texascavers Digest 5 Jul 2014 22:48:06 -0000 Issue 2003

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 5 Jul 2014 22:48:06 - Issue 2003

Topics (messages 24004 through 24013):

Re: a new tent
24004 by: Logan McNatt
24005 by: bpaintx
24006 by: Jim Kennedy
24007 by: Logan McNatt
24008 by: Stefan Creaser
24009 by: Gill Edigar
24010 by: dlocklea...@gmail.com
24011 by: gregg.wllms

China Caves
24012 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

climbing karst of China
24013 by: Mixon Bill

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--
---BeginMessage---

It's 549 Euros, which equals 435.71 pounds.  Quite heavy for a tent.


On 7/3/2014 12:16 PM, David wrote:

If you are planning to buy a new tent, you might as well buy one called,

THE CAVE.

http://www.heimplanet.com/en/tents/

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---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
It actually weighs 5.9 kilos or 11.2 pounds.  The cost is 549 euros or $764 US 
dollars.

div Original message /divdivFrom: Logan McNatt 
lmcn...@austin.rr.com /divdivDate:07/03/2014  12:41 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
/divdivTo: David dlocklea...@gmail.com, CaveTex 
texascavers@texascavers.com /divdivSubject: Re: [Texascavers] a new tent 
/divdiv
/divIt's 549 Euros, which equals 435.71 pounds.  Quite heavy for a tent.


On 7/3/2014 12:16 PM, David wrote:
 If you are planning to buy a new tent, you might as well buy one called,

 THE CAVE.

 http://www.heimplanet.com/en/tents/

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---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Low-gun was making a joke.

 

From: bpaintx [mailto:bpai...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 1:42 PM
To: Logan McNatt; David; CaveTex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a new tent

 

It actually weighs 5.9 kilos or 11.2 pounds.  The cost is 549 euros or $764 US 
dollars. 

 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

I was?  Oh  yeah, I guess so.  Forgot they're in a different time zone over 
there in Europe.
LowGun (or however you spell it)


On 7/3/2014 1:47 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:


Low-gun was making a joke.

*From:*bpaintx [mailto:bpai...@yahoo.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, July 03, 2014 1:42 PM
*To:* Logan McNatt; David; CaveTex
*Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] a new tent

It actually weighs 5.9 kilos or 11.2 pounds.  The cost is 549 euros or $764 US 
dollars.



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Is that English or American pounds thou?

From: Jim Kennedy [mailto:cavercr...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 1:48 PM
To: 'bpaintx'; 'Logan McNatt'; 'David'; 'CaveTex'
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: a new tent

Low-gun was making a joke.

From: bpaintx [mailto:bpai...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 1:42 PM
To: Logan McNatt; David; CaveTex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a new tent

It actually weighs 5.9 kilos or 11.2 pounds.  The cost is 549 euros or $764 US 
dollars.


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium. Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered 
in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
That's $68 per pound. Or is it #.


On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com wrote:

  I was?  Oh  yeah, I guess so.  Forgot they're in a different time zone
 over there in Europe.
 LowGun (or however you spell it)



 On 7/3/2014 1:47 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:

  Low-gun was making a joke.



 *From:* bpaintx [mailto:bpai...@yahoo.com bpai...@yahoo.com]
 *Sent:* Thursday, July 03, 2014 1:42 PM
 *To:* Logan McNatt; David; CaveTex
 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] a new tent



 It actually weighs 5.9 kilos or 11.2 pounds.  The cost is 549 euros or
 $764 US dollars.





---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

texascavers Digest 3 Jul 2014 17:17:26 -0000 Issue 2002

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 3 Jul 2014 17:17:26 - Issue 2002

Topics (messages 23997 through 24003):

Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
23997 by: Fritz Holt

another LED headlamp review
23998 by: David

UT and USS Grotto meeting 7/2
23999 by: Andrea Croskrey

paging michael chicherski
24000 by: Jill Orr

AMCS books at UT Grotto meeting
24001 by: Mixon Bill

NSS convention registration
24002 by: Mixon Bill

a new tent
24003 by: David

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--
---BeginMessage---


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem mailer-dae...@googlemail.com
 Date: June 30, 2014 at 2:06:51 AM CDT
 To: fritz...@gmail.com
 Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
 
 Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
 
 texasca...@texascaver.com
 
 Technical details of permanent failure: 
 DNS Error: DNS server returned general failure
 
 - Original message -
 
 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject
 :message-id:date:references:to;
bh=0DI6oBuZK7tb5e/dzlUYxNMald4jDpvVpHAq4EdUPIM=;
b=BhXMXm9ZE09YKwSayfCOSS0AxYn/MabGM/UJ4GIrYsRm0M/u+c1CG+Vp+sI+Puizuy
 R10WbEicgnkiZwVob4i6us/MkbQOk5Nl+5jmQvEpUsZnw5zBdSd9B8GZeX0lu3GSSLR6
 gaMdJ4RSQYObSFXOuGMfjWQ5AqAwWDxN3yxQOD2AIJEYYpO6e6hLPMSoXcvfrxndD73Q
 bEnQNfsHiGDAQLxIObpaSnms8Ysgo85vzaTp0p6X9i/RoPyt8z83T9n9nz8RcUBJZOeg
 bV6epOSiqpcp16Y08XqOH/7ZZG/AK/JRlb+xdXanZZISddJ6R4XIz66m7RF0JcBwJmAZ
 Ej2A==
 X-Received: by 10.182.214.98 with SMTP id nz2mr20591004obc.62.1403843482957;
Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
 Return-Path: fritz...@gmail.com
 Received: from [10.180.34.115] ([107.107.186.77])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x5sm32143679oei.16.2014.06.26.21.31.20
for multiple recipients
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Thu, 26 Jun 2014 21:31:21 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com
 Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=Apple-Mail-56815C69-06B4-454E-AC9C-5C80D0E8DC5D
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
 Subject: Fwd: Check out 36 Nature Photos That Prove Texas Is Not Just 
 Tumbleweeds
 Message-Id: b8f70754-e5c2-4775-bc01-0bd803f01...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 23:31:20 -0500
 References: 222d6.70bb5302.40dad...@aol.com
 To: Mandy Holt geekazoidman...@hotmail.com,
 Jenny Holt jhol...@gmail.com, texasca...@texascaver.com
 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D167)
 
 I'm proud to be a native Texan and love all of it. Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 From: kittymr...@aol.com
 Date: June 24, 2014 at 8:20:57 AM CDT
 To: sfbru...@att.net, gracieterr...@sbcglobal.net, fritz...@gmail.com, 
 sophia.la...@gmail.com, kol...@industryinet.com
 Subject: Check out 36 Nature Photos That Prove Texas Is Not Just Tumbleweeds
 
 Click here: 36 Nature Photos That Prove Texas Is Not Just Tumbleweeds
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I received 2 new LED headlamps for my birthday this past weekend.

1 )

http://www.coastportland.com/hl44-led-headlamp.htm

Purchased at a Walmart that caters to the wealthy folks.. I haven't seen it
at any other store.   The good is, the light pattern and settings
are perfect
for Texas caving, and the best I have ever seen in a lamp this inexpensive.
The bad is, the build quality is cheezy, and it would not make
a good caving lamp, for Texas caves.However, it would make an
excellent backpacking headlamp.
So it is suitable for a dry walking cave, where the lamp will not get
muddy or wet, or
banged up.Like Cueva del Abra, or Cueva La Boca, or Precipicio, Bustamante,
Illusive Pit, etc.


2 )

I can't find a link anywhere on the web for the next one, but it is a new one
at Home Depot under the brand Defiant. It is in the same category
as the light
in the link below:

http://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/witmerpublicsafety/61400_alt1?$Product%20Page$

It should survive 1 trip through Whirlpool.The light pattern and
settings are
terrible.It does seem to be water-resistant enough for caving, and
maybe useful
as maybe a back-up headlamp to throw in the pack.If I keep it, it
will be my glove-box headlamp for
changing flat-tires.

However, of all the cheezy inexpensive lamps out there now, I would
recommend this
one to a newbie going on their first and only caving trip.


Any cheap LED headlamp should be tried for several hours above ground,
before using it
on a real caving trip, to make sure it handle continuance 

texascavers Digest 30 Jun 2014 19:08:39 -0000 Issue 2001

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 30 Jun 2014 19:08:39 - Issue 2001

Topics (messages 23992 through 23996):

Re: Positive Cave Story on the News
23992 by: Jacqueline Thomas
23993 by: David

The Son Doong Cave in Vietnam is open for business
23994 by: Lee H. Skinner

Macro wildflower photos from Lost Oasis Cave Preserve
23995 by: Chris Vreeland
23996 by: Julie Jenkins

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--
---BeginMessage---
Very well done news segment. Will you let us know what is decided about the 
development? Jacqui

On Jun 25, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Justin Leigh Shaw wrote:

 Watch the Video, the text is truncated.
 The first 8 seconds might well be the most positive cave spiel I've ever 
 heard a TV news reporter give.
 
 Battle to protect cave heads to City Council
 http://wp.me/p4ySvf-9AG
 
 I think KXAN deserves some props for this piece. 
 
 
 -- 
 
 
 
 
 Justin Leigh Shaw
 
 jus...@oztotl.net
 
 512-797-4734
 
 Box 40056
 Austin, TX
 78704
 
 
 we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
 coherent manor 
   - John Trudell

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Do caves really cover 20 % of Texas ?Or did I misunderstand that
statistic ?

Had any Austin cavers explored this cave prior to the homeowner
finding it ?Is it listed in the Caves of Travis
County ? Has anybody been pack to push it, or do a dye-trace ?

I can see the developer rolling their eyes, and saying to themselves,
I can get a cement truck out here in an
hour to fill that.


On a personal note ( hit delete button now ),

I worked for David Weekley homes for one year in their drafting
department.It was one of the
worst jobs I ever had, partly because my supervisor was the biggest
pr**k, I have every worked under.   However, DW did throw a nice
Christmas party.  He invited us once out to his mediocre lake house
to spend the night and go swimming on Lake Conroe. [ but this required
being forced to participate in his Japanese work-psychology activity
games designed to weed out people like me ].   That was 1990 ( I think
).   He allegedly lived down the street, from Farrah Fawcett.They
were building crappy homes then, and I mentioned that to my boss's
boss in an email that I broadcasted to the entire company ( then about
40 people ).   I do not know why, but they did not appreciate my
constructive criticism and rudely showed me to the front door, just
one day, before my 401k was vested.   They were not impressed at all
at my very clever way to broadcast the email, using AutoCAD at the
messenger, as the company had no such email system at the time.
Eventually, they took all of my advice.  I occasionally go in their
new model homes, and say to myself, it is about frickin time, you
added that feature. I am strongly opposed to the common use of
oriented strand board, and believe all that glue is about the same
as living in a mobile home.  I think every builder, uses it now, but
at least it is recyclable, and is made from wood chips that otherwise,
might just end up in the landfill.If I were rich, I would never
live in a home were the walls were constructed entirely of OSB.   I
feel, being exposed to those very tiny minute particles in the air day
after day for 60 years, might have some negative health effect that is
avoidable.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Today's cave news from the media:

News story with great photos: http://tinyurl.com/kar5qwq

Son Doong Cave's website: http://tinyurl.com/9mdrl67

Lee Skinner

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Marginally cave-related:

On 1 May 2014 I met a school group at the preserve for an educational tour of 
Lost Oasis Cave, and there was a profusion of blooming things all over the 
property, so I went back 2 days later with my tripod  macro lens  got some 
better shots. It's part of my Ongoing Incomplete, Unscientific Autodidactical 
Survey Of The Various Botanical Things That Grow At Lost Oasis Research 
Program, or OIUASOTVBTTGALORP for short, of course.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cvreeland/sets/72157645019867769/

Chris---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Nice photos, Chris. In all my years of managing LO, I have seem so many 
beautiful blooming and prickly things. Thanks for the wonderful snippet of 
Springtime Austin.

 On Jun 29, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 
 Marginally cave-related:
 
 On 1 May 2014 I met a school group at the preserve for an educational tour of 
 Lost Oasis Cave, and there was a profusion of blooming things all over the 
 property, so I went back 2 days later with my tripod  macro lens  got some 
 better shots. It's part of my Ongoing 

texascavers Digest 26 Jun 2014 00:17:56 -0000 Issue 1999

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 26 Jun 2014 00:17:56 - Issue 1999

Topics (messages 23978 through 23982):

Caver's worst nightmare
23978 by: Frank Binney
23979 by: Kurt L. Menking
23980 by: Fofo

looking for Andy Grubbs
23981 by: Sam Young

Positive Cave Story on the News
23982 by: Justin Leigh Shaw

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--
---BeginMessage---
Just learned of another ³cave² rescue in Germany: a US student who became
stuck in a stone vagina and had to be extracted by 22 firefighters.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1410029/us-student-gets-stuck-in-vagina-sculpture-
rescued-by-22-firefighters/



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Looks to me like the Aggies need to make a new redesigned squeeze box.

Kurt

From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 12:55 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Caver's worst nightmare

Just learned of another cave rescue in Germany: a US student who became stuck 
in a stone vagina and had to be extracted by 22 firefighters.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1410029/us-student-gets-stuck-in-vagina-sculpture-rescued-by-22-firefighters/

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

The Mayor's quote is great:

Tubingen�s mayor told a local newspaper that he struggled to imagine 
how the accident could have happened, �even when considering the most 
extreme adolescent fantasies. To reward such a masterly achievement with 
the use of 22 firefighters almost pains my soul.�



- Fofo



On 23/06/14 10:58, Kurt L. Menking wrote:

Looks to me like the Aggies need to make a new redesigned squeeze box.

Kurt

*From:*Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com]
*Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2014 12:55 PM
*To:* Texas Cavers
*Subject:* [Texascavers] Caver's worst nightmare

Just learned of another �cave� rescue in Germany: a US student who
became stuck in a stone vagina and had to be extracted by 22 firefighters.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1410029/us-student-gets-stuck-in-vagina-sculpture-rescued-by-22-firefighters/

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Andy, please get in touch with me.   Sam Young---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Watch the Video, the text is truncated.
The first 8 seconds might well be the most positive cave spiel I've ever
heard a TV news reporter give.

Battle to protect cave heads to City Council
http://wp.me/p4ySvf-9AG

I think KXAN deserves some props for this piece.


-- 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-797-4734

Box 40056
Austin, TX
78704


we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manor
  - John Trudell
---End Message---

texascavers Digest 23 Jun 2014 16:08:35 -0000 Issue 1998

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Jun 2014 16:08:35 - Issue 1998

Topics (messages 23970 through 23977):

Re: Kevlar related
23970 by: Kevin McGowan
23974 by: Don Cooper
23976 by: Mark Minton
23977 by: Espeleo Coahuila

Re: Question..
23971 by: Bill Bentley
23972 by: Geary Schindel

Internet related
23973 by: David

Amazing 3-D Tour of a Chinese Supercave
23975 by: Lee H. Skinner

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--
---BeginMessage---
I use Kevlar for the foot loop on my frog system for years.  I worked great. 

KM 

Sent from mobile device
Kevin McGowan Photography
5250 Gulfton, Suite 2F
Houston TX 77081
Studio: (713) 665-3818
Cell: (281) 433-2474


 On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:42 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 In the news today, it was announced that the chemist credited with the
 discovery of Kevlar,
 has passed away.  Stephanie Kwolek was her name.
 
 Sometime around 1986 or 87, I was taking a materials science course at
 AM and had access to a tensile-test machine.I asked the professor
 if I could test a piece of 5mm Kevlar cord.
 
 I put a figure 8 knot in each end. and tied each end to the steel bar
 connectors.   I think I had about 15 inches between the knots.
 
 It broke in the middle of the upper knot at around 10,000 pounds.
 The professor was
 quite surprised.
 
 I used the cord in my Mitchell System, from my foot to an upper Jumar,
 several times over a 2 year period, on some pits that were under 200
 feet. At the foot attachment, I tied the Kevlar cord into a
 chicken-loop rig, described by James Jasek ( I think ) in a Texas
 Caver in the late 70's or early 80's.   So that the Kevlar cord was
 the only thing holding my foot to the Jumar.   I did not tie the cord
 to the Jumar eye-hole, but wrapped it around the handle and tied it
 off.
 
 While I would not recommend doing that now, I would say the cord is
 light enough to throw in the cave-pack for an emergency or as a
 back-up.
 
 David Locklear
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
When commercially available kevlar first appeared on the scene, small
kevlar cords were put into use on sport parachutes.  Before even 100 uses,
some jumpers experienced line-breaks.  It was a surprise, as the very thin
kevlar lines were supposed to be over twice the strength of the polyester
lines they replaced.
In the end, I believe the failure was attributed to dirt getting into the
uncoated kevlar cord and setting up deterioration due to abrasion process
at a scale too small to visually observe.



On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Kevin McGowan ke...@kevinmcgowan.com
wrote:

 I use Kevlar for the foot loop on my frog system for years.  I worked
 great.

 KM

 Sent from mobile device
 Kevin McGowan Photography
 5250 Gulfton, Suite 2F
 Houston TX 77081
 Studio: (713) 665-3818
 Cell: (281) 433-2474


  On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:42 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  In the news today, it was announced that the chemist credited with the
  discovery of Kevlar,
  has passed away.  Stephanie Kwolek was her name.
 
  Sometime around 1986 or 87, I was taking a materials science course at
  AM and had access to a tensile-test machine.I asked the professor
  if I could test a piece of 5mm Kevlar cord.
 
  I put a figure 8 knot in each end. and tied each end to the steel bar
  connectors.   I think I had about 15 inches between the knots.
 
  It broke in the middle of the upper knot at around 10,000 pounds.
  The professor was
  quite surprised.
 
  I used the cord in my Mitchell System, from my foot to an upper Jumar,
  several times over a 2 year period, on some pits that were under 200
  feet. At the foot attachment, I tied the Kevlar cord into a
  chicken-loop rig, described by James Jasek ( I think ) in a Texas
  Caver in the late 70's or early 80's.   So that the Kevlar cord was
  the only thing holding my foot to the Jumar.   I did not tie the cord
  to the Jumar eye-hole, but wrapped it around the handle and tied it
  off.
 
  While I would not recommend doing that now, I would say the cord is
  light enough to throw in the cave-pack for an emergency or as a
  back-up.
 
  David Locklear
 
  -
  Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: 

texascavers Digest 11 Jun 2014 22:26:52 -0000 Issue 1993

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 11 Jun 2014 22:26:52 - Issue 1993

Topics (messages 23926 through 23933):

Congress in Tamaulipas Researching
23926 by: Espeleo Coahuila

future speleo-vehicle ??
23927 by: David

Cave Rescue going on in Germany's deepest cave
23928 by: Lee H. Skinner

Comcast has bounced me off
23929 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Using ultraviolet light to diagnose WNS
23930 by: Lee H. Skinner

Cluster or Clutter of Spiders' Specifically Harvestmen Daddy Longlegs
23931 by: Robert B
23932 by: Louise Power
23933 by: Robert B

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--
---BeginMessage---
Hi Friends

The Secretary of Tourism in Tamaulipas, want's to know if you have interest
to visit Gomez Farías  in December 2014 or January 2015 to explore caves.
They ask me if I will create a Congress like EspeleoCoahuila but in
Tamaulipas...  EspeleoTamaulipas , they said can give you a security all
the way to have a great time in caves.

I have to make a researching with you, if you could be come. Please let me
know, if you think, could you can come to Gomez Farias, Tamaulipas in
January ?

Monica Ponce
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=ischsa=1q=eduardo+galvani+vanbtnG=
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

From BBC News: http://tinyurl.com/pg4wo94

Lee
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Comcast has bounced me off. Since I no longer get posts from Texas Cavers, I am 
posting this in the blind. Could the administrator contact me off list and 
advise if I have done the correct thing to get restablished? 
dirt...@comcast.net 



I am sure others have been caught by this. 



It also affected the SWR Caver.Net remailer. 



Steve Ball (SWR) wrote on 6/9/2014: 

A couple of the big email sites (hotmail, aol, comcast) have begun to get a 
little more strict on who they accept mail from, and unfortunately today, the 
server that sends you the caver.net lists found itself whacked by their checks. 
I've made some updates that should resolve things, and will be monitoring the 
situation in case it doesn't. So don't panic if you receive an email suggesting 
your subscription is disabled! 



Bill Bentley just wrote: 

I went in and reinstated everyone who had been disabled, I can not 
however re subscribe anyone who was automatically unsubscribed. 



I am assuming that I was not yet unsubscribed automatically from SWR, but it 
appears that I was from Texas Cavers. I will wait to see if I get more posts 
from SWR and will go back in and try to re-subscribe to Texas cavers. 



DirtDoc 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

From Science News:

http://tinyurl.com/nqfue8u

Lee
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Just using this forum to have some fun

Having just been out to a small cave on the BCI Bracken property that had
numerous pulsating mats of Harvestmen. You know the kind, where big mats of
them would peel off the walls and cover the cavers in the small entrance.

I believe Ellie made a short video of same recently.

It made me question if the proper name for a group of Spiders...Cluster or
Clutter is appropriate in this case.

Same goes for a group of Crickets = Orchestra
Cave crickets are pretty quite.

What say all of you.
Could we come up with some more appropriate and colorful 'Group' names for
our beloved cave creatures.

I'll start
A Pulse Harvestmen
A Dragoon of Cave Crickets - they remind me of mounted infantry

Other insects or names
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
To add to the fun, Wikipedia lists the following group 
nouns:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_collective_nouns_in_EnglishSome of 
my personal faves:a murder of crows, an unkindness of ravens and a stare of 
raccoons.I'd like to nominate the following for harvestmen:a pillow of 
harvestmen.Louise
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:54:30 -0500
From: robert.c.b1...@gmail.com
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Cluster or Clutter of Spiders' Specifically Harvestmen 
Daddy Longlegs

Just using this forum to have some fun
Having just been out to a small cave on the BCI Bracken property that had 
numerous pulsating mats of Harvestmen. You know the kind, where big mats of 
them would peel off the walls and cover the cavers in the small entrance.

I believe Ellie made a short video of same recently.

It made me question if the proper name for a group of Spiders...Cluster or 
Clutter is appropriate in this case.

Same goes for a group of Crickets = OrchestraCave crickets are pretty quite.
What say all of you. Could we come up with some more appropriate and colorful 
'Group' names for our beloved cave creatures.

I'll startA Pulse 

texascavers Digest 9 Jun 2014 17:03:03 -0000 Issue 1992

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Jun 2014 17:03:03 - Issue 1992

Topics (messages 23922 through 23925):

book review: crystal caves of Mexico
23922 by: Mixon Bill

book review: archeological investigations
23923 by: Mixon Bill

almost a funny story
23924 by: David

Rescue in Germany at a -1148 m cave
23925 by: Fofo

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--
---BeginMessage---
Journey into the Giant Selenite Crystal Caves of Mexico. Leela  
Hutchison. CreateSpace; 2014. ISBN 978-1496145680. 6 by 9 inches,  
softbound, 102 pages. $19.95.


This little book was self-published by the author using CreateSpace  
and is sold by Amazon. There is also a Kindle version. One might  
expect a book with such a high price per page to contain a lot of nice  
color photos of the spectacular giant crystals, but in fact the book  
contains only a few small, mostly poor-quality black-and-white ones.  
The text isn't much either, the type being large, and isn't much to  
brag about, either. It could have used a good going over by a middle- 
school English teacher. After some background on the author's interest  
in crystals, it tells the story of the author's 2001 visit to the  
recently discovered Ojo de la Reina and Cave of the Crystals in the  
Naica mine in Chihuahua. She was one of the first two women to visit  
the caves, apparently on the same trip when Carlos Lazcano took the  
first photographs of the crystals to be published in caving  
literature, in AMCS Activities Newsletter 25, 2002. The visit,  
without benefit of the cooling gear used on later explorations, was  
grueling, but very exciting to the author, who is into healing by  
crystal energy and that sort of thing.—Bill Mixon


Work is the curse of the drinking class.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Cave Explorations in Missouri, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, and  
Alabama. Gerard Fowke. St. Louis, J. Missouri; 2013. ISBN  
978-1-940777-06-1. 5.5 by 8.5 inches, softbound, 209 pages. $14.95.


This is an abridged reprint, newly typeset, of Fowke's classic 1922  
Archeological Investigations, bulletin 76 of the Bureau of American  
Ethnology at the Smithsonian Institution. The grayscale illustrations  
in the original are well reproduced. Roughly the first three-quarters  
of the reprint covers about seventy-five caves and a few other sites  
in Missouri; the remainder is devoted to caves in the other states in  
the title. The material in the original that is not included, about a  
quarter of that book, is non-cave material, including archaeology of  
Hawaii. (A couple of modern cave burials in Hawaii are mentioned.)  
Amazon lists at least three recent facsimile reprints of the whole  
book, at higher prices. It isn't hard to find a used original on the  
web for less than the price of this partial reprint.—Bill Mixon


Work is the curse of the drinking class.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Sorry I missed the big party in Austin, Saturday evening.

For the record, I drove from Houston about 5 miles west in that
direction procrastinating
back and forth about going.  I decided not to go. Then I made a U-turn
and headed back towards the
party, and drove for about 1/4 mile before I made another U-turn.
Finally, facing the music, I yelled some explicatives to the wind, and
then went and had dinner and
watched the X-Games on tv at the restaurant, which ironically were
going on in Austin.

I sat there pondering and had to accept that the realities of life
this time, were greater than my irresponsibilites.

A few hours later, as I was sitting around the apartment with nothing
to do, I almost got in the
car with the goal of getting there by 2 a.m. and just taking a quick
dip in The Pond
and then camping out enjoying the summer weather, and maybe having breakfast
with any cavers that camped out there.But that seemed like a bad idea.

Hopefully, I can make one of the Sunday Swims later this summer.


On a related note,

I am still looking for a roommate at my apartment near downtown Houston.  If I
do not find one by the end of the month, I will have to pack up and
put all my stuff in my rental storage unit again.  I wasted so
much 

texascavers Digest 6 Jun 2014 15:35:02 -0000 Issue 1991

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 6 Jun 2014 15:35:02 - Issue 1991

Topics (messages 23913 through 23921):

Re: June 6st Presentation Info
23913 by: Geary Schindel

Scientists Find Bat Feared Extinct
23914 by: Lee H. Skinner

consumer tip for cavers
23915 by: David

Easy donating to the TCMA on Amazon.com
23916 by: Stefan Creaser
23920 by: Charles Goldsmith

Pepcid radio commercial ?
23917 by: David

Bustamante Survey
23918 by: Espeleo Coahuila

Re: Bustamante related
23919 by: David

House for sale in south Austin caver hood
23921 by: Jim Kennedy

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

Folks,

Just to clarify, Chris will be making a slide presentation about the Holocaust 
era cave story and will not be showing a film. He is an excellent speaker and 
I’m sure you’ll appreciate the presentation.

Geary


From: Geary Schindel
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 3:13 PM
To: 'Geary Schindel'
Subject: FW: June 6st Presentation Info

Chris asked me to forward this various list servers. I saw Chris speak and show 
the film at the National Speleological Society convention last year in 
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania and it was outstanding. Here is a rare opportunity 
to see the film in Boerne (San Antonio area).

Hi Everyone,

On Friday, June 6st I'll be giving a 8:00 PM presentation in the San Antonio, 
Texas area about the Holocaust era cave survival story featured in my book, The 
Secret of Priest's Grotto and the associated documentary, No Place On Earth 
(www.noplaceonearthfilm.comhttp://www.noplaceonearthfilm.com). Admission $20 
plus tax at door. Please contact Thomas Summers 
(t...@cavewithoutaname.commailto:t...@cavewithoutaname.com) at Cave Without A 
Name (325 Kreutzberg Rd. Boerne, TX 78006) for additional details. Please 
arrive at least 15 to 30 minutes in advance.

Regards,
Chris

Chris Nicola
chrisnic...@juno.commailto:chrisnic...@juno.com
Www.chrisnicola.comhttp://Www.chrisnicola.com
Www.priestsgrotto.comhttp://Www.priestsgrotto.com
I am in part all that I have seen and met (Tennyson, from the poem Ulysses)
attachment: winmail.dat---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Researchers studying bats in Papua New Guinea came across a long-lost 
friend in their nets: a female identified as a New Guinea big-eared bat, 
reports /Scientific American/ 
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/2014/06/03/bat-extinct-rediscovered/. 
It's noteworthy because no specimen has been seen in 124 years, and the 
species was feared to be extinct. Now that a positive ID has been made, 
researchers plan to return to the area to look for more and add to the 
scant knowledge of the creature. The bad news: The female found was 
ethically euthanized after it was caught, the Australian researchers 
write in the /Conversation/ 
http://theconversation.com/lost-bat-species-rediscovered-after-120-years-in-the-wilderness-26062, 
so we'll hope she wasn't the last of her kind. Assuming more exist, the 
big-eared bats might be in trouble anyway because of how quickly local 
rainforests are being cleared to make room for development and 
agriculture, say the researchers. The same applies to other microbats 
and creatures of all kinds. Who knows what other species are out 
there? they write. If we're not careful, they might be gone before we 
can find them. Adds John Platt of /Scientific American/: We may not 
have another 120 years to save this rediscovered species.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
If you are ever in need of some free heavy duty cardboard boxes to
pack your caving
books, or store something in the closet, I have found a place that regularly
has such an item.

It is a store called Batteries+.   They ship batteries in boxes, so
the boxes have to
be rugged.For some crazy reason, they throw away excellent boxes.

They even sell some things you might find useful such as flashlights
and batteries, although their prices are higher than the big discount
stores.

While I have your attention,

I have been spending most of my spare time
the past week or so on Linkedin.This place on the web appears to be
picking up steam, and I see lots of people at least trying it, or have just
signed up for an account.I have not yet made enough money using it
to justify the
time spent, but it seems productive for someone who is trying to market
their job skills, in a way far better than other services on the
Internet.  I did
receive a phone call yesterday from a prospective employer, that I was only
able to reach via their Linkedin page, and a few hours later, we exchanged
a cell-phone text-message.  That
process would have taken weeks back in the 

texascavers Digest 27 May 2014 15:00:25 -0000 Issue 1987

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 27 May 2014 15:00:25 - Issue 1987

Topics (messages 23890 through 23895):

Re: [SWR] Background on the FOIA request to BLM
23890 by: Julia Germany

Re: [SWR] Ringing stones
23891 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23892 by: Pete Lindsley
23893 by: Aimee Beveridge
23894 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

the skeleton in water-filled pit in Mexico
23895 by: Mixon Bill

Administrivia:

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Hi Louise!

Having worked for local and state government in two countries (Texas and East 
Germany), and for multiple agencies,  your feed back has been spot on as to how 
to handle delicate and productive communications to these agencies.  In my 
opinion, you have never once suggested not exercising ones freedom of speech, 
only provided excellent feedback on how to make exercising this right 
productive. I have found these listservs to be hot buttons for those who have 
knee jerk reactions, if not just being jerks in general. The original thread 
about the FOIA should have been applauded and read thoroughly to realize that 
the response to all of the valid FOIA requests will take a significant amount 
of time. It's very unfortunate that others do not understand the process, and 
did not find your professional insights valid. Contacting you personally with 
harsh criticism is not warranted, justified or going to make a difference. I 
appreciate you putting a stop to this thread and being willing to continue to 
contribute your knowledge to the group on future topics. 
Wishing you a peaceful rest of your holiday weekend. I look forward to your 
professional and thoughtful future contributions.

- julia germany  

- from julia's cell

 On May 25, 2014, at 19:13, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 To all:  
 
 Nobody is trying to abridge anyone's constitutional freedoms. Only to point 
 out that there are ways of exercising them that are more productive than 
 others. Email bombing and bullying are not productive ways of dealing with 
 any executive. I'm done with this conversation. Nothing productive is being 
 said at this point and I'm tired of being email bombed and bullied and I'm 
 not even an excutive. I'm just a nice person who used to be a very active 
 caver in the 60s and 70s. I no longer want to be the object of your whiney, 
 I'm being so abused, I can do and say whatever I want rants. Ask 
 yourself, does anybody really care!  According to your complaints, possibly 
 not, and certainly not me any more. Let's find something else to talk about.
 
 Louise
 
 Subject: Re: [SWR] Background on the FOIA request to BLM
 From: pagan...@comcast.net
 Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 11:06:57 -0600
 CC: power_lou...@hotmail.com; s...@caver.net
 To: lobofl...@gmail.com
 
 Jeff and Louise, 
 In reading your open discussion of your previous e mail below, I offer this, 
 also keeping it open:
 
 This is amendment I of the US Constitution, part of the Bill of Rights: 
 
  Amendment I of the US Constitution:
 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or 
 prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or 
 of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to 
 petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 
 The last three sentences are what it seems to be all about and beginning to 
 happen here: freedom of speech or of the press, the right to send e mails as 
 often as we like; the right to peaceably assemble-as at the regional or any 
 other way we like;  last and most important of all, the right to petition the 
 Government for a redress of grievances. i.e. an FOIA regarding the policies 
 of cave closure and WNS. 
 
 As for anyone stating that you don't have a clue, I again refer to the 
 Constitution of the United States, especially the part about to petition the 
 Government for a redress of grievances.  It states nothing about the 
 workload or anything else for whom the petition is directed. 
 
 As in my previous e mail dated 05/24, which I now include in this discussion:
 
 To set the record straight: Bullying, or being bullied, according to 
 www.meriam-webster.com, is to treat abusively, to affect by means of 
 coercion, to use browbeating language or behavior.  
 
 Filing a FOIA request, or having one or 10,000 individuals send respectful e 
 mails to one or more BLM and or state officials is not bullying. To 
 paraphrase Lynda Sanchez in a recent post,  it is a beautiful part of this 
 country- TO BE HEARD,  whether in a town hall meeting, or as an individual 
 participating in threads on the SWR list-or sending a respectful e mail 
 request to a BLM 

texascavers Digest 20 May 2014 14:08:37 -0000 Issue 1982

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 20 May 2014 14:08:37 - Issue 1982

Topics (messages 23858 through 23862):

USS and UT Grotto Meeting May 21st
23858 by: Andrea Croskrey

Re: Article by Mr. Cave
23859 by: Marvin and Lisa
23861 by: Gill Edigar
23862 by: Mark Minton

Human migration into North America
23860 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Howdy Texas Cavers!

Come get pumped about going to the NSS Convention in Alabama this summer,
http://nss2014.caves.org/, by coming to the meeting this Wednesday and and
hearing Sofia Casini and Galen Falgout talk about some amazing TAG caves!
[TAG = T.A.G.=Tennessee-Alabama-Georgia!]

The meeting, hosted by the University Speleological Society, is at
7:45pm in *Burdine
136*. Follow this link to a map of where the building is located on the
University of Texas campus:
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org

Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for
happy hour specials. Attendance by cavers varies but this area is the best
place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting.  Then after the
USS meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for
burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.  www.posse-east.com

Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
When I first moved out to the Bulverde area I noticed a rock house set back
off of 1863 just as you enter Bulverde from the east. In a terrace wall,
spelled out in rock, and easily visible from the road, was the word CAVE.
I wondered at first if it was advertising a long forgotten tourist cave but
found out later that it was the name of people who lived there. The wall, or
at least the letters, have since been removed.

  _  

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 11:31 AM
To: Preston Forsythe; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Article by Mr. Cave


Hi Preston,
 
In answer to your question:  Is the last name, Cave, common?
 
I did a quick check on Ancestry.com and saw that there were 1,566,853
entries for the name Cave. That, of course, doesn't mean that many
individuals by the name Cave, but includes every place that the name is
mentioned in every document in their database; includes things like birth
and death certs, wills, immigration and other public records, family trees,
military records, prison and orphanage records, mentions in newspapers and
other publications, et al. My own family has multiple entries for each
family member. Could even include a few real underground, geological
anomalies. They rarely have records on live people because of potential
legal issues. In the family trees online, live people are generally referred
to as unlisted. Censuses through 1940 can now be viewed online. The next
census (1950) will not be out for 70 years. If someone is interested and
does not have personal access to Ancestry.com or one of the other
genealogical sites, they can go to their nearest Morman Family History
Library and use their facilities free of charge. I've found the people who
work there very accommodating.
 
How do I know these things? I've been working on my family history for over
20 years.
 
Good luck, Louise
 

 From: pns_...@bellsouth.net
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:32:56 -0500
 Subject: [Texascavers] Article by Mr. Cave
 
 Yes, by Damien Cave, headline in today's NYT, about life in Laredo today, 
 and mention of I-35 to Duluth.
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/us/deep-ties-tested-on-mexicos-border.html
?hp
 
 Is the last name, Cave, common?
 
 While I have your attention, a lot of work was done this weekend at the 
 Huntsville hdqtrs, drywall mud and more drywall joint compound, i.e., mud
, 
 plus a major new double door installation.
 
 You may be surprised how popular Quinceaneras (mentioned in the link) are
in 
 Huntsville. At least 600 attended a party for a 15 year old at the hdqtrs 
 Saturday night. Good income for the NSS.
 
 
 Preston in KY 
 
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I grew up with a family named Cave and have knows several others since. The
name Cuevas is common in Mexico. I was once told that the family name is
pluralized as Los Cuevas while caves are pluralized as Las Cuevas.

texascavers Digest 17 May 2014 19:18:01 -0000 Issue 1980

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 17 May 2014 19:18:01 - Issue 1980

Topics (messages 23838 through 23849):

Sunken body clue to American origins
23838 by: Stefan Creaser

Cavers helping cavers
23839 by: David

Developing Yucatan Underwater Cave News
23840 by: Preston Forsythe

New World's Oldest Skeleton Found in the Yucatan
23841 by: Preston Forsythe
23842 by: Fofo
23843 by: Fofo
23846 by: Pete Lindsley

Hoyo Negro girl
23844 by: Mixon Bill
23845 by: Mixon Bill

Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] New World's Oldest Skeleton Found in the Yucatan
23847 by: Diana Tomchick

Bat infestation in an interesting place
23848 by: Julia Germany

Another new LED headlamp
23849 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27432234


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium. Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered 
in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Even far from The Center of the Caving Universe, cavers sometimes help each
other.

I spent 8 hours today working my tail off in the Texas sun, helping a
caver, and another 2 hours driving.

He is supposed to pay me though, so my efforts do not count towards
anything noteworthy, but I would not be doing it, if he was not a caver.

I could also say that they helped me too, as I am now certified by OSHA to
be a safe entry level construction worker.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Announced in the NYT today, a full skeleton of a pre-historic young girl has 
been found in an underwater eastern Yucatan cave. This provides fossil evidence 
of the Bering Strait land bridge link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/science/prehistoric-skeleton-in-mexico-is-said-to-link-modern-native-americans-to-siberians.html?hp_r=0

Preston in KY
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Video and story from today's WSJ.

Do we know any of the cavers-cave divers?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303908804579563971867031520.html?mod=djemITP_h


Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Yup, Beto Nava (yellow drysuit in the video/pictures) and Susan Bird 
(blue drysuit in the video/pictures) are very active divers in Monterey 
(the _other_ Monterey, the one in California) and cave divers in Mexico 
(and other places, but because of their research they've been diving a 
lot in Mexico recently).


They're both very nice and part (or the core group) of the Bay Area 
Underwater Explorers in Monterey.


Beto is in Mexico City today for a conference on this finding.

- Fofo


On 16/05/14 06:16, Preston Forsythe wrote:

Video and story from today's WSJ.
Do we know any of the cavers-cave divers?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303908804579563971867031520.html?mod=djemITP_h
Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Oh, here's another link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2629505/Was-Naia-American-Teenage-girls-skeleton-dating-ice-age-13-000-years-ago-oldest-Americas.html


- Fofo



On 16/05/14 07:28, Fofo wrote:

Yup, Beto Nava (yellow drysuit in the video/pictures) and Susan Bird
(blue drysuit in the video/pictures) are very active divers in Monterey
(the _other_ Monterey, the one in California) and cave divers in Mexico
(and other places, but because of their research they've been diving a
lot in Mexico recently).

They're both very nice and part (or the core group) of the Bay Area
Underwater Explorers in Monterey.

Beto is in Mexico City today for a conference on this finding.

- Fofo


On 16/05/14 06:16, Preston Forsythe wrote:

Video and story from today's WSJ.
Do we know any of the cavers-cave divers?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303908804579563971867031520.html?mod=djemITP_h

Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
(Sorry again. Just rebooted my mail program which was grabbing the 

texascavers Digest 15 May 2014 14:45:01 -0000 Issue 1978

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 15 May 2014 14:45:01 - Issue 1978

Topics (messages 23827 through 23835):

2014 TSA Spring Convention Visual Arts Salon Awards
23827 by: R D Milhollin
23835 by: R D Milhollin

Opinion, based on observations and not facts
23828 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

New subterranean catfish found in India
23829 by: Louise Power

Sandstone caves
23830 by: David

expensive book
23831 by: Mixon Bill

Re: an expensive book
23832 by: Joe Ranzau
23833 by: Don Arburn

TSA Convention 2014
23834 by: Carl Kunath

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---



At this year's TSA Spring Convention Visual Arts Salon there were many 
extraordinary entries in the categories of cartography, photography, and fine 
arts. 



In the cartography division there were 8 entries by Texas cavers Dale Barnard, 
Marvin Miller, David Ochel, Will Quast, and Peter Sprouse. David Ochel won a 
merit blue ribbon for Wildflower Cave, Travis County, and Marvin Miller won 
two honorable mention awards for Government Canyon Blowhole and Taylor Bat 
Cave. Thanks to judges Don Arburn, Dave Cave McClung, and Orien Knox for 
spending considerable time making difficult decisions. 

The photographic and fine arts divisions were combined for judging. There were 
6 photo entries by Bennett Lee, David Ochel, and Will Quast, and three fine art 
entries by Evelyn Townsend. The photographic merit award went to David Ochel 
for Follow the Flowstone, and an honorable mention ribbon was awarded to 
Bennett Lee for Translucent Wing. Bennett was also the winner of the TCMA 
Merit Award for best entry depicting or representing a Texas conservancy cave 
preserve. Evelyn Townsend's Etched Shell Pendant earned a merit award for 
fine arts. Her entries were donated to the TCMA auction that followed the 
presentation of salon awards. Thanks to dedicated judges Jocie Hooper, Jay 
Jorden, and Dr. Ann Scott. 

Additional thanks to Bill Steele for use of the heavy-duty tent that housed the 
salons, and to the several volunteers who helped to set up and disassemble it. 
Photos of the salon exhibit will be sent to the Texas Caver editor, and 
volunteers to help with next year's salons and ideas for improvement are 
needed. Please contact RD Milhollin at this e-mail address. 

Now is the time to begin preparing for the 2015 TSA Visual Arts Salon. So get 
down and begin taking cave photos, drafting cave maps, and creating 
cave-related art, and have those completed projects ready to dazzle attendees 
at next year's TSA Spring Convention.---End Message---
---BeginMessage---




At this year's TSA Spring Convention Visual Arts Salon there were many 
extraordinary entries in the categories of cartography, photography, and fine 
arts. 



In the cartography division there were 8 entries by Texas cavers Dale Barnard, 
Marvin Miller, David Ochel, Will Quast, and Peter Sprouse. David Ochel won a 
merit blue ribbon for Wildflower Cave, Travis County, and Marvin Miller won 
two honorable mention awards for Government Canyon Blowhole and Taylor Bat 
Cave. Thanks to judges Don Arburn, Dave Cave McClung, and Orien Knox for 
spending considerable time making difficult decisions. 

The photographic and fine arts divisions were combined for judging. There were 
6 photo entries by Bennett Lee, David Ochel, and Will Quast, and three fine art 
entries by Evelyn Townsend. The photographic merit award went to David Ochel 
for Follow the Flowstone, and an honorable mention ribbon was awarded to 
Bennett Lee for Translucent Wing. Bennett was also the winner of the TCMA 
Merit Award for best entry depicting or representing a Texas conservancy cave 
preserve. Evelyn Townsend's Etched Shell Pendant earned a merit award for 
fine arts. Her entries were donated to the TCMA auction that followed the 
presentation of salon awards. Thanks to dedicated judges Jocie Hooper, Jay 
Jorden, and Dr. Ann Scott. 

Additional thanks to Bill Steele for use of the heavy-duty tent that housed the 
salons, and to the several volunteers who helped to set up and disassemble it. 
Photos of the salon exhibit will be sent to the Texas Caver editor, and 
volunteers to help with next year's salons and ideas for improvement are 
needed. Please contact RD Milhollin at this e-mail address. 

Now is the time to begin preparing for the 2015 TSA Visual Arts Salon. So get 
down and begin taking cave photos, drafting cave maps, and creating 
cave-related art, and have those completed projects ready to dazzle attendees 
at next year's TSA Spring Convention.---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


If you have not read Harvey's comments, do that 

texascavers Digest 14 May 2014 14:11:45 -0000 Issue 1977

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 14 May 2014 14:11:45 - Issue 1977

Topics (messages 23809 through 23826):

Caves of Nigeria
23809 by: Preston Forsythe
23813 by: Mark Minton
23816 by: George Veni
23817 by: William Tucker
23819 by: Mark Minton
23820 by: Gill Edigar
23826 by: Buford Pruitt

Caves near Columbia, TN
23810 by: kwstafford.juno.com
23811 by: Jim Kennedy
23812 by: Geary Schindel

Alamo Cement
23814 by: Bennett Lee

2014 TSA Spring Convention Visual Arts Salon Awards
23815 by: R D Milhollin

Re: [SWR] Recruitment help - Term GS-7 Cave Management Specialist
23818 by: Diana Tomchick

Nigerian caves
23821 by: Mixon Bill

an expensive book
23822 by: David
23823 by: Jim Kennedy
23824 by: Mark Minton
23825 by: Preston Forsythe

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the 
kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in endless 
caves in the mountains along the border. Are there any Nigeria cave experts 
out there?


Preston in KY 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton  Waltham, The 
Underground Atlas (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface 
limestone and no major karst features. However it also says that 
there are some extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently 
large enough that they were being considered for tourist development. 
However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the 
girls are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with 
news reports like this, the so-called caves may really be mines 
and/or rock shelters.


Mark

At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote:
Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on 
the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden 
in endless caves in the mountains along the border. Are there any 
Nigeria cave experts out there?


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World Karst Map. 
I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in Nigeria. 
However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly sandstone, shale, 
etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone mixed in those units 
that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, although we are 
continuing to dig through the data to pull out more information on karstic and 
potentially karstic units. The final map will be finished in a couple of years 
and may show something on Nigeria that isn't in the current draft.

In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone shelters or 
maybe mines.

George


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

-Original Message-
From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:35 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria

 I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton  Waltham, The Underground 
Atlas (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone and no major karst 
features. However it also says that there are some extensive caves in 
sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they were being considered for 
tourist development. 
However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls are 
thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports like 
this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters.

Mark

At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote:
Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the 
kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in 
endless caves in the mountains along the border. Are there any 
Nigeria cave experts out there?

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
If articles on Wikipedia can be used as some type of statistical sampling, 
for whatever it is worth (not much): 

texascavers Digest 7 May 2014 21:57:05 -0000 Issue 1974

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 7 May 2014 21:57:05 - Issue 1974

Topics (messages 23789 through 23796):

Re: Vertical related
23789 by: David

Re: Bad fire season a-comin'
23790 by: Jacqueline Thomas

Way to save a tortoise!
23791 by: Louise Power

caver.net mailing lists
23792 by: Bill Bentley

Misplaced (packed) extension cords from Spring Convention.
23793 by: caverarch

Oklahoma removed from list of suspected bat fungus areas
23794 by: William Tucker

articles
23795 by: Jill Orr

Disposable caving boots
23796 by: David

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
According to the news reports today, the circus apparatus and the
acrobats weighed 1,500 pounds and where held up by
a single steel carabiner rated at 10,000 pounds.   They allege the
carabiner snapped.I want to see a photo of that.   It must
have had a fracture, because on a a tensile test machine those things
don't just snap, but deform before snapping, and would still supported
1,500 pounds if stretched open, unless it somehow got rigged
horizontally by getting tangled in something.

The picture below shows the carabiner, but you have to squint to see it.

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2631836.1399248145!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_300/circus-accident.jpg

A 5/8 stainless-steel anchor shackle like the one pictured below has
a rated breaking load of 26,000 pounds, and only cost about $ 40 plus
tax, and could safely handle 9,750 pounds, and they are readily
available in 3 larger sizes.   The galvanized versions are stronger
than the stainless-steel versions, but are given the same working load
rating.

http://www.e-rigging.com/assets/images/Drawings/SS_Bolt-Type_Shackle_Drawing.jpg

My bet is their D-ring had not been properly cared for, and dropped
hard on the concrete.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Very good advice for anyone living in an urban/wild land interface. That said, 
last time I was at Punkin/Deep the building was in excellent shape regarding 
wildfire preparedness. 

We have already had a 14,000+ acre wildfire out this way. Which brings me to 
another concern: Don't burn stuff outside. Anything. The aforementioned fire 
was started by someone burning trash.

Keep cool and be safe,
Jacqui


On May 5, 2014, at 1:43 PM, Louise Power wrote:

 According to all indications, this may be one of the worst wildfire seasons 
 on record because of the continuing drought and hot weather. I
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Congratulations to the two BCI employees who rescued a tortoise from an Arizona 
mineshaft. The tortoise had fallen 20 feet to the floor and they were able to 
bring it up and take it in for care. It had a hole in its shell. Good work, 
guys!   ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The caver.net mailing lists are down as the server is being migrated I
don't think anything will be lost... only delayed...
Thanks,
Bill Bentley
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I just got a call from Tom Summers of CWAN.  We (TSS? Or another entity with a 
trailer and lots of stuff set up by the pavilion?) accidentally packed up and 
left with two of his grounded extension cords, one yellow and one orange. Tom 
is not upset at all (and he really enjoyed the convention) but would like to 
get the cords back.


Roger 






---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
 I haven't seen anyone discussing this; possibly because the news has 
not gotten around, yet. I just received this press announcement.







   May 6, 2014

   A service of the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife 
Conservation






   OKLAHOMA REMOVED FROM LIST OF SUSPECTED BAT FUNGUS 
AREAS




   After re-examining an Oklahoma bat specimen 
originally tested in 2010, scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey 
National Wildlife Health Center have dropped Oklahoma from the list of areas 
where White-Nose Syndrome in bats has been suspected or confirmed.




   The scientists have also removed the Cave Myotis 
(Myotis velifer) from the list of bat species that have tested positive for 
the fungus (Pseudogymnoascus destructans) that has been associated with 
White-Nose Syndrome, which since 2006 has killed millions of hibernating 
bats primarily in the eastern United States and Canada.




   The Oklahoma specimen was collected in a private 
Woodward County cave in May 2010, and at the time appeared to have the 
fungus. While original test results were positive for the fungus associated 
with White-Nose Syndrome, new 

texascavers Digest 5 May 2014 21:52:08 -0000 Issue 1973

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 5 May 2014 21:52:08 - Issue 1973

Topics (messages 23782 through 23788):

TSA Spring Convention Group Photo
23782 by: Bennett Lee

Vertical related
23783 by: David

recent email bounces
23784 by: Charles Goldsmith

TSA group photo is UP!
23785 by: Bennett Lee
23786 by: Charles Goldsmith

Bad fire season a-comin'
23787 by: Louise Power

Give Grande New Mexico - National Cave and Karst Research Institute
23788 by: George Veni

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
First, let me say behave of the TCMA, thank you all for your generous 
contributions and bids to the TCMA Auction.  We raised over $6000, which is a 
new auction record.  This money helps cover our operating expenses to maintain 
our cave preserves.  For example, the Deep and Punkin cabin, which offers a 
fine reprieve after our long survey trips, is in desperate need of a new roof.  
Other properties need kiosks, gate repair, cleanup, etc. and your support at 
the auction is a step in covering these expenses, but it doesn't cover 
everything!  So I urge you to help throughout the year by using our new Amazon 
link in the banner of the TCMA website 
(www.tcmacaves.orghttp://www.tcmacaves.org).  All you have to do is click the 
link, then buy whatever you were planning to buy from Amazon, and Amazon will 
contribute 5% of your order total to the TCMA.  It doesn't cost you anything 
extra-the contribution is paid directly out of Amazon's profits.  Just click, 
the link, buy something, and you automatically contribute to the TCMA.  Thank 
you in advance for using the link, and again thank you for your support at the 
TCMA Auction!

Now, for the real topic of this email...the TSA Spring Convention 2014 group 
photo is ready!  I will (1) post it on Facebook so everyone can share and tag, 
and (2) also post it to my Flickr account so those who refuse to succumb to 
Facebook have access to the photo.  Flickr also gives everyone access to the 
full-res version.  HOWEVER, I would like to stamp the TSA logo along with 
Spring Convention 2014 and probably Cave without a Name on the photo so 50 
years from now future generations can look back and know what, when, and where 
this old photo was, and Kayla Mitchell's grandchildren laugh and say Wow, 
grandma!  You look silly!

So, before I post the photo, who has to the current TSA logo?  I need the 
vector drawing, like the original Illustrator or .EPS file, *not* a JPG.  
Contact me off-list ASAP and I'll get the photo updated and posted for 
everyone.  Thanks!

Bennett Lee
benn...@bennettlee.commailto:benn...@bennettlee.com

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Have you all watched the video of the recent circus accident ?

Whatever attachment they had in place obviously was not designed by a
competent person, nor installed by a competent person as OSHA requires.

I am pretty sure OSHA does not allow the worker's PFAS to be installed to
the equipment they are standing on., and the dancer below was not wearing a
hard-hat, nor were any of the acrobats.

It just seems so obvious, that there was no backup system in place in case
of failure.

I bet the circus act designer's emphasis on portability and reduction in
weight were factors in the faulty design.  It will be interesting to see if
a pin came loose, or there was a fracture in the main link.

Somewhere there is a personal injury attorney with a big smile on his face.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I've received a few forwarded emails from people who received a bounce
notification in the last few days.  It seems that the big email
providers, gmail, yahoo, aol, etc, are using some new technology to
fight spammers and my software isn't aware of it.

So far, each person has only received one notification and all seems
to be ok, but I can't guarantee it.

Most people don't know that I keep an online archive of all messages,
you can't post from it, I have it disabled, but you can go back and
search, view posts here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex

You don't need a google account to view it.

I'm considering moving the list over to new software, I'm overdue for
an upgrade on my software.  When I get ready to do this, I'll notify
the group of any known down time for the maintenance.

Thanks all!
Charles
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
TSA Spring Convention 2014 group photo is up!  As far as I'm concerned, this 
photo is public domain.  Share, copy, print as you desire (first thing you'll 
probably want to do is blot out James Brown).

Facebook (public so even those without a Facebook account should be able to see 
it with tags):

texascavers Digest 3 May 2014 18:50:19 -0000 Issue 1972

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 3 May 2014 18:50:19 - Issue 1972

Topics (messages 23763 through 23781):

Subaru drivers
23763 by: Bennett Lee
23765 by: Christi burrell
23766 by: Charles Goldsmith
23767 by: Don Arburn
23768 by: Herman Miller
23770 by: Charles Goldsmith
23773 by: Mimi Jasek

New film on World's largest cave chamber
23764 by: Frank Binney

Correction and Addition toSpring Convention, General Agenda:
23769 by: caverarch

TCMA auction and table at spring convention
23771 by: Saj Zappitello

Pond Party  Sunday Swims
23772 by: pstrickland1.austin.rr.com

TSA belt buckle for TCMA auction at TSA Convention
23774 by: Logan McNatt

TSA belt buckle owners
23775 by: Logan McNatt
23776 by: Bill Bentley
23777 by: caverarch

Ready for the TSA Spring Convention? We think we are! Starting now!
23778 by: caverarch
23779 by: Stefan Creaser

TSA Convention: Recycling and a Burn Ban in Effect at CWAN
23780 by: caverarch

UT Grotto Meeting May 7th ***LOCATION CHANGE***
23781 by: Andrea Croskrey

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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--
---BeginMessage---
Does anyone drive or know who drives a pale Subaru with large Texas NSS bat 
sticker in the lower-left side of their rear window?  I've seen the car twice 
on Lockhill-Selma in San Antonio but haven't been able to see the driver.  Just 
curious which caver car I don't recognize keeps driving by my neighborhood.

--Bennett
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The Subaru mystery driver would be me. I was working in that area till Feb but 
I also have family members in the area so you are likely to see my car scooting 
around Lockhill-Selma  Military.

Christi Burrell

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2014, at 9:32 PM, Bennett Lee benn...@bennettlee.com wrote:

 Does anyone drive or know who drives a pale Subaru with large Texas NSS bat 
 sticker in the lower-left side of their rear window?  I’ve seen the car twice 
 on Lockhill-Selma in San Antonio but haven’t been able to see the driver.  
 Just curious which caver car I don’t recognize keeps driving by my 
 neighborhood.
  
 --Bennett
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Things to do for fun when bored:

Drive around in known neighborhoods of cavers, make sure your vehicle
has visible bat/caving stickers.  Wait till cavers posts asking who it
is :)

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Christi burrell chri...@oztotl.com wrote:
 The Subaru mystery driver would be me. I was working in that area till Feb
 but I also have family members in the area so you are likely to see my car
 scooting around Lockhill-Selma  Military.

 Christi Burrell

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 30, 2014, at 9:32 PM, Bennett Lee benn...@bennettlee.com wrote:

 Does anyone drive or know who drives a pale Subaru with large Texas NSS bat
 sticker in the lower-left side of their rear window?  I’ve seen the car
 twice on Lockhill-Selma in San Antonio but haven’t been able to see the
 driver.  Just curious which caver car I don’t recognize keeps driving by my
 neighborhood.



 --Bennett
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Or for the real sport, finding bat stickers on Google Earth.

Sent cellularly.
-Don

 On May 1, 2014, at 9:51 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 
 Things to do for fun when bored:
 
 Drive around in known neighborhoods of cavers, make sure your vehicle
 has visible bat/caving stickers.  Wait till cavers posts asking who it
 is :)
 
 On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Christi burrell chri...@oztotl.com wrote:
 The Subaru mystery driver would be me. I was working in that area till Feb
 but I also have family members in the area so you are likely to see my car
 scooting around Lockhill-Selma  Military.
 
 Christi Burrell
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Apr 30, 2014, at 9:32 PM, Bennett Lee benn...@bennettlee.com wrote:
 
 Does anyone drive or know who drives a pale Subaru with large Texas NSS bat
 sticker in the lower-left side of their rear window?  I’ve seen the car
 twice on Lockhill-Selma in San Antonio but haven’t been able to see the
 driver.  Just curious which caver car I don’t recognize keeps driving by my
 neighborhood.
 
 
 
 --Bennett
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
As many of you know I am often working at a traffic checkpoint outside of a
national park.  I don't know how many times I speak to someone only to see
that they are 

texascavers Digest 1 May 2014 02:23:30 -0000 Issue 1971

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 1 May 2014 02:23:30 - Issue 1971

Topics (messages 23749 through 23762):

TSA Convention
23749 by: Jim Kennedy

Paging Ron Rutherford
23750 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com

Re: Status of New Mexico Caves?
23751 by: Charles Goldsmith

sort of semi-cave related
23752 by: David
23753 by: Bill Bentley
23754 by: Butch Fralia
23755 by: Geary Schindel

Texas Caver Deadline - Monday May 5.
23756 by: Jill Orr
23758 by: Lyndon Tiu
23759 by: Stefan Creaser

AMCS at TSA
23757 by: Mixon Bill

Another Sort of Cave Related Current Story
23760 by: Preston Forsythe

Portable buildings free
23761 by: Gill Edigar

Re: TSA 2014 Spring Convention, General Agenda:
23762 by: Bennett Lee

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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--
---BeginMessage---
Austin cavers, the TCMA is looking for someone to haul its new trailer from 
Ediger's house to CWAN by Friday. It's heading to San Antonio afterwards, so no 
need to bring it back. Contact me offline if you have a hitch and are willing 
to help out. Thanks in advance. 

Jim 

Mobile email from my iPhone---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Hey, Ron!


Could you give me a shout offline?

I need to talk to you about purchasing a couple of cave packs or three.


Thanks,

Mark


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Mark, mind sharing any info you receive offline?

Thanks

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:59 AM,  mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:


 All,





 The subject came up this past weekend during a caving trip as to the status
 of the caves out in CaCa land.



 We would like to plan a trip out there this Fall and were wondering if the
 Forest Service, NPS, and the BLM still had Goat, Cottonwood, Black,

 Sitting Bull Falls Cave, and the McKittrick Hill caves still closed, due to
 WNS.



 If someone if the know could give me a definitive update, it would be most
 appreciated, as inquiring minds would like to know.





 Thanks in advance!





 Mark Alman












---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I was in a nursing home cafeteria today, making a 5 minute visit to an ill
cousin.

An 83 year old guy at the table who was in poor health would not shut up
and just kept rambling about whatever was on his mind.  He seemed to have
some bizarre need to share his thoughts, and there was not a soul in the
building willing to listen to him.

I was just about to leave, when he started rambling about spelunking in
Indiana caves.

I only asked him to tell me more.

He wasn't a caver, but I could tell that he could talk about caves on and
on.  He said his dad was one of the spectators at the Floyd Collins
rescue.  He said he had been spelunking about 20 times when he was a
teenager with a carbide lamp that a friend ( who he said was a real
spelunker from Bloomington ) had loaned him, but he did not consider
himself a spelunker.  He had a reliable memory of all the commercial caves
in that cave region.   But I couldn't stay.   He would probably enjoy a
video-taped interview.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
My memories of interviews with elderly people in nursing homes...consists of 
great tales of caves with entrances big enough to ride a horse and wagon full 
of Gold barsit went on for miles and connects to Carlsbad Caverns at some 
deep level... now if they could just remember where it was located?
 Lots of weekends hiking the West Texas desert on wild goose chases... 
Bill

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

I was in a nursing home cafeteria today, making a 5 minute visit to an ill 
cousin.

An 83 year old guy at the table who was in poor health would not shut up and 
just kept rambling about whatever was on his mind.  He seemed to have some 
bizarre need to share his thoughts, and there was not a soul in the building 
willing to listen to him.

I was just about to leave, when he started rambling about spelunking in 
Indiana caves.

I only asked him to tell me more.

He wasn't a caver, but I could tell that he could talk about caves on and on.  
He said his dad was one of the spectators at the Floyd Collins rescue.  He 
said he had been spelunking about 20 times when he was a teenager with a 
carbide lamp that a friend ( who he said was a real spelunker from Bloomington 
) had loaned him, but he did not consider himself a spelunker.  He had a 
reliable memory of all the commercial caves in that cave region.   But I 
couldn't stay.   He would probably enjoy a video-taped interview.

David Locklear

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I visited a cave in Oklahoma the owners called Horse Thief Cave.  Story was 

texascavers Digest 27 Apr 2014 16:15:55 -0000 Issue 1968

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 27 Apr 2014 16:15:55 - Issue 1968

Topics (messages 23728 through 23735):

Re: Mexican vigilantes search caves for cartel leader
23728 by: Logan McNatt

Arteaga, Michoac�n
23729 by: Mixon Bill
23730 by: Fofo

Party on Sunday, at Schindel's house at 4 pm
23731 by: Geary Schindel

Re: for a caver in south Dallas
23732 by: Mike Flannigan

TCMA auction
23733 by: Jim Kennedy
23734 by: Aimee Beveridge

Party in honor of Jill today (Sunday) at 4 pm at the Schindel's
23735 by: Geary Schindel

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

Jerry,  Thanks for sending that.

Bill, any info in the AMCS files on caves in that area?

Logan


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
No, Logan, AMCS (or at least I) doesn't know anything about caves near  
Arteaga, Michoacán. The caves we know about in Michoacán are farther  
north, near the Colima border. It is now possible for anyone to search  
for most AMCS information on the web:


maps of caves in Michoacán:
http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/Mich.html

indexes to Activities Newsletters 1-15 and 16-25:
http://www.mexicancaves.org/nl/1-15-index.html
http://www.mexicancaves.org/nl/16-25-index.html

paper archives
http://www.mexicancaves.org/library/archives.html

Et cetera.

I also asked the global index of everything on my Mac. Arteaga,  
Coahuila, keeps popping up, but that's pretty much it. -- Mixon



Work is the curse of the drinking class.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Thank you Bill.

I was wondering, since I haven't heard about caves in that area either.

I just checked the geologic map of Mexico and right at Artega, 
Michoacan, it's all granite, but there appears to be some limestone 
relatively close, maybe it's there that the caves are.


And maybe because of the issues in the area no cavers have checked them.

Or maybe it's like in other areas where a talus cave or shelter is the 
bottomless cave or the one where gold was hidden in the Revolution 
time and is still there, but whoever finds it has to take it ALL out at 
once, or nothing at all.


- Fofo



On 25/04/14 07:25, Mixon Bill wrote:

No, Logan, AMCS (or at least I) doesn't know anything about caves near
Arteaga, Michoac�n. The caves we know about in Michoac�n are farther
north, near the Colima border. It is now possible for anyone to search
for most AMCS information on the web:

maps of caves in Michoac�n:
http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/Mich.html

indexes to Activities Newsletters 1-15 and 16-25:
http://www.mexicancaves.org/nl/1-15-index.html
http://www.mexicancaves.org/nl/16-25-index.html

paper archives
http://www.mexicancaves.org/library/archives.html

Et cetera.

I also asked the global index of everything on my Mac. Arteaga,
Coahuila, keeps popping up, but that's pretty much it. -- Mixon


Work is the curse of the drinking class.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Jill Orr is leaving town for a few months and heading to Europe. We're going to 
throw a party in her honor at our house on Sunday around 4 pm and dinner around 
5. We'll have the grill going and will be providing burgers and dogs. This will 
be a pot luck so if folks want to bring a dish, it would be appreciated. we'll 
have a cooler with some adult refreshments. Dress if formal unless you want to 
be comfortable, than wear whatever you want.


Can someone repost this to the Bexar Grotto email list. Everyone is welcome.


Address is 11310 Whisper Dawn, San Antonio, Texas 78230. Home phone is 
210.479.2151.


Thanks,


Geary
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


A map of that area:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.71593,+-96.88913+%28Coordinates%29iwloc=Ahl=en
Go to satellite view (lower left).

That creek has almost been obliterated by development,
but that small section you pinpoint still exists.


Mike


On 4/22/2014 12:33 PM, texascavers-digest-h...@texascavers.com wrote:

When I 

texascavers Digest 28 Apr 2014 03:58:00 -0000 Issue 1969

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 28 Apr 2014 03:58:00 - Issue 1969

Topics (messages 23736 through 23740):

Re: TSA Speaker Schedule
23736 by: Mallory Mayeux

Re: Party in honor of Jill today (Sunday) at 4 pm at the Schindel's
23737 by: caverarch

TSA Spring Convention, General Agenda
23738 by: caverarch

Registration deadline: International Workshop on Ice Caves
23739 by: George Veni

Colorado Bend Cave Guide Training
23740 by: Kris Pena

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--
---BeginMessage---
Good morning cavers!

 I hope you're getting all your weekend chores done around the house for
this weekend and next, because next weekend is the TSA Spring Convention
and I hope to see all of you there!

The convention begins Friday evening, May 2 at Cave without a Name in
Boerne and ends on Sunday, May 4. The informational talks are held INSIDE
the cave on May 3. The lineup is awesome and listed below.


9 AM
Bill Steele
2014 Huautla Expedition

Bill spent for the month of April in Huautla, and will be presenting their
discoveries and achievements. Cavers from five countries (USA, Canada,
Mexico, Australia, Romania), explored the cave, carried The Explorers Club
flag, and were an official project of the NSS.


9:35 AM
Ernie Garza and Gill Edigar
Kiwi Sink

An introduction to the discovery and subsequent digging into Kiwi Sink.
First, we used a loader/backhoe until it got too deep, then used hand
digging to fill up barrels to be winched up. We found some real cave as a
result, the cave dig continues.



10 AM
Peter Sprouse
The Jaguar Paw System: a new mega-maze in Quintana Roo

Cavers of the Paamul Grotto cut a jungle trail through a long segment of
collapsed cave passage. With over 15 km mapped so far in multiple segments,
the full extent of this system won't be known for years.

BREAK


10:40 AM
Ron Ralph
The Texas Speleological Survey: Over 50 Years


11 AM
Ellie Watson, Dr. Jean Krecja, and Joe Furman
See My Shovel Tank Haul Trifecta Fest

A video presentation about the ongoing cave diving efforts in See My Shovel
Cave (CM Cave). Cavers gathered for 3 weekends in a row to haul dive gear
for divers Dr. Jean Krecja and James Brown.



11:45-1:30 GROUP PHOTO AND LUNCH BREAK


1:30 PM

Jim Kennedy
Recent LIDAR Mapping of Some Major Texas Bat Caves

The latest accomplishment in our continued research into the large Mexican
free-tailed bat roosts of central Texas has been the detailed LIDAR mapping
spearheaded by Dr. Nicolay Hristov of the Center for Design Innovation at
Winston-Salem State University.  To date, Bracken Bat Cave, James River Bat
Cave, Davis Blowout Cave, and Ney Cave are mostly completed.  We’ll show
samples of the scans, compare them to the old-school paper maps, and
discuss the conservation and research potential of this project, including
our future plans.


1:50 PM
Bill Steele
Golondrinas climbing video

A 10 minute video done by Italian cavers about a direct aid climb out of
Sotano de las Golondrinas, up the wall, from the floor to the entrance and
out—an amazing feat. This will be the first showing of this video in the US!


2:05 PM
Matt Turner
My First Year of Cave Diving
A talk about what it's like to go from caving to cave diving and things
Matt has learned along the way.


2:30
K. Lindsay Eaves
Caving Contributions to the 'Cradle of Humankind.'
A brief overview and discussion of the contributions of caving to the
discovery of early hominid fossils within the Rising Star Cave System
within South Africa's Cradle of Humankind. This is part of an ongoing
excavation deep within the system that began in November 2013 through the
joint auspices of the University of the Witwatersrand and National
Geographic Society.


BREAK


3:00 PM
Chuck Noe
Goodenough - Exploring the Depths of a Prolific Texas Spring
Hear a brief history of this underwater tributary of the Rio Grande, and
experience the tale of its record-setting deep exploration by the GSEP
(Goodenough Springs Exploration Project). Learn about the GSEP's ongoing
research project to identify the origin of Goodenough's water source. Dive
team members will be available after the presentation to answer questions
and provide further information.



3:30 PM
Monica Ponce
Bustamante cave exploration ACEAC2014
A talk about the results of exploration in Bustamante cave. With 9 trips in
one year, exploration of the cave is slow but very detail oriented. The
cavers have discovered many small entrance pits under the floor of the
paso de la muerte area. They are close to finishing planned exploration
but need help to do the survey, since the Tourism Secretary of Nuevo Leon
has new projects to do inside of this cave.


Again, this 

texascavers Digest 22 Apr 2014 17:33:16 -0000 Issue 1966

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 22 Apr 2014 17:33:16 - Issue 1966

Topics (messages 23712 through 23716):

for a caver in south Dallas
23712 by: David

TCMA thanks volunteers
23713 by: Ron Ralph

Important caves to purchase
23714 by: David

Honey Creek Cave Work Day, Saturday, June 21st
23715 by: ellie watson

Re: caves to purchase
23716 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
When I was a young kid in 1974, I found a limestone boulder in a creekbed
in south Dallas, that had an interesting fossil of a fish in it.The fish
was about 2 feet long, and the boulder about 4 feet in diameter,   It resembled
a barracuda.

The coordinates of the boulder are:

32.715929, -96.889127

I haven't seen it in 40 years, and would bet it has been vandalized.

It might have been my vivid imagination as a kid, but I have always
wanted to return there and look for it.

So if you are near there and bored, and looking for something to do, here is
your chance.

It was next to that creekbed, that I did my first sewerlunking.

David Locklear


P.S.

I was in a truck stop the other day and found some good caving gloves
made by Caterpillar.The were $ 10 and fit great on x-large hands.   These
are the type that are polyester and stretch and have a thick rubber coating on
the palm and fingers.

http://images.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Cat-Gloves-CAT017416L-rw-268582-373117.jpg

They seemed to be a better quality than the kind you get at Harbor
Freight Tools or
Northern Tool Company.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Cavers,



I would personally like to thank the 17 volunteers who came out to help clear 
dead trees and spread mulch at the Texas Cave Management Association’s Ezells 
Cave Preserve in San Marcos this past Saturday, 19 April 2014.  Your five hours 
of labor made a big difference in combating erosion and in cleaning up the face 
of our property.



Volunteers included Laura Battle, Rob Bisset, Gill Ediger, Andy Grubbs, Liz 
Herron, Aubri Jenson, Jim Kennedy, Joy Levy, Vivian Loftin, Ryan Monjaras, 
David Moore, Ron Ralph, John Schneider, Pete Strickland, Matt Turner, Diane 
Young and Sam Young. We also send a huge thanks to Mike DeBow, our neighbor to 
the west, who cleaned up our remaining street mess (leaves and wood dust) after 
we left. We could not have made such progress without all of you.



In preparation for installation of a new bat-friendly cave gate, a small crew 
including Jim Kennedy, Matt Turner, David Moore, and Laura Battle worked on the 
entrance with mattock, shovel, and jackhammer.  Soil and loose rocks were 
cleared down to bedrock to prepare the new gate footprint, and large, loose 
boulders were removed from the construction area.  They also began removing the 
existing concrete slab blocking part of the cave entrance.



Another major accomplishment was the removal of dead trees at the top of the 
hill.  Jim and Pete worked the chainsaws, while many others dragged the 
branches and logs to the street where Ediger fed the residue to a wood chipper. 
 A special thanks goes to Terry Raines for the use of his machine.



The huge volunteer effort also completed the spreading of two dump truck loads 
of mulch along the front edge of the property and down the path to the cave, to 
serve as erosion control.  What seemed like several hundred wheelbarrow loads 
were placed, along with waterbars to slow runoff, all the way to the gate at 
the cave perimeter fence.  Again, thanks to Terry Raines for delivering the 
mulch.



Our hearty thanks go out to Vivian Loftin and Ryan Monjaras for initial work 
clearing bamboo at the downhill end of the property.  The grubbing and hand 
clearing gave us an idea of how much more work there is to do (lots!).  There 
are many more Ligustrum (privet), Chinese tallow, Chinaberry, and Agave on the 
lower slopes which remain and must one day be removed.  So please stand by for 
another call for volunteers this fall.



The TCMA cannot manage our properties without the on-going assistance of 
volunteers in preserves.  Keeping up our cave resources is an ongoing chore, 
and one that the TCMA can only applaud as a job well done.



We are seeking additional funds for the new bat gate on the cave, in order to 
restore the impacted cave ecosystem.  If you would like to make a donation, 
please contact the Preserve Manager.



Ron Ralph, Manager

Ezells Cave Preserve
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Here is an opportunity for a caver with real estate knowledge, and
some financial resources to make a signficant impact on caving in
Texas, or just own some of my
favorite caves.


There are 2 significant caves 

texascavers Digest 17 Apr 2014 18:09:04 -0000 Issue 1964

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 17 Apr 2014 18:09:04 - Issue 1964

Topics (messages 23696 through 23703):

Cool underwater cave pix
23696 by: Louise Power
23698 by: Gill Edigar

Re: News
23697 by: keith heuss

Looking for contacts in Croatia and neighboring countries
23699 by: Thomas Sitch
23700 by: George Veni
23701 by: Thomas Sitch

George
23702 by: Sheryl Rieck

underwater archaeology in Quintana Roo
23703 by: Mixon Bill

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/life-unleashed/amazing-underwater-caves-where-you-can-swim-and-scuba-dive
 ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Rio Secreto and Dos Ojos, partially underwater and dry caves, are within
the scope of our study in Quintana Roo where, over a 2-week expedition in
March  April, over 14 kilometers were surveyed in one extended cave
system--and still going. Watch for updates.


On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:


 http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/life-unleashed/amazing-underwater-caves-where-you-can-swim-and-scuba-dive

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hi!   

News:  http://ciadasespumas.net/be/news.php

 

keith heuss

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hello Cavers!

I'm planning a trip to the shining Adriatic Sea for June, and was hoping to 
link up with some cavers in the Balkans.  I know a bunch of y'all have done 
expeditions out in that part of the world, and was wondering if you could 
connect me with any cavers in that region?

Best Regards,

~~Thomas---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Here is a simple rule-of-thumb if you're planning to go caving outside of the 
US and are looking for contacts. Go to http://uis.caves.org/. The UIS 
(International Union of Speleology) is made of about 60 member countries, 
including Croatia. Contacts for those countries as well as their national and 
regional organizations are listed.

George


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:dreadfl...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:36 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Looking for contacts in Croatia and neighboring countries

Hello Cavers!

I'm planning a trip to the shining Adriatic Sea for June, and was hoping to 
link up with some cavers in the Balkans.  I know a bunch of y'all have done 
expeditions out in that part of the world, and was wondering if you could 
connect me with any cavers in that region?

Best Regards,

~~Thomas
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hi George,

Thanks for the link.  I definitely prefer a personal reference if I can get 
one.  Crash Kennedy says that you're a good guy and doesn't steal the 
silverware or Peter Sprouse says you can dig in the jungle all afternoon with 
only your hands and boots, is always preferable to I hear there's an American 
that wants to come to my country, but I'll take what I can get.

I was given a grotto contact list for Hawaii last year, and I had literally 
*zero* cavers write me back.  I suspect a personal introduction would have done 
me better :)

Best Regards,

~~Thomas
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:45 PM, George Veni gv...@nckri.org wrote:
 
Here is a simple rule-of-thumb if you’re planning to go caving outside of the 
US and are looking for contacts. Go to http://uis.caves.org/. The UIS 
(International Union of Speleology) is made of about 60 member countries, 
including Croatia. Contacts for those countries as well as their national and 
regional organizations are listed.
 
George
 

George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org
 
From:Thomas Sitch [mailto:dreadfl...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:36 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Looking for contacts in Croatia and neighboring countries
 
Hello Cavers!
 
I'm planning a trip to the shining Adriatic Sea for June, and was hoping to 
link up with some cavers in the Balkans.  I know a bunch of y'all have done 
expeditions out in that part of the world, and was wondering if you could 
connect me with any cavers in that region?
 
Best Regards,

~~Thomas---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Checking to see if George has been added to the lists. 

Sheryl

Sent from my iPhone. 

texascavers Digest 15 Apr 2014 16:18:36 -0000 Issue 1963

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 15 Apr 2014 16:18:36 - Issue 1963

Topics (messages 23682 through 23695):

Re: [SWR] My late night thoughts during insomnia
23682 by: Lee H. Skinner

thoughts during insomnia
23683 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

UIS Conservation Prize
23684 by: George Veni

Ezells Cleanup Date
23685 by: Robert B
23686 by: Ron Ralph

USS and UT Grotto Meeting April 2nd
23687 by: Andrea Croskrey
23688 by: Andrea Croskrey

Re: [SWR] Big Room
23689 by: Pete Lindsley
23690 by: Lee H. Skinner

The Dark and Dangerous World of Extreme Cavers
23691 by: Preston Forsythe
23692 by: Preston Forsythe

New Yorker article
23693 by: Mixon Bill

Central Texas endangered inverts
23694 by: Mixon Bill
23695 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---

Thanks, John.

Yes, it's probably a side effect of my DNA.

Regards,
Lee


Lee,

You have a creative, but twisted mind!

Regards,

John



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
More likely it's the heavy metals from all those cans of Skinner brand 
spaghetti - 

DirtDoc 

- Original Message -

From: Lee H. Skinner skin...@thuntek.net 
To: s...@caver.net, John Corcoran john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com, texascavers 
list texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 2:59:13 PM 
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] My late night thoughts during insomnia 

Thanks, John. 

Yes, it's probably a side effect of my DNA. 

Regards, 
Lee 




Lee, 



You have a creative, but twisted mind! 



Regards, 



John 



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Dear Friends,

Below is a message about the international cave conservation award. Note that 
this has nothing to do with the country of France. France is the given name 
of some people in Slovenia, and in this case for the caver who whom this award 
is named after.

Please feel free to share this message.

Thanks,

George

--

The France HABE Prize is awarded by the Department of Karst and Cave Protection 
of the International Union of Speleology (UIS). Its purpose is to promote the 
protection of karst and caves for generations to come. Their natural legacy are 
proven sources of increasingly rich information about the history of our planet 
and humanity, enabling people to act more thoughtfully, efficiently, and 
sustainably for the future of our environment.

Nominations must received by May 20 2014.

For more information:

http://test3.brlog.net/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=83Itemid=98



George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Would somebody be so kind as to respond to this post with the date for the
next Ezells Cleanup.

I suspect the date may have just past.
Looking in San Marcos area for some volunteer activities for my Scouts.

Thanks, Rob
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Rob,

Nope, the work day is next Saturday, April 19.  I hope Scouts and other groups 
can come out.  We will have two dumptrucks of mulch to spread so will need 
wheelbarrows, shovels and rakes.  Gloves and boots are recommended.

Ron



Cavers, we need your help!  The Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) will 
be sponsoring a work day to spruce up the Ezells Cave Preserve in Hays County.  
The date is Saturday 19 April 2014 beginning at 10:00 am and ending about 2:00 
in the afternoon.  Meet at the 1500 block of Brown Street, San Marcos.  Cell 
number for the day: 512-797-3817 (Ron Ralph).



We plan to cut dead wood, remove limbs, cut weeds, and just generally make the 
property more attractive.  Ediger is bringing his chipper to mulch the waste 
material.  We will be concentrating on the front part of the property but will 
work inside the fence to prepare the ground for a new bat-friendly cave gate.  
We will also be spreading mulch for erosion control on the trail down to the 
fence gate.



We need people, saws, loppers, sling blades, weed eaters, and maybe even 
someone with a trailer willing to carry all the debris to the landfill.  And if 
you have a wheelbarrow, bring that along with a shovel and a rake.  Bring 
gloves, boots and your own drinks and snacks for the work, but TCMA will treat 
all volunteers to pizza and drinks afterward.  We will have water and litter 
bags for your use.



If anyone wishes to enter the cave after the work is completed, the Preserve 
Manager has agreed to that.  

texascavers Digest 13 Apr 2014 17:10:14 -0000 Issue 1962

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 13 Apr 2014 17:10:14 - Issue 1962

Topics (messages 23676 through 23681):

Re: [NSSwest] Participate in a cave conservation research study
23676 by: Matt Bowers

Texas Caver
23677 by: Jill Orr
23678 by: Julia Germany

My late night thoughts during insomnia
23679 by: Lee H. Skinner

Big Room
23680 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Re: [SWR] My late night thoughts during insomnia
23681 by: Lee H. Skinner

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Cavers -
 
Speleo-climatology is a growing area of scientific research. Sarah Truebe is
working to establish a set of best practices for future research projects.
If you have a chance, please consider sharing your opinions on the subject.
Thanks!
 
Please feel free to share this with your grottos.
 
Matt

  _  

From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Sarah Truebe
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 9:15 PM
To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NSSwest] Participate in a cave conservation research study! Win a
$100 gift card! [1 Attachment]


[Attachment(s)   from Sarah Truebe included below] 


Hello Western Region! 
I am a new transplant to California (moved from AZ in Jan), but I'm hoping
all of my new neighbors will do me the honor of taking this survey as a part
of my PhD research. I am working on my PhD in geosciences, and one of my
studies is to evaluate the sampling of speleothems for past climate
(paleoclimate) research. I am asking cavers, cave owners, cave managers,
cave scientists, and anyone else that enjoys, explores, or studies caves to
take the survey for my research (more details below the dotted line). 

Please take this survey and forward it widely amongst your caving contacts!
Taking the survey allows you to enter into a drawing for one of seven $100
gift cards to Amazon or a cave gear website of your choice. 

The link is here:
https://uarizona.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_6llZGoHoNyBTCsJ

The survey will remain open until April 30, 2014. 

More details are below. Many thanks in advance for your time!
Sincerely,
Sarah
NSS # 61563

=
Speleothem Sampling Methods Survey
https://uarizona.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_6llZGoHoNyBTCsJ





Who should take this survey?

This survey is for cavers, cave owners, cave managers, and cave scientists
other than paleoclimate scientists to gather a variety of opinions about
paleoclimate research and how it impacts caves. Paleoclimate scientists were
surveyed earlier to produce a list of current research practices, which was
used to build this survey. 

 

What is this survey about?

Paleoclimate--or past climate--research uses the chemistry and mineralogy of
speleothems to reconstruct past climate, temperature, rainfall, etc.
Stalagmites are one of the best sources of this information, especially
where other sources (like lakes, trees, ice cores, and ocean sediments)
don't exist. 

 

Sampling stalagmites for this type of research requires looking along the
growth axis, down the center of the speleothem. Generally, this means the
stalagmite must be sliced open and measured down the middle. Many scientists
are trying to minimize their impact on caves while doing this sampling, but
as a community of cave stakeholders, we can do better. 

 

Taking this survey is the first step to initiating a community-wide
discussion between paleoclimate scientists and other cave stakeholders,
including recreational cavers, cave managers, cave owners, and other cave
scientists. The goal of this discussion is to emerge with a set of current
best practice guidelines for scientists and managers to be able to pursue
valuable past climate information while conserving valuable cave resources.


Your participation in this survey is voluntary. You may stop at any time.

 

This survey is anonymous. 

 

There are no risks to participating in this survey.

 

The survey will take from 30-60 minutes.

 

At the end, you will be asked if you would like to enter your contact
information for a drawing for one of seven $100 gift cards to a vendor of
your choice. Your contact information is stored separately from your survey
responses.

 

For ease of use, please take the survey on a computer or tablet rather than
a mobile phone. 

 

Thank you for your participation in this survey. If you have any questions
during the survey, or have any problems taking the survey, please feel free
to contact researcher Sarah Truebe (stru...@arizona.edu).




Take the survey here:
https://uarizona.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_6llZGoHoNyBTCsJ


Thank you for your time and participation!


-- 

Sarah A Truebe
PhD Candidate

texascavers Digest 11 Apr 2014 14:55:39 -0000 Issue 1961

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 11 Apr 2014 14:55:39 - Issue 1961

Topics (messages 23670 through 23675):

DFW cavers! Anyone up for a beer tomorrow?
23670 by: Fofo

Vulcanospeleology Symposum
23671 by: Mixon Bill

Visual Arts Salon at TSA Spring Convention
23672 by: R D Milhollin

Papers for International Workshop on Ice Caves due in 4 days!
23673 by: George Veni

Colorado Bend Project This Weekend!
23674 by: Kris Pena

Re: Participate in a cave conservation research study! Win a $100 gift card!
23675 by: Mixon Bill

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Hi! 

Well, I'll be in your beautiful city tomorrow, Thursday, and if anyone would 
like to meet for a beer in the evening let me know, you can reply to my email 
or call/text at 831-776-5385. 

Unfortunately I'm in town just for Thursday, leaving very early on Friday. 

Hope to see some of you tomorrow!

- Fofo 


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I know several Texas cavers attended this thing. Perhaps they and you  
will enjoy this summary of the symposium by Tim Francis. -- Mixon


The 16th Volcanospeleology Symposium of the UIS Commission on  
Volcanic Caves was held in The Galápagos Islands, 15th to 22nd March  
2014 hosted by Dr. Theofilos Toulkeridis. This year’s conference was  
the most heavily attended conference in the Commissions history with  
around 80 delegates attending. The dramatic volcanic landscape of  
the islands combined with its unique fauna and flora, famously  
highlighted in Charles Darwin’s 1859 book “On the Origin of  
Species”, proved to be an irresistible draw. The Symposium, based at  
the Conference Centre of the Galápagos Islands National Park’s  
Service in Puerto Ayora, delivered a rich lecture programme and  
poster submissions. This formal programme was combined with field  
trips to a mix of above and below ground sites on Santa Cruz and  
Isabela Islands. This catered for the various interests of the  
delegates such as spelaeology, volcanology, mineralogy, entomology  
and palaeontology. Highlights included descending into the interior  
of an extinct volcano, Triple Volcáno; traversing the extensive lava  
fields of the Sierra Negra shield volcano; and visits to the lava  
tube complexes on Santa Cruz island. Post conference trips included  
both the touristic and the speleological, the latter being a tour of  
numerous limestone caves situated in the Amazonian lowlands of  
Ecuador.


If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Fellow cavers, the caving season has arrived. There are many trips happening in 
and around Texas, so here is a little extra incentive to take photos, draft 
maps and express artistically your impressions of the caves your are exploring:

This year at the TSA Spring Convention we will combine the map salon and photo 
salons, holdovers from previous
years, and introduce a fine arts category as well. The salons will be housed in 
a tent sited near the convention pavilion at Cave Without A Name, this year 
featuring 120v electricity. In
order to assure the security of entries and any art exhibited but not submitted
for judging the salon will be only open on Saturday, with setup around 12:00
noon and judging about 5:00 PM, coordinated with the speaker schedule. During
that time there will be a docent present in the tent at all times. Exhibitors 
of maps and wall art are asked to submit their pieces matted, and we will place 
these onto heavy cardboard backings that will be suspended from the horizontal 
tent supports.In addition
to the wall art, there will be a table provided for art items like sculpture,
and any other items that don't fit usual classification. One of the goals of
this competition is to encourage Texas cavers to compete at higher
levels of competition, including the annual NSS Convention visual arts salons.
This year the TCMA will sponsor an award category for best work featuring a
conservancy cave. It is hoped that this will help raise the work of the TCMA in
the consciousness of Texas cavers, and to identify innovative artwork that
could be used by the TCMA in various efforts to accomplish its mission.
 
There will be three basic
categories to be judged: Photography, Fine Art, and Cartography. 
 
Ribbons will be awarded for
categories with more than one entry. 

Judges will be needed for this event; professional and 

texascavers Digest 9 Apr 2014 19:41:44 -0000 Issue 1960

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Apr 2014 19:41:44 - Issue 1960

Topics (messages 23665 through 23669):

Banff Film Festival World Tour this Sat  Sun in Austin
23665 by: Logan McNatt

Re: [greater_houston_grotto] Grotto Dinner and Meeting Tonight
23666 by: Mallory Mayeux
23668 by: Julie Henry

Re: TSA Informational Speakers Requested!
23667 by: Mallory Mayeux

Vendor reminder: TSA Spring Convention, May 2-4, Boerne, TX
23669 by: caverarch

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

The annual Banff Film Festival is at the Paramount Theater in Austin this Sat 
12th 8:00 PM and Sun 13th 6:00 PM.
Tickets about $23 each night, available online or at Whole Earth Provision Co.
General seating and it sold out last year so best to get them now and be there 
when the doors open 1.5 hours early.
The best of the best outdoor adventure short films from around the world.
As many as 50 current and old-timer cavers attend every year; that's a pretty 
good recommendation.

Check out the trailers for Radical Reels (Sat) and World Tour (Sun) at 
http://www.banffcentre.ca/mountainfestival/worldtour/films/
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hello Texas Cavers!

This month, the Greater Houston Grotto meeting is meeting a week early
because of the Banff Film Festival. (We typically meet on the 3rd Tuesday
of every month, but that night Banff is coming to Houston so we're meeting
today instead.)

So, TONIGHT:

6pm for dinner at Casa de Leon, 9217 Long Point Rd, Houston, TX 77055.

7:30pm meeting at Texas Rock Gym. 1526 Campbell Rd, Houston, TX 77055.
Tonight, we will watch a short preview of the NSS convention this summer,
Peter Drushke will give a presentation about a caving trip he took to
Arizona earlier this year, and Ray Hertel will share some pictures of our
last beginner's trip to Whirlpool.

Everyone is invited! Please attend if you're in the Houston area!
-- 
Lyndon Tiu  Mallory Mayeux

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__,_._,___
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hello!

So this will be my first greater houston grotto meeting and I cant wait to
meet everyone. I come from Tennessee and am a TAG caver, but I moved to TX
a year ago. Been living in Houston for 6 months now and I have been
promising to myself since the beginning of the year that I would meet TX
cavers. So I cant wait to meet all of you tonight

-Julie Henry


On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Mallory Mayeux mmay...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Texas Cavers!

 This month, the Greater Houston Grotto meeting is meeting a week early
 because of the Banff Film Festival. (We typically meet on the 3rd Tuesday
 of every month, but that night Banff is coming to Houston so we're meeting
 today instead.)

 So, TONIGHT:

 6pm for dinner at Casa de Leon, 9217 Long Point Rd, Houston, TX 77055.

 7:30pm meeting at Texas Rock Gym. 1526 Campbell Rd, 

texascavers Digest 7 Apr 2014 17:50:04 -0000 Issue 1959

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 7 Apr 2014 17:50:04 - Issue 1959

Topics (messages 23663 through 23664):

March CBSP Project Trip Report
23663 by: Kris Pena

Re: VRA Veteran Job Opportunity - Please Share  Forward with Veterans
23664 by: Louise Power

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Project Dates: March 8-9, 2014

Volunteers: Will Quast, Kris Peña, Heather Tuček, Jeff Nichols, Liz Herren,
Carson Fuls, Tara Rice, Taylor George, Daniel Varedo, Eneida Chesnut

Total Hours: 60 hrs work time + 84 hrs drive time = 144 volunteer hours

Summary:

We had enough volunteers this month to fill up two survey teams and, since
we had several new cavers eager to learn survey, it was a great opportunity
to pick some cavers for training. Both teams headed out to neighboring
caves Happy Annie (no SAB number yet) and Snow Hole (SAB 595) in Lower Gold
Mine. Heather led her team to survey Snow Hole Cave. That survey is
complete as it currently stands, but there is potential for more digging.
The other team began the survey of Happy Annie Cave. They rappelled into
the lower room and set a total of 7 stations with passage left to survey.

Full Trip Reports:

Team 1:

 Jeff Nichols, Elizabeth Herren, Kris Peña, William Quast, Taylor George

Time: 10:00am - 4:00pm  30 hours

Data: Will Quast’s field book

Objectives: To survey newly found cave, teach azimuth and compass to new
grotto members and do vertical ropes in cave

Report: Went to Happy Annie (no SAB number yet). Got down on ropes. Tight
squeeze. Surveyed 7 stations. Longest was 7 meters. Found at least two
other leads to be surveyed later. One tunnel, one pit. Dug out upper
passage (to survey later) past B7, last station. Found animal bones,
troglophiles (crickets, millipedes, spiders, and springtails). Air and cold
blowing from dug out upper passage. Minor incident. One caver was pulled
from above when briefly stuck on final rope.

Team 2:

 Carson Fuls, Tara Rice, Daniel Varnado, Enenda Chesnut, Heather Tuček

Time: 10:00am - 4:00pm  30 hours

Data: Field book in red pouch #1

Objectives: Survey of Snow Hole Cave (SAB 595)

Report: Surveyed the cave at a distance of 8 meters. Shifted some breakdown
in the back pit of the cave to try to open up a further passage. Made a
hole wide enough for one leg, but could not feel bottom. Cave was trending
westward towards another karst feature and caves.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Any vets want to work in Oregon??? 

Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 10:11:34 -0700
Subject: Fwd: VRA Veteran Job Opportunity - Please Share  Forward with Veterans
From: cpo...@blm.gov
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com







-- Forwarded message --
From: Goff, Holly hg...@blm.gov
Date: Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: VRA Veteran Job Opportunity - Please Share  Forward with Veterans
To: BLM_OR_MD_ALL blm_or_md_...@blm.gov
Cc: Zirkle, Joshua E. (White City/VISN20/) joshua.zir...@va.gov



Here are the 4th and Final Opportunity (For Now) for Veterans that may Qualify 
under VRA or 30% Service Connected Disabilities.  Please Share and Forward with 
all of your contacts. 


RECREATION TECH (River Patrol) for the Grants Pass Resource Area, that is for a 
Temporary Seasonal Position.  Job Listing ID is 1114099..


http://www.emp.state.or.us/jobs/index.cfm?location_content=jobdisplay.cfmord=1114099system=WIOOlang=Etype=Nagency_menu=Ncalling_pg=osearch
 







So in summary we need everyone to Please Share and Forward this to as many 
People as Possible.  The Final Application Deadline for all of the Jobs is 
April 30th.  All resumes  documents are to be mailed to the Medford Address of 
3040 Biddle Road, Medford, OR 97504 and need to be Post Marked no Later that 
April 30th.



Here is a Summary of all 4 Open Position:


Engineering Aid GS-0802:   Job Listing # 1112418   2 Positions to fill  
 Temp(1039) Seasonal

Public Contact Rep GS-0962:   Job Listing # 1112436   2 Positions to fill   
TERM
Recreation Technician GS-0189:   Job Listing # 1112454   2 Positions to 
fill   Temp(1039) Seasonal
Rec Tech (River Patrol) GS-0189:   Job Listing # 1112454   2 Positions to 
fill   Temp(1039) Seasonal

We appreciate everyone's help in getting this information out.




Holly A. Goff
Management Support Specialist
(Human Resources Liaison)

541-618-2366 Medford Office
541-207-6545 Government Cell
541-734-4562 Department Fax 


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Goff, Holly hg...@blm.gov wrote:







Here are the rest of the Opportunities for Veterans that may Qualify under VRA 
or 30% Service Connected Disabilities.  Please Share and Forward with all of 
your contacts.



PUBLIC CONTACT 

texascavers Digest 4 Apr 2014 04:43:23 -0000 Issue 1958

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Apr 2014 04:43:23 - Issue 1958

Topics (messages 23659 through 23662):

TSA 2014 Spring Convention Beer News!
23659 by: caverarch
23660 by: Bill Steele

Cave Clean Up Opportunity Along Onion Creek, Austin
23661 by: Andrea Croskrey

February CBSP Project Trip Report
23662 by: Kris Pena

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
A key piece of TSA 2014 Spring Convention news: Shiner Beer will again be 
graciously providing four kegs of their finest at no charge for our enjoyment 
during the convention. Contact me if you are willing to pick up the beer at the 
Shiner Brewery on Friday and return the empty (naturally) kegs on Sunday. Kudos 
to Bill Steele for again arranging this donation.


Roger G. Moore








---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
My pleasure. Anything for my caving family.

Bill Steele 
Sent from Huautla de Jiminez, Oaxaca. 
Mexico

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 3, 2014, at 9:42 AM, caverarch cavera...@aol.com wrote:

 A key piece of TSA 2014 Spring Convention news: Shiner Beer will again be 
 graciously providing four kegs of their finest at no charge for our enjoyment 
 during the convention. Contact me if you are willing to pick up the beer at 
 the Shiner Brewery on Friday and return the empty (naturally) kegs on Sunday. 
 Kudos to Bill Steele for again arranging this donation.
 
 Roger G. Moore
 
 
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
We got the following email from the City of Austin:

Hi, all:
 Kevin Thuesen has a great project on the WQPL and we would really
 appreciate some help with it.


 There are a series of 5 small, gated caves along Onion Creek that were
 filled with debris after the Halloween flooding last year.


 We are looking for a group of 10-15 experienced cavers to go in and clear
 out these caves.  Depending on interest and skill level of participants,
 there is a possibility of exploring one of the larger caves after the
 workday.

 From looking at your calendar on-line, it seems like the weekend of April
 26 may be a good time to schedule this.  While we would prefer a 
 Saturdayworkday, our priority is working with you and we are definitely 
 available on
 Sunday the 27th if that works better for your group.


 While we would all work together on this workday, there is a possibility
 of on-going volunteer activity with smaller groups if any of your folks
 would like to take that on.  Just let me know.


 Kevin is interested in coming in to speak to the Grotto at your April 
 16thmeeting.  He would like 10 minutes:  5 minutes to talk about the upcoming
 project and 5 minutes to show off some of the awesome work that you all did
 last year on the WQPL.


 Let me know how this sounds.


 We are excited about this good weather and excited to work with you again
 this year.

 Thanks!!

 -Louise



 *Louise Liller*

 Volunteer Coordinator

 City of Austin-Austin Water Utility

 Wildland Conservation Division

 louise.lil...@austintexas.gov

 512-972-1682

 Division 
 Websitehttp://www.austintexas.gov/department/wildland-conservation-division
 On-Line Registration 
 Calendarhttp://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/wildland/onlineregistration/ecowebevents.cfm


If you can volunteer to do this cave clean up for the city April 26th,
please register online at this website:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/wildland/onlineregistration/ecowebevents.cfm

Kevin is coming to the next UT Grotto meeting, April 16, to do a short
presentation if you would like to talk to him in person.

Cavingly,
Andrea
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Project Dates: February 8-9, 2014

Volunteers: Dale Barnard, Andy Zenker, Mimi Alexander, Fernando Hernandez,
Leah Woods, Dave Beachum, Kyle Leonard, Amy Campbell, Will Farmer, Maddie
Harmon, Grace Hixson, Jim Kennedy, Rachel Reddig, Eric Puga, Matt Carlin,
Yvonne Reyes, Haley Nixon, Weston Green, Adam Kier, Rishi Patel, James
Cally, Brad Nash, Liz Trapp

Total Hours: 228.75 hrs work time + 161 hrs drive time = 389.75 volunteer
hours

Summary:

The February trip was graced with the presence of no fewer than 19 members
of the Aggie Speleological Society.  The ASS cavers were tasked with
heading across the river in search of caves around *Three Skylight Cave
(LAM 064)*. Meanwhile, Dale took Mimi and Andy back to *Grand Cedar Cave
(SAB 292)* to add detail to the old survey. He wrapped up that survey and
plans to return for one more trip to photograph the extensive formations in
this cave. Jim took two of the ASS members, Rachel and Eric, to scope out
some old KFA points and clean up the data. They identified some promising
leads, cleaned up some less promising ones, and discovered one new 

texascavers Digest 3 Apr 2014 03:23:36 -0000 Issue 1957

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 3 Apr 2014 03:23:36 - Issue 1957

Topics (messages 23645 through 23658):

drones
23645 by: Mixon Bill
23647 by: Louise Power

Re: Cave Entrance Photography with a Drone
23646 by: Don Arburn
23648 by: Lotus
23649 by: Albach
23650 by: Pete Lindsley
23651 by: Greg Passmore
23652 by: Gary Moss

legally flying drones
23653 by: Mixon Bill

Re: Rolling Oaks Preserve Work Day THANKS!
23654 by: ellie watson

UT Grotto Meeting April 2nd
23655 by: Andrea Croskrey

Paper deadline approaching: International Workshop on Ice Caves
23656 by: George Veni

Austin area housing
23657 by: Terry Holsinger

Karst Field Studies Course Announcement Summer 2014
23658 by: George Veni

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
That company that sells gizmos in the malls, I forget the name, has a  
drone quadracopter including a video camera that sells for $199, I  
think. You control it from an iPad or iPhone. No doubt limited range  
and endurance, but cheap enough to try out. Problem in a cave would be  
lighting for the camera, I imagine. That would also apply to more  
expensive versions of the same sort of thing; at best an added light  
would reduce the endurance.

--Mixon

If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The other problem I see right off the bat is not having sufficient control to 
keep from running into delicate formations. On the plus side is having the 
ability to see if hard-to-navigate new passages go anywhere.

 

--Louise
 

 From: bmixon...@austin.rr.com
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:23:38 -0500
 Subject: [Texascavers] drones
 
 That company that sells gizmos in the malls, I forget the name, has a 
 drone quadracopter including a video camera that sells for $199, I 
 think. You control it from an iPad or iPhone. No doubt limited range 
 and endurance, but cheap enough to try out. Problem in a cave would be 
 lighting for the camera, I imagine. That would also apply to more 
 expensive versions of the same sort of thing; at best an added light 
 would reduce the endurance.
 --Mixon
 
 If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
 
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Try it.

Sent cellularly.
-Don

 On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com wrote:
 
 It is easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission ;-)
  
 From: Arburn Don [mailto:donarb...@me.com] 
 Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 10:49 AM
 To: TSA Cavers
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave Entrance Photography with a Drone
  
 I keep waiting for someone to ask permission to do this in Punkin
  
 On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote:
 
 
 Has anyone out there used radio controlled model drones with a Go-Pro video 
 camera to photograph big pits and/or big cave rooms?
  
 I have looked into this a little and a Quad-drone with four electric engines, 
 around 16 inches in diameter, 12 minute flight time, costs around $450. The 
 camera is another $400 or so. A Quad-drone with a 30 minute flight time cost 
 about $900.
  
 In Huntsville, AL there is a RC Hobby store that is loaded with this stuff. 
 The store is on Meridian St., 1/2 mile north of Lee High School where the NSS 
 sessions will be during the July convention.
  
  
 The latest Outside magazine sparked this interest.
  
  
  
 Preston in Browder, KY
  
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium. Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge 

texascavers Digest 31 Mar 2014 15:56:58 -0000 Issue 1956

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 31 Mar 2014 15:56:58 - Issue 1956

Topics (messages 23640 through 23644):

Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Fwd: A Cavers Cookbook
23640 by: Louise Power

Fw:
23641 by: Bill Stephens

Cave Entrance Photography with a Drone
23642 by: Preston Forsythe
23643 by: Arburn Don
23644 by: Stefan Creaser

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--
---BeginMessage---
One of my early in-cave foods was Vienna sausages. If I just wanted something 
warmed up like sandwiches, meatloaf, lasagna or sweet rolls, I Iaid them on top 
of the defroster and turned the temp up. Cooking on the road was simple and by 
the time you got to your campsite, dinner was ready.

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:23:45 +
From: dirt...@comcast.net
To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com
CC: s...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Fwd: A Cavers Cookbook

There are Bill's Campfire Beans a la 1991.  They can also be wired to the 
exhaust manifold of an appropriate caving vehicle.

DirtDoc


From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 9:20:06 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: A Cavers Cookbook

I'm pretty much at a loss. My thing for cave-trip cookery is putting a can of 
chili in the edge of the campfire. But I've seen evidence of creativity in 
others around here. --Mixon 

Begin forwarded message:From: BRYANT BETSILL bryantbets...@comcast.netDate: 
March 28, 2014 12:08:24 PM CDTTo: bmixon@alumni.uchicago.eduSubject: A Cavers 
Cookbook
 Subject: Cavers Cookbook
Dear Mr. Mixon,
  I have seen your name in the NSS NEWS over the decades and now I have cause 
to write to you. I am a bit thrilled and honored if you reply. I am A. 
Bryant Betsill of Fayetteville, GA member 23453, author of a few articles for 
the NSS NEWS back in the day, author of the Boy Scouts of America Venture 
Caving program circa 1991, author of five books available through Amazon.com, 
author of an article for the Georgia EMC magazine. Movie critic for the Bent 
Tree, the campus newspaper for Clayton State University, circa way back.I am 
interested in composing a cookbook with recipes suitable for either in cave or 
outside the cave, and include any amusing or instructive dialogue the 
contributor might have. For example, I have a recipe for Howard's Waterfall 
Hodag Stew and the story of the inquisition from a property owner before 
getting access to Mill Cave in Middle Tennessee all while I was wearing cargo 
shorts, flip flops and the SERA Hot Pink tee shirt.   As I said, I will 
collect, edit, re-write where needed, absorb any publishing cost and make it 
available to the NSS Bookstore at wholesale cost only. I'll not make a dime on 
it.  I need cavers to send me their stories, recipes, and any black and white 
drawings that might go along with the contribution.  Can you send along a 
story? Or refer me along to someone that might submit something? Thanks Bryant 
Betsill
Nicht durch Zorn, sondern durch Lachen tötet man.
Not by wrath does one kill, but by laughter.
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra  
 If you can't say something nice, come 
and sit by me.

You may reply to the address this 
message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org 


___
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
___
 This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET   
  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hi! 

News: http://olimp-club.com/egn/br-news.php

Bill Stephens
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Has anyone out there used radio controlled model drones with a Go-Pro video 
camera to photograph big pits and/or big cave rooms? 

I have looked into this a little and a Quad-drone with four electric engines, 
around 16 inches in diameter, 12 minute flight time, costs around $450. The 
camera is another $400 or so. A Quad-drone with a 30 minute flight time cost 
about $900.

In Huntsville, AL there is a RC Hobby store that is loaded with this stuff. The 
store is on Meridian St., 1/2 mile north of Lee High School where the NSS 
sessions will be during the July convention.


The latest Outside magazine sparked this interest.



Preston in Browder, KY---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I keep waiting for someone to ask permission to do this in Punkin

On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote:

 

texascavers Digest 2 Mar 2014 23:56:44 -0000 Issue 1941

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 2 Mar 2014 23:56:44 - Issue 1941

Topics (messages 23531 through 23535):

In Kentucky, a Family at the Center of the Earth
23531 by: Diana Tomchick

safety related - dusty caves
23532 by: David
23533 by: Lotus

AMCS call for material
23534 by: Mixon Bill

UT Grotto Meeting March 5th
23535 by: Andrea Croskrey

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--
---BeginMessage---
In today's New York Times Travel section, comes an article about the Bransford 
family of Mammoth cave guides.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/travel/in-kentucky-a-family-at-the-center-of-the-earth.html?ref=travel

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)










UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
 This new thread will self-destruct in 48 hours 

There is an article on the web, suggesting that dust mask are ineffective
at preventing the wearer ( caver ) from breathing in dust particles.

http://news.discovery.com/human/health/face-masks-provide-false-hope-against-pollution-140228.htm

It does seem like cavers visiting very dusty caves, should wear breathing
respirators, that have a rubber seal around the nose and mouth and replacable
canisters.Especially if you are going to be sturrying up the dust
by digging.

http://nsprod.blob.core.windows.net/material/204294/400.jpg

Unfortunately, those mask appear cumbersome and uncomfortable, especially when
exerting yourself, sweating, etc.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
An N100 
(http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001catalogIdentifier=2partNumber=422425langid=-1cid=PS:GooglePLAs:422425srccode=cii_17588969cpncode=33-265475753-2)
 or similar mask should be effective enough for most normal applications and 
won't be particularly cumbersome or obtrusive. If you need more protection than 
that you're probably in a bad-air cave and should probably be wearing a 
rebreather.

Lotus
stonerculture.com
-
All correspondence is betwixt solely the two parties directly involved. Any 
undue recipient has the task of returning this e-mail to its rightful owners; 
either the sender or intended recipient. Failure to represent yourself in a 
case involving a mistaken message will result in penalties not to exceed one 
hundred head of cattle, or equivalent trade value, per message.

On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:34 PM, David wrote:

  This new thread will self-destruct in 48 hours 
 
 There is an article on the web, suggesting that dust mask are ineffective
 at preventing the wearer ( caver ) from breathing in dust particles.
 
 http://news.discovery.com/human/health/face-masks-provide-false-hope-against-pollution-140228.htm
 
 It does seem like cavers visiting very dusty caves, should wear breathing
 respirators, that have a rubber seal around the nose and mouth and replacable
 canisters.Especially if you are going to be sturrying up the dust
 by digging.
 
 http://nsprod.blob.core.windows.net/material/204294/400.jpg
 
 Unfortunately, those mask appear cumbersome and uncomfortable, especially when
 exerting yourself, sweating, etc.
 
 David Locklear
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The Association for Mexican Cave studies seeks material for its  
forthcoming number 37 of the AMCS Activities Newsletter, for 2014.  
Articles are sought on any significant exploration or study of Mexican  
caves or karst. Articles may be accompanied by color photographs and  
should contain all pertinent cave maps. Shorter notes of a paragraph  
or so for the Mexico News section may also be submitted; they may be  
accompanied by a photograph or cave maps. Articles are published in  
English with Spanish abstracts; translation can be provided if  
necessary.


Contents of recent issues can be found at 
amcs-pubs.org/http://www.amcs-pubs.org/nl/cat.html

The deadline for material is April 25, 2014, but of course material  
will be welcome sooner. Material should be send toeditor@amcs- 
pubs.org. If there is anything that cannot be sent by e-mail, consult  
the editor for alternatives. The 

texascavers Digest 26 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0000 Issue 1939

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 26 Feb 2014 12:37:23 - Issue 1939

Topics (messages 23502 through 23512):

Mailing list manners and etiquitte
23502 by: Charles Goldsmith

Re: Bullies, and a (wait for it!) Trip Report
23503 by: Bill Steele
23511 by: Mike Flannigan
23512 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Re: Land Owner Relations
23504 by: Preston Forsythe

Keystone XL Pledge - Not Directly caving related
23505 by: scott grimes
23506 by: George-Paul Richmann
23507 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
23508 by: Ron Ralph

Karst Interest Group: 28 April to 2 May 2014!
23509 by: George Veni

a caver video
23510 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
First off, please do not reply all to this if you want to reply, send it
only to me.

I've stated several times that I won't moderate this list, I leave it up to
the community to self regulate.

However, I will say this as the list administrator and someone who pays for
the hosting out of my own pocket (with a few generous donations by several
cavers and groups) and also I donate my time to run this.

Please STOP with all of the snide remarks and jabs in on-topic emails.  It
does NOTHING but cause strife.  Texans as a whole are a fierce and proud
lot, and while I could say something along the lines of, Don't say
anything online that you wouldn't say to their face, but I know at least a
few of you would say it to the persons face.

Please be civil and do as your momma taught you, if you don't have
something nice to say, don't say it.

I respect everyone on this list, mainly cause you are a caver at heart, but
the fact that you are part of our community, but it saddens me when some of
you can't be an adult and keep your mouth shut.

So one last plea, stop with the jabs and snide remarks, take them off list.

Thanks
Charles
list administrator and not so much of a lurker anymore...
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Yeah, more underground-type caving! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2014, at 12:40 PM, caverarch cavera...@aol.com wrote:

 Great report, Jim. Exactly what the this list ought to be presenting.
 
 Roger G. Moore
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Jim Kennedy cavercr...@gmail.com
 To: CaveTex texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Mon, Feb 24, 2014 10:23 am
 Subject: [Texascavers] Bullies, and a (wait for it!) Trip Report
 
 I, for one, prefer the discourse of real cavers. But removing people from the 
 list goes against everything we stand for, unless there is a serious beach of 
 protocol that even cavers will not tolerate. To get us back to reality 
 (caving), 
 I offer the following trip report.
 
 This past weekend I took eight other cavers back to the historic Marneldo 
 Ranch 
 in Uvalde County. We started caving out there in 1997 and were pretty active 
 for 
 about 6 years before quitting for some reason. In the meantime, the ranch has 
 been broken up and now the family only has about 850 acres left. 
 
 Last year one of the new landowners contacted me about checking out his 
 caves. I 
 didn't know of any on that parcel, so I agreed. A small reconnaissance party 
 of 
 me, Lee Jay Graves, Will Quast, and Kris Peña enjoyed wonderful hospitality 
 and 
 were shown two new caves and found two more. And earlier this year Jean 
 Krejca 
 and I had the opportunity to revisit this guy, and also reconnected with the 
 owners of the remaining Marneldo, who treated me like a long-lost cousin. 
 They 
 asked me to give a presentation on caves to their valley-wide wildlife 
 association meeting, and I readily agreed. 
 
 The meeting was held this past Saturday, at one of the ramcher's homes (a new 
 contact for me). I spoke for about an hour to a very interested and engaged 
 audience. I think I met four more new landowners there, and even had a great 
 conversation with the local feed store owner, who was pretty knowledgeable 
 about 
 local caves and rock shelters. After the meeting, one of the new (to me) 
 owners 
 took us out on his place and showed us some very promising karst features. 
 
 Meanwhile, I had three teams out surveying. Galen Falgout, Ellie Watson, and 
 Lee 
 Jay Graves surveyed Montana Cave on Jim Livergood's place, one of the new 
 caves 
 from last year. Galen sketched and did a fine job. Will Quast, Kris Peña, and 
 Guin McDade surveyed Salamander Cave on the adjacent property, now owned by 
 Bob 
 Hixon. This is another new (to us) cave that we were shown last year, but I 
 suspect it may be Reddell's long-lost (from the early 60s) Grape Hollow Cave. 
 Lastly, Ben Hutchins led Yazmin Avila and Bryce Smith on a complete resurvey 
 of 
 Falling Animal 

texascavers Digest 24 Feb 2014 18:40:57 -0000 Issue 1938

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 24 Feb 2014 18:40:57 - Issue 1938

Topics (messages 23487 through 23501):

Re: Cavetex, etc.
23487 by: Nancy Weaver
23488 by: Heather Tucek
23489 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
23490 by: Stefan Creaser
23491 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
23492 by: Charles Goldsmith
23493 by: Edward J Gelsone

Re: Mystery Cave #3
23494 by: Mark Minton
23495 by: Bill Bentley

Bullies, and a (wait for it!) Trip Report
23496 by: Jim Kennedy
23497 by: Julia Germany
23500 by: ernie.texasphotoworks.com
23501 by: caverarch

Re: Uvalde County trip report
23498 by: Logan McNatt
23499 by: Logan McNatt

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--
---BeginMessage---
yet another gratuitious ugly comment.  This is why people get off cavetex.
I cannot imagine what drives this bullying - and it tells me way more about the 
person doing it than the rather eccentric, gentle and amusing person being 
bullyied.

On Feb 24, 2014, at 8:17 AM, Bill Steele wrote:

 I found a way to escape Locklear. Go in a cave. You won't see him there.
 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Definitely shows me which people I actually want to cave with.

Bullying isn't acceptable in middle schools; it shouldn't be acceptable
between grown adults within the caving community. Stop being children.


On 24 February 2014 09:10, Nancy Weaver nan...@prismnet.com wrote:

 yet another gratuitious ugly comment.  This is why people get off cavetex.
 I cannot imagine what drives this bullying - and it tells me way more
 about the person doing it than the rather eccentric, gentle and amusing
 person being bullyied.

 On Feb 24, 2014, at 8:17 AM, Bill Steele wrote:

  I found a way to escape Locklear. Go in a cave. You won't see him there.
 


 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com




-- 
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary  Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Amen, Nancy.  It might be funny if we weren't talking about a real person, a 
member of our caving family, someone who is genuinely interested in all 
things cave related, and a person who consistently tries to encourage 
discussion and assist the caving community.  


 
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com



On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:10 AM, Nancy Weaver nan...@prismnet.com wrote:
 
yet another gratuitious ugly comment.  This is why people get off cavetex.
I cannot imagine what drives this bullying - and it tells me way more about the 
person doing it than the rather eccentric, gentle and amusing person being 
bullyied.


On Feb 24, 2014, at 8:17 AM, Bill Steele wrote:

 I found a way to escape Locklear. Go in a cave. You won't see him there.
 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Bullying?!!

This is a gentle ribbing!

David is a self-acknowledged armchair caver, so one *is* unlikely to see him in 
a cave.

Is it Friday already?

-Original Message-
From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@prismnet.com]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 9:10 AM
To: CaveTex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cavetex, etc.

yet another gratuitious ugly comment.  This is why people get off cavetex.
I cannot imagine what drives this bullying - and it tells me way more about the 
person doing it than the rather eccentric, gentle and amusing person being 
bullyied.

On Feb 24, 2014, at 8:17 AM, Bill Steele wrote:

 I found a way to escape Locklear. Go in a cave. You won't see him there.



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 

texascavers Digest 23 Feb 2014 01:08:28 -0000 Issue 1936

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Feb 2014 01:08:28 - Issue 1936

Topics (messages 23457 through 23471):

Re: Mystery Cave #2
23457 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
23458 by: Pete Lindsley
23459 by: mark gee
23462 by: Charles Goldsmith
23466 by: Jill Orr

book review: Sacred Darkness
23460 by: Mixon Bill

February Government Canyon Project Report
23461 by: Marvin and Lisa

Mystery Cave #3
23463 by: Bill Bentley
23464 by: Harris, Michael
23465 by: Bill Bentley

Mystery cave
23467 by: pstrickland1.austin.rr.com
23468 by: Julie Jenkins
23469 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23470 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
23471 by: Don Cooper

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Swallow Sinkhole, Brewster County, probably 1971.

Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2014, at 4:00 PM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

 
 
 Mystery Cave #2
  
 OK David and you other Texicans.  This is also the entrance to a Texas cave.  
 The scenery in the background will give you the clue that it is not very 
 close to Houston. The rancher is the guy with his back toward you on the 
 right - wearing the c'boy hat.
  
 It will be interesting to see who comes up with the correct answer, and THEN 
 find out if they actually have been there -.
  
 DirtDoc
  
  
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/gcyxfeo87ogpjnj/Mystery%20cave%20%232.jpg
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Nope, been there and that's not it. What is pictured is a more impressive 
entrance.

 - Pete

On Feb 21, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Mark Minton wrote:

   I'll take a guess that it's Mesa de Anguila Sinkhole. I've never been 
there, but always wanted to.

Mark

At 05:00 PM 2/21/2014, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

 Mystery Cave #2
 
 OK David and you other Texicans.  This is also the entrance to a Texas cave.  
 The scenery in the background will give you the clue that it is not very 
 close to Houston. The rancher is the guy with his back toward you on the 
 right - wearing the c'boy hat.
 
 It will be interesting to see who comes up with the correct answer, and THEN 
 find out if they actually have been there -.
 
 DirtDoc
 
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/gcyxfeo87ogpjnj/Mystery%20cave%20%232.jpg

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

-
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---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Is the cave in Hudspeth County.




On Friday, February 21, 2014 6:34 PM, Pete Lindsley caverp...@gmail.com wrote:
  
Nope, been there and that's not it. What is pictured is a more impressive 
entrance.

- Pete

On Feb 21, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Mark Minton wrote:

       I'll take a guess that it's Mesa de Anguila Sinkhole. I've never been 
there, but always wanted to.

Mark

At 05:00 PM 2/21/2014, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

 Mystery Cave #2
 
 OK David and you other Texicans.  This is also the entrance to a Texas cave.  
 The scenery in the background will give you the clue that it is not very 
 close to Houston. The rancher is the guy with his back toward you on the 
 right - wearing the c'boy hat.
 
 It will be interesting to see who comes up with the correct answer, and THEN 
 find out if they actually have been there -.
 
 DirtDoc
 
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/gcyxfeo87ogpjnj/Mystery%20cave%20%232.jpg

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

-
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-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com/
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
These mystery cave pictures would be a nice page filler on the TC
newsletter.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 6:50 PM, mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Is the cave in Hudspeth County.


On Friday, February 21, 2014 6:34 PM, Pete Lindsley 
 caverp...@gmail.com wrote:
   Nope, been there and that's not it. What is pictured is a more
 impressive entrance.

 - Pete

 On Feb 21, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Mark Minton wrote:

   I'll take a guess that it's Mesa de Anguila Sinkhole. I've never
 been there, but always 

texascavers Digest 21 Feb 2014 23:20:19 -0000 Issue 1935

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 21 Feb 2014 23:20:19 - Issue 1935

Topics (messages 23446 through 23456):

Re: Mexico travel related
23446 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Re: a Boerne area cave
23447 by: Butch Fralia
23448 by: Kurt L. Menking

KY Cave Owners with Guns
23449 by: Preston Forsythe

Mystery Cave of the Month
23450 by: David
23451 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
23453 by: David

Sterling Rope Company Recalls Sewn Cords Due to Fall Hazard | CPSC.gov
23452 by: Jon Cradit

TSA Spring Convention News
23454 by: caverarch

Mystery Cave #2
23455 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23456 by: Mark Minton

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
That is very sad.  That is one of my favorite areas.  I, too, have fond 
memories of eating the most delicious langostinos there (restaurant/lobster 
farm was called Boca Toma II).


 
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com



On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:47 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
 
I have not been following any news at all in Mexico, since my last
post on the subject did not go so well.     So to my Mexican caving
friends, I apoligize if this post sounds bias or negative towards
your beautiful country, or if the news story is bogus.


Today, I saw a news story that looked alarming.

It is in an area that I used to love to go caving in.

Gomez Farias near the Nacimiento del Rio Frio.

    http://www.horacero.com.mx/noticia/?id=NHCVL124028

Hopefully this is just another exaggerated narco-traffic story.

It appears to be a recent news item.

For those of you who have never been to Gomez Farias, it is
a paradise for cavers, birders, swimmers, and hikers.

I would love to spend a week there each year, when the butterflies
are passing thru ( if there are any left that still do that ).

Unfortunately, of about 3 road-trips I went to around there, we either never
located the entrance or ran out of time, or the pits just were blind
and not too exciting.      Some of the best langostinos, I ever
had was there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF84A4V0418

I miss Mexico.     I married a woman from Mexico in 2001,
and never went back.   One of the ironic things about my life.

David Locklear

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Having been to Diamond Cave I'd like to hear your story.

Butch Fralia


-Original Message-
From: Preston Forsythe [mailto:pns_...@bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:43 AM
To: Kurt L. Menking; David
Cc: CaveTex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a Boerne area cave

Great stories. Thanks for posting. We have come out of a cave in western KY 
with the owner waiting and holding a pistol.

I have a story on Diamond Cave, located someplace south of Brownwood. 
Someday I'll post.

Preston in Outer Browder, KY.


- Original Message - 
From: Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org
To: David dlocklea...@gmail.com
Cc: CaveTex texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 7:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] a Boerne area cave


David,

I helped survey in several of the Klar caves back in the 80's and later.  I 
expect there are maps for some of them, but I don't recall seeing any of 
them.

The most memorable trip was one where we didn't even get into the cave.  We 
drove up to the house, to ask permission to go in one of the caves called 
Bad Weather Pit.  Only the wife and daughter were there, but the wife said 
we could go to the cave.  We asked if we could park along the paved county 
road and cross the fence to get to the cave since we weren't sure how to get

there through the ranch.  She said that would be fine.  We parked along the 
road, crossed the fence, hauled our gear 200 meters to the entrance, and 
started rigging the pit entrance.  We were all geared up and the first 
person was about to drop over the lip when a truck pulled up behind our VW 
van on the county road.  Two guys got out, both of them carrying guns.  They

crossed the fence and they just looked like they were really pissed.  We 
debated if we should hurry and get in the cave before they got to us, but 
decided they may cut the rope and strand us in there.  When they arrived 
they were sure they had caught a bunch of hippie-caver-trespassers red 
handed.  We assured Mr. Klar and his friend we had talked to his wife, 

texascavers Digest 20 Feb 2014 16:30:03 -0000 Issue 1934

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 20 Feb 2014 16:30:03 - Issue 1934

Topics (messages 23438 through 23445):

a Boerne area cave
23438 by: David
23441 by: Kurt L. Menking
23442 by: Preston Forsythe
23443 by: Jon Cradit
23444 by: Stefan Creaser
23445 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Mexico travel related
23439 by: David

From Giant Crystals to Tiny Microbes: The Mineralogy  Microbiology of NAICA. 
Presenter: Dr. Penny Boston
23440 by: Matt Bowers

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--
---BeginMessage---
Tonight, I was reminiscing about a cave I have only been to once way
back in 1986.

I was told by the caver that took me there, that it had not been surveyed and
was called Klars Ranch Salamander Cave, and that there were other
similar caves
in the area.

Here is a possible reference:

 http://www.karstportal.org/FileStorage/Texas_Caver/1968-v13-n12.pdf

We were hoping to go back to the cave, but planned trips got cancelled,
and the organizer got married, and went to grad school.

A wild guess would be that it is within a mile or two of the coordinates
below:

29.776495, -98.667373

I would love to see a map of the cave if anybody has a image file of it.

It was crawling mostly on stomach over muddy sharp rocks, to a very tight
vertical squeeze that dropped 5 feet down to a tiny stream passage that was
almost walking size for a little bit.   There
was a long and tight bypass crawlway around the squeeze. We only went to the
junction at the end of the bypass and confirmed it did connect to the squeeze.
The caver leading the trip, said there was a 20 foot pit downstream.   I think
we dragged vertical gear, but didn't get that far.

That caver now lives in the Burnet area and is a professor of
short-horned-lizards
( or was ).

I regret that we turned around with such promising passage ahead of us, but the
other 2 cavers with us was a non-caver, and the other one was short
and obese, and we
had to leave her back at the squeeze.   She did try to get thru it in
her panties though and I will never forget the sight of that.   I
guess the only person that knew our
location was the owner of the ranch.I would have pushed ahead a
little more, had
I known then that we would never ever make it back.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
David,

I helped survey in several of the Klar caves back in the 80's and later.  I 
expect there are maps for some of them, but I don't recall seeing any of them.  

The most memorable trip was one where we didn't even get into the cave.  We 
drove up to the house, to ask permission to go in one of the caves called Bad 
Weather Pit.  Only the wife and daughter were there, but the wife said we could 
go to the cave.  We asked if we could park along the paved county road and 
cross the fence to get to the cave since we weren't sure how to get there 
through the ranch.  She said that would be fine.  We parked along the road, 
crossed the fence, hauled our gear 200 meters to the entrance, and started 
rigging the pit entrance.  We were all geared up and the first person was about 
to drop over the lip when a truck pulled up behind our VW van on the county 
road.  Two guys got out, both of them carrying guns.  They crossed the fence 
and they just looked like they were really pissed.  We debated if we should 
hurry and get in the cave before they got to us, but decided they may cut the 
rope and strand us in there.  When they arrived they were sure they had caught 
a bunch of hippie-caver-trespassers red handed.  We assured Mr. Klar and his 
friend we had talked to his wife, and she said it was OK. He called us a bunch 
of damn liars and told us to get off of his property and never come back.  
Threatened to shoot first and ask questions later, etc.

We grabbed our stuff and left as quickly as we could.  The guys with guns just 
stood there and glared at us, and followed us back to the road.

None of us had the guts to go back there for many years.  Finally James Loftin 
made contact with Mr. Klar and gave them permission to go in the caves.  I 
finally went back to Bad Weather Pit with James, and help him survey and push 
some of the water passage at the bottom of the cave.

Kurt

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:44 PM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] a Boerne area cave

Tonight, I was reminiscing about a cave I have only been to once way back in 
1986.

I was told by the caver that took me there, that it had not been surveyed and 
was called Klars Ranch Salamander Cave, and that there were other similar 
caves in the area.

Here is a possible 

texascavers Digest 19 Feb 2014 22:12:02 -0000 Issue 1933

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 19 Feb 2014 22:12:02 - Issue 1933

Topics (messages 23430 through 23437):

UT Grotto Meeting February 17th
23430 by: Andrea Croskrey
23431 by: Andrea Croskrey

Deep Cave Survey Report - 2/15/2014
23432 by: Joe  Evelynn Mitchell

Re: Deep Cave survey Feb 15, 2014
23433 by: Logan McNatt

Joe's report
23434 by: David

Last minute reminder--Houston meeting tonight!
23435 by: Mallory Mayeux

a new technology
23436 by: David

22nd International Conference on Subterranean Biology
23437 by: George Veni

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--
---BeginMessage---
Howdy Texas Cavers!

There will be a UT Grotto meeting this Wednesday February 19, 2014.   At
this week's meeting we will get to hear from one of our newest members,
Lindsey Eaves. She'll be sharing her work, as a part of a six member
expedition team, to excavate and evaluate early human fossil remains in
Rising Star Cave, an excavation site in Cradle of Humankind World Heritage
Site, South Africa. Hope to see you there because this sounds like a talk
that shouldn't be missed!

We will now be meeting at 7:45pm in *Burdine 136*. Follow this link to a
map of where the building is located on the University of Texas campus:
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org

Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for
happy hour specials. Attendance by cavers varies but this area is the best
place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting.  Then after the
official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene
for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
www.posse-east.com

Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Sorry, February 19th is Wednesday, not the 17th.



On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Andrea Croskrey acrosk...@gmail.comwrote:

 Howdy Texas Cavers!

 There will be a UT Grotto meeting this Wednesday February 19, 2014.   At
 this week's meeting we will get to hear from one of our newest members,
 Lindsey Eaves. She'll be sharing her work, as a part of a six member
 expedition team, to excavate and evaluate early human fossil remains in
 Rising Star Cave, an excavation site in Cradle of Humankind World Heritage
 Site, South Africa. Hope to see you there because this sounds like a talk
 that shouldn't be missed!

 We will now be meeting at 7:45pm in *Burdine 136*. Follow this link to a
 map of where the building is located on the University of Texas campus:
 http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html

 For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
 www.utgrotto.org

 Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for
 happy hour specials. Attendance by cavers varies but this area is the best
 place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting.  Then after the
 official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene
 for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
 www.posse-east.com

 Cavingly,
 Andrea Croskrey
 UT Grotto Vice Chair

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
This is a preliminary report on the Deep Cave survey of February 15, 2014. Look 
for a more detailed report in a future issue of the Texas Caver.

This weekend marked the resumption of the project, which had been on hiatus 
since last May. We had one of the highest turnouts ever with a full 20 survey 
team members and Rob Bisset who generously donated his weekend to make and 
install new front and back screen doors on the cabin. Now we can enjoy the 
breeze inside with no bugs! Thanks Rob!

There were a record 6 survey teams set loose in the cave. Most of the focus of 
this trip was tie-ins and clean up of old survey and re-survey of the main 
tourist route between the Entrance and Helictite Room. The re-survey is needed 
since some sections of this route are poorly surveyed or not surveyed at all. 
But with so many teams, there was also plenty of new passage to be found, too.

Geary Schindel, Aaron Wertheim, and Vicky DeLeon, and Gregg Williams worked on 
the Tourist Route resurvey from the Hall of Masks up to the Entrance Room which 
remains to be finished next time. The team also carried out a number of 
geological measurement of the fault strikes and dips through this area and also 
measured the position of the chert nodule layer through the Swiss Cheese 
Corridor.

Don Arburn, Steve Gutting, and Tom Florer continued the Tourist Route survey on 
down through the Forest of Columns and into the Corkscrew. They completed 

texascavers Digest 17 Feb 2014 16:56:59 -0000 Issue 1932

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 17 Feb 2014 16:56:59 - Issue 1932

Topics (messages 23424 through 23429):

Great Dasypus!
23424 by: BMorgan994.aol.com

Food for caving trips
23425 by: David
23426 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23427 by: John Kerr
23428 by: John Kerr

Re: [SWR] TPWD Gassing Ban
23429 by: Bill Bentley

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--
---BeginMessage---
Here you see a solemn ceremony in which a virgin offers herself to Great  
Dasypus to insure a bountiful supply of worms in the year to come.
 

 
When I walked across the bridge into El Paso I had no documentation so the  
official asked me if I was an American citizen. In reply I simply held up 
the  armadillo and asked him if a Mexican would own such a thing. He let me 
in  without further ado.
 
SW---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
A really experienced caver should write a really good informative article on
the best foods to take on different kinds of caving trips.

Here is a new pizza that might someday become available:

http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_07/187681/140214-pizza-everlasting-002_30a22e709f7fb97fb302cf6c77260614.nbcnews-ux-640-440.jpg

Ref.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/military-scientists-create-pizza-lasts-three-years-n30686

Muddy hands make it difficult to eat sandwiches.   I think most cavers end up
eating a little mud.I know one time just east of Slaughter Canyon,
we had to eat our
food ( at the picnic grounds ) during a sandstorm, and the gritty sand
could not be kept out of the food.

Beef jerky seems like a good idea, but I think my stomach has a hard time
digesting it.

On a related note,

Cavers should try to take care of their BM, shortly before entering
the cave.   Right ?
Or is that just a speleo-myth ?

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Mud is GOOD. So is charcoal. Gets rid of the carbide. 

But whatever you do, do not eat beans. Even with hot sauce. 

Dirtdoc 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Theoretically, Soylant could become the ideal caving food, especially for 
expedition caving (primary considerations: bulk/nutritional 
density/packability, ease of preparation,  cost). Have not done any analysis 
of the above considerations, but assume it would be favorable, or at least 
competitive (price should drop after production ramps up). Not crazy about  
some of the latest tweaks to the formulation though. First production run has 
been delayed until Mar/Apr time frame. Anyone signed up to receive part of the 
first shipment (be a Guinea pig/beta tester)? Of course, serving size/dosage 
would require adjustment for increased physical activity. Would definitely 
recommend an above ground test run (well) beforehand, although some cavers may 
become above ground adherents irrespectively. A side benefit (as David brought 
up) is reduced waste generation (once again, probably best to transition a few 
days ahead of time).
Conventional alternatives are a whole other matter, and in my experience are 
based on (above ground) personal bias.

- John Kerr
Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:07 AM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 Mud is GOOD.  So is charcoal.  Gets rid of the carbide.
 
 But whatever you do, do not eat beans.  Even with hot sauce.
 
 Dirtdoc
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
My bad (spelling). It should have been Soylent.
https://campaign.soylent.me/soylent-free-your-body


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:47 PM, John Kerr jck...@gmail.com wrote:

 Theoretically, Soylant could become the ideal caving food, especially for
 expedition caving (primary considerations: bulk/nutritional
 density/packability, ease of preparation,  cost). Have not done any
 analysis of the above considerations, but assume it would be favorable, or
 at least competitive (price should drop after production ramps up). Not
 crazy about  some of the latest tweaks to the formulation though. First
 production run has been delayed until Mar/Apr time frame. Anyone signed up
 to receive part of the first shipment (be a Guinea pig/beta tester)? Of
 course, serving size/dosage would require adjustment for increased physical
 activity. Would definitely recommend an above ground test run (well)
 beforehand, although some cavers may become above ground adherents
 irrespectively. A side benefit (as David brought up) is reduced waste
 generation (once again, probably best to transition a few days ahead of
 time).
 Conventional alternatives are a whole other matter, and in my experience
 are based on (above ground) personal bias.

 - John Kerr
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:07 AM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

 Mud is GOOD.  So is charcoal.  Gets rid 

texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2014 04:50:24 -0000 Issue 1931

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2014 04:50:24 - Issue 1931

Topics (messages 23412 through 23423):

Re: Corvette incident, etc.
23412 by: Justin Leigh Shaw
23413 by: Andy Edwards

Dillers
23414 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
23417 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
23423 by: Gill Edigar

Re: explosives
23415 by: Gill Edigar

Want to work in Oregon?
23416 by: Louise Power

Ice Caves Article
23418 by: Mark Minton
23419 by: Louise Power

glacier caves
23420 by: Mixon Bill
23421 by: Diana Tomchick

Corvette Caverns ?
23422 by: David

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--
---BeginMessage---
Sometime last year I came upon the remains of a discarded meth lab in the
Karst of Southwestern Travis County. The authorities were notified and
carted the toxic trash away. I am aware of one other incident within the
last couple of years where a caver discovered a meth lab disposed of in the
Karst of Southwestern Travis County.

I've gathered that the alert I sent out yesterday is related to the
incident last month, however something is making someone think the person
who stored explosives in the one cave has also stored explosives in other
caves. The whole story seems dubious, but I'd sure of felt bad if I scoffed
at that warning and then someone got into a nasty situation.

Always remember, the organized caving community is only aware of about half
of the regular visitors to the caves of a given area. Not everyone who go's
into caves has the same intention as us.

Cave Safe,
   Justin


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Mallory Mayeux mmay...@gmail.com wrote:

 Actually, the Corvette museum is a very popular attraction in the cave
 country area in Kentucky. You always see brochures for it everywhere you go
 up there and the parking lot is typically full. When I worked at Mammoth, a
 guy I was dating dragged me there and there were plenty of other people
 there perusing the cars. The guy wanted to go to the Corvette museum
 because he wasn't into caves. (you can guess how long that relationship
 lasted.)

 Speaking of caves, in Kentucky, meth labs in caves are unfortunately a
 concern. If you enter a cave and smell a chemical-ish smell, or see rusted
 barrels, etc, you are advised to quickly exit and call the police. They
 could blow up. I don't know much about the Hays county situation and it
 sounds like it wasn't drug related, but it's something to be aware of,
 David, since you mused that caves likely don't have unattended
 explosives...but an underground meth lab definitely falls in that
 category. Be aware! And meth is not just a Kentucky thing. :/

 Mallory Mayeux

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 13, 2014, at 12:45 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Warning:  this email just contains inflated opinions and personal
 irrelevant stuff.

 I would bet more people would someday pay to see the wrecked Corvettes
 displayed as an attraction in a cave, than the museum would have ever made
 in the future, as it was probably not a profitable business, but relied
 heavily on donations and volunteers.  Make lemonade when you have lots of
 extra lemons.

 The Hays County incident does not sound like a malicious stunt.  Someone
 needs to store explosives somewhere safe, and they must have presumed wrong
 that their explosives would be found.   I seriously doubt there are random
 caves with unattended explosives.   It was probably a temporary storage for
 they were most likely to be used in the near future.   I doubt it was a
 caver, but if it was, then there would only be only a handful of
 suspects.   For example, name a caver that could even locate a cave in Hays
 County.   Hopefully it was not placed by a teen fantasizing about a
 copycat-style terrorist attack.

 And for an update on my last personal post,,

 I am searching Craigslist for a roommate now.   Unfortunatley, a few hours
 after I posted my CaveTex ad, one of the criminal associates of my evicted
 next door neighbor broke into the vacant apartment and I had to call the
 police again.   So I put a new deadbolt on the door, and only I have a key.
 I am hoping to live there in 2 weeks, and use the old apartment across the
 hallway, as my office and storage space, but will need a roommate first.

 My estranged wife wants to celebrate our 13 year marriage on Valentine's
 Day.   That item would never make it on to my to-do list.  But I will have
 to suffer through it for the kid.

 David Locklear




-- 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-797-4734

Box 40056
Austin, TX
78704


we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manor
  - John 

texascavers Digest 13 Feb 2014 18:49:50 -0000 Issue 1929

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 13 Feb 2014 18:49:50 - Issue 1929

Topics (messages 23390 through 23402):

Re: Suspicious Pakages in Caves
23390 by: Justin Leigh Shaw

Call for Presentations - US Exploration Session, NSS Convention 2014
23391 by: Pat Kambesis

Travis/Hays County Caves - watch out for suspicious packages
23392 by: Robin Gary

explosives
23393 by: Mixon Bill
23399 by: Julie Jenkins

Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes
23394 by: John Kerr
23395 by: Julia Germany
23396 by: Geary Schindel
23397 by: Phil Winkler
23398 by: Julia Germany
23400 by: Julie Jenkins
23402 by: Bill Walden

Corvette incident, etc.
23401 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
This just came from a senior geologist with the City of Austin. I'm not
sure of the imeptus, but I thought I'd pass it on.

-- Forwarded message --

From: Johns, David
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:51 AM
Subject: Suspicious Pakages in Caves

All,

I've been advised that there is an individual that may have placed
explosives in caves or sinkholes in southern Travis or northern Hays
Counties. If someone sees a suspicious object/package/box in a cave or
sinkhole, DO NOT TOUCH OR DISTURB IT. Quickly move away and immediately
call 911. No joke!

Please pass this on to those you know in the caving community.

Thx,

dj



David A. Johns, PG

City of Austin/WPD

P.O. Box 1088

Austin, Tx 78767-1088

Physical Address:

505 Barton Springs Rd, 11th Floor
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hey Cavers,

I have enjoyed reading trip reports and seeing project accouncements from 
various Texas cavers - so I know you all are out there (under there!) doing 
great stuff.  We are soliciting exploration/survey talks for US Exploration 
session at the upcoming NSS Convention and would love to hear about your work 
in person  You don't need salon quality photos or maps - some in-the-moment 
photos and line plots or sketches will do.  There is always a good story to 
tell to along with it - so consider signing up for a talk!  Contact me off list 
if you would like to get on the US Exploration schedule  pat.kambe...@wku.edu.

Pat K
US Exploration Session Chair
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
 *Hi y'all... I received this message from David Johns of the City of
Austin Watershed Protection Department.  I wanted to pass it along to all
of you.  Not sure who advised him, but good for all of us to be aware.*

*cheers,*
*   - Robin*

*From:* Johns, David
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:51 AM
*To:* Pope, Sylvia; Hiers, Scott; Hauwert, Nico
*Subject:* Suspicious Pakages in Caves



All,



I've been advised that there is an individual that may have placed
explosives in caves or sinkholes in southern Travis or northern Hays
Counties. If someone sees a suspicious object/package/box in a cave or
sinkhole, DO NOT TOUCH OR DISTURB IT. Quickly move away and immediately
call 911. No joke!



Please pass this on to those you know in the caving community.

Thx,

dj



David A. Johns, PG

City of Austin/WPD

P.O. Box 1088

Austin, Tx 78767-1088


-- 
sent from Robin's g-mail account
cell phone:  512-569-5659
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Does anybody have any knowledge to suggest that the recent warning  
about explosives is other than a very belated reaction to the finding  
of explosives in a Hays County cave some weeks ago? -- Mixon


To move your oxygen, a haemoglobin molecule contains about 10,000  
atoms and carries 8 atoms of oxygen. A red blood cell contains about  
280 million haemoglobin molecules, and a pint of blood contains about  
160 trillion red blood cells.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
No, I think the city is being paranoid and extra cautious. I just hope they 
don't something extreme like shutting down access even though the caves are 
pretty much all gated.

 On Feb 13, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 
 Does anybody have any knowledge to suggest that the recent warning about 
 explosives is other than a very belated reaction to the finding of explosives 
 in a Hays County cave some weeks ago? -- Mixon
 
 To move your oxygen, a haemoglobin molecule contains about 10,000 atoms and 
 carries 8 atoms of oxygen. A red blood cell contains about 280 million 
 haemoglobin molecules, and a pint of 

texascavers Digest 14 Feb 2014 02:40:32 -0000 Issue 1930

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 14 Feb 2014 02:40:32 - Issue 1930

Topics (messages 23403 through 23411):

Re: Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes
23403 by: Julie Jenkins

Re: Corvette incident, etc.
23404 by: Mallory Mayeux

New dish for next convention
23405 by: Louise Power
23406 by: Stefan Creaser
23407 by: Julia Germany
23408 by: Stefan Creaser
23410 by: Julia Germany

Save the Memorial Museum
23409 by: Louise Power

Re: Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes:  Inner Space Cavern in Texas
23411 by: Logan McNatt

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--
---BeginMessage---
Yea! I know in Austin when they find some underground void they call TCEQ or 
some other supposedly concerned knowledgeable organization and very often it's 
a geologist who doesn't know anything about karst (like the Round Rock 
incident).

 On Feb 13, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Bill Walden wdwal...@windstream.net wrote:
 
 Julie, Phil, Geary and all,
 
 As for Kentucky:
 
 In the past highway engineers didn't seem to care. Today the Kentucky 
 Speleological Survey is getting weekly requests for karst information from 
 construction companies, consulting companies and from the state.
 
 Bill Walden
 
 
 
 On 2/13/2014 1:35 PM, Julie Jenkins wrote:
 Duh, you'd think!
 
 On Feb 13, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:
 
 I was surprised to see it is located directly alongside the I-65 interstate 
 hwy. One would think the highway engineers would have known of the presence 
 of  cave system there. You can see it easily on Google-Earth.
 
 
 On Feb 13, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Geary Schindel wrote:
 
 When I lived up that way, you could get a specific rider on your policy 
 for sinkholes and geotechnical foundation issues.
  
 When I was in graduate school, I lived in a trailer about a mile from the 
 museum and maybe a mile from the corvette plant. There were large 
 sinkholes right in the trailer park.
  
 It would be interesting to see if their policy covers the building and/or 
 the cars.
  
 Geary
  
 From: Julia Germany [mailto:germa...@aol.com] 
 Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:51 AM
 To: jck...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes
  
 Thanks!  I read this yesterday, and was surprised to learn that property 
 (offices, homes), including vehicles, are NOT covered by insurance if 
 damaged by a sinkhole. There is an exclusion specifically for sinkholes.  
 Granted, I live on the Gulf Coast, and the only sinkholes are on streets 
 from underground leaking pipes. I got the impression from the article that 
 this exclusion is national, not just in cave areas.
 
 julia
  
  
  
 -Original Message-
 From: John Kerr jck...@gmail.com
 To: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 11:32 am
 Subject: [Texascavers] Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes
 
 FWIW.
 http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/02/12/moment-sinkhole-opens-under-corvette-museum-caught-on-camera/
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4335 / Virus Database: 3697/7089 - Release Date: 02/13/14
 
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Actually, the Corvette museum is a very popular attraction in the cave country 
area in Kentucky. You always see brochures for it everywhere you go up there 
and the parking lot is typically full. When I worked at Mammoth, a guy I was 
dating dragged me there and there were plenty of other people there perusing 
the cars. The guy wanted to go to the Corvette museum because he wasn't into 
caves. (you can guess how long that relationship lasted.)

Speaking of caves, in Kentucky, meth labs in caves are unfortunately a concern. 
If you enter a cave and smell a chemical-ish smell, or see rusted barrels, etc, 
you are advised to quickly exit and call the police. They could blow up. I 
don't know much about the Hays county situation and it sounds like it wasn't 
drug related, but it's something to be aware of, David, since you mused that 
caves likely don't have unattended explosives...but an underground meth lab 
definitely falls in that category. Be aware! And meth is not just a Kentucky 
thing. :/

Mallory Mayeux

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 13, 2014, at 12:45 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Warning:  this email just contains inflated opinions and personal irrelevant 
 stuff.
 
 I would bet more people would someday pay to see the wrecked Corvettes 
 displayed as an attraction in a cave, than the museum would have ever made in 
 the future, as it was probably not a profitable business, but relied heavily 
 on donations and volunteers.  Make lemonade when you have 

texascavers Digest 12 Feb 2014 17:47:40 -0000 Issue 1928

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 12 Feb 2014 17:47:40 - Issue 1928

Topics (messages 23382 through 23389):

Re: Webinar Invitation: Join us for Cave Rescue: When saving time means saving 
lives.  How to do a safe and effective cave search. Rene Ohms
23382 by: Geary Schindel
23384 by: Aubri Jenson

A true love story
23383 by: BMorgan994.aol.com

Honey Creek Cave, Haulers Needed (March 1st  March 22nd)
23385 by: ellie.thoene.gmail.com

The last work session
23386 by: Ron Ralph

Houston related - a guest room
23387 by: David

Re: [Mocaves] Corvettes meet terrible demise in sinkhole at museum
23388 by: Bill Bentley

Conservation and Management of Bat Resources
23389 by: Julia Germany

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

In case you didn’t see this.

There is a webinar tonight (Tuesday, February 11, 2014).

Feel free to pass this along to any grotto list serves out there.

Geary Schindel








Cave Rescue: When saving time means saving lives. How to do a safe and 
effective cave search.

Presenter: Rene Ohms NCRC Instructor


Join us for a Webinar on February 11


[http://img.gotomeeting.com/g2mimages/webinar/themes/basic/button_registerNow.gif]https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/160279599


Space is limited.
Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/160279599


Searching for a lost person(s) in a cave can be a daunting task and time is 
your enemy. In this CaveNet presentation, Rene will teach you what factors to 
consider when faced with a lost subject(s). How to save time by limiting your 
search area, strategies for deploying search teams, effective underground 
search techniques and how to keep your search team safe and accounted for.

Rene Ohms is an NCRC instructor, and has been involved with the National Cave 
Rescue Commission since 1999.  She is an experienced caver, cave surveyor, 
climber, and works for the National Park Service at Devils Tower National 
Monument in Wyoming. Rene has also worked at Jewel and Wind Cave in South 
Dakota.

Join us for this excellent Cave Rescue presentation. All CaveNet webinars are 
recorded and stored on the NSS website http://www.caves.org/ for future viewing 
or downloading.

Please arrive at least 10 minutes early to ensure your place in this webinar.


Title:

Cave Rescue:When saving time means saving lives. How to do a safe and effective 
cave search.
Presenter: Rene Ohms

Date:

Tuesday, February 11, 2014

Time:

8:00 PM - 9:00 PM CST (Which is 9PM ET/ 7PM MT/ 6PM PT. Please be aware of your 
time zone)


After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information 
about joining the Webinar.


System Requirements
PC-based attendees
Required: Windows® 8, 7, Vista, XP or 2003 Server


Mac®-based attendees
Required: Mac OS® X 10.6 or newer


Mobile attendees
Required: iPhone®, iPad®, Android™ phone or Android tablet
















attachment: winmail.dat---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I've signed up for this and can show it on the big screen at Longspur. Let
me know if you want to join!
Aubri
512-284-1500

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Geary Schindel 
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote:


 In case you didn't see this.

 There is a webinar tonight (Tuesday, February 11, 2014).

 Feel free to pass this along to any grotto list serves out there.

 Geary Schindel








 Cave Rescue: When saving time means saving lives. How to do a safe and
 effective cave search.

 Presenter: Rene Ohms NCRC Instructor


 Join us for a Webinar on February 11


 [
 http://img.gotomeeting.com/g2mimages/webinar/themes/basic/button_registerNow.gif
 ]https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/160279599


 Space is limited.
 Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
 https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/160279599


 Searching for a lost person(s) in a cave can be a daunting task and time
 is your enemy. In this CaveNet presentation, Rene will teach you what
 factors to consider when faced with a lost subject(s). How to save time by
 limiting your search area, strategies for deploying search teams, effective
 underground search techniques and how to keep your search team safe and
 accounted for.

 Rene Ohms is an NCRC instructor, and has been involved with the National
 Cave Rescue Commission since 1999.  She is an experienced caver, cave
 surveyor, climber, and works for the National Park Service at Devils Tower
 National Monument in Wyoming. Rene has also worked at Jewel and Wind Cave
 in South Dakota.

 Join us for this excellent Cave Rescue presentation. All CaveNet webinars
 are recorded and stored on the NSS website http://www.caves.org/ for
 future viewing or 

texascavers Digest 11 Feb 2014 04:45:43 -0000 Issue 1927

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 11 Feb 2014 04:45:43 - Issue 1927

Topics (messages 23375 through 23381):

Aggie caver related
23375 by: David

Re: Updates on 620 cave in Round Rock
23376 by: Mark Alman
23378 by: Gill Edigar

The NSS News changes
23377 by: David

Grotto 2 event at CWAN
23379 by: Mike Burrell

Re: [Rupestreweb] VENEZUELA: Exploración y registro de manifestación rupestre 
a través de carro robot teleoperado
23380 by: John Greer

Re: A true love story
23381 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
I think I posted this last year, so this is just an update.

The guy in the link below was one of the more active A.S.S. members in the
fall of 87.  He was a scrawny kid when he first joined the A.S.S.  His
activities were cut short by a rock-climbing accident at Enchanted Rock.
He was very lucky that day.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=45617003
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Thanks for posting this, Leslie!

Did any local cavers ever get to take a look at the cave, or survey it, or map 
it, or photograph it or, God forbid, write a trip report on what they found?

I think I saw a little morsel on this a while back, but, not much else.

Just curious, as it now permanently sealed away.


Thanks,

Mark




On Saturday, February 8, 2014 5:12 PM, Leslie Bell bellem...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
http://impactnews.com/austin-metro/round-rock-pflugerville-hutto/officials-put-a-cap-on-cave-situation/

 
Leslie Bell ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
There are unsubstantiated reports that the Williamson County contract
environmentalists, at least, surveyed the cave before sealing it but nobody
has produced a map as far as I know.
--Ediger


On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Mark Alman texascav...@yahoo.com wrote:


 Thanks for posting this, Leslie!

 Did any local cavers ever get to take a look at the cave, or survey it, or
 map it, or photograph it or, God forbid, write a trip report on what they
 found?

 I think I saw a little morsel on this a while back, but, not much else.

 Just curious, as it now permanently sealed away.


 Thanks,

 Mark



   On Saturday, February 8, 2014 5:12 PM, Leslie Bell bellem...@yahoo.com
 wrote:

 http://impactnews.com/austin-metro/round-rock-pflugerville-hutto/officials-put-a-cap-on-cave-situation/

 *Leslie Bell*

 * http://www.squeezebot.com/*



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I have not seen this on CaveTex yet, and just found out about it.

Would someone like to elaborate on it ?

The October issue is quite colorful.   Kudos to Gary Yemen.  Check out that
centerfold.  ( The grey background on the map is an obvious waste of ink,
though.) Also, kudos to Texas caver, Terry Raines and crew for at least 7
years of dedication to The NSS News.

Congratulations to caver, Ralph Hess !  70 frickin years, as an NSS member.

Having a color caver portrait for the obituaries is a nice touch.

I can no longer read The News without 1.25 reading glasses.

TCR made the events page a year in advance.  Kudos to TCR !

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Dear Friends

We are having an amazing event here at CWAN March 27th thru the 30th called 
Grotto 2. Grotto 1 was held in Longhorn Caverns. This is going to be 3 days 
500+ people 24 hrs a day. We are going to need help and it would be best if 
cavers were doing most of the security end of the helping. So please, check out 
the website www.grottocaveevents.com/site/  contact the organizers and sign up. 
It's going to be epic!!! Help us make it safe for the cave.

Mike Burrell
Manager
Cave Without a Name---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I forward this for those who might be interested. Note that this is a prototype 
(with lots of problems) that someone is trying out for the first time. 

I have a problem with all the work to get into a cave with rock art -- seems 
there must be a better entrance that the original people used. Still, I have 
seen a couple of un-enterable cracks that eventually opened up and contained 
archeological materials. And some exceedingly narrow holes in Maya country 
where it would be nice to have such a contraption before committing one's body 
to a possible uncomfortable extraction. Then, of course, there are the 
naturally sealed caves in Europe and other places (like Chauvet and many more) 
with nothing more than a minor air vent -- of course this little vehicle 
wouldn't work at all in Chauvet (with vertical drops and long complicated 
passages before entering the main painted chambers), but it's being tested in a 
small dry cave of very limited extent. We presently are using the tube 
cameras 

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2014 23:12:01 -0000 Issue 1926

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2014 23:12:01 - Issue 1926

Topics (messages 23371 through 23374):

Re: Looking for Contact information
23371 by: Bill Bentley

Registration is open: 6th International Workshop on Ice Caves!
23372 by: George Veni

January CBSP Project Trip Report
23373 by: Kris Pena

Updates on 620 cave in Round Rock
23374 by: Leslie Bell

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

Got it.
Thanks,
 Bill
On 2/6/2014 12:21 PM, Bill Bentley wrote:

I am looking for contact information for Bill Stone.
Please reply off list.
Thanks,
Bill

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com




---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Dear Friends,

I'm happy to announce that registration for the 6th International Workshop on 
Ice Caves (IWIC-VI) is now open! The conference will focus on all aspects of 
study involving caves with ice deposits and caves formed in ice. IWIC-VI will 
be held in Idaho Falls, Idaho, USA, from 17-22 August 2014. Details about 
IWIC-VI and registration (both on-line and mail-in forms) are available at 
http://www.iwic-vi.org/.

Here are some important details to know:

* IWIC registration traditionally includes the cost of meals to 
maximize the time everyone is together and learning, working, and playing 
together. IWIC-VI includes all lunches and dinners, and if you stay at the 
conference hotel your breakfast is included with your room fee.



* The registration prices increase on 3 May 2014, so register now!



* The deadline for all papers and extended abstracts is 14 April 2014. 
We look forward to seeing your papers soon.

IWIC-VI is hosted by the US National Cave and Karst Research Institute, with 
generous cooperation from members of the US National Speleological Society, and 
is a conference series of the International Union of Speleology's Commission on 
Glacier, Firn, and Ice Caves.

If you have any questions, please let me know. Also, please share this message 
with anyone who may be interested.

George


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.orgmailto:gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.orghttp://www.nckri.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Project Dates: January 11 - 12

Volunteers: Jim Kennedy, Matt Turner, William Quast, Kurt Menking, Kris
Peña, Dale Barnard

Total Hours: 42 hrs work time + 27 hrs drive time = 69 volunteer hours

Summary:

We had the conference center reserved this month in anticipation of the TSA
Winter Business Meeting and the TCMA Board of Governor's Meeting on Sunday
morning. Saturday morning we woke to a delicious taco breakfast prepared by
Kurt, assigned objectives and headed out. Dale wanted to return to Grand
Cedar Cave (SAB 292) which was presumed finished, but had some holes on the
map he wanted to investigate. Matt and Crash headed back out to the ever
cavernous Lively Pasture to continue work on Varmint Trap. Kris and Will
took park superintendant Kelby Bridwell out to view several of the easier
caves to consider new caves to expand the park's cave tour program.  By the
time the team's started to arrive back at the conference center, more
cavers had arrived for Sunday's meetings. Dinner was shared by all,
followed by a family friendly movie.  Both scheduled meetings convened
Sunday morning.


Full Trip Reports:

Team 1

Participants: Dale Barnard and Kurt Menking

Time Out: 10 AM

Time In: 5 PM

Total Hours: 14 work hours

Data: Two looseleaf pages of survey paper and project GPS

Objectives: Revisit Grand Cedar (SAB 292) and several other caves/features
to tag and re-GPS

Report: Followed GPS to Grand Cedar (SAB 292). Made more accurate reading.
Rigged cave, Dale had to shimmy down off rope because rope was stiff and
entrance tight. Ten feet down, horizontal passage thwarted him with
vertical gear on, but they enlarged it a little with a hammer (mostly Kurt
banging while inverted). Went through, but with bad air and only Dale's set
of vertical gear, decided to save it for next month with proper backup
support. Derigged.  Found Porcupine Cave (SAB 253) and made better GPS
reading and wrote detailed description. GPSed K32 and wrote description.
Not sure what new SAB number should be. Didn't find two features supposedly
less than 100 ft away. GPSed SAB 252, SAB 253, SAB 250, K13, SAB 292 all

texascavers Digest 6 Feb 2014 18:21:43 -0000 Issue 1925

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 6 Feb 2014 18:21:43 - Issue 1925

Topics (messages 23365 through 23370):

Re: AMCS blurb
23365 by: Julia Germany
23366 by: Mixon Bill

1997 Toyota Tacoma with camper for sale
23367 by: Jon

The Old Goat
23368 by: Rusty Jones

Mark Gee
23369 by: R D Milhollin

Looking for Contact information
23370 by: Bill Bentley

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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--
---BeginMessage---
Happy 50th anniversary AMCS (a little late, since it was sometime in 2013)!

julia

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 10:31 am
Subject: [Texascavers] AMCS blurb


Below is the blurb about the Association for Mexican Cave Studies that  
I've sent to the NSS for this year's members manual. The AMCS is a  
project of the NSS. -- Mixon

 Association for Mexican Cave Studies
 The AMCS has existed, mostly informally, since 1963, and is  
 dedicated to the exploration, study, and conservation of the caves  
 of Mexico, chiefly through a program of publications. There is no  
 formal membership list. Anyone who shares the goals of the AMCS and  
 pursues them with proper respect for the caves and people of Mexico  
 may consider himself or herself a member.
 Since the year 2000, the AMCS has published 13 Activities  
 Newsletters totaling 1831 pages, 15 AMCS Bulletins, 2191 pages, and  
 11 AMCS reprints, 2254 pages. Many older publications have been  
 scanned to produce 3729 pages of PDF files for our web site. Catalog  
 and links are at amcs-pubs.org.
 During 2013, the AMCS published Activities Newsletter 36 and  
 Bulletin 22, Sulfidic Karst Springs and Speleogenesis in the Sierra  
 de Chiapas.
 Considerable recent effort has gone into putting over 3000 maps of  
 Mexican caves on its web site (amcs-pubs.org/maps/) and cataloging  
 its library and archives (amcs-pubs.org/library/), which contain 405  
 disks, about 160 books, 460 periodical titles, and over 5000 items  
 in the paper files.
 Chairman: Bill Mixon, NSS 5728 OS AL. Advisory Board: Peter Sprouse,  
 NSS 14445 LB; William Russell, NSS 4357 HM CM; and James Reddell,  
 NSS 4697 SC CM. Contacts: AMCS, PO Box 7672, Austin, Texas 78713, 
www.amcs-pubs.org 
 , edi...@amcs-pubs.org, sa...@amcs-pubs.org.

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone’s feelings unintentionally.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I took a shortcut,letting my software count the paragraphs in the  
catalog of periodicals, forgetting that there are lots of paragraphs  
that aren't new listings. The actual number of periodical titles in  
the AMCS library is 97, not 460. -- Mixon


A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone’s feelings unintentionally.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I know this isn't cave related so I'll make it short.
My son is selling his Tacoma.
It's an automatic and in great shape with 300,000 of mostly highway miles.
It has a matching camper.
If you are interested send me and email for all the details.

cavefa...@yahoo.com

Jon---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/feb/05/caved-in-explorer-rescued/?local
He checked himself outta the hospital at 2:30 in the morning. Heck, they might 
have kicked hiim out.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Sorry Listeros, I can't seem to find a contact for Mark Gee. Mark, please 
contact me off-list when convenient.

RD Milhollin---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

I am looking for contact information for Bill Stone.
Please reply off list.
Thanks,
Bill
---End Message---

texascavers Digest 4 Feb 2014 16:31:21 -0000 Issue 1924

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Feb 2014 16:31:21 - Issue 1924

Topics (messages 23358 through 23364):

Re: Aggie Anniversary Party
23358 by: David

UT Grotto Meeting February 5th
23359 by: Andrea Croskrey

Cool canyoneering video Down the Line
23360 by: Frank Binney
23361 by: Preston Forsythe

TC material
23362 by: Mimi Jasek

Virus ?
23363 by: David

AMCS blurb
23364 by: Mixon Bill

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
I contacted about 20 old Ass'rs, or at least as many as my fuzzy
repressed memories could dig up.  I found most of them on various
social sites and sent them a message.

Here are some names of people I have lost contact with:

Chris Sobin
Tim Jones ( maybe in Austin )
Steve Tonneson ( maybe in Austin )
Pete Baron
Travis Kitchen   ( I think he stays in touch with other cavers )
Patricia Wise ( was on Facebook last year )
Cesar Koppel ( maybe Austin )
Audrey Wright ( Sulpher Springs in the late 80's )

The comments below are my personal observations of the A.S.S. from 1984 to 1993.


Many of the former Ass'rs I sent a message have probably not been in a
cave in 25
years.

Back in the mid 80's, each fall semester there would be a handful of
students that would
get super enthusiastic about caving, and want to go every other
weekend for about 2 months, but they usually backed out of the trip to
study, so most of the gatherings were
social gatherings at a food establishment near campus.   But after
those few months, they would just drop off the face of the earth.
There was never anybody to keep track
of who they all were.   Some where in my storage building I might have
some old members
list, but I think I contacted everybody that was active in the club
from 84 to 87.

I doubt any of them show up, but one of them is still a hiker at
least, and lives in
the vicinity of the party location.

I do not know any Ass'rs after 1993, or at least not that I know of.

There were lots of girls in the A.S.S., in the mid-80's and many of them were
very enthusiastic about the club, but the actual physical part of caving was
something that they were only briefly interested in.Some of them were dating
one of the guys in the club and appeared to be tagging along.   For
example, I can't help but remember in 1986 on a trip to Langtry Lead
Cave, everybody had to wait at the
entrance for Susan Shupak to get her make-up on.She got mad when
her boyfriend
abandoned her in the twilight zone, but I was able to guide her all the way down
to the beginning of the crawl to the Hall of Unicorns, before she
became claustrophobic.   She and I were close friends till 1989, and
then she married and disappeared.
Another example, is Audrey Wright.   She took the National Rescue Cave Class
in New Mexico around 1987, and never went caving again, at least, as
far as I know.
There was one exception though.I won't mention her name, but she
won numerous
vertical contest at TCR, and had dedicated her life to the outdoors.

Also, each semester there would be a grad student who was an experienced caver
that would come to the meetings and a local non-student adult, but they were too
busy to go on caving trips, and just attended meetings.They would
often offer
insight and suggestions, but the only one I remember has passed away.

Also, a lot of the members in the club were just the roommates of
someone who liked
caving or considered themselves a caver.That roommate or friend,
would attend
meetings and help out, and might have gone to Enchanted Rock Cave or something
like that, but by the end of the fall semester they had dissappeared.

The spring semesters were really hard to get new members and to
encourage members to go caving and by late April,
it was almost hopeless.Each fall, the club started over from
scratch, with almost
zero input from any experienced caver, and equipment and stuff from
the previous
generation of cavers disappeared.

And like any caving club, there would be people that attend who have
no desire to
go caving, but just want to be part of something.So the A.S.S.
would sometimes have
75 members by the 2nd fall meeting, and the last spring meeting there
would be about 4
people.

So in a nutshell, I am almost no help.

David Locklear
1987 A.S.S Vice-President
( Disclaimer:Appointed V.P. by outgoing 1986 president
because there were only 2 people in the club )
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Howdy Texas Cavers!

I hope you all are ready for another UT Grotto Meeting this week!  This
Wednesday we're having a double feature.  Maya Liu will share photos from
caves she got to visit while on vacation in Puerto Rico and James 

texascavers Digest 2 Feb 2014 06:41:56 -0000 Issue 1923

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 2 Feb 2014 06:41:56 - Issue 1923

Topics (messages 23354 through 23357):

an interesting video
23354 by: David

KIWI
23355 by: Gill Edigar

lava tubes book
23356 by: Mixon Bill

14th Sinkhole Conference: mark your calendars!
23357 by: George Veni

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--
---BeginMessage---
This parachuting video was uploaded today.

I can't find anything caving related about it, but it is the best
helmet-cam video I have ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYw4meRWGd4#t=464
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
KXAN senior weatherman Jim Spencer said the Sunday temperature will not be
above 48, maybe 44, and 50% chance of rain, and lots of wind. On account of
that I'm gonna cancel the clean up and barrel resurrection I announced at
the Grotto meeting. Sorry, but that's just too cold for Texas cavers.

--Ediger
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Dave Bunnell's second edition of Caves of Fire about lava tubes is  
now available from the NSS bookstore (nssbookstore.org). I reviewed  
the first edition back in 2008, and I helped with some editing of the  
new edition, so I'm not disinterested and won't review the new one.  
But stats are 144 pages softbound, full of color pix, ISBN  
9781879961319, not that it will do you any good to know that, because  
it's for sale only by the NSS bookstore. $15.00 plus shipping, NSS  
members $13.50. An ad just sent to the NSS News by the bookstore says  
that NSS _life_ members can get it for only $12, and the web site said  
that a couple of days ago, but now the web site says $13.50--about par  
for the NSS bookstore. Ever notice how the bookstore's web page has a  
column of our most popular items that is in fact largely random and  
usually contains some things they probably haven't sold a copy of for  
years?--Mixon


A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone’s feelings unintentionally.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Dear Friends,

I am happy to announce that the 14th Multidisciplinary Conference on Sinkholes 
and the Engineering and Environmental Impacts of Karst, which is generally 
known as The Sinkhole Conference, will be held in Rochester, Minnesota, on 
5-9 October 2015. Mark your calendars!

For 30 years this conference series has been the premier conference for all 
aspects of karst geoscience and related engineering and environmental 
issues-and not just sinkholes. This next Sinkhole Conference is being jointly 
organized with the Minnesota Groundwater Association and should be an 
exceptional meeting

The conference also now has a permanent website site, at the easy-to-remember 
address: http://www.sinkholeconference.com/. Bookmark and visit it for more 
information. The new Past Conferences tab includes the proceedings of the 
13th Sinkhole Conference for free download. Information on conference hotels, 
the call for papers, and more will be posted later this year.

If you have any questions, let me know. Also, please distribute this 
information to anyone you think may be interested.

George


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.orgmailto:gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.orghttp://www.nckri.org

---End Message---

texascavers Digest 30 Jan 2014 17:40:36 -0000 Issue 1922

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 30 Jan 2014 17:40:36 - Issue 1922

Topics (messages 23347 through 23353):

Lascaux Cave exhibit in Houston highly recommended
23347 by: Speleosteele.aol.com

Qesem Cave
23348 by: David
23349 by: Geary Schindel

Lava cave related
23350 by: David

OK, who took it?!
23351 by: Louise Power

Re: [greater_houston_grotto] Fwd: WNS Spreads into Arkansas
23352 by: Julia Germany

Calling all old ASS!
23353 by: Chase, Allison Christine

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Hello, fellow Texas cavers,
 
Last Saturday Diana Tomchick, Roger and Candice Moore, and I enjoyed  the 
Lascaux Cave exhibit at the Houston Museum of Natural History. My  advice is 
to not miss this wonderful opportunity. 
 
http://www.hmns.org/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=651Itemid=
683
 
Lascaux Cave has been called the Sistine Chapel of Prehistory.  It's  
utterly astounding how well done these 19,000 year old paintings are. 
 
The exhibit will be in Houston until March 23rd. I may go again before it  
leaves.
 
Good cavin',
 
Bill Steele
 
Additional related links:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMeMCkk2Ho
 
http://www.artshound.com/event/detail/441789672/Scenes_from_the_Stone_Age_Th
e_Cave_Paintings_of_Lascaux_
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=lascaux+cave+houstontbm=ischtbo=usource=u
nivsa=Xei=qm3oUrnCEsP_kAfJxYHICgved=0CFkQsAQbiw=1335bih=578---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
There is a story in the news this week about an archealogical dig in
Israel.

These researcher's theory is that this spot proves humans cooked meats
as far back as 300,000 years ago.

This is interesting for several reasons.

To me, the fact that we have a spot in a cave where something like
21,478 generations ago, my ancestors might have been in this cave sitting
there roasting a pig, celebrating the solistice or the birth of a new baby, or
something fun, is an exciting image to picture.I wonder what there names
were, and how many of them sat around the fire, and how cold was it and
were they happy or frightened. Was there danger lurking outside the cave
such as large predators or war, or ghetto neighbors l like the ones that live
next door to me.Imagine living your whole life near that cave,
never having to
have used your brain to calculate your taxes or to watch tv, or living
in a world
where the nearby population was probably only in the thousands, if not the
hundreds.   I am guessing their total vocabulary was only a few thousand words
to memorize, and since they didn't have to memorize anything, their brains were
free to daydream and count the millions of stars in the sky.

I wonder if anyone is still related to these cave dwellers, or did their lineage
become extinct ?

My feeling is they spent a lot of time pondering whether the chicken came
before the egg, or why the sun and moon are round, and other natural questions
that we too talk about while sitting around the campfire.   Surely,
they had some
kind of humor and told jokes, and sang songs and beat on something with sticks
to make percussion sounds.  I bet the old timers would say, back
in the good
ole days, we didn't have a wheel, you younguns got it made,  etc.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
David,

In our hectic lives, we sometimes forget to stop and think about how life might 
have been and to ponder these questions. 

Early man was free to roam and to wonder of the magic of nature - with an 
entire planet to explore.  

Well said.

Geary

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:59 AM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Qesem Cave

There is a story in the news this week about an archealogical dig in Israel.

These researcher's theory is that this spot proves humans cooked meats as far 
back as 300,000 years ago.

This is interesting for several reasons.

To me, the fact that we have a spot in a cave where something like
21,478 generations ago, my ancestors might have been in this cave sitting there 
roasting a pig, celebrating the solistice or the birth of a new baby, or
something fun, is an exciting image to picture.I wonder what there names
were, and how many of them sat around the fire, and how cold was it and
were they happy or frightened. Was there danger lurking outside the cave
such as large predators or war, or ghetto neighbors l like the ones that live
next door to me.Imagine living your whole life near that cave,
never having to
have used your brain to calculate your taxes or to watch tv, or living in a 
world where the nearby population was probably only in the 

texascavers Digest 23 Jan 2014 05:44:00 -0000 Issue 1919

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Jan 2014 05:44:00 - Issue 1919

Topics (messages 23319 through 23324):

Re: Women Cavers' Survey
23319 by: Logan McNatt

Re: climbing for a living
23320 by: Charles Goldsmith
23321 by: Stefan Creaser

Punkin Cave survey announcement!
23322 by: Jim Kennedy

Change of email address
23323 by: F D CAUDLE

[DP; Still need a Trip Leader!!]
23324 by: Arburn Don

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---

Worked for me too! O:-)

On 1/20/2014 7:24 PM, Julie Jenkins wrote:

The link worked great if I just copied the whole link and pasted it onto my 
browser.
I hope that All women cavers will respond to the survey. Maybe something good 
will come from it, who knows.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 20, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Julia Germany germa...@aol.com 
mailto:germa...@aol.com wrote:


Worked for me!

Thanks for posting!

julia



-Original Message-
From: R D Milhollin rdmilhol...@yahoo.com mailto:rdmilhol...@yahoo.com
To: Texascavers List texascavers@texascavers.com 
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2014 2:44 pm
Subject: [Texascavers] Women Cavers' Survey

I was told the last attempt to post this on TexasCavers included a faulty link. This is directly from the author of the survey, so I hope the 
link works.


On Sunday, January 19, 2014 1:50 PM, Lisa Bauman lisabauma...@gmail.com 
mailto:lisabauma...@gmail.com wrote:
[Attachment(s) 
https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=762nusvrsjh2g#TopText from 
Lisa Bauman included below]
TAKE SURVEY (women cavers)
https://www.murvey.com/s?52d71543c17c0a7d1a000cfb
Check out this image (attached) to find out what states and counties have been 
polled so far.
Ladies, you have about 60 more days to represent! Also, I only have access to NW region area yahoo forums. Please pass this along so that 
grottos all over the US can have a chance to be included.

THANK YOU!
__._,_.___
Attachment(s) from Lisa Bauman
1 of 1 Photo(s)
Screenshot_2014-01-19-11-43-55-1.png 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/attachments/folder/1792116225/item/1334368080/view
Screenshot_2014-01-19-11-43-55-1.png 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/attachments/folder/1792116225/item/1334368080/view


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
LOL Gill, I don't think that is technically true.  From what I understand,
the light you see from the stars have travelled to you, not that you can
see that far.

Now, an astronomer may chime in here and correct me or further clarify, if
that is the case.


On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:

 I don't know how far you can see in Wyoming these days but here in South
 Austin  on any clear day I can see for 93 million miles. On a clear night I
 can see for a whole lot farther--Light Years, even, with the naked eye and
 without any effort worth mentioning.
 --Ediger


 On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:




 The view IS good.  In Wyoming I could see forever.

 My observation is that it is a bit different these days.  A whole bunch
 of mandated safety guidelines preclude just doing it with your climbing
 ropes and accustomed hardware and techniques.

 And yes, Bill, I have outgrown it entirely.

 DirtDoc



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Isn't that the same for everything, Charles?

Light travels from (reflected from...) any object and is then observed by the 
eye.

Cheers,
Stefan

From: Charles Goldsmith [wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: 20 January 2014 20:42
To: Gill Edigar
Cc: Cave Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] climbing for a living

LOL Gill, I don't think that is technically true.  From what I understand, the 
light you see from the stars have travelled to you, not that you can see that 
far.

Now, an astronomer may chime in here and correct me or further clarify, if that 
is the case.


On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Gill Edigar 
gi...@att.netmailto:gi...@att.net wrote:
I don't know how far you can see in Wyoming these days but here in South Austin 
 on any clear day I can see for 93 million miles. On a clear night I can see 
for a whole lot farther--Light Years, even, with the naked eye and without any 
effort worth mentioning.
--Ediger


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM, 
dirt...@comcast.netmailto:dirt...@comcast.net wrote:



The view IS good.  In Wyoming I could see forever.

My observation is that it is a bit different these days.  A whole bunch of 
mandated safety guidelines preclude just doing it with your climbing ropes 
and accustomed hardware and techniques.

And yes, Bill, I have outgrown it entirely.

DirtDoc



-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents 

texascavers Digest 21 Jan 2014 01:24:54 -0000 Issue 1918

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 21 Jan 2014 01:24:54 - Issue 1918

Topics (messages 23307 through 23318):

Re: The story of Bushman's Hole
23307 by: galenfalgout.yahoo.com

Re: [SWR] FWD: women cavers poll
23308 by: RD

Update on events of 2013
23309 by: Mallory Mayeux

Re: Bomb In Hays County Cave
23310 by: Gill Edigar
23311 by: Louise Power

Get those maps and photos ready for Spring Convention!
23312 by: caverarch
23315 by: caverarch

Women Cavers' Survey
23313 by: RD
23316 by: Julia Germany
23318 by: Julie Jenkins

TSA Informational Speakers Requested!
23314 by: Mallory Mayeux

Re: climbing for a living
23317 by: Gill Edigar

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Wow very sad

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2014, at 9:08 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:

 This afternoon on This American Life, the story of Bushman's Hole (or Cave) 
 was retold by Julia DeWitt. Believed to be the third-deepest submerged 
 freshwater cave (or sinkhole) in the world, approximately 270 meters (886 
 feet) deep. It is located in the Northern Cape province of South Africa. In 
 1993, Eben Lyden drowned there in a dive. In a subsequent dive in 2005, Dave 
 Shaw came across Lyden's bones and equipment. He told his diving partner that 
 he was going to come back and recover the remains. They organized a big 
 recovery party. Unfortunately, Shaw died during the attempt, apparently 
 getting tangled up in his lines and the remains. Both Shaw's and Lyden's 
 bodies surfaced eventually. Shaw had a camera on his helmet which captured 
 the attempt. You can catch the story online where it was originally broadcast:
 
 http://snapjudgment.org/where-no-one-should-go 
 
 It is a very sad story.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: jen . bigredfo...@hotmail.com
 Date: January 20, 2014 at 9:17:22 AM CST
 To: s...@caver.net s...@caver.net
 Subject: [SWR] FWD: women cavers poll
 
 Lisa Bauman lisagoescaving
 
 TAKE SURVEY (women cavers only)
 If you are a woman please caver take this poll so I can represent you to the 
 NSS. A poll like this has never happened since 1968 when under 100 women 
 responded to a poll made by women cavers in Texas. We all know that the world 
 has changed quite a bit since then. I'm looking at the results and I think 
 you will all be amazed at the patterns I am seeing. I can't wait to share 
 your ideas and demographics with the NSS!!
 https://www.murvey.com/s?52d71543c17c0a7d1a000cfb
 
 Check out this image (attached) to find out what states and counties have
 been polled so far.
 
 Ladies, you have about 60 more days to represent! Also, I only have access
 to NW region area yahoo forums. Please pass this along so that grottos all
 over the US can have a chance to be included.
 
 THANK YOU!
 Attachments with this message:
 1 of 1 Photo(s)

 Screenshot_2014-01-19-11-43-55-1.png
 
 ___
 SWR mailing list
 s...@caver.net
 http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
 ___
 This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hello Texas Cavers!

I am about to put out a call shortly for TSA convention speakers, but since
this listserv turned into MalloryTex temporarily for a couple of months
there last summer, I just wanted to kind of address my situation and get it
out of the way first. :)

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! For everything--all your caring, your support,
your interest, your patience, all the gifts/donations I recieved from
grottos and cavers in this state. I cried a lot of sad/confused tears in
the hospital, but a lot of happy tears after I saw the outpouring of
support this community sent my way.  SO cool.

It's been a rough, messy year, and there's a lot still to come. For
example, the guy who hit me hasn't been convicted yet (due to endless court
resets), and there will be several court dates coming up in the coming
months, perhaps years, and for that reason I really don't want to put much
about the details of my recovery on a public listserv.   However, when this
whole situation is resolved, rest assured I will shout the happy events
from the rooftops. Or maybe the top of some rope, in a pit. :) Regarding
caving, it'll be some time before I'm in the shape I used to be in, but I
am in a program called Strength Unlimited to try to work on some of the
physical damage from the incident, and I'm pleased with it so far. The
prognosis is WA more positive than it was last summer. :) I graduated

texascavers Digest 20 Jan 2014 03:09:00 -0000 Issue 1917

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 20 Jan 2014 03:09:00 - Issue 1917

Topics (messages 23291 through 23306):

a vertical practice video
23291 by: David
23292 by: Nancy Weaver
23294 by: Bob Booth

Re: Texas Memorial Museum demise
23293 by: Chris Vreeland
23295 by: Jon

job related - climbing for a living
23296 by: David

ATV's in caves
23297 by: David

climbing for a living
23298 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23299 by: Bill Steele
23300 by: Logan McNatt
23301 by: Bill Bentley
23302 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23303 by: Mark Minton

Whatever happened to ?
23304 by: David
23305 by: Mark Minton

The story of Bushman's Hole
23306 by: Louise Power

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
An Italian caver uploaded this video last week.

Are your vertical practice sessions this much fun ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QoNlQ264cU
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

great video.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The Gruppo Speleologico Bergamasco did public vertical demos from the walls
of the Citta Alta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iN3WfKxMwc#t=1m10s).
I have some stills but no video.


On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 2:39 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 An Italian caver uploaded this video last week.

 Are your vertical practice sessions this much fun ?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QoNlQ264cU

 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
From what I understand, any private fund-raising efforts over the 100,000 level 
have to go through the Dean's office, which makes them a non-starter, since the 
dean wants the museum shut down. She told the current director that she would 
have closed it outright but the president's office wouldn't approve that, so 
she defunded it instead. Dean Hicke's intent is that TMM cease to exist.

It would take an act of legislature to eliminate the state's portion of the 
budget, but I doubt that there's going to be huge interest at the state level 
to increase funding for a museum that the school wants dead, though I encourage 
anyone who is politically connected enough to give it a try.

 On Jan 17, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Diana Tomchick 
 diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote:
 
 Wouldn't it also be productive to look into a different funding source? Money 
 is tight in all areas of academia these days, and especially in the sciences. 
 Why not try going straight to the politicians there in Austin, they're the 
 ones that control how much money winds up at UT and the College of Natural 
 Sciences?
 
 Diana
 
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 Diana R. Tomchick
 Professor
 University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
 Department of Biophysics
 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
 Rm. ND10.214A
 Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
 Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
 214-645-6383 (phone)
 214-645-6353 (fax)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Jan 17, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Ron Ralph wrote:
 
 Mary,
 
 How did it go giving the petition to Dean Hicke?
 
 Ron
 
 You are receiving this e-mail through the Texas Exes Alumni Directory. Your 
 address has not been disclosed to the sender of the e-mail, but has been 
 forwarded to you on their behalf. You can update your profile and allow 
 other UT grads to contact you at www.texasexes.org/directory.
 
 Dear Ronald, My name is Mary Newcomb, daughter of William W. Newcomb, an 
 anthropology professor and Director of the Texas Memorial Museum for many 
 years. You may have heard that the College of Natural Sciences will cut all 
 funding - $620,000 – to the museum beginning next year. This is a travesty 
 that can not be tolerated! My husband and I have started a grassroots effort 
 called Save the Texas Memorial Museum. Our goal is to gather many thousand 
 signatures on a protest petition and deliver it to Dean Hicke of the College 
 of Natural Sciences on Jan. 15, 2014 – the 75th anniversary of the museum’s 
 opening. We have a Facebook page and a group on meetup.com, where details of 
 our first meeting are. Please “Like” us on Facebook and RSVP on meetup.com. 
 You can sign the petition in person at our first gathering, the details of 
 which are on meetup.com. Or, we will email you the petition which you can 
 sign and mail back to us. Thank you in advance for your support! Kindest 
 regards, Mary Newcomb and Jeri Putnam
 
 
 
 
 UT Southwestern 

texascavers Digest 17 Jan 2014 21:35:15 -0000 Issue 1915

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 17 Jan 2014 21:35:15 - Issue 1915

Topics (messages 23276 through 23286):

Re: Neversink frozen winter splendor :
23276 by: Josh Rubinstein

Re: Bomb In Hays County Cave
23277 by: Julie Jenkins

Bat size minidrone
23278 by: Lee H. Skinner

Re: Winter TSA Business Meeting minutes
23279 by: Jacqueline Thomas

Texas Memorial Museum demise
23280 by: Ron Ralph
23281 by: Diana Tomchick
23282 by: Katherine Arens
23283 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
23284 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23285 by: R D Milhollin
23286 by: James Jasek

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
It is not the first time Neversink froze.  I was in Alabama the winter of
1983-84.  There was a hard freeze that lasted for days.  I remember walking
up on Stephen's Gap and globe of ice covered branches around the entrances.
 So much ice had accumulate on the rope from the night before that we could
not haul it and to rig a hauling system to lower the rope to the lower
entrance and pull it out.  I remember Buddy Lane gardening the ice off the
wall of Valhalla and then making the rope sing.  That summer one two cavers
were integrated into the rock, when the roof of alcove we all used to
protects us from any rock dislodge by climbers collapsed on them.  Some
time it is not the freeze but the thaw that kills.  And, yes, I remember.

While writing this e-mail, I traveled to the Southeast Cave Conservancy web
page.  Steve Hudson, the owner of PMI, has died.  No better friend to
cavers.  No better caver.

Josh


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:03 AM, scott grimes scottgrime...@gmail.comwrote:

 A fellow texas caver Rachel Saker, (from the aggie grotto) also dropped
 neversink during the big freeze in alabama, I'd expect her to post pictures
 to facebook sometime soon. Very cool looking!

 scott


 On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:53 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2539778/Alabama-cave-freezes-time-explorers-discover-hundreds-glistening-ice-stalagmite.html?ITO=1490ns_mchannel=rssns_campaign=1490


 Sent from my iPhone
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Is anyone working on Hays Co caves? There was a neighborhood location in the 
article! Just curious?!
jules

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:53 PM, ryan monjaras trog...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Here's the best source I've found so far.
 
 http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news?fId=240379931fPath=/news/local/fDomain=10232
 
 Semper Exploro 
 Ryan Monjaras
 Maverick Grotto
 Cowtown Grotto
 DFW Grotto
 UT Grotto
 Bexar Grotto
 Greater Houston Grotto
 TSA
 TCMA
 Lost Oasis Preserve Manager
 (832)754-5778
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Now if we could only get it to autonomously explore and photograph high 
leads:


http://tinyurl.com/k45qabw
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I just finished reading the minutes from the Winter Meeting. Very well done, 
Heather, and to all attendees: You covered a lot of ground in a short time!

Jacqui


On Jan 16, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Heather Tucek wrote:

 The minutes from the winter Business Meeting for the Texas Speleological 
 Association from last Sunday are now available to be viewed online!
 
 http://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2014-01-12_Winter_TSA_Business_Meeting.pdf
 
 
 
 -- 
 Go find out!
 -Heather Tuček
 UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
 TSA Secretary  Membership Chair
 NSS 59660
 (512) 773-1348
 trog...@cavechat.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Mary,

How did it go giving the petition to Dean Hicke?

Ron

You are receiving this e-mail through the Texas Exes Alumni Directory. Your 
address has not been disclosed to the sender of the e-mail, but has been 
forwarded to you on their behalf. You can update your profile and allow other 
UT grads to contact you at www.texasexes.org/directory.

Dear Ronald, My name is Mary Newcomb, daughter of William W. Newcomb, an 
anthropology professor and Director of the Texas Memorial Museum for many 
years. You may have heard that the College of Natural Sciences will cut all 
funding - $620,000 – to the museum beginning next year. This is a travesty that 
can not be tolerated! My husband and I have started a grassroots effort called 
Save the Texas Memorial Museum. Our goal is to gather many thousand signatures 
on a protest petition and deliver it to Dean Hicke of the College of Natural 
Sciences on Jan. 15, 2014 – the 75th 

texascavers Digest 17 Jan 2014 22:59:57 -0000 Issue 1916

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 17 Jan 2014 22:59:57 - Issue 1916

Topics (messages 23287 through 23290):

Re: Texas Memorial Museum demise
23287 by: Ron Ralph
23288 by: Katherine Arens
23289 by: Louise Power
23290 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---


From: Jeri Putnam 
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:03 PM
To: Ron Ralph 
Subject: Re: Texas Memorial Museum demise

Hi Ron,


We tried to make an appointment for Jan.15, but that was in the middle of the 
first week of the semester and she wasn't available.  Mary and I are meeting 
with her and two of her staff on Feb. 3 at 11:30.


We have a Facebook page (facebook.com/SaveTMM) where I will be posting updates 
as they happen.  Currently we have 910 signatures, hoping for 1000, and the 
petition is online at ipetitions/petition/SaveOurMuseum.  Mary was interviewed 
this week by a reporter from the Austin Chronicle, and we hope to see a story 
in the next week or two.


Thanks to you and your group for your help!


Jeri Putnam



From: Ron Ralph ronra...@austin.rr.com
To: jputnam1...@att.net 
Cc: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 1:56 PM
Subject: Texas Memorial Museum demise


Mary,

How did it go giving the petition to Dean Hicke?

Ron

You are receiving this e-mail through the Texas Exes Alumni Directory. Your 
address has not been disclosed to the sender of the e-mail, but has been 
forwarded to you on their behalf. You can update your profile and allow other 
UT grads to contact you at www.texasexes.org/directory.

Dear Ronald, My name is Mary Newcomb, daughter of William W. Newcomb, an 
anthropology professor and Director of the Texas Memorial Museum for many 
years. You may have heard that the College of Natural Sciences will cut all 
funding - $620,000 – to the museum beginning next year. This is a travesty that 
can not be tolerated! My husband and I have started a grassroots effort called 
Save the Texas Memorial Museum. Our goal is to gather many thousand signatures 
on a protest petition and deliver it to Dean Hicke of the College of Natural 
Sciences on Jan. 15, 2014 – the 75th anniversary of the museum’s opening. We 
have a Facebook page and a group on meetup.com, where details of our first 
meeting are. Please “Like” us on Facebook and RSVP on meetup.com. You can sign 
the petition in person at our first gathering, the details of which are on 
meetup.com. Or, we will email you the petition which you can sign and mail back 
to us. Thank you in advance for your support! Kindest regards, Mary Newcomb and 
Jeri Putnam 


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
that seems highly unlikely;  there's a police station two blocks away that's 
more likely a target, and the old middle school, etc.  You don't take down 
buildings to put up parking lots -- you turn parking lots into parking garages, 
and there's still a lot of that to be infilled
k
On Jan 17, 2014, at 3:35 PM, James Jasek wrote:

If this is true there is no way to stop the project. I hope the museum contents 
will be preserved

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp 
andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.commailto:andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com wrote:

Word is that the property the museum sits on is slated to become another 
parking lot.  That's a goo money maker (so close to the stadium).   Who says 
athletics doesn't rob from academics?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Katherine Arens 
ar...@austin.utexas.edumailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu wrote:

Amen to that.  To those of you who are mad you can no longer park free anywhere 
at UT, this is another innovation of the current regime:  our facilities are 
underutilized and need to be charged at current rates.  So the little guys 
get nickled and dimed to death, and the state of Texas loses important 
resources and resource stewardship.  Real Americans pay for their parking, you 
see . . .(how's the parking at AM?)
k

On Jan 17, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Diana Tomchick wrote:

Wouldn't it also be productive to look into a different funding source? Money 
is tight in all areas of academia these days, and especially in the sciences. 
Why not try going straight to the politicians there in Austin, they're the ones 
that control how much money winds up at UT and the College of Natural Sciences?

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: 

texascavers Digest 16 Jan 2014 17:40:23 -0000 Issue 1914

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 16 Jan 2014 17:40:23 - Issue 1914

Topics (messages 23261 through 23275):

radio program
23261 by: Mixon Bill
23264 by: Mark Minton

robot related - not yet caving topic
23262 by: David
23263 by: John Greer

a video of a Mexican cave
23265 by: David

O-9 Well trip report, January 11
23266 by: David Ochel

Neversink frozen winter splendor :
23267 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
23271 by: scott grimes

Bomb In Hays County Cave
23268 by: ryan monjaras

Winter TSA Business Meeting minutes
23269 by: Heather Tucek
23272 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
23273 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

Climbing death
23270 by: Geary Schindel

Artificial gill for cave divers?
23274 by: Lee H. Skinner
23275 by: Lee H. Skinner

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
I didn't manage to persuade my browser to play that radio program on  
attempted body recovery in Bushmansgat. Maybe that's because it sure  
isn't obvious on the page how to do it, or maybe it's because I'm  
using an obsolete version of Safari. But there's a whole book on the  
subject: Raising the Dead, by Phillip Finch, Harper Sport 2008.

 -- Mixon

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone’s feelings unintentionally.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

At 07:11 PM 1/14/2014, Mixon Bill wrote:

I didn't manage to persuade my browser to play that radio program on
attempted body recovery in Bushmansgat. Maybe that's because it sure
isn't obvious on the page how to do it, or maybe it's because I'm
using an obsolete version of Safari. But there's a whole book on the
subject: Raising the Dead, by Phillip Finch, Harper Sport 2008.
 -- Mixon


Instead of streaming the show in real time, it is often 
better to download it and then listen after you have the complete 
file. The first option near the top of the page is download: 
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcast.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/515.mp3. 
You get an MP3 file that should play on any media player. You can 
also download a transcript for a text version: 
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/515/transcript


Mark

At 11:56 AM 1/14/2014, Mark Minton wrote:
Last Sunday on NPR's This American Life the third segment 
was about a famous body recovery in Boesmansgat (Bushmansgat) in 
South Africa. It's a good recounting of the tale of cave diver Dave 
Shaw who discovered the body of a missing diver and vowed to bring 
it out. In the process he died himself. Boesmansgat is one of the 
world's deepest underwater caves. The story is at 
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/515/good-guys, Act 3.


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
9 years and 3 months ago, I posted something about how excited I was to
witness the birth of my daughter and I nicknamed her Cavepearl.  The link
below shows her in a brown vest on a live tv news program broadcast this
morning in Spanish throughout southeast Texas.

https://db.tt/QlkX4RPZ

What was exciting about this, is all of the studio cameraman had been
replaced by real robots.
I took this picture with my phone, while standing behind one of the robots
in the studio of Univision.   All 4 robots were tethered with a cord to a
laptop operated by one geeky looking guy.

I can see clearly now that robots are coming and they will be doing things
we never imagined.  While these robots could not go caving, I can see
something similar to these robots at the NSS Banquet serving cavers their
food, or video-taping the award ceremony, or serving as information kiosk
in the hallways, or helping the vendors with gear sales.

On a related note, the video in the link below is of today's tv segment,
featuring Cavepearl.  ( I could only find it on Facebook. )

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=760312710664416set=vb.239977856031240type=2theater


David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Actually robotic vehicles are being used to explore, map, and photograph tombs 
in Maya-land and other parts of the world -- and cave passages under pyramids 
--  before humans are allowed (or able) to enter. This is different from the 
tube-wire-camera things used to peer under doors, into tombs, sealed caves, and 
(as I have recently done) look back into low areas that humans 

texascavers Digest 14 Jan 2014 16:56:11 -0000 Issue 1913

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 14 Jan 2014 16:56:11 - Issue 1913

Topics (messages 23259 through 23260):

UT Grotto Meeting January 15th
23259 by: Andrea Croskrey

Boesmansgat
23260 by: Mark Minton

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Howdy Texas Cavers!

Kickoff the New Year at the first grotto meeting for 2014! This Wednesday
Guin McDaid and Andy Edwards will be sharing their recent caving exploits.
Guin will share pictures and stories made while looking for caves at Big
Bend Ranch State Park and Andy will be presenting on the latest trip in
Fisher Ridge Cave in Kentucky.  See you there!

We will now be meeting at 7:45pm in *Burdine 136*. Follow this link to a
map of where the building is located on the University of Texas campus:
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org

Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for
happy hour specials. Attendance by cavers varies but this area is the best
place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting.  Then after the
official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene
for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
www.posse-east.com

Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Last Sunday on NPR's This American Life the third segment 
was about a famous body recovery in Boesmansgat (Bushmansgat) in 
South Africa. It's a good recounting of the tale of cave diver Dave 
Shaw who discovered the body of a missing diver and vowed to bring it 
out. In the process he died himself. Boesmansgat is one of the 
world's deepest underwater caves. The story is at 
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/515/good-guys, Act 3.


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

---End Message---

texascavers Digest 9 Jan 2014 16:45:13 -0000 Issue 1911

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Jan 2014 16:45:13 - Issue 1911

Topics (messages 23241 through 23252):

TSS work session
23241 by: Ron Ralph

January Colorado Bend State Park Project
23242 by: Kris Pena

Texas Supreme Court Weighs Underground Trespassing Case
23243 by: Logan McNatt

NCRC Seminar at Colorado Bend in February
23244 by: Kris Pena

Sitting Bull Falls Cave
23245 by: David
23246 by: Jon Cradit
23247 by: Carol Belski
23248 by: texascav...@yahoo.com

Bracken Cave
23249 by: Sam Young
23250 by: Jim Kennedy
23251 by: Harris, Michael

100,000 bats die from heat in Australia
23252 by: Logan McNatt

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Cavers,



Our next scheduled second Wednesday work session of the Texas Speleological 
Survey will be this Wednesday, January 8th, at the JJ Pickle Research Center in 
north Austin. We will be looking through the files for various cave locations 
in Texas, inventorying the Chuck Stuehm collection and working on the museum.  
Come by and help search the files. If you have a desire to search for your own 
data, the files and unpublished maps will be made available.  Both publication 
sales and the library will be open.



Use the front entrance on Burnet Road north of highway 183. The door will be 
open at 5:00 p.m. and stay open till we adjourn. Remember it is best to arrive 
before 6:00 pm and drinks are on me. Parking permits are only necessary during 
the day and evenings are free, so don’t worry about parking tickets.



If you have questions, please contact me at ronra...@austin.rr.com or call my 
cell. I will be happy to send you a link to the map of the Campus if you need 
directions or guide you in from the front gate.



Ron Ralph

Cell: 797-3817
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Remember that the TSA Colorado Bend Karst Project is this weekend.  If the
cold weather kept you away last month, we have good news. *We will be
meeting and staying at the Conference Center.*  The Conference Center gate
should stay locked. The combo to the blue temporary lock is 2287 (spells
BATS on a telephone keypad).  Plan to arrive before 9:30 am Saturday for
the project sign-in.  Kitchen space is limited, so email cbsp@gmail.com if
you want in on group meals for Saturday breakfast, Saturday Dinner, and
Sunday breakfast. Please email if you will be arriving before 9 pm Friday.
Also, remember the TSA Winter Business Meeting and TCMA meetings will be
happening Sunday morning starting at 8 am.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

This headline would certainly catch the eye of most cavers, as it did mine, but 
it's about oil and gas.

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/01/07/texas-supreme-court-considers-underground-trespass/
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I've been asked to send out a reminder that there's an upcoming NCRC Cave
Rescue Training Seminar Levels 1 and 2 at Colorado Bend State Park on
February 8-15.  If you're interested, the deadline to sign up is this
Friday, January 10.  Contact DJ Walker for more information.

Check out the NCRC website for more information:
http://www.caves.org/commission/ncrc/national/
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Seeing all the photos of icicles today, made me recall a very fond memory of
going inside Sitting Bull Falls Cave during a cold spell just like
this one in 1992.

All of the Falls had frozen solid. It was quite a sight to see,
but unfortunately
I did not have a wide-angle lens to capture it.

I would recommend to any caver next time it gets cold like this to go see
that.It would have to coincide when there is a good water flow, but I
do not know how you would find that out.

I found the photo link below, and pretty sure that is it.   It looked
just like this.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6181/6144102731_99bc69e60a_z.jpg

( photo posted by a Jim Gumm )


David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

There are also some great photos of a frozen Gorman Falls from a few years ago 
hiding in the internet.



-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 11:58 PM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Sitting Bull Falls Cave

Seeing all the photos of icicles today, made me recall a very fond memory of
going inside Sitting Bull Falls Cave during a cold spell just like
this one in 1992.

All of the Falls had frozen solid. It was quite a sight to see,
but unfortunately
I did not have a wide-angle lens to capture it.

I would recommend to any caver next time it gets cold like this to go see
that.It would have to coincide when there is a good water 

texascavers Digest 7 Jan 2014 15:50:18 -0000 Issue 1910

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 7 Jan 2014 15:50:18 - Issue 1910

Topics (messages 23231 through 23240):

Re: Bigfoot
23231 by: Gill Edigar

1996 Toyota Tacoma For Sale
23232 by: Benjamin Schwartz

December CBSP Project Trip Report
23233 by: Kris Pena
23239 by: Jerry

Longhorn Caverns Geology Tour
23234 by: Geary Schindel

Off-trail exploration of Wonder Cave
23235 by: ryan monjaras

Caver contacts in Colorado?
23236 by: Bill Bentley

Map of Wonder Cave and more info
23237 by: David

Wonder Cave :
23238 by: Jerry
23240 by: Mark Minton

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
There are similar bear scratches in the back of Midnight Cave near Carta
Valley. No obvious bear-sized entrance into the cave and no bones.
--Ediger


On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

  My sister sent me the following link from the Beaumont paper about the
 resurgence of black bears in East Texas.

 http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Black-bears-come-home-to-East-Texas-4793763.php

 We have them here in Oregon, too. In hard times they wander into the
 outlying areas around Ashland. I don't remember who said it, but keep your
 camps clean and your food hanging high to discourage bears from making
 themselves at home. Just remember, black bears are opportunistic feeders
 who would much rather find their food in the wild than around people.  The
 majority of their diet is vegetation To find out a lot about black bears,
 go to the North American Bear Center site: http://www.bear.org/website/ There
 is a lot on black bear diet on the site today.



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Sad but true folks: I'm selling my wonderful old Toyota truck.

See details below, and send me an email if interested 
(b...@txstate.edu). Feel free to pass this on to anyone in the area who 
you think might be interested. If you are not local (San Marcos +- 50 
miles or so), you would likely need to come and get the truck. I will 
gladly send photos to anyone who would like to see them.


---

For Sale: 1996 4x4 Toyota Tacoma LX, extended cab. 215450 miles. 2.7L 
4-cylinder (perhaps one of the best engines ever built by Toyota), 
Manual 5-speed transmission. ~20 mpg average. Color: Cobalt Blue Pearl. 
Selling to make room for a 4-door more family accessible Tacoma. Asking 
$5,000.


I am the second owner and have owned the truck since 1998 and ~60k 
miles. It comes with many great memories included at no extra charge. 
This vehicle is a great (actually awesome) vehicle for anyone who likes 
to camp out in their truck.


Good Condition: One small spot of rust over left rear wheel well trim, 
few dings (tree branches on tight muddy mtn. roads), minor front bumper 
damage (killed a deer). AC (works well), CD, Cassette, AM/FM, Cruise, 
tilt steering, sliding rear window.


Aluminum Rims. BF Goodrich tires with ~75% tread left. Full size spare 
with good tread. Shocks were replaced at ~180,000 miles.


Repairs made within the last 500 miles: New clutch, new radiator, new O2 
sensors, and new fuel pressure sensor. May need clutch Master and/or 
Slave cylinder replaced at some point. Could use new headlight bulbs.


Extra leaf added to springs at ~100k miles (these vehicles were 
under-sprung if you wanted to carry any reasonable load - so this is no 
longer a problem on this truck).


I had this vehicle checked by Toyota several years ago for a vehicle 
recall related to frame corrosion. The frame is A-OK and was not 
manufactured at the plant which produced the problem frames.


Matching color, locking, 1998 Leonard topper permanently attached to bed 
rails with SS bolts and Silicone caulk for a dust-free and 100% 
waterproof interior (no rattling cap or knee-cap ripping clamps to deal 
with). Interior light and 12V lighter (for power supply in back) 
installed in topper. Sliding window to match rear truck window. Heavy 
duty rubber bedliner/matt included.


Custom built (by me at the CNC machine shop I used to work in), super 
sweet, aluminum bedframe with drop-in plywood panels to allow for easy 
access to things stored under the frame. Bedframe attaches on left side 
and goes on and off with two bolts. It weighs just a few pounds, but 
holds all you can pile on it.


__
Benjamin Schwartz, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor
Department of Biology
Texas State University - San Marcos
206 FAB, Freeman Aquatic Station
601 University Drive
San Marcos, TX 78666
http://www.bio.txstate.edu/~bschwartz/
b...@txstate.edu
office: 1-512-245-7608

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Project Dates: 

texascavers Digest 6 Jan 2014 02:26:32 -0000 Issue 1909

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 6 Jan 2014 02:26:32 - Issue 1909

Topics (messages 23218 through 23230):

Re: Bigfoot
23218 by: Louise Power

Re: black bear remains in Texas caves
23219 by: Logan McNatt
23220 by: Pete Lindsley
23221 by: Gregg Williams

Facebook news
23222 by: David
23223 by: Bill Bentley

Tracking app
23224 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Re: Facebook news (and bears)
23225 by: John Greer
23229 by: John Greer
23230 by: Don Arburn

book review: caves of Meghalaya, India
23226 by: Mixon Bill

Re: Facebook  Bigfoot
23227 by: David

Correction
23228 by: David

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---



My sister sent me the following link from the Beaumont paper about the 
resurgence of black bears in East Texas. 
http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Black-bears-come-home-to-East-Texas-4793763.php
We have them here in Oregon, too. In hard times they wander into the outlying 
areas around Ashland. I don't remember who said it, but keep your camps clean 
and your food hanging high to discourage bears from making themselves at home. 
Just remember, black bears are opportunistic feeders who would much rather find 
their food in the wild than around people.  The majority of their diet is 
vegetation To find out a lot about black bears, go to the North American Bear 
Center site: http://www.bear.org/website/ There is a lot on black bear diet on 
the site today.




  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

David et al.,

Refer to your copy of /50 Years of Texas Caving*:/  the section on Bones, pp 279-285.  Bones of black bear (/Ursus americanus /sp.) have been 
found in numerous Texas caves.  Not surprising because historical accounts mention that there were a great many of them during the 1800s, 
especially in the Edwards Plateau/Hill Country, and in far west Texas. In addition to those already mentioned on the list, here are a few more 
examples, certainly not all:


(edited excerpts from /50 Years/):
Edwards County is especially noted for the numerous sites with remains 
of /Ursus americanus/, the once common black bear . . .
In 1956, Ken Baker found black bear bones in Saltillo Cave . . .
In 1963, cavers including Pete Lindsley and Preston McMichael collected a black bear skull and bones from Deep Cave . . .  (photo by 
Pete on p. 284)

In 1967, Kunath found black bear bones in Cardiac Cave . . .

Also, around 1995, Colorado Bend State Park staff discovered the articulated remains of 2 black bear (mother  cub?) in Cicurina Cave (San Saba 
County).  They brought out the adult skull, but the rest of the remains were washed away in a major flood event before they could be recovered.

And in the late 1990s, Bill Stiver recovered a black bear skull from one of the 
caves on his former ranch in Kimble County.

In addition to bones, numerous claw marks of one or more bears are evident in the upper boneyard levels of Deep and Blowhole caves, scratched 
into the soft limestone.  One can imagine the roars echoing through the cave as the unfortunate bear(s) try to climb up the vertical walls, in 
the total darkness, in vain.


*Don't have a copy of /50 Years of Texas Caving/?  You don't know what you're missing.  You will be amazed how many of your questions about 
Texas caves, cavers, cave bears, and other subjects you haven't even thought about can be answered in the 526 pages.

Contact Carl Kunath in San Angelo at carl.kun...@suddenlink.net
 orLogan McNatt in Austin at lmcn...@austin.rr.com

Logan


On 1/4/2014 10:28 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
I agree with Andy that the marks David mentioned are likely from a bear. I've seen such marks in several caves in Virginia and West 
Virginia, often quite far from any known entrance and also not associated with any bones. We've also found large wallows in mud floors that 
are said to be where bears slept. These signs seem to be more common than I would have imagined.


The marks Steve mentioned in Powell's are likely from a raccoon. We found marks like that several places in Honey Creek, also far from 
any known entrance. Of course it doesn't take much of an entrance for a raccoon, as opposed to a bear...


Mark

At 11:05 AM 1/4/2014, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:

Bear?   I've found bear bones in SA caves and there was even a sighting in a 
local park a few years back.


At 10:42 AM 1/4/2014, Steve Keselik wrote:
Some years back in Powell's cave we were hoping to find a shorter route to the stream passage via the maze. We didn't find any dig sites that 
looked 

texascavers Digest 4 Jan 2014 17:14:51 -0000 Issue 1908

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Jan 2014 17:14:51 - Issue 1908

Topics (messages 23210 through 23217):

Re: Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
23210 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
23211 by: texascav...@yahoo.com

Bigfoot
23212 by: David
23213 by: Steve Keselik
23214 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
23215 by: Mark Minton
23216 by: Bill Bentley
23217 by: vivbone.att.net

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Thanks, Jon!

Mark, by sheer dumb luck, somehow managed to send this from his Virgin Mobile 
Android-Powered Device

- Reply message -
From: Jon Cradit jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: Mark Alman texascav...@yahoo.com, texascavers@texascavers.com 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
Date: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 4:18 PM
Mark,
I would like to thank you for all you have done for the last several years.  
Being the coordinator between the TPWD, the concessionaire, and the cavers and
scout groups.  You have done a bang-up job.
Let me raise a Blind Salamander beer in toast to you.

Jon Cradit




From: Mark Alman [mailto:texascav...@yahoo.com]


Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 3:54 PM

To: texascavers@texascavers.com

Subject: [Texascavers] Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset








Merry Christmas and Happy 2014, y'all!





I have had a few inquiries as to the status of the Longhorn Caverns SP Project.





At this point, I have decided to put it in the Completed or, at least, On 
Hiatus state of things.





The TPWD folks, the concessionaire at the park, and the project folks had a to 
do list at the park and, to the best of my knowledge, all have been completed.





This past spring, the TPWD crews did a superb job on repairing the dangerous 
trail areas in the cave, replacing and, in some cases, installing new handrails,
repainting other handrails, and an excellent job of cleaning up after 
themselves. This, after switching all of the lighting in the cave from 
incandescent to LED the winter and spring before.





The Project had a
very long laundry list and it has been completed, as well, except for 
additional mapping in the back areas of the cave, near the Crownover entrance. 
This entrance still remains inaccessible, due to a new landowner and 
permissions to access the cave via
this passageway have yet to be resolved. 





Hopefully, someday, the additional survey points and data collected by the 
various surveys will be added to the Longhorn Caverns map and we will have a 
completed
and thorough idea of the total length and lay of the cave! I would love to be 
able to present this completed map to the park, someday!





Highlights of the Project leader list include improvements and restoration of 
the Lovers Lane area, and removal of dead fall, cedar, and other unsightly 
underbush
in the sinkhole near the Visitors Center, and pushing leads in the Lumbago 
Alley section. Numerous other smaller projects were completed and I'd rather 
not list them all or bore you with them here.





Some of the folks I would like to thank, in no particular order, are:  Lyndon 
Tiu, Gerry Geletzke, Natasha Glasgow, Daniel Ramirez, Bill Larson, Edwin Lehr,
George-Paul Richman, Mallory Mayeux, Andrew Alman, Allison Alman, Chris Franke, 
Leslie Bell, Jim Sheets, and a cast of hundreds of others who have come out to 
help and my feeble memory can't recall!





Some of the groups I'd like to offer a HUGE thank you are the Aggie 
Speleological Association and the Greater Houston Grotto. 





The Aggies, especially, were the hardest working, most enthusiastic, and 
hardest partying bunch I have ever been associated with and the success of this 
project,
Pre and Post ICS, would not have been possible without their participation! 





Finally, I would like to thank ALL of the Boy Scout Troops that have come out 
to volunteer and to camp. They performed a huge service to the park,plus, a 
BUNCH
of new youth received their first taste of caving and many have gone off to 
become more involved.





(Why more cavers prefer to NOT work with Scout and other youth groups is beyond 
me! They are a great resource of labor and deep pool of potential new cavers.
Refusal to work with them has puzzled me for 18 years and y'all know who you 
are!)





In closing, to all of you who have come out to help on the project since 2008, 
either for just one weekend or for several weekends, I salute and thank you! 





I will always remember the fun times, hard work, evening meals (at the Park or 
at The Bluebonnet Cafe in Marble Falls), and the stargazing and camaraderie up
in 

texascavers Digest 3 Jan 2014 22:27:10 -0000 Issue 1907

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 3 Jan 2014 22:27:10 - Issue 1907

Topics (messages 23205 through 23209):

Re: NSS luminary talks
23205 by: PRESTON FORSYTHE

Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
23206 by: Mark Alman
23207 by: Lyndon Tiu
23208 by: Jon Cradit
23209 by: Natasha Glasgow

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
These talks have become a convention highlite for us and are not to be missed. 
But, if you did the downloads will be entertaining and educational.

Thank you Geary.

Preston





 From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 12:45 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] NSS luminary talks
 

I've finally gotten around to watching downloads of the three hour-long 
luminary talks given at the NSS convention last summer. This is a series of 
lectures organized for the first time in 2012 by Geary Schindel. I recommend 
all six of them. Instead of spending a lot of time binging on The Walking 
Dead or some such, download them from

https://secure.caves.org/luminaries/index.shtml

In theory they are in the members only secure area on the NSS web site that 
you have to log in to from the home page at caves.org, but it seems that the 
URL above works for anybody. It only takes a couple of minutes each to download 
the MP4 files, except for Dwight Deal's, which takes longer. The web site 
claims it's ~100 MB like the rest, but the file is actually 487 MB. Don't try 
to run more than one download simultaneously; the NSS server does not deal well 
with that.

From a strictly entertainment point of view, those by Roger Brucker and Texan 
Dwight Deal are probably best, but all have a lot of interesting history of 
caving and the NSS. -- Mixon

Bigamy is having one wife too many. So is monogamy.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Merry Christmas and Happy 2014, y'all!

I have had a few inquiries as to the status of the Longhorn Caverns SP Project.

At this point, I have decided to put it in the Completed or, at least, On 
Hiatus state of things.

The TPWD folks, the concessionaire at the park, and the project folks had a to 
do list at the park and, to the best of my knowledge, all have been completed.

This past spring, the TPWD crews did a superb job on repairing the dangerous 
trail areas in the cave, replacing and, in some cases, installing new 
handrails, repainting other handrails, and an excellent job of cleaning up 
after themselves. This, after switching all of the lighting in the cave from 
incandescent to LED the winter and spring before.

The Project had a very long laundry list and it has been completed, as well, 
except for additional mapping in the back areas of the cave, near the Crownover 
entrance. This entrance still remains inaccessible, due to a new landowner and 
permissions to access the cave via this passageway have yet to be resolved. 

Hopefully, someday, the additional survey points and data collected by the 
various surveys will be added to the Longhorn Caverns map and we will have a 
completed and thorough idea of the total length and lay of the cave! I would 
love to be able to present this completed map to the park, someday!

Highlights of the Project leader list include improvements and restoration of 
the Lovers Lane area, and removal of dead fall, cedar, and other unsightly 
underbush in the sinkhole near the Visitors Center, and pushing leads in the 
Lumbago Alley section. Numerous other smaller projects were completed and I'd 
rather not list them all or bore you with them here.

Some of the folks I would like to thank, in no particular order, are:  Lyndon 
Tiu, Gerry Geletzke, Natasha Glasgow, Daniel Ramirez, Bill Larson, Edwin Lehr, 
George-Paul Richman, Mallory Mayeux, Andrew Alman, Allison Alman, Chris Franke, 
Leslie Bell, Jim Sheets, and a cast of hundreds of others who have come out to 
help and my feeble memory can't recall!

Some of the groups I'd like to offer a HUGE thank you are the Aggie 
Speleological Association and the Greater Houston Grotto. 

The Aggies, especially, were the hardest working, most enthusiastic, 

texascavers Digest 31 Dec 2013 06:47:56 -0000 Issue 1905

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 31 Dec 2013 06:47:56 - Issue 1905

Topics (messages 23193 through 23197):

22nd International Karstological School: Karst and Microorganisms
23193 by: George Veni

conference on cave micro in Slovenia
23194 by: Mixon Bill

for speleo-gamers
23195 by: David

NSS luminary talks
23196 by: Mixon Bill

Self and Small Party Rescue Webinar January 9th @ 6 PM Pacific
23197 by: Matt Bowers

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Dear Friends,

For the past 21 years the Karst Research Institute of Slovenia has offered 
excellent training on a wide variety of karst topics. This year promises to be 
no different. See the announcement and website below for more information. 
Please feel free to forward this message to anyone who may be interested.

Wishing you a happy, safe, and healthy 2014 on behalf of everyone at the 
National Cave and Karst Research Institute,

George

P.S.: NCKRI's offices remain closed until 2 January.




Dear colleague!



You are cordially invited to participate at the 22nd International 
Karstological School CLASSICAL KARST: Karst and microorganisms from 16 to 20 
June 2014 in Postojna, Slovenia.



The topics of this year's School are:

- Microbial diversity in the underground

- Geomicrobiology and ecological interactions in caves

- Microbes and natural processes in the underground

- Underground eutrophication

- Caves as a source of new subterranean species of microbes

- Microbes in caves related to biohazard



Registration is possible only online and will be open from 15 February until 30 
April 2014.
The registration fee is 125 EUR and includes printed materials for the school 
and excursions, refreshments during coffee breaks and attendance at the evening 
reception. The registration fee for students is 25 EUR.



Abstracts in English are submitted at the registration.



More information is available at http://iks.zrc-sazu.si



Janez Mulec

Organizing Committee

Karst Research Institute ZRC SAZU

Titov trg 2

SI-6230 Postojna

Slovenia

T: +386 5 700 1900

F: +386 5 700 1999

E: i...@zrc-sazu.simailto:i...@zrc-sazu.si


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.orgmailto:gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.orghttp://www.nckri.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Forwarded by Mixon:


Dear colleague!

You are cordially invited to participate at the 22nd International  
Karstological School “CLASSICAL KARST”: Karst and microorganisms  
from 16 to 20 June 2014 in Postojna, Slovenia.


The topics of this year's School are:
- Microbial diversity in the underground
- Geomicrobiology and ecological interactions in caves
- Microbes and natural processes in the underground
- Underground eutrophication
- Caves as a source of new subterranean species of microbes
- Microbes in caves related to biohazard

Registration is possible only online and will be open from 15  
February until 30 April 2014.
The registration fee is 125 EUR and includes printed materials for  
the school and excursions, refreshments during coffee breaks and  
attendance at the evening reception. The registration fee for  
students is 25 EUR.


Abstracts in English are submitted at the registration.

More information is available at http://iks.zrc-sazu.si

Janez Mulec
Organizing Committee
Karst Research Institute ZRC SAZU
Titov trg 2
SI-6230 Postojna
Slovenia
T: +386 5 700 1900
F: +386 5 700 1999
E: i...@zrc-sazu.si



Bigamy is having one wife too many. So is monogamy.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I am not a gamer, but according to Google News, this is news.

The video game, The Cave, is now free to download if you are using
Android, and are willing to download it from the Amazon App page,

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Fine-Productions-The-Cave/dp/B00H8WCPE2/ref=sr_1_1?s=mobile-appsie=UTF8qid=1388422841sr=1-1keywords=the+cave

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/A18mf-5CdQL.png
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I've finally gotten around to watching downloads of the three hour- 
long luminary talks given at the NSS convention last summer. This is  
a series of lectures organized for the first time in 2012 by Geary  
Schindel. I recommend all six of them. Instead of spending 

texascavers Digest 27 Dec 2013 00:07:10 -0000 Issue 1903

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 27 Dec 2013 00:07:10 - Issue 1903

Topics (messages 23184 through 23188):

Various topics
23184 by: David

Re: Paradise Canyon Caving
23185 by: Jerry

Zoology related
23186 by: David

Santa Claus likes armchair cavers ?
23187 by: David

Florida cave diving fatalities
23188 by: Louise Power

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
I had a wonderful time at the Annual Texas Caver's Winter Solstice Party (
ATCWSP )

Johanna's macaroni was awesome.

I slept out under the stars, and except for a little cold Hill Country dew,
it was a most pleasant experience.

Everybody was nice to me, and I met cavers that I did not know, and saw
some I had not seen in years.

I will try to add this to my annual routine.   It was truly awesome to be
able to celebrate something that my pre-biblical ancestors celebrated.  My
bet is, this was celebrated 60,000 generations ago.

Cavers sat around the fire, and the weather was perfect for that.  Others
did the traditional sauna/hot-tub/campfire chat.  Some of us got a private
tour of the greenhouse which was full of orchids.

I would like to also thank Ernie, for bringing me some extra camping gear,
that I had stashed at his place.

You all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.   2014 should be my
best year ever, but 2013 will be the 5th worst of 49.

Come to Houston and ride our 13 mile train, and stop by for a taco.

Hopefully, I can make a Kiwi Cave Dig soon, and will see some of you there.

David Locklear
2506 Keene St.  Apt. # 1
Houston, TX 77009

281-995-8487
( text-line )
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Okay .  This really sounds like something that could be handled off the 
list serve.

Jerry.


-Original Message-
From: Julie Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com
To: Julia Germany germa...@aol.com
Cc: gille gi...@att.net; kmenking kmenk...@bcad.org; Texascavers 
Texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 23, 2013 6:11 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon Caving



Hey J2, what a Bee-atch!! Do u just drop old friends and run away? You've not 
gone caving w me, u always found a reason not to! 
U r a lying witch, a user of men and a cheat, dishonest in so many respects and 
u owe me several hundred dollars!
So even though you've blocked me, the word is out about Julia Germany, Do Not 
Trust Her!

On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:44 PM, Julia Germany germa...@aol.com wrote:



 Just before TCR, on this listserv (or maybe it was the TCR FB page), I 
commented that with no water, we could easily cross the river bed and do 
exactly what Kurt is doing and I was told that we were not allowed on the 
property on the other side.  

Kurt - who owns that property and did you get their permission?  I really want 
to come play with y'all.  Feel free to answer those questions privately.  I am 
available those dates

Also, I am off 13 Dec-02 Jan, so anyone out there reading this, let me know of 
any upcoming trips.

Thanks!
julia germany

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Gill Edigar gi...@att.net
To: Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org
Cc: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon Caving


Yall please be aware of histo (and other lung fungus) being present in those 
little dry, dusty, windless caves. Also soft ticks that carry Lime (type) 
Diseases and Relapsing Fever. 
--Ediger




On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:


I have set up a trip for November 22-24 to search for and map any caves in the 
cliff across from Paradise Canyon.  During TCR Myself, Fran Hutchins, and Rob 
Bissett, surveyed a 120’ long cave I found several years ago.  There are 
numerous shelters visible, some of which I’ve checked out that have differing 
amounts of passage that needs to be surveyed and maps made.  There are also 
many more that I’ve never been to. 
 
I’d like to have enough cavers for 4 or 5 teams to divide up and take on 
specific areas.  I’d like to have 2 or 3 teams tackle the high leads that most 
likely will require rope work to reach the entrances.  Plus I’d like to have at 
least 2 teams do a thorough inventory of the lower cliff.
 
Camping will be available Friday-Sunday.  We’ll have the place to ourselves, 
and the bathrooms, and showers will be functional.  My wife plans to make group 
meals Saturday Morning  Evening, and Sunday morning.  We’d like to collect $5 
each to cover the food costs.  I’ll send out more info on the food as we get 
closer to those who have let me know they are coming. 
 
Please let me know if you want to come so we can have enough food.
 
Bring your survey 

texascavers Digest 12 Dec 2013 21:28:33 -0000 Issue 1897

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 12 Dec 2013 21:28:33 - Issue 1897

Topics (messages 23153 through 23160):

Jacob's Well
23153 by: David
23156 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
23158 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
23159 by: Gill Edigar
23160 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

6th International Workshop on Ice Caves: Call for Papers
23154 by: George Veni
23155 by: Julia Germany

Karst geoscience post-doctoral grant
23157 by: George Veni

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
The Houston Chronicle web-site published an article today that sounded
like it was written by a middle-schooler making their first book report on their
swimming trip to Jacob's Well.

Describing the geology of the cave, it stated, the well was formed as
part of an underground aquaflow system.

The article came across as an interview with a diver, Don Dibble, who
seemed to be familiar with only part of the cave. (  I presume this is
the same person that owns The Dive Shop in San Marcos. )

The article read like an invitation for thrill-seekers to come out and swim
in the cave and free dive down to the gate.Meaning there wasn't
any information about conservation or cavers related to the article.
 There was no mention of where the water comes from, or where it goes,
or the critters that live in the water.

The article was about cave-diving, yet not a single photo or video
attached to the
article was about cave-diving. There was no map or sketch explaining to the
a reader ( who you have to presume is aimed at people unfamiliar with
underwater caves ) as to what the author means by one of the longest
underwater systems in Texas.

The Houston Chronicle has become a laughing stock of journalism and an
embarassment to southeast Texas.   I have given up hope of ever
finding anything credible in its articles..

I have also become very disgruntled with the way the media overall is
behaving.I am officially boycotting Time Magazine.

For what it is worth, the AMCS Activies Newsletter is one of the best
things to read on the planet.   And the NSS News, is also high on my
list of favorite things to read.   I wish
I had more spare time to enjoy them.

David Locklear

Ref:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/One-of-the-world-s-most-dangerous-dive-sites-is-5055541.php?cmpid=hpfc#photo-5585236
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---



Jacob's Well. 



Ah,yes. To see what is beyond the gate, you should read Jacob's Well by Stephen 
Harrigan . Those cavers that I hired to work on the Texas Natural Areas Survey 
(which helped get Devil's Sinkhole, the Lower Canyons, Mt. Livermore, Devil's 
River, Big Bend Ranch State Park, Enchanted Rock, and other places set aside in 
the Public Domain) will recognize slightly-disguised cavers and their 
colleagues from the70s. Not only is Dwight Deal the heroic (although flawed) 
model for the geologist, you can recognize parts of Ronnie Fieseler, Tom Byrd, 
and Ron Ralph, Gary Moore, and certainly remember the Lady Archaeologist who 
did field work in the nude. 



DirtDoc 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The swimming area is closed to the public while they figure out what to do 
about the car-sized rock that is now hanging precariously over the well shaft.  
Bummer for us Sunday morning freedivers as well as those neoprene-clad bubble 
blowers.



 
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com



On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 5:48 PM, dirt...@comcast.net 
dirt...@comcast.net wrote:
 


Jacob's
Well.
 
Ah,yes. To see what is beyond the gate, you should read Jacob's Well by Stephen
Harrigan.  Those cavers
that I hired to work on the Texas Natural Areas Survey (which helped get
Devil's Sinkhole, the Lower Canyons, Mt. Livermore, Devil's River, Big Bend 
Ranch
State Park, Enchanted Rock, and other places set aside in the Public Domain) 
will
recognize slightly-disguised cavers and their colleagues from the70s. Not only
is Dwight Deal the heroic (although flawed) model for the geologist, you can
recognize parts of Ronnie Fieseler, Tom Byrd, and Ron Ralph, Gary Moore, and 
certainly
remember the Lady Archaeologist who did field work in the nude.
 
DirtDoc---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Make the rock smaller.
--Ediger


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp a...@gluesenkamp.comwrote:

 The swimming area is closed to the public while they figure out what to do
 about the car-sized rock that is now hanging precariously over the well
 shaft.  Bummer for us Sunday morning freedivers as well as those
 neoprene-clad bubble blowers.



 Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
 700 Billie 

texascavers Digest 11 Dec 2013 16:40:55 -0000 Issue 1896

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 11 Dec 2013 16:40:55 - Issue 1896

Topics (messages 23147 through 23152):

Re: [SWR] Jewel Cave
23147 by: Mark Minton

Jewel Cave
23148 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Link to NSS Bookstore Holiday Greetings
23149 by: Jacqueline Thomas

CBSP December Project This Weekend
23150 by: Kris Pena

Google Street View related
23151 by: David

Re: 2013 Conservation Activities Needed
23152 by: Geary Schindel

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--
---BeginMessage---
  Nice article, but the author isn't very good at math:

Austin, 29, and the team, found the first of 2,047 new feet of unexplored
cave passage � over two-thirds of a mile.

2047 feet is less than half a mile!

Mark

On Sun, December 8, 2013 11:45 am, Lee H. Skinner wrote:
 If you have trouble with Dwight's link, try this one:
 http://tinyurl.com/nzbft8c  -Lee

 Jewel Cave

 A rather nice article on Jewel Cave today (Sunday 8 Dec 2013) in the
 Rapid City Journal.

 http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/jewel%20cave%20article%20-%20rc%20journal%20dec%208%202013.pdf?auth=coloc=en_USid=640314part=2

 DirtDoc

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Most of the readers aren't either -- 

(I wonder if their grammar is as good as mine?) 

DirtDoc 

- Original Message -
From: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net 
To: s...@caver.net, texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2013 11:03:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Jewel Cave 

Nice article, but the author isn't very good at math: 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
All,
The flyer from the NSS Bookstore is now on the TSA Homepage: 

http://www.cavetexas.org/ Click on the thumbnail for a larger image. Below the 
thumbnail is a link to the NSS Bookstore.

Butch Fralia very kindly set this up so I wouldn't have to send it out on the 
remailer. Thanks, Butch! Jacqui

 ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The next Colorado Bends State Park Project is this weekend. There's no
better place to spend a cold Saturday than below ground!

Most cavers show up Friday evening and camp out.  All survey teams will be
organized and sent out of camp by 9:30 a.m. Saturday morning.  Camping is
again available on Saturday evening with the possibility of more caving on
Sunday morning.

If you have your own Garmin GPS, please bring it so that you have an easier
time finding the caves.

For more information check out the project info
sheethttp://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/CBSP/TSA_CBSP_project_info_sheet%202013.pdf
or
the schedule on the TSA calendar http://cavetexas.org/calendar/index.php.

Feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

Kris Peña and Will Quast
TSA-CBSP Project Coordinators
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I am sure this is old news, but I thought I would post it for those in
Texas that don't
have time to follow everything on the web.

You can now drive thru the town of Bustamante ( on the main road only
) up to the entrance of the canyon virtually on the internet, using
Google Maps.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Bustamante,+Nuevo+Leon,+Mexicohl=enie=UTF8ll=26.533251,-100.52516spn=0.050298,0.077162sll=31.168934,-100.076842sspn=12.298661,19.753418oq=Bustamante+Nuet=hhnear=Bustamante,+Nuevo+Le%C3%B3n,+Mexicoz=14layer=ccbll=26.534663,-100.528917panoid=4KXfVF0FB-65ETsPCkZP1wcbp=12,292.12,,1,0.05

On a related note, it will also let you drive through nearly every
road of the border towns, except inside of restricted areas like
Boystown.   ( I haven't heard of any cavers going there in 20 years )

In the fall of 84, I accompanied 5 other inexperienced Aggie cavers to
Bustamante.  All the knowledge amongst us that we had about Mexico was
a crude hand-drawn map in a Texas Caver issue, of the border-town of
Nuevo Laredo. Texas cavers today have access to a wealth of
information on how to plan their road-trip into Mexico, and additional
border-crossings, and better gasoline, than we had.Yet when was
the last organized trip to Grutas del Precipico or Minas Viejas by
cavers from Texas ?

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


2013 Conservation Activities Needed

The NSS needs your input. Each year the NSS must file an application
with the Combined Federal Campaign (CFC) in order to qualify to be
listed in the CFC donation database. The hardest part of the
application is to document the nationwide NSS Conservation activities.
Please take just two or three minutes and send Scott Fee (scottfee at
bellsouth dot net) an email that includes the following:

1) State the activity took place
2) Closest City or the County
3) 2013 Date (Prefer month, day and year)
4) Very Brief description.

Example: California, 

texascavers Digest 8 Dec 2013 18:00:24 -0000 Issue 1895

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 8 Dec 2013 18:00:24 - Issue 1895

Topics (messages 23140 through 23146):

underground rights
23140 by: Mixon Bill

Re: NSS Flyer
23141 by: Gill Edigar

Jewel Cave
23142 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Re: [SWR] Jewel Cave
23143 by: Lee H. Skinner

Jewel Cave article
23144 by: Mixon Bill

Re: Interested in helping
23145 by: Mixon Bill

Follow-up on the NGS Film: Mystery Caves Of Guangxi
23146 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

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--
---BeginMessage---
Actually, the case I was thinking of _was_ in Kentucky in 1929:  
Edwards v. Sims 232 Ky. 791, 24 S.W.2d 619 (1929). The question was  
really whether neighboring landowner should be permitted to survey  
Great Onyx Cave to verify whether or not it went under his land, but  
the assumption was that if it did, he could forbid showing that part  
of the cave. Appears to be a famous case; Google finds 324,000 hits  
for Edwards v Sims. I have a photocopy of the appeals court  
decision, including a dissent, that is pages 58 to 63 in some unknown  
(to me) book. The dissent argues that, although indeed one owns the  
land and everything under it to the center of the earth, that  
ownership really only applies to things that the owner can make use  
of. A cave without an entrance on his land wouldn't count. But the  
majority of the appeals court ruled the other way.


No doubt other similar cases have arisen from time to time. -- Mixon

Work is the curse of the drinking class.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Post the flyer on the TSA webpage and post the link on CaveTex.
  --Ediger


On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Jacqueline Thomas jlrtho...@verizon.netwrote:

 All,
 I've received a flyer from the NSS Bookstore. I know some of us do not
 have newsletters and I think it missed any pre-Christmas Caver so I would
 like to post it to this list.

 I do not want to post it on the list without checking with everybody
 because it will likely come through as an attachment of 323 KB.

 Will that severely upset anyone for any reason? Jacqui
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Jewel Cave 



A rather nice article on Jewel Cave today (Sunday 8 Dec 2013) in the Rapid City 
Journal. 



http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/jewel%20cave%20article%20-%20rc%20journal%20dec%208%202013.pdf?auth=coloc=en_USid=640314part=2
 



DirtDoc ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
If you have trouble with Dwight's link, try this one: 
http://tinyurl.com/nzbft8c  -Lee


Jewel Cave

A rather nice article on Jewel Cave today (Sunday 8 Dec 2013) in the 
Rapid City Journal.


http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/jewel%20cave%20article%20-%20rc%20journal%20dec%208%202013.pdf?auth=coloc=en_USid=640314part=2

DirtDoc



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Thanks, Dwight, and especially Lee for the tiny URL that actually works.

But I wouldn't call it a nice article on Jewel Cave. Any article that  
quotes Mike Wiles about geology pretty much automatically isn't. --  
Mixon


Work is the curse of the drinking class.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
In a later message, Alfonso wrote that he will principally be in  
Mexico City area. I've suggested he contact Ramón Espinasa or Gustavo  
Vela. Any other pointers would I'm sure be appreciated. -- Mixon


Begin forwarded message:

From: Alfonso Abad alfons.a...@gmail.com
Date: December 7, 2013 6:29:39 PM CST
To: a...@amcs-pubs.org
Subject: Interested in helping

Hi, I am a member of the NSS in Arizona but will be in mexico for 6  
months or just about. In AZ I helped to map a couple of caves. I am  
looking to do something similar while I am in Mexico. I am originally  
from Mexico city and speak English and Spanish fluently. If you can  
give me information about this i will appreciate it.


Thanks

Alfonso Abad

-Alfonso

Sent from my Nexus 4



Work is the curse of 

texascavers Digest 6 Dec 2013 16:38:55 -0000 Issue 1893

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 6 Dec 2013 16:38:55 - Issue 1893

Topics (messages 23119 through 23126):

Cave B ?
23119 by: David

Bexar Grotto Christmas Party
23120 by: Geary Schindel

Bizarre microbes discovered in desert cave in Arizona
23121 by: Lee H. Skinner

TCMA election results are in!
23122 by: Bennett Lee

Re: election results
23123 by: David

Dates for TSA Spring Cionvention: Saturday, May 3 and May 4, 2014
23124 by: caverarch

New Huautla Cave Diving Expedition video online
23125 by: Terry Holsinger

Winter Tech TOMORROW
23126 by: Carol Belski

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--
---BeginMessage---
Hard to believe that was nearly 20 years ago.

Was there not a pre-convention trip to Grutas de Carrizal ?

On the subject of Emerald Sink, it is possible that cavers could visit the
first level of the cave without worry, as I think 7 cavers went past the
Junction Room in 94 to look down the drop in Emerald Sink and none of them
reported being sick.  They were probably underground less than 2 hours and
would not have been doing anything too strenuous to be taking deep breaths.

The pit is the kind of rappel you would only want to do, if you did not
have access to any other 140 foot, or just wanted to bop it once so you
would know what is down there.  Meaning it is boring compared to other 140
foot pits.

The question I have, is what would it take to pump the bat urine out of the
sump and haul out the dirt and rocks and guano.  That would make the cave
at least a few deeper.   There is probably several thousand years of guano
in the sump, from a colony of 500 bats, very near the sump.

Is there a good map of the sump ?   Diving in bat urine sounds sporting,
but I do not recall the diver mentioning anything about guano.

While I am ranting about guano, does anyone know any aquarium hobbyist
using a pinch of guano under the roots of their aquarium plants ?

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Folks,



The Bexar Grotto is holding their annual holiday (Christmas) party on Saturday, 
December 14 from 6 pm onward. All grotto members, cavers, and friends are 
welcome. This is a pot luck so bring a dish. I'll also have the grill going. 
There will also be a white elephant gift exchange so if you would like to 
participate, bring an appropriate gift - camo thongs were real popular last 
year. If you want to come early, we'll put you to work helping get the house 
ready.



Couple of rules about the party. If you bring a tray or find one from last 
year, please take it home with you. All the white elephant gifts also need to 
go home. Also, if you don't think you can drive home or are coming from a long 
distance, we have lots of room and you're welcome to spend the night. We'll 
even fix you breakfast (leftovers from the party - last year it was potato 
chips off the carpet).



So, come on over for a great time, don't block the neighbor's driveways and 
STAY OFF THE ROOF.



Geary and Sue Schindel

11310 Whisper Dawn

San Antonio, Texas

210.479.2151
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

from NBC News:

A team of researchers led by scientists at the University of Arizona in 
Tucson discovered communities of microorganisms that live in the 
limestone caves of Kartchner Caverns State Park 
http://www.livescience.com/37682-assassin-bug-species-discovery.html. 
These microbial ecosystems thrive by teasing out the limited nutrients 
in water runoff that drips into the cave through cracks in the cave's 
rocky exterior, the researchers said.


Full story at:

http://tinyurl.com/lchcp5o

Lee Skinner
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
TCMA election results are in!

Saj Zappitello and John Brooks were both reelected.  We are glad to have their 
continued service on the board.

We would also like to welcome Bill Bentley to the TCMA board.  He has been an 
avid caver and TCMA member for decades, and we look forward to the 
contributions he can make to the board.

I want to note that the race was very close.  Denise Prendergast also ran and 
was only 5 votes away from being elected.  Your votes count!  For those of you 
missed voting, you could have swung the election.  And even though this 
election is over, there are still many ways that you can contribute.  
Organizations like the TCMA can only exist with the support of people like you, 
so get involved!

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The Board would greatly benefit with Denise involved.

I am not a TCMA member, so I can't make a motion, but if she wants to be on
the Board, then someone should appoint her.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


After consultation within 

texascavers Digest 4 Dec 2013 16:11:18 -0000 Issue 1892

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Dec 2013 16:11:18 - Issue 1892

Topics (messages 23114 through 23118):

Jill, do you received my email,
23114 by: Espeleo Coahuila

Environmental Action: Digging and Looting
23115 by: R D Milhollin

UT Grotto Meeting December 4th
23116 by: Andrea Croskrey

Bat and basketball
23117 by: caverarch

histo after 1994 NSS convention in Texas
23118 by: Mixon Bill

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--
---BeginMessage---
LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ

Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS

Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS

Directora de MP- Mex Caving

Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)

Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)

Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)

Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)

Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)

Texas Speleological Association (Socia)

Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Texas Cavers, this message was posted for New Mexico caver Lynda Sanchez and 
regards the commercial glorification of digging in culturally sensitive areas 
by amateurs without professional guidance or supervision; obvious implications 
for caves in nature preserves and parks.

Good morning all..hype and shame on NGS (read below).   For those of you 
who are concerned by this new trend on the NGS Channel go to the following link 
and sign the petition to ask NGS Channel to stop their hype and pull programs 
such as Diggers!  That program alone has created more unintended consequences 
(called looting and digging on federal and state lands) of our heritage than 
just about any others.  The National Conference of State Historic Preservation 
Officers and the World Congress of Archaeology have signed on as have dozens of 
other organizations and concerned folks.
 
Several Cavers have already signed, but in view of this email trail perhaps 
some of the rest of you will sign as well. Check out the details and if you 
have additional questions let me know.  Thanks.
Lynda
 
 
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-national-geographic-channel-the-travel-channel-spike-tv-stop-airing-their-digger-programs-3?utm_source=guidesutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=petition_created---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Howdy Texas Cavers!

Many Texas cavers ended up in Texas because of the easy access to amazing
caves in Mexico. At this week's grotto meeting we have UT Grotto member
Oscar Berrones sharing his most recent caving adventure to caves in the
mountains near his hometown of San Luis Potosi, Mexico.  As a bonus, Oscar
takes great pictures so this should be a presentation not to miss!

We will now be meeting at 7:45pm in *Burdine 134*. Follow this link to a
map of where the building is located on the University of Texas campus:
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org

Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for
happy hour specials. Attendance by cavers varies but this area is the best
place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting.  Then after the
official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene
for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
www.posse-east.com

Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I got the following note from a non-caver Vandy fan friend in the South on 
watching a game this weekend:


I'm watching the Texas vs. Vanderbilt basketball game and a bat is loose in 
the stadium in Austin and keeps circling the heads of the players each time 
they set up for free throws!


The announcers, to their credit, knew all about the Austin bat population and 
the Congress Avenue Bridge and have been educating sports fans around the world 
on the bats of Austin!


Roger Moore













---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

http://www.ajtmh.org/content/60/6/899.full.pdf

The paper identifies the caves as Cave A and Cave B. Obviously  
Cave A is Emerald Sink near Langtry. Anybody know what Cave B is? --  
Mixon


Work is the curse of the drinking class.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---

texascavers Digest 27 Nov 2013 04:20:58 -0000 Issue 1890

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 27 Nov 2013 04:20:58 - Issue 1890

Topics (messages 23104 through 23106):

The current weather related to Texas caves
23104 by: David

Tienkengs
23105 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Re: [SWR] Tienkengs
23106 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

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--
---BeginMessage---
I was thinking that this cold weather is a fine time to go down in places
like Kiwi Sink and look for some warm blowing air.Right ?

Would newly opened cracks in Kiwi Sink blow warm air this week ?

David Locklear

Ref:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110326191631AAHFotV
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


Tienkengs 



National Geographic - Mystery Caves Of Guangxi 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYn-DeQjL8 



A production of the National Geographic Channel in conjunction with Chinese 
television CCTV-9 



I have been asked to provide some clarification for the US caving community 
about the use of the term tiankeng. As many of you know, I have been leading 
karst-focused tours for geologists and cavers and have first-hand knowledge of 
Chinese karst since 1993. The cavers staring in the film have clearly had a 
wonderful time in a spectacular area courtesy of National Geographic. The film 
does a good job of explaining the area to the general public, and conveying the 
wonder and excitement of exploring the karst of SW China. 



This is a spectacular and interesting film. It is also contains some 
unnecessary (in my opinion) exaggeration and self-promotion from National 
Geographic. Anyone in the caving community who has been to the spectacular 
karst areas of China recognizes the hyperbole. National Geographic seems either 
to have done a poor research job (unlikely) or made a deliberate decision to 
add additional mystery and danger to some of the most spectacular karst on 
Earth. These are clearly world-class caves. 



Cave scientists have understood how these huge pits are created for over a 
hundred years. First described from the Dinaric Karst, known in China since 
1992, explored in China by the Cave Research Expedition in 1993 (that was 
before the Funny Word tienkeng had been coined), and explored extensively in 
China by the Hong Meigui Cave Exploration Society (Erin Lynch) since 2001, the 
British Cave Research Foundation , and others. These large limestone pits have 
been found all over the world. 



Simply, they are unusually large collapse dolines. They become large when there 
is a good-sized underground river to keep extracting the breakdown blocks that 
fall underground. In this part of China there is stratigraphically over 7 miles 
(total thickness) of soluble limestone, high topographic relief, and it rains a 
whole lot to produce the groundwater that dissolves the limestone. Fracture 
traces in the limestone likely relate to the specific location of these pits, 
just as they do for millions of other cave passages around the world. 



The public perception and misunderstanding about tienkengs has been caused by 
prominent Chinese geologist who arbitrarily made up the word tienkeng (Sky 
Hole or Heavenly Pit) for exceptionally large collapse dolines. He defined them 
as collapse dolines that are more than 100 wide and deep. This is a completely 
arbitrary term. It is just like using the word skyscraper for tall buildings 
and megabuilding for the very tallest one. Then you can claim that you city 
has the only megabuilding in the world. It has allowed the Chinese to make a 
Big Deal out of the fact that they do, indeed, have a lot (more than 50) 
impressively gigantic collapse dolines in their country. 



There are numerous references to these large pits in China that have been 
written over the last 20 years, some accurate, some with included hyperbole. 
Here is where to start: 



Tiankengs: Definition and Description, 2006, Zhu Xuewen and Tony Waltham 

http://www.speleogenesis.info/directory/karstbase/pdf/seka_pdf9541.pdf 

This is a summary paper that concludes: 

The concept of tiankeng karst has been considered within China as a term to 
describe an extremely mature type of karst landscape that has matured beyond 
normal fengcong karst with high relief. The term could be used to describe the 
Leye karst in Guangxi, China, and perhaps the Nakanai karst in New Britain, 
Papua New Guinea, both of which are distinguished by unusually large numbers of 
tiankengs. However, some mature karst terrains contain just a few tiankengs, 
notably just two in each of the karsts of Xingwen, Croatia and Mexico, and 
these question the applicability of the term. Tiankeng karst may be purely 
descriptive of the Leye and Nakanai terrains, but the 

texascavers Digest 24 Nov 2013 21:39:44 -0000 Issue 1889

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 24 Nov 2013 21:39:44 - Issue 1889

Topics (messages 23089 through 23103):

sinkhole related
23089 by: David

Re: Paradise Canyon Trip
23090 by: mark gee
23092 by: Logan McNatt

Re: Colorado Bend State Park Project Report for November
23091 by: mark gee

TCMA Election Underway
23093 by: R D Milhollin

Cave rescue
23094 by: Bill Steele
23095 by: Bill Steele
23098 by: PRESTON FORSYTHE

Government Canyon caving
23096 by: Marvin and Lisa
23097 by: Jim Kennedy
23099 by: Chris Vreeland

Re: Government Canyon Trip Report
23100 by: Logan McNatt
23102 by: Gill Edigar

texas caver september
23101 by: Jill Orr

Re: Cave Rescue Saturday Night -- PRIVATE
23103 by: Geary Schindel

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--
---BeginMessage---
Check out how excited people in Houston get when a sinkhole opens up here.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/sinkhole-causing-problems-in-west-houston/-/1735978/23107834/-/qi4gr0z/-/index.html
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Yall have fun! Find the big one up on that cliff side.




On , Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:
  
If you intend to use a cabin bring your own sheets and towels. 

Sent from my iPhone 

On Nov 22, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:

 

The owner opened up all 6 cabins for our use. Each one has 3 beds. Kitty and 
claim one the others are available.  Come on out.  

 

Sent from my iPhone 

On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:01 PM, Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:

 
 


I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people.   
Saturday  Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be provided.  Saturday 
evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring 
your own plate, utensils and cups.  Anyone interested in coming this weekend 
or even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head 
count and can make arrangements to get you in the gates.  

 
It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and 
or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB or drink of 
choice.   

 
We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday.  Please call 
for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving before that 
time.   

 
See you folks this weekend.  
Kurt  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hopefully by now Kurt has shown them The Caves of Medina County, TSS publication III (1), edited by James Reddell and published in 1967, where 
Orion Knox and Barbara Madden reported brief descriptions of Paradise Canyon Shelter No. 1 and No 2.  They found them while on a picnic at 
Paradise Canyon, July 4, 1961!   There is also reference to a very interesting lead reported by a hydrogeologist in 1956.



On 11/22/2013 6:11 PM, mark gee wrote:

Yall have fun! Find the big one up on that cliff side.


On , Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:
If you intend to use a cabin bring your own sheets and towels.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org 
mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:



The owner opened up all 6 cabins for our use. Each one has 3 beds. Kitty and 
claim one the others are available.  Come on out.


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:01 PM, Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org 
mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:



I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people.   Saturday  Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be 
provided.  Saturday evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring your own plate, utensils and cups.  Anyone 
interested in coming this weekend or even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head count and can make arrangements 
to get you in the gates.


It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB 
or drink of choice.


We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday.  Please call for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving 
before that time.


See you folks this weekend.
Kurt





---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Good job Kris, past CBSP caver.




On Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:59 PM, Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com 
wrote:
  
Kris, thanks for sending the trip report to the list.  You described fire ants 
(Ants in the Pants Cave); very small, tight entrances, cracks, crevices, and 
passages; and bad air.  Yet y'all were able to relocate several caves, update 
GPS locations, check out 

texascavers Digest 22 Nov 2013 21:22:04 -0000 Issue 1888

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 22 Nov 2013 21:22:04 - Issue 1888

Topics (messages 23079 through 23088):

November CBSP Project Trip Report
23079 by: Kris Pena
23081 by: Terry Holsinger

RE :Spring Creek   Cave kayaking
23080 by: Patrick Olsen

Re: NSS related
23082 by: Herman Miller

Scheduling the TSA Spring Meeting
23083 by: caverarch

Mars related
23084 by: David

Re: Colorado Bend State Park Project Report for November
23085 by: Logan McNatt

Re: Paradise Canyon Trip
23086 by: Kurt L. Menking
23087 by: Kurt L. Menking
23088 by: Kurt L. Menking

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Project Dates: November 9 - 10

Volunteers: Kris Peña, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill, John Young, Angela Young,
Bryce Smith, Fernando Hernandez, Westin Green, Leah Woods, Yvonne Reyes

Total Hours: 73 hrs work time + 46 hrs drive time = 119 volunteer hours


Summary:

In all 10 people split over 3 teams comprised the November Colorado Bend
Project weekend. We had several Project newbies including 4 members from
ASS and John and Angela Young, who have previously caved with Bexar Grotto.
The weather was beautiful with clear days in the 70s and cool nights. Alvis
and Dawn Hill from the Friends of Colorado Bend were kind enough to join us
and take Kris all over the park identifying holes that they’d found in
their work trail building. They’re doing great work out there! Team 2 went
out to re-GPS some caves in Gorman North and dig at the end of Porcupine
Cave. They pushed it past the terminus of the existing map and a future
team will have to be sent out to finish the survey. Team 3 headed out to
Lively to reconcile conflicting data for Crippled Deer Cave and Cow Bone
Cave. Both were located and the data was updated. They were also able to
push a promising lead in Crippled Deer Cave that is not currently on the
map. A new team was formed Sunday morning to attempt to push further. They
made some additional progress, but were stopped by bad air. A team should
be sent at later day to reassess the air and survey if possible.


Full Trip Reports:

Team 1

Names: Kris Peña, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill

Time Out: 1000

Time In: 1700

Total hours: 21 hrs

Objectives: Meet with Alvis and Dawn from the Friends of CBSP and compare
projects; and investigate caves found on previous trail building trips

Report:

Kris drove down from camp to meet up with Alvis and Dawn Hill, two of the
leaders of the Friends of Colorado Bend State Park. They met up with Kelby
Bridwell, park superintendent, and headed out the Spicewood Canyon trail to
investigate a small crack that had been discovered earlier in the year. On
the way, Alvis pointed out a previously unmarked sink on the side of the
trail and Kris recorded the GPS location. Upon arriving at their main
objective, Kris slid down into the tight entrance crack to investigate and
found a very small, but diggable drain at the bottom and A LOT of fire
ants. As she worked her way out the entrance, Alvis and Dawn were kind of
enough to dispatch some of the ants that had decided to hitch a ride. That
cave could use a 1 shot survey and a very small caver to try and push the
lead at the bottom. It is tentatively named Ants in Your Pants Cave.

They then proceeded to check out several caves Alvis and Dawn had noticed
in their trail building work and to compare them with the current GPS data.
Kris was also excited to take a look at one of their in-progress trails.
The team first stopped at a vertical cave. That cave was confirmed to be
SAB 214 (Butch Fralia’s Cave). The GPS showed three caves nearby, so the
team fanned out in search of those and any other holes. They identified SAB
669 (Baby Maze Cave) and SAB 215 (Unnamed Cave), small holes within earshot
of one another. Kris then circled around a few times searching for SAB 678
(Two-Shot Fissure). Once located and corrected in the GPS, Alvis and Kris
took a quick look inside and it lived up to its name.

They then continued on with a short stop at SAB 210 (Fern Pit), an
impressively large pit in an open clearing, and another stop at SAB 285
(Unnamed Cave) a particularly tight fissure crack that bells out after 10
feet, before starting back. They made one more stop at SAB 673 (Guadalupe
Cave) and corrected the GPS location before returning to their vehicles.
None of the caves visited had visible tags, so a future team will need to
be sent out to tag.  This area proved to be a beautiful section of the park
and it will be exciting to see the completed trail once the Friends of CBSP
have finished their work. Once their main objectives were finished, Kris
took the Hills over to Sweet Cave 

texascavers Digest 21 Nov 2013 20:18:11 -0000 Issue 1887

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 21 Nov 2013 20:18:11 - Issue 1887

Topics (messages 23072 through 23078):

Re: A look at Caverns newly discovered room
23072 by: Pete Lindsley

In Quest of the Rim of Hell
23073 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Re: Karst Abstract Opportunities @ S. Central GSA - Fayetteville - deadline 
approaching!
23074 by: Julia Germany

SWR Winter Tech Reminder
23075 by: Carol Belski

Spring Creek Cave invitation for Dec. 14th trip
23076 by: Speleosteele.aol.com

Cave kayaking
23077 by: Nancy

NSS related
23078 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Two short videos on the new room in Carlsbad...

Begin forwarded message:

From: Karen Lindsley karen4ca...@gmail.com
Date: November 19, 2013 1:57:55 AM MST
To: Lindsley Pete caverp...@gmail.com
Subject: A look at Caverns newly discovered room

I saw this story on KRQE.com and wanted to share it:

A look at Caverns newly discovered room

Tourists in southeastern New Mexico are getting their first glimpse at the 
newest discovery at Carlsbad Caverns National Park.

http://j.krqe.com/zvf94
http://www.krqe.com/news/local/new-room-discovered-in-carlsbad-caverns---End Message---
---BeginMessage---




I have seemingly exhausted most other possibilities and so I ask the august 
body of older Texas Cavers if one of you might have either an arcane memory and 
an actual hard or digital copy of something from the late 60s. This DOES have a 
tie to Texas caves and cavers, albeit a bit tangential. Less so that other 
topics that drive folks away from this forum. At least this involves Real 
Cavers and an almost-real cave (at least it is a collapse into one that once 
was: Terlingua Sinkhole). 



The quest: For a copy of a movie titled  Rim Of Hell . 



This may have been filmed on 16 mm film, I am not sure. It was written and 
directed by Frank Dobbs (of later greater fame, including Lonesome Dove and a 
series of later movies filmed in the Lajitas-Terlingua area); Mike Cusack 
Producer and Cinematographer (also of Greater Fame). 



This was filmed sometime around 1966-1968 in Terlingua, and involved at least 
three cavers: Ring Huggins, Bill Wright, and Fred Meyer, at that time caving 
with the Sul Ross Cave Club. The story I have from Ring and Fred, told and 
retold over the years and repeated to me last week in Terlingua (with only 
slight variations): Ring was the Snake Wrangler who, after innumerable tries 
finally succeeded in pissing off a reasonably-sized rattled enough to strike at 
him; Fred and Bill were technical support who tried to get the actors to 
rappel into Terlingua Sink, without success. You gotta be kidding!, the 
actors said. 



The story I hear is that Fred then successfully got the cinematographer down to 
the bottom of the sink (Mike Cusack), and Bill was recruited on the spot as the 
stunt double to rappel so he could be photographed from below. Bill rappelled 
in, zipping down the rope as was his normal fashion, to the horror of the 
producer and director. They made both Fred and Bill climb out and do it a few 
more times in a much more hesitant and unsure fashion. Geeze! You're supposed 
to be SCARED! 



This is not to be confused with the later film Disciples of Death (distributed 
at least in part under the title Enter the Devil in 1972), by the same 
producer and director. I have a poor copy of that: a VHS which is supposed to 
have been made from a 16-mm version that I digitized (if anyone is interested) 
some time ago. That was a Grade Z horror movie filmed at the old Waldron Mine 
shortly after Glen Pepper started to develop the Villa de la Mina and is fun to 
watch for those that knew the Villa in the early daze. That's when the alter 
was built in the big room in the mine but before Glen had built much of the 
outbuildings and guest quarters. Now-historic images of the old steel bridge on 
the county road, the gas pump (then still functional) at the Lajitas Trading 
Post, Brewster County Courthouse, and more. 



Sandy and I actually watched what was claimed to be the world premier of 
Disciples of Death at a drive in movie theater in San Antonio. Backed Tortuga 
One in, honky chairs and a cooler. A Hoot and a half-!. 



I have copies of more than 10 films made using some locations in the 
Terlingua-Lajitas area and would like to add this (supposedly that first one, 
but not sure I believe that). Includes Uphill all the Way (great fun with Roy 
Clark, Mel Tillis, Glen Campbell, Burl Ives), John Sayles' 1996 movie Lone 
Star; as well as Dead Man’s Walk and Streets of Laredo, which were part of the 
Lonesome Dove series, part of Kenny Rogers The 

texascavers Digest 19 Nov 2013 16:08:26 -0000 Issue 1886

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 19 Nov 2013 16:08:26 - Issue 1886

Topics (messages 23056 through 23071):

Re: Never go to Mexico- Kurt Caselli killed in Baja 1000
23056 by: Jim Kennedy
23057 by: Frank Binney
23059 by: Sheryl Rieck
23060 by: Ted Samsel
23061 by: Nico Escamilla
23062 by: Joe Ranzau
23063 by: Ted Samsel

Bringing caving to the masses
23058 by: Lee H. Skinner

Re: Journal of Hydrology: Regional Studies – new open access journal coming 
soon
23064 by: Julia Germany

Off-topic, for Austin area cavers:  The Wildest Dream, Everest documentary film 
tonight 7 pm
23065 by: Logan McNatt

UT Grotto Meeting November 20th
23066 by: Andrea Croskrey

Caving in Mexico is fun
23067 by: David

Interesting clip on Indiana Caverns
23068 by: Louise Power

Winter Solstice Celebration
23069 by: pstrickland1.austin.rr.com

Tom Iliffe receives Smithsonian appointment :
23070 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

Discover Texas Dinosaurs at Fossil Fest!
23071 by: Julia Germany

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Tragic and sad, but not really a reason to stop going to Mexico.

 

-- Jim

 

 

From: Jon [mailto:cavefa...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:31 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Fw: Never go to Mexico- Kurt Caselli killed in Baja
1000

 

 

FYI ...

  
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/Off-road/2013/November/
nov1613-kurt-caselli

KTM rider Kurt Caselli has lost his life while competing in the 
famous Baja 1000 race through Mexico's Baja California peninsula, 
after sustaining serious injuries while leading the 883 mile long race.

Early and unconfirmed reports indicate that the thirty year old hit a 
manmade booby trap at the 796-mile marker of the course. Sabotage to 
the rugged and remote off road course is common by spectators, who 
dig jumps and obstacles to provide more exciting viewing.

The widely liked American made his debut in the Dakar Rally last 
year, impressing from the off by winning two stages of the tough 
SouthAmerican race in his rookie year to finish 31st overall.

Caselli had said in the press conference after qualifying that 
winning the Baja was one of his big remaining goals. Baja has always 
been on my list. A win (by KTM) is something that's not just myself 
but a lot of other people have wanted to see it for a long time, and 
I will be very happy if I can be a part of that. I'm not trying to 
take any glory. I just want to be able to say that I was part of a 
winning team.

Motorcycle News sends our deepest condolences to Kurt's family and 
friends. He will be sorely missed. 




---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
This has given me reason to swear off competing in 883 mile long motorcycle
races!


On 11/17/13 7:37 AM, Jim Kennedy cavercr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Tragic and sad, but not really a reason to stop going to Mexico.
  
 -- Jim
  
  
 
 From: Jon [mailto:cavefa...@yahoo.com]
 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:31 AM
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: [Texascavers] Fw: Never go to Mexico- Kurt Caselli killed in Baja
 1000
  
 
  
 
 FYI ...
 
   
 http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/Off-road/2013/November/no
 v1613-kurt-caselli
 
 KTM rider Kurt Caselli has lost his life while competing in the
 famous Baja 1000 race through Mexico's Baja California peninsula,
 after sustaining serious injuries while leading the 883 mile long race.
 
 Early and unconfirmed reports indicate that the thirty year old hit a
 manmade booby trap at the 796-mile marker of the course. Sabotage to
 the rugged and remote off road course is common by spectators, who
 dig jumps and obstacles to provide more exciting viewing.
 
 The widely liked American made his debut in the Dakar Rally last
 year, impressing from the off by winning two stages of the tough
 SouthAmerican race in his rookie year to finish 31st overall.
 
 Caselli had said in the press conference after qualifying that
 winning the Baja was one of his big remaining goals. Baja has always
 been on my list. A win (by KTM) is something that's not just myself
 but a lot of other people have wanted to see it for a long time, and
 I will be very happy if I can be a part of that. I'm not trying to
 take any glory. I just want to be able to say that I was part of a
 winning team.
 
 Motorcycle News sends our deepest condolences to Kurt's family and
 friends. He will be sorely missed.
 
 
 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I agree it is no reason to never go to Mexico. Things like this happen even
here.  It is horrible.

Sheryl
---End 

texascavers Digest 17 Nov 2013 15:30:46 -0000 Issue 1885

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 17 Nov 2013 15:30:46 - Issue 1885

Topics (messages 23051 through 23055):

A cave photo
23051 by: David

Backwoods Outdoor Store in Austin and Dallas
23052 by: Preston Forsythe

September Texas Caver
23053 by: Jill Orr

internet related
23054 by: David

Re: Never go to Mexico- Kurt Caselli killed in Baja 1000
23055 by: Jon

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
I do not know anything about Instagram, but here is a new photo posted
there taken by a well known cave photographer.

http://instagram.com/p/gn3p8-RbaK/
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
A note on this Backwoods gear store. While in Boulder, Colorado in August I 
made my first stop at Neptune Mountaineering. My opinion is that Neptune is 
the best outdoor gear store in the country. Formerly owned by Gary Neptune, 
who has climbed Everest and more. Top of the line gear! I was surprised to 
see that this company, Backwoods, had purchased Neptune. Backwoods has 
maintained Neptune almost the same as it was including the museum items on 
the walls from famous climbs around the world. Gary still owns those items. 
I had never heard of  Backwoods, showing how little time I have been in 
Texas in recent years. But, Backwoods is a big outfit, 8 stores in TX, OK, 
Neb. and KS. Other than a grocery store, a gear store is about the only 
store I like to shop in my limited world. So how does the Austin Backwoods 
compare to say the REI? This is just a general gear question and really not 
meant to favor one vendor over the other as I shop and buy something from 
almost all of them, but, hey, Neptune is the top of the heap, and Backwoods 
kept the name Neptune Mountaineering on their new Boulder store.


Cavingly,

Preston in Outer Browder, KY a place not known for it's gear stores other 
than my basement. 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Texas Cavers: 

The Caver is extremely late this issue due to many circumstances that came
up,  both personal and printer related. The printer shorted us about 25
issues that should have been labeled, and getting the replacements took a
couple of weeks. An attempt to pass the labeled issues at the TCR didn't
happen, and I'm working on sorting the labeling mess I'm left with. Thank
you for your understanding and patience. 

 

In the mean time  - the December issue needs articles. 

Jill

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
If you watch the video in the link below, you will see a caver trying
to make a living
putting caves on the internet so that anyone in the world can take a virtual
tour of that cave from the comfort of their home.

http://www.boston.com/business/2013/11/13/bringing-caving-the-masses/OmHRp3pkmmfGhXm2S5g1YO/story.html
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


FYI ...


  
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/Off-road/2013/November/nov1613-kurt-caselli

KTM rider Kurt Caselli has lost his life while competing in the 
famous Baja 1000 race through Mexico's Baja California peninsula, 
after sustaining serious injuries while leading the 883 mile long race.

Early and unconfirmed reports indicate that the thirty year old hit a 
manmade booby trap at the 796-mile marker of the course. Sabotage to 
the rugged and remote off road course is common by spectators, who 
dig jumps and obstacles to provide more exciting viewing.

The widely liked American made his debut in the Dakar Rally last 
year, impressing from the off by winning two stages of the tough 
SouthAmerican race in his rookie year to finish 31st overall.

Caselli had said in the press conference after qualifying that 
winning the Baja was one of his big remaining goals. Baja has always 
been on my list. A win (by KTM) is something that's not just myself 
but a lot of other people have wanted to see it for a long time, and 
I will be very happy if I can be a part of that. I'm not trying to 
take any glory. I just want to be able to say that I was part of a 
winning team.

Motorcycle News sends our deepest condolences to Kurt's family and 
friends. He will be sorely missed. ---End Message---

texascavers Digest 12 Nov 2013 22:11:17 -0000 Issue 1883

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 12 Nov 2013 22:11:17 - Issue 1883

Topics (messages 23037 through 23041):

TSS Work Session
23037 by: Ron Ralph

Brief Update on Work on the New NSS Property and Office at Huntsville
23038 by: Preston Forsythe

Google+ for cavers
23039 by: David

Paradise Canyon caving trip
23040 by: Kurt L. Menking

Lost Oasis Preserve Clean-up this Sunday
23041 by: ryan monjaras

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Cavers,



Our next scheduled second Wednesday work session of the Texas Speleological 
Survey will be this Wednesday, November 13th, at the JJ Pickle Research Center. 
We will be looking through the files for various cave locations in Texas, 
inventorying the Chuck Stuehm collection and working on the museum.  Come by 
and help search the files. If you have a desire to search for your own data, 
the files and unpublished maps will be made available.  Both publication sales 
and the library will be open.



Use the front entrance on Burnet Road north of highway 183. The door will be 
open at 5:00 p.m. and stay open till we adjourn. Remember it is best to arrive 
before 6:00 pm and drinks are on me. Parking permits are only necessary during 
the day and evenings are free, so don’t worry about parking tickets.



If you have questions, please contact me at ronra...@austin.rr.com or call my 
cell. I will be happy to send you a link to the map of the Campus if you need 
directions.



Ron Ralph

Cell: 797-3817
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Good Morning Cavers in Texas and Other Places--


Work on the new NSS property at Huntsville, AL is progressing with volunteer 
work every weekend. Here is an example. The Birmingham Grotto the past two 
weekends installed a new green enviro metal roof on the outdoor pavillion. This 
pavillion will no doubt receive a lot of use at many future caving events 
including SERA and the NSS National Convention in 2014. The BG purchased all of 
the roofing material ($3,000 plus) and supplied all of the labor (around 18 
volunteers the first weekend and 14 volunteers the second weekend). 

That is an example of what your grotto could do! Hope you can participate.

This coming weekend a new self-leveling floor will be poured for the new 
library and archieves room, approx. 50 ft. x 120 ft. Very expensive filing 
cabinets, accordian style sometimes seen in medical offices, have been 
purchased at a fraction of the new cost. This filing-bookshelf system requires 
a level floor. I bet volunteers already have over 125 man hours of prep time of 
work in that new library. 

Maureen Handler is the volunteer coordinator. Please contact Maureen if you or 
your grotto want to contribute.

Handler, Maureen
tnshot...@earthlink.net

I know it is a long drive from Texas, and other places, to Huntsville, Alabama, 
but some work sessions at Huntsville are several days long making the time and 
distance a very worthwhile satisfying trip.


Cavingly,


Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY only 4 hours, one way, from Huntsville.---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Please ignore this if you hate Google.

Google+ now lets users have a custom URL.

Mine is:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+DavidLocklearofTexas/about


If a caver is managing a page for a caving organization, he or she can
now add a new type of manager.This person has the power
to help manage the post on the the page, but is not allowed to
make changes to the page.That is a good idea, and further increases
its lead over Facebook's version in functionality.

I have not had time this year to follow all the new quirks of Google+.

Google does not seem to be giving up on the idea, so there is maybe
still hope for it yet.   I am content to use both Facebook and Google+,
but I do not think most people are willing to do that.   I am clueless
about the other social things going on on the web, meaning whatever
the young people are supposedly doing.   I can't find any use for
Twitter, and haven't had time to explore the others.

My 9 year old daughter loves her Android tablet, so my guess is that
all that stuff will make sense to her in the very near future.I think I
had to create a Google account for her so that she could access all
the apps and YouTube stuff.   I have not had a chance to see if that
was such a good idea.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/106745323215963190758/115224409657532359034/about

Please email me privately, if you have any sound advice on that
subject.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The Paradise Canyon trip is still on for the weekend of Nov 22-24.  The good 
news is,  I have plenty of folks signed up to help, but the bad 

texascavers Digest 10 Nov 2013 20:41:12 -0000 Issue 1882

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 10 Nov 2013 20:41:12 - Issue 1882

Topics (messages 23029 through 23036):

CBSP November Project This Weekend
23029 by: Kris Pena

Re: Fall TSA Business Meeting Minutes
23030 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

Ezell's Cave
23031 by: Ron Ralph

WNS Fungus Persists in Caves Even Without Bats
23032 by: Mark Minton

Re: Paradise Canyon Caving
23033 by: Gill Edigar
23034 by: Julia Germany

Bat news
23035 by: Lee H. Skinner

Reminder: Call for Papers Winter Tech
23036 by: Carol Belski

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
This is a reminder that the Colorado Bend State Park Project kicks off
again this weekend.

Most cavers show up Friday evening and camp out.  All survey teams will be
organized and sent out of camp by 9:30 a.m. Saturday morning.  Camping is
again available on Saturday evening with the possibility of more caving on
Sunday morning.

If you have your own Garmin GPS, please bring it so that you have an easier
time finding the caves.

For more information check out the project info
sheethttp://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/CBSP/TSA_CBSP_project_info_sheet%202013.pdf
or
the schedule on the TSA calendar http://cavetexas.org/calendar/index.php.

Feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

Kris Peña and Will Quast
TSA-CBSP Project Coordinators
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
A TSA business meeting that lasted only 18 minutes !  That must be a record.

Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2013, at 8:02 AM, Heather Tucek trog...@cavechat.org wrote:

 Salutations, all!
 
 The minutes from the fall TSA Business Meeting that convened at TCR this year 
 are now online for your viewing pleasure.
 
 tp://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2013-10-20_TCR_Business_Meeting.pdf 
 (Direct Link)
 
 
 -h
 
 -- 
 Go find out!
 -Heather Tuček
 UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
 TSA Secretary  Membership Chair
 NSS 59660
 (512) 773-1348
 trog...@cavechat.org
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Cavers,

Last reminder for Cave Maintenance day at Ezell’s Cave Preserve.

Ron

Cavers, we need your help!  The Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) will 
be sponsoring a work day to spruce up the Ezell’s Cave Preserve in Hays County. 
 We plan to prune limbs, cut weeds, haul off junk, and just generally make the 
property more attractive.  We need people, saws, loppers, weed eaters, gloves, 
and maybe even someone with a trailer willing to carry all the debris to the 
landfill.  Bring your own drinks and snacks for the work, but TCMA will treat 
all volunteers to pizza and drinks afterward. We will have water and litter 
bags for your use.



The date is Saturday, November 9, 2013 beginning at 9:00 am.  Meet at the 1500 
block of Brown Street, San Marcos.  Cell number for the day: 512-797-3817 (Ron 
Ralph).



If anyone wishes to enter the cave after the work is completed, the Preserve 
Manager has agreed to that.  All visitors to the Preserve will be asked to sign 
a liability waiver. Please give Ron a call if you get lost or would like more 
details.



Thanks for your support!



Jim Kennedy, TCMA Preserves Chair

512-663-2287



Directions to Ezell’s Cave Preserve

Roughly 1500 Brown Street



If coming in on IH 35 from the north or south, take exit 202 (Wonder World) and 
turn west passing the Valero and over the railroad tracks.



At the traffic light, turn right on Hunter Road or FM 2439 (north), then left 
on Dixon (across from Jack’s Road House), then jog right on Blevin and go past 
the Habitat for Humanity houses that back up to TCMA property.



Turn left at the next street (Clara) and left again at the next intersection 
(Brown).



Ezell’s Cave Preserve is the first jungle on the left.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Bad news for bats:  the fungus that causes white-nose 
syndrome persists in caves even in the absence of bats as 
hosts: 
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-bat-fungus-20131101,0,4407067.story#axzz2jVrXaAFH.


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Yall please be aware of histo (and other lung fungus) being present in
those little dry, dusty, windless caves. Also soft ticks that carry Lime
(type) Diseases and Relapsing Fever.
--Ediger


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Kurt L. Menking kmenk...@bcad.org wrote:

  I have set up a trip for November 22-24 to search for and map any caves
 in the cliff across from Paradise Canyon.  During TCR Myself, Fran
 Hutchins, and Rob Bissett, surveyed a 120’ long cave I found several years
 ago.  There are numerous shelters visible, some of which I’ve 

texascavers Digest 6 Nov 2013 20:26:36 -0000 Issue 1881

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 6 Nov 2013 20:26:36 - Issue 1881

Topics (messages 23020 through 23028):

Re: Palmito
23020 by: Diana Tomchick
23021 by: Nico Escamilla

NSS BOG meeting changes
23022 by: George Veni

NSS-CDS Cave Diver Training: A Brief Overview,  by Jim Wyatt (NSS#56713) - 
Autoforwarded
23023 by: Geary Schindel

Fall TSA Business Meeting Minutes
23024 by: Heather Tucek

Paradise Canyon Caving
23025 by: Kurt L. Menking

Evil malware at large
23026 by: Louise Power

NSS Recognizes Our Veterans!
23027 by: NSS Announcements

various topics, some very personal
23028 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
What prompts you to think there is a need for restoration in Palmitos?

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)







On Nov 4, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote:

 I think the restoration project needs to be resurrected. Thoughts?

 Nico




UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Theres still graffiti to be removed and while there may not be as much
trash as there used to theres still some scattered stuff here and there

Nico

El martes, 5 de noviembre de 2013, Diana Tomchick escribió:

 What prompts you to think there is a need for restoration in Palmitos?

 Diana

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 Diana R. Tomchick
 Professor
 University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
 Department of Biophysics
 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
 Rm. ND10.214A
 Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
 Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
 214-645-6383 (phone)
 214-645-6353 (fax)







 On Nov 4, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote:

  I think the restoration project needs to be resurrected. Thoughts?
 
  Nico


 

 UT Southwestern Medical Center
 The future of medicine, today.


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Dear Friends,

If you attending the National Speleological Society's Board of Governors 
meeting this Saturday and plan to attend either the Friday evening and/or 
Saturday evening party, please go the following link: 
http://www.caves.org/region/swr/docs/Fall 2013 NSS BOG Registration 
formV2.pdfhttp://www.caves.org/region/swr/docs/Fall%202013%20NSS%20BOG%20Registration%20form.pdf

This PDF is the registration form but also contains information about the 
meeting and parties. Unfortunately, we just learned that the party locations 
need to be switched. The Friday evening party will now be hosted by Pat Seiser 
and the Saturday evening party by Danielle Stewart, instead of the other way 
around as previously announced.

Also, there is a $20 fee to cover the food costs for both parties (of course 
there is no fee for attending the Board meeting). If you will be attending only 
one party, you only need to pay $10.

We apologize for the confusion. Please share this information with anyone who 
may be interested or affected.

Thank you,

George


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Here is a post on an upcoming webinar.

Geary Schindel

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 3:11 PM, National Speleological Society Inc. 
national_speleological_societ...@mail.vresp.commailto:national_speleological_societ...@mail.vresp.com
 wrote:
[http://img-ak.verticalresponse.com/social_sharing/social_sharing.placeholder.facebook.png]http://cts.vresp.com/fbl?72f40e3255/26c4a56d42/http%3A%2F%2Fhosted-p0.vresp.com%2F272190%2F72f40e3255%2FARCHIVE%23like

[http://img-ak.verticalresponse.com/social_sharing/social_sharing.placeholder.twitter.png]http://cts.vresp.com/ts?72f40e3255/26c4a56d42/http%3A%2F%2Fapi.addthis.com%2Foexchange%2F0.8%2Fforward%2Ftwitter%2Foffer%3Ftemplate%3D%257B%257Btitle%257D%257D%2B%257B%257Burl%257D%257D%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fhosted-p0.vresp.com%252F272190%252F72f40e3255%252FARCHIVE%26shortener%3Dbitly%26title%3DNSS-CDS%2BCave%2BDiver%2BTraining%253A%2BA%2BBrief%2BOverview%252C%2Bby%2BJim%2BWyatt%2B%2528NSS%252356713%2529

texascavers Digest 5 Nov 2013 15:13:11 -0000 Issue 1880

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 5 Nov 2013 15:13:11 - Issue 1880

Topics (messages 23014 through 23019):

Re: Li- ion cordless drill battery
23014 by: Pete Lindsley

New cave snail species found in Croaria
23015 by: Lee H. Skinner

[ I need help ]
23016 by: Don Arburn

UT Grotto Meeting November 6
23017 by: Andrea Croskrey

Palmito
23018 by: Nico Escamilla

Re: Sale of US Post Office Buildings around the U.S.
23019 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
You can also have your batteries rebuilt. A 36V Hilti NiCad battery rebuild 
costs about $108 via the internet, and I found a local Interstate Battery store 
that said they would do it for ~$80. An 18 V battery would run half that. 
Li-ion batteries are more expensive (if you can even find a rebuilder) and they 
take a special charger.

(I am using a Hilti hammer drill with tapered bull pins for digging projects 
here in NM. But if you get a cheap one off the internet count on it needing a 
new battery soon.)

 - Pete

On Nov 3, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Tom Rogers wrote:

Don't dispose of your bad cordless batteries. Take them apart and you can 
harvest 5- 10 18650 batts of which one or two might be shorted out.  I had 
three bad 18 volt batts. Now I have more caving batteries  than I can keep up 
with. Someone with more electrical knowledge might even be able to fix the 
cordless batteries, which was my original intention. Till I discovered that 
they were filled with 18650's. 
Tom

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/clearly-new-snail

Lee
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Cavers, due to unforeseen circumstances I must move out of my ranch house, in 
Bee County, by Friday. I am moving from there to my home in South San Antonio 
and/or a storage facility near my house. I need manpower, I will provide food, 
fuel  beer. I have two pickups and 3 trailers.

This is an emergency. I realize most all of you work regular hours and can't. 
But at this point I am doing it alone. It's mostly a workshop and a few 
household items. Please!?

Thank you.

Sent cellularly.
-Don Arburn---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Howdy Texas Cavers,

UT Grotto meeting this week!  Come see the last presentation in our Pre
and Post Trips of the 2013 International Congress of Speleology series.
David Ochel, Jean Krejca, and Andrea Croskrey will be sharing photos and
tales of exploration and recreational caving with Matt Covington in
Slovenia.  Hope to see you there!

I'd also like to remind people that the room location for the UT Grotto
meetings has changed.  We will now be in *Burdine 134*. Follow this link to
a map of where the building is located on the University of Texas campus:
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org

Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for
happy hour specials.  This area is the best place to park and meet folks
walking over to the meeting.  Then after the official meeting, we continue
with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall
tales of caving at Posse East.  www.posse-east.com

Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I think the restoration project needs to be resurrected. Thoughts?

Nico
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

This post is not necessarily meant to be political but educational to inform 
tax paying citizens of what is going on in our nation and government. If this 
is indeed true, it should not be allowed but should be negotiated with brokers 
in the areas of the buildings to be sold. We're the active post office 
properties privately owned more people would be employed and property taxes 
would be paid. Just my opinion.
Fritz
Sent from my iPhone


 Subject: Fwd: Sale of US Post Office Buildings around the U.S.
 
  
  
 Subj: Sale of US Post Office Buildings around the U.S.
  
 
 
 
   It isn't always what you know that pays big dividends . . . . . .
 
 
 The U.S. has entered into a contract with a real estate firm to sell 56
 buildings that currently house U.S. Post Offices. The government has
 decided it no longer needs these buildings, most of which are located on
 prime land in towns and cities across the country. The sale of these
 properties will fetch about $19 billion.
 
 A regular real estate commission will be paid to the company that was
 given the exclusive listing for handling the sales. That company is CRI
 and it belongs to a man named Richard Blum.
 
 Richard Blum is the husband of Senator Dianne Feinstein. (Most voters and
 

texascavers Digest 4 Nov 2013 01:10:56 -0000 Issue 1879

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Nov 2013 01:10:56 - Issue 1879

Topics (messages 23008 through 23013):

Lost TCMA Members
23008 by: R D Milhollin

Kiwi Sink again
23009 by: David

Seeking contact information for Terry Sayther
23010 by: Speleosteele.aol.com

NSS awards nominations wanted
23011 by: Mixon Bill

a sea-cave slideshow clip
23012 by: David

Li- ion cordless drill battery
23013 by: Tom Rogers

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Texas Cavers,

The Texas Cave Management Association has lost contact with a few members, or 
possibly a few members have lost contact with the TCMA. In any event we are 
looking for them, and maybe YOU can help.

The annual election for TCMA directors is coming up and we want to be sure that 
every current member is able to vote for the candidate they feel will be most 
able to help TCMA move forward acquiring even more caves for cavers. The 
following list of cavers do not have current contact info on file with the 
TCMA… if you know where they are hiding can you let us know?

Doug Allen
Jacqueline J. Belwood
Carolyn Biegert
Phil Curtain
John Kebler
Kevin Koch
Gary Olsaver
Rachel Saker

Please send any helpful responses off-list to the TCMA database manager, Ron 
Ralph ronra...@austin.rr.com

An e-mail address would be best, since the ballots for the upcoming election 
will be sent via e-mail, and we can use that method to get updates on mailing 
addresses, etc. 


If any readers of this message are not current members they can go online to 
get current at:

 http://www.tcmacaves.org/financial/membership.php

(an on-topic texascavers post; key words and phrases: cave, cave management, 
TCMA, caves, cavers)---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Can anybody guess how many gallons of water entered Kiwi Sink and disappeared ?

Where do you suppose most of that water went ? Did it recharge the
aquifer or
did it come out in various springs ?

How many hours was the sump submerged with flowing water ?

Anybody got videos of the waterfall yet ?

I am tempted to drive from Houston tonight if there is still a waterfall.

Is the mining equipment and the ladder ok ?

Did anybody rappel down the 20 foot waterfall ?

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Would someone please e-mail me contact information for Terry Sayther? I'd  
like to have both his
cell phone and e-mail address.
 
Thanks,
 
Bill Steele---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Just a reminder that the deadline for nominating candidates for NSS  
awards to be announced at the banquet at the end of the 2014 NSS  
convention in Huntspatch is November 15. See the September NSS News,  
page 21, for information about all the awards and to whom nominations  
should be sent for each. There is also information about the awards,  
including lists of previous recipients, hidden away in the NSS web  
site. I don't know what's so secret, but some idiot has put it in the  
members-only area. On the home page at caves.org, click on members  
page, and sign in with your NSS number and ZIP code, which some idiot  
has labeled name and password. Depending on your browser, you may have  
to click a box to persuade it to remember you. Way down at the bottom  
of the resulting menu is a link to the awards information.


I'm particularly interested in nominations for the NSS's two highest  
awards, the William J. Stephenson Outstanding Service Award and the  
Honorary Membership. Nominations for those awards are sent to me, and  
the NSS Board of Governors selects the recipients at its spring BOG  
meeting. The Outstanding Service Award is given to one NSS member per  
year in recognition of outstanding service to the Society and its  
goals. The Honorary Membership is given to one person per year, not  
necessarily an NSS member, for outstanding contributions to the field  
of speleology; cave scientists from anywhere in the world are  
eligible. Nominating letters for either of those awards should be sent  
to me at the e-mail address below (or the one this message came from)  
or by mail to 14045 North Green Hills Loop, Austin, Texas 78737, and  
should reach me by the deadline of November 15. I will be out of reach  
until November 11, but after that will promptly acknowledge any  
letters received..--Bill Mixon


Please forward this note to other relevant lists.

Work is the curse of the drinking class.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End 

texascavers Digest 1 Nov 2013 19:26:38 -0000 Issue 1878

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 1 Nov 2013 19:26:38 - Issue 1878

Topics (messages 23004 through 23007):

TSS Survey Contest results
23004 by: David Ochel

TCMA Ezell's maintenance day
23005 by: Ron Ralph

Kiwi Sink related
23006 by: David

photo request
23007 by: Jill Orr

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Hi,

The Survey Contest at the Texas Cavers Reunion was well attended this
year, with twelve teams submitting their results of surveying parts of
the dry creek bed. Sponsored by the Texas Speleological Survey (TSS),
the survey consisted of nine legs forming a loop and included a few
hurdles, such as one leg exceeding the length of the provided tapes,
and some high-angle shots.

Team Fisher Ridgers (Andy Edwards and Sean Lewis) won first place, with
a calculated loop closure error of 0.52 meters. Fittingly, their prize,
a set of instruments made possible by the TSS with support of G4 Spatial
(formerly Miller Blueprint) in Austin, will become project gear for the
Fisher Ridge survey.

Ben and Carrie Hutchins were on the Fisher Ridgers' heels, with an error
of 0.58 m. They won station lights, donated as well by the TSS, that
hopefully will come in handy in future surveys.

There is some rounding involved in our method of computing the loop
closure error, which resulted in a tie for the third place. Yaz Avila
and Crash Kennedy, as well as Jen Foote and C.L. Kieffer, both surveyed
with an error of 0.95 m. Thankfully, Gonzo Guano Gear was happy to
double their donation of prizes in the last minute, and each of the
surveyors got their own survey pouch.

Although the course was set up and ready to be surveyed before noon on
Friday, no results were submitted that day. Instead, survey teams
reported being stuck behind each other on Saturday afternoon, trying to
get their results in before the deadline.

Besides our sponsors, special thanks go to Andrea Croskrey for helping
to set up the survey on Friday morning, and to Terry Holsinger for
helping with crunching the numbers instead of participating in the
parade. Thanks to everybody else who contributed as well!

If anybody is interested in more details or the results of their survey,
or in providing feedback, feel free to get in touch.

And don't forget to turn your surveys and cave maps in at
http://texasspeleologicalsurvey.org!

Cheers,
David

-- 
David Ochel, mailto:d...@ochel.net
-= http://blog.ochel.net =-

-- 
David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Cavers, we need your help!  The Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) will 
be sponsoring a work day to spruce up the Ezell’s Cave Preserve in Hays County. 
 We plan to prune limbs, cut weeds, haul off junk, and just generally make the 
property more attractive.  We need people, saws, loppers, weed eaters, gloves, 
and maybe even someone with a trailer willing to carry all the debris to the 
landfill.  Bring your own drinks and snacks for the work, but TCMA will treat 
all volunteers to pizza and drinks afterward. We will have water and litter 
bags for your use.



The date is Saturday, November 9, 2013 beginning at 9:00 am.  Meet at the 1500 
block of Brown Street, San Marcos.  Cell number for the day: 512-797-3817 (Ron 
Ralph).



If anyone wishes to enter the cave after the work is completed, the Preserve 
Manager has agreed to that.  All visitors to the Preserve will be asked to sign 
a liability waiver. Please give Ron a call if you get lost or would like more 
details.



Thanks for your support!



Jim Kennedy, TCMA Preserves Chair

512-663-2287



Directions to Ezell’s Cave Preserve

Roughly 1500 Brown Street



If coming in on IH 35 from the north or south, take exit 202 (Wonder World) and 
turn west passing the Valero and over the railroad tracks.



At the traffic light, turn right on Hunter Road or FM 2439 (north), then left 
on Dixon (across from Jack’s Road House), then jog right on Blevin and go past 
the Habitat for Humanity houses that back up to TCMA property.



Turn left at the next street (Clara) and left again at the next intersection 
(Brown).



Ezell’s Cave Preserve is the first jungle on the left.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I am curious if Kiwi Sink has flowing water into it.

Was this rain event the first big rain since the 50+ drums of rock and dirt
were removed this. past spring and summer ?

Is the water flow path at the bottom of the pit any different ?

I hope to make it back to digging in January.

Was there any digging in September or October ?

Were there other caves or karst features that were affected by this rain
event ?

For example, Jacob's Well.

David Locklear
---End Message---

texascavers Digest 30 Oct 2013 07:11:17 -0000 Issue 1877

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 30 Oct 2013 07:11:17 - Issue 1877

Topics (messages 22996 through 23003):

Re: Endangered Species Habitat Protected
22996 by: Gill Edigar

a Bronco for sale
22997 by: David
22998 by: Charles Loving

NSS Huntsville Work Weekends
22999 by: Preston Forsythe

Honeycomb Limestone
23000 by: Corky
23001 by: George Veni

honeycomb related
23002 by: David

cavers in the news
23003 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
My observation is that the Center for Biological Diversity's position makes
them very much like Religious Fundamentalists. Their overall purpose is
commendable but their methods and general attitudes are over kill and
annoying. I want to pat them on the back for some things while kicking them
in the ass for some others.
--Ediger


On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Jon cavefa...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Yeah, I think they are also into saving our environment and habitat for
 our kids and their kids.

 Sent from my Samsung Mobile




 Jimmy James ** wrote:

 This article originated from the Center for Biological Diversity. From
 what I understand, all that group does is file lawsuits. Does anybody know
 if they actually do anything other than sue people to protect endangered
 species?


   On Friday, October 25, 2013 9:57 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net
 wrote:
  Three endangered species from caves in Comal and Hays
 Counties have been granted protected
 habitat:
 
 http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/texas-invertebrates-10-22.2013.html
 .

 Mark

 Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
 Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org


 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com




---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I just saw this 4x4 vehicle for sale at a used-car dealership in Houston.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o1-b_dFEWjY/Um6NTffQRwI/EbI/Kgyvzg_gqiU/w958-h574-no/IMAG0763.jpg

It has a bumper on the back with tire and gas can.It has a dual-gas tank.

It looks like it was well-maintained and well-built.Unfortunately,
the dealer is asking
$ 15,000.It has a V-8 and a 4-speed automatic transmission, solid
axles, good ground-clearance.The canvas roof looks in good shape.

I wouldn't own a vehicle with a carburetor, and I doubt you could pay
me to drive a
Ford, but it is ready to go off-road to some place where a cave is
difficult to access.

I am guessing a vehicle like this would be available at an affordable
price outside of
Houston, but they will sell it to a young wanna-be yuppie outdoorsman
who has more
money than sense.

My personal opinion is that a caver should not drive an expensive
vehicle up into the
Sierra Madres, but at the same time you will need something like this
to get to some
of the places were old logging roads have been abandoned and have over-grown.  I
am not a big off-road enthusiast, so I don't know if those are the
ideal tires you would
want on a trip up there.   You will wish you had those knobby
mud-tires in those
low muddy-spots that you occasionally have to pass.

My next car is likely to be very tiny and a miser on gas, and maybe a
Nissan Leaf.


While I have your attention,

Home Depot has a 2-pack LED headlamp set for only $ 4.88, which
includes batteries.
The lamps look good enough for a trip to Whirlpool.But they have a
flashing red mode
and a green mode.The brand is Defiant.I could not find the
headlamps on the internet.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
t$15,000 can't be correct. My 1983 Bronco cost $1,500 when i got it. I need
parts. There are not many junked ones out here in Deer Corn. I need a tail
gate and a dash board. The dash caught fire when I turned on the heater and
the squirrel nest burst into flames. Lucky I had a fire putterr outter on
hand. It caused somewhat of a mess. The tail gate is stuck in closed and
the window is down, the electric motor fried at some point. A tail gate
would be nice and a dash. The radio is kaput too but the thing runs like a
top.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:57 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I just saw this 4x4 vehicle for sale at a used-car dealership in Houston.


 https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o1-b_dFEWjY/Um6NTffQRwI/EbI/Kgyvzg_gqiU/w958-h574-no/IMAG0763.jpg

 It has a bumper on the back with tire and gas can.It has a dual-gas
 tank.

 It looks like it was well-maintained and well-built.

texascavers Digest 28 Oct 2013 06:13:15 -0000 Issue 1876

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 28 Oct 2013 06:13:15 - Issue 1876

Topics (messages 22989 through 22995):

Re: cavetex alternative
22989 by: Chris Vreeland

Re: Endangered Species Habitat Protected
22990 by: Jimmy James
22993 by: Jon

book review: Sid Perou, cave cinematographer
22991 by: Mixon Bill

persistence
22992 by: Mixon Bill

UT Grotto Meeting October 30h
22994 by: Andrea Croskrey

celebreties in the news
22995 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
It strikes me as odd in this day  age that anyone can get that upset  
about receiving 20 or 30 emails from a list serve with hundreds if  
people on it in the first place, and I thought the poison ivy  
discussion was actually on-topic when you consider the prevalence of  
the stuff in the woods we all find ourselves tromping through.


It does bum me out when people insult them though, and more so when  
they go stomping off in a huff. We're part of a community that  
occasionally depends on it's members for our very lives, and we should  
treat one another with the kindness that sort of responsibility  
affords. I'd hate to think that the only person readily available to  
rescue my sorry ass was someone I'd made an enemy out of by being a  
public jerk on cavetex.


Chris
nss #41181, I think.


On Oct 25, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Herman Miller wrote:

I know over the years I have seen a lot of people angered over some  
of the topics that pop up on occasion here on the mailing list.  Not  
saying it’s right or wrong but seeing twenty or thirty replies to a  
topic that started as simply as “poison ivy” could get on peoples  
nerves.  If I may bring up an alternative to what many consider an  
antiquated method of communication; the official NSS message board.






---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
This article originated from the Center for Biological Diversity. From what I 
understand, all that group does is file lawsuits. Does anybody know if they 
actually do anything other than sue people to protect endangered species?



On Friday, October 25, 2013 9:57 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:
 
         Three endangered species from caves in Comal and Hays 
Counties have been granted protected 
habitat: 
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/texas-invertebrates-10-22.2013.html.

Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Yeah, I think they are also into saving our environment and habitat for our kids and their kids.Sent from my Samsung Mobile

Jimmy James  wrote:

This article originated from the Center for Biological Diversity. From what I understand, all that group does is file lawsuits. Does anybody know if they actually do anything other than sue people to protect endangered species?   On Friday, October 25, 2013 9:57 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: Three endangered species from caves in Comal and Hays Counties have been granted protected habitat: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/texas-invertebrates-10-22.2013.html.MarkPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
30 Years as an Adventure Cameraman: Book 1, Light into the Darkness.  
Sid Perou. By the author, Chiang Mai, Thailand; nd [2013]. 6 by 8  
inches, 222 pages plus video DVD, softbound. $32 postpaid.


Sid Perou was the best-known and most-awarded cave cinematographer  
during the era of film. (Did you know that megachiropteran, an old- 
world fruit bat, is an anagram for cinematographer?) He was making  
films for the BBC starting in the days of wind-up 16-mm cameras,  
motorcycle batteries, and car headlamps. This book tells of his  
adventures making films of caves beneath the Pennines in England, a  
British expedition to Papua New Guinea, exploration in the Gouffe  
Pierre Saint-Martin, at the time deepest in the world, and Castleguard  
Cave in the Canadian Rockies. He filmed an actual cave rescue in  
England; the victim died, but, despite some qualms, the BBC broadcast 

texascavers Digest 26 Oct 2013 01:35:48 -0000 Issue 1875

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 26 Oct 2013 01:35:48 - Issue 1875

Topics (messages 22973 through 22988):

Re: Poison-ivy
22973 by: Charles Goldsmith
22977 by: Fritz Holt

various topics
22974 by: David

a zip-lining video
22975 by: David

Cave diver Tom Iliffe wins award :
22976 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

Apology to Missy
22978 by: Carl Kunath

cave rescue medicine
22979 by: Mixon Bill

another cave rescue article
22980 by: Mixon Bill
22984 by: Mark Minton

contact with grotto
22981 by: Espeleo Coahuila

correction to my last post
22982 by: David

Re: Tom Meador Award
22983 by: Jim Evatt

Endangered Species Habitat Protected
22985 by: Mark Minton

new book from AMCS, bulletin erratum
22986 by: Mixon Bill

cavetex alternative
22987 by: Herman Miller

2013 TCR Vertical Contest Winners
22988 by: goody twoshoes

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Sheesh, some people.  Simply browsing to http://texascavers.com/ will get
you the instructions on this list.  Also, my mailing list software includes
headers which tells you how to unsubscribe, and it also includes a footer,
with instructions as well.  Problem is, most email clients hide both of
these.

As most people probably know, you can't unsubscribe from a single thread,
the software isn't that complicated, it's an opt-in list, you get all mail.
 Delete what you don't want.

Charles
mailing list administrator and lurker :)


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:15 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:

 I agree with Jon. The comments directed to Missy were entirely uncalled
 for.

 Jerry.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 23, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Jon Cradit jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org
 wrote:

  This seems to me to be symptomatic of what our society is increasingly
 accepting as the norm or acceptable behavior.  This is becoming more common
 in how we treat our “friends”, our extended family of cavers, who at times
 we depend on for our safety and at times our life.  We see this in our
 politicians and the dysfunctional government.  It hurts people to the
 bone.  Is it truly necessary?  The personal attacks and name calling.  Can
 we no longer have a civil discussion and accept each other’s personal
 quirks?  It’s easy for someone, “them”, to press DELETE, the same is true
 for me and you, if I don’t want to read their post.

 

 Just wondering….

 ** **

 ** **

 *From:* Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com]
 *Sent:* Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:57 PM
 *To:* Missy Singleton
 *Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.comtexascavers@texascavers.com
 *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy

 ** **

 You are obviously an idiot (sic) then since you don’t realize there is no
 way to avoid a thread when you’re on a mailing list :-)

 ** **

 If you tell the list what sort of tool/filter you use to read email –
 Outlook, Yahoo, Gmail, etc. I’m sure some nice person who’s more
 technically savvy than I am (I just use the delete button in Outlook) will
 tell you how to set up the appropriate filter.

 ** **

 Cheers,

 Stefan

 ** **

 *(Deleteing the rest for Sleaze’s benefit :-)*


 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
 information in any medium. Thank you.

 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Missy,
I apologize for the idiots who called you by their name. Please forgive them as 
they are in the minority. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2013, at 6:15 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:

 I agree with Jon. The comments directed to Missy were entirely uncalled for.
 
 Jerry.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 23, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Jon Cradit jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote:
 
 This seems to me to be symptomatic of what our society is increasingly 
 accepting as the norm or acceptable behavior.  This is becoming more common 
 in how we treat our “friends”, our extended family of cavers, who at times 
 we depend on for our safety and at times our life.  We see this in our 
 politicians and the dysfunctional government.  It hurts people to the bone.  
 Is it truly necessary?  The personal attacks and name calling.  Can we no 
 longer 

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 19:49:00 -0000 Issue 1873

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 19:49:00 - Issue 1873

Topics (messages 22962 through 22965):

Re: Poison-ivy
22962 by: Louise Power
22963 by: Missy Singleton
22965 by: Stefan Creaser

Etiquette for Alzheimer's victims
22964 by: BMorgan994.aol.com

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
I don't think it's possible for anyone other than the moderator to modify the 
list. So it wouldn't be possible for any one other than him to take you off the 
list. And you'd probably have to be taken off the list in general. I don't 
think he'd do it for one thread. Do what I do, just delete. It's not exactly a 
secret what the subject of the messages are, so quit shooting the messengers.
 



From: missie...@hotmail.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:51:40 -0500




Sure do and thank you for inundating me with yet another email I do not wish to 
read.  I assume you don't know how to not respond to someone asking to not be 
on a thread.

I asked nicely once.







From: power_lou...@hotmail.com
To: missie...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:46:23 -0700




probably not as long as you're on the Texascavers list. I assume you know how 
to use your delete button
 



From: missie...@hotmail.com
To: pw...@dca.net; power_lou...@hotmail.com; donarb...@mac.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:57:34 -0500




Can I please be removed from the Poison ivy thread?

Thank you,







Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:53:38 -0400
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; donarb...@mac.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
From: pw...@dca.net
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy

All the inactive ingredients can be considered solvents if they are liquids.

At 10/23/2013 10:51 AM -0700, Louise Power wrote:

Here is what the Tech-Nu label says. I'm not a chemist, so which one of these 
ingredients is a solvent?
 
Active ingredient:

Grindelia robusta 3X - Purpose:anti-itch


Inactive ingredients:

alcohol 0.4%, aminomethyl propanol, benzethonium chloride, carbomer, fragrance, 
polyethylene beads, polyoxyethylene (4) lauryl ether, polysorbate 20, purified 
water, SD alcohol 40B 6.4%


Uses:



Temporarily relieves burning, itching and pain due to poison ivy, oak and 
sumac. 
Removes poison ivy, oak and sumac oil (urushiol) from skin. 

Warnings:



Do not use on severe, draining rashes. 
Do not use if pregnant or nursing, ask a health professional before use. 
Keep out of reach of children 
If swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison Control Center right away. 
Keep out of eyes. 
If condition worsens, or if symptoms persist more than 7 days or clear up and 
occur again with a few days, stop use and consult a physician. 
Do not use on children under 2 years of age, consult a physician. 

Directions:



To treat a rash: (adults and children 2 years and older)



Squeeze a desired amount of product into hand and mix with equal amount of 
water. 
Apply to affected skin and surrounding areas and gently rub for 15 seconds; 
avoid breaking the skin. 
Rinse with cool running water and towel dry gently. 
Repeat as needed. 

To remove urushiol oil: (adults and children 2 years and older)



Squeeze a desired amount of product into hand and mix with equal amount of 
water. 
Apply to exposed areas and gently rub for 15 seconds; if hypersensitive, wash 
entire body with Tecnu Extreme. 
Rinse with cool running water and towel dry. 

Other information:

Store at 59 to 89°F (15 to 30°C)
 


From: donarb...@mac.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:13:49 -0500
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy

When affected, I have found -tremendous- relief of the lesions by simply 
spraying them with a jet of very hot water. The sensation is much more 
gratifying than scratching but also completely stops the itching, no meds 
needed after. Hot as I could stand, ONLY on the wound. Strange but true.

Sent cellularly. 
-Don

On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Mary Thiesse wpipistre...@yahoo.com  wrote:



I have to say that my instincts tell me that solvents seem like a bad idea in 
this case. Working in the lab if there was any kind of chemical splatter or 
spill it was always soap and water to wash off the area. Solvents can enable 
the offender (whatever it is) to penetrate the skin. So using these products 
seems contrary to what I've learned over the years. Personally I think I'll 
stick with soap (Dawn) and water for removal of the oils and then treat with 
topical steroids if needed.


Mary TZ



From: Tom Rogers  decksunlimi...@hotmail.com

To: 

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 23:16:03 -0000 Issue 1874

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 23:16:03 - Issue 1874

Topics (messages 22966 through 22972):

Re: Poison-ivy
22966 by: Stefan Creaser
22967 by: Missy Singleton
22969 by: Jon Cradit
22971 by: Steve Keselik
22972 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

Unsubscribe!
22968 by: Missy Singleton

TCR thanks, and
22970 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
You are obviously an idiot (sic) then since you don't realize there is no way 
to avoid a thread when you're on a mailing list :-)

If you tell the list what sort of tool/filter you use to read email - Outlook, 
Yahoo, Gmail, etc. I'm sure some nice person who's more technically savvy than 
I am (I just use the delete button in Outlook) will tell you how to set up the 
appropriate filter.

Cheers,
Stefan

(Deleteing the rest for Sleaze's benefit :-)

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium. Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered 
in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
As much as I once loved the caving community; I'm out.  I will now gladly ask 
to be taken off the mailing list.  I have received at least 5 private messages 
where I have been called an idiot, been berated, insulted and mocked.  All 
because I asked politely to not be included on an email thread.

Fuck off!  Oh, and have a nice day!
Missy 



From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: missie...@hotmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:57:20 -0700
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy









You are obviously an idiot (sic) then since you don’t realize there is no way 
to avoid a thread when you’re on a mailing list :-)
 
If you tell the list what sort of tool/filter you use to read email – Outlook, 
Yahoo, Gmail, etc. I’m sure some nice person who’s more technically savvy than
 I am (I just use the delete button in Outlook) will tell you how to set up the 
appropriate filter.
 
Cheers,
Stefan
 


(Deleteing the rest for Sleaze’s benefit :-)





-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents
 to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information 
in any medium. Thank you.



ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered 
in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590

ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782

  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
This seems to me to be symptomatic of what our society is increasingly 
accepting as the norm or acceptable behavior.  This is becoming more common in 
how we treat our friends, our extended family of cavers, who at times we 
depend on for our safety and at times our life.  We see this in our politicians 
and the dysfunctional government.  It hurts people to the bone.  Is it truly 
necessary?  The personal attacks and name calling.  Can we no longer have a 
civil discussion and accept each other's personal quirks?  It's easy for 
someone, them, to press DELETE, the same is true for me and you, if I don't 
want to read their post.
Just wondering


From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Missy Singleton
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy

You are obviously an idiot (sic) then since you don't realize there is no way 
to avoid a thread when you're on a mailing list :-)

If you tell the list what sort of tool/filter you use to read email - Outlook, 
Yahoo, Gmail, etc. I'm sure some nice person who's more technically savvy than 
I am (I just use the delete button in Outlook) will tell you how to set up the 
appropriate filter.

Cheers,
Stefan

(Deleteing the rest for Sleaze's benefit :-)

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use 

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 17:53:32 -0000 Issue 1871

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 17:53:32 - Issue 1871

Topics (messages 22952 through 22957):

Re: Poison-ivy
22952 by: Don Arburn
22956 by: Louise Power
22957 by: Phil Winkler

Poison ivy at Paradise Canyon
22953 by: Diana Tomchick

Re: Poison-ivy and Karst
22954 by: Louise Power
22955 by: Louise Power

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
When affected, I have found -tremendous- relief of the lesions by simply 
spraying them with a jet of very hot water. The sensation is much more 
gratifying than scratching but also completely stops the itching, no meds 
needed after. Hot as I could stand, ONLY on the wound. Strange but true.

Sent cellularly.
-Don

 On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Mary Thiesse wpipistre...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 I have to say that my instincts tell me that solvents seem like a bad idea in 
 this case. Working in the lab if there was any kind of chemical splatter or 
 spill it was always soap and water to wash off the area. Solvents can enable 
 the offender (whatever it is) to penetrate the skin. So using these products 
 seems contrary to what I've learned over the years. Personally I think I'll 
 stick with soap (Dawn) and water for removal of the oils and then treat with 
 topical steroids if needed.
 
 Mary TZ
 
 From: Tom Rogers decksunlimi...@hotmail.com
 To: caverarch cavera...@aol.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy
 
 I have had it many times. I have now from TCR. The best stuff to use is 
 mineral spirits. The main ingredient in tecnu. Any alcohol based liquid will 
 work. Rub it on immediately. Rinse with water after about ten minutes. There 
 will still be a rash but it will stop it from spreading. Rub down tools with 
 alcohol also to remove poison ivy oil. I suspect my repeated exposures has 
 built immunity. 
  Tom
 
 --- Original Message ---
 
 From: caverarch cavera...@aol.com
 Sent: October 22, 2013 6:12 PM
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy
 
 I am a bit more sensitive to the vine than I was in my youth. I'm sure this 
 is the result of repeated exposure from lots of field work in the eastern 
 woodlands and blissfully disregarding contact back in those days.
 
 Roger G. Moore
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: George Veni gv...@nckri.org
 To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:40 pm
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy
 
 Poison ivy never bothered me for many years, but I learned that immunity can 
 sometimes be lost by repeated exposure. So my advice to those who are 
 currently immune is to avoid it as much as possible. 
 
 George
 
 
 Sent from my mobile phone
 
 
 
 George Veni, Ph.D.
 Executive Director
 National Cave and Karst Research Institute
 400-1 Cascades Avenue
 Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215
 USA
 Office: 575-887-5517
 Mobile: 210-863-5919
 Fax: 575-887-5523
 gv...@nckri.org
 www.nckri.org
 
 
 
 
  Original message 
 From: Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com 
 Date: 2013/10/22 16:31 (GMT-07:00) 
 To: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net 
 Cc: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Poison-ivy 
 
 
 Good things to know. Since I am not allergic, I haven't been aware of the 
 other treatments.
 
 Sheryl
 
 Sheryl Rieck, Senior Oracle Financials Consultant
 True SEM Antics, Inc.
 832-632-2387 Home
 361-205-1458 Cell
 
 
 On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:
 A related product is Tecnu 
 http://www.teclabsinc.com/products/poison-oak-ivy/tecnu, also commonly 
 available at pharmacies.  These products wash away the oily residue that 
 causes the rash .  They work best when used as soon as possible after 
 exposure, but can help even the next day or two.  Calamine (pink stuff), on 
 the other hand, is simply a topical anesthetic and antiseptic.  It reduces 
 itching, but doesn't really cure the problem (treats the symptoms, not the 
 disease).  (I'm also not affected by poison ivy, but my partner Yvonne is 
 extremely sensitive.)
 
 Mark
 
 
 At 06:06 PM 10/22/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
 I'm very allergic to it, I swear I can just look at a plant and it jump on 
 me, always have been.  The best stuff I've ever found to get rid of it is 
 http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-poison-ivy-wash/ID=prod6113607-product
  
 
 Of course that's a store brand, there are other products that are named 
 brand.  I've used the walgreen's brand with very good results.  it's 
 expensive, but worth every cent.
 
 Pink stuff didn't seem to work very well, 

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 16:06:44 -0000 Issue 1870

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 16:06:44 - Issue 1870

Topics (messages 22943 through 22951):

Poison Ivey and Climate Change
22943 by: Josh Rubinstein

Re: Poison-ivy and Karst
22944 by: Gill Edigar
22945 by: Phil Winkler
22949 by: Bob West

Re: Poison-ivy
22946 by: Gill Edigar
22947 by: Tom Rogers
22948 by: Tom Rogers
22951 by: Mary Thiesse

Anacardiaceae
22950 by: BMorgan994.aol.com

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
The higher CO2 is not only promoting an abundance of Poison Ivey but making
it more potent. See
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/features/climate-change-brings-super-poison-ivy
After
a lifetime in the woods, it is only in the last decade that I have been
effected by the toxin.

Josh
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I forgot to mention an apocryphal story regarding my East Texas cousins who
were Piney Woods squirrel hunters in their youth and often came home with
poison ivy lesions. My aunt used an old procedure that involved my cousins
taking a certain number (which I don't remember) of ripe poison ivy seeds
by mouth for several (again, I don't remember how many) days. They were,
reportedly, cured of their sensitivity to poison ivy--or, at least, it was
greatly diminished.
--Ediger


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:15 PM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:


 Poison-ivy and Karst

 How cave related can you get??  (I'll do everything I can to get this site
 back on track)

 I grew up in New York and was terribly allergic to poison ivy as a
 youngster.  Like, someone burned some  brush with the vines in the pile, a
 half-mile away.  Good Lord, was I ever in an awful itchy situation after
 the smoke passed over me --.  Fortunately my lungs did not react.

 When I started to do karst and geological things in upstate NY, I
 discovered two things:

 1. To see the bedrock I had to crawl on my belly like a snake up stream
 beds.

 2. I could map the limestone without ever seeing it, just by mapping where
 the lush poison ivy grew. (THAT is the Karst tie-in)

 After I came West, I could more easily see Rocks and I gradually lost my
 extreme reaction.  But I learned what George cautioned:  Immunity is lost
 by repeated exposure.

 Then I moved to Texas and discovered Poison Oak.  It makes TREES going up
 the cliffs with trunks as big around as Bob Oakley's thighs around springs
 in the Big Bend.  ESPECIALLY in what is now Big Bend Ranch State Park.






---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Pretty sure poison oak can be found in the eastern US, too.
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/poison-ivy-oak-and-sumac-leaves 
and sumac, too.


At 10/23/2013 08:42 AM -0500, Gill Edigar wrote:
I forgot to mention an apocryphal story regarding my East Texas 
cousins who were Piney Woods squirrel hunters in their youth and 
often came home with poison ivy lesions. My aunt used an old 
procedure that involved my cousins taking a certain number (which I 
don't remember) of ripe poison ivy seeds by mouth for several 
(again, I don't remember how many) days. They were, reportedly, 
cured of their sensitivity to poison ivy--or, at least, it was 
greatly diminished.

--Ediger


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:15 PM, 
mailto:dirt...@comcast.netdirt...@comcast.net wrote:


Poison-ivy and Karst

How cave related can you get??  (I'll do everything I can to get 
this site back on track)


I grew up in New York and was terribly allergic to poison ivy as a 
youngster.  Like, someone burned some  brush with the vines in the 
pile, a half-mile away.  Good Lord, was I ever in an awful itchy 
situation after the smoke passed over me --.  Fortunately my 
lungs did not react.


When I started to do karst and geological things in upstate NY, I 
discovered two things:


1. To see the bedrock I had to crawl on my belly like a snake up stream beds.

2. I could map the limestone without ever seeing it, just by mapping 
where the lush poison ivy grew. (THAT is the Karst tie-in)


After I came West, I could more easily see Rocks and I gradually 
lost my extreme reaction.  But I learned what George 
cautioned:  Immunity is lost by repeated exposure.


Then I moved to Texas and discovered Poison Oak.  It makes TREES 
going up the cliffs with trunks as big around as Bob Oakley's thighs 
around springs in the Big Bend.  ESPECIALLY in what is now Big Bend 
Ranch State Park.







No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.comwww.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6274 - Release Date: 10/23/13


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I remember being very sensitive to poison ivy in my early 

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 13:27:21 -0000 Issue 1869

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 23 Oct 2013 13:27:21 - Issue 1869

Topics (messages 22932 through 22942):

DFW Grotto member Jake McLeod wins Chuck Stuehm Award
22932 by: Speleosteele.aol.com

PBSS member Kayde Hill wins Chuck Stuehm Award at theTexas Cavers Reunion
22933 by: Bill Bentley

Re: Poison-ivy
22934 by: cvreeland
22938 by: Kurt L. Menking
22939 by: Gill Edigar
22940 by: Bill Walden
22942 by: vivbone.att.net

Re: Poison-ivy and Karst
22935 by: Gill Edigar
22936 by: Charles Goldsmith

Message from the CaveSim guy
22937 by: Bill Steele

Re: poison ivy distribution
22941 by: Jim Kennedy

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
 
October 21,2013   
Dallas/Fort Worth  Grotto member Jake McLeod wins Chuck Stuehm Award at the 
Texas  Cavers Reunion... 
The Chuck Stuehm  Award —An Annual Grotto Award for Exceptional New Cavers  
 
Have you ever  heard of the Chuck Stuehm Award? It is an award for new and 
exceptional cavers,  and can be awarded to one new caver in each grotto in 
Texas. The award is named  after Chuck Stuehm (pronounced “ Steam”), who was 
a caver in San Antonio, and  was especially good at welcoming, working 
with, and encouraging new cavers.  Chuck's memory is honored every time a new, 
exceptionally exuberant caver  receives this award. Every grotto has the 
opportunity to encourage new cavers by  selecting a new caver for this award 
every year.  
Chuck died an untimely death on January 31, 1980 at the age of 52. An  
issue of the Texas Caver was a memorial issue for Chuck, outlining many of his  
accomplishments in caving. At the same time the Chuck Stuehm Award was  
established to be awarded annually to an outstanding new caver in each grotto 
at 
 the Texas Cavers’ Reunion (TCR).  
The Chuck Stuehm Award Requirements:  
The only requirement for the award is that the caver has been caving two  
years or less and shows an high level of enthusiasm  for and interest in 
caving. Selection of  the recipient is by the grotto in whatever way they 
choose. Often the officers  will choose the recipient after consulting some of 
the 
more active members of  the grotto, keeping the award a surprise until TCR. 
Often the grotto will also  honor the recipient at the next grotto meeting 
after TCR.  Jake will be treated to a free dinner  after our meeting 
tomorrow night.  
The Chuck Stuehm Award Prize: The prize is one year's membership  to the 
TSA (Texas Speleological Association) and a shiny certificate suitable  for 
framing. If the winner is already a TSA member they will receive one  year's 
extension of membership. This year’s  Chuck Stuehm Award winners were 
announced  at TCR on October 19th, 2013. 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
October 19,2013 
Permian Basin Speleological Society member Kayde Hill wins Chuck Stuehm Award 
at the Texas Cavers Reunion...

The Chuck Stuehm Award 
-An Annual Grotto Award for Exceptional New Cavers 

Have you ever heard of the Chuck Stuehm Award? It is an award for new and 
exceptional cavers, and can be 
awarded to one new caver in each grotto in Texas. The award is named after 
Raymond Chuck Stuehm 
(pronounced  Steam) who was a member of several Grottos in the San Antonio 
area and was especially 
good at guiding, working with, and encouraging new cavers. Chuck's memory is 
honored every time a new,
exceptionally exuberant caver receives this award. Every grotto has the 
opportunity to encourage new 
cavers by selecting a new caver for this award every year. 
Chuck Stuehm died an untimely death on January 31, 1980 at the age of 52. A 
memorial issue of the Texas 
Caver was a memorial issue for Chuck, outlining many of his accomplishments in 
caving. At the same time
the Chuck Stuehm Award was established for to be given to an outstanding new 
caver in each grotto each year at 
Texas Cavers' Reunion (TCR), which was then called the Old Timers' Reunion. 
The Chuck Stuehm Award Requirements: 
The only requirement for the award is that the caver has been caving two years 
or less and shows an unusual 
enthusiasm and interest in caving, and all aspects of caving. Selection of the 
recipient is by the grotto in whatever 
way they choose. Often the officers will choose the recipient after consulting 
some of the more active members 
of the grotto, keeping the award a surprise until TCR. Often the grotto will 
also honor the recipient at 
the next grotto meeting after TCR. 

The Chuck Stuehm Award Prize: The prize is one year's membership to the TSA 
(Texas Speleological Association) 
and a shiny certificate suitable for framing. If the winner is already a TSA 

texascavers Digest 22 Oct 2013 23:44:33 -0000 Issue 1868

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 22 Oct 2013 23:44:33 - Issue 1868

Topics (messages 22915 through 22931):

[TCR Lost-N-Found Photos]
22915 by: Don Arburn
22916 by: Aubri Jenson

Mike Boon
22917 by: Mixon Bill

Poison-ivy
22918 by: David
22919 by: Sheryl Rieck
22920 by: Sheryl Rieck
22921 by: George D. Nincehelser
22922 by: DESSIE PIERCE
22923 by: Charles Goldsmith
22924 by: Mark Minton
22925 by: Sheryl Rieck
22926 by: George Veni
22927 by: Don Arburn
22928 by: Louise Power
22929 by: caverarch
22931 by: Tom Rogers

Poison-ivy and Karst
22930 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Spread the word, tell your friends, call the Aggies, share: there is a video of 
Lost Found items on the Texas Cavers Reunion 2013 Facebook page.

If you don't claim it, I'll either sell it, auction it or it goes in my rag 
bin. There's even some folks who have volunteered to simply TAKE it.

Sent cellularly.
-Don---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Hey all!
I left a headlamp that I didn't see in Don's video. It's a Black Diamond
Icon, with a AA battery pack and black and silver casing. I left it on the
lawn by the rope contest. Please let me know if you think you have it!
Thank you in advance, I'll pay for shipping if needed.
Aubri Jenson (UT grotto)


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com wrote:

 Spread the word, tell your friends, call the Aggies, share: there is a
 video of Lost Found items on the Texas Cavers Reunion 2013 Facebook page.

 If you don't claim it, I'll either sell it, auction it or it goes in my
 rag bin. There's even some folks who have volunteered to simply TAKE it.

 Sent cellularly.
 -Don
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Anybody have any idea how Mike Boon might be reached these days? --  
Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Anybody know the best proven treatment for a poison-ivy rash from personal
experience?

Anybody have a good theory about how to boost immunity ?

4 things that I feel make it worse are scratching, sunlight, heat or hot
water, and drying off with bath towels, all of which seem unavoidable.

Is it true that some ethnic groups are not allergic, and that white-skinned
people are the most allergic ?

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I am not allergic and you don't get much whiter-skinned than I. I also have
never heard of any particular ethnic group immunity. The pink goop helps,
calamine lotion. You should avoid spreading by not scratching and then
touching other parts of your body. It mostly has to run its course unless
you go to the doctor.

Sheryl

Sheryl Rieck, Senior Oracle Financials Consultant
True SEM Antics, Inc.
832-632-2387 Home
361-205-1458 Cell


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 4:47 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anybody know the best proven treatment for a poison-ivy rash from personal
 experience?

 Anybody have a good theory about how to boost immunity ?

 4 things that I feel make it worse are scratching, sunlight, heat or hot
 water, and drying off with bath towels, all of which seem unavoidable.

 Is it true that some ethnic groups are not allergic, and that
 white-skinned people are the most allergic ?

 David Locklear

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Sheryl Rieck, Senior Oracle Financials Consultant
True SEM Antics, Inc.
832-632-2387 Home
361-205-1458 Cell


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.comwrote:

 I am not allergic and you don't get much whiter-skinned than I. I also
 have never heard of any particular ethnic group immunity. The pink goop
 helps, calamine lotion. You should avoid spreading by not scratching and
 then touching other parts of your body. It mostly has to run its course
 unless you go to the doctor.

 Sheryl

 Sheryl Rieck, Senior Oracle Financials Consultant
 True SEM Antics, Inc.
 832-632-2387 Home
 361-205-1458 Cell


 On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 4:47 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anybody know the best proven treatment for a poison-ivy rash from
 personal 

texascavers Digest 21 Oct 2013 02:30:07 -0000 Issue 1867

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 21 Oct 2013 02:30:07 - Issue 1867

Topics (messages 22909 through 22914):

Re: Vacancy Park Ranger (OHV) GS-0025-07
22909 by: Louise Power

an interesting video clip
22910 by: David

RM 620 cave near Round Rock
22911 by: David

TCR!
22912 by: Denise P
22913 by: George Veni

Re: graphene
22914 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Anyone out there looking for a job? Come to southern Oregon. It's beautiful 
with four distinct seasons and lots of recreational opportunities. The Medford 
District is a really friendly place to work. Not many caves in the area, but 
there are some active grottos around both in SW Oregon and northern California.

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:40:20 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Vacancy Park Ranger (OHV) GS-0025-07
From: cpo...@blm.gov
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com



-- Forwarded message --
From: Byrd, Dennis db...@blm.gov

Date: Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: Vacancy Park Ranger (OHV) GS-0025-07
To: BLM_OR_Rec_Group blm_or_rec_gr...@blm.gov


Here is a great opportunity for someone interested in OHV Trail Management in 
Southern Oregon. Please pass this on to anyone you think may be interested. 

Click the link below to view the announcement.



The following
vacancy can be found on USA
Jobs after the
opening date below.

 

 

Announcement
Number:  OR Merit-2013-0123

 

 

Position:  Park Ranger (OHV)









Series  Grade:  GS-0025-07










Open Period:  Friday, October 18, 2013 to Thursday, October 24, 2013









Duty Location:  Medford, Oregon










Position Information:  Full Time, Term










-- 

Dennis ByrdRecreation Lead Ashland RA

Medford District 


Bureau of Land Management3040 Biddle Rd. Medford, OR. 97504Desk: 541-618-2369





Cell: 541-941-3560Fax: 541-618-2491 fax



-- 
Louise PowerFinancial TechMedford DistrictPhone 541-618-2211
Fax 541-618-2400
  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The 6 minute video-clip below just has nature scenes, but it is worth
heating up some popcorn first, before viewing it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157406n
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I have not heard any new news about the cave found by the road
construction crew.

One news-site says that it was to be filled in by mid-October.

Anybody out there have new information ?

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Wow, what a great TCR, lovely site and weather! Thanks to everyone who made it 
happen - Don, Stefan and the cooks, Pete Strickland with the hot tub and sauna, 
and everyone else. It was a hoot.

Cheers,
Denise
  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I second that, but even better was seeing many good friends. It's been about 4 
years since I was last able to make it to TCR. I hope it won't be that long 
before my next one.

My thanks to all who make it possible.

George


Sent from my mobile phone



George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215
USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org




 Original message 
From: Denise P pepabe...@hotmail.com
Date: 2013/10/20 15:50 (GMT-07:00)
To: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] TCR!


Wow, what a great TCR, lovely site and weather! Thanks to everyone who made it 
happen - Don, Stefan and the cooks, Pete Strickland with the hot tub and sauna, 
and everyone else. It was a hoot.

Cheers,
Denise
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

Most interesting and informative. 
Fritz
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Kittymryth kittymr...@aol.com
 Date: October 15, 2013 10:26:09 AM CDT
 To: fritz...@gmail.com
 Subject: Fwd: graphene
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Richard J Rome rjrome0...@gmail.com
 To: Undisclosed-recipients: 
 Sent: Tue, Oct 15, 2013 7:55 am
 Subject: graphene
 
 
 Amazing Graphene
 Technology helps the world advance. As humans it's in our nature to 
 investigate, innovate and solve problems. This curiosity means we make 
 things, create things and develop new technologies. You can look back 
 thousands of years for basic examples of technology pushing civilization 
 forward.
  
 Most people don't understand the rapid change technology has on their 
 lives... or the speed at which a sea change occurs.
  
 For example, the following are the five 'Great Ages' of human progress and 
 their approximate duration:
 Stone Age - 3.4 million years
 Bronze Age - 

texascavers Digest 18 Oct 2013 23:26:16 -0000 Issue 1866

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 18 Oct 2013 23:26:16 - Issue 1866

Topics (messages 22899 through 22908):

Re: October CBSP Project Trip Report
22899 by: Terry Holsinger
22900 by: Jim Kennedy
22901 by: Heather Tucek
22903 by: rafal kedzierski

AMCS sales at TCR
22902 by: Mixon Bill

TSA Members Meeting at TCR, 9am Sunday, October 20th, 2013
22904 by: ellie watson

TCR Weather
22905 by: Justin Leigh Shaw
22906 by: Diana Tomchick

TCMA Election Dates Announcement
22907 by: Saj Zappitello

cavers on Linkedin
22908 by: David

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
SAB 239 Centennial Cave was surveyed, and drafted in May and June 1992, 
by Mike Anderson, Carolyn Biegert, Pat Geery, Rafal and Wojcoech 
Kedzierski and the draft was by Rafal Kedzierski.
Map was included in trip reports filed with TPWD at the time and with 
the TSS later.


Terry H.

On 10/16/2013 1:22 AM, Kris Pena wrote:

Looks like one team was left off from the previous report.


Jim, Yazmin, Tone, and Jason set out with the task of checking caves and
karst features in the prolific Lively Pasture. Their objective was to tag,
photodocument, and write detailed descriptions of everything they came
across. They successfully located and documented SAB 267 (Gas Pipe Cave),
SAB 225 (Slick Mudder Karst Feature), SAB 226 (Embryo Cave), SAB 224 (Cave
#6), SAB 721, SAB 386 (SABK005 karst feature), SAB 239 (Centennial Cave),
SAB 737 (Trash Sink), SAB 708 (Park-N-Dig), SAB 733a  SAB 733b
(Marchmallow Cave), SAB 812, SAB 203 (Space Heater Cave), SAB 257 (Earth
Day Delight Cave), SAB 179 (Sore Toe Cave), and SAB 178 (Varmint Trap Cave).


Full Report:
Team 7: Jim, Yazmin, Tone, Jason
Reporter: Jim Kennedy
Total hours: 26

Objectives: Check caves and karst features in Lively Pasture for
completeness, i.e. tags, photos, coordinates, descriptions, and future dig
potential. Record additional biology.

*SITES VISITED:*

GAS PIPE CAVE (SAB0267) [karst feature]  - The entrance is in a small
sinkhole, about 1.1 meters long and 0.5m wide. A small tree with the cave�s
namesake gas supply pipe is nearby. The entrance drops through soil to a
bedrock crevice of the same length and only 0.33m wide. From the bedrock
interface it drops another 1.5m to the sediment of the cave floor. Downdip
the cave continues at least 2.6m more as a tight crawl over soil fill
before becoming impassable with little hope of continuation. Reduvidiid
bugs, harvestmen, cave crickets, and fresh porcupine scat were noted on 12
Oct 2013. Previously mapped in 2008.


SLICK MUDDER KARST FEATURE (SAB0225)  -  This is a 4-meter-long elliptical
sinkhole formed along a prominent bedrock joint. It is 1.5m at the widest
point, sloping down through the soil cover to the bedrock crevice, which is
no more than 0.3m wide. The crevice is largely soil-filled, with a few
small drain points no more than 1m below the surface, but indicating some
potential for passage below. No critters were noted.


EMBRYO CAVE (SAB0226) [karst feature]  - The entrance to this small cave is
a tiny sinkhole only 1.5m from an internal fenceline. The opening has
maximum dimensions of 0.8m x 0.4m. It is easily free-climbable through
multiple chert layers to a depth of 2.4m. There is a low crawl at the
bottom that heads northward at least 2m more, but it is only 0.2m wide. It
has a dirt floor and is diggable but does not look promising. One raccoon
was noted as well as harvestmen and cave crickets, an unidentified spider,
and porcupine quills. Mapped in 2008.


CAVE #6 (SAB224) -  At the surface, this cave is a 10.3m-long crevice with
various openings in a cedar elm copse surrounded by dense, nasty brush. The
center hole leads to the majority of the passage. It drops 5m as a free-
climbable fissure, then heads southeast 2.6m before becoming too tight. The
drain continues with a dirt floor and may possibly be dug; and a larger
passage can be seen through the restriction. Uphill, to the northwest, the
cave goes up a 1m climb and continues at least 2.6m. A small surface hole
to the northwest connects to this passage but is too tight for humans. See
profile and cross section sketches. A mouse (*Peromyscus *sp.), cave
crickets, harvestmen, a large black beetle, a large toad, an unidentified
caterpillar, and 3cm scat (possibly from a ringtail, *Bassariscus astutus*)
were noted in the cave. Surveyed in 2011, no map yet drafted


SAB0721 karst feature [no other name] -  This is a shallow L-shaped fissure
with one leg about 3m long and the other 5m. Maximum width of the short
side is 0.5m and depth is 0.45m. Maximum width of the long side is 0.8m and
depth is 

texascavers Digest 16 Oct 2013 06:23:04 -0000 Issue 1865

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 16 Oct 2013 06:23:04 - Issue 1865

Topics (messages 22894 through 22898):

Re: October CBSP Project Trip Report
22894 by: Aimee Beveridge
22898 by: Kris Pena

ride needed from SA airport to TCR on Thursday
22895 by: Jim Kennedy

Directions to TCR, October 17-20 @ Paradise Canyon
22896 by: ellie watson

Need coolers for transporting food to TCR...
22897 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Great report, Kris! 

 On Oct 15, 2013, at 21:14, Kris Pena kapkanga...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Project Date: October 11-13, 2013
 
 VOLUNTEERS: Lori Karker, William Quast, Anthony Garot, Yazmin Avila, Jim 
 Kennedy, Gerry Geletzke, Vivian Loftin, Lydia Hernandez, Aubri Jenson, Nicole 
 Goodman,  Justin Shaw, Galen Falgout, Ellie Watson, Davey Siddors, Heather 
 Tucek, David Moore, Diana Tomchick, Jason Cook, Jessica Smith, Kasey Irons, 
 Jessica Aguilar, Neil Buckman
 
 HOURS: 102 hours drive + 121 volunteer hours
 
 SUMMARY:
 Jessica, Neil and Gerry surveyed SAB 314 (Spider Web Cave) and reported that 
 a VERY small, experienced caver should return and attempt to push the lead. 
 They also visited SAB 272 (Hard Wedge Cave), SAB 797 (LIVC01 Karst Feature) 
 which could use some additional digging, and SAB 798.  They were unable to 
 locate SAB 350.
 
 Lydia, David, and Kasey’s team and Jessica, Vivian, and Nicole’s team crossed 
 the river in search of unknown features.  Together they found several 
 promising features that could use some digging and two caves were tentatively 
 named (Rack Cave) and (Minor Mishap Cave).
 
 Justin, Galen, Ellie and Diana set out to continue the dig on SAB 199 (Don’t 
 Fit Pit) and SAB 718 (Two Burnt Ropes Cave).  They were unable to locate 
 (Don’t Fit Pit). They did find and begin digging on (Two Burnt Ropes Cave), 
 only to find that the cave continues as a tiny crack that would require 
 endless digging.
 
 Will, Laura, Aubri, and Lori completed a survey of SAB 599 (Cody’s Well) and 
 explored SAB 769 (Deep Dream Cave). A subsequent trip is required to complete 
 that survey.
 
 Heather and David explored an area labeled “new karst area” and confirmed 
 that it requires a larger karst walking team. They successfully located SAB 
 338 and tentatively named it (Fred’s  Cave), but they were unable to survey 
 it as it requires additional digging. They were also able to locate and 
 describe (French Press Karst Feature) and to survey SAB 245 (Slumps Below 
 Cave).
 
 Caver Camp was full of gnats, making sitting and eating difficult.  Saturday 
 night had thunderstorms on the way.  The combination of these factors led 
 some to leave Saturday night while others embraced them and had a great night 
 watching the lightning roll in.
 
 FULL TRIP REPORTS:
 
 Team 1:
 Jessica, Neil, Gerry
 Time: 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. total hours: 18
 Data: Pouch #4
 Objectives: to survey caves and describe karst features. (SAB 314, SAB272, 
 SAB273, SAB797, SAB798, SAB350)
 Report: SAB 314 (Spiderweb Cave): survey (see pack number 4). A more 
 experienced and very small experienced caver should retry. If you head toward 
 the fence in the cave you have to travel on your side on the ground. A helmet 
 barely fits through. Ahead you can see a tiny room with a column and 
 stalactite formations. Beyond that, another tight crawl space exists. This 
 one is horizontally formed. It looks to be 10 feet long and beyond that is 
 unknown.
 SAB 272 (Hard Wedge Cave): the tight fissure entrance dropped about 12 feet 
 to the first ledge. The entire drop is about 20 feet. This cave is extremely 
 narrow. Could not see beyond.
 SAB 797 (LIVC01 karst feature): the entrance was covered in overgrown 
 shrubbery. Could not get around it or see inside.
 SAB 273 (coon scat cave): description given from 7/8/95 is correct except the 
 entrance dropped about 10 feet down.
 SAB 798 (karst feature): 4 feet deep and very narrow. No way to fit beyond.
 SAB 350 (SABK001): could not locate.
 Next tasks: send screening, experienced cavers to investigate the type 
 passage of spiderweb cave.
 
 Team 2:
 Lydia, David, Kasey
 Time 10:00 - 18:00. Total hours 24.
 Data: GPS Garman Ellie Watson 
 Objectives: Ridge walk across the east side of the river and look for karst.
 Report: we ran across the river after walking down the trail to Gorman from 
 the conference center. We hiked along the East Park boundary fence and fanned 
 out looking for karst. We finally found something at the end of the hike 3.6 
 km from our start point (048). Karst feature was blowing air, needs 
 modification (HEB). Then we swam in the river we cross and helped a scout 
 

texascavers Digest 16 Oct 2013 02:14:56 -0000 Issue 1864

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 16 Oct 2013 02:14:56 - Issue 1864

Topics (messages 22874 through 22893):

From the TCC - Mike Walsh
22874 by: Charles Goldsmith

Government Canyon Karst Project
22875 by: Marvin and Lisa

TCR firewood volunteers
22876 by: pstrickland1.austin.rr.com
22879 by: Nancy Weaver
22880 by: Geary Schindel
22884 by: Don Arburn

Re: TSA Election Results
22877 by: Jim Kennedy
22878 by: Julia Germany
22882 by: ellie watson
22885 by: Mimi Jasek
22886 by: Ann Scott
22887 by: Stefan Creaser
22890 by: caverarch

Re: 65th Birthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas Caver's Reunion next Friday
22881 by: Diana Tomchick

TSA election
22883 by: Mixon Bill

UT Grotto Meeting October 16th
22888 by: Andrea Croskrey

Greater Houston Grotto meeting tonight!
22889 by: Mallory Mayeux

European version of Satellite Imagery viewer (Google Earth)
22891 by: caverarch
22892 by: Jesse Walker

October CBSP Project Trip Report
22893 by: Kris Pena

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Once Last Note

As some of you may have heard, I have been experiencing a number of
personal problems for almost a year. I do not choose to involve the Texas
Caving Community with these problems.

 For that reason, I am making this announcement.

 I will be “going underground” and I will not send out any e-mails to
cavers concerning myself, Mike Walsh or the Texas Cave Conservancy.

Fake addresses are being used to create problems, please disregard them. I
will only communicate on the telephone at 512-249-2283. Please feel free to
give me a call. Thank you for your consideration.

Mike Walsh
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The November Government Canyon Karst Project will not be held on the first
weekend of the month as is usual. Instead the project date will be Sunday,
Nov. 10. This will be a Sunday only project. Camping is available for
Saturday and Sunday night. Contact me to arrange that, or with any other
project-related questions.
 
We meet at 9:00 at the Volunteer/Research Station. After entering the park
at the main gate, take the first right. Go through the closed gate (make
sure to close it again behind you) and proceed approximately 1 mile to the
VRS. We usually meet in the parking lot to the right.
 
Marvin Miller
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Just talked to Don Arburn. He just talked to the owner of P, Canyon, and he 
reports that there is plenty of dead cedar and oak, on the hillside above the 
road, that can be cut for TCR use. The owner would prefer that we burn his wood 
rather than bring in suspect oak. I am looking for volunteers to cut wood 
Thursday or Friday. Cutting after dark Friday or anytime Saturday makes too 
much noise. Having an open bed pickup would be helpful, as I would prefer to 
keep mine with me while I am working. It's a big job as we need wood for the 
hot tub, the sauna, the fire there, and a main campfire. I will have two saws 
available as soon as I get there on Thursday. Let me know if you can help. Pete 
512-897-9235
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
what does anyone hear about water levels?  USGS site is down of course, tho the 
House gym is fully up and functional.---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
The USGS stream gauges are up and running but they are not being calibrated. 
However, they should be pretty close unless there are issues with individual 
gauges.

We got good rains across the region ranging from 10 or more inches north 
(Austin area) and south (Crystal Springs) of San Antonio but Medina County and 
Bexar counties only received from one to 1.5 inches of rain.

Geary

 
-Original Message-
From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@prismnet.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:38 AM
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR firewood volunteers

what does anyone hear about water levels?  USGS site is down of course, tho the 
House gym is fully up and functional.
-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
They won't let any water into the lower dam area until Medina is 1/3 full. The 
riverbed is mostly dry, with a couple of ponds between the dam and the bridge 
at the ends of the park.

Sent cellularly.
-Don

 On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Geary Schindel gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org 
 wrote:
 
 The USGS stream gauges are up and running but 

texascavers Digest 13 Oct 2013 19:57:19 -0000 Issue 1863

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 13 Oct 2013 19:57:19 - Issue 1863

Topics (messages 22864 through 22873):

Aggie caving related
22864 by: David
22865 by: Mimi Jasek

Re: caver Tommy Joe
22866 by: David
22867 by: Stefan Creaser

Re: Ladder-falling 101
22868 by: Fritz Holt
22869 by: Fritz Holt

Re: 65th Birthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas Caver's Reunion next Friday
22870 by: Fritz Holt

TCMA Announcements
22871 by: Saj Zappitello
22872 by: Saj Zappitello

NCKMS not shutdown! Detailed schedule now posted
22873 by: George Veni

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
It is the opinion of several old Aggie Cavers, that the 40th Anniversary is
this semester.

I heard a rumor of some cavers talking about it.

I am not in the loop of communication in any way.

If no party is being planned, then I would propose something in the Houston
area in the spring of 2014.

In 1993 at TCR, about 15 Aggie's posed for a 20-year Reunion photo that I
have never seen.   Ernie Garza  Jay Jorden were the photographers.  That
reunion lasted about 120 seconds.

I have been told the faculty adviser has been the same guy for at least 30
years.  A former caver, Bob Lytton.   Right ?   He deserves a huge award.

David Locklear
1987 V.P. A.S.S.
( Disclaimer:  there were only 2 cavers in the A.S.S, and we were both
appointed by the outgoing 1986 president, who graduated and moved away. )
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
That is probably correct. Alicia Wisener Gale was a Temple Caver, as was I and 
my younger sister Jane, and one of my younger sister's best friends. If memory 
serves, most of the Temple Cavers headed to college in the fall of 1973, the 
majority going to UT in Austin. No way was Alicia going to be left out going to 
AM, so as far as I remember, she found an advisor and instigated the A.S.S. 
grotto that fall. She and her husband John Gale are, I believe, still listed in 
last year's NSS member list, although I do not know if they still cave. James 
Jasek and Chuck Stuehm were the major mentors for the Temple Cavers before they 
split to go their separate academic ways. As far as I know, I am the only 
member still actively caving, although Tommy Joe may still go sometimes when 
not being one of our fantastic TCR cooks:)

From the dregs of my early caving memories -

Mimi Jasek

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:07 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 It is the opinion of several old Aggie Cavers, that the 40th Anniversary is 
 this semester.
 
 I heard a rumor of some cavers talking about it.
 
 I am not in the loop of communication in any way.
 
 If no party is being planned, then I would propose something in the Houston 
 area in the spring of 2014.
 
 In 1993 at TCR, about 15 Aggie's posed for a 20-year Reunion photo that I 
 have never seen.   Ernie Garza  Jay Jorden were the photographers.  That 
 reunion lasted about 120 seconds.
 
 I have been told the faculty adviser has been the same guy for at least 30 
 years.  A former caver, Bob Lytton.   Right ?   He deserves a huge award.
 
 David Locklear 
 1987 V.P. A.S.S.
 ( Disclaimer:  there were only 2 cavers in the A.S.S, and we were both 
 appointed by the outgoing 1986 president, who graduated and moved away. )
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I bumped into Timmy Joe at a Cajun restaurant in downtown Houston about 2
years ago.

He subtly indicated to me that he had other hobbies occupying his spare
time.

My fuzzy memory recalls something about a bad back or bad knee, etc.

Feel free to correct me.

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Was fine last time i saw him.

Better get that memory of yours fixed up David!  Was it the bump on the head 
from falling of the ladder?

Cheers,
Stefan

From: David [dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: 11 October 2013 23:11
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: caver Tommy Joe

I bumped into Timmy Joe at a Cajun restaurant in downtown Houston about 2 years 
ago.

He subtly indicated to me that he had other hobbies occupying his spare time.

My fuzzy memory recalls something about a bad back or bad knee, etc.

Feel free to correct me.

David Locklear


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered 
in England  

texascavers Digest 11 Oct 2013 18:35:35 -0000 Issue 1862

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 11 Oct 2013 18:35:35 - Issue 1862

Topics (messages 22855 through 22863):

Re: Ladder-falling 101
22855 by: Ted Samsel

Re: 65th Birthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas Caver's Reunion next Friday
22856 by: c.burrell.chfbc.org
22857 by: caverarch
22858 by: Nico Escamilla
22859 by: Don Arburn
22860 by: Bill Steele
22861 by: Bill Steele
22862 by: Nico Escamilla
22863 by: Julia Germany

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Someone beat me to it.


On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Jacqueline Thomas jlrtho...@verizon.netwrote:

 Hold my beer and watch this…
 Jacq.

 On Oct 10, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Sheryl Rieck wrote:

 Glad there was no serious damage.

 Sheryl

 Sent from my iPhone.

 On Oct 10, 2013, at 8:36 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I don't know if it was jealousy or envy, but I felt the urge to join my
 ladder falling friends tonight.

 As hard as I tried, I could not get hospitalized.

 I did in style though, and would have scored a ten, had the judges been
 there.

 It is probably my imagination, but in that micro-second that I was
 airborne, my brain had time to say to itself, you got to be frickin
 kidding me.

 The moral to the story is,
 There is really a reason not to stand on that top step.

 And,

 for once I can say, my fat posterior came in handy, as it took the brunt
 of the fall.

 David Locklear



---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
All you cavers who would rather raise a toast to Bill with a glass of wine,
bring your favorite red or white to the 3rd TCR wine tasting. This will be
located near the rest of the celebration. Don't forget to bring an appetizer
or side dish to go with those yummy brats. Let's celebrate Bill's 65th
birthday Caver Style!

 

Looking forward to seeing everyone!

Christi Burrell

 

  _  

From: ellie watson [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 9:21 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] 65th Birthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas
Caver's Reunion next Friday

 

Hey Cavers!

Party time is upon us and here's another excuse to party! 

Diana Tomchick is hosting (with the assistance of Stefan Creaser) a 65th
birthday party for Bill Steele on the evening of Friday Oct. 18th, the
location will be near the cook's area for the Saturday night dinner. The
party will start around 6 PM and we'll have a couple of BBQ grills going
with bratwurst and the fixin's, plus Shiner beer (the Beer of Texas Cavers).
There will be no charge for the food and beer, but we would like to ask you
to bring a dish to share if you can. There will also be a birthday cake and
I understand there will be entertainment (Bill can fill you in on the
details about that). Please drop by and wish Bill a happy 65th birthday!

The 2013 Texas Cavers' Reunion is October 17-20, and detailed info about the
event can be found at the following web site:

http://www.cavetexas.org/events/TCR/

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Cool! As much as I love Shiner, I'm really more of a red wine drinker myself!


Roger Moore



-Original Message-
From: c.burrell c.burr...@chfbc.org
To: 'ellie watson' ellie.tho...@gmail.com; 'texascavers@texascavers.com' 
Texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 12:06 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 65th Birthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas 
Caver's Reunion next Friday



All you cavers who would rather raise atoast to Bill with a glass of wine, 
bring your favorite red or white to the 3rdTCR wine tasting. This will be 
located near the rest of the celebration. Don’tforget to bring an appetizer or 
side dish to go with those yummy brats. Let’scelebrate Bill’s 65th birthday 
Caver Style!
 
Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Christi Burrell
 



From: ellie watson[mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 20139:21 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] 65thBirthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas Caver's 
Reunionnext Friday

 

Hey Cavers!

Party time is upon us and here's another excuse to party! 

Diana Tomchick is hosting (with the assistance of Stefan Creaser) a 
65thbirthday party for Bill Steele on the evening of Friday Oct. 18th, the 
locationwill be near the cook's area for the Saturday night dinner. The party 
willstart around 6 PM and we'll have a couple of BBQ grills going with 
bratwurstand the fixin's, plus Shiner beer (the Beer of Texas Cavers). There 
will be nocharge for the food and beer, but we would like to ask you to bring a 
dish toshare if you can. There will also be a birthday cake and I understand 
therewill be 

texascavers Digest 9 Oct 2013 17:30:59 -0000 Issue 1858

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Oct 2013 17:30:59 - Issue 1858

Topics (messages 22808 through 22819):

Re: High Power LED Caving Light 🔵 LED Eye Safety
22808 by: James C. Brown
22809 by: David

Lascaux Cave exhibit
22810 by: Aimee Beveridge
22813 by: Jacqueline Thomas
22814 by: Julie Jenkins
22815 by: caverarch
22817 by: Josh Rubinstein

CBSP Project This Weekend!
22811 by: Kris Pena

NSS News
22812 by: Mimi Jasek

NSS Webinar on life in underwater caves
22816 by: Mixon Bill

TSS work session canceled for Wed Oct 9th
22818 by: Logan McNatt

Phone tips for cavers
22819 by: David

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
www.cree.com/xlamp_app_notes/led_eye_safety---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I guess the summary of that in short words, is to avoid cavers using the
high-powered
blue lights.

There are dozens of new headlamps in retail stores that have not been
mentioned on CaveTex.
I was hoping somebody else would talk about them.   At least 2 or 3 of them
appear to be
worthy of a good review.   There are some inexpensive ones by Dorcy ( found
at Sears ),
and some in the $ 60 to $ 90 range by Coast ( found at Fry's ), and I have
seen some $ 4
headlamps at the big dollar stores, like Giant and King Dollar.

On a sort-of-related note,

I found a new bungee cord at Home Depot, called Kolossal Karabiner Bungee:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/e5/e571ec76-2085-4a30-9f63-ff14401c11e8_300.jpg

It seems more rugged or stronger than a typical bungee cord.

David Locklear


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 10:21 AM, James C. Brown jcbrown@gmail.comwrote:

 www.cree.com/xlamp_app_notes/led_eye_safety

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---



Lascaux Cave painting exhibit is coming to Houston
http://www.hmns.org/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=651Itemid=683
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Aimee et. al,
If this is the same Lascaux exhibit I wandered through in Chicago's Field 
Museum in June (and in spite of the advertising differences I think it is) do 
not miss it!  I was captivated (and I was with my family). Jacqui


On Oct 7, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Aimee Beveridge wrote:

 
 
 Lascaux Cave painting exhibit is coming to Houston
 http://www.hmns.org/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=651Itemid=683

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
All, I saw the Chicago Field Museum exhibit when I was up in July, it's pretty 
amazing the way it's built, it meanders like passage and each section has a 
diarama of the section yur in. Also, the photographs r a great picture of time. 
Early diggers and cave specialists! See it to believe it!
Jules Jenkins 

On Oct 8, 2013, at 6:36 AM, Jacqueline Thomas jlrtho...@verizon.net wrote:

 Aimee et. al,
 If this is the same Lascaux exhibit I wandered through in Chicago's Field 
 Museum in June (and in spite of the advertising differences I think it is) do 
 not miss it!  I was captivated (and I was with my family). Jacqui
 
 
 On Oct 7, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Aimee Beveridge wrote:
 
 
 
 Lascaux Cave painting exhibit is coming to Houston
 http://www.hmns.org/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=651Itemid=683
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---


It is the same exhibition, I'm sure. The Houston Museum of Natural Science will 
be holding lectures and other events in conjunction with the exhibit.  The 
exhibit opening, sadly, is on TCR weekend. But GHG encourages y'all to come to 
Houston for to see a cave for a change!


Roger G. Moore
Greater Houston Grotto



-Original Message-
From: Julie Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com
To: Jacqueline Thomas jlrtho...@verizon.net
Cc: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Tue, Oct 8, 2013 8:42 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Lascaux Cave exhibit



All, I saw the Chicago Field Museum exhibit when I was up in July, it's pretty 
amazing the way it's built, it meanders like passage and each section has a 
diarama of the section yur in. Also, the photographs r a great picture of time. 
Early diggers and cave specialists! See it to believe it!
Jules Jenkins 

On Oct 8, 2013, at 6:36 AM, Jacqueline Thomas jlrtho...@verizon.net wrote:



Aimee et. al,
If this is the same Lascaux exhibit I wandered through in Chicago's Field 
Museum in June (and in spite of the advertising differences I think it is) do 
not miss it!  I was captivated (and I was with my family). Jacqui




On Oct 7, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Aimee Beveridge wrote:







Lascaux Cave painting exhibit is coming to Houston
http://www.hmns.org/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=651Itemid=683








---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

texascavers Digest 10 Oct 2013 01:45:02 -0000 Issue 1859

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 10 Oct 2013 01:45:02 - Issue 1859

Topics (messages 22820 through 22831):

Re: TSA Election Results
22820 by: Don Arburn
22821 by: Louise Power
22822 by: Stefan Creaser

Cavers on furlough
22823 by: David
22824 by: Stefan Creaser
22825 by: Don Arburn
22826 by: Bill Bentley
22827 by: James Brown
22828 by: Julia Germany
22830 by: Gill Edigar
22831 by: Logan McNatt

65th Birthday party for Bill Steele at the Texas Caver's Reunion next Friday
22829 by: Diana Tomchick

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com

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texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

To post to the list, e-mail:
texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Congratulations!!

Sent cellularly.
-Don

 On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:19 AM, ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 TSA Members, 
 
 TSA Annual Officer Elections closed October 4th and I am happy to announce 
 the following winners:
 
 Chairman- Kurt Menking
 Vice-Chairman - Roger Moore
 Secretary -Heather Tucek
 Treasurer- Anne Scott
 
 Elected officers will take office on the first day of the New Year 2014. 
 
 We had a 49% voter participation of all registered members with email 
 addresses on file.  Thank you for voting and thanks for your support of TSA!
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Does this come as a big surprise to anyone, since there was only one candidate 
for each office?

CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
From: donarb...@mac.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:40:00 -0500
To: ellie.tho...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election Results

Congratulations!!
Sent cellularly.-Don
On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:19 AM, ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:

TSA Members, 
TSA Annual Officer Elections closed October 4th and I am happy to announce the 
following winners:
Chairman- Kurt MenkingVice-Chairman - Roger MooreSecretary -Heather 
TucekTreasurer- Anne Scott
Elected officers will take office on the first day of the New Year 2014. 
We had a 49% voter participation of all registered members with email addresses 
on file.  Thank you for voting and thanks for your support of TSA!
  ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Maybe in future we should *always* have a default candidate as well as people 
nominated?  Perhaps pile of rank caving gear or cuddly toy, just so we can 
see if the proposed candidate is more popular, or not...

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 4:53 PM
To: Don Arburn; ellie.tho...@gmail.com
Cc: texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TSA Election Results

Does this come as a big surprise to anyone, since there was only one candidate 
for each office?

CC: texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com
From: donarb...@mac.commailto:donarb...@mac.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:40:00 -0500
To: ellie.tho...@gmail.commailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election Results
Congratulations!!

Sent cellularly.
-Don

On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:19 AM, 
ellie.tho...@gmail.commailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:
TSA Members,

TSA Annual Officer Elections closed October 4th and I am happy to announce the 
following winners:

Chairman- Kurt Menking
Vice-Chairman - Roger Moore
Secretary -Heather Tucek
Treasurer- Anne Scott

Elected officers will take office on the first day of the New Year 2014.

We had a 49% voter participation of all registered members with email addresses 
on file.  Thank you for voting and thanks for your support of TSA!


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium. Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered 
in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I am curious how the furlough is affecting cavers.
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I think it's affecting them by preventing some of them going to work :-P

From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 5:28 PM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Cavers on furlough


I am curious how the furlough is affecting cavers.

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use 

texascavers Digest 7 Oct 2013 15:17:58 -0000 Issue 1857

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 7 Oct 2013 15:17:58 - Issue 1857

Topics (messages 22796 through 22807):

Re: Bob Cowell
22796 by: Mimi Jasek
22797 by: James Jasek
22798 by: George Veni
22799 by: Espeleo Coahuila
22801 by: Don Cooper

a 23 year old issue of the Texas Caver
22800 by: David

Need Volunteers: TCR 30m Vertical Contest
22802 by: goody twoshoes
22805 by: Andy Edwards

underwater glacial cavern systems ?
22803 by: David

wing-suit guy checks for caves ?
22804 by: David

TSA Election Results
22806 by: ellie.thoene.gmail.com

High Power LED Caving Light 🔵 LED Eye Safety
22807 by: James Brown

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--
---BeginMessage---
Amen to all you said. For those of us lucky enough to have known Bob, he left a 
huge footprint on our lives. Although saddened by his passing, our memories of 
him will keep us laughing and living with him by our sides forever.

Great life Bob, and an even better beyond:)

Mimi Jasek

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 5, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Mike Burrell mbc...@oztotl.com wrote:

 I heard that Bob died this morning. We should all celebrate his life by going 
 caving, cooking something delicious, drinking a tasty irish beverage and 
 telling tales of adventure into the night.
 Bob was one of the most truly ethical people I have ever met!
 Always there when people (or animals) needed help.
 We should all strive to be more like Bob Cowell.
 
 Mike Burrell
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I have caved with Bob many many times in the past years, and listened to his 
fantastic stories from his life in the Air Force. All wonderful memories of a 
good friend. 

James Jasek
On Oct 5, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Mike Burrell mbc...@oztotl.com wrote:

 I heard that Bob died this morning. We should all celebrate his life by going 
 caving, cooking something delicious, drinking a tasty irish beverage and 
 telling tales of adventure into the night.
 Bob was one of the most truly ethical people I have ever met!
 Always there when people (or animals) needed help.
 We should all strive to be more like Bob Cowell.
 
 Mike Burrell
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I expect this will happen anyway, but as soon as someone learns of the funeral 
details please post them ASAP. I was coming to San Antonio this week for work 
and will head there sooner if needed to attend the services. I've known Bob for 
30 years. It wasn't long enough.

George


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

-Original Message-
From: Mike Burrell [mailto:mbc...@oztotl.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 8:27 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Bob Cowell

I heard that Bob died this morning. We should all celebrate his life by going 
caving, cooking something delicious, drinking a tasty irish beverage and 
telling tales of adventure into the night.
Bob was one of the most truly ethical people I have ever met!
Always there when people (or animals) needed help.
We should all strive to be more like Bob Cowell.

Mike Burrell

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
My condolences for the family of my friend Bod Cowell, he was a sweet
person with me all the time, and the last time I went in SA, he talk with
me for a few minutes. I'm feel sad, I will remember you. thank you for your
friendship.

Monica Ponce
Mexico


2013/10/5 Mike Burrell mbc...@oztotl.com

 I heard that Bob died this morning. We should all celebrate his life by
 going caving, cooking something delicious, drinking a tasty irish beverage
 and telling tales of adventure into the night.
 Bob was one of the most truly ethical people I have ever met!
 Always there when people (or animals) needed help.
 

texascavers Digest 5 Oct 2013 14:26:45 -0000 Issue 1856

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 5 Oct 2013 14:26:45 - Issue 1856

Topics (messages 22786 through 22795):

Quick Bacteria Video  Caves
22786 by: jack witz

artificial bat cave
22787 by: Mixon Bill
22789 by: Mark Minton

Is Mark Alman out there?  Please contact me off-list.  Thanks
22788 by: Jon Cradit

A new caving vehicle ?
22790 by: David

Re: Biology Test
22791 by: Fritz Holt

SWR Winter Tech Call for Papers
22792 by: Carol Belski

TSA Elections-Last Chance to VOTE!!
22793 by: ellie.thoene.gmail.com

Re: Baby bats
22794 by: Louise Power

Bob Cowell
22795 by: Mike Burrell

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Hi All,
 
PHDcomics.com is mostly academic humor but they do these short videos talking 
with experts in their field.  So here's one about bacteria that gets into caves 
a little.
 
Enjoy,
Z
 
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1635 ---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
There must be more to the story than that NC publicist wrote. Why  
would The Nature Conservancy spend $300,000 to make another cave for  
gray bats to die of WNS in?--Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.


You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
That story came out last year some time.  In one of the 
videos or other promotional materials they explained how the cave 
could be disinfected when bats were not in residence.  Presumably 
this prevents a sufficient level of fungus from building up to damage bats.


Mark

At 12:06 AM 10/2/2013, Mixon Bill wrote:

There must be more to the story than that NC publicist wrote. Why
would The Nature Conservancy spend $300,000 to make another cave for
gray bats to die of WNS in?--Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I'm trying to contact Mark Alman.
Mark, please contact me off-list.
Thanks
Jon Cradit

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I am at a car dealership in Houston, and they have something new from an
auto company called Oreion Motors, called, the Reeper.

I would call it a 4x4 upscale modern dune-buggy.  Has rear engine,
(liquid-cooled, with dual-overhead cam.). Advertised as a UTV, or utility
vehicle.

It is street legal, but has a top speed of 25 mph.  Comes with a tiny front
winch, tube-bumpers, tow-hooks, tow-hitch, roll-bar, etc.

The 5-speed manual transmission supposedly has a low 1st gear.

It would be a ton of fun up high in the Sierra Madres.

Has knobby trail tires.

The 3 cylinder 812 cc engine is a Chevy related product.  It has disc
brakes, front and back.

It seems to be meant for yuppies, but a caver could gerry-rig it into a
real speleo-vehicle.

It is smaller than a Suzuki Samarai, but bigger than most ATVs, and looks
like it has more off-road capability with standard factory features.

Price: $ 12,500

I think there is a turbo option, and an option for different tires.

www.buyoreion.com

David Locklear
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

A bit of nonsense but caving related as none of us would be here were it not 
for our mothers. Also tied to education for the PhD's. :) F
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: June Levy kittymr...@aol.com
 Date: July 3, 2013 11:08:17 AM CDT
 To: Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com
 Subject: Fwd: Biology Test
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 From: Gracie Terrill gracieterr...@sbcglobal.net
 Date: July 2, 2013 9:04:35 PM CDT
 To: ginny v...@austin.rr.com, jud...@flash.net, fran bruce 
 sfbru...@att.net, June kittymr...@aol.com
 Subject: Fw: Biology Test
 
  
 - Original Message -
 From: Dan Super
 To: Gracie Terrill ; Jean Savoy ; Kelly Super ; Nancy Super - Yahoo
 Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:40 AM
 Subject: FW: Biology Test
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 Students in an advanced Biology class were taking their mid-term exam. The 
 last question was, 'Name seven advantages of Mother's Milk.' The question 
 was worth 70 points or none at all.
 
 One student, in particular, was hard put to think of seven advantages 
 However, he wrote:
 
 1) It is perfect formula for the child.
 2) It provides immunity against several diseases. 
 3) It is always  the right temperature. 
 4) It is inexpensive. 
 5) It bonds the child to mother, and vice versa. 
 6) It is always  available as needed.
 And then the student was 

texascavers Digest 2 Oct 2013 01:57:20 -0000 Issue 1855

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 2 Oct 2013 01:57:20 - Issue 1855

Topics (messages 22783 through 22785):

Re: Concrete Arrows mark Transcontinental Air Mail Route
22783 by: John Greer

Re: Locations of Several Air Main Concrete Arrows
22784 by: John Greer

Article: Artificial Cave Built to Help Bats Survive WNS
22785 by: R D Milhollin

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Dwight  Ronnie -- Since my email asking essentially the same questions was 
never answered, I am glad this was posted to the list and not privately. I am 
interested in running these things down in Wyoming, so if either of you (or 
anyone else!) comes up with something new, please let me know. In the meantime, 
I'll follow Dwight's suggestions, and Ronnie, if your brother finds out 
anything, please have him contact me. 
Thanks all!
John Greer (archeologist etc)
Casper
jgr...@greerservices.com


  - Original Message - 
  From: dirt...@comcast.net 
  To: Cave Texas 
  Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:17 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Concrete Arrows mark Transcontinental Air Mail Route





  Geez, Ronnie!!!  That was 54 years ago.  I'm thinking it was south of Highway 
30.  We were all over the place, but mostly some distance north (where they 
were not) in the Red Desert.  As I recall the airport is south of the highway 
at Rock Springs, and I think one may have been west of the town but south of 
the highway, toward the Unintas  (on the flight path to Salt Lake City).  What 
airport were they flying into at Slat Lake City? There may have been another 
one between Rawlins and Rock Springs, possibly just north of Hwy 30.  But I am 
not at all sure. If there was one between Rawlins and Rock Springs, it would 
have been fairly close to the highway - either north or south. Most likely gone 
by now.  I checked with my buddy Al Zimer, and he reminded me that my memory is 
so good that it could have been somewhere NE of Laramie to the west of the 
mountains.

  There is a caver-pilot living in Saratoga who flys all along that route, so 
you might contact him.  David Worthington. dwort...@union-tel.com.  

  David is a good friend who has traveled with us to the Balkans and China, and 
helped build the addition to our squat in Terlingua. He's been down there 
(South Brewster) numerous times.  You can tell him you chopped up my best, 
brand new, and barely afforded, Illiad Paddle killing a gar on one of our Lower 
Canyons trips in my C-2. Send him the original e-mail with the images and try 
to recruit him to assist your brother.  I think he could be game.

  Have your brother talk to the County Surveyor.  That's the best bet I can 
think of.

  Let me know the results of your effort.

  Dwight


--
  From: Ronald G Fieseler mana...@blancogw.org
  To: dirt...@comcast.net
  Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:08:54 AM
  Subject: RE: Concrete Arrows mark Transcontinental Air Mail Route


  Hi Dwight,



  Do you remember if they were north of I-80 and/or the railroad?  Any other 
road names, etc. that you might recall?  Wamsutter, Table Rock, Red Desert, etc?



  I am trying to use Google Earth to locate one or more.  My brother lives in 
Rock Springs and I will also try to sic him on this search.



  Any clues or other old rusty memories will be helpful.



  Thanks!



  Fieseler



  From: dirt...@comcast.net [mailto:dirt...@comcast.net] 
  Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 10:43 PM
  To: lmcn...@austin.rr.com
  Cc: Denis Breining; Ron Fieseler; Ron Miller; Katherine McClure; Bill Elliott
  Subject: Re: Concrete Arrows mark Transcontinental Air Mail Route



  I saw two of them back in 1959 in the Red Desert when I was working on a 
seismograph crew out of Rawlins and Rock Springs, Wyo.  None of us knew what 
they were at first, but our landman figured it out.



  DirtDoc


--

  From: Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com
  To: Dwight Deal dirt...@comcast.net, Denis Breining dg...@att.net, 
Ron Fieseler mana...@blancocountygroundwater.org, Ron Miller 
rons...@yahoo.com, Katherine McClure katmccl...@me.com, Bill Elliott 
myo...@embarqmail.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:16:28 PM
  Subject: Concrete Arrows mark Transcontinental Air Mail Route

  So who among you already knew about this?
  Logan


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
This is great! Thanks for the data, and keep the new info coming if you hear of 
more. 
John
(now I have yet one more project)


  - Original Message - 
  From: Ronald G Fieseler 
  To: 'John Greer' ; 

texascavers Digest 30 Sep 2013 04:18:19 -0000 Issue 1853

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 30 Sep 2013 04:18:19 - Issue 1853

Topics (messages 22762 through 22764):

Alex Sproul
22762 by: Charles Goldsmith
22763 by: Charles Goldsmith

Re: The Most Important Image Captured By Hubble
22764 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---


Sent via C=64 Mobile

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net
 Date: September 27, 2013 at 9:43:29 PM CDT
 To: Charles Goldsmith ad...@caves.org
 Subject: 
 Reply-To: Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net
 
 Hi, I am Alex's wife.  Trying to let people know that Alex will be 
 unavailable for some time.  He fell on Wednesday, breaking his femur at the 
 hip, and his wrist.  Had surgery last night,  will be in hospital a few more 
 days, then extensive re-hab. He is not going to be much help to anybody for a 
 while.  Can you pass this on to whoever you think might need to know?  We 
 expect a full recovery, but it will be a long process.  Thanks,  Dru Sproul
 --
 Alex Sproul
 NSS 8086RL/FE
 NSS Webmaster
 www.caves.org
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Gentlemen, if you need me to temporarily redirect his webmaster address to 
someone else, we can. 

Also, we will do what we can to keep things going while he is out. 

Sent via C=64 Mobile

 On Sep 27, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 
 
 
 Sent via C=64 Mobile
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 From: Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net
 Date: September 27, 2013 at 9:43:29 PM CDT
 To: Charles Goldsmith ad...@caves.org
 Subject: 
 Reply-To: Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net
 
 Hi, I am Alex's wife.  Trying to let people know that Alex will be 
 unavailable for some time.  He fell on Wednesday, breaking his femur at the 
 hip, and his wrist.  Had surgery last night,  will be in hospital a few more 
 days, then extensive re-hab. He is not going to be much help to anybody for 
 a while.  Can you pass this on to whoever you think might need to know?  We 
 expect a full recovery, but it will be a long process.  Thanks,  Dru Sproul
 --
 Alex Sproul
 NSS 8086RL/FE
 NSS Webmaster
 www.caves.org
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
FYI.

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: June Levy kittymr...@aol.com
 Date: September 29, 2013 8:43:38 PM CDT
 To: Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com
 Subject: The Most Important Image Captured By Hubble
 
 http://all-that-is-interesting.com/important-image-captured-by-hubble#CiQkXBUpMUxp8oZ4.01
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
---End Message---

texascavers Digest 28 Sep 2013 00:34:29 -0000 Issue 1852

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 28 Sep 2013 00:34:29 - Issue 1852

Topics (messages 22753 through 22761):

salamander paper
22753 by: Mixon Bill
22756 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
22757 by: Mark Minton
22758 by: Fofo

Caves of Missouri
22754 by: Mixon Bill

NSS Hdqtrs Volunteer Work Schedule for Oct., Nov. and Dec. at Huntsville, AL
22755 by: Preston Forsythe

New tour at Carlsbad Caverns
22759 by: George Veni

photos of Naica Cave of the Crystals
22760 by: Mixon Bill

National Cave and Karst Management Symposium: new deadline!
22761 by: George Veni

Administrivia:

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texascavers@texascavers.com


--
---BeginMessage---
Thanks, Andy, to the link for the salamander paper. A direct route to  
the most readable version is http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2148-13-201.pdf 
. Use this and you won't have to ferret it out on the publisher's web  
site. I'm happy that the paper is open access, and also the unusual  
feature at the end where the contributions of the various alleged  
authors are briefly declared. That gives at least a chance of deciding  
who really were authors and who should just have been in the  
acknowledgements, in my view. (If I were editing a journal, I'd insist  
that authors show me what part, not less than one third, of the  
paper they actually wrote. It would be a very thin journal.) -- Mixon


A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is  
absolutely fatal.



You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Thanks, Bill.  All authors contributed at least 1/3!

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:29 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:

 Thanks, Andy, to the link for the salamander paper. A direct route to the 
 most readable version is 
 http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2148-13-201.pdf. Use this and 
 you won't have to ferret it out on the publisher's web site. I'm happy that 
 the paper is open access, and also the unusual feature at the end where the 
 contributions of the various alleged authors are briefly declared. That gives 
 at least a chance of deciding who really were authors and who should just 
 have been in the acknowledgements, in my view. (If I were editing a journal, 
 I'd insist that authors show me what part, not less than one third, of the 
 paper they actually wrote. It would be a very thin journal.) -- Mixon
 
 A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely 
 fatal.
 
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
 
 
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---

An interesting conundrum, since there were 5 authors on the paper!

Mark

At 07:15 PM 9/25/2013, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:

Thanks, Bill.  All authors contributed at least 1/3!

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:29 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:

 Thanks, Andy, to the link for the salamander paper. A direct 
route to the most readable version is 
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2148-13-201.pdf. Use 
this and you won't have to ferret it out on the publisher's web 
site. I'm happy that the paper is open access, and also the unusual 
feature at the end where the contributions of the various alleged 
authors are briefly declared. That gives at least a chance of 
deciding who really were authors and who should just have been in 
the acknowledgements, in my view. (If I were editing a journal, I'd 
insist that authors show me what part, not less than one third, 
of the paper they actually wrote. It would be a very thin journal.) -- Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
That's how they roll! They always put more than 100%

- Fofo 

On 25/09/2013, at 17:59, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:

An interesting conundrum, since there were 5 authors on the paper!
 
 Mark
 
 At 07:15 PM 9/25/2013, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:
 Thanks, Bill.  All authors contributed at least