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g a loosely or densely spaced row of objects,
exemplified by a tree_row. Other examples: a row of bollards, a row of
stepping stones to cross a waterway, a row of street lights.
- areas representing a surface loosely or densely covered with objects,
exemp
rn. Smaller than a shed and it's
> a kennel.
>
> And if it's on a farm, whatever size it is, it's completely filled with
> all sorts of random junk.
>
> Very roughly speaking, of course.
>
> --
> Paul
>
>
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nglish usage. For me, "station" (wrt transportation)
> means passengers, not goods.
>
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on waymarkedtrails.
What is a type=superroute needed for then?
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 7 mei 2018 om 23:48 heeft Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> Even local hiking routes can have variations in starting and stopping places
> as well as route vari
Road level sounds to me like how high it is. Or on which level in a complex
crossing with fly-overs and stuff.
Beside that, would it be a problem to add a key for generic road
classification while still keeping the old values? Users could use the
generic classification by preference, and default
n Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>
> a écrit :
>>
>> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I map everything as long as it’s waymarked. If a variant is waymarked
>>> and named, it belongs to the rout
points (e.g. at a border), that's not correct is it?
2018-05-08 8:04 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>:
> We have trails with their own names, serving as part of a larger
> (branched) trail with another name. The parts may have different operators.
> Alternative sec
tagged as
information point, that's ok I think.
If so, it probably would not hurt to remove the tags, correct the dutch
documentation and maybe suggest using a role instead?
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that doesn't know the role start.
2018-05-11 11:33 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com>:
> 2018-05-11 11:22 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Well, in a roundtrip there are often multiple designated starting points
>> with a parkin
can I
find the thematical documentation?
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s://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yTU
>
>
>
> So my question is, is this type of tagging actually supported by data
> consumers, or are these 9000 tagging errors?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thorsten
>
> ___
> T
?
2018-05-25 13:43 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
> On 25 May 2018 at 06:48, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What is the use of the key:roundtrip?
> > Explanations just say
> >> roundtrip=yes/no(optional) Use roundtrip=
ould
> also be used to indicate that there is a single roundtrip ticket such as a
> park-and-ride bus or river cruise that returns you to your original
> destination in one journey.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
rpret roundtrip as “you can get from a stop to another stop that’s *
>> *before** it in the list of stops by simply remaining in the vehicle”.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can have routes where the start and stop are the same location, but
>> this is not true (as the v
differs from the
location-based definition.
I see a consistency problem here... which explains why the actual use of
this tag is also inconsistent.
2018-05-25 11:58 GMT+02:00 Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:48 AM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.
I've looked up the Circle Line in London. It is not circular in any way!
2018-05-25 14:00 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>:
> I think circular is used to indicate that the vehicle in the end returns
> at the same point. I don't think the actual shape of the route
> this is not true (as the vehicle always goes on to serve another route
> after arriving at the last stop).
>
>
>
> *From:* Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, 25 May 2018 15:48
> *To:* Tagging list OSM <tagging@openstreetmap.org>
woud the roundtrip tag help you with that?
2018-05-25 12:51 GMT+02:00 Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In that case it is a service-thing rather than a route-th
enstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>
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8-05-25 13:43 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
> On 25 May 2018 at 06:48, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What is the use of the key:roundtrip?
> > Explanations just say
> >> roundtrip=yes/no(optional) Use roundtrip=no to i
usefulness, though I
>> confess to having used it on occasion.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/05/18 15:48, Peter Elderson wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the use of the key:roundtr
It's an example. But we are not alone...
2018-05-25 12:33 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com>:
> 2018-05-25 12:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>:
>
>> How would that be applicable in Nederland, where PT uses one type of
>> chipca
, or a geographical non-roundtrip tagged as roundtrip=yes, for
whatever reason. It would be nice to know the reason, of course. For my
part, "everybody/nobody here calls this a circular line" is reason enough.
Could we agree on that too?
If so, all that remains is add this to the wiki.
--
V
t; "route:circular=yes". (There are "only" 25000 in the OSM data, so it might
> be manageable.) I don't like "circular=yes" because it's so vague.
> (example: building=silo circular=yes ?)
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 1:23 PM, Peter Elderso
GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
> On 25/05/18 21:31, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> It's an example. But we are not alone...
>
>
> Same in Sydney Australia - billed on entry and exit points .. not on how
> long you have been inside the transport system sy
e?
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2018-05-26 12:10 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>:
>
>> I would like to wrap this up, without a formal proposal process, if there
>> is no fundamental objection.
>> Afterwards, I will announce it in the Dutch community an
T+02:00 marc marc <marc_marc_...@hotmail.com>:
> Le 26. 05. 18 à 12:10, Peter Elderson a écrit :
> > the correct meaning
>
> considering the great diversity of interpretation of this tag,
> what is in your opinion the correct meaning?
> when should roundtrip changed
s
ways which are included in the route relation. But even then, what is the
purpose?
Allowing apps to select only "official" roundtrips? Is that a valid reason
for tagging?
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-06-06 14:37 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :
> On 06/06/2018 11:48, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> This issue has a long history... seems to me tagging awaits rendering, and
> rendering awaits tagging. In such cases, you need a commitment from both
> sides, with enough support to fuel trust.
ystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2548
>
> * not rendered elsewhere
> * not enough instances
> * what's the difference with landuse
>
> are some of the arguments I've seen.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Peter Elderson
> wrote:
> > This issue has a long histo
,
but wouldn't it be better to engage earlier and get a commitment and lay
out a road map?
2018-06-06 11:58 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 5. Jun 2018, at 10:02, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> E.g. replace landuse=village_green with landuse=decorative (defaut
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one that is
> forestry .. just with the trees harvested and gone, they'll be back.
>
>
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the pressure.
2018-06-08 16:35 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :
> On Friday 08 June 2018, Peter Elderson wrote:
> > > Historically absolute use numbers have not been a significant
> > > criterion for decisions in the standard style if to render a
> > > certain tag. Tags have bee
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se=forest"
>
>
> Main problem is that many do not consider current usage of landuse=forest
> to be a misuse.
>
>
> It is just how this extremely popular tag is used.
>
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vements are possible but not when it starts from "deprecate
> landuse=forest because it is not used to tag land use".
>
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documented on the wiki pages?
2018-06-08 12:40 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :
> On Friday 08 June 2018, Peter Elderson wrote:
> > > ... those who desire a strong hand and an authorative top
> >
> > down tagging system - by derailing the community processes
> >
&
18-06-08 13:55 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :
> On Friday 08 June 2018, Peter Elderson wrote:
> > Agreed, but on this list discussion is in order, right? And here I
> > didn't see anyone "desiring an authorative top down tagging system -
> > derailing the community pr
things.
>
> One of the main problems is inertia.
>
> Some tags have so much 'use' (I prefer the term 'misuse' in some cases..
> well all the ones I'd change if I were dictator)
> that convincing most that they need to change gets very hard.
>
>
>
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time than complaining).
>
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Andy Townsend :
> On 08/06/2018 16:03, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
>>
>> In this case, rendering is crucial so any documentation would need to
>> address that.
>>
>
> To echo what other people have suggested, you are entirely free to set up
> a rendering* of wh
istent is not one of this cases.
>>
>>
>> Improvements are possible but not when it starts from "deprecate
>> landuse=forest because it is not used to tag land use".
>>
>> ___
&g
hinks that the database is way more scattered than it
>> needs to be, and this makes tool development harder to make complete,
>> thus weakening the ecosystem when each tool supports a slightly
>> different set of tags.
>>
>>
>
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is natural or not.
>
> Now, for tree covered areas I use:
>
> natural=wood
> landcover=trees
>
> I feel that the natural=wood is tagging for the renderer but I do it
> anyway. And I feel that landcover=trees is a more accurate description of
> what is
used land has landuse. E.g. on antarctica (or in deserts) you will not
> have any use for most of the land.
>
>
>
>
>> And landuse=grass doesn't make any sense at all. I'm not aware of any
>> place where "grass" would be an appropiate land*use*.
>>
>
&g
; >
> >
> > No, you cant. As there are conflicting tagging methods
>
> If everything was "properly" mapped with those 3 tags I could come up
> with an algorithm. Not with the current mess of course.
>
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al=wood, landuse=forest, landcover=trees are effectively synonymous.
>
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Forest for details.
>
>
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&
t; https://pictures.immobilienscout24.de/listings/1ddb81ae-d508-4159-ba88-
> 7d0dda53e696-1130797434.jpg/ORIG/resize/1024x768%3E/format/jpg/quality/80
>
>
> This may qualify, though it is debatable.
>
>
> Overall, I think that this situatio
used it for
> landcover purpose have mapped for the renderer imho. Others followed
> and now people state it is a landcover tag.
>
> m.
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1:23 GMT+02:00 Colin Smale :
> On 2018-06-15 08:28, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> Speed is limited to 15 Kmph (living_street rules).
>
>
> Peter, have you got a source for this 15kph maxspeed (wegenverkeerswet)
> for an uitrit that is not a living street? It may be sensible, gi
n_roU1i10R-RCah1eA!
> 2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>
> Also in Spain we have this traffic sign http://www.autoescuela.
> tv/ver_senyal-180-S-dosocho-Calle_residencial and you can see it at the
> start of every street of this kind.
>
> Salut i mapes
> yopaseopor
>
>
>
&
totally backwards compatible with all the
existing millions of uses. No worries there.
2018-06-08 0:11 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :
> On 07/06/18 23:00, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
>> I think landuse=forest should remain intact, for cases where forestry is
>> actually how the land is u
fic
regulation rules.
This also copies the situation with driveway-exits. Total chaos, if you
look closely, but hey, it works.
2018-06-15 9:55 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:32, Peter Elderson wrote:
> >
> > D
l driveway?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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of the joining road (where traffic
crosses the sidewalk) with an exiting or new highway tag, defining it as a
section which can be crossed (and routed) but has to give way to all, and
limits speed.
Any thoughts on this?
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is
limited to 15 Kmph (living_street rules).
2018-06-15 8:16 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:04, Peter Elderson wrote:
> >
> > "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway exit" is the
> i
nd give way! b. It's coming from
the right but it's an exit so move on!
We're looking for a simple way to indicate what's there without tagging all
the details and implications separately.
2018-06-15 8:42 GMT+02:00 :
> *From:* Peter Elderson
> *Sent:* Friday, 15 June 2018 16:29
> *
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viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
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to) you began, no matter where on the route you started.
2018-05-26 14:53 GMT+02:00 Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com>:
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> When applied to a route, I would leave out that it is the same vehicle,
e actually fits the
definition.
2018-05-26 15:58 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>:
> If I understand you correctly, in British English round trip is not about
> the route at all, it is about the journey, the service and practical
> arrangements. While American Engl
ne decides to do the same touring car route in her own car,
wouldn't you still call it a round trip?
2018-05-26 17:16 GMT+02:00 Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com>:
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:53 PM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Still thinking...
la16...@gmail.com>:
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I do a lot of one-day walking trips with groups... they actually fit
>> quite nicely with your descriptions. The route usually ends where it
>> starts. You h
eems like deliberately falsifying the data.
> If the bus has to back up, why would we want to hide it in the data?
>
> cheers,
> Martin
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Electrification will change that, mmw.
2018-05-29 9:52 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 29. May 2018, at 09:49, Peter Elderson wrote:
> >
> > Why would we want to document which side of the bus comes first? Just
> think of it a
ng the route
>> continuous it's indeed enough to repeat the ways. So maybe I better drop it.
>>
>> But if we're going to a add a role for hail_and_ride and editors need to
>> be adapted to accomodate this, we could include this role as well, while
>> we're at it.
>>
>
rse role and consumers would see
> no difference (as long as the reversing stub is included in the route,
> with or without a role). It's just a little
> less clear to mappers what is going on without that role.
>
> --
> Paul
>
>
>
ontinuous_route?
> looped_route?
>
>
>
> On 28/05/18 18:24, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> I think for waymarked circular trails the UK English meaning is not too
> far off. The waymarks and often available map/leaflet/booklet/description
> do indeed bring you back to the
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No need to tag the operator, it's just how it's collectively known here. In
fact nobody knows or cares who actually takes care of it, as long as it is kept
tidy by people in safety vests leaning on gardening gear and operating loud
chainsawlike machines. People feel that using all kinds of
Op ma 4 jun. 2018 om 23:30 schreef Paul Allen
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:11 PM, Peter Elderson
> wrote:
>
>> No need to tag the operator, it's just how it's collectively known here.
>> In fact nobody knows or cares who actually takes care of it, as long as it
>
s which are renewed every year, bushes, low trees which no-one would
dare to call a forest, and mixtures. Thy might be bushes one year, grass
with flowers next year, and cactus-fields next year because the mayor has
visited Mexico.
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it will be rendered by at least some.
>
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ice topic for
> workshop on SOTM :-)
>
> regards
>
>
> m
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Peter Elderson
> wrote:
> > landuse=village_green is used a lot. That works fine for grass-covered
> > areas, because it's rendered green, but it misinterprets the t
Providing a more consistent while still backwards compatible tagging scheme
for a feature is not the end of freedom. It just helps to answer the
all-time question: how is this done? with an answer that makes more sense.
Taggers will adopt it because it makes sense.
Op do 7 jun. 2018 12:33
nd up some
> way from your start point. It may well be possible to return by the same
> route, but that would mean covering twice the official distance.
>
>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jo <winfi...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 28 May 2018 15:13
>>>> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
>>>> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ta
Or are we making provision for fully autonomous driverless buses, relying
> on OSM for guidance to find their correct stops? :-)
>
>
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Don't know the PT scheme, but if you want to route over different
transport methods, you'll have to connect the routes somehow.
2018-06-23 10:28 GMT+02:00 Jo :
> Op za 23 jun. 2018 om 10:26 schreef Peter Elderson :
>
>> I think a bus stop node on the bus route is exactly wh
check whatever I missed something.
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&
inets and are usually not located on the
>>> sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>>>
>>> I don't remember a discussion of this change, do you? If no, I propose
>>> to revert this change on the wiki.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
>>> ausgenommen)
>>> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>>>
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>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>
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>
>
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Vr gr Peter Elderson
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're pretty
> good about organizing things so as to be unambiguously obvious when you do
> and don't have the right of way in regards to nonmotorized traffic.
>
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:28 AM, Peter Elderson
> wrote:
>
>> The street is residential, but the exit is over a
for preference regarding name tags.
If I were a data user, again I would not try to do anything with substrings of
a free format string. Which is not the same as being against whatever people
may wish to put in it, just you don’t build anything on free format strings.
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op
/ to - because - is extremely common in names and
/ is not.
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 10 aug. 2018 om 18:24 heeft Paul Allen het volgende
> geschreven:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 4:23 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 10. Aug 2018, at 15:29, Paul Al
I am not trying to change any accepted local rule.
Mvg Peter Elderson
Op 11 aug. 2018 om 06:13 heeft Marc Gemis het volgende
geschreven:
>> I find it hard to understand why some mappers do not want to map reality.
>> Unless it's because they wish the street
>> signs were
is
not a bad idea, I think.
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 11 aug. 2018 om 01:14 heeft Jo het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> What if the street sign said:
>
> St Francis St.
>
> would you be putting that exactly as is in the name tag?
>
> I would put
>
> Saint
ng)
> > * spaced slashes: name=Le Rhin / Rhein (shared boundaries)
> >
> > Greater consistency would surely be advantageous?
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> __
tell it to show me
> name:en or name:el for whatever I need to see at the time. Rather then
> using hyphen, slash or space I propose we use this method for
> distinguishing different translations in our naming scheme
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
>
I am not sure. Once I get around to it I am sure I can find out by contacting
the right people. I think they are also registered as gravestones by the
funeral branche.
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 25 aug. 2018 om 18:05 heeft Andy Mabbett het
> volgende geschreven:
>
>> On Sat, 25
tool on
their website.
Basically, all we need is a list of GPS locations, right?
Op za 25 aug. 2018 om 19:38 schreef Peter Elderson :
> Done some more reading. Stolpersteine are not just metal plaques on some
> brick, they are actually stones placed in the pavement. A Stolperstein is
>
It would not be that hard to add a precision to a measurement. Any measurement.
Maybe there already is a standard method for that?
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 17 aug. 2018 om 20:50 heeft SelfishSeahorse
> het volgende geschreven:
>
>> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Christoph
Sure. But is there a standard method to indicate this uncertainty in OSM, which
can be processed by data consumers?
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 18 aug. 2018 om 01:35 heeft Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> What you are trying to refer to is 'measu
to data users. I’m
just saying that it would not be that hard to find a processable notation for
this, and simply asked if it already exists or has been proposed.
Agreeing on it is a different matter, especially in OSM circles.
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 18 aug. 2018 om 10:44 heeft Christoph Horm
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