Re: [Talk-transit] child relations in type=route, route=bus
I have no idea whether Potlatch can or can't. I've been waiting almost 2 years and now that I found the possiblity to work with child relations in JOSM, I decided to to a little experiment with them. In the mean time, I'm not entirely convinced it's the best way to go anymore. On the one hand there is something to say for it, since so many bus lines are using the parts of the same routes, but I'm pretty sure that if one gets the PT companies to share their data, it's not going to be in there with child relations. So I'll probably be deleting them once again, soon. Jo 2010/9/29 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com On 29 September 2010 10:31, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: Lots of relations is probably conceptually less complicated than child relations, so I'd probably go for that, editors-allowing. Can one deal with this in Potlatch, which is the entry-level editor for most mappers, and common editor for 1/3 of all users? (Mind you, there are things Potlatch can do that are hardly possible in Josm or Merkaartor) -- Best regards, mit freundlichen Grüssen, meilleurs sentiments, Pozdrowienia, Michał Borsuk ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] bus stops/platforms with electronic display of when the buses pass through
Hi, I didn't find a tag to use for synoptic displays indicating when buses are coming through (either as a time left to wait, or a full display of normal time+delay) at the bus stop level. And another one (at the bus_station level) with all the buses that are passing through (like the ones in train stations and airports). That one may even deserve its own node to indicate where it is and possibly even an indication in what direction it's facing. Jo ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] bus stops/platforms with electronic display of when the buses pass through
Hi, I use departures_board=yes/no on platforms (or stops). cheers ant On 01.10.2010 22:39, Jo wrote: Hi, I didn't find a tag to use for synoptic displays indicating when buses are coming through (either as a time left to wait, or a full display of normal time+delay) at the bus stop level. And another one (at the bus_station level) with all the buses that are passing through (like the ones in train stations and airports). That one may even deserve its own node to indicate where it is and possibly even an indication in what direction it's facing. Jo ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] bus stops/platforms with electronic display of when the buses pass through
Hi, For bus stops I use ticker=yes/no. I'm sure I saw that documented somewhere and didn't come up with it on my own but a fairly exhaustive wiki search to provide a link for you came up completely dry so who knows. Cheers, Greg On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I didn't find a tag to use for synoptic displays indicating when buses are coming through (either as a time left to wait, or a full display of normal time+delay) at the bus stop level. And another one (at the bus_station level) with all the buses that are passing through (like the ones in train stations and airports). That one may even deserve its own node to indicate where it is and possibly even an indication in what direction it's facing. Jo ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] bus stops/platforms with electronic display of when the buses pass through
The early ones in the UK (in London) were known as countdown, and that's kinda stuck as a generic name, but I've no idea if anyone's used that as a tag. Richard On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I didn't find a tag to use for synoptic displays indicating when buses are coming through (either as a time left to wait, or a full display of normal time+delay) at the bus stop level. And another one (at the bus_station level) with all the buses that are passing through (like the ones in train stations and airports). That one may even deserve its own node to indicate where it is and possibly even an indication in what direction it's facing. Jo ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] child relations in type=route, route=bus
2010/10/1 Jo winfi...@gmail.com [...] I'm pretty sure that if one gets the PT companies to share their data, it's not going to be in there with child relations. Usually (e.g. HaFas) timetables consist of a number of routes, and those are very detailed, each direction is mapped separately, and e.g. if a bus ends its day not at the terminus, then it's yet another route. This approach is easier to store in a database, but is in my opinion that one step too detailed for humans to manage in OSM. It would apparently make sense to make a collection named line 123, and store child routes withing that collection, but as of today there is no efficient way to deal with this. -- Best regards, mit freundlichen Grüssen, meilleurs sentiments, Pozdrowienia, Michał Borsuk ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-hr] source = TOPO 25 VGI BEOGRAD
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 07:22:29 +, Valent Turkovic wrote: idem poslati poruku na legal listu ako vec vi niste pa ga tamo pozvati na otvorenu raspravu Poslao sam mail na legal listu, Matija ti imaš više znanja na tu temu pa te molim da dopuniš moj mail ako smatraš da sam nešto izostavio ili krivo napisao. Hvala, Valent. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [Talk-hr] poziv hrvatskim biciklistima
On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 14:30:52 +0200, hbogner wrote: Ja promoviram OSM na dropbike forumu: http://www.dropbike.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42 Odlično, uzet ću tvoju poruku kao osnovu za dopis ostalim forumima i biciklističkim udrugama. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [Talk-hr] OpenStreetMap LinuxZaSve Forum
2010/9/30 Matija Nalis mnalis-openstreetmapl...@voyager.hr Recimo se pretplatis na listu koristici gmail.com ili bilo koji drugi e-mail sustav koje ima webmail? Imas pristup preko weba, lagano mozes pratiti preko weba, imati pretrazivanje, filtriranje, oznacavanje favourites i drugih tagova itd. Ovo ne rješava pitanje kako će netko 'novi' provjeriti da li je neko pitanje već raspravljeno. A uvijek je bolje generalno riješiti problem i treba težiti tome. ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[Talk-hr] Rijeka ima heben ortofoto
http://www2.rijeka.hr/dof10/ Imaju odlicnu snimku rezolucije 10cm, web aplikacija je također vrlo dobro napravljena, jedini nedostatak koji vidim je što nije slippy karta pa nema povlačenja mišem već za to postoji poseban alat. Od mogućnosti koje vidim tu je mjerenje kuta, površine i duljine. Sve odlične i praktične stvari za hrpe ljudi i službi koji se bave raznim poslovima. Nisam probao ali vidim da imaju i export u pdf trentunog pogleda. Kao dodatan sloj podatak može se uključiti i katastar. Ima li još koji grad ovako dobro i javno dostupnu ortofoto kartu? Ako sam ja u Osijeku dobio na korištenje ortofoto za OSM projekt vjerovatno bi se moglo dobiti i za Rijeku. Koliko sam čuo grad Rijeka je otvoreniji za suradnje nego što je to Osijek ili drugi gradovi. Ima li ekipe iz Rijeke na mailing listi? Nisam gledao tko je najaktivniji u Rijeci no mogu pomoći u zamolbi i pomoći oko pregovora za ortofoto grada Rijeke za potrebe OSM projekta ako će lokalna RI ekipa koristiti ortofoto za unos podataka u OSM. Valent. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [Talk-hr] source = TOPO 25 VGI BEOGRAD
Ma ništa bolje ne crta sve ove duple točke u BiH su njegove nadam se da neće više crtati po Hr. Za karte čisto sumljam da su legalne za crtanje. crveni križići su njegovi :) http://bit.ly/dtpqgD ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[talk-ph] Laurel - Tagaytay Road that pass through disneyland Fwd: talk-ph post from banito_pi...@yahoo.com requires approval
Bunny, We don't allow attachment in the talk-ph list. Best to link images on another image repo. Or if you are showing osm maps, simply give the url to the osm map. For bunny's inquiry, the link to the map is here: http://osm.org/go/4zKqgcHm- -- Forwarded message -- From: Leonard Soriano banito_pi...@yahoo.com To: OpenStreetMap Philippines talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 02:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Hi All, Anyone familiar which road from Laurel to Tagaytay (vice-versa) that pass through some kind of disneyland castle along the road. Attach is the map which shows 3 roads that links laurel-tagaytay. In this map, is it the road on the Left, Middle or Right? Thanks. --bunny -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Bat scientist looking for cave data
Hi, I have a bat ecologist colleague looking for data of cave locations in the Philippines. We have a few in OSM: http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Philippines/En/tagstats_natural_cave_entrance.html Most are in Biak na Bato: http://osm.org/go/4zlCgo7g-- Waypoints.ph has few touristic caves as well. I encourage you guys to visit and add caves all over the country. This is an important data for bat and cave conservationists. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Laurel - Tagaytay Road that pass through disneyland Fwd: talk-ph post from banito_pi...@yahoo.com requires approval
2 years ago, my cousins got lost coming from Laurel going up to Tagaytay ridge via these roads (they became narrower as they went up the mountain, enough to fit one car only). So, I don't recommend any of the barangay roads mentioned going down to Laurel via tagaytay ridge. It's rainy season. Someone needs to verify first if they're slippery or 'tracks only' (4x4 trail). The safer road to use is the one with disney-like castle, which is Diokno Highway (green-color southwards). http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.0415573120117lon=120.857334136963zoom=13 Driving Directions: Coming from Tagaytay, along Tagaytay-Nasugbu Road, turn left to Diokno Hwy at the intersection just before reaching Nasugbu boundary. This road will pass by Canyon Woods gate Fantasy World (castles). At the end of Diokno Highway, turn left to the provincial road going to Lemery. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:11 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: Bunny, We don't allow attachment in the talk-ph list. Best to link images on another image repo. Or if you are showing osm maps, simply give the url to the osm map. For bunny's inquiry, the link to the map is here: http://osm.org/go/4zKqgcHm- -- Forwarded message -- From: Leonard Soriano banito_pi...@yahoo.com To: OpenStreetMap Philippines talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 02:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Hi All, Anyone familiar which road from Laurel to Tagaytay (vice-versa) that pass through some kind of disneyland castle along the road. Attach is the map which shows 3 roads that links laurel-tagaytay. In this map, is it the road on the Left, Middle or Right? Thanks. --bunny -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Laurel - Tagaytay Road that pass through disneyland Fwd: talk-ph post from banito_pi...@yahoo.com requires approval
Hi Ed, I am just actually looking at the possible way from tagaytay ridge going down to laurel. i do remember that there is this road that pass through disneyland but I'm not sure which was it. thanks for the info. --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Laurel - Tagaytay Road that pass through disneyland Fwd: talk-ph post from banito_pi...@yahoo.com requires approval To: Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com Cc: osm-ph talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 10:48 AM If you really must go to Laurel via the Diokno Highway (also known as the Payapa route), there is a sign a little after Canyon Woods that points to Laurel. it would basically be all downhill from there. So, From travelling from Canyon Woods to Laurel would be easier that from Laurel to Canyon Woods. Still, rough roads though. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: I know there's a barangay community and a road that crosses in the middle of Canyon Woods, which appears on osm map leading to Laurel's poblacion. It is best to ask local people if this road is safe or passable during rainy season. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: 2 years ago, my cousins got lost coming from Laurel going up to Tagaytay ridge via these roads (they became narrower as they went up the mountain, enough to fit one car only). So, I don't recommend any of the barangay roads mentioned going down to Laurel via tagaytay ridge. It's rainy season. Someone needs to verify first if they're slippery or 'tracks only' (4x4 trail). The safer road to use is the one with disney-like castle, which is Diokno Highway (green-color southwards). http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.0415573120117lon=120.857334136963zoom=13 Driving Directions: Coming from Tagaytay, along Tagaytay-Nasugbu Road, turn left to Diokno Hwy at the intersection just before reaching Nasugbu boundary. This road will pass by Canyon Woods gate Fantasy World (castles). At the end of Diokno Highway, turn left to the provincial road going to Lemery. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:11 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Bunny, We don't allow attachment in the talk-ph list. Best to link images on another image repo. Or if you are showing osm maps, simply give the url to the osm map. For bunny's inquiry, the link to the map is here: http://osm.org/go/4zKqgcHm- -- Forwarded message -- From: Leonard Soriano banito_pi...@yahoo.com To: OpenStreetMap Philippines talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 02:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Hi All, Anyone familiar which road from Laurel to Tagaytay (vice-versa) that pass through some kind of disneyland castle along the road. Attach is the map which shows 3 roads that links laurel-tagaytay. In this map, is it the road on the Left, Middle or Right? Thanks. --bunny -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
Kevin, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: (b) that there is a very clear (and legally sound) description of the effect of the new licence when the time comes to vote so we can make an informed decision which way to vote based on the effect it will have. I don't know how long you have been following the process, but the vote is long past. Members of the OSMF have had such a vote last year and agreed to go ahead with the new license. The switch to ODbL is already decided; further votes are not planned. All mappers will be asked to agree to the Contributor Terms, thereby effectively agreeing to the relicensing. At that point they have the option to not agree, in which case OSMF will stop distributing their data; but this is not a vote, just an individual opt-in. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
I thought I had read that there would be a second phase vote at the time of switch over based on a full understanding of data loss and effect. I can't now find that reference so I may have imagined it. What is happening with the revisions to the CTs? Will we have to accept/decline again? I have accepted the first version, but aren't they now changing? Kevin --Original Message-- From: Frederik Ramm To: ke...@cordina.org.uk To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Sent: 1 Oct 2010 08:37 Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license Kevin, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: (b) that there is a very clear (and legally sound) description of the effect of the new licence when the time comes to vote so we can make an informed decision which way to vote based on the effect it will have. I don't know how long you have been following the process, but the vote is long past. Members of the OSMF have had such a vote last year and agreed to go ahead with the new license. The switch to ODbL is already decided; further votes are not planned. All mappers will be asked to agree to the Contributor Terms, thereby effectively agreeing to the relicensing. At that point they have the option to not agree, in which case OSMF will stop distributing their data; but this is not a vote, just an individual opt-in. Bye Frederik Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
Hi, sorry for replying a little late, I'm not up to date, On 28 September 2010 21:19, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: Which would be true if I had the technical ability to render the data. I don't. However, some kind soul has written a renderer for OSM data that does it for me. See, that's exactly the problem we're having. There's this nice data set which I'd like rendered/on my Garmin/... but sadly I don't know how to process that sanely. Let's just import into OpenStreetMap because once it is there, I automatically get nice maps. OSM is not the we render anything for you because you can't do it yourself project. Statements like yours above make me even more determined to say no to imports - you openly admit that you have no desire in actually maintaining the data, you just want to use OSM as a giant rendering engine. That's really sad. You're really making no sense, sorry. If there is a street which is not in OpenStreetMap, but its data is avaiable from a compatible source then let's add it. If there's nothing better available than GPS to capture the geometry then let's use that, although likely it will be lower quality. The only reason people are adding data to OSM is because they want a complete map they can realiably use for routing, rendering and many more, often innovative, uses. Missing data in OSM is a very good (perhaps the only?) reason to add data to OSM, and this is exactly what Kevin did. What is your use case that you prefer a less complete map? It's not like he wanted a imaginary map for his computer game and abused OSM, he wanted something that OSM is supposed to be, a map of the Earth. He used the right tool to get what he wanted, at the same time helping all the other people who also need a map. Cheers ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
What was the original vote deciding? What version of ODbl or ODbl + CT or ODbl + CT (current version)? I assume I needed to be a member of OSMF to have been included in the vote. I noticed there are 265 members. The vote was 89% yes from 55% of members. Here is a copy of the human-readable summery that the vote appears to be on. This is a human-readable summary of the ODbL 1.0 license. Please see the disclaimer below. You are free: * To Share: To copy, distribute and use the database. * To Create: To produce works from the database. * To Adapt: To modify, transform and build upon the database. As long as you: * Attribute: You must attribute any public use of the database, or works produced from the database, in the manner specified in the ODbL. For any use or redistribution of the database, or works produced from it, you must make clear to others the license of the database and keep intact any notices on the original database. * Share-Alike: If you publicly use any adapted version of this database, or works produced from an adapted database, you must also offer that adapted database under the ODbL. * Keep open: If you redistribute the database, or an adapted version of it, then you may use technological measures that restrict the work (such as DRM) as long as you also redistribute a version without such measures. Disclaimer This is not a license. It is simply a handy reference for understanding the ODbL 1.0 - it is a human-readable expression of some of its key terms. This document has no legal value, and its contents do not appear in the actual license. Read the full ODbL 1.0 license text for the exact terms that apply. Shouldn't there be another vote if any conditions have changed since the first vote? I would have thought this would be mandatory. markus -Original Message- From: legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of ke...@cordina.org.uk Sent: Friday, 1 October 2010 6:22 PM To: Frederik Ramm; Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license I thought I had read that there would be a second phase vote at the time of switch over based on a full understanding of data loss and effect. I can't now find that reference so I may have imagined it. What is happening with the revisions to the CTs? Will we have to accept/decline again? I have accepted the first version, but aren't they now changing? Kevin --Original Message-- From: Frederik Ramm To: ke...@cordina.org.uk To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Sent: 1 Oct 2010 08:37 Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license Kevin, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: (b) that there is a very clear (and legally sound) description of the effect of the new licence when the time comes to vote so we can make an informed decision which way to vote based on the effect it will have. I don't know how long you have been following the process, but the vote is long past. Members of the OSMF have had such a vote last year and agreed to go ahead with the new license. The switch to ODbL is already decided; further votes are not planned. All mappers will be asked to agree to the Contributor Terms, thereby effectively agreeing to the relicensing. At that point they have the option to not agree, in which case OSMF will stop distributing their data; but this is not a vote, just an individual opt-in. Bye Frederik Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 09:37:14 +0200 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I don't know how long you have been following the process, but the vote is long past. Members of the OSMF have had such a vote last year and agreed to go ahead with the new license. The switch to ODbL is already decided; further votes are not planned. I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? OSMF is a small set of persons and is not representative of OSM as a community. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On 10/01/2010 10:38 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? The vote. OSMF is a small set of persons and is not representative of OSM as a community. Any representational or governing body will be a small set of persons. Depending on which sense of representative you are using, the vote rings true given my experience of OSM debates around licencing and OSMF is as open and responsible or more so than other Free projects. Anyone can join OSMF. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On 01/10/10 11:01, Rob Myers wrote: On 10/01/2010 10:38 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? The vote. That is effectively an admission that you don't have a mandate from the contributors because the vote was only of OSMF members, not of the OSM project generally. Any representational or governing body will be a small set of persons. Depending on which sense of representative you are using, the vote rings true given my experience of OSM debates around licencing and OSMF is as open and responsible or more so than other Free projects. The OSMF may support the community, but it doesn't represent the community. For them to be representative, there would have to be some direct accountability to mapping contributors and I don't see any mechanism in place for that. Anyone can join OSMF. How is that relevant to OSMF having a mandate? TimSC ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:01:12 +0100 Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 10/01/2010 10:38 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? The vote. OSMF is a small set of persons and is not representative of OSM as a community. Any representational or governing body will be a small set of persons. Depending on which sense of representative you are using, the vote rings true given my experience of OSM debates around licencing and OSMF is as open and responsible or more so than other Free projects. Anyone can join OSMF. - Rob. The vote is not a mandate. It is a vote of a subset of persons. Being a member of the OSM community is not a condition of belonging to OSMF. Not everyone can join OSMF. Joining is restricted to persons with enough spare cash to pay a fee in Pounds Sterling, access to a system for international money transfer if not in the UK, and a number of other practical points dependent on UK law - I would expect that minors are not supposed to be voting members of a UK company. The ability to manage well in written English would be a practical requirement. To pick an obvious example, the persons who mapped Nigerian slums are unlikely to have the financial resources to join. Most students don't have such resources. I would not expect the students involved in mapping ShimlaPuri to have the financial resources. OSMF was set up for a particular purpose. Because responsibility for the servers implies responsibility for the contents, the extension was made to the licence. OSMF extended itself this privilege, not the OSM community. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? It doesn't. That's why it's asking the rights-holders to change the licence for the data which they've contributed[1]. What OSMF does have, though, is a mandate to host whatever it likes at openstreetmap.org, because it's the owner of the domain name: ~/OpenStreetMap/potlatch2: whois openstreetmap.org [snip] Domain Name:OPENSTREETMAP.ORG Created On:09-Aug-2004 18:47:25 UTC whois Registrant Organization:OpenStreetMap Foundation ...just as I can host whatever I like at systemeD.net or geowiki.com, Frederik can host whatever he likes at geofabrik.de, John can host whatever he likes at evilbunny.org, and so on. OSMF has determined, through decisions taken by the elected board and through a plebiscite of its members, that it would like to host an ODbL+CT dataset at openstreetmap.org, subject to such a dataset being viable. That does not change the licence of the data. Only the rights-holders[1] can do that. Regardless of whether any given rights-holder decides to additionally offer their data under ODbL+CT, the existing data is still available under CC-BY-SA and you can host it anywhere you like, e.g. at fosm.org. But it's OSMF's choice as to what happens at openstreetmap.org. Richard [1] insofar as rights exist etc. etc. -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-OS-Opendata-the-new-license-tp5538273p5590900.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 03:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? It doesn't. That's why it's asking the rights-holders to change the licence for the data which they've contributed[1]. I agree with what you are writing here. It is of course not what Frederick is writing, in which he clearly states that the licence is changing. I am then told I can agree with the CTs. But I disagree with the ODbL - where do I get a chance to agree or not agree to sign up to that? The OSMF vote did not include the CTs in the current form. I really thought that it was just about the licence, and that the CTs were still in alpha format at the time.(of course, whether they have reached beta yet is a matter for discussion). ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On 01/10/10 11:57, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I ask once more from where did OSMF get a mandate to change the licence? It doesn't. That's why it's asking the rights-holders to change the licence for the data which they've contributed[1]. My mind is slightly boggled by you stating OSMF doesn't have a mandate, contrary to OSMF's claims. I guess you are conflating the legal right for license change with the mandate. They really are separate things. Anyway, the planned relicensing doesn't confer a mandate. It only asks about an individual's contribution, not about the direction of the project. What OSMF does have, though, is a mandate to host whatever it likes at openstreetmap.org, because it's the owner of the domain name: Ownership of something doesn't imply a mandate to change it. One is a legal concept, the other is political. OSMF has determined, through decisions taken by the elected board and through a plebiscite of its members, that it would like to host an ODbL+CT dataset at openstreetmap.org, subject to such a dataset being viable. You didn't mention OSMF having to consult the contributors, which makes this mandate questionable at best. We are talking about governance of the OSM project. Legitimacy of governing bodies, in some people's view, comes from consent of the governed. Without that consent, there is no mandate. It may be possible to argue that OSMF did try to engage the community. Rather than me try to make the case, it's more fun seeing what justifications people are trying to use on the mailing list! On 01/10/10 12:04, Rob Myers wrote: OSMF would not be competent if it ignored the problems with the licence. It would be failing in its duty. Where is the community mandate for that duty? The OSMF just assuming powers is what is at the core of the question of mandate. TimSC ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On 1 October 2010 21:04, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: You're joking. It's a few pints worth of money. Nice, just insult most people not in a first world nation, that sort of money is a months worth of wages (or more) to some... ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
TimSC wrote: It may be possible to argue that OSMF did try to engage the community. Rather than me try to make the case, it's more fun seeing what justifications people are trying to use on the mailing list! Seriously? You actually see this as some sort of trolling contest, trying to get a rise out of people because it's more fun? I've been taking part in the debate because I'm keen to see that OpenStreetMap has the best licence possible and the most high-quality geodata under that licence. I realise Liz has already posted elsewhere that she's aiming to be disruptive, but I hadn't realised that it was some form of sub-4chan concerted trolling expedition. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-OS-Opendata-the-new-license-tp5538273p5591187.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On 01/10/10 12:04, Rob Myers wrote: OSMF would not be competent if it ignored the problems with the licence. It would be failing in its duty. Where is the community mandate for that duty? The OSMF just assuming powers is what is at the core of the question of mandate. OSMF's creation moved OSM to a participatory governance structure. That's not an assumption of powers in the absence of a community mandate, that's giving more power to the community. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On 01/10/10 13:43, Richard Fairhurst wrote: TimSC wrote: It may be possible to argue that OSMF did try to engage the community. Rather than me try to make the case, it's more fun seeing what justifications people are trying to use on the mailing list! Seriously? Seriously, no. :) I was hinting at something else, and you have interpreted me in a way that I did not intend. I guess I should make myself clearer in future. I was jokingly suggesting that I was not trying to steer the discussion away from irrelevant points (like the ownership of the domain and the fact that the OSMF board is elected). But really I was trying to get people to talk about OSMF community engagement. Sorry my hint was not very obvious. The REAL reason I don't make that case is I don't believe its valid. But that is the best approach to demonstrating a mandate IMHO. Anyway, enjoying a discussing doesn't necessarily imply I am trying to troll the list. Please assume good faith. TimSC ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Oct 1, 2010, at 6:43 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: TimSC wrote: It may be possible to argue that OSMF did try to engage the community. Rather than me try to make the case, it's more fun seeing what justifications people are trying to use on the mailing list! Seriously? You actually see this as some sort of trolling contest, trying to get a rise out of people because it's more fun? I've been taking part in the debate because I'm keen to see that OpenStreetMap has the best licence possible and the most high-quality geodata under that licence. I realise Liz has already posted elsewhere that she's aiming to be disruptive, but I hadn't realised that it was some form of sub-4chan concerted trolling expedition. You must be new here... Personally I think it's time to consider kickbanning the trolls with the fake names. Half of them got booted from wikipedia it seems, so I don't see why we have to put up with it. Steve stevecoast.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:31 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: At worst we have conflicting reports. I'll take legal advice over reported email comments in that case, though. That's fine for the half dozen (?) of you who have access to that legal advice. But for the tens of thousands of us who only have access to the conflicting legal advice... ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp;amp; the new license
Markus_g marku...@... writes: What was the original vote deciding? The vote, of OSMF members only, was on 'I approve the process' or 'I do not approve the process'. (Those were the two choices in the vote.) -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:58 AM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Personally I think it's time to consider kickbanning the trolls with the fake names. TimSC is a fake name? If so, what's SteveC? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Oct 1, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Anthony wrote: On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:58 AM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Personally I think it's time to consider kickbanning the trolls with the fake names. TimSC is a fake name? If so, what's SteveC? Both are very easy to discover. Hell, you can even get my phone number from my website. The hint is in the signature. You on the other hand actively hide your real name, and the fact you were banned from wikipedia. Or would you like to correct me? And, also, when I questioned you about it on the 80n mailing list, he apparently moderated my post. Steve stevecoast.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 7:38 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: On Oct 1, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Anthony wrote: On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:58 AM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Personally I think it's time to consider kickbanning the trolls with the fake names. TimSC is a fake name? If so, what's SteveC? Both are very easy to discover. Hell, you can even get my phone number from my website. The hint is in the signature. You on the other hand actively hide your real name, and the fact you were banned from wikipedia. Or would you like to correct me? And, also, when I questioned you about it on the 80n mailing list, he apparently moderated my post. Steve, I assume you are referring to this mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/osm-fork I've pasted your account settings below. As you can see your account is not moderated, and as far as I know, has never been moderated. We are very pleased to have you as a member of the group. *Nickname* SteveC *Email* steveco...@gmail.com - search for recent messages to this group http://groups.google.com/group/osm-fork/search?q=author:steveco...@gmail.com *Joined* Thurs, Aug 26 2010 11:42 am *Subscription type* No Email - read this group on the web Email - send each message as it arrives Abridged Email - send a summary of new activity each day Digest Email - send all new messages in a single daily email *Membership type* Regular member - members can read the archives and post messages Manager - managers can approve pending messages and members and can change group settings Owner - group owners can remove the group in addition to changing all settings *Posting permission* Default group policy - Member is allowed to post Override - Member is allowed to post Override - Member is not allowed to post Override - Member's posts are moderated *Remove steveco...@gmail.com* - no longer allowed to post messages or read the archive - may not rejoin the group or apply for membership. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 05:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: I realise Liz has already posted elsewhere that she's aiming to be disruptive, but I hadn't realised that it was some form of sub-4chan concerted trolling expedition. As the choices offered by some people seem to be limited to accept licence || leave OSM accept the views of group X || trolling and as I am substantially older than the majority of you, I know that the world is not black and white, and that consensus is possible, even at this stage in the argument. Disruption can be the passive resistance of Mahatma Ghandi or the fire-bombing tactics of IRA (I guess my choices here show my age). Certainly continuing to ask questions which are relevant and which don't get answered is disruptive, because it forces people to stop what they are doing and answer, even though some of the answers I receive are immature and impolite. The data I have contributed (by ground survey, please note) will remain copyright to myself, and is not going to be included in the ODbL database. Would you kindly indicate how you are going to remove it? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On 10/01/2010 11:28 PM, Anthony wrote: She's not going to delete her existing contributions from the current project, she's just not going to contribute them to the new project. There's a new project? How exciting! What's it called? - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
This message has gone OT. On 01/10/2010 19:38, SteveC wrote: Both are very easy to discover. Hell, you can even get my phone number from my website. What do you want, a medal? The hint is in the signature. You on the other hand actively hide your real name, And how does that detract from a persons argument? Broadcasting the fact you think a contributor, who disagrees with you, should be banned purely because they have a nickname is: petty/puerile/childish/insecure/inept/pompous/arrogant Please, take your pick. But above all, it's irrelevant. The fact I still haven't had a definitive answer to my simple question (I was the OP) without caveats being added (even by you) only proves that there's an argument/discussion to be made. I can't make an informed decision about which way I should go until I have concrete evidence about what will happen with the data, in all it's forms, that I have added. Steve, you should take a step back look at the whole scenario. Cheers Dave F. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On 01/10/2010 23:53, Grant Slater wrote: On 1 October 2010 23:40, andrzej zaborowskibalr...@gmail.com wrote: The people who drafted the CT are not very keen on discussing the CT here otherwise, so this may be the only way to let them know and exercise some democracy in the project. I am not the most wordy person in the world. I've never expected an LWG member to be verbose. As I said in my OP: As I'm a simple lad, can I ask any replies to be a clear, concise factual as possible please. All I've ever wanted was categorical, non caveat answers. After all this time that the LWG has been discussing this subject, I'm still unable to receive an objective answer. I find that disappointing. Some just seem to enjoy arguing, draining goodwill and have stated they are here to be politely disruptive. The vast majority just want the truth. When are we going to get it? regards Dave F. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On 1 October 2010 21:55, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: Would you kindly indicate how you are going to remove it? Discussion on handling how to measure 'clean feed' data was started here: (same problem) http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2010-August/020124.html There is also some minor addition discussion in the previous weeks minutes 3rd Aug 2010: https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_74fzvpnxds Jim* is also waiting on the publishing of the ODbL accepts list like these rest of us. LWG received permission to publish the list from the OSMF Board in the last week. * = Jim as a member of the foundation asked to join the LWG. LWG discussed on 13th July call and his request was accepted. https://docs.google.com/View?id=dc3bxdhs_2hnm5xwcp He hasn't yet been able to attend many calls. Regards Grant ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license
On Oct 1, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: This message has gone OT. On 01/10/2010 19:38, SteveC wrote: Both are very easy to discover. Hell, you can even get my phone number from my website. What do you want, a medal? Yes please. The hint is in the signature. You on the other hand actively hide your real name, And how does that detract from a persons argument? Because if someone is continually trolling, which is what's happening it isn't a mere disagreement, then it's highly relevant that the person was kicked out of the largest crowd sourced project for doing the same thing. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp;amp; the new license
Thank you. Regards, Markus_g -Original Message- From: legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Avis Sent: Saturday, 2 October 2010 2:58 AM To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp;amp; the new license Markus_g marku...@... writes: What was the original vote deciding? The vote, of OSMF members only, was on 'I approve the process' or 'I do not approve the process'. (Those were the two choices in the vote.) -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countries that have NOT had any imports?
Have there been any data imports in Northern Ireland? It's not included in the Ordnance Survey OpenData release (there is a separate Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland), nor in the NaPTAN public transport database. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: I am Assuming Good faith. ;-) I don't think the emails I read on this list are lies. But that's a lot different from thinking that they're correct. To wit, the phrase OS OpenData _is_ compatible is most likely a paraphrase, and is not nearly precise enough to convince me of anything, especially when it contradicts statements made by others. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Are there any other projects in a similar fork situation? (Slightly OT)
Hi With the various forks that could/are taking place within OSM I'm curious if there are any other examples? If so, what were their outcomes? Did any re-converge? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: CommonMap Mediawiki and Drupal sites
The following may be of interest to: * Those who wish to contribute to CommonMap in future (i.e. adventures in non-Sharealike mapping) * Tracking how well a Drupal site integrates with an OSM-like Rails website * Those who also have experience in Drupal sysadmin Thanks, Brendan Original Message Subject:CommonMap Mediawiki and Drupal sites Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 11:20:30 +1000 From: Brendan Morley morb...@commonmap.info Organisation: CommonMap Inc To: frie...@commonmap.info, osm-f...@googlegroups.com Friends of CommonMap and OSM fork group, As you may know I have a Mediawiki site up at http://www.commonmap.info/ and an evaluation Drupal site up at http://demo.commonmap.org/drupal/ I think the Drupal site is good enough to fork into the flagship position at http://www.commonmap.info/ And I would like to move the current inhabitant of http://www.commonmap.info/ to something like http://old.commonmap.info/ I would like to do this in the next few days. However as a sanity check I'd like to check in with the community, see if you can see a flaw in my plan. So, a little bit of background behind my motivation: The intent of evaluating the Drupal software was to determine if it could take over the wiki role, as well as the user diary, issue tracking, etc. In OSM this is either covered by bespoke software (User Diaries) or spread over several point solutions. In contrast, Drupal brings the User diary (or in Drupal terms, per user blogs) function into a larger community of developers. Wrapping in the other functions (like issue tracking) should allow for much richer hyperlinking within the CommonMap community. Other nice things that Drupal gives us: * ReCAPTCHA spam deterrents * Larger development community generally * Filter by communities of interest (Professional vs Amateur, by region, etc) * Event posting and reminders * Forum * User profiles and friending I can post the full list of Drupal modules I intend to enable, if anyone is interested. Generally the intent is to let OSM's rails code only handle the stuff that unique to OSM-style projects (e.g. the REST API, and the metadata browsing pages like http://www.demo.commonmap.org/browse/changeset/113) - and let Drupal do the things that can benefit from a wider development community. As for timing, well I really would like to launch this CommonMap thing much more publicly and a big remaining part of that is getting all the hyperlinks set up between the Rails site and the Drupal site. I'm not sure what else requires explanation at this time, so please ask away... Brendan -- Brendan Morley President, CommonMap Inc. morb...@commonmap.info http://commonmap.info/ Queensland Incorporated Association 37762 -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Are there any other projects in a similar fork situation? (Slightly OT)
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Hi With the various forks that could/are taking place within OSM I'm curious if there are any other examples? If so, what were their outcomes? Did any re-converge? OSM is a somewhat unique in that it's not a software project. In that way it's more like Wikipedia. At the same time, we have a larger ecosystem of software than Wikipedia, and we have more groups using our stack (including our data) externally than Wikipedia. There are many reasons projects fork, and you can do searching on forks and their success. In general the reason a project forks is that the original project has stagnated and the current maintainers are unresponsive. Or (as we're seeing now with many of the Sun projects), the original maintainer is no longer going to put resources toward the project. Occasionally you see projects fork for personal reasons, often a mix of personality conflict combined with some technical decision. Here are some famous forks, and how I think they did over time: EGCS and PGCC There was a time when GCC development had become slow. During this time, two new compilers were developed as forks to merge several experimental features back in. The most well known compiler collection was EGCS. The GNU project eventually decided that ECGS was doing a better job at handling the process, and ECGS was merged back into GCC. This is a very purposeful fork, where the developers all shared the hope that it would be merged back in, and and it was. OpenBSD OpenBSD originated as a fork of NetBSD in 1995, mostly due to (rumored) personality clashes with Theo de Rault and the other NetBSD developers. OpenBSD is a very successful project overall, but then again, so is NetBSD. I'd argue OpenBSD has been successful, but illustrative of one commonality most forks have- which is that the original project doesn't stop, and has a life of its own. XEmacs In the mid 90s a company called Lucid decided to develop a set of tools to make Emacs easier to use for specialized editing applications. The result was Lucid Emacs. GNU Emacs was still being maintained at the time, and the fork was largely without notifying the larger Emacs community, so what was left after Lucid folded was a large amount of high quality code. This became the basis of XEmacs, a fork of GNU Emacs. There was an attempt at merging XEmacs back into GNU Emacs. The reason the code couldn't be merged back is that the GNU project has very strict requirements for code contributions. In order to provide ongoing legal protection services and facilitate things like GPL migration, it requires all official GNU code to be signed over to the FSF. XEmacs had dubious copyright issues. Some of the code was written by Lucid (and thus owned by the company who bought the IP rights), some by individual contributors, who were hard to find, and some by companies. After all was said and done, the FSF said that while the license was okay, the copyright assignment never could be, and was forced not to accept the changes back. This meant there were two emacsen. XEmacs was superior for a long time. The code was better and it was more featureful. But now GNU Emacs has caught up on all the features it cares about, and has exceeded XEmacs in terms of features. Both communities seem to view the fork as a problem for the community, spitting development efforts, and resulting in incompatible Elisp code. It took more than a decade for the original project to regain its prominence. Citizendium Most people may not even be aware that there's a competitor to Wikipedia called Citizendium. Citizendium started off as a fork, based on the idea that Wikipedia was unreliable and required experts to certify the information was correct. Citizendium decided before its launch that it couldn't fork WIkipedia for the reasons above, and started from scratch. During this time, its backers would speak to academics and others about why their project was superior, arguing in favor of greater reliability and control by knowledgeable officials. My opinion on Citizendium is that even despite getting backing from old school academics that the project hasn't really succeeded. Most people haven't even heard of it, and despite its self imposed editorial process, people go to Wikipedia more. Now my opinion of any potential OpenStreetMap fork. I think such a project would fail, and here are my reasons why: 1) OSM is in a growth phase Most forks are triggered by a stagnation in the development process and that's not happening with OSM. OSM is still in its exponential growth phase. We have more users and developers than we've ever had before. 2) The forkers don't agree on the reason to fork The forkers don't seem to agree on why they want to fork. Some want to fork because they want the database to remain CC-BY-SA. Others want a whole new map that's (effectively) public domain (whether that's CC0 or CC-BY, or something else),
Re: [OSM-talk] Are there any other projects in a similar fork situation? (Slightly OT)
On 2 October 2010 12:04, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: In general the reason a project forks is that the original project has stagnated and the current maintainers are unresponsive. Or (as we're seeing now with many of the Sun projects), the original maintainer is no longer going to put resources toward the project. Occasionally you see projects fork for personal reasons, often a mix of personality conflict combined with some technical decision. They also tend to fork due to licensing. 4) No fork is offering any compelling reason to use it over OSM You make some fairly shallow assumptions. CommonMap (CC-by) is operating under a similar premise as the USGS (CC0/PD) the main/only difference being they wish to be able to interact with other government departments but the different countries (AU v US) require different licenses. As for any CC-by-SA fork, there is already a large database of data that won't have to have data removed, and there is also other resources that is only also available under cc-by-sa licensing. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Are there any other projects in a similar fork situation? (Slightly OT)
Hi Serge, On 2/10/2010 12:04 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Now my opinion of any potential OpenStreetMap fork. I think such a project would fail, and here are my reasons why: If failure is the opposite of success, what are your criteria for success? 2) The forkers don't agree on the reason to fork True. Others want a whole new map that's (effectively) public domain (whether that's CC0 or CC-BY, or something else) Yes. If you believe strongly in public domain geodata, you won't find BY-SA acceptable, Is this really the case? I actually investigated the use of public domain principles - however Australian copyright law does not allow it. The best we can do is a CC BY with zero attribution. If there's anyone out there who can let me know why zero attribution is not a good enough substitute for public domain, I'd like to get in contact with you. 3) OSM has external organizational support OSM now has organizational, government and commercial support. That's something none of the forks will have. I beg to differ. CommonMap (the CC BY of which you write) definitely has Australian Government interest. CC BY-SA suffers from a flaw that government cannot take back anything from the community. And any support given by government (from what I've seen) applies equally to CC BY repositories as well. I haven't seen anything from the forkers that gives the average user a compelling reason to switch. The average contributor doesn't care about whether the license is CC-BY-SA or ODbL. And since OSM has the mindshare, developer mindshare and financial resources backing it, it's likely to remain ahead. Again, all depends on your criteria for success. Just having a one stop shop for public sector geodata would be achievement enough from a personal perspective. The ability for all the local knowledge to be fed back to government is certainly icing on the cake. Thanks, Brendan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Fwd: CommonMap Mediawiki and Drupal sites
The following may be of interest to: * Those who wish to contribute to CommonMap in future (i.e. adventures in non-Sharealike mapping) * Tracking how well a Drupal site integrates with an OSM-like Rails website * Those who also have experience in Drupal sysadmin Thanks, Brendan Original Message Subject:CommonMap Mediawiki and Drupal sites Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 11:20:30 +1000 From: Brendan Morley morb...@commonmap.info Organisation: CommonMap Inc To: frie...@commonmap.info, osm-f...@googlegroups.com Friends of CommonMap and OSM fork group, As you may know I have a Mediawiki site up at http://www.commonmap.info/ and an evaluation Drupal site up at http://demo.commonmap.org/drupal/ I think the Drupal site is good enough to fork into the flagship position at http://www.commonmap.info/ And I would like to move the current inhabitant of http://www.commonmap.info/ to something like http://old.commonmap.info/ I would like to do this in the next few days. However as a sanity check I'd like to check in with the community, see if you can see a flaw in my plan. So, a little bit of background behind my motivation: The intent of evaluating the Drupal software was to determine if it could take over the wiki role, as well as the user diary, issue tracking, etc. In OSM this is either covered by bespoke software (User Diaries) or spread over several point solutions. In contrast, Drupal brings the User diary (or in Drupal terms, per user blogs) function into a larger community of developers. Wrapping in the other functions (like issue tracking) should allow for much richer hyperlinking within the CommonMap community. Other nice things that Drupal gives us: * ReCAPTCHA spam deterrents * Larger development community generally * Filter by communities of interest (Professional vs Amateur, by region, etc) * Event posting and reminders * Forum * User profiles and friending I can post the full list of Drupal modules I intend to enable, if anyone is interested. Generally the intent is to let OSM's rails code only handle the stuff that unique to OSM-style projects (e.g. the REST API, and the metadata browsing pages like http://www.demo.commonmap.org/browse/changeset/113) - and let Drupal do the things that can benefit from a wider development community. As for timing, well I really would like to launch this CommonMap thing much more publicly and a big remaining part of that is getting all the hyperlinks set up between the Rails site and the Drupal site. I'm not sure what else requires explanation at this time, so please ask away... Brendan -- Brendan Morley President, CommonMap Inc. morb...@commonmap.info http://commonmap.info/ Queensland Incorporated Association 37762 -- ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser
Hallo Jan, - Wiki-Link auf die Karte (Brunnen, Trinkwasser, Pferdetränke, ...) Uff, da ist alles Englisch... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fountain http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=drinking_water http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural=spring http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:drinkable http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made=water_well http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Watering_place ... Und irgendwie scheint mir das alles nicht so ganz durchdacht... wie bei so manchen Schon die Definition ist schwammig. WP sagt: Ein Brunnen ist ein Bauwerk zur Wassergewinnung aus einem Grundwasserleiter. Aber was ist mit Brunnen, die nicht der Wassergewinnung, sondern der Zierde dienen und ihr Wasser einfach im Kreis rumpumpen (geschlossener Kreislauf mit eigenem Filtersystem, oder aus dem See in den See zur Belüftung)? Also wenn ich mal etwas systematischer übr Brunnen nachdenke, dann finde ich verschiedene Klassen von Eigenschaften, die unterschieden werden können: - wo kommt das Wasser her (Leitungsnetz, Grundwasser, ...) - wie wird der Brunnen betrieben (Widder, Ziehbrunnen, Druckwasser, Förderpumpe, Zuleitung auf Bach/Quelle, ...) - wie ist die Wasserqualität (Kalk, PH, Mineralien, Schadstoffe, ...) - wozu dient/diente der Brunnen (Viehtränke, Trinkwasserzapfstelle, - welche Bedeutung hat der Brunen (künstlerisch, historisch, wirtschaftlich, ...) - gibt es ein Wasserspiel (Springbeunnen, Fontäne, Kaskade, ...) - gibt es ein Auffangbecken? wie ist es beschaffen (Brunnentrog, Hundebecken, Flachwasserbecken, ...) - ... Jetzt müssten wir nur noch herausfinden, welche wir für OSM auch unterscheiden möchten... Weiterführende Links: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fountain http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Brunnen_nach_Standort Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Zierbrunnenwasser nicht trinkbar
Am 30.09.2010 23:35, schrieb Ulf Möller: Am 30.09.2010 10:09, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: ich habe die Karte noch einwenig erweitert. Mehr möchte ich derzeit nicht hinzufügen. Gefällt mir. Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. bitte immer mit icon-vorschlag soetwas künftig - hier ist das noch einfach. Ein Problem gibt es anscheinend noch: Quellen kann man zwar auswählen, aber zumindest diese hier wird nicht angezeigt: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=48.15602lon=11.61266layers=B00TTTF muss ich prüfen. gruß Jan .-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Friedhofsbrunnen
Am 01.10.2010 00:50, schrieb Wolfgang: Hallo, Am Donnerstag 30 September 2010 23:35:30 schrieb Ulf Möller: Am 30.09.2010 10:09, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: ich habe die Karte noch einwenig erweitert. Mehr möchte ich derzeit nicht hinzufügen. Gefällt mir. Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. Ein Problem gibt es anscheinend noch: Quellen kann man zwar auswählen, aber zumindest diese hier wird nicht angezeigt: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=48.156 02lon=11.61266layers=B00TTTF Hier noch ein paar schöne Beispielle. Das Schöpfbecken (amenity=basin?) wird noch nicht angezeigt. http://fredriks.de/Ohlsdorf/Brunnen_4.htm Der 5. von oben ist sehr häufig. Gruß, Wolfgang Hi ! dann müßten wir auch die Friedhofsbrunnen cemetery=water mit aufnehmen. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Berlin/Summer_Mapping_2008/Tags (Weitere Details auf dem Friedhof) lasse ich erst diese erst einmal weg - Icons Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
Sorry, ich schon wieder hier in der Gegend hab ich einige Hinweise auf Fehler gefunden: tunnel? bridge? es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... dann hätte ich noch was was nach dem Wiki ein Tunnel sein könnte, aber sehr kurz (Form wie ein Tunnel) aber hoher als breit und lang. Grüße aus der Eifel Steffen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
Am 01.10.2010 09:22, schrieb Steffen Heinz: es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... Eindeutig ein Wasser-Tunnel ^^ Lg, Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
Am 01.10.2010 09:22, schrieb Steffen Heinz: Sorry, ich schon wieder hier in der Gegend hab ich einige Hinweise auf Fehler gefunden: tunnel? bridge? es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... dann hätte ich noch was was nach dem Wiki ein Tunnel sein könnte, aber sehr kurz (Form wie ein Tunnel) aber hoher als breit und lang. Für den Bach ist es ein Tunnel. für den Strassenverkehr eine Brücke da es gegebenfalls eine Gewichtsbeschränkung geben kann, was durch den Tunnel nicht deutlich werden würde. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Thema des Monats - September 2010 - Tankstellen - Zusammenfassung
HI ! der Monat ist um und eine Auswertung der Tags findet Ihr unter http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Project_of_the_month/2010/september#Statistik Somit sind 577 Tankstellen hinzugekommen (einige werden sicherlich wegen doppelter Objekte gelöscht worden sein) und 920 wurden in dem Zeitraum bearbeitet. Alles in allem wohl ein guter Erfolg. Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... dann hätte ich noch was was nach dem Wiki ein Tunnel sein könnte, aber sehr kurz (Form wie ein Tunnel) aber hoher als breit und lang. Für den Bach ist es ein Tunnel. für den Strassenverkehr eine Brücke da es gegebenfalls mmm dann wären die wassertunnel in Aachen kilometerlang, weil alle Bäche verrohrt sind? auch hier gibt es lange Wassertunnel also sinnvoll un logisch finde ich die Bezeichnung nicht, vor allem wenn die Tunnel Dackelgröße haben ;) Grüße aus der Eifel Steffen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser
On 01.10.2010 01:23, Wolfgang wrote: Hallo, Am Freitag 01 Oktober 2010 00:35:53 schrieb Peter Wendorff: On 30.09.2010 20:10, Karl Eichwalder wrote: Wolfgangwolfg...@ivkasogis.de writes: das würde ich nicht so eng sehen. Die Mehrheit der Mapper sind Nicht- Engländer. Amerikaner sind auch Muttersprachler, sehen aber vieles ganz anders/lockerer. Die überwältigende Mehrheit der Welt sind keine Muttersprachler und sprechen englisch nur als Verständigungssprache. Es reicht aus, wenn für alle erkennbar ist, was damit gemeint ist. Das ist genau der grund, weshalb man einfaches, aber korrektes (US-)Englisch wählen sollte. Kleine Korrektur: OSM kommt aus England und wenn Du die talk-Liste mal durchguckst: da wird eher stark auf BRITISCH Englisch gepocht. Es ist aber kein englisches, sondern internationales Projekt. Außer der Foundation sind die Engländer nur noch ein paar Mapper unter vielen, vielen anderen Das ist richtig, aber kein Argument gegen britisches Englisch oder für Amerikanisches. Einige Links aus dem Wiki dazu: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki_guidelines Q: Do we use British English or American English to the general pages? I suggest British English for general English Pages, the appropriate 'local' English for place pages. PeterIto http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:PeterIto 08:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Dyke Generally speaking, the lingua franca of OSM tagging is British English, so this should be dyke. --Richard http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Richard 08:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC) Auch in den Mailinglisten findet sich immer wieder was dazu - meiner Erinnerung nach immer nur Richtung British English; eine Gegenrede ist mir nie aufgefallen (außer bei Tag-Änderungen wie curb-kerb, die aber aus technischen Gründen abgelehnt wurden) Gruß Peter Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Zierbrunnenwasser nicht trinkbar
Am 01.10.2010 09:14, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Am 30.09.2010 23:35, schrieb Ulf Möller: Am 30.09.2010 10:09, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: ich habe die Karte noch einwenig erweitert. Mehr möchte ich derzeit nicht hinzufügen. Gefällt mir. Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. bitte immer mit icon-vorschlag soetwas künftig - hier ist das noch einfach. Ein Problem gibt es anscheinend noch: Quellen kann man zwar auswählen, aber zumindest diese hier wird nicht angezeigt: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=48.15602lon=11.61266layers=B00TTTF muss ich prüfen. gruß Jan .-) dauert noch etwas mit der unterscheidung - muss da noch etwas in meinem Tool testen ... Gruß jan .-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - Quellen
Am 30.09.2010 23:35, schrieb Ulf Möller: Am 30.09.2010 10:09, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: ich habe die Karte noch einwenig erweitert. Mehr möchte ich derzeit nicht hinzufügen. Gefällt mir. Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. Ein Problem gibt es anscheinend noch: Quellen kann man zwar auswählen, aber zumindest diese hier wird nicht angezeigt: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=48.15602lon=11.61266layers=B00TTTF Hi ! das kommt daher das ich amenity=spring ausgewertet habe ! Ist falsch und ändere ich gleich. Vielleicht kannst Du nochmal folgende nodes durchsehen - die sind alle als amenity=spring definiert. 323808078 322046908 886352660 436640946 846636214 849899819 822570781 Gruß jan .-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
moin, Garry schrieb: Am 01.10.2010 09:22, schrieb Steffen Heinz: es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... Für den Bach ist es ein Tunnel. für den Strassenverkehr eine Brücke da es gegebenfalls eine Gewichtsbeschränkung geben kann, was durch den Tunnel nicht deutlich werden würde. es kann vorkommen, das für die Straße eine Gewichtsbeschränkung gilt - aber deswegen ist es doch noch keine Brücke. (Davon ausgehend, dass es sich tatsächlich um eine Röhre handelt, es also keine tatsächliche Brückenkonstruktion gibt.) Die Gewichtsbeschränkung kann man ja genauso an den betroffenen Straßenabschnitt taggen. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
Am 01.10.2010 10:02, schrieb Steffen Heinz: Für den Bach ist es ein Tunnel. für den Strassenverkehr eine Brücke da es gegebenfalls dann wären die wassertunnel in Aachen kilometerlang, weil alle Bäche verrohrt sind? auch hier gibt es lange Wassertunnel also sinnvoll un logisch finde ich die Bezeichnung nicht, vor allem wenn die Tunnel Dackelgröße haben ;) Das passt schon. Ein Tunnel ist ein Tunnel, selbst wenn er Dackelgröße hat. Du kannst ja ein tunnel:diameter=0.5 dran pappen. ;-) Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tunnel%3Dculvert ich hab sie immer nur als tunnel gekennzeichnet. bruecken nehme ich immer nur wenn es Gelaender oder etwas anderes an der oberflaeuche zu sehen gibt Steffen Heinz wrote: Sorry, ich schon wieder hier in der Gegend hab ich einige Hinweise auf Fehler gefunden: tunnel? bridge? es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... dann hätte ich noch was was nach dem Wiki ein Tunnel sein könnte, aber sehr kurz (Form wie ein Tunnel) aber hoher als breit und lang. Grüße aus der Eifel Steffen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tunnel? bridge?
PS und in deutsch am unteren seitenende http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:waterway Steffen Heinz wrote: Sorry, ich schon wieder hier in der Gegend hab ich einige Hinweise auf Fehler gefunden: tunnel? bridge? es handelt sich hier um einen Bach der durch einen röhre geführt wird um die Straße zu unterqueren... dann hätte ich noch was was nach dem Wiki ein Tunnel sein könnte, aber sehr kurz (Form wie ein Tunnel) aber hoher als breit und lang. Grüße aus der Eifel Steffen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Friedhofsbrunnen
Hallo, Am Freitag 01 Oktober 2010 09:20:38 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Am 01.10.2010 00:50, schrieb Wolfgang: Hallo, Hier noch ein paar schöne Beispielle. Das Schöpfbecken (amenity=basin?) wird noch nicht angezeigt. http://fredriks.de/Ohlsdorf/Brunnen_4.htm Der 5. von oben ist sehr häufig. Gruß, Wolfgang Hi ! dann müßten wir auch die Friedhofsbrunnen cemetery=water mit aufnehmen. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Berlin/Summer_Mapping_2008/Tags (Weitere Details auf dem Friedhof) Gefällt mir nicht so gut. Für die normalen Wasserhähne kann man amenity=drinking_water nehnen. Es fehlt noch ein tag für die Schöpfbecken. Ich halte es nicht für richtig, das an den Friedhof zu tackern. Solche Schöpfbecken kann es auch woanders geben. Ähnlich dazu die in Bayern häufiger zu sehenden Wasserrinnen, oft als ausgehöhlter Baumstamm. Im Gegensatz zu (Zier-)Brunnen steht hier die Nutzung des Wassers zum Trinken direkt aus dem Zulauf und zum Waschen/Kühlen etc aus der Rinne/dem Trog im Vordergrund. lasse ich erst diese erst einmal weg - Icons kommt Zeit, kommt Icon Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Darstellung von shops in OSM
auch ein danke von mir, gerade erfreut in der karte festgestellt und dann auch erinnert das ich was von shops dartstellen ueber die liste huschen sah. Fischfachhandel waere das naechste was mir einfiele ;-) shop=seafood fuer shop=greengrocer ist das logo IMHO nicht so einfach aber waere das padon fuer die vegetarier denen die anderen sachen nichts bringen. Thomas wrote: Wer auch immer dafür verantwortlich ist, dass nun auch die Metzgereien in der Mapnik-Slippy-Map dargestellt werden: Danke! Thomas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Quelle
Hallo Jan, könntest Du auf der Karte zusätzlich zu den Quellen noch die Flüsse/Bäche hervorheben? Dann könnte man gleich sehen, wo noch eine Quelle fehlt. Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Inseln in Multipolygonen als natural=water getaggt?
Hallo, ich wundere mich gerade darüber, dass im Berliner Tiergarten eine Menge Inseln in dem See namens Neuer See [2] liegen nicht wie im Wiki angedacht mit natural=land [1] getaggt sind, sondern als natural=water (was ja offensichtlich falsch ist ...). Das sind ways mit role=inner. Ist das extra? Ich male die nämlich aufgrund ihres natural=water tags falsch ... Was mich vorallem wundert ist, dass Osmarender und Mapnik es korrekt rendern ... Ist das ein Fehler, oder muss ich das einfach via Spezialfall abhandeln? Mir kommt es ehrlich gesagt schlicht falsch vor. Schließlich ist dort kein Wasser sondern eine Insel, was m.M.n. zu einem Tag place=islet oder natural=land führen muss! Danke Tom [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dland [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.51173lon=13.34079zoom=17layers=M ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Quelle
Am 01.10.2010 12:18, schrieb Markus: Hallo Jan, könntest Du auf der Karte zusätzlich zu den Quellen noch die Flüsse/Bäche hervorheben? Dann könnte man gleich sehen, wo noch eine Quelle fehlt. Gruss, Markus Hallo Markus, ich glaube das würde die Sache überladen und ich bezweifel das die überhaupt so vollständig sind. Etwas vergleichbares hatte ich schon einmal für Haiti gemacht - aber da waren das vermutlich wesentlich weniger Elemente. Das Problem ist auch das sich POI's einfacher in einem Bereich nur anzeigen lassen. Bei den Ways würde ich GPX-Dateien erzeugen und alle einblenden lassen. Vielleicht hat jemand anderes aber eine ganz andere Idee ! Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Am 30.09.2010 23:35, schrieb Ulf Möller: Am 30.09.2010 10:09, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: ich habe die Karte noch einwenig erweitert. Mehr möchte ich derzeit nicht hinzufügen. Gefällt mir. Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. Ein Problem gibt es anscheinend noch: Quellen kann man zwar auswählen, aber zumindest diese hier wird nicht angezeigt: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=48.15602lon=11.61266layers=B00TTTF Hallo Ulf, der ist jetzt da ! gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Inseln in Multipolygonen als natural=water getaggt?
Am 1. Oktober 2010 12:20 schrieb Tom Müller tomsmuel...@gmx.net: Hallo, ich wundere mich gerade darüber, dass im Berliner Tiergarten eine Menge Inseln in dem See namens Neuer See [2] liegen nicht wie im Wiki angedacht mit natural=land [1] getaggt sind, sondern als natural=water (was ja offensichtlich falsch ist ...) ja, ist falsch. Eigentlich reicht es, die gar nicht besonders zu taggen, wenn sie als inner im MP sind. Was mich vorallem wundert ist, dass Osmarender und Mapnik es korrekt rendern egal Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Darstellung von shops in OSM
Offenbar wurden nicht nur Metzgereien aufgenommen. Auch ein Fahrradladen und eine Autowerkstatt sind mir ins Auge gefallen. BBO ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Darstellung von shops in OSM
stimmt irgendwas sah heute auch anders aus in meier heimtaregion auf der karte. es sind auch folgende dazu gekommen. langsam braucht man ne zoomstufe mehr ;-) +shop=department_store +shop=clothes BBO wrote: Offenbar wurden nicht nur Metzgereien aufgenommen. Auch ein Fahrradladen und eine Autowerkstatt sind mir ins Auge gefallen. BBO ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
On 30-9-2010 23:35, Ulf Möller wrote: Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. Besser ist potable=yes für Trinkwasser. -- Lennard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Olivenbäume
Hallo M∡rtin, wenn es extensiv ist: ist das sowas wie Streuobstwiesen? Auf Streuobstwiesen findet (oft) ein Doppelnutzung statt: Obst und Wiese/Streu. Es kommt nur selten zu einem Kronenschluss, so dass ausreichend Licht für Gräser und Kräuter vorhanden sind - zudem findet Mahd oder Beweidung statt. Dadurch dominieren Gräser - sonst eher Stauden. Bei Oliven findet aus klimatischen Gründen meist keine Wiesennutzung statt; aus selbigem Grund sind sie auch oft weitständiger, ohne Kronenschluss. In der Krautschicht kommen neben Gräsern auch viele Zwiebel- und Knollenpflanzen vor. Vom Charakter und bioökol. Potential sind sie mit mitteleuropäischen Streuobstwiesen vergleichbar. Vom Ansatz her werden sie oft krautfrei angelegt, gegrubbt, um die Verdunstung durch Brechung der Kapillarität zu verringern. Durch Wurzelreste, Knollen ... verkrauten sie nach ca. 1/2 Jahr wieder. Es gibt aber auch intensiv bewirtschaftete, bewässerte, engständige, niedrige Oliven-Plantagen. (Aber auch bei alten Olivenhainen ist ein Trend zur Bewässerung festzustellen) Unterscheiden würde ich zwischen größeren, intensiven, engständigen, auf ein Erzeugnis ausgerichtete Flächen landuse:plantage trees:olive_grove landuse:plantage trees:orange_trees und kleineren extensiven, überwiegend weitständig bestockten, artenreicheren Parzellen. landuse=orchard trees=apple_trees landuse=orchard trees=olive_grove m.E. sollte man da subtaggen, besser wäre evtl. landuse=farmland farmland=field/orchard etc. Ja. Aber das wird vielen mit Früchten wohl ein tag zuviel ... ;) landuse=orchard ist in der wiki nicht klar: landwirtschaftliche Fläche für Obst- und Gemüseplantagen. Letzteres passt m.E. nicht. Unter Gemüsen finden sich doch keine holzigen Pflanzen? Bei einer Nutzung würde ich, mit Blick auf Orientierung in der Landschaft, wie gesagt, zwischen Feldfrüchten (Gemüse, Getreide, ...), holzigen mehrjährigen Sachen (Heidelbeeren, Äpfel,...), Forst und langfristig nichtgenutzten Flächen Brachen (Gebüsch) unterscheiden; letztere dienen manchmal zur Brennholzgewinnung oder Abgrenzung zu Nachbarn / anderen Nutzungen. ... Megamultipolygon ... man sollte sich nicht scheuen, in solche reinzutaggen, wenn man Detaillierteres weiß. Vielleicht kann man, wenn man ein kleines Feld beizutragen hat, einfach einen Layer rüberlegen? Normalerweise aber dem Multipol. zuordnen. Die sollten nicht zu groß sein, sind eine Art Notlösung und Anreiz zugleich, beschreiben den überwiegenden Aspekt - das ist meist auch bodenabhängig. viele Grüße, minze ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Inseln in Multipolygonen als natural=water getaggt?
Am 01.10.2010 12:20, schrieb Tom Müller: ich wundere mich gerade darüber, dass im Berliner Tiergarten eine Menge Inseln in dem See namens Neuer See [2] liegen nicht wie im Wiki angedacht mit natural=land [1] getaggt sind, sondern als natural=water (was ja offensichtlich falsch ist ...). Das sind ways mit role=inner. Ist das extra? Ich male die nämlich aufgrund ihres natural=water tags falsch ... Die sind dann eventuell noch nach der alten Multipolygon-Methode getaggt, damals wurden die Tags sowohl an die outer- als auch die inner- Ways geklebt. Wird aus Kombatibilitätsgründen noch heute von den Renderern unterstützt. (Was dann wiederum andere Probleme verursacht, siehe Laubwald innerhalb Mischwald). Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Am Freitag, den 01.10.2010, 13:09 +0200 schrieb Lennard: Es wäre gut, wenn Zierbrunnen mit drinkable=yes anders angezeigt würden als die ohne Trinkwasser. Besser ist potable=yes für Trinkwasser. Also [1] kennt beides. Ich bin kein Muttersprachler, d.h. die evtl. voneinander abweichende Bedeutungen sind mir nicht bewußt. Kannst du erklären, warum potable besser ist? Gruß, Markus [1] http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=trinkbar ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
On 1-10-2010 13:23, olvagor wrote: Besser ist potable=yes für Trinkwasser. Also [1] kennt beides. Ich bin kein Muttersprachler, d.h. die evtl. voneinander abweichende Bedeutungen sind mir nicht bewußt. Kannst du erklären, warum potable besser ist? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drinkable suitable for drinking, zum Trinken geeignet, aber auch Quecksilber ist 'drinkable' ;-) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/potable fit or suitable for drinking: potable water., d.h. es ist auch *geeignet* zum Trinken. Potable wird oft benutzt für Trinkwasser. Nur meiner Meinung. -- Lennard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Am Freitag, den 01.10.2010, 13:42 +0200 schrieb Lennard: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drinkable suitable for drinking, zum Trinken geeignet, aber auch Quecksilber ist 'drinkable' ;-) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/potable fit or suitable for drinking: potable water., d.h. es ist auch *geeignet* zum Trinken. Potable wird oft benutzt für Trinkwasser. Hm hm... klingt für mich synonym. Ich glaube, solang es unter den Muttersprachlern nicht zu nem Aufstand kommt, bleib ich beim bislang etablierten drinkable. Gruß, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Quelle
Hallo Jan, könntest Du auf der Karte zusätzlich zu den Quellen noch die Flüsse/Bäche hervorheben? Dann könnte man gleich sehen, wo noch eine Quelle fehlt. ich bezweifel dass die vollständig sind. Eben drum - dann können wir sie vervollständigen :-) Wie attributiert man einen See als Quelle? natural=water + natural=spring funktioniert nicht: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=49.63082lon=11.36104layers=B00TFFFTFFF Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Hallo, Am Freitag 01 Oktober 2010 14:55:09 schrieb olvagor: Am Freitag, den 01.10.2010, 13:42 +0200 schrieb Lennard: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drinkable suitable for drinking, zum Trinken geeignet, aber auch Quecksilber ist 'drinkable' ;-) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/potable fit or suitable for drinking: potable water., d.h. es ist auch *geeignet* zum Trinken. Potable wird oft benutzt für Trinkwasser. Hm hm... klingt für mich synonym. Ich glaube, solang es unter den Muttersprachlern nicht zu nem Aufstand kommt, bleib ich beim bislang etablierten drinkable. die wissen es auch nicht: http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewGeneraldiscussion.php?idThread=257175idForum=4lp=endelang=de Meine Meinung zu dem ganzen Aufwand, die tags very british aussehen zu lassen, kennt ihr Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Quelle
On 01.10.2010 15:27, Markus wrote: Wie attributiert man einen See als Quelle? natural=water + natural=spring funktioniert nicht: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=49.63082lon=11.36104layers=B00TFFFTFFF Ich würde in den See einen Node für die Quelle setzen, bei Bedarf mehrere. Der See ist meines Erachtens nicht selbst die Quelle. Außerdem können mehrere Quellen in einem See Quellen eines Flusses sein. Wenn die Quellposition selbst nicht bekannt ist, sollte das als FIXME mit dran. Gruß Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Trinkwasser - Quelle
Hallo Peter, natural=water + natural=spring funktioniert nicht: http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1027zoom=18lat=49.63082lon=11.36104layers=B00TFFFTFFF Ich würde in den See einen Node für die Quelle setzen können mehrere Quellen in einem See Quellen eines Flusses sein Theoretisch ja. Praktisch gibt mein GPS diese Genauigkeit nicht her: der See hat einen Durchmesser von 10 m. Und da der Bach ja aus dem See fliesst, hätte er auch keine Verbindung zur Quelle? Andererseits: man könnte bei jedem See vom speisenden Fluss einen Waterway zum abfliessenden Fluss zeichnen, nach hydrodynamischen Gesichtspunkten? (ich kenne Karten wo das so gemacht wird) Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser
-Urspr. Nachricht- Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser Von: Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de Datum: 01.10.2010 10 (außer bei Tag-Änderungen wie curb-kerb, die aber aus technischen Gründen abgelehnt wurden. Ja? Wann war das? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser
Sorry, falsche Erinnerung: abgelehnt wurde das nicht (Martin, Du hattest es ja selbst angesprochen), auf die Nachricht kam keine Reaktion. Die Nachricht selbst war am 22.09.2010, und du argumentiertest, BE sei Standard in OSM, deshalb solle man das ändern. Die Nicht-Reaktion habe ich in meiner Erinnerung wohl so interpretiert: - niemand ist gegen die Aussage, British English sei Richtlinie für Tagnamen - Die Änderung des Tags selbst ist für die meisten zumindest nicht so erstrebenswert, dass eine Antwort darauf dem zustimmt Gruß Peter On 01.10.2010 17:38, Martin Koppenhöfer wrote: -Urspr. Nachricht- Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser Von: Peter Wendorffwendo...@uni-paderborn.de Datum: 01.10.2010 10 (außer bei Tag-Änderungen wie curb-kerb, die aber aus technischen Gründen abgelehnt wurden. Ja? Wann war das? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] PotM - Tag für Wasserzapfstellen im K leingarten, Friedhof
Hi ! jetzt muss ich mich auch nochmal in die Tag-Diskussion einschalten obwohl ich es nicht wollte. Wasserzapfstellen auf Kleingartengeländen (Handpumpe oder Becker oder Wasserhahn) und Friefhöfen wie würdet Ihr diese betrachten ?? gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Umwandlung von Einheiten
Numbers within countries that do not use SI units, such as maxspeed=30 mph (miles per hours) may use the local system for all entries of this country, including the unit name (mph, ft, ...). This will be converted to km/h or m. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SI_units stimmt das so wirklich? Es ist so dokumentiert, wird so getaggt, und sollte von einer Anwendung entsprechend interpretiert werden. Welche Anwendungen das auch tatsächlich so handhaben ... weiß ich nicht. Ah, ich glaube ich war einem Missverstaendnis unterlegen: This will be converted to km/h or m. meint Conversion should be done by the renderer. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:SI_units#capable_of_being_misunderstood -- Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] PotM - Tag für Tiefwasserbrunnen der Wasserversorgungsunternehmen
Am 01.10.2010 18:18, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Hi ! jetzt muss ich mich auch nochmal in die Tag-Diskussion einschalten obwohl ich es nicht wollte. Wasserzapfstellen auf Kleingartengeländen (Handpumpe oder Becker oder Wasserhahn) und Friefhöfen wie würdet Ihr diese betrachten ?? gruß Jan :-) ... ach ja und die Wasserbrunnen der Wasserversorgungsbetriebe wie händelt Ihr die ?? gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Hindernisbreiten vs Wegbreiten
Ich will demnächst mal im Zentrum die Breiten für Fußgänger etwas besser mappen. Dabei würde ich gerne die Breite von Gehsteigen wo sie eingeschränkt ist taggen. M.E. am besten mit width (maxwidth ist ja eine legale Beschränkung), und da ich die Fußwege vermutlich nicht explizit zeichnen werde, würde ich irgend sowas wie highway:footway:left:width=x benutzen. Oder highway:footway:right:barrier=cycle_barrier. Man müsste dann allerdings jeweils den Hauptweg teilen, oder Punkte einfügen für Barrieren. Vielleicht probiere ich auch mal die Area-Relation aus. Macht jemand schon sowas, und welche tags habt ihr da im Einsatz? Ein anderes Problem, das sich dabei stellt: wie ist die Durchgangsbreite zu taggen? Es gab da mal eine Diskusssion, wie man physische Breiten taggen sollte, aber wenn ich nun einen width-tag auf einen Highwayknoten, der eine Barrier ist, lege, ist das dann die Durchgangsbreite oder die Breite des Hindernisses? Und wie taggt man das jeweils andere? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Hinweis auf gps-tech...@lists.openstreetmap.de
Hallo, in talk-de werden sehr viele GPS-Technikfragen diskutiert, die eigentlich in gps-tech...@lists.openstreetmap.de besser aufgehoben waeren. Dort lesen schon viele GPS-Fachleute und warten auf Fragen, die in talk-de untergehen. Ich moechte daher nochmal diese Liste bewerben, schoenes Wochenende, -- Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV - Erfassen von Tarifzonen
hier in Berlin wurde das öffentliche Verkehrsnetz in mehreren ringförmige Tarifzonen eingeteilt. In anderen Metropolen wird es wohl ähnlich sein. Hat hier jemand diese Zonen schon mal in OSM erfasst und wenn ja, wie macht man das am besten ? Wozu? Ziel soll sicher sein, eine guenstige Strecke zu ermitteln. Das wuerde ich eher extern speichern / auswerten. In meiner Region sind die Tarifzonen sehr komplex und wechseln regelmaessig. Es gibt, wie schon jemand geschrieben hat Haltestellen, die in mehreren Zonen gleichzeitig sind. Die Zonen sind keine geografische Erscheinung, sondern ein Verkaufskonzept eines Unternehmens. So wie ich das verstanden habe, wird die ÖPNV-Karte aber Schnittstellen bereitstellen, OSM mit Fahrplaninformationen zu vereinen. Beste Gruesse, -- Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de GPS Fragen? gps-tech...@lists.openstreetmap.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hindernisbreiten vs Wegbreiten
Hallo Martin On 01.10.2010 20:25, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Ich will demnächst mal im Zentrum die Breiten für Fußgänger etwas besser mappen. Dabei würde ich gerne die Breite von Gehsteigen wo sie eingeschränkt ist taggen. M.E. am besten mit width (maxwidth ist ja eine legale Beschränkung), und da ich die Fußwege vermutlich nicht explizit zeichnen werde, würde ich irgend sowas wie highway:footway:left:width=x benutzen. Oder highway:footway:right:barrier=cycle_barrier. ...ich weiß, warum ich mich dafür entschieden habe, die Fußwege einzeln einzuzeichnen. Wenn man das ein paarmal gemacht hat, ist das gar nicht so kompliziert, wie es erstmal aussieht. Du siehst ja selbst: es wird ziemlich kompliziert mit den Tag-Namen. Wenn Du weiterdenkst und bei Querungen ankommst (Fußgängerampeln, Zebrastreifen), die auf beiden Straßenseiten unterschiedliche Ausstattungen haben, wird das mit den Tags noch gruseliger, bzw. dann kommt sowas wie (*:)+:left an nodes Man müsste dann allerdings jeweils den Hauptweg teilen, oder Punkte einfügen für Barrieren. Vielleicht probiere ich auch mal die Area-Relation aus. Macht jemand schon sowas, und welche tags habt ihr da im Einsatz? Bürgersteige kennzeichne ich zusätzlich in Unterscheidung von anderen Fußwegen durch sidewalk=yes Ein anderes Problem, das sich dabei stellt: wie ist die Durchgangsbreite zu taggen? Es gab da mal eine Diskusssion, wie man physische Breiten taggen sollte, aber wenn ich nun einen width-tag auf einen Highwayknoten, der eine Barrier ist, lege, ist das dann die Durchgangsbreite oder die Breite des Hindernisses? Und wie taggt man das jeweils andere? width auf Knoten ist sowieso so eine Sache - hab ich bisher weggelassen. Gruß Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tolle osm-verwendung in einem museum.
Am 30.09.2010 um 11:49 schrieb Walter Nordmann: für mich wäre das picture of the month nur fehlen mir derzeit die connections dazu. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_image_proposals MfG Andi ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Olivenbäume
Am 1. Oktober 2010 13:11 schrieb minze my-email-confirmat...@online.de: wenn es extensiv ist: ist das sowas wie Streuobstwiesen? Auf Streuobstwiesen findet (oft) ein Doppelnutzung statt: Obst und Wiese/Streu. ... Es gibt aber auch intensiv bewirtschaftete, bewässerte, engständige, niedrige Oliven-Plantagen. Unterscheiden würde ich zwischen größeren, intensiven, engständigen, auf ein Erzeugnis ausgerichtete Flächen ja, ich auch landuse:plantage ich würde englische Wörter benutzen, das entsprechende Proposal ist m.E. unglücklich, d.h. plantation, falls orchard ein spezielles Wort ist, wo man Plantagen bzw. andere intensive Bewirtschaftung nicht einschliessen kann (und mit Subtags unterscheiden). Wobei man da auch überlegen kann, ob man die Haupt-Unterscheidung zw. intensiver und extensiver Landwirtschaft machen wil, oder eher zwischen Feldwirtschaft und Bäume/Büsche/Sträucher (bzw. Dauerkulturen und einjährigen). Alles flach in einer Hierarchie ist natürlich auch ne Möglichkeit, beim Auswerten aber ein bisschen mühseliger. m.E. sollte man da subtaggen, besser wäre evtl. landuse=farmland farmland=field/orchard etc. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser
-Urspr. Nachricht- Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Projekt d Von: Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de Datum: 01.10.2010 17:57 Sorry, falsche Erinnerung: abgelehnt wurde das nicht (Martin, Du hattest es ja selbst angesprochen), auf die Nachricht kam keine Reaktion. Die Nachricht selbst war am 22.09.2010, und du argumentiertest, BE sei Standard in OSM, deshalb solle man das ändern. Die Nicht-Reaktion habe ich in meiner Erinnerung wohl so interpretiert: - niemand ist gegen die Aussage, British English sei Richtlinie für Tagnamen - Die Änderung des Tags selbst ist für die meisten zumindest nicht so erstrebenswert, dass eine Antwort darauf dem zustimmt Ich denke eher, das nutzt noch keiner groß, kann man also noch problemlos a npassen Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Am 01.10.2010 13:09, schrieb Lennard: Besser ist potable=yes für Trinkwasser. Wenn das ein neues Tag wäre, hätte ich das auch gesagt. Aber es ist beides sprachlich korrekt, und ein Verhältnis von 900:7 laut Tagwatch spricht für sich. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Am 1. Oktober 2010 13:42 schrieb Lennard l...@xs4all.nl: Besser ist potable=yes für Trinkwasser. fit or suitable for drinking: potable water., d.h. es ist auch *geeignet* zum Trinken. Potable wird oft benutzt für Trinkwasser. ja, potable ist sicher üblicher in englischsprachigen Ländern, andererseits wurde seinerzeit schon amenity=potable_water in drinking_water umgetauft, weil es von vielen damals für Nichtmuttersprachler als verständlicher angesehen wurde. Ich finde daher für OSM drinkable geeigneter, unter anderem auch, weil das etablierte Pendant drinking_water ist. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projekt des Monats Oktober - Trinkwasser - weitere POI
Am 1. Oktober 2010 15:44 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de: Meine Meinung zu dem ganzen Aufwand, die tags very british aussehen zu lassen, kennt ihr auch wenn man dem Imperialismus allgemein nicht so aufgeschlossen gegenübersteht, es hat schon seine Vorteile, wenn man sich auf eine Regel einigt, welche Schreibweise man verwendet. Neben den Wörtern wie sidewalk und pavement gibt es halt auch sehr viele Curbs und Kerbs, und wenn man die je nach tag mal so und mal so schreibt, wird es noch komplizierter. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de