol 
as generally recognized as safe, which means that it is acceptable for 
use in flavorings, drugs, and cosmetics, and as a direct food additive.



*

  Ethylene glycol is only mildly irritating to mucous membranes or
  skin and is slowly and poorly absorbed through the skin.

* Ingestion is the most important exposure route. Dermal absorption
  is negligible and does not contribute significantly to systemic
  toxicity.
* Ethylene glycol is only mildly irritating to skin and mucous
  membranes and is not absorbed well through the skin or by inhalation.
* Ingestion of ethylene glycol produces CNS depression which may be
  accompanied by nausea, vomiting, and abdominal cramps.
* Metabolites of ethylene glycol produce severe metabolic acidosis
  and damage to the brain, heart, and kidneys.
* Severe poisoning is potentially fatal if treatment is inadequate
  or delayed.
* There are only a few reports on the adverse health effects in
  humans of chronic exposure to ethylene glycol. Irritation of the
  throat, mild headache, low backache, loss of consciousness, and
  nystagmus have been reported. These symptoms were resolved when
  the exposure ceased.
*

  Ethylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the
  amount of acid, resulting in metabolic problems. Similar to
  ethylene glycol, propylene glycol increases the amount of acid in
  the body. However, larger amounts of propylene glycol are needed
  to cause this effect.

*

  The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), the
  International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), and the EPA
  have not classified ethylene glycol and propylene glycol for
  carcinogenicity. Studies with people who used ethylene glycol did
  not show carcinogenic effects. Animal studies also have not shown
  these chemicals to be carcinogens.

Ray J


http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg96.html
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts96.html



John Hayes wrote:

Nancy Canning wrote:
  

- Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine



Nancy Canning wrote:

  

Propylene glycol as it is used tons and tons of products including
industrial cleaners, shampoo's, toothpaste, creams,  etc.  It is very 
toxic,
the industry even has it in children's prescriptions. Wonder if this 
type of
propylene glycol has less poison/carcinogenic toxicity qualities vrs 
what is
out there right now?  Anybody have any info?


Nancy.

You are mistakenly confusing ethylene glycol with propylene glycol. Both
can be used as antifreeze or deicers, but they have very different
metabolic fates in the body. Thus, ethylene glycol is toxic while
propylene glycol is food safe.
  


  

What is Propylene Glycol?
 
Propylene Glycol (PG, Polyethylene Glycol (PEG), Butylene Glycol (BG) 
and Ethylene Glycol (EG) are all petroleum derivatives that act as 
solvents, surfactants, and wetting agents.  They can easily penetrate 
the skin, and can weaken protein and cellular structure.  In fact, PG 
penetrates the skin so quickly that the EPA warns factory workers to 
avoid skin contact, to prevent brain, liver, and kidney abnormalities.  
PG is present in many stick deodorants, often in heavier concentration 
than in most industrial applications. (Nyack, Dr. Vin, Ph.D., 
Biochemist; personal communication). And Propylene Glycol is what is 
used to carry the active ingredients in those transdermal patches INTO 
YOUR BODY
Imagine a bottle of Anti-Freeze in a picture with shampoos, deodorants, 
cosmetics, lotions and toothpastes?
The question you should be asking is .. What's Anti-Freeze doing IN my 
shampoos, deodorants, cosmetics, lotions and toothpaste?
Yes, the main ingredient in anti-freeze is in all of these products.
Shocked?  You should be!



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html

jh

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Darryl McMahon
The best result will depend entirely on the specific circumstances.  Not all 
places 
boast good solar or wind energy resources.  Could be both, one or the other or 
neither in any specific location.  That requires analysis (data logging or 
existing 
insolation or wind maps can only provide information for a general area, not a 
specific point location).

That said, in general, I believe wind will be the primary sustainable source to 
watch in years to come.  Global dimming is a little-known, but recognized, 
phenomenon.  In much of the world, less insolation is reaching the earth's 
surface, 
which will impact conventional solar (PV) panels negatively.  However, global 
warming should mean that there will be more energy in the atmosphere, which 
lead to 
higher average winds around the planet.

Both sources have advantages and disadvantages.  Many people believe you should 
have both, to diversify your supply opportunities.  I still believe you should 
do 
the resource analysis for your location, and go with whichever will work best 
in 
your situation.  If you are blessed with both good solar and wind energy, then 
wind 
will likely provide more watt-hours for the money.

Darryl McMahon




From:   Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date sent:  Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:36:10 -0300
Subject:[Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
Send reply to:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hi All,  
 
 If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense 
 to buy
 or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature 
 expected
 occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture
 evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do 
 you all
 think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from
 climate change.   
 
 Tom Irwin 
   _  
 
   From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
 
 FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog of 
 orders.
 
 Keith Addison wrote:
 
 Hi Darryl
 
 Very nice!
 
  
 
 I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point 
 is,
 don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
  
 
 
 I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
 
 If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey 
 to Forever for it, might help.
 
 It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work 
 out that way I don't mind.
 
 Best wishes
 
 Keith
 
 
 
  
 
 Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
 gasoline stations up
 for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
 returns for their
 shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
 them. I won't
 be holding my breath.
 
 As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.
 
 If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever 
 reason,
 here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
 
 1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.
 
 2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local 
 FreeCycle, or bike
 repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and 
 practical for
 your use. Then use it.
 
 3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if 
 necessary. Slight
 overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation. Repeat
 monthly or more frequently if required.
 
 4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. 
 Check owner's
 manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control 
 system problems,
 etc while you are at it.
 
 5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
 
 6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.
 
 7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your 
 vehicle. There are
 many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE 
 dual-fuel incentive,
 where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable. Check 
 your
 vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate (or make 
 your
 own, of course).
 
 8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra 
 weight uses more
 energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. 
 (e.g. sand and salt
 mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).
 
 9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / 
 energy wise labels.
 
 10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something 
 that is as fuel-
 efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not 
 necessarily all of
 your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.
 
 11) If 

Re: [Biofuel] Water heater

2005-08-30 Thread AntiFossil
Marty, and all,

I have to respectfully disagree with Bob C. on this one. The days
of freebies are still very much alive! It might just be an issue
of where you seek your freebies : )

Since approx. March of this year, I have been able to get 18 used water
heaters. My only cost has been the time, and expense it takes to
go and pick them up from 3 different plumbing/hardware shops in my
local area. Had I wanted them, I would estimate that I could have
had at least twice that many, although I would probably be divorced and
living out of them right now had I accepted them all. There's
really no secret to getting as many as you need. 

For most folks, I would think that one or two tanks would fine, but
that would depend on your intentions. Find a local plumbing shop,
or Hardware store (not a huge retail chain) that sells and installs
what they sell and ask them what they do with the old water heaters
that they remove during their installs. In my part of the world,
two of the contractors bring the old water heaters back to their shops
and dump them out back. Then, when this particular area get's
full enough they call the scrap man and he comes and hauls them all
away to the scrap metal yard for, as Bob C. noted, a fee. If you
are willing to go and pick up a few of them for no fee, that's usually
great news to these pro's! 

Good luck hunting water heaters!

On 8/30/05, Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the info.My friend and I are going to do this.I'd like tostart with a proven design and go from there and he has grand plans ofhow to do everything.I really don't have room to do it and he does so
I need to give him leeway in the design.Bob Clark wrote: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Will a water heater ware out/rust out?Say if you start from a new
heater.How long can you expect it to last?Marty, and allI
am currently using six water heaters that have been in service for a
little over five years. (One has actually been operating as a waste oil
burner since 1996) and to date I have seen no sign of rust through
and/or burn out. I have several more used water heaters that I am in
the midst of converting for one project or another. ALL of the ones I
am using were used to start with. One had a small leak in the seam when
I originally obtained it, but I am lucky enough to have a complete
steel fabrication shop here so repairing that wasn't too difficult. I
have two electric tanks that I left the heating elements in to use as
pre-heaters. Others are my first 'still' experiments and are fired with
a modified propane burner, now running on methane gas. Those two would
be the ones that I suspect will burn out first (the bottom area) so I
keep a closer eye on them, but so far no sign of trouble.In
our area the local trash companies collect used appliances (including
water heaters) from off the side of the road once each quarter (every
three months) so I always keep an eye out the weekend before the
collection date and pickup all the water heaters I see. BUT, I have
never used a new one for anything so can only guess about that, but my
thought would be this: each of the heater tanks I am using now had been
used for water heating for years before I got ahold of them. I KNOW
they have lasted from five years to nine years (and still counting) so
I would think it would be safe to say a new water heater tank should
easily give you ten years of service, if you buy a quality one to start
with. But a suggestion; if this will be your first 'project' using a
water heater tank, why not see if you can find one at a local salvage
yard or dump. The days of 'freebies from those kind of places are over
(at least everyplace I know of) but the 'scrapper' is only going to get
five dollars tops for the old heater, so they'd surely sell you one for
ten bucks??? That would be a much smaller investment then a new water
heater. However, if you have some experience with your project already
and want to make sure you start with a good tank, maybe new would be
the way to go? I guess only you can make that choice, but based on my
own personal uses, a used tank will give you a good deal of service and
provides a very inexpensive way to 'experiment'. BTW, I have built
several other cookers and stills since those first ones and in some
projects I have use one inch steel plate (for fireboxes and support
walls of a digester) and a couple of heavy gauge stainless steel tanks,
but the old water heaters are still used regularly and are going fine.
To be fair, the two waste-oil burners I built (one sixty gallons and
one eighty gallons) are only used regularly about four months each
year and then sporadically through the rest of the year. But on the
other hand, they also take the most abuse and extreme heat conditions.Hope
that helps a little, and I'm sure there are others on this list with a
lot more experience using water heaters then I. I got my original ideas
and plans from a Mother Earth News magazine from 1980, so there are a
lot of 

[Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?

2005-08-30 Thread TarynToo
I live in South Florida, on high(ish) ground. Katrina came past and 
gave my neighborhood a teeny slap, on her way out to the gulf. Now 1.5 
million people are homeless, jobless, and in shock, just from New 
Orleans alone.

Entrepreneurs and businesses  have always gone where the resources are. 
Regular folks follow behind because that's where the jobs are. 
Government comes along and surrounds a swamp with levees, and calls it 
a city. http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0603feat.html
And of course the Army Corps of Engineers comes along and turns 1200 
miles of winding bottomland river into an 800 mile ditch, contained 
(theoretically) by 7 meter levees.  Homes, factories, and farms fill 
the bottomland right up to the levies.

In a free society, you can't prevent people from trying to turn a swamp 
into a suburb, unless you buy the land and turn it into park or 
wetlands. Ever since agriculture started on the Nile, we've known that 
flood plains are great places to grow crops, so you don't really want 
to take them out of production. There are lots of places in this 
country where the ONLY justification for building homes is gorgeous 
location, like Miami Beach and all the other sandbars on our Atlantic 
coast, or the muddy, fire prone hills above Los Angeles.

But you can't expect to live on a flood plain, or a sand bar, or a 
muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, and be safe. Should governments 
issue building permits in swamps? Should insurance companies write fire 
policies on wooden houses in pine forests? Flood policies on swamps and 
flood plains? Should governments try to control mighty rivers from 
headwaters to delta, destroying wetlands and buffering swamp?  Should 
governments dredge millions of tons of sand back onto the beaches of 
Miami every time a hurricane scours them out?

People have to find work, they have to live where they work, what can 
you do?

Taryn
ornae.com


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[Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?

2005-08-30 Thread TarynToo
I live in South Florida, on high(ish) ground. Katrina came past and 
gave my neighborhood a little slap, on her way out to the warm gulf 
waters, where she organized into a cat 5 hurricane. Now 1.5 million 
people are homeless, jobless, and in shock, just from New Orleans 
alone. There's no guessing how many will be dead when all is accounted 
for.

Entrepreneurs and businesses  have always gone where the resources are. 
Regular folks follow behind because that's where the jobs are. 
Government comes along and surrounds a swamp with levees, and calls it 
a city. http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0603feat.html
And of course the Army Corps of Engineers comes along and turns 2000 
miles of winding bottomland river into a 1000 mile ditch, contained 
(theoretically) by 14 meter levees.  Homes, factories, and farms fill 
the bottomland right up to the levies.

In a free society, you can't prevent people from trying to turn a swamp 
into a suburb, unless you buy the land and turn it into park or 
preserve. Ever since agriculture started on the Nile, we've known that 
flood plains are great places to grow crops, so you don't really want 
to take them out of production. Of course if you dam off the river, the 
plain is no longer renewed, topsoil leaches away, and the land starts 
to sink even lower.  Then there are lots of places in this country 
where the ONLY justification for building homes is gorgeous location, 
like Miami Beach and all the other sandbars on our Atlantic coast, or 
the muddy, fire prone hills above Los Angeles.

People have to find work, they have to live where they work. New 
Orleans grew where it did because it was a handy place for a port that 
served the Mississippi, there was rich fishing in the gulf, it was 
marginally drier than much of the wetland around it.
But, like Venice, it's been sinking since it was built, 
http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0603feat.html and just 
like the proverbial frog in a slowly heating kettle, few have ever 
decided it was time to get out.

But you can't expect to live below sea level next to a sea, or on a 
flood plain, or a sand bar, or a muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, 
and be safe. Should governments issue building permits in swamps? 
Should insurance companies write fire policies on wooden houses in pine 
forests? Flood policies on swamps and flood plains? Should governments 
try to control mighty rivers from headwaters to delta, destroying 
wetlands and the buffering swamp?  Should governments dredge millions 
of tons of sand back onto the beaches of Miami every time a hurricane 
scours them out? Do citizens have a right to settle in the path of 
disaster? Does government have an obligation to make extraordinary 
efforts to save them from that disaster?

Whether we ever get New Orleans dry again, or not, perhaps it should be 
condemned as unfit for human habitation. Made partly into a memorial 
(To stubborn denial in the face of the obvious?) and the rest back to 
wetland. We certainly need the wetlands, and I'd bet that if the 
Mississippi was allowed to set her own course, in only a decade or two 
the entire bowl of New Orleans would become fine breeding grounds, once 
again filling the gulf with life.

I'm not sure I even know my own position on all this, but I've lived in 
the path of hurricanes for many years.  I can't help but stroll the 
beaches of our barrier islands, looking at houses and condos, built on 
SAND BARS, and ask, Are these people nuts? How can they live here and 
expect sympathy and support when a storm sweeps the land right out from 
under them? What lunatic zoning board said it was alright to sell 
condos on sand bars? The buildings do sit on pilings driven a dozen 
meters or more into our very soft bedrock, but that only means they 
might not wash away immediately, instead perching on stilts in the 
Atlantic ocean, when the storm moves the barrier island out from under 
them. And it will, sooner or later.

Taryn
ornae.com


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Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams... Oops, double post.

2005-08-30 Thread TarynToo
Sorry, the earlier posting (20:35:45) is incomplete, I had no idea it 
went out until I noticed the double post on the archives.

Keith,
It's hardly important, but I wondered if there is a simple way to toss 
duplicates and accidents from the archives?

Taryn
ornae.com


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Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems

2005-08-30 Thread Pieter Koole
No, I did not titrate, but made 9 batches of 20 ml in a tube, starting at 3½
gram / ltr of oil, next 4 grams per liter, 4½ grams/ltr etc. In this way I
have made a lot of BD now and it works fine.
There was no difference at all, they all turned hard and the color was like
coffee with milk.
The E900 so they call it, is added at a mixture of soja and palm oil or a
mixture of rapeseedoil and palm oil, at a rate of 3 ppm. There is nothing
else in it, so the manufacturer assured me.
When I try good oil from other restaurants, everything is fine, but as soon
as there is any oil from this man in it, I have the problems there.
Of course a solution would be to stop collecting oil from there, but many
restaurants use the same oil and they have the same scedule of renewing the
oil. They sell high quality chips and snacks and the last thing I expect is,
that they would use their oil too long.
So, I have no idea what is happening. Could it be something like polymeres ?
I don't know anything about polymeres, so maybe it's a stupid question.
Thanks all in advance.
Pieter.


Pieter, I agree with Kieth, it probably is not the anti-foaming agent
which is there in parts per million conc(?).  Have you titrated the
stuff? Maybe a very high free fatty acid content?  Or maybe it is all
saturated fat?  Another possibility is that something is extracted into
the cooking oil in significant quantities, which solidifies when it is
diluted with more oil?


Pieter Koole wrote:
 Thanks Keith,
 If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ?
 I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I
mix
 any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With hard I
mean
 as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly.
 Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will
 have to deal with this more and more in the future.
 Thanks again.


Dag Pieter


Hello all,
I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality
oil, well, that is what I thought.
In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is
dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake
their chips.

From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to

make BD from it.
Can anyone please help me ?
Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900
is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the
future.
E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n

It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first
came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming
agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small
proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe
they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your
biodiesel.

Best wishes

Keith



Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole
Netherlands


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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Jeromie Reeves


:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads?
  

Firefox (or any mozilia browser) + Slogger = Never lose a page and make 
your history fully searchable.
It is very handy and I find the ability to take my bookmarks with me.

Jeromie

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Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.

2005-08-30 Thread Jeromie Reeves
bob allen wrote:

Howdy David,

a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the 
impoverished with taxes they didn't have before. 

See #2

 The flat tax also will 
not address the flight of corporations to tax havens.

flat tax- bad idea.
  

Its a good idea. Yes it doesnt does it? Well simple to fix. You do 
business in the USA? you pay
a flat tax on the money your company brings in Easy isnt it? So what if 
your based outside the USA?
If anything for BEING based outside the borders you should pay MORE. 
Gives companies reason to
base at least some part of them selves in the USA (and that should mean 
more jobs, or at least more
job options). First thing we need to do is totaly clean slate the 
current setup and truely think of what
we want to have. Then lets make it happen (we the people are the bosses, 
arent we? Votes mean
something dont they? If not then give up, go home and cry cause we 
already lost that battle, pickup
your guns as its time to have another revolution)

David M. Brockes wrote:
  

This is why we need a Flat Tax system in this country for both Individual
and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what
we have todayand most of us would probably pay less,



if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more.  A 12% tax rate would 
mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for 
the rich persons reduction.
  

#2
I about fell off my couch when I read this. The poor wont be paying for 
the rich to have a tax break. Flat
taxes would be fair, if I make $1, I pay XX%. Very simple. If I can 
figure out how to make $10 while you
can only figure out how to make $1, why should I have to give more then 
XX% of it over then you? Cause
your unable or unwilling to make more? Thats not right at all. A flat 
tax IS. Something that I have yet to see
is lets solve the real tax issue. IMNSHO the real issue is the goverment 
waste of money, tax breeaks to large
companies (normaly people who give donations to the right pockets) and 
other misguided efforts of people.
If we were to truely reform taxes to a flat tax (a good thing) it would 
mean we HAVE reformed the goverment
spending process (and a whole lot more)

Jeromie Reeves




  but certainly
  

everyone would pay a fair share.and think of all the savings there
would be from all the extra costs currently related to our Tax system!!
Just IMHO!!
Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.


It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move
the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least
(preferably not at all).



cut


  



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[Biofuel] Mikes everywhere I look!

2005-08-30 Thread Douglas Smith
Mike someone wrote G>:

What!? I have kids!!?

I think Doug's got the wrong Mike on that quote (as Mike Weaver already noticed).

:-)

Mike

Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nah, the kids have their own room.

Douglas Smith wrote:

Michael Redler wrote:

Uh oh. I'm cohabitating illegally. Wait'll I tell my GF. 

I'm sorry folks, I seem to have made a silly mistake. My apologies to both Mikes. It's always the details that screw us up, isn't it?  : )

Doug Smith
-
Families is where our nation finds hope,
Where our wings take dream. – George W. Bush
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Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft

2005-08-30 Thread Brian Rodgers
Oh well.  No good deed goes unpunished!
Scary but true, Mike.
I have shifted my business to PC repair from a small DSL company
because most people use Microsoft products and the monopoly Qwest
killed the old business.
We live in the mountains a short distance from our business.
At the same time as I attempt to educate clients about the
vulnerabilities of Windows and install free protection software, I
also have taken the position that it is time to conserve fuel and get
back to nature with sustainable lifestyles.
I am beginning to see parallels with these two worlds. 

Most people don't want to hear about conservation at the cost of convenience.
Most of my clients don't want to take the time to learn another OS to
save themselves grief later. Seems like a Homer Simpson virus is going
around. How much will it cost me right now?
No future with this type of thinking.

I just had one of my newsletter readers stop by the shop to let me
know that I am wasting my time with all of these biofuel pipe dreams
.
Thanks, I needed to hear that again.
My wife in support said, Never mind that Brian is researching
alternative fuels for all of us, He is also doing it for himself!
Why is my peace of mind such a hard pill for others to swallow? 
I think they feel somehow that I am merely cheating.

I still buy petrol, but just by thinking that someday I will not need
to... I am getting one over on the rest of the sheep?
I think what I am doing is a positive effort toward a real future.
It isn't competitive.
Sustainable.
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Why do you hate batteries? They are a needed device. I would rather have 
a hydrogen PEM fuel cell setup. Use wind
to feed a water seperation tank then feed the H2/O2 to the hPEM. Only 
use the hPEM when power beyond the wind
source is needed, or at locations remote from the wind fed grid.

Jeromie

Garth  Kim Travis wrote:

Greetings,
I hate batteries.  That is why I want a system that I can power with 
methane if I need power when the sun is not shining.  I use almost no power 
after the sun goes down, most of the year.  We do not watch tv or other 
wasteful appetites for power, but, I do sometimes like to sew at night, so 
having the option of turning the power on, I like.  Most people would be 
unhappy with a system that I can live with, I don't mind a little 
inconvenience, it just reminds me how lucky I am to have power.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 09:17 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote:
  

Garth  Kim Travis wrote:



Greetings,

I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that
can also be fired with methane.  Small solar panels for stuff that is
used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired.
And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto
of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car.  Lots of
overlap and back up.  If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat
in the freezer does not thaw.  I have yet to figure out how to put a
1/4 of a cow in there at a time.grin
Bright Blessings,
Kim

  

A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is
going more toward solar heat.  A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled
10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror
salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are
integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to
electricity, but then the question arose, do I really want to be
dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries?  So the
system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that.  Then, draw


from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for
  

water, or home space.  And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus
infrared rays and collect heat.  Solar panels tend to do less well with
clouds.

doug swanson

--
All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits.


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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels

2005-08-30 Thread Manzo, Emil









Hi Joe, thanks for the link. On page 2 it states: Indium
gallium nitride solar cells could be made. approaching the maximum
theoretical efficiencies of better than 70 percent. The article I read centered on the patent of a
deposition process. I dont remember the elements used though. Definitely
a good read! With RD going on worldwide,
theres bound to be more energy breakthroughs in our lifetime. 



Regards,

Emil



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Street
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005
2:33 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar
panels



I wonder if it had to do
with Gallium Indium Nitride? Check this link http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell.html
In a nutshell it works by varying the doping level of indium in Gallium Nitride
so as to smoothly taper the bandgap of the material from low to high
energy. This is a step beyond the multijunction cells which are the
highest efficiency (25-35%) and extremely expensive used in the satellite
industry. This approach could potentially use a graded profile of indium
doping in a stack of junctions so that photons from the entire energy spectrum
will find their home at some point within the device. I don't think this
approaches 90% (is that an exaggeration) but 75% may be doable. This
technique would require an MBE (molecular beam epitaxy) which is a ridiculously
expensive ultra high vacuum deposition tool and material growth rates are
painfully slow so although it has the potential to make super PV cells don't
hold your breath to see them on the market. General consensus is that the
viability point for the comercialization of solar power is somewhere at the
dollar per watt mark. However these predictions were made based on some
standard economic benchmarks. Due to what peak oil could do all bets are
off on this figure for the future.

Joe

Manzo, Emil wrote:



About 8-9 months ago I
read a report about a man who invented a process that yielded a high-efficiency
solar panel. Like 90%. The process reminded me of the way they make super high
density integrated circuits. His website was ardev.com and when I went back
again it went down (I think its some kind of flower site now). The
announcement said he refused to just sell off the patent because he wanted it
to actually be produced. He was teaming up with Westinghouse to produce the
solar panels. Anybody hear something more about this? Perhaps it was BS. 



Regards,

Emil







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Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind

2005-08-30 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Regardless of the climate changes wind is cheaper by far. lets say you 
need 25Kw/H per day (that is my average use)

This assumes no storage facility and constant production

Solar you have MAYBE 12 hours/day to make electricity. Of that you can 
only count on 25% to be producing MAX panel power.
This means you need to make 2Kw/h (12 hours production) and 6.25Kw/H 
with 4 hours for production.

With wind you need only 1.05Kw/H

Now reality says you wont get wind 24/7 (some palces do) and that you 
will have days where you wont get any sun.

For a home wind setup I would go with 2Kw/H and a fair sized storage 
facility. Solar I would go with 10Kw/H and a huge
storage facility. If I owned the building I live in (i rent office + apt 
in the same building) I would mount 4 500w generators
on the roof. We have a fairly good wind blowing all the time. Plenty of 
space for a good 24v battery bank with 2000aH.
Pay off is around 3 years. It can be much shorter depending on your 
power use along with if your power co has a
co-generation energy credit program.

Jeromie


Tom Irwin wrote:

 Hi All,
  
 If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more 
 sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If 
 the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days 
 from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the 
 rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly 
 constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change.
  
 Tom Irwin 

 
 *From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 *Sent:* Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300
 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

 FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6
 backlog of
 orders.

 Keith Addison wrote:

 Hi Darryl
 
 Very nice!
 
 
 
 I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above.
 My point is,
 don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
 
 
 
 I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
 
 If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey
 to Forever for it, might help.
 
 It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't
 work
 out that way I don't mind.
 
 Best wishes
 
 Keith
 
 
 
 
 
 Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their
 gasoline stations up
 for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the
 returns for their
 shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump
 them. I won't
 be holding my breath.
 
 As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here
 before.
 
 If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for
 whatever reason,
 here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
 
 1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked.
 
 2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local
 FreeCycle, or bike
 repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and
 practical for
 your use. Then use it.
 
 3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if
 necessary. Slight
 overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight
 underinflation. Repeat
 monthly or more frequently if required.
 
 4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule.
 Check owner's
 manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control
 system problems,
 etc while you are at it.
 
 5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
 
 6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool.
 
 7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your
 vehicle. There are
 many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE
 dual-fuel incentive,
 where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel
 capable. Check your
 vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate
 (or make your
 own, of course).
 
 8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra
 weight uses more
 energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear.
 (e.g. sand and salt
 mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as
 well).
 
 9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser /
 energy wise labels.
 
 10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something
 that is as fuel-
 efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not
 necessarily all of
 your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.
 
 11) If you 

[Biofuel] BP stations for sale

2005-08-30 Thread Bob Clark
snip

Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
gasoline stations up
for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
returns for their
shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
them. I won't
be holding my breath.

snip

All the BP stations in Mercer County, PA have closed and are for sale.
There are numerous BP stations still open for business across the Ohio line, 
less then ten miles away.

What does that mean? I have no idea, just something that I observe in my daily 
travels. IT SURE DOESN'T MEAN I BELIEVE BP IS LOSING MONEY ON THEIR GAS!!  
In fact, I was kinda wondering if they are doing random closings like this 
around the country (and possibly world) and THAT is where they are stating a 
loss from -- property depreciation and NOT gas/oil sales???

Bob C.


PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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