[Talk-us] Bus Route Mapping in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Just an FYI/general info announcement. I'm working with fellow mapper 
MDroads http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mdroads   (and any other OSM
editors of course) to map bus routes of Maryland Transit Administration bus
lines throughout the Baltimore region of Maryland.

I'm doing my best to adhere to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport though the relations for
stops are *very* tedious. Therefore, phase one has been getting the route
relations mapped. Once complete, I'll look at adding bus stops as
public_transport=platform. I made a non-OSM map of all the stops from an MTA
dataset but many of the data points are quite far off and are generally
unsuitable for OSM. ( my map is on my blog
http://www.elliottplack.com/2012/10/map-of-all-mta-maryland-stops.html  )
The stop data is utilized by Google Maps for its transit routing, and as a
transit rider, I often find the inaccuracy of the data annoying. The data is
from Trapeze, a bus routing product, and is not considered accurate by the
MTA for map purposes.

I've added more to the wiki for any interested parties at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Baltimore,_Maryland/Bus_Routes

Explore the routes on the OSM slippy map at
http://osm.org/go/ZZfUax2?layers=T



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Re: [Talk-us] Virtual Mappy Hour starting in 30 minutes

[Elliott Plack]

Mike,

Thanks for the comment and sharing that map. I defintely see in this case
where it would be useful to have the forward/backward roles. I am still
learning (always) about relations and so forth, and have seen those roles
used on other routes.

On the wiki for the public transport routes, it says not to use the roles,
so that is what I'd been doing. Here is a link, 2nd paragraph under route
direction:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport#Route

I suppose this schema emphasizes multiple relations for each route, forward
and backward. I'd like to know more though if you're seeing other mappers
use those roles on public transport mapping.

-Elliott



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Re: [Talk-us] Examples Gov using OSM

[Elliott Plack]

I can think of many examples of governments importing data into OSM, but none
where they are using it actively. Is that what you are looking for examples
of?



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Re: [Talk-us] Examples Gov using OSM

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks for posting that John! I would like to figure out how to apply some of
that to my current bus route mapping endeavours in Baltimore.



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[Talk-us] Import: Baltimore City buildings

[Elliott Plack]

I've been putting this one off for a while, because of the magnitude of the
dataset. I am importing Baltimore city building footprint data one
neighborhood at a time. Running an intersect of this layer against the
neighborhood layer breaks it down into bite size chunks that are easier to
work with. I've gotten the necessary permission from the city, and talked
about it with local users at the editathon, as well as over email or in
person.

Here is the data:
https://data.baltimorecity.gov/Geographic/Building-Footprint-Shape/deus-s85f

Here is the workflow:

Open data in GIS program
Open neighborhood boundaries (same website) in same GIS program
Intersect, select single neighborhood worth of buildings
Save as individual shapefile
Launch JOSM
Bring in shapefile
Download data (as new layer)
Compare every existing feature to new ones (can take a while)
Look for traced buildings that use non-ortho imagery (shifted)
Copy any tags from existing building features to building in new dataset
(preserving others work)
Remove machine tags from new data
Tag as building=yes
Copy all multipolygons to .osm data layer
Copy all polygons to .osm data layer
Verify tagging
Check for errors
Fix duplicated node errors with JOSM
Fix building inside building errors by removing extra nodes
Final check by turning new data on/off and looking for overlaps
Upload with special EP_Import account

Now if I could just figure out how to post to the imports@



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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Baltimore Building Outlines Import

[Elliott Plack]

Matthew emailed me last night about this, and I'm excited to see him take over. 
I hadn't thought to pull the addresses from the parcel network.


I can also confirm the data is public domain. I work closely with the city GIS 
team in my work at Baltimore County.


Matthew: since your doing addresses, perhaps I should remove some buildings I 
already brought in.


Building type: you might be able to tell if its classified residential or 
commercial or whatever from the GIS data.


Looks great overall!


Elliott
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On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:

 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Matthew Petroff
 openstreet...@mpetroff.netwrote:

 Using QGIS, I assigned approximate street addresses to each building using
 a
 parcel map [3] and used the field calculator to clean up the labels and
 remove
 abbreviations. In addition, I removed all data that intersected with
 existing
 buildings to preserve existing work. I then separated the data into smaller
 chunks and converted the Shapefiles to OSM with Merkaartor. After
 simplifying
 Merkaartor's output using osmconvert's --drop-author switch, I tagged the
 data with sed, before finally using JOSM to remove duplicate vertices and
 empty
 tags. My only qualm with the data is that some buildings have more nodes
 than
 they need, but I'm not sure what can be done about it besides manually
 reviewing
 and simplifying all 200k+ outlines.

 This is a great project. Having building outlines really helps when doing
 mapping parties.
 I would recommend doing a sample check of parcels and building outlines to
 verify that the combined data is accurate. And since you are using parcel
 data, is that also Public Domain?
 How many more nodes do typical building contain? We found importing
 building outlines in Seattle, that the imported outlines were much more
 detained, and accurate, than human drawn outlines. More nodes, but much
 richer looking outlines.
 I would recommend reading wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Imports and adding
 your import to the catalog. You can use our import of buildings and
 addresses to Seattle as an example. See
 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SeattleImport
 Lastly, how do you plan to actually import the data? Are you using a
 script? If so what are you using?
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Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow

[Elliott Plack]

What a fantastic post! I am a neighborhood guru, as mapping subdivisions is
part of my job description at Baltimore County Government. i have several
years experience mapping neighborhoods in the legal sense in an ESRI GIS
environment, and have translated some of that to OSM in my spare time. When
our data goes CC0, I'm going to look into making an 'imagery' layer of plat
outlines so that people can trace them if they want.

A few quick points (some are not unique):

* Neighborhood can mean a fluid place OR a platted subdivision with defined
legal boundaries. I find the former to be the case in cities where land was
not conveyed by plat in 1600-1900s, but rather by deed or some other asinine
instrument. The large tracts that became city neighborhoods don't tend to
have a definitive plat thus people come up with their own names. Meanwhile,
the latter is generally the case in suburbs, especially the ones that sprang
up after WW2. By then, plats were the requirement, not just the norm, and
developers thought of cute names like 'Placid Acres' which stuck with the
community. HOAs reinforce this.
* place=neighborhood vs place=hamlet: The TIGER import as I understand it
uses the place=hamlet (silly british name). PLACE=NEIGHBORHOOD IS NOT
RENDERED (https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4191) and thus I haven't
changed place=hamlets to neighborhood here. Hamlet has no meaning in
Baltimore except perhaps where Robin Hood might live.
* It makes sense that Zillow has the good data because real estate is all
about location, and everyone wants to be in the desirable 'neighborhood.'
Many of these boundaries are set by govs. People don't always agree, and new
buyers may find themselves on the 'wrong side of the tracks' despite the
listing being in the good area.

That's all for now.
-Elliott



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Re: [Talk-us] Hamlets!

[Elliott Plack]

Great topic Serge. A lot of the hamlets in Baltimore come from platted
subdivision names, that due to extra awesome county GIS agencies that have
been around for 30+ years, were in TIGER in 2000. In my county almost every
subdivision is considered a hamlet, even the ones that are like Walton
Property. Those are few and far between though, its mostly the platted
subdivisions in the county.

There are no incorporated places in Baltimore County and neighboring Howard
County, so there cannot be any of the higher level place=* types.

In the city of Baltimore, we have over 250 well defined neighborhoods, yet
their boundaries are defined by a planning dept., not the people per se.
Most of the neighborhoods have nodes place=suburb, but it probably should
be place=neighborhood. Since it doesn't render though, I think people
prefer not to changes.

Sometimes I'll add a landuse=residential and then copy hamlet node's info
to it.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote:
  On 6/21/2013 9:17 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
 
  I realized only after last week's discussion about neighborhoods that
  the hamlets (which are distinct from nehighborhoods) are the things
  messing up the geocoder.
 
 
I would say not to touch any hamlets; let the locals fix them up
  appropriately.

 The goal is to share our experiences with them and determine what, if
 anything, should be done.

 It's clear that in NYC, some of them are neighborhoods, some are
 public housing projects, some are historical, and we aren't sure what
 others are.

 People in other places are reporting their experiences, which seem to
 be highly localized- everything from the data is worthless, to these
 hamlets are being used to describe small communities.

  Their presence doesn't hurt anything, aside from the small
  geocoding hiccup or map not rendering optimally.

 The map should reflect ground reality, so unless there are hamlets in
 these places, we should strive to fix them. By sharing our
 experiences, we can have a better sense of how others are doing that,
 and we can use that to inform our local decisions.

 - Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Lake Powell

[Elliott Plack]

This warrants a wiki article!


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.comwrote:

 Gave it a go, but still hasn't rendered correctly.  Looks like there
 might've been a separate relationship for each state's part of the lake and
 they got broken somehow, probably in June.  I deleted one relation (370016)
 and consolidated ways into http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=370015
 The relationship looks good to me, but there must be something wrong
 still.  Unless someone else figures it out in the meantime, I'll try to
 look at it OSM Inspector once it refreshes and identify what the remaining
 issue is.

 Cheers,
 Brad (aka neuhausr)

 ps--really fun topography to view!


 On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Russell Deffner russdeff...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello OSM-US,

 ** **

 I was looking at notes and saw one over by Lake Powell, I think someone
 was trying to adjust the shoreline and broke the relationship.  Anyone
 listening who wants to try and fix?  Here’s the general location:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.9979190826416lon=-111.31210327148438zoom=11
 

 ** **

 Thanks, I don’t spend much time with water features and relationships;***
 *

 =Russ

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[Talk-us] Releasing my data into Public Domain

[Elliott Plack]

Great news! First of all, I saved my 1000th edit the other day. Secondly,
my organization is release all of its data into the public domain! That
organization is Baltimore County Government. The exact timeline is
tentative, but it is just around the corner.

Question to you: On our website, we are uncertain as how to say, The data
is public domain. Can you all provide examples of other sites that provide
data that has been imported into OSM? I want to make sure our un-license
is compatible with OSM, and the Open Data in general, especially if there
are disclaimers involved.

Thanks,
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Re: [Talk-us] Burning Man old data, publicity opportunity

[Elliott Plack]

Just as a note of interest, on my way to SOTMUS this year in San Francisco,
I'm pretty sure we flew over Black Rock City. I took some pictures out of
the plane window:
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kfjpmgydqcser3v/tqkMPNPrCw(link to
pictures).

-Elliott


On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Kathleen Danielson 
kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote:

 I only know a little about Burning Man (seriously, just what I read in
 Cory Doctorow's Homeland), but mapping BRC makes sense to me.

 Is it on the exact same location every year? In that case it seems like it
 would make sense to update the map annually. If they are on different parts
 of the dessert each year, it would probably make sense to map each one, but
 once the city is torn down, modify the tags to indicate a past structure.
 The Historical OSM folks would probably have better guidance on the best
 way to do this.

 Either way, it seems like this could be a really neat way to preserve
 Black Rock City.

 Are any OSM folks going to be at Burning Man this year?


 On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Clay Smalley claysmal...@gmail.comwrote:

 So Black Rock City is mapped on OpenStreetMap... twice. And both are old
 versions (the city as it was in 2008 and 2009). Anyone know why this is?
 Should the two old cities be deleted and replaced with the 2013 city?

 I have a feeling that this could be a fun publicity opportunity for OSM,
 if we're the first ones to map out Black Rock City during Burning Man. Not
 to mention that the kind of people who go to Burning Man would probably
 rather support OSM over Google Maps, given someone tells them about OSM. It
 brings in people from everywhere, so ideally they could go back to their
 respective communities and possibly get more involved in local OSM mapping.

 Just ranting a pipe dream. Does this sound realistic?

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Baltimore County GIS Data is now public domain

[Elliott Plack]

Alex,

We definitely have buildings, updated as of 2011. We use them for the
stormwater remediation fee AKA Rain Tax. I'd like to figure out how to
combine them with buildings (or not) and convert the abbreviated addresses
to full. We can talk about that more on imports.

As for the public domain thing, I don't think we have it on the website,
but it is (or should) be in the metadata. I will work on getting it written
onto the website.

To view the disclaimer go to this
linkhttp://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/infotech/GIS/datadownload.htmland
click FTP Site, which opens up the disclaimer in a javascript window
(I
think). My favorite clause is :

 The user or recipient of data, hereby acknowledges that Baltimore County,
 Maryland, its agents, employees, successors, and assigns shall not be
 responsible for any and all property damage or bodily injury (*including
 serious physical injury or even death*) incurred as a result of, or
 arising out of or in connection with the use of or reliance upon data
 displayed herein.

Death by data?

Jason: Alright, public domain it should stay then!


On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:

 Elliott - very interesting. Addresses are definitely a good one, are there
 good building footprints that go with them?

 On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.comwrote:

 Baltimore County asserts that the data is to be released into the public
 domain.


 Where do they claim that? and could you provide a link to the accuracy
 disclaimer?




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Re: [Talk-us] Baltimore County GIS Data is now public domain

[Elliott Plack]

 into OSM.  That is an
 entirely different thread!  (One which has been addressed many times and in
 many ways regarding imports).

 I hope this helps,

 SteveA
 California

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Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: CDPs

[Elliott Plack]

In Baltimore County, MD, we have 0 incorporated towns with nearly 1M
people. There are however plenty of informal towns that have become CDPs. I
believe the Census uses ZCTAs to construct the CDPs, so they're based on
ZIP Codes, which in turn are based on postal routes.

I think humans tend to like boundaries in general, so it is probably
natural they end up on OSM. I think that if people identify with them, and
there are no other admin boundaries, then go for it.


On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote:

  (I realize that in Alaska
  there are some areas where CDPs seem to matter.)

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda%2C_Maryland

 - Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Bing imagery update

[Elliott Plack]

Clifford, great share!


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Martijn van Exel
mart...@openstreetmap.uswrote:

 The site you are pointing to is actually a much improved fork of a
 much simpler thing I built a few years ago, so I can't take much
 credit for this :)

 On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
 wrote:
  Check out Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMap,
  http://ant.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/. Someone posted a
 link
  about it on the Canadian talk list this morning. Another one of Martijn
 van
  Exel great contributions to OSM.
 
 
  On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Alexander Jones happy5...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Mike N wrote:
 
   In my part of SC, Bing imagery has updated!   Seems to be from this
   year; within the last month or so.
 
  New imagery in Fresno, too. When you're remapping rail yards, it's a
  lifesaver.
 
  Alexander
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] building=house vs building=detached

[Elliott Plack]

Interesting. I think this might be one of those UK centric ones. According
to the wiki, you're correct. However here in the USA, I think many people,
especially new ones, would draw their house on OSM, and then tag it with
house on iD. Here a house is the place where a person or family resides.
Sometimes they're attached, other times they're detached.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Saikrishna Arcot saiarcot...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 What the difference between building=house and building=detached? My
 understanding is that a house that has two addresses (and two familes)
 would be considered as building=house, whereas if there is only one address
 and one family, then it is building=detached.

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Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways

[Elliott Plack]

Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that some
mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads in
Maryland. All county roads in MD have a 4 digit number that starts with CO,
like CO1150. CO is also the state abbr. for Colorado. Chaos ensues on the
renders that show shields when people do this in MD. Check out the Colorado
shields in Maryland on Mapquest Open. That's sure to confuse people.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/38.2659/-76.5211layers=Q

For this reason, I advocate for the US:MD:CO reference someone mentioned.


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Alexander Jones happy5...@gmail.comwrote:

 Carl Simonson wrote:

  Let's not forget about segments that are part of multiple routes. For
  example, there's a section of I-35 in northern Missouri that is both I-35
  and US 110. Or in Ames, IA there's a section of US 30 that's also known
 as
  I-35 Business.

 110 is actually a state route, used to sign the Chicago-Kansas City
 Expressway.

 Alexander



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Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways

[Elliott Plack]

Phil,

That's right. I would use unsigned_ref for county routes. In Baltimore
County the county route numbers are never signed and not really even
advertised. You'd have to look at SHA databases to figure out the ref. Here
is an example using the proposed tagging (without using relations).

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/21367512#map=17/39.41966/-76.62618

Elliott


On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote:

 * Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com [2014-03-28 02:53 -0400]:
  Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that
 some
  mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads
 in
  Maryland.

 Since Maryland counties don't sign their route numbers[0], they're using
 unsigned_ref=, not ref= in their way and route relation tagging, right?


 [0] In any county I'm directly familiar with, at least; I don't go to
 southern Maryland much, and I don't usually venture far outside the US
 50 corridor on the Eastern Shore.

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Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: [agade] WEBS: Digitized maps

[Elliott Plack]

These are great, thanks for sharing!


On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:

 This might be of interest:

  Original Message   Subject: [agade] WEBS: Digitized maps  
 Date:
 Sun, 6 Apr 2014 10:29:22 -0500  From: Jack Sasson
 jack.m.sas...@vanderbilt.edu jack.m.sas...@vanderbilt.edu  Reply-To: Jack
 Sasson jack.m.sas...@vanderbilt.edu jack.m.sas...@vanderbilt.edu  To: The
 Agade mailing list. ag...@listserv.unc.edu ag...@listserv.unc.edu

 From http://www.nypl.org/blog/2014/03/28/open-access-maps?sf2438789=1 
 http://www.nypl.org/blog/2014/03/28/open-access-maps?sf2438789=1:
 

 Open Access Maps at NYPLby Matt Knutzen, Stephen A. Schwarzman
 Building, Map DivisionMarch 28, 2014

 The Lionel Pincus  Princess Firyal Map Division is very proud to
 announce the release of more than 20,000 cartographic works as high
 resolution downloads. We believe these maps have no known US copyright
 restrictions.* To the extent that some jurisdictions grant NYPL an
 additional copyright in the digital reproductions of these maps, NYPL
 is distributing these images under a Creative Commons CC0 1.0
 Universal Public Domain Dedication. The maps can be viewed through the
 New York Public Library's Digital Collections page, and downloaded
 (!), through the Map Warper. First, create an account, then click a
 map title and go. Here's a primer and more extended blog post on the
 warper.

 Plan of Bay Ridge Parkway, Olmsted, Olmsted  Eliot Landscape
 Architects, 1895What's this all mean?

 It means you can have the maps, all of them if you want, for free, in
 high resolution.We've scanned them to enable their use in the broadest
 possible ways by the largest number of people.

 Though not required, if you'd like to credit the New York Public
 Library, please use the following text From The Lionel Pincus 
 Princess Firyal Map Division, The New York Public Library. Doing so
 helps us track what happens when we release collections like this to
 the public for free under really relaxed and open terms. We believe
 our collections inspire all kinds of creativity, innovation and
 discovery, things the NYPL holds very dear.

 Sanitary and social chart of the Fourth Ward of the City of New York,
 to accompany a report of the 4th Sanitary Inspection District. 1864A
 little background on how we got here... We've been scanning maps for
 about 15 years, both as part of the NYPL's general work but mostly
 through grant funded projects like the 2001National Endowment for the
 Humanities (NEH) fundedAmerican Shores: Maps of the MidAtlantic to
 1850, the 2004 Institute of Museum and Library Services (IMLS)funded
 Building a Globally Distributed Historical Sheet Map Set and the 2010
 NEH funded New York City Historical GIS.

 Through these projects, we've built up a great collection of: 1,100
 maps of the Mid-Atlantic United States and cities from the 16th to
 19th centuries, mostly drawn from the Lawrence H. Slaughter
 Collection; a detailed collection of more than 700 topographic maps of
 the Austro-Hungarian empire created between 1877 and 1914; a
 collection of 2,800 maps from state, county and city atlases (mostly
 New York and New Jersey); a huge collection of more than 10,300 maps
 from property, zoning, topographic, but mostly fire insurance atlases
 of New York City dating from 1852 to 1922; and an incredibly diverse
 collection of more than 1,000 maps of New York City, its boroughs and
 neighborhoods, dating from 1660 to 1922, which detail transportation,
 vice, real estate development, urban renewal, industrial development
 and pollution, political geography among many, many other things.

 We in the Map Division are all very excited about this release and
 look forward to seeing these maps in works of art, historical
 publications, movies, archaeological reports, novels, environmental
 remediation efforts, urban planning studies and more... Enjoy!

 * The maps may be subject to rights of privacy, rights of publicity
 and other restrictions. It is your responsibility to make sure that
 you respect these rights.




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Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks as footpaths

[Elliott Plack]

In Baltimore, I've refrained from tracing too many sidewalks, except when
the sidewalk is part of one the the signed city paths. I have noticed that
routing that uses OSM (like Strava) tends to choke if all the ways are not
there, and also if there are overlapping segments without a node.

I like the, *if it is separate* philosophy.


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:

 Toby Murray-2 wrote
  Wait, what is the consensus method for tagging sidewalks? I haven't done
 a
  lot of them but I know I've added a few as footways myself.

 I have struggled with how best to map sidewalks in the US as well. In
 european cities my impression is that sidewalks are generally directly
 attached as part of the road, and they are typically just another (special)
 lane. So there you typically don't map the sidewalks as separate.
 Footways
 in those settings generally are real footways and thus deserve the
 prominence the style sheet gives them. But in the US (at least in
 suburbia),
 the sidewalks are often much more detached from the road with wide grass
 strips between them. They also sometimes aren't entirely parallel to the
 road. So there it makes more sense to map them as separate OSM ways rather
 than to use a sidewalk key on the main road.

 However, the separate ways also can have disadvantages for pedestrian
 routing. As a pedestrian, I would typically just cross a (non busy) road
 where ever I need to. If the sidewalks and roads are mapped separately, the
 router can't just tell you to cross the road though, but needs to route you
 to the next mapped intersection. One also needs to add a number of
 connection ways between roads and sidewalks which in that form doesn't
 really exist in reality, making the maps look even more messy.

 Not sure there is an ideal solution for this and we will likely see both
 explicit footway mapping and mapping as part of the road. It would still be
 good to come to somewhat more of a consensus on the topic though.

 Kai



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Re: [Talk-us] Roads closed for maintenance/construction

[Elliott Plack]

+1

I would use the scheme mentioned by the OP. For added detail, I might map
an area around the construction and tag it landuse=construction

Elliott


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:

 On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Saikrishna Arcot saiarcot...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  Is there a specific tag for roads that have already been constructed,
 but are closed either for maintenance or construction of something else?

 [ ... ]

  I'm currently using highway=contruction and construction=tertiary (the
 road in question is a tertiary road).

 That's how I have tagged similar closings.

 Since you are local, keep an eye on it and re-open it when the work is
 done, too. :-)

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Re: [Talk-us] Mapnik not rendering leisure=nature_reserve

[Elliott Plack]

I too have been importing nature reserves and noticed this. I am not sure
if I like the new light green with thick hash text. The NR can be a bit
much, maybe reduce the density. I'll comment on GitHub.


On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 12:38 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

 This isn't a problem with Mapnik, but a change to openstreetmap.org's
 Mapnik XML. I would post an issue here https://github.com/
 gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto

 Daniel


 Thank you, Daniel!  I have now discovered that Paul Norman has effectively
 done this with https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-
 carto/issues/563 .

 Steve


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Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP

[Elliott Plack]

CDPs make for nice cartographic labeling in areas where there are no other
official towns. e.g.
http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/villeda.map-atyd5cky.html#11/39.3356/-76.5905


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
wrote:

 On 2014-06-11 09:09, Clifford Snow wrote:

 I can not search for an address in part of unincorporated King County,
 WA when using the postal city.

 Fails - 7732 234th Place Northeast, Redmond, WA

 The search works when omitting the postal city. The search returns the
 CDP, Union Hill-Novelty Hill at the correct location.

 Passes - 7732 234th Place Northeast, WA

 The building is tagged as follows:
 addr:city=Redmond
 addr:housenumber=7732
 addr:street=234th Place Northeast
 addr:postcode=98053
 name=7732

 Is this a problem with nominatim or the CDP boundary?


 I'm resigned to the idea that Nominatim only gives reverse absolute paths,
 not addresses. I've mapped many residential and retail developments with
 named landuses, so Nominatim now gives results like:

 3, Highridge Circle, Stoneybrook, Loveland, Hamilton, Ohio, 45140, United
 States
 http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=42703202

 (where Stoneybrook is a named landuse=residential)

 The tagging is correct, but Nominatim is a tad too aggressive in this
 case. Its behavior probably makes sense for rural, poorly mapped areas, but
 not for built-up, well-mapped ones.

 --
 m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us



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Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?

[Elliott Plack]

Martijn,

I like it so far! It is hard to part ways with Waze but I do like that the
Scout data is all OSM.

Question, I occasionally get some weird routing. Is there a good place to
discuss these things? Here, twitter, etc?

Elliott



On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Martijn van Exel marti...@telenav.com
wrote:

 Hi all!

 We launched Scout for iOS powered by OpenStreetMap a little over a
 month ago now, followed by the Android version in early June. While
 the feedback in general has been overwhelmingly positive, I am really
 curious to hear about your experiences. Have you tried Scout? What are
 your impressions? Have you given any feedback using the map error
 reporting function in the app?

 Nothing major to report from our side. We're looking closely at the
 map feedback coming in through the apps. Our main objective right now
 is to make sure the feedback we get is useful so we can fix OSM based
 on it where necessary. Of course, we would like to involve you in that
 process - either through MapRoulette, or OSM notes, or some other
 means - but right now there is too much 'noise' for that to work
 without us looking at every report first. Which is what we are doing.
 You may see the odd note appear on the map as a result of this. (see
 an example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/187143)

 Some other OSM related things we're working on currently:
 * We are fixing ways in OSM that are marked with fixme=dual
 carriageway (or a variant thereof).
 * We are adding exit_to information to selected stretches of freeway
 * We are working on getting fresh data to Scout users faster
 (currently 2 weeks).
 * I am working on improving MapRoulette - specifically better statistics

 As always, feel free to email me directly with questions, feedback or
 concerns!

 --
 Martijn van Exel
 OSM data specialist
 Telenav
 http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel
 http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel

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Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP

[Elliott Plack]

ZIP code / government addressing data expert here :)

* ZCTA = ZIP Code Tabulation Area. ZCTAs are established by the *US
Census Bureau not the US Postal Service.* ZCTAs have been established to
tabulate population statistics around an area  people may identify as a
city, because there isn't an incorporated legal city there (for instance).
* ZIP Code = Zoning Improvement Plan Code. ZIP Codes are established by the
US Post Office to *route mail*, *ZIP Codes do not have a direct spatial
component, like a polygon boundary, per se.*

Therefore you can't technically map US ZIP Codes with a polygon. Any maps
you see where ZIP Codes are mapped, those boundaries are *derived *from
addresses. Technically a USPS ZIP Code map would be a point cloud of
address points. If you stand on a vacant parcel with no address it also
technically does not have a ZIP Code until the USPS says it does. There are
many oddities in ZIP Codes, like holes and enclaves.

In the USA, ZIP Codes are established based on imaginary boundaries
surrounding post office locations. They are set up to route mail
efficiently.

* End expertise, begin opinion *

Since there are areas in the USA where there are no incorporated cities
(that is, ones with a government / mayor), people often identify the place
they live based on whatever the city field is on their mail.

For OSM, I believe we should only be mapping postal codes by attributing
them to addresses. CDP and ZCTA boundaries could arguably be included, as
some kind of admin level.

Elliott
Baltimore Co. GIS.




On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:

 On 6/26/14 3:20 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
  Postal code usually means Zip code, or its non-USA equivalent, not city.
 this is one of those fussy points in US geocoding.

 the zip code can be mapped to the postal city, which is what is
 in everyone's addresses, and is what i think most us residents
 initially expect when typing an address into a search box.

 the underlying point being that there isn't one true geocoder,
 it depends entirely on what you're trying to accomplish. something
 driven by postal codes/addresses can be correct for many
 applications, while being wrong for others.

 to my mind the fact that we keep going in circles about this
 is evidence that we're thinking about the problem the wrong way.

 richard

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  Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
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Re: [Talk-us] routing tags used by actual routing applications

[Elliott Plack]

Stava is also routing with OSM. I CC'd Paul Mach who spoke about their cool
Slide tool for mapping paths at SOTMUS 14. I'm wondering if the strava
routing considers said tags.


On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi,

 Would it be possible for somebody from telenav/scout/skobbler to
 update this page, or make a new wiki page describing what tagging is
 actually used to determine if a way is considered for a route?

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing

 Playing around with scout, I have discovered that it will not route
 over tracks, cycleways, and paths unless you are in pedestrian mode.
 It ignores access=destination, and the surface tag.

 Similarly to how default tile server shapes tagging, scout, skobbler ,
 osmand, etc, and the other widely used OSM routing applications will
 inevitably shape tagging. It would be useful to document what the
 mainstream routing application are actually doing rather than
 guessing.

 Thanks
 Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] Mapping event in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

I'll be there! I'll see if I can get some of the other OSM locals out there
too.

https://flic.kr/p/n5HyuZ

-Elliott


On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:

 Patrick - you're on: http://openstreetmap.us/calendar/


 On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Maynard patrickmayn...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Would someone with access be handy to add this calendar item? I don't
 believe I have the required privileges.




  On 7/3/14, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:
  We should also put it on the calendar:
 http://openstreetmap.us/calendar/
 
  I don't remember the credentials / address for that calendar right
  now, ccing the board to make sure this event gets listed there!
 
  On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Patrick Maynard
  patrickmayn...@gmail.com wrote:
  A half dozen people have expressed interest to me in a mapping party
  here
  in Baltimore. Here are some details:
 
   We meet at 11 a.m. at the Patterson Park Pakoda. Rain date TBA
 (so
  *please
  let me know* if you want to be individually placed on the contacts
  list).
 
   Since I'm hoping for a lot of newbies, many of us will most
 likely
  be
  using the simple web-based software that osm provides, rather than
  dedicated clients.
 
   Laptops (and especially sharable data plans!) are welcome, but if
  you
  bring technology, we'll have you sign a waiver acknowledging that you
  are,
  indeed, in the middle of a large city, and that you understand the
 idea
  of
  risk. Paper and later transcription are always among the options.
 
  These are also visible at the Baltimore wiki page.
 
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Baltimore,_Maryland#Events
 
  Pre-emptive apologies if this list is the wrong place for this
 message.
  If
  it is, please correct me with a better venue, and I shall avoid the
 sin
  in
  the future.
 
  Hoping to hear from interested people.
 
  Best,
 
  Patrick
 
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[Talk-us] Beach routing

[Elliott Plack]

OSM US:

I've been using some routing engines to map fitness routes (e.g. Strava)
that use OSM data. Along our US coasts, there are beaches. The beaches I'm
familiar with are popular with walkers and joggers to go up and down the
shore, since access is generally open to anyone along the water's edge. I'm
considering adding a `highway=path` along the beach to facilitate this. I'd
add the connections to the walking paths between parking lots and the beach
as well.

For uninterrupted strips of sandy beach, would a path be appropriate to
indicate walkability?

How the map looks now in iD: http://i.imgur.com/2EQ06BR.jpg
What I'd propose to do (note the connections):
http://i.imgur.com/i8dj6lQ.jpg
Area of the examples:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/38.45143/-75.04957

Thanks,

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Re: [Talk-us] Beach routing

[Elliott Plack]

I think I'd probably only do bike=no if there was a No Bikes on Beach
type sign. (same with horses) It is possible to ride along the surf where
the sand is hard with a standard MTB. What about:

highway=path (can't be track for the viz tags)
access=public
surface=sand
trail_visibility=no

?


On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote:

 On 7/10/2014 2:58 PM, Jim McAndrew wrote:

 I would make sure that you add tags like bicycle=no, even though
 bicycles are probably not forbidden, bicycles and sand generally do not
 mix.


 The key word being generally http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-
 OIK5OAowFPQ/TaWSb5XILAI/CMk/kPaJ7BKDnts/s1600/
 Custom_Beach_Bike.jpg



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Re: [Talk-us] East Coast Greenway updated as ncn

[Elliott Plack]

SteveA,

Solid work!


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 2:09 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

 The East Coast Greenway, a quasi-national bicycle route from Key West,
 Florida to St. Stephen, New Brunswick at the Canadian border, linking major
 cities of the Atlantic coast in the USA, is now accurate and fully updated
 in OSM.  7270 kilometers of route and alternate spurs now faithfully render
 in Cycle Map layer.

 It's been a fun few weeks getting it all correct and watching it happen
 (render).  National bicycle routes in the USA in OSM:  lookin' good!

 http://www.osm.org/relation/1774795#map=6/37/-73layers=C

 Thanks and shouts to Eric Weis (at ECG), Andy Allan (for OCM) and many
 more.

 Enjoy!

 SteveA
 California

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[Talk-us] Baltimore County Maryland Building and Address Import

[Elliott Plack]

Greetings Fellow Mappers,

As some of you may know, I am a GIS Specialist for Baltimore County, Md.
Since we released our data as public domain around a year ago, I've been
meaning to do this import. This week I had some free time and decided to
kick it off, just in time for the 10th anniversary of OpenStreetMap.

I've been working on this project in the open, as much as possible: at
https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap

The details of the import procedures are found on the github wiki, which I
will move to the OSM wiki periodically:
https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap/wiki/Buildings-and-Addresses-Import

The intent of this import is to provide OSM users with the best and most
accurate street and building data my office has to offer. Our data is
thoroughly vetted, verified, and tested. It has to be good, because County
emergency staff rely on it in the field.

While preparing the data for import and consideration by the community,
much thought was put into the content, spatially and in data terms. For
instance, county address data is stored in all caps, with standard
abbreviations. The road names' case was changed intelligently, so that
roads like McDonough would read correctly. Also, all abbreviations were
expanded. More details on the wiki.

(A note on abbreviations given the recent discussions on various OSM
mailing lists. Baltimore County is meticulous and methodical about using
abbreviations in its data. Words like Mount and Saint are never
abbreviated. Only directionals (pre + post) and types are abbreviated. This
made expansion a breeze.)

Please review the wiki and github. Data is on Microsoft OneDrive
https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap/wiki/Buildings-and-Addresses-Import
https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap/
http://1drv.ms/XOQD9J

I welcome all feedback, and while I've tried to get it right the first
time, there may be room for improvement.

Thanks,

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[Talk-us] Fwd: Western state vacation - counties and street names

[Elliott Plack]

Midwestern area mappers take note: My friend Mike (OSM: mdroads), owner of
mdroads.com, is out west and has been dropping lots of notes out there.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Mike
Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 10:50 AM
Subject: Western state vacation - counties and street names
To: Elliott Plack


Elliott,

I have a whole string of OSM notes posted across South Dakota, Wyoming,
Kansas and Nebraska, for street name variances with Tiger and also
confirmation of county/secondary numbering.

Every county has its own way of signing things and handling their
street grid system, changed since the last Tiger for E911 purposes. At each
county line, going the NS street will have two names, one for each county's
grid usually the 1st in the county to the east and also the 31st to the
west.  Most counties are fixed grid size under the PLSS.  Most EW roads are
lettered; the main highway was often P Road since that was the 16th in the
middle of the county.  Other counties reverse this whole number/letter
business.  Other counties
 use all letters or numbers, and differ by road type for direction.

 I can't reliably do GPS tracks, nor paper notes, so I'm tracing in JOSM
from imagery.  Should be back in town for next week.

Mike



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[Talk-us] Changing the comment on a changeset after it posts

[Elliott Plack]

Greetings,

Is there a way to change a changeset comment after it posts. I'm amidst a
large import and a few of the uploads have the wrong note. This is due to
the auto-fill function of the comment in JOSM acting up (expletive!).
Luckily they still convey basically the correct thing--that this is an
import of Baltimore County data. I am hoping that I could just upload a
changset to change a changset :)

The following changesets have issues:

one multi-changeset upload
#24872906
#24868662
#24867183
#24865439
#24863533
#24861398
#24859872
#24856920

and another

#24848111
#24847827

Thanks,

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Re: [Talk-us] Changing the comment on a changeset after it posts

[Elliott Plack]

PS: some of that data is still being uploaded, so I need to wait until it
finishes to change anything further I believe.


On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Greetings,

 Is there a way to change a changeset comment after it posts. I'm amidst a
 large import and a few of the uploads have the wrong note. This is due to
 the auto-fill function of the comment in JOSM acting up (expletive!).
 Luckily they still convey basically the correct thing--that this is an
 import of Baltimore County data. I am hoping that I could just upload a
 changset to change a changset :)

 The following changesets have issues:

 one multi-changeset upload
 #24872906
 #24868662
 #24867183
 #24865439
 #24863533
 #24861398
 #24859872
 #24856920

 and another

 #24848111
 #24847827

 Thanks,

 --
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 http://about.me/elliottp




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Re: [Talk-us] Baltimore County Maryland Building and Address Import

[Elliott Plack]

Quick update: The import is finished! I've been doing some QC and it really
is great to look at, and so useful. OSM in Baltimore County has better
addresses than any of the other online maps. Hooray for open source!
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/39.4379/-76.6223

I'll write a diary post soon detailing some of the ins and outs of this. It
was really fun.


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Greetings Fellow Mappers,

 As some of you may know, I am a GIS Specialist for Baltimore County, Md.
 Since we released our data as public domain around a year ago, I've been
 meaning to do this import. This week I had some free time and decided to
 kick it off, just in time for the 10th anniversary of OpenStreetMap.

 I've been working on this project in the open, as much as possible: at
 https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap

 The details of the import procedures are found on the github wiki, which I
 will move to the OSM wiki periodically:
 https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap/wiki/Buildings-and-Addresses-Import

 The intent of this import is to provide OSM users with the best and most
 accurate street and building data my office has to offer. Our data is
 thoroughly vetted, verified, and tested. It has to be good, because County
 emergency staff rely on it in the field.

 While preparing the data for import and consideration by the community,
 much thought was put into the content, spatially and in data terms. For
 instance, county address data is stored in all caps, with standard
 abbreviations. The road names' case was changed intelligently, so that
 roads like McDonough would read correctly. Also, all abbreviations were
 expanded. More details on the wiki.

 (A note on abbreviations given the recent discussions on various OSM
 mailing lists. Baltimore County is meticulous and methodical about using
 abbreviations in its data. Words like Mount and Saint are never
 abbreviated. Only directionals (pre + post) and types are abbreviated. This
 made expansion a breeze.)

 Please review the wiki and github. Data is on Microsoft OneDrive

 https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap/wiki/Buildings-and-Addresses-Import
 https://github.com/baltimorecounty/openstreetmap/
 http://1drv.ms/XOQD9J

 I welcome all feedback, and while I've tried to get it right the first
 time, there may be room for improvement.

 Thanks,

 --
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 http://about.me/elliottp




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[Talk-us] Baltimore County FIXME address question for consideration

[Elliott Plack]

Greetings,

In my Baltimore County building and address import there were some
intentional errors introduced. Addresses where the county didn't know the
actual address carry a 9 housenumber (as they do in the source data).
Already there have been a few of these that have been corrected because *local
mappers are fixing them and reporting them to me, which improves the County
data!* However, another editor pointed out that it might be better to nix
the 9 in favor of the FIXME tag. What do you all think?

Here is a query isolating the offending addresses. There are about 2,000,
out of the 285,000 or so addresses imported, or less than 1%.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/5Nt

Thanks,

Elliott
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Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature

[Elliott Plack]

Interesting about the Buck Act, however, the only info I could find about
this oddity is from some websites written by conspiracy theorists,
anti-government types, etc. Still, it would be in keeping with our practice
of discouraging the use of abbreviations elsewhere in addresses. It would
be very easy for a machine or renderer to abbreviate full state names down
to USPS postal abbreviations, AP style guide abbreviations, or any other
custom abbreviation.

On Thu Nov 06 2014 at 2:36:47 PM stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

  Without getting all political on people, I do wish to remind everybody
 that Arizona is not AZ.  The former is one of the fifty sovereign states of
 the union, the latter is a (federal) corporate entity created by the Buck
 Act (oh, and coincidentally, conveniently used as a postal address by the
 USPS).  They are NOT the same thing, and they ARE two different things.
 Let's be careful to use the proper one, which I believe is Arizona.

 For example, I insist that I live in a place called California.  I
 absolutely do not live in a place called CA.  They are two different
 places, and one is not the other.  If we are being truly accurate, these
 are absolutely not freely interchangeable.

 While I agree that in some circumstances it is very convenient to use a
 two-letter abbreviation for a state, and I do on occasion take advantage of
 this convenience, please keep in mind the very distinct semantics which
 differentiate these entities.

 SteveA
 California


 wiki says to use abbreviated. see
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:state#For_countries_usin
 g_hamlet.2C_subdistrict.2C_district.2C_province.2C_state

 I almost had a panic attack because I use abbreviated state in all my
 addresses.

 Mike


 On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 ÐAs seen in this photo, the new feature in I.D has me a bit confused, As
 is the rule already in osm. We do not abbreviate addresses at all. My
 question would be, how do we add state data. Abbreviated as seen here (AZ)
 or spelled out (Arizona) ?

 Any help would be appreciated.


 *Regards,*

 *Hans*


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Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature

[Elliott Plack]

Thinking more on this, and using my experience in the foursquare superuser
editing community, trying to have a single state type entity is really
quite hard to scale globally. Political boundaries and administrative
levels vary all over the world, and trying to establish a single name for a
smaller political unit than the country is really challenging. State?
Province? Municipality? There are many names for what a US State is (if you
can really compare it out), and so to use addr:state does seem fairly USA
focused.

Before the state showed up in iD, I had assumed someone could just easily
derive the US state from the postal code.

Perhaps the tag should be addr:us_state?

Kindly,

Elliott

On Thu Nov 06 2014 at 4:24:14 PM Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:


 On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com
 wrote:

 In the case of US state and Canadian province abbreviations, there is a
 1:1 correspondence with no ambiguity. Elsewhere this may or may not be
 the case. That said, using the USPS abbreviations in the US makes the
 most sense to me, as that is the format most of us who mail things with
 any regularity are used to writing and seeing addresses in. I realize
 it's an exception to the don't abbreviate rule but it does make some
 sense at least to me.


 +1



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Re: [Talk-us] Directional suffixes on roads: yes or no?

[Elliott Plack]

Jack,

Good question. I come from a local government geographer perspective. I
feel that the data should be as authoritative and official as possible with
regard to naming. It's simple for a computer algorithm to abbreviate,
ignore or omit information, but quite difficult to synthesize missing
information.

The directional suffix you refer to is officially called a post
directional. The Federal Geographic Data Committee definition is, A word
following the street name that indicates the directional taken by the
thoroughfare from an arbitrary starting point, or the sector where it is
located. See section 1.7.2.6
http://www.fgdc.gov/standards/projects/FGDC-standards-projects/street-address/05-11.2ndDraft.CompleteDoc.pdf

When you say that most people don't refer to it as such, that can
definitely pose a challenge to cartographers. My opinion is to use the full
name with the post directional and let map data users (or humans) choose
what to ignore.

Kindly,

Elliott
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 23:41 Jack Burke burke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Howdy,

 I have a question about how much effort should be put into adding
 directional suffixes to road names.

 Many counties around Atlanta have adopted directional suffixes for roads,
 both in incorporated areas as well as outside city limits. Usually all
 areas in the county use the same system, with directions denoted NE, SE, NW
 and SW from some standard point, although some cities tend to ignore the
 suffixes. Also, signage is inconsistent--some street signs bear the suffix
 while others on the same street don't.

 In most cases, the suffix is immaterial, and most people don't use it
 anyway. Use of it or not won't affect directions most of the time, although
 I know of a few specific cases where knowing the suffix can be important in
 finding the right location (is your house 100 Concord Road Southeast or
 Southwest?).

 The majority of the Tiger data doesn't include the suffix.

 So, how much should I worry about the missing suffixes? Should they be
 included in the main name= tag? Or one of the other *name tags with the
 unsuffixed name in the name= tag.

 Because most people don't use the suffix, on some roads I've put the
 with-suffix name in the name= tag and the unsuffixed one in the short_name=
 tag, but I'm wondering if I should continue to bother.

 -jack


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Re: [Talk-us] ARNOLD highway data

[Elliott Plack]

Alex,

This looks promising and I'm interested to see where the community goes
with it. I just briefly looked at the data schema and there are some useful
attributes that would make for some great information. I'll look at it a
bit more before I take a position.

Kindly,

Elliott

On Mon Jan 19 2015 at 10:44:20 PM Alex Barth a...@openstreetmap.us wrote:

 The emerging ARNOLD national highway database by the US DOT is possibly
 interesting for people here. It does contain OSM relevant data. This blog
 post goes back to Thomas Roff from DOT reaching out to OSM US to explore
 areas of mutual benefit. The directions Martijn and I discussed with him
 were

 a) listening to OSM changes to help improve the ARNOLD dataset (with or
 without a previous import of ARNOLD data) - a little bit like this is set
 up for NYC http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lxbarth/diary/23588
 b) using OSM software for data management

 Martijn, Thomas - please add where I missed something.

 Both are blue sky ideas and wouldn't be executed by OpenStreetMap US as
 this is not our place.

 I'm sharing this here for everybody's consideration and comments.

 http://openstreetmap.us/2014/12/arnold-for-osm/

 Cheers -

 Alex

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Re: [Talk-us] Bike route relation issues

[Elliott Plack]

This is an interesting conversation. Since I'm on the east coast, I've
never seen a bicycle on a freeway. Since I'm a bit of a road geek, I ask
this very question of my fellow road geeks on our discussion forum. It
seems many states have explicit laws allowing bicycles on the highway.
Follow it here: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14452.0

Elliott

On Mon Jan 12 2015 at 1:51:25 PM Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com
 wrote:

   By contrast, I am not aware of any Interstate highways in the
 southeast USA that allow bicycles. From my experience, every entrance ramp
 has signs forbidding non-motorized traffic and mopeds.


 All the more reason to explicitly tag it, since it's explicitly posted.
 Of course, the bigger trick is finding the endpoints of that, since even in
 states that do allow it (save for California), it's rare to get a bicycles
 on roadway sign regularly (Oregon, Washington and Oklahoma usually only
 post it once starting usually just before or at where bicycles first enter,
 the corresponding sign the opposite direction would be bikes must
 exit/turn right/whatever before and no bicycles after.  And they tend to
 be hard to spot because for whatever reason, USDOT thinks bicyclists can
 read fonts as tall as my thumb is thick while moving (which means
 information dense signage such as found in Portland for it's LCNs is next
 to useless without stopping in traffic), so all bicycle signage tends to be
 in the finest print possible, even on the freeway...
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Re: [Talk-us] Place classifications

[Elliott Plack]

Great start on this Minh,

I tried to tackle this in the Baltimore Washington region last year. After
reading the wiki, I decided on the following classifications:

* hamlet: census population was less than 200
* village: census pop. between 200 and 1
* town: census pop. between 10001 and 5
* city: major hub urban centers above 5

There are some CDPs though that would be a city by population alone, but
really don't have a true city feel, and cartographically would look bad as
being a city on a map. The tricky one is Glen Burnie, sprawl area south of
Baltimore with no urban core, yet the pop is over 65k. It is marked as a
city now, but really should be town I think. I like your one city per
metropolis idea.

Elliott

On Mon Jan 12 2015 at 12:12:59 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:


 2015-01-09 12:45 GMT+01:00 Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us:

 but more importantly, it accurately reflects what going to town means
 in the surrounding area. That seems to be the idea behind the wiki's
 nebulous definitions.



 +1

 cheers,
 Martin
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[Talk-us] Abandoned Buildings in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Greetings US OSM'ers,

I'm working with some other locals on another import, this time for
Baltimore City. In thinking of good attributes to add to buildings, I
thought it might be pertinent to denote the city's 16K+ vacant buildings
[1] on the OSM buildings. Have other people been doing this? According to
the wiki [2], it seems like the best tagging would be either
abandoned:building=yes or a combo of building=yes and
abandoned:building=yes.

The full import is still in development so I'll share more to the imports
list when it is ready for primetime. Until them I'm just interested if
people are mechanically describing vacant buildings.

Best,

Elliott

[1] https://data.baltimorecity.gov/Housing-Development/Vacant-Buildings
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:abandoned
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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned Buildings in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

In the dataset, those ones are owned by the city. When the property becomes
vacant and the landlord can't pay the taxes, the landlords default and the
city scoops the property up for non-payment of taxes. The 16K in this
dataset are just the ones the city owns. There are apparently many more
that are held by banks or someone hoping to make a buck if gentrification
expands there. Here is a typical street with vacants in Baltimore [1].

If I were to classify abandoned buildings myself, I'd go by the wiki
definition which would include buildings that have fallen into serious
disrepair and which could only be put back into operation with expensive
effort [2]. However, if we even include the data, it would only be for
buildings the city has identified as vacant.

You've raised a good point that it'd be hard to mechanically determine
whether a building is abandoned or disused. I'll have to check if the
dataset is only for truly abandoned buildings like the ones above.

Kindly,

Elliott

[1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/sandrabitar/3771516836/
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:abandoned

On Mon Jan 12 2015 at 4:39:52 PM Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:

 On 1/12/15 4:27 PM, Elliott Plack wrote:

 I'm working with some other locals on another import, this time for
 Baltimore City. In thinking of good attributes to add to buildings, I
 thought it might be pertinent to denote the city's 16K+ vacant buildings
 [1] on the OSM buildings. Have other people been doing this? According to
 the wiki [2], it seems like the best tagging would be either
 abandoned:building=yes or a combo of building=yes and
 abandoned:building=yes.

  what is the definition you are using for abandoned?

 here in Albany there is a major problem with empty
 buildings with absentee landlords who are not maintaining
 the buildings. how would Baltimore classify these?

 richard

 -- rwe...@averillpark.net
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practices for high-density residential

[Elliott Plack]

Mark,

Regarding dealing with high density areas, the issue has been discussed in
some detail over on the LA Buildings import repository on GitHub. Check out
the discussion and maps: https://github.com/osmlab/labuildings/issues/9

-Elliott

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 8:43 PM Mark Bradley ethnicfoodisgr...@gmail.com
wrote:

 I'm planning to import all the addressed buildings in Indianapolis into
 OSM.  Others have done similar things in other places.  I have an
 advantage, in that I have access to Indianapolis' GIS data, so the building
 outlines are already created.  The addresses are attached to the buildings
 too.  So I wouldn't worry about having too much detail.



 Mark



 



 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:59:56 -0700

 From: Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com

 To: Steve Friedl st...@unixwiz.net

 Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org

 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Best practices for high-density residential

 areas

 Message-ID: ade6e936-2a55-4747-b554-5fcc116a3...@fitchdesign.com

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8





  On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Steve Friedl st...@unixwiz.net wrote:

 

  Hi all,

 

  I’ve been doing OSM for around a month, and have been mainly focusing on
 my

  local neighborhood in Foothill Ranch (Orange County in Southern
 California).

  As a kind of showcase I'm going quite hyperbolic with detail, far more
 than

  I'd do anywhere else, and it's been helpful to understand the tradeoffs
 of

  effort vs results.

 

  My area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/33.6851/-117.6514 - it's
 the

  whole set of tracts that form a thumb above Bake Parkway.

 

  1) Address points –vs- house outlines?

 

  . . .

 

  What are the thoughts on points vs outlines?

 



 What we focus on mapping depends on our individual interests. For myself
 in built up areas that will be things that make automobile routing better
 (addresses, speed limits, turn lanes, road surfaces). I do, however, map
 buildings fairly often when adding addresses.



 I prefer outlines but don’t always use them. Usually I’ll put in points
 after my initial walking survey as it is fast and easy. Using OSMpad and
 JOSM it only takes a couple of minutes to upload address points. But it
 takes time to trace the building outlines from MapBox or Bing imagery so
 that comes later or not at all depending on my interest in the area.



 

  2) Are rectangular house outlines good enough?

 

 



 If I am taking the time to do a building outline then I like it to be as
 faithful to the actual outline as I can make it.



 

  3) Driveways?

 

  Most houses are obviously on one street or another, but some houses are
 on a

  corner, or are with multiple houses sharing a common driveway, so adding
 the

  actual driveways helps make it clear how it's laid out.

 

  Example: the houses at the north end of Calotte Place:

  http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.68120/-117.64836layers=N



 I’ve only bothered adding driveways in a suburban area if there were a
 cluster of houses with a shared driveway away from the street where they
 are officially numbered. That said, I like the look of the area were you
 put in all driveways.



 In terms of clutter, I don’t consider the level of detail you have put in
 here clutter at all. I rather like the level of detail even if I don’t go
 that far myself.



 Cheers,

 Tod


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[Talk-us] NYC High Line is Wonky on OSM

[Elliott Plack]

Friends,

I was attempting to do some pedestrian routing on the High Line (the
elevated park in NYC, see Wikipedia for background) and noticed some
oddities about how it was mapped on OSM. Quickly, this is a former elevated
train viaduct that has been converted into a popular park in Manhattan.
Since this is a popular area, I thought I'd ask the community first. Things
I've noticed:

1. There is a 'building=yes' way for the entire elevated portion, including
many of the supports that hold the platform up. This is pretty cool, and
probably looks neat in 3D. There are some building overlaps, where the line
goes through some buildings. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37054313
1a. The building also has the park tagging, which doesn't show up on the
map when tagged to the same way (apparently).
2. There are two parallel ways on the northern part of the park, one for
the former railway, another for the path. I believe that these should be
merged or at least share points. The former railway IS the pedestrian path,
so no need for parallel ways, right?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/46481094
2a. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305761607
3. Stairs like this should connect to the street.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305761606
4. The 'highway=pedestrian' portion is not tagged as a bridge, which it is,
arguably. But then, if the viaduct is a 'building', is it actually a
bridge? I think it should be tagged as a bridge for cartography purposes.
4a. The 'highway=pedestrian' way does not have a name. The building does,
but that doesn't render well. Named ways should be named, right?
5. There are several 'highway=pedestrian' areas like this one. Is there a
better tag for open space like this?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/277945794
6. Things get really crazy with the building passages.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/277885773
7. There are a few oddities about the paths extending out from this node,
all these crossing ways are hard to comprehend.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2823299563

Local mappers have clearly spent a lot of time on this, anyone have any
feedback about how this could be mapped better, if at all?


Best,

Elliott
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Re: [Talk-us] NYS ortho imagery layers

[Elliott Plack]

Richard,

Nice. You should add that info here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aerial_imagery

Elliott

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:05 PM Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:

 there are a number of orthoimagery layers available from
 New York State, beginning with 2000. i have inquired about
 any usage restrictions and according to Ray Faught of the NYS
 GIS Program Office, they are free for public use without
 restriction.

 the layers may be found here:

 http://www.orthos.dhses.ny.gov/arcgis/rest/services

 for each set, there are links for WMS and json at the top of
 the page.

 richard

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Re: [Talk-us] National Forest nature_reserve?

[Elliott Plack]

I've also imported a fair bit of state forests, parks, wildlife areas and
the like. From what I've read and interpreted, the boundary=protected_area
schema with all of its related tags are the *new* way of doing it, and
leisure=nature_reserve is the *old* way. Protected forests are literally
reserved nature, but the leisure part is a bit misguided.

I think that the folks that planned the boundary=protected_area tags would
probably like to see the leisure=nature_reserve and the one for parks
deprecated, but for now, we're seeing both tagging schemas used.

Examples:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3681581
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3681587

Best,

Elliott

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 9:11 PM stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

 I tag landuse=forest on National Forests.  If there are any included
 wilderness areas, I tag them leisure=nature_reserve.  Sometimes these
 boundaries can be quite complex via multipolygons, but I try to keep
 it as simple as this, and I seldom get people arguing with these
 tagging conventions.

 SteveA
 California
 (after tagging a good many National Forests and their included
 Wildernesses in California)

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Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US

[Elliott Plack]

Greetings all. I called the UN (at 212-963-4475 then 0, 1 ask for security)
and asked for you all. They said that laptop bags and standard briefcases
are fine, even if they're larger than 14. They said just* no suitcases
or carry-on bags*. So, I think you will probably be fine with a
lightweight laptop bag.

Interestingly, they weren't aware of any conferences this weekend.
Hopefully that gets communicated to them soon. :)

Elliott

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 10:23 AM Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:

 On 6/4/15 10:09 AM, Richard Welty wrote:
  i strongly recommend checking with the UN on this as it's pretty
  severe. as it is, i'm going to have to make an emergency run to
  staples tomorrow morning to see what they have in stock, and i'll have
  to buy two if my daughter's backpack doesn't pass muster. richard
 ok, if this rule applies, it will be a disaster. a quick review of the
 staples
 website shows a tiny number of bags that might work (2 or 3), all of which
 are available online, 10 business days to ship.

 richard

 --
 rwe...@averillpark.net
  Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
  Java - Web Applications - Search


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Re: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap US chapter board elections

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks Paul and Henk for the counting. I appreciated the opportunity to run
and will continue to stay involved! See you all at SOTMUS 2016.

Elliott

Sent by a device more powerful than the computer systems that put a man on
the moon

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:12 PM Steven Johnson  wrote:

> Thank you, Paul & Henk and congratulations to the board. It's going to be
> a good year.
>
> --SEJ
>
> Sent from my electronic tether.
>
> > On 2015年10月21日, at 17:28, Paul Norman  wrote:
> >
> > As one of the independent scrutineers for the OSM US Election, I have
> completed counting votes, and Ian Dees, Alex Barth, Alyssa Wright, Martijn
> van Exel, and Drishtie Patel have been elected to the OpenStreetMap US
> board.
> >
> > The full announcement with a table of numbers is at
> https://openstreetmap.us/2015/10/election-results/. There were 165
> responses, but 8 uncompleted ballots for a total of 157 people voting.
> >
> > Vote tallies were obtained from the online service used for votes. Voter
> information was spot-checked against the membership list provided by
> OpenStreetMap US.
> >
> > An average of 4.28 votes were cast per completed ballot.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone who ran and was involved in the election, including
> the other scrutineer, Henk Hoff.
> >
> > --
> > Paul Norman
> >
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[Talk-us] 0,0 Cleanup

[Elliott Plack]

Folks,

There's a lot of sandbox type data at 0°, 0° on OSM. Any special method to
clean that up? I noticed it on the Mapbox Foursquare map, because creating
lists defaults the map to 0,0 at z10. Any way we can polish that area up?

Best,

Elliott
-- 
Elliott Plack
http://elliottplack.me
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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[Elliott Plack]

I am now leaning towards the shoulder tag, and perhaps recommending that
the routing tools consider that. In this case there is no official bike
lane, just a shoulder.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:01 AM Mike Dupont 
wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> > cycleway=lane
>
> I think these are just shoulders used for biking not bike lanes. I
> have not seen any bike lanes so far.
>
>
> --
> James Michael DuPont
> Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
> Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
> http://openkansas.us
> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org
> Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
> http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[Elliott Plack]

Mike,

I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use the
cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are part of
the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane). Though
in this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is certain is
that most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway

I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project. Cycle
and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and so I
looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared lanes
and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature

Elliott

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont 
wrote:

> Hi there,
> This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
> many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
> people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
> so that we can also use that for routing?
>
> Here is a table of the segments with lane information
>
> http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf
>
> I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
> detailed tagging for this information.
>
>
> thanks
> mike
>
> --
> James Michael DuPont
> Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
> Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
> http://openkansas.us
> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org
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> http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
>
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[Talk-us] User HomocideBaltimore adding fake / fictional / old data all over Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

This is very strange! The user HomicideBaltimore has been mapping all kinds
of buildings around Baltimore that don't exist. They're old public housing
projects or rowhomes that were razed, but seem to have been used on the set
of the NBC show Homicide, Life on the Streets, shot in Baltimore.

What should I do?

This user is introducing all kinds of invalid data, and fair thoroughly
mapped stuff too. All in iD, which is odd. The current Bing imagery shows
none of this. I am shocked that someone would spend this much time on such
a thing.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3726365602 - Police station in the show,
not a real police station.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33940333 this block was razed years
ago, and has been replaced by a new building.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33889607 This area has been cleared
and replaced by some new buildings.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/HomicideBaltimore/history#map=15/39.3011/-76.5900

There are nearly 200 changsets around Baltimore like this! I have spent
considerable time mapping in this area, adding the brownfields and such.
Not to mention the Baltimore Import, much of which is being trashed by this
user.

What can be done? I commented on one changeset, but I don't have any
experience reverting things.

Elliott
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Re: [Talk-us] User HomocideBaltimore adding fake / fictional / old data all over Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Mike, did you change anything since?

Mike and I were chatting offline about this but I don't think either of us
edited anything. I'm on mobile now, will need to check the versions when I
get back to a desk.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:48 Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 09/11/2015 05:08 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
> > I've added at least one changeset comment and have also sent a message.
> > The user has not responded to either.
>
> Given that the user has obviously read and ignored Paul's block message,
> I have had to put in a new block, and have reverted all his edits in
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33960782.
>
> There were a few objects touched by HomicideBaltimore and later edited
> by someone else so that they could not be reverted cleanly:
>
> relation 1572798 to version 44
> relation 1793885 to version 9
>
> way 16678913 to version 14
> way 16667804 to version 2
> way 336294939 to version 9
> way 239149691 to version 3
> way 16710628 to version 3
> way 357518688 to version 1
> way 16667977 to version 5
> way 16667803 to version 2
> way 277183033 to version 1
> way 237042447 to version 1
> way 16667806 to version 2
> way 16720899 to version 8
>
> node 172413345 to version 4
> node 251856525 to version 2
> node 251856526 to version 2
> node 251856527 to version 2
> node 172413348 to version 6
> node 172413352 to version 5
> node 172413355 to version 5
> node 172413357 to version 5
> node 251856534 to version 1
> node 172413345 to version 4
> node 251856534 to version 1
> node 172413355 to version 5
> node 172413348 to version 6
> node 251856526 to version 2
> node 251856525 to version 2
> node 1631252463 to version 1
> node 251856527 to version 2
> node 172413357 to version 5
> node 172413352 to version 5
>
> I *can* force these objects back to their pre-HomicideBaltimore state
> but that would lose information potentially added by someone
> post-HomicideBaltimore. Perhaps someone could have a look and suggest
> the best course of action.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [Talk-us] User HomocideBaltimore adding fake / fictional / old data all over Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Also I wrote one change set comment but there was no response. I figured I
should escalate things once I saw entire relations destroyed and whole
blocks changed.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:55 Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike, did you change anything since?
>
> Mike and I were chatting offline about this but I don't think either of us
> edited anything. I'm on mobile now, will need to check the versions when I
> get back to a desk.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:48 Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 09/11/2015 05:08 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
>> > I've added at least one changeset comment and have also sent a message.
>> > The user has not responded to either.
>>
>> Given that the user has obviously read and ignored Paul's block message,
>> I have had to put in a new block, and have reverted all his edits in
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33960782.
>>
>> There were a few objects touched by HomicideBaltimore and later edited
>> by someone else so that they could not be reverted cleanly:
>>
>> relation 1572798 to version 44
>> relation 1793885 to version 9
>>
>> way 16678913 to version 14
>> way 16667804 to version 2
>> way 336294939 to version 9
>> way 239149691 to version 3
>> way 16710628 to version 3
>> way 357518688 to version 1
>> way 16667977 to version 5
>> way 16667803 to version 2
>> way 277183033 to version 1
>> way 237042447 to version 1
>> way 16667806 to version 2
>> way 16720899 to version 8
>>
>> node 172413345 to version 4
>> node 251856525 to version 2
>> node 251856526 to version 2
>> node 251856527 to version 2
>> node 172413348 to version 6
>> node 172413352 to version 5
>> node 172413355 to version 5
>> node 172413357 to version 5
>> node 251856534 to version 1
>> node 172413345 to version 4
>> node 251856534 to version 1
>> node 172413355 to version 5
>> node 172413348 to version 6
>> node 251856526 to version 2
>> node 251856525 to version 2
>> node 1631252463 to version 1
>> node 251856527 to version 2
>> node 172413357 to version 5
>> node 172413352 to version 5
>>
>> I *can* force these objects back to their pre-HomicideBaltimore state
>> but that would lose information potentially added by someone
>> post-HomicideBaltimore. Perhaps someone could have a look and suggest
>> the best course of action.
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] User HomocideBaltimore adding fake / fictional / old data all over Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

It looks like the user is at it again with the old account, has two edits 2
hours ago!

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Homicide%20Baltimore/history#map=15/39.2903/-76.5970

Here they just undid one of the reverted EDITS again:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33966044

Here they just undid another one of the reverts, deleting Johns Hopkins
Hospital and a bunch of the road infrastructure was altered.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33966182

The last one I had already manually changed back, as it was one POI edit,
again the fake police station from the NBC show with the users name.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29141714

Block and revert?

Elliott



On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:58 PM Mike Pruett <ad...@mapsplease.net> wrote:

> I see that most everything looks to be reverted. I noticed though there is
> a second account 'Baltimore Homicide' with a space. This account is older
> but with only 3 edits.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Friday, September 11, 2015, Mike Pruett <ad...@mapsplease.net> wrote:
>
>> I didn't change anything since HomicideBaltimore, only looked at the
>> damage.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Friday, September 11, 2015, Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike, did you change anything since?
>>>
>>> Mike and I were chatting offline about this but I don't think either of
>>> us edited anything. I'm on mobile now, will need to check the versions when
>>> I get back to a desk.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:48 Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On 09/11/2015 05:08 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
>>>> > I've added at least one changeset comment and have also sent a
>>>> message.
>>>> > The user has not responded to either.
>>>>
>>>> Given that the user has obviously read and ignored Paul's block message,
>>>> I have had to put in a new block, and have reverted all his edits in
>>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33960782.
>>>>
>>>> There were a few objects touched by HomicideBaltimore and later edited
>>>> by someone else so that they could not be reverted cleanly:
>>>>
>>>> relation 1572798 to version 44
>>>> relation 1793885 to version 9
>>>>
>>>> way 16678913 to version 14
>>>> way 16667804 to version 2
>>>> way 336294939 to version 9
>>>> way 239149691 to version 3
>>>> way 16710628 to version 3
>>>> way 357518688 to version 1
>>>> way 16667977 to version 5
>>>> way 16667803 to version 2
>>>> way 277183033 to version 1
>>>> way 237042447 to version 1
>>>> way 16667806 to version 2
>>>> way 16720899 to version 8
>>>>
>>>> node 172413345 to version 4
>>>> node 251856525 to version 2
>>>> node 251856526 to version 2
>>>> node 251856527 to version 2
>>>> node 172413348 to version 6
>>>> node 172413352 to version 5
>>>> node 172413355 to version 5
>>>> node 172413357 to version 5
>>>> node 251856534 to version 1
>>>> node 172413345 to version 4
>>>> node 251856534 to version 1
>>>> node 172413355 to version 5
>>>> node 172413348 to version 6
>>>> node 251856526 to version 2
>>>> node 251856525 to version 2
>>>> node 1631252463 to version 1
>>>> node 251856527 to version 2
>>>> node 172413357 to version 5
>>>> node 172413352 to version 5
>>>>
>>>> I *can* force these objects back to their pre-HomicideBaltimore state
>>>> but that would lose information potentially added by someone
>>>> post-HomicideBaltimore. Perhaps someone could have a look and suggest
>>>> the best course of action.
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>> Frederik
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
>>>> E008°23'33"
>>>>
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Re: [Talk-us] User HomocideBaltimore adding fake / fictional / old data all over Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Here is more evidence. Sigh...


[image: 2015-09-11 17_12_59-OpenStreetMap _ Node History_ 2961990839.png]
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:11 PM Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It looks like the user is at it again with the old account, has two edits
> 2 hours ago!
>
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Homicide%20Baltimore/history#map=15/39.2903/-76.5970
>
> Here they just undid one of the reverted EDITS again:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33966044
>
> Here they just undid another one of the reverts, deleting Johns Hopkins
> Hospital and a bunch of the road infrastructure was altered.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33966182
>
> The last one I had already manually changed back, as it was one POI edit,
> again the fake police station from the NBC show with the users name.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29141714
>
> Block and revert?
>
> Elliott
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:58 PM Mike Pruett <ad...@mapsplease.net> wrote:
>
>> I see that most everything looks to be reverted. I noticed though there
>> is a second account 'Baltimore Homicide' with a space. This account is
>> older but with only 3 edits.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 11, 2015, Mike Pruett <ad...@mapsplease.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't change anything since HomicideBaltimore, only looked at the
>>> damage.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 11, 2015, Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike, did you change anything since?
>>>>
>>>> Mike and I were chatting offline about this but I don't think either of
>>>> us edited anything. I'm on mobile now, will need to check the versions when
>>>> I get back to a desk.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:48 Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/11/2015 05:08 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
>>>>> > I've added at least one changeset comment and have also sent a
>>>>> message.
>>>>> > The user has not responded to either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that the user has obviously read and ignored Paul's block
>>>>> message,
>>>>> I have had to put in a new block, and have reverted all his edits in
>>>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33960782.
>>>>>
>>>>> There were a few objects touched by HomicideBaltimore and later edited
>>>>> by someone else so that they could not be reverted cleanly:
>>>>>
>>>>> relation 1572798 to version 44
>>>>> relation 1793885 to version 9
>>>>>
>>>>> way 16678913 to version 14
>>>>> way 16667804 to version 2
>>>>> way 336294939 to version 9
>>>>> way 239149691 to version 3
>>>>> way 16710628 to version 3
>>>>> way 357518688 to version 1
>>>>> way 16667977 to version 5
>>>>> way 16667803 to version 2
>>>>> way 277183033 to version 1
>>>>> way 237042447 to version 1
>>>>> way 16667806 to version 2
>>>>> way 16720899 to version 8
>>>>>
>>>>> node 172413345 to version 4
>>>>> node 251856525 to version 2
>>>>> node 251856526 to version 2
>>>>> node 251856527 to version 2
>>>>> node 172413348 to version 6
>>>>> node 172413352 to version 5
>>>>> node 172413355 to version 5
>>>>> node 172413357 to version 5
>>>>> node 251856534 to version 1
>>>>> node 172413345 to version 4
>>>>> node 251856534 to version 1
>>>>> node 172413355 to version 5
>>>>> node 172413348 to version 6
>>>>> node 251856526 to version 2
>>>>> node 251856525 to version 2
>>>>> node 1631252463 to version 1
>>>>> node 251856527 to version 2
>>>>> node 172413357 to version 5
>>>>> node 172413352 to version 5
>>>>>
>>>>> I *can* force these objects back to their pre-HomicideBaltimore state
>>>>> but that would lose information potentially added by someone
>>>>> post-HomicideBaltimore. Perhaps someone could have a look and suggest
>>>>> the best course of action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bye
>>>>> Frederik
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
>>>>> E008°23'33"
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
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Re: [Talk-us] More strangeness in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

This changeset has the exact same extent of the earlier ones from the
BmoreHomicide user. Seems like they made a new account. Watch that one for
any additional changesets.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 3:56 PM Toby Murray  wrote:

> Agreed. The 7-Eleven shop this user added (twice - once as a node,
> once as a way) does not appear on the store locator on 7-eleven.com.
> While it wouldn't be entirely out of the question that OSM had a newer
> location than the chain's own store locator, the edits do seem very
> much the same as those from the previous two accounts that were banned
> so I'm pretty convinced it is the same person. Looks like Andy just
> blocked him again. I'll do a quick revert of the changesets.
>
> Toby
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Jack Burke  wrote:
> > I'll put money on it being the same vandal.
> > 1) The account was created today
> > 2) The account profile has the following on it: "Homicide: Life On The
> > Street Baltimore 1990"
> >
> > -jack
> >
> > On September 14, 2015 1:26:47 PM EDT, Andy Townsend 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Can any Baltimore locals veryify or otherwise the changes in
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34024769 ?
> >>
> >> It looks a similar style to the recent problematical ones there and at
> >> the very least that one seems to break some bus route relations.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Andy Townsend (SomeoneElse)
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> Talk-us mailing list
> >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
> >
> > --
> > Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology.
> >
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Re: [Talk-us] More strangeness in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Hans: I saw they had been blocked but it expired:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Police%20Department%20Of%20New%20York%20City%20Of%20New%20York/blocks

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 1:40 PM Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Did his new account get blocked too?
> On Sep 15, 2015 12:22 PM, "Elliott Plack" <elliott.pl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This changeset has the exact same extent of the earlier ones from the
>> BmoreHomicide user. Seems like they made a new account. Watch that one for
>> any additional changesets.
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 3:56 PM Toby Murray <toby.mur...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed. The 7-Eleven shop this user added (twice - once as a node,
>>> once as a way) does not appear on the store locator on 7-eleven.com.
>>> While it wouldn't be entirely out of the question that OSM had a newer
>>> location than the chain's own store locator, the edits do seem very
>>> much the same as those from the previous two accounts that were banned
>>> so I'm pretty convinced it is the same person. Looks like Andy just
>>> blocked him again. I'll do a quick revert of the changesets.
>>>
>>> Toby
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Jack Burke <burke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I'll put money on it being the same vandal.
>>> > 1) The account was created today
>>> > 2) The account profile has the following on it: "Homicide: Life On The
>>> > Street Baltimore 1990"
>>> >
>>> > -jack
>>> >
>>> > On September 14, 2015 1:26:47 PM EDT, Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Can any Baltimore locals veryify or otherwise the changes in
>>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34024769 ?
>>> >>
>>> >> It looks a similar style to the recent problematical ones there and at
>>> >> the very least that one seems to break some bus route relations.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >>
>>> >> Andy Townsend (SomeoneElse)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> Talk-us mailing list
>>> >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology.
>>> >
>>> > ___
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>>> >
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Re: [Talk-us] More strangeness in Baltimore

[Elliott Plack]

Yes. They must be running out of email addresses to use.
On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 19:38 Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> That's the user's 3rd account?
>
> *Regards,*
>
> *Hans*
>
> *http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13>*
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hans: I saw they had been blocked but it expired:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Police%20Department%20Of%20New%20York%20City%20Of%20New%20York/blocks
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 1:40 PM Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did his new account get blocked too?
>>> On Sep 15, 2015 12:22 PM, "Elliott Plack" <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This changeset has the exact same extent of the earlier ones from the
>>>> BmoreHomicide user. Seems like they made a new account. Watch that one for
>>>> any additional changesets.
>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 3:56 PM Toby Murray <toby.mur...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. The 7-Eleven shop this user added (twice - once as a node,
>>>>> once as a way) does not appear on the store locator on 7-eleven.com.
>>>>> While it wouldn't be entirely out of the question that OSM had a newer
>>>>> location than the chain's own store locator, the edits do seem very
>>>>> much the same as those from the previous two accounts that were banned
>>>>> so I'm pretty convinced it is the same person. Looks like Andy just
>>>>> blocked him again. I'll do a quick revert of the changesets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Toby
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Jack Burke <burke...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > I'll put money on it being the same vandal.
>>>>> > 1) The account was created today
>>>>> > 2) The account profile has the following on it: "Homicide: Life On
>>>>> The
>>>>> > Street Baltimore 1990"
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -jack
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On September 14, 2015 1:26:47 PM EDT, Andy Townsend <
>>>>> ajt1...@gmail.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Can any Baltimore locals veryify or otherwise the changes in
>>>>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34024769 ?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It looks a similar style to the recent problematical ones there and
>>>>> at
>>>>> >> the very least that one seems to break some bus route relations.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Andy Townsend (SomeoneElse)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Talk-us mailing list
>>>>> >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>>>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ___
>>>>> > Talk-us mailing list
>>>>> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[Elliott Plack]

I've also been researching this with some local traffic engineers / road
fans. There are still instances of this sign being posted, mostly on dirt
roads where the DOT does not want tracked vehicles like bulldozers--or
tanks--to drive them.

That said, I don't see an applicable access restriction for tracked
vehicles on the OSM access tagging list.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 1:35 AM Greg Morgan <dr.kludge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Harald Kliems <kli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Very useful, Simon. Thanks!
>>
>> Slightly OT: Can anybody explain what R5-5, "No vehicles with lugs"
>> means? I'm assuming it doesn't refer to vehicles like this
>> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MyBrrEGexIg/TEIogw5nrdI/AFk/Jl7SF5tfQV0/s1600/L9990154.JPG
>>
>>
>>
>>>
> You made me look...
>
> In the early years of the 20th century, hard-surface roads often had signs
> that read: “Tractors with Lugs Prohibited.”
>
> Those early tractors were built with steel wheels covered with piercing
> lugs that gouged every surface. I remember the signs on U.S. 63 south of
> Stewartville to Racine and then on Minnesota Highway 16 going west to Grand
> Meadow.
>
> By the late 1930s, tractors finally were being built with rubber tires
> that still gave field traction and speed, sometimes up to 20 mph on the
> road.
>
> ...
>
>
> http://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/tractors-with-lugs-were-dangerous/article_580aa04a-5d73-5de1-8139-7b402a63ba90.html
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[Elliott Plack]

Reading from http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-04-28/html/2011-10258.htm

> The FHWA's current definition of a motorcycle is two-fold: (1)
Motorcycles, and (2) motor bicycles and scooters. The specific language
for defining motorcycles, provided in FHWA's Guide, follows:

>Item I.E.2. Motorcycles: This item includes two-wheeled and three-
wheeled motorcycles. Sidecars are not regarded as separate
vehicles--a motorcycle and sidecar are reported as a single unit.
>Item I.E.3. Motor bicycles and scooters: Mopeds should be included
with motor-driven cycles (motor bicycles) in the States that require
their registration.

The article goes on to say that the laws vary greatly by state when
defining what a moped is, so I suppose consumers of OSM routing restriction
data would need to be cognizant of the local laws, just as the users of the
roads in those states should be.

Laws that define a motor-driven cycle that list a max speed or engine
displacement (CC) may or may not include Mofas.

Perhaps put a caveat that restrictions vary by local law?

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 4:32 AM Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> wrote:

> Well ... the definitions are very fuzzy  (this is just so that you are
> aware that there is potential for conflict): mopeds* are in general just
> low displacement motorcycles, historically with pedals , but that is
> typically no longer a legal requirement. For example there are scooters
> that fall in this class. Mofas on the other hand, where the class exists,
> typically have a requirement for pedals (adding pedelecs in to the mix just
> makes things more complicated so leaving that away for now).
>
> Obviously a moped without pedals is fairly dead when the motor isn't
> running :-)
>
> Simon
>
> * just to confuse things in Germany it is colloquially quite common to
> refer to any motorcycle as "moped" (even my 1300cc beemer)
>
>
> Am 02.12.2015 um 10:13 schrieb Paul Johnson:
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've changed the relevant tags to moped=no. Any opinion on if mopeds
>> would be included in "motor vehicles"? I don't think I've ever seen a mofa
>> in the states (I find people on Vespas in the states already fairly brave)
>> but what about pedelecs and similar?
>>
>
> A moped would qualify as both a motor vehicle and a bicycle, which it is
> (and whether or not it can use bicycle lanes and cycleways) is determined
> by whether or not the motor is running.
>
>
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[Talk-us] Best practices for coastline to Inland Bay / River transition

[Elliott Plack]

Greetings,

What are the current accepts best practices for determining where to "cut
off" the coastline and to begin a river or bay type feature? The wiki seems
to be in disagreement about this, and I've read chatter about switching to
ocean polygons.

Let's take the mighty Potomac River. It is tidal from the mouth to points
upstream from Washinton, DC, yet at some point it switches to waterway
areas and relations. Would it be appropriate to transition the entire river
to a multipolygon and end the ocean at the mouth? Perhaps the whole
Chesapeake Bay should be upstream from the coastline. Anyone ever try
converting this massive coastline areas? What are the best practices?

Elliott
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[Talk-us] Papa John's Delivery Boundary in OSM

[Elliott Plack]

I'm not exactly sure what this is, but it is certainly and odd boundary.
The name since V1 is Papa Johns #2997. I wonder if it is actually a CDP or
maybe something that got merged incorrectly somehow. Any thoughts?
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Re: [Talk-us] Papa John's Delivery Boundary in OSM

[Elliott Plack]

Ah yes, I forgot to attach the link! Thanks Hans.

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 10:25 PM Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/51744998
>
> *Regards,*
>
> *Hans*
>
> *http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13>*
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Shawn K. Quinn <skqu...@rushpost.com>
> wrote:
>
>> If it really is a pizza restaurant's delivery boundary, then it should
>> just be deleted. Is there anything to indicate it might actually be
>> something else?
>>  Original message 
>> From: Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
>> Date: 2015/12/24 20:20 (GMT-06:00)
>> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Talk-us] Papa John's Delivery Boundary in OSM
>>
>> I'm not exactly sure what this is, but it is certainly and odd boundary.
>> The name since V1 is Papa Johns #2997. I wonder if it is actually a CDP or
>> maybe something that got merged incorrectly somehow. Any thoughts?
>> --
>> Elliott Plack
>> http://elliottplack.me
>>
>> _______
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>>
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[Talk-us] boundary with no relation or tags

[Elliott Plack]

I was working on updating the Maryland / VA border and came across a
boundary with no relations or attributes and wondered if it was safe to
delete. The VA border looks abysmal along this stretch, though this isn't
much better. I wondered if this is an attempt to clean it up? Either way,
would this be safe to delete? I usually don't mess with boundaries.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/60942704
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Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[Elliott Plack]

Ben,

I believe you're right, nice catch! "Motor bicycles and scooters: Mopeds
should be included with motor-driven cycles (motor bicycles) in the States"
(
http://mrf.org/library2/index.php/legislation-language/definitions/definition-motorcycle/fhwa-reclassification-of-motorcycles/
)

Additionally the one about "Non-Motorized" vehicles is somewhat confusing
and I don't think that I've ever seen it used. A bicycle is non-motorized,
but so is the trailer on a truck. What does it mean?

Elliott

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:23 AM Ben Miller <bborkmil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not familiar with the MUTCD, and a little Googling didn't get me any
> clarification, but I'm guessing that "motor-driven cycles" refers to mopeds
> and such, not to motorcycles.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:21 AM Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> wrote:
>
>> To give us all a break from the usual political machinations at this
>> time of year I've drawn up the following table
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_MUTCD_exclusionary_signs_to_OSM_access
>>
>> The context is the work I've been doing on
>> https://github.com/simonpoole/beautified-JOSM-preset which is the
>> default preset for Vespucci http://vespucci.io/ (obviously on mobile
>> devices being able to touch an icon is preferable to typing).
>>
>> Any opinions on the mappings, and what would you consider signs that you
>> frequently map?
>>
>> Feedback and patches welcome!
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[Elliott Plack]

Simon,

Great work so far! I enjoy reading the MUTCD (nerd alert). I'll think of
some things to add. So far I think we could include the no hazmat signs (
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/fig2b_30_longdesc.htm) which are
governed by the key:hazmat tag (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazmat).

I think that with more efforts these days to improve routing with street
signs (https://twitter.com/peterneubauer/status/671660804484239360), it
would be useful to create a 1:1 mapping of all MUTCD traffic control
devices. This list is a great starting point, as exclusions are important
to routing, and not typically observable via air photo.

Best,

Elliott

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:20 AM Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> wrote:

> To give us all a break from the usual political machinations at this
> time of year I've drawn up the following table
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_MUTCD_exclusionary_signs_to_OSM_access
>
> The context is the work I've been doing on
> https://github.com/simonpoole/beautified-JOSM-preset which is the
> default preset for Vespucci http://vespucci.io/ (obviously on mobile
> devices being able to touch an icon is preferable to typing).
>
> Any opinions on the mappings, and what would you consider signs that you
> frequently map?
>
> Feedback and patches welcome!
>
> Simon
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Is USBR 11 in Maryland complete/correct in OSM?

[Elliott Plack]

I've been out there a few times taking Mapillary photos along the route so
you can see some of the bike signage.
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3Aq9dVh3Av7K_di9KKUudQ/photo

This tiny one is my favorite. It's so small compared to the massive BGS:
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/8I80lkxdGCOgfsOCKDyYSg/photo

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:58 AM Kerry Irons <irons54vor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just to echo Steve’s comment on signs: encouraged but not required.
> Currently just under 18% of the USBRS is signed.  Budget is the issue, both
> at the state and local (non state highway) level.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
> *From:* OSM Volunteer stevea [mailto:stevea...@softworkers.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 1, 2016 8:26 PM
> *To:* Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Kerry Irons <irons54vor...@gmail.com>; FTA/Ethan <
> eman...@hotmail.com>; Wade <wade.cr...@comcast.net>; Phil! Gold <
> phi...@pobox.com>; talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: Is USBR 11 in Maryland complete/correct in OSM?
>
>
>
> Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Update on this. I was out along the AT in the Weverton area and had a
> chance to observe this unique condition where cyclists are encouraged to
> use what is effectively a motorway for travel.
>
>
>
> I always found my armchair mapping of this highly suspect and so I added
> copious tags that it still needed additional editing.  >1.5 years later,
> Elliott submits nice, solid work after a field trip.  Well, all right!
>
>
>
> There is no sign or specific indication of USBR 11 anywhere out there that
> I observed. What I did see was that the eastbound carriageway of US 340 had
> a green sign indicating that it was a bicycle route between the Keep Tryst
> Rd / Valley Rd intersection, and Exit 2, which had a sign indicating the
> bicycles must exit. The "Bike Route" signs did not have a number reference.
> There is a Bike Route sign on the exit to MD 67 as well, which is the part
> that is USBR 11.
>
>
>
> Kerry might remind everybody that signage is optional (I would say
> “encouraged” but I don’t think that is official) on the USBRS.  The route
> exists by state DOT declaration and “acceptance” into the national (non)
> network (called USBRS) by AASHTO.  Signs cost money and effort to erect:
>  sometimes there is budget to do so and the state DOT finds a way to erect
> signs, sometimes signage is a more grass-roots effort (fundraising,
> sign-raising…) than it is state (DOT) sanctioned or funded.  A Bike Route
> sign is a legal, MUTCD-acceptable way to sign here but I think we all agree
> the M1-9 sign (USBR 11) would be preferred.
>
>
>
> For the sections of US 340 where cyclists are allowed, I added the
> cycleway:right=shoulder tag. I also fixed any FIXMEs related to this
> condition.
>
>
>
> Thank you, thank you.
>
>
>
> Curiously, the eastbound carriageway is tagged as trunk, while the
> westbound is tagged motorway. While there is a single grade intersection
> along the eastbound portion (at Keep Tryst Rd), I think that this is
> probably not enough to call the entire section trunk. Thoughts on that?
>
>
>
> You did the field trip!  The whole area around Keep Tryst Road and how it
> interfaces with AT and bicycles is complicated, and now seems much better
> tagged.
>
>
>
> Finally, I also improved the routing of USBR 11 where it crosses the
> Potomac River on a shared-use rail bridge. There is a staircase to access
> the bridge that I added the steps tag too. I am not sure how bicycling
> routers, like OSRM or Strava will handle steps, but cyclists are allowed
> there provided they dismount (per signage).
>
>
>
> There is also a lcm (local cycleway network) around here with a staircase,
> it is near the Santa Cruz Boardwalk at the mouth of the San Lorenzo River.
> These things can get complicated, but I believe with the proper tagging of
> bicycle=dismount (to walk up or down stairs carrying your bicycle) that a
> router should be able to figure that out.  Especially if is part of a
> lcn/rcn/ncn.  Still, I wouldn’t mind a bicycle router showing “special”
> semiotics here (yellow or hatching or something like that).
>
>
>
> I have mapped my observations with this changeset:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/39027403
>
>
>
> Deeply appreciated.  This tagging and routing were a little sticky here,
> and now are much better.
>
>
>
> SteveA
>
> California
>
> USBRS WikiProject coordinator
>
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Re: [Talk-us] (Second attempt) Potential data source: Adirondack Park Freshwater Wetlands

[Elliott Plack]

I would argue that importing land-use that is difficult or tedious to trace
would encourage local mapping for the following three reasons:

1. It shows others that an area of the map has received some attention.
2. It produces "gaps," i.e. places where there are no wetlands or water
thus leaving a gray "hole" on the map, thus a mapper might look there to
add something, such as a camp site or some unknown settlement.
3. It exposes inaccurate TIGER roads and tracks, as these typically are on
embankments through wetlands.

Importing landuse adds visual beauty to the map in places where it would
take hordes of volunteers to trace wetlands, and experts to determine the
wetland classification. I think this is a good idea.

I've fiddled around with NWI data and OSM and usually the result is great.
While I'd concede that landuses do change, so to do other features that are
imported often (buildings and such). A map is always a snapshot in time,
and for the most part land use within a protected area is not subject to
much in the way of change.

I too enjoy mapping things related to wilderness areas. I've done a lot of
work around my area mapping trails, park boundaries, and hydrology. I think
it makes for beautiful and useful maps.

Examples:
Patapsco Valley Stake Park, Maryland:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/39.23160/-76.73002
Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/38.3810/-76.0343
Martin National Wildlife Refuge:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/38.0001/-76.0247

Best,

Elliott

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 5:19 PM Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:

> Kenny,
>
> On 02/27/2016 06:10 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> > Given the
> > difficulties inherent in getting changes made by local mappers working
> > independently (the data are a bit difficult to verify in the field),
> > it's arguable that we should always use third-party sources to make
> > our maps and have it be Someone Else's Problem. That said, we
> > unquestionably do have hydrography in OSM, and it doesn't in fact
> > require a lot of updating - these natural features are quite stable,
> > particularly in a remote area such as I'm considering here.
>
> Is there not the danger though of the data rotting away in OSM,
> precisely for the reasons you outline - difficult to map in the first
> place, Adirondack being huge, and all this being a too big project for
> one or even a handful persons?
>
> IMHO you'd be scratching an itch for now and making it easier for people
> to make maps with OSM, but a few years down the line, people will again
> have to turn to the (regularly updated, presumably?) government data and
> say, just like you said, that OSM is "among the poorest of what I have
> available"?
>
> An import is great if it enables a community to go further, or forms the
> basis of solid work in the future. An import is great if it is one
> ingredient that makes OSM the best map of the region. But it sounds to
> me as if your proposed import is hardly more than a small time saver for
> people who want to make maps of the Adirondack - they *could* go to the
> original source at any time, and the likelihood of OSM hydrography being
> *better* than the official data is very low.
>
> In my view, a good import is a catalyst for future OSM data improvement.
> But you seem to say quite clearly that such is unlikely to happen with
> the data you are planning to import. Your main point is that it'll look
> better on the map, which for me isn't good enough.
>
> Can you point to areas where your import would encourage mappers,
> including yourself, to add more knowledge and surveyed data to OSM?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
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Re: [Talk-us] Dakota County Mn Bulk Building and Address Import

[Elliott Plack]

Joe,

I agree with Greg that this is a great start. Let us know if you need help
with the import merge workflow, as you have that as TBD on the wiki. In one
import I used an ArcGIS workflow to detect and set aside conflicts, and in
another we used a PostGIS workflow. Chunking the data up by district or
neighborhood is a great way to spread out the work.

For existing buildings, I'd typically leave them in place (unless the
geometry was really poor in which case I'd remove them) and just import an
address point (assuming that info was missing from the existing building,
as it usually is). Then, if you want, you can conflate the address points.

To Frederik's points, I definitely agree that adding source tags to the
buildings is no longer a best practice. Changeset tags are the way to go,
especially now that people can comment on your changesets. I suggest that
you add the website=* tag on your changeset and link to the wiki, e.g.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/24847251#map=12/39.4017/-76.6022

Kindly,

Elliott


On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:04 AM Greg Morgan <dr.kludge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joe Sapletal <joe.saple...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I’m looking for some assistance and support for doing a Bulk Import of
>> buildings with address information.  I’ve already assembled the data from
>> the source, but I need help converting it and uploading it and to build
>> community support.  I started a wiki page here -
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Minnesota/DakotaCounty/Buildings_Import
>> it links to a couple of samples areas of the data.  One I’ve already
>> uploaded as a test at this location -
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/44.74096/-93.10751
>>
>>
>>
>> Any assistance would be great.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Joe,
>
> That is some beautiful work.  I like how you are limiting your work to a
> small area.  How are you going to grow otherwise?  I like how you are just
> working on an area that you have edited.  That respects other mapper's
> work.  One change that you should consider is how to merge these foot
> prints with other mapper's work.  For example, I looked at one building.[1]
> This is your own work.  However, I'd find a way to preserve the existing
> way and nodes so that you change the features in place.  It builds on other
> mapper's work.  I also included a link to whodidit for your area.[2]  I
> have whodidit zoomed in but the map may take a bit to load.  What you are
> looking for are mappers in your area that may want to take part in the
> effort.  Whodidit is just one example and one way to find this information.
>   You may find that there are no mappers in your area that have an interest
> in this effort. If that is the case, then there are other mappers in the US
> that would like to see you succeed in a positive way.  They may be willing
> to pitch in as part of a community effort as long as you have diced up the
> data for multiple mappers to participate.  I think you should start with
> the US mailing list for guidance.. I believe mappers on this list would be
> more helpful than on other lists. As you refine your process and get good
> feedback, then you can move to other lists for the final import plans.
>
> I hope this helps get you started,
> Greg Morgan
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/396603853/history
>
> http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/whodidit/?zoom=16=44.74246=-93.10183=BTT=1000
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Old Aerodromes

[Elliott Plack]

I am glad this conversation has restarted. A few of you, (Me, Paul,
others..) will recall a similar conversation on the openstreetmap-carto
repo a few years ago where I noted that there are simply too many of these
micro airports shown on the map. We discussed at great length how the
relative importance of aerodromes could potentially be used for rendering.

Given that map roulette is now handling these, I think this is a great time
to revisit this discussion. If maprouletters can change all these point
aerodromes to a polygon, then we can subjectively define airport importance
using the shape size.

Read up on GitHub:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1143


On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 1:42 PM Wolfgang Zenker <wolfg...@lyxys.ka.sub.org>
wrote:

> * Paul Norman <penor...@mac.com> [160412 17:27]:
> > On 4/12/2016 2:40 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> >> On Tuesday 12 April 2016, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> >>>> I was mapping some rural area in the U.S. and noticed, not for the
> >>>> first time, an aerodrome node in the middle of a field where there is
> >>>> obviously no airport or airfield.
>
> >> I am not sure here.  For small airfields the aeroway=aerodrome feature
> >> is a fairly abstract thing essentially indicating only that this is a
> >> place where aircrafts start or land.  This is not generally something
> >> that can be reliably determined from imagery.
>
> > You can't reliably find small airfields from imagery, but I've found it
> > possible to verify a lack of airfields from it. I pass though
> > agricultural areas, and the airfields that are still active all appear
> > somehow on imagery, even if it's just an area where the ground cover is
> > different. On the other hand, some of the aeroway=aerodrome we have data
> > for include points in fields of corn, residential areas, and stands of
> > trees.
>
> One added problem here is that the coordinates of imported data are
> not always that good. As an example check Zortman Airport
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1042048666
> The original import was more than half a mile off.
>
> Wolfgang
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Where to find airport information?

[Elliott Plack]

You can check ouraiports.com. It is a PD source that has been used for an
OSM import in the US:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Cataloguesearch for airport





On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:45 PM Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us>
wrote:

> Montana, like many western state, need help in rural areas. I have been
> wondering about an outreach program with local ag extensions, or Future
> Farmers of America, 4H, Boy Scouts, etc. I attended a small county fair
> last year. The local Future Farmers did a demo of remote subs they using to
> map ocean floors. It was part of a NASA (I think) program to get kids
> interested in science.
>
> Clifford
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Wolfgang Zenker <wolfg...@lyxys.ka.sub.org
> > wrote:
>
>> * Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us> [160306 16:14]:
>> > The first example you provided is located in Stillwater County, Montana.
>> > Stillwater has gis data available, but unfortunately for me requires
>> > Microsoft Silverlight browser plugin which I am not able to run. I would
>> > check the county gis database for more information. The website is
>> > http://www.stillwater.mt.gov/GIS/default.asp
>>
>> Silverlight is a no-go for me as well, I don't think it even exists
>> for my operating system.
>>
>> > There is even someone you could contact. I find most county gis
>> departments
>> > usually more than willing to help, especially if you ask nice. Even in
>> > counties without free data, they might be able to provide you with the
>> name
>> > of the runway.
>>
>> I will contact them as soon as I'm done with cleaning up TIGER geometries
>> in the area, because I have a few more questions (e.g. roads that look
>> a lot like residential roads, but with no name given on TIGER).
>> Thanks for the contact!
>>
>> > Have you contacted the user? While it looks like a runway, I'm not
>> certain
>> > that it is. Although, not sure what else it could be.
>>
>> Well, the user would be myself in this case, and I added these things
>> as runways because that is what they look like.
>>
>> > FWIW - I used to live in Montana and am familiar with parts of the
>> state.
>>
>> Great, so there are at least a few people in the project familiar
>> with Montana. I've been there only a few times as a tourist, and I
>> have been working on cleaning up TIGER geometries for Montana
>> basically because (almost) no-one else did. My hope is that we
>> find more mappers if one can start mapping without having to clean
>> up a lot of broken data first.
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
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>
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[Talk-us] Strategy for Naming Parts of a Large Park

[Elliott Plack]

The Patapsco Valley State Park (PVSP) (1) is a major state park in the
Baltimore area that Baltimore mappers (myself included) spent a lot of time
mapping. One issue I have with the current multipolygon is how to better
show map users the officially "named" areas.

PVSP consists of several nine or so areas (2) spread out over 30 miles of
the Patapsco River valley. Some of the parts are contiguous, others not.

What is a proper *strategy for adding these named parts to the map* such
that the relation remains? Perhaps a super-relation for the whole park,
with each smaller part as a sub relation/way?

Ultimately I'd like to see the areas rendered on the popular renderers,
since locals refer to the areas by their area name.

Best,

Elliott

(1) =
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2999749#map=11/39.2413/-76.8480=C
(2) =
http://dnr2.maryland.gov/publiclands/Documents/patapsco_overviewmap.pdf
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Re: [Talk-us] Representing census-designated places (CDP), Census County Division (CCD), etc

[Elliott Plack]

The approach to CDPs varies. Since the boundaries are only for statistics
and I'd argue that CDP boundaries are not really even boundaries in an
administrative sense. Still, the places often provide some value to the
map, such as place names. I like having them as points, at the CDP
centroid, as opposed to boundaries which tend to get cluttered and are
impossible to keep from moving around.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM Paul Norman <penor...@mac.com> wrote:

> On 4/28/2016 12:24 PM, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote:
> > We are having a discussion about representing statistical boundaries
> > in Brazil and while trying to search for similar cases I found that
> > your CDP (maybe CCD too) seems to be similar:
> >
> > "They don't have any legal status, or represent the jurisdiction of
> > any government. CDPs are created by the Census Bureau for statistical
> > purposes only." - from
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:boundary#United_States
> >
> > Do you represent them (and maybe other statistical boundaries) in OSM?
> > If yes, what are you using? (boundary=?, border_type=?, etc)
>
> We don't keep them as CDPs, except when they are commonly used by people
> outside the census. This is an uncommon situation, and to my knowledge,
> only the case in Alaska, which is unique in its administrative structure.
>
> A lot of CDPs were imported and are approximately the same as city
> boundaries, so these remain and get refined as a more accurate city
> boundary.
>
> Other CDPs are place=* areas, often with unincorporated towns.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Potential data source: New York City watershed recreation lands

[Elliott Plack]

at do not yet comprehend
>  the details of boundary=protected_area
>  boundary=protected_area
>  protect_class=12
>  protection_object=water
>  Tailor-made for this data set!
>  operator='New York City, Department of Environmental Protection,
>Bureau of Water Supply'
>  website=http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/recreation/index.shtml
>  name=(obtained from the 'unit' column of the list of sites, with
>  the word, 'Unit' postpended)
>  access=yes (if the 'PAA' column is 'Y') or access=license (if the
>  PAA column is 'N')
> access:license=
> http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/watershed_protection/recreation.shtml
>  if (access=license)
>  access:hiking=(value of the 'hike' column, normalized to 'yes' or
> 'no')
>  access:fishing=(value of the 'hike' column, normalized to 'yes' or
> 'no')
>  access:hunting=(value of the 'hike' column, normalized to 'yes' or
> 'no')
>  access:trapping=(value of the 'trap' column, normalized to 'yes'
>  or 'no')
>  nycdep:version=MMDDHHMMSS
>  UTC time returned as Date-Modified from the web site. See
>  below for rationale of retaining this information.
>
> I'm more than open to a different tagging scheme for 'access'. What
> the relevant restrictions are:
>
> PAA=Y areas are open to all comers, no permission needed, for the
> activities specitied. PAA=N areas require a free access permit
> obtainable at the web site
> http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/watershed_protection/recreation.shtml
>
> HIKE, FISH, HUNT, and TRAP describe the permitted activities (HIKE
> encompasses related activities such as photography, bird watching,
> etc.)
>
> The areas in which HIKE=N are all areas adjoining the
> reservoirs. Hiking with no other purpose is forbidden in these areas,
> as is the trapping of game. Hunters, fishermen and boaters accessing
> these areas must have valid licenses for these activities, and boats
> must be tagged by NYCDEP. Since all of the HIKE=N areas are also
> PAA=N, lawful users will have applied for an access permit and been
> presented with the restrictions, so I don't propose to model this
> complexity in the tagging, unless someone suggests a more obvious
> tagging scheme than I've been able to invent.
>
> CONFLATION AND UPDATE PLAN
>
> The initial conflation should be quite straightforward - simply query
> a PostGIS mirror for area features that overlap the supplied
> multipolygons by more than a trivial amount. (The cadastral data from
> the different agencies are not 100% consistent, so I expect that a few
> per cent of some parcels will overlap adjacent state forests, and
> intend to import these data as is. Rectifying misdrawn property lines
> is not our problem!) I propose simply to import the parcels into JOSM,
> resolve any JOSM-reported errors and warnings, and upload. I will
> likely work either by county or by township, depending on the number
> of parcels in a county, to keep each upload to a manageable size.
>
> Further updates in semi-automatic fashion should also be fairly
> straightforward. I propose to maintain a record of what has been
> uploaded, and when changes appear, check whether the OSM data for a
> parcel have changed from the previous upload. For unchanged parcels,
> the old can be replaced with the new withough stepping on any mapper's
> manual work, For new parcels, the upload can proceed. For changed
> parcels, the change has to be alerted for manual review. I expect that
> this last situation will be vanishingly rare. Of course, if the new
> upload results in a conflict (e.g., a substantial overlap with an area
> feature already in the database), the change will have to be flagged
> for manual review.
>
> FURTHER NOTES
>
> I'd much rather work from the bureau's own shapefiles, of course, but
> I've not yet managed to locate an appropriate contact to request
> them. Filing a demand under the Freedom of Information Law is often
> regarded as a hostile act, and I'd rather stay on good terms with the
> officials involved, so I prefer to proceed by less formal means. The
> 'web scraping' outlined above at least works, although I expect that
> it will be a brittle process in the long run. I'll keep casting about
> for a more robust way to handle this data set.
>
> NEXT STEPS
>
> Of course, I'll make source code of all scripts available for review
> and so that I can pass the baton for others to carry out the
> semiautomated update process if needed.
>
> If this proposal doesn't get roundly shot down, the next steps will be
> to create a project page on the wiki, link it to Import/Catalogue,
> clean up and publish the scripts, perform the import onto the test
> server, get a data review, and then update the Contributors page and
> do the import for real.
>
> Comments?
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests

[Elliott Plack]

/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/landcover
>
> Â
>
> From: OSM Volunteer stevea [ mailto:stevea...@softworkers.com
> <stevea...@softworkers.com>]
>
> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 3:29 PM
>
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests
>
> Â
>
> Mike Thompson writes:
>
> 1) I don't know how anyone would able to tell this from simple on the
> ground observation.
>
> Â
>
> Granted: Â from an on-the-ground observation, a landuse=forest might look
> very much like a natural=wood.  However, if you saw that part of the area
> had some stumps, you could safely conclude it is not natural=wood (unless
> there was "illegal logging†going on, and that DOES happen) but rather
> that it is landuse=forest.  THEN, there is where you know for a fact (from
> facts not on-the-ground, but perhaps from ownership data, signage like
> “Welcome to Sierra National Forest†or other sources) that THIS IS a
> real, live forest, in the sense OSM intends to mean here (landuse=forest
> implies timber harvesting now or at some point in the future).
>
> Â
>
>
> 2) While the English word "natural" might suggest this, we use "natural"
> for other things that man has a hand in creating or modifying, e.g.
> natural=water for a man made reservoir.
>
> Â
>
> Again, I’ll grant you this, but it only shows that OSM’s tagging is
> not always internally consistent.  I can live with that.  What is
> required (and “more clear" in the case of natural=water) is the
> understanding that consensus has emerged for natural=water: Â this gets
> tagged on bodies of water which are both natural and man-made, and that’s
> OK, and we don’t lose sleep over it or look for more consistency.Â
> It’s like an exception to a rule of grammar:  you just learn it, and say
> “shucks†that there are such things as grammatical exceptions.
>
> Â
>
> I’m doing my very best to listen, and it seems many others are, too.Â
> Listening is the heart of building consensus.  Let us not also become
> entrenched in minor exceptions or established conventions adding further
> confusion when identifying them as such actually can help us achieve more
> clarity.
>
> Â
>
>
> SteveA
>
> California
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> Charlotte Wolter
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Re: [Talk-us] Improving coverage of exit numbers and destinations on motorways

[Elliott Plack]

;> mapping community!
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Jinal Foflia
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jinalfoflia/diary/38501
>>>>
>>>> [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jinalfoflia/diary/38342
>>>>
>>>> [3] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/178
>>>>
>>>> [4] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/169
>>>>
>>>> [5] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/fzA
>>>>
>>>> [6]
>>>> https://gist.github.com/poornibadrinath/a8f3652deb566d95b848c5e9cd68011f
>>>>
>>>> [7]
>>>> https://gist.github.com/poornibadrinath/f982a947c6a063ed1a9016a2d3246d4a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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[Talk-us] Per-State relations for the Appalachian Trail

[Elliott Plack]

I've been doing some mapping along the Maryland portions of the Appalachian
Trail lately and noticed many issues along Maryland's section as well as
nearby Virginia and West Virginia where the route relations were not
continuous or overlapped other states'. Strava's slide has been quite
helpful in this effort, as has my own walking of the trail.

This got me thinking, is there any specific need to have the route broken
up by state? Unlike interstate highways, where maintenance changes across
state lines, at the border, the AT maintenance is handled by a trifecta of
federal agencies and a non-profit. There are also 31 clubs that share some
of the maintenance on some sections.

Given that it is clearly a challenge to keep all of the routes in order,
would there be any objection from the community to combining all of the
relations into one single route? Any technical issues or limitations here?
I think that having one long relation would make the continuity easier to
manage. (And I could be wrong! If so, let's figure out how to manage the
relation together.)

I've also noticed that most renderers do not seem to consider the hiking
route, but rather the tags on the individual segments, thus adding to the
complexity of normalizing some of the tagging across the country.

Current super-relation:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/156553#map=5/45.587/-61.941

Thanks,

Elliott
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Re: [Talk-us] Is USBR 11 in Maryland complete/correct in OSM?

[Elliott Plack]

Steve and Friends,

Update on this. I was out along the AT in the Weverton area and had a
chance to observe this unique condition where cyclists are encouraged to
use what is effectively a motorway for travel.

There is no sign or specific indication of USBR 11 anywhere out there that
I observed. What I did see was that the eastbound carriageway of US 340 had
a green sign indicating that it was a bicycle route between the Keep Tryst
Rd / Valley Rd intersection, and Exit 2, which had a sign indicating the
bicycles must exit. The "Bike Route" signs did not have a number reference.
There is a Bike Route sign on the exit to MD 67 as well, which is the part
that is USBR 11.

For the sections of US 340 where cyclists are allowed, I added the
cycleway:right=shoulder tag. I also fixed any FIXMEs related to this
condition.

Curiously, the eastbound carriageway is tagged as trunk, while the
westbound is tagged motorway. While there is a single grade intersection
along the eastbound portion (at Keep Tryst Rd), I think that this is
probably not enough to call the entire section trunk. Thoughts on that?

Finally, I also improved the routing of USBR 11 where it crosses the
Potomac River on a shared-use rail bridge. There is a staircase to access
the bridge that I added the steps tag too. I am not sure how bicycling
routers, like OSRM or Strava will handle steps, but cyclists are allowed
there provided they dismount (per signage).

I have mapped my observations with this changeset:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/39027403

Best,

Elliott

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:40 PM Kerry Irons <irons54vor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> When the locals have confirmed your work, let's provide a concise summary
> of
> the issues to MDOT.  I have the contact information in the agency.
>
>
> Kerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: stevea [mailto:stevea...@softworkers.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 2:32 PM
> To: FTA/Ethan; Elliott Plack; Wade; Phil! Gold; Kerry Irons
> Subject: Is USBR 11 in Maryland complete/correct in OSM?
>
> Hello Ethan, Elliott, Wade, Phil and Kerry:
>
> Ethan made a great effort to get most of USBR 11 in Maryland entered into
> OpenStreetMap (OSM) a week ago.  I understand his apparent trepidation at
> entering the remainder of the southerly portion of the route near Weverton
> and Keep Tryst Road:  there is what appears as a dangerous-to-bicyclists
> routing that MDOT has documented in its application.  The application notes
> that "Bicyclists Must Use Shoulder" on Maryland 67 and US 340, and the
> interchange between these and onward to Keep Tryst Road seems OK for USBR
> 11
> southbound cyclists.  However, for USBR 11 northbound cyclists it involves
> some contraflow shoulder riding on US 340 against 55 MPH automobile traffic
> for about a kilometer (the last 500 m on the cloverleaf), and may involve a
> tricky crossing across the southern terminus of Maryland 67 just south of
> the bridge over US 340 so that subsequent riding is with the flow of
> traffic
> on the shoulder of Maryland 67.
>
> I documented these difficulties in "source ways and nodes" of OSM with note
> tags.  However, these do not show up in rendered maps, they are there
> largely to guide OSM editors of how present intentions are tagged and
> intended to be tagged in the future as newer infrastructure is built:
> thankfully, Page 10 of MDOT's USBR 11 application notes that MDOT "will
> pursue grant funding for a new shared-use path to route bicyclists between
> Keep Tryst Road and MD 67 under US 340.  This will eliminate the need for
> bicyclists to ride on US 340 in this location.  Until such time as the
> shared-use path is constructed, bicyclists will use US 340."  My note and
> note_2 tags are intended to convey these intentions.  My bicycle=shoulder
> tag is something I have never used before, but it is intended to convey
> MDOT's intention that "bicyclists must use shoulder" on Maryland 67 and US
> 340.
>
> Somewhat confusingly, I note that Page 9 of the application (PDF), or Page
> 3
> of the turn-by-turn directions, notes specific northbound routing for USBR
> 11 cyclists.  These actually "Begin" at Keep Tryst Road and US 340, "3.7
> miles from West Virginia State Line."  As I understand the application,
> this
> implies that northbound USBR 11 cyclists have no routing from West Virginia
> for these 3.7 miles.  I am further confused by what is an apparent error in
> the application here, instructions to turn RIGHT (eastbound) from the
> T-intersection of Keep Tryst Road onto US 340, while the intended direction
> is clearly westbound:  indeed, the corresponding "General Direction of
> Travel" says "West."  The most recent satellite imagery I s

Re: [Talk-us] Per-State relations for the Appalachian Trail

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I definitely won't be merging any relations
based on some of what you have all stated. What I will do is go through and
look at each relation state by state to ensure there is connectivity and
what not. I'll update anything of interest here.
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 22:35 Kevin Kenny <kken...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> On 05/03/2016 03:09 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
> > In the USA, partly because we are such a geographically large part of
> > the North American continent and partly because each of our fifty
> > states is sovereign, I find that breaking apart very large relations
> > so they are across a single state at a time (then perhaps these are
> > collected into a super-relation) is often (though not always) a
> > sensible approach.  It is part size (large relations with vast numbers
> > of members are unwieldy), it is part “what sort of an entity is this
> > politically?"
> >
> > For example, there is a note in OSM’s Amtrak wiki page on the
> > route=train relation for the California Zephyr:  "The relation is said
> > to be so big it is hard to work with.”  That is something we might
> > take to heart and break apart the relation into statewide components.
> >  I haven’t done that, but somebody might, after considering that it
> > makes editing easier, and that state-at-a-time is a good way to do
> > this.  Even a simple web browser request to display this relation
> > results in "Sorry, the data for the relation with the id 905830, took
> > too long to retrieve." The practicality of potentially better avoiding
> > edit conflicts has been mentioned, and is also true.
> >
> Breaking apart the AT into separate relations - ideally with a
> superrelation joining them - would be sensible, I think, but be careful
> about the assumption about state lines. The AT literally spends a good
> many miles with the hiker having one foot in North Carolina and the
> other in Tennessee - the ridge that it follows is the state line.
>
> We also, I think, need to put some more thought simply into the support
> of large relations. I've recently found that even the New York Long Path
> (only a fifth the length of the AT) crashes JOSM (I haven't yet
> diagnosed the problem) and wound up editing in Meerkartor instead.
> Trails, highways, rivers, railroads, we have a good many places where
> things reasonably and predictably break down into thousands of parts
> over thousands of km, and I don't think we yet have a unified theory of
> how to handle them.
>
> --
> 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests

[Elliott Plack]

 are such
> things as grammatical exceptions.
>
>
>
> I’m doing my very best to listen, and it seems many others are, too.
> Listening is the heart of building consensus.  Let us not also become
> entrenched in minor exceptions or established conventions adding further
> confusion when identifying them as such actually can help us achieve more
> clarity.
>
>
>
> SteveA
>
> California
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Re: [Talk-us] Choptank River

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks for the inspiration Simon. I spent some time today in JOSM improving
the accuracy of the Choptank. Here's the finished relation:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/132#map=11/38.7592/-76.0542

Notes

1. Previous editors had created about 10 relations that were adjacent. I
removed all of the relations but saved the raw lines and added it to this
relation.
2. I removed a lot of lines with jagged boundaries.
3. I used fast-draw at various scales so that the resulting river would
look nice and be a close approximation of the river.
4. I also added the Broad River, Harris Creek, and Tred Avon Rivers using
the same methods. These tidal rivers are near the mouth of the bay.

Next steps (anyone can help)

1. Improve the smaller tributaries.
2. Add the river centerlines for the tributaries if they do not already
exist.
3. Add the wetlands. (as you zoom out with the river selected, the "blue"
zones seem to be much wider than the actual river in places. Those areas
are big swamps.)
4. The rest of the eastern shore :)

Best,

Elliott

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:05 AM Bill Ricker <bill.n1...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> It would strike the locals as very odd if the Jamaica Bay or the Great
> South Bay were labeled as "Atlantic Ocean."
>
>
> ​It's certainly wrong above head-tide where river is fresh-water and
> non-tidal.
> Where navigable brackish and tidal, we'll look at you a little funny for
> not knowing the right name *  but yeah, it's salty.  ​
>
> ​*(as with people whose GPS uses some federal formal name no one uses)​
>
>
> --
> Bill Ricker
> bill.n1...@gmail.com
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Choptank River

[Elliott Plack]

Hi all,

I'm in the area, (Baltimore) and these Eastern Shore rivers have been on my
radar for quite a while. As you've probably observed, the super jagged PGS
coastline [1] Rivers look bad even at relatively small scales.

I've been working on some of the other areas with some other mappers, and
that whole peninsula needs work. Here's one nice looking area, Smith Island
[2] and another near the Blackwater Wildlife Refuge [3] (which has had a
lot of helpful mapping lately by others).

Best thing I've found is to drop some notes where it's appalling and hope
that a good Samaritan comes along and fixes them. Otherwise, it's usually
just me and one or two others using quick draw plugin in JOSM to attempt to
make short work of the tidal rivers.

I've also separated some of the rivers from coastline just to make the
coastline more manageable in this area.

[1] = https://db.tt/UwrMiSTwob
[2] = http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/37.9992/-76.0125
[3] = http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/38.4268/-75.9975

Elliott

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:49 PM Greg Troxel <g...@lexort.com> wrote:

>
> Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> writes:
>
> > Am 16.01.2017 um 15:08 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
> >
> >> On Sunday 15 January 2017, Simon Poole wrote:
> >>> Given that Washington is supposedly the global centre of mapping
> >>> goodness, I hope we might be able to find somebody there that perhaps
> >>> is interested in fixing the, I must say with 120km really far away,
> >>> area a bit.
> >> Note the phenomenon that we have well mapped urban centres immediately
> >> next to extremely poorly mapped areas is something not specific to the
> >> US at all.
> >>
> >> My favorite example for this is usually Singapore where you can find
> >> some extremely badly mapped areas less than 50km to the south:
> > I wasn't aware that there were organisations in Singapore that are are
> > suggesting mapping everywhere except on your own doorstep, but thanks
> > for clarifying that.
>
> I feel like I am missing some humor and don't follow these comments.
> Around me, 120 km really is pretty far away, and the notion that cities
> have a few active mappers and areas with small populations do not is not
> surprising.
>
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[Talk-us] Deleting / Closing / Renaming all places in a chain

[Elliott Plack]

Today, September 6, 2016, all ITT Tech campuses have closed due to a
fallout with the federal government (read more:
https://twitter.com/FOX59/status/773144554438524928 )

On August 19, 2016, Apple Inc. rebranded all of their retail locations (FKA
Apple Store) to simply, "Apple" (read more:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/19/12537840/apple-store-rebranding ).
Further, some locations' storefront has no english text at all, just a
pictogram of an apple (the fruit). On their website, the naming convention
seems to be, "Apple [city name or mall name].

Should we launch an automated edit, or some kind of batch process on OSM to
clear the database `name=ITT Tech` (or similar) worldwide? Other online
maps have begun removing ITT Tech locations from their directories. I do
not know of a widely used method of closing a business on OSM other than
deleting it. Personally, I think that collectively, as a community, we can
turn these kind of news stories as a way to keep OSM fresh.

Similarly, should we launch an automated edit to rename all Apple Stores to
[picture of apple] or "Apple". Perhaps it should be `short_name={picture of
apple}`

What are the best practices for closing businesses, and what do you suggest
we do about ITT Tech and Apple?

Best,

Elliott
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Re: [Talk-us] Deleting / Closing / Renaming all places in a chain

[Elliott Plack]

I ran some queries on Overpass Turbo. There are only 15 POIs that match
some variant of ITT Tech in the USA. Here's the full list:
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9a8770998bacbb7bc7ba81f93eca618d . Here
is the query: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/igB

While it is important to be critical of automated edits, I don't agree that
the community should prefer an outdated map to inspire new mappers.
Following that logic, I should just quit OSM altogether so that the local
map will go stale and others will pick it up, right? No, of course not. We
should be editing what we know or can reasonably assume is there based on
information, and then others can fill in the gaps as they find them.


On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:41 AM Brian Stromberg <brian.stromb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Automated nationwide mapping seems like it would introduce more problems
> than it would solve. If maps are intended to represent the truth on the
> ground, then the only way to create a useful map is by reporting what is
> actually there rather than making assumptions. A map that is inaccurate
> because it is outdated is better than a map that is inaccurate because of a
> flawed process.
>
> Also, first time participating in these conversations, so I am pressing
> "send" with great trepidation...
>
> --
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Greg Morgan <dr.kludge...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 09/06/2016 11:01 PM, Elliott Plack wrote:
>>> > Should we launch an automated edit, or some kind of batch process on
>>> OSM
>>> > to clear the database `name=ITT Tech` (or similar) worldwide?
>>>
>>
>> For one I had to go looking for the story.
>> http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/us-world-news/202562451-story
>> The for-profit college chain ITT Technical Institute is shutting down all
>> 130 of its U.S. campuses, saying Tuesday it can't survive recent sanctions
>> by the U.S. Department of Education...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This is a discussion that has happened in the past when Domino's Pizza
>>> has rebranded, or when the "Schlecker" drug store chain closed in
>>> Germany.
>>>
>>> I think automated edits are not a good solution mainly for two reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. In many cases, the world doesn't change instantly at the behest of
>>> some guy in marketing or legal. Individual locations might retain their
>>> signage for various reasons and we map what's on the ground,
>>>
>>
>> Not around here.  They pop out the plastic and replace it with the new
>> company's name.  If it takes awhile for a new company to replace the old
>> company, then they flip the plastic over to save costs.  This isn't like
>> the days when bespoke signs were created for every business.
>> http://mapillary.com/map/im/LCodN7YJMEPKKlRnf2eLxw
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2. If a chain is renamed or closed country-wide, and this change is not
>>> reflected on OSM in one area, then this can be a valuable sign for lack
>>> of mapper attention. A sign that has the best user interface of all:
>>> Because for any map user, dealing with an outdated map is normal, and
>>> the way you identify just *how* outdated something is is exactly by
>>> looking at such things: "Ah, this map seems to be from a time then
>>> Domino's was still called Domino's Pizza!" - Leaving these valuable
>>> markers of outdated-ness in place tells the map user that this area
>>> hasn't been touched for a while and that the other POIs in the vicinity
>>> are likely also a bit aged. When a local mapper touches up the area they
>>> will likely also update other things than just the closed-down shop, and
>>> then the map will be current again. Automatically editing away something
>>> country-wide hides the fact that the map lacks attention in an area.
>>
>>
>> Frederik you are thinking about this from a dense mapper perspective.
>> Germany has 89 million people in the same are as Montana that only has one
>> million people.  You are talking about one way to map if you have that
>> kind-of population that you can create a large mapper population from.  I
>> already know much of my area needs updating.  The problem is that I cannot
>> get to it and the transient nature of the area doesn't mean that I can go
>> out and build an OSM community here.  Automated edits like this by another
>> mapper would be a great addition to the work I already do in an area.  As
>> ano

Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Elliott Plack]

Markus, take a look at the TIGER Battlegrid! It highlights areas where
there have not been a lot of edits made to the original street data import.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_Battlegrid

Another fun tool for finding things to fix is Improve OSM.

http://improveosm.org/#background=Bing=2.00/0.0/0.0

Both of tools highlight areas of the highest priority, so you're focusing
your energy where it matters most.

Best,

Elliott

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 1:06 AM Mark Wagner <mark+...@carnildo.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:22:06 -0500
> Russ Nelson <nel...@crynwr.com> wrote:
>
> > Markus Fischer writes:
> >  > I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped
> >  > (probably due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to
> >  > start mapping areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking
> >  > at this does not sound like a good approach)?
> >
> > Oh, and you can always do some work in Pennsylvania. Here, let's pick
> > a place at random, Thompson,
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/41.8666/-75.5154
> >
> > Look at Willow Street against Bing aerial imagery. It's badly aligned.
> > Look at Main Street. Also badly aligned.
> > Look at the cemetery west of Main. It's not on the map.
> > Jefferson, East Jackson, Water, all badly aligned.
> > Four bodies of water north of the village, all missing.
> > A little creek coming in from the west and going into a mill pond.
> >
> > There's LOTS to do, and you don't need to have ever gone to the
> > place. You can just see it from the air. You can even see where an
> > intersection has traffic lights -- the aerials are that good.
>
> I wouldn't recommend pure armchair mapping as a starting point for
> someone just getting in to OSM.  There are too many "gotchas": to take
> your traffic light example, there are patterns of street lights that
> look similar to traffic lights if you're just judging from the shadows
> they cast.  Or looking at Thompson, you missed the fact that Starrucca
> Creek proceeds to exit the millpond, flow west through Thompson, and
> loop around to the north and east, to join with the Susquehanna River
> about ten miles away.  Or to take an example in my area, most of the
> small bodies of water are seasonal and turn into patches of
> dried mud in the late summer, something you'd never figure out from
> looking at Bing.
>
> I'd recommend starting by simply verifying things in your immediate
> area.  It will give you a feel for how things on the ground match up to
> what you see from the air, and you'll probably find some businesses or
> roads that need updating.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] HOV lane tagging

[Elliott Plack]

Jack,

Good question. I am curious about the answer as well, specifically
regarding bicycle lanes, which can be added using this method.

Setting a right side bike lane to ...yes|designated doesn't preclude other
vehicles from accessing the right lane, as you said.

I thought about adding |no for regular access, but wouldn't that general
access contradict the other tags?

The Mapbox data team has been doing lots of turn lane tagging around the US
[1], so perhaps a member of the team there can provide insight on this.

Elliott

[1] = https://www.mapbox.com/blog/la-turn-lanes-map/

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 6:01 PM Jack Burke <burke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Something about some HOV access tags I've seen have been bothering me.
>
> Some of the interstates through Atlanta have designated HOV-only lanes.
> In looking at the attributes on them, someone has added
> hov:lanes=designated|yes|yes|yes|yes {etc.} to them.
>
> However, after reviewing the wiki for the "designated" tag, it doesn't
> appear to _exclude_ other modes of transport--just using the
> hov:lanes=designated tag on the leftmost lane still implies that non-HOV
> transportation is allowed.  For example, motorcycles are allowed, but
> single-passenger cars are not, but the current tagging doesn't appear to
> prohibit single-passenger cars, if I'm reading the wiki right.
>
> Reading up on the access tag leads me to think that it would be better to
> include access:lanes=no|yes|yes|yes|yes {etc.} to preclude non-HOV traffic,
> as well as add motorcycle:lanes=yes|yes|yes|yes|yes {etc.}
>
>
> For example, the section of northbound I-75/I-85 under this marker
>
> http://osm.org/go/ZQqq80Lkl-?layers=N=
>
>
> currently has the tag
>
> hov:lanes=designated|yes|yes|yes|yes|yes|yes
>
> Am I correct in thinking that it would be right to add these tags, too:
>
> access:lanes=no|yes|yes|yes|yes|yes|yes
> motorcycle:lanes=yes|yes|yes|yes|yes|yes|yes
>
> Thanks for any feedback!
>
> --jack
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest (landuse=forest and US National forests again)

[Elliott Plack]

My take:

landuse = forest ---> human managed
natural = wood ---> natural

I don't agree with designating USFS land as landuse=forest, unless we can
agree to abort the use of landuse=forest for tagging clumps of trees. We
need a best common practice here.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 4:09 PM Paul Norman <penor...@mac.com> wrote:

On 11/29/2016 7:14 AM, Andy Townsend wrote:
> All I know of the area is"lots of parts of it do have lots of trees",
> but does the landuse=forest assignment make sense on the National
> Forest boundary, or should it be on the forested areas within?  I
> mention this here rather because I'm sure there are people here
> familiar with the area, which I'm not.

The forested areas within. Or natural=wood, both get used in practice,
but that's an entire different mess.

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Re: [Talk-us] An actual mini roundabout!

[Elliott Plack]

Awesome! I didn't know about that one. I'm glad that I asked.

I always found it a bit cumbersome to trace all those little loops and if
used for navigation, the GPS doesn't always work on the Loop.
On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 19:52 David Kewley <david.t.kew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> For Elliott's example, I would use
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dturning_loop.
>
> David
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Rihards <ric...@nakts.net> wrote:
>
> On 2016.12.09. 00:44, Elliott Plack wrote:
> > You mean these things aren't?pasted1
>
> no. here the road is physically making a circle, and you cannot cross
> the middle section - it should be mapped as a separate way, not a single
> node.
>
> Paul, i believe there are a few more, but i can't remember where exactly ;)
>
> > On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:44 PM Paul Johnson <ba...@ursamundi.org
> > <mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Palm hit the touchpad...
> >  http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/42.64745/-84.64277
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Paul Johnson <ba...@ursamundi.org
> > <mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>> wrote:
> >
> > As far as I can tell from FHWA documents, I finally stumbled on
> > the one intersection in the US that actually qualifies as a
> > mini_roundabout.
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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Re: [Talk-us] Center Turn Lanes/Auxiliary Lanes

[Elliott Plack]

There is a proposed tag for lanes:both_ways=*
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Suffix_both_ways>
that I use for those. The handy JOSM Turn Lanes plugin supports this, which you
can see in the second screencap on their repo
<https://github.com/JOSM/turnlanes-tagging>. Mapbox has done a lot of turn
lane mapping around the US and offer some helpful tips here
<https://www.mapbox.com/blog/turn-lanes-mapping/>
and here <https://www.mapbox.com/blog/la-turn-lanes-map/>.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:05 PM Spencer Gardner <spencergard...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I've been researching the way auxiliary lanes (right/left turn, etc.) are
> tagged in OSM but I can't tell if there's an accepted standard for handling
> these. There are a number of competing proposals for different scenarios
> and nothing seems to cover all cases.
>
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn>
> Key:turn <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn> appears to be
> pretty widely used but I don't see anything in there about the commonly
> used center turn lane
> <http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/fig3b_07_longdesc.htm> here in
> the US.
>
> So I guess I have two questions:
>
>1. Is there an accepted standard for handling auxiliary lanes?
>2. Is there a common way for US mappers to tag the center turn lane?
>
> Thanks,
> Spencer
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Re: [Talk-us] Unreviewed rural roads vs Strava heatmap

[Elliott Plack]

Excellent QA QC tool! Thanks for making it.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 11:23 AM Mike N <nice...@att.net> wrote:

> On 12/28/2016 8:40 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> >
> > The result is a map of rural roads where people cycle but which are
> > still tagged as highway=residential, tiger:reviewed=no. I built this for
> > my own fixup work but I figured others might find it useful.
>
> Very nice tool!
>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Elliott Plack]

Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM as
an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation

Kudos on getting this together!
On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>>
>>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
>>> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>>
>>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>>
>>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
>>> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
>>> what you're thinking.
>>>
>>>
>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>
>
>
> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal can
> use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
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Re: [Talk-us] buggy buildings in Maryland

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks for bringing this up, Frederik. I reached out to the user in a
changeset and a mail thread (links below) and was under the impression that
they would fix the problem. Was that really two years ago?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41375854 - changeset
https://gist.github.com/talllguy/7d813ece238f359317786a18f7b7bbcb - message
thread copy

I'd say go ahead and remove the extraneous nodes and also any buildings
that are either version 0 or do not have any new tags (like names or
addresses). The Microsoft buildings could replace any buildings that are
only footprints. If you can cull this down to those with some information
besides the geometry alone, the community can fill in the blanks.


On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 8:10 AM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> over the last 2 years, DWG has had a three different complaints about a
> buggy building import that has been run on and off by the user
> "annapolissailor".
>
> The import was problematic in many ways, most obviously because huge
> batches of un-used nodes were uploaded and later it was attempted to
> connect them, which sometimes failed, leaving lots of un-used nodes in
> the database; also, almost all buildings are over-noded, taking 10 or
> more nodes for a simple rectangular building (eg
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/435663194). Buildings that were in the
> area before have been deleted outright, and the data source and legal
> situation is unclear (many buildings are much too precise to have come
> from aerial imagery).
>
> (Needless to say, had the import been discussed up front as is
> customary, all these issues could have been avoided.)
>
> I have tried to work with the importer but they seem to be ultimately
> unable or unwilling to fix the problems even though they did seem to
> understand the issue at some point
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1587). They asked me a couple
> of times to "hold off reverting data until next steps are discussed on
> the imports list" but never followed up on the promise. They claimed to
> have spent hundreds of hours on the JOSM validator improving problems
> they had introduced.
>
> I am at the moment deleting about 70,000 untagged and un-used nodes that
> have been left over from this import, which is the uncontroversial part.
>
> The total amount of buildings created and still visible is 177,151, with
> a total of 1,980,336 nodes, in the general area "East of Washington DC,
> South of Baltimore, North of Chesapeake Beach".
>
> I think these buildings need to be deleted too, given their technical
> (over-noding) and legal (we don't know where the data came from and what
> license it is under) issues.
>
> However, given how much work the mapper claims to have invested in this,
> I wonder if there's maybe a way to salvage the data. That would first
> require us to clear up the legal situation, and if it turns out the
> source is legal, then we'd have to go about killing the extra nodes in
> buildings.
>
> I'm basically looking for volunteers here. Other mappers have tried to
> discuss the issue with the mapper himself and never got far either, but
> of course if someone wanted to try and enlist annapolissailor's support,
> fair enough (perhaps agree here on the list who's doing it though, so
> that we don't have 10 people spamming him...)
>
> I have prepared a file that contains all the buildings in question:
>
> http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/annapolis.osm.gz
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [Talk-us] buggy buildings in Maryland

[Elliott Plack]

Here's a potential fix: use the SimplifyArea JOSM Plugin.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/SimplifyArea

The plugin is built for fixing over-noded and buggy imports.

As a test, I downloaded the plugin and then downloaded some of
Annapolis sailor's buildings.

This building should only contain four nodes:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/525751797

This building should only contain eight nodes:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/526209538

The plugin successfully reduced the nodes for both buildings without
affecting the shape, unlike the simplify way tool.

I tested it on a larger swath of 500 buildings and it took less than a
second to run.

I haven't uploaded any of the changes yet, but I think this would be a good
path forward.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 8:02 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 08/16/2018 08:08 PM, Elliott Plack wrote:
> > I'd say go ahead and remove the extraneous nodes
>
> This has now been done.
>
> > and also any buildings
> > that are either version 0 or do not have any new tags (like names or
> > addresses)
>
> It appears that of the 177,151 buildings still there, only 29,513 have
> tags other than building=*. In most cases, these other tags are
> addr:street and addr:housenumber.
>
> I'll let this rest for a bit to give others a chance to chime in.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2018-07-03

[Elliott Plack]

Question about these extracts: I’ve tried loading some on these on my Edge
820 but the maps are too detailed to render. This is most often a problem
in city areas where mapping detail is dense. I usually run off the edge of
the rendered map before it has a chance to reload. The Garmin default map
is also OSM-based, so is there any advantage to using these extracts.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 07:37 Dave Hansen  wrote:

> These are based off of Lambertus's work here:
>
> http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl
>
> If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
> free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
> odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
> asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.
>
> Downloads:
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03
>
> Map to visualize what each file contains:
>
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03/kml/kml.html
> 
>
> FAQ
>
> 
>
> Why did you do this?
>
> I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
> of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
> cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
> on removable media.
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03
>
> Can or should I seed the torrents?
>
> Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
> server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
> side of the Atlantic.
>
> Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?
>
> There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
> red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
> want to update if you had issues with the last set.
>
> Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?
>
> If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
> the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
> file.
>
> Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?
>
> Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
> in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
> to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
> This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
> non-US area to get included, let me know.
>
> -- Dave
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2018-07-03

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks for sending the alternatives and blog! The Edge is a small-ish
screen bike computer. the 820 was until a few days ago in the newest
generation so I was surprised at how sluggish it was with the OSM maps.

Here's a link to the default cycle routing map it uses, clearly OSM Based.
They don't update as frequently but must do some QA/QC on the data.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/169655#overview

There is a setting for map detail, but it didn't seem to hide much of what
was bogging down the rendering, e.g. buildings, addresses, etc.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 1:31 PM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> There is a lightweight alternative at
> http://www.gmaptool.eu/en/content/maps-garmin-fenix but that is really
> more geared towards Fenix watches.. Still may be usable / nice for other
> low-memory / small screen contexts. Actually I just blogged about putting
> OSM maps on my 10 year old etrex..It can still be done :) -->
> https://ma.rtijn.org/2018/07/02/right-to-upload-maps.html
>
> Interesting, I didn't know that the default Garmin map is now OSM based.
> Is that also true for the car products? Edge is a bicycle device, right?
> --
>   Martijn van Exel
>   m...@rtijn.org
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 11:19, Elliott Plack wrote:
>
> Question about these extracts: I’ve tried loading some on these on my Edge
> 820 but the maps are too detailed to render. This is most often a problem
> in city areas where mapping detail is dense. I usually run off the edge of
> the rendered map before it has a chance to reload. The Garmin default map
> is also OSM-based, so is there any advantage to using these extracts.
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 07:37 Dave Hansen  wrote:
>
> These are based off of Lambertus's work here:
>
> http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl
>
> If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
> free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
> odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
> asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.
>
> Downloads:
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03
>
> Map to visualize what each file contains:
>
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03/kml/kml.html
> 
>
> FAQ
>
> 
>
> Why did you do this?
>
> I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
> of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
> cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
> on removable media.
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03
>
> Can or should I seed the torrents?
>
> Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
> server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
> side of the Atlantic.
>
> Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?
>
> There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
> red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
> want to update if you had issues with the last set.
>
> Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?
>
> If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
> the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
> file.
>
> Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?
>
> Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
> in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
> to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
> This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
> non-US area to get included, let me know.
>
> -- Dave
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
> --
> Sent from iPhone; kindly excuse tyops.
> *_______*
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2018-07-03

[Elliott Plack]

I stumbled on another data extract tool that allows extract to many other
formats and handles custom areas. Very cool: https://extract.bbbike.org/

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 1:45 PM Elliott Plack 
wrote:

> Thanks for sending the alternatives and blog! The Edge is a small-ish
> screen bike computer. the 820 was until a few days ago in the newest
> generation so I was surprised at how sluggish it was with the OSM maps.
>
> Here's a link to the default cycle routing map it uses, clearly OSM Based.
> They don't update as frequently but must do some QA/QC on the data.
> https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/169655#overview
>
> There is a setting for map detail, but it didn't seem to hide much of what
> was bogging down the rendering, e.g. buildings, addresses, etc.
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 1:31 PM Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> There is a lightweight alternative at
>> http://www.gmaptool.eu/en/content/maps-garmin-fenix but that is really
>> more geared towards Fenix watches.. Still may be usable / nice for other
>> low-memory / small screen contexts. Actually I just blogged about putting
>> OSM maps on my 10 year old etrex..It can still be done :) -->
>> https://ma.rtijn.org/2018/07/02/right-to-upload-maps.html
>>
>> Interesting, I didn't know that the default Garmin map is now OSM based.
>> Is that also true for the car products? Edge is a bicycle device, right?
>> --
>>   Martijn van Exel
>>   m...@rtijn.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 11:19, Elliott Plack wrote:
>>
>> Question about these extracts: I’ve tried loading some on these on my
>> Edge 820 but the maps are too detailed to render. This is most often a
>> problem in city areas where mapping detail is dense. I usually run off the
>> edge of the rendered map before it has a chance to reload. The Garmin
>> default map is also OSM-based, so is there any advantage to using these
>> extracts.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 07:37 Dave Hansen  wrote:
>>
>> These are based off of Lambertus's work here:
>>
>> http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl
>>
>> If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
>> free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
>> odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
>> asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.
>>
>> Downloads:
>>
>> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03
>>
>> Map to visualize what each file contains:
>>
>>
>> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03/kml/kml.html
>> 
>>
>> FAQ
>>
>> 
>>
>> Why did you do this?
>>
>> I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
>> of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
>> cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
>> on removable media.
>>
>> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-07-03
>>
>> Can or should I seed the torrents?
>>
>> Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
>> server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
>> side of the Atlantic.
>>
>> Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?
>>
>> There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
>> red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
>> want to update if you had issues with the last set.
>>
>> Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?
>>
>> If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
>> the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
>> file.
>>
>> Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?
>>
>> Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
>> in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
>> to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
>> This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
>> non-US area to get included, let me know.
>>
>> -- Dave
>>
>>
>> _______
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>> --
>> Sent from iPhone; kindly excuse tyops.
>> *___*
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
> --
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> http://elliottplack.me
>
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Re: [Talk-us] admin_level=8 boundaries in Parker County, TX

[Elliott Plack]

Yikes! In that case, I typically open the relation for the boundary, delete
the old geometry from the relation, save, check if I can remove any
unneeded ways, add the new data as tag-less ways, and then reconfigure the
inner/outer roles. This has the benefit of preserving the boundary relation
while removing the bad tiger data and it makes sure nothing is snapped to
the boundary.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 2:36 PM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Frederik,
>
> These boundaries are often very outdated. I don't know which TIGER vintage
> they were imported from. I have been replacing them piecemeal from current
> TIGER as I work, but we should probably replace them altogether and have a
> plan to keep them updated. I don't think they interfere with other features
> much, but obviously that should be researched.
>
> As for this specific case, current boundary from TIGER 2017 in brown, OSM
> in green: https://cloud.rtijn.org/s/bpxPffp6ycm8rF7
>
> --
>   Martijn van Exel
>   m...@rtijn.org
>
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018, at 05:10, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've recently traced a little bit of stuff in Annetta, TX. The area I
> > looked at had a lot of potential for someone interested in mapping from
> > aerial imagery (houses, tracks, driveways, parking missing; some
> > driveways tagged as highway=residential etc.) and I did what I could in
> > the small area I worked on, but there was one thing I didn't dare touch
> > and that's admin boundaries. The ones I encountered often cut straight
> > through residential buildings and I thought that can't be right, but I
> > know too little about boundaries in the US to fix any of it. I am
> > specifically talking of
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/114418
> >
> > and
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/33245202
> >
> > - maybe someone local wants to give them a closer look. Maybe it's ok
> > the way it is. The Annetta North boundary is relatively straight but has
> > one wobbly bit, is there maybe a waterway missing in OSM?
> >
> > Bye
> > Frederik
> >
> > --
> > Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> >
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