Re: [talk-ph] Caviteño: Is Antero Soriano Highway a really major highway?
Any other opinions from other people in Cavite? Ian H., Rem? :-) On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Sorbi Ildefonso sorbi.ildefo...@gmail.comwrote: I believe it is a major highway. Volume-wise, a lot of vehicles including three bus lines (Lawton-Naic, Lawton-Ternate, Lawton-Maragondon) use A. Soriano. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: A user wants to upgrade Antero Soriano Highway which connects Bacoor to Naic from a primary road to a trunk road. I'd like to get the opinion if this is a good move. For reference, Governor's Drive, which connects Naic to Carmona, and Aguinaldo Highway, which connects Bacoor to Tagaytay, are both marked as trunk roads already. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Caviteño: Is Antero Soriano Highway a really major highway?
the high volume of traffic on Soriano says it's a trunk, but is it true that the traffic there is also very slow? If you can rarely reach an the average speed 40kmh, then maybe just another busy 'primary city road' that connects a few towns cities. (we can't say the same for Metro Manila to qualify for trunk road). If you look at it in isolation, Soriano highway is not long enough to connect the province from end-to-end or doesn't function like bringing traffic from one region/province to another. (unlike Aguinaldo Hway Governor's Drive, which terminate either to another province or to the coastline, or crosses provincial boundaries). Unless we interpret Soriano Hway as part of series of connected system of roads, eg. a continuation of CAVITEX which connects to NCR, or sort of a loop that connects back to Governor's Drive. Try zooming out (when all primary roads start to disappear, as I see it in a garmin map); it will show that Cavitex logically needs a 'provincial road' to terminate to (or to connect to...) Then it can be a trunk my opinion is 50:50, we go either way (trunk or primary). Now consider a tree. If you cut its trunk, everything on top of it will die.The trunk serves as the main conduit of water nutrients from roots to all the branches and all the way to the topmost leaves twigs. What will happen to Metro Manila if Guadalupe Bridge (part of EDSA), or that bridge in C-5 connecting Pasig to Makati collapse? chaos! goods coming from the NLEX or SLEX can't get through. Metro Manila will virtually be divided. Or imagine cutting Manila East Road or Ortigas Ave Ext in Rizal, or Halsema Highway in the Cordillera? you kill the provincial industries. The Caviteno's can answer the same question: if we cut Soriano Hiway, what happens to the Cavite province? If Cavite can survive without it (even with minor or major inconveniences of going around a similar alternate road), then it's not a trunk road. Or what will happen to the future volume traffic of CAVITEX if we close Soriano Hway? On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: Any other opinions from other people in Cavite? Ian H., Rem? :-) On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Sorbi Ildefonso sorbi.ildefo...@gmail.com wrote: I believe it is a major highway. Volume-wise, a lot of vehicles including three bus lines (Lawton-Naic, Lawton-Ternate, Lawton-Maragondon) use A. Soriano. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: A user wants to upgrade Antero Soriano Highway which connects Bacoor to Naic from a primary road to a trunk road. I'd like to get the opinion if this is a good move. For reference, Governor's Drive, which connects Naic to Carmona, and Aguinaldo Highway, which connects Bacoor to Tagaytay, are both marked as trunk roads already. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Caviteño: Is Antero Soriano Highway a really major highway?
my 2 cents. me and my friends (from cavite) usually divide the province into two parts, upland and lowland. upland comprises of imus-dasma-silang-tagaytay-et.al. and lowland usually are those towns near the manila bay which includes bacoor-kawit-noveleta-rosario-cavite city-naic-tanza. back in the days in college, we have a provincial organization and every weekend sabay sabay kame umuwi via public transpo. dalawang grupo pa rin yan mainly again, those from uplands and lowlands. kasi the two major roads (cavite-wise) in the province are aguinaldo hiway and that main road from bacoor-naic (which is Soriano pala) following rally's analogy, i'd say that hiway is a trunk. * * *The Caviteno's can answer the same question: if we cut Soriano Hiway, what happens to the Cavite province? If Cavite can survive without it (even with minor or major inconveniences of going around a similar alternate road), then it's not a trunk road. Or what will happen to the future volume traffic of CAVITEX if we close Soriano Hway?* yes cavite and it's people will survive because people from naic and tanza can simply go around the whole province and use governor's drive then aguinaldo hiway. but is it practical? before CAVITEX, the only practical way to go, let say to cavite city, is this hiway. and imagine for practical uses of gps units. let say im from manila and have no idea how to go to naic. i want to plan and see the main roads in cavite. if i zoom out just to see these roads, all i can see are aguinaldo hiway and governor's drive (which is what we have right now). it wont' be wise for me to think that to go to naic i should use this trunk roads. one more thing, if we have a set speed limit for trunk roads, then i say aguinaldo hiway (from bacoor to imus area) should not be considered trunk. for months now, maynilad has been digging the main road of cavite allowing only one lane each direction. imagine the traffic here during rush hour. one time i went home from manila at 5am and it was traffic the whole stretch from bacoor to imus with speeds of 10kph or less. swerte ka na kung maka-20 ka :) again just my 2 cents rem On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: the high volume of traffic on Soriano says it's a trunk, but is it true that the traffic there is also very slow? If you can rarely reach an the average speed 40kmh, then maybe just another busy 'primary city road' that connects a few towns cities. (we can't say the same for Metro Manila to qualify for trunk road). If you look at it in isolation, Soriano highway is not long enough to connect the province from end-to-end or doesn't function like bringing traffic from one region/province to another. (unlike Aguinaldo Hway Governor's Drive, which terminate either to another province or to the coastline, or crosses provincial boundaries). Unless we interpret Soriano Hway as part of series of connected system of roads, eg. a continuation of CAVITEX which connects to NCR, or sort of a loop that connects back to Governor's Drive. Try zooming out (when all primary roads start to disappear, as I see it in a garmin map); it will show that Cavitex logically needs a 'provincial road' to terminate to (or to connect to...) Then it can be a trunk my opinion is 50:50, we go either way (trunk or primary). Now consider a tree. If you cut its trunk, everything on top of it will die.The trunk serves as the main conduit of water nutrients from roots to all the branches and all the way to the topmost leaves twigs. What will happen to Metro Manila if Guadalupe Bridge (part of EDSA), or that bridge in C-5 connecting Pasig to Makati collapse? chaos! goods coming from the NLEX or SLEX can't get through. Metro Manila will virtually be divided. Or imagine cutting Manila East Road or Ortigas Ave Ext in Rizal, or Halsema Highway in the Cordillera? you kill the provincial industries. The Caviteno's can answer the same question: if we cut Soriano Hiway, what happens to the Cavite province? If Cavite can survive without it (even with minor or major inconveniences of going around a similar alternate road), then it's not a trunk road. Or what will happen to the future volume traffic of CAVITEX if we close Soriano Hway? On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: Any other opinions from other people in Cavite? Ian H., Rem? :-) On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Sorbi Ildefonso sorbi.ildefo...@gmail.com wrote: I believe it is a major highway. Volume-wise, a lot of vehicles including three bus lines (Lawton-Naic, Lawton-Ternate, Lawton-Maragondon) use A. Soriano. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: A user wants to upgrade Antero Soriano Highway which connects Bacoor to Naic from a primary road to a trunk road. I'd like to get the opinion if this is a good move. For reference, Governor's Drive, which connects Naic to Carmona, and
Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM stats
Thanks Linusable ;) Folks, There is (as every month or so) an update of the unmapped place . available as usual at : http://bmaron.net/osm_stats/unmapped/index.html for the map and http://bmaron.net/osm_stats/unmapped/result.html for the details in a html way Stats are in 1 month : From 117 to 61 unmapped places ( No more for the next update???) From 390 to 291 sparsely mapped places As last time, this only count the number of nodes in a certain radius of the place...not the POIs or streetname or analyses of the bing imagery :p Have fun ;-) On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 13:10, Linusable linusableli...@yahoo.fr wrote: Congratulations for the job. A small article is posted about OSM covering on the wordpress of LoLiGrUB (http://www.loligrub.be), a LUG near Mons. The news is re-used by http://www.interlug.be Hope this will incite new contributors ! linusable Le 01/06/11 09:22, eMerzh a écrit : Hi everybody, here is an update about unmapped places http://bmaron.net/osm_stats/unmapped/ (it's now splitted in 2 layers :unmapped ans sparsely mapped) as usual the textual report is here http://bmaron.net/osm_stats/unmapped/result.html btw, in the last 18 days we have mapped 33 unmapped place and 67 sparsely mapped place :) On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 14:12, Lennardl...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 14-5-2011 10:20, eMerzh wrote: Hi, the lenght of osm highway are directly calculated from an osm2pgsql with data from the 12th april. I assume you took the projection into account? Plainly doing ST_Length will sum the projected length of the roads. The real length will be much lower. -- Lennard ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: As per the implementation plan [1], we intend to move to phase 4 this Sunday 19th June or as soon after as is technically practical. This will mean that anyone who has explictly declined the new contributor terms will no longer be able to edit, (unless they decide to accept). This currently numbers 406 in total compared to over 191,000 who now contribute under the new terms. They or our forking folks may wish to grab a planet dump now and another one just before the phase 5 cut-over to ODbL. Planet dumps are generally made every Wednesday as of 11:01 UK time and become available 3 days later. Next week's version will probably be made on Tuesday due to the coming UCL shutdown. I would emphasise there is currently no need to remove data from the live database since the license is still CC-BY-SA. I believe there is no urgency to do so until acceptances have been maximised, local issues that have a near term solution have been addressed and there is a sense of community consensus that it is time. The License Working Group will continue listening to all feedback. Re: planet files. It is my understanding that the planet file generation job _starts_ at about 1:11 on each Wednesday morning, London time. The planet job generally completes about a day and a half later. The Full history planet jobs are generated less often and generally take about three days to complete. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process
Also the current acceptance numbers are ~166,000 accepting, vs. 406 declined. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process
On 6/14/2011 5:10 PM, Richard Weait wrote: Also the current acceptance numbers are ~166,000 accepting, vs. 406 declined. What is the no response count to the emails so far? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. Dear Ben, Thank you for providing this clear statement, for NearMap's contributions to the OpenStreetMap community, and for the generous decision to allow current NearMap-referenced data to remain in OSM. Best regards, Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
In general i know Henk as a reasonable man, and I know he is in politics in the Netherlands so she should knew better then referencing to this would-be-dictator Pierens Doodle Poll. Read it and you will understand why is some democratic countries revolutions started. This Is what I call blackmail democracy. (the Poll does not even mention the CT) The Poll starts as follows: You are not a member of the OSMF but in February 2010, you will be asked to accept the new Odbl or your account will be closed and all you contributions deleted from the database (or hidden which is the same). If one does not read carefully, one might even conclude that as a result of this poll your account may be closed. Serge Wroclawski wrote about this poll: ...separately by the community by a different community member who had concerned over the first poll. I wonder what the concerns might have been This is a very good example of how democracy should not work. Kadhaffi would do no better. And it makes me fully understand why TimC writes: The community polls were post-hoc rationalizing, window dressing, unofficial and poorly worded. In legitimate democratic votes, the vote occurs BEFORE the decision to implement a plan takes place. It is tacitly acknowledged in that the mechanism in the CTs is different from what previously had happened. But really the past doesn't matter as much as what we do next Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) P Before printing, think about the environment. Van: Henk Hoff [mailto:toffeh...@gmail.com] Verzonden: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:55 PM Aan: Nathan Edgars II CC: talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF ! On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Serge Wroclawski-2 wrote: Next, about a year later, a vote amongst OSMF membership was taken.This isn't the board, but the entire membership. Since it was a decision that was to effect the direction of the OSMF, this makes sense to me.. This was before my time, but from what I understand it was not a vote on whether to switch to ODbL, but whether to start the process of creating a license and deciding whether we should switch. Before everybody understands things differently. The OSMF-membership vote *was* about moving to the ODbL and the (older version of) CT. Outcome: 98% of voters in favor of the proposed change, 2% against. During the time of the OSMF-membership vote, there was also a vote initiated by the community, which can be seen here: http://doodle.com/feqszqirqqxi4r7w Outcome: 75% would accept the new license, 11% undecided, 14% not (at that time) There has been similar polls by the community during that time with similar results. Both (the vote and the poll) show a large majority in favor of the proposed change. Again: ODbL combined with CT. This was done *before* all the new sign-ups were asked to sign the CT. Based on this outcome of the membership-vote the process to change the license was continued. The polls in the community were no reason to change this decision. Cheers, Henk image001.gif___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 23:54 +0200, Henk Hoff wrote: During the time of the OSMF-membership vote, there was also a vote initiated by the community, which can be seen here: http://doodle.com/feqszqirqqxi4r7w Outcome: 75% would accept the new license, 11% undecided, 14% not (at that time) You say '75% would'. How many of those 75% have made edits using a source that is CC-BY-SA? I think in principle nearly 100% of OSM users support the continuation of OSM as its own entity, but only 2% acknowledge that they cant relicence that which they do not own in the first place. I suspect the numbers are significantly higher. One sample I derived from a small criteria in Australia, showed that nearly 25% of users who agreed to the ODbL and CT have used CC-BY-SA sources (based on their use of the source= tag). I can only imagine this number would increase if I extended this search to look for more than 2 source tags, or looked for other derived data (for example, CC-BY-SA tagged data that is split or joined). This means that even though 99% of people clicked 'accept' (a check in Australia actually shows the figure at closer to 15%), a large portion of that data is dirty and cannot be used in OSM under the new licence, even though the users who contributed it have decided to relicence it. If this situation was reversed and a major project derived data from OSM, and then in the future asked users to accept a new licence, would OSM have a problem with that? If not, why not.. If so, why is there a double standard? David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] server configuration
Hello A quick question I have the following HW configuration RAM: 3GB HDD: 2TB CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz If I succeed to import the planet file to the posgGIS database I have on the mentioned machine, will it be sufficient for map rendering using GeoServer (I only need the WMS to server the base layer -- the planet), or will I need a better HW configuration for that ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] coastline broken ?
Pierre asked: Can someone help me to fix this. Yes. Just wait. Mapnik coastlines are updated at long intervals (wiki says every few weeks). Looks OK to me on the Osmarender layer. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:37 AM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: In general i know Henk as a reasonable man, Thank you and I know he is in politics in the Netherlands Not anymore so she should knew better then referencing to this would-be-dictator Pierens Doodle Poll. Huh? There has been a loud outcry that they haven't been asked. I reference to one of the polls put out by the community (not the Foundation) and I get blamed by naming it? Although I was not responsible for that poll, does not mean it has not happened Read it and you will understand why is some “democratic” countries revolutions started. This Is what I call blackmail democracy. (the Poll does not even mention the CT) The Poll starts as follows: ** ** ** ** *You are not a member of the OSMF but in February 2010, you will be asked to accept the new Odbl or your account will be closed and all you contributions deleted from the database (or hidden which is the same).* * * If one does not read carefully, one might even conclude that as a result of this poll your account may be closed. ** Again, this poll was not put by the Foundation. There was a vote amongst the OSMF membership. That was leading for further steps. The outcome of other polls we were aware of, did not give us a reason to decide different. ** And it makes me fully understand why TimC writes: ** ** The community polls were post-hoc rationalizing, window dressing, unofficial and poorly worded. In legitimate democratic votes, the vote occurs BEFORE the decision to implement a plan takes place. It is tacitly acknowledged in that the mechanism in the CTs is different from what previously had happened. But really the past doesn't matter as much as what we do next I'm not responsible for a poll put out by a community member. So if TimSC qualifies these as post-hoc rationalizing, window dressing, unofficial and poorly worded is more an indication to me that TimSC opposes polls put out by community members. The vote amongst the Foundation members (not being the poll) had also a questionnaire asking about the preference of Foundation members to which elements a future license should comply. Both gave a clear outcome. Cheers, Henk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] coastline broken ?
Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: Can someone help me to fix this. Yes. Just wait. Mapnik coastlines are updated at long intervals (wiki says every few weeks). Looks OK to me on the Osmarender layer. OK i just say this, thanks. I seems that the river bank removal has been updated (in mapnik render) but not the new coastline... Just wait ;-) -- Pierre-Alain Dorange OSM experiences : http://www.leretourdelautruche.com/map/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On 14 June 2011 05:18, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Nathan was being gracious. You ARE trolling. Stop it. I like to assume good faith on the lists. I have never for a moment doubted the sincerity of your position on the licence change, and I demand the same courtesy from you. It's acceptable for people to draw different conclusions from the same data. In a democracy, a majority decides which way a decision should fall. Very likely many non-Muslims voted against the ban. They were NOT treated differently after the vote. Stop arguing that accepting the license means anything more than accepting the license, Dermot. It doesn't. In particular, I accepted the license because I know that if I do not, then my (rather significant) contributions would be deleted, and I would be banned from further contributions. I can and have accepted the license without approving of it. That too is a reason to accept. Most countries and organisations avoid the kind of micro-democracy that would have avoided the situation we have today in OSM where some people (a minority) complain that they are being asked to vote (or pronounce, decide, choose if you don't want to call it a vote) on the wrong question and that they would prefer to have been asked a different question. Such a micro-democracy would never have managed to agree on a question to ask, and while this might be a useful outcome for those who favour the status quo, that seems to me a lot like one group asserting its will over another not by constituting a majority, but by constituting a loud enough minority (UN Security Council springs to mind here). So instead of a micro-democracy, we have ended up with a central group of people producing the proposal on which ultimately all mappers needed to take a decision. As will be clear, I tend to agree with the thrust of their reasoning and I find that the people involved are honest and have the good of the project at heart. But is it not still unfair that specifically that group got to come up with the proposal? Not at all. And again, I'd like to come back to how democratic governments tend to work. If you look at the role of the OSMF in advancing the licence change initiative, one option is to consider that they were acting in the manner of a government. This might grate if you take the view that you never voted for them. But ultimately, it isn't just governments that get to propose laws. Minority groups in parliaments, right down to single independent members, also get to do so. And in the case of the Bavarian smoking ban, a law change even came from an ad-hoc group of citizens. So the right to propose legislation (or, in this case, a licence change) is not some mysterious one. There is no reason any grouping within the project cannot form to promote a different change - in fact, any group that wishes to do so will find it much easier to do so once the initial change to CT is made because of the 66% majority. But, I (continuously) hear you point out, the OSMF is uniquely well-placed to force through its will because it controls the servers.. This is, of course, true. I can counter with the usual retort that it is everyone's option to fork and that this is the defense against an evil Foundation. You can counter that OSMF will still prevail as it enjoys recognition as the one true fork. And we all go away frowning. Thing is, even an evil foundation would have to consider the sustainability of a post-CT data set. On the one hand, OSMF has the advantage that it could, using the servers and domains it controls, move to ODbL under CT with, say 20% of today's data - technically they are not even subject to any democratic decision of mappers. To return briefly to the issue of legislation sponsored by a government, the cabinet in planning the legislation needs to keep it sufficiently reasonable that it will pass a vote by a majority of the house. Opposition-sponsored bills are harder. They require the same majority and you know that government party can defeat it on a whim. Such a bill needs to be so strong it its merit that even your political rivals will go for it. The Bavarian referendum on the smoking ban is probably closest to our licence change, and even here, a defined majority of the turnout is sufficient to carry the law. In our vote the OSMF had both the theoretical latitude to ignore democracy and operate without a majority, but also the practical constraint that anything less than an overwhelming mandate would screw up the map beyond redemption. This much stronger imperative informed the entire process of licence selection. The process was not a secret and nobody's consent was taken for granted. The eventual proposal is one that failed to please many, for all kinds of reasons. Russ, I've already publicly stated that you did the decent thing by agreeing to the change despite your many difficulties with the process. As far as I'm concerned, barring those mappers who have contributed data incompatible
[OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Navigon-Add-22-Million-POIs-To-SatNav-Devices--1060.php An interesting development. If I understand things correctly (and assuming CC-by-SA holds water for data), they can charge for these derived data sets, but they would still have to be CC-by-SA, and so anyone who bought one could then redistribute without charge. Does that sound right? David P.S. If they have de-duplicated these, as they claim, perhaps it is worth getting our hands on as a resource for cleaning up the database... -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Navigon-to-Sell-OpenStreetMap-POIs-Packages-for-PNDs-tp6473813p6473813.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
Good arguments and reasoning Dermot, (no irony) Now see how these match with the history of the CT approval process, and you might even change opinion! And to Russ, calling others a troll will transform you into one once! This discussion is of high quality, high level argument based and both sides are to be respected from their perspective. There is no consensus to be expected, but if OSM will not prevail the end you all will (maybe) understand why ! After all, the overwhelming majority that clicked without even reading or considering reading the CT will abandon OSM as quick as a click, for another toy of preference. And those who actually read and object against the CT (besides a possible majority that is in favor for equally qualified reasons) should be considered with more respect, as both groups form the core of this project. To get back to the start of this thread, becoming a member of the OSMF will reinforce the basis of this project. Regardless of the fact that our legal basis will result in CT/ODBL or PD. So again, I want to call everyone reading this to spent a few beers in our favorite hobby (if so!) and assure the future of OSM. Regards, Gert Gremmen -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Dermot McNally [mailto:derm...@gmail.com] Verzonden: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:13 PM Aan: Russ Nelson CC: Nathan Edgars II; talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF ! On 14 June 2011 05:18, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Nathan was being gracious. You ARE trolling. Stop it. I like to assume good faith on the lists. I have never for a moment doubted the sincerity of your position on the licence change, and I demand the same courtesy from you. It's acceptable for people to draw different conclusions from the same data. In a democracy, a majority decides which way a decision should fall. Very likely many non-Muslims voted against the ban. They were NOT treated differently after the vote. Stop arguing that accepting the license means anything more than accepting the license, Dermot. It doesn't. In particular, I accepted the license because I know that if I do not, then my (rather significant) contributions would be deleted, and I would be banned from further contributions. I can and have accepted the license without approving of it. That too is a reason to accept. Most countries and organisations avoid the kind of micro-democracy that would have avoided the situation we have today in OSM where some people (a minority) complain that they are being asked to vote (or pronounce, decide, choose if you don't want to call it a vote) on the wrong question and that they would prefer to have been asked a different question. Such a micro-democracy would never have managed to agree on a question to ask, and while this might be a useful outcome for those who favour the status quo, that seems to me a lot like one group asserting its will over another not by constituting a majority, but by constituting a loud enough minority (UN Security Council springs to mind here). So instead of a micro-democracy, we have ended up with a central group of people producing the proposal on which ultimately all mappers needed to take a decision. As will be clear, I tend to agree with the thrust of their reasoning and I find that the people involved are honest and have the good of the project at heart. But is it not still unfair that specifically that group got to come up with the proposal? Not at all. And again, I'd like to come back to how democratic governments tend to work. If you look at the role of the OSMF in advancing the licence change initiative, one option is to consider that they were acting in the manner of a government. This might grate if you take the view that you never voted for them. But ultimately, it isn't just governments that get to propose laws. Minority groups in parliaments, right down to single independent members, also get to do so. And in the case of the Bavarian smoking ban, a law change even came from an ad-hoc group of citizens. So the right to propose legislation (or, in this case, a licence change) is not some mysterious one. There is no reason any grouping within the project cannot form to promote a different change - in fact, any group that wishes to do so will find it much easier to do so once the initial change to CT is made because of the 66% majority. But, I (continuously) hear you point out, the OSMF is uniquely well-placed to force through its will because it controls the servers.. This is, of course, true. I can counter with the usual retort that it is everyone's option to fork and that this is the defense against an evil Foundation. You can counter that OSMF will still prevail as it enjoys recognition as the one true fork. And we all go away frowning. Thing is, even an evil foundation would have to consider the sustainability of a post-CT data set. On the one hand, OSMF has the advantage that it could, using the servers and domains it
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
On 14/06/11 13:29, davespod wrote: If I understand things correctly (and assuming CC-by-SA holds water for data), they can charge for these derived data sets, but they would still have to be CC-by-SA, and so anyone who bought one could then redistribute without charge. Does that sound right? Yeah, that sounds right. P.S. If they have de-duplicated these, as they claim, perhaps it is worth getting our hands on as a resource for cleaning up the database... Anyone who pays to get the set off them receives it under CC-by-SA (or similar) and therefore the data can be contributed back to OSM, attributed to them of course. -- Borbus. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] coastline broken ?
On 14/06/11 12:07, Pierre-Alain Dorange wrote: OK i just say this, thanks. I seems that the river bank removal has been updated (in mapnik render) but not the new coastline... Just wait ;-) The coastline data will be updated in a few weeks, but the mapnik layer won't notice this. It will only get re-rendered if some other change forces it to notice, or the tiles are manually /dirty'd. -- Borbus. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
That's correct. You can sell a product based on a CC-BY-SA work, but the terms of distribution must remain the same. So as in your example, they could sell the product, but then you can turn around and give it away. There's also protection in the CC-BY-SA against DRM: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_happens_if_someone_tries_to_restrict_a_CC-licensed_work_with_digital_rights_management_.28DRM.29_tools.3F In this case, I have a few thoughts, and I'm sure the people on legal@ have some more complete views than I do off the cuff... 1. Where is the line for derived work. If I'm a customer of this product, am I seeing aggregate work of OSM and non-OSM POIs? If that's the case, I'd think that'd be explicitly not allowed. 2. The OSM license only dictates the data not the software. So in this case, while we can accept the data and re-distribute it, we cannot effect the service itself. In other words, we can't decide that we want Navigon to work differently than it does, and accept any data file we want. This is where the issues get a bit gray. The license can't dictate the use of the software or the service, except in the case of the DRM, where DRM violates the license. Now for my own opinion This is where the community has an understandable split. Some in the community want the OSM data to be as unrestricted in use as possible. They'd like it to be under Public Domain (even though that's impossible), or the closest that they can manage. Others, like myself, don't, and see this as an interesting test case. How will Navigon work with OSM to distribute OSM data in such a way that does not violate either the letter or the spirit of the license? The ODbL would make some of this much easier. If the work were ODbL now, any DRMed distribution of the work would require the company to distribute a non-DRM version. In my view, the correct logcial step is, as done in the GPLv3, require that if they're DRMing the work, that they are required to distribute the keys to the DRM to allow the product owner to be able to insert their own data instead. That's my .02. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Wrong Background in Germany MAP
Dears, i rendered a tile from Gemany using mapnik from a small area as BBX= 7.8828125, 48.6909603909254, 8.1375, 48.8823727870095 But the result is blue as you see in attachment. What is the reason of that, and what should we do? regards, Saphyattachment: Meta_10_534_352.png___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Kothic JS - a full-featured JavaScript map rendering engine using HTML5 Canvas
Actually all browsers work like this - they have UI and JS running in the same thread, so you can't do anything while a tile is rendered. I've split the process to 3 chunks (styling, map rendering and text rendering) to make the UI a little more responsive, but generally this can't be addressed well at the moment. I'm hoping that browsers will implement the ability to manipulate Canvas in a Web Worker sometime so rendering is in a separate thread. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: And it's gorgeous, just gorgeous. The only thing wrong with it is that the whole user interface of Firefox is written in JS. So when Kothic is rendering a complex map, be prepared to wait for your browser to pay attention to your clicks. -- Vladimir Agafonkin Front-End Architect, CloudMade +380 93 745 44 61 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
Am 14.06.2011 um 14:29 schrieb davespod: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Navigon-Add-22-Million-POIs-To-SatNav-Devices--1060.php An interesting development. If I understand things correctly (and assuming CC-by-SA holds water for data), they can charge for these derived data sets, but they would still have to be CC-by-SA, and so anyone who bought one could then redistribute without charge. Does that sound right? A note on this one for everyone not reading talk-de [1]: Ulf Möller, who has been a member of the OSMF Board and is part of the LWG, had been given a test device by Navigon in order to check for correct attribution. He was also asked by Navigon to distribute a text file [2] to the community which contains some basic information about how Navigon processes the data, links to download the packages for free (CC-BY-SA compliance AFAIK) and also instructions on how to install these files on a device. P.S. If they have de-duplicated these, as they claim, perhaps it is worth getting our hands on as a resource for cleaning up the database... Well, it would be nice and we could certainly ask for it, but with CC-BY-SA only the end product falls under the license and not the processed data in between. Once we move on to ODbL however, this will change and we will get the much more interesting 'raw' data. -- Jonas [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2011-June/086724.html [2] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/attachments/20110612/4c4e868d/attachment.txt___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
Hi, On 14 June 2011 15:29, Jonas Krückel jona...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 14.06.2011 um 14:29 schrieb davespod: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Navigon-Add-22-Million-POIs-To-SatNav-Devices--1060.php An interesting development. If I understand things correctly (and assuming CC-by-SA holds water for data), they can charge for these derived data sets, but they would still have to be CC-by-SA, and so anyone who bought one could then redistribute without charge. Does that sound right? A note on this one for everyone not reading talk-de [1]: Ulf Möller, who has been a member of the OSMF Board and is part of the LWG, had been given a test device by Navigon in order to check for correct attribution. He was also asked by Navigon to distribute a text file [2] to the community which contains some basic information about how Navigon processes the data, links to download the packages for free (CC-BY-SA compliance AFAIK) and also instructions on how to install these files on a device. P.S. If they have de-duplicated these, as they claim, perhaps it is worth getting our hands on as a resource for cleaning up the database... Well, it would be nice and we could certainly ask for it, but with CC-BY-SA only the end product falls under the license and not the processed data in between. Are you sure? If we manage to extract the processed data, it'll be derived from either the end product or OSM or both, so it needs to be CC-By-SA too and there's no way around it. Once we move on to ODbL however, this will change and we will get the much more interesting 'raw' data. Which we can't re-use in OSM however. Someone on IRC mentioned that the situation would be clearer under ODbL, too, but I think this is a false positive. Additionally with ODbL Navigon may take the position that they made a produced work. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
Am 14.06.2011 um 15:43 schrieb andrzej zaborowski: Hi, On 14 June 2011 15:29, Jonas Krückel jona...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 14.06.2011 um 14:29 schrieb davespod: Well, it would be nice and we could certainly ask for it, but with CC-BY-SA only the end product falls under the license and not the processed data in between. Are you sure? If we manage to extract the processed data, it'll be derived from either the end product or OSM or both, so it needs to be CC-By-SA too and there's no way around it. Yes, that's right. What I was trying to say is, that they only need to release the end product under CC-BY-SA and don't have to _provide_ any data sets from in between. Once we move on to ODbL however, this will change and we will get the much more interesting 'raw' data. Which we can't re-use in OSM however. Maybe you should explain why not, because from my understanding this data would be in an OSM compatible license because of the share-a-like aspect of ODbL [1]. Someone on IRC mentioned that the situation would be clearer under ODbL, too, but I think this is a false positive. Additionally with ODbL Navigon may take the position that they made a produced work. Yes, their POI packages maybe produced work and could be proprietary, but they would still have to release the processed OSM data from in between, which as I stated above might be more interesting to us. All that is only on how I understand the license and I'm not an expert on this. Also, I think it would be appropriate to continue this discussion on legal-talk. -- Jonas [1] http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
On 14 June 2011 15:51, Jonas Krückel jona...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 14.06.2011 um 15:43 schrieb andrzej zaborowski: On 14 June 2011 15:29, Jonas Krückel jona...@googlemail.com wrote: Once we move on to ODbL however, this will change and we will get the much more interesting 'raw' data. Which we can't re-use in OSM however. Maybe you should explain why not, because from my understanding this data would be in an OSM compatible license because of the share-a-like aspect of ODbL [1]. That means we can mix it with OSM, but not contribute it back to OSM because the new contributor terms don't allow using ODbL licensed data. Someone on IRC mentioned that the situation would be clearer under ODbL, too, but I think this is a false positive. Additionally with ODbL Navigon may take the position that they made a produced work. Yes, their POI packages maybe produced work and could be proprietary, but they would still have to release the processed OSM data from in between, which as I stated above might be more interesting to us. All that is only on how I understand the license and I'm not an expert on this. I'm not an expert either, perhaps you're right they'd have to release the processed data. Also, I think it would be appropriate to continue this discussion on legal-talk. Ok. Cheers ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
andrzej zaborowski wrote: That means we can mix it with OSM, but not contribute it back to OSM because the new contributor terms don't allow using ODbL licensed data. The standard Contributor Terms don't have to be the only Contributor Terms. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-OSM-legal-talk-OSM-talk-Navigon-to-Sell-OpenStreetMap-POIs-Packages-for-PNDs-tp6474142p6474153.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Navigon to Sell OpenStreetMap POIs Packages for PNDs
On 14/06/11 15:03, Richard Fairhurst wrote: andrzej zaborowski wrote: That means we can mix it with OSM, but not contribute it back to OSM because the new contributor terms don't allow using ODbL licensed data. The standard Contributor Terms don't have to be the only Contributor Terms. But it helps. ;-) - Rob. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:37 AM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Read it and you will understand why is some “democratic” countries revolutions started. This Is what I call blackmail democracy. (the Poll does not even mention the CT) FYI, the poll was opened the Dec 6, 2009 : in reaction to the license change proposal: http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/3/3c/License_Proposal.pdf published on this announcement: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/announce/2009-December/07.html immediately forwarded on the talk list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-December/045105.html and the long following thread... Indeed, on the first message sent by Ian Dees, we already see the question: Is this email implying that contributers to OSM who are not members o the OSMF can not vote on the license decision? For your information, Gert Gremmen, at that time, the CT - and even the concept of a CT - did not exist (or at least not publicly). I will not comment the license itself or the results (I never did) but I always said that my preference would have been that the foundation conducted such poll itself. Because the gem of OSM is not the foundation or its members but the contributors and nobody asked their opinion. Because only the admins had the means to make it more seriously - as I stated in my messages - but this poll was better than nothing and showed my frustration about the process. Anyway, once the fraction of the foundation members voted for the change and put the new license obligatory for new contributors, the game was over. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Henk Hoff toffeh...@gmail.com wrote: Outcome: 75% would accept the new license, 11% undecided, 14% not (at that time) There has been similar polls by the community during that time with similar results. Both (the vote and the poll) show a large majority in favor of the proposed change. Again: ODbL combined with CT. Hello Henk, The process has always been described as consisting of at least 2 phases: 1. Asking contributors to relicense and 2. Using the new license, which entails deleting stuff. The vote by OSMF members was to allow the directors to use their discretion in these two phases. The poll only concerned the first phase. It does not tell us if a large majority (was) in favor of the proposed change. To do that you need another poll: Will the benefits of the ODbL license outweigh the deletion of the data ?. Regards, Nic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wrong Background in Germany MAP
Hi, Saphy Mo wrote: i rendered a tile from Gemany using mapnik from a small area as BBX= 7.8828125, 48.6909603909254, 8.1375, 48.8823727870095 But the result is blue as you see in attachment. That's because you tell Mapnik to render it blue in your style sheet (look for Map background...). What is the reason of that, and what should we do? If you render land area only, simply change the map background to whatever you wnat your land to be coloured. If you render sea also, you need to load the world boundary shapefiles (see Mapnik article on the wiki). Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: ... Both on the confidential legal-talk list ... This is a perfect example of a process that never involved the average contributors. Nonsense. The separate list for legal discussions was created because legal discussions were drowning general mapping discussions and the community asked that legal discussions be moved to another list. legal-talk is not confidential it is a public list. It is open to join, and is archived. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
Hi, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net mailto:rich...@systemed.net wrote: The Contributor Terms were posted to the mailing lists in September 2009 as far as I can see: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-September/002803.html The concept appears to have been proposed in June 2009: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-June/002528.html Both on the confidential legal-talk list ... This is a perfect example of a process that never involved the average contributors. The existence of the legal-talk list, which is and has always been open to subscriptions by anyone, has been mentioned 88 times in postings on the talk list in 2009 alone; sometimes even in the message subject. In multiple messages during 2009 it was made clear that legal-talk is the place to have license discussions. It is therefore safe to assume that someone reading talk and interested in license discussions should have subscribed to legal-talk. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 2011-06-14 19:46, Frederik Ramm skrev: It is therefore safe to assume that someone reading talk and interested in license discussions should have subscribed to legal-talk. It's safe to assume most people will miss anything important until they been told in person three time got ten mails, it's been on the web-site, the wiki, and on the news. All important info have to be stated way to much for most people to see it. Telling there is a legal list and then assuming people interested in license stuff subscribes and finds out about it. Don't work, and all the time you keep sending this is for legal list, obviously shows. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk33qxsACgkQtbR3SXmySrdTUQCeN7jFrIHy8AnQ7FbrHHjDnn/g jQsAoJnXiQzO4RElUqtYTHT6+LJSZgAz =a52W -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Frage zu eine erstellten Wiki-Seite
hi ! habe heute morgen im Wiki die Seite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:barrier%3Dhedge_bank erstellt. Kann mir einer sagen warum diese nicht über die Suche gefunden werden kann bei hedge_bank bzw. nicht in der Liste der neu erstellten Seiten auftaucht ?!?!? Ist mir da ein Fehler unterlaufen ? Gruß Jan .-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
On 14 June 2011 14:40, Anders Arnholm and...@arnholm.se wrote: Telling there is a legal list and then assuming people interested in license stuff subscribes and finds out about it. Don't work, and all the time you keep sending this is for legal list, obviously shows. Most of the people discussing this topics being subscribers of the legal list is no random fact. We are there because we care about that area of the project, and that list is the place to discuss it without making regular users to unsubscribe from talk (I guess some of them are seriously thinking about it after receiving ~50 messages only from this thread). All the times Frederik et al. have had to send this is for the legal list messages to Nathan, John, etc., only show how some people do not want to send their LEGAL messages to the LEGAL list. It's not about not understanding that this discussion should take place there but just about not respecting the rest of the community (the ones that do NOT want to receive LEGAL discussion messages). Cheers, Julio Costa Zambelli ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Garmin to acquire Navigon
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheBoyGeniusReport/~3/8nAQktIAPQk/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Weekly OSM Summary #19
Hi, a new summary of all news in the OpenStreetMap World is out: http://opengeodata.org/weekly-osm-summary-19 Kind Regards, Pascal ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process
As per the implementation plan [1], we intend to move to phase 4 this Sunday 19th June or as soon after as is technically practical. This will mean that anyone who has explicitly declined the new contributor terms will no longer be able to edit, (unless they decide to accept). This currently numbers 406 in total compared to over 191,000 who now contribute under the new terms. They or our forking folks may wish to grab a planet dump now and another one just before the phase 5 cut-over to ODbL. Planet dumps are generally made every Wednesday as of 11:01 UK time and become available 3 days later. Next week's version will probably be made on Tuesday due to the coming UCL shutdown. I would emphasise there is currently no need to remove data from the live database since the license is still CC-BY-SA. I believe there is no urgency to do so until acceptances have been maximised, local issues that have a near term solution have been addressed and there is a sense of community consensus that it is time. The License Working Group will continue listening to all feedback. Regards, Mike License Working Group [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Poll on Governance, what constitutes news, wiki front page
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: I can't see any precedent for an unofficial poll being placed there. If you want a box to encourage discussion (because, after all, maybe people have just not noticed the 976234 channels we already have for it ;) ), maybe you could talk to the wiki guys and get one set up. But 'tain't news. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/News_Archive 2009 Dec 6 OSMF license change vote has started; unofficial community survey at http://doodle.com/feqszqirqqxi4r7w I happen to have a very clear memory of no voting on that doodle. -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !
My silence previously to legal discussions doesn't mean that I like them being on the main mailing list. I also subscribe to the legal list and read it as well. I'm not sure why it is difficult to subscribe to different mailing lists, mine are all filtered into different folders where I can read them depending on my view of their importance. There have been many legal discussions on this list and I think it would be difficult to be subscribed to talk and read it and not see those discussions. I know I would appreciate it if the licensing talk would move back to the legal list. I can't speak for anyone else though. Thank you, -Kate On Jun 14, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Nonsense. The separate list for legal discussions was created because legal discussions were drowning general mapping discussions and the community asked that legal discussions be moved to another list. legal-talk is not confidential it is a public list. It is open to join, and is archived. I'm currently counting 31 mailint lists in openstreetmap.org (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists) ! 31 mailing lists without the local lists.!! I subscribed to 7 of them which is probably much more than many of the readers here. How can you expect that every one concerned by the futur of the project subscribed to the legal list ?? What can be more important for the main list if it is not about a license change affecting so much the project itself ? Did you not receive in the past years enough feedbacks from enough different people to understand that you have an issue here ? Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Kate Chapman email: k8chap...@gmail.com U.S. mobile: +1 703 673 8834 Indonesian mobile: +62 82123068370 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. * Nearmap.com wishes to clarify the extent to which OpenStreetMap (OSM) may use additions or edits to its street maps which are derived from nearmap.com’s PhotoMaps. All such additions or edits submitted to OSM prior to 17 June 2011 may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual which submitted the addition or edit at the relevant time. From 18 June 2011, OSM may not accept or use any additions or edits to its streetmaps or any other data which is derived from nearmap.com PhotoMaps. If any data derived from nearmap.com PhotoMaps is provided to OSM after that date, it must be deleted from OSM’s database immediately. * For clarity; the second paragraph allows edits submitted before the 17th of June 2011 under CC-BY-SA (i.e., by someone who hadn't accepted the new CTs at the time of submission) *or* ODbL/whatever (by someone who had accepted the CTs at the time of submission) to stay in the database. For the Australian mappers in particular, this means that there need be no mass deletion of existing data based on tracing from nearmap.com PhotoMaps. It also means that nearmap.com PhotoMaps can't be used after the 17th of June as a basis for tracing data to submit to OSM. Again, I'd like to clarify that nearmap.com *have not changed anything in our licensing terms*. This is not us withdrawing our support. The OSMF are making a change to the contributor terms which makes them incompatible with the requirement, under our community licence, that derived works be distributed only under CC-BY-SA. We are not able to change our licence to allow distribution of derived works under unspecified future licences. Regards Ben -- *Ben Last* *Development Manager, HyperWeb* [image: nearmap.com] http://www.nearmap.com *T:* +61 8 9321 9340 | *D:* +61 8 6140 7212 | *F:* +61 8 9321 6876 | *M:*+61 423 475 673 *W:* www.nearmap.com | *A:* Ground Floor, 66 Kings Park Road, West Perth WA 6005 [image: leave us a message on facebook] http://www.facebook.com/nearmap [image: follow us on twitter] http://www.twitter.com/nearmap [image: nearmap youtube channel] http://www.youtube.com/nearmap [image: linkedin]http://www.linkedin.com/company/nearmap-pty-ltd [image: Get your Free nearmap.com newsletter now!]http://www.nearmap.com/nearmap/subscription (1) This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure or distribution of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact us, then delete the email. (2) Before opening or using attachments, check them for viruses and defects. The contents of this email and its attachments may become scrambled, truncated or altered in transmission. Please notify us of any anomalies. (3) Our liability is limited to resupplying the email and attached files or the cost of having them resupplied. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. Dear Ben, Thank you for providing this clear statement, for NearMap's contributions to the OpenStreetMap community, and for the generous decision to allow current NearMap-referenced data to remain in OSM. Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
benlast wrote: All such additions or edits submitted to OSM prior to 17 June 2011 may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual which submitted the addition or edit at the relevant time. Quick, everyone armchair-map Australia for the next three days :) Seriously, thanks for coming to a compromise here. -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Statement-from-nearmap-com-regarding-submission-of-derived-works-from-PhotoMaps-to-OpenStreetMap-tp6477012p6477060.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Question about contributor terms and derived contributions
I've read the current version of the contributor terms and have a question: If you contribute Contents, You are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our current licence terms. As far as I know, I have probably contributed data in the following circumstances: *Mapper A who has not accepted the change to ODbL drew two intersecting roads. *I note in person that there is a recently-added island-separated right-turn lane, and I add it (way B) based on the ways added by A and a rough estimate of its size. Now I am the only contributor in the history of way B and all of its nodes. Yet their locations are based on cc-by-sa data, and cannot be distributed under ODbL. What's the deal here? Am I misinterpreting the terms? Why am I capitalized? :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Invitation for Hack the Map A online Mapping Event
Dear Friend, Greetings of the Day. I on the behalf of Mapping Party Ludhiana invites you to the online OpenStreetMap editing event Hack the Map, which will be on June18, 2011 in Computational Lab of Guru Nanak Dev Engineering College, Ludhiana at 9.00 AM to 12.00 PM. If you are Interested in making the Map area of your own city, village, street or to make it better then do join us on June18, 2011. You can also join us online and work by just sitting at your home or workplace a this is online event to make the OpenStreetMaps better. Dr. H.S Rai with his immense presence will also teach the students that how edit maps with different technologies. Your presence will be warmly appreciated. It will be a great fun and learning. OSM Wiki Page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hack_the_Map#Descrition_of_the_Event Facebook Event Page: https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=105138696246370 -- Parveen Arora www.parveenarora.in E-Mail: o...@parveenarora.in ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process
Michael Collinson writes: As per the implementation plan [1], we intend to move to phase 4 this Sunday 19th June or as soon after as is technically practical. This will mean that anyone who has explicitly declined the new contributor terms will no longer be able to edit, (unless they decide to accept). What about the people who have declared their edits to be in the public domain? -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:44:12 +1000 (EST) John Berkers be...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Hi, We've got a few roads around here (Narre Warren South/Lynbrook) that are split and not yet joined. One such road is Glasscocks Road, which runs from Dandenong Frankston Road, through through Lynbrook and Narre Warren South to Clyde Road in Berwick. It is currently in three parts, and you can visualise where it is planned to go in future. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-38.0687lon=145.2707zoom=14layers=M It looks like there are a few hold-out land owners that have not yet sold their properties for redevelopment, but as soon as they do, the road will get filled in. I'm not sure about property numbering at this point. There are portions of Glasscocks Road with houses on, some portions without. Regards, when the Northern Distributor was built in Wollongong, it carved through a number of streets. I think Cross Street Corrimal has a number of pieces now unconnected. For numbering absurdity - the Sturt Highway wins. Numbers out of Adelaide increase to about 231000 after Paringa. We took photos at about 217000. In Vic I didn't note a house number from the driver's seat. At Gol Gol the numbers are about 8000 and decrease until Euston, except in each town they start again at 1 and 2 for each side of the road. No numbers Euston to Balranald, Hay and Darlington Point. Houses in Balranald and Hay are numbered ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
[snip] when the Northern Distributor was built in Wollongong, it carved through a number of streets. I think Cross Street Corrimal has a number of pieces now unconnected. For numbering absurdity - the Sturt Highway wins. Numbers out of Adelaide increase to about 231000 after Paringa. We took photos at about 217000. I'm actually a fan of this approach - i.e if you know which direction the numbers are going you just go that way until you find the one you want. In Vic I didn't note a house number from the driver's seat. At Gol Gol the numbers are about 8000 and decrease until Euston, except in each town they start again at 1 and 2 for each side of the road. This is the one frustrates the daylights out of me! Just way too hard to know if you are in the right place. Although doing it in towns is not as bad as doing it along Parramata road, unless they won't to paint pink dotted lines on the road for when you change suburbs ;-) cheers No numbers Euston to Balranald, Hay and Darlington Point. Houses in Balranald and Hay are numbered ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-legal-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process
-- Forwarded message -- From: Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz Date: 15 June 2011 06:30 Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Announce: Beginning of Phase 4 of license change process To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-t...@openstreetmap.org As per the implementation plan [1], we intend to move to phase 4 this Sunday 19th June or as soon after as is technically practical. This will mean that anyone who has explictly declined the new contributor terms will no longer be able to edit, (unless they decide to accept). This currently numbers 406 in total compared to over 191,000 who now contribute under the new terms. They or our forking folks may wish to grab a planet dump now and another one just before the phase 5 cut-over to ODbL. Planet dumps are generally made every Wednesday as of 11:01 UK time and become available 3 days later. Next week's version will probably be made on Tuesday due to the coming UCL shutdown. I would emphasise there is currently no need to remove data from the live database since the license is still CC-BY-SA. I believe there is no urgency to do so until acceptances have been maximised, local issues that have a near term solution have been addressed and there is a sense of community consensus that it is time. The License Working Group will continue listening to all feedback. Regards, Mike License Working Group [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] License change Phase 4 coming soon.
Just announced on legal-talk is that Phase 4[1] of the license change process is scheduled for this Sunday, 19 June 2011. During Phase 4, only contributors who have accepted CT/ODbL will be able to edit. That is, the 406 contributors who have declined CT/ODbL will not be able to edit. I understand that some of the readers of this list are uncertain of the status of their contributions to OSM that are made while referring to NearMap aerial imagery. The License Working Group have discussed this matter with representatives from NearMap several times during the license change process. We look forward to a reply from NearMap regarding this matter and will be sure to pass it along to you as soon as possible. In the interim, we recommend that you open a new OSM account and contribute only based on sources that are permitted under CT/ODbL. While we expect that the cut over to phase 4 will be some time Sunday, the time may shift one way or the other based on the availability of the volunteers who actually implement the change and any technical refinements that may be required. Best regards, Richard, on behalf of the License Working Group of the OSMF. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. * Nearmap.com wishes to clarify the extent to which OpenStreetMap (OSM) may use additions or edits to its street maps which are derived from nearmap.com’s PhotoMaps. All such additions or edits submitted to OSM prior to 17 June 2011 may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual which submitted the addition or edit at the relevant time. From 18 June 2011, OSM may not accept or use any additions or edits to its streetmaps or any other data which is derived from nearmap.com PhotoMaps. If any data derived from nearmap.com PhotoMaps is provided to OSM after that date, it must be deleted from OSM’s database immediately. * For clarity; the second paragraph allows edits submitted before the 17th of June 2011 under CC-BY-SA (i.e., by someone who hadn't accepted the new CTs at the time of submission) *or* ODbL/whatever (by someone who had accepted the CTs at the time of submission) to stay in the database. For the Australian mappers in particular, this means that there need be no mass deletion of existing data based on tracing from nearmap.com PhotoMaps. It also means that nearmap.com PhotoMaps can't be used after the 17th of June as a basis for tracing data to submit to OSM. Again, I'd like to clarify that nearmap.com *have not changed anything in our licensing terms*. This is not us withdrawing our support. The OSMF are making a change to the contributor terms which makes them incompatible with the requirement, under our community licence, that derived works be distributed only under CC-BY-SA. We are not able to change our licence to allow distribution of derived works under unspecified future licences. Regards Ben -- *Ben Last* *Development Manager, HyperWeb* [image: nearmap.com] http://www.nearmap.com *T:* +61 8 9321 9340 | *D:* +61 8 6140 7212 | *F:* +61 8 9321 6876 | *M:*+61 423 475 673 *W:* www.nearmap.com | *A:* Ground Floor, 66 Kings Park Road, West Perth WA 6005 [image: leave us a message on facebook] http://www.facebook.com/nearmap [image: follow us on twitter] http://www.twitter.com/nearmap [image: nearmap youtube channel] http://www.youtube.com/nearmap [image: linkedin]http://www.linkedin.com/company/nearmap-pty-ltd [image: Get your Free nearmap.com newsletter now!]http://www.nearmap.com/nearmap/subscription (1) This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure or distribution of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact us, then delete the email. (2) Before opening or using attachments, check them for viruses and defects. The contents of this email and its attachments may become scrambled, truncated or altered in transmission. Please notify us of any anomalies. (3) Our liability is limited to resupplying the email and attached files or the cost of having them resupplied. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. Dear Ben, Thank you for providing this clear statement, for NearMap's contributions to the OpenStreetMap community, and for the generous decision to allow current NearMap-referenced data to remain in OSM. Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] rationalising administrative boundaries
I've been working on my suburb (Brunswick East), and keep coming across tangled messes of ways caused by the boundary data effectively floating above different ways. Roads are being connected to the boundary instead of the the road. The road or other way has been moved to create a clear path for the boundary and vice-a-versa. I presume the overlapping sections of the boundary could be merged with the underlying way. Has anybody had any experience doing this and what are the potential pitfalls? Thanks Gary ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On 15 June 2011 09:36, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. Dear Ben, Thank you for providing this clear statement, for NearMap's contributions to the OpenStreetMap community, and for the generous decision to allow current NearMap-referenced data to remain in OSM. Does it? I haven't agreed to the CTs, therefore my NearMap tracings are CC-BY-SA, and hence will be purged from the database in Phase 5. James Andrewartha ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] License change Phase 4 coming soon.
On 15 June 2011 04:55, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Just announced on legal-talk is that Phase 4[1] of the license change process is scheduled for this Sunday, 19 June 2011. During Phase 4, only contributors who have accepted CT/ODbL will be able to edit. That is, the 406 contributors who have declined CT/ODbL will not be able to edit. How many contributors have neither accepted nor declined the CT/ODbL? James Andrewartha. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 10:39 +0800, James Andrewartha wrote: On 15 June 2011 09:36, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. Dear Ben, Thank you for providing this clear statement, for NearMap's contributions to the OpenStreetMap community, and for the generous decision to allow current NearMap-referenced data to remain in OSM. Does it? I haven't agreed to the CTs, therefore my NearMap tracings are CC-BY-SA, and hence will be purged from the database in Phase 5. Bens statement said: may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual In other words, nearmap allows you to make your own mind up in regards to derived data youve contributed. If you havent agreed to CTs, then your work will be removed, but if you wish to agree you are now not breaching any existing rights. So I guess that cuts down the amount of dirty data OSM will have in their DB, it doesnt remove it completely, but there seems to be no interest in a 100% clean db, as long as 99% is good enough. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On 15 June 2011 11:56, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 10:39 +0800, James Andrewartha wrote: On 15 June 2011 09:36, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi all As promised, with apologies for the delay, here is the statement from NearMap regarding submission of derived works of our PhotoMaps to OSM. Dear Ben, Thank you for providing this clear statement, for NearMap's contributions to the OpenStreetMap community, and for the generous decision to allow current NearMap-referenced data to remain in OSM. Does it? I haven't agreed to the CTs, therefore my NearMap tracings are CC-BY-SA, and hence will be purged from the database in Phase 5. Bens statement said: may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual In other words, nearmap allows you to make your own mind up in regards to derived data youve contributed. If you havent agreed to CTs, then your work will be removed, but if you wish to agree you are now not breaching any existing rights. So I guess that cuts down the amount of dirty data OSM will have in their DB, it doesnt remove it completely, but there seems to be no interest in a 100% clean db, as long as 99% is good enough. The words immediately following that quote are quite relevant: may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual which submitted the addition or edit at the relevant time. So only contributions a user made after the CT/ODbL was agreed to by that user (and before June 17 2011) can be kept. James Andrewartha ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] rationalising administrative boundaries
On 15 June 2011 12:16, Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com wrote: I've been working on my suburb (Brunswick East), and keep coming across tangled messes of ways caused by the boundary data effectively floating above different ways. Roads are being connected to the boundary instead of the the road. The road or other way has been moved to create a clear path for the boundary and vice-a-versa. I presume the overlapping sections of the boundary could be merged with the underlying way. Has anybody had any experience doing this and what are the potential pitfalls? The current boundaries will be removed in the near future, so if I were you I wouldn't spend to much time fussing over them. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Mt Cotton Road.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Mount-Cotton-Road-and-West-Mount-Cotton-Road-intersection-Sheldon.aspx Hi Stephen, From the above link it may be that the western arm is now West Mt cotton road and Broadwater road may not exist at all any more. These roads appear to have been mapped from imagery and certainly someone needs to survey the area to get the naming correct. The people at http://www.mtcottonguesthouse.com.au/index.php?page=location would probably be estatic if there was any map that was correct. Maybe someone can survey it and make OSM the one correct map and let the guesthouse know. They would certainly advertise OSM far and wide. Cheers Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Am 14.06.2011 07:31, schrieb Georg Feddern: Moin, Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: = wäre dann für soetwas landuse=forest als way und NICHT als AREA passender ??? Eine Hecke / ein Knick kann zwar genauso forstwirtschaftlich genutzt werden wie ein Wald. Aber warum möchtest Du zwei bereits eingeführte, etablierte Tags in einem zusammenfassen - nur um sie dann wieder über das dann notwendige area=yes auseinander dividieren zu müssen? Zumal das alle bereits als Fläche erfasste landuse=forest betreffen würde! Wozu willst Du das für Flächen genutzte landuse (das letztendlich insgesamt ja eine komplette lückenlose Oberfläche ergeben könnte) jetzt auf abstrahierte Linien abwandeln und damit neue Problemfälle á la highway und landuse (gemeinsame oder getrennte nodes) schaffen? Für die Erfassung eines Knicks als Fläche würde ich es bei landuse=scrub (forest eher nicht) belassen und für die Erfassung als abstrahierte Linie bei barrier=hedge. Damit können beide Fraktionen (abstrahierende Kartenersteller und lückenlose Datensammler) ;-) etwas anfangen. Selbst wenn beides parallel verwendet wird, beißt sich das nicht - im Gegensatz zu Deinem Vorschlag. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de hi ! aber wenn ich das allgemein richtig interprtiere, dann ist landuse=forest und natural=scrup, was bisher beides Verwendung immer als Fläche interpretiert- ja nicht für die Renderer. Aber wenn ich erst einmal damit anfange Knicks mit diesen flächen Objekten zu definieren ziehe ich mir vermutlich den Ärger der Gemeinschaft auf den Hals weil alles grotten schlecht aussieht. Und jeden Knick als Fläche auszugestalten finde ich übertrieben ! Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Erwassen von Erdwällen (Knicks)
Am 13.06.2011 22:24, schrieb Wolfgang: Hallo, Am Montag 13 Juni 2011 19:09:01 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: * ist barriere = hedge auch als Knick zu interpretieren ?? Nein. Hedge ist Hecke, Hecke != Knick. Ein Knick ist eine Wallhecke und sieht völlig anders aus als eine herkömmliche Hecke im Garten oder Park. Ich meine, davon sind in SH auch schon einige getaggt worden. barrier = hedge_bank 1396 Einträge bisher. Das Thema hatten wir aber schon mal... Gruß, Wolfgang Hi ! dann werde meine bisherigen auf diesen Werte erst einmal umstellen und auch die mir sonst so unterkommen Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Erwassen von Erdwällen (Knicks) - erledigt
Hi ! seht mein Posting als erledigt an - zumal barrier=hedge_bank schon von mapnik gerendert wird. Fehlt nur noch einmal eine entsprechende Wiki-Seite und eine Darstellung im JOSM-Style (vielleicht als Linienelement mit einer begleitenden Signatur aus kleinen gefüllten Dreiecken wechselseitig - so allgemeine Zeichenvorschrift) Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: aber wenn ich das allgemein richtig interprtiere, dann ist landuse=forest und natural=scrup, was bisher beides Verwendung immer als Fläche interpretiert- ja nicht für die Renderer. Wie bitte? Diese Formulierung habe ich nicht ganz verstanden - und was ich da hineininterpretiere, kann ich nicht ganz glauben (landuse=forest wird als Fläche interpretiert, aber ist nicht für die Renderer?) Bitte lieber noch einmal neu formulieren. Aber wenn ich erst einmal damit anfange Knicks mit diesen flächen Objekten zu definieren ziehe ich mir vermutlich den Ärger der Gemeinschaft auf den Hals weil alles grotten schlecht aussieht. Natürlich! Zumindest den eines Teils der Gemeinschaft - wenn auch nicht meinen. Und jeden Knick als Fläche auszugestalten finde ich übertrieben ! Natürlich! Wie auch ein Teil der Gemeinschaft - ich oft auch. Abstraktion und reale Abmessungen sind nunmal zwei verschiedene Dinge. Gerade deswegen habe ich ja beide Möglichkeiten erwähnt ... wofür Du Dich entscheidest, ist nunmal Deine Sache. Zu glauben, dass sich da eine Einigung der gesamten Gemeinschaft findet - halte ich schlicht für zu optimistisch, denn dazu sind die Interessen zu unterschiedlich. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Kartenbereich aus API-Export rendern
Wolfgang wolfgang at ivkasogis.de writes: Die Arbeit steckt darin, dass du den Stil aus Layern erst selbst zusammensetzen musst. Habe ich probiert. Stil für highway=residential basierend aus drei Linien. Eine weiße in der Mitte und zwei schwarze außen. Die Übergänge zwischen den Straßen sehen jetzt besch... aus. Die schwarzen Linien ragen in die kreuzenden Straßen. Was mache ich falsch? Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Kartenbereich aus API-Export rendern
Am 14. Juni 2011 09:26 schrieb Manuel Reimer manuel.s...@nurfuerspam.de: Wolfgang wolfgang at ivkasogis.de writes: Die Arbeit steckt darin, dass du den Stil aus Layern erst selbst zusammensetzen musst. Habe ich probiert. Stil für highway=residential basierend aus drei Linien. Eine weiße in der Mitte und zwei schwarze außen. Die Übergänge zwischen den Straßen sehen jetzt besch... aus. Die schwarzen Linien ragen in die kreuzenden Straßen. Was mache ich falsch? oft rendert man erst eine etwas dickere schwarze Linie (für alle Straßen im Gebiet), (das nennt sich casing), und erst danach mit weiss (oder sonst wie) die eigentliche Straße darüber. Zuletzt die Beschriftung. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Proposal/Vorschlag: sport=table_football //Re: Kicker-Kneipe (pub features wie Billiard, Dart usw.)
Am Montag, 13. Juni 2011 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Amenity finde ich extrem ungeeignet, und auch sport oder leisure als Haupttag sind nicht m.E. weniger geeignet. Eher als subtags. Hi, Jan. Nach einigem Suchen habe ich hier genau diese Verfahrensweise gefunden: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sport Since this is a non-physical tag it should be combined with one of these (physical) tags: ... tourism=hotel (swimming, golf, tennis, ...) amenity=restaurant (10pin, ...) amenity=pub (billiard, darts, pinball, ...) Also, einen Flipperautomat kann man schon taggen (amenity=pub,sport=pinball), aber für Tischfußball fehlt noch die Einigung auf ein englischsprachiges Tag (table_soccer oder table_football wie es in der Wikipedia heißt). Ich habe hier eine Diskussion angestoßen/ein Proposal eingereicht: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:sport#Proposal:_Table_Football.2FSoccer_in_Pubs http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE_talk:Key:sport Gruß Ralf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Probleme mit Nominatim
Am Dienstag, 22. März 2011 schrieb Andreas Neumann: Moin, nachdem ich gesehen hab, dass es hier patente Leute in Fragen Nominatim gibt, reposte ich mal einen Beitrag aus dem Forum: Hallo Andreas, wenn hier schon Experten mitlesen: 1. Ich schlage auch hier noch einmal vor, dass die Suche nach Windmühle man_made=windmill findet. 2. Ich schlage weiterhin vor, dass die Suche nach Spielplatz Karlsruhe (Beispiel funktioniert) nicht nur eine Liste von Spielplätzen mit Adresse anzeigt, sondern dass die Treffer auch auf der Karte angezeigt werden (nicht einzeln, Kartenausschnitt entsprechend). Vielen Dank! Ralf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Erwassen von Erdwällen (Knicks) - erledigt
Hallo, Am Dienstag 14 Juni 2011 08:45:24 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Fehlt nur noch einmal eine entsprechende Wiki-Seite und eine Darstellung im JOSM-Style (vielleicht als Linienelement mit einer begleitenden Signatur aus kleinen gefüllten Dreiecken wechselseitig - so allgemeine Zeichenvorschrift) Siehe dazu auch http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:T.woelk/Knicks Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Proposal/Vorschlag: sport=table_football //Re: Kicker-Kneipe (pub features wie Billiard, Dart usw.)
Am 14. Juni 2011 10:55 schrieb RalfGesellensetter r...@gmx.de: Am Montag, 13. Juni 2011 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Amenity finde ich extrem ungeeignet, und auch sport oder leisure als Haupttag sind nicht m.E. weniger geeignet. Eher als subtags. Hi, Jan. Nach einigem Suchen habe ich hier genau diese Verfahrensweise gefunden: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sport Since this is a non-physical tag it should be combined with one of these (physical) tags: ... tourism=hotel (swimming, golf, tennis, ...) amenity=restaurant (10pin, ...) amenity=pub (billiard, darts, pinball, ...) Also, einen Flipperautomat kann man schon taggen (amenity=pub,sport=pinball), aber für Tischfußball fehlt noch die Einigung auf ein englischsprachiges Tag (table_soccer oder table_football wie es in der Wikipedia heißt). Ich habe hier eine Diskussion angestoßen/ein Proposal eingereicht: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:sport#Proposal:_Table_Football.2FSoccer_in_Pubs http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE_talk:Key:sport M.E. ist Flippern keine Sportart, genausowenig wie Kampftrinken oder Mensch-ärgere-dich-nicht-spielen. Das haben auch die Mapper bisher so gesehen (nur 3 mal wurde sport=pinball verwendet, bzw. 5 mal wenn man Kombinationen miteinbezieht). http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sport%3Dpinball#tags Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Kartenbereich aus API-Export rendern
Hallo, Am Dienstag 14 Juni 2011 09:26:30 schrieb Manuel Reimer: Habe ich probiert. Stil für highway=residential basierend aus drei Linien. Eine weiße in der Mitte und zwei schwarze außen. Die Übergänge zwischen den Straßen sehen jetzt besch... aus. Die schwarzen Linien ragen in die kreuzenden Straßen. Was mache ich falsch? Male 2 Linien. In der Logig des Programms legst du erst eine weiße Linie und darunter eine schwarze dickere Linie fest. Dann sieht du schon, dass die weiße Linie Vorrang vor der Schwarzen hat. Wenn du verschiedene Straßentypen miteinander zum Schnitt bringen willst, ohne dass das Innere der einen Linie durch den Rand der anderen ausgesperrt wird, musst du alle dazugehörigen Straßentypen im selben Layer unterbringen und über die Schaltfläche Symboltypen eine Rangfolge definieren. Grundsatz: Rand mit niedriger Nummer, Mitte mit hoher Nummer. Im Prinzip funktioniert das mit 3 Linien genauso. (Version 1.7!) Für die Beschriftung gibt es eine extra-Schaltfläche im Hauptmenü unter Layers. Sie enthält eine erst kürzlich eingebaute, komfortablere Beschriftung als die Ältere, die im eigentlichen Layer zugängig ist. Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Proposal/Vorschlag: sport=table_football //Re: Kicker-Kneipe (pub features wie Billiard, Dart usw.)
Am Dienstag, 14. Juni 2011 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: M.E. ist Flippern keine Sportart, genausowenig wie Kampftrinken oder Mensch-ärgere-dich-nicht-spielen. Das haben auch die Mapper bisher so gesehen (nur 3 mal wurde sport=pinball verwendet, bzw. 5 mal wenn man Kombinationen miteinbezieht). Dem stimme ich zu, ich würde auch keine Flipper oder gar Geldspielautomaten als Sportgeräte taggen (eher gamblin). Danke für den Suchlink... http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sport%3Dpinball#tags Damit konnte ich je einmal finden: table_soccer table_football french_table_football foosball tischfußball Eine Harmonisierung ist dringen erforderlich - und Voraussetzung für das Auffinden von Kickertischen an unbekannten Orten... Danke Ralf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Krankenhausgebäude und -fläche korrekt taggen
Am 14. Juni 2011 00:13 schrieb Garry garr...@gmx.de: Am 13.06.2011 21:16, schrieb Johann H. Addicks: p.s. Diesen Auszug gab's in Z15: http://osm.org/go/0MGgqLbd-- Ich sehe da nichts schlimmes daran - ein halbes Dutzend (jedes mit einer gewissen Eigenberechtigung) auf ein paar Hektar verteilt, kommt nur in grösseren Städten vielleicht 2-3mal/Stadt vor - wo ist das Problem? Ich finde das auch nicht tragisch, im Gegenteil ist es m.E. richtig, die Krankenhauskonzentration anzuzeigen. Wenn man sich über cluttering aufregen will, finde ich die Parkplatzzeichen deutlich störender. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Moderiertes Webformular für POIs statt Potlatch oder Yellow Pages
Liebe Liste, hin und wieder tauchte der Vorschlag auf, dass kommerzielle POI-Betreiber (Kneipiers, Hoteliers) ihre spezifischen Angebote (Biersorten, Öffnungszeiten) komfortabel (und evtl. kostenpflichtig) in einer seperaten Datenbank pflegen (können) sollten. Dies hätte in der Tat einige Vorteile, wenn sich die Daten sauber trennen ließen - was ich aber bezweifele. Wie wäre es hingegen mit einem speziellen Frontend für Geschäftsleute, die ihre Einrichtung benutzerfreundlich in einem Webformular darstellen möchten (nur OSM-relevante Informationen, keine Webvisitenkarte oder sowas!). Im Hintergrund würden die entsprechenden Tags gesetzt bzw. ein Änderungssatz generiert, der (bei fehlendem Login) moderiert würde. Ginge so etwas? Wie hoch wäre wohl der Arbeitsaufwand? Gäbe es Spam- und Editwars? Wären diese zu bewältigen? Ließe sich verhindern, dass Konkurrenten gegenseitig ihre Öffnungszeiten manipulieren? Es lohnt sich m.E. darüber nachzudenken und zu diskutieren. Gruß Ralf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Resorts = landuse=residental ??
Am 14. Juni 2011 01:00 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de: Aber für ein Hotel passt residential einfach nicht. Lesenswert: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wohngebiet Hotels, sonstiges nichtstörendes Gewerbe, , auch hier das Hotel als Gewerbe auf einer Stufe mit Tankstellen und im Text der deutliche Unterschied zwischen dauerhaftem Wohnen und anderen Aufenthaltsformen. seltsam, dass Du das als Argument gegen residential ansiehst, dass auch im deutschen Baurecht Hotels in Wohngebieten zulässig sind. Eine Stufe mit Tankstellen würde ich das nicht gerade nennen (Umweltverträglichkeitsgutachten, etc.). Sogar in reinen Wohngebieten (strenger als residential in OSM) können kleine Betriebe des Beherbergungsgewerbes als Ausnahme zugelassen werden, in allgemeinen Wohngebieten fällt das kleine weg, und in besonderen Wohngebieten (Gebiete zur Erhaltung und Entwicklung der Wohnnutzung) sind Hotels generell zulässig. http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/baunvo/__4a.html Es handelt sich bei Hotels ja um Gewerbe, von daher passt landuse=commercial vielleicht wirklich besser als residential. Landuse ist aber sowieso nicht so gut auf alle Arten von Fällen vorbereitet, z.B. Krankenhäuser, Universitäten, Schulen, Sportanlagen, Stadien, Veranstaltungshallen, Diskotheken, Museen, Kirchen, etc. sind ebenfalls noch unklar, industrial ist sehr unscharf, da es nicht zwischen Industrie und Gewerbe unterscheidet, ... Am besten wäre wohl landuse=hotelzone. landuse=accomodation ? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Moderiertes Webformular für POIs statt Potlatch oder Yellow Pages
Hallo, Am Dienstag 14 Juni 2011 11:28:58 schrieb RalfGesellensetter: Liebe Liste, hin und wieder tauchte der Vorschlag auf, dass kommerzielle POI-Betreiber (Kneipiers, Hoteliers) ihre spezifischen Angebote (Biersorten, Öffnungszeiten) komfortabel (und evtl. kostenpflichtig) in einer seperaten Datenbank pflegen (können) sollten. Dies hätte in der Tat einige Vorteile, wenn sich die Daten sauber trennen ließen - was ich aber bezweifele. Wie wäre es hingegen mit einem speziellen Frontend für Geschäftsleute, die ihre Einrichtung benutzerfreundlich in einem Webformular darstellen möchten (nur OSM-relevante Informationen, keine Webvisitenkarte oder sowas!). Im Hintergrund würden die entsprechenden Tags gesetzt bzw. ein Änderungssatz generiert, der (bei fehlendem Login) moderiert würde. Ginge so etwas? Wie hoch wäre wohl der Arbeitsaufwand? Gäbe es Spam- und Editwars? Wären diese zu bewältigen? Ließe sich verhindern, dass Konkurrenten gegenseitig ihre Öffnungszeiten manipulieren? Es lohnt sich m.E. darüber nachzudenken und zu diskutieren. Hast du dich damit freiwillig gemeldet, solche weltweit möglichen Anmeldungen zu moderieren? Wenn das einschlägt, dann viel Spaß! Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Resorts = landuse=residental ??
Hallo, Am Dienstag 14 Juni 2011 11:39:39 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 14. Juni 2011 01:00 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de: Aber für ein Hotel passt residential einfach nicht. Lesenswert: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wohngebiet Hotels, sonstiges nichtstörendes Gewerbe, , auch hier das Hotel als Gewerbe auf einer Stufe mit Tankstellen und im Text der deutliche Unterschied zwischen dauerhaftem Wohnen und anderen Aufenthaltsformen. seltsam, dass Du das als Argument gegen residential ansiehst, dass auch im deutschen Baurecht Hotels in Wohngebieten zulässig sind. Eine Stufe mit Tankstellen würde ich das nicht gerade nennen (Umweltverträglichkeitsgutachten, etc.). Ist im Text aber so dargestellt. In der Aufzählung unter sonstiges nichtstörendes Gewerbe steht auch Tankstelle, und sonstiges bindet das Hotel mit ein. Sogar in reinen Wohngebieten (strenger als residential in OSM) können kleine Betriebe des Beherbergungsgewerbes als Ausnahme zugelassen werden, in allgemeinen Wohngebieten fällt das kleine weg, und in besonderen Wohngebieten (Gebiete zur Erhaltung und Entwicklung der Wohnnutzung) sind Hotels generell zulässig. http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/baunvo/__4a.html Wie üblich sollte man nicht übertreiben. Es gibt kleine Hotels, die in einem Wohnblock z.B. die 2. und 3. Etage belegen. Dafür wird kaum jemand den Landuse ändern wollen. Die Hotelzone von Miami Beach oder s'Arenal de Palma (Mallorca) würde ich dagegen eher nicht als residential taggen. Das Ambiente unterscheidet sich doch etwas, speziell abends... Es handelt sich bei Hotels ja um Gewerbe, von daher passt landuse=commercial vielleicht wirklich besser als residential. Landuse ist aber sowieso nicht so gut auf alle Arten von Fällen vorbereitet, z.B. Krankenhäuser, Universitäten, Schulen, Sportanlagen, Stadien, Veranstaltungshallen, Diskotheken, Museen, Kirchen, etc. sind ebenfalls noch unklar, industrial ist sehr unscharf, da es nicht zwischen Industrie und Gewerbe unterscheidet, ... Am besten wäre wohl landuse=hotelzone. landuse=accomodation ? +1 Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Krankenhausgebäude und -fläche korrekt taggen
Hallo, Am Dienstag 14 Juni 2011 11:20:44 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 14. Juni 2011 00:13 schrieb Garry garr...@gmx.de: Am 13.06.2011 21:16, schrieb Johann H. Addicks: p.s. Diesen Auszug gab's in Z15: http://osm.org/go/0MGgqLbd-- Ich sehe da nichts schlimmes daran - ein halbes Dutzend (jedes mit einer gewissen Eigenberechtigung) auf ein paar Hektar verteilt, kommt nur in grösseren Städten vielleicht 2-3mal/Stadt vor - wo ist das Problem? da bin ich so bei einer kurzen Suche in HH auf 8 Kandidaten gestoßen, aber auch nur so wenige, weil einige Krankenhäuser neu gebaut wurden und nur noch aus einem Gebäude bestehen. Glücklicherweise sind die meisten IMHO vernünftig gemappt. Positiv: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.5907lon=9.97479zoom=17layers=M Gegenbeispiel: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.469343lon=9.938196zoom=18layers=M Ich finde das auch nicht tragisch, im Gegenteil ist es m.E. richtig, die Krankenhauskonzentration anzuzeigen. Wenn man sich über cluttering aufregen will, finde ich die Parkplatzzeichen deutlich störender. Wenn das Ganze organisatorisch ein Krankenhaus ist, sollte auch das Krankenhauszeichen nur einmal auftreten. Meine Meinung. Aber ich will jetzt keinen neuen Monterthread lostreten, den hatten wir schon mal ohne Ergebnis... Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Moderiertes Webformular für POIs statt Potlatch oder Yellow Pages
Am 14. Juni 2011 11:28 schrieb RalfGesellensetter r...@gmx.de: hin und wieder tauchte der Vorschlag auf, dass kommerzielle POI-Betreiber (Kneipiers, Hoteliers) ihre spezifischen Angebote (Biersorten, Öffnungszeiten) komfortabel (und evtl. kostenpflichtig) in einer seperaten Datenbank pflegen (können) sollten. das gibt es schon zuhauf: separate z.T. kostenpflichtige POI-Datenbanken ;-) Wie wäre es hingegen mit einem speziellen Frontend für Geschäftsleute, die ihre Einrichtung benutzerfreundlich in einem Webformular darstellen möchten (nur OSM-relevante Informationen, keine Webvisitenkarte oder sowas!). Interessant wäre das sicherlich, einen special interest Editor zu haben, z.B. spezialisiert auf die Eingabe von Läden oder Restaurants oder sonstigem Gewerbe mit Maske zur Eingabe von Adresse und Kontaktdaten, Öffnungszeiten, sowie ggf. Checkboxen/Dropdowns für Zusatzattribute (z.B. Cuisine). Etwas, wo man ohne Vorwissen oder Anleitung einen POI in OSM eingeben kann, weitgehend ohne Eingabe von Freitext. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Am 14. Juni 2011 08:32 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net: Am 14.06.2011 07:31, schrieb Georg Feddern: = wäre dann für soetwas landuse=forest als way und NICHT als AREA passender ??? das halte ich für Vollquatsch. Landuse ist eine Fläche, keine Linie. Ein Wald ist eine Fläche und keine Linie. Aber wenn ich erst einmal damit anfange Knicks mit diesen flächen Objekten zu definieren ziehe ich mir vermutlich den Ärger der Gemeinschaft auf den Hals weil alles grotten schlecht aussieht. kommt vermutlich drauf an, wie Du es machst. Ich halte Flächen für nicht unbedingt schlecht (kenne aber die Knicks auch nicht), weil sie die Breite und Ausdehnung bereits beinhalten. Je mehr man klar macht, um so weniger muss geraten werden. Wie das dann im Rendering aussieht (ob man es überhaupt darstellt) steht auf einem anderen Blatt. Und jeden Knick als Fläche auszugestalten finde ich übertrieben ! und warum ? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Kartenbereich aus API-Export rendern
Wolfgang wolfgang at ivkasogis.de writes: Male 2 Linien. In der Logig des Programms legst du erst eine weiße Linie und darunter eine schwarze dickere Linie fest. Dann sieht du schon, dass die weiße Linie Vorrang vor der Schwarzen hat. Funktioniert. Danke erstmal dafür. Wie bekomme ich nun alles mit building=yes ausgeblendet, andere Polygone aber eingeblendet? Bei mir sind alle relevanten Daten im Feld tags verwurstet, egal wie ich die OSM-Daten importiere. Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Warum Ort in braunton (Zarpen)
hi ! kann mir einer sagen warum Mapnik http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117599601, im Gegensatz zu anderen Orten mit landuse=residental, in einem braunton statt grauton rendert ?? Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Warum Ort in braunton (Zarpen)
Am 14.06.11 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: kann mir einer sagen warum Mapnik http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117599601, im Gegensatz zu anderen Orten mit landuse=residental, in einem braunton statt grauton rendert ?? vielleicht, weil Mapnik den Typ vom ersten outer des Multipolygons http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1516690 wählt, das ist ein landuse = farmyard (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117599600). Das place=village auf dem Feld, wenn es denn eins ist, ist vermutl. auch nicht gewollt. Gruß, Fabian.___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Warum Ort in braunton (Zarpen)
Moin, Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: kann mir einer sagen warum Mapnik http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117599601, im Gegensatz zu anderen Orten mit landuse=residental, in einem braunton statt grauton rendert ?? weil der genannte residential-way Teil eines Multipolygons mit der Rolle 'outer' ist - aber ein weiterer Weg ebenfalls mit der Rolle 'outer' als landuse=farmyard enthalten ist. Mapnik darf sich also aussuchen, wie er das _Multipolygon_ malen soll ... und da hat er sich halt für das hübschere Braun entschieden. ;-) Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Warum Ort in braunton (Zarpen)
Am 14. Juni 2011 13:13 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net: kann mir einer sagen warum Mapnik http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117599601, im Gegensatz zu anderen Orten mit landuse=residental, in einem braunton statt grauton rendert ?? Du solltest dort mal ein bisschen aufräumen. Mach alle Tags, die nur für das Multipolygon ohne die inner ways gelten an die Relation und nur was für den kompletten outer way gelten soll bleibt am way. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Resorts = landuse=residental ??
Am 14. Juni 2011 12:01 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de: Hallo, Am Dienstag 14 Juni 2011 11:39:39 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 14. Juni 2011 01:00 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de: Aber für ein Hotel passt residential einfach nicht. Lesenswert: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wohngebiet Hotels, sonstiges nichtstörendes Gewerbe, , auch hier das Hotel als Gewerbe auf einer Stufe mit Tankstellen und im Text der deutliche Unterschied zwischen dauerhaftem Wohnen und anderen Aufenthaltsformen. seltsam, dass Du das als Argument gegen residential ansiehst, dass auch im deutschen Baurecht Hotels in Wohngebieten zulässig sind. Eine Stufe mit Tankstellen würde ich das nicht gerade nennen (Umweltverträglichkeitsgutachten, etc.). Ist im Text aber so dargestellt. In der Aufzählung unter sonstiges nichtstörendes Gewerbe steht auch Tankstelle, und sonstiges bindet das Hotel mit ein. stimmt nicht. Tankstellen sind zusätzlich zu sonstigem nichtstörendem Gewerbe aufgezählt, so wie es auch die BauNVO macht. Wie das in anderen Ländern geregelt ist, hängt aber vom Land ab. (residential=(allgemeines/reines/besonderes?) Wohngebiet nach deutschem Recht) ist daher nicht unbedingt für alle Implikationen / Besonderheiten gültig. Wie üblich sollte man nicht übertreiben. Es gibt kleine Hotels, die in einem Wohnblock z.B. die 2. und 3. Etage belegen. Dafür wird kaum jemand den Landuse ändern wollen. ist ja nichtmal erforderlich, damit es ein reines Wohngebiet bleibt. Eine Gerberei dürfte man da aber nicht mal im 3. Stock betreiben... Die Hotelzone von Miami Beach oder s'Arenal de Palma (Mallorca) würde ich dagegen eher nicht als residential taggen. Das Ambiente unterscheidet sich doch etwas, speziell abends... +1 daher sind wir uns ja einig: ein landuse für Hotel-areale wäre nicht schlecht. Falls es ums subtaggen geht, wäre allerdings zu prüfen, ob commercial nicht besser als Hauptgruppe geeignet ist als residential. Wegen mir kann man das aber auch umgehen, indem man gleich einen Haupttag im landuse einführt (wir haben ja sowieso bisher auch für alles einen Extratag, s. brownfield etc.) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Knicks im Wiki
Moin ! habe jetzt dazu einmal eine Wiki-Seite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:barrier%3Dhedge_bank erstellt. Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte zum heutigen Mühlentag (PR)
RalfGesellensetter r...@gmx.de wrote: Ähnlich wie die OpenPlaygroundMap sollte zum heutigen ^^ sollte, würde, könnte... Bei freien Projekten gibt es doch immer nur das was jemand macht. Natürlich wäre eine openanytagmap cool, dann wäre auch meien brewpub Map nur noch Webseitendesign. Datum der Launch einer OpenMillingMap (oder so) für findige Kartenbastler ein Leichtes sein. Das POI Problem ist nicht wirklich ganz so einfach zu lösen, denn man möchte ja nicht nur Punkte sondern auch flächige Objekte berücksichtigen. Unterm Strich bräuchte man dazu so ne Art Extended XAPI ein XXAPI sozusagen :) Gruss Sven -- Den Rechtsstaat macht aus, dass Unschuldige wieder frei kommen (Wolfgang Schäuble) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Komplexes Linienmuster für JOSM
hi ! kann mir einer sagen wie man ein komplexes Linienmuster für JOSM erstellen kann - wenn das geht? Ich möchte eine Linie habe bei der in regelmäßigen Abständen rechts und links kleine gefüllte Dreiecke angezeigt werden. Wenn man so will die Pfeile der Einbahnstraße an der Seite aufgezogen - berühren aber die Linie mit einer Dreiecksseite. Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Radwanderkarte - like Wanderkarte
o...@tappenbeck.net o...@tappenbeck.net wrote: es gibt ja so eine tolle Wanderkarte als Webseite (http://hiking.lonvia.de/de) - gibt es soetwas auch für Radwege bzw. ist in Planung. Meines Wissens nicht. Wenn ich mich recht erinne hatte sich jemand in den Aufzeichnungen zur Fossgis 2011 dazu erkundigt als Sarah ihren Beitrag abgeschlossen hatte. Ja, das war ich. Der Opencyclemap layer gefällt mir nämlich nicht wirklich. Das Vorhaben dürfte durch die Vorarbeit von Sarah nicht sehr aufwendig werden, ich habe aber bisher noch nichts in diese Richtung unternommen. Gruss Sven -- Der normale Bürger ist nicht an der TU Dresden und schreibt auch nicht mit mutt. (Ulli Kuhnle in de.comp.os.unix.discussion) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte zum heutigen Mühlentag (PR)
Am 14.06.2011 14:13, schrieb Sven Geggus: RalfGesellensetter r...@gmx.de wrote: Ähnlich wie die OpenPlaygroundMap sollte zum heutigen ^^ sollte, würde, könnte... Bei freien Projekten gibt es doch immer nur das was jemand macht. Natürlich wäre eine openanytagmap cool, dann wäre auch meien brewpub Map nur noch Webseitendesign. Datum der Launch einer OpenMillingMap (oder so) für findige Kartenbastler ein Leichtes sein. Das POI Problem ist nicht wirklich ganz so einfach zu lösen, denn man möchte ja nicht nur Punkte sondern auch flächige Objekte berücksichtigen. Unterm Strich bräuchte man dazu so ne Art Extended XAPI ein XXAPI sozusagen Wie sieht das bei POIs in einem Haus aus ? Ich gebe dem Gebäude (geschlossener Linie) die Adressinformation und setzte zB den Laden als Punkt, wo sich der Eingang befindet, auf die Linie. Brauche ich für den Punkt auch nochmal die Adressinformation oder werden die vom Gebäude benutzt ? Die selbe Frage habe ich dann auch noch zur associatedStreet: Soll ich da alle zB alle Läden (POIs) aufnehmen oder reicht das Gebäude. cu fly ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Moderiertes Webformular für POIs statt Potlatch oder Yellow Pages
RalfGesellensetter r...@gmx.de wrote: Wie wäre es hingegen mit einem speziellen Frontend für Geschäftsleute, die ihre Einrichtung benutzerfreundlich in einem Webformular darstellen möchten (nur OSM-relevante Informationen, keine Webvisitenkarte oder sowas!). http://cartogis.de/eintragungsservice/ Gruß Sven -- The source code is not comprehensible (found in bug section of man 8 telnetd on Redhat Linux) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Am 13.06.2011 20:28, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck = wäre dann für soetwas landuse=forest als way und NICHT als AREA passender ??? Dafür gibt es doch natural=tree_row: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:natural%3Dtree_row Gruß fly ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navigon POI aus OSM Daten
Am 12.06.2011 22:11, schrieb Ulf Möller: Am 12.06.2011 15:08, schrieb Stephan Knauss: Hat jemand ein Navigon Gerät und dieses POI Paket gekauft? Könnte mal über Erfahrungen damit berichtet werden? Ich hatte eine Zeitlang ein Testgerät mit einer Vorabversion und kann bestätigen, dass die Daten unter CC-BY-SA stehen und (C) OpenStreetMap contributors und die Lizenz bei den Credits genannt wird. Außerdem wurde ich gebeten, dazu die Ankündigung im Anhang weiterzuleiten. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de Artikel bei golem.de: http://www.golem.de/1106/84174.html (Mit ordentlicher Quellenangabe am Artikelbild!) Schöne Woche! Grüße Dominik -- Dominik Wegerle fortunequest o...@dwegerle.eu ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Am 14.06.2011 14:38, schrieb fly: Am 13.06.2011 20:28, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck = wäre dann für soetwas landuse=forest als way und NICHT als AREA passender ??? Dafür gibt es doch natural=tree_row: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:natural%3Dtree_row Gruß fly ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de Hi ! was Du meinst ist eine Allee!!! Schau mal ins Wiki barrier=hedge_bank da ist auch ein Bild ! Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Am 14.06.2011 14:35, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Am 14.06.2011 14:38, schrieb fly: Am 13.06.2011 20:28, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck = wäre dann für soetwas landuse=forest als way und NICHT als AREA passender ??? Dafür gibt es doch natural=tree_row: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:natural%3Dtree_row Gruß fly ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de Gruß zurück. Sorry, war wohl etwas zu kurz. was Du meinst ist eine Allee!!! Nein, nur mehrere Bäume in einer Linie. Bei einer Allee sind das schon zwei ! Schau mal ins Wiki barrier=hedge_bank da ist auch ein Bild ! Dachte ja auch nur zusätzlich, falls eine Fläche schon als natural oder landuse gemapt ist ! cu fly ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Probleme mit Nominatim
wenn hier schon Experten mitlesen: 1. Ich schlage auch hier noch einmal vor, dass die Suche nach Windmühle man_made=windmill findet. 2. Ich schlage weiterhin vor, dass die Suche nach Spielplatz Karlsruhe (Beispiel funktioniert) nicht nur eine Liste von Spielplätzen mit Adresse anzeigt, sondern dass die Treffer auch auf der Karte angezeigt werden (nicht einzeln, Kartenausschnitt entsprechend). In OLM ist der 2. Aspekt möglich. Einen Ausschnitt auf der Karte betrachten, Suchbegriff oder POI-Typ eingeben und den Haken unter dem Suchfeld setzen. Marker werden zur Zeit keine angezeigt, weil ich die DB umstelle. Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Kartenbereich aus API-Export rendern
Nachtrag: Was ich gefunden habe, und mich angenehm überrascht hat, ist das hier: http://maps.cloudmade.com/editor Leider sind die Daten bei denen zu alt. Wege, die ich bräuchte, sind nicht in deren Datenbank. Ansonsten ist das Tool aber genial. Keine 10 Minuten habe ich gebraucht und hatte annähernd die Darstellung, die ich haben will. Hier und da hätte ich wohl noch retuschieren müssen, aber im groben hat das schon gut ausgesehen. Eine Anfrage habe ich noch bei QGIS laufen. Wenn das nichts bringt, gebe ich das Thema rendern wegen zu komplex auf und lade mir doch die Mapnik-Tiles ins GIMP um die gewünschten Änderungen manuell in der Rastergrafik zu machen. Ist ja ganz nett gemeint, aber ich baue mir doch nicht mein ganzes System um, nur um zwei Quadratkilometer Karte zu rendern... Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] alternativen und Linienbegleitend
Am 14. Juni 2011 14:35 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net: Am 14.06.2011 14:38, schrieb fly: Am 13.06.2011 20:28, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck = wäre dann für soetwas landuse=forest als way und NICHT als AREA passender ??? was Du meinst ist eine Allee!!! Schau mal ins Wiki barrier=hedge_bank da ist auch ein Bild ! was er verlinkt hat war keineswegs eine Allee sondern eine Baumreihe, schau mal ins Wiki, da ist auch ein Bild (sogar 2): https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree_row Dein hedge_bank hat allerdings trotzdem seine Berechtigung, weil es - wie ich das feature in Wikipedia verstanden habe - ja ein Wall und Bäume darauf sind. Wenn es nur lineares Gestrüpp/Bäume sind (also ohne Wall), dann kann/sollte man hedge benutzen. tree_row würde ich dagegen eher als durchlässig sehen, wie eine Allee oder die Baumreihe auf dem anderen Bild. In der von Dir erstellten Wikiseite steht am Ende, dass das flächenhafte Erfassen keinen Sinn mache. Dem kann ich nicht beipflichten. Oder sind die Knicke immer gleich breit? Flächenhaftes Erfassen hat mehrere Vorteile, z.B. kann man damit Objekte im Knick erfassen, was bei einer Linie nur bedingt geht (und weniger Aussage haben wird, weil unklar bleibt, wo genau sich das Objekt befindet). Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte zum heutigen Mühlentag (PR)
fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Ich gebe dem Gebäude (geschlossener Linie) die Adressinformation und setzte zB den Laden als Punkt, wo sich der Eingang befindet, auf die Linie. Brauche ich für den Punkt auch nochmal die Adressinformation oder werden die vom Gebäude benutzt ? Die selbe Frage habe ich dann auch noch zur associatedStreet: Soll ich da alle zB alle Läden (POIs) aufnehmen oder reicht das Gebäude. Also wie nichtexistente Tools funktionieren kann ich nicht beantworten :) Ich klebe bei Gebäuden mit einzelnen Läden drin normalerweise alle Informationen an das Gebäude dran und setze keine zusätlichen Nodes mehr, aber das ist Geschmackssache. Die POI Geschichte ist jedenfalls schon aufwendig genug um sich auch noch freiwillig so Relationsgeraffel anzudichten. Gruss Sven -- Den Rechtsstaat macht aus, dass Unschuldige wieder frei kommen (Wolfgang Schäuble) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
