Re: [talk-au] Track route names used to name paths

Agreed, if I understand you correctly. In the case of something like the Great North Walk, it can be a bit of a grey area as not only the main track, but many of the feeder tracks are labelled Great North Walk. If you didn't know the history of the tracks, you could easily assume it's all just

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

for example. This could be useful for working with NPWS. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 25/02/2024 11:09 pm, Tom Brennan wrote: I thought I'd see if the tagging details in the US Trail Access Project link migh

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

I can agree with the last sentence, but not much else. I think most of the people in this thread genuinely want to work with the various parks services to get OSM solutions that work for both parks and the OSM community. We don't currently have any good communication channels. If we can get

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 26/02/2024 12:01 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: It would be interesting to see what Strava shows, so yes, please, Tom, I'd like to see the OT link. Thanks Graeme On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 at 22:22, Tom

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

d, informal=yes). Mark P. On 23 Feb 2024, at 7:29 pm, Tom Brennan wrote: Given this thread is still going, the US has a useful collaboration resource between mappers and land managers https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Trail_A

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

/09/2023 10:20 am, Tom Brennan wrote: Tricky one. I have sympathy for Land Managers. There can be many reasons why they don't want people visiting a place, and why they don't want tracks on a map which might encourage it. But simply deleting the tracks from OSM is not the best way t

Re: [talk-au] Road corridors with no road - what access?

In NSW these are known as Crown Roads, or 'paper roads' (where they are not constructed). They are administered by the state government, and in theory, access is public. It can be hard to tell just by looking at parcel data whether something is a Crown Road or not. There has been a program in

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

I agree that environmental preservation doesn't generally need to be in conflict with ground truth. If an area of a park - or tracks - is closed by land managers, tracks in that area should be tagged accordingly. By simply deleting tracks from OSM, mappers are more likely to add the tracks a

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

Tricky one. I have sympathy for Land Managers. There can be many reasons why they don't want people visiting a place, and why they don't want tracks on a map which might encourage it. But simply deleting the tracks from OSM is not the best way to go about it unless the "tracks" were simply b

Re: [talk-au] Dual naming in NSW

ICMS principles state: "In Australia, whichever of the two names of the same feature that is most likely to be used by the local community is to be used first in a sequence [Refer Appendix A, § 4.5]. The sequence of the name should be reviewed at regular intervals. If a visual separator is requ

[talk-au] Dual naming in NSW

There are an increasing number of places/features in NSW that are getting dual (aboriginal) naming. For example: - Booraghee / Bradleys Head - Cooyoyo / The Castle - Fort Denison / Muddawahnyuh From the point of view of the Geographic Names Board, there doesn't appear to be any primacy given t

Re: [talk-au] Streams and dams

tream waterway as passing through a dam. If someone wants to add the fine detail later they can, while still maintaining the connectivity of the waterway. So, broadly, yes, I think it’s much better if waterways pass through constructed reservoirs. Cheers Ian On 4 Jun 2023, at 9:48 pm, Tom Br

[talk-au] Streams and dams

Quick question on streams and dams/reservoirs. If a stream has been dammed, the centreline of the stream should still be mapped as a waterway. Correct? cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com ___

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

but that will then need to be re-imported, with the same issues as above. 3. The sheer quantity of unnamed streams So at this stage I'm not going to bother with the unnamed stream data cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

My main area of interest from a stream point of view is the Hawkesbury Catchment, outside the Sydney suburban boundaries. I haven't been involved in any imports so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. Could the dataset be split into say urban/non-urban and the non-urban parts imported? Or do

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

that CC BY 4 is not generally usable by itself. But was aware that many datasets for NSW have waivers!] cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 27/05/2023 5:06 pm, Warin wrote: On 26/5/23 14:51, Tom Brennan wrote: DCS Bas

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

On 26/05/2023 2:10 pm, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au wrote: > I also find streams useful to indicate the surrounding ground is > downhill towards them. Being at the bottom of a valley it is also > fairly obvious when you encounter one in person. > > They are often hard to map from aerial imagery as the

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

On 26/05/2023 1:54 pm, Josh Marshall wrote: > But I’ve also made relations for all of our local streams and creeks; > go to the Newcastle area and search for Ironbark or Cottage Creek for > instance… it used to just return a single hit on one small section > for almost every creek. My interest he

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

On 26/05/2023 4:39 pm, nwastra wrote: > The Surface Hydrology Lines covering all of Australia from GeoScience > Aust is available for use in osm and has a perenniality column > Australian Data Sources > Thanks, handy to know. That dat

Re: [talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

I could write a better algorithm. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 26/05/2023 7:56 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Thu, 25 May 2023 at 22:26, Tom Brennan <mailto:webs...@ozultimate.com>> wrote: I

[talk-au] Putting streams into OSM

I'm looking at adding missing stream data in national parks around Sydney. However, how much value is there in bringing in all of the stream data in say the DCS Base Map vs just the named streams? I can see for example, the value in bringing in named streams. But there are huge numbers of sma

Re: [talk-au] Mapping tracks from Strava heatmap

do make use of the strava heatmaps frequently to refine the route of known tracks, especially if there's lots of tree cover and you can't see the tracks too well in imagery. 10s or 100s of averaged GPS tracks is better than a single GPS track which you might record yourself.

Re: [talk-au] Mapping tracks from Strava heatmap

On 26/02/2023 6:19 pm, Tom Brennan wrote: Do people have a view on the armchair mapping of tracks from Strava heatmaps? I can see a bunch of tracks in Kanangra-Boyd NP that have been mapped by an overseas mapper off Strava heatmap. They almost certainly don't exist on the ground. They

Re: [talk-au] Mapping tracks from Strava heatmap

sh... a lot! Ewen On Sun, 26 Feb 2023 at 20:55, Tom Brennan <mailto:webs...@ozultimate.com>> wrote: Sorry, my bad! I should have linked the "track" on the other side of Whalania Creek: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/963735356 <https://www.openstreetm

Re: [talk-au] Mapping tracks from Strava heatmap

Sorry, my bad! I should have linked the "track" on the other side of Whalania Creek: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/963735356 cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 26/02/2023 8:20 pm, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Hi A

[talk-au] Mapping tracks from Strava heatmap

Do people have a view on the armchair mapping of tracks from Strava heatmaps? I can see a bunch of tracks in Kanangra-Boyd NP that have been mapped by an overseas mapper off Strava heatmap. They almost certainly don't exist on the ground. They are known bushwalking routes (off track), but wo

Re: [talk-au] Head or point on non-coastal land

On 26/07/2022 5:27 pm, Warin wrote: I have done a few of these along the Gross Valley. In many cases there is a peak and I have taken the view that the 'head' is the top of the peak. I did have a look at those. In general I would disagree with the 'head' being the top of the peak, based on Ge

[talk-au] Head or point on non-coastal land

What tag do you recommend using for heads or points that are away from the coast? There seem to be a variety of methods people have used, none of them particularly satisfactory: 1. Map them as a peak eg Catt Head: natural=peak https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4420272847 2. Map them as a loca

Re: [talk-au] Mapping shared driveways

y leading to a single residence. I think it's best we leave that intact and have a sibling tag service=pipestem for shared driveways. Otherwise you'll need to redefine service=driveway to be any type of shared or non-shared driveway and add a new tag driveway=single to most existing h

Re: [talk-au] Mapping shared driveways

I think I started the last discussion on this, so I'll wade in! Driveways are a bit of a nightmare - there are lots that don't fit neatly into one bucket or another. We did agree that service=driveway, driveway=pipestem was better than service=pipestem. It's probably 6 of one, half a dozen o

Re: [talk-au] Help with bikeways on roads please

The problem is that the street in question may not be part of a formal route. Sydney has a lot of streets with cycle infrastructure, that aren't part of a cycling route. I prefer CyclOSM for that reason. CyclOSM does a better job of showing bicycle infrastructure, as well as cycling routes.

Re: [talk-au] Help with bikeways on roads please

Nelson St looks like it needs a cycleway=shared_lane tag. Piper St looks OK. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 15/03/2022 11:51 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: I don't often map bikeways so need some help please.

Re: [talk-au] Path versus Footway

I suspect it might be hard to come up with definitive criteria, but I think you could come close. I agree that there do tend to be some edge cases - typically: 1. Dirt/roughly paved paths in urban areas - I prefer "path" for these, as they might be less suited to people with mobility issues 2.

Re: [talk-au] sac_scale [Was: Deletion of walking tracks/paths]

I think the AWTGS is a reasonable starting point for a trail/track difficulty scale that's relevant to Australia. However, I wasn't clear whether Grade 5 was supposed to cover everything above Grade 4, or whether there were things harder than Grade 5. If the former, I'd think there would need

Re: [talk-au] sac_scale [Was: Deletion of walking tracks/paths]

s Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 25/01/2022 8:36 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote: On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 at 18:32, Tom Brennan wrote: On a related (track-y), but slightly tangential note... Is there any consensus on the use of sac_

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of walking tracks/paths

On a related (track-y), but slightly tangential note... Is there any consensus on the use of sac_scale as the measure for trail difficulty in an Australian context? Personally, I hate the idea, because: - Australia has little in the way of real mountains - the values bear no relevance to Austr

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of walking tracks/paths

I was somewhat bemused by the comment: "As Ranger of Macquarie Pass National Park (New South Wales, Australia) I am writing to advise that these tracks either do not exist or are illegal tracks, which have been closed based on a risk assessment and legal advice following a serious incident. Ill

Re: [talk-au] Deletion of walking tracks/paths

On 24/01/2022 5:22 pm, Phil Wyatt wrote: I actually favour deletion as well but understand that is not the 'OSM way of doing things'. A full discussion may help the agency, and OSM contributors understand the issues on both sides. The issue with simply deleting them is that someone will no doubt

Re: [talk-au] US Trails Working Group

This is certainly a problem, and having walked in Utah, there are certainly some specific problems with walking off track there. However, it seems that land managers are looking at the threat without seeing the opportunity. Yes, unauthorised trails get publicised more quickly. But the flip sid

Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

On 26/11/21 7:16 am, Tom Brennan wrote: Quick question on unconnected ways. I've just mapped one: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1006252416 Probably best viewed in edit mode with an aerial photo underlay. This way is a physical path between two open grassed areas that themselv

[talk-au] Unconnected ways

Quick question on unconnected ways. I've just mapped one: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1006252416 Probably best viewed in edit mode with an aerial photo underlay. This way is a physical path between two open grassed areas that themselves have no discernible paths. So at this stage, all I h

Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

ingnsw.com On 24/09/2021 9:16 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan wrote: Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as separate ways? Yep. Here's one that I did recently: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.0

Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

I had never heard of "pipestem", but the actual key name isn't really relevant - any more than say "sidewalk" in Australia. The wiki definition for "pipestem" is "shared driveway", which is what we're looking to help distinguish from single driveway (service=driveway). https://www.openstreetm

Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

Yes, agree that legally public roads should be classified as highway=residential/unclassified or service=alley as appropriate. Pipestem (not pipestream :) ) is purely for shared (probably private) driveways. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http:

Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

just left it as a single service=driveway from the road to where it splits, then two (or however many) more driveways from that point to each house. Thanks Graeme On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan wrote: In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite

Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

t; like we already do for other tags at https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/id-editor/viewstrings/#en_AU/presets/179749902?q=translated%3Ayes On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan wrote: In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite a lot of shared driveways. Thi

[talk-au] Shared driveways

In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times. Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of land, on whi

Re: [talk-au] highway=service

On 14/08/2021 6:25 pm, Warin wrote: On 14/8/21 4:45 pm, Michael Collinson wrote:     3. parking areas     This one can also be a bit confusing - following the wiki, some     of these     end up being service=parking_aisle, but others are without     service=* eg:     https://www.openstreetmap.or

Re: [talk-au] highway=service

On 14/08/2021 11:59 am, Andrew Harvey wrote: 2. driveways (private property) -> service=driveway + access=private This seems pretty clear cut in residential areas. It also seems fairly clear for small business/industrial property that are for employees/business vehicles only. Where it gets a b

[talk-au] highway=service

Like my previous post on sidewalks, this one is also from walking and cycling all of the streets of my LGA (Willoughby). The other area where tagging seems to me to be a bit messy is: highway=service This messiness may be more of a general OSM issue than specifically an Australian one! Wher

Re: [talk-au] Sidewalks in Australia

Thanks for the feedback. Just to summarise my reading of the replies, it sounds like there is: 1. a preference for separately mapped sidewalks (highway=footway + footway=sidewalk) 2. no harm in also adding tags to the road (sidewalk:both=separate, or sidewalk:left=separate / sidewalk:right=sepa

[talk-au] Sidewalks in Australia

I've been using the current lockdown to walk and cycle all of the streets of my LGA (Willoughby), and I've been checking back to OSM to see if there's anything needing updating. For the most part it's just minor edits here and there. I had a couple of questions, one of which I'll address in th

Re: [talk-au] Local bicycle routes in NSW

On 25/04/2020 11:46 am, Andrew Harvey wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 08:57, Tom Brennan wrote: 1. Infrastructure: Painted road markings (but no cycle lane) and/or street signs indicating cycle route: cycleway=shared_lane eg https://ozultimate.com/temp/2020-04-24%2022_01_11-NSW%20Bushwalking

[talk-au] Local bicycle routes in NSW

Willoughby Council (Sydney, NSW) has recently been refreshing its cycle route signage, so I've been riding the routes and reviewing tagging in OSM. Before I go and make a whole lot of changes, I just wanted to confirm best practice. 1. Infrastructure: Painted road markings (but no cycle lane)

Re: [talk-au] What's going on here? (mysterious street)

In NSW you can often check up unformed roads on council web sites. There are oodles of them shown in Google that don't currently exist in reality. Compare http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&ll=-33.777168,150.627912&spn=0.006269,0.009645&z=17 with http://www.bmcc.nsw.gov.au/bmccmap/maps.cfm?r

Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas

Makes sense. The IUCN Protected Areas Categories are an international standard, and there shouldn't really be any shoehorning to get Aussie protected areas to fit. To use a couple of examples (from NSW! :) ) Blue Mountains National Park boundary=protected_area protect_id=2 protection_title=Nati

Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs

On 28/06/2010 10:00 AM, John Smith wrote: As David wrote, you need to view the individual tiles and add dirty to the end: eg if the image is http://c.tile.cloudmade.com/fd093e52f0965d46bb1c6c6281022199/3/256/15/30078/19646.png You do this: http://c.tile.cloudmade.com/fd093e52f0965d46bb1c6c62810

Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs

On 27/06/2010 8:38 PM, John Smith wrote: It's the Cloudmade layer. Even with a cache refresh it's still months out of You have to force the tiles to be redrawn by viewing the tile and putting /dirty on the end, otherwise you see the cached tiles. Like this ? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=

Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs

On 27/06/2010 2:10 AM, John Smith wrote: Since I'm not in Sydney I was hessitent to make changes, at least without announcing ahead of time. Fair enough. However, I think it's out of date enough that you could just make the changes anyway. It will probably spur some Sydneysiders to then tidy

Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs

On 26/06/2010 1:12 PM, John Smith wrote: I think points of interest are one of the best aspects to OSM data and I don't think we should be telling people not to map specific types of POIs just because it might clutter up a rendering of a map, if anything we should use this as an example of where

Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?

On 19/06/2010 10:20 PM, John Smith wrote: > A little birdy tells me that they think the GA data may suffer similar > problems to the SRTM data, in any case will have to look into the > licensing, it may not be favourable even if the data isn't being > uploaded to OSM. Basically the only options fo

Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?

On 17/06/2010 11:25 PM, John Smith wrote: navigation are: - tracks - render as dashed black line >>> >>> Can you put this in OSM terms? >> >> What do you mean by OSM terms (I'm a bit of a newbie) > > something like highway=track, grade=3 ? OK - highway=path - dashed black line - highway=track

Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?

On 17/06/2010 3:46 PM, John Henderson wrote: > I may have raised this issue in the past. Walking tracks are never > signposted or otherwise marked through declared wilderness areas. This > includes some sections of the Australian Alps Walking Track. Maps > should not show tracks in those specifi

Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?

ures, many of which can't easily be represented in OSM at the moment (Gangerang Range, Kilpatrick Causeway, Crafts Wall, Brennan Top, Seriphos Pit, Seriphos Cliffs, Gabes Gap) cheers Tom Brennan Bushwalking? http://ozultimate.com/bushwalking Canyoning? http://ozultimate.com/canyoning ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?

I'm a bushwalker and I'm attempting to map the Blue Mountains, including roads, tracks, cliffs and watercourses. A key reason is that I'd like to be able to use OSM to auto-generate maps for my website, which I currently have to create by hand eg http://ozultimate.com/bushwalking/walk/239/bob_tu