date:20171113

@mmd,

I have noticed that the proposed fixes were not marked with vote=1. I fixed
them.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_fixes#Proposed_fixes

I'm not sure if vote=1 is needed for the multiple-choice challenges. They
were originally copied from the officially deprecated tags, so technically
they have already been discussed by the community. Also, I would think that
the person who changes amenity=education to college/school/university has
to have the local knowledge, or find business' website and research it
there?  Either case is fine of course.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_fixes#Multiple_Choice_Challenges

Lastly - in case of a manual edit (power mode), Sophox will set
"task_id=manual" to make them easier to find.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Dropping out, was: New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione john whelan

>mostly personal attack [2],

The following is not a personal attack its a last ditch effort to get you
to think before acting or posting.  I may use terms you are not familiar
with urbandictionary.com is a good source for explanations.

You seem to take any comment by anyone who does not wholeheartedly agree
with you as a personal attack. I get the impression that English is not
your first language?  Trust me as a native English speaker there have only
been issues raised and none of Frederik's post have been personal.  I do
sense frustration in them.  I share his frustration as I get the impression
you don't understand what is being attempted to communicate.  You don't
seem to be analyzing what is being said.  You are saying words but they
might just as well be from an AI bot for all the sense they make.  Go more
formal.  Keep the sentences shorter.  Keep to one small topic at a time.

OpenStreetMap origins were people coming together as a community and
mapping.  The community aspect is still very important. The technical term
is called people skills.  It's called being polite and listening.  It's a
skill that will serve you well in life.  I think the only people I know who
do not require people skills or political skills with a small p are quants
and that is only because their skills are in very high demand.

If you wish to join the community in mapping then please listen to what it
says.  If you want to do something else fine, you can set up your own OSM
server and play on that to your heart's content but if you are playing on
the OSM community's database then you should abide by their rules.

The thing you don't seem to be comfortable with is the idea that someone
mapped something as they wanted to map it.  Yes they may well have got it
wrong from your point of view but it might well be correct from their point
of view and that is what OpenStreetMap is about.  Letting people map what
they want to map in the way they wish to do it.  By changing their tagging
you may offend the mapper and since its the mappers who are the most
important part of OSM this is not good.  This is a major reason why
automated edits are frowned on.  The other is if you don't know what you
are doing you can screw things up royally and by some of the feedback
you've had the community needs reassurance that you aren't screwing things
up royally.

Hopefully some of this might sink in, hopefully it might help you in other
ways than just dealing with OSM.

Mapping is supposed to be fun and this isn't.

Cheerio John

On 13 November 2017 at 19:42, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> Frederik, once again you are using your position and mailing list as a
> tribune, speaking to others instead of speaking to me.  I posted [1] my
> initial idea/tool, and you immediately wrote a large, mostly personal
> attack [2], rather than something like [3] - which also criticized, but
> helped guide it forward. Most of the issues you mention in [2] have long
> been addressed, but you don't care to discuss the actual changes - you
> already made up your mind that it's evil, and you haven't replied to a
> single attempt at a substantive communication. I even offered to video talk
> to you directly, hoping that an understanding could be reached, but alas.
>
> I think your emails strongly polarized community.  I kept changing and
> adapting Sophox based on the received feedback, including yours. I don't
> think you have ever changed the rhetoric or tried to gain understanding or
> a compromise. People come to the project, bring new ideas, and try to fix
> issues they see as important to them. Instead of trying to understand and
> adapt, several hard-liners have taken the "this is not how it's done around
> here" approach, and forced people out.
>
> Accusations are easy - we can spew them thousands at a time. Refuting them
> one by one takes much more effort. Saying that I jump topics many times
> doesn't make it so.  I am very consistently discussing just one thing -
> Sophox [4], and how it can help make OSM better. Tons of people want to
> runs bots on OSM, but Sophox tries to find a safe middle ground between
> bots and humans, addressing the problems that are clearly there (otherwise
> all these tools wouldn't have been created).
>
> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-
> October/079145.html
> [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-
> October/079146.html
> [3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-
> October/079172.html
> [4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Frederik Ramm 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 11/13/2017 10:58 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>> > Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument.
>>
>> Yuri, I think at this point it is time for me to stop reading your
>> contributions here. You are not genuinely trying to understand; this is
>> just a smoke-screen. You are trying to win an argument here by

Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Michael Reichert 
wrote:

> Hi Yuri,
>
> Am 13.11.2017 um 22:58 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:
> > Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. As for
> this
> > case -- this is not a mechanical edit. Per definition. I looked at each
> of
> > these three features, analyzed them, and thought this is a reasonable
> > change. You could call it a mistake (I am human), but it cannot be called
> > mechanical.
>
> Here comes another of our unwritten rules into play. Even if a
> systematical edit [1] is not a mechanical edit, it is sensible to
> discuss it beforehand as if it were a mechanical edit (although you
> could steps which involve the OSM wiki). This rule is unwritten but
> people who have followed discussions on any relevant mailing list or
> forum section will know it because some other users mentioned it there.
> That's why silently reading discussions for a while before doing
> possibly disruptive things in OSM is recommended (another unwritten rule).
>
> Michael, was there a URL [1] missing?   I 100% agree with you about this
unwritten rule, and that's why I am here too, discussing the tool and the
quick fix tasks. I might disagree with some of the hardliners, but thanks
to the discussion and feedback, Sophox tool has been substantially changed.
Also an existing rule in JOSM has been fixed.

The quick fixes have all been published, and I hope we can agree which ones
are non-conflicting. I do get a lot of animosity instead of fruitful
discussion, but despite that there has been a number of good comments that
helped it improve.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Dropping out, was: New OSM Quick-Fix service

Frederik, once again you are using your position and mailing list as a
tribune, speaking to others instead of speaking to me.  I posted [1] my
initial idea/tool, and you immediately wrote a large, mostly personal
attack [2], rather than something like [3] - which also criticized, but
helped guide it forward. Most of the issues you mention in [2] have long
been addressed, but you don't care to discuss the actual changes - you
already made up your mind that it's evil, and you haven't replied to a
single attempt at a substantive communication. I even offered to video talk
to you directly, hoping that an understanding could be reached, but alas.

I think your emails strongly polarized community.  I kept changing and
adapting Sophox based on the received feedback, including yours. I don't
think you have ever changed the rhetoric or tried to gain understanding or
a compromise. People come to the project, bring new ideas, and try to fix
issues they see as important to them. Instead of trying to understand and
adapt, several hard-liners have taken the "this is not how it's done around
here" approach, and forced people out.

Accusations are easy - we can spew them thousands at a time. Refuting them
one by one takes much more effort. Saying that I jump topics many times
doesn't make it so.  I am very consistently discussing just one thing -
Sophox [4], and how it can help make OSM better. Tons of people want to
runs bots on OSM, but Sophox tries to find a safe middle ground between
bots and humans, addressing the problems that are clearly there (otherwise
all these tools wouldn't have been created).

[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079145.html
[2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079146.html
[3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079172.html
[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 11/13/2017 10:58 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument.
>
> Yuri, I think at this point it is time for me to stop reading your
> contributions here. You are not genuinely trying to understand; this is
> just a smoke-screen. You are trying to win an argument here by cleverly
> jumping from topic to topic, putting words in people's mouths, and if
> that's not enough you try to simply write 20x more than anybody else
> hoping to wear everyone out.
>
> This mailing list is not a high school debate club, however much you
> treat it like one, and you've abused OpenStreetMap as your playground
> for far too long already starting when you first lied to me about
> stopping your mass wikidata tag additions. I'm tired of it and I won't
> make any further attempts to explain things to you.
>
> Just in case you are tempted to interpret future silence from me as a
> silent agreement - don't. Ever.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Branko Kokanovic

Hi all,
Lurking, but first time posting. I was trying to just ignore this
thread, but at this point, I had to add my 2c... My story: I am rather
new to OSM community (although I joined in 2009[1], probably before most
of you reading this:), came here (again) recently, full of optimism to
improve world (literally:). Created complete fancy tool to do fixes in
Serbia[2] and along the way, I learned about Sophox. This turned out to
be really cool tool to deal with problems we have in Serbia community
with 2 scripts (cyrillic/latin) and it helped me a lot, as you can
see[3]. Plan was even to get rid of my tool. I was also making plans
with Yuri to add support to query individual regions[4]!, and was eager
to work on that. However, I learned in this short period that this
community unfortunately has very fixed mindset (IMHO!). Yes, I can
understand rules you created around here and I understand needs for
them, and I tried really hard to obey all rules, stick to them, learn
new ones, not to get down whenever somebody interrogated my
changesets/reverted my whole day of work without asking, but now that
the bot I was doing work under is publicly mentioned in (IMHO) wrong
context, and now that it is banned, I cannot collect enough enthusiasm
to continue, I just give up from this unwelcoming community.
Don't get me wrong, I still think OSM is awesome, I will continue to
use it as always, but it is just not for me - it is clear that majority
of people here is strongly against mechanical edits (it's not about
Sophox really?) and I am kind of guy that thinks automation is
solution to everything:) (no, you should not take this literally!:) So,
all the good luck in this nice stringent community, but I will continue
to be just a user:)
Thanks, Branko

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Branko%20Kokanovic
[2] https://github.com/stalker314314/serbian-osm-lint
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Serbia/Sophox
[4] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T179991

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017, at 00:32, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> While it is easy to throw tons of accusations and be less civil, I
> will try maintain my level of decency.  I have forwarded you a snippet
> of one of the emails I received (without the sender name). Also, you
> are welcome to organize some independent person you trust in NYC to
> stop by and examine it in person, and I hope that person will be
> decent not to disclose the sender.> 
> I am still in this chat, despite the witch hunt. Which implies I do
> want to listen, and civilly communicate. The witch hunt is a fun
> activity for some, but others do provide useful feedback and comments,
> and that's why I am still hopeful.  Note that the ones who offered
> specific feedback and suggestions have not spoken yet after the
> changes, with the exception of @mmd (thanks!)> 
> Distorting what? I present my case. Most of the arguments are ignored.
> Tiny pieces of the emails get blown out of proportion.  I said a) why
> i do it, b) why i think its better than existing system, c) how it
> makes it easier to review/revert, unlike the current system. And I
> keep repeating these things from various angles, explaining that at
> the end of the day, this will make OSM better for everyone.  Instead,
> we are discussing everything but the above.> 
> _
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

While it is easy to throw tons of accusations and be less civil, I will try
maintain my level of decency.  I have forwarded you a snippet of one of the
emails I received (without the sender name). Also, you are welcome to
organize some independent person you trust in NYC to stop by and examine it
in person, and I hope that person will be decent not to disclose the sender.

I am still in this chat, despite the witch hunt. Which implies I do want to
listen, and civilly communicate. The witch hunt is a fun activity for some,
but others do provide useful feedback and comments, and that's why I am
still hopeful.  Note that the ones who offered specific feedback and
suggestions have not spoken yet after the changes, with the exception of
@mmd (thanks!)

Distorting what? I present my case. Most of the arguments are ignored. Tiny
pieces of the emails get blown out of proportion.  I said a) why i do it,
b) why i think its better than existing system, c) how it makes it easier
to review/revert, unlike the current system. And I keep repeating these
things from various angles, explaining that at the end of the day, this
will make OSM better for everyone.  Instead, we are discussing everything
but the above.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jan Macura

2017-11-13 19:34 GMT+01:00 Miroslav Suchy :

> Nebo celá vesnice byla posunutá, tj. adresní body
> byli o 50 metru na východ. Celá ulice.
>

Body byl*y*  (!)
Anyway, tohle je ten případ, který jsem měl na mysli, když jsem vznášel
dotaz. Pokud dobře hledám na OSM Wiki, tak import adres proběhl v roce
2014. Tehdy bylo použitelně digitálních asi 75 % k.ú. Dnes jich je
použitelně digitálních přes 90 %. Tzn. za ty 3 roky se ve spoustě území v
RÚIANu objevily domečky, které někdo přetrasoval do OSM, ale adresní body,
které se často ocitly (systematicky) mimo polygon budovy, se za tu dobu
nehnuly ani o tu setinu milimetru ;-) Posouvat ručně? Bylo by to fakt na
palici, určitě bude snazší cesta.

H.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Dropping out, was: New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 11/13/2017 10:58 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. 

Yuri, I think at this point it is time for me to stop reading your
contributions here. You are not genuinely trying to understand; this is
just a smoke-screen. You are trying to win an argument here by cleverly
jumping from topic to topic, putting words in people's mouths, and if
that's not enough you try to simply write 20x more than anybody else
hoping to wear everyone out.

This mailing list is not a high school debate club, however much you
treat it like one, and you've abused OpenStreetMap as your playground
for far too long already starting when you first lied to me about
stopping your mass wikidata tag additions. I'm tired of it and I won't
make any further attempts to explain things to you.

Just in case you are tempted to interpret future silence from me as a
silent agreement - don't. Ever.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Andy Townsend


On 13/11/2017 22:31, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
...  Maybe I should write up an FAQ with all the arguments raised 
here, and simply refer to them? It would save on typing.


No, maybe you should just listen and act on the feedback that you're 
getting here.  There have been an awful lot of replies in this thread, 
and the vast majority have been directly critical of what you're doing here.


As JB said earlier ("Did someone already said that you mix issues?"), 
you're deliberately trying to confuse and distort what people have said 
(also e.g. "I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument").


In the mean time, I receive *multiple* private emails of support from 
people who feel intimidated to discuss it here


Ah, that old chestnut.  Unfortunately we have absolutely no evidence for 
this other than your word for it, and as you've not been entirely honest 
in the past*, such statements carry little weight.


Best Regards,
Andy

* https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079085.html


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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

@mmd, thanks, inline:

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 5:32 PM, mmd  wrote:

> > * Added voting - experimental tasks require two users agreement to
> change DB
>
> I assumed this to be a mandatory part of the new process. However, some
> recent edits made by a "Serbian OSM Lint bot" [1] via your tool
> indicates that you can skip pretty much all of those safeguards, and
> still be able to run mass updates without any kind of voting, two user
> agreement, etc. Not sure, if this is intentional, or a bug.
>

The voting is meant to be used by the task authors when they publish
experimental tasks to the community. For example, if I write a new,
possibly contentious task that might cause significant disruption, and
decide to publish it to a large community, I should enable voting for that
task by setting "vote": true -- especially because most of the users might
not be experts in the specific change. If I simply use Sophox as my own
power editor, instead of JOSM/Level0/...,  I would edit things directly,
and follow the same rules as set for the rest of the community. In this
case, Serbian OSM Lint bot simply makes these changes directly. I think
that person used to add name:sr with a custom script and/or by hand, and
now simply uses Sophox for their work.

> * Made it simple to revert Sophox changes: changesets now contain
> > "task_id" to track task-related edits.
>
> Also, this seems to be optional:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53753685 has task_id =
> "undefined" and was editing via Sophox 0.5. Isn't this case handled in
> your tool to forbid creating such changesets in the first place?
>

This change was not done as part of a task, it was done in the "power
editor" mode (as described above).  I think task_id should be set to
something else though, instead of undefined, to indicate that the user is
using it in the power mode, and takes personal responsibility for all
changes. Or I could simply not add the task_id tag in those cases. BTW, I
think they should still use taskId in addition to the comment to better
track their work.

BTW, it is not possible to run a task without task id in a published
(embed) mode.  You can only run it as a task developer by hand (by editing
the query, clicking run button, and scrolling down into the results section)
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Michael Reichert

Hi Yuri,

Am 13.11.2017 um 22:58 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:
> Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. As for this
> case -- this is not a mechanical edit. Per definition. I looked at each of
> these three features, analyzed them, and thought this is a reasonable
> change. You could call it a mistake (I am human), but it cannot be called
> mechanical.

Here comes another of our unwritten rules into play. Even if a
systematical edit [1] is not a mechanical edit, it is sensible to
discuss it beforehand as if it were a mechanical edit (although you
could steps which involve the OSM wiki). This rule is unwritten but
people who have followed discussions on any relevant mailing list or
forum section will know it because some other users mentioned it there.
That's why silently reading discussions for a while before doing
possibly disruptive things in OSM is recommended (another unwritten rule).

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Talk-de] Announcement and RFC: German Local Chapter application

On Monday 13 November 2017, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> First of all, my apologies for posting to talk-de in English. Feel
> free to respond in German. It would be great if someone can volunteer
> to translate this message into German and repost this message in
> other relevant channels. Thank you!
>
> You may be aware that FOOSGIS e.V. has applied to become the official
> German Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As part of the
> application process, I am asking you, the German community, to share
> any questions, comments or concerns that you have, so we can address
> them.

For reference: the subject has previously been discussed here in:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2016-October/thread.html#113569
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2017-August/thread.html#114178

Frederik has probably already summarized the main points of this 
discussion (in which the reaction was generally positive) to the OSMF 
board.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

Thanks Christoph, I love #386 too.  As I repeatedly stated - my goal is to
allow simpler way for community to fix issues, which in turn would lower
data consumer entry barrier. Not prove someone incorrect (despite the
appearance). Several specific issues and suggestions were raised in this
thread, and they have been resolved. I proposed that we pick a some well
understood tasks for wider review, but instead we got bugged down with
level=0 debate. Many times I stated (what I hope is a) logical argument,
but a few people pick one tiny sentence out of the whole thing and argue
about that, or do a personal attack.  Maybe I should write up an FAQ with
all the arguments raised here, and simply refer to them? It would save on
typing. In the mean time, I receive *multiple* private emails of support
from people who feel intimidated to discuss it here - and I think this is
by far the most significant problem with this discussion, and community
health in general?

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 5:13 PM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Monday 13 November 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. [...]
>
> If you have made this assumption about anyone who you have communicated
> with in the OSM community in the past you would be well advised to stop
> that and review the views you have developed based on that assumption.
>
> https://xkcd.com/386/ is something something most of us have stopped
> doing relatively soon after we discovered the internet...
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione mmd

Am 07.11.2017 um 07:29 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:
> The tool has been thoroughly reworked, thanks to many good suggestions.
> Please keep discussion to constructive suggestions and ideas - they help
> us all move forward and reach agreement.
> 
> What's new:
> * Added "reject" vote button
> * Tasks can now offer multiple choices selection (thanks Tobias for the
> idea)
> * Added voting - experimental tasks require two users agreement to change DB

I assumed this to be a mandatory part of the new process. However, some
recent edits made by a "Serbian OSM Lint bot" [1] via your tool
indicates that you can skip pretty much all of those safeguards, and
still be able to run mass updates without any kind of voting, two user
agreement, etc. Not sure, if this is intentional, or a bug.


> * Users can "unvote" their own votes
> * Multiple changes per changeset
> * All votes are stored in the same RDF db, so the task can query it too.

> * Made it simple to revert Sophox changes: changesets now contain
> "task_id" to track task-related edits.

Also, this seems to be optional:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53753685 has task_id =
"undefined" and was editing via Sophox 0.5. Isn't this case handled in
your tool to forbid creating such changesets in the first place?

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serbian%20OSM%20Lint%20bot


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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Michael Reichert

Hi Yuri,

Am 13.11.2017 um 13:20 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:
> Christoph, I don't think this works for any community that grows beyond a
> certain size, especially when the community is not in the same
> location/building/land otherwise, and doesn't see each other every day.
> Look at Wikipedia, or any large social organization for that matter. At the
> village/startup level, you have very few codified rules, but as the group
> grows to a city/corporation size, it becomes more and more bureaucratic. We
> may not like it, but clear rules help community maintain cohesion, and
> prevents many conflicts.

No, it works. It works if someone is considerate and mindful and listens
(reads) what people write on mailing lists and forums. That's how I
learned how OSM works. I have read the mailing lists (Talk-de when it
was one of the most active mailing lists) and the German forum and
learned a lot of unwritten rules there. For example, the AGF rule, the
on the ground rule, to be friendly with newbies, not to blindly trust
satellite imagery and so on.

But if someone just bursts into a community instead of feeling his way,
it won't be a surprise if he violates a dozen of unwritten social rules
with one single action.

Best regards

Michael

-- 
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ausgenommen)
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

On Monday 13 November 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. [...]

If you have made this assumption about anyone who you have communicated 
with in the OSM community in the past you would be well advised to stop 
that and review the views you have developed based on that assumption.

https://xkcd.com/386/ is something something most of us have stopped 
doing relatively soon after we discovered the internet...

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 11/13/2017 08:52 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:
> At the risk of repeating something that's been said multiple times
> previously, with JOSM autofixes you're performing edits in an area where
> you've already edited.  You're presumably somewhat familiar with what's
> there

I'll also repeat something I have mentioned a while ago in this thread:
People have been blocked and their edits reverted for blindly loading
one area after the other in JOSM and clicking the fix button without
having knowledge of or interest in the area, because that counted as a
mechanical edit. If someone does the same just without JOSM in the loop,
of course it's also a mechanical edit that requires prior discussion.

Bye
Frederik

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[Talk-de] Announcement and RFC: German Local Chapter application

2017-11-13 Per discussione Martijn van Exel

Hi all,

First of all, my apologies for posting to talk-de in English. Feel free to
respond in German. It would be great if someone can volunteer to translate
this message into German and repost this message in other relevant
channels. Thank you!

You may be aware that FOOSGIS e.V. has applied to become the official
German Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As part of the
application process, I am asking you, the German community, to share any
questions, comments or concerns that you have, so we can address them.

You can find all the information about this Local Chapter application on
the wiki: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_
Chapters/Applications/Germany

I propose that we close this round of discussion on December 1, but if you
need more time, please let me know. I am looking forward to hearing your
responses.

Best regards,
Martijn van Exel
Secretary, OpenStreetMap Foundation
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. As for this
case -- this is not a mechanical edit. Per definition. I looked at each of
these three features, analyzed them, and thought this is a reasonable
change. You could call it a mistake (I am human), but it cannot be called
mechanical.

I have contacted the original author, but haven't heard back.  Judging by
their site, it does look like both a marsh and a monument. You might want
to classify it as something else - that's where the tag expert is needed.
http://gardenseeds.swarthmore.edu/gardenseeds/2017/03/return-of-crumhenge/

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 13/11/2017 21:19, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
>
> Andy, as I stated before, JOSM doesn't force you to edit in your area - it
> shows you whatever data you download. OverpassT can provide it to JOSM
> anywhere too. Your query in Sophox can be limited to an area, or can be
> anywhere - it all depends on the task's query. Also, you keep misusing the
> word "mechanical edit" (per wiki definition, see my other email).  Don't
> dilute the term.
>
>
> Unfortunately, a mechanical edit looks exactly like what you're doing -
> see https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53598691 for example.  The
> tags on that as they stand (before or after your edit) don't make a whole
> lot of sense - likely there's a whole bunch of stuff there yet to be
> mapped, and maybe someone more familiar with the area would know if either
> the "memorial" or "marsh" tags make any sense.
>
> Best Regards,
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Andy Townsend


On 13/11/2017 21:19, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:


Andy, as I stated before, JOSM doesn't force you to edit in your area 
- it shows you whatever data you download. OverpassT can provide it to 
JOSM anywhere too. Your query in Sophox can be limited to an area, or 
can be anywhere - it all depends on the task's query. Also, you keep 
misusing the word "mechanical edit" (per wiki definition, see my other 
email).  Don't dilute the term.




Unfortunately, a mechanical edit looks exactly like what you're doing - 
see https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53598691 for example.  The 
tags on that as they stand (before or after your edit) don't make a 
whole lot of sense - likely there's a whole bunch of stuff there yet to 
be mapped, and maybe someone more familiar with the area would know if 
either the "memorial" or "marsh" tags make any sense.


Best Regards,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 13/11/2017 19:36, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> > That's why I think Sophox is a much better and safer alternative to
> JOSM's autofixes.
>
> At the risk of repeating something that's been said multiple times
> previously, with JOSM autofixes you're performing edits in an area where
> you've already edited.  You're presumably somewhat familiar with what's
> there (you may even have actually visited in person and seen what it looks
> like on the ground). With your "tool" you're simply performing a mechanical
> edit with no experience of the underlying data.
>

Andy, as I stated before, JOSM doesn't force you to edit in your area - it
shows you whatever data you download. OverpassT can provide it to JOSM
anywhere too. Your query in Sophox can be limited to an area, or can be
anywhere - it all depends on the task's query. Also, you keep misusing the
word "mechanical edit" (per wiki definition, see my other email).  Don't
dilute the term.

My main point remains - doing a "by-the-way fixing" is worse than dedicated
effort to fix one issue at a time. Tagging experts who studied specific
issue, and who reviewed all relevant wiki notes and comment are better than
a local user who auto-accepts all JOSM-suggested fixes because they sound
reasonable, but who might have missed all the nuances of the specific tag
change. This makes it unrevertable and impossible to find. Also, it's bad
because if a user doesn't accept them, a subsequent editor eventually
will.  Local expertise needs to be balanced with tagging task expertise -
and sorry, there is no unicorn, who knows both perfectly.

In Rory's example - you cannot find who changed what in the past 16 months
for the bathroom autofix. You cannot revert it, because it is mixed with
others. My tool solves that, because experts can review it, and later
experts in that specific issue can review all found cases, and spot
errors.  Even if one person doing a Sophox task spots an error and tags it
as invalid, we can easily notice it and adjust or remove the task, and
easily revert all changes made for that task.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Serious JOSM performance degradation

2017-11-13 Per discussione Bob Hawkins

I posted a topic on this matter in OpenStreetMap Forum>Editors on the very same 
day as this thread was started, by coincidence, and directed to this mailing 
list by SomeoneElse.  I received helpful replies and believe I have succeeded 
in overcoming the slow responses we were experiencing as a result.  My reply is 
here: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=60403.  I should be 
interested to learn if it helps others.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] date de la mise à jour du cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione Philippe Verdy

Ce proxy maison fait les assemblages lui-même ? Comment gère-t-il les
superpositions en frontière de communes?

(apparemment il ne gère pas, il charge seulement la tuile de la commune où
se situe le point central, ce qui laisse des bordures blanches et coupures
sur certains côtés de carreaux découpés arbitrairement; pour certaines
tuiles il faut superposer des planches de 3 ou 4 communes, peut-être même
plus pour certaines frontières communales compliquées avec des concavités
ou des enclaves).

Quelle info afficher alors si ces communes ont des mises à jour différentes?

Le 13 novembre 2017 à 20:55, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Une planche cadastrale c'est quelques patés de maison, à mon avis trop
> petit pour être utilisé globalement sur un changeset.
>
> Rajouter l'info dans un entête http me semble faisable... surtout que ces
> tuiles proviennent un proxy maison qui interroge un service WMS spécifique
> à chaque commune pour en faire des tuiles TMS.
>
> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 19:33, marc marc  a
> écrit :
>
>> Comme c'est bientôt Noël, je rajoute :
>> L'idéal serrait que josm puisse récupérer la date et ajouter un
>> source:date sur le changeset au moins s'il est unique sur
>> la zone concernée.
>> Quelle taille fait Une planche cadastrale ? pour se faire une idée
>> si on utilise souvent des données de date différentes quand on traite
>> un village ou un quartier.
>>
>> Le 13. 11. 17 à 19:27, Vincent Privat a écrit :
>> > Tu crois qu'on pourrait transmettre l'info en même temps que les tuiles,
>> > dans un en-tête HTTP ?
>> > Comme ça on pourrait l'afficher via un clic droit sur la tuile.
>> >
>> > Le 13 novembre 2017 à 19:24, Christian Quest a écrit :
>> >
>> > Ce sont les tuiles proposées par la DGFiP, donc ce qu'ils ont en
>> > principe de plus récent.
>> >
>> > Ceci dit, ça ne dit pas de quand date la mise à jour des données qui
>> > se fait planche par planche. Ces infos sont dans les données
>> > publiées en opendata, il est possible de mettre en place une petite
>> > API pour récupérer cette info pour un lat/lon donné. Est-ce que JOSM
>> > saurait utiliser ça pour l'afficher ?
>> >
>> > Sinon, il y a la solution de refaire notre propre fond cadastral,
>> > plus riche... avec ce genre de metadonnées rendues visibles.
>> >
>> >
>> > Le 13 novembre 2017 à 18:05, David Crochet a écrit :
>> >
>> > Comment connaitre la date de mise à jour d'un plan cadastrale
>> > utilisé par JOSM en fond de carte ?
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] date de la mise à jour du cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione Christian Quest

Une planche cadastrale c'est quelques patés de maison, à mon avis trop
petit pour être utilisé globalement sur un changeset.

Rajouter l'info dans un entête http me semble faisable... surtout que ces
tuiles proviennent un proxy maison qui interroge un service WMS spécifique
à chaque commune pour en faire des tuiles TMS.

Le 13 novembre 2017 à 19:33, marc marc  a écrit :

> Comme c'est bientôt Noël, je rajoute :
> L'idéal serrait que josm puisse récupérer la date et ajouter un
> source:date sur le changeset au moins s'il est unique sur
> la zone concernée.
> Quelle taille fait Une planche cadastrale ? pour se faire une idée
> si on utilise souvent des données de date différentes quand on traite
> un village ou un quartier.
>
> Le 13. 11. 17 à 19:27, Vincent Privat a écrit :
> > Tu crois qu'on pourrait transmettre l'info en même temps que les tuiles,
> > dans un en-tête HTTP ?
> > Comme ça on pourrait l'afficher via un clic droit sur la tuile.
> >
> > Le 13 novembre 2017 à 19:24, Christian Quest a écrit :
> >
> > Ce sont les tuiles proposées par la DGFiP, donc ce qu'ils ont en
> > principe de plus récent.
> >
> > Ceci dit, ça ne dit pas de quand date la mise à jour des données qui
> > se fait planche par planche. Ces infos sont dans les données
> > publiées en opendata, il est possible de mettre en place une petite
> > API pour récupérer cette info pour un lat/lon donné. Est-ce que JOSM
> > saurait utiliser ça pour l'afficher ?
> >
> > Sinon, il y a la solution de refaire notre propre fond cadastral,
> > plus riche... avec ce genre de metadonnées rendues visibles.
> >
> >
> > Le 13 novembre 2017 à 18:05, David Crochet a écrit :
> >
> > Comment connaitre la date de mise à jour d'un plan cadastrale
> > utilisé par JOSM en fond de carte ?
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Andy Townsend


On 13/11/2017 19:36, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:

> That's why I think Sophox is a much better and safer alternative to 
JOSM's autofixes.


At the risk of repeating something that's been said multiple times 
previously, with JOSM autofixes you're performing edits in an area where 
you've already edited.  You're presumably somewhat familiar with what's 
there (you may even have actually visited in person and seen what it 
looks like on the ground).


With your "tool" you're simply performing a mechanical edit with no 
experience of the underlying data.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Rory McCann  wrote:

> On 13/11/17 01:16, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
>> if an accepted tool already does something in a certain way, and noone is
>> raising any objections to it, I think other software should follow in the
>> same foot steps.
>>
> > ...
>
>> I haven't heard anyone saying that JOSM validator autofixes do a bad
>> thing until this conversation. Do you think they are bad?
>>
>
> Yes, sometimes! I looked at your fixes, saw one that didn't make sense,
> (about unisex toilets) followed it to the JOSM validator, filed a bug which
> seems to be fixed ( https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/15536 ).
>
> JOSM isn't perfect, "many eyes make all bugs shallow" etc.
>
> Great, thanks for spotting it! I will update the Sophox task shortly as
well.
But my statement about "tool doing something in a certain way" is not about
the specific task - as they can be buggy in every tool. I was talking about
the overall JOSM autofix approach that Sophox copies and attempts to
improve. I don't think your example argues against that.

On the contrary, your example shows that it is much better to have these
tasks standalone, with an expert oversight.  Right now you have no easy way
to find when users have auto-fixed the bathrooms using JOSM - there could
be none, or thousands.  And they are mixed together with other changes,
making it nearly impossible to revert. With Sophox, you can instantly find
them all, and review/revert them - simply search changsets for
task_id=josm_unisex_female_male_dup.  That's why I think Sophox is a much
better and safer alternative to JOSM's autofixes.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Soukrome bazeny - Re: Uživatel fell3 - podivné mapování

2017-11-13 Per discussione Vladimír Slávik


Ahoj,
pokud je potřeba další munici, narazil jsem náhodou na "most" v parku 
který nám pan Fell vyrobil ze schodů se zábradlím. Víceméně to podporuje 
teorii že mastí cokoliv uvidí...

V+

Dne 13.11.2017 v 11:11 majka napsal(a):
Nezastřelili, ale buď ho trefilo nebo jsem ho těžce urazila a na Čechy 
se vybodne, když ho tu nedokážeme ocenit. Poslední editace před 5 dny, 
opravený ten jediný bazén. Jedním okem pořád koukám, jestli se znovu 
nerozjede.


Možná by stálo za to začít přemýšlet o tom, co s těmi jeho změnami. 
Sám to neopraví, protože podle mého neví jak a neví co (absolutně 
nebude mít přehled o tom, co kde všechno udělal). Jen tak se na to 
vybodnout se mi nechce.

Jsou to extrémní čísla - počet změn (sad změn) jen ČR: 1 010 288 (40 532)

Samozřejmě se to dá nějak vyselektovat přes overpass turbo, ale ani to 
není jednoduché řešení. Spíš to vidím na prohrabání se extraktem 
pomocí osmosis, rozdělit podle území a pak to po částech projít a 
zkontrolovat v JOSM.


za mě je třeba prohlédnout:
- ty bazény, rozhodnout co s nimi (pokud je to jediná značka, vymazat 
nebo nacpat všude private)
- projít jím přidané cesty (tedy ulice), dost toho jsou také soukromé 
vjezdy za plotem
- zastávky MHD - je třeba zkontrolovat Jihlavu + kdekoli odmazával 
highway=bus_stop

- zjistit, co tam nacpal dalšího

2017-11-12 19:21 GMT+01:00 jzvc >:


Cus, jen takovej dotaz, uz ste ho zastrelili? Prave sem narazil na
zeleznici se kterema sem se ... aby sedeli na metr a je to cely
zmrveny.
A to predpokladam ze se da rict o vsech jeho editacich. Bylo by
treba mu nakopnout rit a to zcela in natura.




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Re: [Talk-it] False ciminiere

2017-11-13 Per discussione Paolo Monegato


Il 09/11/2017 18:34, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:
Quando una categoria non è sufficientemente precisa nei dati da 
importare, non resta altro che non importare in modo automatico, ma 
manuale, per mio avviso.


Si fa prima a dire che non si importa niente. Tutte le categorie della 
CTR sono più generiche dei possibili tag di OSM (pensiamo anche agli 
edifici, messi tutti come "yes" quando si potrebbe essere più specifici 
con i vari apartments, house, bungalow...).


Io trovo che ci sono in generale troppi oggetti importati, dove il 
mapping definitivo è lasciato a future generazioni di mappatori con 
note varie (mi vengono in mente la denominazione di chiese, dove anche 
spesso non solo l'edifico è taggato come chiesa, o i tanti "verificare 
se man_made=works", o i retaining walls con direzione a caso. Sono 
tutte cose che sono rimaste li ormai da anni e solo occasionalmente 
qualcuno le corregge.
Sarebbe da fare un bel lavoro sistematico su tutto il terreno con import. 


Hai ragione quando dici che le correzioni sono occasionali e tante cose 
son lì da tempo. Ma imho quella soluzione, con tanto di fixme, resta il 
miglior compromesso possibile:


- si evita che vengano ricalcati in modo approssimativo e da Bing una 
marea di edifici
- si evita che vengano importati i dati da altri (ricordi cos'è successo 
con le idrovie? Il dataset era lì a disposizione con le sue belle 
autorizzazioni all'import, la comunità ha tergiversato ed alla fine un 
esterno che non partecipava alle discussioni ha caricato un bel po' di 
roba creando anche qualche problemino)

- si rende evidente con il fixme o il note che il dato è da perfezionare

ciao
Paolo M


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Re: [Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Ha Noj

> Adresní bod nemusí být ve středu budovy. Ideální je na vchodu. Tak by to mělo 
> být v RUIAN.
*** Žádný ideál vchodu není, jen tento způsob značení někteří
prosazují ;). Analogii v jiných dabázích to nemá a na vchod je v OSM
jiný tag.

>  protože v dávných dobách jsme si mysleli, že RUIAN je svatý a zaručeně vše 
> správně :-).
*** To si asi nikdo nemyslel, nic lepšího není a naštěstí je alespoň
toto jinak by v OSM nebylo nic. ;)

ha
hanoj

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Re: [Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Miroslav Suchy

Dne 13.11.2017 v 15:17 Petr Vejsada napsal(a):
> žádoucí editace by to mohla být pouze manuálně a za intenzivního používání 
> hlavy ;-). Robot to už dávno dělá a není to vůbec triviální.

Přesně tak.
Někdy jsem narazil na to, že adresa je na stodole a nikoliv na baráku. Nebo 
celá vesnice byla posunutá, tj. adresní body
byli o 50 metru na východ. Celá ulice. Všechny baráky pak vyskakovali na 
StreetComplete k doplnění adresy. Když jsem si
to ověřil u několika baráku, tak jsem pak posunul všechny body v ulici.
V každém případě to dělám jenom v ulicích kde jsem byl a nebo kde to znám.

Mirek

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] date de la mise à jour du cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione marc marc

Comme c'est bientôt Noël, je rajoute :
L'idéal serrait que josm puisse récupérer la date et ajouter un 
source:date sur le changeset au moins s'il est unique sur
la zone concernée.
Quelle taille fait Une planche cadastrale ? pour se faire une idée
si on utilise souvent des données de date différentes quand on traite
un village ou un quartier.

Le 13. 11. 17 à 19:27, Vincent Privat a écrit :
> Tu crois qu'on pourrait transmettre l'info en même temps que les tuiles, 
> dans un en-tête HTTP ?
> Comme ça on pourrait l'afficher via un clic droit sur la tuile.
> 
> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 19:24, Christian Quest a écrit :
> 
> Ce sont les tuiles proposées par la DGFiP, donc ce qu'ils ont en
> principe de plus récent.
> 
> Ceci dit, ça ne dit pas de quand date la mise à jour des données qui
> se fait planche par planche. Ces infos sont dans les données
> publiées en opendata, il est possible de mettre en place une petite
> API pour récupérer cette info pour un lat/lon donné. Est-ce que JOSM
> saurait utiliser ça pour l'afficher ?
> 
> Sinon, il y a la solution de refaire notre propre fond cadastral,
> plus riche... avec ce genre de metadonnées rendues visibles.
> 
> 
> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 18:05, David Crochet a écrit :
> 
> Comment connaitre la date de mise à jour d'un plan cadastrale
> utilisé par JOSM en fond de carte ?
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] date de la mise à jour du cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione Vincent Privat

Tu crois qu'on pourrait transmettre l'info en même temps que les tuiles,
dans un en-tête HTTP ?
Comme ça on pourrait l'afficher via un clic droit sur la tuile.

Le 13 novembre 2017 à 19:24, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Ce sont les tuiles proposées par la DGFiP, donc ce qu'ils ont en principe
> de plus récent.
>
> Ceci dit, ça ne dit pas de quand date la mise à jour des données qui se
> fait planche par planche. Ces infos sont dans les données publiées en
> opendata, il est possible de mettre en place une petite API pour récupérer
> cette info pour un lat/lon donné. Est-ce que JOSM saurait utiliser ça pour
> l'afficher ?
>
> Sinon, il y a la solution de refaire notre propre fond cadastral, plus
> riche... avec ce genre de metadonnées rendues visibles.
>
>
> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 18:05, David Crochet  a
> écrit :
>
>> Bonjour
>>
>> Comment connaitre la date de mise à jour d'un plan cadastrale utilisé par
>> JOSM en fond de carte ?
>>
>> Cordialement
>>
>> --
>> David Crochet
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] date de la mise à jour du cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione Christian Quest

Ce sont les tuiles proposées par la DGFiP, donc ce qu'ils ont en principe
de plus récent.

Ceci dit, ça ne dit pas de quand date la mise à jour des données qui se
fait planche par planche. Ces infos sont dans les données publiées en
opendata, il est possible de mettre en place une petite API pour récupérer
cette info pour un lat/lon donné. Est-ce que JOSM saurait utiliser ça pour
l'afficher ?

Sinon, il y a la solution de refaire notre propre fond cadastral, plus
riche... avec ce genre de metadonnées rendues visibles.


Le 13 novembre 2017 à 18:05, David Crochet  a écrit :

> Bonjour
>
> Comment connaitre la date de mise à jour d'un plan cadastrale utilisé par
> JOSM en fond de carte ?
>
> Cordialement
>
> --
> David Crochet
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>



-- 
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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

2017-11-13 Per discussione Tobias Zwick

Hi Martin

Understood, thanks for the link. I will post on the SK mailing list as
well then. :-)

Cheers
Tobias

On 13/11/2017 08:51, Martin Ždila wrote:
> Hi Tobias,
> 
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Tobias Zwick  > wrote:
> 
> Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards
> to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers?
> 
> 
> In Slovakia we have so far imported housenumbers of many places but also
> many are still missing.
> 
> We have a wiki page related to this
> at http://wiki.freemap.sk/SupisneCislaKapor.
> 
> Recently a new source of addresses has opened for us so we are planning
> to do another big import. You can read it
> ad https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osm_sk/nV3b2l7ZSnI
>  (also in
> Slovak language).
> 
> For more details please ask on osm...@googlegroups.com
>  because I am directly not working on it.
> 
> Best regards
> --
> Martin Ždila 
> OZ Freemap Slovakia
> tel:+421-908-363-848
> mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk 
> http://www.freemap.sk/
> 
> 
> 
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[OSM-talk-fr] date de la mise à jour du cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione David Crochet


Bonjour

Comment connaitre la date de mise à jour d'un plan cadastrale utilisé 
par JOSM en fond de carte ?


Cordialement

--
David Crochet


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Re: [Talk-it] Disegna il logo si State of the Map

2017-11-13 Per discussione Dario Crespi

>
> - caricarlo su Commons con licenza CC


Devo specificare: CC BY-SA, o CC BY o CC0. Altrimenti niente Commons :-)

Dario

Il giorno 13 novembre 2017 17:36, Alessandro Palmas <
alessandro.pal...@wikimedia.it> ha scritto:

> Ciao lista,
> come ho già scritto stiamo già lavorando a State of the Map 2018
> Volevamo lanciare anche su questa lista il contest per disegnare logo e
> grafica della maglietta dell'evento.
>
> Avete un'idea anche se non vi sentite dei grafici? Non importa. Potete
> disegnare un logo e, se volete, disegnare una grafica diversa per la
> maglietta.
>
> Le cose importanti sono:
> - caricarlo su Commons con licenza CC
> - formato grafico svg
> - possibilmente a 3 colori; in caso contrario per i materiali stampati
> ridurremo i colori.
> - caricatelo entro fine mese
>
> Qui http://www.wikimedia.it/disegna-logo-state-of-the-map-2018/ la pagina
> principale dove trovate informazioni, i premi e il link al regolamento.
>
> Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
>
> P.S.: e se qualcuno vuole dare una mano anche in piccole cose è ancora il
> benvenuto.
>
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[Talk-it] Disegna il logo si State of the Map

2017-11-13 Per discussione Alessandro Palmas


  
  
Ciao lista,
come ho già scritto stiamo già lavorando a State of the Map 2018
Volevamo lanciare anche su questa lista il contest per disegnare
logo e grafica della maglietta dell'evento.

Avete un'idea anche se non vi sentite dei grafici? Non importa.
Potete disegnare un logo e, se volete, disegnare una grafica diversa
per la maglietta.

Le cose importanti sono:
- caricarlo su Commons con licenza CC
- formato grafico svg
- possibilmente a 3 colori; in caso contrario per i materiali
stampati ridurremo i colori.
- caricatelo entro fine mese

Qui http://www.wikimedia.it/disegna-logo-state-of-the-map-2018/ la
pagina principale dove trovate informazioni, i premi e il link al
regolamento.

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

P.S.: e se qualcuno vuole dare una mano anche in piccole cose è
ancora il benvenuto.
  


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[talk-ph] Disruptive data deletions by "mandyboy" in the Philippines

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jherome Miguel

This user, "mandyboy" (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mandyboy), can be
considered disruptive for removing lots of important data (especially
polygons of residential areas, commercial areas, parks, schools, etc.), and
his edits can be considered vandalism already. Though a fresh user
(although registered since 2012), this is already disruptive in the way
that he deleted many important features (mapped as polygons) around the
cities of Bacoor, Imus, and Las Piñas, in the Philippines. I have just
reverted several deletions of some important features he deleted (e.g. St.
Jerome Emiliani Institute, Summer Pointe Residences, De La Salle Zobel
Vermosa, around Bacoor and Imus), and started a OpenStreetMap Philippines
"papercut_fix" project issue on GitHub (see
https://github.com/OSMPH/papercut_fix/issues/32). The user is using vague
comments that says "UPDATE" (or "Updated"), usually with a date, which
hides the user's behavior of deleting a lot of data from the map for no
valid reason. I consider blocking this user for at least a week or two, so,
he can learn about the effects of those map deletions to users of OSM map
data. Several mass deletions of POIs by this user (especially the case of St.
Jerome Emiliani Institute) have already surfaced on MAPS.ME on the latest
update, and after investigating edits he made on the last month, I started
to believe that those deletions has something to do with them disappearing
from the latest map data in the last update.

--TagaSanPedroAko (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TagaSanPedroAko)
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[Talk-it] Aggiornamento dati AMAT Milano

2017-11-13 Per discussione ta...@tiscali.it

Ciao a tutti,
utilizzando ieri un navigatore mi sono accorto che le linee ATM di più
recente modifica non sono ancora state aggiornate su OSM; prima di mettermi
(tempo permettendo) a inserire i cambiamenti, volevo capire se qualcuno sa
se AMAT provvede ancora all'aggiornamento dei dati presenti nel proprio
grafo (nel qual caso è opportuno attendere l'update massivo da parte loro).
Grazie!

D.K.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Petr Vejsada

Ahoj,

no jasně, pokud vidíš, že je adresní bod špatně, tak ho posunout.

Adresní bod nemusí být ve středu budovy. Ideální je na vchodu. Tak by to mělo 
být v RUIAN.

Robot ty "chytré" posuny nedělá od začátku importu, protože v dávných dobách 
jsme si mysleli, že RUIAN je svatý a zaručeně vše správně :-). Teprve postupem 
času se nalézaly ty chyby, co v něm jsou a dopilovával se ten algoritmus, jak 
co nejlépe zautomatizovat umístění adresního bodu.

Co by šlo udělat, je pustit stávající algoritmus na celou ČR a nechat si 
vygenerovat varování. Je otázkou jaká varování. Případů, kdy adresní bod v OSM 
je na jiné pozici než v RUIAN budou statisíce. Případů. kdy je adresní bod dále 
než 10 metrů od budovy budou desetitisíce. ?

Zkráceně - prioritu má umístění adresy tak jak je v OSM. Teprve když to vypadá, 
že je to divně, zkouší se umístění bodu z RUIAN. Tam se testují vzdálenosti od 
polygonu budovy či definičního bodu, zda adresa neleží na jiném domě než ke 
kterému patří apod. To by se vše dalo a prohnat tím znovu celou ČR. Jen by na 
následné ruční procházení byl potřeba dost velký a výkonný tým :-).

O reklamacích adresních bodů jsme, pokud vím, zatím neuvažovali. Když se koukám 
na popis na ČÚZK, tak tam se dá reklamovat prakticky všechno a tedy by to šlo 
určitě snáze než reklamace stavebních objektů. Adresy naštěstí nemají jinou 
geometrii než definiční bod :-).

Dotáhnu ty reklamace budov do podoby, jak jen to bude možné (tedy myslím 
hlášení těch neexistujících). Ty chybné geometrie je běh na dlouhou trať. Buď 
by museli začít přijímat takový typ reklamace a nebo to táhnou přes tu změnu 
definičního bodu. Tam ale může být problém s tím, abychom dokázali posunout 
definiční bod o více než 5 metrů, aby reklamace byla přijata. Třeba u těch 
rozřezaných budov je definiční bod +- správně.

Pak můžeme uvažovat o reklamacích adres.?

Petr

Dne Po 13. listopadu 2017 15:43:03, majka napsal(a):

> >
> > žádoucí editace by to mohla být pouze manuálně a za intenzivního používání
> > hlavy ;-). Robot to už dávno dělá a není to vůbec triviální.
> 
> 
> Myslím, že tuším odkud přišel dotaz - najdu odpovídající adresní bod blízko
> budovy, ale není "uvnitř" budovy. Předpokládám, že častěji to budou právě
> nepravidelné budovy či multipolygony, kdy adresní bod padne např. na
> parkoviště - bývá to do geometrického středu, a ta vzdálenost může být
> podle velikosti budovy dost značná. Případně už jsem taky viděla
> "přestěhovanou" budovu - adresní bod o cca 200 m jinde než je ve
> skutečnosti. Byl uprostřed čtyřpruhové ulice, takže možná opravdu nějaké
> přestěhování. Ty areály jsou něco trochu jiného, ale co tyhle případy?
> Posunout - neposunout? Hlásit - nehlásit?
> Zatím jsem v těch pár případech adresní bod přesouvala.


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Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jiří Komárek

Ano, tak nějak jsem si to představoval: od Stravy odečíst OSM, aby zbylo 
jen to, co někdo běhá ve Stravě, ale není v OSM. Ovšem právě tato vrstva 
se mi z nějakého důvodu vůbec nezobrazuje :-(



On 13.11.2017 15:15, majka wrote:


I když, že by přece jen?


https://labs.strava.com/slide/
https://www.google.cz/search?q=strava+opendata


Jen teoreticky.
Používám občas na http://strava.github.io/iD/ totéž.

Teoreticky pro to, že to funguje pořád dál, ale jak jsem pochopila, 
požadované (co chybí v OSM) by měla umět vrstva "Strava heat masked by 
OSM". Vizuálně mi z téhle vrstvy ovšem lezou nesmysly. Takže je to 
spíš pro případ, že vím, že cesta chybí, a chci jí přesně přidat podle 
Stravy - cvaknu nahrubo a nechám sjet (slide) do lepšího tvaru. Je 
třeba pečlivě kontrolovat, občas to dělá něco jiného, než si představuji.





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Re: [Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

>
> žádoucí editace by to mohla být pouze manuálně a za intenzivního používání
> hlavy ;-). Robot to už dávno dělá a není to vůbec triviální.


Myslím, že tuším odkud přišel dotaz - najdu odpovídající adresní bod blízko
budovy, ale není "uvnitř" budovy. Předpokládám, že častěji to budou právě
nepravidelné budovy či multipolygony, kdy adresní bod padne např. na
parkoviště - bývá to do geometrického středu, a ta vzdálenost může být
podle velikosti budovy dost značná. Případně už jsem taky viděla
"přestěhovanou" budovu - adresní bod o cca 200 m jinde než je ve
skutečnosti. Byl uprostřed čtyřpruhové ulice, takže možná opravdu nějaké
přestěhování. Ty areály jsou něco trochu jiného, ale co tyhle případy?
Posunout - neposunout? Hlásit - nehlásit?
Zatím jsem v těch pár případech adresní bod přesouvala.
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Re: [Talk-us] Integrating our open source data into OSM

2017-11-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst

Sean Lindsey wrote:
> I do want to produce something that is useful for
> open source and OSM/its community

Let me join in the thanks for making this available.

Even though it might not be suitable for direct import into OSM (for legal
and/or community reasons), I wonder whether it might be suitable for seeding
better POI mapping in the US.

Minh Nguyen wrote the other year about POI deserts:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Minh%20Nguyen/diary/35646

If we know from your data that (to take an absolutely random example)
Potlatch, ID[1] has a bank, a convenience store, a cafe and a pharmacy, but
that none of these are mapped in OSM, this should be a prompt for mappers to
go out, find and map them, whether from direct survey or from
Mapillary/OpenStreetCam. The authors of those apps could even use this
information to 'gamify' collection of new POIs.

It would need a bit of careful thought about the legalities: my outline
understanding is that it should be ok as long as there is no direct copying
and that the data comparison is sufficiently abstracted (e.g. number of POIs
compared within a 1km square) to ensure that genuine survey/cam-mapping has
to take place. But LWG could no doubt advise further.

If done right, I'd hope this could be the spur to greatly improving OSM POI
coverage in the US.

cheers
Richard

[1] yes yes, well spotted. http://www.cityofpotlatch.org/

--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/USA-f5284732.html

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Re: [Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Petr Vejsada

Ahoj,

žádoucí editace by to mohla být pouze manuálně a za intenzivního používání 
hlavy ;-). Robot to už dávno dělá a není to vůbec triviální.

Při podezřelých posunech robot generuje varování a procházím to ručně, přičemž 
se snažím používat tu hlavu.

Příklad: adresa je 150 metrů od baráku, ale ten barák je obrovský sklad v 
obrovském areálu a ta adresa je u vjezdu do toho areálu, tedy ačkoli je velmi 
daleko od baráku, je správně.

Petr


Dne Po 13. listopadu 2017 14:29:45, Jan Macura napsal(a):

> k tomuhle mě napadá: to posouvání adresních bodů dovnitř polygonů budov je
> žádoucí editace? Ručně? Nebo se zkusíme zamyslet a pustíme na to robota?
> Přemýšlelo se o tom už někdy dřív?


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Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap

>
> I když, že by přece jen?
>
>
> https://labs.strava.com/slide/
> https://www.google.cz/search?q=strava+opendata


Jen teoreticky.
Používám občas na http://strava.github.io/iD/ totéž.

Teoreticky pro to, že to funguje pořád dál, ale jak jsem pochopila,
požadované (co chybí v OSM) by měla umět vrstva "Strava heat masked by
OSM". Vizuálně mi z téhle vrstvy ovšem lezou nesmysly. Takže je to spíš pro
případ, že vím, že cesta chybí, a chci jí přesně přidat podle Stravy -
cvaknu nahrubo a nechám sjet (slide) do lepšího tvaru. Je třeba pečlivě
kontrolovat, občas to dělá něco jiného, než si představuji.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap

2017-11-13 Per discussione Marián Kyral


-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Marián Kyral 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 15:00:45
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap
"
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Jiří Komárek 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 14:56:28
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap
"Díky, zkoušel jsem to relativně nedávno (cca týden?) a v JOSM mi
nefungoval zoom větší než tuším 16 (přiblížil-li člověk blíže, tak
vrstva jednoduše zmizela) . Teďka už vše funguje jak má (při zoomu
větším než 16 se vrstva pouze více pixelizuje, ale zůstává).


V souvislosti s tím mne napadá: neexistuje někde (zřejmě celosvětový,
neboť se to netýká pouze ČR) tool, který by porovnával data co má Strava
s tím, co je v OSM a vytvořil vrstvu "potenciálně chybějící cesty podle
Stravy"? Google nezná nebo se jej neumím ptát.
"



Leda že by jej udělala Strava. Mám pocit, že k dispozici jsou jen a pouze ty
vrsty. Ne data vhodna pro porovnávání.


"



I když, že by přece jen?




https://labs.strava.com/slide/


https://www.google.cz/search?q=strava+opendata




Marián
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Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap

>
> Díky, zkoušel jsem to relativně nedávno (cca týden?) a v JOSM mi
>>> nefungoval zoom větší než tuším 16 (přiblížil-li člověk blíže, tak vrstva
>>> jednoduše zmizela) . Teďka už vše funguje jak má (při zoomu větším než 16
>>> se vrstva pouze více pixelizuje, ale zůstává).
>>
>>
JOSM lze v nastavení Strava vrstvy stáhnout ostrost - v tomhle případě to
dávám nadoraz, protože zmizí ta pixelizace. Je třeba poštelovat.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap

2017-11-13 Per discussione Marián Kyral


-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Jiří Komárek 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 14:56:28
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap
"Díky, zkoušel jsem to relativně nedávno (cca týden?) a v JOSM mi
nefungoval zoom větší než tuším 16 (přiblížil-li člověk blíže, tak
vrstva jednoduše zmizela) . Teďka už vše funguje jak má (při zoomu
větším než 16 se vrstva pouze více pixelizuje, ale zůstává).


V souvislosti s tím mne napadá: neexistuje někde (zřejmě celosvětový,
neboť se to netýká pouze ČR) tool, který by porovnával data co má Strava
s tím, co je v OSM a vytvořil vrstvu "potenciálně chybějící cesty podle
Stravy"? Google nezná nebo se jej neumím ptát.
"



Leda že by jej udělala Strava. Mám pocit, že k dispozici jsou jen a pouze ty
vrsty. Ne data vhodna pro porovnávání.




Marián
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Re: [Talk-cz] Strava Heatmap

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jiří Komárek

Díky, zkoušel jsem to relativně nedávno (cca týden?) a v JOSM mi 
nefungoval zoom větší než tuším 16 (přiblížil-li člověk blíže, tak 
vrstva jednoduše zmizela) . Teďka už vše funguje jak má (při zoomu 
větším než 16 se vrstva pouze více pixelizuje, ale zůstává).



V souvislosti s tím mne napadá: neexistuje někde (zřejmě celosvětový, 
neboť se to netýká pouze ČR) tool, který by porovnával data co má Strava 
s tím, co je v OSM a vytvořil vrstvu "potenciálně chybějící cesty podle 
Stravy"? Google nezná nebo se jej neumím ptát.



On 11.11.2017 21:19, Milan Cerny wrote:

Jen pro zajímavost, po dlouhé době došlo na aktualizaci Strava Heatmap, někdy 
se to celkem hodí.
https://medium.com/strava-engineering/the-global-heatmap-now-6x-hotter-23fc01d301de?_branch_match_id=457982050159408399

https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#10.37/14.57074/49.98286/hot/all

Milan

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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Rory McCann


On 13/11/17 01:16, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
if an accepted tool already does something in a certain way, and 
noone is raising any objections to it, I think other software should 
follow in the same foot steps.

> ...
I haven't heard anyone saying that JOSM validator autofixes do a bad 
thing until this conversation. Do you think they are bad?


Yes, sometimes! I looked at your fixes, saw one that didn't make sense, 
(about unisex toilets) followed it to the JOSM validator, filed a bug 
which seems to be fixed ( https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/15536 ).


JOSM isn't perfect, "many eyes make all bugs shallow" etc.



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Re: [Talk-cz] Hlášení budov (Was: Fungující transformace z Křováka!)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jan Macura

2017-11-13 12:59 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :

>
> 2017-11-13 10:24 GMT+01:00 jzvc :
>
> To by sice bylo krasny, ale to bys neco takovyho musela mit jako podklad,
> pricemz predpokladam, ze spousta lidi (ktery ani nechodej sem) to dela
> proste tak, ze oklipou vsechno co v KM vypada jako budova.
>
>
> Stejně mi přijde zvláštní, že by to takto někdo fakt dělal.
>

Seems highly unlikely... Spíš bych řekl, že netuší, co ty barvičky ve
vrstvě RÚIAN budovy znamenají..

H.
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[Talk-cz] Posouvání adresních bodů (Was: Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jan Macura

Ahoj,

On 13 November 2017 at 10:03, Miroslav Suchy  wrote:

> * the housenumber is not put inside of the building area and is just
> slightly off. This is because the centroid from
> government has incorrect GPS data. In this case (90% of houses without
> housenumber) adding new number is wrong. The
> correct way is just to move point with housenumber inside of the area of
> building.
>

k tomuhle mě napadá: to posouvání adresních bodů dovnitř polygonů budov je
žádoucí editace? Ručně? Nebo se zkusíme zamyslet a pustíme na to robota?
Přemýšlelo se o tom už někdy dřív?

H.
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 11/13/17 13:04, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> On Monday 13 November 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>> Christoph, thanks for clarifying.  I should have been a bit more
>> careful with that word.  Could you clarify one thing - if wiki is not
>> authoritative for deprecation, than what is?  "Community consensus
>> that something is not to be used" has to be documented somewhere,
>> right?

> No, it does not have to.  It is the nature of most societies that not 
> all social rules that exist are also codified.  The process of becoming 
> a member of the OSM community to a large part consists of becoming 
> familiar with and developing an intuitive understanding of the 
> unwritten rules.

If I may add something here: OpenStreetMap has many unwritten rules and
this usually isn't a problem if someone goes through a normal
socialisation process - starting small with a few edits around their
house, looking around what others do, following a discussion or two,
etc.; they will pick up the rules as they go. This is just like in any
other society. It can go wrong when people from outside of OSM come in
and want to "hit the ground running", believing that their age, their
life experience, or their IT skills will automatically make them a
black-belt member of the OSM community. Upon noticing that there's maybe
more to OSM than can be seen from the API wiki page, some people try to
slow down and adapt, while others keep running and explain to everyone
in OSM how they're doing it wrong (or blame OSM for not having an
exhaustive handbook that you can study in order to avoid having to talk
to actual people).

Most rules that you find written in the Wiki were unwritten rules first,
and have been written down in order to make the onboarding easier for
new people - for example, we talked about "not tagging for the renderer"
long before http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
existed. The wiki page now tries to explain that unwritten rule to
people, but that doesn't mean the wiki page *is* the rule. It's like
when you read in a travel guide that walking barefoot is frowned upon in
the country you plan to visit. The travel guide is trying to be helpful
so you don't embarrass yourself but the travel guide isn't the authority.

So yes, like Christoph says, in OSM community consensus isn't
necessarily written somewhere because you will learn about it while
becoming a member of the community. Even so, everyday normal mapping
(even by a total newbie) hardly ever falls foul of community consensus
if mappers let themselves be guided by presets and try do "blend in".

It works reasonably well on the whole.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[Talk-cl] Division Politico Administrativa (DPA) y distritos censales

2017-11-13 Per discussione Juan Pizarro

Estimados,

Es un gusto escribirles.

Estoy interesado en saber si se estan haciendo esfuerzos para agregar los
distritos censales a OSM, como se hizo hace algun tiempo con provincias y
comunas [1].

Los distritos censales aparecen nombrados en [2] y al parecer estan
disponibles en [3] pero no aparece la licencia.

Me gustaria saber si alguien ya tiene estos datos con una licencia
compatible a OSM o sabe que gestiones y con quien se deben hacer?, para
partipar en el proyecto de la importacion de estos.

*Favor continuar conversacion en este hilo, ya que el correo anterior tenia
un asunto incorrecto, como lo expuso Exequiel Gaete Pavez*

Saludos
Gracias

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chile:Map_Features#Division_Politico_
Administrativa_.28DPA.29
[2] http://historico.ine.cl/canales/chile_estadistico/
territorio/division_politico_administrativa/pdf/DPA_COMPLETA.pdf
[3] http://datos.cedeus.cl/layers/geonode:distritos_precensales_chile

PS: Gracias Exequiel Gaete Pavez  por aclarar que la
Division Politico Administrativa (DPA) y distritos censales son conceptos
separados.

-- 

*Juan Pizarro*
*Mob:*
*E-Mail:*
+56 9 75891972
jpizar...@gmail.com 

-
OpenStreetMap.cl: El Mapa Libre del Mundo
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

Christoph, I don't think this works for any community that grows beyond a
certain size, especially when the community is not in the same
location/building/land otherwise, and doesn't see each other every day.
Look at Wikipedia, or any large social organization for that matter. At the
village/startup level, you have very few codified rules, but as the group
grows to a city/corporation size, it becomes more and more bureaucratic. We
may not like it, but clear rules help community maintain cohesion, and
prevents many conflicts.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Monday 13 November 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > Christoph, thanks for clarifying.  I should have been a bit more
> > careful with that word.  Could you clarify one thing - if wiki is not
> > authoritative for deprecation, than what is?  "Community consensus
> > that something is not to be used" has to be documented somewhere,
> > right?
>
> No, it does not have to.  It is the nature of most societies that not
> all social rules that exist are also codified.  The process of becoming
> a member of the OSM community to a large part consists of becoming
> familiar with and developing an intuitive understanding of the
> unwritten rules.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OSMGeoWeek et francophonie - Dernière ligne droite !

2017-11-13 Per discussione Violaine Doutreleau


Super !

Du coup voilà le programme en France pour soutenir les communautés OSM 
du Niger, Mada, Burkina, Sénégal, Mali et Haiti, sur leurs projets de 
développement économique ou humanitaire !


Au final 9 mapathons (+2 déjà full), rendez-vous :

- 13/11 au Mug à Chambéry pour le Burkina (Bobo Dioulasso, palu): Info 
et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 14/11 à l'OpenFactory à Saint Étienne pour le Sénégal (Touba, 
pélerinage): Info et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 14/11 à l'Impact Hub à Genève pour Haiti (BV de Zerplin, lutte contre 
la déforestation): Info et inscription, ici 



- 15/11 à La Scoop La Péniche à Grenoble pour le Mali (Bamako, carte de 
base): Info et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 15/11 à HarryCow Coworking à Toulouse pour le Mali (Bamako, carte de 
base): Info et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 15/11 à La maison de la Consommation et de l'environnement à Rennes 
pour le Mali (Bamako, carte de base): Info et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 16/11 au Liberté Living Lab à Paris pour Madagascar (Antsiranana, 
tourisme): Info et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 17/11 à la MJC d'Ambérieu-en-Bugey : Info et inscription, ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



- 20/11 Mapathon de clôture au CCO de Villeurbanne (Lyon) pour 
Madagascar (Antsiranana, tourisme) et le Burkina (Bobo Dioulasso, palu) 
: Info et inscription, 
ici 
 
& vidéo de présentation du projet 



Un grand merci à tous qui soutenez ces projets,
A bientôt j'espère,

CartONG    Humanitarian mapping and information 
management


Violaine Doutreleau | Missing Maps project coordinator

Email: v_doutrel...@cartong.org 
Phone:+33 (0)4 79 26 28 82
Mobile:+33 (0)6 95 02 42 44
Skype:doutreleau.violaine

Website: cartong.org  | Twitter: @assocCartONG 
 | Address: Trévoux (Lyon area), 
France 
 



Le 13/11/2017 à 07:15, Jean-Christophe Becquet a écrit :

Bonjour,

OSMGEOWEEK, la Semaine de Sensibilisation Géographie OSM commence
aujourd'hui avec plus de 170 événements dans le monde entier.
http://osmgeoweek.org/events/

À Digne, nous organisons une cartopartie sur le thème de la santé, jeudi
16 novembre de 9h à 18h
http://osmgeoweek.org/event/adrets/

Bonne journée

JC


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Re: [Talk-dk] Cykelstier versus gangstier

2017-11-13 Per discussione Sonny B. Andersen

Igen, igen, men tak alligevel.

Jeg mest tilbøjelig til at give Niels Elgaard Larsen ret. Der er alt for mange 
cykelsti-tags, både i det åbne land og i parker. Brug highway=path + 
designation og helst også et surface-tag. Et særligt problem er de stier, der 
forbinder de blinde veje i villakvartererne. Dem ville man jo aldrig kalde 
cykelstier i daglig tale, men ikke desto mindre tagges de ukritisk (dovent?) 
som highway=cycleway

Jeg mener, at der i highway=cycling, ligger et uheldigt signal om, at cyklerne 
har fortrinsret. Jeg mener også, at en ukritisk brug af highway=footway, er 
uheldig, idet der ligger et signal om, at stien er asfalteret eller 
flisebelagt. Rundt omkring i verden er der slet ikke enighed om, hvad en 
footway er. Desuden knyttes disse tags desværre ofte til adgangsforhold, selv 
om der er meget stor forskel, lige fra den tyske generelle tilladelse til at 
cykle på fortove til den engelske Rights of Way.

Jeg støtter mig til denne side: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Path_examples som ser ud til at være mere 
objektiv end diverse guru-blogs samt den danske version, 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Da:Map_Features#Stier hvor der er taget 
hensyn til den danske færdselslov.

Hilsen,
sba-dk

Fra: Niels Elgaard Larsen
Sendt: 12. november 2017 22:33
Til: OpenStreetMap Denmark
Emne: [Talk-dk] Cykelstier versus gangstier

Jeg har på det sidste lavet en del billeder til Mapillary på cykel.

En ting jeg har bemærket er, at mange af de stier som er tagget
highway=cycleway slet ikke er cykelstier.

Nogle af dem er gangstier, fx skiltet som
https://www.retsinformation.dk/image.aspx?id=180061=CH219_15_131.png
og med cykelbarrierer.

Jeg mener at det så må være highway=path, eller highway=footway
med bicycle=no.

Dog har jeg brugt bicycle=dismount, der hvor fx en cykelrute passerer
under togspor, hvor det ikke er tilladt at cykle (fx Parkruten)

Men så er der fællestier:

https://www.retsinformation.dk/image.aspx?id=180061=CH219_15_134.png

Jeg mener ikke at highway=cycleway er korrekt for fællesstier.

Det må være highway=path

Og kan man så have:
bycycle=designated,foot=designated,motor_vehicle=no,horse=no
?
Altså have to gange designated?
Eller er det bedre med bycycle=yes,foot=yes, motor_vehicle=no,horse=no ?

Endelig er der stier, der ikke er mærket med skilte, bemaling på
asfalten osv. Hvis det ikke er tydeligt, at det er cykelstier, mener
jeg, at de bare skal tagges som highway=path og ikke highway=cycleway.



-- 
Niels Elgaard Larsen

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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu

On Monday 13 November 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Christoph, thanks for clarifying.  I should have been a bit more
> careful with that word.  Could you clarify one thing - if wiki is not
> authoritative for deprecation, than what is?  "Community consensus
> that something is not to be used" has to be documented somewhere,
> right?

No, it does not have to.  It is the nature of most societies that not 
all social rules that exist are also codified.  The process of becoming 
a member of the OSM community to a large part consists of becoming 
familiar with and developing an intuitive understanding of the 
unwritten rules.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-dk] Cykelstier versus gangstier

2017-11-13 Per discussione Niels Elgaard Larsen

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:09:35 +0100
Michael Andersen  wrote:

> Efter oprindeligt at have brugt highway=path;bicycle=designated etc
> til alle "cykelstier"  (jeg brugte JOSM fra starten) har jeg nu i
> mange år brugt highway=cycleway også for fællesstier. (Det der
> endeligt fik mig til at skifte var
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333)
> 
> Bemærk at man (i DK) må gå på cykelstier, medmindre der er en
> særskilt gangsti ved siden af. 

Færdselsloven siger:

==
 Gående, som benytter cykelsti, må ikke være til ulempe for kørende på
 cykelstien. 
==

Hvorimod det om fællesstier hedder
(https://www.retsinformation.dk/forms/r0710.aspx?id=180061):

==
Trafikanter på fællessti skal udvise gensidig hensynsfuldhed, jf.
færdselslovens § 3, stk. 1. 
==

Det synes jeg er en ret afgørende forskel.

Dels undgår jeg normalt at få på cykelstier, i alt fald hvis der er
megen trafik, fordi man så skal hoppe og springe hver gang, der kommer
en cykel.

Dels fordi når man cykler på sådan en sti, så er det godt at vide, at
man skal tage hensyn til gående. Og nogen gang stå af cyklen undervejs.

På en af mine mapillary-ture cyklede jeg faktisk på noget, som var en
cykelsti i OSM og mødte en gående kvinde med en lille hund. Hunden
hoppede ud foran mig. Heldigvis kørte jeg meget roligt af hensyn til
Mapillary-billederne og nåede at stoppe, men jeg var ikke stolt af
situationen. Især ikke da jeg fandt ud af, at det ikke var en cykelsti.

Desuden så kan vi ikke regne med at udlændinge og ruteberegnere kender
den danske færdselslov.

> Derfor må highway=cycleway i praksis
> betragtes som værende kun "primært" cykelsti og ikke udelukkende
> cykelsti og derfra er der ikke langt til at kunne bruge tagget også
> selvom der er skilte med både cykel og fodgængere.
> 
> Bemærk også at highway=path;... versionen kræver mindst 3 tags og at 
> highway=cycleway kun kræver et tag (og derfor er langt mere
> overskueligt)
> 
> Bemærk også at mange bruger highway=path udelukkende til trampestier
> og lignende "mindre formelle stier"
> 
> Bemærk også at hvor man med highway=cycleway (i praksis) har et
> implicit foot=yes, har man med highway=footway ikke et implicit
> bicycle=yes.
> 
> 
> ___
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> Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk

-- 
Niels

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Re: [Talk-cz] Hlášení budov (Was: Fungující transformace z Křováka!)

2017-11-13 Per discussione Marián Kyral


-- Původní e-mail --
Od: majka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 10:38:22
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Hlášení budov (Was: Fungující transformace z
Křováka!)
"
Tahle verze mi došla o chvilku později, než jsem to napsala.
Tak nějak jsem doufala, že takoví borci mezi námi už nejsou, ale opravdu je
tohle záležitost traceru? Protože bych předpokládala, že takhle přidané
"budovy" se tam budou objevovat ručně z KM, tracer už je přece jen vyšší
level. 



"



Tak záleží zda má ta budova i ref:ruian:building a další údaje z ruianu.
Pokud ano, tak to šlo buď přes tracer, nebo údaje vložili přes PointInfo.
Ale proč by to někdo takto dělat fakt netuším.




Jestli si večer vzpomenu, tak se na to mrknu a zkusím upravit Tracer tak,
aby nahlášené, zbourané (černé budovy) odmítl natrasovat. Případně vyhodil
nějaké varování a požádal o souhlas.




"

Bylo by třeba osvětu - KM už dávno není dobrý způsob, jak "najít" budovu. U
nové výstavby ve většině případů není pozemek pod budovou samostatná
parcela, jsou to spíš výjimky. A spousta toho, co kdysi byl pozemek pod
budovou je už dávno parkoviště...

 


""




2017-11-13 10:24 GMT+01:00 jzvc :"
To by sice bylo krasny, ale to bys neco takovyho musela mit jako podklad, 
pricemz predpokladam, ze spousta lidi (ktery ani nechodej sem) to dela
proste tak, ze oklipou vsechno co v KM vypada jako budova.
"



"



Stejně mi přijde zvláštní, že by to takto někdo fakt dělal.




Marián



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Re: [Talk-it] Oratorio


Il 13/11/2017 11:31, demon.box ha scritto:

ciao, quando si tratta di mappare un oratorio (parrocchiale) ho spesso
trovato mappata l'area come

leisure=recreation_ground

e poi eventualmente edifici, campo da calcio, parco giochi, ecc.

ma se per mancanza di tempo oppure perchÃš fisicamente non esiste altro oltre
all'edificio con scritto "Oratorio tal dei tali" volessi mappare appunto
soltanto l'edificio come lo taggo?
con un qualche valore del tag amenity?
che dite?

grazie

--enrico


uesta è la mia richiesta/risosta alla discussione in merito:

http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Taggare-Canonica-e-Oratorio-td5861679.html#a5861688


E qui il risultato, uno dei vari, non bello, ma attualmente così è:

http://osm.org/go/0IFKB9_hi?node=2338572270

--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

Christoph, thanks for clarifying.  I should have been a bit more careful
with that word.  Could you clarify one thing - if wiki is not authoritative
for deprecation, than what is?  "Community consensus that something is not
to be used" has to be documented somewhere, right?

Per https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits

*Automated edits* and *semi-automated edits* (sometimes called *mechanical
edits*) are changes made to OpenStreetMap content with no or very limited
human oversight, including those made by bots
, algorithmic processes, imports
 and also major
changes made using general-purpose map editing tools such as JOSM
.


This differs from your own definition. The wiki definition does not discuss
which features are being edited, or how I pick what to edit. It
concentrates on the oversight - if I oversee each change one by one, and
pay attention to it, by the above definition it is not an automated, nor a
mechanical edit. A bot is an automated edit. Loading things into JOSM, and
renaming 100 instances of tag "foo" into "bar" is a semi automated
(mechanical) edit, because both lack oversight for each change.

JD, The whole layer=0 conversation started with this message:

I have copied some of the JOSM & deprecation autofixes as Sophox tasks
> (quick fixes page). *Which of them would be good for the first review? *It
> should probably be more obvious, like replacing identical
> maxspeed:forward+maxspeed:backward with maxspeed tag, or removing
> layer=0, etc.
>
> As you can see, it was a call for a balanced discussion on what would be
good to fix, in a way Map Roulette and other fixing tools do it.  Instead,
we are now discussing if layer=0 and semantics.  I agree that using words
correctly is paramount to understanding each other, but if we target one
example, and blow it into multiple messages, it helps no one.


> I only think I will print Frederick's mails, and regularly read them again
> and again.
>
Frederick's mail have been very passionate, and they would be great for
uniting people for a cause, but I don't think they were as productive or
consensus reaching as some other emails. Vilifying your opponent does not
help the discussion - we are talking about ideas and tools, not persons.
Otherwise we end up with Facebook's opinion bubble, where both sides sit in
their own hall of mirrors, and don't try to reach any mutual understanding.


> I will not answer anymore to this thread. It feels too much like a
> scientific paper submission: If you answer to every objection, even
> sometimes with halt-truth, there will come a time when there is no more to
> say.
>

Using a word with a slightly different meaning is not the same as a
half-truth. Half-truth implies a lie. If you think I have lied or mislead,
say so, and explain where. Otherwise, this is baseless accusations.
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Re: [Talk-dk] Cykelstier versus gangstier

2017-11-13 Per discussione Michael Andersen

On mandag den 13. november 2017 11.18.52 CET Jørgen Elgaard Larsen wrote:
> Michael Andersen skrev:
> > Efter oprindeligt at have brugt highway=path;bicycle=designated etc til
> > alle "cykelstier"  (jeg brugte JOSM fra starten) har jeg nu i mange år
> > brugt highway=cycleway også for fællesstier. (Det der endeligt fik mig
> > til at skifte var https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333)
> 
> Der er jeg nok mest enig i wislander's kommentar til samme blog post:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333#comment32877

Jeg kan godt følge den et stykke af vejen, men må stadig erklære mig mest enig 
med Richard. Bemærk iøvrigt at Richard er en ganske prominent figur i OSM: Han 
står bag Potlatch og måske mindre kendt https://cycle.travel, som er grunden 
til ovennævnte blogindlæg. I et blogindlæg i dag nævner han iøvrigt " the 
often conflicting and confusing tag soup in OSM."  Jeg ser ham ofte på IRC og 
får indtryk af at det kan være ganske frustrerende at forsøge at lave 
fornuftige ruter ud af OSM :-).
> 
> 
> Hvis der går en fin, bred, asfalteret sti igennem en park, men den ikke
> er skiltet som cykelsti, så er det efter min mening stadig en
> highway=path. Der er jo netop _ikke_ noget, der siger, at det særligt er
> en cykelsti.
> 
> Ja, man kan cykle på den. Men man kan også gå, ride, rulleskøjte osv. på
> den.
> 
> At tagge den specifikt som cycleway giver lige så meget mening som at
> tagge den som ridesti, rulleskøjtebane eller gangsti.

Jeg har tagget tusindvis af stier og finder at det (under danske forhold) netop 
 
kan give ganske god mening at vurdere en sti værende primært cykelsti (også 
selvom det ikke specifikt er skiltet). Bemærk at bare fordi den er tagget som 
"cycleway" er der ikke noget der forhindrer at man kan gå eller løbe på 
rulleskøjter på den.
Det  giver også  god mening at bruge highway=footway, hvor man kan vurdere en 
sti som værende primært en gangsti (f.eks. på kirkegårde eller flisebelagte 
stier rundt om huse)
Jeg kender også til adskillige eksempler på ridestier (der er ikke noget der 
forhindrer en i at gå eller cykle på en sådan, men man skal bare regne med at 
de er trådt godt op og ikke specielt egnede til det)

> 
> > Bemærk også at highway=path;... versionen kræver mindst 3 tags og at
> > highway=cycleway kun kræver et tag (og derfor er langt mere overskueligt)
> 
> Man kunne også tagge den med highway=service. Det kræver også kun et
> tag. Og man må både gå og cykle på en vej.

highway=service tillader motorkøretøjer. Det gør highway=cycleway eller 
highway=footway ikke.
> 
> Men det vil stadig være misvisende.
> 
> - Jørgen
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une application pour visualiser le cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione albanm

Nous avons surement des choses à améliorer, je prend bonne note et je vais
faire un passage là dessus très vite. Nous ne respectons peut-être pas
encore à la lettre le formalisme attendu, mais nous sommes de bonne volonté
sur le sujet et les mentions sont déjà relativement claires il me semble.

Indépendamment de cette petite application particulière nous maintenons une
page des sources de données utilisées par nos services :
https://koumoul.com/data-providers

Nous ne croisons pas les bases de données OSM. La fusion des sources est
uniquement effectuée à l'affichage sous forme de layers autonomes. En gros
nous utilisons OSM classiquement comme fond de carte.



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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

On Monday 13 November 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> The wiki deprecation only lists one =no:  highway=no, but we are not
> discussing that one yet --
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Deprecated_features
>
> I used the word "deprecated" in a more general term, to mean anything
> that community has decided to phase out, such as JOSM autofixes and
> deprecation list.

For the record (so people reading this later do not get a wrong 
impression) - 'deprecated' in the OSM context means that there is a 
community consensus that something is not to be used any more in new 
mapping.  The wiki, editor presets etc. are not authoritive in that 
regard and deprecation does not supersede the freedom of mappers to map 
how they see fit (in other words: it is not forbidden to use deprecated 
tags).

And automatic fixes in JOSM are not normally mechanical edits because 
they are only applied to features that are (manually) edited otherwise.  
Applying the same 'fixes' mechanically to all features with a certain 
tag however is a mechanical edit and needs to be discussed on a 
per-case basis - always, no matter how trivial, useful or obvious they 
might seem to anyone.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[Talk-cl] Division Politico Administrativa (DPA): distritos censales

2017-11-13 Per discussione Juan Pizarro

Estimados,

Es un gusto escribirles.

Estoy interesado en saber si se estan haciendo esfuerzos para agregar los
distritos censales a OSM, como se hizo hace algun tiempo con provincias y
comunas [1].

Los distritos censales aparecen nombrados en [2] y al parecer estan
disponibles en [3] pero no aparece la licencia.

Me gustaria saber si alguien ya tiene estos datos con una licencia
compatible a OSM o sabe que gestiones y con quien se deben hacer?, para
partipar en el proyecto de la importacion de estos.

Saludos
Gracias

[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chile:Map_Features#Division_Politico_Administrativa_.28DPA.29
[2]
http://historico.ine.cl/canales/chile_estadistico/territorio/division_politico_administrativa/pdf/DPA_COMPLETA.pdf
[3] http://datos.cedeus.cl/layers/geonode:distritos_precensales_chile
-- 

*Juan Pizarro*
*Mob:*
*E-Mail:*
+56 9 75891972
jpizar...@gmail.com 

-
OpenStreetMap.cl: El Mapa Libre del Mundo
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

2017-11-13 Per discussione JB

I only think I will print Frederick's mails, and regularly read them 
again and again.
Deprecated implies «bad, should not exist in OSM database, no one 
reviewed this object for the last years». It has very strong 
implications in OSM vocabulary. Using it here would have the effect to 
readers «Yes, if it's deprecated, of course it should be deleted». No, 
they are not deprecated, they only are useless to software parsers. They 
may be useful for contributors.
I will not answer anymore to this thread. It feels too much like a 
scientific paper submission: If you answer to every objection, even 
sometimes with halt-truth, there will come a time when there is no more 
to say.

JB.

Le 13/11/2017 à 11:27, Yuri Astrakhan a écrit :
JB, try to avoid swearword outburst, not helpful. Are you taking issue 
with the word "deprecated"?   The proper word should probably have 
been "unnecessary" to discuss the layer=0, per JOSM's naming:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/browser/josm/trunk/data/validator/unnecessary.mapcss 



The wiki deprecation only lists one =no:  highway=no, but we are not 
discussing that one yet -- 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Deprecated_features


I used the word "deprecated" in a more general term, to mean anything 
that community has decided to phase out, such as JOSM autofixes and 
deprecation list.


I have no   clue what you meant otherwise about mixing issues. I am 
attempting to answer every possible question being raised. So far 
there has been a few very constructive and helpful emails, and lots of 
sidetracks. If you want to stay focused, re-read my initial post, as 
well as my most latest post with the new tool capabilities, or just 
read the Sophox wiki page and try to follow the style of Simon & 
Tobias - both have raised valid objections, and in both cases it 
resulted in tool's improvements.


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:05 AM, JB > wrote:


Le 13/11/2017 à 01:16, Yuri Astrakhan a écrit :

You are right that =0 and =no seem like nobrainers, but if we
have listed them as deprecated, we should not use them.

Deprecated? Where did you find that?
(Swearwords somewhere here. Did someone already said that you mix
issues?)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une application pour visualiser le cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione Christian Quest

Belle réutilisation de données opendata (cadastre) et de données libres
(OSM) !

A propos du "on ne peut rien sourcer du tout", c'est une remarque sur le
fait que votre site ne mentionne pas clairement les sources de données,
alors que c'est obligatoire aussi bien pour le cadastre que pour OSM:

- pour le cadastre, la licence ouverte impose de mentionner source ET le
millésime.

- pour OSM, la licence ODbL impose de mentionner la source (c'est fait dans
le coin de la carte, avec le lien qui va bien), mais aussi la licence sous
laquelle les données sont disponibles (ODbL 1.0) sans oublier de partager à
l'identique les bases de données dérivées, c'est à dire tout mélange avec
d'autres données.

Droits de réutiliser... mais aussi devoirs associés ;)


Le 13 novembre 2017 à 10:16, albanm  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> Je suis co-fondateur de Koumoul et c'est moi qui ai travaillé sur cette
> carte, nous sommes tombés sur ce fil de discussion et je vais en profiter
> pour éclaircir quelques petites choses.
>
> Sur cette carte nous avons fourni un travail d'intégration et d'exposition
> Web, nous n'avons fait aucun travail de fond sur la donnée.
>
> Les données cadastrales sont celles-ci :
> https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/cadastre/
>
> Et uniquement les couches parcelles, bâtiments et communes, pas encore
> feuilles et sections. Comme traitement nous faisons juste un peu de parsing
> des métadonnées et des transformations d'un format à un autre.
>
> Les données OSM en fond sont celles packagées par openmaptiles.
>
> Le tout est assemblé par un style mapbox basé sur le style Klokantech-Basic
> et servi par notre petit serveur de données géographiques :
> https://koumoul.com/s/tileserver/ (le notre dans le sens de l'instance pas
> du code source, tileserver-gl étant un projet open-source publié par
> Klokantech).
>
> Plus une appli cliente qui intègre ça avec geoloc, recherche par adresse,
> etc.
>
> Je vais mettre certaines de vos remarques dans mes todos. Je suis d'accord
> avec votre conclusion : "on ne peut rien sourcer du tout". C'est une
> nouvelle exposition de sources déjà connues, pas une nouvelle source de
> données. Mais je me dis que visualiser très vite sur son mobile les
> parcelles d'un voisinage n'est pas dénué d'intérêt pour tout le monde. Et
> le
> tooltip donne assez d'éléments (commune + code section + numéro parcelle)
> pour retrouver l'info dans le cadastre officiel.
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-dk] Cykelstier versus gangstier

2017-11-13 Per discussione Uffe Kousgaard


On 13-11-2017 11:18, Jørgen Elgaard Larsen wrote:


Hvis der går en fin, bred, asfalteret sti igennem en park, men den 
ikke er skiltet som cykelsti, så er det efter min mening stadig en 
highway=path. Der er jo netop _ikke_ noget, der siger, at det særligt 
er en cykelsti.


Ja, man kan cykle på den. Men man kan også gå, ride, rulleskøjte osv. 
på den.


Og er der ingen skilte overhovedet, så kan man også køre i bil på den. 
Hvis der ellers er plads i bredden.


mvh
Uffe Kousgaard


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[Talk-it] Oratorio

2017-11-13 Per discussione demon.box

ciao, quando si tratta di mappare un oratorio (parrocchiale) ho spesso
trovato mappata l'area come 

leisure=recreation_ground

e poi eventualmente edifici, campo da calcio, parco giochi, ecc.

ma se per mancanza di tempo oppure perchè fisicamente non esiste altro oltre
all'edificio con scritto "Oratorio tal dei tali" volessi mappare appunto
soltanto l'edificio come lo taggo?
con un qualche valore del tag amenity?
che dite?

grazie

--enrico




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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

JB, try to avoid swearword outburst, not helpful.  Are you taking issue
with the word "deprecated"?   The proper word should probably have been
"unnecessary" to discuss the layer=0, per JOSM's naming:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/browser/josm/trunk/data/validator/unnecessary.mapcss

The wiki deprecation only lists one =no:  highway=no, but we are not
discussing that one yet --
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Deprecated_features

I used the word "deprecated" in a more general term, to mean anything that
community has decided to phase out, such as JOSM autofixes and deprecation
list.

I have no   clue what you meant otherwise about mixing issues. I am
attempting to answer every possible question being raised. So far there has
been a few very constructive and helpful emails, and lots of sidetracks. If
you want to stay focused, re-read my initial post, as well as my most
latest post with the new tool capabilities, or just read the Sophox wiki
page and try to follow the style of Simon & Tobias - both have raised valid
objections, and in both cases it resulted in tool's improvements.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:05 AM, JB  wrote:

> Le 13/11/2017 à 01:16, Yuri Astrakhan a écrit :
>
>> You are right that =0 and =no seem like nobrainers, but if we have listed
>> them as deprecated, we should not use them.
>>
> Deprecated? Where did you find that?
> (Swearwords somewhere here. Did someone already said that you mix issues?)
>
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Re: [Talk-it] emergency=access_point

2017-11-13 Per discussione demon.box

Ottimo, grazie!
Vedi che non sapevo nemmeno esistesse ;-)

--enrico




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Re: [Talk-dk] Cykelstier versus gangstier

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jørgen Elgaard Larsen


Michael Andersen skrev:

Efter oprindeligt at have brugt highway=path;bicycle=designated etc til alle
"cykelstier"  (jeg brugte JOSM fra starten) har jeg nu i mange år brugt
highway=cycleway også for fællesstier. (Det der endeligt fik mig til at skifte
var https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333)


Der er jeg nok mest enig i wislander's kommentar til samme blog post: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333#comment32877



Hvis der går en fin, bred, asfalteret sti igennem en park, men den ikke 
er skiltet som cykelsti, så er det efter min mening stadig en 
highway=path. Der er jo netop _ikke_ noget, der siger, at det særligt er 
en cykelsti.


Ja, man kan cykle på den. Men man kan også gå, ride, rulleskøjte osv. på 
den.


At tagge den specifikt som cycleway giver lige så meget mening som at 
tagge den som ridesti, rulleskøjtebane eller gangsti.



Bemærk også at highway=path;... versionen kræver mindst 3 tags og at
highway=cycleway kun kræver et tag (og derfor er langt mere overskueligt)


Man kunne også tagge den med highway=service. Det kræver også kun et 
tag. Og man må både gå og cykle på en vej.


Men det vil stadig være misvisende.

- Jørgen

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Re: [Talk-cz] Soukrome bazeny - Re: Uživatel fell3 - podivné mapování

Nezastřelili, ale buď ho trefilo nebo jsem ho těžce urazila a na Čechy se
vybodne, když ho tu nedokážeme ocenit. Poslední editace před 5 dny,
opravený ten jediný bazén. Jedním okem pořád koukám, jestli se znovu
nerozjede.

Možná by stálo za to začít přemýšlet o tom, co s těmi jeho změnami. Sám to
neopraví, protože podle mého neví jak a neví co (absolutně nebude mít
přehled o tom, co kde všechno udělal). Jen tak se na to vybodnout se mi
nechce.
Jsou to extrémní čísla - počet změn (sad změn) jen ČR: 1 010 288 (40 532)

Samozřejmě se to dá nějak vyselektovat přes overpass turbo, ale ani to není
jednoduché řešení. Spíš to vidím na prohrabání se extraktem pomocí osmosis,
rozdělit podle území a pak to po částech projít a zkontrolovat v JOSM.

za mě je třeba prohlédnout:
- ty bazény, rozhodnout co s nimi (pokud je to jediná značka, vymazat nebo
nacpat všude private)
- projít jím přidané cesty (tedy ulice), dost toho jsou také soukromé
vjezdy za plotem
- zastávky MHD - je třeba zkontrolovat Jihlavu + kdekoli odmazával
highway=bus_stop
- zjistit, co tam nacpal dalšího

2017-11-12 19:21 GMT+01:00 jzvc :

> Cus, jen takovej dotaz, uz ste ho zastrelili? Prave sem narazil na
> zeleznici se kterema sem se ... aby sedeli na metr a je to cely zmrveny.
> A to predpokladam ze se da rict o vsech jeho editacich. Bylo by treba mu
> nakopnout rit a to zcela in natura.
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[Talk-it] OSM Geo week

2017-11-13 Per discussione Alessandro Palmas

Ciao lista,
non mi pare siano passati mail sulla OSM Geo Week (1)
In Italia ci sono eventi organizzati dagli amici di Polimappers (2)
e di Mastergiscience di UniPD (3). Ho ricevuto info anche da Unibo
(di cui non conoscevo ancora le attività) (4).
Ma OpenStreetMap Italia non poteva stare ferma. Eccovi il primo
dei task che proponiamo http://osmit-tm.wmflabs.org/project/28 per
mappare l'edificato in una zona della Marche colpita dal terremoto
del 2016.
Non è un esercizio fatto tanto per mappare qualcosa ma è per
aiutare il progetto Ricostruzione Trasparente che effettua
monitoraggio civico delle spese per la ricostruzione. Il task ha
riquadri di circa 450m di lato. Per chi non è esperto può chiedere
qui in lista.

L'hastag da usare (inserito automaticamente nel commento) è #osmgeoweek2017

Per chi abita nelle zone vicine a dove si svolgono gli appuntamenti
elencati sopra vi invito a partecipare, potrete conoscere nuovi
progetti e nuovi utenti che si avvicinano a OSM. A Padova potete
vedere il nutrito programma che comprende anche diversi workshop.

Happy mapping
Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

1) http://osmgeoweek.org/
2) http://osmgeoweek.org/event/polimappers/
3)
http://www.mastergiscience.it/it_IT/2017/10/24/settimana-della-consapevolezza-geografica/
4)
http://www.magazine.unibo.it/archivio/2017/11/10/mapathon-unibo-levento-di-mappatura-partecipata

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Re: [Talk-cz] Hlášení budov (Was: Fungující transformace z Křováka!)

Tahle verze mi došla o chvilku později, než jsem to napsala.
Tak nějak jsem doufala, že takoví borci mezi námi už nejsou, ale opravdu je
tohle záležitost traceru? Protože bych předpokládala, že takhle přidané
"budovy" se tam budou objevovat ručně z KM, tracer už je přece jen vyšší
level.

Bylo by třeba osvětu - KM už dávno není dobrý způsob, jak "najít" budovu. U
nové výstavby ve většině případů není pozemek pod budovou samostatná
parcela, jsou to spíš výjimky. A spousta toho, co kdysi byl pozemek pod
budovou je už dávno parkoviště...

2017-11-13 10:24 GMT+01:00 jzvc :
>
> To by sice bylo krasny, ale to bys neco takovyho musela mit jako podklad,
> pricemz predpokladam, ze spousta lidi (ktery ani nechodej sem) to dela
> proste tak, ze oklipou vsechno co v KM vypada jako budova.
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Hlášení budov (Was: Fungující transformace z Křováka!)

2017-11-13 Per discussione jzvc


Dne 12.11.2017 v 21:12 majka.zem+t...@gmail.com napsal(a):

Nestačí jen udělat to nahlášení (co se nikam nehlásí)?
Pak se ty budovy ukazují černě a mělo by stačit používat hlavu při trasování.


To by sice bylo krasny, ale to bys neco takovyho musela mit jako 
podklad, pricemz predpokladam, ze spousta lidi (ktery ani nechodej sem) 
to dela proste tak, ze oklipou vsechno co v KM vypada jako budova.




12. listopadu 2017 20:48:17 SEČ, Jan Martinec  napsal:

Jo, to by se hodilo. Jeden barák u Týna jsem se chystal smazat potřetí,
než
mi došlo, odkud se furt zjevuje (reálně už tam není minimálně desítky
let).
Nechal jsem ho tam tedy, přetagovaný jako demolished:building, ale
připadá
mi to trochu jako ugly hack.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une application pour visualiser le cadastre

2017-11-13 Per discussione albanm

Bonjour,

Je suis co-fondateur de Koumoul et c'est moi qui ai travaillé sur cette
carte, nous sommes tombés sur ce fil de discussion et je vais en profiter
pour éclaircir quelques petites choses.

Sur cette carte nous avons fourni un travail d'intégration et d'exposition
Web, nous n'avons fait aucun travail de fond sur la donnée.

Les données cadastrales sont celles-ci :
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/cadastre/

Et uniquement les couches parcelles, bâtiments et communes, pas encore
feuilles et sections. Comme traitement nous faisons juste un peu de parsing
des métadonnées et des transformations d'un format à un autre.

Les données OSM en fond sont celles packagées par openmaptiles.

Le tout est assemblé par un style mapbox basé sur le style Klokantech-Basic
et servi par notre petit serveur de données géographiques :
https://koumoul.com/s/tileserver/ (le notre dans le sens de l'instance pas
du code source, tileserver-gl étant un projet open-source publié par
Klokantech).

Plus une appli cliente qui intègre ça avec geoloc, recherche par adresse,
etc.

Je vais mettre certaines de vos remarques dans mes todos. Je suis d'accord
avec votre conclusion : "on ne peut rien sourcer du tout". C'est une
nouvelle exposition de sources déjà connues, pas une nouvelle source de
données. Mais je me dis que visualiser très vite sur son mobile les
parcelles d'un voisinage n'est pas dénué d'intérêt pour tout le monde. Et le
tooltip donne assez d'éléments (commune + code section + numéro parcelle)
pour retrouver l'info dans le cadastre officiel.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en communs

2017-11-13 Per discussione Vincent Privat

Les erreurs de traduction n'ont pas à être signalées, n'importe qui peut
les corriger sur https://translations.launchpad.net/josm
Attention, on vient de rajouter "place=quarter", il faudra que la
traduction distingue les 2 à l'IHM:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/15430
A+
Vincent

Le 13 novembre 2017 à 09:48, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

> Note: neighborhood est utilisé aussi dans le monde plus rural en France
> pour désigner des "lotissements" au sein de villages qui n'ont pas de réels
> "quartiers" au sens strict, ou pour des ZAC (je ne parle pas des
> landuse=industrial ou commercial concernant les zones artisanales ou zones
> industrielles).
> Ce n'est pas évident car on ne traduit pas que pour la France, mais pour
> tout pays francophone (donc attention notamment au Canada ou la
> Belgique) ou même pour le monde entier avec juste une traduction française
> qui n'est pas nécessairement liée aux statuts administratifs français.
>
> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 09:44, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>
>> Ce n'est pas si faux que ça, surtout en français où "quartier" a un sens
>> plus étendu et plus administratif que le "neighborhood" anglais qui n'est
>> qu'une partie d'un quartier ("city district" en anglais) et correspond plus
>> à un petit "bloc" ou un "pâté de maisons" en français et n'a pas de statut
>> administratif réel non plus.. Le type "neighborhood" a été utilisé aussi en
>> France pour des "sous-quartiers" (donc des parties de plus grands quartiers
>> administratifs).
>> Si "voisinage" te choque, ce n'est pas "quartier" mais "sous-quartier"
>> qui serait plus approprié.
>>
>> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 09:25, Gaël Simon  a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Bonjour,
>>> Même si je suis légèrement hors sujet, où signaler la traduction erronée
>>> dans JOSM du modèle d’attributs Neighborhood, traduit en Voisinage et non
>>> Quartier ?
>>>
>>> Gaël
>>>
>>> Le 13 nov. 2017 à 01:22, thevenon.jul...@free.fr a écrit :
>>>
>>> A priori la traduction est complète (aux erreurs de double apostrophe
>>> prêt à voir au prochain Jenkins)
>>>
>>> Bonne nuit.
>>>
>>> Julien / quicky
>>> PS: désolé pour le top posting, problème avec zimbra sur mon smartphone
>>>
>>> - Mail d'origine -
>>> De: Vincent Privat 
>>> À: Discussions sur OSM en français 
>>> Envoyé: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:29:16 +0100 (CET)
>>> Objet: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en
>>> communs
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> les explications pour traduire JOSM peuvent se trouver ici:
>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Translations#Softwaretranslation
>>>
>>> S'il y a une chose à retenir, c'est que les apostrophes doivent être
>>> doublées.
>>>
>>> Les traductions sont vérifiées automatiquement chaque matin ici:
>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/jenkins/job/JOSM-i18n/lastBuil
>>> d/parsed_console/
>>> L'erreur la plus fréquente est l'oubli des doubles apostrophes, j'en ai
>>> corrigé plusieurs ce matin.
>>>
>>> Ensuite les traductions sont prises en compte en fin de développement, en
>>> général le dernier week-end de chaque mois.
>>>
>>> A+
>>> Vincent
>>>
>>> > Le 12 novembre 2017 à 11:59, marc marc  a
>>> écrit :
>>> >
>>> > Bonjour,
>>> >
>>> >> Le 12. 11. 17 à 11:36, Gaël Simon a écrit :
>>> >> y a-t-il quelque part un guide de la traduction JOSM pour débutants ?
>>> >> Le 10 nov. 2017 à 20:06, Vincent Privat a écrit :
>>> >> https://translations.launchpad.net/josm/trunk/+
>>> > pots/josm/fr/+translate?show=untranslated
>>> >
>>> > clic sur le lien de Vincent
>>> > clic en haut à droite pour s'enregistrer ou se connecter
>>> > ensuite tu as la liste des bouts de phrase à traduire.
>>> > tout en bas à droite "sauver"
>>> >
>>> > Cordialement,
>>> > Marc
>>> > ___
>>> > Talk-fr mailing list
>>> > Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-fr mailing list
>>> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

2017-11-13 Per discussione Miroslav Suchy

Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a):
>So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers
>on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app.
>Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.


Done.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Addresses=revision=1524281=1513066

Mirek

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] intersection looks very wrong -> use PICC with JOSM

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jakka

Thx for the reply,
Was working on it this WE several houres allready and saved it offline.
Will checked again 'with after an good night sleep) and hopefully I can
uploaded all changes at once.
The PT relation will all be destroyed, could not keep the highway with
them on it.

Op 13/11/2017 om 0:58 schreef André Pirard:

On 2017-11-11 13:49, Jakka wrote:

The middle intersection looks very wrong. Want to redesign it. There
for need to know if the aerial image on "Wallononmap" are still
corresponding with what is out there ? Or are there other images ?
The same with intersection north and south of it I need to connect
directly good on those also.
Check this in editor:
1)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.543085562147645/5.4872411965277195
Check a routeplanner
2)
https://www.mapcat.com/directions/car#map=18.9/50.54324/5.48770=50.54312,5.48745;50.54332,5.48772
check aerial image I want to work with. No Mapillary image yet.
3)
http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap#SHARE=5DB543FAA0BC7C61E053D0AFA49DE388#CTX=DDB

The problems are:

* That the roads are drawn too wide and one cannot see the turns they
make to enter or leave the main road; "we should not tag for the
renderer" they say but report the problem to them. But maybe
changing the road types as soon as they start turning and not when
they enter the side road would help.
* That the mappers did not use JOSM+PICC (rarely needing the
orthophotos because PICC is rarely wrong), they used Potlatch and
ID; but in this case the photos are necessary; using BE SPW(allonie)
2012-2013 aerial imagery is clearer that 2015 which is clearer that
2016.

*PLEASE USE JOSM + PICC*: I have spent much time getting them working. I
have been repeatedly laughed at when I was requesting the SPW to correct
their projection bug and I kept hearing "we cannot copy yet" which is
not what we are doing.
If I had been heard, we would have been able to map Wallonia correctly
since 2010.
I am doing *a lot* of corrections (Jakka seems too), often moving houses
and other elements by 2, 3, ... 5m or more, adding numbers, using
Improve Way Accuracy mode to straighten roads, etc.
With JOSM a house is drawn, including increasing number, in a single
click. Correcting a badly mapped one takes much longer and one feels
like erasing it.

I doesn't look like this intersection changed over the years nor lately
(latest OSM topology around 2013).

Here is how you see that intersection with JOSM and PICC:

route du Condroz PICC

route du Condroz aérienne

You can see that PICC is right.
The OSM two lower main lanes are offset north by more than 2m in the
middle and to the right.
The upper one makes a bump that it shouldn't do, it should go straight on.
The turns going diagonally make no sense. They should go straight and
then make a sharper turn.
Like the one coming from the left: it should be passing somewhere over
the stopped car.
They should certainly not connect (on a dot in common) with the other
ways they cross !!!
==> beware not to destroy relations when changing those dots erroneously
belonging to 2 ways:
JOSM will warn you but I'm not sure about the others: they destroyed my
relations.
The yellow, north-south roads are not precisely in the right place either.

Hoping this and the PICC can help,
Cheers
Cordialement,

André.

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Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM

2017-11-13 Per discussione Zdeněk Pražák

díky, uvedený postup pomohl
Pražák
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Jan Martinec 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 9:36:35
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM
"Dne 13.11.2017 v 09:27 Zdeněk Pražák napsal(a):
> otevírám z poslední verze firefoxu

Zkusil bych otevřít https://127.0.0.1:8112/ - pravděpodobně vyskočí
varování o neznámém certifikátu, tam je potřeba přidat výjimku. Pak už
by to mělo fungovat. (technické detaily v
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/10033 ; a nový Chrome to začal
podporovat, protože pro stránky na localhostu přestal kontrolovat
certifikáty)

Zdar,
Honza Piškvor Martinec


> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: majka 
> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> Datum: 13. 11. 2017 9:23:33
> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM
>
>
> Pohled amatéra: z čeho to otvíráš (jaký prohlížeč, jaká verze)?
> Protože dálkové ovládání mi ze staré verze Chromu neběží, musím to
> otvírat z nové verze, které se jinak bráním 
> V té starší verzi blbne otvírání protokolem https, údajně je to u
> víc prohlížečů.
>
> On 13 November 2017 at 09:12, Zdeněk Pražák  > wrote:
>
> JOSM běží, dálkové ovládání je povoleno
>
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>
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

2017-11-13 Per discussione Miroslav Suchy

Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a):
> So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers
> on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app.
> Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.

I agree that you can disable housenumbers for Czechia. When I am using 
StreetComplete and it is asking me about the
housenumber is is because:
* the housenumber is not put inside of the building area and is just slightly 
off. This is because the centroid from
government has incorrect GPS data. In this case (90% of houses without 
housenumber) adding new number is wrong. The
correct way is just to move point with housenumber inside of the area of 
building.
* the house does not have housenumber because it is, in fact, part of the 
building (garage, barn, etc.)

Mirek

P.S. Thank you for StreetComplete. It is the awesome tool.

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Re: [Talk-it] Villaggio turistico

2017-11-13 Per discussione Aury88

scratera wrote
> 
> Andrea Musuruane wrote
>> leisure=resort
>> 
>> Ciao,
>> 
>> Andrea
>> 
>> Il 31/lug/2016 12:50, "scratera" 

>> pizpiz@

>>  ha scritto:
> ...mmm...forse meglio tourism=resort
> paolo

scusate se riapro questa vecchia discussione ma sulla pagina wiki di
tourism=resort dice di usare leisure=resort, quindi volevo chiedere cosa ne
pensavate. io se metto leisure mi aspetto che i servizi del posto siano a
disposizione di chiunque disposto a pagare per l'accesso, non solo dei
clienti che lì pernottano (turisti)...ma questo si può dire anche degli
hotel (quindi tourism=hotel) dove spesso sauna o ristorante/bar sono a
disposizione anche dei clienti non pernottanti. a prescindere da questo a
mio avviso queste strutture hanno una forte connotazione turistica in quanto
offrono prima di tutto  servizi di pernottamento e quindi il tag tourism mi
sembrerebbe più appropriato

Inoltre temo che questo tag derivi da un tag usato principalment in russia
dove così sono state taggate strutture che offrivano servizi di
intrattenimento (e non di pernottamento) o addirittura usato per indicare le
aree residenziali asservite ad alcune basi militari.

onestamente non so più come taggare i resort...mi fido della wiki anche se
non vedo dove i due tag siano stati discussi ed approvati/rifiutati?



-
Ciao,
Aury
--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en communs

2017-11-13 Per discussione Philippe Verdy

Note: neighborhood est utilisé aussi dans le monde plus rural en France
pour désigner des "lotissements" au sein de villages qui n'ont pas de réels
"quartiers" au sens strict, ou pour des ZAC (je ne parle pas des
landuse=industrial ou commercial concernant les zones artisanales ou zones
industrielles).
Ce n'est pas évident car on ne traduit pas que pour la France, mais pour
tout pays francophone (donc attention notamment au Canada ou la
Belgique) ou même pour le monde entier avec juste une traduction française
qui n'est pas nécessairement liée aux statuts administratifs français.

Le 13 novembre 2017 à 09:44, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

> Ce n'est pas si faux que ça, surtout en français où "quartier" a un sens
> plus étendu et plus administratif que le "neighborhood" anglais qui n'est
> qu'une partie d'un quartier ("city district" en anglais) et correspond plus
> à un petit "bloc" ou un "pâté de maisons" en français et n'a pas de statut
> administratif réel non plus.. Le type "neighborhood" a été utilisé aussi en
> France pour des "sous-quartiers" (donc des parties de plus grands quartiers
> administratifs).
> Si "voisinage" te choque, ce n'est pas "quartier" mais "sous-quartier" qui
> serait plus approprié.
>
> Le 13 novembre 2017 à 09:25, Gaël Simon  a écrit
> :
>
>> Bonjour,
>> Même si je suis légèrement hors sujet, où signaler la traduction erronée
>> dans JOSM du modèle d’attributs Neighborhood, traduit en Voisinage et non
>> Quartier ?
>>
>> Gaël
>>
>> Le 13 nov. 2017 à 01:22, thevenon.jul...@free.fr a écrit :
>>
>> A priori la traduction est complète (aux erreurs de double apostrophe
>> prêt à voir au prochain Jenkins)
>>
>> Bonne nuit.
>>
>> Julien / quicky
>> PS: désolé pour le top posting, problème avec zimbra sur mon smartphone
>>
>> - Mail d'origine -
>> De: Vincent Privat 
>> À: Discussions sur OSM en français 
>> Envoyé: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:29:16 +0100 (CET)
>> Objet: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en
>> communs
>>
>> Hello,
>> les explications pour traduire JOSM peuvent se trouver ici:
>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Translations#Softwaretranslation
>>
>> S'il y a une chose à retenir, c'est que les apostrophes doivent être
>> doublées.
>>
>> Les traductions sont vérifiées automatiquement chaque matin ici:
>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/jenkins/job/JOSM-i18n/lastBuil
>> d/parsed_console/
>> L'erreur la plus fréquente est l'oubli des doubles apostrophes, j'en ai
>> corrigé plusieurs ce matin.
>>
>> Ensuite les traductions sont prises en compte en fin de développement, en
>> général le dernier week-end de chaque mois.
>>
>> A+
>> Vincent
>>
>> > Le 12 novembre 2017 à 11:59, marc marc  a
>> écrit :
>> >
>> > Bonjour,
>> >
>> >> Le 12. 11. 17 à 11:36, Gaël Simon a écrit :
>> >> y a-t-il quelque part un guide de la traduction JOSM pour débutants ?
>> >> Le 10 nov. 2017 à 20:06, Vincent Privat a écrit :
>> >> https://translations.launchpad.net/josm/trunk/+
>> > pots/josm/fr/+translate?show=untranslated
>> >
>> > clic sur le lien de Vincent
>> > clic en haut à droite pour s'enregistrer ou se connecter
>> > ensuite tu as la liste des bouts de phrase à traduire.
>> > tout en bas à droite "sauver"
>> >
>> > Cordialement,
>> > Marc
>> > ___
>> > Talk-fr mailing list
>> > Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>> >
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en communs

2017-11-13 Per discussione Philippe Verdy

Ce n'est pas si faux que ça, surtout en français où "quartier" a un sens
plus étendu et plus administratif que le "neighborhood" anglais qui n'est
qu'une partie d'un quartier ("city district" en anglais) et correspond plus
à un petit "bloc" ou un "pâté de maisons" en français et n'a pas de statut
administratif réel non plus.. Le type "neighborhood" a été utilisé aussi en
France pour des "sous-quartiers" (donc des parties de plus grands quartiers
administratifs).
Si "voisinage" te choque, ce n'est pas "quartier" mais "sous-quartier" qui
serait plus approprié.

Le 13 novembre 2017 à 09:25, Gaël Simon  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
> Même si je suis légèrement hors sujet, où signaler la traduction erronée
> dans JOSM du modèle d’attributs Neighborhood, traduit en Voisinage et non
> Quartier ?
>
> Gaël
>
> Le 13 nov. 2017 à 01:22, thevenon.jul...@free.fr a écrit :
>
> A priori la traduction est complète (aux erreurs de double apostrophe prêt
> à voir au prochain Jenkins)
>
> Bonne nuit.
>
> Julien / quicky
> PS: désolé pour le top posting, problème avec zimbra sur mon smartphone
>
> - Mail d'origine -
> De: Vincent Privat 
> À: Discussions sur OSM en français 
> Envoyé: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:29:16 +0100 (CET)
> Objet: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en
> communs
>
> Hello,
> les explications pour traduire JOSM peuvent se trouver ici:
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Translations#Softwaretranslation
>
> S'il y a une chose à retenir, c'est que les apostrophes doivent être
> doublées.
>
> Les traductions sont vérifiées automatiquement chaque matin ici:
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/jenkins/job/JOSM-i18n/
> lastBuild/parsed_console/
> L'erreur la plus fréquente est l'oubli des doubles apostrophes, j'en ai
> corrigé plusieurs ce matin.
>
> Ensuite les traductions sont prises en compte en fin de développement, en
> général le dernier week-end de chaque mois.
>
> A+
> Vincent
>
> > Le 12 novembre 2017 à 11:59, marc marc  a
> écrit :
> >
> > Bonjour,
> >
> >> Le 12. 11. 17 à 11:36, Gaël Simon a écrit :
> >> y a-t-il quelque part un guide de la traduction JOSM pour débutants ?
> >> Le 10 nov. 2017 à 20:06, Vincent Privat a écrit :
> >> https://translations.launchpad.net/josm/trunk/+
> > pots/josm/fr/+translate?show=untranslated
> >
> > clic sur le lien de Vincent
> > clic en haut à droite pour s'enregistrer ou se connecter
> > ensuite tu as la liste des bouts de phrase à traduire.
> > tout en bas à droite "sauver"
> >
> > Cordialement,
> > Marc
> > ___
> > Talk-fr mailing list
> > Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
> >
>
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM

2017-11-13 Per discussione Jan Martinec


Dne 13.11.2017 v 09:27 Zdeněk Pražák napsal(a):

otevírám z poslední verze firefoxu


Zkusil bych otevřít https://127.0.0.1:8112/ - pravděpodobně vyskočí 
varování o neznámém certifikátu, tam je potřeba přidat výjimku. Pak už 
by to mělo fungovat. (technické detaily v
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/10033 ; a nový Chrome to začal 
podporovat, protože pro stránky na localhostu přestal kontrolovat 
certifikáty)


Zdar,
Honza Piškvor Martinec



-- Původní e-mail --
Od: majka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 9:23:33
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM


Pohled amatéra: z čeho to otvíráš (jaký prohlížeč, jaká verze)?
Protože dálkové ovládání mi ze staré verze Chromu neběží, musím to
otvírat z nové verze, které se jinak bráním 
V té starší verzi blbne otvírání protokolem https, údajně je to u
víc prohlížečů.

On 13 November 2017 at 09:12, Zdeněk Pražák > wrote:

JOSM běží, dálkové ovládání je povoleno

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Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM

2017-11-13 Per discussione Zdeněk Pražák

otevírám z poslední verze firefoxu
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: majka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 13. 11. 2017 9:23:33
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM
"
Pohled amatéra: z čeho to otvíráš (jaký prohlížeč, jaká verze)? Protože
dálkové ovládání mi ze staré verze Chromu neběží, musím to otvírat z nové
verze, které se jinak bráním 
V té starší verzi blbne otvírání protokolem https, údajně je to u víc
prohlížečů.



On 13 November 2017 at 09:12, Zdeněk Pražák  wrote:
"
JOSM běží, dálkové ovládání je povoleno

"



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en communs

2017-11-13 Per discussione Gaël Simon

Bonjour,
Même si je suis légèrement hors sujet, où signaler la traduction erronée dans 
JOSM du modèle d’attributs Neighborhood, traduit en Voisinage et non Quartier ?

Gaël

Le 13 nov. 2017 à 01:22, thevenon.jul...@free.fr a écrit :

A priori la traduction est complète (aux erreurs de double apostrophe prêt à 
voir au prochain Jenkins)

Bonne nuit.

Julien / quicky
PS: désolé pour le top posting, problème avec zimbra sur mon smartphone

- Mail d'origine -
De: Vincent Privat 
À: Discussions sur OSM en français 
Envoyé: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:29:16 +0100 (CET)
Objet: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap expliqué en breton à Brest en communs

Hello,
les explications pour traduire JOSM peuvent se trouver ici:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Translations#Softwaretranslation

S'il y a une chose à retenir, c'est que les apostrophes doivent être
doublées.

Les traductions sont vérifiées automatiquement chaque matin ici:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/jenkins/job/JOSM-i18n/lastBuild/parsed_console/
L'erreur la plus fréquente est l'oubli des doubles apostrophes, j'en ai
corrigé plusieurs ce matin.

Ensuite les traductions sont prises en compte en fin de développement, en
général le dernier week-end de chaque mois.

A+
Vincent

> Le 12 novembre 2017 à 11:59, marc marc  a écrit :
> 
> Bonjour,
> 
>> Le 12. 11. 17 à 11:36, Gaël Simon a écrit :
>> y a-t-il quelque part un guide de la traduction JOSM pour débutants ?
>> Le 10 nov. 2017 à 20:06, Vincent Privat a écrit :
>> https://translations.launchpad.net/josm/trunk/+
> pots/josm/fr/+translate?show=untranslated
> 
> clic sur le lien de Vincent
> clic en haut à droite pour s'enregistrer ou se connecter
> ensuite tu as la liste des bouts de phrase à traduire.
> tout en bas à droite "sauver"
> 
> Cordialement,
> Marc
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[Talk-cz] první liberecký Missing Maps HOTOSM mapathon

2017-11-13 Per discussione Pavel Petr

Dobrý den,

ve středu 15.11. proběhne v Liberci první mapathon s Lékaři bez hranic.
více info a registrace: https://goo.gl/3rUHWb
probíhá v rámci GISday Liberec.

Hezký den!

-- 
Pavel Petr
3D scanning technician @g4d.cz
twitter.com/pointcloudfever
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Re: [Talk-cz] nefunguje mi vzdálené otevírání JOSM