Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0120/Bye-Bye-Blackbird-USDA-acknowledges-a-hand-in-one-mass-bird-death Bye Bye Blackbird: USDA acknowledges a hand in one mass bird death One in a series of mysterious mass bird deaths in the past month was the product of a USDA avicide program, which began as operation Bye Bye Blackbird in the 1960s. By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / January 20, 2011 Atlanta It's not the aflockalyptic fallout from a secret US weapon lab as some have theorized. But the government acknowledged Thursday that it had a hand in one of a string of mysterious mass bird deaths that have spooked residents in Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, South Dakota, and Kentucky in the last month. The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) took responsibility for hundreds of dead starlings that were found on the ground and frozen in trees in a Yankton, S.D., park on Monday. The USDA's Wildlife Services Program, which contracts with farmers for bird control, said it used an avicide poison called DRC-1339 to cull a roost of 5,000 birds that were defecating on a farmer's cattle feed across the state line in Nebraska. But officials said the agency had nothing to do with large and dense recent bird kills in Arkansas and Louisiana. Nevertheless, the USDA's role in the South Dakota bird deaths puts a focus on a little-known government bird-control program that began in the 1960s under the name of Bye Bye Blackbird, which eventually became part of the USDA and was housed in the late '60s at a NASA facility. In 2009, USDA agents euthanized more than 4 million red-winged blackbirds, starlings, cowbirds, and grackles, primarily using pesticides that the government says are not harmful to pets or humans. In addition to the USDA program, a so-called depredation order from the US Fish and Wildlife Service allows blackbirds, grackles, and starlings to be killed by anyone who says they pose health risks or cause economic damage. Though a permit is needed in some instances, the order is largely intended to cut through red tape for farmers, who often employ private contractors to kill the birds and do not need to report their bird culls to any authority. Every winter, there's massive and purposeful kills of these blackbirds, says Greg Butcher, the bird conservation director at the National Audubon Society. These guys are professionals, and they don't want to advertise their work. They like to work fast, efficiently, and out of sight. Bird kills turning too zealous? The depredation order, however, is under review for its impact on the rare rusty blackbird, which roosts with more common species. Ornithologists also suspect that the mass killings may be a factor in declining populations of those species in the US. While the USDA keeps tabs on the number of birds the program euthanizes, the total death toll isn't known because private contractors operating under the depredation order aren't required to keep count in the case of blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, and starlings. My biggest concern is we don't know how many birds are being killed, and we don't have a sense of how at risk the rusty blackbird is because of depredation events in their range, says Mr. Butcher. Yankton animal control officer Lisa Brasel told KTIV-TV that she first believed a cold snap had killed some 200 European starlings that were found dead in Riverside Park, reminding some residents of the final scenes of Alfred Hitchcock's thriller, The Birds. But then she said she received a call from a USDA official who said the agency had poisoned a roost of starlings 10 miles south of Yankton. Usually such poisonings result in flocks falling directly out of their tree roosts. But in this case, the birds traveled a fair distance before falling. They were surprised they came to Yankton like they did and died in our park, said Brasel, according to KTIV-TV. How birds plague farmers Carol Bannerman, a Wildlife Services spokeswoman, said such kills are carried out at the request of farmers who can prove the birds are a nuisance. The farmers also help pay the cost, according to the agency. One example of nuisance birds are European starlings, a non-native species, at US dairies, where a flock of 5,000 can eat 200 pounds of feed a day while soiling equipment and dairy cows. It's not that we have anything against starlings, but our charge is to help protect agriculture ... and protect property and human health or safety, she says. And the fact is, in a lot of rural settings, people say, 'It's just birds, what's the problem?' Ms. Bannerman added, however, that the agency takes care to notify local public-health and law-enforcement agencies before a scheduled kill, and noted what went on in Louisiana and Arkansas, that was totally outside of what we're doing. We're quite concerned that people not connect those. Two mass bird deaths in north Alabama this week are being investigated,
Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
USDA: Blackbirds, Red-Winged - killed, intentional: 965,889 http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/prog_data/2009_prog_data/PDR_G_FY09/Basic_Tables_PDR_G/Table_G_FY2009_Short.pdf And the rest... http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0120/Bye-Bye-Blackbird-USDA-acknowledges-a-hand-in-one-mass-bird-death Bye Bye Blackbird: USDA acknowledges a hand in one mass bird death One in a series of mysterious mass bird deaths in the past month was the product of a USDA avicide program, which began as operation Bye Bye Blackbird in the 1960s. By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / January 20, 2011 Atlanta It's not the aflockalyptic fallout from a secret US weapon lab as some have theorized. But the government acknowledged Thursday that it had a hand in one of a string of mysterious mass bird deaths that have spooked residents in Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, South Dakota, and Kentucky in the last month. The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) took responsibility for hundreds of dead starlings that were found on the ground and frozen in trees in a Yankton, S.D., park on Monday. The USDA's Wildlife Services Program, which contracts with farmers for bird control, said it used an avicide poison called DRC-1339 to cull a roost of 5,000 birds that were defecating on a farmer's cattle feed across the state line in Nebraska. But officials said the agency had nothing to do with large and dense recent bird kills in Arkansas and Louisiana. Nevertheless, the USDA's role in the South Dakota bird deaths puts a focus on a little-known government bird-control program that began in the 1960s under the name of Bye Bye Blackbird, which eventually became part of the USDA and was housed in the late '60s at a NASA facility. In 2009, USDA agents euthanized more than 4 million red-winged blackbirds, starlings, cowbirds, and grackles, primarily using pesticides that the government says are not harmful to pets or humans. In addition to the USDA program, a so-called depredation order from the US Fish and Wildlife Service allows blackbirds, grackles, and starlings to be killed by anyone who says they pose health risks or cause economic damage. Though a permit is needed in some instances, the order is largely intended to cut through red tape for farmers, who often employ private contractors to kill the birds and do not need to report their bird culls to any authority. Every winter, there's massive and purposeful kills of these blackbirds, says Greg Butcher, the bird conservation director at the National Audubon Society. These guys are professionals, and they don't want to advertise their work. They like to work fast, efficiently, and out of sight. Bird kills turning too zealous? The depredation order, however, is under review for its impact on the rare rusty blackbird, which roosts with more common species. Ornithologists also suspect that the mass killings may be a factor in declining populations of those species in the US. While the USDA keeps tabs on the number of birds the program euthanizes, the total death toll isn't known because private contractors operating under the depredation order aren't required to keep count in the case of blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, and starlings. My biggest concern is we don't know how many birds are being killed, and we don't have a sense of how at risk the rusty blackbird is because of depredation events in their range, says Mr. Butcher. Yankton animal control officer Lisa Brasel told KTIV-TV that she first believed a cold snap had killed some 200 European starlings that were found dead in Riverside Park, reminding some residents of the final scenes of Alfred Hitchcock's thriller, The Birds. But then she said she received a call from a USDA official who said the agency had poisoned a roost of starlings 10 miles south of Yankton. Usually such poisonings result in flocks falling directly out of their tree roosts. But in this case, the birds traveled a fair distance before falling. They were surprised they came to Yankton like they did and died in our park, said Brasel, according to KTIV-TV. How birds plague farmers Carol Bannerman, a Wildlife Services spokeswoman, said such kills are carried out at the request of farmers who can prove the birds are a nuisance. The farmers also help pay the cost, according to the agency. One example of nuisance birds are European starlings, a non-native species, at US dairies, where a flock of 5,000 can eat 200 pounds of feed a day while soiling equipment and dairy cows. It's not that we have anything against starlings, but our charge is to help protect agriculture ... and protect property and human health or safety, she says. And the fact is, in a lot of rural settings, people say, 'It's just birds, what's the problem?' Ms. Bannerman added, however, that the agency takes care to notify local public-health and law-enforcement agencies before a scheduled kill, and noted what went on in Louisiana and Arkansas, that was totally outside of what
Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
'Bird-safe glass is also being developed for use in tall buildings. 'Bird-safe building glass is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream. said Parr. Its reality is on the horizon - we are close. The manufacturers are working with the scientists; they're working with us. And local communities are getting into the act as well, with more and more cities - such as San Francisco - looking at policies that implement bird-friendly construction,' Bird-safe glass indeed! Another engineered intrusion of mass-production into building construction, a field that has long proved resistant to it despite all the prevalent theories (Fuller's Dymaxion house came to naught because the doctrine of economies of scale is subject to more qualifications than has generally been understood - qualifications the recognition of which raises questions about the desirability of the effects of economies of scale). How would bird-safe glass work? Would it use differences between birds' and humans' light perception in some way? Somehow I'd expect corporations to love the idea of bird-safe glass being indistinguishable from common clear float glass by the naked eye, as enforcement of legislation in that regard would set up yet another corporate-friendly burden-of-proof regime. I would suspect that birds fly into window panes mainly in a small number of situations. The glass is too transparent, especially in the sense of their being too few glazing bars; or the glass is too reflective, forming a mirror that reflects open sky until it's too late for the bird to react; or the glass is in a place where it ought not to be, e.g. a quarter-mile up in the air. Small-pane windows make sense because the plant required to make small panes is more easily accessible to a smaller operation. Likewise clear float/drawn/spun glass makes sense because there are centuries of small-scale craft behind it: it's mom-and-poppable. And I'd say the tallest building (excepting specialized tower-structures) that can be effectively managed by the members of a household is about four or five storeys. By happy coincidence all this is also much better for birds. Far better for birds - and humans - to cease to be subject to that extraordinary situation in which it makes economic sense for large corporations to erect tall, shiny, crystalline buildings. Bird-safe glass, forsooth! 'New wind technology is in the works for a turbine which would pose much less risk to birds than the design implemented in wind farms today. 'Called an airborne wind turbine, the idea is to do away with the tower of a traditional wind turbine and instead use a helium-filled blimp which would enable the device to be raised much higher than is currently possible in order to capture the increased wind energy of higher altitudes. Because its height, the device could emit a bird-deterring sound too loud for use in lower turbines.' *sigh* I wonder how birds fare with traditional Dutch-style windmills, or even modern turbines in the 6-odd-metre size range. I'd think the lower operating speed of the former would offer some advantage in this regard. Regards Dawie Coetzee From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 7 January, 2011 22:23:17 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0106-morgan_bird_kills.html End of Days bird kill just a fraction of real death toll By Morgan Erickson-Davis, mongabay.com January 07, 2011 The sudden en-masse deaths of thousands of birds in the Southern U.S. on the night of New Year's Eve have created a frenzy of media attention, but in reality hardly compare to the massive number that die each year because of human activity. Shortly after midnight on January 1st, thousands of red-winged blackbirds fell from the sky in Beebe, Arkansas. Some were outright dead, others mortally wounded, all were found to have suffered severe injury through blunt-force trauma. While there has been speculation around a number of hypotheses including a climate change-driven weather phenomenon and even a fluctuation in the earth's magnetism, as usual the most obvious solution is the most likely: fireworks set off by people celebrating the holiday flushed the birds into the air where, unable to see, they collided with houses, trees, and each other. However, these deaths represent just a fraction of the true impact humans have on birdlife. There are many human-related causes of bird mortality including buildings, outdoor cats, pesticides, communication towers, automobiles, wind farms, and lead poisoning from spent ammunition and lost fishing tackle. said American Bird Conservancy Vice President, Mike Parr. But because most of the deaths from those sources often occur in ones or twos, they often go unnoticed or unreported. In total, says Parr, studies have estimated that up to one billion birds may be killed
Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
A nice study in educated derision, Dawie. Starting, I suppose, with the notion that a place such as San Francisco could be considered a local community. No doubt there are many functional local communities within it, but the thing itself is a city. Parr probably puts it correctly when he talks of policies - when cities look at policies they don't see the same thing as local communities see. I share your scepticism of economies-of-scale - just a doctrine indeed, and in whose bible? IMHO when economies of scale become operative, it's too big to serve anybody's best interests except the corporations' - not mom-and-poppable. Eg: Small family and part-time farms are at least as efficient as larger commercial operations. There is evidence of diseconomies of scale as farm size increases. -- Are Large Farms More Efficient? Professor Willis L. Peterson, University of Minnesota, 1997. Download (Acrobat file, 52kb): http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/13411/1/p97-02.pdf Colin Tudge also says that. So does the IAASTD report (International Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science and Technology for Development). So do lots of people, including me. Small farms http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html I also happen to think that birds, like just about everything else that really matters, are more important than corporate profits. All best Keith 'Bird-safe glass is also being developed for use in tall buildings. 'Bird-safe building glass is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream. said Parr. Its reality is on the horizon - we are close. The manufacturers are working with the scientists; they're working with us. And local communities are getting into the act as well, with more and more cities - such as San Francisco - looking at policies that implement bird-friendly construction,' Bird-safe glass indeed! Another engineered intrusion of mass-production into building construction, a field that has long proved resistant to it despite all the prevalent theories (Fuller's Dymaxion house came to naught because the doctrine of economies of scale is subject to more qualifications than has generally been understood - qualifications the recognition of which raises questions about the desirability of the effects of economies of scale). How would bird-safe glass work? Would it use differences between birds' and humans' light perception in some way? Somehow I'd expect corporations to love the idea of bird-safe glass being indistinguishable from common clear float glass by the naked eye, as enforcement of legislation in that regard would set up yet another corporate-friendly burden-of-proof regime. I would suspect that birds fly into window panes mainly in a small number of situations. The glass is too transparent, especially in the sense of their being too few glazing bars; or the glass is too reflective, forming a mirror that reflects open sky until it's too late for the bird to react; or the glass is in a place where it ought not to be, e.g. a quarter-mile up in the air. Small-pane windows make sense because the plant required to make small panes is more easily accessible to a smaller operation. Likewise clear float/drawn/spun glass makes sense because there are centuries of small-scale craft behind it: it's mom-and-poppable. And I'd say the tallest building (excepting specialized tower-structures) that can be effectively managed by the members of a household is about four or five storeys. By happy coincidence all this is also much better for birds. Far better for birds - and humans - to cease to be subject to that extraordinary situation in which it makes economic sense for large corporations to erect tall, shiny, crystalline buildings. Bird-safe glass, forsooth! 'New wind technology is in the works for a turbine which would pose much less risk to birds than the design implemented in wind farms today. 'Called an airborne wind turbine, the idea is to do away with the tower of a traditional wind turbine and instead use a helium-filled blimp which would enable the device to be raised much higher than is currently possible in order to capture the increased wind energy of higher altitudes. Because its height, the device could emit a bird-deterring sound too loud for use in lower turbines.' *sigh* I wonder how birds fare with traditional Dutch-style windmills, or even modern turbines in the 6-odd-metre size range. I'd think the lower operating speed of the former would offer some advantage in this regard. Regards Dawie Coetzee From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 7 January, 2011 22:23:17 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0106-morgan_bird_kills.html End of Days bird kill just a fraction of real death toll By Morgan Erickson-Davis, mongabay.com January 07, 2011 The sudden en-masse deaths of thousands of birds in the Southern U.S. on the night of New Year's
[Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
I signed the petition from Avaaz. I hope you will too. see info below. Joe Silently, billions of bees are dying off and our entire food chain is in danger. Bees don't just make honey, they are a giant, humble workforce, pollinating 90% of the plants we grow. Scientists increasingly blame one group of toxic pesticides for their rapid demise, and bee populations have soared in four European countries that have banned these p! roducts. But powerful chemical companies are lobbying hard to keep selling this poison. Our best chance to save bees now is to push the US and EU to join the ban -- their action is critical and will have a ripple effect on the rest of the world. We have no time to lose -- the debate is raging about what to do. This is not just about saving bumble bees, this is about our survival. Let's build a giant global buzz calling for the EU and US to outlaw these killer chemicals and save our bees and our food. Sign the emergency petition now and send it on to everyone and we'll deliver it to key decision makers: http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_bees/97.php?cl_tta_sign=f5178bbdb865c699796c0757009c00f7 Bees are vital to life on earth -- every year pollinating plants and crops with an estimated $40bn value, over one third of the food supply in many countries. With! out immediate action to save bees we could end up with no fruit, no vegetables, no nuts, no oils and no cotton. Recent years have seen a steep and disturbing global decline in bee populations -- some bee species are now extinct and others are at just 4% of their previous numbers. Scientists have been scrambling for answers. Some studies claim the decline may be due to a combination of factors including disease, habitat loss and toxic chemicals. But new leading independent research has produced strong evidence blaming neonicotinoid pesticides. France, Italy, Slovenia and even Germany, where the main manufacturer Bayer is based, have banned one of these bee killers. But, Bayer continues to export its poison across the world. This issue is now coming to the boil as major new studies have confirmed the scale of this problem. If we can get European and US decision-makers to take action, others will follow. It won't be easy. A leaked document shows that the US Environmental Protection Agency knew about the pesticide's dangers, but ignored them. The document says Bayer's highly toxic product is a major risk concern to non target insects [honey bees]. We need to make our voices heard to counter Bayer's very strong influence on policy makers and scientists in both the US and the EU where they fund the studies and sit on policy bodies. The real experts -- the beekeepers and farmers -- want these deadly pesticides prohibited until and unless we have solid, independent studies that show they are safe. Let's support them now. Sign the petition below, then forward this email: http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_bees/97.php?cl_tta_sign=f5178bbdb865c699796c0757009c00f7 We can no longer leave our delicate food chain in the hands of research run by the chemical companies and the regulators that are in their pockets. Banning this pesticide will move us closer to a world safe for ourselves and the other species we care about and depend on. With hope, Alex, Alice, Iain, David and all at Avaaz MORE INFORMATION Bee decline could be down to chemical cocktail interfering with brains http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/22/chemicals-bees-decline-major-study?INTCMP=SRCH Bee briefing http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=RXLEm9WXrHk%3Dtabid=439 http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=RXLEm9WXrHk%3Dtabid=439 $15 Billion Bee Murder Mystery Deepens http://www.businessinsider.com/colony-collapse-disorder-still-unsolved-lead-researcher-had-connections-to-bayer-2010-10 Nicotine Bees Population Restored With Neonicotinoids Ban http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/05/nicotine-bees-population-restored-with-neonicotinoids-ban.php EPA memo reveals concern that pesticide causes bee deaths http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=79910 Beekeepers want government to pull pesticide http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/beekeepers-want-government-to-pull-pesticide-1107701.html British Beekeepers' Association to stop endorsing bee-killing pesticides http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/16/beekeepers-end-pesticide-endorsement?INTCMP=SRCH Pesticide industry involvement in EU risk assessment puts survival of bees at stake http://www.corporateeurope.org/agribusiness/news/2010/11/16/pesticide-industry-future-bees -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110107/e6143478/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
Good on you Joe. There's also this (hotlinks in the online version): http://animals.change.org/blog/view/wikileaks_uncovers_government_bee_killing_conspiracy WikiLeaks Uncovers Government Bee Killing Conspiracy by Stephanie Feldstein December 16, 2010 While the WikiLeaks media frenzy may have been focused on the release of tens of thousands of classified military and U.S. State Department documents, it's a leaked Environmental Protection Agency document that has conservationists, environmentalists and beekeepers abuzz. The November 2nd memo, leaked to a Colorado beekeeper, indicates that the EPA was well-aware that the pesticide Clothianidin (a neonicotinoid) posed some serious risks to honey bees. There have been concerns about this chemical from as far back as 2003, and it's already been banned in Germany, France, Italy and Slovenia because of its toxicity. But the EPA chose to sweep all that under the rug to keep the pesticide on the market. Clothianidin, marketed as Poncho by Bayer, is widely used on corn, as well as canola, soy, sugar beets, sunflowers and wheat. As if the $262 million cash crop from last year wasn't enough, Bayer wants to keep expanding the pesticide's use. And the company's original registration was based on some seriously flawed science: they evaluated the wrong crop, with the wrong controls to assess the impact on bees. This all adds up to some serious questions about the government contributing to Colony Collapse Disorder as they knowingly allowed Bayer to poison bees. And this is about a lot more than honey production ... native habitats, and as much as one-third of America's food supply, rely on the pollination provided by bees. In light of the leaked memo, the National Honey Bee Advisory Board, American Beekeeping Federation, American Honey Producers Association, Beyond Pesticides, Pesticide Action Network North America, and Center for Biological Diversity sent a letter to the EPA requesting that the agency take urgent action to stop the use of this toxic chemical. The letter goes on to point out that this new information indicates an overuse of the Office of Pesticide Program's conditional registration program. This bee boondoggle represents a failure that could and should have been avoided. As a result, the coalition is calling for an immediate moratorium on these types of registration until the program is evaluated. There's still a lot we don't know about Colony Collapse Disorder and the massive bee die-offs it's been causing. One thing we do know is that bees are in trouble, and that's not good news for all the animals (and humans) who rely on the plants these important insects sustain. Join the call for the EPA to stop the sale of Poncho and conduct a thorough study into the pesticide's impact on wildlife. I signed the petition from Avaaz. I hope you will too. see info below. Joe Silently, billions of bees are dying off and our entire food chain is in danger. Bees don't just make honey, they are a giant, humble workforce, pollinating 90% of the plants we grow. Scientists increasingly blame one group of toxic pesticides for their rapid demise, and bee populations have soared in four European countries that have banned these p! roducts. But powerful chemical companies are lobbying hard to keep selling this poison. Our best chance to save bees now is to push the US and EU to join the ban -- their action is critical and will have a ripple effect on the rest of the world. We have no time to lose -- the debate is raging about what to do. This is not just about saving bumble bees, this is about our survival. Let's build a giant global buzz calling for the EU and US to outlaw these killer chemicals and save our bees and our food. Sign the emergency petition now and send it on to everyone and we'll deliver it to key decision makers: http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_bees/97.php?cl_tta_sign=f5178bbdb865c699796c0757009c00f7 Bees are vital to life on earth -- every year pollinating plants and crops with an estimated $40bn value, over one third of the food supply in many countries. With! out immediate action to save bees we could end up with no fruit, no vegetables, no nuts, no oils and no cotton. Recent years have seen a steep and disturbing global decline in bee populations -- some bee species are now extinct and others are at just 4% of their previous numbers. Scientists have been scrambling for answers. Some studies claim the decline may be due to a combination of factors including disease, habitat loss and toxic chemicals. But new leading independent research has produced strong evidence blaming neonicotinoid pesticides. France, Italy, Slovenia and even Germany, where the main manufacturer Bayer is based, have banned one of these bee killers. But, Bayer continues to export its poison across the world. This issue is now coming to the boil as major new studies have confirmed the scale of this problem. If we can get European
Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
... Not to mention this: http://www.alternet.org/story/149440/%27aflockalypse%27%3A_here%27s_why_we_should_really_be_concerned_about_the_huge_bird_and_fish_die-off?page=entire AlterNet / By Tara Lohan 'Aflockalypse': Here's Why We Should Really Be Concerned About the Huge Bird and Fish Die-off The massive death toll of dead birds and sea life should draw attention to the countless other species on the brink of extinction. January 7, 2011 By now, we've all seen the news reports of the Aflockalypse. The New Year came in with a bang in Beebe, Arkansas when thousands of blackbirds fell from the sky. As news reports of the eerie incident spread, similar stories began surfacing all over the world: Massive fish kills by the thousands in Brazil, New Zealand, the Arkansas River and the Chesapeake; more bird deaths in Louisiana, Kentucky and Sweden; and tens of thousands of dead crabs (aptly named dead devil crabs) washing ashore in the U.K. 2011 seems to have gotten off to an ominous start, but so far no one credible has come up with a theory to link all these occurrences together. They appear to be mostly isolated catastrophes. Sadly, this kind of stuff happens a fair bit, and in our uber-connected world, it's getting easier and easier to share when they do. Although I do admit that some of the purported explanations thus far sound kind of far-fetched. The 100 or so dead jackdaws in Sweden were explained by a veterinarian to a local news outlet: Our main theory is that the birds were scared away because of the fireworks and landed on the road, but couldn't fly away from the stress and were hit by a car. One car? Really? I can't imagine being the driver who kills 100 birds simultaneously. But the other incidents, perhaps, have better explanations that are largely due to either weather (cold snap) or environmental factors (fireworks, lightening, disease). As for Britain's crabs -- well, it turns out that this is the third year in a row it has happened, which may or may not be comforting, depending on how you look at things. The only upside to these die-offs has been the rapt attention of readers, which is great; however, no offense to jackdaws and dead devil crabs, but there are a whole lot of other species on the brink that could use the publicity. For starters, the World Wide Fund for Nature (also known in the U.S. as the World Wildlife Fund) just released its top 10 list of endangered species: the tiger, polar bear, Pacific walrus, Magellanic penguin, leatherback turtle, Atlantic bluefin tuna, mountain gorilla, monarch butterfly, Javan rhino and the giant panda are the unlucky finalists. While one night of fireworks revelry may have offed a few thousands birds this year, the creatures on WWF's list are teetering on the edge of extinction thanks to decades, and in some cases centuries, of hard work by humans. Loss of habitat and poaching may claim our remaining 3,200 wild tigers, 720 mountain gorillas and 60 Javan rhinos. Polar bears, Pacific walruses and Magellanic penguins are losing out to climate change. We're doing in leatherback turtles, which have managed to survive on this earth for 100 million years, thanks to overfishing (they're often killed as bycatch), and their habitat is endangered by rising sea levels and temperatures. Bluefin look like they will be eaten into extinction in the form of sushi. Treehugger reported that, A single bluefin tuna just sold at auction for a new record price of 32.49 million yen in Tokyo. That's nearly $400,000 for a single fish, which means there is a pretty big monetary incentive for fishing them until they are wiped off the planet. Monarch butterflies and giant pandas can hang on only so long as we can protect their vital habitat. And these 10 are only the tip of the iceberg. A recent infographic on Mother Nature Network reveals that in the last 500 years, 900 species of plants and animals have gone extinct and 10,000 more are close to making that list. We've done the most damage, however, in the last 100 years. Biologically rich Ecuador has the most to lose, with 2,211 endangered species, but the U.S. is a close second (1,203 endangered species). Honeybees aren't officially designated as endangered, but the population of these essential pollinators is falling thanks to colony collapse disorder. A recent leaked EPA memo implicates the pesticide clothianidin as a contributor to honeybee die-offs, although sadly the EPA has yet to curb the chemical's use in the U.S. Bumblebees aren't faring much better, as a recent report concludes that four common species in the U.S. have declined by a startling 97 percent. According to the Center for Ecology and Hydrology in the UK, three of the 25 British species of bumblebee are already extinct and half of the remainder have shown serious declines, often up to 70 percent, since around the 1970s, writes Sami Grover for Treehugger. Without these pollinators,
Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides
http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0106-morgan_bird_kills.html End of Days bird kill just a fraction of real death toll By Morgan Erickson-Davis, mongabay.com January 07, 2011 The sudden en-masse deaths of thousands of birds in the Southern U.S. on the night of New Year's Eve have created a frenzy of media attention, but in reality hardly compare to the massive number that die each year because of human activity. Shortly after midnight on January 1st, thousands of red-winged blackbirds fell from the sky in Beebe, Arkansas. Some were outright dead, others mortally wounded, all were found to have suffered severe injury through blunt-force trauma. While there has been speculation around a number of hypotheses including a climate change-driven weather phenomenon and even a fluctuation in the earth's magnetism, as usual the most obvious solution is the most likely: fireworks set off by people celebrating the holiday flushed the birds into the air where, unable to see, they collided with houses, trees, and each other. However, these deaths represent just a fraction of the true impact humans have on birdlife. There are many human-related causes of bird mortality including buildings, outdoor cats, pesticides, communication towers, automobiles, wind farms, and lead poisoning from spent ammunition and lost fishing tackle. said American Bird Conservancy Vice President, Mike Parr. But because most of the deaths from those sources often occur in ones or twos, they often go unnoticed or unreported. In total, says Parr, studies have estimated that up to one billion birds may be killed annually due to collisions with buildings. Another billion fall prey to domestic cats. Up to 50 million birds are killed each year after hitting communications towers, and pesticide poisoning has been linked to the deaths of up to 15 million birds each year. In addition to all these hazards, the increasing presence of wind turbines is a threat to many birds, especially when they're built in the path of migration routes. When you look at the totality of human-caused threats to birds, it has got to give cause for serious concern about our cumulative effects on their populations, Parr said. Strides have been taken in the development, implementation, and promotion of bird-safe technology. For instance, the prohibition or restriction of many pesticides most toxic to birds, such as carbofuran, fenthion, and ethyl parathion, has reduced bird mortality by as much as 75 percent. Bird-safe glass is also being developed for use in tall buildings. Bird-safe building glass is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream. said Parr. Its reality is on the horizon - we are close. The manufacturers are working with the scientists; they're working with us. And local communities are getting into the act as well, with more and more cities - such as San Francisco - looking at policies that implement bird-friendly construction, New wind technology is in the works for a turbine which would pose much less risk to birds than the design implemented in wind farms today. Called an airborne wind turbine, the idea is to do away with the tower of a traditional wind turbine and instead use a helium-filled blimp which would enable the device to be raised much higher than is currently possible in order to capture the increased wind energy of higher altitudes. Because its height, the device could emit a bird-deterring sound too loud for use in lower turbines. However, while airborne wind turbines are on the horizon, today's turbines are killing hundreds of thousands of birds every year. The Department of the Interior is currently considering imposing operational guidelines on wind farms which would lessen their risk to birds. Parr believes those guidelines should be mandatory. Voluntary guidelines don't work. he said. We wouldn't expect people to abide by voluntary drinking and driving limits. We can't expect the wind industry to follow voluntary environmental guidelines either. ... Not to mention this: http://www.alternet.org/story/149440/%27aflockalypse%27%3A_here%27s_why_we_should_really_be_concerned_about_the_huge_bird_and_fish_die-off?page=entire AlterNet / By Tara Lohan 'Aflockalypse': Here's Why We Should Really Be Concerned About the Huge Bird and Fish Die-off The massive death toll of dead birds and sea life should draw attention to the countless other species on the brink of extinction. January 7, 2011 By now, we've all seen the news reports of the Aflockalypse. The New Year came in with a bang in Beebe, Arkansas when thousands of blackbirds fell from the sky. As news reports of the eerie incident spread, similar stories began surfacing all over the world: Massive fish kills by the thousands in Brazil, New Zealand, the Arkansas River and the Chesapeake; more bird deaths in Louisiana, Kentucky and Sweden; and tens of thousands of dead crabs (aptly named dead devil crabs) washing ashore in the U.K. 2011 seems
[Biofuel] Help wanted for an animated political cartoon
Help wanted for an animated political cartoon I have written a script for a short video - estimated 5 to 10 minutes long, to be shown on YouTube and elsewhere on the Internet, tentatively entitled Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country. We need a cartoonist to draw the images and a technical person to create the movement using Adobe flash or other software, and to add the narration. Could be one person for both functions. The persons should be in basic agreement with the political ideas expressed in the script, which is available for a confidential reading upon request. Halfway decent pay. Write to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -- The Anti-Empire Report March 8th, 2010 by William Blum http://www.killinghope.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER
Hi Andres Thanks for your emailwell i used 900 ml of Soy oil, 180 ml of Methanol, 3.15g of NaOH..Temperatura was since 132.8 ºF to 122 ºF and 60 minutes of proccesing. I obtained: * 80 ml of glicerin layer * 1000 ml of methyl ester layer Then the 1000ml of methyl ester layer was washed by stir washing with 334 ml of water to 95 ºF, with this it formed 0.276 inches of soap layer between BD and water. This is my first test batch Fox was right: try KOH rather than NaOH. Go to the beginning, that's here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start And go down to Make your first test batch: Either potassium hydroxide (KOH) or sodium hydroxide (NaOH) can be used, but we recommend KOH, especially for beginners -- KOH is easier to use and it gives better results It's a 10-step process. Step 6 is settling after processing: ... After settling, carefully decant the top layer of biodiesel into a clean jar or PET bottle, taking care not to get any of the glycerine layer mixed up with the biodiesel. If you do, re-settle and try again. 7. Quality Proceed to the wash-test http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality and the methanol test http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#methtest to check the quality of your biodiesel. But you seem to have missed Step 7 and gone straight on to Step 8, Washing. Step 7 ends with this: Here's what to do if your test batch fails the tests. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#whatdo That's this: What should you do if your fuel doesn't pass the wash-test? The three main reasons test batches fail are failure to follow the instructions properly, inaccurate measurements, and poor-quality chemicals, in that order... Also: How to use the quality tests: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#howtotsts The Wash test section says: The biodiesel should separate from the water in half an hour or less, with amber (and cloudy) biodiesel on top and milky water below, and no more than a paper-thin white layer between the oil and water. So your test batch probably wouldn't have passed the test, but it's a good sign that it survived stir-washing without emulsifying, you're doing well! Why not go back to the beginning and start again? Step by step, include the quality tests this time. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER
Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after first washing of biodiesel, please? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080924/03342dd5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER
try KOH rather than NaOH. --- andres alejandro portilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after first washing of biodiesel, please? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080924/03342dd5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER
Andres, Is this a test wash from a 1 L test batch? That is the place to start. Tom - Original Message - From: andres alejandro portilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:31 AM Subject: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after first washing of biodiesel, please? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080924/03342dd5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER
hi Andres, Wrong question I'm afraid, Are U sure it's soap? And 0.276 inches doesn't tell us anything, 0.276 on what? 69 inches of BD, sounds good, on 0.69 inches of BD, sounds very bad. and is your container of a regular shape? Else inches don't mean a thing.what wrong with %volume. And please tell us more details: what oil did you use, was every thing dry before you started : oil, caustic and methanol? how did you wash, with what, etc ... Grts Bruno M. At 07:31 24/09/2008, andres alejandro portilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after first washing of biodiesel, please? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... = ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Help
Hi all, I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for calculating the power potential. For example, what amount of power in kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards, Bob. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070929/37d0d673/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help
Bob Molloy wrote: Hi all, I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for calculating the power potential. For example, what amount of power in kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards, Bob. Oh, I used to be REALLY into this sort of thing, but I can't be certain that my formula is correct. It's something like vertical fall in meters X liters per second X 10 = power in watts. That's what's springing to mind right now, but it's LATE and I really should be sleeping, not thinking about hydro power . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help
Rainbow power do micro-hydro generators. You need a good flow, fall: about 1 atmosphere pressure for every ~10M drop. But you need to take losses into account. A friend built a hydro using a 3 phase motor: think he got ~ 300W from it. He used the Rainbow impeller (that he actually got from the developer, before Rainbow sold it I think.) Try googling micro hydro systems. regards Doug On Saturday 29 September 2007 04:51:22 pm Bob Molloy wrote: Hi all, I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for calculating the power potential. For example, what amount of power in kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards, Bob. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070929/37d0d673/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help
You might be interested in this, regards tallex http://wildwaterpower.com/ ---Original Message--- From: doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help Sent: 29 Sep '07 07:13 Rainbow power do micro-hydro generators. You need a good flow, fall: about 1 atmosphere pressure for every ~10M drop. But you need to take losses into account. A friend built a hydro using a 3 phase motor: think he got ~ 300W from it. He used the Rainbow impeller (that he actually got from the developer, before Rainbow sold it I think.) Try googling micro hydro systems. regards Doug On Saturday 29 September 2007 04:51:22 pm Bob Molloy wrote: Hi all, I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for calculating the power potential. For example, what amount of power in kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards, Bob. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net News Blog http://blog.alternate-energy.net/index.php Next_Generation_Grid http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid Alternative_Energy_Politics http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics Tomorrow-energy http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help
If the flow is small and pressure is reasonable a trevithick piston hydraulic motor is simple and extremely efficient. AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might be interested in this, regards tallex http://wildwaterpower.com/ ---Original Message--- From: doug Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help Sent: 29 Sep '07 07:13 Rainbow power do micro-hydro generators. You need a good flow, fall: about 1 atmosphere pressure for every ~10M drop. But you need to take losses into account. A friend built a hydro using a 3 phase motor: think he got ~ 300W from it. He used the Rainbow impeller (that he actually got from the developer, before Rainbow sold it I think.) Try googling micro hydro systems. regards Doug On Saturday 29 September 2007 04:51:22 pm Bob Molloy wrote: Hi all, I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for calculating the power potential. For example, what amount of power in kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards, Bob. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net News Blog http://blog.alternate-energy.net/index.php Next_Generation_Grid http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid Alternative_Energy_Politics http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics Tomorrow-energy http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070929/e6f53d3d/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help
Flow (cubic feet per second) x Head (feet) x Efficiency (Approximately 80%) / 11.8 = KW per hour -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Molloy Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:51 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Help Hi all, I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for calculating the power potential. For example, what amount of power in kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards, Bob. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070929/37d0d673/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help
Hi guys, Michael, Doug, Kirk and Tallex, thanks for a stream of info on water power. Blown away by the response. Will be happily spending the next few days digesting. Regards, Bob. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 'Help Africa'
Hi Chip! I have a friend (drummer in our band) who is a hydrologist retired from the federal government (Cdn) . He is currently in Ghana building water wells at his own expense. This is his 3rd trip , I think and his daughter has been 2ce as well. All in all a very worthwhile effort I believe. I might have some pictures he sent us if you are interested... Tnx Robin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help Wanted
What is your question? - Original Message - From: Philip Gwinnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Help Wanted Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance on the technical front. All replies gratefully accepted. Best Regards, Philip Hainan Bioenergy _ Live Search: New search found http://get.live.com/search/overview ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Help Wanted
Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance on the technical front. All replies gratefully accepted. Best Regards, Philip Hainan Bioenergy _ Live Search: New search found http://get.live.com/search/overview ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help Wanted
wat kinda help u looking for?. On 2/7/07, Philip Gwinnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance on the technical front. All replies gratefully accepted. Best Regards, Philip Hainan Bioenergy _ Live Search: New search found http://get.live.com/search/overview ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi Mark, If your thermostat can take the full current of your heating element, you just wire it in series. The rod type thermostat found in most UK domestic immersion heaters will work just fine for this. The down side is they are usually made of brass. If you do decide to use washing machine elements, I would reccomend using two in a 75 litre processor, giving a total output of approx 5kw. Wire them on separate circuits, one through the thermostat and one with just a switch. Use two elements to heat the oil up to working temperature, then switch to just one for the processing. Well that is how I would do it anyway. Cheers Bob Oh yes, I am in Northants - Original Message - From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Bob Thanks for the offered help, I am at the moment trying to make a 75 litre processor.The stainless kettle element you bought for your first processor how did you rig up a therostat to it was it quite easy? P-S I am in Lancs are you any where near? Regards Mark From: Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:22:47 +0100 Hi Mark, How big is your processor? I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, bought from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine after a year. I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a home made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet. If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can Regards Bob - Original Message - From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hello Philip Hi, I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, How do you know there were no problems? Did you have your fuel tested for oxidation? See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#copperstudy And: Oxidation and polymerisation http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#oxid Best Keith although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also makes replacement easier. Philip - Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
hi mark i use 2500 kw heating elements that being used in home boilers they are very cheap not from Cooper i don't no whats it from .have two of them in a 150 liters reactor yet most of theprocess i use only 1 only in thebeginning when iheat the oil i use both of them to speed things up i change 1of theelements about 3 month ago (i burned it up in mistake)the other oneseams as new after 9 month in here it cost25-30 shekels which is more or less 3 paonds. works fine for 14 month already all the best Golan On 21/10/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello PhilipHi,I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, How do you know there were no problems? Did you have your fuel testedfor oxidation? See:http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#copperstudy And:Oxidation and polymerisationhttp://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#oxidBestKeithalthough a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbersmerchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it alsomakes replacement easier.Philip- Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with ProcessorkeithThanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but theyare a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody?Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi, I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also makes replacement easier. Philip - Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Thanks for your words Philip, I am going to try a washing machine one as sugested. I priced up a brand new stainless emersion heater 30 long yesturday it came out at £211.10 or for our friends over the pond $396.668 [US] A 24 one came out at £ 182.60 or $343.28 [US] Roll on the old washing machine there is a god after all !!! Mark From: philip reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also makes replacement easier. Philip - Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Bob Thanks for the offered help, I am at the moment trying to make a 75 litre processor.The stainless kettle element you bought for your first processor how did you rig up a therostat to it was it quite easy? P-S I am in Lancs are you any where near? Regards Mark From: Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:22:47 +0100 Hi Mark, How big is your processor? I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, bought from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine after a year. I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a home made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet. If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can Regards Bob - Original Message - From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hello, Others may disagree with me but I use copper heater and some piping in my processor for more then 1 year. My experience is that it resist to unwashed Biodiesel perfectly. Although in the wash-dry tank it is a different storry. There is a little corrosion - dillution of the copper elements where it is in contact with finished Biodiesel. I can say that you can use copper in the reactor, but try to avoid it in the wash and dry tanks. If you can not find stainless steel then use it but take a closer look at it each month. reg. ANdrew Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi Mark,How big a processor are you making? I have a local domestic electrical repair place that sell stainless heating elements from all sorts of stuff - washing machines, dishwashers, water heaters, etc. Some of the smaller ones are quite reasonably priced.Find your local repair place and drop in to see what they can do. Its always worth trying to strike a bargain on that old one that they have in the back that doesn't seem to fit anything useful! It's better to haggle in person, trust me!Good luck,Matt (near Rotherham, South Yorkshire)- Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, 19 October, 2006 8:47:59 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with ProcessorkeithThanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]MarkFrom: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with ProcessorDate: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? MarkHi MarkBrass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye soyou can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainlesssteel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in allcountries. Seek and ye shall find.HTH, good luck.Keith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/_Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi Mark, How big is your processor? I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, bought from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine after a year. I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a home made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet. If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can Regards Bob - Original Message - From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
what about electric water heater elements? you can get them in 120 and 240V models in america, and i think theyre stainless. not exactly what you are looking for, but they can be built into the holding tanks. (a little more work at the front end, but i think it would be worth it long term) Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/482 - Release Date: 10/18/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/482 - Release Date: 10/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Charles, I think an oil burner can tolerate impurities. The problem is that you may have to make some minor modifications. The problem I had, and, I think, you as well, was that we were burning inferior fuel w/o any modifications to the burner. I think that glycerides in the fuel (from incomplete reactions) at low temp and pressure can coke up nozzles and electrodes. I have a Beckett AF burner --- baseboard hot water for heat + the furnace (boiler) has a coil that supplies domestic hot water. I think any burner can burn BD. I don't think it has to be the high quality BD I use in my car, but lower quality fuel may require some adjustments.. I put a T in my fuel line, as you have said you plan to do be sure to use flare fittings rather than compression fittings. I've gone to all brass, heavy duty valves ... again flare fittings. I have a cartridge fuel filter in both the line from the main tank as well as in the line from the experimental (now 100% BD) tank. ***I ran about 1 foot (~30cm) of the copper tube from the BD tank up the pipe that carries hot water from the boiler to the circulator to heat my house. The copper tubing then runs down the same pipe back to the T in the line. I wrapped the tubing and pipe w. insulation. The water inside the pipe is 160 - 180F (71 - 82C). As long as my heat is on the BD is preheated passively. I put a pressure gauge on my pump and increased pressure from 100psi to 125psi. I changed from a 1.0 gallon/hour nozzle to a 0.75 gph nozzle. Make sure that air cannot get in the furnace/boiler through any openings use furnace cement if necessary. Ex: I could see light (from the flame) coming out bolt holes in my burner gasket sealed them shut. Don't seal inspection port you'll want to check flame and for smoke. I also had to decrease air flow. On my burner there are two adjustment bands. One is closed for 100% BD while the other is partly open. I installed a Webster Bio Pump (viton seals -- BD compatible). The pump on the burner worked fine all winter, but I had concerns about biodiesel causing the seal to eventually leak. Bio-Pump ~ $75 US; very easy to install on my burner (drop in). I recently made a batch of BD that failed the methanol quality test; about 75L (20 gal). It burned fine in the boiler with the above modifications (w/o the pre-heating). I have been experimenting with adding Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) to the BD in my heating system. They seemed to burn fine (~5% FFAs : 95%BD) until the warm weather came, my heating system was off, and the mix was no longer being pre-heated. I got some coking. My point is that for heating purposes you probably don't need high quality BD. You probably will have to make some minor adjustments to your system ... pre-heating the fuel and/or changing pressure/nozzles/air flow. Knowing how to test the quality of your fuel is still valuable. The methanol test is quick and cheap. That, along w. some tweaking of the process (increase temp a few degrees/ time by 15 minutes) you will improve fuel quality. It is possible to make BD that passes the quality test w/o any serious inconvenience or increased cost. In the mean time less than perfect fuel should work fine in the boiler. Best of luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom As a further aside- I am, of course, trying to make the best biodiesel i can, but what % of impurities (ie methanol test failure) did you burner put up with? I'm down to 10% with my 1l trial runs now as I tweak the process for my creamy canola. Charles On 22/06/2006, at 12:20 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I did as you plan to put a T in the line so I could have a small experimental tank, and gradually increased BD conc. Had no problem until about 50 - 60% BD. Some minor adjustments to the burner at that point. An interesting development: The shut off valves in the line apparently have a rubber or plastic seal. The valve from the large tank (30% biodiesel : 70% petro) is fine. The valve from the smaller tank (100% BD) is dripping. gives me something to do this morning. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on. I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go. Best Charles On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi Tom As a further aside- I am, of course, trying to make the best biodiesel i can, but what % of impurities (ie methanol test failure) did you burner put up with? I'm down to 10% with my 1l trial runs now as I tweak the process for my creamy canola. Charles On 22/06/2006, at 12:20 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I did as you plan to put a T in the line so I could have a small experimental tank, and gradually increased BD conc. Had no problem until about 50 - 60% BD. Some minor adjustments to the burner at that point. An interesting development: The shut off valves in the line apparently have a rubber or plastic seal. The valve from the large tank (30% biodiesel : 70% petro) is fine. The valve from the smaller tank (100% BD) is dripping. gives me something to do this morning. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on. I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go. Best Charles On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, Then creamy canola it is. It sounds as though you are getting a reaction . methanol test tells us it is not complete. Could be the KOH I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the seller (or the bag) said it was. Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of known purity? You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of known purity and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A comparison of the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity. I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated) 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the unknown. (Titration is inverse to concentration) 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known. Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L Unknown KOH titrates 3.6 g/L 1. 3.0 divided by 3.6 = 0.8 2. 0.8 X .85 = .708 Unknown = 70.8% KOH If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by 1.4 prior to step 1. You wrote: Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. Bottom layer: glycerine, I think Top layer: biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that precipitate out in the methanol test) Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration suggests you will get some soap, but I think 5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not using enough caustic. Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?) Be patient. Check the KOH. Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's water in it will spatter. Hang in there, Tom P.S. What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler? Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?) (Just curious) - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate? In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too). My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola is all I have to work with!! Best Charles On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or somewhat contaminated
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Charles, I did as you plan to put a T in the line so I could have a small experimental tank, and gradually increased BD conc. Had no problem until about 50 - 60% BD. Some minor adjustments to the burner at that point. An interesting development: The shut off valves in the line apparently have a rubber or plastic seal. The valve from the large tank (30% biodiesel : 70% petro) is fine. The valve from the smaller tank (100% BD) is dripping. gives me something to do this morning. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on. I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go. Best Charles On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, Then creamy canola it is. It sounds as though you are getting a reaction . methanol test tells us it is not complete. Could be the KOH I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the seller (or the bag) said it was. Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of known purity? You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of known purity and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A comparison of the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity. I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated) 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the unknown. (Titration is inverse to concentration) 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known. Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L Unknown KOH titrates 3.6 g/L 1. 3.0 divided by 3.6 = 0.8 2. 0.8 X .85 = .708 Unknown = 70.8% KOH If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by 1.4 prior to step 1. You wrote: Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. Bottom layer: glycerine, I think Top layer: biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that precipitate out in the methanol test) Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration suggests you will get some soap, but I think 5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not using enough caustic. Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?) Be patient. Check the KOH. Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's water in it will spatter. Hang in there, Tom P.S. What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler? Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?) (Just curious) - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate? In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too). My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola is all I have to work with!! Best Charles On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of achieving a complete reaction. i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests. I admit to being as perplexed as you Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you started using the creamy canola oil? (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Charles, Then creamy canola it is. It sounds as though you are getting a reaction . methanol test tells us it is not complete. Could be the KOH I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the seller (or the bag) said it was. Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of known purity? You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of known purity and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A comparison of the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity. I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated) 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the unknown. (Titration is inverse to concentration) 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known. Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L Unknown KOH titrates 3.6 g/L 1. 3.0 divided by 3.6 = 0.8 2. 0.8 X .85 = .708 Unknown = 70.8% KOH If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by 1.4 prior to step 1. You wrote: Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. Bottom layer: glycerine, I think Top layer: biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that precipitate out in the methanol test) Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration suggests you will get some soap, but I think 5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not using enough caustic. Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?) Be patient. Check the KOH. Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's water in it will spatter. Hang in there, Tom P.S. What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler? Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?) (Just curious) - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate? In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too). My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola is all I have to work with!! Best Charles On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of achieving a complete reaction. i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests. I admit to being as perplexed as you Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you started using the creamy canola oil? (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches). When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed into the oil by the impelled in a pump. Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn clear? You mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that the oil contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used remained liquid below 10C. How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the color of the biodiesel you made? I've made some very dark BD from very dark WVO. (see archives: Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed Oct 20/05) I couldn't see the split w/o very bright light. Let's just consider one or two things: 1. You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil and then WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and procedure. In fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you used a different WVO) 2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch: You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright light? Remove a sample from the top and a sample from the bottom. (Keep them separate.) Perform a wash test on each sample. Do
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi Tom Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on. I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go. Best Charles On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, Then creamy canola it is. It sounds as though you are getting a reaction . methanol test tells us it is not complete. Could be the KOH I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the seller (or the bag) said it was. Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of known purity? You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of known purity and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A comparison of the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity. I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated) 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the unknown. (Titration is inverse to concentration) 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known. Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L Unknown KOH titrates 3.6 g/L 1. 3.0 divided by 3.6 = 0.8 2. 0.8 X .85 = .708 Unknown = 70.8% KOH If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by 1.4 prior to step 1. You wrote: Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. Bottom layer: glycerine, I think Top layer: biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that precipitate out in the methanol test) Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration suggests you will get some soap, but I think 5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not using enough caustic. Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?) Be patient. Check the KOH. Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's water in it will spatter. Hang in there, Tom P.S. What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler? Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?) (Just curious) - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate? In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too). My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola is all I have to work with!! Best Charles On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of achieving a complete reaction. i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests. I admit to being as perplexed as you Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you started using the creamy canola oil? (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches). When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed into the oil by the impelled in a pump. Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn clear? You mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that the oil contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used remained liquid below 10C. How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the color of the biodiesel you made? I've made some very dark BD from very dark WVO. (see archives: Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed Oct 20/05) I couldn't see the split w/o very bright light. Let's just consider one or two things: 1. You have done several successful test batches using virgin
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Charles, I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of achieving a complete reaction. i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests. I admit to being as perplexed as you Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you started using the creamy canola oil? (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches). When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed into the oil by the impelled in a pump. Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn clear? You mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that the oil contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used remained liquid below 10C. How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the color of the biodiesel you made? I've made some very dark BD from very dark WVO. (see archives: Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed Oct 20/05) I couldn't see the split w/o very bright light. Let's just consider one or two things: 1. You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil and then WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and procedure. In fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you used a different WVO) 2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch: You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright light? Remove a sample from the top and a sample from the bottom. (Keep them separate.) Perform a wash test on each sample. Do the samples behave differently (from each other) when you perform a wash test on them? What did you get for a titration on the oil? If all else fails, you may have to go to other sources of WVO. You had success up to 40L. You got clear cut splits, BD that washed, and may well have passed quality tests. Before frustration overwhelms you it might be a good idea to go back to where you were successful. Scale up using the same WVO that you were successful with and perform quality test to fine tune your process. If this creamy canola still fascinates you, do some 1L. test batches with it. You mentioned New Zealand; winter on your doorstep. Gotta get you making heating fuel. I'm on the other side of the equator summer's heating up. Good luck, and let me know how it goes. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first time) so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I test if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 degrees, but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is very very dark brown, almost black!! Charles On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a goodly bit of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process ... increase time and or temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments, testing each batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary. I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up to 20 - 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches. When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I thought, I dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing time and then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to consistently make BD that passed the methanol solubility test and did not drop out additional glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product. The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) and is probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1 Clearwater pump. I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the fuel, but as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being used. Is my recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I recover, the BD passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little buggers show up in the methanol sol. test). Slow and methodical pays off. Best of luck. Let me know how it goes, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi Tom Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown bio. It passes the wash test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown bio on top. The bio also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test. So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate? In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too). My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola is all I have to work with!! Best Charles On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of achieving a complete reaction. i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests. I admit to being as perplexed as you Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you started using the creamy canola oil? (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches). When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed into the oil by the impelled in a pump. Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn clear? You mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that the oil contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used remained liquid below 10C. How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the color of the biodiesel you made? I've made some very dark BD from very dark WVO. (see archives: Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed Oct 20/05) I couldn't see the split w/o very bright light. Let's just consider one or two things: 1. You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil and then WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and procedure. In fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you used a different WVO) 2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch: You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright light? Remove a sample from the top and a sample from the bottom. (Keep them separate.) Perform a wash test on each sample. Do the samples behave differently (from each other) when you perform a wash test on them? What did you get for a titration on the oil? If all else fails, you may have to go to other sources of WVO. You had success up to 40L. You got clear cut splits, BD that washed, and may well have passed quality tests. Before frustration overwhelms you it might be a good idea to go back to where you were successful. Scale up using the same WVO that you were successful with and perform quality test to fine tune your process. If this creamy canola still fascinates you, do some 1L. test batches with it. You mentioned New Zealand; winter on your doorstep. Gotta get you making heating fuel. I'm on the other side of the equator summer's heating up. Good luck, and let me know how it goes. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first time) so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I test if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 degrees, but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is very very dark brown, almost black!! Charles On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a goodly bit of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process ... increase time and or temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments, testing each batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary. I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up to 20 - 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches. When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I thought, I dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing time and then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to consistently make BD
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi Tom Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first time) so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I test if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 degrees, but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is very very dark brown, almost black!! Charles On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a goodly bit of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process ... increase time and or temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments, testing each batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary. I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up to 20 - 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches. When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I thought, I dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing time and then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to consistently make BD that passed the methanol solubility test and did not drop out additional glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product. The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) and is probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1 Clearwater pump. I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the fuel, but as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being used. Is my recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I recover, the BD passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little buggers show up in the methanol sol. test). Slow and methodical pays off. Best of luck. Let me know how it goes, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Thanks for the reply I see your point- I scaled up from 40l (with a different processor) to 150l and I should have gone slower. I was just so keen to get going! My newly built pump and processor will handle 150l- but where do you think I should start? Should I scale right back to 50l and work up slowly or could I start at around 80l? Charles On 16/06/2006, at 12:44 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, Originally you wrote: I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well At what point did you start having problems? In other words how did you progress? (25L? 50L? etc.) leading up to 150L. I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests described at JTF (in addition to the wash test) as you scale up. Checking to see if the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: Quality Testing) is as easy as performing the wash test. Pass or fail, use the methanol from the test in your next batch. Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to tweak the process (volume of WVO, temp, time). The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L. Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at JTF, that I was NOT making quality fuel. My batches passed the wash test, but failed upon reprocessing (1L), and also failed the methanol solubility test. This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured into my into my heating oil tank --- roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I was away the burner failed to start. Fuel had leaked out onto the floor. The service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some crap on it sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes also had some coking. I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler, but may need preheating and pump pressure increased. I had to replace the nozzle twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only quality BD to the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o any modifications to the burner. I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water. At about 50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow. I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend. Best of luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:04 PM Subject: Re
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Charles, I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a goodly bit of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process ... increase time and or temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments, testing each batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary. I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up to 20 - 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches. When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I thought, I dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing time and then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to consistently make BD that passed the methanol solubility test and did not drop out additional glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product. The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) and is probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1 Clearwater pump. I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the fuel, but as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being used. Is my recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I recover, the BD passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little buggers show up in the methanol sol. test). Slow and methodical pays off. Best of luck. Let me know how it goes, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi Tom Thanks for the reply I see your point- I scaled up from 40l (with a different processor) to 150l and I should have gone slower. I was just so keen to get going! My newly built pump and processor will handle 150l- but where do you think I should start? Should I scale right back to 50l and work up slowly or could I start at around 80l? Charles On 16/06/2006, at 12:44 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, Originally you wrote: I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well At what point did you start having problems? In other words how did you progress? (25L? 50L? etc.) leading up to 150L. I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests described at JTF (in addition to the wash test) as you scale up. Checking to see if the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: Quality Testing) is as easy as performing the wash test. Pass or fail, use the methanol from the test in your next batch. Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to tweak the process (volume of WVO, temp, time). The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L. Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at JTF, that I was NOT making quality fuel. My batches passed the wash test, but failed upon reprocessing (1L), and also failed the methanol solubility test. This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured into my into my heating oil tank --- roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I was away the burner failed to start. Fuel had leaked out onto the floor. The service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some crap on it sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes also had some coking. I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler, but may need preheating and pump pressure increased. I had to replace the nozzle twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only quality BD to the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o any modifications to the burner. I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water. At about 50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow. I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend. Best of luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi again Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an insurmountable problem?! Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process, using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2 (which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark bio on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I have trawled the archives but I can't
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Charles, Originally you wrote: I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well At what point did you start having problems? In other words how did you progress? (25L? 50L? etc.) leading up to 150L. I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests described at JTF (in addition to the wash test) as you scale up. Checking to see if the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: Quality Testing) is as easy as performing the wash test. Pass or fail, use the methanol from the test in your next batch. Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to tweak the process (volume of WVO, temp, time). The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L. Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at JTF, that I was NOT making quality fuel. My batches passed the wash test, but failed upon reprocessing (1L), and also failed the methanol solubility test. This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured into my into my heating oil tank --- roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I was away the burner failed to start. Fuel had leaked out onto the floor. The service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some crap on it sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes also had some coking. I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler, but may need preheating and pump pressure increased. I had to replace the nozzle twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only quality BD to the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o any modifications to the burner. I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water. At about 50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow. I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend. Best of luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi again Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an insurmountable problem?! Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process, using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2 (which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark bio on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I have trawled the archives but I can't seem to find anything that will help. I realise that I have some incomplete reactions happening but I am confused by the continually different results. Charles On 13/06/2006, at 8:30 AM, Charles List wrote: Hi all I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum and have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy with my titrations and measurements but I realise that my temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my old spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting the mixture fall to 45degrees C before coming on again. My problem is this- my first batch came out very dark brown- almost black- but it passed the wash test, so, confused, I washed it, dried it and it was a very clear, dark brown. As it is now winter down here in NZ and the snow is falling, and I only had 50l of petro-diesel left in my boiler tank, I chucked 50l of my black biodiesel in. Against my better judgement, but I didn't know what to do! Almost immediately my boiler stopped, leaking black fuel on the floor. So- I drained my tank and tried a 1l batch test on the petro/bio mixture to see what would happen. I used 150ml methanol and 5.8g 85% KOH as my base amount on my test batch. Unfortunately nothing happened, 12 hours later, no separation, no split, no more glycerine! Has the petrodiesel stuffed it up? What can I do? Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi Tom Thanks for the reply I see your point- I scaled up from 40l (with a different processor) to 150l and I should have gone slower. I was just so keen to get going! My newly built pump and processor will handle 150l- but where do you think I should start? Should I scale right back to 50l and work up slowly or could I start at around 80l? Charles On 16/06/2006, at 12:44 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, Originally you wrote: I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well At what point did you start having problems? In other words how did you progress? (25L? 50L? etc.) leading up to 150L. I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests described at JTF (in addition to the wash test) as you scale up. Checking to see if the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: Quality Testing) is as easy as performing the wash test. Pass or fail, use the methanol from the test in your next batch. Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to tweak the process (volume of WVO, temp, time). The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L. Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at JTF, that I was NOT making quality fuel. My batches passed the wash test, but failed upon reprocessing (1L), and also failed the methanol solubility test. This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured into my into my heating oil tank --- roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I was away the burner failed to start. Fuel had leaked out onto the floor. The service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some crap on it sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes also had some coking. I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler, but may need preheating and pump pressure increased. I had to replace the nozzle twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only quality BD to the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o any modifications to the burner. I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water. At about 50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow. I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend. Best of luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed! Hi again Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an insurmountable problem?! Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process, using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2 (which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark bio on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I have trawled the archives but I can't seem to find anything that will help. I realise that I have some incomplete reactions happening but I am confused by the continually different results. Charles On 13/06/2006, at 8:30 AM, Charles List wrote: Hi all I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum and have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy with my titrations and measurements but I realise that my temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my old spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting the mixture fall to 45degrees C before coming on again. My problem is this- my first batch came out very dark brown- almost black- but it passed the wash test, so, confused, I washed it, dried it and it was a very clear, dark brown. As it is now winter down here in NZ and the snow is falling, and I only had 50l of petro-diesel left in my boiler tank, I chucked 50l of my black biodiesel in. Against my better judgement, but I didn't know what to do! Almost immediately my boiler stopped, leaking black fuel on the floor. So- I drained my tank and tried a 1l batch test on the petro/bio mixture to see what would happen. I used 150ml methanol and 5.8g 85% KOH as my base amount on my test batch. Unfortunately nothing
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi again Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an insurmountable problem?! Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process, using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2 (which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark bio on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I have trawled the archives but I can't seem to find anything that will help. I realise that I have some incomplete reactions happening but I am confused by the continually different results. Charles On 13/06/2006, at 8:30 AM, Charles List wrote: Hi all I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum and have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy with my titrations and measurements but I realise that my temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my old spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting the mixture fall to 45degrees C before coming on again. My problem is this- my first batch came out very dark brown- almost black- but it passed the wash test, so, confused, I washed it, dried it and it was a very clear, dark brown. As it is now winter down here in NZ and the snow is falling, and I only had 50l of petro-diesel left in my boiler tank, I chucked 50l of my black biodiesel in. Against my better judgement, but I didn't know what to do! Almost immediately my boiler stopped, leaking black fuel on the floor. So- I drained my tank and tried a 1l batch test on the petro/bio mixture to see what would happen. I used 150ml methanol and 5.8g 85% KOH as my base amount on my test batch. Unfortunately nothing happened, 12 hours later, no separation, no split, no more glycerine! Has the petrodiesel stuffed it up? What can I do? Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Actually, the web tools, web servers are one of Linux's strengths. Google is the largest network of Linux computers in the world. Servers, Internet are Linux domains. The desktop is currently its (perceived) weakness. The reality is completely different (ie Linux is great on the desktop: how many systems can have over 100 web pages open at once, still perform reasonably well, not ever crash.) I really abhor working on that other OS at work! regards Doug On Tuesday 13 June 2006 4:24, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Mike Weaver I know OSX is UNIX, but it took Apple four or five years after release for the tweaking to produce a really good OS. And I still don't use OSX, though I'm being forced in that direction, but who needs an entire software upgrade/replacement? I'll install OSX in the end and mostly run OS9 with it, for a long time to come I expect. From what I've seen of such things I wouldn't be too happy about entrusting the JtF site to a GoLive that's been tweaked for Linux, or not until it was as solid as say Mailman. Anyway, the original argument falls away, if OSX is UNIX anyway, then why use Linux? That human face is of a grown-up, not a kid, and whether it's UNIX or OS9 it saves me a a large amount of non-negotiable time. Either way I'd still have this current graphics conversion problem. Best Keith Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD. All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions. Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work, probably just a recompile... OSX is *nix with a human face Keith Addison wrote: Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. : this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Nemetschek which makes Vectorworks has a free viewer for engineering drawings you can view and print drawings but not edit them. www.nemetschek.net they are very Mac friendly. David Sikes - Original Message - From: Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Keith, I have to agree with you that Linux is possibly not yet for every desktop. I have used Linux for 6 years now. It has a tremendous support network (much better than its commercial competitors.) There are some jobs that are handled differently to the M$ product, unfortunately it is a learning curve. However, the problems I find moving from one version of M$ Word for instance, is no more than I find learning about a Linux package! I personally use Mepis Linux, which I find has everything most people require all on one CD. There are other distributions equally as good. The thing that has surprised me is that the myriad of Virii, Trojans, and other malicious software that seems to attack M$ products, has not rung alarm bells with the average consumer, and made them investigate alternatives. I think this will happen. I am already seeing friends who have no interest in computers, now firing up a live Linux distribution to browse on the web, and read emails. This tends to minimise the risk of a virus afflicting the M$ system living on the harddrive. Macs now use BSD as their operating system. BSD is similar to Linux (and to other Unix's.) Can any Mac users tell me if there are Mac viruses now? With the security of BSD I would doubt it. regards Doug (a linux die-hard) On Monday 12 June 2006 5:59, Keith Addison wrote: Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. : this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD. All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions. Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work, probably just a recompile... OSX is *nix with a human face Keith Addison wrote: Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Hi Mike Weaver I know OSX is UNIX, but it took Apple four or five years after release for the tweaking to produce a really good OS. And I still don't use OSX, though I'm being forced in that direction, but who needs an entire software upgrade/replacement? I'll install OSX in the end and mostly run OS9 with it, for a long time to come I expect. From what I've seen of such things I wouldn't be too happy about entrusting the JtF site to a GoLive that's been tweaked for Linux, or not until it was as solid as say Mailman. Anyway, the original argument falls away, if OSX is UNIX anyway, then why use Linux? That human face is of a grown-up, not a kid, and whether it's UNIX or OS9 it saves me a a large amount of non-negotiable time. Either way I'd still have this current graphics conversion problem. Best Keith Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD. All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions. Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work, probably just a recompile... OSX is *nix with a human face Keith Addison wrote: Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Hello Doug Keith, I have to agree with you that Linux is possibly not yet for every desktop. I have used Linux for 6 years now. It has a tremendous support network (much better than its commercial competitors.) There are some jobs that are handled differently to the M$ product, unfortunately it is a learning curve. However, the problems I find moving from one version of M$ Word for instance, is no more than I find learning about a Linux package! I can imagine. But I don't use that comparison, especially not since Word 6 allegedly for Mac. Word 5 was a good program but 6 was a mess, just a half-assed makeover of the Windoze version, everybody dumped it. Learning curve yes, but it wasn't worth learning. I personally use Mepis Linux, which I find has everything most people require all on one CD. There are other distributions equally as good. The thing that has surprised me is that the myriad of Virii, Trojans, and other malicious software that seems to attack M$ products, has not rung alarm bells with the average consumer, and made them investigate alternatives. Sixty million infected Windows computers and the owners haven't got a clue. But then a lot of them haven't figured out how to copy and paste yet, let alone what a patch is. Windows isn't intuitive, people don't learn by doing, and I think that might have done more harm than the viruses have. I think this will happen. I hope you're right. I am already seeing friends who have no interest in computers, now firing up a live Linux distribution to browse on the web, and read emails. This tends to minimise the risk of a virus afflicting the M$ system living on the harddrive. Macs now use BSD as their operating system. BSD is similar to Linux (and to other Unix's.) Hence my hope that they might learn to talk to each other at some stage. Can any Mac users tell me if there are Mac viruses now? With the security of BSD I would doubt it. Oh, there are, we keep hearing about it, only it's hard to find one. I haven't seen one for 15 years. I think if someone does actually manage to capture one and their existence is thus proved it should probably be put on the CITES list like the yeti. Mac viruses are supposed to come with MS macros, for Excel I think, maybe for Word too. Well, you can see how vague I am about it. regards Doug (a linux die-hard) Maybe I'll be joining you one of these days. All best Keith On Monday 12 June 2006 5:59, Keith Addison wrote: Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. : this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
[Biofuel] Help needed!
Hi all I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum and have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy with my titrations and measurements but I realise that my temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my old spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting the mixture fall to 45degrees C before coming on again. My problem is this- my first batch came out very dark brown- almost black- but it passed the wash test, so, confused, I washed it, dried it and it was a very clear, dark brown. As it is now winter down here in NZ and the snow is falling, and I only had 50l of petro-diesel left in my boiler tank, I chucked 50l of my black biodiesel in. Against my better judgement, but I didn't know what to do! Almost immediately my boiler stopped, leaking black fuel on the floor. So- I drained my tank and tried a 1l batch test on the petro/bio mixture to see what would happen. I used 150ml methanol and 5.8g 85% KOH as my base amount on my test batch. Unfortunately nothing happened, 12 hours later, no separation, no split, no more glycerine! Has the petrodiesel stuffed it up? What can I do? Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
It's getting hard to keep the old OS9 stuff running as they don't release anything new for it. I have some programs running in emulation mode - poky but works - the more memory the better. I run an old 400 mhz G4 w/ SCSI and 2 GB on the board. Not blazing but I like it. Ugly enough I have Windoze on a laptop - my business it's hard to make a living w/o knowing Windows. I use Linux for almost all my servers - only a few Windows2003 boxes and that's because the clients have programs that execute on the server. I'm very much headed into the open source movement - trying to use as much open source software as possible. I think Apple just did a better job of making *nix friendly than the Gnome or KDE interface. It's getting better, though. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: Hi Mike Weaver I know OSX is UNIX, but it took Apple four or five years after release for the tweaking to produce a really good OS. And I still don't use OSX, though I'm being forced in that direction, but who needs an entire software upgrade/replacement? I'll install OSX in the end and mostly run OS9 with it, for a long time to come I expect. From what I've seen of such things I wouldn't be too happy about entrusting the JtF site to a GoLive that's been tweaked for Linux, or not until it was as solid as say Mailman. Anyway, the original argument falls away, if OSX is UNIX anyway, then why use Linux? That human face is of a grown-up, not a kid, and whether it's UNIX or OS9 it saves me a a large amount of non-negotiable time. Either way I'd still have this current graphics conversion problem. Best Keith Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD. All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions. Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work, probably just a recompile... OSX is *nix with a human face Keith Addison wrote: Wotcha Weaver Linux. I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much better that it's worth the move. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
[Biofuel] Help with graphics
Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Keith, Send me a sample, I have an old version of visio somewhere, before I substituted if for smartdraw. I have a go and if smartdraw will take them, I can convert them to another format. Hakan At 10:38 11/06/2006, you wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Hi Hakan Keith, Send me a sample, I have an old version of visio somewhere, before I substituted if for smartdraw. I have a go and if smartdraw will take them, I can convert them to another format. Thankyou Hakan, if it's not too much trouble. It looks like something useful for us all. I'll send it now offlist. Regards Keith Hakan At 10:38 11/06/2006, you wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Linux. Keith Addison wrote: Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... :-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice. this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it. Thanks again, all best Keith Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help needed
Helo Keith! Thanks for your ansver.In these parts oil is usually sunflover or rapeseed or maybe a bit of soyabean oil. Keith Addison pravi: I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and here comes the problem.After usual processing the oil was red as if it woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem for oil self cleaning. Any idea,anyone? Thanks for answer. Hi Bruno What kind of oil is it? The red colour could have more to do with the oil than with the processing. If the wash test and methanol test are okay then the biodiesel should be okay too. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help needed
Hi Bruno, I also have managed to make red diesel using the foolproof method. The oil turned out to be GM soybean oil, very well used. it washed fine and the methanol test was fine. So I stuck it in the tank of my ford TransitFine So I would agree totally with Keith, if it washed ok and the methanol test was ok, then it most likely is good fuel.. Bob - Original Message - From: bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] help needed I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and here comes the problem.After usual processing the oil was red as if it woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem for oil self cleaning. Any idea,anyone? Thanks for answer. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help needed
Bob Carr pravi: Hi Bruno, I also have managed to make red diesel using the foolproof method. The oil turned out to be GM soybean oil, very well used. it washed fine and the methanol test was fine. So I stuck it in the tank of my ford TransitFine So I would agree totally with Keith, if it washed ok and the methanol test was ok, then it most likely is good fuel.. Bob - Original Message - From: "bruno" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] help needed I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and here comes the problem.After usual processing the oil was red as if it woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem for oil self cleaning. Any idea,anyone? Thanks for answer. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Thanks for the ansver.It took all my scares away: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] help needed
I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and here comes the problem.After usual processing the oil was red as if it woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem for oil self cleaning. Any idea,anyone? Thanks for answer. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help needed
I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and here comes the problem.After usual processing the oil was red as if it woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem for oil self cleaning. Any idea,anyone? Thanks for answer. Hi Bruno What kind of oil is it? The red colour could have more to do with the oil than with the processing. If the wash test and methanol test are okay then the biodiesel should be okay too. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP
hi guy thank you so much for the info it really helped, and about the web chemfinder, thats a very helpful site, i really appriciate tohave friends like you. thank you once more alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] HELP
hi guys i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you help me in this regard. thank you regards Alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP
Alex Mashego wrote: hi guys i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you help me in this regard. thank you regards Alex Alex, I just did a Google search for sulphuric acid and found several sites with the info you are looking for. I cut and pasted one listing below if you don't have access to the web. Glenn. Sulphuric Acid A molecule of Sulphuric Acid, H2SO4, consists of two atoms of hydrogen, one atom of sulphur and four atoms of oxygen Sulphuric acid is a colourless viscous corrosive oily liquid, which has * Melting Point : 10.3 degC * Boiling Point : 338 degC * Formula weight 98.08 * Specific gravity or density 1.94 * Flash point none Sulphuric acid is the strong acid produced by dissolving sulphur trioxide in water. SO3 + H2O == H2SO4 The Strength of Acids is determined by the degree to which they are ionised in aqueous solution. For example, Sulphuric Acid, H2SO4, which is a strong acid is fully dissociated, and all the displaceable hydrogen in the acid is present in solution as Hydrogen Ion, H(+). H2SO4 == H(+) + SO4 100% as H(+) In contrast, the weak acids ethanoic acid, CH3COOH, is partially ionised in solution, and only approximately 5% of the displaceable Hydrogen in the acid is present in solution as hydrogen ion, H(+). CH3COOH == H(+) + CH3COO(-) 5% as H(+) Properties of Sulphuric Acid * Sulphuric acid is a powerful protonating agent. * It is also a moderately strong oxidizing agent. * Sulphuric acid is also a powerful dehydrating agent and is used to remove a molecule of water from many organic compounds. * In dilute solution, sulphuric acid is a strong dibasic acid forming two series of salts. A Dibasic Acid has two acidic hydrogen atoms in its molecules which can be ionised. Sulphuric Acid, H2SO4, is a dibasic acid, because it contains two hydrogens atoms which ionise in aqueous solution to become Hydrogen Ions, H(+). H2SO4==2 H(+)+SO4(2 -) Sulphuric acid is an important industrial chemical and it has many uses as a strong oxidising agent and a powerful dehydrating agent. Commercially available sulphuric acid is as a 96-98% solution of the acid in water. It is a powerful protonating agent. It is also a powerful dehydrating agent and is used to remove a molecule of Water, HO2, from many organic compounds. The Dehydration Reactions of Alcohols results in their converted into an alkene, and involves the elimination of a molecule of water. Dehydration requires the presence of an acid and the application of heat. Preparation of Sulphuric Acid Combustion of Sulphur When a small amount of Sulphur, S, is kindled on a deflagrating spoon, it burns with a bright blue flame when introduced into a gas jar containing Oxygen, O2. A gas, Sulphur Dioxide, SO2, is the main product of the combustion. However, a little Sulphur Trioxide, SO3, is also formed, which makes the gas slightly cloudy. S + O2 ==SO2 Sulphur Dioxide 2S + 3O2 == 2SO3 Sulphur Trioxide When shaken with water, the products of combustion dissolve, forming an acidic solution which turns litmus red. SO2 + H2O == H2SO3 Sulphur Sulphurous Dioxide Acid SO2 + H2O == H2SO4 Sulphur Sulphuric TrioxideAcid Manufacture of Sulphuric Acid Sulphuric acid was manufactured by the lead-chamber process until the mid-1930s, but this process has now been replaced by the contact process, involving the catalytic oxidation of sulphur dioxide. Properties of Sulphuric Acid The Contact Process is used for manufacturing sulphuric acid and fuming sulphuric acid from sulphur dioxide, which is made by burning sulphur or by roasting sulphide ores and oxygen (in the form of air) which combine to form sulphur trioxide in the presence of a catalyst. The reaction is exothermic and the conditions are controlled to keep the temperature at 450 degC. The catalyst used is valadium oxide (V2O5). The sulphur trioxide is dissolved in sulphuric acid to form fuming sulphuric acid, this is called oleum. S(s)+ O2(g) == SO2(g) Sulphur Dioxide 2SO2(g) + O2(g) == 2SO3(g) Sulphur Trioxide SO3(g) + H2SO4(l)== H2S2O7(l)
Re: [Biofuel] HELP
try http:\\www.chemfinder.com From: Alex Mashego [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] HELP Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:32:48 +0200 hi guys i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you help me in this regard. thank you regards Alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP
Alex, Try Perry's Chemical Engineers Handbook, by Perry Green, in the reference section of the library. Mike McGinness Alex Mashego wrote: hi guys i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you help me in this regard. thank you regards Alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
You can make one too - just use a piece of wood and two screws - then pop the seal, and slooowly turn the bung... Chris Tan wrote: Thanks everyone. I probably need a bung plug wrench which I don't have an idea of. I 'll go research on the net. Thanks, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:49 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed. Do you have a bung plug wrench? Chris Tan wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
Chris, Good question and good thinking! Make sure it is cool, and not standing out in the sun building up pressure. If the drum is left outdoors in direct sunlight it can heat up and the internal pressure can get dangerously high. If the top is bowed outwards it may be under pressure, if the lid is concave or if you can flex the lid by putting your body weight on it (try pushing down on it with your hands) then it is probably OK, or at least not under a lot of pressure. If it is under pressure (just be safe and assume it is!) you need to loosen the bung (one of the threaded plugs on top) very slowly until you hear some gas venting. While you are loosening it stay out of the way just in case the plug blows out (usually straight up) from the internal pressure. The pressure will relieve itself through the loose threads. It may take a while (several minutes) to relieve all the pressure, just take it slow and easy. Be safe, Mike McGinness Chris Tan wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
Do you have a bung plug wrench? Chris Tan wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
Hey, everyone: I'll be bringing home my first drum of methanol (I've been buying it expensively in 5-gallon pails until now) in the next week or so. As I live where it gets--and stays--very hot (though the methanol will be stored in the shade, the temperature is well above 100F for most of the summer here), I was planning to vent the drum with a spring-assisted check valve. Any thoughts about why that would or wouldn't work? Thanks, Sean On 4/16/06, Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris,Good question and good thinking!Make sure it is cool, and not standing out in the sun building up pressure. Ifthe drum is left outdoors in direct sunlight it can heat up and the internalpressure can get dangerously high. If the top is bowed outwards it may be under pressure, if the lid is concave or if you can flex the lid by putting your bodyweight on it (try pushing down on it with your hands) then it is probably OK, orat least not under a lot of pressure.If it is under pressure (just be safe and assume it is!) you need to loosen the bung (one of the threaded plugs on top) very slowly until you hear some gasventing. While you are loosening it stay out of the way just in case the plugblows out (usually straight up) from the internal pressure. The pressure will relieve itself through the loose threads. It may take a while (several minutes)to relieve all the pressure, just take it slow and easy.Be safe,Mike McGinnessChris Tan wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
Thanks everyone. I probably need a bung plug wrench which I don't have an idea of. I 'll go research on the net. Thanks, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:49 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed. Do you have a bung plug wrench? Chris Tan wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
Chris, First, stay away from any open fire or very hot objects(particularly metals). Second, Open the small cap first slowly to allow the air pressure to equalize. and lastly open the big cap. As much as possible keep the caps on as moisture would easily accumulate in the methanol. Some companies use faucets attached to the heads and have the drums tilt, the get from the faucets minimizing moisture contact. Regards Ken Chua --- Chris Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help
Hey Bob; Thanks for the info. I assume this is for virgin oil. What do you suppose happens after the oil sits in a deep fryer for a few days at high temperature. I know the free fatty acid content increases and there is an obvious darkening and the inclusion of particulate matter. What do you suppose is the overall effect on density? As I posted previously I tried to measure it and got about 0.92 and this seems high according to your information especially since I was a few degrees above the 15 deg C temperature that the hydrometer (hygrometer? sp?) was calibrated for. Could this explain the discrepancy? Joe bob allen wrote: google canola density: http://www.canola-council.org/Chemical1-6/Chemical1-6_1.html The relative density of canola oil was first reported by Ackman and Eaton in 1977 and later confirmed by Vadke et al. (1988) and Lang et al. (1992). Noureddini et al. (1992) reported a density for high erucic acid rapeseed oil of 0.9073 g/cm3 while Appelqvist Ohlson (1972) reported a range from 0.906 g/cm3 to 0.914 g/cm3. Ackman and Eaton (1977) indicated that a different proportion of eicosenoic (C20:1) and C18 polyunsaturated acids could be a major factor for the increase in relative density of canola oil. The higher specific gravity of 0.9193 g/cm3 observed for soybean oil can be attributed to the higher content of linoleic acid (Ackman and Eaton, 1977). As for other liquids, the density of vegetable oils is temperature dependent and decreases in value when temperature increases R Heron wrote: Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer. Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate. Russel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help
Howdy Joe, Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; Thanks for the info. I assume this is for virgin oil. What do you suppose happens after the oil sits in a deep fryer for a few days at high temperature. I know the free fatty acid content increases and there is an obvious darkening and the inclusion of particulate matter. also you will get mono and diglycerides, and water, What do you suppose is the overall effect on density? anybody's guess, it is multicomponent mixture, and not even homogeneous. As I posted previously I tried to measure it and got about 0.92 and this seems high according to your information especially since I was a few degrees above the 15 deg C temperature that the hydrometer right (hygrometer? sp?) measures water vapor in air was calibrated for. Could this explain the discrepancy? Joe bob allen wrote: google canola density: http://www.canola-council.org/Chemical1-6/Chemical1-6_1.html The relative density of canola oil was first reported by Ackman and Eaton in 1977 and later confirmed by Vadke et al. (1988) and Lang et al. (1992). Noureddini et al. (1992) reported a density for high erucic acid rapeseed oil of 0.9073 g/cm3 while Appelqvist Ohlson (1972) reported a range from 0.906 g/cm3 to 0.914 g/cm3. Ackman and Eaton (1977) indicated that a different proportion of eicosenoic (C20:1) and C18 polyunsaturated acids could be a major factor for the increase in relative density of canola oil. The higher specific gravity of 0.9193 g/cm3 observed for soybean oil can be attributed to the higher content of linoleic acid (Ackman and Eaton, 1977). As for other liquids, the density of vegetable oils is temperature dependent and decreases in value when temperature increases R Heron wrote: Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer. Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate. Russel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] help
Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer. Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate. Russel BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Heron;Russel FN:Russel Heron EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20060207T204853Z END:VCARD ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help
Mine has a specific gravity of about 0.92 but I don't think I was at 15 degrees C when I measured it. Probably more like 18 deg. Joe R Heron wrote: Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer. Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate. Russel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help
Thanks Joe Theoretical is .914 to .917 at 20 deg.C so .92 at 18 deg. C is very close. Appreciate the help Russel - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] help Mine has a specific gravity of about 0.92 but I don't think I was at 15 degrees C when I measured it. Probably more like 18 deg.JoeR Heron wrote: Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer. Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate. Russel___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help
google canola density: http://www.canola-council.org/Chemical1-6/Chemical1-6_1.html The relative density of canola oil was first reported by Ackman and Eaton in 1977 and later confirmed by Vadke et al. (1988) and Lang et al. (1992). Noureddini et al. (1992) reported a density for high erucic acid rapeseed oil of 0.9073 g/cm3 while Appelqvist Ohlson (1972) reported a range from 0.906 g/cm3 to 0.914 g/cm3. Ackman and Eaton (1977) indicated that a different proportion of eicosenoic (C20:1) and C18 polyunsaturated acids could be a major factor for the increase in relative density of canola oil. The higher specific gravity of 0.9193 g/cm3 observed for soybean oil can be attributed to the higher content of linoleic acid (Ackman and Eaton, 1977). As for other liquids, the density of vegetable oils is temperature dependent and decreases in value when temperature increases R Heron wrote: Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer. Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate. Russel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help, my world is going nuke!
Hi Bob Hi Keith, Here in the clean and green where hydro, wind, thermal and tidal energy options are coming out of our ears the nuclear crazies have suddenly resurfaced. They look sane, they even wear suits and ties, carry laptops and talk in full sentences. Among other things they've launched a media campaign to rethink a New Zealand decision of many years ago to ban the use of nuclear energy, including the admission of nuclear-powered ships to our waters. So I noticed. :-( New Zealand's obviously after building a WMD, we'd better nuke them while there's still time, would that help? LOL! What's mainly brought the nuke lobby staggering zombie-like back into current affairs is the quaint idea that nuclear power is green because it doesn't use fossil fuels, no carbon emissions so it won't wreck the climate. Todd shot all that down here a while ago. They seek the construction of a nuclear power station, slap bang in an urban area in an island nine by seven housing more than half our population. Their bona fides are impeccable (top academics, energy consultants, corporate heads etc) and their arguments smoothly plausible. They will win eventually unless opposed with better and more persuasive argument. Years ago I fought a five-year campaign against a nuclear powerstation in South Africa and lost. I think that young feller Peter Ravenscroft was involved in that too. I wasn't in Cape Town at that time. That was before Chernobyl. Early 70s. The chickens of cost are only now coming coming home to roost for the South African idiocy. But they wanted their bomb, them and Israel and Taiwan. Shortly the aging plant near Cape Town - built on the coast of what was once described as the fairest Cape in all the earth - will have to be mothballed. Not just on the coast, on that particular stretch of coast at Melkbos yet, a special place. But I guess most of the Peninsula's a special place. Apart from the fact that such a process will suck up billions of dollars best used to eradicate poverty in a needy continent, it will when finally decommissioned remain forever a target for terrorism and an excrescence on the face of the planet. That's also a special place. During its lifetime it produced electricity at twice the cost of alternate fuels. It also provided weapons material for the regime. About par for their course, the true costs are hidden, the environmental and other costs externalised. I'd hate to see it happen again, here in what Kipling called last, loneliest and loveliest of lands. But I'm getting too long in the tooth now to do the research though I'm happy to fire the bullets. A disk crash wiped my archives, Shudder! Sorry about that. including some useful material you sent from JTF. Canst please repeat the favour or perhaps point me to suitable sources? Not easily. It wasn't from JTF, I believe it was onlist, but I didn't find it. I did a quick search and I found a lot of things, probably including what you're looking for, but no way to know. There's a large amount of good material on nuclear power in the list archives (including contributions from you), it's often been discussed. I think all the debunkings are there. If I wanted to research it that's where I'd start. But searching for nuclear won't do, there's too much material, you need better keywords. But I'm sure you have them. If anyone else has anything to add in terms of solid, well-sourced and dependable anti-nuclear energy background material I'd be most grateful. Try the archives. There are people here who know a lot about nuclear power, if you need more specific info I'm sure they'd help. Regards Keith Regards, Bob. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Help, my world is going nuke!
Hi Keith, Here in the clean and green where hydro, wind, thermal and tidal energy options are coming out of our ears the nuclear crazies have suddenly resurfaced. They look sane, they even wear suits and ties, carry laptops and talk in full sentences. Among other things they've launched a media campaign to rethink a New Zealand decision of many years ago to ban the use of nuclear energy, including the admission of nuclear-powered ships to our waters. They seek the construction of a nuclear power station, slap bang in an urban area in an island nine by seven housing more than half our population. Their bona fides are impeccable (top academics, energy consultants, corporate heads etc) and their arguments smoothly plausible. They will win eventually unless opposed with better and more persuasive argument. Years ago I fought a five-year campaign against a nuclear powerstation in South Africa and lost. That was before Chernobyl. The chickens of cost are only now coming coming home to roost for the South African idiocy. Shortly the aging plant near Cape Town - built on the coast of what was once described as the fairest Cape in all the earth - will have to be mothballed. Apart from the fact that such a process will suck up billions of dollars best used to eradicate poverty in a needy continent, it will when finally decommissioned remain forever a target for terrorism and an excrescence on the face of the planet. During its lifetime it produced electricity at twice the cost of alternate fuels. It also provided weapons material for the regime. I'd hate to see it happen again, here in what Kipling called last, loneliest and loveliest of lands. But I'm getting too long in the tooth now to do the research though I'm happy to fire the bullets. A disk crash wiped my archives, including some useful material you sent from JTF. Canst please repeat the favour or perhaps point me to suitable sources? If anyone else has anything to add in terms of solid, well-sourced and dependable anti-nuclear energy background material I'd be most grateful. Regards, Bob. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] help please
Greetings, I have been suffering from a life attack the last few weeks and unable to participate on the list. I do expect my power to go down tomorrow night and not be up for at least a week. Will someone please stop my emails from coming to my address for me? I know I am suppose to know how to do it, myself, but my brains quit working a few hours ago. Rita sure is a demanding visitor. We do have enough power for fridges and freezers, some gas for cooking and a safe building. I am getting exhausted by clearing room for all the animals to come inside for the duration of the storm. This was suppose to be a vacation week, the highlight of which was suppose to be seeing the Dali Lama in person. We tore the bathroom out last weekend to rebuild it this week as the plumbing had sprung a leak under the floor. I am babbling so I had better go to bed. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)
Hello there Keith and how are things? Listen I was wondering if maybe you might know of anybody in Yucca Valley,Ca or Palm Springs area that is involved in making their own bio-diesel. Like I have been saying I don't have the brain power to try this on my own but if there was such a person close to me I could get some help. Please see what you can do. Thanks and God Bless, Donald God Bless, Donald Lyon From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:54:01 +0900Hello Gary, welcome Hey Michael Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the best way to get started?Start here:"Where do I start?"http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#startKeep going.If you have problems, check the list archives and/or ask.Best wishesKeith Thanks Gary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400 Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama. I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for almost 3 years now. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject)I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)
Hello there Keith and how are things? Listen I was wondering if maybe you might know of anybody in Yucca Valley,Ca or Palm Springs area Me? I live in Japan. Anyway, you don't need anyone to hold your hand, most biodieselers didn't have, and very many of them had very much less information to work with than you do. Including me. that is involved in making their own bio-diesel. Like I have been saying I don't have the brain power to try this on my own Oh dear! Now there's a self-fulfilling prophecy if ever I heard one. You've said it so often you've convinced yourself. If you just know it's true you'll make it true even if it's not. And it certainly is not. Let's put it this way: if you have the capability to use your computer to find this mailing list, join it, and post a message to it, you have the capability to make biodiesel too, without killing yourself or blowing up the neighbourhood. Yes, it's that easy. Yes, there's a lot to learn, but you do it step by step, and you can be making fuel from the start. but if there was such a person close to me I could get some help. You can get help here and at the JtF website. You've already had help, but you're too frightened to jump in. And that is your only real problem, IMHO. Like I said before, Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Keep going. If you have difficulties, ask. Best wishes Keith Please see what you can do. Thanks and God Bless, Donald God Bless, Donald Lyon From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:54:01 +0900 Hello Gary, welcome Hey Michael Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the best way to get started? Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Keep going. If you have problems, check the list archives and/or ask. Best wishes Keith Thanks Gary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400 Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama. I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for almost 3 years now. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)
Hello Gary, welcome Hey Michael Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the best way to get started? Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Keep going. If you have problems, check the list archives and/or ask. Best wishes Keith Thanks Gary From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400 Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama. I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for almost 3 years now. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL, if anyone is available. Thanks, Hunter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help!
Greetings to you bio-fuelers, Greetings J., welcome, I am new to this list serve and signed up hoping to find some advice. I recently heard the end of the NPR (National Public Radio) program that featured Mike Pelly. The full sound file is linked from this previous message: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-June/000897.html [Biofuel] Mike Pelly on National Public Or: http://snipurl.com/g4b9 Through that program I became VERY interested in biodiesel. I have been doing some reading on the net and I now have some questions for you all. Here they are: 1) Where can I learn first hand the how to's in preparing SVO and Used Vegetable Oil as a diesel fuel to be used in a vehicle. Are there workshops out there somewhere? I live in NE Iowa. I have read the step-by-step directions on the net, but I would still like to witness this procedure so that I can feel comfortable with it. There are various workshops, you can probably find out about them here, some good some not so good. Most biodieselers learn on their own, most of them aren't chemists or engineers. When we started all we could find was 13 not very clear paragraphs on the Internet, and many others can say something similar. Now there's great information available, all you need to know and more, and forums like this one where more experienced people are happy to help you along. Just do it, do it right. 2) I would like to buy a small diesel-burning pick-up that gets good gas mileage and can burn SVO. Any suggestions? Stay away from Stanadyne or Lucas-CAV injector pumps. 3) Since I am not a mechanic, where can I get VERY CLEAR information on what needs to be done to my diesel vehicle so that it can burn SVO? Have a look at these recent messages, check the whole thread starting here: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-June/thread.html#750 Or: http://snipurl.com/g4bp Or here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg51618.html Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel The rest of the thread is linked at the end of the page. We're upgrading the SVO pages at the Journey to Forever website, it'll take a few days and there'll be more information then, meanwhile it's worth a look anyway: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever I would appreciate any help you could give me regarding my questions. Gratefully, J. Schwab ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Help!
Greetings to you bio-fuelers, I am new to this list serve and signed up hoping to find some advice. I recently heard the end of the NPR (National Public Radio) program that featured Mike Pelly. Through that program I became VERY interested in biodiesel. I have been doing some reading on the net and I now have some questions for you all. Here they are: 1) Where can I learn first hand the "how to's" in preparing SVO and Used Vegetable Oil as a diesel fuel to be used in a vehicle. Are there workshops out there somewhere? I live in NE Iowa. I have read the step-by-step directions on the net, but I would still like to witness this procedure so that I can feel comfortable with it. 2) I would like to buy a small diesel-burning pick-up that gets good gas mileage and can burn SVO. Any suggestions? 3) Since I am not a mechanic, where can I get VERY CLEAR information on what needs to be done to my diesel vehicle so that it can burn SVO? I would appreciate any help you could give me regarding my questions. Gratefully, J. Schwab ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Help needed - batch with clear 'soap'?
when I collected it. It had the highest titration I have found so far (4.7g/L NaOH); processed using 5 + 4.7 - 9.7g/L NaOH (methanol process). The result gave a very heavy/gel glycerine layer. The result that has been standing in air has formed some gelly-like, almost clear solid suspended in the BioD. I have just finished washing a 15L tester, and it seems to be coming up fine. A sample that I have left in the air for a day has formed an almost clear gel, retaining the shape of the beaker when I tip it. It is floating in what looks like 'normal' BioD. However - I want to understand what this is and the possible causes, and the ramifications of using the BioD. Hypotheses: --- 1) High water content in the source oil - hence this stuff is a form of soap (glop soap?) 2) Something I do not know about If it is soap, can I hope to remove it using washing alone? Once it starts congealing, is this washing likely to work? I am going to do some further experiments (ie. washing) to see what happens, but I would be grateful for the benefit of others experience dealing with this - new experience. This is my seventh 30L batch and the first time I have seen something like this. Thanks in anticipation. Can provide photos if that would help with the diagnosis. Cheers Don ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Help needed - batch with clear 'soap'?
I made a batch over the weekend from a source of oil that was semi-solid when I collected it. It had the highest titration I have found so far (4.7g/L NaOH); processed using 5 + 4.7 - 9.7g/L NaOH (methanol process). Why are you using 5gm as the basic amount? Well, we all know where that comes from - the world centre of bad information on biodiesel. Take no notice of it, it's junk, like very much else there. See: The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye3.5 This is the amount of lye (NaOH, sodium hydroxide) required as catalyst to transesterify 1 liter of virgin, uncooked oil. For used oils, titration determines the amount of lye needed to neutralize the Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content, and this quantity is added to the basic figure of 3.5 grams per liter. In fact 3.5 grams is an empirical measure -- an average. Different oils have slightly different requirements, and even the same type of oil varies according to how and where it's grown. Other estimates are 3.1 gm, 3.4 gm, and some people have set it as high as 5 gm. Here is what we've found. For most virgin oils and low-FFA used oils (with titration levels less than 2-3 ml), 3.5 grams works just fine. For high-FFA used oils, use more lye -- up to about 4.5 gm instead of 3.5 gm. Do small test batches to see what works best. Different oils also require different amounts of methanol -- see How much methanol? For oils and fats requiring more methanol -- coconut, palm kernel, as well as tallow, lard, butter -- again, use more lye, up to 4.5 gm, even with new oils, and especially when it's used. Once again, do small test batches first. A titration reading of 4.7ml is not that high (we've had 10.6ml! - and used it), you don't need to use so much lye. For the rest, can't really say because you don't provide any information on how you processed it. It seems you didn't dewater the oil. How did you mix the methoxide? How long did you agitate it, and at what temperature? By the way, that the oil was semi-solid when you go it doesn't have much to do with the titration level. It could have been hydrogenated or accumulated a lot of lard or tallow in the cooking. The result gave a very heavy/gel glycerine layer. The result that has been standing in air has formed some gelly-like, almost clear solid suspended in the BioD. Have you tried heating it? What happens? Animal fat biodiesel can gel at 10-15 deg C (50-60F). If that's what it is, it should wash okay, if you made it properly. Nothing wrong with the fuel, just keep it for the warm weather. Best wishes Keith I have just finished washing a 15L tester, and it seems to be coming up fine. A sample that I have left in the air for a day has formed an almost clear gel, retaining the shape of the beaker when I tip it. It is floating in what looks like 'normal' BioD. However - I want to understand what this is and the possible causes, and the ramifications of using the BioD. Hypotheses: --- 1) High water content in the source oil - hence this stuff is a form of soap (glop soap?) 2) Something I do not know about If it is soap, can I hope to remove it using washing alone? Once it starts congealing, is this washing likely to work? I am going to do some further experiments (ie. washing) to see what happens, but I would be grateful for the benefit of others experience dealing with this - new experience. This is my seventh 30L batch and the first time I have seen something like this. Thanks in anticipation. Can provide photos if that would help with the diagnosis. Cheers Don ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Help a greenhorn
Guys, I am very green in making biodiesel. I am trying to put together the parts that I need to make it. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Familiarise yourself with the process first by making small test batches before you start thinking of building processors. I would like to know: 1) what filter if available I should use to separate the water from the WVO ? Don't use a filter. See: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. 2) what type of pH meter should I use to determine the pH before and after the wash ? Get the best one you can afford, pocket or handheld. Try eBay, if you like, but I wouldn't buy a used one. pH testing http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#pH pH meters are also better for titration than phenolpthalein (don't use phenol red) and test papers, in my experience. You have to learn how to use it, how to calibrate it, and how to look after it. There are good FAQs linked at the pH url above. Good luck! Keith Thanks, Paul ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
