Re: [Tagging] Beaches

[Steve Doerr]

Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote in 
message news:201004090234.51222.carti...@xs4all.nl...

 For everyone who has never seen the sea 

 Commonly a sandy beach consists of a dry part with loose sand above the 
 high
 tide line and a wet part with compact sand between the low and high tide
 lines. What the wiki is trying to say, is that you should map the dry 
 part.

Which doesn't seem like a very good idea. Surely the whole beach should be 
mapped.

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Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

[Steve Doerr]

pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote in 
message news:aanlktil1pa646nl5-5b3qefo00wzg1w8wiyxinfwi...@mail.gmail.com...



Some of the IRC discussion I had said that its 'ambiguous' though I
don't agree to the ambiguous property because even americans play for
FIFA where the F means Football


Spurious argument: the A also stands for 'Association'. In other words, the 
sport is described in FIFA's name as 'football association', i.e. (in 
English) 'association football'.


For myself, as a Brit, I have no objection to 'soccer', which was sometimes 
used for 'football' in my youth, and which now seems to be disparaged purely 
because it's perceived as American usage. But I do object to the equation of 
'football' with American football.


How about hierarchical tagging? E.g.:

sport=football
football=american|association|australian_rules|rugby_league|rugby_union

or even

sport=football
football=rugby
rugby=union|league

!

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Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

[Steve Doerr]

Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote in message 
news:aanlktik_jws7cgyh5h5zcrci-br8ylyma1dsaq6jz...@mail.gmail.com...
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Steve Doerr 
steve.do...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:


 Spurious argument: the A also stands for 'Association'. In other words, 
 the sport is described in FIFA's name as 'football association', i.e.

 (in English) 'association football'.





Are you sure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Association
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football


Fairly certain. To quote from the second article:

'Football is governed internationally by the Fédération Internationale de 
Football Association (International Federation of Association Football), 
commonly known by the acronym FIFA.'


See also: 'On distingue le football association du football rugby où l'usage 
des mains est autorisé (Ac. 1932).' 
(http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/visusel.exe?24;s=3977386470;r=2;nat=;sol=0;)


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[Tagging] Oil Spill Tagging

[Steve Doerr]

I see that the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico 
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/66538123) is tagged as:


hazard = oilspill
landuse = cemetery
name = oilspill

Is this correct tagging for such a feature, or should it be considered 
vandalism?


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Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

[Steve Doerr]

Perhaps we need a factory_outlet tag? This is just a particular case of a 
factory outlet. If the factory is tagged as a winery and the shop as a 
factory outlet, the picture is complete.


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Re: [Tagging] tagging capitals

[Steve Doerr]

As well as the other anomalies noted in this thread, there is the county 
of Surrey in the United Kingdom, whose capital (i.e. 'county town') is, 
thanks to boundary changes, no longer actually in Surrey!


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Re: [Tagging] boundary=town, place=town

[Steve Doerr]

On 09/01/2011 00:48, John Smith wrote:


the
centre of the boundary and the centre of the boundary will rarely be
the same thing


?


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Re: [Tagging] Karting...

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/01/2011 14:03, John Smith wrote:

On 10 January 2011 23:52, Steve Bennettstevag...@gmail.com  wrote:

Definitely with a k. I actually tagged this sport recently, I took a


Did I really need to say british english? cart with a k is american english.


The whole concept is American, including the spelling. 'Kart' is short 
for 'go-kart'. The word 'go-cart' is listed in the OED with various 
meanings, the earliest being what we would now call a baby-walker. But 
none of the meanings there correponds to the modern 'go-kart', which the 
OED defines solely by reference to a quotation from The Times of 12 
February 1963: The name ‘go-kart’ was given to a miniature racing car, 
which consisted of a bare skeleton or chassis of small size mounted on 
four wheels and powered by a light two-stroke internal combustion 
engine, with the driver's seat a few inches from ground level.


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Re: [Tagging] historic tagging, obelisks

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/02/2011 20:22, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:


Can you please help me to find the right word for stuff that is added
later on top? (in German that would be something like Bekrönung or
Spitze): e.g.
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Obeliskenspitze.jpgfiletimestamp=20051003131029


Tricky. Looking through the translations of Spitze at leo.de, either 
apex or pinnacle might do.


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Re: [Tagging] Pls explain?

[Steve Doerr]

On 11/02/2011 12:40, Steve Bennett wrote:


And, slightly more seriously, man_made=MDF - what's that about?


MDF is medium-density fibreboard, so maybe they're tagging what the 
object is made of rather than what the object is?


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag pipestems (shared driveways)

[Steve Doerr]

On a side-note, this meaning of 'pipestem' seems to be completely 
unknown to the Oxford English Dictionary, despite the fact that they 
revised this whole section of the alphabet ('pi-mesic' to 'pleating') 
for an update released in June 2006. Perhaps someone should tell them 
about it?


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Re: [Tagging] etymology of street names

[Steve Doerr]

On 09/04/2011 15:30, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2011/4/8 Simone Saviolosimone.savi...@gmail.com:

Good idea, but not with etymology as the name. This is not the etymology;
that would be the philological origins of the word.


+1



Here we are talking
about a description of the person the place is named after, and especially
the reason why he deserved the honour.


+1

One possibility would be to use a tag like
name:wikipedia=language:article name (presetting name to a
wikipedia-tag-like-construction). Most important persons will have
their own wikipedia article.



-1.

It seems that the intention here is to record the words on the sign. 
Maybe the word eponymy would be appropriate?


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Re: [Tagging] [Spam?] JOSM wiki Potlatch2 In consistencesfishmonger vs. seafood

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/05/2011 12:19, M?rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2011/5/18j...@jfeldredge.com:

In American usage, seafood covers all aquatic-origin food, whether from fresh 
water, estuaries, or the ocean.


In the context of OSM I am more interested in the British usage.


The word was invented by the Americans in the early 19th century. The 
/OED/ has an amusing quote from 1935: A writer in the London /Daily 
Mail/ recently complained that an Englishman would find 'positively 
incomprehensible' the American words../sea-food/,..and /hired-girl/.


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Re: [Tagging] etymology of street names

[Steve Doerr]

On 31/05/2011 17:21, Pieren wrote:
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Simone Saviolo 
simone.savi...@gmail.com mailto:simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:



Good idea, but not with etymology as the name.


-1

You have to keep in mind, though, that this information is not
strictly part of the geographical characteristics of the way/place,


I would even say that it has nothing to do with a geographic database. 
OSM is NOT an encyclopedia. OSM is not a substitute of Wikipedia.


I think the intention was to record the specific words on the 
street-sign rather than general encyclopaedic information about the 
person who gave his name to the street. That could be legitimate for 
OSM, do you agree?


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Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?

[Steve Doerr]

On 04/07/2011 14:59, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com:




609 instances of shop=second_hand

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second_hand


my dictionary tells me that the correct writing is second hand so
second_hand seems correct.


The adjective 'second-hand' is derived from the phrase 'at second hand'. 
When a phrase consisting of two separate words is used adjectivally it 
is usual in English to join the words with a hyphen: 'second-hand goods' 
= 'goods obtained at second hand'. The OED explicitly recommends the 
hyphened version for adjectival uses, although not all its illustrative 
quotations conform.


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Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types

[Steve Doerr]

On 06/07/2011 23:24, Pieren wrote:

http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 
http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 


And this case, Cour Delepine entrance, Paris:


It certainly looks like doors. But if one knew that it led into a 'cour' 
(courtyard), one would call them gates (or a (double) gate).


The OED defines 'door' as:

' 1.

' a. A movable barrier of wood or other material, consisting either of 
one piece, or of several pieces framed together, usually turning on 
hinges or sliding in a groove, and serving to close or open a passage 
into a building, room, etc.'


The final 'etc.' leaves room for argument, but otherwise the definition 
suggests that the space on one side of the barrier must be inside a 
building for it to be considered a door.


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Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types

[Steve Doerr]

On 11/07/2011 17:03, SomeoneElse wrote:

On 11/07/2011 16:47, fly wrote:

There was a discussion on talk-de@ about it:
http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg85941.html



Thanks - I was wondering what visor=hedge meant!


I wonder if screen=hedge would be what they're looking for?

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint

[Steve Doerr]

accreditation_scheme?
accreditation_agency?
promoter?

On 17/07/2011 14:48, Zsolt Bertalan wrote:

I see. Is hiking campaign better?

On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 3:12 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com 
mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:


Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com
mailto:herrber...@gmail.com wrote:

 Because there is no difference. What is the difference between a
rugby
 match
 and a rugby union match? Nothing. Both of them are a rugby
match. But
 rugby
 union match is more specific.
 In this case we need the general term.
 There are TMs that are not routes. They consist of checkpoints that
 you can
 visit anytime, in any order from any dircetion. And there are
TMs like
 El
 Camino that consist of several routes.
 I think there are much more confusing terms in English than such a
 loan
 translation.

 And what about 'organised hiking tour'? That covers routes, walks,
 such
 movements with only checkpoints, etc., but doesn't sound good to
me as
 a
 tagging key. It is confusing in an other way, because it covers more
 than I
 need (hiking tours without checkpoints). Argh.

The problem is that, while English sometimes uses movement to mean
a group of people with a common goal, it does not, at present,
use movement to mean a series of actions to be taken to achieve
that goal.  So, an organization of hikers might be termed a
movement, but the routes along which they are encouraged to hike
would not be termed a movement.  After all, the hikers (and the
people organizing the hikers) are the ones moving in both the
physical and metaphorical senses.  The routes themselves take no
action.

This tag is more likely to be understood by English-speakers if
you use a less literal translation.
--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com
Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [Tagging] Sports_centre, gym, dojo

[Steve Doerr]

On 11/02/2012 12:52, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


- I would tag a gymnasium(sports hall) in a school as leisure=gymnasium


My school had a gym(nasium) and a sports hall. The latter was used for 
things like 5-a-side football, basketball, badminton (several courts 
side by side) and had virtually no windows to break. The gym had 
vaulting horses, wall bars, quoits, rubber mats, and one whole wall was 
glazed, so unsuitable for kicking balls around.



 - An outdoor gym as leisure=outdoor_gym




what is the difference to a pitch?


This is an outdoor gym: 
http://www.naturistfoundation.org/images/keep_fit_area.jpg


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Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

[Steve Doerr]

That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve 
obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on 
Wikipedia here: 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg.


S

On 14/05/2012 03:25, Clifford Snow wrote:



On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org 
mailto:o...@inbox.org wrote:


Please pardon the ignorant American question:

What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small
roundabout?  Is it based on who has the right of way?

Does anyone have an example of something like this in the US?  Or is
it safe to say that these don't exist here?


Here is an example in Seattle. http://g.co/maps/nvhfh  We have traffic 
calming islands all over the city.  According to state law, there is 
no legal requirement to go around the island to make a left turn so 
traffic direction shouldn't be shown.



--
Clifford

I have promised to cut down on my swearing and drinking, which I have. 
 Unfortunately, this has left me dim-witted and nearly speechless. 
Adapted from /The Lion/ by Nelson DeMille


-or-

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. 
 Albert Einstein




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Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

[Steve Doerr]

On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote:

On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote:

Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know 
whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely 
different tag when one or more approaches has right-of-way?


Penalties for routing?


Meaning? Would you assign more or less penalty to one where some 
entering traffic doesn't yield?


Do we have a way of representing priority at junctions generally? I've 
often thought we should, but I don't think I've ever seen such a thing.


Steve

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Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/05/2012 10:32, Volker Schmidt wrote:


 *

a roundabout is a road layout where traffic goes around a central
island. At present a roundabout needs to be drawn as a circular
way, not as a node.




Actually (and this has been inaccurate in the wiki from the year dot), a 
roundabout doesn't necessarily have a central island: elevated 
roundabouts just have a big hole in the middle.


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Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/05/2012 13:45, Volker Schmidt wrote:


We should replace island with island  or obstacle or something to 
that effect.


I've changed it to 'an island or a void'.

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Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

[Steve Doerr]

Thanks. I guess I edited an old version or something? Sorry about that.

On 18/05/2012 14:23, Martin Vonwald wrote:

I reverted to the previous version and added a note about void in case
of elevated roads.

2012/5/18 Martin Vonwaldimagic@gmail.com:

Ahm - you completely screwed the article :-S

2012/5/18 Steve Doerrdoerr.step...@gmail.com:

On 18/05/2012 13:45, Volker Schmidt wrote:


We should replace island with island  or obstacle or something to that
effect.


I've changed it to 'an island or a void'.

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Re: [Tagging] business closed for renovation - tagging best practice

[Steve Doerr]

Would this fit the bill: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/temporary ?


Steve

On 15/01/2013 00:17, dies38...@mypacks.net wrote:

There is a fast food franchise site which is closed for renovation in my 
vicinity.  Two questions:
* Would you support or recommend tagging a transient state like 'closed for 
renovation'?
* If one were to indicate temporary closure, how would one do this?  In the 
case of renovation, would one use a construction-related tag?

Thanks for your input ... or referral to conversations/info which you'd 
consider definitive. --ceyockey

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Re: [Tagging] Proposed relation give_way

[Steve Doerr]

I suppose the main downside is that it requires a relation. I've not 
mapped give-way relationships myself, but it would be good to map them, 
and the node method seems simpler and would involve less database bloat 
than adding a relation at, basically, every junction. I would think the 
node method would be sufficient for most junctions, while the relation 
method could be available for any more complex cases. As far as I can 
see, with the node method, the important thing to remember is that the 
give-way node needs to be closer to the intersection node to which it 
applies than to any other intersection node on the way, which doesn't 
seem too difficult to achieve. It should perhaps be made clear in the 
wiki that there is not necessarily an actual Give Way sign: it can be 
used to represent a give-way line as well.


Steve


On 14/03/2013 14:43, Simone Saviolo wrote:

Hi everyone!

I noticed that the proposal for a give_way type relationship [1] has 
been in draft for nine solid years. It seems a great solution to the 
current limitations of highway=give_way and highway=stop, also because 
it reuses a tagging scheme that is widely accepted both by mappers and 
by consumers for turn restrictions.


I suggest that discussion on this proposal be revived. It should 
undergo the regular voting process and finally become an approved 
relation type.


It may also be that it became a de facto standard in the meanwhile. 
Does somebody know of a router that uses this relation, possibly to 
provide navigation indications?


Regards,

Simone

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Give_way


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Re: [Tagging] place=neighbourhood

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/03/2013 01:46, André Pirard wrote:

So, I have sent them an e-mail, I made the requested comment 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:OSM_Inspector/Views/Places 
on the appropriate discussion page


I don't know why they've done it this way, but they've created a section 
within each wiki page itself entitled 'Discussion', and that's where 
they seem to want you to post your comments/requests - not the Talk page 
(confusingly called Discussion on the tab). So that would be here: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Inspector/Views/Places#Discussion.


Frederik Ramm (frede...@remote.org) and Jochen Topf (joc...@remote.org) 
sometimes post news about OSMI in OSM-Talk, so either that list, or 
those specific email addresses, might be another way to get their attention.


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Re: [Tagging] When was barrier=entrance abandoned ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 08/05/2013 22:01, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:




2013/5/8 Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com 
mailto:dudleyibb...@hotmail.com



I think that the status of abandoned should be removed.



+1, actually I just did it now.


The Polish version still says 'Abandoned' (in English). I think the 
Russian version says 'Unknown' (in Russian).


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Animal_breeding

[Steve Doerr]

On 16/06/2013 15:09, fly wrote:
 you still talk about species and later are mentioning dog/cat/horse 
which are genera.


'dog - A domesticated carnivorous mammal, Canis familiaris (or C. lupus 
familiaris)...'

'cat - A well-known carnivorous quadruped ( Felis domesticus) ...'
'horse -  A solid-hoofed perissodactyl quadruped ( Equus caballus)...'

(all definitions from Oxford English Dictionary).

They all look like species to me.

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Re: [Tagging] Through_route next steps

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/06/2013 16:45, News wrote:




You are correct, we are talking about unclassified and tertiary roads.
Although this problem also occurs on secondary, primary and trunk roads,
a classification is a measure of importance and not always quality. But
where did the turning lane come from? or even lanes in many cases?

Here is an example of why this tag is needed, and obviously support from
routers.

http://osrm.at/3Hs

This route misses two important left turn instructions, the instructions
should be
Turn left onto B5065 in both cases.

Here is the first junction http://goo.gl/maps/ouXTC

and the second, which is a very definite left turn, but easily missed as
routers assume you are continuing on the same road, without the
instruction anyone following instructions is likely to carry straight on
http://goo.gl/maps/DSDbt



Excellent examples Phil. I hope to redo this so may well use those



Both examples could probably be addressed by give_way nodes on the ways 
that are not the 'through route'?


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Re: [Tagging] type for natural=tree (leaved - leafed)

[Steve Doerr]

On 07/07/2013 17:33, fly wrote:

Hey

Could an BE-speaking person please tell me what the right spelling for
broad_leafed is.


The Oxford English Dictionary has broad-leaved as the headword, with 
broad-leafed as a variant form. The latest edition of the Shorter Oxford 
English Dictionary has only broadleaved (no hyphen). So neither is 
incorrect, but there is a distinct preference for the -ved form, and 
modern usage is to treat it as a single word, broadleaved.


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Re: [Tagging] Childcare Tag

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/07/2013 12:50, Serge Wroclawski wrote:

As for kindergarten, while the name may have an obvious German origin, 
my question is what the British definition of the word is, since it's 
British English that we use in OSM as our base language, and does that 
British definition differ from the US definition.


The term has never really caught on in Britain. We associate it mainly 
with America.


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Re: [Tagging] new tagging scheme for detailed information.

[Steve Doerr]

On 23/07/2013 17:33, amrit karmacharya wrote:


OT means operation theater, we will use the full form


Assuming this refers to the room in a hospital where surgical operations 
are carried out, then the normal English term is 'operating theatre'.


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Re: [Tagging] new tagging scheme for detailed information.

[Steve Doerr]

On 24/07/2013 06:56, amrit karmacharya wrote:

Here, it is commonly called operation theater and even the hospital 
have board written operation theater. As for operating theater, even i 
am hearing it called so for the first time.




I love the diversity of English as a world language!

Anyway, here's a Google Ngram:

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=operating+theatre%2C+operation+theatreyear_start=1800year_end=2013corpus=15smoothing=3share=

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Re: [Tagging] Proposal for new tag: landuse=plot

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/09/2013 12:04, Serge Wroclawski wrote:

I still have yet to find a definition of lot. Can someone point me 
to one that is unabigious, from Wikipedia or a dictionary? Wikipedia's 
definition of lot is the same as my own: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_lot (that is what comes up when you 
type land plot into wikipedia) And the term in usage: 
http://www.scoutingny.com/?p=3034 Despite searching the web, I can't 
find a definition to match your usage.

In addition to the UK I've seen allotments in other places in Europe, but
not in the US - does the concept even exist over there?

We can't say until we know what the definition is, but my experience
is that with a country that's as large and diverse as the US, it
probably exists somewhere, whatever it is.



From the Oxford English Dictionary...

'plot' = 'A fairly small piece of ground, esp. one used for a specified 
purpose, such as building or gardening, etc.'. Also: 'orig. N. Amer. = 
burial plot n. [...] Freq. in family plot.'


'allotment' = 'A share, portion, or amount of something that has been 
allotted to someone.' Hence:
'A share or portion of land assigned to a person, or appropriated for a 
particular purpose; a plot.' And more specifically:
'orig. Brit. A small plot of land rented, typically from a local 
authority, by an individual for growing vegetables or flowers or for 
keeping small livestock, such as hens and rabbits.
'Allotments are usually associated with urban locations, although the 
earliest examples relate to the letting of land to agricultural 
labourers as a measure to relieve their poverty after land enclosure 
(cf. allotment system n. at Compounds 2). Each allotment should not 
exceed a quarter of an acre and produce must be solely for the 
consumption of the allotment holder, as specified in the Allotments Act 
of 1922. Allotments became especially popular in Great Britain during 
the world wars of 1914–18 and 1939–45, as a means of alleviating food 
shortages.'


Derived from the verb 'allot' ('To give or assign (something) to someone 
authoritatively, without the recipient having any control; to distribute 
(shares, duties, etc.) among a number of people; to apportion.'), which 
in turn derives from:


'lot' = 'An object (app. usually a piece of wood) used in a widely 
diffused ancient method of deciding disputes, dividing plunder or 
property, selecting persons for an office or duty, etc., by an appeal to 
chance or the divine agency supposed to be concerned in the results of 
chance.' Hence:
'What falls to a person by lot. a. That which is assigned by lot to a 
person as his share or portion in an inheritance, or in a distribution 
of property; a division or share of property made by lot.' Hence:
'(Now chiefly U.S.) A plot or portion of land assigned by the state to a 
particular owner. Hence, any piece of land divided off or set apart for 
a particular purpose, e.g. for building or pasture.'
Also: 'One of the plots or portions in which a tract of land is divided 
when offered for sale. Also, land round a film studio where outside 
filming may be done.'


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Re: [Tagging] give way and stop tag for ways

[Steve Doerr]

My understanding is that a give_way node on a way should be placed such 
that it is closer to the relevant intersection than it is to any other 
intersection of that way. Thus, as long as you can work out (from this 
proximity) which intersection it relates to, you have all the 
information you need to handle it properly: it applies to traffic 
passing that node heading towards the relevant intersection.


Steve


On 04/11/2013 22:30, Balázs Barcsik wrote:

Hi There!

I would like to introduce give_way and stop alerts into navigation 
tools such as OSMAnd.
For this approach a good tagging is needed. So when someone driving 
and arrives to an intersection then the app would show give way or 
stop depending on which road he/she is. (or nothing if the road is a 
priority one)


Can you help me define this in a proper way?

I think there are several options:

1. extend highway=give_way (and stop) to able to use on ways
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dgive_way
2. define a new tag: priority_road=give_way (stop)
link to existing tag 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Apriority_road

3. define new tag: priority=give_way (stop)
link to existing tag https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:priority
4. define new type - priority:
link to my proposal: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:_relation:priority


Thanks, Balazs




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Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet

[Steve Doerr]

On 02/01/2014 13:55, Philip Barnes wrote:

Hi Nounours
I know its an American, not an English word, but tourism=apartment has
237 uses.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/tourism=apartment

I agree flat should be the correct term, but maybe too late to change
now.




Actually, I was just thinking that we (Brits) tend to use the word 
'apartment' rather than 'flat' when talking about holiday lets. 
Inconsistent, I know!


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Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet

[Steve Doerr]

Yes, I'm saying that British people booking holiday accommodation will 
mostly talk about 'apartments', not 'flats' - perhaps partly because 
that's what they will see in the brochures. I'm saying that the famous 
US/UK split between 'apartment' and 'flat' is largely confined to 
residential accommodation, and that once we talk about holidays 
(vacations) both sides of the Atlantic will mostly use the term 'apartment'.


'Chalet' might pass for a holiday apartment in a single-storey block, 
where the apartments are next to each other but not on top of each 
other. It would seem very strange, though, to use 'chalet' for an 
apartment in a multi-storey block. (That's not to say, of course, that a 
standalone chalet cannot itself have multiple floors - of course it can. 
It's the idea of chalets stacked on top of each other that would be 
ludicrous.)


The other point you should consider is that what you will mostly be 
tagging is not an apartment but a block of apartments - a building 
containing several apartments. (Same applies to residential flats - 
you're normally mapping the block, not the individual flats.) So maybe 
you need tourism = apartment_block or just tourism = [holiday_]apartments.


Steve

On 03/01/2014 10:13, nounours77 wrote:

Dear Dave, Steve, Philip

Thank you very much for your replies.

If I understand correctly, you all advocate to use apartment instead of 
flat.

As being non-native English, I can not really judge on this (I just learned 
flat in school, so ... at may age :-) ), so no problem for me to change.

On the other hand, I think it's important to keep the part holiday in it, since the term 
apartment is already used in normal buildings to specify the type of building (e.g. 
being residential apartments), or the number of apartments or so, and though this might lead to confusion.

@Philip: I agree that we should wherever possible respect actual use of tags. 
But for me, 237 uses is not strong enough to make a prejudice. If the proposal 
is accepted, I think this can be changed later if wished.

So, tourism=holiday_apartment should be clear that this is a flat you can 
actually rent for a weeks vacation or so.

Do you agree on that?

In general, do you think it's worth making a new tag?

Thanks, Nounours



P.S.: The page is still under the old name, it will be moved when (if) we get 
to the voting stage:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holiday_flat



Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 08:31:04 +0700
From: Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag
tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Message-ID:
cakwfyhxjdyjf2u+gpf-p65kmjxun8nqtm3on82caz1t9evv...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I think of the word flat as being distinctly British. I have only rarely
heard the word flat used to describe and apartment in the U.S. When I
first glanced at the beginning of this thread I thought the OP was
referring to flats of flowers. LOL

Cheers,

Dave


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.comwrote:


On 02/01/2014 13:55, Philip Barnes wrote:


Hi Nounours
I know its an American, not an English word, but tourism=apartment has
237 uses.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/tourism=apartment

I agree flat should be the correct term, but maybe too late to change
now.




Actually, I was just thinking that we (Brits) tend to use the word
'apartment' rather than 'flat' when talking about holiday lets.
Inconsistent, I know!

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Re: [Tagging] Ski_jump_take_off

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/01/2014 18:04, remont...@free.fr wrote:

Hello,

I want you to think about a normalized tag about ski jump take_off 
(tremplins de saut à ski en français). I like sport=ski_jump_take_off. 
Do you think it is a good idea? Can I document it in the wiki ?


The OED has 'ski-jump   n.  (a) the artificial structure built on a 
natural slope, from which a ski-jumper takes off'.


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - All You Can Eat

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/02/2014 18:04, Fernando Trebien wrote:


I still think that opening_hours as a subtag would be an unnecessary
specialization that would only be needed rarely. Can you provide an
example in which you would not be able to represent that information
in a different way? (such as using two or more geometric objects)


It's quite common in the UK for a restaurant to operate as a normal, a 
la carte restaurant most of the week, and offer an all-you-can-eat 
buffet on, say, Sundays. I'm at a loss to understand why that would be 
represented as two separate geometric objects.


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Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

[Steve Doerr]

On 07/03/2014 08:37, johnw wrote:



But I don't know the correct word to represent Onsen in English.
Is [something]=hot_spring_bath better?


XX=hot_spring_bath would be perfect.

I think, Onsen is the very unique word to represent bathing 
amenity, that water from natural hot spring.

So, I would like to hear the situations of other countries.


There is no single word in english that means onsen, so it would have 
to be several words at once. But there are other words that have been 
adopted (wadi, for example) to succinctly describe something that 
would need multiple words in english, so maybe they'll adopt the 
Japanese word here.


'Onsen' is in the Oxford Dictionary, defined as 'In Japan: a hot spring, 
esp. one thought to have medicinal properties; a hot spring resort'.


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Re: [Tagging] surface=ground/dirt/earth

[Steve Doerr]

On 13/03/2014 15:09, ael wrote:

 From another English person, I would say that dirt in British English
is understood to mean the substance which causes something to be not
clean. That is it is much wider in meaning than soil or earth.  But it
is almost never used to mean soil or earth under your feet, although
that might be described as dirty or even dirt if telling a child to
avoid rolling in it.

However, maybe there are places where this is not true given Jonathan's
post, but whenever I hear it used that way, it has come from American
English. Of course, some American English reflects some old British
usage and dialects from a few centuries ago

I tend to tag with ground where there are sections of soil (which
may be covered with vegetation for some parts of the year) and maybe be
rocky with sections of sand and gravel. I have just been mapping some
paths and tracks on Bodmin Moor which have all these characteristics
and no one tag seems really descriptive.




For me (British English), 'ground' isn't a type of surface at all: it's 
usually preceded by the definite article ('the ground') and means 'the 
surface of the earth' (where 'earth' means the planet), but not 
necessarily in a natural state: a paved area can be 'the ground'. Inside 
a building, though, you talk of 'the floor'.


'Earth' as a substance is much the same as 'soil', except that soil 
makes one think specifically of earth as a growing medium for plants.


There may be a 'false friend' in some languages, as 'the ground' roughly 
corresponds to 'le sol' in French, which nevertheless sometimes has the 
narrower meaning of 'soil'.


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Re: [Tagging] Driving side

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/03/2014 20:42, Paul Johnson wrote:


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:07 PM, John Packer john.pack...@gmail.com 
mailto:john.pack...@gmail.com wrote:


There are, in my city, a couple of streets that have an /inverted/
driving side.
So I am going to extend this tag's documentation to include ways
that have it's driving side opposite to it's country's normal
driving side.


In the US, I'm aware that there's some instances of this, however, are 
there any instances where this is the case and there's no median? 
 Because I'm unaware of any that are on a single carriageway in the US.




(Remembers a quiz question from many years ago.) There's one in London: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4253954


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Re: [Tagging] Driving side

[Steve Doerr]

On 22/03/2014 14:24, Tobias Knerr wrote:

Changing it wouldn't be a problem, which is why I support adding 
highways as a use case. I just don't think changing the values would 
be an improvement.


I agree: let's leave it as-is but add the possibility of using it on 
ways to mark exceptions. It's a sensible thing to tag on countries, and 
I'm quite surprised it hasn't been more used.


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Re: [Tagging] Wilderness huts

[Steve Doerr]

On 01/04/2014 02:01, Dave Swarthout wrote:

Fly mentioned shelter_type just now — another type of wilderness 
accommodation is a basic shelter called a lean-to, a rough three 
sided, roofed shelter, open to the elements on one side.


That's an odd use of the word 'lean-to'. Yes, a lean-to is a three-sided 
structure, but it's only a lean-to if it 'leans' against another 
structure which effectively supplies the fourth side. A free-standing 
lean-to is a contradiction in terms!


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Re: [Tagging] shop for baby strollers only

[Steve Doerr]

And it appears John Lewis department stores sell strollers: 
http://www.johnlewis.com/search/strollers


Steve

On 04/04/2014 11:36, André Riedel wrote:

At the moment stroller is used for ramps or ways as access condition.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=stroller

2014-04-04 12:25 GMT+02:00 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk:

Strollers are, I think, called pushchairs in English.


shop=baby_goods

baby_goods=push_chairs


Phil (trigpoint)

--



Sent from my Nokia N9




On 04/04/2014 11:05 Matthijs Melissen wrote:

Personally I would use shop=baby_goods, baby_goods=strollers. That way you
preserve full detail, and you also accomodate data consumers that don't know
about stroller shops.

-- Matthijs

On 4 Apr 2014 10:50, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote:

Should I tag a shop, where I can buy a baby strollers (and only
strollers, nothing more) as shop=baby_goods ?

Or is it better to use shop=stroller ?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbaby_goods

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Re: [Tagging] shop for baby strollers only

[Steve Doerr]

On 05/04/2014 22:39, John F. Eldredge wrote:

For that matter, when I have seen the term pushchair in British books, it has 
always referred to what Americans call a wheelchair, used for transporting 
adults or older children who are temporarily or permanently unable to walk.



I've never heard push-chair used that way in Britain. The chairs used by 
disabled people are called 'wheelchairs' here as well, and 'push-chairs' 
are for young children. There are also 'buggies', but I don't know the 
difference.


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Re: [Tagging] direction=forward/backward on nodes ?

[Steve Doerr]

I'm surprised that so many people are jumping to this conclusion. Let's 
remember that a way is just a series of nodes in a particular order. So 
a node is not necessarily an isolated object. In many cases, it exists 
solely as part of a way. Thus the concept of direction is not 
meaningless for a node which is part of a way. I haven't examined any 
uses of the tag on a node, but I can imagine, for instance, that a node 
in a way with a direction attribute might be used to represent a 
road-sign that applies only to traffic on the way passing that node in a 
particular direction.


Steve

On 12/04/2014 18:43, John F. Eldredge wrote:

Since a node is a point, and has no dimensions, a direction tag is meaningless.


On April 12, 2014 12:20:26 PM CDT, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hey

As I had much fun with the last subject (noexit), I just can not hold
myself back to jump into another bee nest.

I read on the wiki page [1], that direction=forward/backward are valid
values also for nodes.

Could someone please explain me, how this can work.

I only find some major reasons not to do that:
* You always have to look at the parent object to determine the
direction
* There is no editor supporting this tag when reverting a way
direction
* I am not allowed to split a way at this point which is another
unneeded burn and once again you need special editor support which is
not present.


Cheers

fly

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Re: [Tagging] capital and state_capital: how are they being used in your country?

[Steve Doerr]

On 15/05/2014 13:23, Matthijs Melissen wrote:



- The administrative centre of a region might be licated outside the 
region in administers. For example, the city of Częstochowa is the 
administrative centre of Częstochowa county, but the city is not part 
of the county (the county forms a ring around the city).





This is even more true of Surrey in England, whose county town (capital) 
is Kingston in the neighbouring Greater London:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/57582?mlat=51.4049540555035mlon=-0.305049035418748#map=10/51.2787/-0.3296

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Re: [Tagging] Future proposal - RFC - amenity=dormitory

[Steve Doerr]

On 12/07/2014 15:25, Dudley Ibbett wrote:

Hi

I was going to say that from a UK English perspective I have never 
seen dormitory used in this way.  However, in the context of a 
dictionary definition the proposal seems to relate to the definition 
with regard to a suburb  A small town or suburb providing a 
residential area for those who work in a nearby city. It also appears 
that it would be used as a modifier.  i.e. a dormitory suburb.


I may have got this wrong but the proposal would seem to be extending 
this definition to mean a type of suburb of the University.   UK 
Universities are rather small to have dormitory suburbs and you 
would generally just talk about the halls of residence or the 
perhaps the residential area of a campus.




I'd go further and say that, for me (UK English speaker), a dormitory is 
a room. A single building may well contain multiple dormitories. I'd 
call the building in that case a 'dormitory block'. And also, a 
dormitory is a communal facility containing two or more beds - otherwise 
it's just a bedroom.


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Re: [Tagging] Synonymous values in the shop key

[Steve Doerr]

On 16/07/2014 20:11, Serge Wroclawski wrote:


there are no delicatessens in the UK.


http://www.yell.com/ucs/UcsSearchAction.do?keywords=delicatessenlocation=united+kingdom

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Re: [Tagging] Townhouse

[Steve Doerr]

I'm British, and I associate the term 'townhouse' (at least in estate 
agents' blurb) with a house in a town having more than the usual two 
storeys, and usually not detached. The OED supports this meaning, though 
the earlier meaning was 'A house in a town or city; esp[ecially] one 
belonging to someone who has another property in the country.'


The 'town hall' meaning is in there as well, and also an obsolete 
meaning of 'workhouse'.


If you're drawing buildings, whether a house is terraced or not should 
be apparent from the geometry without any special tagging. There's 
probably also a tag to indicate the number of storeys, so I'm not sure a 
specific tag for a townhouse is needed.


Steve

On 21/07/2014 00:51, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



Am 20/lug/2014 um 07:10 schrieb Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org 
mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org:


I'd tag it as building=house and subdivide it as necessary similar to 
a stripmall if you know where the walls between units/addresses are.



I'd probably use building=terraced_house for all recent developments I 
know who call themselves townhouse, but looking into WP showed that in 
Britain the meaning refers to the town or city residence of a member 
of the nobility http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility or gentry 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentry, as opposed to their country 
seat: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townhouse_(Great_Britain) 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townhouse_%28Great_Britain%29
(different meanings in AE and BE of the same word somehow make it less 
usable as a tag (I.e. townhouse), because you'll get more mistagging 
than the average whatever you define in the wiki)


 house alone is quite generic and also used for detached houses, 
better go for a little more specificity



cheers,
Martin


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Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/08/2014 10:04, Никита wrote:

I don't think so. Can you please define meaning of bridge=humpback?


Shorter Oxford has 'a small bridge with a steep ascent and descent'.

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Re: [Tagging] Unification of google-plus links

[Steve Doerr]

I note that the domain name for Google+ is plus.google.com, so there is 
no objection to substituting 'plus' for '+' in some way.


Steve

On 29/08/2014 15:36, Andreas Neumann wrote:

The problem is the + and the space sign. Both are bad chars for a key.

Maybe someone can tell why.

[http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/contact%3Agoogle%20%2B]

Andreas


On 29.08.2014 11:57, Andy Mabbett wrote:

This all seems sensible, with the exception that I can only ever recall
seeing the former referred to as Google +, and I think most people
will use the + sign.

On Aug 29, 2014 10:39 AM, Andreas Neumann andr-neum...@gmx.net
mailto:andr-neum...@gmx.net wrote:

 Hi,

 I would like to unify the keys for google-plus-pages of objects in the
 Database. In TagInfo I found this variants:

 contact:google+
 contact:google_plus
 link:google_plus
 contact:google
 Google +
 Google Plus
 Google+
 contact:googleplus
 contact:google +
 GooglePlus
 googleplus
 contatc:google+
 google business
 [https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=google]

 I would like to change the Keys in contact:google_plus
 [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:contact].

 I found also some Facebook-keys (with uppercase F). I would like to
 change them in contact:facebook
 [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:contact]. The same with
 Twitter (- contact:twitter).

 And I would like to move the social-network-links
 link:[facebook|twitter] in the contact-namespace.

 Andreas





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Re: [Tagging] Unification of google-plus links

[Steve Doerr]

That's as may be. But the widget Google gives you to switch between 
their various apps uses a URL beginning https://plus.google.com to 
switch to Google+. At least, it does for me.


Steve

On 29/08/2014 19:07, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi,

I disagree.
Example:
https://plus.google.com/+ConciergeCleanersCo is the same like
https://google.com/+ConciergeCleanersCo

And there are a lot of other URL-schema.

Andreas

On 29.08.2014 19:49, Steve Doerr wrote:

I note that the domain name for Google+ is plus.google.com, so there is
no objection to substituting 'plus' for '+' in some way.

Steve

On 29/08/2014 15:36, Andreas Neumann wrote:

The problem is the + and the space sign. Both are bad chars for a key.

Maybe someone can tell why.

[http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/contact%3Agoogle%20%2B]

Andreas


On 29.08.2014 11:57, Andy Mabbett wrote:

This all seems sensible, with the exception that I can only ever recall
seeing the former referred to as Google +, and I think most people
will use the + sign.

On Aug 29, 2014 10:39 AM, Andreas Neumann andr-neum...@gmx.net
mailto:andr-neum...@gmx.net wrote:

 Hi,

 I would like to unify the keys for google-plus-pages of objects in the
 Database. In TagInfo I found this variants:

 contact:google+
 contact:google_plus
 link:google_plus
 contact:google
 Google +
 Google Plus
 Google+
 contact:googleplus
 contact:google +
 GooglePlus
 googleplus
 contatc:google+
 google business
 [https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=google]

 I would like to change the Keys in contact:google_plus
 [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:contact].

 I found also some Facebook-keys (with uppercase F). I would like to
 change them in contact:facebook
 [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:contact]. The same with
 Twitter (- contact:twitter).

 And I would like to move the social-network-links
 link:[facebook|twitter] in the contact-namespace.

 Andreas




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Re: [Tagging] Pre-RFC: shop=mall versus shop=shopping_centre

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/10/2014 12:06, Brad Neuhauser wrote:
I agree with Matthjis--I don't see much of a clearly defined and 
widely agreed on difference between the two. Given that, and the small 
usage of shopping_centre, I agree with should deprecate shopping_centre.




Just chipping in to say that 'mall' is still considered a foreign word 
in Britain. The OED defines it thus:


'Chiefly N. Amer., Austral., and N.Z. A shopping precinct or street 
closed to vehicles; a large (usually covered) shopping centre'.


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Re: [Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and their tagging

[Steve Doerr]

When I see 'facultatif' in French, I normally translate this as 
'optional' in English. You will find 'facultative' in the Oxford English 
Dictionary, but it will be a meaningless word to most English people.


Steve

On 14/12/2014 10:35, Ulrich Lamm wrote:


Am 13.12.2014 um 10:56 schrieb tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
mailto:tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org:



Message: 4
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:14:29 +
From: SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk 
mailto:li...@atownsend.org.uk

To:tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and their tagging
Message-ID: 548b1465.60...@atownsend.org.uk 
mailto:548b1465.60...@atownsend.org.uk

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 12/12/2014 13:13, Ulrich Lamm wrote:


Seehttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts



This could benefit from an explanation of what problem you're trying to
solve here.  The wiki's full of I think we should tag X like Y pages
but without any arguments for a change to motivate mappers to change
their habits it's not going to happen.

Currently, for example, obligatory is used only 40 times, and 10 of
those are nudism:

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values

Also the mainly biological term facultative is used as if it's an
accepted tag, but there are only 49 uses, in the centre of Bremen:

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative

(and it's not common English by any stretch of the imagination - maybe
versions of it are more used in Romance languages where the latin root
is more obvious)

Cheers,

Andy


All tags I've written in purple are innovative. I. e., they are an 
outcome of logical delibaration, not a record of frequent practice.

Even myself I didn't use them before suggesting them.
But only watching practice, we'll never get a set of uneqivocal tools.
As I've written in the notes, I have preferred the term 
obligatory, as it is common in many languages, and it is part of the 
official description of the round blue French traffic sign piste ou 
bande cyclable obligatoire = obligatory cycletrack or cycle lane.
The counterpart (rectangular blue French sign)  is piste ou bande 
cyclable conseillée et réservée = advisory-and-reserved cycletrack 
or cycle lane. There, I suggest facultative or simply free for 
cycletracks and soft_lane fpr cycle lanes. That kind of cycletracks 
(in Germany Radweg ohne Benutzungspflicht, cycletrack-design without 
signpost) may be used only by cyclists, but needn't be used by them. 
The British traffic law has a similar status for its _strict_ cycle 
lanes, called mandatory, which puzzles readers of other native 
languages, as according to dicitionaries mandatory is almost 
synonyme with obligatory.


I think it doesn't matter if the term obligatory or the term 
facultative is also used for other than road traffic features, 
unless the other usage would be in contradiction to the road traffic use.


Cheers
Ulrich


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Re: [Tagging] Mapping of kids areas

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/12/2014 15:13, ael wrote:

Just a quick interjection from a native English speaker. Kids is
slang. The proper English term is children. A kid is young goat.



+1.

I had been planning at some point to throw that particular spanner in 
the works.


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Re: [Tagging] Mapping of kids areas

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/12/2014 18:02, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:

I was only arguing for using playground + subtags instead of 
playground vs children_area


It's childrens_area, not children_area. In normal prose, it would be 
children's area (possessive, with an apostrophe). I think we generally 
accept the dropping of apostrophes in keyword tag values. Similarly, the 
phrase used in the thread subject should actually be kids' areas.


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Re: [Tagging] 'Variety' in UK English?

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/12/2014 19:41, Guillaume Pratte wrote:
We are having a discussion on the wiki about the ‘varieté’ value for 
the theatre:genre tag values:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dtheatre#variet.C3.A9 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity=theatre#variet.C3.A9


‘varieté’ does not seems English (shouldn’t it be ‘variety’?), and 
it’s not French either (it should be ‘variété’).


I suppose in the US they would write ‘variety’. How is it spelled in 
the UK?


The same: variety. My impression is that, in French, it is normally 
plural (e.g. théâtre de variétés), so if we wanted a French tag-value it 
would be variétés.


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Re: [Tagging] 'Variety' in UK English?

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/12/2014 20:36, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 29/12/2014 19:41, Guillaume Pratte wrote:
We are having a discussion on the wiki about the ‘varieté’ value for 
the theatre:genre tag values:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dtheatre#variet.C3.A9 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity=theatre#variet.C3.A9


‘varieté’ does not seems English (shouldn’t it be ‘variety’?), and 
it’s not French either (it should be ‘variété’).


I suppose in the US they would write ‘variety’. How is it spelled in 
the UK?


The same: variety. My impression is that, in French, it is normally 
plural (e.g. théâtre de variétés), so if we wanted a French tag-value 
it would be variétés


OK, the term varieté (and other genres) was introduced in the Wiki in 
February 2010 by a German user called BlackBike. It seems there is a 
German word Varieté, also spelt Varietee, translated by leo.org as 
'music hall' or 'vaudeville'. I'm not familiar with the subtleties of 
these different terms, but it's not impossible that there is a genre 
specific to the German-speaking world, subtly different from variety, 
vaudeville, music-hall, or French variétés, which therefore needs a 
tag-value of its own: theatre:genre=varieté.


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Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

[Steve Doerr]

On 22/01/2015 15:22, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:

On 22/01/2015, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote:

Existing pages: value e-cigarette is referenced in the wiki.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others

Using - instead of _ goes against a very established tagging practice.



-1

The underscore character is widely substituted for the space character 
in tag keys and values, but I think the hyphen is considered OK. For the 
avoidance of doubt, in English you would write 'electronic cigarette' 
(with a space) or 'e-cigarette' (with a hyphen), but not 'e cigarette' 
(with a space).


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Re: [Tagging] patron saints

[Steve Doerr]

On 28/01/2015 12:43, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2015-01-27 11:42 GMT+01:00 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com 
mailto:simone.savi...@gmail.com:


Speaking of Vatican, i.e. Roman Catholic Church, Mary is Blessed,
not Saint. Her title is Beata Virgo Maria (Beata Vergine Maria in
Italian, Blessed Virgin Mary in English). She is an unordinary
Blessed, as she and her feasts are more important than those of
the Saints; anyway, Saint Mary is nothing but a popular name :-)



Are you sure about this? Because I have heard about Santissima Madre 
di Dio (holiest mother of God)


There are also several other St. Marys, e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Goretti




Describing someone as 'holy' is not the same as giving them the title 
'saint'. The very fact that the superlative is used ('santissima') 
somewhat suggests that this is not the regular title meaning 'saint'. 
Nevertheless, there are many Church of England churches dedicated to 'St 
Mary the Virgin', so she seems to have been promoted to sainthood by the 
Anglican church! In Catholic circles, 'Our Lady' or its equivalent is 
also a common dedication.


The confusion in the use of Saint is noted by the Oxford English Dictionary:

'†3. Prefixed to various common nouns (in collocations taken over from 
Latin and French), esp. Charity, Cross, Spirit, Trinity. Obs.

'Sometimes abbreviated as in A. 1.

'In dedications of churches there occur St. Cross, St. Faith, St. 
Saviour, St. Sepulchre.'


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Re: [Tagging] patron saints

[Steve Doerr]

On 25/01/2015 16:29, Friedrich Volkmann wrote:


I'd like to suggest a new key for patron saints. Certainly patron_saint=* or
just patron=*. There are some occurrences in Taginfo, although most values
of patron=* do not look like saints.

holy_name=* has also been suggested, but this sounds to me as if the name
were holy. It's actually the saint who is holy.

patronage=* may be ambiguous.

patrociny=* seems to be an extinct word.




In English, we often call this the 'dedication' of the church. This can 
include things like Holy Cross (Sacré Cœur) which are obviously not saints.


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Re: [Tagging] patron saints

[Steve Doerr]

On 25/01/2015 16:27, Tod Fitch wrote:


On Jan 25, 2015, at 8:20 AM, Steve Doerr wrote:

In English, we often call this the 'dedication' of the church. This 
can include things like Holy Cross (Sacré Cœur) which are obviously 
not saints.


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I know nothing about who churches are dedicated to, but wouldn't Sacré 
Cœur translate to Sacred Heart rather than Holy Cross?




Doh! Yes.

Steve



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Re: [Tagging] patron saints

[Steve Doerr]

On 28/01/2015 16:12, André Pirard wrote:


The fact is that in French, we use no such words as Blessed.


The French equivalent is 'Bienheureux/se'. I don't suppose it's ever 
used of the Virgin Mary, though.


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Re: [Tagging] Boundary Relations. What's a subarea used for?

[Steve Doerr]

On 08/01/2015 01:21, Dave F. wrote:

Are they relevant? If so, what are they for? The wiki suggests they're 
superseded:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:boundary#Relation_members



No it doesn't, it says they're 'optional, disputed, and redundant'. The 
term 'redundant' has multiple meanings, but I take it to mean 'not 
strictly necessary', 'not adding additional information', or some such.


I'd say leave them unless they cause a real problem. Out of respect to 
the mappers who have gone before you, if nothing else.


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Re: [Tagging] Blatant tagging for the renderer: bridges abandoned railways

[Steve Doerr]

On 09/03/2015 18:07, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:


That is handled in a separate issue:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1320

Before commenting in this issue please carefully read existing comments,
especially the first two.


I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would make this comment: 'Unless 
you are a maintainer on this project, please do not mention or even hint 
at abandoned railways since that will lead to your comments being 
deleted and you being blocked from making future comments.'


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Haul Channel

[Steve Doerr]

On 12/03/2015 05:49, Warin wrote:

On 11/03/2015 4:06 AM, Sam Dyck wrote:

In Canada, privately licensed frequencies, not CB


Humm Why call it a 'channel'? And not 'frequency?  Might reduce 
confusion with CB radio channels?


And why 'haul'? I'm actually having no success finding examples of the 
phrase 'haul channel' in actual use via Google. Is it short for 
'long-haul channel' or something?


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Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag

[Steve Doerr]

On 25/05/2015 19:14, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:


Can you just show me a single Wikipedia entry without a Wikidata object.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections
Ok, maybe that one doesn't count because it's kind of metadata that
doesn't belong in wikidata.



https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4434286

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Re: [Tagging] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle

[Steve Doerr]

UN convention, apparently:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2011-September/008578.html

Steve


On 13/10/2015 12:40, Paul Johnson wrote:
But why?  It seems tools aren't expecting lanes tags with more lanes 
than in the lanes count.  Seems exceptionally arbitrary and very 
incomplete to count only lanes that a sedan can use.


On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Hubert > wrote:


Hey Paul,

„lanes=*“[1] is for the total number of car traffic lanes and
should not be confused with the “:lanes” suffix [2].

So “highway=* + oneway=yes + lanes=2 + cycleway=lane” is correct.

However, your

motor_vehicle:lanes=yes|no|yes

bicycle:lanes=yes|designated|yes

is correct, too.

Yours Hubert

[1]https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes

[2]https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes

*From:*Paul Johnson [mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org
]
*Sent:* Dienstag, 13. Oktober 2015 13:06
*To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
*Subject:* [Tagging] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle

Seems like some of the examples are wrong.  For example, M2c...

Wouldn't it be better and more consistent relative to other
mode-specific lanes to tag it as...

oneway=yes

cycleway=lane

lanes=3

motor_vehicle:lanes=yes|no|yes

bicycle:lanes=yes|designated|yes


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Re: [Tagging] intermittent vs seasonal

[Steve Doerr]

On 02/10/2015 08:35, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


Am 02.10.2015 um 07:14 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
>:



At the moment the 'intermittent' wiki says;
In Description:/Indicates that waterway or water body is intermittent 
(seasonal) /
In Key:intermittent:/Or that a water body (lake) disappears seasonally./
The use of seasonal here limits it to things that have a yearly cycle.


I would rather remove the 'seasonal' references .. something like
In Description:/Indicates that waterway or water body is intermittent./  
One could add the word/irregular/  or/random/  in brackets if helpfull?



In Key:intermittent:/The tag //*intermittent*=yes//is used to indicate that a waterway (river, stream, etc.) or a water 
body (lake) has random dry and wet periods./

Any 'season' things should be addressed by the key:seasonal.



+1, likely this will require to check the 927000 objects that 
currently are tagged as intermittent?





The OED definition of 'intemittent' is 'that intermits or ceases for a 
time; coming at intervals; operating by fits and starts'. To intermit is 
'to cease or stop for a time'.


Steve




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Re: [Tagging] Swimming pools

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/12/2015 00:23, johnw wrote:


On Dec 16, 2015, at 8:38 PM, Philip Barnes > wrote:


Isn't the term public_bath somewhat outdated?



Google search 温泉 in Japan


https://www.google.com/maps/search/温泉 /@36.3099717,138.9777321,11z 



several thousand red dots will show up.

an onsen is subkey value of public bath, documented on the wiki.

some onsen are amenities in a hotel, spa, or mountain inn, but most 
are stand alone facilities.


this is one of the most common and universal things for friends and 
family to do after an activity (shopping, vacation, hiking, etc) in Japan.


Go to a amusement park with the family? go to the onsen after.

Going hiking in the monuntains? go to an onsen when done.

Office lunch party? go wine tasting then go go to an onsen in the 
afternoon.


Yes, this means bathing with classmates, coworkers, and family members 
(almost always gender separated) in a public place.


In the US, “public baths” and very rare, and I don’t think I have ever 
been to one.


in Japan, they are part of every day culture.

https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=onsen=isch=u=univ=X=0ahUKEwjvxtPckOTJAhVjKaYKHdaFBf8QsAQIRQ=1311=834#imgrc=_



In England, public swimming pools were often called 'swimming baths' 
until the late 20th century. The 'public baths' were understood to refer 
to a building containing a swimming pool for public use. If you go back 
further, I think these establishments did actually provide washing 
facilities for those, especially the urban poor, who didn't have 
bath-tubs in the home, and were provided as a public-health measure.


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Discourage tourism=gallery

[Steve Doerr]

On 01/02/2016 22:15, Dave F wrote:


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/museum#Noun




See also this definition and note in the OED under 'museum':

'2. a. A building or institution in which objects of historical, 
scientific, artistic, or cultural interest are preserved and exhibited. 
Also: the collection of objects held by such an institution.


'Although a museum may include a library or art gallery, the word is not 
(in British use) normally applied to an institution in which either of 
these is the sole or most prominent feature. However, in continental 
Europe the corresponding word is often used to denote an art collection, 
and when so used is usually rendered museum in English (cf. musée n. 
). Similarly, in the 
United States, museum is sometimes used for art museum'.


It seems to me that the wiki was attempting to preserve the British 
English distinction between a museum and a gallery, and the latest 
changes have moved it in the direction of American and European usage.


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Re: [Tagging] Galleries versus art shops

[Steve Doerr]

On 15/02/2016 08:34, Max wrote:

On 2016년 02월 15일 02:03, Warin wrote:

  To me a 'gallery' is a place that displays art .. not sells it. So

Have you followed the two threads of discussion at all before sending this?



I agree with Warin (and the OED note I quoted before): in British 
English, a place that displays art is an art gallery, not a museum. The 
National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Tate Gallery, etc. in 
London are examples. So, in my opinion, are the Van Gogh Museum and 
Rijksmuseum: were it not for the element 'museum' in their names, we 
would think of these as art galleries, not museums.


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Re: [Tagging] New tag

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/06/2016 05:27, Hans De Kryger wrote:

How does everyone feel about (store_number=) for store numbers that 
companies assign their stores?




Or perhaps branch_number?

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/09/2016 23:36, Kevin Kenny wrote:


In what way is it not a cenotaph? It is clearly a structural monument. 
It is in memory of a deceased person. Said deceased person is not 
entombed there, although his remains are thought to be in an unmarked 
grave somewhere nearby. It looks like a tomb, but nobody is entombed 
in it.





And the word actually *means* 'empty tomb': 'ancient Greek /κενοτάϕιον/ 
< /κενός/ empty [...] + /τάϕος/ tomb' (Oxford English Dictionary).


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Re: [Tagging] What about a disused quarry and historic surface mining?

[Steve Doerr]

On 09/01/2017 20:56, ksg wrote:

Am 09.01.2017 um 21:23 schrieb ael :




It is perfectly clear in
the case of a disused quarry. It is still a quarry. But it is no longer
in use. In a few cases it may have a new purpose, but it is still a
quarry in any normal sense.

No, if there there no more mining, exploitation or landfill activities, the 
former quarry is a geological outcrop at best.


FWIW, the OED definition is quite careful on this point:

quarry 1. a. A surface excavation from which stone for use in building 
and construction is or has been extracted by cutting, blasting, or other 
means; a place where the rock has been, or is being, removed to be used.


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Re: [Tagging] change recommendation from "depth" to "length" for the adit length?

[Steve Doerr]

deep, adj.:

1.
a. Having great or considerable extension downward.
b. Having great or considerable extension inward from the surface or 
exterior, or backward from the front.


(Oxford English Dictionary)

Both senses are dated from the Anglo-Saxon period.

Steve

On 11/05/2017 09:54, Michal Fabík wrote:
Sounds reasonable to me. If it's horizontal or near-horizontal, depth 
makes no sense.


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On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:


According to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dadit
 the tag
"depth" should be used for the length of an adit (horizontal mine
entrance). According to wiki discussion, people seem to agree that
"length" is a better tag for this, as "depth" is used to indicate
how deep (vertically) something is.

Any complaints or agreeing voices for this change?

Cheers,
Martin



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Re: [Tagging] New OSM Quick-Fix service

[Steve Doerr]

Way to go!

 

This looks like just the kind of productivity tool OSM is crying out for. Great 
idea, Yuri.

 

Steve

 

 

From: Yuri Astrakhan [mailto:yuriastrak...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 October 2017 22:25
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools ; 
OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
Subject: [Tagging] New OSM Quick-Fix service

 

I would like to introduce a new quick-fix editing service.  It allows users to 
generate a list of editing suggestions using a query, review each suggestion 
one by one, and click "Save" on each change if they think it's a good edit.

 

For example, RU community wants to convert  amenity=sanatorium  ->  
leisure=resort + resort=sanatorium.  Clicking on a dot shows a popup with the 
suggested edit. If you think the edit is correct, simply click Save.

Try it:  http://tinyurl.com/y8mzvk84

 

I have started a Quick fixes wiki page, where we can share and discuss quick 
fix ideas.

* Quick fixes  

* Documentation 

 

 

This is a very new project, and bugs are likely. Please go slowly, and check 
the resulting edits. Let me know if you find any problems. Your technical 
expertise is always welcome, see the code at 
https://github.com/nyurik/wikidata-query-gui  The service has adapted some code 
from the Osmose project (thanks!)

 

TODO:

* Allow multiple edits per one change set

* Show objects instead of the dots

* Allow users to change comment before saving

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Re: [Tagging] colour gray or grey ?

[Steve Doerr]

gray is the spelling used by w3.org, e.g. at https://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/. 
However, grey is the British English spelling, which is normally preferred for 
OSM tag values. So it probably makes sense to allow both.

Steve


-Original Message-
From: marc marc [mailto:marc_marc_...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 04 October 2017 22:08
To: tag 
Subject: [Tagging] colour gray or grey ?

Hello,

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:colour
gray or grey ? I don't understand why wiki have 2 values.

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/11/2017 22:31, José G Moya Y. wrote:

The proposal says:

education=testcenter -



If it does, then it needs to be adapted to the convention of using 
British English spelling: the 'center' bit should be 'centre'. And I 
can't imagine anyone in the UK writing 'testcentre' as a single word. I 
think it would normally be 'test centre', so the tag value should be 
test_centre.


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Re: [Tagging] "building=college" tag missing from building key page

[Steve Doerr]

On 07/12/2017 18:31, Marco Boeringa wrote:
College, as Vao Matua also pointed out, usually refers to secondary 
school / high school age education


Not in the UK, I'm afraid. It tends to refer to adult education of one 
form or another. Or else an alternative to school for 17-to-18-year-olds 
('sixth-form college').


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Re: [Tagging] amenity=atm + man_made=surveillance

[Steve Doerr]

On 06/12/2017 17:29, Fernando Trebien wrote:
Do you agree that it is adequate to combine amenity=atm with 
man_made=surveillance on the same element?


Yes, if the ATM incorporates a surveillance camera.

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Re: [Tagging] tagging of one-way cycle lanes

[Steve Doerr]

On 12/05/2018 12:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
Actually, while I know about and abide to the wiki definition, I don't 
think it is intuitive to count some lanes and other not.


We do that because of a UN convention: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2011-September/008578.html


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Re: [Tagging] Mapping generic sheds

[Steve Doerr]

On 04/05/2018 10:18, pelderson wrote:

Van: Volker Schmidt  


> The problem is that (British) English does not have a word for a 
generic animal-stable. "stable" is for horses. "cow shed" is for 
bovines, "pigsty" for pigs.

> In the US a "barn" may include animal sheltering, but not in UK-English.


> The Oxford does not make that distiction. Generally, barn and shed 
are about what the building looks like. That would be consistent with 
building=*. The usage or function of the building is a much more fleeting

> attribute, which should imho be tagged separately.

Actually, the Oxford English Dictionary has these definitions for 'barn' 
(http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/15619):


 a. A covered building for the storage of grain; and, in wider usage, 
of hay, straw, flax, and other produce of the earth.


 b. Applied to: A barn-like building for worship.

 c. A stable or cattle-house. U.S.

Note that the animal usage is marked 'U.S.'.

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Re: [Tagging] Street exits

[Steve Doerr]

On 15/06/2018 09:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

I don’t know how the situation in the Netherlands, but in Germany pedestrians 
always have precedence over turning cars at junctions, this would be nothing 
special.


Even on the road you're turning out of? In the UK, a turning vehicle has 
to give way to pedestrians crossing *the road it is turning into*, but 
not the road it is already on.


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Re: [Tagging] Outdoor deckchairs

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/04/2018 22:22, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

Maybe sun lounge would be a better choice? 
http://streetfurniture.com/au/dev/product/mall-sun-lounge/





Not lounge! That usage may result from a confusion between the 
expression 'chaise longue' and the word 'lounge'. A lounge is a room. 
This item of furniture is perhaps a lounger, but not a lounge.


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Re: [Tagging] Bad topology way level 2

[Steve Doerr]

There is a philosophy in some parts that the roads of a particular class 
should form a continuous network with other roads of that class or 
higher, with no 'dead ends'. So primary roads should link to other 
primary roads or to trunks or motorways. In UK terms, 
highway=residential is equivalent to highway=unclassified with the 
additional attribute of having housing along it. So in theory, this link 
road could be considered highway=unclassified.



On the other hand the wiki at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#Link_roads consistently 
associates _link values with the higher of the two classifications 
connected, so primary_link is correct for linking a primary to a 
residential road.



Basically, these two philosophies are incompatible, and you're entitled 
to choose whichever one you prefer. And therefore to ignore any Osmose 
errors that do not apply to your chosen philosophy.



Steve


On 15/01/2018 18:17, OSMDoudou wrote:


Hello,

Osmose reports an error with reason "Bad topology way level 2" [1] at 
this place [2] and I don't know how to resolve it.


There are no buildings around that piece of highway (I'm talking about 
the small segment of road, not the residential or the primary highway 
around) and its sole purpose is clearly to link the primary and the 
residential road.


So, according to table on the wiki page [3], it should be tagged as 
primary_link, but then Osmose reports a topology error.


Am I missing something ?

How would you tag it ?

Thx.

[1] http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/error/15188159403

[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/36971912

[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_link



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Re: [Tagging] Proposed features - Voting - Pressurized waterways

[Steve Doerr]

ize is correct British English spelling - see the Oxford English Dictionary. 

Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Jan 2018, at 19:14, Colin Smale  wrote:
> 
> How about waterway=pressurised (with an s instead of a z) for correct 
> (British) English spelling which (unless I have missed something) is still 
> the lingua franca of OSM?
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> On 2018-01-22 19:40, François Lacombe wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Volker,
>> 
>> waterway=pressurized is compatible with both standard and pumping hydropower 
>> plants.
>> The doesn't cover power parts and hydraulic parts may be the same.
>> 
>> I've tested this tagging on a site with 2 different power plants, one is 
>> pumping and the second is standard (last is used to power up the first to 
>> start pumping)
>> Pumping : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3113489
>> Standard : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3113488
>> 
>> They use the same pipes, with waterway=pressurized on it.
>>  
>> Is this clear for you ?
>>  
>> François
>> 
>> 2018-01-22 19:12 GMT+01:00 Volker Schmidt :
>>> I would suggest to have something similar for the thousands of water 
>>> pumping stations here in the Veneto region of Northern Italy (Po valley), 
>>> and most likely hundreds of thousands world-wide.
>>> Not sure if it makes sense to put it in the same proposal. Certainly some 
>>> components are identical at least in appearance, but also most likely in 
>>> function.
>>> I see them daily,but am not an expert, unfortunately
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging for an American Wild & Scenic river

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/02/2018 02:00, Kevin Kenny wrote:
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:



I'm looking for tagging that will indicate that a particular river
in the United States is a "Wild and Scenic River" as defined by
the Wild & Scenic Rivers Act.




this is a peculiarly American designation


There's always the designation tag: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation


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Re: [Tagging] What is a VTC car in OSM ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 20/08/2018 22:05, yo paseopor wrote:
These days I am editing Barcelona's harbour. One of the things I saw 
there is some places for VTC car (like taxi but private: Uber, Cabify).



What does VTC stand for?


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Re: [Tagging] What is a VTC car in OSM ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/08/2018 09:55, José G Moya Y. wrote:
VTC is how rental cars with professional driver are called in Spain. I 
think the rest of the thread clarifies this: It is the Spanish name 
for Uber, Cabify and other companies that provide private transport 
services but are not taxis (their cars are not equipped with taxi meter).




But surely it stands for something? A word beginning with V, a word 
beginning with T, and a word beginning with C? What are those words?



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Re: [Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts

[Steve Doerr]

On 25/08/2018 01:17, Dave Swarthout wrote:
I've been trying to decide tagging for slow-vehicle turnouts 
consisting of a lane added to the right side (in the U.S.) of the road 
so that slow moving vehicles can pull aside to allow following 
vehicles to pass. The best I can come up with is the tag 
highway=passing_place



Sounds like a 'crawler lane' to me - has that been used in tagging anywhere?


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Re: [Tagging] What is a VTC car in OSM ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/08/2018 23:57, Jo wrote:

Vehículos de Turismo con Conductor



Thanks, Jo.

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Re: [Tagging] building = house vs detached.

[Steve Doerr]

On 22/07/2018 21:27, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

Probably the reason can be explained etymologically.

In the UK, terraced houses (AmE row houses) are very common, so those 
lucky enough to hear less noise from their neighbours emphasize that 
by owning a 'detached' (not attached to a terrace) or 'semi-detached' 
(two houses sharing a wall) building. The detached/semi-detached also 
allow outdoor access to the back garden, so the 'end-of-terrace' house 
is marketed with a similar advantage.


In a typical British terrace, each house has its own back garden.

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Re: [Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts

[Steve Doerr]

On 05/09/2018 09:41, Warin wrote:

On 05/09/18 18:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:





You can also “pass” an obstacle that stands still in English,


Close .. you may go past a house/school/shop. Not 'pass' a house/etc.



Sure you can. 'We passed the hospital on the way here' is perfectly good 
English.



Note that in 'passing place', as commonly used in the UK at least, the 
reference is usually to two vehicles going in opposite directions, so 
it's not the same as overtaking (though 'passing' does mean that as 
well, more often in fact).



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Re: [Tagging] What is a terrace after all?

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/09/2018 08:21, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


I agree that building=terrace is not a nice tag, I would prefer 
building=terraced_house


To my mind, a terrace consists of a number of terraced houses. Each 
house in the terrace is one terraced house, but the whole block of 
houses (mapped as a single object) is not a terraced house.



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Re: [Tagging] Difference between lighthouses and beacons

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/01/2018 02:16, Andrew Davidson wrote:

On 19/01/18 00:52, Janko Mihelić wrote:

Ok, the discussion at least came to an agreement that this:

https://imgur.com/a/U8SXn

is not a man_made=lighthouse. 


Don't be too sure about that. I thought that we could all agree that a 
lighthouse had some thing to do with light and houses, but it turns 
out that's not an universally held opinion.


Depends what you mean by 'houses'. The purpose of a lighthouse is to 
house a light: it doesn't need to house people. Here's the OED definition:


'A tower or other structure, with a powerful light or lights (originally 
a beacon) at the top, erected at some important or dangerous point on or 
near the sea-coast for the guidance of mariners.'


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag shop areas in a shopping mall ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/01/2018 16:48, OSMDoudou wrote:

When I tag the perimeter with indoor=room instead of building=yes, JOSM raises an error 
"Overlapping ways" for the segment B->C in this kind of layout:
A>B->E
^ | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
D<---C