Re: [Tagging] Fuzzy areas again: should we have them or not?

2020-12-23 Thread Andy Townsend
Hi all, I'll reply to this as me since the DWG's ticketing system was cc:ed on this mail and we can't reply from there because the messages will bounce. On 21/12/2020 15:42, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote: On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 8:01 AM Frederik Ramm > wrote:

Re: [Tagging] natural=fell not rendered, alternatives?

2020-12-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/12/2020 07:39, Anders Torger wrote: Hello, I'm doing further mapping of Swedish national parks, now in the mountains, and I have noted that natural=fell (habitat over tree line) is not rendered. Looking into why it seems that OSM-Carto implementors want more specific landcover tags

Re: [Tagging] edit war related to tagging of a bus-only major road

2020-12-10 Thread Andy Townsend
On 09/12/2020 14:36, Michael Tsang wrote: Dear all, I'm working with some roads in Central area in Hong Kong. Des Voeux Road Central is considered one of the most important roads in the area which I tagged it as highway=secondary, however another editor has repeatedly changed it to

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 134, Issue 130 animal tracks ?

2020-12-03 Thread Andy Townsend
On 03/12/2020 10:47, ael via Tagging wrote: On Wed, Dec 02, 2020 at 11:08:55PM +, Paul Allen wrote: Which then goes back to the discussions we were having a while back about tagging the "dangerousness" of tracks. hazard=extreme surely? Actually,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hazards

2020-11-27 Thread Andy Townsend
On 27/11/2020 04:25, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote: Assuming that the boundary of that area is reasonably permanent, my first reaction is that this could be described by military=danger_area.  However, that tag requires landuse=military as the primary tag, which probably isn't correct here. On

Re: [Tagging] coastline v. water

2020-11-25 Thread Andy Townsend
ch cases the DWG often reverts to the "status quo ante", and we think that makes sense here too. Best Regards, Andy Townsend, on behalf of the Data Working Group On 18/11/2020 20:19, Eric H. Christensen via Tagging wrote: After a few days of much work, a recent collaborative projec

Re: [Tagging] RFC: vaccination / COVID-19 vaccination centres

2020-11-25 Thread Andy Townsend
On 25/11/2020 12:54, Phake Nick wrote: I don't think it is appropriate to add one-off temporary facilities into OSM. As soon as you do the sums it seems pretty unlikely that these will be "one-off temporary facilities". Governments and health authorities may be able to move to a more

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (shop=direct marketing)

2020-10-02 Thread Andy Townsend
On 02/10/2020 08:58, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On 10/1/20 14:46, Wieland Kestler wrote: Hi everyone! Due to the discussion in the german OSM-Telegram-group I made a proposal for tagging points where people can buy e.g. game (meat) directly from the forester. For more details see the

Re: [Tagging] Powerbank Sharing Systems

2020-09-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/09/2020 12:47, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote: Maybe a proposal that needs voting on isn’t need but is it accepted to add things to the wiki without one? People certainly do do that (an example that comes to mind is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:verge ).  I don't see a

Re: [Tagging] Powerbank Sharing Systems

2020-09-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/09/2020 11:59, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name https://heychimpy.com https://www.wecharge.me I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems. You might be able to find some of them if you search

Re: [Tagging] Powerbank Sharing Systems

2020-09-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/09/2020 11:59, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name https://heychimpy.com https://www.wecharge.me I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems. Have you tried searching OSM data by name using

Re: [Tagging] tagging for fairgrounds

2020-08-27 Thread Andy Townsend
On 27/08/2020 17:04, Richard Welty wrote: so i'd like to propose one of these two "fairgrounds" is more of an American rather than a British English way of referring to these sorts of things, I think.  See https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2020-February/thread.html#24188 for

Re: [Tagging] bridge:name and tunnel:name

2020-08-23 Thread Andy Townsend
On 24/08/2020 01:12, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 23:45, Paul Allen > wrote: Theyargued that name should be the name of the road and bridge:name should be used for the name of the bridge.  Which did nothing to change all the

Re: [Tagging] Benches and hostile architecture

2020-08-23 Thread Andy Townsend
On 23/08/2020 21:22, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: The term "hostile architecture" is too vague. It is the normal British English (at least) description of this stuff. Best Regards, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] PTv2 public_transport=stop_position for stop positions that vary based on train length

2020-08-14 Thread Andy Townsend
On 12/08/2020 01:37, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging wrote: i have been to 11 stations in the last 3 weeks, the trains are not doing what the tags represent If you've done this, and care that stop positions are mapped in the correct place, then I'd suggest that you actually map these stop

[Tagging] PTv2 public_transport=stop_position for stop positions that vary based on train length

2020-08-07 Thread Andy Townsend
Hello, This is a question that actually arose out of a "how to tag" argument that's come to the attention of the DWG in the USA, but it's actually easy to describe in terms of data in the UK that I'm familiar with, so I'll do that. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/12004813 is a

Re: [Tagging] Rio de la Plata edit war

2020-07-31 Thread Andy Townsend
On 26/05/2020 00:20, Alan Mackie wrote: Has this edit war stabilised? Apparently it has been blocking coastline updates across the whole world for /months /now. https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html

Re: [Tagging] Hiking "guideposts" painted on rocks, trees etc.

2020-07-25 Thread Andy Townsend
On 25/07/2020 17:21, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 25/07/2020 07.06, Andy Townsend wrote: Why do people in OSM map anything?  I can't see any reason why I'd want to add urban buildings, or comprehensive address data, or a whole bunch of other things that people think are _really important_. How

Re: [Tagging] Hiking "guideposts" painted on rocks, trees etc.

2020-07-25 Thread Andy Townsend
(re adding guideposts to route relations) On 21/07/2020 22:18, Peter Elderson wrote: I think the Why question comes first! Why do people in OSM map anything?  I can't see any reason why I'd want to add urban buildings, or comprehensive address data, or a whole bunch of other things that

Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text

2020-07-25 Thread Andy Townsend
On 17/07/2020 16:24, Jan Michel wrote: Hi Andy, we already have (not well documented) tags for this: Either you use destination_sign relations as Sarah pointed out. Or, if you prefer a more simple approach, there are eight defined keys to add the information with approximate directions:

Re: [Tagging] Hiking "guideposts" painted on rocks, trees etc.

2020-07-22 Thread Andy Townsend
On 22/07/2020 16:08, pangoSE wrote: I suggest you add the guidepost to a node on the path instead. Please don't do this.  If there's a gate on one side of the road you wouldn't add that gate to the road itself, would you? I really think it would be nice to be able to say query and list all

Re: [Tagging] Hiking "guideposts" painted on rocks, trees etc.

2020-07-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/07/2020 20:37, pangoSE wrote: Andy Townsend skrev: (21 juli 2020 13:31:45 CEST) I've also been trying to add these (both guideposts and route markers) to the relevant hiking route relation. That does not sound right to me. Why would you do that? How would you indicate which relation

Re: [Tagging] Hiking "guideposts" painted on rocks, trees etc.

2020-07-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/07/2020 12:04, Michal Fabík wrote: Hi, in some parts of the world, it's common practice to paint guidepost information (destinations, distances etc.) on rock faces, trees, walls and similar existing surfaces, rather than use purpose-made plates attached to a pole. (Example:

Re: [Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

2020-07-18 Thread Andy Townsend
On 18/07/2020 19:41, Alan Mackie wrote: On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 at 19:09, Paul Allen > wrote: On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 at 18:53, Tod Fitch mailto:t...@fitchfamily.org>> wrote: What I’d like is one or two tags to indicate that all visible indications of

Re: [Tagging] site relations for city walls?

2020-07-12 Thread Andy Townsend
On 12/07/2020 20:13, Taskar Center wrote: Why is the relation type on the Berlin Wall a “collection” rather than “boundary”? Over its history as an object in OSM it's had a whole variety of tags.  Different people have said "This is important!  We should render it!" and have sometimes

Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?

2020-07-01 Thread Andy Townsend
On 30/06/2020 14:06, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: We have 15000 addresses such as addr:housename=3 ( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VBS ) Is there some chance that any of them is valid? Because it seems to me that editors should complain about addr:housename with just numbers. Any? 

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Should we map things that do not exist?

2020-06-06 Thread Andy Townsend
On 06/06/2020 16:18, Phake Nick wrote: 在 2020年6月6日週六 11:03,Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > 寫道: As a general tourist I would have no interest in traveling along a railway route here nothing remains of the railway. OSM is not *only* for general tourist.

Re: [Tagging] Reviving the path discussion - the increasing, importance of trails in OSM

2020-06-02 Thread Andy Townsend
On 02/06/2020 13:48, Volker Schmidt wrote: On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 09:04, Daniel Westergren > wrote: I think the reason that this is so messed up because of the desire to tag according to function.   A trail/path can have many users/functions,

Re: [Tagging] Reviving the path discussion - the increasing importance of trails in OSM

2020-05-22 Thread Andy Townsend
On 22/05/2020 15:55, Daniel Westergren wrote: And there actually seems to be a pull request finally solving the paved/unpaved rendering that was opened 7 years ago?!? https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/4137 If that makes it to the default map it will certainly help

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Recreational route relation roles

2020-05-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/05/2020 13:48, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: May 21, 2020, 14:17 by kevin.b.ke...@gmail.com: It's still tricky. Around here, few trails are actually signposted; some don't have a sign anywhere! They're marked with paint blazes in the woods, guideposts in the fields,

Re: [Tagging] Reviving the path discussion - the increasing importance of trails in OSM

2020-05-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/05/2020 10:50, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: Similarly anyone creating highway=footway + danger="you will be shot" + "access=no" + foot=yes" should probably switch to pickpocketing, telemarketing or other less harmful activity. While "danger" isn't a much used tag (and I'm

Re: [Tagging] relations & paths

2020-05-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/05/2020 12:28, Paul Allen wrote: On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 03:21, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org>> wrote: Any signed route may be mapped as a route relation. Depends how broadly or narrowly you define "signed route." And sometimes signed route

Re: [Tagging] Tag:amenity=motorcycle_taxi not approved

2020-05-08 Thread Andy Townsend
On 08/05/2020 14:04, s8evq wrote: And then some people in this very thread suggest to just ignore a rejection and start using it anyway. What's the use of the whole voting system then? Frankly, not much. Why even bother writing a proposal in the first place? I'll just do whatever. "I'll

Re: [Tagging] With leisure=common deprecated, Senegal & Mali need a replacement

2020-05-03 Thread Andy Townsend
On 03/05/2020 17:13, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: The deprecation was not discussed, and it was not done by anyone at OpenStreetMap Carto, BTW. Er - wasn't that https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3619 ? You commented in the discussion there... Best Regards, Andy

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-ml] With leisure=common deprecated, Senegal & Mali need a replacement

2020-05-03 Thread Andy Townsend
On 03/05/2020 16:12, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: So, this discussion gravitates towards using landuse=common for those African urban freely accessible multipurpose open spaces, which I fully support. Just to be clear you've said "landuse=common" above but "leisure=common" below?

Re: [Tagging] natural=water inside natural=wetland

2020-04-30 Thread Andy Townsend
On 30/04/2020 19:09, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 18:45, Andy Townsend via Tagging mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org>> wrote: There are always going to be edge cases that aren't easy to categorise.  There's an area just up the road from where I am currently that s

Re: [Tagging] natural=water inside natural=wetland

2020-04-30 Thread Andy Townsend via Tagging
On 30/04/2020 16:29, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > wetland area within a forest where trees are growing also within the wetland area That’s a “swamp”: natural=wetland + wetland=swamp https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:wetland%3Dswamp ... or it might be seasonal or intermittent, depending

Re: [Tagging] With leisure=common deprecated, Senegal & Mali need a replacement

2020-04-30 Thread Andy Townsend
On 30/04/2020 12:10, Peter Elderson wrote: Seems to me that a "common" is an adequate word for such a place, so =common would be right. That makes sense to me as well. What key to use? I think it's a use of the land. Actual use can vary, may be leisure, may be commerce, may be parking,

Re: [Tagging] Implied default access tags for barrier=stile?

2020-04-27 Thread Andy Townsend
On 26/04/2020 22:15, Philip Barnes wrote: On Sunday, 26 April 2020, s8evq wrote: Hello everyone, Are any default access tags implied with barrier=stile? Similar to barrier=bollard (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dbollard mentions "By default access=no, foot=yes, and

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Urgent Care

2020-04-05 Thread Andy Townsend
On 05/04/2020 16:36, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: Can someone confirm if "urgent_care" makes sense in British English, rather than "walk-in" or something else? I'm English, and I would not know what "urgent_care" meant. After reading the wiki page, it is unclear whether refers to designated

Re: [Tagging] iD semi automatic adding public_transport to aerialway=station

2020-03-31 Thread Andy Townsend
On 31/03/2020 15:08, Gegorian Hauser via Tagging wrote: I also opened yesterday a issue on the github site from iD but this was closed imediatly because of "there is nothing written in the Wiki" https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/7491 I guess? If the consensus here is that the

Re: [Tagging] Route names that aren’t names

2020-03-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/03/2020 19:16, Cascafico Giovanni wrote: Well, if somebody takes care of rendering [1] OSM data structure, situation doesn't look so bad. [1] https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#routelist?map=10!54.7983!-1.3075  Not really - that's just ignoring names on the main map and showing

Re: [Tagging] Number of route relation errors very much reduced

2020-03-23 Thread Andy Townsend
On 23/03/2020 10:38, Peter Elderson wrote: I am very happy to report that my current check finds very few integrity errors, and the few I see are not caused by using a specific editing tool. Compliments to the "ID-people", you have done it! Great! This does not mean ID is now a good

Re: [Tagging] Ponds are not observable on the ground

2020-03-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/03/2020 13:15, pangoSE wrote: Hi IMO pond should not be mapped because it is not observable on the ground. How do you determine if it is "artificially created"/"man made"? Most ponds that I add are as a result of survey, so "should not be mapped because it is not observable on the

Re: [Tagging] Annual Shows

2020-02-25 Thread Andy Townsend
On 25/02/2020 22:16, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: But I have seen a few places on the map where a street motor race is held once a year, but they are mapped as a motor racing track, with a description "whatever race held the first weekend of October". The more normal mapping approach is like

Re: [Tagging] URL tracking parameters

2020-02-25 Thread Andy Townsend
On 25/02/2020 10:16, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 25.02.20 11:08, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: Since OSM is not the place for marketing, I would in these situations remove the whole POI, and not just the tracking parameters. ¿Que? You'd remove an entire hotel from the map

[Tagging] Service road surface edits in the UK (was: Re: implied surface values?)

2020-02-12 Thread Andy Townsend
On 12/02/2020 11:51, ael wrote: +1. Some of the Amazon people do seem to be adding unnecessary and unsurveyed surface=asphalt tags to many roads in the UK which I find quite irritating. If anyone's adding surface=asphalt when it isn't I'd definitely raise that via a changeset discussion

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

2020-02-05 Thread Andy Townsend
On 05/02/2020 19:17, Christoph Hormann wrote: - in other words: Special casing exactly the situation in question to be treated as an exception. Hedges historically were treated as areas if appropriate, whereas other barriers were not.

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

2020-02-05 Thread Andy Townsend
On 05/02/2020 17:24, Christoph Hormann wrote: With "only feasible alternative" i means the only alternative that has even a remote chance for consensus among the maintainers. Ah! OK - that's much more understandable. About the "removing tags where they may clash" point, here's an example:

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

2020-02-05 Thread Andy Townsend
On 05/02/2020 14:46, Christoph Hormann wrote: On Wednesday 05 February 2020, Andy Townsend wrote: It doesn't sound like a tagging issue to me; I'd suggest that the renderer that made this change did so in error.  Is using a different renderer an option until it is fixed (perhaps

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

2020-02-05 Thread Andy Townsend
On 05/02/2020 13:02, Jeroen Hoek wrote: This update has the unfortunate side-effect of breaking the rendering of over 1 hedges in the Netherlands. This means that hedges are often mapped as areas, using the documented tag pair of `barrier=hedge` plus `area=yes`: In this case sounds like

Re: [Tagging] Active volcanoes

2020-01-29 Thread Andy Townsend
On 29/01/2020 20:47, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: Wikidata already has the GVP property: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1886 So it's just a matter of ensuring that all volcanoes tracked by the GVP is present in Wikidata and has the correct P1886 value. To a regular human being

Re: [Tagging] highway=path for *all* mixed foot/bicycle highways?

2020-01-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/01/2020 22:44, Dave F via Tagging wrote: On 28/01/2020 21:23, Tomas Straupis wrote:    Yet for ten years ... I think your mistaken ... If it helps, someone on anther OSM list went through the previous times this has been discussed and came up with

Re: [Tagging] highway=path for *all* mixed foot/bicycle highways?

2020-01-27 Thread Andy Townsend
On 27/01/2020 17:19, Dave F via Tagging wrote: On 27/01/2020 16:41, Mike Thompson wrote: I have never understood the use of tags like "cycleway", "bridleway", and "footway."  To me these mix two different concepts (physical form and legal access) in a single tag. These values do not

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/01/2020 12:03, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 15 Jan 2020, 12:57 by marc_marc_...@hotmail.com: I'm very unhappy with that. Please, please comment on the OSM Wiki if you want to comment. What would be useful is a separate discussion about what wiki "data items" are and why there are a

Re: [Tagging] How to revive a tag proposal?

2020-01-14 Thread Andy Townsend
On 14/01/2020 17:33, António Madeira via Tagging wrote: What can I do to revive this proposal and implement this tag? Just use the tag? You can see existing values for "man_made" at https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/man_made#values , and you can search in there for "mill" or "olive".

Re: [Tagging] recreational vs functional routes

2020-01-09 Thread Andy Townsend
On 09/01/2020 23:14, Peter Elderson wrote: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven I think; Those who bicycle know why there needs to be these classes. Those who don't ride a bicycle regularly see no need for these classes. I wonder which of these groups you think I am in...

Re: [Tagging] amenity=tourist_bus_parking

2020-01-08 Thread Andy Townsend
On 08/01/2020 10:14, Volker Schmidt wrote: What about going back to the wiki and make use of the fact that amenity=parking_space can be used for this. Make separate parking space areas for different vehicle types. Add parking

Re: [Tagging] depreciate recycling:metal in favor of recycling:scrap_metal

2020-01-02 Thread Andy Townsend
On 31/12/2019 15:27, Volker Schmidt wrote: What's the difference between "metal" and "scrap metal". I would have thought any metal can be recycled (if the rightful owner is OK with that). What am I missing? It depends on the context I suspect.  If we're describing bins at the local tip, then

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary

2019-12-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/12/2019 11:40, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 21 Dec 2019, 12:00 by wolfg...@lyxys.ka.sub.org: I suggest to keep the road classification consistent at least within a country and try to solve the problem of roads in low-zoom maps at the rendering level, by modifying the list of

Re: [Tagging] pavement placed plaque

2019-12-20 Thread Andy Townsend
On 20/12/2019 20:41, ael wrote: On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 06:02:50PM +, Dave F via Tagging wrote: Hi I've a carved stone plaque(?) that's fixed flush into the pavement. it's to indicate the start/finish point of a long distance walk. https://whatsdavedoing.com/cotswold-way-guide/#start Two

Re: [Tagging] Public WLAN boxes

2019-12-18 Thread Andy Townsend
On 18/12/2019 15:22, Tod Fitch wrote: In the U.S. it would be called wifi or wi-fi rather than wlan. Anyone know what the British English is? In the UK it's also "wifi" or "wi-fi", but wlan is understood and has considerable establishment in OSM:

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - hiking_trail_relation_roles

2019-12-07 Thread Andy Townsend
> Cannot be legal for a pedestrian route, I think Statements like this suffer from an effect a bit like "Betteridge's law of headlines", in this case "any absolute statement that something that is true in one place is also true everywhere else in the world is false". I can certainly think of

Re: [Tagging] Route node roles - was Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - hiking_trail_relation_roles

2019-12-06 Thread Andy Townsend
On 06/12/2019 23:30, Warin wrote: Start and finish points will be at the end of the main route ways .. should be obvious? No? It depends - as Sarah's already pointed out, routes that are more complicated than "one start and one end" are very common.  One of the more famous examples is the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - hiking_trail_relation_roles

2019-12-06 Thread Andy Townsend
On 06/12/2019 10:15, Michael Behrens wrote: There is no unique way to tag roles in hiking route relations I'd suggest making it clear that that table is currently for way members only - it doesn't mention node members (start, end, marker, etc.).  This may be deliberate, or you just haven't

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (contact:phone)

2019-12-04 Thread Andy Townsend
On 04/12/2019 12:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Sören Reinecke wrote: This proposal tends to make Key:contact:phone the official tag for tagging phone numbers and to deprecate Key:phone which is not fitting in the idea of grouping keys. Anyway it's bad to have two keys for the exact same purpose

Re: [Tagging] Use of a site relation for grouping parking spaces

2019-12-03 Thread Andy Townsend
On 03/12/2019 18:59, Alessandro Sarretta wrote: Should we maybe rephrase the sentence "Parking spaces *always have to* be grouped together in a site relation tagged with type=site + site=parking." in something like "Parking spaces *can* be grouped together in a site relation tagged with

Re: [Tagging] Barrier=berm

2019-11-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/11/2019 13:03, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 12:45, Andy Townsend <mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com>> wrote: Tagging 2 things to represent 1 physical feature just makes it extra-hard for anyone consuming the data. Yet we have a very similar problem with "t

Re: [Tagging] Barrier=berm

2019-11-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/11/2019 11:42, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:56, Andy Townsend <mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com>> wrote: OSM Carto, as far as I'm aware * Doesn't have a concept of 2-sided embankments or a rendering for them Does it need such a concept?  I haven't trie

Re: [Tagging] Barrier=berm

2019-11-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/11/2019 09:59, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 00:23, Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote: Question of my own - is there any particular reason that a berm couldn't just be rendered the same as a wall? That question prompts another question. Why

Re: [Tagging] Business which sells static caravans / mobile homes: shop=mobile_home or shop=static_caravan?

2019-11-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/11/2019 11:03, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: A search of "static caravans" and "for sale" finds many previously-owned static caravans but does not show results for a specialty retailer of these residential caravans. The places that I've seen these advertised for sale in the UK have all I

Re: [Tagging] Additional detail of Levee mapping via embankments

2019-11-16 Thread Andy Townsend
On 11/16/19 9:21 AM, John Willis via Tagging wrote: Still looking for feedback on the idea, Specifically: - lower base way or area sharing nodes with the top line in embankment / cutting, etc? - relation or no relation needed? - map levee with embankment pairs, or map with two pairs of

Re: [Tagging] emergency=ambulance_station vs amenity=fire_station

2019-11-12 Thread Andy Townsend
On 12/11/2019 11:20, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am Di., 12. Nov. 2019 um 11:49 Uhr schrieb Dave F via Tagging mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org>>: Is OSM-Carto fit to be promoted as OSM's flagship, de-facto rendering? Dave, I find it extremely unfair to write this explicitly to Joseph,

Re: [Tagging] How to tag Seveso sites ?

2019-11-10 Thread Andy Townsend
On 10/11/2019 09:53, Jan Michel wrote: This seems like there are varying definitions in different countries, but all aim at basically the same thing - potential hazards to the environment. How about this scheme? hazard_class = comah:XYZ hazard_class = seveso:XYZ For completeness the UK

Re: [Tagging] How to tag Seveso sites ?

2019-11-08 Thread Andy Townsend
On 08/11/2019 09:44, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: My first guess is it's at least roughly analogous to a Superfund site in the US. That's what I thought at first reading too, but perhaps its meant more to describe somewhere where a disaster might happen rather than one where one already has? The

Re: [Tagging] Traffic Signs "pushing bicycle not allowed here"

2019-11-07 Thread Andy Townsend
On 07/11/2019 13:39, marc marc wrote: Le 07.11.19 à 14:01, Andy Townsend a écrit : you won't see a unique sign that identifies "you can't cycle here" an good practice rule is "don't map the legislation", isn't it ?? If you can infer defaults from legislation, sure, b

[Tagging] Traffic Signs (was: Re: Is there a good way to indicate "pushing bicycle not allowed here"?)

2019-11-07 Thread Andy Townsend
On 07/11/2019 10:26, marc marc wrote: Hello, Le 06.11.19 à 19:55, Mark Wagner a écrit : There are places like federal Wilderness Areas in the United States where possession of a bicycle is forbidden can you share the a picture of this traffic sign ? As an aside, it's worth mentioning that

Re: [Tagging] Is there a good way to indicate "pushing bicycle not allowed here"?

2019-11-05 Thread Andy Townsend
On 05/11/2019 13:00, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: I just created https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bicycle%3Ddismount to document why it is used and why it is anyway duplicate of bicycle=no. On the page I claim that "In some places it is illegal to both ride and push bicycle, there is no good

Re: [Tagging] amenity=hospital on things that are not hospitals - is it a good idea?

2019-10-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/10/2019 10:11, marc marc wrote: Le 28.10.19 à 09:44, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit : "sign having a hospital icon and no name can simply be tagged type=destination_sign + amenity=hospital" https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:destination_sign Yes it's horrible the next line said

Re: [Tagging] Hunting stands, bird and wildlife hides

2019-10-22 Thread Andy Townsend
On 22/10/2019 15:36, Ilya Zverev wrote: For some reason people don’t write its purpose on a side. And again, images in three of these pages are the same. This probably varies around the world, but I suspect in many places the intended use is pretty obvious (if not actually written on the

Re: [Tagging] How to tag pedestrian lanes?

2019-10-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/10/2019 14:14, Paul Allen wrote: (for the kerb separated way, no idea about the marking separated way) Me neither.  I'm not sure we have them. They do exist - I believe that https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/172228211 (or one of the sections to the north) is or was like that. 

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

2019-10-11 Thread Andy Townsend
On 11/10/2019 12:51, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 11 Oct 2019, 12:37 by rich...@systemed.net (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise unsuitable.) Can you list made-up lines

Re: [Tagging] Was there every a proposal for the disused:key=* / abandoned:key=* lifecycle prefixes?

2019-09-26 Thread Andy Townsend
On 26/09/2019 17:09, Markus wrote: Thus, those disused toilets could be tagged: disused:building=toilets No, it's still a building.  "building=toilets" means that the type of the building was "toilets".  It doesn't say anything about whether it was a usable amenity or not. and separately

Re: [Tagging] Was there every a proposal for the disused:key=* / abandoned:key=* lifecycle prefixes?

2019-09-26 Thread Andy Townsend
On 26/09/2019 16:48, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Paul Allen wrote: BTW, that's on national cycle route 82, so whether or not it really is a pub would be of interest to some mappers. Oh, has that closed? That's a shame. (I stayed in St Dogmaels a few years ago, thought the Castle Inn looked

Re: [Tagging] Default values for surface by road category and country

2019-09-23 Thread Andy Townsend
On 23/09/2019 09:14, Volker Schmidt wrote: every mapper can set his own, as you doe and I do, but this means that a router has to second guess what people think is standard use in different countries. That is exactly how it works. In general, tagging surface

Re: [Tagging] [Key:phone] - Suggesting wiki page changing

2019-09-22 Thread Andy Townsend
On 22/09/2019 11:20, Andy Mabbett wrote: On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 19:49, Valor Naram via Tagging wrote: I want to change the wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone throw a Proposal process to do certain things: - Protecting the wiki page against "wild changes" We generally

Re: [Tagging] Draft proposal for Key:aerodrome

2019-09-10 Thread Andy Townsend
On 10/09/2019 11:28, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: That seems like a bad idea because aerodrome:type is one of the ways that mappers distinguish between military and non-military airfields. military=airfield + landuse=military is the standard way to do this. I wasn't making any comment about what

Re: [Tagging] Draft proposal for Key:aerodrome

2019-09-10 Thread Andy Townsend
On 10/09/2019 08:35, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: It would deprecate aeroway=airstrip and aerodrome:type=* That seems like a bad idea because aerodrome:type is one of the ways that mappers distinguish between military and non-military airfields. That, combined with whether the object has an iata

Re: [Tagging] Walking & Cycling Node Network tagging: undoing the hijacking of rcn and rwn

2019-09-01 Thread Andy Townsend
On 29/08/2019 15:52, Peter Elderson wrote: LS With the arrival of cycling node networks, the Dutch, German and Belgian mappers decided to claim (hijack)  the network value rcn for those node networks. This exception was copied with the claim of network=rwn for the walking node networks.

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-25 Thread Andy Townsend
On 25/08/2019 23:18, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: What should we do with a page like Tag:landcover=dunes? I already tried adding a mention that natural=dune was more common and mentioned on the Talk page that "dune" is a landform, not a landcover, but this was reverted. I'd be tempted to set a

Re: [Tagging] bear box in campground ?

2019-08-21 Thread Andy Townsend
On 21/08/2019 19:03, Mark Wagner wrote: On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 11:44:41 -0600 Rob Savoye wrote: Many western state campgrounds have metal bear proof food storage boxes in each campsite, but not all of them. At certain times of the year this can be important. :-) Around here the bears will

[Tagging] Garmin waypoints and routes (was: "Roles of route members" and before that "Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking")

2019-08-20 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/08/2019 19:04, Peter Elderson wrote: Ok, I accept I just don't know how it's done. So how is that done? How do I tell my Garmin to guide me along, say, the Limes trail through the Netherlands? Essentially, you'd just look at the screen and follow that!  I tend to use waypoints for an

Re: [Tagging] Signposts in Roles of route members

2019-08-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/08/2019 09:50, Volker Schmidt wrote: Let me also introduce a further complication in the "sorting" discussion for hiking and cycling route relations. Some mappers like the idea to keep signposts in the same route relation as the ways making up the route. By way of example, here's one

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/08/2019 17:21, Peter Elderson wrote:  the only way for the likes of me is to use detection tools and maintenance tools to order data by hand at the mapping level, so ordinary people can use waymarkedtrails to get usable linear gpx-s for their basecamps, route editors, trip planners,

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-17 Thread Andy Townsend
> You want to do the routing. I want to avoid that, because the routing has already been done. To be clear, I want to navigate from where I currently am to where

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-17 Thread Andy Townsend
> apps like OsmAnd, Garmin devices, and planner applicationsI can answer the Garmin bit of that, as it's something that I do all the time.Firstly, the ability to

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-17 Thread Andy Townsend
You haven't answered the question - I asked "Where are you going from and where are you going to?" in order to try and understand what real-life problem you're trying to solve. "I would like the ways of a relation to be sorted" is not a real-life problem.  What navigation software are you using

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-17 Thread Andy Townsend
> but I would like to see one make a plausible navigation route out of the E2 > Yorkshire relation as it is now. Where are you going from and where are you going to?  Without that information "make a plausible navigation route out of the E2 Yorkshire relation" makes no sense.  You could

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-17 Thread Andy Townsend
On 17/08/2019 07:28, Peter Elderson wrote: Gpx gaps in some software do show up as straight lines. If it's just a missing piece and the rest is in order, no problem. In the case of the E2 in Yorkshire, lots of straight lines. Feed that to a navigation device and it will have you start in

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-16 Thread Andy Townsend
On 16/08/2019 20:00, Paul Allen wrote: On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 19:43, s8evq > wrote: [1] [make it more clear that the walking route has to be signed in order to map it. As it is stated now, you could read it that a named hiking route is sufficient to be

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