Good morning, All.
I am one of the representative of OSM/PocketGis team. At this moment we have
70+ active members of the both projects (OSM and PocketGis) simultaneously
http://tinyurl.com/y3cotlt . We operate mainly in Moscow region, but we have
active memebers throughout the whole western
Hi,
Eugene Iline wrote:
And that is all that happens. It seems to me that this little local rule
of excluding landuse=military on the territory of Russian Federation
will give OSM in Russia clear chanses not to be negatively influenced by
state officials.
It is perfectly ok for you to
2010/4/12 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
The one thing that is *not* ok is changing existing landuse=military tags
*in the main database* to something else. This is the one important thing I
took from Komяpa's message - people attempting to remove information from
OSM hoping to please
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
Eugene Iline wrote:
And that is all that happens. It seems to me that this little local rule
of excluding landuse=military on the territory of Russian Federation
will give OSM in Russia clear chanses not to be negatively influenced by
state officials.
It is
Eugene Iline wrote:
2010/4/12 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org mailto:frede...@remote.org
The one thing that is *not* ok is changing existing landuse=military
tags *in the main database* to something else. This is the one
important thing I took from Komяpa's message - people
Frederik, is it possible in Germany to give away state secret (if you know
that some combination of information is not to be published for the reason
that it is a secret by the law, only in combination) without being judged?
You may say that to know a secret you must be allowed by the secret
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
In this case for publishing I suggest to re-render it with stuff
filtered out. Question is - how to automate it? In meantime, it would
be nice to have some service where you can render/get planet.xml with
stuff
That is not the core problem, please do not extrapolate. That is not as wide
as you understand.
We take here only one or two laws concerning state secret. And that has very
little in common with, as you said, Soviet law (with the same dose of
paranoia, of course).
There is no word in these law
Hi,
Eugene Iline wrote:
Moreover you can never know the truth about the object behind the wall,
I repeat. The only truth on ground is that this is a wall and access is
prohibited.
That's another situation then. If there's just a wall and armed guards
then it might not appropriate to tag it
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
But even as the most law-abiding citizen I have no legal obligation to
log in to a database kept in another country and remove information
about my country's military installations from there, or even try to
convince
The question with Eugene seems to be about mapping what is physically seen
from outside rather than mapping the outside.
Some people see some trees and paths so map it as a park. That is like
seeing big fences and army guards and mapping it as military.
If at the park you see a sign Welcome to
Hi,
On 12 April 2010 08:32, Eugene Iline evge...@ily.in wrote:
Moreover, in general it is often not possible to distinguish each object
with a wall or fence around it even with a building with a plate control
checkpoint or military unit # on it as an object owned by military,
so the only
Hi all,
As far as I understand, there is a point that produces a lot of
headache, namely that the same piece of data may be secret and at the
same time clearly visible by anyone passing by. Say, the numbers of
military bases turn out to be secret (http://tinyurl.com/yaddwqg), but
at least some of
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Dmitry Granovsky
Another issue which surprises me immensely is that in Russia a lot of
open (=not secret) data gathered together and structured may allegedly
result in secret data. Could anyone from, say, Germany or UK comment
on this?
In Sweden you have to
2010/4/12 Dmitry Granovsky dima.granov...@gmail.com:
Another issue which surprises me immensely is that in Russia a lot of
open (=not secret) data gathered together and structured may allegedly
result in secret data. Could anyone from, say, Germany or UK comment
on this?
For Germany this is
On 13 April 2010 01:32, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/4/12 Dmitry Granovsky dima.granov...@gmail.com:
Another issue which surprises me immensely is that in Russia a lot of
open (=not secret) data gathered together and structured may allegedly
result in secret data.
Hi,
As was mentioned above, I'm not Russian citizen, I'm from Belarus,
which has a lot stricter laws sometimes.
This message represents my point of view, that may or may not be
supported by other members. Most of the quotes are approximate, since
initially they were badly grammatically
2010/4/12 Komяpa m...@komzpa.net
Second, a bit about Wikimapia. Wikimapia: 1) is a project that is
hosted in Russia and by russian citizens
One more lie:
P address: 67.220.205.212
Host name: wikimapia.org
Alias:
wikimapia.org
67.220.205.212 is from United States(US) in region North America
military, but it is used/guarded by them. It would surprise me if there are
no signs to tell you it is something to do by the military.
There are nice echelon sites in germany which just have high fences and signs
warning about high voltage.
But plate stating something about military or use
Hi,
Komяpa wrote:
This message represents my point of view, that may or may not be
supported by other members. Most of the quotes are approximate, since
initially they were badly grammatically constructed and can't be
directly translated to English. If I had totally misunderstod
something,
2010/4/12 Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com:
2010/4/12 Komяpa m...@komzpa.net
Second, a bit about Wikimapia. Wikimapia: 1) is a project that is
hosted in Russia and by russian citizens
One more lie:
It's an out of date information but that doesn't change the fact that
the Russian
2010/4/13 andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com
For the record I'm much more likely to trust Komzpa who's a long time
contributor to the community than someone who thinks citizenship has
any meaning at all in an argument.
Komzpa is out of reach of Russian state authorities. Russian citizens
2010/4/12 Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com:
2010/4/13 andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com
For the record I'm much more likely to trust Komzpa who's a long time
contributor to the community than someone who thinks citizenship has
any meaning at all in an argument.
Komzpa is out of
On 12 April 2010 13:21, Johann H. Addicks addi...@gmx.net wrote:
military, but it is used/guarded by them. It would surprise me if there
are
no signs to tell you it is something to do by the military.
There are nice echelon sites in germany which just have high fences and
signs
warning
Komzpa is out of reach of Russian state authorities. Russian citizens are
not. That is the only thing I wanted to tell specifing that he is from
Belorussia.
Official german map providers have a very nice tagging for military areas and
other not public areas owned by the gouvernment, they do
2010/4/13 andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com
For the record I'm much more likely to trust Komzpa who's a long time
contributor to the community than someone who thinks citizenship has
any meaning at all in an argument.
Komzpa is out of reach of Russian state authorities. Russian citizens
On 13 April 2010 08:37, ed...@billiau.net wrote:
1. use a different tag which is not industrial. You don't need a wiki
vote, you can just decide that in Russia these places are
landuse=special (perhaps use a suitable russian word). It is important
that this tag does not render. Then no
Hi,
Kirill Bestoujev wrote:
We (PocketGis team) are currently making some efforts to prove to our
state authorities that OSM data can be used by anyone, in any way. This
is only possible if that data contains nothing that violates Russian
legislation.
You have just explained that using
We have a similar issue in France about illegal content in OSM. I'ts
about... individual addresses. Our data privacy laws consider an individual
address as an indirect private information (even anonymized). This law is an
exception in Europe and might change in the near future but until then, we
Frederik,
He did not give an exhaustive list of all the censorship laws, rules
and regulations of his country. Rather he was just giving a little bit
of background information.
If there is something in the Russian DB that their government wants us
to remove, then we should remove it. Otherwise
Hi all,
If there is something in the Russian DB that their government wants us
to remove, then we should remove it. Otherwise it could escalate to
the point where they block osm.org, or even have an edit war between
us and hackers employed by the KGB^H^H^H Russian Intelligence. The
entities
2010/4/11 Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com:
I'm a member of that team. I.'m one of those who voted for changing the
rules of mapping military in Russia. The reason for that was NOT the
problems to OUR project, but problems to the possibility to legally use OSM
in Russia.
It's nice to have
On 11 April 2010 12:37, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote:
Frederik,
He did not give an exhaustive list of all the censorship laws, rules
and regulations of his country. Rather he was just giving a little bit
of background information.
If there is something in the Russian DB that their
2010/4/11 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com
I'd like to suggest that you take down the forum post pointing people
to mass-vote on the OSM wiki. How we decide things as a project isn't
a function of how many people you can convince to mass-register for
the wiki.
This was a call not to
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 14:17, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/4/11 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com
It's useful to check out some of the lengths Wikipedia (especially
local language editions) go to to bend over backwards for national
law.
Wikipedia is not a good
On 12 April 2010 00:37, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote:
I appreciate the predicament and as I pointed out it may very well be
that removing landuse=military from Russia is the least worst option
for everyone involved.
Removing data just because a country doesn't like it isn't a
There are to projects, one already launched and one bing prepared, similar
to OSM, but both sponsored by big companies -one by Yandex (our Russian
biggest search engine, could say local Google) the other - by on of the
leading Russain navigation software companies. The do know very well that
Hello,
Let me followup on this topic. I am Russian citizen and I didn't
want this problem to appear on this list. I hoped that we could solve
it ourselves.
I second all the information that Komяpa provided.
Also, all the arguments that were provided to Kirill by Frederik, John,
Liz and
2010/4/12 Gleb Smirnoff gleb...@glebius.int.ru:
The argument about China is new, however. Thanks.
Here's a link with more information
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-03/07/content_821274.htm
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
The military issue has come up with OSM before. My thoughts:
Most of the time mapping military areas is not a security risk, but perhaps
mapping the roads and buildings inside them (if you can't see them from
outside the area). Anyone can take these notes, and if they are for bad
intentions they
On 12 April 2010 09:18, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:
Most of the time mapping military areas is not a security risk, but perhaps
It's also useful to know target practice areas for safety reasons...
___
talk mailing list
Hi all,
Let me tell some news about what the hell is going on in russian OSM
community (wiki+forum).
First, there's some strange voting on wiki. http://tinyurl.com/y8etzgy
It's about mapping military objects. The strange tings are that it
didn't have proper RFC period, one of the things it
Komяpa,
the OSM Wiki does not have a binding character. Winning or losing a
vote does not mean that someone has the right to mass-delete data from OSM.
With near certainty it is not illegal for OSM to keep data about
military installations in Russia on its servers.
It may or may not be
On 11 April 2010 08:46, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
But there is no reason and no legitimation to remove the stuff from OSM,
no matter what the outcome of a vote on the matter is. You are welcome
to explain this to those who seem to have made it their goal to win
the vote.
This
44 matches
Mail list logo
