So minor changes:
1. Single file is the first option now among flavours
2. TiddlyDesktop is the first option among savers
3. Tiddlyserver is specially mentioned in Installing Nod.JS Tiddler. I guess
people who look for node will be the ones most interested to try out
Tiddlyserver.
--
You
Top bar would be a good location.
Sincerely,
Riz
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020, 08:51 TW Tones, wrote:
> Riz,
>
> I just realised one of my main workflow steps it I open tiddlywiki.com
> (usualy pinned in a tab) and I hit download empty. Whilst I download it, in
> chrome I don't care where, I just save
Riz,
I just realised one of my main workflow steps it I open tiddlywiki.com
(usualy pinned in a tab) and I hit download empty. Whilst I download it, in
chrome I don't care where, I just save it in a scratch folder and open it
from the browser tray.
I can then search, hack, import and test.
A lot of people end up at the "alternative-to" web site. I notice that they
don't have TiddlyWiki listed as an alternative to Treepad. Or, if they do,
it must be more than the 3 pages that I paginated. If someone doesn't beat
me to it, I might set up a suggestion. It means setting up another
Mark S, TW Tones,
It *is* rather funny. To use Treepad Business I have had to run it through
WINE for years now. I was setting up some laptops, looked for update to
Treepad, downloaded and all was fine. Then I thought I had forgotten some
of the extras and decided to look for them the next
Mark, Bithe Me and more?
I too was a big user of treepad including TreePad Business. I always kept
abreast of updates, It is sad to hear.
It was almost certainly why I looked for and found TiddlyWiki, because I
wanted a higher level of customisation and automation than treepad (which
was
Beaker Browser is showing up as the first choice for "desktop" ? I guess
the list is alphabetical. I've tried beaker and it was confusing and
painful to set up. It would be a poor first choice for most people IMO.
Likewise Noteself is showing up first for cloud synchronization. I don't
know if
I have a lot of stuff still in treepad (Business). I didn't get the notice
that they were shutting down. Now the site has been taken over by a
marijuana dispensary. Sad.
The problem with treepad that I realized right away was that it had no
community support. Apparently the developer had had
Riz,
I think you have done a very good job, well presented!
I agree that options should not be hidden away, they doesn't need to with
your gradual presenting.
I never searched to find tiddlywiki. At that time many years ago, I used
what was perfect for my note taking. Treepad Business. It
Default saver is prominently explained in the wizard intro. Will that do?
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 16:40 PMario, wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 8:00:52 AM UTC+2, Riz wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ok. So single HTML file goes first.
>>
>> Is download saver the main option intended for promotion? I know
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 9:13:56 AM UTC+2, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> I do suggest TiddlyDesktop (TD) be highlighted in some way. There are
> simply too many options to choose from for a new user.
> For a user choosing single file, I would go so far as to say that there
> should be only two
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 8:00:52 AM UTC+2, Riz wrote:
>
>
> Ok. So single HTML file goes first.
>
> Is download saver the main option intended for promotion? I know it is
> universal, but most users would definitely want a better method. From what
> I understand from usual responses
>
I found tiddlywiki searching for the following keywords:
"Open source cross platform alternatives to zim"
But that was years ago.
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 16:30 Birthe C, wrote:
> How many find Tiddlywiki by Google search, and what are the search
> word/words?
> I have always thought people had
How many find Tiddlywiki by Google search, and what are the search
word/words?
I have always thought people had read a positive article, a blog or
something. Had been evangelised irl or otherwise.
The many discussion concerning Roam Research I would imagine got many to
look for alternatives,
I understand your point. The discussion essentially whittles down to:
Should the single HTML file option be left chosen by default?
I myself won't be doing it. I believe it is wrong to make people's choices
for them based on untested assumptions, rather one should strive to make
their choices
Riz,
The following is my view point simply in the spirit of sharing perspectives.
The key to me, is providing an easy path for the new user to identify if
tiddlywiki is for them. For someone wanting to store tiddlers in separate
files ie a specific requirement, they must first have established
I do suggest TiddlyDesktop (TD) be highlighted in some way. There are
simply too many options to choose from for a new user.
For a user choosing single file, I would go so far as to say that there
should be only two options presented. One for local usage (TD), one for
online, with everything
Hi Tony,
The download option only makes sense if the user chooses single HTML file
version, right? May be users - especially those coming from markdown based
note taking applications - might want to keep their notes in separate plain
text files.
Giving the download button and then explaining the
Ok. So single HTML file goes first.
Is download saver the main option intended for promotion? I know it is
universal, but most users would definitely want a better method. From what
I understand from usual responses - TiddlyDesktop is the one new users
usually flock to. Hence it is kept at top.
Riz,
Totally agree, I suppose I need to take the next step for playground and
standard editions despite it being raised an number of times.
However If there is no download without selecting an option, how will it
look to a new user?. To me it is a big thing to hide something so essential
that
Hi,
I think, file based options should be first. node.js is definitely more
complex.
And the browser default saver should be first too. Every user should know
how it works, because it always works!
-mario
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> Single file HTML button should be at the top
Noted. Will change. I am not up for keeping it open. The wizard is in place
specifically for those people who need help. People should make informed
decisions. Might be worthwhile to add download button to wizard intro
though. I would take
Riz,
Thanks for your work here
Some Quick points
- Single file HTML button should be at the top, and possibly open to
start with. This is where new users will be, lets not force a choice when
they still do not know how to answer.
- Personally I think at least download empty should
Hi,
So I have uploaded the current draft of changes here:
https://ibnishak.github.io/TiddlyWiki5/
Apart from changed suggested by Eric, the text is practically same. Some other
major changes
1. The filters in Saver methods are done away with. As pointed out above, most
options appear
Folks,
Perhaps we need to also apply some global Operating and browser statistics,
perhaps Windows + Chrome is far more common occurrence than others.
Personally if I were a new tiddlywiki user I would love to of had a
playground where I can test editions and plugins, learned about and
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 11:51:04 AM UTC-7, Riz wrote:
>
> 2. Tiddlywiki has an inbuilt saving mechanism. It works by creating a
> modified copy of your tiddlywiki file every time you make changes. This
> requires no internet connection or additional software installation. Your
> browser
Jeremy,
Yes, my thought was the question do you want to access your wiki on
different devices?
The trouble is most people would answer yes, even before they discover they
love tiddlywiki. Which means we send them down the complexity path right
away.
Here I provide a carefully thoughtout path
Hi Riz
> The major question at this point is what is the algorithm for the "Help me
> choose it" option.
>
> I got only two steps till now
>
> Do you need cloud synchronization?
> - Yes :
> - Which of the following cloud services would you prefer? GitHub, Gitlab,
> Dropbox, Google Drive
On a side note, any local file saving solution can become a cloud solution
using SyncThing. A common theme that comes up is that people want a
solution that doesn't involve putting data on the servers of 3rd parties
like Google, Microsoft, or even Github. I guess it would fit best as a
"cloud
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 7:43:04 AM UTC-7, Riz wrote:
>
> How would you word the question?
>
>
>
That depends on what the intent of the 2nd question was. Why would anyone
arbitrarily want an app ? The only reason I can think that anyone would
choose the Download saver (except for Eric)
I started this discussion, which I think would be helpful to figure out who
is TW's audience (current and potential).
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/X3op3S7apYk
That could then inform the UX for newcomers
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 12:01:46 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
Are you saying that the download saver is convenient?
Let's take a step back. Why would anyone want to use an app if there is
already a convenient method?
If the download saver is convenient, then you only need to choose between a
cloud-based solution and the download saver. Why would someone
My 5 pence worth
'Tiddly wiki is a fully contained application contained in a web page.
As such it works out of the box in any browser, but that means that saving
downloads another copy of the wiki. See here for some help making that a
little more painless-->Pick a browser> Info on how
Mark S,
The question is about a dedicated app. That is not necessary for saving to
be convenient.
Birthe
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 4:16:35 PM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I don't quite understand the question
>
> "Do you need a dedicated app for saving tiddlywiki?"
>
> Why would anyone say
How would you word the question?
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 19:46 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki, <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> I don't quite understand the question
>
> "Do you need a dedicated app for saving tiddlywiki?"
>
> Why would anyone say "yes" ? It's more like, "Do you need saving to be
I don't quite understand the question
"Do you need a dedicated app for saving tiddlywiki?"
Why would anyone say "yes" ? It's more like, "Do you need saving to be
convenient" ?
I think the "Getting Started" section needs at least a sentence to explain
that TW doesn't have a save mechanism
The major question at this point is what is the algorithm for the "Help me
choose it" option.
I got only two steps till now
Do you need cloud synchronization?
- Yes :
- Which of the following cloud services would you prefer? GitHub, Gitlab,
Dropbox, Google Drive
- No: Go to next question
Riz & Jeremy
I did not comment before because I needed to see where this was going to
make a decent comment.
I think Riz is right, boiling it down to "*KNOWN workable for my platform*".
The biggest single issue my users have is the old approach is TOO rich. Too
many options. Gets confusing!
I also think the first glance should only show some simple options to
newbies, maybe not more than three, and a link or button may take other
users to "More saving options".
I find this appreance, as overwelming and scareing as the present one.
An option for each Android, iOS, Unix and Windows
There is a parallel Reddit discussion giving more insight to new users take
on the matter here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/h9788l/requesting_inputs_for_improvements_to/
Sincerely,
Riz
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020, 04:24 TW Tones, wrote:
> Riz,
>
> I agree with the store.php I gave
Riz,
I agree with the store.php I gave up getting reliable results. but its
successor is tw-receiver and it cant be found on tiddlywiki.com easily if
at all.
https://github.com/sendwheel/tw-receiver
Regards
Tony
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 10:22:14 PM UTC+10, Riz wrote:
>
> That is a good
The alternative is tw-receiver. But that author hasn't submitted it to the
gallery of savers either. I tried to submit a saver tiddler for
tw-receiver, but it seems to have not made it into this collection.
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On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 3:44:11 PM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> Hi, I was talking about the authors of the original method, if eg: AddOns
>> or apps are involved. IMO only the authors can decide, how they intended
>> the functions to be used. ... They need to support it.
>>
>
> So we
>
>
> To add to the GettingStarted change: I think the status of checkboxes
> should be saved in $:/state tiddler instead of $:/temp, because now
> changing options changes the dirty flag.
>
Noted. Will change in the next commit.
Sincerely,
Riz
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OGNSYA,
> I agree that a Wizard could be helpful, since many new users struggle with
> the whole concept of what TW is.
>
Although the answer would be a completely different thread, but I think we
could give them a very brief summary that is tangible of what they know:
*Treat the single
> Hi, I was talking about the authors of the original method, if eg: AddOns
> or apps are involved. IMO only the authors can decide, how they intended
> the functions to be used. ... They need to support it.
>
So we should remove PHP (store.php), since the author is not supporting it
and
All in all, delete beaker browser for now and add it later when things are
more stable?
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 18:29 PMario, wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 2:22:14 PM UTC+2, Riz wrote:
>
> Also I have questions regarding DAT protocol. Does TW support headless dat
>> server or just beaker
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 2:22:14 PM UTC+2, Riz wrote:
Also I have questions regarding DAT protocol. Does TW support headless dat
> server or just beaker browser?
>
At the moment it's Beaker-browser only!
I personally do see a lot of potential in the peer to peer DAT-protocol ...
Which is
That is a good point.
Things like server protocols require some more focus. For example WebDAV.
There ought be a more detailed steps regarding installation and usage of
specific WebDAV servers.
Some WebDAV solutions are obviously platform specific. For example, there
are WebDAV android apps. In
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:00:55 PM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Are you talking about authors of the documentation, or of the original
> method? Not all of the methods have associated authors.
>
Hi, I was talking about the authors of the original method, if eg: AddOns
or apps are involved.
Added link to previous post
https://anthonymuscio.github.io/playground.html
Tony
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 2:57:06 PM UTC+10, TW Tones wrote:
>
> I want to second Eric argument about keeping the download saver as
> prominent. With 'browser to "Always ask for location" when downloading'.
>
>
I want to second Eric argument about keeping the download saver as
prominent. With 'browser to "Always ask for location" when downloading'.
I do wonder if this should be in an 'are you "new to tiddlywiki" section`.
Too much choice is likely to scare less technical users, although the
number of
Are you talking about authors of the documentation, or of the original
method? Not all of the methods have associated authors.
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:27:15 AM UTC-7, PMario wrote:
>
>
>
> I wanted to point out, that every maintainer of a plugin or app, needs to
> review the tags for
Ah I see your point, Riz.
There is a new version now, where the author (and the second link) is
beneath the card to maintain your concept of the whole card is one link.
Another reason why I would prefer this over the existing design is that I
think the author name does not provide much
Hi Riz
This is why I unliked the author part so that there can be a second
(different) link that takes users directly to the solution website offered
by the author.
(I just made an update to also cover the case where there is an author but
not a URL.)
Am Sonntag, 14. Juni 2020 21:32:44 UTC+2
Hi Thomas,
The entire card is a link. So a link within a link would not a great UI choice.
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Hi Thomas,
The entire card is a link. So a link within a link would not a great UI
choice.
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 00:51 Thomas Elmiger, wrote:
> Hi Riz and Jeremy,
>
> First: Thank you both for improving this important entry point! I think it
> is a big step forward.
>
> Riz:
>
>> I have only
Hi Riz and Jeremy,
First: Thank you both for improving this important entry point! I think it
is a big step forward.
Riz:
> I have only made visual changes, nothing else. If choosing a set of
> options does not show a saver, it is because it needs more tags.
>
The changes are good, people
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 7:30:59 PM UTC+2, Riz wrote:
> I have only made visual changes, nothing else. If choosing a set of
> options does not show a saver, it is because it needs more tags.
>
Hi Riz, ... It wasn't meant to critic your work, which is great.
I wanted to point out, that
Hi,
I have only made visual changes, nothing else. If choosing a set of options
does not show a saver, it is because it needs more tags.
Colors correspond to delivery methods. This is not obvious right now. However
the next step is to reclassification of savers to broad categories and listing
+1
PMario:
>
> IMO the selection titles should have the same colour coding than the
> "cards" on the right side, if that's possible.
>
> If not, there should be a legend, that describes the color codes.
>
Maybe both? I too missed an explanation for the colours.
Also the tags of the browser
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 2:13:26 PM UTC+2, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to see the default "download saver" included in this list.
>
> I'd also strongly suggest rewriting it to remove the negative judgemental
> description, which currently starts with:
>
> "This method of saving changes
I'd like to see the default "download saver" included in this list.
I'd also strongly suggest rewriting it to remove the negative judgemental
description, which currently starts with:
"This method of saving changes is clunky ..."
While many people find it less than satisfying, it is, after
hi,
IMO the selection titles should have the same colour coding than the
"cards" on the right side, if that's possible.
If not, there should be a legend, that describes the color codes.
-mario
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Hi,
Looks nice. ... BUT imo all the elements have to be checked, if they appear
in the right "sets", depending on the filters. ... eg: A firefox AddOn will
work with FireFox independent which OS is selected.
So is there a list of all the tags that an element has to have and how do
the
Looks great!
I agree that a Wizard could be helpful, since many new users struggle with
the whole concept of what TW is.
Regardless, I think the categories on the left should better reflect the
variety of options. I use TiddlyDesktop, for example - shouldn't this be in
a "Desktop" category?
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